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Ok guys.

We missed out the first time.....HOWEVER

the factory has appointed me to one of the re-sellers,

we have got a good deal and if we get 50 units then we can get them for 6750usd + SHIPPING FROM USA.

we do not have long but the quantity required is slashed in half. DEADLINE IS WEDNESDAY

18/50 so far

Edit/notes:

 1. even if you want one unit we will honor the sale (this is going ahead regardless if we get many more sales here)

2. btc to be paid directly to manufacturer from me

3. buyers can verify the reseller before deal takes place, including credential validation.


Kilo and his crew have done nothing but spread fear in this thread, I have transcripts from kilo saying he knows my reseller personally and he knows that this deal is not a scam.

I'm interested in one unit.

I AM IN FOR 2 ALSO.
 

2 units for me, thanks.

Hi All,

I'm up for 1 unit of these.
Have money. How will this work?

Payment method etc.

Thanks.
Best regards,
Phil.
UK

you pay me, I pay the reseller, it is as good as buying from the factory (factory has confirmed proof of purchase)

Got it.

50% up front? Or 100%?

Mark me down for atleast one, maybe 2.

Payment required in BTC? 50% or 100%?

Who is the reseller?

3 units for me

not an official one, a private group where someone has pulled out.

you can contact the manufacturer and they will confirm I am selling on behalf of a reseller.

Cheers

I'm in for 2. I can verify the manufactor, i've spoken with them, i've seen video and i can link anyone with the current pool where the machine is mining so everyone can see the perfomance.
PM me.

This can wrong in so many ways.   If they are selling 76 units then they do not have enough cash to make the order.  If they have not sent the money then they are trying to use the extra funds to make the minimum.  So you think people should be ok with sending 50% of $337,500 or $168,750 of the $250,000 to secure the 100 units when they do not even know who the person is?  Especially a Private Group

Please provide Proof of Purchase.  I would love to see it.

pm me your skype

it is a larger order than 100, they have already secured their order and they can get upto 76 until finalized, all can be confirmed by contacting the manufacturer

@Bittawm,  So what is the process?  50% down paid in BTC?  Final 50% when shipping?  What is the anticipated ship date on these?  Thanks.

So they have already paid?

PM sent

My questions as well plus please send me proof of purchase link in a PM

I am waiting on Skype  ;)

the reseller has not paid yet. However they have been invited to view machine and sign contract,

while the order is unpaid it is still being secured by the manufacturer (you can confirm this, just ask Ibelink)

we will not be sending any BTC until we have a signed contract, as of now I have an invite letter from the company and will be sent live updates as our reseller goes to china to complete this deal.

That is what I thought.  I have a contract also and have been invited as well.  That means nothing until they pay.  I am betting they do not have enough funds to pay and them and them wanting to be private is always a Red Flag

What are the terms once the contract is signed?  Payment in full?  50%?  When is the contract expected to be signed?  And what is the anticipated delivery date for these? 

Put me down 1 for unit, please.

Here is the bottom line.   The "Private Group" is trying to pull a fast one on the community.  Here is how it plays out.

76 units is "NOT" selling extra on top of 100.  That is complete bullshit.  They want YOU, the community, to take ALL of the risk.

The cost per unit is $4998 from the manufacturer.  I know because I have a contract.  That means they need $500,000, half now and half at shipping time.  So basically they need $250,000 as a down payment.  Here is where it gets interesting:

They charge $6750/unit.  They get YOU to put in half of that for 76 units.  Guess what:

$3375 * 76 = $256,500.  

So now 2 things can happen:

1 - They do not get delivered and everyone loses.  EXCEPT for the "Private Group" who invested ZERO dollars.

2 - They do get delivered and you pay the other half of your money which totals $256,500.  They get a FREE 24 Units and they took ZERO RISK with their money.

so THEY really DO NOT need you to buy 76 units, they need you to buy 100 units and they get 24 FREE

Good Luck

100% upfront to the manufacturer (I know everyone would prefer that)

Even better for the "Private Group"

Ya this sounds a little weird imo

No doubt, now they want 100% of the cash upfront when iBelink only requires 50%.

Put me down for one.

guys guys guys listen,  I am doing my own due diligence to make sure no one here gets ripped off. Paying direct to the manufacturer (under the resellers order)

if I feel unsafe before the transaction takes place I will pull the plug. All buyers can do their own validation with me and the reseller once we reach the numbers.

Kilo is actually part of the reason we are in on this, its because he pulled out

I pulled out of a Deal with buckrodgers and MindTrip I proceeded to pursue a deal without them because we were lied to by them.   I have informed Bittawn about our dealings with them and he has decided to turn his head and proceed.

I have evidence in emails and messages to back up what I am saying and will ask my friends that were also talking to them to tell their story as well.


Shame on you Bittawn.

that's why I didn't get my call returned?  ???

how you dare come to my thread and tarnish my name, Shame on you.

Like I said, we are not transferring any btc until we all feel 100% safe.

OVER 120 UNITS ALREADY SECURED BY THIS RESELLER

I think you need to elaborate before (76 * $6750USD =) $513 000 USD is exchanged between parties.

I told you about this and you have decided to proceed -- PLEASE SHOW EVIDENCE WHERE 120 have been SECURED -- Does that mean Paid For? No, they have not paid as we found out earlier.  So they have an agreement only

Why pay 100% upfront when they only ask for 50%?

I am dealing with heaps of people here chan8, by the time I saw your message the last deal was over. apologies

ASK THE MANUFACTURER YOURSELF

He will say that they HAVE NOT PAID, correct?

they may not have paid but its secured... ask the manufacturer and say bittawm

I did not do this to you.  You are doing a great job of it yourself.

apology accepted, appreciate it... but I was talking bout kilo17.

