Bitcoin Forum

Humanity has been waiting for a place to save his earnings and be able transfer it between generations without loosing it’s value. We already had gold, but it’s been difficult to hide it from thiefs, both the goverment as other kind of thiefs.

Now we have the opportunity to change it. Now we have the opportunity to conserve wealth without giving any explanation to anyone.

The only way to do this is by all agreeing that BTC is Gold 2.0

We dont need a new technology to pay the coffee.

We’ve gone throught times when the goverment decided to confiscate every single grame of gold of the citizens. We're going throught times where printing new money is devaluating our savings. This wont happen again if we all work together making Bitcoin better.

If we do not agree on which coin is the Gold 2.0, a new “war” for being it will start and this will not  let the humanity move to the Golden 2.0 Era.

Bitcoin is Gold 2.0

Let’s all work together

You are absolutely right. Bitcoin is Gold 2.0 so tell me why people fail to realize that and are trying everything to destroy this invention?
If we would focus on one goal, unite every cryptocurrency enthusiasts under one roof, bitcoin would be number 1 world's currency by now.

Why do most of the people in this forum, even the Legendary ones think Bitcoin is synonymous to gold? Whenever Bitcoin is mentioned the first thing that comes in their minds are "wealth" and "earnings". Let those people out of here and bring back what it is all about. A censorship resistant, decentralized currency. Do you know what that means OP?

I agree, But it is still early for the human kind to accept it, needs a lot more advertising from everywhere, right now it is in a very closed environment, bitcoin needs worldwide tv commercials like coca cola, easy explanations, easy apps for smartphones..

Bitcoin sho is lightweight,  I give it that.  But it don't have no advantage ova tha gold thieves.  Hail, you got the damn exchanges runnin' away wit people's dough!  This ain't no binary dilemma we got here.  Gol' can exist side by side wit bitcoin, jist like we coext wit the squirrels up inna treetops.  Its a big ol' world an' they's lotsa room in it fo' evverthang.

So according to you decentralized, censorship resistant, peerless network and currency system called Bitcoin, can't be compared to gold at all?
It may not be the most accurate representation what bitcoin really is but it is still good and solid parallel, especially for not bitcoin users.

Bitcoin can be considered as gold 2.0, already its been discussed several times. When something is mentioned as a digital asset we can give similar preference to it as a commodity. Several countries have imposed taxes upon bitcoin, so sure it is gold 2.0, with its potential the version 2.0 might get change to 1.0

Bitcoin wont be the world's number currency until it's ready to be used by the whole population. Lacks development and it will take time.
But we all need to work together in this direction. No internal fights




You forget to mention that is the first digital scarce good created by humanity.
That makes it very similar to gold in terms of scarcity. Therefore as a store of value.



You're absolutely right



it will coexist with gold, atleast for some generations

I cannot disagree with that concept that bitcoin truly is like gold. Saying its like gold 2.0 or a replacement for gold is a nice comparison. Like gold bitcoin will be in demand. During my research bitcoin is already accepted everywhere from restaurant. to hotels , to taxi and even buying cars. Bitcoin will have a bright future ahead of us.

Banks understand very well what bitcoin is about and that is why you see big efforts so they can destroy it, using governments of the world and the media to try to scare people away from bitcoin.

When most humans realise Bitcoin it will cost $1mln

Bitcoin is really an answer for people who wants to do transaction without being known by other people, and the plus side of bitcoin is the price is keep on rising and it become a good investment tool, but unfortunately bitcoin amount is not enough to be used by whole people in this planet but we still have  alt coins, so the crypto currencies future is still very potential to grow

Bitcoin cannot be compared with gold. Gold is a precious metal. It can be used for many purpose. Bitcoin is also expensive. It can be considered as a saving if you are ready to take risk. We dont know the future of bitcoin. Because its price is volatile. Who knows if its price will crash tomorrow.Whatever we tell about bitcoin, its right, but after all its a man made software token. Nothing else. If someone hack any top bitcoin exchange or any firm ,thats it. Its price will crash. Imagine If its price crashs and becomes fews cents then there wont be any use with this bitcoin.

