Bitcoin Forum

Has anyone done any serious studies on electricity consumption due to cryptocurrency related activities like mining? Possibly with comparison between different currencies and feasibility of maintaining such consumption? Is there an argument to be made for or against them in the context of global warming?

As its decentralized such issues might gets risen, but if wasting of electricity is made in relation to the outcome then sure the entire system of crytocurrency as well other activities too gets paused. In a recent investigation police destroyed a mining farm that was operating far away from the city using the public electricity without proper registration. If governments make regulations sure several such mining farms will be destroyed by respective governments.

Electricity consumption has nothing to do with the global warming.Electricity production creates the global warming.If we produce electricity with green techonologies ,the consumption of such energy won`t be a problem.
Anyway,after 21M bitcoins the mining will stop and this issue will disappear.

Sorry, bad wording. To consume, we must produce, and green technologies aren't close to covering our current consumption, let alone future consumption. Hypothetically we could get to the stage where green technologies take over and then there would be no problem. However, this is not the current case and most likely won't be for a long time. So until that point, and with our current non-sustainable production of electricity used for bitcoin related activities, is bitcoin big enough to do damage?

The end of mining won't happen for at least 100 years if at all, and in that time some serious damage could already be done.

I doubt that there will be a thorough review on something that is considered not worthy to conduct. I mean don't take it personally but Mining will have less affect on the study of electricity consumption because they are a little part of the community. If scholars will study related to that they might focus of airconditions and refrigerators which majority of the population have.

It's not so simple an equation but is enough to demonstrate the real world demand and supply of electricity. The fact is, there are already places in the world where green power is outstripping use, and in some countries governments buy back this extra electricity.

For political and economical reasons, there is still a push for conventional non sustainable energy. Coal, oil is still profitable to the privileged, still at dire cost to the underprivileged.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bitcoin-could-consume-as-much-electricity-as-denmark-by-2020

http://www.coindesk.com/400-million-year-researcher-argues-bitcoin-mining-worth-cost/

Technologically PoW is an evolutionary Dead End.

Proof of Stake is the only Truly Long Term Sustainable Method for running a virtual coin network.


 8)

Cars and planes are the major sources of global warming rather than electricity driven cars & devices. So same goes with bitcoin mining, no any gases are produced during mining expect some hot air. Which have almost negligible effect on our atmosphere. So I don't think there is anything to argue about negative impacts of bitcoin mining on our environment.

Yes it sure is,but Bitcoin is not the only crypto currency that is being mine,there are still hundreds of existing proof of works coins and many more coming,this is the reason why it's preferable to choose pos algo coins because the consumption is much less compare to pow coins.

Bitcoin was started as an alternative to present monetary system. Now compare the resources used in Bitcoin development (mining and other expenses) to Monetary System (banks, ATM, running costs). Bitcoin hardly utilize 1-2% as what utilized by present banking and monetary structure. And what about presence of 2 AC in 10x6 feet ATM room? Do these ACs contribute nothing to Green House gases?
Re-think! :o

Let's compare bitcoin to what they usually like to usually compare it to - gold. How is gold mined and what are the costs? Aside from all the energy used to mine it, it usually comes with an environmental cost, with landscapes destroyed and chemicals from digging as well as processing the gold can also escape into the environment. Cryptocurrencies only become damaging to the environment if the electricity used was from polluting plants like coal and oil.

Yeah these are the sorts of reasoning I was wondering about. As bitcoin gets more and more in the spotlight, in my opinion these issues must be studied in more detail.

Bitcoin might use 1 or 2 per cent of banking''s consumption,  though it's probably more. It probably has 0.1 per cent or less of banking''s users. It sounds like a lot of mining uses hydro among other things but it's still shockingly profligate. If I were designingit from scratch that's definitely something I'd have remained more conscious of.

Yeah, unless some really huge mega corporate company gets into mining no scientists are going to be looking into the energy consumption and let alone what the energy consumption does to affect global warming. Scientists are only going to come and do a job if there is reporting and money to come out of it, and in this case there is going to be nothing to be made to profit if they were to look into the issue.

Companies that manufacture and sell air-conditioners and refrigerators like said above have a lot to profit off of having scientists say that this is "eco-friendly" or some bullshit along those lines.

I think some studies will point out that cryptocurrencies using proof-of-stake have the advantage of not requiring a high electricity consumption. But I think in the case of proof-of-work, the energy we use is not being wasted. As long as this keeps the network running in a more decentralized and stable way, in fact this can be considered an efficient way of power usage.

