Bitcoin Forum

After writing the HOWTO on 100% security (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17240.0), a lot of you requested I do the same thing in a more comprehensible way, or that I provide a solution for absolute beginners.

So here's the deal: I have to know if you are serious enough, and if this is worth the trouble. Because if I do this, I'll do it properly, i.e I will test everything I write, there will be an easy guide for Linux, Mac and Windows and I will probably make a one-click solution, which will consist of a specific LiveCD, which already has bitcoin installed, and which will allow you to boot up a secure system and make transactions, without _any_ configuration necessary.

I did personalized LinuxCDs before, so this will definitely do-able. The result will be a solution for people with zero computer knowledge.

However, since this will take time and effort and since anybody can just click yes on the above poll, I'm asking for donations if you are _really_ serious about having an all-in-one solution. You don't have to send me anything at all, it's up to you.

Here's my hat: 16VD78R8nxqJGesE7E9KS6A8TikQQpKNm5

If you happen to find this proposal insulting (which is, that I don't want to spend a week making something that nobody uses), feel free to insult me in the comments below.

I have been "into" Bitcoin for a bit (lulz) however I have not obtained any Bitcoin (I don't want to put my number in my sig and ask for donations, I do not want to believe that will work based on just the number in the signature.. but whatever).   Point is, if I had something, I would throw it your way in support of this.  People better hope that you finish this out and/or it inspires someone to create one as well. Thanks.

I was thinking more of a thinapp solution for windows.  Application isolation pretty much takes care of any trojan problems as anything outside the container can't see inside.  Not sure of the licensing implications though.

Would you be open to using the Gitian (https://gitian.org/ (https://gitian.org/)) build method for the live CD?  It would allow users to validate the distribution by having it built and signed by multiple developers.  I can help with this.

The donation I'll be sending is pretty pathetic, but it's all I've got right now or I'd send more, sorry. :(

Anyway yeah, please do, it'd be really appreciated. If you were to choose a Linux Distro I'd recommend BackTrack, as it's a distro designed spesifically for penetration testing, and therefore, security.

Yes, I would be open to it. I didn't know about gitian, but I'm looking into it as we speak. If you want to help, my email is aiwk171@gmail.com, though I'm busy until Tuesday, so my apologies if my replies won't be as swift as they should be.


Don't apologize, you have my thanks. And as they say, if 50 people contribute just a little, you still get a lot of stuff done by the end of the day.

I have to check how well BackTrack does hardware detection, since usability is more important than penetration resistance. It won't be meant as a day-to-day OS. I'll clarify when I have the time. Thanks to everybody so far.

Well, that's the best part. The latest version of BackTrack, BT5, is based on Ubuntu 10.04, and so hardware detection and usability shouldn't be a problem. :)

Well, BackTrack it (probably) is then, since my first choice was Ubuntu anyway. This is nice, since it might save some hassle with the encryption tools.

Not sure what the need for a livecd is.. can't the client just encrypt your wallet?

Don't think client encryption would be enough though - there will always be a hole in the encryption somewhere.

Sigh, so I'll repeat myself: encryption won't do shit, since the file has to be stored decrypted in RAM in order to be actively used. So only a sterile system will guarantee safe interactions with your client.

+1

After my righ pays off, buying a small crappy netbook just for the client, plus wallet stored on other locations too.

Count me in. I'm sending over a donation now. For what it's worth I'm using a Macbook Air with no CD drive so I'm not sure if this can help me. The more "dummy proof" we can make it the more people will adopt bitcoin and help us build a stronger market. Thanks!

Wow, got your donation, didn't expect as much. Thanks!

It will be bootable from a USB-stick, in the meantime just make sure you don't install anything you don't trust. And you might want to use flashblock in your browser if you don't already.

I would like the reference bitcoin client to strongly encrypt its wallet.dat file and make me enter a password to use the client application.  I would like computers and mobile devices hosting bitcoin clients to be compliant with Trusted Computing so that I do not have to worry about malware and keyloggers.

Donation sent.  This would do a world of good, spreading BTC.  Security worries are the #1 concern and most everyday currency users -- think about it, that is the target demographic! -- are not comfortable with current procedures.