Bitcoin and gold really looks alike. I can say that the portability is the biggest advantage of gold. You can move a large amount of wealth, which consists in relatively small amount of gold. And gold is easy to store, and relatively easy to hide. Bitcoin has the same properties. So it's really possible to call bitcoin as Gold 2.0.

The price of gold might crash too. Let's think about it. There are 165,000 metric tons of gold on Earth and there are approximately 7 Billion people. That means every person on planet earth could own about 5 rings of pure gold. I don't need 5 golden rings, actually I don't need even one. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of gold on Earth, more than people really need, and that the price of it is highly exaggerated.

Yes, Bitcoin and gold share few properties such as both are great investment ventures, but it's not right to say bitcoin as Gold 2.0 as unlike gold bitcoin is very very volatile and even if the probability is low bitcoin can become totally worthless tomorrow(Not that I want it to happen). In today's market investing in gold is very safe, there is now way gold will become worthless I think we all can agree to that, now investing in bitcoin involves some risk. So one is safe and other has some risk so how can they be the same?

There is no doubt, this is a wonderful gift to humanity, I just believe BTC is the answer until we know the stance of government on it, because of so many uncertainties surrounding it, the recent PBOC interference proves how weak BTC is, the scaling issue is there also that has partly divided the community into two.

I disagree with the OP. Bitcoin has a key difference with gold: its "intrinsic value" depends totally on the network of users and not on a form of "physical" scarcity like with gold.

Many say that Bitcoin is "scarce" because the number of "coins" is limited to 21 million. But Bitcoin software is replicable. We already see that there are many alt-chains emerging using Bitcoin clones or very similar software applications.

So one could say there is no real scarcity. However, that's also not true. The key fact is that the value of Bitcoin is exclusively related to the network of its users. One indicator is the sheer number of users. But even more important is the composition of the user base. There must be users that accept it for goods and services that really are solving needs of other users. That's Bitcoin's real scarcity: The network of users that already exist is very difficult to build up for a clone.

One can say that Bitcoin is used almost exclusively as a speculation tool and that's not important that goods or services are offered. But that's simply not true because you can do speculation the same way with all the other altcoins around there.

The key fact that makes Bitcoin more expensive/valuable than other similar "coins" is the possibility that it could be used some day as a worldwide general purpose payment system. That's the "to da moon myth", and that's why a Bitcoin today costs $1000 and not $3 like a LTC.

For this myth to work, the network of users and good or service providers must be constantly growing. So "real-word" goods and services - although not used very extensively in the community - play an important role for Bitcoin's value.

Bitcoin can be compared to gold.

In times of severe social distress, war/tyrannical government, persecuted minority etc. Either Bitcoin can be used can to temporarily store and transport/store wealth that could otherwise be destroyed if left in situ (ie. In local property and other entities that rely on local laws to maintain their value).

Albeit, not a function that most people ever want to have to use.

Great post OP, it would alleviate a lot of future issues if everyone could come to the same agreement as you mentioned in the war portion. It will take time but I can definitely see BTC becoming something pretty similar to what you're describing. As more and more people catch on to what bitcoin actually is and the potential is has you can see actual worth steadily increasing. I don't foresee this stopping at all and I believe it will eventually transition / evolve into what you're describing OP.

Bitcoin is even better than gold since it is more secure, it is digital and you can use it as a type of currency. And moreover, no one can control it even if the bank decides to accept Bitcoin. The more you use it, the more advantage it can bring to you.
However, I would like to change the title a little bit: Cryptos are gold 2.0 since there are more potential cryptos have been created which are even more effective than Bitcoin

No. Because comparing it to gold is very limiting. What inefficiencies can gold come in to and make them efficient? In fact gold itself is very inefficient to use. So why compare it with gold?

But if you do not have a clue what Bitcoin is then be my guest. Call it gold 2.0 if you want.



Read the comment above.

Yes, the readily able to send and receive around the world in fractions of seconds is the biggest advantage of gold 2.0 which cannot be never possible with gold 1.0 ever.

