Bitcoin Forum

Over the duration of the week, I sold something, and initiated the transfer to my bank from paypal.

It said "ETA 1 Business Day"" And here we are on day 3.

So I guess, even with the consistently congested block-chain, Bitcoin beats Paypal all day.

Any TX with a proper fee will be "Fully cleared" within an hour or two.

At least you can view your transactions progress with a block explorer with BTC.


Fuck you paypal gimmie my money.

No, it's not. PayPal's transactions are faster (and sometimes cheaper) currently. Withdrawal to a bank doesn't count, because they are very unrelated to Bitcoin's transactions.
Also your Bitcoin transaction doesn't have many stages, it's either confirmed or it's not. Similarly with PayPal, your money are sent/deposited or they're not.

The money is not really deposited until the chargeback period is over, I think of 180 days.  So in up to 6 months you can wake and your balance disappeared because of chargeback ???

Surely, and even if it is deposited or spent they can still charge your credit/debit card for a chargeback.
I do not support/endorse PayPal over Bitcoin in any shape or form, just stating the fact that Bitcoin at it's state is more expensive and slower than PayPal.

lol

comparing paypals exit terms to bitcoins internal use is silly.

i can send funds to someone else IN paypal in seconds.
i can send funds to someone else IN bitcoin in 10mins-3days.

i can request a fiat withdrawal from paypal to bank. 3-5 business days
i can request a fiat withdrawal from bitcoin to bank. 3-5 business days

if you are going to do a fair comparison... then make sure the comparison is accurate
Eg dont use internal use vs external use

Bitcoin is still faster than paypal? of course it is bitcoin is the most valuable coin in the cryptocurrency right now paypal is just a wallet that uses as a mode of payment unlike bitcoins,,, bitcoin itself can double or increase it's value. ,,, bitcoin is still faster than paypal :)

I agree on what have been posted above. paypal is still faster when we do exclude bank transfers it will really consume time but coming to fees i will vote for bitcoin even the fees are soaring high but still better than paypal.Chargebacks is only the thing that i really hate about paypal.

Paypal does have a much better speed than bitcoin, in using paypal we do not have to wait for confirmation. Because of direct delivery to each paypal account. If bitcoin can cope about delivery time maybe one time bitcoin will have speed equal to paypal. So everything can change according to the state of the system at that time.

Bitcoin has a fixed fee, while PayPal charges a % for every transaction. For bigger values surely Bitcoin will be cheaper

If you're using a credit card linked to the paypal or you are using your paypal funds, then paypal beats bitcoins in most cases. Unless both you and the payment processor is using bitgo, then paypal wins in speed in those situations.

Though, paypal still sucks, IMHO.

Bitcoin beats paypal in terms of services even it increases in fees since its transaction fees were lower than paypal such its faster and reliable.

If you want to compare it, compare the transition speed, not withdrawal to cash because that's depends in the exchange. It took me less than 5 min to send money with paypal, but more than 1 hour with bitcoin.

I'll be more excited when bitcoin is running at 20 tx/sec or higher at a fee of 25 cents per transaction or less, with zero unconfirmed transactions in the backlog, with the big mining giants no longer running the show. I know they never will, but they should consider a proof of stake component to the coin with 1 minute block times.

Getting 3 confirmations takes 30+ minutes in many cases.  Don't want Ethereum to take the throne? Get it done.

That, and a centralized entity have a say over your transaction. They decide if they want to process the tx or reverse it. Have you read their ToS?

Centralized payment methods like PayPal and credit cards cannot give you full control over your transactions and your information and consumer

information are their property to do what they want to. { marketing or sharing it with government agencies }  ::)

False comparison. If you transfer funds from your PayPal balance to another PayPal account, the transaction will show up instantly ~ nothing can beat in-system transfers.

The only negative point in this case is that it will take a huge number of days before PayPal transactions settle in the way that it is impossible for the other party to charge back on you.

Bitcoin in this case has the advantage, because after the first confirmation, the funds are really yours. No one can take them away from you.

I agree with your statement its absolutely true , Users will be deciding on which payment method will they get from these two choices , But for me I am sticking on bitcoin since bitcoin is my most favorite than paypal, In paypal you are ask to surrender your identity by submitting some id's and adding your personal bank account . In bitcoin you dont have to surrender your identity to use the bitcoin.

He also took one specific example of paypal and compared it to the average in bitcoin instead of taking averages against averages.

Well if you pay enough fee for bitcoin transactions it will be confirmed fastly perhaps faster than Paypal. But if you just choose to pay a customed fee not enough for the transaction, you should most likely wait long time to your transaction to get confirmed .

Paypal is the worst wallet which I ever had.They have dumbest support which I saw in some wallets in the history.If you want delete account it is so hard to do with paypal or if you want to change from business to personal account.

