Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Pools => Topic started by: Multipool on June 16, 2011, 06:22:41 PM



Title: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 16, 2011, 06:22:41 PM
I am pleased to announce Multipool - the pool mining pool.

EDIT: Multipool is down for the meantime due to VPS problems. Use source code at github (https://github.com/multipool/Multipool) to run your own multipool locally!

---

Connect your miners to multipool.hpc.tw:8337. Use your bitcoin address as username and anything as password. The pool will request work from other mining pools and transparently forward it to you. If any mining pools go offline or experience delays due to overloading/DoS, Multipool will switch automatically to alternative pools. Multipool keeps track of how many shares each user contributes to each pool in each round. When the pools send bitcoin rewards to Multipool, each user's balance is increased in proportion to their contribution in the rounds that are paid for.

Multipool will pay out user balances once a day as long as the balance is above 0.25BTC, or one week after the last share submitted as long as the balance is above 0.10BTC. Users can keep track of their shares, earnings, and payouts by going to multipool.hpc.tw/user/***bitcoin-address***. These stats pages displays the shares received by Multipool, the earnings confirmed by the pools, the bitcoin rewards actually collected by Multipool, and the bitcoin rewards paid out to users. The shares counts are those for confirmed rounds only - pending rounds are not summed. Multipool can only pay rewards it has actually collected; therefore it takes more time to receive the rewards - they have to be confirmed by the pools (some have 120 block confirmation intervals), paid out by the pools, confirmed by Multipool (10 block confirmation), and paid out by Multipool.

Multipool implements pool-hopping-strategy to achieve greatest mining efficiency for Multipool users. The stats page displays the expected utility for each pool for each round based on the Multipool prediction algorithms, and the actual efficiency (in comparison to solo mining) after the necessary stats data becomes available. The stats page also displays the overall user efficiency, based on all the pools combined.

Multipool charges 5% fee on any earnings above 100% efficiency. Multipool also pays pool fees, including optional ones. So for example, if Multipool earns 1.60 BTC in a round in a pool with 2.5% fee by forwarding shares with an expected solo utility of 1.00 BTC (a round with 160% efficiency), Multipool will pay a 0.04 BTC fee to the pool, collect 1.56 BTC reward, keep 0.028 BTC fee for itself, and distribute 1.532 BTC to the users.

I expect pool-hopping may be controversial, but it has become necessary to make this issue public to better secure the bitcoin mining community. There are known (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=4787.0) ways (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9928.msg157040#msg157040) to implement a provably secure and fair pool payment algorithm. On the other hand, there are many (http://mining.bitcoin.cz/) other (http://deepbit.net/) ways (http://bitcoinpool.com) that are not secure, despite claims to the contrary. The pool operators and users that deny any perceived insecurities within their chosen system (and critique the alternatives as being "unfair"), and their lackluster attempts to patch up the holes are an unending source of hilarity. Yet reality is not that what we believe in, even if we believe that believing in something makes it real. Pool hopping is very possible and very much effective, as any user of Multipool will find out. While hopping is not very rampant in the wild, it is happening (as the public pool stats will show to the right person), and denying it or implementing patchwork defenses without trying to understand the root of the problem will not make it go away. And this isn't even a problem that cannot be solved - the solutions are right there, available for anyone to use. Even though I am hurting my own pool-hopping operation by publicly advocating algorithms that will make it impossible, it is my hope that using Multipool to draw attention to the issue will finally put enough pressure on pool operators to resolve the problem on their end, rather than sweep it out of sight. Doing so will be more fair for all the other bitcoin miners who currently neither have the choice of a secure and fair pool (with one exception), nor have the knowledge necessary to implement pool hopping on their own.

I've had lots of fun putting this pool together. The task of mining many pools is proportionally more difficult than implementing just a single mining pool. There is a lot of screen scrapping going on and I cannot guarantee error-free operation, though I've taken precautions to the best of my ability to ensure accurate operations. Likewise, I cannot guarantee all payments if pool operators decide to start banning accounts. However, only the uncollected amounts in the pool accounts are at risk at any point, and if the pool operators do decide to go on banning sprees rather than solving the problem outright, I will have lots more fun implementing avoidance measures.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: nhodges on June 16, 2011, 08:24:46 PM
Awesome, do you have any sample hashes of users/completed blocks we can see via the lookup @ multipool.hpc.tw:80? I'm anxious to try out this pool tonight!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 17, 2011, 01:46:16 AM
Yes! See a sample page here: http://multipool.hpc.tw/user/15iiHfHA3kaEjeBSNKphQoQWuiUHR7Decs (http://multipool.hpc.tw/user/15iiHfHA3kaEjeBSNKphQoQWuiUHR7Decs) I've started a fresh database today, so it will take about 12 hours for current rounds to go from pending to earned to collected status. Also could you tell me if the page cuts off half way through - I'm trying to whip the webserver into shape - I have a suspicion  the FIN packets arrive before the PSH packets when connecting over large distances - but I'm not sure whether this is actually a problem.

Edit:
Fixed truncated stats pages problem.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: enmaku on June 17, 2011, 02:29:25 AM
Sending ~190 MH/s your way for a while to test. If I like what I see, I'll send the other 2.8 GH/s your way too  ;D

Edit: wow, that didn't take long...
"Listener for "gpu1 (multi)": 16/06/2011 19:30:00, Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC"


Edit 2: Back up now, seems like I just caught you in the middle of a reboot or something :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 17, 2011, 06:20:36 AM
"Listener for "gpu1 (multi)": 16/06/2011 19:30:00, Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC"
Edit 2: Back up now, seems like I just caught you in the middle of a reboot or something :)

That's the failover system in action! Pools have been going on and off line all the time for the past week. Right now, for example, both slush and deepbit are down. For now, I have decreased the leniency for pool errors to decrease downtime durations (it is still more profitable though to mine in a pool with high connection errors and high expected utility, rather than one with no errors and low utility), but will continue to tweak the criteria and will implement round-robin fail-overs for zero downtime.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: urtur on June 17, 2011, 06:48:54 AM
If any mining pools go offline or experience delays due to overloading/DoS, Multipool will switch automatically to alternative pools.

... unless Multipool itself gets DDoSed.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 17, 2011, 06:56:32 AM
... unless Multipool itself gets DDoSed.

I am afraid to think about what would happen if I point Multipool at Multipool's listen socket...  :o


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: M4v3R on June 17, 2011, 06:57:53 AM
You have my 1GH/s. It's not much, but we'll see how it goes ;).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: urtur on June 17, 2011, 06:58:36 AM
I am afraid to think about what would happen if I point Multipool at Multipool's listen socket...  :o
I'd call it SelfDoS.  ;D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Freakin on June 17, 2011, 07:13:02 AM
quite impressive! 


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: M4v3R on June 17, 2011, 07:15:07 AM
I'm getting many of these (http://db.tt/hci35tq) after a while.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: BombaUcigasa on June 17, 2011, 09:34:46 AM
Glad someone did this, if anyone else starts a new pool, follow this guy's design so you get stable returns up to 300Ghash/s. Looking forward to meta-multi-pool pools.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: klaaster on June 17, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Sounds interesting, I'll give it a try.

I'm getting many of these (http://db.tt/hci35tq) after a while.

Try to set the flag -q 3, -q 4 , or -q 5 to avoid running out of work. Worked for me on Eligius.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Artefact2 on June 17, 2011, 12:12:23 PM
Don't even bother. If this pool gets big any time, it won't be long until the exploited pools IP-ban the meta pool.

Also, by contributing to this pool, you are ruining the network's security, as massive pool hopping inevitably leads to everyone hopping to the same pool at the same time, creating one giant überpool that is waay over the 50% "safe limit".


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: saadtariq30 on June 17, 2011, 12:14:16 PM
... unless Multipool itself gets DDoSed.

I am afraid to think about what would happen if I point Multipool at Multipool's listen socket...  :o

POOL WITHIN A POOL!! POOLCEPTION!!

sorry couldnt help it


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 17, 2011, 12:31:56 PM
even without the pool hopping algo it would provide excellent failover. Maybe it will still be around to provide that when pool hopping is dead.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Artefact2 on June 17, 2011, 12:38:48 PM
even without the pool hopping algo the would provide excellent failover. Maybe it will still be around to provide that when pool hopping is dead.

It looks like it's a nice fail-over, yeah, but in reality it's just another additional point of failure. You're way better running two miners on two different pools locally (with different priorities, of course).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 17, 2011, 01:54:16 PM
Don't even bother. If this pool gets big any time, it won't be long until the exploited pools IP-ban the meta pool.

There could be ways around this, such as requesting just a few getworks from different IPs, a small helper program that constantly asks for a few getworks and sends them to the metapool... should be easy to set up and not too hard to find a few "mirrors/nodes" for that. I would happily contribute until all pools finally agree that pool hopping is not a crime but something that is THEIR OWN FAULT!

Also if this pool really gets banned and fought big time instead of solving the issue of pool hopping instead, I hope Multipool just releases the code, so anyone can run it locally in private. ::) (Edit: Just like any other pool hopper currently does!)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: dinox on June 17, 2011, 03:02:25 PM
Multipool implements pool-hopping-strategy to achieve greatest mining efficiency for Multipool users.
This was just a matter of time. Goodbye proportional-pools!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 17, 2011, 04:14:37 PM
Multipool also pays pool fees, including optional ones.
This would mean you donate 2.5% to BTCguild - why are shares then not immediately confirmed?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: TeaRex on June 17, 2011, 08:33:39 PM
I've tried your pool with part of my computing power for about 24 hours now. Question: do you have an idea how long it takes before you start collecting anything? Cause I'm still at 0.000 collected right now. Thank you!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: BombaUcigasa on June 17, 2011, 08:41:42 PM
What happens if you put your pool in the list of pools for your pool to pool in?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 17, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
He would create a loop... but why should he do that in the first place?! ::)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 18, 2011, 09:15:36 AM
First payouts are out!

Question: do you have an idea how long it takes before you start collecting anything?
Multipool has to wait until it collects the rewards from the pools. Since there are many pools with work split approximately evenly between them, it takes that much more time to cross the pools' automatic payout threshold. Although now, with more people, collections should speed up.

This would mean you donate 2.5% to BTCguild - why are shares then not immediately confirmed?
I'm making sure that screen scrapping is working adequately. Once I'm satisfied, I will include the confirmation-pending rounds as well. You do get paid for invalid rounds, as long as they've reached the head of the confirmed queue.

I'm getting many of these (http://db.tt/hci35tq) after a while.
The server handles requests fine, but some of the pools are running pretty slow sometimes, and the work queue wasn't getting replenished fast enough, even with multiple request threads. Been tweaking this a bit, and have more ideas for improvements for later.

Also, by contributing to this pool, you are ruining the network's security, as massive pool hopping inevitably leads to everyone hopping to the same pool at the same time, creating one giant überpool that is waay over the 50% "safe limit".
Actually, the equilibrium situation where all miners are perfectly rational (and the pools continue to use shares method) is quite different. It makes sense to jump at 43% point into a round only if everyone else continues to mine at the same rate. If you know everyone would jump at 43% point, you will have to jump earlier to maintain >100% efficiency, but then everyone else would jump earlier as well! In the 100% rational limit, no one would ever join a shares-based pool. Pool mining will become impossible and everyone will go back to solo mining again! In the real world, where only 5% of people are rational, I adjust accordingly.

There could be ways around this, such as requesting just a few getworks from different IPs, a small helper program that constantly asks for a few getworks and sends them to the metapool... should be easy to set up and not too hard to find a few "mirrors/nodes" for that. I would happily contribute until all pools finally agree that pool hopping is not a crime but something that is THEIR OWN FAULT!

Also if this pool really gets banned and fought big time instead of solving the issue of pool hopping instead, I hope Multipool just releases the code, so anyone can run it locally in private. ::) (Edit: Just like any other pool hopper currently does!)
All great ideas! If ip banning does get out of control, I can release a small proxy script for the miners to use to relay Multipool traffic. And if I do grow tired of being a pool tycoon and the mining pools still haven't implemented fair algorithms, I will release the source code, so that anyone can run their own metapool.

even without the pool hopping algo the would provide excellent failover. Maybe it will still be around to provide that when pool hopping is dead.
It looks like it's a nice fail-over, yeah, but in reality it's just another additional point of failure. You're way better running two miners on two different pools locally (with different priorities, of course).
A pretty valid concern. If a person is in search of better uptime, they select the pool with the highest reliability. Multipool would at best only be as good as its own uptime. I would've just released the code outright, but there are already pool mining proxy programs available, and this is just too much fun.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 18, 2011, 09:42:05 AM
Quote
If a person is in search of better uptime, they select the pool with the highest reliability. Multipool would at best only be as good as its own uptime

True, but in order to be a ddos target you have to be big. Because you're mining big pools, but don't need to be big yourself, you aren't a ddos target. Well, not for that reason anyway.

You retain the low variability advantage of the big pools, without the ddos disadvantage of being a big target. If you weren't pool hopping at all, you might not ever face being a target - unless your subscriber base got too big.

Regardless, until people start taking pool hopping seriously and start to target you, I'd expect you to have better uptime than any of the large pools.

BTW I gave the pool a spin, and got efficiency of 1.4 - so it works, all you doubters! And *sigh* yes, it works, all you who knew it would and fear the worst.

Multipool, a quick fyi - I notice that the results from btcmine were changing from 'pending' to being zeroed out, and then only 10 - 30 mins later showing the actual results. This was also affecting the page top stats for a while too. Screen scraping issue? Otherwise it was all simple and easy.

OK, funs over, back to eclipsemc (free plug for inaba's mine, you gotta try out the best mine with distributed servers that pool across AU, EU, and US - not separately!)

Quote
and this is just too much fun

Evil bastidge, aintcha?  ;D



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: M4v3R on June 18, 2011, 03:35:02 PM
From what I see, in my account as well as on your demo account, slush pool and BTC Mine have very low efficiencies. Maybe this is due that they are using score based calculations? Either way, if it keeps up, I'd remove them for better eff. Other than that it works as advertised :).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 18, 2011, 04:11:39 PM
Multipool, a quick fyi - I notice that the results from btcmine were changing from 'pending' to being zeroed out, and then only 10 - 30 mins later showing the actual results. This was also affecting the page top stats for a while too. Screen scraping issue? Otherwise it was all simple and easy.

Here as well, I got 2 rounds at btcmine that are rewarded with 0 out of 5 rounds that are not pending any more - and interestingly they are in between rounds with payouts:
131504   Fri Jun 17 22:35:06 2011   145   179.681   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
131499   Fri Jun 17 22:01:12 2011   622   626.707   0.01991538   0.562   0.00000000
131469   Fri Jun 17 19:02:33 2011   93   108.445   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
Hope this helps in squashing bugs! :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: luffy on June 18, 2011, 04:44:36 PM
why not connect only to 0% fee pools? they are a lot of them ;)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 18, 2011, 06:36:56 PM
Because most of them are tiny and might rather get DOSed from a massive hopping pool like this I guess.

Also reducing variance is one of the reasons here, and this is best accomplished by having as many pools as possible. The pool hopping still gives you better results than average.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 19, 2011, 12:06:19 AM
I notice that the results from btcmine were changing from 'pending' to being zeroed out, and then only 10 - 30 mins later showing the actual results. This was also affecting the page top stats for a while too. Screen scraping issue?

Here as well, I got 2 rounds at btcmine that are rewarded with 0 out of 5 rounds that are not pending any more - and interestingly they are in between rounds with payouts:
131504   Fri Jun 17 22:35:06 2011   145   179.681   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
131499   Fri Jun 17 22:01:12 2011   622   626.707   0.01991538   0.562   0.00000000
131469   Fri Jun 17 19:02:33 2011   93   108.445   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
Hope this helps in squashing bugs! :)
You are right - btcmine was the most difficult of the pools to scrape, because it does not indicate actual rewards on a per-round basis. The rounds are "earned" some time after they are "confirmed"! I've cleaned up the stats a bit (a couple of the rounds were mis-attributed), see if these are any better. However, there will always be rounds with very low or even zero rewards in score-based pools, because they have very high variability. Imagine: due to the exponential decay, all the shares that are worth 1.0 BTC now, will be worth only 0.00000615 BTC one hour from now - 12 decay periods later. And rounds can last for many hours...

From what I see, in my account as well as on your demo account, slush pool and BTC Mine have very low efficiencies. Maybe this is due that they are using score based calculations? Either way, if it keeps up, I'd remove them for better eff. Other than that it works as advertised :).
Again, the score-based rewards result in higher variability. The expected utility is still above 100% for most rounds. However, since the expected utility of score-based pools levels out at about 90% during long rounds, they are usually the fallback option when all the other pools are also having long rounds (and shares-based expected utility keeps dropping to zero). If this happens too often, I might even have to add a solo pool option and generate my own getworks for the miners during dry periods! :D Being the go-to fallback option, score-based pools are usually not as profitable overall (but still more profitable than their operators would like you to think). It will take more time though to see whether the actual average rewards will match my utility predictions.

why not connect only to 0% fee pools? they are a lot of them ;)
It is integral to maximize the number of pools in rotation. At many timepoints, even those with fees have higher expected utility than any other pool. If pools implement fair algorithms that make the expected utility constant throughout time, then fees will indeed play a greater role.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: irishmick on June 19, 2011, 02:33:16 AM
I may have missed this, I apologize in advance if I did.

How are you computing the efficiency of improvement?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: irishmick on June 19, 2011, 02:54:07 AM
And one more.

Why limit payouts after a week of inactivity to .10 min.

If I quit your service and have only given .09 btc of service I've inadvertently gifted you 1.50+(more ATM) ....... WTF????

and I'm really not WTF'ing but if I was in that position, I'd be WTF'ing and more.......

EDIT:
changed .10 max to .10 min


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 19, 2011, 10:20:36 AM
There where connection issues the last 9 minutes. You just working on your pool?

BTW thank you for your pool. I really like it.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: wachtwoord on June 19, 2011, 02:09:14 PM
I don't really understand the statistics :P

Shares   1455
Shares (pending)   3841
Utility   1927.513
Earned   0.08262282
Efficiency   0.996
Collected   0.00719988
Paid   0.00000000
Date   Sun Jun 19 14:07:13 2011

I submitted 1455 (confirmed) shares with a utility of 1927.513. Shouldn't my efficiency then be: 1927.513/1455 = 1.324 instead of 0.996?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 19, 2011, 09:36:33 PM
Utility seems to me more like an internal scoring method which pool is good to jump into than some "useful" value to caluculate with for people who don't know the inner algorithm.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 19, 2011, 10:20:41 PM
Hey Multipool

Just thought you might like to know that http://multipool.hpc.tw (including the user stats sub-d) is blocked by "Websense" at my work. None of the other bitcoin sites are. How the hell did you manage to piss them off?  ???


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: wachtwoord on June 19, 2011, 11:16:23 PM
1. The pool is down (went down 5 minutes ago)
2. If efficiency actuallty means efficiency it is not doing too well    0.864 over    3137 shares.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 20, 2011, 12:37:12 AM
Aye, the pool was down :(. With all these users, the pool decided that the getwork response rates for the pool it was requesting work from wasn't fast enough, temporarily banned it, and switched to another pool. But the rates still weren't good enough, so it banned all the pools in succession. I've reset the ban counter and will figure out how to get work faster.

Just thought you might like to know that http://multipool.hpc.tw (including the user stats sub-d) is blocked by "Websense" at my work. None of the other bitcoin sites are. How the hell did you manage to piss them off?  ???
It is a third-level domain registrar, so some of the other subdomains might have been blacklisted.

I don't really understand the statistics :P
Utility seems to me more like an internal scoring method which pool is good to jump into than some "useful" value to caluculate with for people who don't know the inner algorithm.
That's right: the utility is my prediction for the expected utility of each share submitted. A single solo share has utility of 1, but utility of pool shares fluctuates widely. For the stats pages, utility is summed for each round, pool, and user. If your utility is greater than the number of shares, you are predicted to be doing better than solo mining. Efficiency is the ratio of the actual rewards allotted by the pools to the expected rewards of solo mining. In the long term, the ratio of the total utility to total shares should equal the total efficiency, assuming the prediction formulas are accurate.
How are you computing the efficiency of improvement?
There are slightly different formulas for different pools. Some you can figure out on your own, others are more clever.

Why limit payouts after a week of inactivity to .10 min.
If I quit your service and have only given .09 btc of service I've inadvertently gifted you 1.50+(more ATM) ....... WTF????
EDIT:
changed .10 max to .10 min

That's .10 min, not .10 max. If you have 1.50 left, you get 1.50 out. The limit is there because there is no registration for the pool. You don't want someone making up a hundred thousand bitcoin accounts, submitting a hundred thousand shares (each worth 0.00005702 BTC), and costing the pool 50 BTC in fees to pay out 5.702 BTC in rewards.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: irishmick on June 20, 2011, 12:58:40 AM

That's .10 min, not .10 max. If you have 1.50 left, you get 1.50 out. The limit is there because there is no registration for the pool. You don't want someone making up a hundred thousand bitcoin accounts, submitting a hundred thousand shares (each worth 0.00005702 BTC), and costing the pool 50 BTC in fees to pay out 5.702 BTC in rewards.

I nor anyone else would want the pool to incur those fees. Wouldn't it work to have minimum payout be .01 BTC after say 3 days inactivity and if the balance due is < .25 then the receiver pays the transaction fee out of their BTC due balance?


How are you computing the efficiency of improvement?
There are slightly different formulas for different pools. Some you can figure out on your own, others are more clever.

Seeing as the 5% fees are directly tied to your efficiency algorithms doesn't it make sense to disclose what those fees are based upon?

I realize you have a right to make some bitcoins off of your time and hardware. I am not disputing that. I'm just trying to understand when and how those 5% instances are determined.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 20, 2011, 03:01:25 AM
Quote
It is a third-level domain registrar, so some of the other subdomains might have been blacklisted.

Any chance of a mirror? Doing data analysis but need more data than I can email myself from my nexus one. Or a JSON API? Little things, don't worry about it if you're flat chat.

Cheers.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Miner-TE on June 20, 2011, 03:52:59 AM
Hey Multipool

Just thought you might like to know that http://multipool.hpc.tw (including the user stats sub-d) is blocked by "Websense" at my work. None of the other bitcoin sites are. How the hell did you manage to piss them off?  ???

Yes, I just checked and suggested a category change.  If accepted, the you should be able to access it within 24hrs (after your work gets the DB update). 

For the record, It was classified as...

http://multipool.hpc.tw/

Master Database v7.x:
   
Games
   
Master Database v6.x:
   
Uncategorized
Real-time Category:
   
Games
     


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 20, 2011, 04:33:40 AM
This is very interesting. I'll probably join.

You should target Continuum pool if all other pools are dry. It always has 100% efficiency like solo, without all the variance. It will also help reduce the variance of those who mine on it normally, further promoting fair scoring methods.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 20, 2011, 04:55:37 AM
I'm trying this pool out

instead of trying to block it, why don't pool operators get rid of the exploit in the first place?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 20, 2011, 05:55:59 AM
instead of trying to block it, why don't pool operators get rid of the exploit in the first place?
You'll have to ask them, but in my experience: Because acknowledging the exploit means admitting they were wrong to start a proportional pool, which is too difficult emotionally.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 20, 2011, 07:40:42 AM
By the way, why is Eligius on the list? Didn't they switch to maximum PPS to be safe from pool hopping?
According to http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Maximum_PPS this is only a planned feature.

And "maximum PPS" is stupid, it will leave miners without payment for days or weeks during periods of bad luck - the variance is much higher than in other methods. Why can't people use a working method like those mentioned in the original post of this thread?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Coaster on June 20, 2011, 08:19:25 AM
I'll send over 3Gh/s your way. After a few hours tonight, I'll prolly send it intermittently during the day and then compare it to recent DeepBit & BTCGuild PPSS(pay-per-share-submitted) earnings I've recorded. This sounds really promising though. So far with only 600 shares submitted I have 1 share rejected, which is very good by any means.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 20, 2011, 08:22:38 AM
my bitcoin address changed, should I just keep using the old one?

I didn't really use any other pools of this kind that don't have "accounts" or whatever


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 20, 2011, 08:27:53 AM
my bitcoin address changed, should I just keep using the old one?

I didn't really use any other pools of this kind that don't have "accounts" or whatever
The client will automatically generate new addresses for you. You can keep using your older address.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 20, 2011, 09:55:40 AM
I'll send over 3Gh/s your way. After a few hours tonight, I'll prolly send it intermittently during the day and then compare it to recent DeepBit & BTCGuild PPSS(pay-per-share-submitted) earnings I've recorded. This sounds really promising though. So far with only 600 shares submitted I have 1 share rejected, which is very good by any means.