Gold has lost its usage of being a "currency" due to this factor whereas bitcoin is coming with all the properties of gold+easy transfer facility. It means bitcoin is a "bug fixed version" of traditional gold, the humanity waiting for daily need.

the technology behind bitcoin can also be used for multiple purpose, so this whole thing about gold being more important because it can be used on the real industry it's not a point so important anymore in favor of gold

you can use the blockchain to build a great amount of stuff on it, it can make life easier for many developers

I think you are right. Gold was the most used store of wealth, but it was lacking the ability to be transfered easily. It could also be robbed. So Bitcoin is a very great innovation because it solves those two problems, but another one is created : you can loose your bitcoins by yourself ! Given the number of people that sent bitcoins to a wrong address, this is the proof that this is not just idiots that send their bitcoins to the wrong address. The developpers should maybe focus on this rather than on other useless things.

The thing that are similar within gold and btc is the value itself

Exept that gold is back by a physical bulk and btc is virtual

Anyhow, value of bitcoin seems more stable xd

Bitcoin is volatile because while the gold is adopted by the 100% of the potential investors/users,
bitcoin is still unknown for 99% of the world population

If the price crashes to cents, atleast 20% of the current users will go mad for cheap coins  ;)







Portability is not the biggest advantage of gold. Is storing value over time.
You can buy the same things you could 100 years ago. (well, excepting the new tech  :D)
https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/koos-jansen/how-constant-is-golds-purchasing-power/

You have the same purchasing power, which doesnt happen with other currencies
https://azizonomics.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20120103_jpm_reserve.png






They're not the same, because I've explained, one is already adopted and the other is still to be adopted.
In fact, the reason why btc is so interesting investment is because still to be adopted by the 99%

Gold has value because of their users, the same as btc.
For gold is easier because it has been used by previous generations.

Bitcoin is scarce.
Gold is scarce.
You can paint whatever stone you want. It wont be gold.

Limited offer (21M BTC) and demand is just 1% of world population.
Bitcoin is yet to be adopted by 99%.
Who's gonna sell now when we all know that is still to be adopted by 99%.
Therefore, imagine what's gonna happpen with the price.
You understand now, why most of the people are hoarding?

The difference with LTC is the user base. + Network effect.

Bitcoin never grows constantly. The growth is usually focused in a little space time and then stagnation until is ready for the next adoption phase

Yes, real-world good and services and user-friendly apps are very important to move to the user adoption.
Anyway, we are not still in user adoption, we're moving to wallst adoption.

https://smartanythingeverywhere.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/sae_diagram_0.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GmbhtdDuqro/Vo_VzbHfQkI/AAAAAAAAEfE/znPIgWAh6rg/s1600/logistic%2Bimage.001.jpeg
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/chapter11developingandmanagingproducts-140503184348-phpapp01/95/chapter-11-developing-and-managing-products-2014-36-638.jpg?cb=1399142703
http://omergertel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/adoption.jpg







Hope noone has to use because goverment tyrani (vzla) or  because of war, but yes, you're right, transportability (you just have to remember 12 words) is a great property of btc.

What kind of "stuff" are you talking about? How can the blockchain make life easier for many developers? With what we are seeing right now it is making life harder for developers because they have to solve a new set of problems. One thing that made it easy for developers is getting funded by hyping the blockchain. All these blockchain pumpers will keep doing it as long as they can trick people into giving them money for "research and development". Which reminds me. What happened to the biggest VC funded Bitcoin startup, 21 Inc.?

Thanks!









Nope
That's in fact the point of this thread
Cryptos are economy 2.0
Bitcoin is gold 2.0
Dont mix them...








Gold may not be perfect but is scarce and stores the purchase power (value)
Bitcoin is better, that's why is Gold 2.0

Nope.
That's what I'm trying to explain.
We dont need gold 2.0 to pay the coffee.
The main purpose of gold 2.0 is being able to save your money in case of war/goverment tyrani/etc.
Paying a coffee with gold will not change the future of humanity









sorry, but i'm gonna say it clearly. Fuck making life easier for many developers.
Noone has never forbiden anything to any dev.
(maybe there a few cases, like cryptography, but anyway)

The main purpose of gold 2.0 is being able to save your money in case of war/goverment tyrani/etc.

The more things we build over btc blockchain, more value will have, but again, that's not the main purpose of Bitcoin.
We dont need gold 2.0 to pay the coffee.






