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Bitcoin => Project Development => Topic started by: glitch003 on May 04, 2013, 12:34:52 AM



Title: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: glitch003 on May 04, 2013, 12:34:52 AM
Announcing Piper, a hardware based bitcoin paper wallet generator and printer.  

Learn about Piper and see a prototype in action here: http://youtu.be/XZ2myql_i8w (http://youtu.be/XZ2myql_i8w)

Piper is composed of a tiny linux-based computer, a small printer, and a single button.  Pressing the button causes the computer to generate a public/private key pair, and then print the keypair along with QR codes.

Piper also has an HDMI port and a USB port, so you can hook it up to a TV/Monitor and Mouse and Keyboard and customize your prints, or just hack Piper to do whatever you want.  You can even hook up your own printer to the USB port and print using it.

Piper has no internet connectivity, so your bitcoins are guaranteed to be safe.  No more hassling with LiveCDs.  Just boot up Piper and you're ready to go.

Piper will be shipping in June for $120 or http://fizzisist.com/priceimg/img/120 (BTC value may change and will be based on whatever $120 is worth when we send out the invoices)

If you want to buy Piper, you can preorder on the http://www.piperwallet.com (http://www.piperwallet.com) site (pay later).

You can get more info here on the FAQ page: http://www.piperwallet.com (http://www.piperwallet.com)

Thanks everyone, and feedback appreciated!

Edit: Added slightly better video


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: cbeast on May 04, 2013, 12:41:17 AM
It doesn't really bother me that it looks like a thermal printer in a cardboard box. You didn't demonstrate any of the other functionality. So, I'm not sure if this is serious.


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: glitch003 on May 04, 2013, 12:47:13 AM
It doesn't really bother me that it looks like a thermal printer in a cardboard box. You didn't demonstrate any of the other functionality. So, I'm not sure if this is serious.

As of right now, when you boot it up and it's hooked up to a monitor, bitaddress.org is loaded locally and pops up.  

It's just a standard linux distribution, any more advanced functionality is up to the end user.  The idea is that people would hack it and do whatever they want to do with it.


I'm open to suggestions on what else the software should have.  I was thinking a basic GUI program that takes any image as input and prints it on the printer.

I will make a demo video of it hooked up to a tv/mouse/keyboard so you can see.



Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: Stephen Gornick on May 04, 2013, 02:21:23 AM

From a prior post inquiring about creating this exact type of device:

Thermal resin (uses paper + ribbon) will last "forever".  The resin will likely last longer than the paper.
Thermal (uses only chemically treated paper with no ribbon) will be unreadable in a matter of months (days if exposed to higher temps).

Some printers can do both, some can only do one or the other.

So from your FAQ you show:

Quote
Currently, the image will last 3 years but we are in the process of acquiring bulk-quantites of specially coated, archive-quality paper to use with it which will last over 20 years.

What type of printer will you use?

I'm open to suggestions on what else the software should have.

Can this be powered from a USB port (i.e., made to be portable), or will it require power from an outlet?

Also, I'ld like the ability to print two (or more) copies.   

Additionally I'ld also like to see a time and date on the printout, or maybe just some type of sequential number (so I could easily navigate through a stack of these to  pull a specific one.)



Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: saddambitcoin on May 04, 2013, 02:40:04 AM
i'll buy. 


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: glitch003 on May 04, 2013, 03:40:20 AM

From a prior post inquiring about creating this exact type of device:

Thermal resin (uses paper + ribbon) will last "forever".  The resin will likely last longer than the paper.
Thermal (uses only chemically treated paper with no ribbon) will be unreadable in a matter of months (days if exposed to higher temps).

Some printers can do both, some can only do one or the other.

So from your FAQ you show:

Quote
Currently, the image will last 3 years but we are in the process of acquiring bulk-quantites of specially coated, archive-quality paper to use with it which will last over 20 years.


First of all, thanks for the feedback!  I wasn't aware of that post, if I had seen it I would've been more clear about the life of the image.

Anyway, I was also concerned about the life of the image.  I made sure to buy "long life" thermal paper, but "long life" wasn't really specific enough for me so I emailed the distributer where I bought the paper about image life, and this is what they said: "Stored under the proper conditions (In a cool, dry environment with no exposure to light) the product will last generally 3 years or more."  

I'm looking into buying a better type of paper though, which will last 20 years.  Here's an image of the manufacturer's spec sheet: http://piperwallet.com/newpaper.png (http://piperwallet.com/newpaper.png)



What type of printer will you use?

It's a direct thermal printer (not thermal transfer), but the paper we're using (even the 3 year life one that we currently have) is long life thermal.  The new stuff we're looking at is archival quality.  Think airline tickets.

I'm open to suggestions on what else the software should have.

Can this be powered from a USB port (i.e., made to be portable), or will it require power from an outlet?


Due to the power requirements of the printer, it can't be powered from a standard USB port (500mA) although it may work from a high power 1Amp USB port.  


Also, I'ld like the ability to print two (or more) copies.  


This is a great idea, Thank you!  I will try to make it so that when you press the button multiple times in succession it will queue up multiple copies to print.


Additionally I'ld also like to see a time and date on the printout, or maybe just some type of sequential number (so I could easily navigate through a stack of these to  pull a specific one.)


That's a great idea, but the Linux computer that powers the device does not have a battery to keep track of the time across reboots.  I think this may be a good feature for the GUI though, where it will force the user to set the time and date if they want a timestamp on the paper wallet.