If you just did it tonight, you cant judge it now. What Utility shows is not what you get and most data from tonight is still pending yet.

i started on saturday and with an unexpected break of 8 hours on the night to sunday and some time on another pool yesterday while this one was down are on it.

Its not bad, but not really a big win yet, so give it some time and judge when you have real earings.

Greetings



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 20, 2011, 10:52:35 AM
Hey Multipool

Just thought you might like to know that http://multipool.hpc.tw (including the user stats sub-d) is blocked by "Websense" at my work. None of the other bitcoin sites are. How the hell did you manage to piss them off?  ???

Yes, I just checked and suggested a category change.  If accepted, the you should be able to access it within 24hrs (after your work gets the DB update).  

For the record, It was classified as...

http://multipool.hpc.tw/

Master Database v7.x:
   
Games
   
Master Database v6.x:
   
Uncategorized
Real-time Category:
   
Games
     


Worked! Thanks for that Miner-TE. Now I can spend my work hours fitting curves to data. Oh, wait ..... ;D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 20, 2011, 10:57:40 AM
The pool seems down again, for more then 20 minutes right now.



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 20, 2011, 11:22:45 AM
The pool seems down again, for more then 20 minutes right now.



Don't worry - it'll give your "shares" a chance to catch up with your "pending"  :)

Have you got multiple miners set for each GPU for fail over? If you do then they'll mine Multi when it comes back online.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 20, 2011, 11:44:05 AM
The pool seems down again, for more then 20 minutes right now.



Don't worry - it'll give your "shares" a chance to catch up with your "pending"  :)

Have you got multiple miners set for each GPU for fail over? If you do then they'll mine Multi when it comes back online.

Last night i had but not yet. I am mining on 2 gameingpcs with got one card each, so its a bit different for me, i am not talking about GPUs and not on 24/7. For one of those i need a simple solution where everything can reseted (shut down miners, overclockings, fan speeds) with one click. Today i will install some remotecontroll to be prepared next time.



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 20, 2011, 12:12:03 PM
Does the pool also implement the Lie-in-Wait attack, discussed for example here (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6577.0)?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 20, 2011, 12:19:01 PM
Does the pool also implement the Lie-in-Wait attack, discussed for example here (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6577.0)?
I'm not sure how useful this attack would be in a big pool and a small pool might even be DOSed by dozens of GH/s dropping in for let's say 1 minute or 30 seconds and then submitting a winning share.

You might get more by blackmailing PPS pools threatening to withhold winning shares - you just need more mining power than they charge as fee! ;D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 20, 2011, 03:04:09 PM
Lie-in-Wait is probably(?) most (only?) effective on score-based pools like slush's. At least that's the only scenario I've thought about before (not knowing this was already discussed). But this has probably been discussed already.

Judging from what is listed on the example stats page (http://multipool.hpc.tw/user/15iiHfHA3kaEjeBSNKphQoQWuiUHR7Decs), BTC Mine and Slush have pretty poor efficiency. Their score-based reward system seems to work as expected. Or maybe the multi pool implementation is not perfect yet. Now, if this pool introduced Lie-in-Wait, things might change a little.

It's an interesting project!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 20, 2011, 03:27:12 PM
Lie-in-wait is anyways only useful for pool hopping pools like this one here, as otherwise the chace of finding a valid hash is so small, that the extra computations required to see IF a solution would be a winning solution might not really justify the results.

Here still a lot of extra computations would be needed, but at least there's a chance that really someone finds a solution within 1 week or so, depending on the hopping pool size.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: wachtwoord on June 20, 2011, 05:14:30 PM
Just a heads up: the pool is down for a little over half an hour.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Coaster on June 20, 2011, 05:29:52 PM
due to the downtime I've only been able to send around 820Mh/s toward multipool.
For what it's worth, I predict it'll be more profitable than sticking to a single mining pool. My utility is 167 + my efficiency is just over 1


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 20, 2011, 07:28:16 PM
due to the downtime I've only been able to send around 820Mh/s toward multipool.
For what it's worth, I predict it'll be more profitable than sticking to a single mining pool. My utility is 167 + my efficiency is just over 1
you run bad, mine is 1.77


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 20, 2011, 08:44:49 PM
With how many shares?

I have ~18000 shares confirmed and an efficiency of 1.054

Unfortunately I cannot say if this is really true/good because of a few downtime-hiccups, so I canont say how long exactly I mined in the past 24 hours with which hash rate to give a really precise answer if this is above or below expected values


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 20, 2011, 08:47:36 PM
I've been testing this pool for some time now and wondering how it figures out which pool to use for getting work.

As it seems, eligius-eu has found a block about 30 minutes ago, so it should be quite profitable to mine there now. However my stats page shows that so far only 28 of my shares have been submitted to eligius-eu in their current round, while I did probably mine ~100 shares total in 30 minutes. It is to my surprise that 5 shares have been sent to BTC Guild, even though they are on a 2:20h round, and 67 to btcmine with a score-based reward, giving only 60 utility for those 67 shares (while the 28 eligius shares are 72 utility).  (I just noticed that these 3 numbers sum up to 100 indeed, while my original 100 was just an estimate based on my hashrate. hah! ;) )

If I attempted to write a pool hopping software, I'd guess that this is a bug in my code. Or why should the majority of shares go to a score based pool when I am certain that eligius has found a block just a few minutes ago and is probably well below 43% of difficulty? Maybe it's because eligius can't answer getwork requests fast enough?

Update: Sure enough, that eligius-eu round ended 40 mins after it started, giving a 4.498 efficiency. I only had 36 shares sent into that eligius round, while in the same time span I sent 98 to btcmine. I'm not sure that this works as good as it is supposed to. Or am I getting it totally wrong? ???


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 20, 2011, 08:51:48 PM
i got 5600 confirmed shares and stay way lower then 1.77. I wonder how someone would have got 1.77. I assume, saturday was a bad day because there where just 2 pools involved. But 1.77 sounds high. I am right that all user Switch pools at the same time (after finished their last share on one pool)?

Moreover there where more downtimes and the risk about multipool get banned from other poos and the pending shares a lost. For this, i cant see any real win yet, letz see what happens the next 24 hours.

Greetings
Mike


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 20, 2011, 08:56:09 PM
With how many shares?

I have ~18000 shares confirmed and an efficiency of 1.054

Unfortunately I cannot say if this is really true/good because of a few downtime-hiccups, so I canont say how long exactly I mined in the past 24 hours with which hash rate to give a really precise answer if this is above or below expected values
oh, way way less I only mined for a day and most of these are not confirmed so apparently I run good

I sent some shares to eligius and it was really low efficiency so I'm down to 1.388


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Coaster on June 20, 2011, 09:02:21 PM
Shares   367
Shares (pending)   1774
Utility   618.643
Earned   0.05420515
Efficiency   2.590
I have fairly high hopes


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 20, 2011, 09:16:26 PM
From what I understood of Raulo's paper (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but efficiency should tend toward 1.28 for proportional pools. I'm not sure how score based pools affect this, since both slush and eligius have decay and eligius is on 2.5 for me, but slush only 0.9. But at a guess, the long term efficiency shouldn't be too different from 1.28.

Anyway:

Shares (pending)   39760
Utility   42376.960
Earned   2.32727847
Efficiency   1.233
Collected   1.79975253
Paid   0.65212834

Last pay was two days ago. So I'm looking forward to that next pay Multipool.....


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 20, 2011, 09:56:59 PM
As far as I understood it, you could get 1.28 on each pool - so in 2 pools it should be even higher...

It went up to 106.7% for me btw. - seems to still fluctuate quite a bit  even with this sample size :o


Also looking forward to the next payment! *cough*


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: valtiel on June 20, 2011, 10:24:18 PM
im curious. youuc an point multiple miners using the same bitcoin waller address?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 20, 2011, 10:54:39 PM
Of course you can. Their stats will be combined then though.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 21, 2011, 01:45:10 AM
How did I get 0 from BTCMine?

132026   Mon Jun 20 09:00:12 2011   136   124.482   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

is it possible to receive exactly 0?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 21, 2011, 02:06:22 AM
How did I get 0 from BTCMine?

132026   Mon Jun 20 09:00:12 2011   136   124.482   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

is it possible to receive exactly 0?

Explained here:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17970.msg240413#msg240413



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 21, 2011, 04:02:04 AM
How did I get 0 from BTCMine?

132026   Mon Jun 20 09:00:12 2011   136   124.482   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

is it possible to receive exactly 0?

Explained here:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17970.msg240413#msg240413


yeah but the next couple of blocks have 39 efficiency (probably getting rewarded for earlier blocks), and I'm getting charged a fee on them, while the ones that have "0" I don't get my fee back
so in this way I'm getting overcharged since the fee is per sequence of blocks, NOT on the total

I have 1.4 efficiency, but I'm not getting charged 5% fee on the 40%, I'm getting charged 5% fee on like the 80% of blocks and the ones that have 60% (or even 0%) efficiency don't give the fee back
am I misunderstanding this or is this the case?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 21, 2011, 05:33:56 AM
I have 1.4 efficiency, but I'm not getting charged 5% fee on the 40%, I'm getting charged 5% fee on like the 80% of blocks and the ones that have 60% (or even 0%) efficiency don't give the fee back
am I misunderstanding this or is this the case?

Yeah, I also understand it like that. If we'd get a negative fee for <0% efficiency shares, that could ruin Multipool if the pool hopping no longer works. ;D He/She could change it to a combined fee when paying out, depending on the efficiency since the last payout. That fee would probably be higher than 5%.

After all, I'm not so sure that mining at multipool actually results in a higher payout than simply mining at a standard pool. (But pool hopping does work.)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 21, 2011, 05:42:05 AM
Finished a major overhaul of the getwork module to combat all the outages the pool has been experiencing. Getworks are now completely de-threaded and parallelized: the queue gets filled continuously by all the pools, in order of preference (no getworks are wasted, but more are obtained from higher-preference pools whenever possible). The quality-of-service checks have been changed accordingly so that Multipool should no longer manage to ban all the pools it mines from for insufficient responsiveness. As a final fallback, the pool now generates its own work a-la solo mining. Haven't yet decided which reward system to use for the solo shares :D.

All this effort to manage workloads has unfortunately detracted me from the more profitable pool additions - more pool scrapping. As it is, Multipool is being squeezed tight by being forced to avoid zealous automatic DoS defenses, and is really only mining at full strength from half of the pools in the current rotation. More pools in rotation will certainly help things move along. Efficiency has been somewhat lacking lately in comparison to what could be achieved.
You should target Continuum pool if all other pools are dry. It always has 100% efficiency like solo, without all the variance. It will also help reduce the variance of those who mine on it normally, further promoting fair scoring methods.
Continuum pool would definitely be a great addition!

Does the pool also implement the Lie-in-Wait attack, discussed for example here (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6577.0)?
That's even too devious for my tastes  ;D. I suspect though that the window of opportunity is narrower than one might think. The shares go stale pretty quickly, I wouldn't want to hold on to one for longer than a minute.

Sure enough, that eligius-eu round ended 40 mins after it started, giving a 4.498 efficiency. I only had 36 shares sent into that eligius round, while in the same time span I sent 98 to btcmine. I'm not sure that this works as good as it is supposed to. Or am I getting it totally wrong? ???
No, you are right. The reason is that Multipool has been constrained by the rate of getwork requests it can wrest from the pools. At times, some of the pools are under a lot of load and have latencies above 0.5s, ten times the normal rate. With the new parallelized getwork module, the pool should now be able to grab all the shares possible.

As for the fees, honestly, they should really be calculated based off the total efficiency, not for individual rounds. I don't want to just skim off natural variance. The difficulty with that was that since total efficiency varies, the total collected fee could go up or down at any time, and I didn't want to deal with that. Once I have the time, I'll whip up a better fee calculator.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 21, 2011, 06:47:01 AM
I can see you're having a lot of fun with this. ;) I like it!

BTW, I just got my first payout.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 21, 2011, 07:35:01 AM
I have 1.4 efficiency, but I'm not getting charged 5% fee on the 40%, I'm getting charged 5% fee on like the 80% of blocks and the ones that have 60% (or even 0%) efficiency don't give the fee back
am I misunderstanding this or is this the case?

Yeah, I also understand it like that. If we'd get a negative fee for <0% efficiency shares, that could ruin Multipool if the pool hopping no longer works. ;D He/She could change it to a combined fee when paying out, depending on the efficiency since the last payout. That fee would probably be higher than 5%.

After all, I'm not so sure that mining at multipool actually results in a higher payout than simply mining at a standard pool. (But pool hopping does work.)

no, what I'm saying it should charge a fee based on the total additional bitcoins
charge that fee every time the person cashes out

my earned is right now 0.06851642 and I paid 0.00136617 in fees which is a total of 2% overall and my efficiency is 1.148 so that means I'm paying 1/7 of my supposed profit to the pool itself

Also: instead of solo, why not join a pool that cannot be exploited, but just to give the miner a fair share?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 21, 2011, 09:41:38 AM
Also: instead of solo, why not join a pool that cannot be exploited, but just to give the miner a fair share?
Because that would get you banned on that pool for DOSing.

I don't have stats for Multipool, but I guess since it can be more efficient than others and is really easy to set up I expect it to be in the 50 GH/s range.

Now imagine hitting a smaller, but fair pool like Continuum every once in a while with THAT.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 21, 2011, 10:34:43 AM
Also: instead of solo, why not join a pool that cannot be exploited, but just to give the miner a fair share?
Because that would get you banned on that pool for DOSing.

I don't have stats for Multipool, but I guess since it can be more efficient than others and is really easy to set up I expect it to be in the 50 GH/s range.

Now imagine hitting a smaller, but fair pool like Continuum every once in a while with THAT.
I only solo mined 24 shares out of 2400

so it's like hitting continuum with 500mh/s :/


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 21, 2011, 11:02:01 AM
Haven't yet decided which reward system to use for the solo shares :D.
Proportional of course! 8)

It would even be really hard to hop your pool anyways, so I don't even see many issues with that.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Elokane on June 21, 2011, 12:35:10 PM
So, how does it compare to the other large and not-unfair pools after a couple of days of being on it?

BTC Guild just had one of its servers die and a 1/3rd of my computers were off mining for an hour till I manually changed to a different server. Sigh!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 21, 2011, 01:13:07 PM
So, how does it compare to the other large and not-unfair pools after a couple of days of being on it?

Right now it seems to be pulling 90%+ of getworks from BTC Guild. This is probably because their share stats are way off (saying the current round has 5k shares, while it's already taking 43mins).

When it showed correct values earlier today, and after eligius-eu found a block, only 2 of my shares were sent to eligius. So I guess the hopping is still not quite perfect. It's not that much profitable for me, but probably somewhat better than using a single pool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Elokane on June 21, 2011, 01:18:36 PM
I wonder if you're the ones who broke their server.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: techwtf on June 21, 2011, 04:28:43 PM
132174   Tue Jun 21 00:32:17 2011   246   258.809   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
132143   Mon Jun 20 21:41:42 2011   445   433.462   0.01714037   0.676   0.00000000
132128   Mon Jun 20 19:37:20 2011   185   184.074   0.02919802   2.768   0.00098159
132122   Mon Jun 20 18:46:13 2011   1   2.028   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
132116   Mon Jun 20 17:59:25 2011   636   619.802   0.00000003   0.000   0.00000000
132071   Mon Jun 20 13:05:30 2011   63   93.200   0.04334367   12.067   0.00209219
132070   Mon Jun 20 12:50:42 2011   162   159.564   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
132061   Mon Jun 20 12:00:13 2011   5   5.261   0.00057064   2.002   0.00001503
132026   Mon Jun 20 09:00:12 2011   724   692.000   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
131978   Mon Jun 20 03:53:09 2011   85   77.960   0.00702898   1.450   0.00011488
131905   Sun Jun 19 20:21:54 2011   569   550.916   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

Why so many 0.00 eff shares from btcmine... that's like 100% fee.
I dont think there are so many invalid blocks.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 21, 2011, 04:34:12 PM
BTC mine uses a score-based reward scheme to prevent pool hopping (which is a good thing).

That means all submitted shares lose their value over time. New shares are worth more while old shares are worth less. After some time, old shares are worth nothing. So 0.000000 might be correct. (Or maybe it's just a parsing problem. If that's the case, it will probably be fixed later.)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Coaster on June 21, 2011, 04:41:43 PM
132174   Tue Jun 21 00:32:17 2011   246   258.809   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
132143   Mon Jun 20 21:41:42 2011   445   433.462   0.01714037   0.676   0.00000000
132128   Mon Jun 20 19:37:20 2011   185   184.074   0.02919802   2.768   0.00098159
132122   Mon Jun 20 18:46:13 2011   1   2.028   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
132116   Mon Jun 20 17:59:25 2011   636   619.802   0.00000003   0.000   0.00000000
132071   Mon Jun 20 13:05:30 2011   63   93.200   0.04334367   12.067   0.00209219
132070   Mon Jun 20 12:50:42 2011   162   159.564   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
132061   Mon Jun 20 12:00:13 2011   5   5.261   0.00057064   2.002   0.00001503
132026   Mon Jun 20 09:00:12 2011   724   692.000   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000
131978   Mon Jun 20 03:53:09 2011   85   77.960   0.00702898   1.450   0.00011488
131905   Sun Jun 19 20:21:54 2011   569   550.916   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

Why so many 0.00 eff shares from btcmine... that's like 100% fee.
I dont think there are so many invalid blocks.
reported earlier was that btcmine's scrape of stats was not 100% working, in due time when they get paid out, you should see correct stats appear (hopefully) otherwise were gettin juked...
and heres an update for my top stats in case anyone wants to compare. I don't leave these 2 miners running multipool all day.. I run it mornings and afternoons only.
Shares   4153
Shares (pending)   5901
Utility   5015.606
Earned   0.33042518
Efficiency   1.395
Collected   0.11301604
Paid   0.00000000
Date   Tue Jun 21 16:34:19 2011


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 21, 2011, 07:16:21 PM
My Efficiency went town from 1.33 (before 12 hours) to 1.15. What means below 1 for today. I hope the btcmine data are incorrect!

I calculated my possible income on average and must say, with both pcs running 24 hours i can expect .43 Bitcoins (380 MHash/s). It feels low on multipool, but after looking to the pending stats all should be fine, but still not seeing a big win.

But i really like it reading your daily update! Keep on coding! :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 22, 2011, 03:02:58 AM
My Efficiency went town from 1.33 (before 12 hours) to 1.15. What means below 1 for today. I hope the btcmine data are incorrect!

I calculated my possible income on average and must say, with both pcs running 24 hours i can expect .43 Bitcoins (380 MHash/s). It feels low on multipool, but after looking to the pending stats all should be fine, but still not seeing a big win.

But i really like it reading your daily update! Keep on coding! :)
efficiency goes up and down depending on how fast pools reward you


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 22, 2011, 07:55:17 AM
Another set of payouts is out! Since sendmany transactions are apparently very cheap, the payout minimums have been relaxed to 0.10 BTC daily, or 0.01 BTC after 3 days of inactivity. I could probably even go down to 0.01 BTC daily next time.

Squashed a nasty little bug (wrong variable name at just the wrong place) in the last getwork module update that caused submitted shares to be re-routed to the last pool a user received work from, rather than the actual pool, leading to invalid shares. The final effect wasn't too bad though: the pools quickly fought it out with each other, until btcguild emerged victorious and served most of the shares for the rest of the day while the other pools cooled in the penalty box. With the fix, you should have seen much fewer invalid shares, and better pool rotation.

To anyone complaining about zero efficiency on btcmine - there are three reasons:
  • btcmine rounds are "debited" sometime after they are "confirmed". Efficiency will sit at zero for up to an hour until the btcmine money status page gets updated.
  • Value of shares decays exponentially. If efficiency is low but non-zero, you are probably looking at old shares in a long round.
  • The "money" page is not really synchronous with anything. Multipool makes best effort to guess which round each particular debit applies too, but it isn't perfect. I've checked manually just now, but only found one possible mistake (round 132174 didn't get "debited"). Even manually I cannot sort out how much it should have been worth.
But that's all besides the point because we are apparently banned at btcmine, and also at deepbit, bitcoinpool, and possibly slush. In all four cases it appears to have been automatic rather than intentional. Considering how much workload and DoS some of the pools have been struggling with, it may be understandable if their scripts see 20GH/s worth of requests as another DoS attack and block it. As has been predicted, Multipool is being undone by its own success ::).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Meni Rosenfeld on June 22, 2011, 08:19:45 AM
But that's all besides the point because we are apparently banned at btcmine, and also at deepbit, bitcoinpool, and possibly slush. In all four cases it appears to have been automatic rather than intentional. Considering how much workload and DoS some of the pools have been struggling with, it may be understandable if their scripts see 20GH/s worth of requests as another DoS attack and block it. As has been predicted, Multipool is being undone by its own success ::).
Can't you use several account per pool, from different IPs (using some proxy service)? And can you try to do the hopping more gentle, at the cost of some efficiency but becoming less conspicuous?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: techwtf on June 22, 2011, 08:29:40 AM
Sorry to hear that multipool is banned ... switched back to bitcoins.lc :( . Why not drop btcmine...
If a pool's efficiency always less than 0.9, even PPS in deepbit is better than that...

Pool: btcmine
Shares: 6079
Utility: 6126.203
Earned: 0.21746285
Efficiency: 0.627

~6000 shares -> 0.217 BTC...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 22, 2011, 09:01:24 AM
Why not drop btcmine...
If a pool's efficiency always less than 0.9, even PPS in deepbit is better than that...

Pool: btcmine
Shares: 6079
Utility: 6126.203
Efficiency: 0.627

We cannot drop btcmine for having lower efficiency than other pools. Being a score-based pool, it provides an important role - a baseline expected utility of about 90%. All the times you are mining in btcmine at 90% utility, all the other pools have utilities much lower than that - you would lose more by removing btcmine from rotation. Btcmine also has a very good response rate, so it often fills in extra getworks when a higher-utility pool cannot keep up. Notice that for most rounds in btcmine, the expected utility actually is just about or slightly higher than 100%. Unless you can show with statistical significance that the actual btcmine rewards, and therefore efficiency, are lower than the predicted utility, it has to stay.

An even better alternative would be a constant-utility pool like Continuum, but I am afraid whether doubling its hashrate is such a good idea. Continuum is a good fallback for solo hoppers, but we, as a pool of comparable size, would not gain much decrease in block finding variance by joining up. We would be better off generating our own getworks, which, by definition, have expected utility of 100%... Perhaps I'll increase the priority of generated getworks over pools with utilities below 100% (right now solo getworks only get used as a fallback to keep the work queue running).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 09:22:32 AM
I thought some might find this interesting. If, on the other hand you're not into chart porn, just pretend it's spam and go to the next post.

1. The first graph shows my earnings over time - quite linear, the ups and downs in efficiency you see daily are a bit misleading.

2. The second is the most interesting - the model that fits this does so with an adj R2 of 0.4 and a p-val<10^-12.
The log-log linear model:
y=3.16260-0.63700*x
Solving for unity (ie efficiency=1)
x=4.97
blocks=exp(4.97) = 143

So for BTCGuild, with me at 700Mhash/sec, more blocks than 143 accepted shares will reduce efficiency for all blocks shares for that round (ninja edit!). Interesting, but not very useful.

3. and 4. are also very interesting looking, but fairly useless. Efficiency and coins will always be higher for shorter rounds (outliers mostly due to multipool downtime). It would be nice to be able to compare what they would have been had I contributed my shares to BTCGuild normally though. So.....

Multipool, if you could give me the total shares from each pool for the block (I know, more scraping), I might be able to look at where maxima in efficiency  are for the various pools. If you can give me data for the pool as a whole, it may even be handy for you! And (I know I'm pressing my luck here) if you can give a separate url for each pool, I can automate the process (the language I use doesn't like html scraping anything other than one table at a time, and I have to edit by hand).

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4237/btcguild.png


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: techwtf on June 22, 2011, 09:25:19 AM
To get more fees, solve the problems first to boost eff :)
I'll be back later.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 09:44:59 AM
To get more fees, solve the problems first to boost eff :)
I'll be back later.

At worst, think of multipool as a zero variance pool with lower fees than deepbit. So far I've made 3.58 coins from 54824 shares. On average, you should only expect  0.000057 coins/share at current difficulty. so the expected coins from 54824 shares = 3.12 coins

expected coins: 3.12
earned coins: 3.58

So, I'm ahead by 14.7%. Even if efficiency = 1, the low variability would be my reason to stay.

What are your expected and actual earnings, techwtf?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: TeaRex on June 22, 2011, 10:50:49 AM
There seems to be a little math problem in your Webserver script at the moment.