Thanks.
You're right.
That's why I say that btc is still not prepared to be adopted by non-tech people.
We need to focus on userfriendly usability/apps

The main purpose of gold 2.0 is being able to save your money in case of war/goverment tyrani/etc.
+ storing value over time (decades/centuries)

Yes, Bitcoin is Gold 2.0. We have no need to fear whether government will conduct raid and seize our holdings as we fear in gold.Unlike paper currency, Bitcoin is finite and so it is a precious asset.And it has the potential of giving more returns than gold.Even though it has just crossed its initial stage, still it is worth mentioning it as Gold 2.0.One more additional benefit than gold.Unlike gold, Gold 2.0 can be transacted easily to any part of the world.

i think both Gold and Bitcoin has their importance. Gold has a stable value for a long time we can observe a very little change in its value, we can see that most of the people save their assets in gold for long long time. while bitcoin is new emerging currency, people specially from modern countries are adopting bitcoin specially for online purposes. most of the people invest their money here for making more money, the price of bitcoin is not stable, there  is always a big fluctuation in the price of bitcoin and that is the reason that most of the invest hold their bitcoins for the price increase.

It's more of an improved Gold, but with only one disadvantage: it depends on electricity and/or internet connection. Otherwise I love it and I think it really is the greatest innovation I had ever seen. The most important features are the portability because you can carry billions with you on a small piece of paper or on a phone app, and the anonymity which is useful in many scenarios!

It may be but that is actually not that positive thing to hear.

We all expect BTC to be the global currency that will become the global reserve currency.

But this wont be the case. Because if BTC is gold 2.0, then it will be used like gold, which means that only a small percent of the population will use it.

Do you see any vendors, merchants or supermarkets accepting gold? I dont see any.

So the same way, bitcoin wont be accepted either. I have only  1-2 services in my town that has BTC. It's pretty bad.

BItcoin might have value, but if people wont use it on widescale, then I think satoshi will be disappointed.

It was supposed to be a global payment network, not a global wealth storage commodity!

It is because they have a lot in common. Like there is limited supply for both of them. You can't print neither of them. If you want them you either buy them or mine them. (mining applies to both)

And there are the differences...

You can't move from border to border with huge gold bars but you can success it with a piece of paper or flash drive.

Bitcoin is definitely pocket size gold.

A lot can still go wrong with this experiment, so I would not pump a lot of my life savings into Bitcoin to protect my wealth.  ::) As with

other commodities, Bitcoin can also be manipulated.... it is much better than Fiat currencies, but it is still very volatile. Your wealth are

in the hands of a few developers and the consensus behind their decisions. {miners and individuals running nodes}  ::)

This seems like a reasonable way to look at Bitcoin and gold.

Gold has a long history as the world's premier Store of Value.  Gold is pretty easy to understand.  Bitcoin has not been around very long, and as we have seen, there are a variety of issues & problems not being resolved quickly.  It is too early to say whether Bitcoin will become universally recognized.  An altcoin conceivably could come along and displace it.

Bitcoin and gold share some properties.  But, they are two different "vectors" if you will.  BTC is a nice innovation, and might very well change history.  

But the story is not written yet.

I got the impression that some people seen to not care about that at all, as long price of BTC is 'good' and you can exchange bitcoin to fiat without problems.
Frankly speaking, Bitcoin is more fit to be global wealth storage anyway. Satoshi was probably aware that 10 minutes confirmation and 1 MB blocks aren't meant to replace top payment processors anyway.
We need adoption to make bitcoin a better payment solution but without network's capacity to serve this purpose it is a dead end.

This is a good way for the current population to view bitcoin. Much easier for the general concensus understand what it is. :-\

This has always been something I've had in the back of my mind to be honest, considering that a lot of the statements regarding Bitcoin from Satoshi were about what happened in 2008 and how a ton of people lost everything they owned it makes sense that Satoshi intended for Bitcoin to build wealth and have it secure as opposed to have it be some new super currency.

I'm on the fence right now; Bitcoin could potentially go either way. Both have pros and cons.

You just made it harder to decide whether to go and depend in the hands of the Bitcoin developers and miners or go depend on the powers of the Illuminati. On one hand there is a possibility that our money goes "poof" and on the other hand you also have the same possibility.

Bitcoin is the de facto cyber gold. It has many features similar to gold, especially the limit supply. Bitcoin is not really a day-to-day currency due to its limited amount. I invest bitcoin similar way as I invest gold.

