Bitcoin Forum

It seems there is a lot of antisemitism on this forum and I'm curious as to why it's acceptable, whereas other forms of racism are not.
In order to give full disclosure, let me say that i am a secular Jew.
Let me be clear, i don't consider anti Israel or anti Zionist sentiments to be anti Semitic. I think Israel acts like a dick a lot of the time and i feel that the religious right in Israel has far too much powers. I have no problem with criticism of Israel or Zionism.

What i do resent is the idea that as a Jew I'm part of some grand conspiracy to run the world. I assure you I'm not. Just because you have a dislike of a Jew or some Jews, it's ridiculous to the whole race with the same label.
It'd be like arguing that all white people are racists, all black people are criminals and all Hispanics hopped the border into the US.

I haven't detected very much racism (although there is a lot of trolling and attacks on individuals and some groups) but this forum does *pride* itself on *not censoring* (although links to SR apparently are less acceptable than any anti-*insert whatever person/organisation you hate* diatribe).

Unfortunately racism is one thing that *is* pretty much universal (luckily some people at least are educated and/or intelligent enough to be above that).

The world has problems. Life is hard.  Stuff is complicated.  That is the natural order of things.

The world has nutters.  The nutters can't accept that natural order so they look for a simpler explanation.  Blaming the Jews has always been the simplest explanation of all.

What you're perceiving as "a lot of antisemitism" is actually the work of one or two (possibly one, with sockpuppets) people, posting a lot of threads, getting shouted down, and eventually banned. We have only one long-term poster who is antisemitic, MysteryMiner, and he's also anti-everything-but-aryan, but at least keeps it to a minimum.

If it were *only* the nutters - unfortunately the majority of people are racist and do look for simpler explanations (thus the success of religion and politics).

Agreed. In fact, the vast majority of people are more concerned with the stuff on http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ than anything we discuss.  But the question is why do people accept antisemitism.

One example that baffled me was the guys that went to Mumbai from Pakistan and killed a lady in a Jewish community there.  They had never met a Jew in their entire lives until they met her.  And they travelled over 1000 miles for that attack.  If I were a Jew, I'd find that kind of thing terrifying and move to Israel in a nanosecond but I guess most Jews are made of sterner stuff.

Yeah looking through the posts, i see it is the work of a few individuals rather than the masses, my bad, I'm not trying to label all you guys as racists.
I'm more curious as to people's motivations.
I noticed it a lot in the comments section of the guardian too.

As for the motivation, I think Hawker said it best:

The Guardian has far more anti-Christian and anti-Muslim posters on CiF than anti-semites.  They just don't like any religion there.  

"Hate Speech" is a term straight out of Orwell's 1984.

I pisses me off when forums slap hate speech bans on people and I'd hate to see it happen here in a forum that is supposed to value freedom.

I'm not looking to get anyone banned.

The Guardian is a bunch of psuedo intellectual toss for teachers and champagne socialists. It's packed with hypocritical
spew and contradictory nonsense. The only view they the promote is international socialist nihilism,.. I wouldn't
wipe my bung-hole on it

It isn't that anti-Semitism is acceptable, I suspect most of us just have the sense to immediately put them on the ignore list and watch the racist cunts' threads go all the way to the bottom, I don't know about other people but to me anti-Semitism is such an old and stupid prejudice that I can't even be bothered arguing the logic anymore, at least when people hate on other ethnic groups it's sometimes reasonably new. It won't be long now before media groups decide to accuse us of being racists now they can't attack Bitcoin because they don't understand how a block function works and just see all the hate spam that gets put on the forum.

I'm not accusing the OP of being one because you seem quite reasonable but I predict soon there will be a wave of computer illiterate morons who can't find the ignore button and will immediately call for a ban/regulation of something they have no understanding of.

Yet the Guardian editorial staff don't endorse socialist politicians.  Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

He's a silly communist fearing neo-conservative :P don't mind them, they see socialists everywhere because the communists are almost all gone now, it's easy to get taken in by them, I can find plenty of reasons to not like the Guardian very much and it has nothing to do with their politics.

You don't have to endorse a politician to subscribe to a political orientation.

The Guardian is a socialist and internationalist jizz-mop that promotes the usual range of irrational and self-contradictory drivel from welfare dependency and multiculturalism to global warming and eco-alarmism.  