My total utility is currently "nan" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN)) probably thanks to the fact that Utility at eligius-eu is "nan", which in turn is caused by utility for the 325 shares I submitted there (through multipool of course) for block #132521 being "nan" for whatever reason.

And let me offer a little suggestion: It would be nice if instead of "utility" you'd have "expected efficiency" (i.e. utility divided by number of submitted shares) listed on the site. That way one could compare it directly with the achieved efficiency without having to do all the divisions by hand (or rather in the Windows calculator...).

Also, is there any particular reason that bitcoinpool is listed twice?

I'm mining on Multipool under the address 1Jp9L4vkdkpFBmUWrBQcwj5rFSrmpzc19F if you need that info to check the problems yourself.

Thanks again for offering this service!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: techwtf on June 22, 2011, 10:51:38 AM
To get more fees, solve the problems first to boost eff :)
I'll be back later.

At worst, think of multipool as a zero variance pool with lower fees than deepbit. So far I've made 3.58 coins from 54824 shares. On average, you should only expect  0.000057 coins/share at current difficulty. so the expected coins from 54824 shares = 3.12 coins

expected coins: 3.12
earned coins: 3.58

So, I'm ahead by 14.7%. Even if efficiency = 1, the low variability would be my reason to stay.

What are your expected and actual earnings, techwtf?

Sure. the eff is nice & > 1 (1.086) in general. It's just ONE pool's consistent poor performance that makes me leave(& with many shares).

I'm getting ~0.55/day at the beginning of the diff change, with 400M/s(should get 0.48 with 0 fee).
My first day of multipool with 0 earning, second day 0.32, third day 0.39(all paid out amount). sure, it's becoming better. just expected no eff < 0.8 pool. Watching so many shares becomes 0 BTC is really unacceptable...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 22, 2011, 11:10:11 AM
Sure. the eff is nice & > 1 (1.086) in general. It's just ONE pool's consistent poor performance that makes me leave(& with many shares).

I'm getting ~0.55/day at the beginning of the diff change, with 400M/s(should get 0.48 with 0 fee).
My first day of multipool with 0 earning, second day 0.32, third day 0.39(all paid out amount). sure, it's becoming better. just expected no eff < 0.8 pool. Watching so many shares becomes 0 BTC is really unacceptable...

If you mine solo, every share that did not solve the block becomes 0 BTC. Scoring system have more variance than sharebased ones, not as much as solo mining but still many shares becomes worthless or almost worthless.

Seeing 400 Shares efficiency 0 is OK for me if i see 400 other shares with efficiency 2. Or 200 with efficiency 4, you know.
I think we just had 'bad luck', because its a big variance in hopping to btcmine. I am sure that will change over time. Anyway, i like the idea of this pool and just wait for news from this pool, so unless i really loss much i will stay here.

@multipool: For those bans: you going to implement the proxy for clients you talked about?
Maybe you can implement a more smooth poolchanging. Like working on the weighted 50% of the pools with better actuall utility for example. This will lower the theretical effect without bans but may perform better.

Greetings
Mike


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 11:20:38 AM
To get more fees, solve the problems first to boost eff :)
I'll be back later.

At worst, think of multipool as a zero variance pool with lower fees than deepbit. So far I've made 3.58 coins from 54824 shares. On average, you should only expect  0.000057 coins/share at current difficulty. so the expected coins from 54824 shares = 3.12 coins

expected coins: 3.12
earned coins: 3.58

So, I'm ahead by 14.7%. Even if efficiency = 1, the low variability would be my reason to stay.

What are your expected and actual earnings, techwtf?

Sure. the eff is nice & > 1 (1.086) in general. It's just ONE pool's consistent poor performance that makes me leave(& with many shares).

I'm getting ~0.55/day at the beginning of the diff change, with 400M/s(should get 0.48 with 0 fee).
My first day of multipool with 0 earning, second day 0.32, third day 0.39(all paid out amount). sure, it's becoming better. just expected no eff < 0.8 pool. Watching so many shares becomes 0 BTC is really unacceptable...

Sorry techwtf, I still don't get why you'd leave for losing some shares to btcmine - you get decaying shares at eligius-eu which zero out some rounds. But the overall efficiency for eligius-eu is ok, as is the overall efficiency for the pool.

Can you post your shares (without pending, the top number) and your earned (not collected) for all pools?  Efficiency of 1.086 is not just nice, but means you get 1.086 coins for every coin you'd earn elsewhere (averaged over quite often a loooong period of time).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 11:25:24 AM
There seems to be a little math problem in your Webserver script at the moment.

My total utility is currently "nan" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN)) probably thanks to the fact that Utility at eligius-eu is "nan", which in turn is caused by utility for the 325 shares I submitted there (through multipool of course) for block #132521 being "nan" for whatever reason.

And let me offer a little suggestion: It would be nice if instead of "utility" you'd have "expected efficiency" (i.e. utility divided by number of submitted shares) listed on the site. That way one could compare it directly with the achieved efficiency without having to do all the divisions by hand (or rather in the Windows calculator...).

Also, is there any particular reason that bitcoinpool is listed twice?

I'm mining on Multipool under the address 1Jp9L4vkdkpFBmUWrBQcwj5rFSrmpzc19F if you need that info to check the problems yourself.

Thanks again for offering this service!


NotaNumber (div by zero) just ruin everything! they're contagious and infect everything they contact.

Can anyone explain what utility is? Efficiency is how many expected shares worth of coin your actual shares get you, but I can't figure out how to relate utility to shares.  And I don't understand what TeaRex means here (no offence mate) since I don't know how you could get an "expected efficiency".


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 22, 2011, 11:52:56 AM
Why not drop btcmine...
If a pool's efficiency always less than 0.9, even PPS in deepbit is better than that...

Pool: btcmine
Shares: 6079
Utility: 6126.203
Efficiency: 0.627

We cannot drop btcmine for having lower efficiency than other pools. Being a score-based pool, it provides an important role - a baseline expected utility of about 90%. All the times you are mining in btcmine at 90% utility, all the other pools have utilities much lower than that - you would lose more by removing btcmine from rotation. Btcmine also has a very good response rate, so it often fills in extra getworks when a higher-utility pool cannot keep up. Notice that for most rounds in btcmine, the expected utility actually is just about or slightly higher than 100%. Unless you can show with statistical significance that the actual btcmine rewards, and therefore efficiency, are lower than the predicted utility, it has to stay.

An even better alternative would be a constant-utility pool like Continuum, but I am afraid whether doubling its hashrate is such a good idea. Continuum is a good fallback for solo hoppers, but we, as a pool of comparable size, would not gain much decrease in block finding variance by joining up. We would be better off generating our own getworks, which, by definition, have expected utility of 100%... Perhaps I'll increase the priority of generated getworks over pools with utilities below 100% (right now solo getworks only get used as a fallback to keep the work queue running).
just generate own getworks when utility is low, then the average utility is always high
with 20 ghash/s we should be able to solve our own block every couple of days

and of course I love the suggestion for proportional shares for the solo pool, it's so deliciously ironic


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: TeaRex on June 22, 2011, 12:43:50 PM
NotaNumber (div by zero) just ruin everything! they're contagious and infect everything they contact.

Yeah... like the big red flashing "9.999999 99" that my dad's old TI-59 programmable calculator produced on divide by zero back in the seventies; they also propagated that value and then you'd have to tediously single-step to find the culprit, instead of the code just halting with an error immediately. Nice idea in principle but it can cause no end of headaches.

Can anyone explain what utility is? Efficiency is how many expected shares worth of coin your actual shares get you, but I can't figure out how to relate utility to shares.  And I don't understand what TeaRex means here (no offence mate) since I don't know how you could get an "expected efficiency".

As far as I understand it, utility is "the number of shares your submitted shares (including pending shares) are assumed to be worth by multipool's underlying algorithm", compared to solo mining or a hypothetical proportional pool without fees, and average luck. So basically if you'd have submitted that many shares to a proportional pool at random times, and the pool had been neither lucky nor unlucky, you'd get the same amount of money as Multipool expects you to receive for the shares you actually submitted there. I hope I haven't confused you any further now...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 01:32:27 PM
NotaNumber (div by zero) just ruin everything! they're contagious and infect everything they contact.

Yeah... like the big red flashing "9.999999 99" that my dad's old TI-59 programmable calculator produced on divide by zero back in the seventies; they also propagated that value and then you'd have to tediously single-step to find the culprit, instead of the code just halting with an error immediately. Nice idea in principle but it can cause no end of headaches.

Can anyone explain what utility is? Efficiency is how many expected shares worth of coin your actual shares get you, but I can't figure out how to relate utility to shares.  And I don't understand what TeaRex means here (no offence mate) since I don't know how you could get an "expected efficiency".

As far as I understand it, utility is "the number of shares your submitted shares (including pending shares) are assumed to be worth by multipool's underlying algorithm", compared to solo mining or a hypothetical proportional pool without fees, and average luck. So basically if you'd have submitted that many shares to a proportional pool at random times, and the pool had been neither lucky nor unlucky, you'd get the same amount of money as Multipool expects you to receive for the shares you actually submitted there. I hope I haven't confused you any further now...

I get NaN's propagating through matrices all the time. Is this is just because I suck at coding, or are NaNs some sort of digital life form?  :-\

Well thx for trying to explain - but  ???

The reason for my  ??? is that I'd thought that is what "Efficiency" already represents. Eg: atm if you solo 877000 shares/blocks, or do the same at a proportional pool at "luck" multiplier = 1.0, you expect 50 coins. You can check for yourself that efficiency is calculated as (received coins/expected coins), which means it would also be (utilised shares/accepted shares). But efficiency!=utility/shares - again, you can check this with a few of your own.

I prolly have this the wrong way around, and it'd be handy for stats purposes if it relates to eg. the total shares in that block. Then (I hope to) relate results to Raulo's original paper on hopping and not just calculate hopping efficiency but predict best hopping algos for each pool.

Cheers for the help!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 01:40:03 PM
Is Multipool the "crazy miner on eligius US" who has 68% of the hashrate?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.msg264031#msg264031

(eligius US has been down for the last week, everyone is on eligius EU)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: techwtf on June 22, 2011, 02:08:16 PM
Sorry techwtf, I still don't get why you'd leave for losing some shares to btcmine - you get decaying shares at eligius-eu which zero out some rounds. But the overall efficiency for eligius-eu is ok, as is the overall efficiency for the pool.

Can you post your shares (without pending, the top number) and your earned (not collected) for all pools?  Efficiency of 1.086 is not just nice, but means you get 1.086 coins for every coin you'd earn elsewhere (averaged over quite often a loooong period of time).
Total:
Shares   18148
Earned   1.11115
Efficiency   1.074

---

I mean, even the worst case in deepbit(prop), 7-8 millions of shares goes to the 50 BTC(eff ~0.1), shares never become 0 BTC(I know there are invalid blocks, but not the case)...
I really hope, that is just a mistake.

---

Let's compare status of btcmine and multipool.

I'm not sure 132070 goes to which block, but both are confirmed in btcmine.
760   132071   06/20/2011 12:50:42    00:14:48   119823   confirmed
759   132070   06/20/2011 12:00:13    00:50:29   406284   confirmed
132070   Mon Jun 20 12:50:42 2011   162   159.564   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

Quite a long round. Zero.
761   132116   06/20/2011 13:05:30    04:53:55   2349995   confirmed
132116   Mon Jun 20 17:59:25 2011   636   619.802   0.00000003   0.000   0.00000000

Another round
766   132174   06/20/2011 21:41:43    02:50:34   1341979   confirmed
132174   Tue Jun 21 00:32:17 2011   246   258.809   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

since btcmine provides the status of the latest 25 blocks only... Is those shares really worth Zero?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: TeaRex on June 22, 2011, 02:14:54 PM
Well thx for trying to explain - but  ???

The reason for my  ??? is that I'd thought that is what "Efficiency" already represents. Eg: atm if you solo 877000 shares/blocks, or do the same at a proportional pool at "luck" multiplier = 1.0, you expect 50 coins. You can check for yourself that efficiency is calculated as (received coins/expected coins), which means it would also be (utilised shares/accepted shares). But efficiency!=utility/shares - again, you can check this with a few of your own.

I prolly have this the wrong way around, and it'd be handy for stats purposes if it relates to eg. the total shares in that block. Then (I hope to) relate results to Raulo's original paper on hopping and not just calculate hopping efficiency but predict best hopping algos for each pool.

Cheers for the help!

As I see it, utility is related to what the multipool algorithm expects the shares to be worth ahead of time, while efficiency is related to what their real worth turns out to be after the fact, once multipool knows how many coins it will actually collect for them. Confusingly the two are not expressed in the same way, one is expected total worth, while the other is real worth per share (both in relation to the average worth of one share at the current difficulty).

That's what I suggested should be changed, so that you'd have "expected worth per share" and "real worth per share" instead, allowing for a direct comparison. If the algorithm is correct, these numbers should more or less converge over time.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 22, 2011, 03:09:41 PM
As I see it, utility is related to what the multipool algorithm expects the shares to be worth ahead of time, while efficiency is related to what their real worth turns out to be after the fact, once multipool knows how many coins it will actually collect for them. Confusingly the two are not expressed in the same way, one is expected total worth, while the other is real worth per share (both in relation to the average worth of one share at the current difficulty).

That's what I suggested should be changed, so that you'd have "expected worth per share" and "real worth per share" instead, allowing for a direct comparison. If the algorithm is correct, these numbers should more or less converge over time.


Ah, I think I get it. So any idea what it's based on? I see a correlation between efficiency and utility/shares, but it's not linear and I'm not sure what it means.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Oldminer on June 22, 2011, 08:37:05 PM
I've been getting a LOT of connection errors and invalids using this pool lately. Switching both my miners back to bitcoin.lc - will revisit once these issues are fixed.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Coaster on June 23, 2011, 12:02:12 AM
overall review on 10,000 shares and around .60 btc earned.. I think i started off really well on efficiency and all the solo mining mixed in with score based mining kinda brought that eff down


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 23, 2011, 12:44:22 AM
Multipool - any chance of putting deepbit higher up the preference list than BTCMine? Deepbit has an efficiency for me (over 1700 shares) of 1.18, with fees of 3%. BTCMine (22760 shares) on the other hand has an efficiency of 0.735. I'd rather lose 3% from Deepbit than 26.5% from BTCMine!

Great job, btw - this is fascinating stuff, and the data is great fun to play with.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 23, 2011, 12:54:39 AM
overall review on 10,000 shares and around .60 btc earned.. I think i started off really well on efficiency and all the solo mining mixed in with score based mining kinda brought that eff down

10000 shares at a proportional pool would bring expected earnings of 0.57. So you're still ahead by 5%. Variance has a big effect on efficiency until about 40000 shares total when it starts to level off - at about 1.12, for me.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 23, 2011, 03:51:31 AM
I've been getting a LOT of connection errors and invalids using this pool lately. Switching both my miners back to bitcoin.lc - will revisit once these issues are fixed.
same
also, my efficiency is down to 0.997, while paying 2% fee to the pool and a fee to the pools it mines :/


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 23, 2011, 05:50:31 AM
I've been getting a LOT of connection errors and invalids using this pool lately. Switching both my miners back to bitcoin.lc - will revisit once these issues are fixed.
same
also, my efficiency is down to 0.997, while paying 2% fee to the pool and a fee to the pools it mines :/

What is this 2% fee of which you speak?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 23, 2011, 06:16:03 AM
I've been getting a LOT of connection errors and invalids using this pool lately. Switching both my miners back to bitcoin.lc - will revisit once these issues are fixed.
same
also, my efficiency is down to 0.997, while paying 2% fee to the pool and a fee to the pools it mines :/

What is this 2% fee of which you speak?
the "you got 2.0 efficiency on these shares and 0.6 efficiency on the next batch so you pay 5% on the 2.0 efficiency" fee


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 23, 2011, 06:54:32 AM
NotaNumber (div by zero) just ruin everything! they're contagious and infect everything they contact.
Oh my, how did those got in the database! Eligius must have been sending out some crazy stats if they managed to get through all the layers of sanity checks. Cleaned up the database and slapped another sanity check, just to be sure. Besides that and btcmine glitches, the database has held up rather well over the past week.

The reason for my  ??? is that I'd thought that is what "Efficiency" already represents. Eg: atm if you solo 877000 shares/blocks, or do the same at a proportional pool at "luck" multiplier = 1.0, you expect 50 coins. You can check for yourself that efficiency is calculated as (received coins/expected coins), which means it would also be (utilised shares/accepted shares). But efficiency!=utility/shares - again, you can check this with a few of your own.

I prolly have this the wrong way around, and it'd be handy for stats purposes if it relates to eg. the total shares in that block. Then (I hope to) relate results to Raulo's original paper on hopping and not just calculate hopping efficiency but predict best hopping algos for each pool.
As I see it, utility is related to what the multipool algorithm expects the shares to be worth ahead of time, while efficiency is related to what their real worth turns out to be after the fact, once multipool knows how many coins it will actually collect for them. Confusingly the two are not expressed in the same way, one is expected total worth, while the other is real worth per share (both in relation to the average worth of one share at the current difficulty).

That's what I suggested should be changed, so that you'd have "expected worth per share" and "real worth per share" instead, allowing for a direct comparison. If the algorithm is correct, these numbers should more or less converge over time.
TeaRex is exactly correct in the explanation. The reason I didn't display utility as "expected per share" to begin with, is that each share has unique utility. The database keeps count of the number of shares submitted by each user to each pool in each round, and also of the sum of the shares' utilities in that round. When a round is rewarded, each user receives a proportion of the round's reward equal to the proportion of the user's total utility against the total utility of all users in that round. To me it is easier to think of expected utility in these terms. Couldn't someone write a greasemonkey script if there really is demand for displaying utility as per share, rather than total?

Is Multipool the "crazy miner on eligius US" who has 68% of the hashrate?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.msg264031#msg264031

(eligius US has been down for the last week, everyone is on eligius EU)
So what's the deal with eligius? Eligius-us is back up, serving stats and getworks, and accepting shares, but it is "down"? I guess I'll keep it out of rotation while it decides its existential problem.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 23, 2011, 08:20:24 AM

TeaRex is exactly correct in the explanation. The reason I didn't display utility as "expected per share" to begin with, is that each share has unique utility. The database keeps count of the number of shares submitted by each user to each pool in each round, and also of the sum of the shares' utilities in that round. When a round is rewarded, each user receives a proportion of the round's reward equal to the proportion of the user's total utility against the total utility of all users in that round. To me it is easier to think of expected utility in these terms. Couldn't someone write a greasemonkey script if there really is demand for displaying utility as per share, rather than total?

So shares -> (calculations) -> utility (calculations) -> efficiency? ok, got it.

I don't really care about showing utility/shares, but if you could publish the total shares it took the 'victim' pool solve the block our shares are from, that would be awesome. Although prob very hard. Are some of the shares getting grouped together with shares from other blocks?

Quote
So what's the deal with eligius? Eligius-us is back up, serving stats and getworks, and accepting shares, but it is "down"? I guess I'll keep it out of rotation while it decides its existential problem.

Yep, Eligius US accepts shares but forwards them on to Eligius EU. Sometimes, though, it's up and hashes for a little bit. But Eligius US is down for all intents:

http://eligius.st/~artefact2/


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 23, 2011, 08:44:33 AM
still getting RPC errors


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: burp on June 23, 2011, 06:42:12 PM
Why do I see no earnings for btcguild and for the other pools just after a very long time? Are you taking the funds from the pools manually?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 23, 2011, 08:51:08 PM
What changed on wednesday in your utility calculations? mtred did really fine till Wednesday, then we started to just send 1 or 2 shares per block.

And what happend to all that eligius shares? That really hurt.

About profit, even if my stats look fine (efficiency 1.1), i havnt earend what i should have earned with standardvalue * 1.1. Not even 90 Percent of it. Maybe all those idle and RPC Probs one reason for that.



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: superweb on June 23, 2011, 11:09:42 PM
Trying for few days few with my one 6870 :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 23, 2011, 11:18:46 PM
What changed on wednesday in your utility calculations? mtred did really fine till Wednesday, then we started to just send 1 or 2 shares per block.

And what happend to all that eligius shares? That really hurt.

About profit, even if my stats look fine (efficiency 1.1), i havnt earend what i should have earned with standardvalue * 1.1. Not even 90 Percent of it. Maybe all those idle and RPC Probs one reason for that.



Are you using shares+pending shares, or just shares? Mine are spot on using

earned = confirmed shares*Efficiency*50/877000, for 70000 confirmed shares





Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Mike 71 on June 24, 2011, 06:14:54 AM
I used this site

http://www.btcserv.net/bitcoin-calculator/

to calculate my 24 bitcoin earing, what should be match my earing here / efficiency.

But i recalculated right now, and it says .31 now, before 3 days it sayed .43 (same difficult was shown on the right side), so with .31 it seems fine.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 24, 2011, 06:44:17 AM
I used this site

http://www.btcserv.net/bitcoin-calculator/

to calculate my 24 bitcoin earing, what should be match my earing here / efficiency.

But i recalculated right now, and it says .31 now, before 3 days it sayed .43 (same difficult was shown on the right side), so with .31 it seems fine.

Great link. Interesting.

It's giving you less for 24 hours now because it attempts to take into account the fact that new difficulty will start in a few hours. So it's still too low. Can you post your Mhps and copy/paste the first (summary) section of your stats?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 24, 2011, 06:46:55 AM
Why do I see no earnings for btcguild and for the other pools just after a very long time? Are you taking the funds from the pools manually?
Many pools have a waiting period before rounds are confirmed and rewards are calculated. The period is typically 120 blocks, which is ~20 hours. While btcguild and some other pools (but not all) display stats for rounds pending confirmation, those stats sometimes change midway through (rounds become invalidated), and that was messing with my database. So I only display full "earned" stats only for confirmed rounds for now.

What changed on wednesday in your utility calculations? mtred did really fine till Wednesday, then we started to just send 1 or 2 shares per block.
And what happend to all that eligius shares? That really hurt.
About profit, even if my stats look fine (efficiency 1.1), i havnt earend what i should have earned with standardvalue * 1.1. Not even 90 Percent of it. Maybe all those idle and RPC Probs one reason for that.
If you are comparing payouts to what you estimate what you would have made during the same time while solo/in a single pool, are you including the "pending" shares and the "solo" shares? When Multipool solves its own block, all the solo shares will be rewarded... proportionally ;D.

Still tweaking optimal loads for the pools in rotation. Deepbit and btcmine bans appear to have expired. Also I seem to have figured out how to mine from slush without breaking load constraints. Apparently, slush only remembers the last 24 shares requested per miner, and any submitted shares older than that are rejected. Using more miners on rotation did the trick! Still tweaking mtred (might have set it at too restrictive!) and bitcoinpool.

In addition mtred earnings scrapper has apparently been broken last two days - the mtred status page format has changed and Multipool wasn't able to parse their rounds info. Once this fix is out, the "pending" mtred blocks will get merged into confirmed rounds.

I don't really care about showing utility/shares, but if you could publish the total shares it took the 'victim' pool solve the block our shares are from, that would be awesome. Although prob very hard. Are some of the shares getting grouped together with shares from other blocks?
Fine fine, nagging works. Here's a dump (http://pastebin.com/tQCXp5At) from the database of pool round total shares and timestamps. You can also get this info yourself from the pools' public stats pages.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 24, 2011, 08:22:39 AM
Thank you very much Mr. Pool! Hope it wasn't too much of a hassle.

Cheers.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Grinder on June 24, 2011, 10:47:54 AM
Has anybody used this pool successfully with "Flexible mining proxy"? The proxy works fine with my 5 other pools, but this one is just completely ignored. It never logs any attempt at getting a share, even though it has the highest priority and both pool and workers are enabled. I don't get any error messages as far as I can see.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: nick5429 on June 24, 2011, 11:27:30 AM
Has anybody used this pool successfully with "Flexible mining proxy"? The proxy works fine with my 5 other pools, but this one is just completely ignored. It never logs any attempt at getting a share, even though it has the highest priority and both pool and workers are enabled. I don't get any error messages as far as I can see.

I've tried it, and get the same behavior you're seeing.  Being able to use Multipool as my primary and something else as backups is really the whole reason I found "Flexible mining proxy" appealing to begin with, so it would be great if someone were able to get this working!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 24, 2011, 11:47:32 AM
I know this doesn't answer your question, but I'm using multiple instances of miners for backup and for load balancing. Works well.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: superweb on June 24, 2011, 04:10:07 PM
Mining for 18 hours by about 280MH/s at multipool. Not enought to see if it's efective for me, but what I can see now is, that my stale rate is much higher than when I mined on single pool. Used to have it at about 0,5%, now with 52 stales from 3700 shares I'm at about 1,4%
Is this normal?
Using poclbm -v -w256 -f60 with 6870 at 1000Mhz core and 346Mhz RAM, backed up with "poclbm -f300" on deepbit for case of multipool problems. While the deepbit backup is getting only about 10MH/s, it's at 3 stale out of 350 shares.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: TeaRex on June 24, 2011, 05:52:06 PM
Hello Multipool,

my total efficiency value suddenly jumped way up after today's difficulty change. Is your website script maybe not taking into account that older shares have to have their efficiency measured against the difficulty that was in place when they were submitted rather than the current value?