That means NOTHING until money changes hands.   They were counting on the 80-100 we were going to order most likely.

Let us get serious Bittawn.  Answer this question:

You know there is a great likelihood what I am saying is true.  Are you saying that you are willing to RISK $500,000 of the community's money when there is a question about the integrity of the people you are doing business with on this deal

I think you will find it does... ask the manufacturer...say bittawm

Let's see


FASTEST MINER AVAILABLE - check

MUST BE PREPAID - check

PRIVATE INVESTORS - check


Hhhmmm


SCAM

Fixed that for you. Baikals fastest product is 1.2GH/s so this is 9 times faster than that. Not a bad jump from iBeLinks last X11 miner of 384Mh/S. Thats 28x their existing product.

I am aware of 4 separate deals this manufacture is doing, or has proposed.  Each of them have been for 5k per miner.  For them to all of a sudden be $6750, when I know the other 3 of the 4 other deals have had time extensions to pay, is very unlikely.

I have always appreciated this mining community because we have mostly had each other's backs.  This sort of stuff is distasteful if true that there is built in costs not discussed with the community.  If you feel your time is worth a few extra miners, then say it and disclose it.  I don't think any of us would fault for that.  As soon as it is hidden, that is when trust is broken and we start to devolve into just another shitty community.

Reelan is a friend of mine and was also lied to by these people.  There are several of us.   

I needed to change the title so people do not think I am promoting this deal

CAN SOMEONE JUST SPIT IT OUT, IS IT THE MANUFACTURER OR THIS SO CALLED "PRIVATE GROUP" THATS SHADY?

private sellers are well trusted forum members

the private sellers will be identified to buyers before sale

buyers will all have individual contracts to sign also

we can pay direct to manufacturer

The "Private Group",  the manufacturer seems great

They are buckrodgers and Mindtrip.

I will contact iBelink about this thread right now.     DONE

So why must you go through the 'private group' to deal with the manufacturer? Can a direct deal not be organised at the $4998 price?

To be honest, kilo17 is correct on this one, because if there is no money/collateral tendered, then it isn't 100% secured no matter what. Lets say I decide to buy a Lamborghini and secured a contract saying so, so they do not sell that specific one to anyone else and only reserve it for me. If there is no money/collateral tendered, then I can freely backout and give them the finger a month later.

Yes but it gets messy like this and the manufacturer does not want to do it.   Which is very smart

So how did the 2 users form this forum get the ability to broker a deal?

It is not really brokering.  They say they are going to buy 100.  It appears they do not have the funds to cover the 100 units and want the community to cover it for them.

thank you!! you guys got me worried there with ibelink.

Now it makes more sense, yes shady to take nearly 1/4 of the stock without disclosing it.

Originally the numbers worked out for 20 units free but when Bittawn got involved the numbers changed to be 24 units.  Makes me wonder if he is now involved with the "deal" and is getting the 4 extra free ones.  You be the judge.

Listen guys you all know me, I would never leave the community high and dry,

Kilo is trying to sabotage here; take a look at his post history, he is a toxic troll

any serious buyers PM me and we can all talk with the manufacturer and seller.

Are you getting free units for helping to broker this deal? I think disclosure is a good things.

All I know is the manufacturer stated that they are sold out.
AFAIK this is the only way to get one.
Are there any better ideas?
I hear lots of negative comments, but nothing helpful in obtaining a rig at this time other than this offer.

Ok, that was a good one ???

It is starting to look like you are in on this fiasco.  The manufacturer wants 50% of the money and you want to make people pay for 100% upfront.

Are you getting paid with money, bitcoin or miners on this deal?  How much?

they are not sold out.

Is escrow allowed? lol

Can you point me to the website then? The russian site I went to said sold out. (http://bitbaza.com/)

I migth be interessed but all this is strange.
And I think that they are speaking of this group buy here :
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/new-ibelink-10-8-gh-s-x11-miner.14406/page-4
I dont understand bittawm why you dont get the first deal but now these peapole get it strange.

anyone know the mfg website?
All I can find is:

Hash Rate: 10,8GH/s ±5%
Power Consumption: 730 W (at the wall, with 25 °C ambient temp)
Power Efficiency: 0.07 W/MH (at the wall, with 25 °C ambient temp)
Number of TNB0303-FL28 chips per unit: 64
Operating Temperature: 0 °C to 40 °C
Network Connection: Ethernet
Power Supply: 110V to 240V, 50Hz/60Hz, PSU 850W included
Dimensions: 490mm(L)*350mm(W)*180mm(H)
Weight: 22 kg

The iBelink™ DM11G is the world's most power-efficient Dash and X11 ASIC miner. World’s best ROI for any X11 Dash miner or any other Asic miner. Extremely low power consumption only 730W.New 28nm ASIC chip TNB0303-FL28 with best Power Efficiency 0.07J/MH. This high-performance miner is brought to you by Tiannengbo Group, a consortium of high tech companies based in China. The iBelink™ DM11G is a highly-integrated Dash and X11 miner. You just need to connect a power cable and an Ethernet cable to set up the miner. It is designed for both large scale mining farm deployments as well as at-home mining. Four high speed cooling fans (by default connected to a 12V power supply) can be manually connected to a reserved 5V power supply after open box rewiring to minimize noise with the trade off of some hashing performance. This miner has been designed with several self-diagnosing, self-recovery, and automatic email warning capabilities to make your mining life easier. The iBeLink™ DM11G Dash and X11 miner contains 4 hashing blades and a Raspberry Pi B+. Each hashing blade contains 16 TNB0303-FL28 28nm ASIC chips, and can be managed (or controlled) for mining separately.
Sales Information:
The iBeLink™ DM11G is sold through bitbaza.com online store. Your order will be shipped to your address directly from China through DHL/UPS Worldwide Saver service. In general, it should take one to two weeks for your order to reach you. Shipping is not included in the price of the units. Payment is with bitcoin or in USD to Bank account in USA.
Warranty:
A 90-day warranty is provided starting from the shipping date. All sales are final. Defective machines will be repaired for free under the warranty policy. The following events will void the warranty: Overclocking the miner will void the warranty immediately. Customer removes/replaces any components by himself without receiving permission from manufacture. Damage caused by poor power supply, lightning or voltage surges. Burnt parts on hash boards or chips. Miner/boards/components damage due to water immersion or corrosion due to wet environment.