... generally read by teachers and toss pots.

I'm no neo-con, I just see the truth.

Socialism is just irrational drivel used by the druggies and the disturbed to justify their miserable nihilist lifestyle.

Is that your way of saying the "truth" is what neo-cons say?

WTF is this even supposed to mean? If you can't put together a coherent arguement then GTFO.
 
Hang on here's a simple statement to see if you can get your skull around: "Not liking socialism does not mean you subscribe to neo-conservatism"

Bonkers has a point. I'm certainly no neo-con, and I don't like commies either.

To be absolutely honest with you guys, seeing all the racism on this forum (and the internet in general) has helped me to grow up a lot. I've seen racists, perverts and sociopaths talk it up on these forums and others, and each time I read something extreme I soak it in and feel it out (as if I were them, thinking that way). When my logic rejects it and I feel bad thinking the way they think (kind of like a completely straight guy "trying out" being gay), I know not only am I not like them, but there may in fact be fundamental problems with their thinking. In the very least, it inspires me to research more and look into the issues (and often fallacies) presented.

Allowing hate speech just for the ability to discuss why it's wrong is the single strongest reason I am now an athiest. I have always read and heard about the grace of God, but never heard why believing in the Bible is detrimental to your mental health. If I hadn't seen those arguments because some forum mod was against "hate speech", I might still believe in a magic figure floating in outer space giving my commands to not masturbate.

If you censor racism, you limit the ability to learn about racism.

I just don't like collectivists, whatever they want to call themselves (socialists, neo-cons, whatever).  I can think for myself thanks very much and have no need for your cult-like group-think.

But censoring spamming is totally fine. Few weeks ago there were like 50 threads started by two guys... Totally fine to ban them for useless spam.

Agreed, and thank all the gods that's exactly what happened.

The thing about spamming is, it is often self-serving and disruptive.

Normal discussions are basically like saying "You can say all the hateful things you want, but you have only 60 seconds to say it, then the next guy gets to say what he wants about you".

Spamming is like giving that first dude all day to say what he wants without even needing to hear a response. I agree spamming is wrong, simply because it doesn't promote any discussion or repercussions for being wrong (they aren't held to their mistakes to learn from them).

This unfortunately, is also why I am still against anonymity despite it's "good" uses. It creates the perfect environment for abuse.  The reason I use my real name is not to give some fake trustworthy image (as I have been accused of since day one), but because I enjoy being held accountable for my actions. It forces me to change when need be. If I hold this as a standard of integrity to myself, you can imagine how I feel about the anons here.

I agree.  The forum has to be usable and it's no good if the signal is drowned out by incessant noise.  We only have so much time in our days to filter things out.

I'd be fine with that, except I make economic decisions on websites like this and others and I may or may not want the government to know about them.

If there wasn't a group of thugs that have power over me because everyone believes their authority to be legitimate, and who are often quite arbitrary in the way they apply their laws, then I would have no problem using my real name.

I'm seeing that the more I read and watch insane conspiracy theorists videos these days (it's inevitable if you're involved in bitcoin that you'll watch Alex Jones at least once I suppose).

I still can't shake it though. Maybe I'll understand it more when something happens to me personally. I don't rule it out as a legitimate option (anonymity), but it just screams "easy exit strategy" for so many scumbags to take seriously.

Can't gas me through my computer screen. (yet)

I'm pretty sure if we want to stop the cyber-gas, we need to start with protecting women, who are unrepresented and bashed regularly for amusement.

So let's all pretend we're strong-willed women.  ???

OK - officially baffled.  You complain that a newspaper that opposes socialists is a socialist newspaper.  And that it's read by teachers.  Are you still in school? At the risk of inviting another stupid answer, why does it being read by teachers matter?

How do you know I'm not?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I think Alex Jones is a raving lunatic mostly.

What I am saying is, they decide they want to audit you and who knows if you've missed something or not.  Just talk to people who have been targeted by the tax office in their country and you might start to understand.  The have thousands of rules that no-one can possibly know and I'd prefer them not to know in many cases so I just don't have to deal with all their nonsense.

How does that make me a conspiracy theorist?

Where did I say you were a conspiracy theorist?

