Bitcoin Forum

I love it watching all the losers get dethroned on TheCap  :D

Dash = #3 coin @ $32.56

Finally taking out the premined shit coin called Ripple.
Notice how they ran here making Ripple topics quick ? hahahha scared bitches  :D

2017 the scene has now changed Invstards it's a new game !

Even the ole scamtard's behind Ethereum are rushing to pump their coin scared shitless they are next ROFL

http://coinmarketcap.com/

PS:
Monero's chart looks like a limp dick @ $12  ;D

cue the Ripple dumping more coins onto the scene AGAIN coming soon LOL
(last time they unloaded 333 million to jump up the standings)

I've always been a dash believer! (and Monero) ,this is great news.
I'm still waiting for the day that list would be limited to only 5-10 coins which have value more than $1.
lol Zcash at $37 ? Did the developers lost the convincing power to the audience full of sheeps or the other way around ?

I feel sorry for that guy that bought Zcash coins at over 3 grand each coin.
That boy fat-fingered it hard LOL

I also think LTC is lookin' pretty stable as always.. fine with me.

I remember reading someone claim that was a milliBTC trade. Totally irrelevant.

May I pick your brain?  Despite being new myself, I see you post a lot and a majority I agree with, but have a hard time making my own opinion because of ALL the info.  But I would like to ask, why are all coins scams?  I see posts about Dash scam/not scam, Ethereum scam/not scam.  Why do people call all these coin scams, yet they are being used and reviewed by entities/people who are interested in their products or see a use for them.  For example, Dash and Protonmail. Moneroians will claim Dash is a scam and preach Monero, and the opposite will occur as well.  How can a coin be a scam and be 'used?'  Protonmail took the time to look into Dash vs other coins and chose them. Why would they choose a 'scam?'  

I guess what I have a hard time wrapping my brain around is why are companies like Protonmail taking the time to use a scamcoin. I don't think these companies will say, "Hey, lets use possible helpful feature even though it's a scam! And when they come out as a scam, we're gonna lose a lot of money! What a great idea right?" They are seeing a legitimate purpose regardless of 'scam.'



Also, can anyone explain how and why I currently need $30k USD to run a fucking masternode?! I.. just don't get it..

Dash's visible marketing is something other coins could take notes from.

I think (and I know this is impossible and would never happen) if every single Monero owner gave 10% of their wallets and put that into the right sort of marketing and software development (Gui's, Mobile apps, and the type of marketing that normal people see, not just crypto-nerds) they would blow Dash into the weeds.

I dont think its impossible for Dash to overtake Ethereum either.

I think theres a decent chance for Monero to get above Litecoin and Ripple.

I think its entirely possible for someone to come back and read this post 2 years from now and laugh at me for how wrong I was too!

Why would you love it?

You say dash is a scam so what exactly do you enjoy about it?

It seems according to you it is purely battle of the scam coins at the top?

Seems a strange thread,

Because in many cases lavish marketing turns out to be a complete waste of money. In fact a very good strategy not only as an investor / speculator but also as a consumer is to avoid anything that has lavish marketing like the plague.  Development and building up the fundamentals of the project  is what matters in the long run and that is what those who donate to the Monero project receive. The following quote from the Monero speculation thread illustrates why marketing can be a waste of money.


Then compare the Dash and Monero charts from August 2016 see what this means
https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_dash (https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_dash)
https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_xmr (https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_xmr)

wow what happen dash,
who is pump Dash , is time bitcoin price incraese high, but Dash incraese very high too , iam not believeable because usualy if bitcoin price incraese high all altcoin down price

It's like if Hillary won i would have been happy.
It's not about if one is perfect..
Monero has been worse all along (mainly how the users who make it etc act)
I HAVE pointed this out endlessly like a broken record too.

But yeah electing the reality TV star from The Apprentice and putting his mail order bride in the white house was retarded.. it's not about if Hillary was bad.
For one thing neither should have been nominated but when it was too late you all fucked up and voted for the bigger idiot.
Based on my experience Trump supporters are dumb and have no clue what Trump has been doing and when confronted about it they simply go into fanboy mode and attack Hillary etc.
She was the one who pointed out his rounding up Illegals and booting them was a stupid impracticable idea.
And his first action in office was an admitted poorly thought out and executed attempt on that idea.

Marketing Monero idiots ?
Nope LOL
It's about not derailing your own project shooting yourself in the foot.
Monero tard's have been working hard Over-time sabotaging their own project all along.
For one thing the lying and backroom crooked manipulation etc.

Monero = Trump
Dash = Clinton

You can have the best coin in the world on fundamentals if noone knows it exists noone will use it.

If you spend a heap of money marketing a coin with terrible fundamentals eventually the fundamentals will reveal themselves and the price will crash.

So I do agree with you to an extent, but you still need enough marketing to get enough people to know it exists to start with.

If I went to my work and asked "Who knows what Dash is", even with their marketing, I would think maybe it would be 1 or 2%, or less that have heard of it.

Noone would have heard of anything other than Dash or Bitcoin, I dont think.

If really *no-one* uses it, it is useless.  But if only the people you want to trade with use it, that's good enough I'd say.  

The thing that is missing for the moment, are anonymous distributed crypto exchanges.  Once they are around, the user base of a specific coin doesn't matter any more.  You can use any other crypto as a "back bone" to hop between cryptos and the liquidity of every crypto becomes essentially the reach of all of them.  Bitcoin could very well be the reserve currency for such kind of exchanges.

At that point, even a small coin that allows you to do what you want to, is good enough, because you're not limited to its user base.
And you can keep under the radar.