Regards TeaRex


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: shamen on June 24, 2011, 06:48:35 PM
I cant seem to connect any more :(

*edit* back upp. offline for about 2 hours for me there :(


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: tekwarrior on June 24, 2011, 08:11:56 PM
Mining for 18 hours by about 280MH/s at multipool. Not enought to see if it's efective for me, but what I can see now is, that my stale rate is much higher than when I mined on single pool. Used to have it at about 0,5%, now with 52 stales from 3700 shares I'm at about 1,4%
Is this normal?
Using poclbm -v -w256 -f60 with 6870 at 1000Mhz core and 346Mhz RAM, backed up with "poclbm -f300" on deepbit for case of multipool problems. While the deepbit backup is getting only about 10MH/s, it's at 3 stale out of 350 shares.

I got a lot of rejected shares too, but I noticed that the number of those fits my usual 2% + the solo shares perfectly (though I'm not sure if it's really the reason for that).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 24, 2011, 10:55:01 PM
I'm getting these:
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": Traceback (most recent call last):
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "BitcoinMiner.pyo", line 261, in longPollThread
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "BitcoinMiner.pyo", line 223, in request
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 898, in request
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 935, in _send_request
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 892, in endheaders
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 764, in _send_output
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 723, in send
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 704, in connect
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "socket.pyo", line 514, in create_connection
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": Traceback (most recent call last):
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "BitcoinMiner.pyo", line 261, in longPollThread
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "BitcoinMiner.pyo", line 223, in request
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 898, in request
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 935, in _send_request
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 892, in endheaders
2011-06-24 12:36:14: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line 764, in _send_output
2011-06-24 12:36:15: Listener for "multipool": File "httplib.pyo", line24/06/2011 12:36:15, Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 25, 2011, 07:10:53 AM
Something's odd going on. While majority of the miners are doing fine, 8 of them are hammering the server at 10 getworks per second each and with few/zero submitted shares. They seem to have been doing fine in the past. Is there a new miner version out, or did I mess something up in the miner connection module? I haven't been changing anything in that area.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 25, 2011, 07:48:26 AM
Ok, the surge has passed. By the way, if your recent share submission rate is less than 40%, you will only get solo shares :P. Don't want to get the pool banned for DoSing getworks with no shares returned - this protection worked very well just now.

I cant seem to connect any more :(

*edit* back upp. offline for about 2 hours for me there :(
Server crashed after running out of memory. Spent some time optimizing the database - replaced a large number of hashtables with arrays - cut the memory usage in half. Also, bitcoind needs restarting occasionally - its memory footprint can grow larger with time than that of Firefox 3!

Hello Multipool,

my total efficiency value suddenly jumped way up after today's difficulty change. Is your website script maybe not taking into account that older shares have to have their efficiency measured against the difficulty that was in place when they were submitted rather than the current value?

Regards TeaRex
That's right. I thought I put the variable difficulty checks in place already, but apparently I didn't. The checks are up now, and all your efficiencies are accordingly back down. Are you sure you wouldn't rather be looking at 170% efficiency values, even if only imaginary :D?

I can see now is, that my stale rate is much higher than when I mined on single pool. Used to have it at about 0,5%, now with 52 stales from 3700 shares I'm at about 1,4%
Is this normal?
Yes, unfortunately that's the downside of a mining proxy. With the extra hop in both directions, getworks and shares have greater age, and therefore have higher chance of arriving after a block change and being rejected. Multipool has longpolling to minimize stale shares, but even so it takes time for the pool to be notified of a block update and then notify the miners. Of course, all this takes place within an interval of a few seconds.

On the other hand, I occasionally see shares that are clearly within a block, have valid merkles and nonces, have a valid hash, and are not duplicates, but that nevertheless get rejected by the target pool, even as many other shares of similar age get accepted around the same time. Why does this happen? Couldn't really tell without knowing the internal workings of the other pools.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: superweb on June 25, 2011, 08:56:18 AM
On the other hand, I occasionally see shares that are clearly within a block, have valid merkles and nonces, have a valid hash, and are not duplicates, but that nevertheless get rejected by the target pool, even as many other shares of similar age get accepted around the same time. Why does this happen? Couldn't really tell without knowing the internal workings of the other pools.

Is this happening on all pools? Btw the multipool's website is down for me, while the mining looks working fine.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: tschaboo on June 25, 2011, 02:04:30 PM
On the other hand, I occasionally see shares that are clearly within a block, have valid merkles and nonces, have a valid hash, and are not duplicates, but that nevertheless get rejected by the target pool, even as many other shares of similar age get accepted around the same time. Why does this happen? Couldn't really tell without knowing the internal workings of the other pools.

It would be very interesting to see statistics about that happening: which pools are affected and how many percent of valid shares are rejected?

I noticed differences in stale-share percentage while trying all those pools but my hashing-power is rather low and the timeframe was too short to get statistically significance.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: shamen on June 25, 2011, 02:16:23 PM
Quote from: Multipool
On the other hand, I occasionally see shares that are clearly within a block, have valid merkles and nonces, have a valid hash, and are not duplicates, but that nevertheless get rejected by the target pool, even as many other shares of similar age get accepted around the same time. Why does this happen? Couldn't really tell without knowing the internal workings of the other pools.

Related?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18567.msg277371#msg277371 (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18567.msg277371#msg277371)

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14483.0 (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14483.0)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 25, 2011, 08:44:04 PM
How hard is it to add new pools to this setup? There are multitudes of tiny proportional pools shooting up like mushrooms, waiting to be picked!

If you could abstract the info for pools in a config file, we might even be able to fill these out for you, so you just have to enter that information...

Only problem might be, that these pools then might feel like being DDOSed, if we have a certain hashpower already within multipool (which I think we do).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: burp on June 25, 2011, 08:55:26 PM
The only problem might be that the extraction of the number of shares for the current round from each pool is different.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Sukrim on June 26, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
That's most likely "just a regex" or exposed via an API... ;)

If not, then you'd have to guess/extrapolate from past performance I guess.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 26, 2011, 04:34:13 AM
How hard is it to add new pools to this setup? There are multitudes of tiny proportional pools shooting up like mushrooms, waiting to be picked!

If you could abstract the info for pools in a config file, we might even be able to fill these out for you, so you just have to enter that information...

Only problem might be, that these pools then might feel like being DDOSed, if we have a certain hashpower already within multipool (which I think we do).
The pool code is largely modular - I do have a pools.conf file ;) - and in addition there is some pool-specific code sprinkled around mostly for specific load balancing. It is indeed easy to write a regex. It is more difficult to write a routine that can handle minor formatting changes in the webpages, unexpected data (each pool handles invalid blocks slightly differently, and they are rare enough to make it difficult to see an example), nonsensical data (the json api of some pools occasionally returns values that I can pretty surely say are incorrect), and potentially malicious data. Moreover, the routine must fail graciously if it does fail to parse. Case in point:
Btw the multipool's website is down for me, while the mining looks working fine.
The cause of this particular problem was that apparently bitcoind can on random occasions timeout on rpc requests, even though it's running locally (what is it so busy doing - resorting its database, or maybe thinking up of ways to use up even more memory?). A getdifficulty request during the generation of a webpage doesn't return a number, and the division of the user's round shares by the difficulty to get the efficiency value results in a division by zero and crashes the website thread. So now not only do I have to mistrust and recheck the data the pools send out, I cannot even trust and have to sanity-check my own bitcoind.

I am currently testing more pools and will put them up once I'm satisfied enough. If I were doing it alone, I wouldn't need so many checks - as long as the miners are running, nothing bad can happen. But with actual users, someone is certain to complain the moment a round is marked with "zero" earnings, or if the database were to become corrupted and had to be rolled back, or things like that, so I must give due diligence.

I would like some advice on what to do with all the small proportional pools, which do spawn like mushrooms. The problem is that they and Multipool are of comparable size. Therefore, while small pools can be extremely profitable, there are also high risks of (in this order):
  • overloading and crashing the pool
  • being banned for DoSing/hopping
  • the pool collapsing and shutting down, without rewarding the shares
  • the pool being a scam
My opinion is not to mine pools below 100GHash/s size, which does limit the options somewhat.

Quote from: Multipool
On the other hand, I occasionally see shares that are clearly within a block, have valid merkles and nonces, have a valid hash, and are not duplicates, but that nevertheless get rejected by the target pool, even as many other shares of similar age get accepted around the same time. Why does this happen? Couldn't really tell without knowing the internal workings of the other pools.
Related?
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18567.msg277371#msg277371 (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18567.msg277371#msg277371)
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14483.0 (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14483.0)
Yes, if there were indeed a bug with X-Roll-NTime which caused duplicate work submissions, the results would be exactly the same as what I'm seeing. I don't have the stats off-hand, but I remember this happening with at least several pools, not just one. If that's the case, then it's up to the pool operators to fix it - Multipool cannot duplicate-check shares that it has never received in the first place.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: jdebunt on June 26, 2011, 07:35:24 AM
i'm in for a test, let's see how it goes :)


edit : most shares seem to go to "Solo", is this intended?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 26, 2011, 10:08:14 AM
Multipool is now my backup pool. The problem with backup pools is, of course, that they are on a constantly low getwork efficiency. (single-digit percentage for me at ~3mhash/s)

I see you want me to work on solo shares when my efficiency is below 40%. ;D Is this measured over all submitted shares, even in the past? Because it seems like I submitted a guild share this round. Or maybe the sample size is very small, because I noticed my main pool has just refused to work for a minute or two, allowing my multipool getwork efficiency to go >40%.

A few more questions:
* Currently, (my version of) poclbm requests new work after 55s (or when a long poll returns). How much could I increase this time without causing problems to multipool?
* What are the round stats for your "solo" mining pool? Can we expect to find a block any time soon?
* What's the pool hash rate? :o


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: burp on June 26, 2011, 11:10:26 AM
Quote
My opinion is not to mine pools below 100GHash/s size, which does limit the options somewhat.

Yes I can see that point, what about adding bitcoins.lc?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 26, 2011, 01:12:17 PM
bitclockers is ripe for the picking, they broke 100ghash/s


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 26, 2011, 01:24:52 PM
Ok, switched over to you last night.  Been running for 14 hours and earned a total of .014 when I would have had at least .25 at a different pool.  

Shares   384
Shares (w/ pending)   7594
Utility   390.253
Earned   0.01419268
Efficiency   1.020
Collected   0.00348139

Why do I have so many pending shares?  What do pending shares even mean?  If pending means that multipool just doesn't know what the reward is, why does it take so long? 

It says 1.020 efficiency, but its more like .0567 efficiency for me, as I have earned basically nothing in 14 hours.  Am I to expect a massive payout starting soon or should I switch to another pool?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 26, 2011, 01:32:13 PM
It means that for 7594 shares multipool has submitted to a pool on your behalf, it is not clear yet how much they earned you. Maybe the pool where they have been sent has not found a block yet. Most of the time it's because the block where they participated in has not matured yet (less than 120 confirmations). As soon as those blocks reach 120 confirmations, the shares will no longer be pending and your "Earned" will go up. Later the "Collected" will go up, as Multipool gets payouts from pools. Then you get paid out. It's 12-24 hours usually from "Pending" to "Paid".

The shares that go to "solo" however take really long to pay out, because multipool has not found a block yet. ;)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 26, 2011, 03:31:29 PM
It means that for 7594 shares multipool has submitted to a pool on your behalf, it is not clear yet how much they earned you. Maybe the pool where they have been sent has not found a block yet. Most of the time it's because the block where they participated in has not matured yet (less than 120 confirmations). As soon as those blocks reach 120 confirmations, the shares will no longer be pending and your "Earned" will go up. Later the "Collected" will go up, as Multipool gets payouts from pools. Then you get paid out. It's 12-24 hours usually from "Pending" to "Paid".

The shares that go to "solo" however take really long to pay out, because multipool has not found a block yet. ;)

I hope so, because its very disconcerting sending nearly 10,000 shares to a pool and seeing my reward as one and a half bitcents.   


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: burp on June 26, 2011, 04:08:10 PM
It means that for 7594 shares multipool has submitted to a pool on your behalf, it is not clear yet how much they earned you. Maybe the pool where they have been sent has not found a block yet. Most of the time it's because the block where they participated in has not matured yet (less than 120 confirmations). As soon as those blocks reach 120 confirmations, the shares will no longer be pending and your "Earned" will go up. Later the "Collected" will go up, as Multipool gets payouts from pools. Then you get paid out. It's 12-24 hours usually from "Pending" to "Paid".

The shares that go to "solo" however take really long to pay out, because multipool has not found a block yet. ;)

I hope so, because its very disconcerting sending nearly 10,000 shares to a pool and seeing my reward as one and a half bitcents.   

I had the same concern, but as it turns out everything is ok. Just expect a 1 or 2 days delay on multipool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 26, 2011, 04:10:14 PM
I had the same concern, but as it turns out everything is ok. Just expect a 1 or 2 days delay on multipool.

Jesus, thats a hell of a delay.  Is it worth it?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: superweb on June 26, 2011, 04:23:12 PM
it would be more fair, if the fee from efficiency over 1 would be taken from global efficiency, once per 24hrs for bitcoins generated in that 24hrs for example. It may be higher then. In this system I'm at 0,9 efficiency total, but still paying fee for the rounds with efficiency over 1.
And there's a question if my total efficiency allready calculates with fees for "rounds with over 1" efficiency paid.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: AngstHase on June 26, 2011, 05:10:45 PM
down  :'(


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 26, 2011, 06:06:32 PM
Not a good introduction to the pool.  Ridiculously long delay between submitting shares and receiving a reward and now the pool is down and apparently has been for over an hour.  I wanted to believe but idk, gotta switch back to something more concrete.  Maybe in 48 hours when 9999 of my 10000 shares don't say pending and a reward I'll be back.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 26, 2011, 06:11:17 PM
Not a good introduction to the pool.  Ridiculously long delay between submitting shares and receiving a reward and now the pool is down and apparently has been for over an hour.  I wanted to believe but idk, gotta switch back to something more concrete.

The delay is due to the way this pool works. It can't pay you before it receives payments from the other pools. Sure, the "earned" display could update sooner, but that's just cosmetic.

The pool has had quite a few downtimes. Either you accept it or you move to another pool that doesn't exploit other pools. (Or you do it better. ;) )


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 26, 2011, 06:43:57 PM
Not a good introduction to the pool.  Ridiculously long delay between submitting shares and receiving a reward and now the pool is down and apparently has been for over an hour.  I wanted to believe but idk, gotta switch back to something more concrete.

The delay is due to the way this pool works. It can't pay you before it receives payments from the other pools. Sure, the "earned" display could update sooner, but that's just cosmetic.

The pool has had quite a few downtimes. Either you accept it or you move to another pool that doesn't exploit other pools. (Or you do it better. ;) )

Thanks for the info.  I can accept the delay in payments, but you say there are quite a few downtimes?  Making 10% more than I should is awesome, unless my miners sit idle 10% of the time. . .


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 26, 2011, 07:54:48 PM
I'm not so sure how often it is down lately, because I no longer use multipool as my primary pool (it's not that I no longer like it, I'm a fan of it!). It is still my backup pool though. In the first days it was down a few times for longer than only a few minutes.

So I'd recommend: Just start a second miner for each of your GPUs and point them at a different pool, but with a higher -f (poclbm) or lower AGGRESSION (phoenix) value. When/if multipool goes offline, the second miner will pick up speed and your GPU won't idle.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Coaster on June 26, 2011, 08:04:03 PM
I highly recommend multipool as a backup pool or just if ya want to test out OC settings to check your updated hash rate. Once in awhile it gets some massive efficiency boosts. But mainly with eligius, it wastes time on BTCMine and a few others which lower efficiency greatly.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 26, 2011, 10:34:51 PM
I highly recommend multipool as a backup pool or just if ya want to test out OC settings to check your updated hash rate. Once in awhile it gets some massive efficiency boosts. But mainly with eligius, it wastes time on BTCMine and a few others which lower efficiency greatly.

From what I have seen today, I wouldn't even feel safe with it as a backup pool.  5.5 hours downtime and counting.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Clipse on June 26, 2011, 10:52:14 PM
Opensource it? I dont see why it should remain on a single host when people could run it locally, or on their own host?

That is if you want to opensource it of course.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: zaphod on June 26, 2011, 10:57:46 PM
From what I have seen today, I wouldn't even feel safe with it as a backup pool.  5.5 hours downtime and counting.

My guess is he's been asleep -- 6:56am in Taiwan...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: zaphod on June 26, 2011, 11:02:57 PM
Questions on pool hopping strategy:

Why not always go to the pool with the lowest number of shares?  It would seem (at first blush) that this would result the highest returns overall.  Intuitively this would seem to be the best way to capture disproportionately large shares.

Also, adding smaller pools could work if your server could pull equally from the X lowest pools where X could be configured based on the overall hashrate of the metapool.  I understand the concern about these pools dying, but the flip side is that contributions from the metapool may sustain more of them, since the pool owners really only care to make their fee.

Just some thoughts.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: tschaboo on June 26, 2011, 11:41:17 PM
Why not always go to the pool with the lowest number of shares?  It would seem (at first blush) that this would result the highest returns overall.  Intuitively this would seem to be the best way to capture disproportionately large shares.

There are not only proportional pools involved. Slush has a scoring method, bitcoinpool has a fine if you leave too early, etc. So it's more complicated to calculate. I guess if all pools would be proportional and have the same fee structure that approach would work.

Quote
Also, adding smaller pools could work if your server could pull equally from the X lowest pools where X could be configured based on the overall hashrate of the metapool.  I understand the concern about these pools dying, but the flip side is that contributions from the metapool may sustain more of them, since the pool owners really only care to make their fee.

I agree. Most pools publish their cumulative hash rate. So there could be a limitation like "don't put in more than an additional 50% of their usual hashrate". That doesn't solve the problem though if you choose a pool which has no reputation and runs away with the BCN...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: zaphod on June 26, 2011, 11:58:51 PM
There are not only proportional pools involved. Slush has a scoring method, bitcoinpool has a fine if you leave too early, etc. So it's more complicated to calculate. I guess if all pools would be proportional and have the same fee structure that approach would work.

Right, so you probably need to eliminate them from the rotation.

Quote
I agree. Most pools publish their cumulative hash rate. So there could be a limitation like "don't put in more than an additional 50% of their usual hashrate". That doesn't solve the problem though if you choose a pool which has no reputation and runs away with the BCN...

True, obviously you can't just do any old pool, but there seem to be a number of 10-100Gh/s, low fee, proportional pools right now that are solving blocks and paying out...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 27, 2011, 01:38:56 AM
Been down now for eight and a half hours.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 27, 2011, 01:40:54 AM
Not a good introduction to the pool.  Ridiculously long delay between submitting shares and receiving a reward and now the pool is down and apparently has been for over an hour.  I wanted to believe but idk, gotta switch back to something more concrete.

The delay is due to the way this pool works. It can't pay you before it receives payments from the other pools. Sure, the "earned" display could update sooner, but that's just cosmetic.

The pool has had quite a few downtimes. Either you accept it or you move to another pool that doesn't exploit other pools. (Or you do it better. ;) )

Thanks for the info.  I can accept the delay in payments, but you say there are quite a few downtimes?  Making 10% more than I should is awesome, unless my miners sit idle 10% of the time. . .
I run two pools, multipool at f 30 and a backup pool at f 60 so it doesn't matter if it goes down


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 27, 2011, 02:05:41 AM
I run two pools, multipool at f 30 and a backup pool at f 60 so it doesn't matter if it goes down

Just setup something similar.

Edit:  Now 10 hours of downtime.  At this point I just want to see if my 18 hours of mining was a complete waste or not.  Last I saw I had .01BTC from that 18 hours.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: jdebunt on June 27, 2011, 04:32:20 AM
is this even going to get up again or not? been almost 12 hours now....


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: JDog on June 27, 2011, 04:41:52 AM
I agree, I was so excited about finding this pool and less than 1/2 day later it's MIA.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: shamen on June 27, 2011, 09:11:39 AM
completely dead here for ages.

gutted. Had submitted 15,000 shares to that.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 27, 2011, 10:43:58 AM
OK, I gotta ask since my first experience with this pool was yesterday and its been down for over 15 and a half hours now.  Is this is a scam?  Will I see anything from my over 10,000 shares submitted? 


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 27, 2011, 10:47:53 AM
OK, I gotta ask since my first experience with this pool was yesterday and its been down for over 15 and a half hours now.  Is this is a scam?  Will I see anything from my over 10,000 shares submitted? 
I got paid when it was up fwiw


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: gentakin on June 27, 2011, 10:50:05 AM
It sucks for me too, as I have no backup pool now. Let's hope my primary won't go offline. However I have a lot of confidence in the pool operator. He's probably unable to restart the server now for whatever reasons. Let's hope he gets back soon. :)

edit: oh, and I was paid correctly (daily) back when it was still up. It makes no sense for the operator to run with our money, as it's max. 1 day worth of our mining work. He could get a constant fee if this keeps working, which is probably more.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: shamen on June 27, 2011, 10:55:12 AM
OK, I gotta ask since my first experience with this pool was yesterday and its been down for over 15 and a half hours now.  Is this is a scam?  Will I see anything from my over 10,000 shares submitted? 
I got paid when it was up fwiw

I did get paid a small amount from this pool. Nothing compared to what was submitted as everything was 'pending'. So maybe ill get some when its back.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 27, 2011, 10:59:05 AM
I got paid when it was up fwiw

edit: oh, and I was paid correctly (daily) back when it was still up. It makes no sense for the operator to run with our money, as it's max. 1 day worth of our mining work. He could get a constant fee if this keeps working, which is probably more.

Well thats at least good to hear.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 27, 2011, 11:31:25 AM
Up til yesterday I'd been paid 1.1 to 1.5 * what I'd expect, with about a day's delay over a two week period Not a scam, and I've gotten more from this pool than anyother (compared to difficulty) even taking downtimes into account.

No doubt Multipool will get things back up asap.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: enmaku on June 27, 2011, 05:11:00 PM
OP if you're reading this, please get multipool back up! I've got 3 GH/s to point your way but I can't if you're down!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 27, 2011, 05:40:43 PM
Over 24 hours down without a word from OP. . . . . .  Not looking good.  Could have had a third of a bitcoin at deepbit using PPS with those 10k shares.

Edit:  28 hours down.

Edit2: 30 hours down.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: enmaku on June 27, 2011, 10:43:02 PM
First ever mining pool ponzi scheme?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 27, 2011, 10:48:06 PM
First ever mining pool ponzi scheme?

My first thought was that the OP may be dealing with some family or personal issue, but then I thought, what a coincidence that the site would crash at the same time.  So yea, pretty sure at this point it was a scam.  Thank god I used a unique password for this site.  Too bad I lost over 10k shares.  Won't trust any new site again.

I have a theory.  I bet someone found a block while mining solo and he decided to take the 50BTC and all of the pending payouts and run.  

BTW, I am continually amazed that I am seemingly the only one pissed about this.  9 pages of people talking about using this pool and apparently I was actually the only one using it.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: superweb on June 27, 2011, 11:24:54 PM
First ever mining pool ponzi scheme?

My first thought was that the OP may be dealing with some family or personal issue, but then I thought, what a coincidence that the site would crash at the same time.  So yea, pretty sure at this point it was a scam.  Thank god I used a unique password for this site.  Too bad I lost over 10k shares.  Won't trust any new site again.

I have a theory.  I bet someone found a block while mining solo and he decided to take the 50BTC and all of the pending payouts and run.  

BTW, I am continually amazed that I am seemingly the only one pissed about this.  9 pages of people talking about using this pool and apparently I was actually the only one using it.

still to early to say it was scam. Also used it few days with several shutdowns. Get paid a little of my earnings allready(about 0,06 of 0,25), but why should anybody do this kind of programing work to achieve few day's bank, while he may make less for much lomger time? It is just too young project to make any conclusion. It can still be a hosting problem, as many developers uses "home housing" for the first phase of project(eg. before it makes enought to pay the profihousing for)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 27, 2011, 11:28:31 PM
I guess I'm the only one who came out ahead - I lost 10000 shares, but got 105000 shares worth of coin for 90000 shares. I'm still 5000 shares ahead. I find it hard to believe this was designed to be a scam -  the math seemed to work out and I'd be surprised if Multipool wasn't using a real algo.

