Bitcoin Forum

So I was just watching the exchange section at polo and I was happened to be on the AMP exchange page, I noticed something quite incredible and would be interested in what you guys think about it.
So amp was being sold at about 0.00007756 and was at like 10%+(green) and then suddenly there came a sell order of about 60k+ amps with price only 0.00007150
Now why would someone actually sell at such a low price when the price for the moment is quite high?
It looked quite strange to me, what do you guys think?

If he was one of the early investors, or a dev of the coin, he might knows more then you and decided to dump all of his coins, and take his profits home. Due to the fact that if you sell them at  0.00007756, you won't be able to sell them all at once. That could be the reason.

However 60k wouldn't be much in that case.

Because he wanted to fill orders down to 0.00007150, this happens when there's not enough liquidity if you have a big sell to make.

not everyone is a trader and having a large amount of money (~4.65BTC) doesn't make them good at it.
it may have been someone who have mined that much, a developer, a bagholder, or someone who bought low and was scared so got out.
there is also the possibility of a bot going crazy on its owner :)

also remember that always taking 10% profit is better than watching the coin stay there and suddenly go down to -30% and you miss your opportunity. and a 10% profit on 4.65BTC means 0.46BTC nearly 500 dollar in half a day.

Simple answer is to create sell wall and create panic on the market. So that these whales can buy back cheap coins. When they will get few cheap coins below their sell orders, they will remove those walls so that price can naturally get pumped over their sell price so they can sell again to make good profit.  ;)

That is the start of the called triggering a trend so that the price movement will not always goes into same direction. Building a price wall.

That is always present to an alt especially if it's offered on an ICO. Early investors will get profit out of it while at the same time will trigger a panic selling since the quantity stated is enough to shake the volumes much. What to do? Ride the wave and try not to get lost.

To press the market and with an assumption if that makes a short candle. Actually, most of the whales are doing it.

It' just a usual thing in trading, You'll see more whales try to make panic to the market. I mean the short dip is his chance to gain more profit.

Or that person is trying to sell all of his coins.

Well for one thing if the price was going significantly down then they might want to sell to several different buyers all the way down to that price.  They could also be starting a downtrend to push the price down so that they can buy later.

OP, you should always keep in mind that most of the altcoin traders are amateurs and self thought traders. They make the mistakes of amateurs always make like the one you witnessed. He made a market order without any regard on the liquidity of the market.

That make sense, so it is a manipulation by the "whales" as people are calling them.
I think the appropriate option would be just to keep watching and do nothing about it? Because that they would not want, right?

That must be one angry owner right now if he sees, but bot most probably earned him profit in any case.

it is mostly someone day-trading. which means they buy in the dips and sell after a rise. in that case you see dumps like that happen. and when the market is small with small orders selling one batch will fill multiple orders and price goes down 2-3 steps.

seeing the past 7 days of AMP charts the trades go like this:
you buy at 6800-6900 sat and sell on 7500-7800 (13-14% profit)
then buy back at 7100 sat and sell again at 7800-8100 (13-14% profit again)
...
and so on.

trading is not manipulation, trading only suply and demand
but you can manipulation demand and can incraese price if you have much money, you can pump everything coin you want if you have much money

Of course it is. Manipulation and pumping and dumping have been happening since the creation of the idea of trading markets. Do you really believe that something like the Tulip Mania was all owed to the law of supply and demand? Of course not, there were a lot of misinformation, hype and of course the pump of the price that manipulated the people to join in and buy it up.

technically manipulation is also changing the supply and demand.
for example it can be by cutting the supply and the sell pressure (specially in altcoin market where the coins/supply is in the hands of a few) and place some buy walls in small markets and push the buy orders higher and higher.
or it can be by "spreading some fake news" so that the demand increases when people rush to buy that thing in order not to miss out. like what ethereum and dash did with their claims to replace bitcoin.

In my opinion that the signal that coin will dump because whales set a wall on it to get more amp.
That's the strategy of some traders to gain more profit.

i think, the investor just want to buy again in the lower prices, that's why they dump the coin. Firts they buy @low price then sell all her coins @high price... To dump the coin and also to buy @low price.... Don't worry OP this is always happening "Dump and Pump"

Not only him the one who sells at 0.00007150 BTC, there are many greedy people in trading history. The don't want to increase the price of the coin, this thing I have faced many times when the price of the coin is raising many people to start to keep at the low price. We don't have any right to ask because those coins belong to themselves only.