Price: 7500 USD

If this is legit I want one

Here is a test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4PJTFU4YRw

This whole DM11G story has been crazy since the news of this machine came up. However the buying process is just too risk and too many people involved, too many secrets of buyers. I will walk off for now until a more secure way of purchasing is brought to the playground.
Please remove my 2 units i had requested.

 

done

??? seen this already. Costs $7500 and out of stock.
Folks keep saying $5k, but I cannot locate it anywhere else for less than $7.5k, making this thread the only source I know of, and cheaper as well.

***Edited***

The community has been made aware.  If you are good with paying $6750 knowing that there is built in cost for others to get free miners, then no need continuing down the path of some massive expose' as you believe there is still value in that price. 

I, for one, will never look at a group buy the same again though.

This thread is so tiring and confusing. Why cant the manufacturer just be like Bitmain or Canaan. Maybe that time yet to come    :-\

I am guessing this is how it went. Could be a long shot... lol

1. bittawm opened a thread of a new x11 miner at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1888522.0 and try to get a group buy going because of a deadline.

2. The "Private Group" saw the thread and got interest.

3. "Private Group" decided to just sideline the group buy and contact manufacture and say can buy it all to grab it first and seal the deal (even though they can't pay for it all).

4. bittawm is now made aware from the manufacture that it is no longer available.

5. "Private Group" is now like, "OK, how we going pay for all of this, we got a good ass deal, worst case, we back out, doesn't matter, because we locked in a deal from any outsiders".

6. "Private Group" ponders, and saw a light bulb, "AHH HA, how about we start another group buy selling for higher cost to cover our cost!"

7. Now this is where we are at...

The end... LOL

Why every miner buying action has to be so god damn confusing, shady and full with mistery?

maybe its confusing and shady because we are trying to get something we arent supposed to have yet, it takes that to get something only a reseller can obtain and afford in their position, if this gets pulled off and works and everyones happy then its worth the risk and the small premium on the price. Imagine how much the resellers will charge us in 3+ months...and no guarantee u wont miss out even then. Baikal and pinidea are prob worried bigtime when this order ships, well at least baikal..

sounds really strange...all of this.

I personally don't care if someone could get a benefit from such a big order.
But what I care is that everything is working smooth without additional risks.

I mean we all have a high risk level already.


The most confident way would be:

1. 50% direct payment , 50% on shipping
2. Shipping directly to his own address (at least to Bittawm)


We can't be 100% sure if thats all true..regarding that miner but to get additional risk with the privat reseller, 100% direct payment, additional stopover etc.. would be to much.
If it's possible to do it like that I'm willing to risk 1 Unit maybe, otherwise I need to think more carefully about this.


@Bittawm
   you've the closest contact to the manufactuere, could you get some infos regarding the CE-Marking?
   It's necessary to allow a legal import to germany.

This whole thing sounds like a scam to me. I would not send anyone bitcoin without escrow on this deal. Even a "manufacturer". Be careful people.

I still remember back when there was a group buy of the Avalon 6 Bitcoin miner and kilo17 bought enough where the seller BlockC (USA distributer for Avalon 6) let us piggyback on his discounts for more orders for ourselves and the group buy handler (philipma1957) paid directly to BlockC. Went sooo smoothly.

What safety net is there if Bittawm send funds to reseller instead of directly to the manufactuer?

Ok so can Buckrodgers or Mindtrip chime in and confirm this? That in itself seems like the best method of response right now for the community.

Kilo, I appreciate your diligence on getting these answers, I understand your intentions here are in an effort to protect everyone involved.



This is an interesting perspective and if I understand correctly, here is how the math breaks down.

$5000 per miner x 100 miners = $500,000 + ? Shipping costs

$6750 per miner x 76 miners = $513,000

Scenario: So from here I see a potential scenario where someone arranges a private group buy for 100 units that they can't pay for. The facilitate this group buy by marking up the base cost of the miner to a higher dollar amount and only sell enough to cover the total cost of the purchase plus potential shipping costs for the 100 miners, in this scenario that is 76 miners. They then keep the remaining 24 miners for themselves.

I'm not saying that's what is happening here but it seems very questionable.

To be clear: I'm not pointing fingers or accusing anyone involved here. I just see what could be a potential questionable scenario.

If Buckrodgers and/or Mindtrip are indeed the private party facilitating this, can either of you please clarify?

I'm interested in one of these given some outstanding questions are answered; Thanks.

On top of all of this smokescreen we still don't know if these things are currently in manufacturing or if this is vaporware or anything.

I'm in for 1 unit

I would take 1 piece, if there are any guarantees

I find it odd that no one has pointed yet to the mfg website. All I have seen is a Russian language video.
Is there anything else to go on here?