I will definitely try to add the sequential number as well, thanks for the tip!


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: Bitcoin Oz on May 04, 2013, 04:22:57 AM
You should stick this on kickstarter  :P


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: TiagoTiago on May 04, 2013, 04:24:51 AM
You should stick this on kickstarter  :P
Wasn't there a Bitcoin based kickstarter thing? Is it still alive? And is it trustworthy?


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: coinfunder on May 04, 2013, 04:54:42 AM
Cool project!  CoinFunder.com is still alive and kicking. Growing every day!


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: TiagoTiago on May 04, 2013, 05:01:53 AM
Cool project!  CoinFunder.com is still alive and kicking. Growing every day!
Was it called BitStarter before or is that another one?


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: coinfunder on May 04, 2013, 04:04:11 PM
BitcoinStarter.com is still very much active as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: glitch003 on May 06, 2013, 12:01:06 AM
I added a few new features to Piper and posted a new video: http://youtu.be/XZ2myql_i8w (http://youtu.be/XZ2myql_i8w) 

First, I added a serial number to every paper wallet that is printed.  

Second, I added the ability to print two identical paper wallets by holding down the button until the printer starts printing.  Here's a demo video of that functionality: http://youtu.be/aYqY19l5cow (http://youtu.be/aYqY19l5cow)


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: Anenome5 on May 06, 2013, 05:35:01 PM
So do we all trust the RNG seed used by Bitaddress.org enough to consider this a good solution? I applaud you for making it, it's quite needed, but want to make sure it's up to snuff before I buy one. It's likely you already have my bitcoin you just don't know it yet :P


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: TiagoTiago on May 06, 2013, 06:16:14 PM
How about including a cheap camera inside the case, as a physical source of randomness, using somthing like LavaRnd (http://lavarnd.org/faq/index.html) to interface with it?


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: stevep on May 06, 2013, 08:39:56 PM
Nice to see some more activity in the paper wallet area.

Here's my prototype for a wallet printer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7y_emuo68g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7y_emuo68g)

I'm afraid I didn't have any wood effect paper to wrap it in :)

I agree with the concerns about thermal printing so I'm currently experimenting with the epson m-190 printer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWz-9c-KAus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWz-9c-KAus)

Its dot matrix so I have a good feeling about the longevity of its print outs.

In my opinion $120 seems a bit steep. I'm aiming for $50 for a small run of 100.

I look forward to seeing this develop.


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: glitch003 on May 07, 2013, 12:13:36 AM
So do we all trust the RNG seed used by Bitaddress.org enough to consider this a good solution? I applaud you for making it, it's quite needed, but want to make sure it's up to snuff before I buy one. It's likely you already have my bitcoin you just don't know it yet :P

Thanks for the kind words :)

Right now it uses vanitygen for the paper wallets.  Vanitygen is considered pretty safe, but I plan to add unique entropy to /dev/random from random.org which gets its entropy from atmospheric noise, so that every Piper unit is unique.  Don't worry though, I will not release Piper unless the bitcoin community is satisfied with the key generation algorithm/seeding process.

Here's some more info on how vanitygen generates it's keys, from the thread here on bitcointalk:
How secure are the addresses generated by this program?  Will someone be able to guess the private key and steal my BTC?

Vanitygen uses the OpenSSL random number generator.  This is the same RNG used by bitcoin and a good number of HTTPS servers.  It is regarded as well-scrutinized.  On Linux, the RNG will be seeded from /dev/urandom.  Guessing the private key of an address found by vanitygen will be no easier than guessing a private key created by bitcoin itself.  Nonetheless, if you feel the default RNG is unable to provide numbers that are sufficiently difficult to guess, vanitygen can be directed to seed the RNG from an external file using the -s option.

To speed up address generation, vanitygen uses the RNG to choose a private key, and literally increments the private key in a loop searching for a match.  As long as the starting point is not disclosed, if a match is found, the private key will not be any easier to guess than if every private key tested were taken from the RNG.  Vanitygen will also reload the private key from the RNG after 10,000,000 unsuccessful searches (100M for oclvanitygen), or when a match is found and multiple patterns are being searched for.


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: Anenome5 on May 07, 2013, 01:39:09 AM
Cool, what's your final housing expected to be made out of?


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: crazy_rabbit on May 14, 2013, 06:46:14 AM
I'm watching this closely. I think it would be a great idea for restaurants to print out receipts where users can send the bitcoin to the address on the paper. It's not important that it lasts forever, it would be enough to give the bill to the client, leave it at their table, and they can pay it and wait for 1st confirm while they finish up their meal. Obviously, you would print only the public key and save the private key. :-)


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: Mitchell on May 14, 2013, 08:59:21 AM
I have seen better ones for less. So a no from me.


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: cbeast on May 14, 2013, 10:37:23 AM
I have seen better ones for less. So a no from me.
Cool. Do you have a link?


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: Mitchell on May 14, 2013, 01:28:06 PM
I have seen better ones for less. So a no from me.
Cool. Do you have a link?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202133


Title: Re: [ANN] Piper - A hardware-based paper wallet printer and so much more
Post by: cbeast on May 14, 2013, 04:05:47 PM
I have seen better ones for less. So a no from me.
Cool. Do you have a link?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=202133
These look like they have somewhat different functionality other than the printing part. The extra features of the Piper may be worth the difference. Actually, I can think of ways to improve the Piper since it is customizable.