It also solves the issue of block chain bloat.  Not all transactions have to happen on the same, big block chain.  Many small coins with different block chains can handle much more transactions, than one big one.  And you really get to "distributed" that way.  No incentive to centralize, because you'd have many, many independent coins, many, many independent distributed exchanges (probably "coins" themselves) and a fully scalable distributed network that way.

@Dino
That is awful.
I never seen such a powerful post on why coin cloning is good before ROFL  :D
And WOW you are veering off into left field again.
I had to look at the topic title to be sure where the hell i am LOL

And marketing ? That is highly debatable.
What caused the explosion of Dash ? i don't know. (could have been a variety of factors)

Hell maybe it's because i have killed off Monero with my diabolical "FUD" ?
RIP Monero 2017 - "It was a thing"  8)

remember that story too. i can't believe he invested to this zcash where only the founders are going to profit. he could have just keep his btc on his wallet and wait for the price to go up god knows how much.  Dash is worth $35 this time, i thought XMR will lead the anons. they say dash is self governing though. whatever that means i'm still not into it.

Well i won't be buying or endorsing any ANON coin.
I believe them to all be on shaky legal group (my biggest issue with them)
I am just eating popcorn watching the ANON coin arms race play out..
And.. mmm yummy iGotSpots "worms" :D

This is very amusing!!! ;D

Every non-fiatised coin (that is, of which the state/central bank/financial authorities) cannot lay their hands, reverse transactions at their will and have a completely detailed overview of who did what when with it, are on the same ground.  So what are you doing in crypto and why aren't you doing it with fiat ?  The only currency that will remain legal ?

Disagree. The governments aren't organized enough to ban crypto-currency because it is global and because we hold the private keys. If they tried to do it, it would be like banning Napster. They would fail. Copies would emerge and our private keys would be honored. If they blocked the Internet, we'd use radios. Etc..

Instead the governments are going to regulate the individual. They will make it illegal for you if you don't report your activity.

That is why I say we need anonymity that is compatible with reporting.

I think @Spoetnik is of the opinion that any form of anonymity will be illegal and frowned upon by the society-at-large. But the masses are not going to tolerate having their privacy being on a public blockchain.

So we will need privacy that is compatible with reporting.

In short, both of you are wrong.  :P

But currently they (the masses) do tolerate putting any bit of their privacy on a platform owned by a corporation (facebook, google or whatever).

Isn't https://bitsquare.io/ (https://bitsquare.io/) an exchange you are looking for, or I missed your intentions? The exchange is here and is operational but barely anyone is using it.
You know why? Because anonymity is expensive. We can see that there is one BTC sell order listed on Bitsquare: 1 BTC for $1,287.13

I would rather give my ID to reputable centralized exchange than pay ~10% every time.

What alternative do we have that works well?

I use Facebook and I don't know anything to advise others to use instead. Do you?

Also those centralized sites protect the user's data against the public-at-large to some extent (but many users are angry or occasionally put off about the lack of control).

But we won't be able to compete directly against Facebook in the area where Facebook is strong.

Hahaha. It actually does! :D

Zcash and Dash are both going strong. Dash has what it takes to be what Bitcoin can't be. I've been bullish on Dash and Zcash, nice to be vidnicated. Hope it continues. I'd rather Dash growth slow down a bit until I get a master node though lol.

How come Zcahs is anywhere closer to being strong ? Remember the old times where an idiot said 1 Zcash = 10 bitcoins ? Where did that zcash theory go ? Can't wait until zcash is thrown out of that list.I will definitely buy zcash when 1O Zcash = 10 satoshis.Just as hypothetical as the main Dev's theory is.

The "works well" part is different for anyone.
For me encrypted emails "works well" to communicate with my friends and i would never open an account on facebook anymore (i had it few years ago). PGP is complicated for the masses but i can live well without sharing lolcats with them.

What i meant with my previous message is that if the masses have such a low attention for privacy and new generation will perceive this as a standard, maybe this is a sign of times and a transparent blockchain goes along with the habits and perceptions changing

I was planning to reply to you again, because I realized that I hadn't entirely addressed your original point. You beat me to it while I was eating.

When analyzing things we have to be very careful not to overgeneralize and conflate orthogonal details.

First of all, the masses aren't sharing their financial privacy on Facebook. The "lolcats" aren't their monetary transactions. Their financial history is still protected by their bank. If you suddenly asked them to put this financial history on public Facebook feeds, I think many (if not most) would balk.

Secondly, as the coming war between liberals and conservatives intensifies, I don't think people will want their financial life to be publicly scrutinized, because as we know almost everyone is a hypocrite and does some of the same things in their private life that they criticize in public.

Thirdly, people put up a public persona on these social networks, but it doesn't mean they share everything there. Not all of them would announce online that they just cheated on their wife.

Privacy isn't going away. It is fundamental to human nature. Without some privacy them social networking (in general, not just the online fad) is in a Prisoner's Dilemma which is a suboptimal game theoretical quagmire.

If we posit that people will suddenly stop being sneaky, then I don't think we understand human nature. People game their circumstances in which ever way they estimate will optimize their outcomes. Opportunity cost of not doing so.

I do agree with you that financial privacy may be ignored by many until they get burned a few times. And it may also not be (almost certainly isn't) the #1 USP of decentralized technology.

My plan isn't to use privacy as a USP to the masses, rather make it automated for them, so they don't even know they are using it. It is a USP to our speculator markets herein though.

I'll be honest, for me this price surge was completely unexpected. Monero had a hold over Dash for quite some time recently, and it was getting bad press recently. Originally, I thought it was just a pump, but it looks like it's here to stay. Better than some dead coin like litecoin. I think as govs push against cryptocurrency and become more restrictive, the interest in these coins can only go up.

"Better"? In what way is Dash better?

Oh you mean a better way to lose your lunch money speculating on price moves instead of investing in actual benefits for society?

