Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys, serious question for the hodlers among us. As we have all noticed of late, btc has been quite bullish. Like most of us, I was surprised that the ETF was rejected, and was prepared for the subsequent bounce. My question is, what is supporting the current price? Despite the fact that I think it's false, the current Wall Street rally should have gold and bitcoin down. But they aren't; all three are doing well. Since this rarely happens (bitcoin and precious metals are safe havens, and tend to run contrary to traditional markets), what do you think? What will make the bubble pop, either way?

The Etf was always bound to be a reject, and all the hope of it being accepted and Bitcoin being shoot up was spread by newbies so that was OK. Now that bitcoin unlimited is gaining momentum, and they have recently gained support of 15% miner which I feel shall be bad for us in the near future. Cause it would result in splitting Bitcoin into two which would be the sole reason for its price downfall. Apart from that, the global uncertainty will push the prices up and up. Let's wait and see how more support, BU gets. I don't think there any reason than BU if the price crashes. It's support level is 1000$

I personally was one to think that the ETF was going to be denied anyway, on the means of it being way too risk for normal investors to be able to get into but that's besides the point. I think at the moment we're seeing a point where it may stable out at, and I hope it does. A currency that has such crazy flucations in value is really too risky / a nuisance for normal people to use in their everyday lives.

The price may see a slight decrease due to people thinking that we are in a bubble that will pop but personally I just don't think that's the case at all.

Not really sure why.

Personally me too like most bitcoiners have expected the ETF to have a really big impact on the bitcoin price but obviously it has held up quite well with the price still trading at over $1250 after the ETF rejected decision. It is basically a surprise for everyone in the bitcoin community.

I would say that an adjustment will be coming sometime soon. Although I could be wrong as well.

Long term wise, bitcoin is still bullish in my eyes.

Several such instances were outlawed by bitcoin in the past. One such major is the core developer revealing bitcoin as an experiment that no more grows and will get collapsed moving to R3. But bitcoin fell suddenly and it rose again, same is here. Right now is the increasing acceptance and adoption that generates the price move rather than the technology debate or etf.

its really confusing since we see the rise up when the etf news went out but after the rejection i was thinking that it will make a big downfall so i did wait for another level down to 1k$ but after several days it went back right away to 1200$ eventually its still a puzzle to me who's group or who's behind this bullish movement.

A small percentage of speculators came in to hike up the price in anticipation of a approval and when that did not happen, they quickly dumped those coins, to still make a profit. < Those people were the ones dumping in the first few hours after the official announcement >

The majority of the bitcoins are still held by people with a long-term vision for this experiment. They might have sold some coins, if the ETF were approved to take some profits, but that did not happen. ^smile^

Some of the long-term investors quickly bought the cheap "speculator" coins, after they dumped it. ^heh^

The Winkelvoss twins did the same with $ 1 000 000 after such a collapse, back in the day.

I think bitcoin has reached at the level (of $1,000) which is not the temporary, I mean like 2013 hype. We all have accepted that bitcoin is worth $1,000+ and that's why the price is jumping around this level. I don't see any reason for the price to the fall below $800 anytime near future. I still believe that bitcoin is underpriced and eventually rise up to $2,000 with some struggle.

first of all ETF was just a distraction for whales to accumulate more bitcoin this month before the next price rise, it never had any major effect on bitcoin and can never have any either.
also i have to remind you that bitcoin is global and it is accepted in all countries around the world and also it is on an adoption spree which is increasing day by day and that means more people are always coming in and bring more money with them and that alone increases the price. not to mention all of us oldies buying more bitcoin each month that we can get some extra money to invest.

you don't need more than the right amount of investors to support the price, this current value was done with a steady and slow climb, this make this raise very solid and not really affected by what is happening in the legal money world

see the EFT as a bonus as a launching pad that could have been useful to speeding up the adoption rate, also the value was build long before the EFT was even in question, and therefore i don't know why people were expecting the price to crash just because of the rejection...

one side of the bitcoin might require ETF approved, on the other hand new users for bitcoin is increasingly growing, so I think what drives ETH will increase the price of bitcoin if more people new users of bitcoin buy it as a good investment than gold

Increasing adoption by users around make it a better coin with a good value even when the technology debate has not come to an conclusion. Possibly the growth will be taking place based other technology and the user base. Now user base gives price sustainability.

