Bitcoin Forum

chronos00 wrote:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62777.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62777.0)

As I see, a lot of people have encountered this problem when using OKPay. This can be seen on their forum (http://forum.okpay.com/forumdisplay.php?5-Sending-Receiving-OKPAY). Almost all the posts are devoted to unmotivated delays in the transfer of funds. At the same time, funding on OKPay account does not cause any problems and always happen instantly. I am no exception as well. Unfortunately I wasn't smart enough and do not read the reviews before to use that service. Presently I am more "lucky" then you 'cause I am waiting for my money 5 days "only" :). Moreover, the support OKPay went on to direct forgery by sending me a screenshot with information about what's my problem is on Liqpay side from where I sent money to OKPay account. Fortunately, I am a client of of the bank, which owns Liqpay, so for me it was easy to find out. As it turned out later, that screenshot has nothing to do with my payment. Within an hour Liqpay supports gave me incontrovertible proof that the money came at the OKPay account instantly and gave the number of the order of payment (ORDER_ID: 362896:362896) to provide OKPay. For comparison: in five days OKPay support replied to me only 1(!) time. However, when I caught them on forgery their support just stopped responding to requests. But I realize that there is quite a bit people like me, who are equally well-versed in finance and in-laws, which opens up a huge scope for abuse.

I think there is every reason to think that we are dealing with a conscious policy of the company which allows them to keep the money in their account as long as possible. The greater the amount on their account, the large amounts company can operate with, the more profit OKPay receives from the bank and debtors. Their MC debit card service also suggests that the retention of funds in OKPay accounts is a top priority for the company. I'm just think it has no relation to the service of "instant payment."

The most ugly fact that OKPay does not just blocks a transaction as other companies do - in fact OKPay "freeze" your funds, actually confiscating assets indefinitely without proper legal basis. Actually it is the unauthorized use of funds. In fact, we are talking about forced lending without the lender's consent and payment of remuneration.

I need some time to get acquainted with the British financial and corporate law, as well as dig into their statutes to understand how such actions correspond to the UK corporate and financial legislation. If I have time, I will do it next weekend. I certainly would not apply the lawsuit 'cause the game's not worth the candle (unless it is a class action lawsuit, I indirectly engaged in such in Russia, Ukraine and India sometimes), but I can at least make a formal complaint to the appropriate financial authority.

But in any case, until I have every reason to recommend to avoid this method of payment.

Regards,
A.K.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62777.0

tks for the heads up

I read the other post and checked out the ripoff report and wanted to say I appreciate the word of caution...  But I *have* been using OKPay quite a bit on smallish amounts (a few thousand euros here and there) and have had no problems.

That said, I think I'll take your words of warning and be very cautious if and when the day comes to cash out some BTC.....  I don't want any national currency ever landing in my bank account if you know what I mean as tax authorities in my country are notorious for pre-emptively analysing all private bank accounts and harassing anyone who is foolish enough to deposits windfalls.

Lastly, I said "-if- and when" because I do hope in the long run to be able to buy goods with BTC and keep the value in the blockchain, and I see promising developments in this area.  I suspect that in the next 5 years the crazy value fluctuations we now witness should stabilize and BTC will discover its value whatever that may be.  I find this grand experiment fascinating and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.

You are welcome. Please everyone who was careless enough to work with OKPay and wants to help in the important task to send me a private message with email, Skype or phone number.
Regards,
Antonio

thanks for the info!

bezzeb, I appreciate you for your information, but I hope you understand that a single post can't inspire confidence in the comparison with a mass problem that has faced by such a mass of people, especially given the anonymity of the authors.

As for me, I am ready to provide full and comprehensive evidence to support my every word at any time for any request.

However, we are collecting any information, so if you can provide proof, I will be very grateful. In this case, please send me PM with your contacts and I will certainly contact you.

Regards,
Antonio

Hey Antonio,
Well i am not interested in defending OKpay.  I'll PM you and send a screen shot of the transactions they processed for me.  Hearing you guys though I'm not sure I'll use them again....

Thanks, I was about to sign up with them.

Thanks for the warning, they looked ok to me at first glance and i opened an account yesterday, and was ready to deposit some money, gladly i made
a search here on this forum before proceeding with the deposit... i'll skip them

Hi

I have been having problems with OK Pay too. I just posted about it actually:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231037.msg2436884#msg2436884

I requested a withdrawal of 500BTC on Sunday and they quoted me a USD exchange rate and everything looked OK - at first. Then I noted the payment was still pending 2 hours on and the BTC hadnt arrived in the wallet as i ordered. So i open a ticket and wait.

18 hours later I get an email telling me the transaction has been reversed with this rather non-sensical `explanation:`

Reason:
not enough btc to complete your request

So i chase the ticket and though I have now had 3 replies from OK Pay, each is about 1 line offering the same odd explanation.

Although the USD has been credited back to my wallet now, i had several problems with this

1. Why they accepted the order in the first place if somehow they `didnt have enough bitcoin` to fill it
2. Why they took 18 hours to notify me of it, preventing me from taking alternative action
3. the USD in my Wallet were unavailable for that time preventing me from taking alternative action
4. Bitcoin has now moved against me so when i do make the transaction it will cost me 12% more - so a 6k loss.
5. I have received no sufficient cogent explanation about why they couldnt make the order they accepted. They use the Mt Gox exchange dont they to transact bitcoin to flll customer`s orders? Isnt that why their exchange rates are so uncompetitive? Because they need to meet their own costs and the exchanges costs and have a margin to protect against volatility? Otherwise are their uncompetitive rates just profiteering?
6. It seems to me this sort of action could be the cover for a scam. If they take orders, then delay actioning them for days, if BTC moves against the customer then they just complete the order late, and he has little to complain about. If BTC moves with the customer then they just reverse the transaction with some lame explanation (not enough bitcoin)  and keep the transaction on their own account, thereby making 6k risk free effectively with my capital.