HOLY FUCK ! Dash = $39.29

and.. Bitcoin = $1,210.51

JESUS !  :o

I want to see DASH take down Ethereum so bad LOL

#2 position coming soon guys  ;D

..what is going on in the Altcoin scene ? WTF is going on people ?

The insiders engineered some buying from themselves to ignite a pump.

Many are now jumping on board the pump train, to get some of that action. Self-feeding frenzy FOMO (fear of missing out).

Come on everybody, buy, buy, buy. This is the madness of crowds.

What? I sense a Monero supporter (don't worry, I don't support Dash, you can't criticise me for that). Actual benefits for society? I really think you are just completely missing the point. All I was saying was it's better to have a coin with new features as opposed to one that will never progress. PLEASE tell me what coin you baghold... sorry which coin you think has "actual benefits for society." This is a free market, and I'm not speculating in any way, I haven't bought or sold anything.
Maybe next time think before you make a post.

I never owned Monero. And Dash has no features. It is all BS.

@Spoetnik, here is the reason for the Dash pump:

Dash has the masternode system that allows instant transactions. They integrate tumbling so no getting ripped off by 3rd parties or having all your transactions public. Can and do successfully update their algorythm. Dash has all of its bases covered. Please tell me what lightcoin offers society? Also, the volume precludes a pump....

Here are a few more pieces to the puzzle :

http://thedashtimes.com/2017/02/28/dash-partners-wall-coins-help-users-exchange-crypto-cash/
http://www.econotimes.com/Dash-rolls-out-major-software-upgrade-v121-Sentinel-525895
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/rogerkver-list-of-bitcoin-competitors-he-diversified-into-for-better-privacy-cheaper-transactio.13290/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/dashs-break-to-4-crypto-position-explained-by-its-cashing-in-on-bitcoins-consumer-problems
http://www.econotimes.com/Dash-teams-up-with-BlockPay-to-enable-point-of-sale-purchases-in-over-36-countries-557984

Wall of Coins integration means that Dash has a pretty large OTC market to tap into now, leading to more liquidity and more usability.
Sentinel Update v12.1 demonstrate that Dash successfully mastered the art of hard forking in a controlled manner.
Integration with Blockpay gets Dash into a large market of Point of Sales related activities.
Roger Ver actively promoting Dash is a sign for large Bitcoin whales to really start thinking about diversifying their holdings.

Not to mention that one particular major exchange that is about to integrate Dash with FIAT pairs : https://www.dashcentral.org/p/bsdev-general-201702

The instant transactions are BS. I will soon teach you what instant txn tech is.

Masternodes can enable the greatest scam ever in crypto (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1804521.msg18027469#msg18027469).


Dash's anonymity is trash barely functional technology that has more holes than Swiss cheese (at least the last time I bothered to look and no need to bother to look again because they don't have any qualified cryptographers on their team).


At least it doesn't lie about what it does well.

Dash is not a technically competent group. It is allegedly a scam intensive group (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1804521.msg18027469#msg18027469). Really that is it in a nutshell.

And so now we have Roger Ver associated with DASH (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1808840.msg18027721#msg18027721) and QTUM, so that is allegedly two scams already.

I understand, if you cant fight a cryptocurrency with valid arguments you can always resort to naming it a scam and hope that some people will fall for it.
After all it worked so well in the past Mr. iamnotback who has so many many accounts on this Bitcointalk forum alone.

Dont let the stress get to you like the last time when you called Dash a scam and then traced back on it by telling everyone that you went a bit too far
and needed to take a break from it all.... 

Shelby says.. "Ver"

So what will Ver tell us all to buy next ? Apparently he is the most powerful Altcoin pundit in crypto history  :D

Then Qwizzie posts a huge list of reasons "Why"
And you go on to argue about them Shelby..
Whether you agree with them or not is not the point.. he was addressing "why".

I am not for or against Dash per say but you fell on your face with this one.
AND your inherent dislike for Dash is rather obvious (you are reaching here)

Your other report topic for example lambasted Dash and gave Monero an almost perfect score.
You love to forget about King Risto's shenanigans.
If he had not poured money it into it non stop running the coin Monero would not be here today.
It is literally his coin so put that on your score charts.
Can you say centralization ?

This "MEW" topic should make it painfully obvious.... AGAIN
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776479.msg12619507#msg12619507

@qwizzie your tactics are slimy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1804521.msg18027591#msg18027591) and diversionary.


Quotes or it didn't happen. I don't remember that. So I am calling you a liar.

---

I dislike scams. I thought you disliked scams. But I guess you change with the crab bucket mentality wind.

Trying to hold me down. Won't work. But keep trying. You'll fail.


Are you referring to Coinbase's Securities Law Framework scoring system?

Well in that system Monero is decentralized and not culpable.


That doesn't make it a security. Why don't you go learn about the Howey test and stop talking about irrelevant matters.

What ever Risto did was his own decision. There was no Common Enterprise which received an Investment of Money from the token.

There was some stupid MEW group for a while, but it didn't receive any money from Monero's protocol, unlike the masternode scam of Dash.

Please your technological ignorance is unbearable.

I didn't like what Risto did but that didn't make it liable under the Howey test. Please have more accurate discernment skills.

Well Dash broke $40  :o

I wonder if we should start a POLL here asking if Roger Ver convinced you to buy Dash ?
I am shocked it's gone up over the last while.
It was not over night either.. it's been building up for some time !

I'd be sniffing at market manipulation / pumping etc before i would look to blame / credit Ver.
I don't think most of us read all these random crypto sites mentioned.
Every time i come here someone is posting some link to a Crypto news story on a site i never heard of.
Then, blaming that news site link for making grandiose changes in the scene.  ::)

More than likely it's a combo of factors i think.

