Bitcoin Forum

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers

they do mine the majority. if they started to censor transactions regularly i'm pretty sure the bitcoin community would be so outraged they'd find themselves mining nothing when they changed the proof of work.

i'd say they are vulnerable to political pressure because it's so centralized. they can't hide and they must be known to authorities. if that pressure spilt over into affecting bitcoin users again they'd be on their own.

I think you're talking about %51 attack. You can google it as "%51 attack on bitcoin" and see the results. In this case, they can make what transaction they want orphan. Which means they have authority not to confirm any transaction they don't want so.

Alright I see what you're saying - not such an issue for day-to-day users though I gather. In terms of reversing transactions... I still am unsure on that mind you. Any thoughts?

I guess they really bitcoin farm in the chinese are really big farms are almost big farm miner are in there but doesnt mean they can control the value of the coin price they are controlling it but they can do it in a sense of mining share could easily minimize the bitcoin supply and storing it to the price of the bitcoin will really get affected.

They are blocking scaling upgrade for quite some time and you don't see the bitcoin community outraged, many people actually defend them, if they start censoring transactions and price continues to increase people would go with it and many would even defend them saying it's their right to chose transactions.

They've not the ability. Because to reverse the transaction and you must control the majority of bitcoin nodes. I think if that's impossible right now. The spread of nodes around the world still keeps the decentralized aspect of bitcoin.
That's true.
https://blockchain.info/pools

BTCC, F2POOL, ANTPOOL, BITFURY

I think all of them are the Chinese pools

"The Chinese" are not one group.  Therefore while a large amount of hashrate is based in China, that doesn't mean that the pools which make up that hashrate necessarily collaborate with each other.

For example, F2Pool's leader Wang Chun conducted a poll and found that a majority of people viewing their Twitter wanted them to signal SegWit, so they decided to do that.

However, Antpool's leader Jihan Wu decided to signal for BU.  So they're in opposition and are definitely not collaborating.

While a 51% attack is extremely unlikely in Bitcoin's current state, it would not fully compromise the network even if it were to occur, and if it did people would eventually switch pools to remove the attackers' power. 

As I understand it, there are only a few things people with 51% of the hash rate can do:

-Stop certain transactions from getting confirmations, thus making them invalid (if this actually happened the reports would be wide enough for people to switch pools);

-Reverse their own transactions.  They still can't fiddle with the already confirmed transactions or with people's wallets, but they can fiddle with the transactions that they send;

-Briefly prevent other miners from getting blocks?  I don't quite get the details of this part.

Anyway, while it would cause some temporary panic, it most likely wouldn't completely destroy Bitcoin's use.

So, yes, the miners in China are essentially the largest in the network and they do control a majority of the hashing power, and they're likely going to stay in a position like that for a long time unless other countries have miners that start to go hard with investing in infrastructure and getting their act together to try and beat the Chinese monopoly.

Some transactions can be blocked with enough hashing power, or "reversed", but it is unlikely for something like that to happen, yet.

The Chinese dominance in the Bitcoin mining scene is overrated and blown up by the media. There are also big mining farms that are not situated

in China and some of these pools consist of people from different countries. The 51% attack is more of an issue with double spends and not a

reversal of transactions. Satoshi created Bitcoin in a way that miners are kept honest and if they do something to sabotage the network, then

they themselves will suffer.  ;)

Use of bitcoin is increasing day by day. I have heard that btctrip.com is a fantastic good website to use. Completely the use of Bitcoin will not be destroyed.

to answer the OP.. no

for instance
bitfury is managed internationally
Slushpool. people think is managed by "china". infact its a guy in thailand
even antpool has farms all over the world aswell as stratums around the world and offices around the world

calling mining "chinese" is like calling terrorists middle easterners.. yet its the west that wants to attack the east more

the problem is not race, but scripts wrote by racists,
reddit FUD of bitcoin is becoming worse than Fox News fud of real world affairs, in regards to racism and twisting narratives

Just because majority of mining farms located in China doesn't make them Bitcoin super power. They are not working as cartel, nor thus their government leading them. So it is just mere possibility or speculation to say that Chinese controlling Bitcoin blockchain. The Chinese miners are as similar to other miners working in different countries.

China is the undisputed leader in Bitcoin mining. There are situated a lot of mining farms. The main reason for this is cheap electricity. 

please stop reading the same reddit scripts. do some research on real stats!

electric is not the number one.
but speaking of electric
iceland, georgia have nice amount of asic farms due to good deals with electric companies.

asic manufacturers dont care much about electric.
they make a rig for under $500 but retail it for $2k. meaning for every rig sold they get to make a rig for that customer and either:
1. make 3 other rigs for themselves for free.. and then only have to pay electric with the bitcoin rewards from mining with the 3rigs

OR

2. make 2 other rigs for themselves for free.. have $500 spare to cover electric for months. meaning all rewards are 100% profit

You shouldn't argue about the China domination with a newbie who has the nickname chain_chain...lol

Joke aside it's like their domination in bitcoin trade ... which proved to be false.
Or in bitcoin comerce which is 0.

People like to think China is so great so doing much stuff big ..huuuuge pussy.
Reality is different.
But you't be able to talk sense into newbies post hunting here.

A majority of the large pools have a majority of their hashing power coming from Chinese sources, and a large amount of hashing power in general comes from China, presumably due to the cheap electricity, cheap storage and relative ease of accumulation of materials or labor from the local area.
Technically they could reverse transactions if they accumulated all of their effort in a single pool, but that is unlikely.

Oh yeah that makes total sense, i'm kicking myself for not thinking into it a bit more myself...