I agree with you . can all run very quickly and so many transactions.
we can never pay attention to the movement of the digits in the world of trading.

I've seen something like that on some amateur exchanges (let's call them wannabe exchanges)

Obviously the order should be filled at the best price all down the orderbook. So if you put a Sell order at a price below the price of some Buy orders, your order should get first filled at the highest prices available, and if there is a remaining amount it will be placed at the price that you set. I traded at Poloniex and orders are filled there as they should be, so if someone placed a Sell order at a price below the highest bids, he might just have calculated the price at which his order will be filled completely. In fact, that's totally rational since otherwise the trader in question might not get his order filled completely because buyers would most certainly remove their Buy orders when they saw a huge Sell order hovering just above their bids

Welcome to crypto land :D there is no rule stopping someone from being stupid, though I don't know how can you call that manipulation? that is only manipulation when someone has the control over most of the supply so they do that to keep the price down and make the order books to seem more legit like a natural economy, or someone saw other idiots willing to buy all his coins at that price so he dumped them all.

Right about now if you inject $100M into LTC market you could potentially pump the price up to $35+ and while pumping then others will join in hopes of earning profit so they will actually buy from you $35 per coin and you could even demand much higher prices and they'll still buy from you, now that's what I call true manipulation.

While when you buy bitcoin at any given price there are real people using bitcoin for real and legitimate businesses and still not a mainstream currency I don't know why people bother to even go near altcoins?

It is not only profits that are driving people into trading altcoins

Many people visit casinos though they know beforehand that casinos have a competitive advantage before them (so-called house edge) but they still hope to win. In trading, people think that there is no house edge (they just don't know how severely mistaken they are in this regard), therefore they consider trading (and especially altcoin trading because Bitcoin has become dull and boring to them) as a variety of gambling, and since they think that everyone is in the same boat as themselves (i.e. there is no house edge), they prefer trading to gambling. While in reality their real chances to win may in fact be lower than in an honest casino and I'm not kidding

Yes, tricky manipulations are not possible with high volume trading instruments or needed billion dollars to move the prices.

In cryptocurrencies, manipulations are becoming so common as people are just ready to invest somewhere. If you are capable of green change of an altcoins, you may make some good amounts of bitcoins at the end of the day through intensively manipulating prices. Innocent traders who are thinking for big profits are got trapped most of the times.

Choosing well established coins for trading/investing could be a one practice to avoid manipulation surprises. But in recent times XRP and LTC also showed big sudden fluctuations to make us think about how to choose altcoins. Probably staying away from altcoins could be a solution as of now.

maybe the dev or investors to lower the price to sell wall could be just a trader who have got profit targets and 60k+ it's still a reasonable value previously ever happens even value more than that.

It happened to me sometime, a transaction  was on hold and I needed to make the exchange as quick as possible, so on getting to the exchange, I simply went along with the previous rate I had checked with, only to discover much later that the price changed in between the time. So it can be an oversight or an outright ploy to force price down, so they can buy back at cheaper rates.

all trading platform is have big money can manipulate price
you can see in real trading in valas, big boys banker always manipulation price, or you see about george soros, he is rich only manipulation fiat curency in the world

they found great success by being such a whales shaking the market and taking advantage from those newcomers and weak holders,
its a game of nerved and those who shaken will be eaten alive by those big holders who called themselves manipulators/whales.

Who doesn't want to make a price increase in the first place?

It's not that they don't want it but it seems it's a good way if they can able to bag much more coins before the expected pump. Traders are eyeing for a big profit so if you are a bagholder then you are not an enthusiast to buy coins at it's price they called as high. The dumping activity is their chance to make another rounds of buying to increase the quantity of their coins aside from the profit they gained prior to the price decrease.

That's how trading works to those alts that having lots of big whales. In order not to be late, you have to closely watch the price as altcoin price movement is really different compare to bitcoin price movement.

Great observation dude, I also seen a couple of times from polo specially during the pumps and dumps. I believe every exchange has a dirty mechanism in their system.

I guess it not on being lazy but on being impatient. In trading there is always a price check needed to know if you will buy or sell your trading because if you do not trade right you will lose rather  than to earn. I suggest to read and forum before trading because you need to have a prior knowledge in trading because in trading there is risk that we need to always keep on mind. Then focus and work hard for your trading to earn and to be  successful.