Withholding judgement until more info available. Although coming out ahead, I guess I can afford to.

First ever mining pool ponzi scheme?

I doubt it - the payoffs to early adopters were only around 10% more than for solo. If I were going to ponzi up a pool, I'd be paying out a bit more than that.

Could be wrong though - the OP was Multipool's first post under that name.

Quote
still to early to say it was scam.

+1


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: enmaku on June 27, 2011, 11:30:41 PM
Fair enough, I was 50% joking anyway  ;D

In all seriousness, though, I really hope it comes back up soon.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 27, 2011, 11:56:11 PM
Fair enough, I was 50% joking anyway  ;D

I was only 50% serious ;)

Quote
In all seriousness, though, I really hope it comes back up soon.

another +1



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: muyoso on June 28, 2011, 12:23:05 AM
still to early to say it was scam. Also used it few days with several shutdowns. Get paid a little of my earnings allready(about 0,06 of 0,25), but why should anybody do this kind of programing work to achieve few day's bank, while he may make less for much lomger time? It is just too young project to make any conclusion. It can still be a hosting problem, as many developers uses "home housing" for the first phase of project(eg. before it makes enought to pay the profihousing for)

Believe me, I hope I am wrong.  If it is a server issue though, why wouldn't he pop in here and give an update?  Its been 30 hours now.  The only reason I am kinda quick to say "scam" is that I started mining about 16 hours before it went down for the last 30 hours without a word from the OP.  I hope it turns out that I am just an idiot.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: fpgaminer on June 28, 2011, 01:55:20 AM
This is a very .... odd pool :P

Why did it default to its own proportional system as a fallback? That would fall prey to the same problems as all the other proportional pools it was trying to "game." The fallback method should be to submit to a PPS pool, or have its own local PPS system. The share utility on a PPS system is constant and known, so it makes a good fallback and a base line for minimum efficiency.

Given that, it should never have used score-based pools, unless the confidence was high that efficiency would be greater than the baseline set by PPS.

I'm almost tempted to clone this pool, but then I would feel dirty for gaming the proportional pools  :-\

Quote
Thank god I used a unique password for this site.
Errr ... this pool doesn't require a password. The password you use is ignored and not used for anything, like eligius.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: tschaboo on June 28, 2011, 02:22:33 AM
This is a very .... odd pool :P

Why did it default to its own proportional system as a fallback? That would fall prey to the same problems as all the other proportional pools it was trying to "game." The fallback method should be to submit to a PPS pool, or have its own local PPS system. The share utility on a PPS system is constant and known, so it makes a good fallback and a base line for minimum efficiency.

That's not odd that's ironic. It doesn't fall to the same problems because you can't pool hop his proportional "solo" pool because you can't choose which shares you get. Falling back to a PPS pool would be a bad idea. If you have a proportional pool without pool hopping the utility of each share will be 1. If you go to a PPS pool like deepbit you have a utility of 0.9 because of the 10% fees.

Quote
Given that, it should never have used score-based pools, unless the confidence was high that efficiency would be greater than the baseline set by PPS.

You are mixing up expected value and variance. This pool isn't about minimizing variance it's about maximizing utility. With number of shares towards infinity efficiency will be the same as utility.

BTW: A proportional pool is a score-based pool as well. Your score increases by 1 for every share and then you get your 50BTC / number of total score * your score. It doesn't matter what it's named. Either the calculation is vulnerable to pool hopping or not. If it is, there are times where your utility is >1 and times where it is <1. Even if it's only 1.001 (if there are no fees, of course) it's better than going solo (=1.0) or to deepbit (=0.9).

Quote
I'm almost tempted to clone this pool

Go ahead! But I think you need a quite deep understanding of probability and statistics to get it right. While I think that I understood it somehow (but I could be wrong, everything I wrote above could be nonsense), I couldn't do it.

Quote
but then I would feel dirty for gaming the proportional pools  :-\

I would not. I'd say >90% of the miners frequent this forum and >90% of those read about the pool-hopping-problem at least once. If they are still mining in proportional pools it's because they don't care getting less ... or so ... I guess.



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: tschaboo on June 28, 2011, 02:43:28 AM
still to early to say it was scam. Also used it few days with several shutdowns. Get paid a little of my earnings allready(about 0,06 of 0,25), but why should anybody do this kind of programing work to achieve few day's bank, while he may make less for much lomger time? It is just too young project to make any conclusion. It can still be a hosting problem, as many developers uses "home housing" for the first phase of project(eg. before it makes enought to pay the profihousing for)

Believe me, I hope I am wrong.  If it is a server issue though, why wouldn't he pop in here and give an update?  Its been 30 hours now.  The only reason I am kinda quick to say "scam" is that I started mining about 16 hours before it went down for the last 30 hours without a word from the OP.  I hope it turns out that I am just an idiot.

Well, it might be a scam, but I still don't think so. He would have run away with ... hmmm ... 100 BTC? Of course, that's a lot, but not enough for a skilled person to get criminal.

Even if he wouldn't show up in a month, I still wouldn't call him a scammer without further evidence. Imagine, you or I open up a new ambitious pool, after a week in the hospital, after an accident, you finally come back to your favorite forum and all you read is "OMFG! This asshole stole my 20 cents!!!"....

I hope he'll be back soon and nothing bad happened after all. Of course I'd also like to see some coins for my 25000 unpaid shares  :P


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: BombaUcigasa on June 28, 2011, 02:45:41 AM
Did this shut down? Damn, I was hoping to join the meta-pool, when the second multi-pool pool would come online, someone could make a meta-pool, a pool that exclusively requests work from pools that request work from other pool...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: organofcorti on June 28, 2011, 02:56:02 AM
..... until all the pools are metapools and all the internets explode.
 ;D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: iopq on June 28, 2011, 05:21:45 AM
Did this shut down? Damn, I was hoping to join the meta-pool, when the second multi-pool pool would come online, someone could make a meta-pool, a pool that exclusively requests work from pools that request work from other pool...
but only when the expected profit from the solo getworks is above one
since they'll use the same algorithm, both multipools would conclude it's best to solo mine at this junction, at which point the meta pool will request works from multi-pool when the proportional part of it has more than 1.0 utility  ;D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: Multipool on June 28, 2011, 06:45:27 AM
Amazing, I go away for a weekend, and everything is broken :D! Good job guys!

My apologies to the miners, but if there is to be any blame, direct it where it is due: the VPS host has shutdown and deleted my instance, after they've conveniently misplaced the BTC payment for the next month I sent them last week. They've apologized and offered to put the server back up with an extra month free, but with none of the old data of course. Coincidentally, they've revamped their plan offerings this same week, so for the price I've paid I only get 75% cpu and 50% memory I used to have. My policy in life is to give people the benefit of the doubt, as I will in this case, but it does bear mentioning that I have read (with skepticism) many stories of people being "accidentally" whiped by their host whenever their legacy plan becomes unprofitable. Who knows!

I might restart Multipool later, but I would need to find the time to whip the blank VPS into proper shape. In the meantime, as I have allowed Multipool to get out of my hands, I feel it would be fair if I release the source code now, so that miners who liked Multipool can run an instance of their own. Download the files from github (https://github.com/multipool/Multipool) - written in Perl for Linux, but it is probably possible, by the right person, to modify the code to run on Windows as well. To start the pool, you'd only need to create and edit accounts.conf and bitcoind.conf files - see the readme file for instructions. The pool has all multi-user features enabled, but you can ignore those if all you care is pool failover balancing and hopping. See "utility_1" function for specific details of utility of mining in proportional pools.

As for the missing pool data, fortunately, I have... daily... backups of the database. Unfortunately those who have mined in the last day probably aren't in it. What would be the fair way to fill in the blanks - would miners assent if I distribute the last day's earnings to the miners in proportion equal to their previous day's work? Tough luck though for the guy with the thousand pending shares and one confirmed ::). There is also some extra money from eligius from the time the pool was sending shares to eligius-us but was being redirected to eligius-eu. Once I have the time for that, I'll try to see whom that should be paid out to.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: rb2k on June 28, 2011, 07:30:39 AM
The Github repo is empty so far :(


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 28, 2011, 07:31:27 AM
There is a "Download" link where you can download Multipool.pl and README, but the pools.conf is corrupted/empty :(.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: iopq on June 28, 2011, 08:08:57 AM
There is a "Download" link where you can download Multipool.pl and README, but the pools.conf is corrupted/empty :(.
I think you have to create it yourself


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on June 28, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
Hey, thanks Multipool. You get back up, I'll rejoin. In the meantime I'll try your source and see how I go. Time to join a few more pools  ;)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on June 28, 2011, 08:49:12 AM
...and I'm fine with your proposed repayment plan.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on June 28, 2011, 09:48:10 AM
And now that the source is open, please everyone make sure to also build configs for smaller proportional pools and share them!

Edit: pools.conf is broken btw...
Even if you don't want to share ALL your regex code at least a few examples would be nice.

Also some possible improvements, to get around some issues of pools not displaying stats/intentionally faking stats (esp. GH/s)/heavily delaying stats:
2 Databases per pool:
* Displayed GH/s (via API/Website) logged every minute or so
* Calculated GH/s (via time it took to solve a block) every time a block was solved

With the 2nd Database you could do (if it's a bigger pool) some analysis if the average of last week for example falls within the expected variance of the displayed values or if it's completely off.

After this you can interpolate more or less and don't need to rely on guesses if the API/Website shows bogus data.

What also might be interesting would be to have Blockexplorer data on the result page and/or some nice RRDTool (or similar) Graphs.

Would be great if someone other than Multipool himself could take a look at this and help coding a real new Open Source metapool-backend!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gentakin on June 28, 2011, 10:42:05 AM
Quote
My apologies to the miners, but if there is to be any blame, direct it where it is due: the VPS host has shutdown and deleted my instance
WTF! Please tell us which host this is. Everyone should stop using it. Shutting down and deleting your instance without notice, that's just unacceptable.

I agree to your payout idea, though I'm afraid that I mined only a few shares on the last day (you are my backup pool), and all the shares I could on the day before (where it was my primary pool). So anything you pay to me I will happily send to muyoso.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 28, 2011, 08:30:05 PM
There is a "Download" link where you can download Multipool.pl and README, but the pools.conf is corrupted/empty :(.
Fixed the pools.conf link. First time using github, as you can see.

WTF! Please tell us which host this is. Everyone should stop using it. Shutting down and deleting your instance without notice, that's just unacceptable.
They did send notice. On Friday evening. And the server went down sometime Saturday/Sunday. Since I don't have proof of malicious intent, I am not going to libel them. Just something to be on the lookout for when VPS shopping.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: muyoso on June 29, 2011, 12:03:04 AM
So just to get the timeline right, the pool shut down at 1pm on June 26th EST (5pm GMT), which was a Sunday afternoon.  We know this because there is a post in this thread stating as much.  The website is hosted out of Taiwan I believe, so that would mean it shut down at 1am Monday morning, June 27th local time.  Odd time to shut down a site, but whatever.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Edit:  And you received notice at least 24 hours prior to the pool shutting down on Friday the 24th of June during the evening in whatever time zone you are in.  You posted twice on the 25th and once on the 26th, neglecting both days to inform people of the potential issue?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool
Post by: tschaboo on June 29, 2011, 12:15:34 AM
Welcome back, Multipool!  :)

What would be the fair way to fill in the blanks - would miners assent if I distribute the last day's earnings to the miners in proportion equal to their previous day's work? Tough luck though for the guy with the thousand pending shares and one confirmed ::).

I think that would be okay, but then please merge the accounts 1NMF8V2raa6B7hE84hYm2D5Djkm2JnvM8D and 1NvfAA7TA647CNZxRpvqkKrSGEHa4oGEwA and 1QEm95rPr8EKMTqYDyQNkUHpChY8Jj8Wct into one, since I changed the payout address to get more compact statistics. It's possible, that only two of those are in your backup though.

They did send notice. On Friday evening. And the server went down sometime Saturday/Sunday. Since I don't have proof of malicious intent, I am not going to libel them. Just something to be on the lookout for when VPS shopping.

Well, okay, they shut down your VPS, which is understandable if they think you didn't pay. But they REALLY shouldn't delete the data before - say - two weeks! Come on, that's a few GB. It's not too much to keep them until everything is worked out. That is malicious and unprofessional.

WTF! Please tell us which host this is. Everyone should stop using it. Shutting down and deleting your instance without notice, that's just unacceptable.

Agreed.

@Multipool: I hope you set up your pool again soon. Then it's going to be my primary pool again (currently I'm using continuum - very nice pool, but shares only have a utility of 1  ;) )


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 29, 2011, 02:45:24 AM
Hey Multipool!  Thanks for releasing your source, this is pretty exciting. I've been trying to get it up and running on my system this evening.

I've edited the URLs / IPs in Multipool.py for my local LAN.

I'm currently getting the following error in my log when trying to start things up for the first time:
Code:
starting pool from scratch (no data file provided)
starting pool status monitor
monitoring pools
starting getwork daemon
connection error to solo (p=0.50): 500 Internal Server Error
starting pool rewards and transactions monitor
connection error to solo (p=1.00): 500 Internal Server Error
connection error to solo (p=1.50): 500 Internal Server Error
connection error to solo (p=2.00): 500 Internal Server Error
starting rpc server daemon
connection error to solo (p=2.50): 500 Internal Server Error
main thread online Tue Jun 28 22:31:32 2011
thread 4: rpc daemon online
thread 1: status monitor online
thread 3: reward monitor online
thread 2: getwork daemon online
thread 5: website daemon online
0 users (0 active): hashrate=0 Mhash/s getworks=/min (queue size=30) shares=/min stale=/min
starting website
connection error to solo (p=3.00): 500 Internal Server Error
connection error to solo (p=3.50): 500 Internal Server Error
connection error to solo (p=4.00): 500 Internal Server Error
...lots more connection errors to solo...

I've tried restarting bitcoind, which didn't seem to help.  If bitcoind isn't running, it dies sooner with 'cannot communicate with bitcoind' (or something to that effect).

I tried changing some of the ports (I prefixed all of $port, $website_port, and $longpoll_port with an additional '1'), and the Multipool server started up cleanly once and seemed to be able to connect to all the other servers I have configured just fine.  I was able to connect my miner and submit shares.

While the server was running, I tried to browse to the local Multipool website (with the updated website_port) to check stats, and got:
Code:
404 Not Found
edit: I think this 404 was because I missed one edit, where you have something about tor exit.

After that, I ctrl+C'd to shut things down and it seemed to shut down cleanly.  Trying to start up again with the exact same commandline params, and I'm back to the 'connection error to solo' issues.

Any ideas on the solo issue?  FWIW, I'd be fine with (prefer, actually....) no solo mining and I can just configure something else [a PPS pool?] as a static fallback...



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 29, 2011, 05:44:05 AM
Code:
404 Not Found
edit: I think this 404 was because I missed one edit, where you have something about tor exit.
Oh right, you need an index.html file for the homepage. Uploaded a simple one to github. Comment out the stuff about tor. All the /user/ pages are dynamically generated though.

I'm currently getting the following error in my log when trying to start things up for the first time:
Code:
connection error to solo (p=0.50): 500 Internal Server Error
You need a line for the "solo" pool in your accounts.conf file, listing your bitcoind username and password (same as in bitcoind.conf, but a second time). You could probably use another pool's login info, as long as you change the "solo" address in pools.conf. The solo pool is used to serve getworks when all other pools are slow/unavailable. These requests are blocking though, so make sure your default pool doesn't go down and has good responsiveness.

If you do decide to remove the solo pool entirely, comment out these lines:
Code:
569: # $do_send{"solo"}=$pools{solo} if $solo_queue->pending<$WORK_QUEUE_SIZE/4;
438: # $longpoll_send++ if $pool->{name} eq "solo";
uncomment 439: $longpoll_send++ if (!$switched_pools and $ranked_pools[0] and $pool->{name} eq $ranked_pools[0]->{name});
replace 1531-2:
    if ($lawful){
    $pair = $work_queue->dequeue_nb;
with:
    if ($lawful or 1){
    $pair = $work_queue->dequeue;
replace 1663-4:
    if ($lawful){                                                                                                         
    $pair = $work_queue->dequeue_nb;
with:
    if ($lawful or 1){                                                                                                         
    $pair = $work_queue->dequeue;

Edit:  And you received notice at least 24 hours prior to the pool shutting down on Friday the 24th of June during the evening in whatever time zone you are in.  You posted twice on the 25th and once on the 26th, neglecting both days to inform people of the potential issue?
I don't check every single email account every single day, particularly not on weekends or days that I'm not specifically working on Multipool. Also, Multipool is as much hosted in Taiwan as bitcoins.lc is hosted in the Caribbean.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 29, 2011, 07:09:54 AM
I managed to get it up and running, but the getwork thread fails to execute:

Quote
Thread 2 terminated abnormally: Invalid value for shared scalar at /usr/share/perl/5.10/Thread/Queue.pm line 90, <GEN4> line 11.

Any help with that?

Edit: I updated Thread::Queue CPAN module and now it works! I have other problem though: when requesting /user/BITCOIN_ADDRESS from the server, I always get "404 not found" message.

Edit 2: Resolved that one as well. It required a change in the code, on line 1303 you have to replace multipool.hpc.tw with an hostname you use. It works great so far, thanks!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 29, 2011, 10:19:26 AM
One question:

Quote from: README
To pay users, create a "main" account, move funds to it, and run:
./Multipool.pl save/`ls -t save|head -n1` getpayouts | tee pay
bitcoind sendmany main `cat pay` payout

From what I understand - I have to manually move the funds from all accounts associated to the pools to "main" account, and then execute these commands? Is there any automatic way to do this? And do you use a cron script for running this periodically?

Also, please post your Bitcoin address in the first post so we can donate to you! :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on June 29, 2011, 10:39:50 AM
We could extend the script to send the necessary requests for payouts (usually a button to click --> POST request to the pool website) to each pool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 29, 2011, 12:46:05 PM
I'm currently getting the following error in my log when trying to start things up for the first time:
Code:
connection error to solo (p=0.50): 500 Internal Server Error
You need a line for the "solo" pool in your accounts.conf file, listing your bitcoind username and password (same as in bitcoind.conf, but a second time). You could probably use another pool's login info, as long as you change the "solo" address in pools.conf. The solo pool is used to serve getworks when all other pools are slow/unavailable. These requests are blocking though, so make sure your default pool doesn't go down and has good responsiveness.

If you do decide to remove the solo pool entirely, comment out these lines
...

I did have the solo line in my accounts.conf -- I think that error was a result of my having recently installed bitcoind on this server, and it still needing to catch up on downloading the previous blocks before it would process the requests that Multipool sent its way.

Last night, bitcoind was using 50-75% CPU (and not working with Multipool).  This morning, it's almost completely idle (and works consistently with Multipool).

Thanks also for the tips about the possibility of removing the solo pool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 29, 2011, 12:49:59 PM
Unless you have a few GH/s to throw at it, I'd disable the solo pool, as it will not give you profits for weeks and just "waste" GPU cycles :).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on June 29, 2011, 01:36:02 PM
I think we'll need to move the pool specific functions ([poolname]_rewards) to the pools.conf file, to be a bit more portable/extendable... Maybe something like a "plugin" system.

Unfortunately I didn't yet code a lot in Perl and porting all this stuff to Python is a task for later (at least for me). Would be great to at least have a proper git repo etc. running!
Instead of solo something like Eligius with PPS + nearly 0 fees would be interesting (if people don't exploit it by withholding winning shares that is...) or maybe even namecoin.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: MiningBuddy on June 29, 2011, 03:52:05 PM
hmm, what happened to the git repo? Seems to have been deleted.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on June 29, 2011, 04:15:56 PM
There is no git repo as it seems... only downloads


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: MiningBuddy on June 29, 2011, 04:29:50 PM
There is no git repo as it seems... only downloads
Ah, sorry.. I had a brain fart.  ::)

https://github.com/multipool/Multipool/downloads for anyone else that might be looking for the files.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 29, 2011, 05:21:55 PM
I've managed to get the Multipool software running on my server to my satisfaction.  After a few spot checks, the accepted share rate from my miner connecting to my Multipool clone is about where I expect it to be.

While Multipool (the user) has graciously made Multipool (the software) open-source, it seems like something a lot of people aren't going to have the patience (or an available server) to set up.  With pool hopping now available fairly easily available to everyone, (IMO) you'd be crazy to mine on a proportional pool without pool hopping.

Since I'm going to be running a Multipool clone anyway for my own personal use, I figured I would offer access to the community for anyone who is interested in using a Multipool clone, but doesn't want to deal with setting it up.  

I'll do what I can to provide good uptime (after all, I'm using this for my personal mining as well), but the only promise I can make is that I'm not going to intentionally screw you over :)  I'll make payments as often as is practical.

Server: multiclone.us.to
Mining Port: 18337
Website Port: 18080  (which makes the stats webpage available at http://multiclone.us.to:18080/ (http://multiclone.us.to:18080/))

Just like with the original Multipool, there's no need for registration or anything -- you just connect to the pool with a Bitcoin address as the username, and anything for the password.

Example mining command:
Code:
./phoenix.py -u http://17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf:x@multiclone.us.to:18337 DEVICE=0 VECTORS BFI_INT -k phatk

If anyone wants to help test this by throwing some hashes at the server, I would be much obliged.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Zoomer on June 29, 2011, 05:38:15 PM
I started on the multipool the day before it went down, so this is awesome. Probably have about a thousand pending shares. Wonder what 14CFNKinKKZ9fjaEbrGJ4PqBSZ28trx9FN has?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: freedominnumbers on June 29, 2011, 06:27:27 PM
200Mh online.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 29, 2011, 09:12:00 PM
I experience one problem. After running the Multipool server for few hours, it slows down. The output in the console slows down and then workers are experiencing idle times. Restarting the server helps. Is this a memory leak, or maybe the log file slows whole thing down? Anyone noticed it?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 29, 2011, 09:17:30 PM
200Mh online.

Thanks!  From what I can see, it looks like things are working well for you+me+2-3 other users so far.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 29, 2011, 09:37:17 PM
I managed to get it up and running, ...
Edit 2: Resolved that one as well. It required a change in the code, on line 1303 you have to replace multipool.hpc.tw with an hostname you use. It works great so far, thanks!
Great to hear the pool works for other people as well!

I experience one problem. After running the Multipool server for few hours, it slows down. The output in the console slows down and then workers are experiencing idle times. Restarting the server helps. Is this a memory leak, or maybe the log file slows whole thing down? Anyone noticed it?
The pool worked fine for several days at a time with ~30 users connected. What is the cpu/memory usage for Multipool.pl and bitcoind?

There is one correction I should make. On line 520 replace:
Code:
my $pool_name=$ranked_pools[$i]->{name};
with
Code:
my $pool_name=$pool->{name};
. It is some threading race issue I was working on which crashes the pool once a day or so.

I think we'll need to move the pool specific functions ([poolname]_rewards) to the pools.conf file, to be a bit more portable/extendable... Maybe something like a "plugin" system.

Unfortunately I didn't yet code a lot in Perl and porting all this stuff to Python is a task for later (at least for me). Would be great to at least have a proper git repo etc. running!
Instead of solo something like Eligius with PPS + nearly 0 fees would be interesting (if people don't exploit it by withholding winning shares that is...) or maybe even namecoin.
I'll configure the repo properly at some point. The computer I used didn't have git, and I was surprised to find out that github doesn't have any web upload interface that I could see, besides the "downloads" button. The poolname_rewards functions can indeed probably be moved into separate files for easier sharing, along with whatever is in pools.conf presently. Just remember that poolname_rewards is not critical for single miners, since everything necessary for pool hopping is already contained in pools.conf.

Quote from: README
To pay users, create a "main" account, move funds to it, and run:
./Multipool.pl save/`ls -t save|head -n1` getpayouts | tee pay
bitcoind sendmany main `cat pay` payout
From what I understand - I have to manually move the funds from all accounts associated to the pools to "main" account, and then execute these commands? Is there any automatic way to do this? And do you use a cron script for running this periodically?

Also, please post your Bitcoin address in the first post so we can donate to you! :)
I was too hesitant to set the payouts on automatic, since that is the one single step that is irreversible in case of any miscalculations. As it is, there are only two commands to run, with a pause in between to allow you to glance over the numbers to see that they are sensible. And moving btc gold from account to account... builds strength. You can definitely automate all these steps in a cron script if you are more fearless ;). Also, I don't beg, and neither did I do this for btc.