Bitcoin is far better than gold, gold was always risky like you have mentioned thief, government, and it was always risk prone. And at most times it would become stagnant to. I don't personally like taking the gold as a investment cause it isn't. I would prefer to keep Bitcoin as it is and not term it gold 2.0 rather have the government again questions us as to why are we keeping Bitcoin. Bitcoin so far has escaped the eyes of government but I wonder how long, till they make some stupid rules for it. I would however support your call for unity for Bitcoin.

We do need a technology that would serve the people. The Satoshi White paper, called this a Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System, not a technology to store wealth or another commodity to replace gold. So Satoshi's goal for this was to replace the current "Cash" system.

We do not need any "war", the network of users will decide what they want from this system. ^smile^

i like OP statement that make bitcoin more valuable rather than gold and we as a part of bitcoin must be concern about this because there is a chance to bitcoin could be the rival of gold indeed still a lot of obstacles in the front of us to make bitcoin as gold but i believe someday people will more likely to choose bitcoin rather than gold because they tempted with bitcoin features that are not owned by gold

Not it could be both, and the block size can be increased to 2mb

https://www.strawpoll.me/12228388

Most people agree to a large blocksize, the consensus would be there.

i am agree with the OP that bitcoin is gold 2.0 and we should work together to make it happen. the blockchain technology offering many benefits and value to do this and i think blockchain technology is solution for future but we need to spread bitcoin into many places so other people will know and they will using bitcoin.

Bitcoin is truly golden
it is kind of virtual gold, great value and all popular
in the future, it will be the world's gold

If there is only 1-2 merchants accepting it, it's because it's still not ready for user adoption...

Everyone will be using BTC to storage wealth, so it wont be only a small percentage of the population.

There other coins more suitable for the day to day payments, as buying a coffee or bread.





Agree, we're in the hands of a few devs and miners. That's the riskier part.







Thanks. And yes, we have to write the story and make history  ;)









Well done. And yes, there are more suitable coins for the day-day payments.







I guess you're right, the goverment will try to regulate it as soon as they realize what is really BTC.  >:(
That's another reason to call for unity







Bitcoin is the oldest, most secure and therefore the most trusted cryptocurrency, that makes it the place where people is gonna put his savings. Therefore, gold 2.0.

There are other coins more suitable for the d-d payments







Thanks. And I do agree with you and I hope it happens  :)






Agree. We need to spread it but with a united message.
BTC is Gold 2.0







Agree with you!!

With every features similar to gold as a backing, as a commodity, as a form of investment is now found on bitcoin. So bitcoin being said as gold v2.0  is a right decision. These days taxation is the only issue with bitcoin, some countries were making regulations regarding the taxation for using bitcoin.

That to my mind does not constitute a risk. Bitcoin is open source and if the developers are pig headed, an alt would take its place.
If not gold, we could have a new platinum 2.0  :)

what a concept man. GOLD 2.0  ;D ;D
you had mentioned that bitcoin is the way to pass wealth to generation after generation but what if bitcoin that you had earned hard get banned of unusable due to  Quantum computing which would probably destroy teh network. and On emore thing that value of bitcoin keeps changing time to time so you cant be sure to keep it as gold or mud.

I have a different view of the topic you have posted here. I will not take bitcoin as gold 2.0 and also not as an instrument to save or transfer. Yes, they do have some similarity but most they are different from each other and their uses are also different.

Gold is a tangible asset and bitcoin is not. That's the basic difference. Bitcoin's value is very very dynamic, which creates ample opportunities to trade. However, gold price is not dynamic like bitcoin. That is the reason why people is using gold for generations to safeguard their savings. You can make ornaments with gold but you can't do anything with bitcoin apart from purchasing something.

People will want something with stable price to safeguard their savings. Bitcoin doesn't fill that bill. Bitcoin can be used as an investment to fetch a higher return than any other conventional return, but with a higher amount of risk. So lets take bitcoin as it is, lets not be confused it with gold and its properties.