In my observation it is normal its not a manipulation , in some market moving like that we can also think about someone who is trying to control or manipulate the market .Otherwise its not a problem learn to adjust on that situation take advantage if you know where to set and that was a battle of skills and bluffing  ;D

two different people with very simple reason for each of them:

- traders looking for huge profit that they can only find in altcoins which are getting pump and dump. for example if you want to increase your bitcoin amount you just join a pumping coin fast and exit as fast too. and make a lot of bitcoin.

- newbies who have an illusion. they fall for the lies the altcoin bagholders tell them such as "...some altcoin replacing bitcoin..." or the funniest of all "...Microsoft partnered up with our altcoin...". and then say to themselves "... I go in while it is worth $1 and when it replaced bitcoin i would have $1000 worth" but in reality that $1 goes to $10 and they don't sell and when it dumps back to $1 and less they sell at a loss.

No one can manipulate bitcoin since it is decentralized and its market is huge hence it can not be dumped easily. Also, as bitcoin's market is increasing due to good news and promotion, this is helpful to make its market bigger which would lessen volitality which costs dumpers earn much of money and usual people lose due to panic selling.

You're wrong, bitcoin can still be manipulated by the people who got a lot of bitcoins in their pocket like the early investors and the early miners of bitcoin and also the rich people can manipulate the price of bitcoin because they can take advantage of their money to buy and control the supply of the bitcoin in the market, they are commonly known sa whales.

I agree with you that people who have very much money so they can do anything. including manipulating prices in all sectors of the trade.

What makes you think that the market is huge?

Let me guess, you look at Bitcoin market cap and see that is somewhere around 20B dollars, so you come to think that it is impossible to manipulate the market of that size, right? But do you know that in calculating this market cap all coins are taken into account, while only a small part of them is actually traded? But since the price (which is the primary target of market manipulation) is determined by the balance of actual supply and demand, i.e. the number of coins actually traded, only the latter count in terms of market manipulation (not total number of coins mined till now)

But how long ?  manipulations will not sustain for days. Market will get stabilised over time. To hold market at the manipulated levels they need massive amounts of money which will not be possible for days. We cannot do anything about manipulations but we need to keep our cool mindset when seeing sudden bump or dump scenarios, if we do get panic or greedy we might get trapped by those manipulations.

There are many restrictions for individual accounts like the volume one account holder can deposit/withdraw per day basis but when group of people getting into manipulations, we cannot do anything about it literally.

It reminds me of certain people that look at the market cap, and think that if you want to increase the price with 10%, that you need 10% of the market cap in actual funds to move the market with such percentage. People don't realize that it is indeed the number of tradable coins that matter, and not the coins that are doing nothing. It just shows with what for a mindset people look at Bitcoin and everything related to trading. It's not for nothing that a lot people end up selling in panic. It all comes down to a lack of understanding.

The simple answer is that people wait for the best price and then dump their coins. I have seen this same pattern for many coins and I have been quite bewildered too but I guess that's fine since that's how altcoins work and guy's make sure in your mind that coins that were sold in ICO are sure to get dumped one day for sure, so don't hold them for too long and don't get too greedy.

Yeah most people do it that way. Actually its pretty obvious that if we want to make profit make some others loose their money, which only happens if you create a fake hype in the market and make people believe that the coin will get much higher in coming days. But that been said sometimes these plans backfire and you loose big.

if you dont have enough funding and if you are working with a group possibilities to backfire the whale moves will go on you
but if you really understand and have enough knowledge regarding to the possible outcome of your work it will make a huge
earnings for you.

I'd like to call it a bearish trap or bullish trap, The whale just tries to make a fake hype with the pump the coin and a lot of the newbie traders will be following him and make the pump is high than before.
If the atm has got by the coin and the whale will try dump all of his coin that coin had bought by the whale on the cheap price. And whale has made a lot of money caused by his fake hype to fool a lot of newbies.

It may backfire easily

Before all, to buy "potential coins" at a much cheaper price, they should first sell them, right? That is, they should first have these coins which they are going to sell. But why would they want to sell them at all if these coins have a lot of potential? If the coins do really have so much potential, people will just buy up the sold coins, and the price will remain where it is. If the sellers in question manage to start panic sell-offs, maybe, this coin is not as "potential" as it seems to be? I'm more inclined to think that the reverse scheme is more plausible, namely, when the whales at first start buying up coins in massive amounts and then dump them after the bullish sentiment is close to being exhausted