Received, thanks a lot for the big sum! I'm happy to see this gaining a little momentum


So would I, but that's fairyland at the moment. Well, OSX and Linux are trustworthy enough if you take a little care.

Sir, you should start a little Youtipit page for this project.   That way you have a little landing page without having to create a full site just yet, and something to put in your sig that would have a little graphic or something.   I did one for my site ( http://www.youtipit.org/t/J3470 ), but here is an example of one that might be more toward what you are going for ( http://www.youtipit.org/t/J2960 )

Your project actually fits the whole site/theme/usage of Youtipit and Bitcoin that I think could benefit yourself and the program.

Glad to see this progress in a positive way, I never get any donations because I love boobs lol

You should actually do this and sell it as a product.  No doubt several people would be willing to pay for this, and it would help the community a great deal.

I had this idea as well. We'll see, I'd prefer to release everything for free though. Maybe I'll sell preconfigured USBsticks.

Ridiculously small tip sent... more to come as it is acquired. I am great with computers, but linux confuses the isht out of me. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

It's not ridiculously small. I appreciate it!

Just use OpenBSD 2 remote holes in default installation in about 10 years.... but 'stupid user'  > OpenBSD 

I really wish i can send something but i am a newbie. thats why i am stuck in this section. Ubuntu is great!. Hopefully when you have one pre-configured livecd, we can even setup openvz templates or kvm ISO to move forward.

=P i am an ubuntu lover, havent seen anything that works on Ubuntu GUI for Bitcoin. Or did i not search enough.

I made a really easy to follow tutorial on how to make a secure savings wallet in Ubuntu. Very step by step and newbie friendly.

http://startbitcoin.com/how-to-create-a-secure-bitcoin-wallet/

I bet using my script BOTG at: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=23081.0
You could probably get an Live CD that's only about 20 MB to download! Just remove everything but bash,openssl,etc. I tried with tiny core linux but was having problems with their ash interpreting the script. Just burn, reboot, write down stuff, turn off computer. Any savings can then be sent to the address. Fool proof and very secure. It just needs to be tested to see if it works! LOL.

it could become a nice open source project.

Security and the ability to open different wallets.

It seems to me that wallet security and ease of backups, etc., is the number one thing that bitcoin needs right now to help with mass market adoption. Keep up the good work!

I'm interested in this. Specifically I'm interested in a best-practice, dummy proof, explanation of how how securely self-manage savings and 'day-to-day' wallet(s) using macs. I'd be willing to test any instructions and give feedback on clarity, ambiguity, questions etc.

Donating a small amount now.

I'm working on a similar implementation, but with some advantages over the livecd metod. I'm one of the mantainer of a  small distro build from scratch (openmamba). This distro as a quite unique peculiarity with liveusb media. Instead of installing the files on the usb stick you've to put some file for the boot and the ISO on it. So you've the advantage of only a medium (you can put your wallet on a separate partition, or in a file encrypted) and on the other side you're sure that your distro is secure.

I'll send something to you as soon as I have more than the .001 from the faucet.

would absolutely LOVE you if you could make a dummy proof system. spent like 2 hours in the Ubuntu thread and i'm still lost =[

Once I start making some more coins, I'l gladly send you a nice tip. Thanks!

aiwk171:

Have you made any progress on your decision to help with a LiveCD?

Everyone:

Get those donations flowing. The poll shows this is wanted. Put your money where your mouth is.

Is this still in the works?

i think the download should be free and you can sell physical versions for a small profit.

i want to be able to recommend bitcoin to a friend (while at their house), then go and download it for them instantly, put it on a stick, and hand it to them saying "here is your new wallet". [edit] and now that i am reading the original post about creating a 100% secure wallet, i would also expect that there is some auto encryption software on that too (auto encrypt on big savings wallet, and leave the small portable wallet untouched)[/edit]

can it be on CD? if so, where is the wallet stored? is that why you only mentioned USB sticks? is there a way to protect the stick so they don't delete their wallet? maybe it could automatically repartition the stick for them if they want to be able to use the stick for other things too (actually this is making it too complicated and dangerous - they would still start deleting files off the wrong partition one day in error).

actually i might donate also. warning: my idea of unbelievably small is probably even smaller than everybody elses!
i guess i will give it 24 hours before i decide as i have only spent 1 evening reading about the bitcoin concept, and today i am looking at ways of how to purchase bitcoins (which is why i joined this forum in order to ask a newb question)

Is there really a demand for this?