This new video (as of may 1st 2017) of the ibelink miner is partly english: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4PJTFU4YRw

I am from Russia, at the site http://bitbaza.com/shop/25/desc/ibelinkdm11g the price is $ 7500, but the minimum lot is 10 pieces (

Count me in for 1 if there is an escrow.

Can you visit and see in person?

I have contacted their apparent skype and am seeking further verification of their machine.

Ive contacted them where they emailed  me specs and buying details where they said they only sold 100 units or more. Its real
https://dualminer.3dcartstores.com/crm.asp?action=contactus

Let me get this straight;

 - 10800 Mhs X11 miner that only uses 728 watts (https://youtu.be/ASIAUhgbXrQ?t=67);
 - at $6750 that comes down to about 23 days to hit ROI at $0.10 kWh as per coinwarz;
 - proof is 1(?) sketchy video;
 - paying to a private group.

After the second point I'm not sure why anyone with half a brain would even consider this. Why would anyone sell such a retardedly profitable miner to anyone instead of printing money themselves?

When did you contact them and they replied that they are still selling them in units of 100?  I think we were lead to believe that they were all sold out already.  If they are in fact still selling them in blocks of 100 then this new price of $6750 perfectly lines up with what others are saying that someone is looking for others to fund their purchase.

Something just doesn't sound right.  If the manufacturer is still selling blocks of 100 then we should be talking to them directly and arranging this purchase.  The details are just too scarce and seem quite questionable. 

I would love to see specifics here.

Agreed, but exactly who is the manufacturer? I cannot find any references to this miner anywhere else other than the Russian site, and im sure he's a re-seller (VAR) at best.
Goes back to my question about where is the OEM web site and contact info?
I don't want to deal with the VAR if I can avoid it.

I agree I couldn't find an ibelink website.. Bittawm said he was in contact with the manufacturer so maybe he will share contact info or at least shed light on this facet?

The info listed in the disclaimer info I have seen seems to indicate the web site for the manufacturer is http://www.dualminer.com/

I don't know for sure, but I saw someone else also linked to them for "contact us".

I asked if they could provide me proof of miner so I can show this thread, this was the response received from Qing Zhu via skype

Thank you for your offer. We are busy with our customers at the moment and will close the preorder in a few days. I love to get back to you to address your guy's concern at some point.

This should be simple to solve.
The PRIVATE INVERSTORS want to resell these to us so they can get free machines right, i think that is very clear by now.

Show us PROOF that you PAID your contract then i'm sure everyone will jump in and buy.

Now you hold 100 units with the manufactor and don't have funds to pay and wants the community to pay for you so you can get 24 free units is a RIPOFF
.
One thing is to buy a product with YOUR money and resell it so you can make profit = LEGIT BUSINESS

another is trying to use everyone's else money because you don't have money and in the end get 24 free units = TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE!!!!!

I don't agree. If the "seller" has something to offer that cannot be obtained other ways, then the "seller" is in a position to mark-up said product. This is simple supply-demand.
It doesn't matter to me if the "seller" get's paid BTC/cash and then goes and buys 24 rigs, or if they get 24 rigs via pool purchase.
In the end, if the "customer" is satisfied with the purchase then the "seller" did right by the customer.
Why should I care that "someone" get's 24 free rigs, as long as I am able to get a product I want at a price I want to buy it for...

I would have more respect for them if they point blank said.  "Hey we are buying 100 miners and are going to sell X number of them".  

A markup in price would be expected.  Something reasonable like a $500 or $1000 per unit would seem acceptable.  Just be up front about it.  The way this is coming across at this point seems very questionable.  

At this point it would make sense to go to the manufacturer quickly and see if we could lock in 100 units if we think we can raise the funds to buy that many.    

Yes, but how? I still have not located any contact info for this rig other than the russian VAR.

What you mean cannot be obtained other ways? If you have 250k you can buy it just like ANYONE else can. Do you want the manufactors info PM me i will send it to you. The way these private inverstors are doing is taking advantage of people. That's the bottom line of it PERIOD!

If that is the case i can talk to the manufactor arrange a group buy we will need 100 units and the cost will be whatever the manufactors charge which is 4999,99.
50% now and 50% when its done.

x2 on this.

If it's a reputable re-seller running a "pre-order" at an increased cost because the re-seller has arranged a buy for X amount of units at X price and is using pre-order funds to fund that purchase. I can't say there is anything wrong with that as long as the re-seller is reputable. However, I can say its a tad questionable because if the order isn't fullfilled and the minimum quanitity isn't sold, then no one gets anything if the re-seller doesn't make up the difference. If that happens, refunds would have to be given and if it's a reputable re-seller, that shouldn't be an issue.

What is questionable is conducting this type of "pre-order" as a reseller without explaining the facts to the public. If my described scenario above turns out to be true and people are willing to buy 76 miners at a 35% mark-up while the reseller pockets that revenue, miner, whatever profit as a result; there is nothing wrong with that.

My only concern here are getting the facts out there and the questionable items addressed.

If the re-seller is reputable and we can get 76 allocated before the deadline, I'd be willing to buy 1.

I think this is the link for contacting them if what others have posted is correct:
https://dualminer.3dcartstores.com/crm.asp?action=contactus

Exactly my point. There is nothing wrong with buying a product with YOUR money and reselling for profit, that is how SERIOUS business is done in this world.
Not trying to come here and be like OHH I'M HELPING EVERYONE GET A UNIT FOR 35% HIGHER THAN IT COSTS using YOUR money as collateral so i can get 24 free units.

I agree, based upon some of the information out there, I think the manufacturer is up against a deadline for orders or isn't willing to deal with general public.

I am starting to think if we can get a direct dialog going with the manufacturer quickly and we thought we could secure the 100 units with community members then that would be a wise move.  