Unless you have a few GH/s to throw at it, I'd disable the solo pool, as it will not give you profits for weeks and just "waste" GPU cycles :).
You misunderstand: the solo pool isn't there to "waste" your GPU cycles on solo mining, it is there to ensure that you do not waste your GPU cycles. It is probably unlikely that you will run into this problem as a single miner, but there have been times for Multipool when enough pools went down/had insufficient responsiveness that Multipool was unable to pull enough getworks to satisfy all the connected miners. If not for solo shares, those miners would have been idling. Solo shares also mitigate the harm that uncooperative miners can do (see "user_lawful" function). In normal operations, the only time you, as a single miner, will ever receive solo shares is at the very beginning, before multipool has had time to connect to the other pools.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 29, 2011, 10:45:05 PM
There is one correction I should make. On line 520 replace:
Code:
my $pool_name=$ranked_pools[$i]->{name};
with
Code:
my $pool_name=$pool->{name};
. It is some threading race issue I was working on which crashes the pool once a day or so.

When making this tweak, I noticed some nearby code specific to Slush that seems to handle multiple workers.  Did you find it necessary/beneficial to have multiple workers configured for each pool?  Just for Slush?  Is there any special syntax needed for specifying additional workers in the accounts.conf file, or do I just have multiple line-entries for Slush?

Multiclone is up to about 3-4 GHash/sec now, and seems to be handling things beautifully.  Total CPU load average on the server is under 7%.  Looks like there's room in the pool for everyone; jump on in! :)

Did a quick reboot of the pool to enable to tweak, expecting to see a disconnected/reconnecting message, but the process was so quick my miner didn't even seem to notice.  Looked like everyone who had been connected successfully reconnected after the restart.  Cool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 29, 2011, 10:56:12 PM
@Multipool:

One potential issue I noticed when I was testing locally before opening this up to everyone else...

I had thrown the 'production' switch, which caused the work queue entries to start out at 30, but was only testing with about 300MHash/sec.  Occasionally (presumably after a new round began on the current pool or something), I would get dozens of invalid shares in a row from that pool.  Decreasing the work queue size seemed to mitigate the issue somewhat.

I occasionally saw work queue 'purge' messages going by in the log, but never noticed a non-zero number of entries being purged during these rejection streaks.

I noticed it in particular from Mt. Red, to the extent that I ended up disabling them as a target pool (and I don't specifically remember if it occurred on other pools or not), so it may have been a pool-specific thing, but I thought I'd mention it.

If you feel like explaining it, how is the work queue purging determined?  I know that Multipool-the-server implements Long Polling.  What about Multipool-the-client? 


aside:
For anyone running Multipool locally/with a fairly small hash rate, I might suggest decreasing the 'production' work queue size which defaults to 30 queue entries (around line 43) to avoid similar issues.  OTOH, maybe this is a non-issue and I was just having problems with Mt. Red.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on June 29, 2011, 11:36:38 PM
What license is the code under?

I've downloaded it and started rewriting some ugly bits, removing embedded defaults, using JSON for the config files, etc.

I would like to make my changes available, but would rather know the license they'd be supposed to be under.

I'd then be putting the changes on Github as soon as I get them done, and I know which license they're supposed to be under.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Zoomer on June 30, 2011, 12:03:24 AM
Multipool, are you going to be bringing the pool at hpc.tw back up or will you defer to Multiclone? I need some help to make up for the lost shares.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on June 30, 2011, 12:16:07 AM
What license is the code under?

I've downloaded it and started rewriting some ugly bits, removing embedded defaults, using JSON for the config files, etc.

I would like to make my changes available, but would rather know the license they'd be supposed to be under.

I'd then be putting the changes on Github as soon as I get them done, and I know which license they're supposed to be under.

Nice :)

Thought about forking a pool version and a stand alone client? The stand alone wouldn't need as much in config and might be easier for some folks (ahem) to set up.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: iopq on June 30, 2011, 02:30:57 AM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 30, 2011, 02:51:56 AM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors

Working for me and at least 5 other people right now.

Post your full miner string?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: iopq on June 30, 2011, 03:11:52 AM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors

Working for me and at least 5 other people right now.

Post your full miner string?
poclbm.exe --user=1HHroZyBvQQtsp6bSyQ9rpYgDpN2RoTrUM --pass=pass -o multiclone.us.to -p 18080 --device=1 --platform=0 --verbose -v -w128 -f30


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on June 30, 2011, 03:16:13 AM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors

Working for me and at least 5 other people right now.

Post your full miner string?
poclbm.exe --user=1HHroZyBvQQtsp6bSyQ9rpYgDpN2RoTrUM --pass=pass -o multiclone.us.to -p 18080 --device=1 --platform=0 --verbose -v -w128 -f30

mining port is 18337, not 18080(that's the website port)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: iopq on June 30, 2011, 03:27:00 AM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors

Working for me and at least 5 other people right now.

Post your full miner string?
poclbm.exe --user=1HHroZyBvQQtsp6bSyQ9rpYgDpN2RoTrUM --pass=pass -o multiclone.us.to -p 18080 --device=1 --platform=0 --verbose -v -w128 -f30

mining port is 18337, not 18080(that's the website port)
thanks, that fixed it


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: JDog on June 30, 2011, 04:12:50 AM
Hey guys, I hope you can help with this one.

I'm trying to set up Multipool on a Win7 machine (yes, I'm a masochist), and things seem to be more or less working.  I can see Multipool connecting to the regular pools and get shares.  I can see my miner connect to it, but for some reason the miner never receives any shares from Multipool.  The miner sits connected, but idle and no errors on either side.  I've played around with ports and I'm sure it's connecting properly (firewall deactivated and such), but I just can't get the miner to get any shares.

I'm a coding 'hobbiest', but I've learned Perl in the last 48 hours for this project.  I understand about 1/2 of what the code does, but I can't find the section that assigns shares to the workers.  It could be a porting issue (had to change several lines to make it work with wget for windows), could be a config error(IP addresses or such), could be who the heck knows what??

I don't know what other kind of information anyone would need to help me, but I'm grasping at straws at this point.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 30, 2011, 04:46:52 AM
I had thrown the 'production' switch, which caused the work queue entries to start out at 30, but was only testing with about 300MHash/sec.  Occasionally (presumably after a new round began on the current pool or something), I would get dozens of invalid shares in a row from that pool.  Decreasing the work queue size seemed to mitigate the issue somewhat.

I occasionally saw work queue 'purge' messages going by in the log, but never noticed a non-zero number of entries being purged during these rejection streaks.

If you feel like explaining it, how is the work queue purging determined?  I know that Multipool-the-server implements Long Polling.  What about Multipool-the-client? 

For anyone running Multipool locally/with a fairly small hash rate, I might suggest decreasing the 'production' work queue size which defaults to 30 queue entries (around line 43) to avoid similar issues.  OTOH, maybe this is a non-issue and I was just having problems with Mt. Red.
Anyone running multipool locally will be satisfied leaving the $production switch set to false. Setting it to true does precisely the things like increasing the work queue size and rewriting all the addresses to external, rather than 127.0.0.1.

The work queue size expands or shrinks slowly to meet demand - it stores about 15 seconds worth of shares. When work is received from a pool with a different prev_block hash than before (substr($work->{data}, 16, 8)), all the work in the queue with the previous hash (including work from all other pools) is purged. About this time is also when longpoll is sent. The exact timing is a bit complicated, because while the pools typically, but not always, all work on the same block, the switching from one block to the next can happen up to 20 seconds apart between pools. So while you might have received a new share (and purged all old shares) from one pool, you might still receive shares with the old block hash from another pool for up to 20 seconds. Most of these shares will be rejected as stale once they are actually solved, so there is still some room for improvement in this area. Also, you don't want to send a longpoll signal ten times in 20 seconds, so you need a way to prevent double longpolls. For now, Multipool only sends longpoll when its own bitcoind reports a block hash change, but this could also be based on a cooldown timer.

I'm trying to set up Multipool on a Win7 machine (yes, I'm a masochist), and things seem to be more or less working.  I can see Multipool connecting to the regular pools and get shares.  I can see my miner connect to it, but for some reason the miner never receives any shares from Multipool.  The miner sits connected, but idle and no errors on either side.  I've played around with ports and I'm sure it's connecting properly (firewall deactivated and such), but I just can't get the miner to get any shares.

I'm a coding 'hobbiest', but I've learned Perl in the last 48 hours for this project.  I understand about 1/2 of what the code does, but I can't find the section that assigns shares to the workers.  It could be a porting issue (had to change several lines to make it work with wget for windows), could be a config error(IP addresses or such), could be who the heck knows what??

I don't know what other kind of information anyone would need to help me, but I'm grasping at straws at this point.
Amazing that it actually runs! I had imagined the biggest problem with the porting would have been the sockets. Perl on Windows possibly doesn't implement all socket features, like maybe nonblocking mode, or the can_read function of IO::Select. Look in the rpc_server_alt function that handles all client connections. There is a big while loop which iterates over all connected clients, reads any request data available up to that point, and then sends response data when sufficient request data (such as basic authentication) has been obtained. Trace the execution of this loop to see what runs normally and at what exact point the execution gets stuck.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 30, 2011, 04:54:11 AM
Hm... I'm still left with some questions. One thing is - is it normal that I see *many* rpc calls per second? I mean, calls like this:

Code:
got work 6c1ea670 b5d42a84 from deepbit (t=0.070/0.082 s/g=0/14 old=32/2209 p=0.00)
got work 6c1ea670 259bd031 from mtred (t=0.118/1.508 s/g=0/12 old=3/44 p=0.00)
got work 6c1ea670 dde84185 from btcmine (t=0.154/0.157 s/g=0/8 old=30/3192 p=0.00)
rpc connection opened from 83.26.173.182:52750
rpc authorization from 83.26.173.182:52747: user=--- pass=x
rpc getwork from 83.26.173.182:52747 (deepbit 6c1ea670 dddc356d) queue: 15/103w 0so 0sh
got work 6c1ea670 3128bc4f from deepbit (t=0.082/0.082 s/g=0/15 old=32/2209 p=0.00)
rpc connection opened from 83.26.173.182:33185
rpc authorization from 83.26.173.182:52750: user=--- pass=x
rpc getwork from 83.26.173.182:52750 (btcmine 6c1ea670 c25c0819) queue: 15/103w 0so 0sh
got work 6c1ea670 6eda19aa from mtred (t=0.106/1.368 s/g=0/13 old=3/44 p=0.00)

I only use two workers so I assumed that it would not generate much traffic, and then it does :).

My other question is - will you still be working on this project? I already saw an error in the log while parsing rewards, probably for BTCMine. I've looked at the rewards functions, but they are somewhat complicated and I doubt I'll manage to fix that myself without breaking something :).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: rb2k on June 30, 2011, 05:12:54 AM
Another thing I notice is a lot of those:

Code:
connection timeout to eligius-eu (p=0.49)
connection timeout to btcmine (p=30.00)
connection timeout to btcguild (p=30.00)


Seems a bit strange


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 30, 2011, 05:14:32 AM
BTC Guild is offline sometimes, depending on which server do you use (they have several). Eligius also likes being down from time to time. Don't know about BTCMine.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on June 30, 2011, 05:32:16 AM
And eligius-eu is no more. The new url is in the eligius thread in Pools.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 30, 2011, 05:47:41 AM
One more thing: I noticed that there is no reward function for bitcoins-lc, even though it is supported in the pools.conf. Does that mean that the script won't be able to distribute payments from bitcoins-lc to my workers?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 30, 2011, 05:51:46 AM
Hm... I'm still left with some questions. One thing is - is it normal that I see *many* rpc calls per second? I mean, calls like this:

Code:
got work 6c1ea670 b5d42a84 from deepbit (t=0.070/0.082 s/g=0/14 old=32/2209 p=0.00)
got work 6c1ea670 259bd031 from mtred (t=0.118/1.508 s/g=0/12 old=3/44 p=0.00)
got work 6c1ea670 dde84185 from btcmine (t=0.154/0.157 s/g=0/8 old=30/3192 p=0.00)
rpc connection opened from 83.26.173.182:52750
rpc authorization from 83.26.173.182:52747: user=--- pass=x
rpc getwork from 83.26.173.182:52747 (deepbit 6c1ea670 dddc356d) queue: 15/103w 0so 0sh
got work 6c1ea670 3128bc4f from deepbit (t=0.082/0.082 s/g=0/15 old=32/2209 p=0.00)
rpc connection opened from 83.26.173.182:33185
rpc authorization from 83.26.173.182:52750: user=--- pass=x
rpc getwork from 83.26.173.182:52750 (btcmine 6c1ea670 c25c0819) queue: 15/103w 0so 0sh
got work 6c1ea670 6eda19aa from mtred (t=0.106/1.368 s/g=0/13 old=3/44 p=0.00)

I only use two workers so I assumed that it would not generate much traffic, and then it does :).

My other question is - will you still be working on this project? I already saw an error in the log while parsing rewards, probably for BTCMine. I've looked at the rewards functions, but they are somewhat complicated and I doubt I'll manage to fix that myself without breaking something :).

A work queue size of 103? Do you see like ten requests per second? That's not supposed to happen - usually it's one request every five seconds per miner. I've seen this before though - what miner version are you using? Does rebooting the server help?
And yes, I will work on the project.

One more thing: I noticed that there is no reward function for bitcoins-lc, even though it is supported in the pools.conf. Does that mean that the script won't be able to distribute payments from bitcoins-lc to my workers?
There isn't a function for bitcoins.lc yet - they don't show per-round earnings and it will require some magic to sort the rounds out.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 30, 2011, 05:56:18 AM
A work queue size of 103? Do you see like ten requests per second? That's not supposed to happen - usually it's one request every five seconds per miner. I've seen this before though - what miner version are you using? Does rebooting the server help?
And yes, I will work on the project.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm seeing. And I have the exact opposite - over time the request rate decreases. Restarting the server brings it back up.

EDIT: Now I restarted the server and the log suggests that I have queue size of 5, still I see like 10 requests per second on the screen.

Oh, and I use Multiminer. Maybe that's the culprit.

One more thing: I noticed that there is no reward function for bitcoins-lc, even though it is supported in the pools.conf. Does that mean that the script won't be able to distribute payments from bitcoins-lc to my workers?
There isn't a function for bitcoins.lc yet - they don't show per-round earnings and it will require some magic to sort the rounds out.

I guess there is now, at URL: https://www.bitcoins.lc/transactions

http://bit.ly/mhvpiy

And yes, I will work on the project.

That's great news! :). A big thank you from me.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: JDog on June 30, 2011, 06:36:23 AM
Quote
Amazing that it actually runs! I had imagined the biggest problem with the porting would have been the sockets. Perl on Windows possibly doesn't implement all socket features, like maybe nonblocking mode, or the can_read function of IO::Select. Look in the rpc_server_alt function that handles all client connections. There is a big while loop which iterates over all connected clients, reads any request data available up to that point, and then sends response data when sufficient request data (such as basic authentication) has been obtained. Trace the execution of this loop to see what runs normally and at what exact point the execution gets stuck.

So I've gone through the rpc_server_alt function and it doesn't appear to be hanging anywhere, the loop runs normally whether the worker is connected or not.  But what I did find that seemed odd, was the it moves into code that appears to process the getwork request *as the worker disconnects*.  Here's a short section of code I'm referring too.  (Can't give line numbers as the unix2dos converter added a ton of whitespace, in theory it's after line 1400)

Code:
   } else {
if ($vars->{longpoll}){
   $vars->{rec}=2;
   last;
}
$user->{getworks}++;
my $user_ip=$user->{host}; $user_ip=~s/:.*//;
my $limiter=$user_limiter{$user_ip};
my $lawful=user_lawful($limiter);
my $pair;
if ($lawful){ #only give good shares to lawful users                       <-indicative comment
   $pair = $work_queue->dequeue_nb;                                       <-confirmed code is executed only when worker is disconnecting
}
if (!$pair){
   $pair=$solo_queue->dequeue;
}
$limiter->{got_works}++ if $limiter;;
my ($work, $pool_name) = @{$pair};
{
   lock $work_dequeues;
   $work_dequeues++;
}
logd("rpc getwork from $vars->{host} ($pool_name ".substr($work->{data}, 16, 8)." ".substr($work->{data}, 72, 8).") queue: ".$work_queue->pending."/".$WORK_QUEUE_SIZE."w ".$solo_queue->pending."so ".$submit_queue->pending."sh\n");

The rpc getwork message does appear, but only when the worker disconnects.

Again, I'm not strong with my Perl, so maybe this code is only supposed to run during disconnection, but the comment and the rest of the code implies it's removing a getwork from the internal queue and giving it to the worker.  Would this be accurate?



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Multipool on June 30, 2011, 07:10:12 AM
The rpc getwork message does appear, but only when the worker disconnects.
This would be the exact result if nonblocking mode on the socket doesn't work. Blocking is turned off at line 1717:
Code:
$incoming->blocking(0);
Then check out line 1583:
Code:
while (<$c>){ #nonblocking
In nonblocking mode, this statement will slurp a whole line, or as much of a line as the server has received from the client. In blocking mode, this statement will wait for more data from the client until a whole line is available, or the socket is closed. The magic trick is that json rpc requests are not terminated by line breaks! So the loop hangs here waiting for an end-of-line that never comes, until the client closes the connection. At that point, since no more data will be available, the <$c> statement returns, the while loop iterates one final time, and the server tries to send a response through the closed socket. To make this work without nonblocking mode, you would need to use the perl read function on the socket - either read content-length characters after receiving a single empty line (the separator between the header and the content in http packets), or read a single character at a time until you get a valid full json object string. The dangers here is that some pools use chunked encoding instead of content length, and that you must trust your miners to send valid requests. A single malicious request (or even accidental network-problem-related) with a content-length header, but only partial content, will hang the entire rpc server!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: rb2k on June 30, 2011, 11:51:30 AM
@M4v3R on your multipool, all of the "earned" columns seem stuck on "pending", how do the payouts work with your multipool? :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on June 30, 2011, 12:04:06 PM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors

Working for me and at least 5 other people right now.

Post your full miner string?
How can you tell?
Only thing I see when going to multiclone.us.to is
Quote
It works!

Cannot find a lot of info on multiclone on this forum at all, any directions would be greatly appreciated.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: freedominnumbers on June 30, 2011, 12:35:37 PM
Up to 2750 shares in with 2730 pending.

The 20 non-pending are from slush and report a utility of 19.422 and efficiency of .576.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 30, 2011, 12:53:30 PM
is multiclone up? I'm getting connection errors

Working for me and at least 5 other people right now.

Post your full miner string?
How can you tell?
Only thing I see when going to multiclone.us.to is
Quote
It works!

Cannot find a lot of info on multiclone on this forum at all, any directions would be greatly appreciated.

There's no global stats or anything, and there's nothing on the default web port on the multiclone server; I can see the number of users connected in the local Multipool log.

You need to connect to http://multiclone.us.to:18080 (http://multiclone.us.to:18080) for your personal stats.  Instructions to connect to the Multiclone mining pool/server are in this post (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17970.msg302834#msg302834)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gentakin on June 30, 2011, 01:08:35 PM
And yes, I will work on the project.

Do you have any idea when multipool will be back online yet? (I know there is multiclone, and nick seems to know what he's doing.. still I want the original multipool back :D )


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on June 30, 2011, 01:20:11 PM
There's no global stats or anything, and there's nothing on the default web port on the multiclone server; I can see the number of users connected in the local Multipool log.

You need to connect to http://multiclone.us.to:18080 (http://multiclone.us.to:18080) for your personal stats.  Instructions to connect to the Multiclone mining pool/server are in this post (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17970.msg302834#msg302834)
Thank you, and my apologies for not finding that post myself.
You got my shares, Sir.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: freedominnumbers on June 30, 2011, 01:40:58 PM
Up to 2750 shares in with 2730 pending.

The 20 non-pending are from slush and report a utility of 19.422 and efficiency of .576.

Interestingly even the solo shares report a utility of less than 1. Their utility is .9.



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: OCedHrt on June 30, 2011, 02:09:03 PM
Is a high reject rate normal on multiclone? Is this because of the long queue depth? I have 106 accepted and 25 rejected. That's like 19%


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on June 30, 2011, 03:47:31 PM
Is a high reject rate normal on multiclone? Is this because of the long queue depth? I have 106 accepted and 25 rejected. That's like 19%
I'm at 46 rejected on 1350 accepted = 3.4%


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 30, 2011, 05:59:52 PM
Up to 2750 shares in with 2730 pending.

The 20 non-pending are from slush and report a utility of 19.422 and efficiency of .576.
Please remember that just like with the original Multipool, it's going to take a while for the stats to become non-pending.  It has to wait until the parent pool has fully validated and released stats for a given round.  As I understand it, there'll typically be about a 24h delay for the stats to go non-pending.

Interestingly even the solo shares report a utility of less than 1. Their utility is .9.

I tweaked the static solo utility to lower it below 1.0, thinking that would further decrease the chance of the solo pool being selected (since it's quite unlikely we'd find something in solo).  I think, however, that the solo pool is always Multipool's last choice anyway.  I should probably just make the tweak to remove the solo pool entirely.
While we're doing that, I'll try adding deepbit and mt. red back in if it seems like they behave in local testing.


Is a high reject rate normal on multiclone? Is this because of the long queue depth? I have 106 accepted and 25 rejected. That's like 19%
If you joined right before a round ended, you might see those kind of results.  Overall, Multiclone has had a rejected rate of only about 2.1% in the past 18 hours.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: freedominnumbers on June 30, 2011, 06:29:40 PM
My reject rate is 2% so far.

I have one non-pending 78 share entry for bitcoinpool which show earnings at 0 and efficiency at 0. Is this courtesy of their anti-hopping penalty siphoning off the pool's return?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on June 30, 2011, 06:56:03 PM
My reject rate is 2% so far.

I have one non-pending 78 share entry for bitcoinpool which show earnings at 0 and efficiency at 0. Is this courtesy of their anti-hopping penalty siphoning off the pool's return?
Got that too for a 349 share from bitcoinpool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on June 30, 2011, 08:31:08 PM
@M4v3R on your multipool, all of the "earned" columns seem stuck on "pending", how do the payouts work with your multipool? :)

Yes, apart from deepbit and btcguild, all my earned columns are stuck at "pending" :(


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 30, 2011, 09:31:21 PM
I'm looking into it now.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on June 30, 2011, 09:48:14 PM


http://multiclone.us.to:18080/user/?address=1H36TPKaYcqDUK4CAN9PbaTGNB8ShJtYRN


This looks rather odd from bitcoinpool:
134055   Thu Jun 30 16:34:37 2011   132   238.659   0.00000000   0.000   0.00000000

Am I mining for nothing here?





Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: hollajandro on June 30, 2011, 09:56:57 PM
Bitcoinpool will accept shares even if your login is incorrect. Credit is given to pool donations. They have seperate logins for the pool and the forums as well.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on June 30, 2011, 10:13:25 PM
This also looks very strange at slush: (look at the efficiency compared to utility/shares)

133995   Thu Jun 30 09:02:05 2011   1   1.241   0.00013483   3.719   0.00000519
133992   Thu Jun 30 08:52:06 2011   5   8.216   0.00000225   0.012   0.00000000
133991   Thu Jun 30 08:17:52 2011   6   5.891   0.00006748   0.310   0.00000000
133986   Thu Jun 30 07:52:21 2011   3   4.946   0.00008378   0.770   0.00000000


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 30, 2011, 10:22:47 PM
Bitcoinpool will accept shares even if your login is incorrect. Credit is given to pool donations. They have seperate logins for the pool and the forums as well.

ding ding ding, we have a winner!

This is entirely my fault; I had the login credentials wrong for this pool.  I just did a pool restart to fix it.

If Multiclone doesn't end up re-calculating the bitcoinpool shares with proper crediting and thus automatically include these shares in the pool payout (I don't think it will, but lets wait and see), I'll pay out for these bitcoinpool shares from my personal wallet.  Either way, bitcoinpool won't be paying me/the Multiclone pool, but I'll do what I can to make it right.

Once new rounds start to get confirmed from bitcoinpool (so I know where the brokenness starts/stops), I'll tally up your 'broken' shares and pay out at Deepbit's PPS rate.  Sound fair?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on June 30, 2011, 10:27:12 PM
This also looks very strange at slush: (look at the efficiency compared to utility/shares)

133995   Thu Jun 30 09:02:05 2011   1   1.241   0.00013483   3.719   0.00000519
133992   Thu Jun 30 08:52:06 2011   5   8.216   0.00000225   0.012   0.00000000
133991   Thu Jun 30 08:17:52 2011   6   5.891   0.00006748   0.310   0.00000000
133986   Thu Jun 30 07:52:21 2011   3   4.946   0.00008378   0.770   0.00000000

This comes from Slush (and btcmine) being score-based pools, designed to discourage pool hopping.  Actual efficiency doesn't seem to match very well with expected utility.  I've seriously considered removing them both as target pools for this reason.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on June 30, 2011, 10:36:25 PM


This comes from Slush (and btcmine) being score-based pools, designed to discourage pool hopping.  Actual efficiency doesn't seem to match very well with expected utility.  I've seriously considered removing them both as target pools for this reason.