Will see what happens with taxation. In any case. you can always move to the most suitable country  ;)




Quantum computing will join the mining forces, not destroy it.
Or hope so  :P



Bitcoin not being stable has already been discussed. It's because it's user base. Not meant to be stable until we achieve a considerable user base (90% of world population)


btw, I have started a similar threads in reddit
join the discussion there too

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/65yhou/bitcoin_is_gold_20_what_humanity_has_been_waiting/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/65yke5/bitcoin_is_gold_20_what_humanity_has_been_waiting/

As soon as I see this, I smell an agenda.

To have value, something must not only be scarce but be useful.  You talk
about the users, but unless users can have fast cheap transactions
then why is it useful in the first place?

Yes Bitcoin has other properties like hard to forge, easy to store, etc.
But widespread use is one of the most important factors.

Why would people use Bitcoin as a store of value when other cryptos
could also offer high security and better utility?  How would the security
even be able to compete?

And why do we have to give up usefulness and low fees at all?

Most people who advocate that Bitcoin "shouldn't be coffee money"
are naively (or intentionally) buying into the narrative that Bitcoin
should not be peer to peer cash like Satoshi envisioned, but should
be a settlement network like Blockstream/Core developers want.

The only reason someone ever needs to argue that "Bitcoin shouldn't
be coffee money" is to justify high fees, which in turn is an excuse
to interfere in the free market between miners and users by
artificially constraining the transaction suppply with a blocksize cap.

Even if you believe in all the 'threats to decentralization' from
bigger blocks (which I consider largely to be false), you should
have the honesty to admit that you want Bitcoin to be a high fee
settlement network and not peer to peer cash.

That's actually a good take on it to be completely honest. Got me thinking a bit and you're actually pretty spot-on.
While you're very right about people wanting more tangible assets, I'm curious if the current and coming generations are still going to view PMs as safeguards for their wealth (like their parents and generations before them) or if they're going to start pushing towards more digital and "technological" assets, for different reasons.
Personally I don't think there's any better feeling than having some gold or silver in the hand, but that differs for people. Especially considering so many millennials are so poor, I doubt there'll be any major form of PM investing due to a simple lack of income.

I agree with op that bitcoin is a good investment but only for time being. But bitcoin should not be compared with gold. Both are different. Gold has two uses . It can be used as an investment as well as for ornamental purpose. Whatever happen gold has got its own value. But bitcoin is not like that. If tomorrow any genius software engineer develop something better than bitcoin, everybody will leave bitcoin behind. You cannot predict its price.

That's true... Bitcoin is more risky than gold investment. Technology is always being improved, and even faster than before. In the future someone can creates a better Crypto-Currency which can replaces Bitcoin with many advantages convincing big holders to migrate to the new currency lefting the Bitcoin. It can happen and as you said, we can't predict it and it's price.

Gold is material, Bitcoin is virtual, the safest way to keep wealthy is by keeping material stuff, especially when we are talking about gold or any other precious metal/jewel/mineral.

you should change your avatar


http://rs685.pbsrc.com/albums/vv212/sadlerbw/General/tin-foil-hat.jpg~c200



Because is the first SCARCE digital good?


Could you just read the previous post?

Could you just read the previous post?
Bitcoin = best security
other coin= day a day currency


This is not 2011. Expect 7.5 billion people to start using btc. Do you prefer none of them using it, so you can send your peanuts for free?


Do you feel better not respecting other opinions?



As said, maybe you should just read previous posts
The main feature of btc and the innovation it brings is not paying a coffee.
Noone has ever stopped you from paying a coffee.
Do you understand that?



I honestly have to admit that you are a low quality manipulator...
Dont worry, someday you will see the big picture.
I'll sum it up for you

7.5 billion people on earth
more than 1k cryptocurrencies in 2017
You can pay your coffee in all of them
We all agree one of them is the most valuable and trustworthy









you can foresee the moving to a digital world but you fail to undestand how wealth is created and you think the millenials wont create value.
Maybe in your country the millenials are so in debt but
1) that's not like that in every country of the world
2) Most of the millenials are in asia

http://www.generations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/global_millennial_comparison_pdf__1_page_.png
(sorry says invalid image)

The trend to the digital world can be seen in newspapers, tv and now banks too. Young people dont visit the banks they make all the transaction throught internet











That's true. But not sure about someone creating something better that bitcoin. You can see devs everyday "creating something better than bitcoin"
Network effect is so big in btc.
Bitcoin has 4 million fulltime salesmen. It's hard to compete with that.