I hate to rail on like it's about price speculation.
What i find interesting is the MarketCap positions.
Ethereum needs to die with fire so i hope Dash or any other coin (Not Ripple) takes it down !
Ok or Steem or.. LOL
Most of the ranked coins in the top 10 or 20 are dogshit and should be gone ASAP.
It won't Doge taking the #2 spot again.. we know that much (108,357,302,375 DOGE)  :D

Congrats ppl who make nice moola!!!

But DASH will dump on this pump as that all is fake vol bots pushing it up, those who held forever laugh and newbs will cry lol.  The "news" is not even substantial!!!  ::)

I agree like to see dash beat out ETH shit or XMR.

But no worries, WBB rebranded coin will make its way up the chart soon enough as well!  :P

ZCash is a special interest pump and dump

KMD, ZCL, and XZC are all better alternatives

Dash is getting it's 15 minutes of fame. Not that I'd be surprised if that 15 minutes turned out to be much longer. Let's wait and see how it's doing a year from now, it hasn't quite made it yet. It could very well be a pretender.

Aren't they all at this point? (all the crypto-coins)

We're just at beginning folks.

We are at the Pong and PacMan stage.

https://i.imgur.com/N0WpxLA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/K7gFbOB.png

Not all, NEM so far has surpassed expectations and seems everyone so far agrees looks like the most legit project in the alt scene.

DASH, well good for those who got in early. We've all seen these patterns before, heavy manipulation because for sure DASH does not have any uses that I have witnessed.

I think you missed his point. You have to fake it 'til you make it, and no one's made it yet. Which means...

Dash as just been to some conference in Mexico (Anarchapulco) which I am sure isnt hurting the price.

Oh that must be that Anarchist Network host Jeff Berwick who earned $10,000 per blog post on Steem.

Look over the NEM advancements and how they are working with several tech bureaus and even a municipal community in Belgium is trying to experiment with the blockchain Mijin/NEM.

Let's not be salty now because we see a lot of people gaining from these unprecedented rises in the alt world.

By your logic, Bitcoin has not made it yet which means... see what I did there.

I see what you did there, you agreed with me lol. Bitcoin is pretending too. You know what isn't pretending? USD  ;)

I will be composing a technical analysis on NEM's PoI shortly and you are not going to be happy.

Those "accomplishments" for NEM are just more fluff and no actual adoption.

Bitcoin adoption is still tiny.

Here are some quotes of a guy that once had some dignity ... i kinda miss that guy.




Good advice iamnotback, don't be afraid to not be in control....

Here it is:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1526248.msg18029512#msg18029512

I have stated over the past days that everyone will reap what they sow.

I am merely asking speculators whether they have any desire to invest in projects which are obviously more honest and decentralized? Will anyone even care or be able to discern the difference.

I can't possibly tell everyone what to do here. You know damn well that if I stop posting here for 24 hours, then everything I wrote will be buried and everyone will go right back to their former habits and patterns.

My posting here right now is to serve two purposes:

1. To make sure I understand correctly our ecosystem and markets. I want to make sure there is a market for producing an honest project. I want to make sure all the effort I need to put forth will be worth trying. If I have to create a manipulated money supply and exchange markets in order to succeed, then I don't want to do it. I was actually really depressed last year when I was thinking maybe it is necessary to manipulate else some others will come in and take control (i.e. buy it up cheap after it has wallowed at a low price for a long time). But I now think the key is maintaining adoption growth, to keep the demand up.

2. To establish to the community that I want to be involved in an honest project focused on real adoption, real technical accomplishments, and no shenanigans. And I don't want to work for free. So Monero lost my desire to contribute to their project because they aren't serious about adoption, they don't reward someone like me enough (I don't have enough capital to buy XMR as a motivation to develop on it), and I don't like the attitude of some in the Monero community. Other than that Monero seems like a mostly honest project, good decentralization (except PoW always centralizes over time) with some real technical advance (but I think their advances are not well prioritized and I think I can do better). From Monero's stance, I am a Prima donna. From my stance, Monero's BDFL is not a good enough leader to lead me.

@qwizzie if you are willing to call a truce (admitting that Dash doesn't meet my goals for a project I want to be affiliated with), then I am ready to leave the forum to go become a programmer again. Deal?

(In short, I am trying to find my tribe within our ecosystem)

ha so you don't like people who berate others for wrong? in other words don't mention our captive instamine scam. I see.

I mean the entire post you just made is like saying please stop mentioning our scam.

Dash - there is no right or wrong.  Tell everyone its a fair launch then do everything in your power to make it unfair. Once you pull that off dream up new ways of leveraging your unfair advantage to the max. After that solidify that advantage.

I see.

Yep everyone else please stop pointing out the facts that dash is a proven scam because qwizzie will say you have no dignity.

I understand what you are saying, i really do. Lets just call it a truce for today and see what tomorrow brings.

That is a fair and perfectly reasonable position.

Here's your quote from the thread you created:


So in conclusion it seems like you have no idea why NEM is so popular and have tried to criticize it with unfounded assumptions.

Nothing wrong with criticism, I'm glad someone that is in the know with NEM replied to you and proved your assumption false. It's good that this happens just so these projects don't go unquestioned.

No one refuted me.

SPOETNIK you are seemingly protecting dash again???

Do you not believe dash is a scam now?

Yes or NO is dash a scam?

@cryptohunter
You are a nag  ::)

Is there room to criticize Dash ? yes absolutely and their own supporters will tell you that.
I don't ever see the need to beat it to death because they DO NOT DENY IT !

..unlike Monero Tards.