Well, secure wallets -- or at least secure wallet backups -- could be a prized possession for people who deal in large enough sums. It's certainly been a problem for the Exchanges.  :-\

Someone beat you to it a while ago. LinuxCoin can be used for mining easily, but it also makes it easy to encrypt your wallet and comes with some scripts for being off-the-grid as well.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/LinuxCoin

OP: I'm definitely thankful you're considering putting this together.  I literally just learned about bitcoin a couple of hours ago, and since then I have been doing a lot of reading, reading, reading, getting puzzled, browsing different noobs link, etc.

I clicked "yes" on your poll, because even though I am confident that I can figure this all out, I know I won't ever use it confidently, and in turn I won't be willing to be nearly as involved/supportive of bitcoin as I would be if I had an easy solution for OS X or Ubuntu.
use different

It's like Android.  I can mess around with my phone, use different ROMS, try out different themes/apps/kernels/radios/etc, because people have put together (occasionally hard for me to follow to) guides and such that I can follow along with, but I never really know what's going on, and as a result, I'm too hesitant to try doing certain things that aren't as noob friendly, and I don't mod my phone as much or as often as I'd like to, because the work and frustration involved often outweigh the benefit. 

Good luck, and thanks!...  I'd donate to your wallet but I do not yet have any bitcoins, and I don't even think I have a wallet (I have a program running that has a big empty window and a super long number - if that's a wallet then I guess I have one?).

this should be moved to the security subforum... oh yeah thats right we dont have one.  >:(

Haha...

Anyways, this sounds like a sweet idea.

No matter what solutions exist there will always be one dumb person who will lose their bitcoin because of they trust too much.

Would this also be available in the form of a USB drive?

Probably not worth the trouble. Most people who are interested in Bitcoin do have the know how on how to secure their wallet, or at least they're able to follow your tutorial (which is very nice btw).

Even if there are 5-10 people interested in your project, there will just not be enough people using it in the end to justify your efforts.

I think there are plenty of people who could use a tutorial.  Requiring everyone that uses bitcoin to be a security expert is foolish.

As far as secure storage goes, BitSafe is pretty simple https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46916.0

Yes please.

It's so bewildering. I'm waiting for my first free 0.0000000000000001 BTC to appear in my account and reading about security and I understand now why we all trust banks who "guarantee" our money. :P

Id use this if it were made and recommend it to someone who is new to Bitcoins.

It would seem OP lost interest in these forums?  Strange no one else picked this idea up.

I certainly would not use a custom distro. Not worth the risk

Open Source ring a bell?

I certainly would use this if it were to be made  ;D

Very interested in a Easy & Secure wallet & back up system.

I am so fresh & new I can't flip you any coins yet, but I will keep prodding my miner to hurry up :)


Rat.

Would like to see this on either a USB stick or separate partition.

Thank you so much for offering this to us.  I'm a newbie and I am so confused.  I want anonymity in my transactions.  Will this help in any way?

Every guide i am coming across seems to just give a bit of information but a full overview with each part mapped out in detail. If you could do this then I would be eternally grateful.

Not really unless you're concerned about your computer being monitored/infected and someone knowing that your wallet is attached to you. This is to make sure that your money is safe from being stolen if your computer is compromised.

This would kind of defeat the purpose since your computer could access the partition and an attacker could infect it that way. Same goes with a flash drive, the distro would be editable and could be infected. The only way to be 100% secure would be to boot it on a machine that will never touch the internet from that point on. Even if you're booting from a live CD the files you download could be infected and mount your main system disk in the background and relay information once you boot back into your normal OS. A bit paranoid, but 100% secure should really mean 100% secure.

cant you just use truecrypt?

with changing times and changing dimensions of money virtual currency will be the future and with growing popularity these currency has raised concerns with the privacy as well security of the user/acct. holder.
more and more tighter security is required with changing time. or else it will also fall the fate of centralised currency and this will be more brutal .