Same as previous post

First mover advantage and the network effect won't last forever.  They are already being seriously eroded by competitors like Ethereum.



For now, yes.  But take away the ability to conduct small transactions, and demand will drop, leading to lower prices, which leads to lowered mining revenue , which leads to lowered security... which in turn leads to even less demand.
 
You're allowed to intentionally buy into that narrative.  Do you admit that you do?

Although gold is physical and btc you cant even touch it, what really give the value of gold to be of such result now? Why the others dont have the same treatment as how the gold works? Because all these are just the perceived values, the society decide the price and it shall be. Similarly, btc is not physical but there are demands for it and there are supply for it. So how do we judge the price of btc, we will just leave it to the open market to buy or sell btc. Hopefully, people are more willing to try out btc.

It's simply not mandatory that Bitcoin will be adopted by the 99% (it's actually more 99,8%, as the user base of BTC is estimated to be less than 10 million). It could also be LTC, ETH or whatever that captures the remaining 99%. Or no cryptocurrency at all.

Bitcoin has an advantage because of its network effect. But this advantage will decrease if high fees prevent the usage as a currency. I don't consider current fees too high, but in the future if nothing is done they will be too high (50cent to 1 USD should be the limit). My preference would be heterogeneous scaling solutions (see the answer below to jonald_fyookball).


Yep, fully agree.


The problem is that the math is against infinite on-chain scalability. We need a form of "off-chain" capacity or "sharding", so not all nodes have to validate all transactions.

Sidechains with a decentralized two-way-peg and LN should, together, be enough to scale up to hundreds of millions or even billions of users. LN for the coffee, sidechains for larger buys and smart contracts, and on-chain transactions for big transfers and as the base for the sidechain pegs.

I would say let the free market decide.  Remove artificial limits that impact supply/demand like the blocksize and let people choose whether they want to pay a miner to include their transaction in a block, or an LN hub to route a payment.  

Would you agree?  If not, why not?

1) You mean ETH or ETC?  :D Don't make me laught

2) You don't get the whole picture. Do you understand what is going on out of crypto space? Do you understands that we're less than 0,1% into the cryptos...
How the fuck demand will drop? lol

3) Low quality manipulator 
lol
Keep fudding kid











Not my point of view.
Yes having to high fees won't help to be adopted by new people.
But you don't need to be using it everyday to make it useful.
It must fullfill a need. And that need can be storing value in the long term.

True is the bigger the user base, the more stable is gonna be, but saying it must be used in the day a day by the whole world is not true.
The whole world needs to agree on what gives value to bitcoin and it's being scarce and the most trustable network.

Don't get me wrong, the better the technology, the more we all profit from using it, but expecting 2billions coffee to be paid in btc everyday (and that's just the first coffee/purchase of the day) is too much.









You mean to hard fork?
That would be the end of bitcoin as the main digital currency.
No new people will join cryptos if it's already hard enought to understand bitcoin and now they have to choose which one is gonna be the winner in 10 years.

They will wait until the fight is over or just get into another coin

Leadership is needed. Also long term view.

I agree to the phrase "let the free market decide", but the free market can also decide to stay with a blocksize limit. Nobody can force a participant to use a "unlimited" client.

But how do you force "the whole world" to use Bitcoin, and only Bitcoin, as "digital gold" if it has only a few use cases?

I agree that the "feature to pay everyday for your coffee" seems not important at the first glance. But if another coin can provide it, then it has an usability advantage over Bitcoin.

The crucial question is if the first-mover advantage is strong enough to counter the "usability advantage" of other coins. I think if the usability advantage is big enough then a switch of many BTC users to another coin is pretty probable. And miners can simply jump to the best coin (OK, it's not that easy taking into account all the different PoW algorithms, but in principle it's possible).

And once another coin is getting stronger, Bitcoin exposes itself to a growing risk of "short-selling attacks" (accompanied by "Bitcoin is dead, cannot be used for nothing, etc." posts in this forum ;) ) If it has low liquidity because of low usage (only as "gold") then it is more vulnerable as less people will have open buy orders at exchanges.