Nor is that the topic here either.
But it is funny that it's usually the Monero guys launching attacks as hypocrites
when they are guilty of similar shit.
AND that their "defenders" here fail to see the centralization of Monero.
Simply comparing the tech alone and ignoring the puppet master who has been behind the scenes all along.
Yeah.. the bald guy who lives in a castle and drives a god damn fucking BENTLEY !

http://i67.tinypic.com/2dllugw.jpg

Amazing how he literally runs the coin and pays the top devs out of pocket then funds the coin every step of the way while they claim he is "not a part of the team" nor is his employee.
When who was the MEW treasurer ? None other than his employee.. David Latapie
And WHOM may i ask spent the money on the forum game topic here for as he called it a powerful adoption asset ?
Yup the bald millionaire.. (pictured above)
Want more ? I have watched that asshole strut around here as king shit for years so i have plenty more.

But he's a ghost when the Dash centralization criticism comes rolling in right on cue  ::)

DASH = $45.52 - http://coinmarketcap.com/

It's on a god damn rampage !

And look at the chart picture.. it's a gradual slope.

https://files.coinmarketcap.com/generated/sparklines/131.png

In other words the critics can't claim it happened over night.. this has been a long time coming.
And i think Ethereum is shitting and pumping their coin ASAP because they are jealous & threatened.
GOOD Fuck ETH !
Take them down Dash guys.. ETH is scammy trash and needs to be burned with fire !

A lot of your comments lately look very pro dash.

I think in anti dash threads you should not contaminate them with defence based around xmr and eth. These are separate issues and do not justify other scams.

for example you had no doubts here of dash  being ultra scammy. Don't dout it now. This nonsense about intent is toks rebuttal you you back then and you didn't stand for that obvious nonsense then why bring that argument you refuted back then up now.


so you like seeing an ultra scam (not honestly admitted by the dashers at all)

rising to 300M mc?


why not just say now dash is an ultra scam?



why do I see you on every anti dash thread diverting to other scams?

You should be doing as you were in 2014 crushing all scams not assisting and excusing dash ultra scam because other scams exist.

I am not at all sure why you would be doing this.

If you have been paid off by dash then just keep their tokens or dump instantly like I hope you have done and come back to fighting all scams equally. There is no such bullshit like honest dashers admitting to their scam. They still say it was all an accident and so was slashing the minting.

You will lose all credibility.ability to call anything a scam if you continue on this path of dash promoting and refusal to brand it a scam. I mean you will not be able to criticise any other project out there if dash is not a scam to you.

any other project you call a scam will simply ask you if you consider dash a scam and when you will not admit that dash is a scam.....that's it they have you.  because if the deeds dash have pulled are no longer a scam to you then you will have a hard time showing any other project to be a scam.

I am nagging you because you are ruining your entire post history and credibility here. You need to be consistent and logical.

Good analogy, but I think gen 3 cryptos are NES (Mario and Duckhunt) While BTC is Pong or Packman. BTCs gen 1 and can't handle the volume it already has. I can't imagine it being mass adopted when you can't even send a minor transaction. I'm going to turn all of my BTC to Dash to buy my Baikal miners, I don't want my BTC being unconfirmed for a week.

Libertarian and ethics are an oxymoron. Gullible ideologue would be more accurate.

Nothing in crypto is a scam, because crypto is based upon trustlessness.  In other words, if you adhere to the fundamental principle of crypto, the idea is that *everyone out there* is trying to rip you off, and that you are supposed to *rip off everyone out there*, but the belief is that the greed of everyone is large enough, and the trust between parties is low enough, *and the protocol is designed such* that there cannot be sufficient collusion for you to be able to collude sufficiently with others to rip off anyone else *by consensus protocol failure* and that no group will emerge that is colluding strong enough to rip you off *by consensus protocol failure*.   However, in order for that to succeed, you are supposed to study the system YOURSELF, because of course, one way to do so is to MAKE YOU BELIEVE that the protocol is designed as such, and the *initial conditions are designed such that* this property holds.

There's no reason to accept the notion of trustlessness on the level of individual actors with a given protocol, that is, to believe that people will try everything to make you believe in a fake consensus, and that this will fail by hypothesis of strong enough protocol, and at the same time NOT accept trustlessness by people defining protocols.

This is a bit like being favourable to strong cryptographic algorithms so that people can always try to crack them, and believe that the algorithms are sufficiently strong that people trying to crack them will not succeed, but at the same time downloading new cryptographic algorithms from "people on the internet" and cry "SCAM!" when they've designed back doors in them.  After all, this is just ANOTHER METHOD of getting at your data.  One is to 'crack an algorithm', the other is 'giving you an algorithm with a back door'.  

So, no, DASH, with its ninjamine is not a scam.  It is not any more a scam, than an attempt at a 51% attack on bitcoin.  This is the fundamental premise of crypto: the others are supposed to try to rip you off.  Whether that is with a 51% attack on bitcoin, or by promoting an alternative of which the protocol and the initial conditions are such that you will be ripped off, is the essence of the game.  In as much as they succeed, they've simply used the trustlessness aspect of crypto.  In as much as a 51% attack on bitcoin succeeds and goes unnoticed, or people don't care, it was the challenge of bitcoin.  In as much as people buy into a ninja-mined half PoS coin with a whole structure to make you believe it enough so that you pump value in it, it is the name of the game in crypto.

It is not a scam.  It is crypto at its best.  Like back doors in "free" cryptographic software offered by "a guy on the internet".  Because the game is trustlessness.

A protocol with large PoS and ninja mining is of course highly centralized in the hands of the ninja miners.  But that is not a secret, and is verifiable on the block chain.  As such, people buying into it are taking their responsibility.  If they "didn't know", then they are stupid, and them being ripped off is well-deserved.  If they knew it, well, they knew what they were doing.