Why did you use that phrase in a reply to my post when I wasn't even talking about the subject?

Incidentally, I agree it is an out for scumbags, but unfortunately it has legitimate uses as well due to the afore-mentioned world ruled by thugs that we live in.

The anti-semites and the conspiracy nuts overlap in a big way.  At least you don't have either delusion :) 

For example, this wack-a-doo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179616.0

Imo, most conspiracy theorists realise something is wrong but go looking for answers in all the wrong places, when the answer is right in front of their eyes.  They just don't want to admit it.  It's denial basically.

Alex Jones does it all the time, screaming about how it's our government and we have to "take it back".   ::)

That reminded me of Jerry Lewis (http://youtu.be/QKnR59GZXcI?t=2m15s).


I actually was just mentioning that I too am understanding the need for anonymity for some people in some cases the more I follow some conspiracy theories, but I haven't yet figured out if they are true, legit concerns. I wasn't talking about you.  :)

Fair enough.

Definitely look at it if you are interested.  No harm in reading that stuff.  I have.  You'll find it's usually some facts mixed in with a lot of unsubstantiated theories.

So far that's all I've found. It is interesting to see some of the shocking realities that caused the people to believe in the "unsubstantiated theories" part, but I agree that they often go out on a limb to make the pieces fit.

Anti-Semitism is over-hyped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8bG5NxQ66g

It turns out that AIPAC IS using anti-semitism to paper over all kinds of wrongdoing in Israel.
My guess would be that the Jew-haters here like antibanker and MM are just trolls.

I'm anti-Zionist, not anti-Jew - unfortunately most don't differentiate because they don't know any better or just generalise because it's easier.

Perhaps you should find some links to educate them on the history of Judaism in that you're not all from the same evil Khazar blood line :) and that there are a lot of anti-Zionist Jews.

As far as this forum is concerned I guess it would be worthwhile that people learn that the central banksters are first and foremost Zionist.

This section of the forum is full of pieces of shit, that's why,

Someone didn't read the thread.;)

^^^^^Bigot Alert^^^^

You should learn to tolerate other peoples opinions you big Nazi!

So I am opposed to anti-Semitism and at the same time a Nazi  ???

I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

Sorry buddy, I guess you can't appreciate sarcasm. Let me explain it for you. You clearly don't get much social interaction to learn these things.

It's in list format to make it easier for you to understand:

1) By stating: "anti-semites and the conspiracy nuts overlap" You clearly show yourself to be intolerant of the opinions of others
2) The general consensus is that Nazi's were also intolerant of others peoples opinions
3) Thus,given the Nazis anti-Semitism, drawing attention to your own intolerance is quite amusing,

Get it now? you disgusting, intolerant bigot.

Ah so your language is tolerant and all-embracing while I am a heartless brute insulting all and sundry?

I'll stand by my observation that anti-Semitism and conspiracy delusions have a huge overlap.  I know you want me to join you in sweet talking those who don't share my views but I prefer to stick to my rude hurtful ways.

Seems to me that there are a number of key terms used by some people to shut down an argument they can't deal with.

One is to use Godwin's Law and mention Nazi's
Two is to call someone a racist - which is implied to be as bad as being a child murderer
Three is the worst, as it involves being called a Bigot!

Bigot actually means someone of a view that is unchangeable - ironically, a very good description of the person who usually uses the term bigot in the first place!

Sorry buddy, did you read my post about sarcasm?

Be a big boy.  If you say something stupid, own up to it.  This whole "sarcasm - I didn't mean it - let's be buddies" thing is sad.

Are you autistic? Did they lock you in the server room gimp-style several years ago?

You've failed to grasp even the most basic string of logical statements. Re-read this thread, think about it whilst popping a couple of boxes of Ritalin then try and think of a coherent comeback.


 

More sarcasm?  Oh come on - man up and say what you think.

No, you've mis-read again, bonehead, that was an insult.

bonker - apart from being unable to state your beliefs without running off saying you were actually only being sarcastic, you are breaking the html when you edit quotes.

As a tip, make sure that every [tag] is matched with a [/tag].

I'm reporting this thread for improper BBCode speech.

Folks are envious of a successful business culture. The Jewish people have maintained their culture for thousands of years. To their credit.