The "killer feature" of Bitcoin is, for me, international remittances. That doesn't need super-low fees, but its advantage to Western Union and similar services would be nil if the fees rise to 5$/transaction. In the next bubble, if no scalability solution is found and we stay with 1 MB, this price is not far away.

Not force but people will understand the smartest decision is to hold btc and not other coins.

All the time the cryptos user base has grown it has been in a short perior of time. what makes the price to fly (to the moon). In this short period of time, people joins the cryptospace and think they can make more money on alts (all look almost the same, so why buy the most expensive one?).

After that short period of time, the user base stops growing (until the tech is ready/useable for the next segment of population to adopt it) and is in that moment that price starts going down.

Since the price depends a lot in the % real holders/speculators, bitcoin is the one holding best it's value and that makes people realize that bitcoin is the best asset to hold for the long term.


(i know it's not needed but just for enjoyment) http://bitcoinprice.tech/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Bitcoin-Price-History.png

Got it in one. I suspect some trolls here have altcoins and hoping BTC usefullness is limited so their altcoins rises in value.

What you say is true until now, because altcoins have few-to-no use cases and so its almost-exclusive use is speculation. For example, if you today want to send money from the US to India (a typical remittance destination), it's difficult to use other cryptocoin that's not Bitcoin. In the US or other industrialized countries, there are multiple altcoin buyers and sellers, but in the typical remittance destination countries (mostly third-world) you will find nobody or some few that do it at a very unattractive price.

Now imagine the following scenario: A company offers to buy and sell LTC in India for an attractive price, because it thinks LTC with LN will have a lot of potential and sees growth potential. That's only a small step, but it can have quite interesting consequences.

Imagine now an user wants to send 50 $ from the US to India. He sees that with BTC he would have pay 1$ (2%) of fees if he wants a quick confirmation (he wants that, because he can't afford a loss due to volatility). But he googles and finds the company that recently opened and offers LTC/INR exchange for good rates, and with LTC he would only have to pay 0,01$ of fees and even then, the confirmation would be faster.

What would happen? If he's risk averse he could still use bitcoin, but maybe he thinks, "let's try it" and uses Litecoin.

Now this user does that several times without problems and thinks: "Mmh, LTC is worth only 1/20 of the BTC price, but for me, it's more usable. And they offer LN if their blocks get full. Isn't that a good investment?"

And here a positive-feedback circle starts and LTC begins to near Bitcoin's market cap. That could have extra consequences (BTC holders panic and sell because they fear a crash because of its decreasing advantage over other coins), but one thing is clear: in this scenario, there is no universal agreement anymore that BTC is the "only one crypto" worth an investment.

LTC is only an example (I chose it because of the recent news about Segwit) but that scenario could happen with most well-maintained altcoins out there. So for BTC to conserve its advantage, it should not ignore the competition of other coins and never depend on the "digital gold" use case only.

I dont think that bitcoin may be called as a "gold 2.0".
I dont see any really common things that bitcoin and gold have, except that some of the people are using it for investing purposes, and do speculation on both of the assets.

But bitcoin is not something that price is going up during the crisis, because gold usually behaves like that.

When there is a threat of some kind of war, the gold is becoming usually more expensive because the demand is higher than usual. It can rise up the price in particular country.

You completely avoided or didn't understand my questions.

I asked if you admit that you want Bitcoin to be a settlement network instead of peer-to-peer cash.
(Don't think too hard about it, its not that complicated of a question.)

And by free market, I meant remove the blocksize limit.  Let on chain and off chain compete freely.

They are both good as store of value.  Bitcoin due to its nature to increase in price is a good way of storing value.  Aside from that the rarity of Bitcoin and how it is mined is based on gold rarity and how it is mined.  So I guess with this, I believe that BTC is gold 2.0 ( digital gold)

What you said is correct, bitcoin is more good like investment just like we do gold as investment, but in bitcoin the price will always increase in long term till their are so many good news pour, and more country accept the digital currency.

It is also a money 2.0,
But I would rather call it storage of value (and that is what bitcoin really is).
It is an amazing invention, and it will hold the value better than any stock, bond, gold, or money.
But I believe it is still in its infancy, and we are still not fully aware of its potential.
In its current state it’s still volatile and unpredictable, but once price settles down in more calm range it will become mainstream asset.