Bitcoin Forum

Miners and whales have aligned to take the price of bitcoin down so they can buy more cheap bitcoin WHILE pumping and dumping alts.

I believe there will be no hard fork at all because both whales and miners know it would kill the price.

They want you to sell your bitcoin to buy cheap, same history as always.

Bitcoin still king.

Why would miners be buying Bitcoins? They buy hardware, then mine and sell Bitcoins.
You may be confused with traders.

Couldnt say it any better. I have some fiat in 2 days and i am going to buy cheap coins because of FUD. Bitcoin should be worth at least 2k by now without FUD and whale manipulation.
We should ride those waves just like the whales. Its time to buy btc before those idiots do. BTC = KING

You dont get it. Miners are traders too. Jihan is in connection Roger (big whale). They are trolling with the BU hard fork, they start pumps, big pumps like DASH, then once they get all the money they will buy back BTC and will announce they give up on the BU trolljob before its too late and bitcoin network effect is killed because of the hardfork.

Result: no hard fork, bitcoin recovers, roger and jihan richer than before.

the manipulation has always been in bitcoin market, they can't keep the price down forever, we already saw the bottom and how long it lasted! and it is always the whales who win the battle while accumulating cheap coins.

i don't know about miners but some say miners are some of the bigger whales!

and about altcoin pumps i have to say it is normal and obviously whenever bitcoin is getting stuck people move to altcoins to enjoy a much bigger but short term rise and come back to bitcoin with more money and after the "stall" period was over.

and altcoins are getting pumped one after another is just proving this. whales move from one big coin to another, pump them and take profit then dump fast and get out. right now it is Litecoin's turn and we are already up 77% in one day.

Careful BBZ, if you try to expose the truth around here, you'll just get hazed to death for being some kind of wackjob conspiracy theorist.  ;)

They (miners, whales, troll traders) need the illusion of ' independent market forces' to appear as the reality, so the populous of crypto enthusiasts (esp newbies) can easily be swayed by emotion and be easily parted from their $$.

That's why the first thing that unsuspecting newbs ask when some random altcoin gets pumped is, "Have the fundamentals for this coin changed? Is there something I should know about?" And of course, there's always someone there to give them some plausible but equally random answer.  ;)

Confirmed.

I thought that's what everyone presumed. You're telling me that some people don't believe this? Bitcoin is the perfect vehicle to relieve silly sausages of their money with minimal effort.

I even hear people saying: shit i am out untill this is solved. -HAHAHA!

This means muhh i am going to sell low, and when the price pumps i buy back again.

Bbbut hhhhardfork?  ::)

People are so naive nowadays. Like miners will 'attack' bitcoin. Their shots will directly fired back to the miners their bankaccounts. They cant attack their own business and investments.

I am going to enjoy this FUD so much.

Manipulation will always be a part of any economy whether it is bitcoin or world economy. It is how the rich and wealthy make their money. It is just easier for the whales in bitcoin to do this. Just dump and spread some fud rumors and newbies will follow dumping their bitcoins too. I do not know if ever there will be a time it will harder for them to manipulate bitcoin price.

Its essensial for Bitcoin's future that whales will dump their coins and get eaten by the little traders. Bitcoin will be succesfull if its owned by many people in small amounts. Otherwise bitcoin will only be a speculative 'tool' for the rich folks. It needs to me a store of value. Whales will extinct when bitcoin becomes more and more stable.

The problem is they dump to manipulate price and in the end, they end up with more coins. We wanted the distribution of bitcoin to be diverse but whales will always have the upper hand and may not let that happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if whales were colluding to effect bitcoin's price. They've been doing that for years.

I do not think miners are the one pulling the price down.  From the recent event, it was the exchanges that pulls the price. FUD'ing Bitcoin market abot the fork and not accepting it.  Probably whales have something to do with it since they are always the one who gets the most benefits whenever there is a manipulative down in price.

It's been a well known tactic among the traders to spread false rumors and profit from it. Why shouldn't they if there are still people ready to sell at the smallest trace of bad news?
It has been done in 2014 with the multiple "Chinese ban" news. There were rumors of secret documents saying that Bitcoin will be completely banned in China, leaks from conferences of government officials and many more. Each of these documents and pieces of evidence always caused a small dump and moved the price down by 2-3% and in a week or 2 there was another and another.
Whoever bought at that time and later in 2015 could make a fortune in 2 years.