Because it is the right attitude against jews. And it is a patriotic thing.In my country criticism of israel's politics are antisemitism. So You are antisemitic too if You don't like the war crimes of israel. Isn't it funny?It is most likely You are not part of conspiracy. But how can I be sure about that? I'm confident that some conspiracy is underway, and also I'm quite sure that jews are central figures in it. What should I do? What if some zionist conspirator slips away from punishment by pretending to be innocent?There is a thing called collective responsibility. Most jews are very united to their kind and few of them openly condemn the ideology and actions of other jews.

Well, MysteryMiner, it's possible that you're not part of some world-spanning conspiracy to overthrow all the world governments and institute total world domination, but I guess we'd better kill you just to be sure, huh?

You can try. The problem is that few people consider mystery miners to be part of conspiracy to take over world. But much more people think that jews are behind sinister plans to enslave world. Even some governments recognize zionists and western world governments as a conspirators to create one world government. There will be much more jew shooters than MM shooters.

I live in Canada and hate speech is not acceptable here. If you are the victim of hate speech or any type of discrimination then you launch a complaint with the human rights commission and your case will be taken on free of charge. The perpetrator will need deep pockets to defend themselves and could go to prison.

3 years ago Ann Coulter was told to mind what she says while in Ottawa, lest she be arrested for criminal speech. Here is an article with her response: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2010/03/23/ann-coulter-responds/

She threated to launch a complaint with the Human Rights Commission saying we were being hateful towards Conservatives. I don't think her complaint got very far. None-the-less we managed to shut Ann Coulter up.  ;D

Terrible.  Freedom of speech; wait, no, except the stuff we don't like.  But besides everything you can't say, you can say anything.  :P

Sticks and stones...

It's good you make that distinction.There can be such a thing as a "Caucasian Hispanic;" ∴, "Hispanic" is not a race.

One thing I don't understand is why Jewish people are referred to as a race? Judaism is the religion and 'Hebrews' are the race.

Also, not all Jews are Semitic (Akkadians [Assyrians and Babylonians], Ugarites, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews [Israelites, Judeans and Samaritans], Ahlamu, Arameans, Chaldeans, Nabateans, Maganites, Shebans, Sutu, Bahranis, Maltese, Mandaeans, Sabians, Syriacs, Mhallami, Amalekites, Arabs, etc.) and most Semites are not Jews.

Antisemetism is acceptable because the JIDF exists. There needs to be a ying to the yang. Can't let those forum spies get off easy. (I have never posted antisemetism.)

You can't directly compare racism to antisemitism.  Skin color and biological prejudice are fairly clear cut, compared to the murky complexities of 'who's a Jew.'

The term 'Jew' can connote biology (genetic Jews), ethnicity (semetic Jews), religion (fundy Jews), politics (Zionist Jews), and culture (Jewy Jews).

Sometimes this slippery ambiguity is cynically exploited and used to avoid scrutiny or derail uncomfortable conversations by digressing into the semantics of Semitism.

Furthermore, Jews (unlike all other minorities) are hyper-represented in the (non-military) institutions of power: technology, government, finance, law, education, media, medicine, entertainment, etc.

Understandably, this often results in jealously, leading to resentment and fear:


My advice is to not take the nasty things people say personally.  When people talk about "the white man" keeping them down, I understand they mean the WASP elites, not Joe Sixpack or me.

Full disclosure:  I'm not any sort of Jew but do tend to like their women, who also often like me.  Two reasons: Christian girls usually think I'm the antichrist, and my brainy bohemian worldview reminds them of their fathers.   ;)

You should learn to tolerate other peoples' opinions too.  God bless you!

So many groups setup for one particular group to punish people for disagreeing....

What up with that?

Just putting this out there...

I don't know what you mean by "acceptable".

Just because the forum moderators don't delete certain posts doesn't mean that they approve of them.

I don't think that the majority of users on this forum find antisemitism acceptable. There are a handful of antisemitic conspiracy theorist nutters here.  The more extreme ones have already been banned, not for "hate speech" but for trolling and repeated off-topic posting.

That phrase made me smile.




Truth is not democratic, just because lots of people believe something, doesn't make it true. Lots of people used to believe the world was flat