Right now we are not being given the info required to make a sound decision.  If the reseller is reputable it should not be a problem to put that info out in the public.  The fact this is still being hidden from the community is worrying.  Reputable being the key word.

I cannot buy from the OEM since I don't have any contact info, and although I have requested it several times recently I still do not have the OEM details. The only contact I have is a VAR in Russia.
If you have a way to contact the OEM, please share, or at least allow others to piggy-back off your order.

I have direct contact with them! If we can get 100 units in we can make a clean buy in with them for the original price.

How many units one has to have in order to mine with 10800MH/s? This is half a million question. Open Your eyes...

https://i.imgur.com/4tBrXuH.jpg

We will see, I sent a note to them and asked if they are the OEM and what the MOQ and other details.
If I hear anything I will reply here.

We don't really know what happened over the 3+ hours you have underlined, but certainly the average MHs is rather low.
The 5-second average seems to indicate that at that specific time interval it did achieve approx 10GHs.
It's possible they were not actively mining during the entire 3+ hours, or trying different pools and other stuff which can affect the long-term average.
But yes, I would like to see a longer run with a higher overall average throughput.

Replied to your PM already  ;)

The machine still mining you can see at http://106.120.52.201:7903/static/

That's pretty amazing and almost too good to be true, that's the reason there are so many questions surrounding this.

I have a video of it running too. I think we can cross off the question whether the machine is real or not!!
The machine is REAL!

Can we get the manufacturer to talk to us since we are small fish?  The question is could we scrape up the orders for 100 miners in short notice?  Or do we have some forum members with the resources to float that size of a purchase and work with us? 

I'm not yet convinced, too many unanswered questions.

Just 1 of these would ROI in 27 days and make almost $100,000 annually -- Here is a candid question: Why in the hell would this company want to mass produce them to drive difficulty up which will lower their rate of return? They could produce a small batch of them, payoff their R&D, then bank some -- then MAYBE release them to public.

Perhaps this has already been done? Who knows.

What I do know is what others have outlined regarding the scam potential:

• Seems too good to be true
• There is a truncated time table requiring an immediate response or immediate action or else you'll "miss the boat" in purchasing
• Resellers that aren't answering questions
• Manufacturer that is near impossible to contact and doesn't seem to care about answering questions as observed in this thread
• General questionable behavior
• General lack of information available regarding the product
• No single Bitcointalk trusted member can verify authenticity and put their physical hands on the product yet

Bottom Line

---

Too many questions, not enough answers

Nice consensus, I feel the same.

Interested if you can get the groupbuy going in another topic

Well I think we have to keep in mind they are talking about dropping 3000 units onto the network, and I seriously doubt that Baikal will be left out of the party.  So diff will go to the moon and profitability will shrink dramatically.  So I think we have to keep that in mind.  If you are going to have a shot at ROI you would need to be one fo the first to get your hands on one of these and mine like crazy...  That would likely stretch out to a 6-8mth ROI, but still likely to make you something in the first year.  

Yup, I anticipate this as well, if you get in early, you'll make it back. I'm all about that, just sucks there is so much drama and unanswered questions around this.

If this thing is true though and they drop 3000 of them equating to 3.2TH onto the network = Baikal won't really be worth anything in a matter of months unless they produce a competing product.

My dilemma right now is if I drop $6750 into this or that same amount into some ZEC rigs, who will win in the end?

Baikal was talking about a large hash rate miner last year on their web site, but that vanished.  So I suspect they have something in the works.   I don't think they will be left out of this "arms race".  I suspect we will probably be hearing something from them shortly about a new miner. 

You guys should be reading the thread about this on the DASH forums too if you are seriously considering dropping this much BTC on this thing.  It is worth pointing out that ibelink released an x11 miner last year that was 384 Mh/s that looked identical to this thing.
http://www.dualminer.com/iBeLink-DM384M-Dash-and-X11-Miner_p_36.html

screen shots of software here:
http://cryptomining-blog.com/tag/ibelink-dm384m-x11-asic-miner/

I am still unconvinced that this thing exists and the recent one isn't somehow faked using one of these old miners from last year.  Also as someone pointed out in the DASH forum, the hashrate itself can be duplicated using baikal giants (or pinidea hardware for that matter) so seeing an address on P2Pool doing 10 GH\s is not proof of much.

I am conservative so kindly consider me out with my 2 units.

Then it seems we're gonna stay with baikal.
At least we know very well all the dumb things they pull.

Let me be very clear.


1. BTC is paid to manufacturer directly
2. We all get individual contracts to sign.
3. all buyers get to validate all the resellers credentials and also be introduced to them
4. LET ME BE CLEAR, KILO DOES NOT KNOW SHIT; THIS ORDER IS GOING THROUGH REGARDLESS IF ANYONE HERE ON BITCOINTALK JUMPS ON BOARD. THESE GUYS HAD ENOUGH QUANTITY TO FILL THE ORDER BEFORE I CAM ALONG.

If you want to jump on board with me let me know, I am sending my own btc and this thread has just become something else.

the CE markings wont be a problem contact the manufacturer

Hi Bittawm, Thanks for your work on this.

I appreciate your 3 points of clarification. Can you provide any additional details at this time? Are you able at this time to answer some of the questions that have been asked? Are you in contact with the reseller? Are they available to post here?

In regards to your difference to Kilo, his concerns are shared by many of us and we are all seeking to understand.

We all understand that this is going through with or without us, that part is clear. What we don't understand or have answers to is many of the questions outlined above.

I'm sure you can appreciate everyone's concern here and when you look at the information on the table, we don't have a lot of information to go on right now and more questions than answers.