Dont discount the fact that there have been and will be actual concerted attacks on bitcoin.

Bitcoin has obviously been established for many years and proven to outpace nearly every financial asset. This will let you keep up with rising cost of rents, healthcare, traveling, education!

More on this post here titled "Hacks & puppets & forks - how to destroy bitcoin": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1834310.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1834310.0)

Actually this is not a new thing as now most of us knew about this theory of pump and dump that is why i think their was some selling pressure and the price went down but now it is back to above $1000 price and very soon we will see the next ATH price of bitcoin. Right now everyone is busy with altcoin boom period when their pump finishes then as soon as dump start you see the price of bitcoin going up fast.

I think that's a nice thought but honestly it seems naive. Just because bitcoins were first doesn't mean they're best. They aren't as anonymous as some people are looking for, the fees are too high for others etc. Some altcoins do these things better so people invest in them. There's always going to be manipulation but I don't think this is.

Thats the same game which big whales used to play.Victims would be the new investors who sell their bitcoins in panic.By this time,Roger and Jinan would have filled their pockets enough by selling their alts pumped and buying btc at much cheaper price than it deserves.

Wow ... I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere, seems like I'm in the twilight zone ...  :-\

That is the great tactic of big whales and miners, a cleaver thinking to make profit. It is not our luck to buy big amount of coins as they were. We cannot blame them for that, they are just being wise to have money.

Bitcoin has the widest adoption, the most hashing power backing it. Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency which people know in some countries.
So the dump bitcoin and then accumulate is not such a wild theory after all.

that is true that bitcoin is already know in many countries but they don't know more about altcoin. so if they see that bitcoin price is getting down, then they should thinking that is the right time to invest their money in bitcoin. i think there is always some people wants to make people in the market getting panic and they sell their bitcoin so the other people can buy bitcoin with cheap price.

There has always been price manipulation by traders (as far as I'm aware of it is mainly the Chinese). Price instability make traders money, but as bitcoin matures and becomes more stable and adopted it should be less open to price manipulation.

I do, however, think op is exaggerating and we are not being manipulated that much.

big whales wait till the price of bitcoins goes down and to buy the bitcoins, well you l see that the 1st of the month the price of bitcoins goes high as this is the time when people buy bitcoins.
miners buy hardware pretty costly one,coolers if they need to mine bitcoins.

I don't think the manipulation is very serious.  Altcoins are definitely getting pumped, none of that growth is realistic, but I think Bitcoin's price is mainly due to that manipulated altcoin surge rather than direct manipulation of Bitcoin.

Miners may well be manipulating us to bring the price down though, as they could easily sell their Bitcoin, signal for BU as a threat that lowers the price, and then buy back again.  It would only take Antpool and a couple of other major pools (excluding F2Pool which is just strange) to do this.

Well I doubt that. I think that the price manipulation is very serious not just in altcoins but also in bitcoin. Have you noticed that when bitcoin price started to go down a little just before the dump to sub 1000$ many spread fud about bitcoin about BU and threads saying bitcoin is dead? That yet is the greatest proof of the manipulation of BTC price which I think is serious and I agree with OP that now it is not only whales who manipulate bitcoin but also miners participated in the last manipulation.

You are confusing the train of events, either deliberately or inadvertently

Exchanges actually supported Bitcoin by making it crystal clear that they will do everything to protect themselves and their clients, and that meant staying away from BU. They did refuse to accept the new Bitcoin, that's a fact, but, first, you fail to mention that their position supported Bitcoin by making things clear, and, second, they agreed to consider BU as an altcoin (which was an obvious decision given there is virtually no support for BU among Bitcoin users). Besides, they revealed their stance when the FUD had already spread across the net

I basicly agree with you that for the bitcoin to work, and in general a capitalism to work there have to be mechanism of distribution of wealth from the richest ones to the rest of the people. The best method in this distribution should be based on the merits, some added value in the part of the people opposed to hoarding and speculating by the rich.

Bitcoin have the same problems as the all rest of the capitalistic world. Capitalism is slowly sinking into the feudalism from which it had came. Thats not a good thing at all. The rich hoarders aka whales won't extinct by themselfs  . There is no incentive in the system not to monopolize all the wealth by a few. To the contrary if you are a rich the prospect of getting richer is very optimistic.