So much for their strap line that money paid is money paid! This is the 3rd transaction of mine they have reversed and I have only made 5 or 6 transactions with them in total!

LAK

Thanks for your information.

Thanks

Thanks for your information.

Thanks for your information.

Be careful!

careful!

thanks for the info!

Thanks for your information.

3q  ;D

thanks for the info!  :(

Thanks for your information. ;)

Thanks for your information. :D :-* :-*

3q

Be careful!

Hello everyone!

I agree, but they as well can have shitty software and not rejecting your 500 btc order immediately because they dont have enought USD at mtgox to buy the 500 btc

Hello Open4Lies

Thanks for the reply.

Oh, i agree entirely that my last point is entirely speculative, and possibly a little paranoid. But their reluctance to provide me with any sort of explanation beyond repeating the 1 line `We didnt have enough BTC` filled me with suspicion. Why not just provide me with a cogent explanation rather than trying to fob me off with just a few words?

I have asked repeatedly for an explanation - it is quite beyond me why they didnt just explain properly.

LAK

谢谢提醒

感谢您的信息。

Be careful!

OKpay is not OK ?

They are OK. THe problem is with the `pay` bit.

Be careful!

Hard to be OKPay, without the OK Pay part.... 

I've been using BitInstant and have had instant success with them...  Highly recommended thus far.

Caution is the boat!

OKPay also seems inconsistent on their pay through to BTC exchanges, such as BTCe. They are also prone to changing policies, like whether you can or cannot send money to BTCe, without any advance notice.

I use them for small amounts and because it's the only easy way to get Bitcoins.
Load money in your wallet send said money to my bitcoin address  ;D

I have finally had a further reply:

We will update the withdrawal form and introduce a withdrawal limit (limited to the amount of available reserves), once again we apologize for the inconvenience

Still no meaningful explanation.

As i said, i have either been treated with contempt or exploited to provide risk-free profit for them. I guess i will never know as they seem incapable or unwilling to provide a response of more than 25 words.

A friend suggested that if they are no longer dealing with Mt Gox, maybe they are restricting themselves to using `clean` mined ie freshly minted bitcoins, and therefore have a very modest  and limited supply. Or that is just an excuse to rip off customers.

Good luck if you continue to use them!

LAK

For BTC / Mt. Gox users, this thread doesn't matter much any more as OKpay is useless for buying BTC from Mt.Gox now.

To see Mt. Gox's position on OKpay from May 28, 2013:
https://mtgox.com/pdf/20130528_okpay_statement.pdf

FYI, i've used OKpay successfully in the past but do not use them any more because of the above.  I don't think they're criminals, but others think differently - be safe and be smart.  Make your own choice.

 Be careful!

thanks for the info!

thanks for the info! :-*

 Can't agree more.

It has been15 days since i made a wire,but i haven't receive my money untill now.

What can i do? I tried to call them but no one answers.

Pretty upset

i'm a victim 31 days now my $2000 i wired to okpay is not credited to my okpay wallet, i'm now ignored by their support ticket system, any LOUD ANGRY NOISE i make they delete in their support ticket and forum of okpay

i picked okpay because i was lured by the low commission cost for funding my btc-e.com account

after having read the coindesk article about btc-e below, i consider myself scammed, $2000 is lost

http://www.coindesk.com/btc-e-exchange-banking-issues/

okpay is quick to answer inquiries but once you wire your money - your scammed

other info i observed:

okpay is unreachable, their phone no. is an answering machine, their address a po box in british virgin island

some people are lucky - people okpay don't scam - i see in reddit.com that okpay is a selective scammer, this strategy works for okpay because some people will defend okpay in the forums they have legitimately funded their accounts lucky them, okpay is still a scammer

mywot.com is not working for okpay.com - they have an army of dedicated spammers making okpay look good

mywot.com is flawed

forum.okpay.com is cleaned up every 1-12 hours of negative post like "WHERE IS MY MONEY OKPAY???????"  "GIVE ME MY MONEY OKPAY"  "IT'S BEEN X NUMBER OF DAYS ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

i will not be surprise if okpay suddenly disappears and changes to another company name

with that be careful with unknown money processors, there are so many of them.... they will always be here

in fact i think only in bitcointalk.org is where okpay's army can't do anything... but give that selective oh i'm lucky okpay sent my money there were no issues

$2000 lesson folks hope this gets to as many people as possible

thanks. no more okpay for me.

yes, we'd better use the big exchange website.

Hi. I've started to work with OKPAY few months ago. First thing I faced to is verification. I know many people complain about this procedure but how they can not understand that this is just for money security. I'have passed verification in few days after providing with extra document type. And you know that did not annoy me at all. I like that they have mane depositing methods, that's very convenient for me, also they have mane exchangers and through this I send money to another systems I have accounts with. I had the following story. I ordered their OKPAY card, got it and went to another country for travelling. And my card was stoled with almost all my funds there! I was desparate. I have contacted their support service and they instantly blocked the card. After that they helped me to return funds back from my stolen card to my wallet after I sent them a kind of notice with some details ( don't remember now exactly). I liked that they really were acting very fast in my situation.