Let me ask you this.... Has anyone made a study of the electric consumption and eco footprint of ALL the banks in the world and also the electricity and

resources being spend to mine resources for metals for coins and also to manufacture paper currencies globally. Then they need to include the transport

of this currency and security systems needed to guard it.  ??? ..... I bet you, if you compare that to Bitcoin mining, you will not even have to ask this

question.  ;)  { ATM's run 24/7 and how much electricity do they use? }

No question. Banking's energy use far outstrips current bitcoin use, but I'm actually not sure how much less crypto overall is using in relative terms to achieving the same purposes and needs.

Bitcoin alone might "win" this argument but if you were to count all the cryptocurrencies just focused on nothing but trading and mining..?

In the case of the energy consumption caused by mining, the whole thing needs to be analyzed by comparing it to the other currencies and payment systems that are in use. I read somewhere that Bitcoin is currently using 30% of the amount of energy used by the banking system, and yet Bitcoin is involved only in a small fraction of the economic activity taking place (this 30% doesn't include the production and shipping of mining equipment). So, as more people start using Bitcoin, the amount of energy consumption is going to increase by a huge amount.
  
Perhaps more energy efficient ways of mining Bitcoin can be invented. What miners can do today is to purchase and use the most energy efficient mining equipment. They could also set up their mining systems in cold climates, so that cooling doesn't use up additional energy.

How would trading drastically influence the electrical consumption and push that past the electricity being used by banks? You know Wall street

and other financial markets around the world use much more electricity to operate than the average Bitcoin market. You only see the front end

and not the servers and mainframes behind it.

https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/53/68353-004-E4FAEF57.jpg

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/55356dbe6bb3f7796d84a8a8-1190-625/ibm-was-saved-this-quarter-by-one-of-its-oldest-product-lines-the-mainframe.jpg

You dont need to know how much electricity is being used since you csn tell by the total mining power. Just assume all gfx cards are on full since that is how they mine. So just take the average consumption of watt per hash. Its not exact but its good enough.

Why are ypu worrying about the tiny little bit GPUs are using up in electricity anyway ?

No there is no srguemwnt to be made for it about global warming. Why are you worrying about that when there people dumping toxic waste into the ocean and cutting down forests to burn the wood and coal that they mine in huge factories thst pump out this smoke all day long. GPUs sre not going to cause the Ozone layer to open up.

It depends on what Bitcoin is being used for:

As a currency, Bitcoin will likely evolve into a 'regional currency', i.e. it will be used by a limited set of individuals or institutions for a narrow application (see the ECB's notes on this: Euro banknotes - a means of payment recognised worldwide).

As an platform for innovation, Bitcoin is definitely sustainable. For example, Bitcoin has already caused a lot of people and institutions to examine inefficiencies with the financial system - security, speed, risk, transparency, cost, accessibility... Although Bitcoin will spur discussion around these issues, it's unlikely Bitcoin will be the actual technology that solves these.

For example, thinking about the most popular Bitcoin companies (Circle, Xapo, Bitpay, Coinbase, etc.), it seems clear that these companies have contributed a huge amount to innovation in the financial system, but that the Bitcoin-only business models will not survive. It's more likely that large incumbent financial services companies will apply the functional innovations to existing currencies and transaction systems. It's clear that some companies had these goals in mind.

As a distributed database technology, Bitcoin is not sustainable. The proof-of-work consensus method is unreasonably cost inefficient. There are numerous methods that are more efficient

Sustainability would only be possible if there's a growing support for crypto currencies. There is no point for the continuous existence of something if it doesn't serve any purpose. Right now, with the digital age, we see that these new digital currencies are coming out left and right and we are being given choices on how to benefit from their offerings.

Bitcoin mining nowadays requires expensive hardware, for you to be able to mine a great amount of bitcoin, and also requires a stable internet connection, and high on electricity consumption because your PC is 24/7 open. But I just don't see why Electricity consumption is connected to the Global Warming that is one of the problem that we are having in our Mother Earth.

We are the one who is responsible for this Global Warming, All of us, because of our irresponsible deeds here on earth. The burning of plastics and the factories which emits too much waste and smoke to the air, also the vehicles that emits black smoke from its Engine. This are the things that we should give a solution, because we, the all living things here on earth are the ones who are going to suffer from this.

Alternative energy sources can be used if a very serious investment is to be made. Apart from that, alternative energy costs will be more for small investors.
The most logical thing is to go to a country where your electricity is cheap.

chinese big farm use electricity that derivate from green source like hydro power plan, therefore they don't need themselves to run with green energy and it doesn't make sense anyway

global warning has more to do with industrial activity and nothing with bitcoin, where the heat generated is a joke in comparison, and it can genuinely re-used if they really wish to

and this for bitcoin, altcoin in general have even lower power consumption, i estimated a maximum of 500k gpu curently mining, with 100watt each you have from 50MW to 100MW in play...