And in bitcoin world the incentive hoard the bitcoins does not favour distribution them from the top to bottom. To the contrary I expect the whales to get bigger and bigger. Thats good for the price of the bitcoin, don't get me wrong. Its not the end of the world. But with the bitcoin inequal distribution cames the dangers like disconnecting from the world economy, becoming and empty bubble etc etc.

I think it'd be more apt to call this a FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) job. Trolls do it for the lols, these guys are doing it for the potential gains. I have a feeling someone in the mining community is going to get burnt in the coming months by one of their own supporters/backers/investors and they're not even going to be expecting it.

I also feel like that soon very bug bubble appear at the moment someone is buying the all coins at the range of $900. This happening consistently from last month the price is an circle of this soon bitcoin will touch new high price.

You really cannot tell that the current price bubble is simply because of mere speculation but i do think that the Japan's stance of bitcoin made the rally and you really must of forget that the scaling issue still stands and with BU not getting much fans after like they had before after finding flaws in their code,i do expect a price range of $1000 to $1200.

I strongly disagree with such attitude

Gaining more and more wealth makes sense only up to a certain point. After reaching that point, people just start doing what they like most. So there is a limiting factor which prevents grabbing all wealth in just a few hands, and in most cases it is a self-limiting one, i.e. people stop looking for more profits not because there are no more opportunities around but simply because they lose interest. There are many other interesting things to do in life apart from earning money. Indeed, I don't take into account such madmen like Warren Buffett and his breed who is married to money, but he is old and decrepit anyway, beyond the point of no return (if there is such or will be in the future)

Where is Bitcoin in a bubble?? We have seen healthy and constant growth since october 2015.
There is a shitcoin bubble, created by manipulators and bloated by dumb money which will create many bag holders.
Bitcoin will profit from it big league when that bubble bursts! Till then just buy BTC and HODL!

Bitcoin is not a bubble but it is not perfectly stable asset as well. People would like it to be constantly growing and never ever drop its value.
That can't be done, market cap is not that high, presence of early adopters/whales who can manipulate price by dumping/rebuying coins is a perfectly possible scenario.

Simple fact: just because we can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
It is hard to prove this kind of manipulation of market, but it will be stupid to think it is impossible.

Manipulation happens from time to time. There also seems to be some fluctuation in price that is not from manipulation but from other factors such as good or bad news about Bitcoin, price of gold and stocks, and new investors coming in.

I agree the power brokers are blocking, but your guess is not the likely reason.

Follow my link as to why SegWit can't ever be activated for Bitcoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1663070.msg18459085#msg18459085

I think the math there will enlighten you.

In reality, that doesn't happen.  I would like to think that that's what I would do if I was wealthier, but honestly I have no idea, and the reality is that there are extremely rich people around.

I think the logic is flawed.   A "power broker" could always choose to send their transaction to their node and get refunded for the fees when their code gets a block.   However that isn't really how transactions work.   Transactions often get broadcast to other nodes, so a "power broker" can't really control who gets the fee.   

Their wealth is nominal

And it is not so much about having a pile of dollars under the mattress as controlling wealth generating entities and businesses. Ultimately, it doesn't matter who owns or controls them, government, a single individual or a group of shareholders, as least, as long at they keep generating more wealth since this wealth necessarily makes the whole society better off and wealthy overall. In other words, no matter how greedy you may be, if you want more wealth you will have to share some part of it with other folks. Otherwise, you will most likely start losing what you already have as the time passes by

I think miners not buy bitcoin, but buy hardware to produce bitcoin this mean bitcoin seller not buyer
if about crash and dump price because about bitcoin issue, bitcoin unlimited, segwit, hard fork and about block size
about dump and pump i think playing is trader not miners

Miners can play as traders too though if they want since they can get some fiat after selling all the coins they mined and they have a lot of bitcoins so they are one of those whales who controls bitcoin price so I think they are involved in any FUDS made trying to make bitcoin price down for them to rebuy cheap bitcoins, ending with more profit in the end. Plain traders are playing in this dump and pump but remember, a miner can be a trader too.

They can but there is not much sense in it

The reason for this is the same why companies prefer to be involved in only one field. Even if they have to diversify their business (e.g. due to dire economic situation), they still prefer to start new businesses as standalone companies (to test waters and if something goes awry close these companies). In other words, exclusively sticking with something specific allows you to master it and thus get a competitive advantage before other people or companies doing the same. Otherwise you are risking to end up as "jack of all trades and master of none"