In that case, BITCOIN would fall in control of only a few people? That doesn't confirm on original satoshi's design.  ???  ???
It can then be used to block or reject China's enemy country's transaction???  Economic sabotage! ;D

Yeah, bright idea.
Once they do this the bitcoin saga comes to an end.
It's like digging your own grave.

Once people will start blocking transactions from certain region services etc etc... bitcoin = government.
Nobody will use it anymore, so nobody will care about China and their miners.

The government is trying to brainwash people into giving the miners %100 controls with clients like Buggy Unlimited. They know that they can't simply begin to start censoring transactions because the community would rebel, but after years of brainwashing people in telling them full validating nodes don't matter and how we need onchain coffees, the chinese miners could end up with datacenters running nodes and miners in other words BTC becomes chinacoin.

I think the Council bitcoin China is gradually acquiring bitcoin, they are the trader with a link extremely tight and very difficult to guess, just a small trading floor of China, then the bitcoin will fall badly, and there is the prospect of the current

what the hell are you talking about here!
this topic is talking about the share of "mining farms" in china not the trading volume.

and even if was talking about trading volume, now everyone knows the volume coming from China has always been fake. and this "council bitcoin China" is an imaginary thing you have come up with in your dreams my friend :)

I do believe that majority of mining farm is located in China but I doubt that majority of it is owned by chinese. The reason for this is that if ever the majority of hashes is owned by Chinese then the increase in blocksize will never had problem in getting the percentage it wanted for hardforking bitcoin.  But it seems it isn't controlled by chinese.

If there is any one country that have grip over bitcoin its the Chinese what we have witnessed recently is just a situation where bitcoin is get out of grip of the Chinese but that's the part of the pump and dump or several news that will either make or mar the price of bitcoin at any point in time. Aside that, the majority of the mining farms are in China even if not owned by the Chinese, you are still bound by the rules and regulations of the Chinese people which means they can still make anything possible.

Majority of mining farms are located in China... that is a fact. My original concern was that with majority control the Chinese would be able to manipulate the block-chain technology, i.e reverse transactions / deny transactions at their own will. However it appears that is only the case for Ethereum. In regards to Bitcoin and the Chinese, whilst majority of all Bitcoin being mined comes out of China, not all of the mining groups are working together - so they may as well be spread out around the world, it makes no difference.

Based on the past news, i think yes. Chinese really control the majority of the mining farms and most of the mining farms and the early investors are from china so there is no doubt that they can control not only the share of mining farms but also the supply of bitcoin because they have a lot of bitcoins there that can play the market and dictate their price with the help of their supply.

Yes, the majority of mining farms are located in china due to low electricity cost and other factors and they can be hold by the foreigners. But i still think China has control over them and they are not allowed to operate like a free zone in Dubai etc. For the past one and a half year, china has really emerged  as a bitcoin greatest market with highest number of bitcoin farms.

Have you heard of bitmain it is one of the largest bitcoin mining farm in the world and it is owned by the Chinese. Though there are other mining farms that are not owned by the Chinese and was only set-up in that country due to cheap electricity and cheap manpower cost. But reagrdless of it being owned by Chinese or by foreign entities we cannot deny the fact that it is located withing the political boundaries of China and can be regulated by the Government of China. If the Chinese government will make a strict policy on the release of bitcoins into the market then that is the time when they will gain control.

The moment the government of China will make a move to control bitcoin as in restricting transactions or blocking transfers from certain addresses...nothing will happen.
Other miners will pick those transactions and nothing will happen.

What can they do?
Force double spending? Killing a business that bring money inside China?

Trying to control it won't work trying to kill it is hilarious so...in the end.
Nobody gives a damn about China.

Yes, I agree the creation of the bitcoin is in such a way that the miner can’t go a wrong way and if someone tries it to make certain type of dishonesty and corruption they will get suffered from it. I don’t think that any of the miner farms will do something wrong because the reputation of farm will get highly damage with it.

I think bitcoin in china is a very big farm which is a big mining, but not with control they can easily get its bitcoin.

I hope that china does not succeed in this plan. We all like bitcoins because of its decentralize property. If somehow china take control of bitcoin and make it central, it will be bad for china itself as people will leave the bitcoin make the price of bitcoin to be worthless.
However, china do own most of the mining farms due to low electricity cost but i hope they dont take bitcoin in the wrong direction.

I don't think so. It is true that Chinese controls the biggest mining sections in the world, they do have the major mining power but the idea "Bitcoin can not be reversed" is always true. It's not because Chinese will do everything to reverse it as they can do, no, It's reversed because you paid a very little fee for your transaction  so that EVERY miner all over the world refuses to confirm your transaction, before your transaction is confirmed so that it's reversed.

This is something amazing I heard from you how does the mining share can be controlled? I really didn’t get what really you mean by it. I guess this is not easy for someone to take the control of the Bitcoin and make the supply of the Bitcoin by their own will and how they do want to. Sorry to say but I don’t really believe this phenomenon.

If all the chinese miners will be united and make a plan for their own desire as a whole then they can really control the majority of the share of mining farm and also the part of the market because they have got the most percentage of the miners so they are getting a lot of bitcoins per day which they can use to manipulate the price of bitcoin in the market and take control of it but it seems very impossible as of now because they are not united.

Don't worry..he's just a sig spammer who doesn't even have a clue how bitcoin works.
He's just posting crap to get payed and be gone.
You won;t get a reply from him.

The dude things that mining bitcoins is like mining coal.
You add an extra truck you get more bitcoins.
Also you can close the mine ))))).