Does that make DASH not useful as a currency ?  I don't know.  The problem with a highly centralized system like this is of course the high potential volatility, and the low effective liquidity.  But this can change, when the centralized owner decides to cash out.  I wouldn't touch the anonymity of DASH with a finger, because probably most master nodes, being centralized, can easily be compromised (by water hosing, bribing, or whatever), even though its technology is way, way better than bitcoin's.  It can also be that DASH's owners care about the system enough to make it function well enough as a currency.  I fail to see its interest over fiat, because if you have to trust some centralized parties, it is probably better to trust a kind of state than a kind of "unknowns on the internet".  But that's a matter of informed choice.

So no, DASH is not a scam.  It can't be, it is crypto.

No, "conscious being" and "ethics" is an oxymoron, apart from the natural ethics:
"good" is what is good for me, "bad" is what is bad for me.

2000 years of fake philosophy have tried to define ethics in any other way, but that's the basis of ethics with conscious beings.  All other kinds of ethics are nothing else but social lies, in order to get the gullible act according to my real ethics: my advantage.

There are two kinds of people:
1. egoists who assume being egoists
2. egoists accusing others of being egoists.

Anything that is not truly decentralized is not going to have the trustlessness property so as to be adopted by the world.

Would you prefer the word 'inadequate' or 'permissioned' (i.e. not trustless) to 'scam'?

tl;dr is @Spoetnik is more concerned with ego than facts.

He seems to be entirely oblivious to the egregious distinction of decentralization between the two coins he is writing about.

So he is an example of exactly what he complains about: the ignorance of speculators.

My point is rather that people don't measure the depth of the notion of "trustlessness".  They are so used to trusted relationships, that they have a very hard time imagining what it really means, trustlessness.  My idea is that trustlessness is an illusion, which is why crypto is an ill-defined notion.  It is essentially impossible to adhere to trustlessness and not come to a grinding halt, simply because true trustnessless implies also that you have to verify EVERYTHING yourself, which you can't.  Trustlessness implies the end of the division of labor in a sense.

What is a scam ?  A scam is a violation of invited trust.  I invite you to trust me (that is, I promise you something), you trust me on that, and I do what I promised you not to do, or I don't do what I promised you to do.
Both conditions are necessary in order to be able to talk about a scam.  If I don't invite you to something (if I don't promise anything), and you GUESS that I will act in a certain way, while I act differently, that's not a scam, I didn't promise you anything.  You were just guessing (wrongly) about my behaviour.  Even if you asked me, I'm not obliged to tell you the truth.  You wanted to obtain something from me (information), I simply didn't want to give it to you.
If you don't believe me, and you don't trust me, then I cannot scam you either, even if I promised you something and I didn't keep my engagements.
A scam has as necessary and sufficient conditions: I invite you to trust me, and you trust me ; then I act differently.

The funny thing is that we are using "trustlessness in a sand box": we assume trusted entities (devs, exchanges, miners, users, github....) to play a "confined game of trustlessness" inside this trusted environment.   This is silly.  This is the same silliness of wanting "the law to regulate crypto".  "Trustlessness in a sandbox" is stupid.  If there IS a trusted environment, then there's no need to play a confined game of trustlessness: ground the trust in the system in the trusted environment.   And if there isn't such a trusted environment, don't pretend it exists, and if it doesn't behave as you GUESS it should, cry "SCAM".

Trustlessness is a notion in the same basket as "anonymity".  In its absolute form, it is an illusion.  However, you can make systems that do incorporate sufficient "protection in a more or less trustless environment" that they make it "too difficult to bother scamming" in certain cases ; in the same way that there are anon technologies that make it "too difficult to de-anonymize" in certain cases, if these cases aren't worth to bother.  But there are no absolutes in this domain.

At a certain point, there's no point in putting a lot of work in "protocol trustlessness" when the rest of the system needs more trust.  For instance, the PoW that goes in the bitcoin network is WAAAAAY too high as compared to all the trust needed for the rest of bitcoin to function.   There's more chance of someone compromising the core devs, or github, or whatever, rather than compromising the block chain itself "following its rules". 

Imagine that the core devs collude to bring out a new version of bitcoin core that allows to "crack" Satoshi's stash (by simply *accepting* bad signatures of it) ; imagine that this code is already in the bitcoin core code, but not activated yet.   People reading the code and discovering this (how many people do this ?) might want to keep it secret, and use it themselves.  By the time this code is running about everywhere, they activate this part of the code, nobody really notices directly, it seems that Satoshi's stash moves finally, they cash out part of it on exchanges, and by the time people realize (you only need a few hours for this), the deed is done.
They won't do this, but NOT BECAUSE OF bitcoin's protocol, but rather because there are too many trusted relationships that will go after them, including probably the law and so on.  One will finally count on trusted entities for this not to happen and not count on a fully trustless system.

So at a certain point, one has to stop the silliness of trustlessness.  In the same way that there's no absolute anonymity, there's no absolute trustlessness.  Some protection against "easy identity theft" helps.  And some measures in trustlessness can help.  But forget about systematic trustlessness.

Spot on.  That said, he often generates great posts :)

"So no, DASH is not a scam.  It can't be, it is crypto." -

If you wish to take that thought path to reach that conclusion then I will not stand in your way. If you say dash is not a scam because there are no scams possible in crypto and you're serious then sure I will not try to refute what you are saying.

I realise on this forum there are a lot of very smart people who can explain why left is right and that black is white. I don't doubt on some level where I don't want to exist (and spend hours reinventing/reanalysing the minutia of every thought/concept that the vast majority accept as correct or real/solid)they can be mathematically be proven correct to some level of significance.


If you don't consider a scam to be possible in crypto then that is fine. I accept that you don't view dash as a scam.