We can have sustainability in bitcoin as well other digital currency, because cryptocurrencies were making evolution in the financial system. Periodically several other digital currencies with unique features have been existing. As quoted by one of the mate the digital currencies depends completely on mining process. So electricity is much important and other till resources were easily available digital currency network will sustain.

Even if all 21M coins are mined, that doesn't mean mining will stop

Mining refers primarily to finding new blocks which is essential to keep the Bitcoin network ticking. Miners will just earn from fees, not from the block reward as of now. Regarding electricity consumption vs production, if there were no consumption, there would obviously be no production either. Though I don't think that mining has any effect on global warming. In fact, I'm heavily inclined to think that global warming (if there is any, in the first place) has nothing to do with humans and their activity

Actually mining in altcoin is about equal to the bitcoin mining . In case of altcoin mining we have another chances of making some profit . Because as the altcoin mining earning is constant in the average time of mining but there remain still another chance if increase the price , if the price of altcoin increases then it may be result into the 100-200% profit in the single time ( which is not possible in case of bitcoin ).
So trend of altcoin increasing day by day due to the reason above .And in my opinion it depends upon the mining hardware that how much electricity is consumed by him , So here I will prefer for the altcoin mining instead of bitcoin .

There are many factors that we need to consider when we talk about sustainability of cryptocurrencies. Many are talking about mining and other technical stuff when we talk about cryptocurrency but those are just part and not the whole of cryptocurrency. But among other factors there is one basic and fundamental factor that a cryptocurrency must have in order to survive and that is the potential market. Potential market refers to people who might be interested to invest in such a coin, without people promoting your coin by buying it then it will be the end of your coin and it will end up as a shitcoin.

How do you know that?

As far as I know, there are not many hydroelectric power stations in China (even despite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam) the Three Gorges Dam being the largest power station in the world). According to this (http://) Wiki article, 73% of Chinese electricity production in 2014 came from burning coal. But coal-fired power stations are one of the most polluting electricity generating plants out there (even without taking into account the purported global warming) since coal is radioactive on its own

I wouldn't argue as they might have their quota of contributing to global warming but the aviation industry are the worst culprit yet they are treated with flexible hands while Bitcoiners and miners are treated with iron fist. I call for equality please.

Bitcoin mining was completely digital it doesn't give any bad impact to the environment ! If electricity is not a problem at all because there is too many way to gain electricity eitheir natiral or artificial !There is natural way of having an electricity either via solar or wind power , mining bitcoin has no bad effect in the environment unlike mining a gold which involves lot of risk

I understand your angle but not all cryptocurrencies are mined and if you get to compare fiat to them then you better name the entities to be compared. Mineable cryptocurrencies of course can have negative impact on our environment and that's a fact but that doesn't compare in any way to what other petrochemical companies and refineries are doing to our ozone layer thereby increasing global warming tremendously.

Regarding on Global Warming, well if you think that it is really happening and it is being cause by carbon emission from burning fossil fuels, then I think Bitcoin doesn't need to be responsible for it, and the invention of bitcoin is great really a great news. Because bitcoin is digital and weightless so it reduces our need to burn fossil fuels in order to transport, count gold, paper and coin money, and no one in the country has a monopoly on the production of bitcoin. it means bitcoin creates a non partisan basis on which country leaders can discuss and negotiate contrast designed and reduce the burning of fossil fuels.

I am not sure if someone raised any complaint against cryptocurrencies mining or not but I think it’s temporary phase (if just bitcoin is concerned). I also haven’t heard about any solar or wind mining farm yet but it would be nice to have a detailed data of electricity consumption and other aspects associated with it to study it further.

It's an undeniable fact that mining can cost lots of electricity and require a quite strong internet connection, but there are much bigger environmental problems we need to solve. Do you know how many tonnes of trash that the world throws away each day? Or how much energy that each country spends on cooling or heating systems? This alone has had destructive results on the environment, which has led to global warming. And as I can see that the number of people mining is way less than the number of people using electrical applicants. So it's not the main reason for global warming. And alternative energy is a solution, you should think about it.

I havnt carried out a study but i reckon that it pales into insignificance compared to all the Legacy banking systems around the world, heating the buildings, electricity for them and the like.

I believe that mining bitcoins produces no harm in the environment because there is no chemicals mix , no land drills ! no forest cuts and etc , bitcoin mining just need a machine and electricity and it can survive for itself ! Bitcoin mining consumes a lot electrcity same as hotels and other high class facilities but that doesnt mean it ruining the environment ! it was just an electricity its is not a factory or chemicals !