A scoring based pool might be just what we want as last resort instead of solo mining.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on June 30, 2011, 10:41:51 PM
Once new rounds start to get confirmed from bitcoinpool (so I know where the brokenness starts/stops), I'll tally up your 'broken' shares and pay out at Deepbit's PPS rate.  Sound fair?

More than fair, since we all know it is a beta project.
I call it generous!

It wont make you rich, but it will earn you the right to think good of yourself.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 01, 2011, 01:48:24 AM
Once new rounds start to get confirmed from bitcoinpool (so I know where the brokenness starts/stops), I'll tally up your 'broken' shares and pay out at Deepbit's PPS rate.  Sound fair?

More than fair, since we all know it is a beta project.
I call it generous!

It wont make you rich, but it will earn you the right to think good of yourself.

Quite fair.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 01, 2011, 01:50:16 AM
BTW, is Eligius-EU going to the new eligius pool?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 01, 2011, 02:02:48 AM
BTW, is Eligius-EU going to the new eligius pool?

Can you update me on what's changing with Eligius (or point me somewhere that summarizes)?

I have on my to-do list: "Something's changing with Eligius??"

:-)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 01, 2011, 02:52:20 AM
BTW, is Eligius-EU going to the new eligius pool?

Can you update me on what's changing with Eligius (or point me somewhere that summarizes)?

I have on my to-do list: "Something's changing with Eligius??"

:-)

Basically, if you're aimed at  http://mining.eligius.st:8337 instead of http://eu.mining.eligius.st:8337 you'll be fine. There's no more us and eu servers from what I've read, and the payout has been revamped so as to be hopper proof - they aim to have efficiency of 1.0 for all comers. As handy a backup as solo I guess.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.msg97375#msg97375



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 01, 2011, 04:44:51 AM
Basically, if you're aimed at  http://mining.eligius.st:8337 instead of http://eu.mining.eligius.st:8337 you'll be fine. There's no more us and eu servers from what I've read, and the payout has been revamped so as to be hopper proof - they aim to have efficiency of 1.0 for all comers. As handy a backup as solo I guess.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.msg97375#msg97375

Thanks for the info.  For the time being, I took eligius out of the rotation until I can make sure it's going to work right (and, from the sound of it, adjust the utility function).

It appeared from eligius stats that despite pointing to eligius-eu, the very few shares Multiclone submitted were being routed okay to the new system.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 01, 2011, 08:12:31 AM
I'll pay out for these bitcoinpool shares from my personal wallet.  Either way, bitcoinpool won't be paying me/the Multiclone pool, but I'll do what I can to make it right.

Once new rounds start to get confirmed from bitcoinpool (so I know where the brokenness starts/stops), I'll tally up your 'broken' shares and pay out at Deepbit's PPS rate.  Sound fair?
I would say that is very generous and would be ok with me if you decide not to do this.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: iopq on July 01, 2011, 09:01:15 AM
There's no more us and eu servers from what I've read, and the payout has been revamped so as to be hopper proof
how is it hopper-proof? Why is joining at the beginning of a block NOT going to give you better efficiency under their new system?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: rb2k on July 01, 2011, 10:09:52 AM
how is it hopper-proof? Why is joining at the beginning of a block NOT going to give you better efficiency under their new system?

You could just read about it on their website: http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Shared_Maximum_PPS


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 01, 2011, 11:11:43 AM
how is it hopper-proof? Why is joining at the beginning of a block NOT going to give you better efficiency under their new system?

You could just read about it on their website: http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Shared_Maximum_PPS

I don't get how that is hopper-proof. It seems to just compensate for invalid blocks when the pool would not have funds to pay out for shares?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on July 01, 2011, 12:10:05 PM
Thanks for this great effort. Both for multipool and multiclone.
Looks like it is coming off great, i now have 2000 shares on multiclone with an eff of 1.5 and 10000 more pending after 36h with 430Mh/s. There is still a lot of solo going on though.

Three questions:

1. Can one use more than one worker on the same payoutaddress without issues?

2. All my shares on bitcoins.lc and bitmine are still pending after 36h. Bitcoins.lc pays out immedieatly after a block is found, howcome its so slow on multiclone?

3. How big is multiclone now, is there a way to see the total hash power?

/roos


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 01, 2011, 01:05:45 PM
There is still a lot of solo going on though.
I tried to tweak some things to decrease the amount of solo, but it's hard to tell if it helped.  I'm hesitant to remove solo entirely, as it's used to help prevent 'naughty' miners from trying to launch DOS attacks.  Overall since the pool reboot last night, the total number of shares to solo is only ~1.4% of the shares submitted.  It just looks like a lot in the interface, since it seems like I get just a small handful of solo shares each round, so there are a lot of table rows.  Whereas with the 'real' pools, you tend to get lots of shares for each round Multiclone decides it's profitable to participate in.

1. Can one use more than one worker on the same payoutaddress without issues?
I'm not sure about this one. Let's let Multipool reply.

2. All my shares on bitcoins.lc and bitmine are still pending after 36h. Bitcoins.lc pays out immedieatly after a block is found, howcome its so slow on multiclone?

As someone pointed out earlier, Bitcoins.lc doesn't have a rewards function written for it yet, but it's been pretty profitable so I kept it in the rotation.  So all the Bitcoins.lc shares will stay pending until I get around to writing the rewards function :)  

It looks like there's an error in the log indicating that Bitmine's rewards function is failing too, so that'll need to be fixed as well.  Hopefully Multipool can help with this when he gets a chance, since bitmine's rewards function looks a little less straightforward than some of the other pools.

3. How big is multiclone now, is there a way to see the total hash power?
No way to see the hash power from the user interface, but we've been ranging from 10-15 GHash/sec for the past day or so with 15-20ish simultaneous users.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 01, 2011, 01:08:46 PM
Do the pending shares eventually convert on Multiclone?  The 3 pools that I've got the most shares on don't show anything other than pending after mining for about 18 hours.  



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 01, 2011, 01:16:59 PM
Do the pending shares eventually convert on Multiclone?  The 3 pools that I've got the most shares on don't show anything other than pending after mining for about 18 hours.  

The rewards scrapers for bitmine and bitcoins.lc are currently inoperational, so stats (and payouts) of these pools will be delayed.  The multiclone pool is earning at them, though, so I promise you'll get your BTC eventually :)

All shares here will show 'pending' for about the first 24 hours, then will start converting in the interface (for pools except bitmine and bitcoins.lc) shortly after that.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 01, 2011, 01:36:12 PM
1. Can one use more than one worker on the same payoutaddress without issues?
I'm mining with 3 GPU's (~1200Mhash/s) on a single payout address, so far so good but don't know if it's bad for results or anything.
3. How big is multiclone now, is there a way to see the total hash power?
Wondered about that too :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 01, 2011, 02:57:48 PM
Thanks for this great effort. Both for multipool and multiclone.
Looks like it is coming off great, i now have 2000 shares on multiclone with an eff of 1.5 and 10000 more pending after 36h with 430Mh/s. There is still a lot of solo going on though.

Three questions:

1. Can one use more than one worker on the same payoutaddress without issues?

2. All my shares on bitcoins.lc and bitmine are still pending after 36h. Bitcoins.lc pays out immedieatly after a block is found, howcome its so slow on multiclone?

3. How big is multiclone now, is there a way to see the total hash power?

/roos

I'm not running with much power but only getting an eff of 0.766 :(


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: koopa on July 01, 2011, 03:55:04 PM
I've managed to get the Multipool software running on my server to my satisfaction.  After a few spot checks, the accepted share rate from my miner connecting to my Multipool clone is about where I expect it to be.

While Multipool (the user) has graciously made Multipool (the software) open-source, it seems like something a lot of people aren't going to have the patience (or an available server) to set up.  With pool hopping now available fairly easily available to everyone, (IMO) you'd be crazy to mine on a proportional pool without pool hopping.

Since I'm going to be running a Multipool clone anyway for my own personal use, I figured I would offer access to the community for anyone who is interested in using a Multipool clone, but doesn't want to deal with setting it up.  

I'll do what I can to provide good uptime (after all, I'm using this for my personal mining as well), but the only promise I can make is that I'm not going to intentionally screw you over :)  I'll make payments as often as is practical.

Server: multiclone.us.to
Mining Port: 18337
Website Port: 18080  (which makes the stats webpage available at http://multiclone.us.to:18080/ (http://multiclone.us.to:18080/))

Just like with the original Multipool, there's no need for registration or anything -- you just connect to the pool with a Bitcoin address as the username, and anything for the password.

Example mining command:
Code:
./phoenix.py -u http://17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf:x@multiclone.us.to:18337 DEVICE=0 VECTORS BFI_INT -k phatk

If anyone wants to help test this by throwing some hashes at the server, I would be much obliged.

Interesting... have chucked 320 MH/s your way to test this out. Cheers Multipool & Multiclone  ;D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 01, 2011, 04:37:46 PM
I'm not running with much power but only getting an eff of 0.766 :(

The cumulative stats at the top can be misleading, particularly if you have a bunch of pending shares still.  And given that two very profitable pools aren't converting pending to confirmed (an issue I will fix, just don't have time for a few days), that could be dragging your average down.


Aside: I'm going to be out of town/busy for the weekend, so please don't panic when I stop responding :)
I'm tentatively planning to make the first payout either on Sunday or Monday

If the pool goes down entirely, email me at: nick D0T multipool PLUS alert at gmail and I'll do what I can to bring it back up.

If that alert email address gets abused/overused, it's going to be disabled. So please don't mail me there unless it's critical :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 01, 2011, 08:07:21 PM
looks like multiclone is down at the moment from what I can tell... mining and stats.

edit:  back up now


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on July 01, 2011, 08:11:36 PM
Im mining right now with two workers, looks up to me.

My stats page works too:
http://multiclone.us.to:18080/user/?address=1H36TPKaYcqDUK4CAN9PbaTGNB8ShJtYRN


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 01, 2011, 09:26:46 PM
Yes I noticed a smal; disconnect too, up and running now again.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on July 01, 2011, 09:32:32 PM
Im actually getting a lot more stales using two workers on the same adress, ill try using two different once and see if it gets better


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: freedominnumbers on July 02, 2011, 05:05:37 AM
Update on my stats:

3,142 shares
9,307 shares w/pending
5219.496 utility (1.661201782304265 utility)
1.926 efficiency


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 02, 2011, 05:06:06 AM
Hey Nick, tweak any settings? Early days yet, but I've got really good efficiency - and 0.84 coins for just under half a day's shares (at 1Ghps):

  • Shares   10353
    Shares (w/ pending)   30279
    Utility        17766.705
    Earned      0.84515051
    Efficiency   2.252
    Collected   0.69696288
    Paid          0.00000000
    Date   Sat Jul 2 00:55:40 2011



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on July 02, 2011, 05:15:34 AM
Hey Nick, tweak any settings? Early days yet, but I've got really good efficiency - and 0.84 coins for just under half a day's shares (at 1Ghps):

Same here.

  • Shares   5430
    Shares (w/ pending)   17091
    Utility   9251.183
    Earned   0.40354059
    Efficiency   2.050
    Collected   0.34523310
    Paid   0.00000000
    Date   Sat Jul 2 01:00:06 2011

A lot of it is from early bloacks from mtred though. Sadly enough, those figures havn't come back later.

  • 134197   Fri Jul 1 11:26:44 2011   588   1115.620   0.04617583   2.166   0.00130837
    134183   Fri Jul 1 08:36:07 2011   526   967.197   0.06250170   3.278   0.00228592
    134173   Fri Jul 1 06:48:44 2011   320   639.074   0.05110191   4.405   0.00207900
    134165   Fri Jul 1 05:25:43 2011   291   628.773   0.04537920   4.301   0.00183313
    134152   Fri Jul 1 03:57:11 2011   8   2.211   0.00007583   0.261   0.00000000

Did they change to scoring or were thay just really, really lucky back then?

Complete listing is here:
http://multiclone.us.to:18080/user/?address=1H36TPKaYcqDUK4CAN9PbaTGNB8ShJtYRN

/roos



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Spacy on July 02, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
What happened to the payment for the last days of the original MultiPool? He said he will process it according to the submitted shares in the last backup files... I hope this can be addressed soon :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 02, 2011, 10:05:46 AM
What would be really helpful is a counter for earnings last 24 hours, so comparing it to other forms of mining would be easier.

Shares   14635
Shares (w/ pending)   44340
Utility   24488.369
Earned   1.11310907
Efficiency   2.098
Collected   0.91116709
Paid   0.00000000

I still don't really understand what 'utility' tells me, if someone could spend some words on that for me I would be grateful.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Zoomer on July 02, 2011, 11:38:22 AM
Looks like multiclone is down?
2011-07-02 07:36:32: Listener for "multiclone": 02/07/2011 07:36:32, Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC

Looks like it went down around 06:36:47: (EST) for me.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 02, 2011, 12:13:50 PM
Yes it's down for me too.
Seems like I can connect to server but there is no work pushed, "miner is idle".

Could someone send Nick an email at that address he gave? I am in no way qualified to do it and give him any useful info.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: rb2k on July 02, 2011, 03:32:51 PM
Could someone send Nick an email at that address he gave? I am in no way qualified to do it and give him any useful info.

I sent him an eMail.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: muyoso on July 02, 2011, 06:13:55 PM
What happened to the payment for the last days of the original MultiPool? He said he will process it according to the submitted shares in the last backup files... I hope this can be addressed soon :)

You aren't gonna see a bitcent of it.  Its been a week without so much as a peep about it.  No one seems to care.  I gave up caring and just accepted that I was scammed and not to trust new pools.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gentakin on July 02, 2011, 07:15:23 PM
You aren't gonna see a bitcent of it.  Its been a week without so much as a peep about it.  No one seems to care.  I gave up caring and just accepted that I was scammed and not to trust new pools.

It's been 4 days since Multipool came back from his/her weekend trip. I can't image he/she coded (and published) almost 3000 lines of perl just to scam the few of us. Be patient. :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: roos on July 02, 2011, 07:21:38 PM
It's been 4 days since Multipool came back from his/her weekend trip. I can't image he/she coded (and published) almost 3000 lines of perl just to scam the few of us. Be patient. :)

It want at least $10000 for 3000 lines of pearl, plus VAT. So im definetly sure you are right.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Zoomer on July 02, 2011, 07:45:52 PM
Calm down. I'm sure multipool has honorable intentions. Besides, it's kinda stupid to pull out when he did if it were a scam.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Mike 71 on July 02, 2011, 11:01:37 PM
Calm down. I'm sure multipool has honorable intentions. Besides, it's kinda stupid to pull out when he did if it were a scam.

Thats right. He could had made much more without stoping miners to connect. He just could had stopped payouts and come with an story why they didnt worked.


Or he and nick are the same person and he just started to rip us of with another account ;)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: DareC on July 03, 2011, 12:04:54 AM
I haven't been able to connect to multiclone since this morning...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 03, 2011, 12:18:48 PM
I fear we have to wait 'till it's back up again after the weekend or so.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: freedominnumbers on July 03, 2011, 07:39:47 PM
pool appears to be alive again


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 03, 2011, 08:30:40 PM
The pool software was still running, but something caused the getwork thread to die, so Multiclone had nothing to give to the clients.

Restarted the server a few hours ago, and will try to investigate the cause of the failure later this week.  Don't have much time today, and forgot that Monday's a holiday in the US when I mentioned Monday as a payout target.  I'll try to keep the server up, but I might not get around to making the payout until Tuesday.

In the meantime, I'd recommend running a backup miner in parallel with Multiclone, in case my server crashes again.  Anyone have a good link that explains how to do that with a variety of miners/configurations?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: DareC on July 04, 2011, 12:24:07 AM
I'm getting almost 1/3 of my shares rejected. That probably means a net loss for me, even with the hopping.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 04, 2011, 12:27:04 AM
I'm getting almost 1/3 of my shares rejected. That probably means a net loss for me, even with the hopping.

Same here. Probably still issues w/ the getwork function.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on July 04, 2011, 12:42:46 AM
I'm getting almost 1/3 of my shares rejected. That probably means a net loss for me, even with the hopping.
On Multiclone or with your own local pool?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: niooron on July 04, 2011, 01:33:23 AM
I have a local multipool running, but the website doesnt work. I enter localhost:8080 in the browser and it just says 404 not found. No error messages in the logs too. How do I solve this?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: DareC on July 04, 2011, 02:56:13 AM
I'm getting almost 1/3 of my shares rejected. That probably means a net loss for me, even with the hopping.
On Multiclone or with your own local pool?

On Multiclone.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 04, 2011, 02:58:52 AM
Could everyone that has set up a local Multipool (personal use only) post problems and how you solved them? These could be problems already asked and solved - it would be handy to have them all in one place. Maybe even get Multipool to add them to the first post. Cheers!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 04, 2011, 04:29:51 AM
I'm getting almost 1/3 of my shares rejected. That probably means a net loss for me, even with the hopping.
On Multiclone or with your own local pool?

On Multiclone.

<2.2% global rejection rate since the server restart earlier.  Doesn't look like a server issue...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 04, 2011, 08:11:44 AM
Hey I'm having real issues using your app, and I find it so intriguing but I just cant get it to work..

My accounts .conf file is accurate according to what you say in your README.

"solo MyBTCCode mypassword MyBTCCode mypassword"

and so on and so fourth, correct?
And also, the passwords for solo, they can be whatever I want, as long as they match in accounts.conf and bitcoind.conf right?

When I try to run

(multipool has chmod 777)
Code:
./Multipool.pl 0 run 2>&1 | tee -i log/001

I get "error unable to communicate with bitcoind"

Now, as far as i can tell, I have everything where it is supposed to be. I just dont know where bitcoind is supposed to be location? I have it in the same directiory as multipool, i have a copy in the default install directory, it is in the Finance directory. It is straight up everywhere.

I really dont know what to do, and If someone could help me fix this, it would be a major help


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 04, 2011, 09:11:39 AM
I'm getting almost 1/3 of my shares rejected. That probably means a net loss for me, even with the hopping.
On Multiclone or with your own local pool?

On Multiclone.
I've been running Multiclone for a good couple of hours now (8+) and got these stats:
6061 accepted
73 rejected
==========
1.2% rejected

Wonder when the stats for BTCmine and bitcoins-lc come in, all are pending, they take a pretty big chunk of my shares.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 04, 2011, 09:28:15 AM
Hey I'm having real issues using your app, and I find it so intriguing but I just cant get it to work..

My accounts .conf file is accurate according to what you say in your README.

"solo MyBTCCode mypassword MyBTCCode mypassword"

and so on and so fourth, correct?
And also, the passwords for solo, they can be whatever I want, as long as they match in accounts.conf and bitcoind.conf right?

When I try to run

(multipool has chmod 777)
Code:
./Multipool.pl 0 run 2>&1 | tee -i log/001

I get "error unable to communicate with bitcoind"

Now, as far as i can tell, I have everything where it is supposed to be. I just dont know where bitcoind is supposed to be location? I have it in the same directiory as multipool, i have a copy in the default install directory, it is in the Finance directory. It is straight up everywhere.

I really dont know what to do, and If someone could help me fix this, it would be a major help

Is your bitcoind running? Where it's located shouldn't matter.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 04, 2011, 10:25:29 AM
I actually got it figured out. My new question is why is my hash rate always zero? Am I supposed to run this application in tandem with another program?
I thought this was an all in one miner and everything.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: rb2k on July 04, 2011, 10:42:43 AM
I actually got it figured out. My new question is why is my hash rate always zero? Am I supposed to run this application in tandem with another program?
I thought this was an all in one miner and everything.

It's just a "proxy" that will forward work from different pools depending on where it should be the most valuable.
You'll still need to run a miner and point it a multipool.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 04, 2011, 12:13:17 PM
When I try to do that with DiabloMiner it says I dont have openCL isntalled. Then I try to install openCL and it gives me a shit load of errors.
There has to be a simple way of installing OpenCL in ubuntu linux besides using ATI Stream SDK (http://developer.amd.com/sdks/AMDAPPSDK/downloads/Pages/default.aspx)
right?
And what miner should I use? The ones iv been trying to use have been unsuccessful. I'm getting pretty frustrated.

Can someone PM me so we can trade IM addresses for one on one help?

Thanks


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 04, 2011, 12:35:10 PM
Have you tried Phoenix as a miner?
And why don't you want the ATI Stream SDK installed? (Beware of the license agreement you have to accept).


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 04, 2011, 12:49:11 PM
I'm perfectly fine with installing it. I'm saying that it wont let me install it. I get errors when I type "sudo make"  in the "AMD-APP-SDK-V2.4-lnx32" folder. I cant use the make file to install the stupid app. Unless I'm just straight up missing something


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: happyface on July 04, 2011, 01:41:07 PM
I've mined about 12,000 shares in roo's multiclone over the past 5 days. Tons of rounds from June 29th are still pending, is it normal to pend for 5 days?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 04, 2011, 11:01:26 PM
OK.
I think I have everything working. The diablominer is running, says
Code:
mhash 328.9/336.9 | accept: 0 | reject: 0 | hw error: 0
 

The multipoll is doing its thing but it says

Code:
thread 4: rpc daemon online
thread 1: status monitor online
thread 3: reward monitor online
thread 2: getwork daemon online
thread 5: website daemon online
0 users (0 active): hashrate=0 Mhash/s getworks=0/min (queue size=5) shares=0/min stale=0/min
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
monitor thread - pool preference: 1=mtred, 2=bitcoins-lc, 3=deepbit
submit queue (size=0):

Does that mean its working??  I see a lot of "0 actives" in there.

Help?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: M4v3R on July 04, 2011, 11:12:37 PM
I've mined about 12,000 shares in roo's multiclone over the past 5 days. Tons of rounds from June 29th are still pending, is it normal to pend for 5 days?

This. Especially shares from bitcoins-lc and btcmine are still on pending status.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 05, 2011, 12:49:24 AM
And I would also like to know how I can view my current wallet value, and if this method I am using (multi pool + diablomining) has a cash out system?  Is it automatic?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: happyface on July 05, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
Well multiclone is down. Looks like he got 1 BTC from me :/

EDIT: Back up, but I still have 5000 shares pending from the 29th


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 05, 2011, 12:56:55 AM
Can someone create a new configuration file with a bunch more mining site logins?

Specifically triple mining and the other larger type sites. I would do it myself but I suck at perl..


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 05, 2011, 07:46:26 AM
Seems like more pools are down, like BTCguild:
Code:
Temporarily disabled while being DDoS'd.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Grinder on July 05, 2011, 03:26:36 PM
It would be nice with a status report, nick5429. What's up with all the pending shares, and when will you start paying out the rewards?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: niooron on July 05, 2011, 03:58:48 PM
You guys should just run a local pool, its easy to setup since all dependencies are at CPAN, and you keep everything.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 05, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
I asked the original poster what license was the code under, as I started rewriting bits of it to be more.. Perlish.. and wanted to be able to release my modifications under the proper license.
I ended up ripping off completely the part that distributes to accounts, and had been running it for a while locally. All was good.
Unfortunately I kept getting a high number of stales/rejections due to the network code that deals with sending proof of work, which is a bit awkward..

I had been thinking of writing something similar using more modern modules like AnyEvent, but lacked the time. Will likely do this if there is enough want.

On the other hand, I went instead to a simpler system which periodically checks which is the best pool to switch to, kills the miner and has it switch to the chosen pool.

I don't think everybody needs both the pool-hopping *and* the shares distribution: I'd be creating the pool hopping thing only, for one to use with their own miners.

I am not entirely sure if the idea of having multipool sites "up" would create problems for the pools, as a number of GHash suddenly start hopping from one to the next.. with what has been happening as of late with DDOSes on the pools..

Still, if anybody is running multipool locally and needs a hand with some small fixes to the current multipool code, I'd be happy to oblige -- PM me for info.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 05, 2011, 04:43:37 PM
You guys should just run a local pool, its easy to setup since all dependencies are at CPAN, and you keep everything.
Would love to, need some linux skills to do so it seems, which I lack.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: niooron on July 05, 2011, 05:50:53 PM
You guys should just run a local pool, its easy to setup since all dependencies are at CPAN, and you keep everything.
Would love to, need some linux skills to do so it seems, which I lack.

Install virtual box, a linux distro, download the dependencies from CPAN, and youre done. I have a fedora 14 vm with 384 MB of RAM and it doesn't even use 10% cpu.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: niooron on July 05, 2011, 05:52:12 PM
I asked the original poster what license was the code under, as I started rewriting bits of it to be more.. Perlish.. and wanted to be able to release my modifications under the proper license.
I ended up ripping off completely the part that distributes to accounts, and had been running it for a while locally. All was good.
Unfortunately I kept getting a high number of stales/rejections due to the network code that deals with sending proof of work, which is a bit awkward..