I want to be clear that I'm not faulting you or anyone here, I'm just looking for answers.

no worries, let me know exactly what answers you want and ill answer them like 1. 2. 3.

I am in contact with seller, they can send you a private message to verify

For starters, what about the questions in bold I asked? I can go through this thread and dig out others asked if needed

Edit: Is there a reason that the reseller does not want to be publicly identified?

Edit: Are we sure that this account hasn't been the victim of a compromise? Do you have a method of identity verification for this person or reseller?

Can you provide any additional details at this time?

1. let me know what you need.

 Are you able at this time to answer some of the questions that have been asked?

2. let me know what you need


Are you in contact with the reseller?

3. yes

 Are they available to post here?

4. they can send you a private message

Sorry, I added a couple of questions to my post.

Edit: Is there a reason that the reseller does not want to be publicly identified?

Edit: Are we sure that this account hasn't been the victim of a compromise? Do you have a method of identity verification for this person or reseller?

1. Once the deal is signed they will be officially, publicly identified

2. yes we have Identity verification and other credentials, of which all of the buyers will have before sale is complete

Kilo knows you wont get scammed here he is just upset that someone is making some BTC and he missed out #facts

Does my name taste good, cause it's all up in your mouth.

I already said I am in for 1 and am sticking with that. But what is the timeline for this preorder?

EDIT: Oh first post says Wednesday! 5/3

Why the secrecy on the identity? Are they trying to avoid some sort of spotlight or direct targeting since this deal could potentially leave the reseller the beneficiary of 24 miners worth of profit? -- I'm not knocking it, just asking if you can shed some light on this subject.

Thank you for affirming that you personally can provide identity verification of the reseller.

For those reading and for general information I have the next set of questions:

• If someone wants to make a purchase, what are the next steps for them?
• When these miners ship in +3 months? How will they be contacted? By the manufacturer?
• How is payment for shipping arranged and what payment options will there be?

The secrecy is really turning me off to this deal, if I brokered a deal, I'd say hey guys . . its me and I made this deal. Here's the deal explained. .

I think that groupbuy is going to escalate.
It's getting more and more complicated and I guess in a short time nobody can follow up anymore.

Can anyone confirm that the avg. Hashrate is at 10800MH/s?
In all the pics/clips/videos I found very poor avg. Hashrates only.

At the screenshot from "chup" the iBelink DM11G miner had an avg. Hashrate of only approx. 800MH/s running already 3,5h.
At the first youtube video from the iBelink DM11G the miner doesnt even got above 90MH/s after running already 2h.
Did anyone see that this miner reached the desired Hashrate by running for a period of time? I can't get it.


And why do we have an additional Groupbuy for the iBelink DM11G from kilo17?
Does the manufacturer playing with us or is it that easy to order big amounts of miners?


Everything is so strange... and I thought a Groupbuy gives a bit security and a better risk/reward ratio.



Hope that can be clarified asap

• If someone wants to make a purchase, what are the next steps for them?

contact me let me know purchase quantity, Pay me, I pay manufacturer

• When these miners ship in +3 months? How will they be contacted? By the manufacturer?

these products will be shipped to our reseller after before july 31st, then they will send direct to buyers

• How is payment for shipping arranged and what payment options will there be?

multiple shipping options from USA, freight cost gets either sent to me or the reseller

Btw all,

kilos deal will likely fail, whatever happens this is going through.

The manufacturer does not require 100% upfront period. They require 50% upfront and 50% at time of delivery. The smart way to do it is to escrow 50% with a reputable escrow to protect buyers. These are the terms that all teams acquiring 100 units of batch 1 have received.

There are several groups that are buying miners from the first production batch. The terms are the same for all groups, and one of the requirements is 100 units minimum order quantity. That's it.

I specifically asked them to point a miner at my address with one miner and received no reply from them

The site bitbaza requires an advance payment of 50%

Senor Buttawn is trying to get some free miners as well.  Why can't you guys be honest?  This has scam written all over it.

If Mindtrip and Fuckrogers had the money they would not be trying to hustle the community for 76 more units.  The manufacturer has a contract that says $4998 per unit.  IT DOES NOT SAY - $4998 and cheaper for 150-200 units.

Wake up - these guys are hustling you and Buttawn is a fucking scammer.  

Can you provide proof that the miners are going to be shipped directly to the customers?  My understanding is that they will NOT be shipping that way.

You might want to check out Kilo's thread on a "Group Buy" for these.  If he can get 50 units sold here on the forum that group buy will happen.  And it is all going to be handled via escrow.  This process sounds much clearer and much less risk.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1898421.0

look these guys have secured this deal and if you are not interested then go to  kilos thread (which will fail)

how dare you accuse me of being a scammer, that is low.

Miners will not be shipped directly to customers as explained, all buyers can have it in writing that there machines will be shipped in timely fashion from the USA reseller.

What payment options are there and does this deal still expire tomorrow?

the deal does expire tomorrow (because contract will be signed done and dusted, I dont think kilo will end up getting any contracts signed in the end) and the payment options are BTC or DASH

Aside from the price difference biggest differences between these two GB's are it appears yours is moving forward even if the allocated amount is not pre-paid for and you're accepting BTC or DASH, the other currently only identifies as accepting wire transfer but has an extra ~72 hours until its expired and details could change.

For me I want the best bang for my buck and for either GB I have to make some tough decisions about how I want to spend my money or crypto. A 35% markup over cost is a significant premium especially when we don't know how much difficulty is going to jump or how many of these miners is going to be delivered during batch 1. Any way you slice it, there is a lot at risk aside from delivery of the miners.

