Bitcoin Forum

Some interesting reading here:

http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z

Mark Karpeles, the chief executive of Tibanne Co of Tokyo, which operates Mt Gox, told Thomson Reuters that the company was not averse to cooperating with authorities. "As a company handling Bitcoins, it is not our intention of doing anything illegal," Karpeles said via email on Tuesday. "We sent a letter to the Drug Enforcement Administration to address this issue."

"Basically we explain what Bitcoin is, and the fact it's much more traceable than what the media has been saying."

Karpeles said Bitcoin transactions were in fact traceable. He said that while the system had been built to be anonymous, it was "really easy to track Bitcoins across the network."

He added that since most Bitcoin transactions flowed through Mt Gox, it was "much easier to see how the funds were cashed out, and locate the final target if there was need."

Amir Taaki, the founder of the Britcoin exchange based in London said he has already approached British regulators in an effort to obtain "legalized, regulated status."

"We want to make Bitcoin legal, not have it outlawed," he said. He said Britcoin also would be willing to help root out criminal activity, and was keeping account records.

Britcoin has been all about sucking the government's unit from the very beginning. No surprise there. I wouldn't be surprised with Mt. Gox either. They are getting very large.

That's not really surprising. They're getting so big they'd eventually get shut down if they were suspected of accommodating money laundering.

I'll just leave this here...

"The Mole lives an exemplary life, obeying all possible laws, filing taxes, crossing the street only in crosswalks, holding a respectable job (maybe even a government job) … but on the side and in silence gives help to freedom causes and freedomistas. Or saves herself up for the day when a single act of sabotage or whistleblowing can bring down an enemy of liberty. "

http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2010/06/07/so-what-exactly-is-a-freedom-outlaw/

Ah, good ol' Claire, I gotta dust off that "things to do" book.
Thanks for the affirmation, but is it time yet?  8)

It's damn close.

So hoping for the best, I'm still not happy about quotes like this one:

He said that while the system had been built to be anonymous, it was "really easy to track Bitcoins across the network."
...most Bitcoin transactions flowed through Mt Gox, it was "much easier to see how the funds were cashed out, and locate the final target if there was need."

Why the hell did he tell them that?
Now he's on the hook to deliver the goods.

 ???

You should change the topic to "Mt Gox & Britcoin make themself ready for serious-businesses to adapt bitcoin"

That article is excellent news for bitcoin.

Oh, silly me. You put my mind at ease.

You mean to say that me worrying sick about yet another piece of evidence of this encroachment of fascism and M-Tux becoming a Konzentrationslager kapo, was all for nothing?

It is a good news indeed.
Now decentralized blackmarket exchanges will emerge, protected by TOR and other anonymous networks.
And having legal exchanges like Mt Gox and Britcoin is also very important. I expect it to work like this:

Blackmarket goods <-> Blackmarket exchanges <-> Cash <-> Legal exchanges  <-> Legal goods

qft

You really think a bank like mtgox's doing $1mil a month in book, at least, is going to be able to NOT cooperate with govt. authorities like some kind of sit-in protester?  No, they have to pay taxes and comply with subpoenas, court orders, and regulations just like every other business.

Hey, what's wrong with Fascism? At least they have great muffins there!

Jokes aside, I think it'd be silly for someone to think that their transactions are anonymous when they deal with mtgox. You have an account, you're ip is probably recorded when logging in. And to make it worse, you send your money to/from a Dwolla account, check, or other very traceable routes.

standard and totally expected. excited to see the evolution of bitcoin exchanges.

Of course, All good things sell out.
Just look at music.

Although it blows that mtgox and britcoin seem so reticent to give help to government agencies instead of just complying with them when they ask for information, this is not unexpected.

This.

BTC transactions "protected" by TOR can be trivially stolen by malicious TOR end nodes.

Yeah, just like they can be "stolen" by the bitcoin node receiving the transaction ::)

Uhhh.... like how? Bitcoin transactions are cryptographically signed.

The comment referred only to IP transfers, which are covered by the BTC spec. The more usual case of BTC-address to BTC-address transfers is secure over TOR.

TOR anonymity is usually overrated. It does secure you well for anything that doesn't interest the big agencies that much. If you've got something really evil to hide, using TOR is rather going to attract attention than the opposite. Many backbones and end nodes are intensively monitored and reveal a lot of useful information by statistical inference.

And mtgox got hacked today, some people lost their coins and dollars :( :'(

Wow, this is surprising.

Well said, sir.

I've converted foreign currencies in cash in small local shops and it's quick and easy. It's only a matter of time before they start accepting bitcoin, provided that:
1. the price stabilize
2. there are large and legal major exchanges in every country
3. they're tech savvy

I have used Britcoin and it is an excellent service, fair play to the guy for doing it. To charge fees it has to be legal, which is fair enough I think. It would also give traders a bit of protection.

There's no need for MtGox, etc. to challenge authorities as they help establish bitcoins as a widely accepted commodity.

That’s just because they think inside the box and not outside it. The answers to fix the problems you have highlight exist. You just have to have an imagination. I know that can be hard at times because most of us went to government school and imagination is outlawed there, but imagination can set us free.

While I personally feel that "bending over" to a governmental authority is a terrible idea, as it corrupts all great ideas, in reality, there is almost nothing that any government can do to stop the use of bitcoins for illegal or legal activity except to outlaw exchanges in their own country. An example would be the US making it illegal for a bitcoin, USD exchange to be legal in the US, but one can just circumvent this by using an exchange in another county wired to a foreign bank account then sent to the US. No government can stop that essentially.

Also, tracing bitcoins is damn near impossible, yeah, you can find the trade in account on Mt Gox, but once it goes through a wallet or two, unless you keep a real close eye on it, its impossible to trace, hence why silkroad uses bit coins, almost impossible to trace.  Essentially, bitcoins are like a swiss bank account, unless you want somebody to know what you have, they aren't going to know.

Except the Swiss Frank doesn't loose 90% of it's value over 5 months. ;] We still need that BTC economy to increase stability and we need miners to be marginalized in that economy.

I wonder sometimes, can bitcoins really be traced? Don't people who are using them for illegal purposes know all of the ways to avoid being traced on cashout?

This is true, but I never talked about value, merely how the cryptography works making it almost un-traceable, its been compared to AES, which as to my knowledge even the government is unable to crack in any given time unless they luck out.

But, I can't lose money in bitcoin as I don't pay for power (thank you "free" electricity) and I bought my graphics cards for gaming, they just mine in my free time, but I assume the price will go back up, as things level off and bitcoins begin being used in other places as well.

If you want Bitcoin to be widely accepted, then the big exchanges need to cooperate with the government.

Bitcoin is not about facilitating some sort of underground shady movement of criminals. It is about reforming our monetary system legitimately.

True, but there's no need to willingly and gladly cooperate with criminals either. You may behave neutrally and if they ever point a gun at you, then you obey. Particularly with states, which have to be somehow predictable.
The way I see it, it seems Amir for example has been begging for his majesty's blessing since the very beginning. And MtGox is now tracing all their users, holding ransom the money of those who do not agree until they submit their IDs. And I'm not aware of any actual threat MtGox has suffered that could justify such behavior. Meanwhile, even UBS, a big bank, resisted while it could against the US government, only surrendering its customers' data when the threat became really strong (suspension of their banking license in US).

I'm very suspicious about these exchanges, to say the least. Let's hope MoonShadow is right and my suspiciousness has no reason of being.

Why cooperate with a den of wolves and thieves?

You are contradicting yourself, sir.