Speaking about bitcoin price it doesnt been affected too much by etf rejection and you are right those prices are still on good support and tend to continue the bullish trend same with gold even though bitcoin surpasses it but doesnt mean they are related to each other. As long these prices are rising its a win situation for us either on gold or on bitcoin.

This price doesn't seem like a bubble to me, it wasn't a sudden increase more or less it was stable. Yes, after ETF getting rejected I expected a more drop than just a $100. Now if we neglect the post ETF drop we can see the increase seems gradual since last week. The more and more bitcoin adoption due to that $1000 mark is somewhere responsible in this increase among the other factors, but i think its safe to say that bitcoin won't drop below $1000.

We would be at $1300+ if the ETF didn't happen (not approved, but didn't happen)

Now what we are selling is just profit taking, we will continue going up because there are no reasons for it to stop going up now that the hard fork fears are cleared thanks to BUcoin being buried due the exploit.

OP, the reason is simple, it is all a bubble. There are whales behind the scenes that are pumping the price. I also believe connecting the price of Bitcoin with the direction of the stock market is a mistake. Bitcoin operates and moves beyond all the traditional ways of economics. It is its own little world.

Currently there is no bubble. If you look at the demand that is coming from people looking for some sort of a safe haven, then I can see this continue for quite some years as governments aren't likely to stop with pushing their own people away from them. I have convinced a few people close to me in the last 6 months to allocate 5% of their entire wealth to be invested in Bitcoin. Why did they agree with this? Because they as well see that saving isn't an option since it will cost them money if you calculate the yearly tax percentage that they have to pay. Plus, they also feel that the government and banking system is working against them. Banks are nothing more than puppets of the government. People are tired from being stuck in a system that is squeezing them out. People want financial freedom. That's an important aspect of the level of demand we are experiencing right now.

The better question is what is up with the prices of ETH, DASH, and XMR. Those coins have been raising quite high in the past couple of days and it seems like it hasn't slowed down too from what I am seeing. But, let's see. Maybe when everything else goes down again bitcoins will shoot up to $2,000.

Bitcoin price bump is based on the people use it. Demand and supply determining the value of bitcoin whether it is bump or dump. You could check in Google, many of the companies are initiated block chain technology to the firms to make more secured to avoid the hacking issue through out globally.
Bubble is because of heavy rate of adoption around the world. Its been continuing till this year end. Wait and watch to see the next peak value.

The ETF affected their prices the most, probably. After Bitcoin was rejected, people went to different other Altcoins to put their money into, and most of them probably went to all the three you have specified above, because they're the ones with the most potential to rise. I just hope it's not a pump and dump thing that will create "chaos" for the investors who put a lot of money in them right now.

I knew Monero will rise, but I didn't know about DASH and ETH. Now I heard about DASH being a scam. Possible, but unlikely in my opinion.. and I hope it's not. There have also been events recently that drove the prices even higher: the Netherlands' elections, the Brexit final vote, the Fed interest rate decision and possibly even others (these are the major ones). Check the Silver or Gold price chart in the last 24 hours! While others are increasing in price, Bitcoin had a small fall because investors are moving to other coins. But don't worry, this will have a recovery. Sooner or later!

Yes let's hope for the best and i am sure these coins are no competitors to bitcoin and bitcoin will rule the digital currency market and it's going to happen very soon as per projection we will reach $1300 in couple of months.