Our agreement will be safer than kilos and is guaranteed

 kilo is late to the party

 our deal has been planned for months

kilo is trying to mash potato something together out of spite.

Really?  Why is this thread 2 days old?

Even me important is the fact that you "trust" the private buyers that you have only known for 2 days with large sums of the communities cash- while no risk to you.

Since your response will likely be you have dealt with them previously, save us some time and post evidence.

Also you said "safer" in your last post- meaning handing over cash to a guy that is giving it to 2 "private guys" is safer than..... Yours sounds VERY safe.

I'll take door number 2

you are an idiot sir.

I am paying the manufacturers direct

This group buy is stressing me out lol, I am changing my group buy order back to the Pandaminers, sorry for the trouble in changing.

no worries mate

You are paying the manufacturer and the miners are being shipped to the "Private People"

Who's the idiot  ???

still you mate,

kilo knows these sellers personally and I have a transcrip from him saying he knows they wont scam he is just upset because they are charging more.

anyone who participates in this group buy will be well informed who the private sellers are and will be sent all credentials

Good luck with your scam.  I hope your future Group Buys and online store work out.

Btw-  I saw a question earlier asking what your take is on this deal.  It seems you avoided the question.

I have not avoided any questions, my take on this deal is it is SAFE, I am organising it as I have many others before this

lol, wow, what a thread, awesome.

 Nice to know the kind of "trusted members" here that only see the noobs as fish to eat, 35% markup for what? 24 free machines, a free farm on the communities back
i think door number 2 looks pretty good as well

The sad part is if you were upfront, as someone said before and i agree, a premium for paid equipment, that's business, but the WAY you went about this, is nothing short of a slap in the face to the community, greedy fuckers haha
I hope people remember what greed can do to decent dudes from this atleast :/, tho i think we all knew already, just sux to SEE it 

hold on how was I not upfront?

Glad to see some other reasonable people chime in to stop this craziness or at least let people know this looks like many of the scams from the early days

You HAVE avoided questions.  You still refuse to confirm who the sellers are.  Why?  You also ignored my PM last night showing you that these miners are 5k, not $6750.  This level of secrecy really bothers me. 

I was the one that backed out of the deal from your OP.  My investors did not like the fact the lack of disclosure that the miners were actually $5,000 and not $5,500 we were being charged.  After seeing Bittawm's group buy for 5k, along with 2 other pending deals from Ibelink pricing the miners at $5k, they felt that there was money being skimmed off the top, very much like this thread here.  Once I made my investor's concerns made known and was firm on them, then I was offered the miners at $5,000 plus whatever shipping/customs would be.

Kilo's deal will only fail if there isn't enough interest, not for lack of authenticity.  At least he has the integrity to detail out every cost itemized instead of the doubt being cast on this thread.  The sellers will be made known after the purchase is made?  Why?  That makes absolutely no sense.

This is what they emailed me, i think its strange how they didnt say they were sold out either

---,

This is an auto-generated email from an address that does not accept replies.

The case number --- has been updated.
You can check this case status by visiting this web page: http://www.dualminer.com/crm.asp?mk=hkgcce3----

(Hotmail users may need to copy/paste this link into a browser manually.)

Important: If you have a "this is not spam" button in your email program, please click it to ensure you receive our next email when a representative responds to this case.

Ticket status: New

Department: Sales

Subject: DualMiner.com: Update Tracking #---

As you probably have seen from a recently posted video on Youtube, Bitbaza (one of our customer from Russia) showed a new miner - iBeLink DM11G with 10.8GH/s. We hereby confirm that it is our latest 28nm X11 Miner. The technical specification is listed below:
 Hash Function: X11
 Hash Rate: 10.8 GH/s ±5%
 Power Consumption: 750 W (at the wall, with 25°C ambient temp)
 Power Efficiency: 0.07 J/MH (at the wall, with 25°C ambient temp)
 Number of TNB0303 chips per unit：64
 Operating Temperature: 0 °C to 40 °C
 Network Connection: Ethernet
 Power Supply: 110V to 240V, 50Hz/60Hz
 Certifications: FCC, CE
 Dimensions: 490mm(L)*350mm(W)*180mm(H)
 Weight: 21kg(with packing boxes)

At this moment, this product is only going through preorder for customers with larger than 100 units.
We will announce that publicly as soon as it is open for general international sales.

Andy
Tiannengbo Group


Sincerely,
Broadeng Inc.

https://dualminer.3dcartstores.com/crm.asp?action=contactus

What are you getting from this deal? are you getting free units or getting paid ?

yes I am getting paid BTC for facilitating this transaction, its no secret.

Interesting, When I hosted a group buy here on the forum I did it for the benefit of the community, not because I got paid to do it.  That should have been mentioned before now.

This just keeps getting more interesting and makes more sense in light of other group buys.  I think CLEAR disclosure of all parties involved are needed before anyone sends anyone a penny here.  If after everyone understands WHO is getting paid and what then proceed at your own risk. 

For now it makes a lot of sense to look at the thread that Kilo started if you are interested in getting one of these miners.  Please be aware of the risks.

Now I would add that anyone who is following the 11G miner online will note that the hash rate continues to fall and is not hashing anywhere near it's advertised 10.8gh.   http://106.120.52.201:7903/static/

Secondly I would like to mention that other wonderful and seasoned people here on this forum who have been through many trials and tribulations with pre-orders and other manufacturers have reminded me that many other companies have gone before this one with pre-orders on new equipment and they hardly if EVER ship on time, if they SHIP ANYTHING at all.