I had been thinking of writing something similar using more modern modules like AnyEvent, but lacked the time. Will likely do this if there is enough want.

On the other hand, I went instead to a simpler system which periodically checks which is the best pool to switch to, kills the miner and has it switch to the chosen pool.

I don't think everybody needs both the pool-hopping *and* the shares distribution: I'd be creating the pool hopping thing only, for one to use with their own miners.

I am not entirely sure if the idea of having multipool sites "up" would create problems for the pools, as a number of GHash suddenly start hopping from one to the next.. with what has been happening as of late with DDOSes on the pools..

Still, if anybody is running multipool locally and needs a hand with some small fixes to the current multipool code, I'd be happy to oblige -- PM me for info.

We need to add more pools to pool.conf. I have no idea how to parse the pools API.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 05, 2011, 06:11:00 PM
We need to add more pools to pool.conf. I have no idea how to parse the pools API.

The file pools.conf is quite straightforward; for example:

Code:
slush
api.bitcoin.cz:8332
https://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/
$time=~s/.*round_duration": "//; $time=~s/".*//; $time=parse_time($time); $rate=~s/.*ghashes_ps": "//; $rate=~s/(\.\d*)?".*//; $shares=~s/.*shares": //s; $shares=~s/,.*//s;
utility_2

The first line of a stanza is the pool's name; second is the RPC port (the one the miners use), the third is a URL which the Multipool.pl will fetch in order to gather statistics, then some code whose purpose is to get the time since last block found, total shares and total rate in GHash, and lastly the "utility" function to be used to calculate the utility for a pool.

The line of code is messy, but the idea is that it is executed in a context in which $_ (the topic variable) is aliased to the data received from the URL above, and it needs to "output" three variables:
* $time, in seconds, indicating how long ago the last block was found;
* $rate, in GHashes/s, indicating the pool's speed in GH/s
* $shares, indicating how many shares the pool has currently mined.

An example, for mineco.in:

The stats are in JSON:

Code:
 $ curl https://mineco.in/stats.json
  {"hashrate":86362247950,"users":568,"blocks_found":16,"shares_this_round":2102867,"last_block":{"found":1309779953,"user":"mau","shares":1461964,"duration":79213}}

The info we're looking for is the number after "hashrate", but it's in hashes per second so it needs to be divided by 10^6; the number after "duration" and the number after "shares_this_round".

The way you can test the line of code that goes in the config is via:

Code:
 curl URL | perl -lne' $time=$shares=$rate=$_;
     THAT LINE OF CODE HERE;
     print "Rate: $rate"; print "Time: $time"; print "Shares: $shares";   '
so for example:

Code:
 $ curl https://mineco.in/stats.json | perl -lne'
     $time=$shares=$rate=$_;
     $time=~s/^.*"duration":(\d+).*$/$1/;
     $shares=~s/^.*"shares_this_round":(\d+).*/$1/;
     $rate=~s/^.*"hashrate":(\d+).*/$1/;$rate/=10**9;
     print "Rate: $rate"; print "Time: $time"; print "Shares: $shares";   '

  Rate: 86.069951565
  Time: 79213
  Shares: 2097252
There you go :)

The stanza then becomes:

Code:
minecoin
mineco.in:3000
https://mineco.in/stats.json
$time=~s/^.*"duration":(\d+).*$/$1/; $shares=~s/^.*"shares_this_round":(\d+).*/$1/; $rate=~s/^.*"hashrate":(\d+).*/$1/;$rate/=10**9;
utility_1

Check out the different utility_ functions, but usually utility_1 seems to work fine.

If you want me to do others do not hesitate to PM me or try doing them yourselves; above I have explained how.
(edited: wrapped in code blocks)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: MiningBuddy on July 05, 2011, 06:42:22 PM
Thank you mf, excellent explanation!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 05, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
I never did get the perl CPAN dependencies squared away on two different CENTOS boxes.  Not sure where I went wrong but ran out of patience at the time.  Never could resolve whatever dependency caused

Can't locate JSON/RPC/Client.pm

I appreciate the gentleman running Multiclone but I'd like to run one myself for my own use.  I guess I need to try again sometime, perhaps with a newer distro than Centos 5



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 05, 2011, 07:06:32 PM
You guys should just run a local pool, its easy to setup since all dependencies are at CPAN, and you keep everything.
Would love to, need some linux skills to do so it seems, which I lack.

Install virtual box, a linux distro, download the dependencies from CPAN, and youre done. I have a fedora 14 vm with 384 MB of RAM and it doesn't even use 10% cpu.
I have some Fedora experience but CPAN dependencies are new to me, and would probably result in a bucketload of newb-questions coming your way.

Would it be possible to 7zip up the virtual machine and upload using a Torrent? I am pretty sure people would send you a coin for the download, I would for sure...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 05, 2011, 07:10:57 PM
I never did get the perl CPAN dependencies (...)
Can't locate JSON/RPC/Client.pm
I appreciate the gentleman running Multiclone but I'd like to run one myself for my own use.
I guess I need to try again sometime, perhaps with a newer distro than Centos 5

Why not today?

Use cpanm (http://search.cpan.org/~miyagawa/App-cpanminus-1.4008/lib/App/cpanminus.pm) to install modules -locally- rather than as root.

Example, for Multipool I created a new user, disabled password and all, got the source and then installed the dependencies in a "local lib" with cpanm.

I'll re-do bits of it for you, so you can get comfortable with the process ;)

I'll first create a new user:

Code:
root@xxx:~# adduser --disabled-password teensy
Adding user `teensy' ...
...

Switch to it:
Code:
$ su - teensy

Fetch cpanm:
Code:
teensy@xxx:~$ curl -L http://cpanmin.us > cpanm
  % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
                                 Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
100  163k  100  163k    0     0  78241      0  0:00:02  0:00:02 --:--:--  377k
teensy@xxx:~$ chmod +x cpanm

Tell it to install JSON::RPC::Client in the local ./lib directory:

Code:
teensy@xxx:~$ ./cpanm -l ./lib JSON::RPC::Client
--> Working on JSON::RPC::Client
Fetching http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/M/MA/MAKAMAKA/JSON-RPC-0.96.tar.gz ... OK
Configuring JSON-RPC-0.96 ... OK
Building and testing JSON-RPC-0.96 ... OK
Successfully installed JSON-RPC-0.96
1 distribution installed

Now, if you look under lib/ you will see there are a bunch of directories which you need added to Perl's path for libraries.
In my case, these are: lib/lib/perl5, and lib/lib/perl5/x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi.

To see it worked,

Code:
$ perl -MJSON::RPC::Client -e1
Can't locate JSON/RPC/Client.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .).
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
$ PERL5LIB="lib/lib/perl5/x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi:lib/lib/perl5" perl -MJSON::RPC::Client -e1

So, what you then can do is either:
* use that PERL5LIB= line before launching Multipool.pl, a la: $ PERL5LIB=xxxx perl Multilib.pl, or
* properly install cpanm and local::lib (search for tutorials on the web, or ask me for more info), or
* modify Multilib.pl to have " use lib './lib/lib/perl5', 'lib/lib/perl5/x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi'; " at its beginning after "use strict"

There you go :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 05, 2011, 07:15:10 PM
Would it be possible to 7zip up the virtual machine and upload using a Torrent?
I am pretty sure people would send you a coin for the download, I would for sure...

If you already have a distro setup, you can create a new user and follow the instructions I gave above for installing JSON::RPC::API in a local lib, and simply install the other prerequisite modules via it: Finance::Bitcoin::API and Math::Integral::Romberg being the other two ones I think.

In order to do that, the linux distro -does- need to have a working compiler, though.

Creating a virtual machine for this multipool looks a bit overkill to me.. :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 05, 2011, 07:17:23 PM
FWIW, I brought multiclone back up again earlier this morning.

I'm not sure what happened this time -- the server just stopped responding entirely. I couldn't even ctrl+c to kill it...

In other news, I was all set to do a payout (which would include everything except btcmine and bitcoins.lc), but am getting an error when trying to do a sendmany, even when I reduce it to its simplest case, and use way fewer digits after the decimal:

Quote
bash-4.1$  bitcoind sendmany "main" '{"17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf":0.323}' "payout"
error: type mismatch

I'm using the newest release of bitcoin.  Any ideas?

I tried building bitcoind from source, but apparently did something wrong when selecting the berkeley db version.  It compiles, but crashes on start:
Quote
bash-4.1$ ./bitcoind -daemon
bitcoin server starting
bash-4.1$

************************
EXCEPTION: 11DbException
DbEnv::open: Invalid argument
bitcoin in AppInit()

terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbException'
  what():  DbEnv::open: Invalid argument

If all else fails, I can do individual sends (rather than sendmany), but ... that's going to be a headache :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on July 05, 2011, 07:25:42 PM
Quote
bash-4.1$  bitcoind sendmany "main" '{"17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf":0.323}' "payout"
error: type mismatch

I'm using the newest release of bitcoin.  Any ideas?

Does
Code:
bash-4.1$  bitcoind sendmany "main" '{"17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf":Decimal("0.323")}' "payout"
work?

I think I saw that somewhere, but I'm not sure if this could be the reason/fault.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 05, 2011, 08:29:45 PM
Creating a virtual machine for this multipool looks a bit overkill to me.. :)
I create VM's for all kinds of things (ESXi) so that will not be the problem :)
But maybe you are right and I have to try myself... Thanks in advance for all the helpful stuff you have already written here, I will surely need it :D


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Grinder on July 05, 2011, 09:20:14 PM
Quote
bash-4.1$  bitcoind sendmany "main" '{"17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf":0.323}' "payout"
error: type mismatch

I'm using the newest release of bitcoin.  Any ideas?
It seems to be an ugly bug that only shows itself when you use certain versions of Linux. If you can use JSON to communicate with the server it should work, otherwise I think you have to try to find a different version of Linux. I saw someone say that for instance it works with Ubuntu 10.04 but not 10.10.

This thread has an example of using JSON with curl and a text file for the content: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=23776.0


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 05, 2011, 09:45:12 PM
We need to add more pools to pool.conf. I have no idea how to parse the pools API.

The file pools.conf is quite straightforward; for example:

Code:
slush
api.bitcoin.cz:8332
https://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/json/
$time=~s/.*round_duration": "//; $time=~s/".*//; $time=parse_time($time); $rate=~s/.*ghashes_ps": "//; $rate=~s/(\.\d*)?".*//; $shares=~s/.*shares": //s; $shares=~s/,.*//s;
utility_2

The first line of a stanza is the pool's name; second is the RPC port (the one the miners use), the third is a URL which the Multipool.pl will fetch in order to gather statistics, then some code whose purpose is to get the time since last block found, total shares and total rate in GHash, and lastly the "utility" function to be used to calculate the utility for a pool.

The line of code is messy, but the idea is that it is executed in a context in which $_ (the topic variable) is aliased to the data received from the URL above, and it needs to "output" three variables:
* $time, in seconds, indicating how long ago the last block was found;
* $rate, in GHashes/s, indicating the pool's speed in GH/s
* $shares, indicating how many shares the pool has currently mined.

An example, for mineco.in:

The stats are in JSON:

Code:
 $ curl https://mineco.in/stats.json
  {"hashrate":86362247950,"users":568,"blocks_found":16,"shares_this_round":2102867,"last_block":{"found":1309779953,"user":"mau","shares":1461964,"duration":79213}}

The info we're looking for is the number after "hashrate", but it's in hashes per second so it needs to be divided by 10^6; the number after "duration" and the number after "shares_this_round".

The way you can test the line of code that goes in the config is via:

Code:
 curl URL | perl -lne' $time=$shares=$rate=$_;
     THAT LINE OF CODE HERE;
     print "Rate: $rate"; print "Time: $time"; print "Shares: $shares";   '
so for example:

Code:
 $ curl https://mineco.in/stats.json | perl -lne'
     $time=$shares=$rate=$_;
     $time=~s/^.*"duration":(\d+).*$/$1/;
     $shares=~s/^.*"shares_this_round":(\d+).*/$1/;
     $rate=~s/^.*"hashrate":(\d+).*/$1/;$rate/=10**9;
     print "Rate: $rate"; print "Time: $time"; print "Shares: $shares";   '

  Rate: 86.069951565
  Time: 79213
  Shares: 2097252
There you go :)

The stanza then becomes:

Code:
minecoin
mineco.in:3000
https://mineco.in/stats.json
$time=~s/^.*"duration":(\d+).*$/$1/; $shares=~s/^.*"shares_this_round":(\d+).*/$1/; $rate=~s/^.*"hashrate":(\d+).*/$1/;$rate/=10**9;
utility_1

Check out the different utility_ functions, but usually utility_1 seems to work fine.

If you want me to do others do not hesitate to PM me or try doing them yourselves; above I have explained how.
(edited: wrapped in code blocks)


I love the guide and everything. But when I try this, my multipool tells me that minecoin is offline. I basically copied your script into the "pools.conf", opened the port and then added the minecoin info to "accounts.conf".

I was also wondering if if you can help with triplemining? Iv tried but i just get errors and problems all over because im doing it incredibly wrong.


Also, even though I removed the ser vers from the list, they still appear in the multipool terminal as trying to connect. How would I go about removing them so I can speed things up with servers that connect?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 05, 2011, 10:17:46 PM
my multipool tells me that minecoin is offline.

I am currently getting some disconnections from them, too; and several spurious rejections.
The way Multipool seems to deal with that is it pushes "down" the pool, until it considers it offline.
Could be either offline per se, or the script giving up.

I basically copied your script into the "pools.conf", opened the port and then added the minecoin info to "accounts.conf".

Just the stanza I wrote, between "minecoin" and "utility_1", I hope.
Only one newline between stanzas.

Ensure your user/pass are correct for that miner on the accounts.conf...

The script should show when it is that it's putting a pool offline, though: check the scroll / logs to see if it gave you any more info.
Again, sorry but I did not use the script as-is myself. I did modify/butcher a fair bit of it.
I still have the original which I am using to help you guys out.

I was also wondering if if you can help with triplemining? Iv tried but i just get errors and problems all over because im doing it incredibly wrong.
If you have a URL where they provide some statistics... by the cursory look I gave, there's only the "blocks found" page, which only contains information in human terms ("1 days ago")...
PM me in case you need further help; post a "solution" once you get something working.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Zoomer on July 05, 2011, 10:19:51 PM
I'm thinking we need some thread cleanup. One thread for multipool, the software, another for the pool, and yet another for multiclone.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 05, 2011, 10:20:59 PM
Also, even though I removed the ser vers from the list, they still appear in the multipool terminal as trying to connect. How would I go about removing them so I can speed things up with servers that connect?

Multipool will only read the accounts and pools at startup, so you need to kill it and start it again, if you want it to pick up new pools or remove old pools.

I think I should put more time into my replacement.. assuming there's enough interest and people aren't just using this to solo mine different pools.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Sukrim on July 06, 2011, 01:04:35 AM
And I also think we need a real OpenSource implementation...

Multipool seems to not posting any more. :-[

Anyone else up to re-code Multipool (I've started in Python but I'm not too experienced, so it's getting along far too slowly) in a really open manner to allow for a bit more collaboration/plugins?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 06, 2011, 03:02:36 AM
Do we have an expectation that the bitcoins-lc shares in multiclone will turn into actual shares? 


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Houseonfire on July 06, 2011, 04:22:24 AM
@mf

Thanks for the tips. I will give it a try and show you that I did it correctly.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 06, 2011, 05:15:05 AM
And I also think we need a real OpenSource implementation...

Multipool seems to not posting any more. :-[

Anyone else up to re-code Multipool (I've started in Python but I'm not too experienced, so it's getting along far too slowly) in a really open manner to allow for a bit more collaboration/plugins?

post what you have on github as a fork, and let folks see if they can help. Only not me, because I'm a crappy coder and I forget to remark anything.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 06, 2011, 08:08:26 AM
Do we have an expectation that the bitcoins-lc shares in multiclone will turn into actual shares? 

It is my understanding that the code that deals with the shares for bitcoins-lc needs to be rewritten for those to be distributed, as it is not current / does not scrape things correctly.

The pool owner could always pull out a spreadsheet and calculate those manually, though.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 06, 2011, 09:39:17 AM
Multiclone was down for a bit, back up now.

How's that mass payout thing going, Nick?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 06, 2011, 03:47:47 PM
Would it be possible to 7zip up the virtual machine and upload using a Torrent?
I am pretty sure people would send you a coin for the download, I would for sure...

If you already have a distro setup, you can create a new user and follow the instructions I gave above for installing JSON::RPC::API in a local lib, and simply install the other prerequisite modules via it: Finance::Bitcoin::API and Math::Integral::Romberg being the other two ones I think.

In order to do that, the linux distro -does- need to have a working compiler, though.

Creating a virtual machine for this multipool looks a bit overkill to me.. :)

Thanks for your suggestions-  I've almost got it working (pending database download I think).

The requirement to have a working compiler is pretty key.  :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 06, 2011, 09:10:29 PM
Does
Code:
bash-4.1$  bitcoind sendmany "main" '{"17x6iXEGfE94VnDwUMS1E5fii3FEqXLrEf":Decimal("0.323")}' "payout"
work?

I think I saw that somewhere, but I'm not sure if this could be the reason/fault.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work either :(

I just applied a little regex magic to turn my sendmany command into 40-something individual sends.  Cost me more in transaction fees, but oh well.  I tried to turn down the transaction fee in my client ("bitcoind settxfee 0.00001", which returned 'true'), but it stayed at 0.0005 for all the sends. *shrug*

That means the first round of payments for multiclone is out!  Everyone with a balance over ~0.03 should have received their payout.  Sent out ~20BTC in total.

I'm hoping to have some time this coming weekend to write the needed code for the two pools that aren't scraping/converting right.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 06, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
my multipool tells me that minecoin is offline.

I am currently getting some disconnections from them, too; and several spurious rejections.
The way Multipool seems to deal with that is it pushes "down" the pool, until it considers it offline.
Could be either offline per se, or the script giving up.

I can't get the example for mineco.in to work either.  Running it through perl on the commandline puts out the expected results but within multicoin, I get:

Code:
bad parse on pool minecoin (rate=142.572632437 shares=83662 time=2877):
{"hashrate":142572632437,"users":603,"blocks_found":22,"shares_this_round":83662,"last_block":{"found":1309984570,"user":"Zadet","shares":88249,"duration":2877}}

I've copied and recopied the example, made sure there are no extra newlines.  Any ideas?



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: mf on July 06, 2011, 09:43:34 PM
Mea culpa. The culprit is the following:

Code:
        if (!($time=~/^\d+$/ and $rate=~/^\d+$/ and $shares=~/^\d+$/ and $rate>0 and $shares>0 and $time>0)){

Unfortunately it wants an _integer_, rather than a number with a dot, for the rate.

As such, the code should be (split it for readability):

Code:
$time=~s/^.*"duration":(\d+).*$/$1/;
$shares=~s/^.*"shares_this_round":(\d+).*/$1/;
$rate=~s/^.*"hashrate":(\d+).*/$1/;
$rate = int($rate/10**9);  # this was: $rate /= 10**9, which caused the floating point "error"

Sorry, apologies, head on a plate, etc.etc.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 06, 2011, 10:06:13 PM
I just want to confirm that I got a payment of 1BTC from nick.

Do we at least know that some of the ones that aren't reporting did pay the pool address and just need to be split once you figure out how to allocate them?  bitcoins-lc  and btcmine...


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 06, 2011, 10:14:38 PM


Sorry, apologies, head on a plate, etc.etc.

Thank you so much for your help with this.  We need a repository to keep up with working stanzas now.  :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: happyface on July 06, 2011, 10:30:16 PM
I just want to confirm that I got a payment of 1BTC from nick.

Do we at least know that some of the ones that aren't reporting did pay the pool address and just need to be split once you figure out how to allocate them?  bitcoins-lc  and btcmine...
I received a payment also. Half of the shares I put in there are still pending though :(


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Zoomer on July 07, 2011, 01:42:31 AM
Got a payment. 60% of my shares are pending. It's ok as long as I eventually get it.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 07, 2011, 07:52:13 AM
Received payment too, for which I thank you, Nick.
Multiclone is a bit shaky today, miner idle frequently.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 07, 2011, 03:06:09 PM
Received payment too, for which I thank you, Nick.
Multiclone is a bit shaky today, miner idle frequently.

I'll restart the server.  I just hopped on the logs and noticed that there's only 3 active users. Figured something was flaky =/


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Maasu on July 07, 2011, 03:43:31 PM
Is the server down? I just tried using it as everywhere seems to be getting dos'd at the moment and had very little joy.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: nick5429 on July 07, 2011, 04:58:03 PM
Is the server down? I just tried using it as everywhere seems to be getting dos'd at the moment and had very little joy.


Should be up, and seems to be working better now than it was earlier / over night.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 07, 2011, 05:11:21 PM
Yes working well again, thanks! :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: ahitman on July 07, 2011, 05:35:25 PM
nick5429, can you update us on when pending shares for some of the pools that are having issues will be updated? Also how often will you be sending out payments? Thanks!


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 07, 2011, 05:45:54 PM
Interestingly enough, I notice that my local copy of multipool was having a problem a short while ago.  I wonder if one of the pools did something that freaked it out.  Anyone else running it experience a prob?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Mike 71 on July 07, 2011, 07:30:19 PM
nick5429, can you update us on when pending shares for some of the pools that are having issues will be updated? Also how often will you be sending out payments? Thanks!
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26500.msg336705#msg336705


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: c00w on July 07, 2011, 08:31:10 PM
For those of you who had issues getting multipool working I hacked together a much simpler python bitcoin hopper proxy.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26866.0


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 08, 2011, 08:50:33 PM
Arsbitcoin is another SMPPS pool like eligius.   I like eligius as a backup but they have had a lot of issues staying online for more than a day or so at a time.

Anyone capable of working out the pools.conf entry for arsbitcoin?

How about an entry to point your local multipool at multiclone?  :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: m3ta on July 08, 2011, 11:17:12 PM
Use source code at github (https://github.com/multipool/Multipool) to run your own multipool locally!


Github has no files on that URL, so it means you're a scammer.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on July 08, 2011, 11:58:27 PM
Quote
also on github is so hard to click download button ? ... you know the button that usually let you download stuff from the interwebs

download button won't work unless javascript is allowed globally for the page. Someone forget to turn it back on, hmmm m3ta?


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 09, 2011, 08:23:36 PM
Multiclone is down  :-\


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Luke-Jr on July 09, 2011, 09:04:07 PM
Arsbitcoin is another SMPPS pool like eligius.   I like eligius as a backup but they have had a lot of issues staying online for more than a day or so at a time.
That was with failing hardware. Seems to be stable since getting Su up and running.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 10, 2011, 09:43:16 AM
Multiclone back up  :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: gno on July 10, 2011, 07:55:13 PM
Arsbitcoin is another SMPPS pool like eligius.   I like eligius as a backup but they have had a lot of issues staying online for more than a day or so at a time.
That was with failing hardware. Seems to be stable since getting Su up and running.

It sure has improved.  Great work!   

Eligius is a great pool to mine in. 


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 12, 2011, 06:15:00 AM
Got another payment, thanks Nick! :)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Folax on July 16, 2011, 02:45:35 PM
Did everybody stop mining this pool? Seems so quiet in here. ???


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: Grinder on July 16, 2011, 03:29:39 PM
Multipool is no longer up, and everyone is using this thread for Multiclone: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26500.0


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: lucates on May 19, 2014, 02:59:21 PM
WHere to get source code for multipool for web? ::)


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: audiotopix on August 25, 2015, 02:37:09 AM
Is Sha-256 merged mining with UNO only on the BitcoinXT pool? Or is it also merge mined on the standard BTC Pool???



Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: organofcorti on August 25, 2015, 02:58:10 AM
Is Sha-256 merged mining with UNO only on the BitcoinXT pool? Or is it also merge mined on the standard BTC Pool???



Wrong 'Multipool' thread. This is for the pool hopping 'Multipool' which died in 2011.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: jonnybravo0311 on August 25, 2015, 04:46:59 PM
Definitely the wrong thread, but to answer his question, UNO can be merge mined with standard Bitcoin Core nodes.  It implements auxpow.  For example, you can setup a p2pool node to merge mine a whole host of other coins, including UNO.  It's pretty trivial to do so.


Title: Re: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code)
Post by: RBCastro on September 14, 2015, 04:33:00 AM
Hello.

I would like to know, if I mine on port 3332 (BTC) I'll get the merged coins mine too or I have to mine the Bitcoin XT (3345)?


Thanks.