If I remember correctly, there have already been some relatively simple studies on this subject, and they concluded that the Bitcoin network is taking maybe about as much total energy as other traditional money networks do, however it all comes from electricity as opposed to other forms of mechanical energy.

There is a very minimal argument when it comes to cryptos (specifically Bitcoin) and global warming.

Yes, there are a lot of bigger industries out there that using more electricity than mining farms.
Sustainability of bitcoin and others cryptocurrency doesn't just depends on electricity obviously. Moreover, it consider has less impact to environment, especially global warming due to it just consume electricity, but others industries, animals farms, and exhaust gases from vehicles which responsible for it.

A Bitcoin mining farm probably consumes way more than a hotel.. :D but mining doesn't really "help" the global warming. We're doing many other different things that are really harming the world and warming the weather up, and we're concerned about a currency that's using just electricity? I don't think it is disastrous - then nobody would have electricity at their homes. Imagine all the electricity around the world being used summed up, THAT might be a problem. Not a few computers running.

It's true that Bitcoin doesn't directly create pollution like toxic chemicals, but the energy needed for mining means that coal and oil are getting used up during the process. It would be great if mining used clean energy sources. This, in addition to all the other advantages it provides, would create the possibility of Bitcoin becoming the payment system of a green economy. 

This actually.. will never happen.. Because miners wan't to make money.. they dont want to save the planet...
And since "green electricity" is way more expensive than just coal or atom (especially in e.g. China, without any regulations).. this is a nice idea..
but unfortunately will never happen  :-[

Well if you are talking about mining activity, is it profitable or not will depend on the price of coins be mined,
so we can be comparation the coins will be mined with other coins which are most profitable.
There are impact with global warming related activity mining but there are not banning activity mining all of countries.

there was a documentary on youtube where a big farm wa talking about how they are near a big dam and can have a better contract than other place, with very cheap electricity

obviously not all of them use green energy but some yes, and remember that not all chinese farm are in china, they have different dislocation

Reminds me of an article I read a couple of weeks ago regarding certain Venezuelan miners who used government subsidized electricity illegally. A big part of Venezuela’s electricity is being paid by the government, so naturally some took advantage of the rates, but eventually got arrested. All these electricity being consumed by these high powered computers are going to add up to the ever increasing demand for power which in turn makes the price of electricity even more expensive.

The growing need for power (not only from bitcoin ofcourse) is actually a stimulation to study new and more durable ways to generate power. Without consumption, this research would not be possible, as other alternatives would be cheaper.

Electricity prices are not going to be more expensive because it is used more, instead, new methods of generating power (as you now see with windmills, solar power, water power, etc) are going to be increasingly used to offset this.

as you had mentioned that to make bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies it requires lot of electricity and other resources so you are right at a point that it really consumes lot of resource and we should care to minimize the consumption by implementing other method of mining and previously i thought its a good deed but now i realize the its against our motive that is 'go green'

Few months ago I asked similar questions but my post was deleted but now I understand that in order for bitcoin price to rise we need to obtain them by doing the hard work which is mining and consuming electricity, all the heat generated by miners is nothing compare to what countries are doing.

Bitcoin Mining requires really a HUGE amount of electricity(because your PC is going to work for 24/7), time, and expensive hardware, and yes, Electrical consumption causes global warming, because of its process on how we get the electricity, technically, in order to produce electricity, we need so many processes like using a machine or a generator to produce electricity, so this generators requires something to run. For example is coal and oil, and this two materials will emits a large smoke from the machine and this will cause Global Warming to us.

But since that we need electricity on our everyday lives, the only thing that we can do is to have self-discipline on how we are using electricity, and we can't avoid to have Global Warming here in our earth by just only a few of us that will stop doing things that causes Global Warming. It should all of us, all around the world, and invent something that will erase this global Warming here in this planet.

Nope, mining won't stop because mining is needed to push blocks for the confirmation of transaction.  After the last halving one century from now, the block reward will be zero and the only reward for miners will be the transaction fee that was speculated to be enough because of the global adoption and relative price of Bitcoin that time.

I don't really think that miners have much choice in this respect

They are likely using electricity which they have access to, so it is not up to them to decide but electricity suppliers. If given such a choice, they might have actually chosen to use greener sources (not all of them, of course), but in most case they don't have this choice. They plug in their equipment into an already existing power grid and that's basically all. Regarding electricity costs, these depend not only on specific source as such but also on a lot of other factors, e.g. distance

We need to invest to generate electricity using alternative energy sources. So you have to pay a lot of money at the beginning to get the electricity that a good mining facility needs.

Of course it may make sense to think about a long term investment.