Perfect example is a group buy I hosted for the A4 miners with Innosilicon.  Inno is a good company and has a good reputation so I put my neck and money on the line.  I negotiated a deal where we could buy the miners in a smaller quantity than they requested for the community.  We placed our orders and waited, and waited, and waited some more.  The ship date continued to slide.  Then unfortunately Inno gave in to the pressure to ship "something" and the miners had issues which took many months to get resolved.  They got resolved because Inno stood behind their product and were willing to work with us as a community.  It did get resolved, but it was HARD and took time. 

Will that be the case here with iBelink miners?  I am reminded that this is not an exception to the rule, but generally with new miners you are going to see delays.  So that July ship date could easily turn into August, Sept, October ship dates.  What happens between now and then?  Will Baikal also be releasing a competing miner in this space? 

So the risks are many.  Not ONLY in trusting who you are buying from here on the forum, but who is making the miners and are they going to back the product?  We as a community were lucky with the Inno A4's because Inno is a good company.  I can also say that I believe that is true of Baikal from my own experiences with them and talking to them.  They are small, over-run with demand, and playing serious catch up.  But Dualminer? iBelink?  That is anyone's guess.  Maybe someone with experience with them can chime in and share what they know about this company and it's business practices.

So I encourage you all to continue to ask questions and to think this through.  Those of us pointing out the problems with this deal don't have any financial interest in steering you in one direction or another.  We are only sharing our observations and experiences. 

I feel very lucky to have many of you here on this forum as friends that would speak up and share your knowledge and experience and point out the red flags.  I consider the mining community here my friends.  So it is a bit hurtful when I think my friends may be getting taken advantage of and lots and lots of secrets here...  So please proceed with caution. 

Note posted in both threads:




I read both threads just now. I commented that I may do the escrow on kilo17's thread before I realized this thread was first.
I was away from home Sunday Monday Tuesday attending an Aunt's funeral.

Okay passing no judgement on bittawm or kilo17

Passing no judgement on the builder.

 Just doing  math  I need an answer to one Question


pretend I pay this friday 5th of may 6700 here.

pretend I pay this friday 5th of may 2500 to kilo17 escrow and then 2500 when item ships.

I need to know lead time  from payment this 5th of may to ship time  are we at a lead-time of 60 days July 5th  or 75 days July 20th  what is that promised time. for ship.

note I am posting this in kilo's thread.

Right now I see 2 people I like and have done deals with good deals.
I see 2 people fighting.

all due to a builder that is asking for a lot of  $$$ upfront.

I don't like to see this.

I don't like seeing us played against on another.

So could some one give me promised date for shipping.

I think the "Private Group" created chaos in the community because they wanted to come up on this deal. And Kilo didn' like that.

So, wouldn't it be better if all the people that wanted in on this deal from this thread to join Kilo thread (Ego's put aside)? Since it will help met the 50 requirement mark easier and save the community $1050 each, which is the main cause, to help us all save right? That way, it will say screw you "Private Group", and we still get our orders in at a cheaper price? Win Win situation?

I am not sure if kilos sale will even go through even if he does meet the requirement,

 our order will be more secure and is 100% happening already

All this group buy stuff aside. Remember ..with the best of intentions on both group buys. This is a 'pre-order' ..thus again if they say 3 months add a month and make it 4 months.
Also add another month if the price pumps ...a tendancey for mnfg to mine a month and then ship ..if the 'delays' make them big bucks (ie bitmain/knc/bfl etc)

Unless I had a guy I trusted on here...see the prototype forking and film it...I'd be cautious.

Anyway not a slam to anyone. But not enough info imho in either group buy thread to comit as fast as they seem to need the coin.

Also remember ibelink was LATE on their first miner as well , from what I understand :)

good luck

stay tuned for video updates

Totally agreed here.  Not to dump on your thread or Kilo's, but after all the fake and promised hardware that never made it to fruition I would be hard pressed to offer up my money for something that is basically vaporware.  I'm surprised that so many people are jumping in on this as if people don't remember all the other pre-order scams from the past.  I believe that both of you have good intentions to get the miners into the buyers hands, I just don't trust that these miners will ever be made.

I've sent an e-mail to the manufactory and address the following topics below.
If they respond i will post it here.

Hi
I have been thinking about a proposal for you to make the mining community.
There has been a lot of speculation regarding your product, trust issues with your company and all.
I think the main concern of everyone that wants to buy your product are:

1-) Is the machine really able to do 10ghs?
2-) Who is the manufactory?
3-) Can we see credentials for the factory?
4-) Who is the CEO and what are his credentials?
5-) Why only sell in lots of 100 and require immediate payment?

Here are my suggestions to you

1- I've seen video of the machine working, i would suggest you setup a time and date and do a live feed, where people can ask questions and the machine be fully tested, that would solve trust issues with the product.

2-) I would suggest you put up your company information, certifications and all so people can see you have a real and trusted company.

3-) Allow an audit so we everyone can know from a third-party company that you have capability of producing these machines.

4-) I've seen some linkedin accounts linked to your name, if it's you I think people would know you are a trusted person because you have worked in big companies before.

5-) Looks like all buyers that signed or wanted to sign contract with you, most of them don't have funds to back it up by themselves, you are selling at 4999 and people are trying to sell at 6750 7500 so they have enough funds to pay you. This has caused MAJOR conflict with the community.
I would think would be MUCH MUCH easier if you opened for single orders or at least lower the minimum to 2-5 units and charged a higher price, this way people would be able to purchase directly from you and not having to go thru the hassle of buying from resellers.

I'm sure if you can take care of those 5 topics above, things will go much smooth and everyone will be happy.
You can start production on the machine.
People can buy your product at reasonable price and not having to worry about it.

In the end EVERYONE IS HAPPY!!!

Well, their response was pretty damn quick.
I quote below

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1898909.new#new