I am more surprised of the way it went down last few days. Below $1000? That is a hell of a fall.
Do bitcoin holders really panic like that to make it fall for $200?
I thought we are risking some money here for a better profit in the future.
Just a news about bitcoin ETF makes them excited then suddenly dump it after the news of not accepting it.
We should really change the way we see bitcoin.

Momentum is turning. Just made 0.2 BTC profit today and i am in BTC again. This means that we must move up because otherwise i got burned. It is slowly turning more bullish again. Already + 7 EUR since the lowest point of today. FUD defeated, just like BU. Now we need to stop those false fork rumours.

Dude it was below 1000 for all of 10 minutes. It was a cascade of sell offs triggered by news of etf denial, and a whole lot of stops getting triggered. It was back at 1200 in a day.

That could happen. But if the scaling problem of bitcoin is not solved, people will start using altcoin.

lol.
if people start using something else then there is no scaling problem.
it would solve itself.

Then please present the evidence. I believe we have not really seen Bitcoin really being used as a currency yet. Most of the transactions are from the dark markets which is growing but it is not really that big yet. The rest are being held in wallets as an investment. Present the numbers and the stats then I will believe you.

Right, nothing big happened with the price, no significant dump and I don't know why people are making such drama out of it? There is nothing wrong with the price, it has kept the good value with goods position to continue to rise and come up to bigest value so far so don't make problems where there isn't any.

FUD defeated?
I don't think bitcoin is out of the woods just yet. :-\
There are the alts to to defeat first.
They are the ones who are taking away from bitcoin's thunder.
Attack of the clones (Alts) maybe the next chapter in the book of bitcoin just maybe to be encountered until it is clear to grow into what it was meant to become into from the very start.

I think it is all about fork. Investors are not sure when and what will happen - the true is that these are only speculations, and in my opinion someone is just playing here. People reactions we can see on charts, but nobody said that fork will ever happen.
I'm sure after the weekend everything calms down.

Speculation or not, investors that aren't really into Bitcoin and just stick to trading, are most likely the ones that are pulling out right now. I can't really blame them as uncertainties regarding everything related to BU grows. Especially now exchanges have released their approach on how to deal with 2 different chains, where both Bitcoin and BU might get a separate exchange listing. Basically the same as what happened with ETH and ETHC. I however don't think it will come that far.

Maybe it's just the Winlkevoss Twins selling off a portion of their hodlings, since, you know...

This drop is probably just a correction due to the recent rise in price. Traders will sell some Bitcoins when the price is high and wait for a drop in price to buy back in.

Or Roger Ver is selling his 300 000 fortune, because he already know that BTU will win battle and remove BTC from market..   ;D

Let's hope that's just the case, because if that's only it, we'd bounce back early.

Allow me to enlighten you a little. Read this http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-exchanges-unveil-emergency-hard-fork-contingency-plan/

I also believe that you have automatic BTU if the fork splits the blockchain. Please correct me if I am wrong. And if not, you already have BTC that will become BTU. So no need for Roger Ver to do anything.

Or maybe he wants to split the blockchain so that he will double his 300,000 fortune. ;D

always needed to be positive mate, if this just cause by some big holders and support from real investors will comes up and suck those
dumped coin for sure we will be able to bounce back, right now its really risky shorting btc might be needed for some more time to
see how this flow will continue.

If a single individual could single handedly influence the fate of bitcoin by splitting the block chain and there by increasing his fortune will not stand in a good note with all the officials who are trying to pass the ETF  and this will be shown as a proof in the future and the growth will be shunned if anything of that sort will happen.I am not sure how these things will play out and may be people who invested in it are not willing to risk what they are not sure and so is the reason for the sell off.

Indeed, no need to panic sell as our bitcoin will doubled (in BTU) if that condition really happen just like ethereum did last year.
We can't do anything about it and just wait for them accomplish consensus. I consider this recent decline as normal fluctuate on bitcoin environment because if it doesn't goes up, it will fall down.

Lets got something clear :

-mister X has got 10 BTC in his wallet.

-Fork happens and mister X shits his pants and sells his BU coin.