For the vast majority that would view the start of the dash thread and the ton of other threads examining dash they will accept that there was a large scam conducted by the devs. They said fair launch (fair opportunity for everyone to mine) then made it as unfair as possible to mine for others whilst they took all the easy bulk of the coins. They said one thing and did the opposite. Later they decided that was not enough and from the remaining coins they took away 75% of those that were supposed to be available to all to mine so that their unfair advantage at the start was magnified even more. If you know this to be the case and still say there is no scam possible in crypto then fair enough. Is a lie possible in crypto? is dishonesty possible in crypto?


Conduct a poll. Nobody has been scammed in crypto ever because a scam is not possible... true or false?

Most people accept scam as

scam
skam/Submit
nouninformal
1.
a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
"an insurance scam"
synonyms:   fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick, diddle; More
verb
1.
swindle.
"a guy that scams old pensioners out of their savings"

You are saying the pensioners should not have trusted the guy so there is no scam. I am using the widely accepted definition of a scam. I can't help it if others have their own independent and individual benchmark and requirements of a scam.

 I don't think Dash is a scam because the core team is well known to the public. Also, they have more to gain if dash performs well.

Dash also prevents double spending, as long as bitcoin doesn't it will never be mass accepted.

Crypto is based upon the idea of trustlessness.  That is, the development of protocols where y there *is no central authority imposing the rules*, but the *rules themselves* and the *respect of the rules* results from a hypothetical dynamics of a consensus algorithm.  That is what distributed trustlessness means.  It is the hypothesis that a given *published rule set* will lead to a system dynamics where a derived hypothetical rule set will result from the natural antagonist dynamics, and that derived hypothetical rule set is considered "honest enough" to induce a monetary belief system.

With bitcoin, the hypothesis is that the consensus mechanism of PoW will enforce the monetary rules of bitcoin, and that the PoW mechanism is a kind of "fair distribution system" of coins.   The belief is that the bitcoin software implements this correctly.

But you could just as well take the hypothesis that bitcoin was a huge ninjamine between just a few people in the knowing, which colluded or not, and there's no way to know if you weren't part of them.  However, you can also see that a lot of the mined coins the first few months are still in their coinbase address.  It is impossible to know whether the secret keys of these addresses are still in the hands of some or not.  It is impossible to know whether there was a kind of collusion between the first people that mined bitcoin in 2009.  You should study the source code of the bitcoin core software to see whether this code does what it says it does.

Nevertheless, there's a lot that you CAN verify with bitcoin "after the fact", and you can believe that the consensus mechanism did function.  If you understand enough about cryptography, you can assume that it works more or less as announced.  However, that's entirely YOUR OWN belief.  Nobody came to you to invite you to believe that.  If ever it turns out that 90% of what happens on bitcoin is the work of a small group who has in fact cracked the PoW function of bitcoin, and can churn out a block in 5 minutes, no matter what difficulty with a secret algorithm, or that the digital signatures on bitcoin are totally fake and you're the only dude really sending money to an exchange to buy bitcoins while they are lauching their ass off, that's entirely your silly belief that is wrong.  Because that's the essence of the whole concept of trustlessness: that the data are there for you to verify, but that that verification is entirely your affair.

Ideally, you should write your own "bitcoin core" software to check the block chain, and you still have to believe that nobody has a simple way to crack the cryptography of bitcoin.  It is still your belief that the block chain hasn't been done over a few times by a single centralized authority.  It is still your belief that the consensus mechanism works as you read it should work.  All this is your verification work, and your fundamental beliefs.

If this is not the case, you're the only one to blame that you accepted a "trustless system" on trust.  


Yes, but saying so is exactly what is to be expected in a trustless scheme.   In the same way that someone propagating a rewound block in an attempt of a 51% attack is not going to announce that he's performing a 51% attack, and in the same way that someone trying to do a double spend attempt before inclusion in a block is not going to tell you that he did so ; and you believe the system is *supposed to be designed* to prevent this dynamically, and not by "calling the police".

As these facts are known now, the players that accept it, well, accept it consciously,  and those that didn't inform themselves are trusting entities in a trustless system and are hence asking to be ripped off.


My point is: "no", because the whole point of crypto is that you don't believe anything, and that you verify everything yourself.  If you do place trust somewhere, you're placing yourself outside of the fundamental paradigm of trustlessness.  


Many people will say they were, because they didn't realize what fundamental postulate they were subscribing to: trustlessness.  If they got scammed, it means that:
1) they trusted some entity (which is a no-go in trustlessness)
2) they didn't verify everything themselves
3) they made wrong assumptions about the emerging dynamics (maybe they BELIEVED some claims, which brings them back to 1) ).

Besides the constant pointing out that Blockpay (whatever this is - I've never heard of it) integrates dash but no mention of its usefulness and actual usage and that this Roger Ver is"promoting Dash" (same guy said couple of months ago that Monero will reach $1 Billion mcap by the end of 2016), so no one knows why dash is rising... Sure! It is not a pump at all !!! But I'm stupified how many people joined the retarded discussion with the FUD and jokercentric (much more than egocentric) maniac Sputnik. Yeah - world hasn't gone crazy at all.

1) Instant transactions - only Dash masternodes can provide this - Dash has over 4000+ of them and allows dash to scale and provide point of sale and instant double spend safe confirmations & purchasing in 1-3 seconds. No other coin has this.
2) Private Send - optional privacy that has never been broken and been working for years, still allows a transparent blockchain to allow point of sale transactions to occur instantly and be verifiable on the blockchain. All other anon coins cannot do this. Without this, there is no mainstream adoption!
3) Incentivized nodes (Masternodes) provide solid infrastructure to the network and get paid to do so unlike BTC. You need 1000 Dash to become one and have voting rights on the network for governance.
4) Governance - we have 10% blockchain funding to help market, develop and grow the network, the more we grow, the more budget we have. Masternodes vote on which projects are funded to help grow! The other 90% block rewards is (45% Masternodes & 45% Miners)
5) Dash Evolution - on the horizon - this is the BTC Killer Application which is targetting the masses and aims to allow you to be your own bank. Usernames instead of addresses, Single wallet online that can be accessed from anywhere, Vault accounts for interest savings and theft protection, Marketplace, etc et... Its insane...goto Dash.org for more. The vision for this is to make crypto easy for the masses and allow your mum to use Dash like their existing bank account!
6) Because of Governance we form new partnerships that can be funded by the blockchain, new massive exchange integration in a few weeks, Blockcypher, ProtonMail, BlockPay etc etc...
7) The best community in the crypto scene, friendly etc.
8 ) Test of time - Dash has been around for 3+ years and is solid and has delivered time and time again with a world class dev and commercial team who have names to faces and arent going anywhere.

Bitcoin old timers who are frustrated are now moving out of BTC into Dash - Roger Ver stated that Dash is his top Altcoin to hedge against BTC.

Dash is the real deal, dont believe trolls who missed out and are hating on Dash. Yes it had a rocky start and everyone knows about the high amount of coins mined at the start, but 3 years later no one really cares except for trolls as thats their last resort.

To be honest, I liked DASH, but I don't like it too much at the moment.  However, I'm very happy with the current rally and I hope, even though I think it is somewhat ambitious, that DASH overtakes ethereum.  Overtaking bitcoin will be a bit hard *at the moment*, but one never knows.   I'm not entirely without hope, and if it is true that the current rally is due to trading an infinitesimal part of the entire amount of DASH around, with all the rest locked up in master nodes, then this lever arm is sufficiently big that relatively small whales can pump this to unknown heights.  If they can keep it there for a while, people will get used to these high prices.

I think such rallies are in general bad for a currency: they attract speculators like bullshit attracts flies, and once a currency is in the hands of speculators, there's no relationship any more between its fundamentals (essentially Fisher's formula for a currency) and its market cap.  But as this is screwed up with DASH in any case, it is a great thing that DASH rallies, because it can then demonstrate that "established orders" need not to be permanent.

I like DASH for its historical origin which was anonymity.  Even though its technology (mixers) is depreciated as of now, it is important that anon tech becomes visible.  What I don't like about DASH is that it is pseudo-distributed, but essentially centralized.  This is what allows DASH to do VISA-like processing (its "instant transactions") which are simply approved by the equivalent of a banker network (the master nodes) instead of having to undergo distributed cryptographic consensus-processing.  But this is also exactly what I don't like about DASH: it is a new kind of "bankers network".  Like with fiat banking, the bankers take most of the seigniorage and they have their say in the "central bank", which determines the rules of the system (the code).  DASH's system really is too much like a copy of our current fiat system: a "central bank" that sets the rules (that writes the code, can augment, diminish, can decide about everything) and is financed (10%) ; a set of "first line commercial banks" (the master nodes) that most probably collude concerning their interest, and have their say in the central bank (voting system of the "community") and reap in almost half of the freshly printed money so that the interest keeps flowing, and moreover, know all the "anonymous details" of their customers (the master nodes know the mixing origins of course), so that anonymity is relative with respect to your banker.  On the other hand, this centralized system is almost as efficient as the actual fiat system, and can indeed offer instant payments.
In as much as the fiat system works well, DASH will work almost just as well, contrary to bitcoin for instance, who suffers the full weight of decentralisation and all the crypto hassle that comes with it.
And in as much as DASH's central bank and commercial bank system is abroad, it is maybe still a better option for small illegal stuff than using fiat with a domestic bank.

So DASH has indeed a potentially great future, in the sense that it is a central bank system that can sell itself to the crowd as a distributed crypto, with optional anonymity, and the speed of VISA.  Why not, after all.  If it can show that the "established order" can be overthrown, that would be great.

I did't ask why is Dash a top 10 altcoin. My question was why is dash rising now? What is the reason? You made an abstract of the dash front page, not answering why dash is rising now. What is the reason? And don't copy paste same old roger ver and blockpay stuff unless saying why are they suddenly so important. And besides having less or more of the same stuff as other coins and lol being 3+ years old(so I have to look the launch announces 3 years ago and invest in the next altcoin after dark .. :) - such reason to invest still laughing) what is the reason that suddenly now dash becomes 5 and more times more expensive. Can it suddenly wash my dishes? Can I pay my lunch somewhere? Pathetic community - pathetic copy paste old answers (I can't even say that these were answers.)

Maybe a few bitcoin whales made enough profit with the existing bitcoin rally, that they can afford to pump another coin ?  I have no idea, but someone decided that it was time for DASH to rally, and that someone needed to have sufficient money to pump it.

Dash price has significant increased to $57 right now, 52.09% increase in 24 hours, amazing.
I'm not learning about dash yet but it seems attract people to invest on it. Could someone give/tell me the link of dash (the first time, it was launched)? I would like to read about that and looking for the answer of the current rally.

I'm not following the news recently and I have not even read the thread, but I smell that shits are going to hit the fan pretty soon...

I don't want to say anything but look at how the Silver to Bitcoin's Gold is languishing (not my words - that's the gist to a lot of crypto watchers). I may be wrong (I frequently am!) but there may be an LTC accumulation going on quietly while the world runs for DASH and BTC. Don't underestimate how popular LTC is outside of this place.

Glad I was here to see DASH take off. I was watching it's MarketCap slowly rise from below $100m to this. With only 7m in circ I knew it was headed to at least $50.

The only heartbreaking thing is that I don't own any!!!

 :D

Agreed with it all ..it didn't put any gas in my Lambo :(