-Coin sold, wallet empty trash BU sold

I dont get it why you say we can double our coins at the fork? When you sell them they are gone right?

It's not really that your coins get doubled, but I understand what you mean. In case of an unsuccessful fork, people will have an equal amount of coins in both chains.

In case of a properly carried out fork, there will not be a chain split, and thus you won't have to deal with all the hassle around it.

However, in current circumstances there is no way that the fork will be carried out properly. I find it mind boggling that it has come this far. This isn't helping Bitcoin move forward..

Unfortunately if the fork doesn't go well then both chains will be dumped on as people sell their freely doubled coins. Just hope that doesn't happen, as that will bring price on both chains down. It'll be another ETC-ETH problem, I just hope price doesn't dip too much in that scenario.

Those weak hands. Some people will never understand. Momentum is broken. Slow recovery to 1070 EUR is underway. After that we brake to 800 EUR because of activation Segwit. Dont miss this recovery chance!  Hodl until we reach 1070 EUR.

there is no activation of segwit, what are you talking about?

Not yet. But when it comes we are going to the 800 EUR area.

Yes but what are you selling them for?  You're selling them to get more Bitcoin.  Obviously not everyone is going to profit from this, but if you believe that the BU coin is going to fail, you can sell it earlier than other people while the desperate BU supporters are trying to pump it, and then boom, you have far more Bitcoin.

But then i sell my core bitcoin for Segwit bitcoin and the amount of coins stays the same right? How can i increase my coin then?

you are mixing things up. the "battle" is between segwit (core) and bucoin (bu). bucoin will be nothing more than an altcoin. if you calculate from there, then it's basically free money in case the fork creates 2 seperate blockchains and you sell bucoin.

Btc forking is always falls ehen two miners find the valid hash within a short space of time. Small forks happens usually often in blockchain naturally. I noticed that ETH has been increased in value from 2 days and bitcoin is fluctuated today as of now.

But is this why the price drops so much right now?
Am i missing something?

I see that the price went from 1250$ to 1000$ in less then 2 days. Does this all have to day with the battle between SegWit and BU?

yep. bucoin has already an advantage when it comes to pools signalling support, but the fact that bucoin needs a support percentage far lower than segwit to activate, is what gets the market shaking. as you can see the price went even briefly below $1000 just now. it's very sad seeing the market go full panic for nothing. nothing in the way that all of this could have been prevented by pools supporting segwit.

Let us say I was not joking, which I am. You say that it will not leave a good note on the officials who decide on the fate of the ETF? Those same corrupt officials who accept grease money from the billionaire elite to accept their whim? The same officials who pressure some companies they do not like and use some form of political extortion?

To be honest I don`t have any clues what is happening with the price, and after I come here and read about it I`m even more confused. On one side people say one thing, on other side other, and people are arguing in trying to explain what is happening. I understand from this that bitcoin price is the reflection of the relationships in bitcoin community.

Do you ever seen the activation bitcoin segwit? There will no segwit in the future and i know it.  :'(

In case of a fork the value of your BTC and your BU combined will be less than the current price of bitcoin since many investors will take a step back and decide to wait until things get clearer in the horizon.

Dead accurate. That actually is the main driver in this ongoing price madness.

Nothing looks to be an accurate death. The core has lost power, but seems to be the strongest than the Bitcoin unlimited. The reason is that miners now focus much on BU. Soon it might go down, because the biggest mining pool works on Bitcoin unlimited and was under the control of Wu. The same could happen to the entire community if BU is supported altogether.

That's actually a good point to bring up, because it does tend to get a little too U.S.-centric on this forum.  99.9999999% of the world could care less about an ETF even if they were aware of such a thing.  And what's supporting the price?  We are, and whoever else is buying bitcoin on these shady-ass exchanges.  But as we can all see, this whole shebang is pretty fragile.  We dipped below $1000 the other day, and it's entirely possible that we could get back there and even lower.