As much as love bitcoin, PayPal is way faster.  Those of you who are saying it's not are trying to move the goalposts to win your argument.   Paypal gets received and I can spend it immediately.   It may take a day to get into my bank account,  but that's only if I decide to do that.   It's a good thing PayPal isn't DIGITAL GOLD, else we wouldn't need bitcoin at all.

PayPal's is instant in a way but the actual confirmation time is 180 Days, The same for BTC as the TX is instant but you need 3 days if you use ridiculously small fees, PayPal and BTC aren't comparable in ease of use at all IMO as PayPal always causes issues, limitations, restriction and huge fees as well (of a % as well as a set fee).

Ok yes. In-system transfers with paypal are faster than BTC.

But when it comes to getting funds from BTC, or Paypal, from a sale, into a bank account via ACH, BTC exchanges seem to do it faster.

That's right, I use paypal and ussually get 180 days blocked, very hate it if you is a paypal seller as me, I like use Bitcoin because it very fast and not hold or block your money, only need spend a small fee for miner and get confirm fast

Bitcoin should be faster! The tech is certainly faster.

Well that can just come down to a matter of principle though, Paypal is supposed to be a company that just facilitates transactions among different people and isn't really supposed to interact with banks much unless they're working with a business customer. There is a relatively decent different in how they would handle both account types, and with good reason.

For me paypal is Bank 2.0 by which I meant putting money in paypal is like getting my money more regulated.
Bitcoin is meant for free birds. No one could dare to regulate your bitcoins unless you use represented web wallets.
So btc is better than Paypal in many sense.

I didnt understand your method, i can sell my bitcoins into 10 minutes and have the money in my bank, doing local trades. Paypal does transfer any balance instant, there isnt confirmation delays, the only risk is the chargeback. Paypal were always the top platafform to any merchant/online costumer, bitcoin is something that still growing slowly over the market.

I will have to disagree with you on that. If PayPal will be delaying your money up to three days, I am sure there will be enough valid rewsonf for that to happen and if it eventually happened I am not sure how posting on the thread will make that any faster rather than contacting support in understanding the reason why such is happening in the first place but same cannot be done in the case of bitcoin even if its to a wrong address.

Bitcoin is NOT faster than PayPal right now, not at all. Even ethereum's recent pump seems to me like it is due to its faster confirmations.

i don't think so. bitcoin takes around 2 hours or maybe 1 but there are some situations where paypal can be instant, and bitcoin will go worse during the course of time. its not like we will always play minecraft so its not hard to notice what bitcoin offered some years ago and what it has become right now.

Right now people are complaining about the really high fee Bitcoin requires for it receive a fast confirmation. Even with a high fee the transaction might not get confirmed as fast as people think it will since there were times back then when people used a high fee with a Bitcoin transaction and their transaction was stuck for a few hours instead if it being confirmed within the hour.

YoBit stated that they are increasing their withdrawal fee to pay for faster transactions, they are usually fast when the withdrawal request gets approved.

That sounds fair. Even bitcoin's slowest version with busy blockchain network could work faster than paypal.

This statement of yours cant force to say that bitcoin tranactions is faster than paypal is,in your situation bamk transaction is included so it will really take time to get finished 2 days is a minimum for any bank transactions

nah.. paypal is still faster in terms of transferring funds to another wallet, its instant. If you want to pay to a merchant to buy a product, you can also send instantly. Transferring to a bank is just an option.

Paypal withdrawals usually will take a long long time. However right now if you don't pay the correct fee then you are basically risking your transaction not being confirmed for months, so it's basically a tie here. Bitcoin is fast when you pay the right fee but a pain in the ass when you don't.

The thing about paypal isn't even how fast or how slow it is. The main thing that separates bitcoin andp aypal is that with bitcoin, nobody controls your money. You are trusting paypal to take care of your money if you use their service which evidently they do not do very well. They may go bankrupt and you're not covered by deposit insurance as paypal is not a bank.

It's not really a valild comparison because you are comparing withdrawal times with sending time of bitcoin. If you send paypal funds then it is usually instant as well. Bitcoin on the other hand will take you around 10 minutes before the funds "clear" or get a confirmation on the blockchain. It's really not an issue for most bitcoiners though. The biggest difference with paypal and bitcoin is that you can't chargeback with bitcoin. With paypal, charging back is a huge issue. They usually side with the sender as well.

Really? What happen to you OP? Did you experienced charge back ?
Because I agree with you because bitcoin is really fast than paypal but then you have to pay fee a higher fee for you to get your money fast but in paypal you can have transaction with lower fee but then the challenge there is the chargeback to the sender which is so bad in part of the receiver especially if the account is just holding the money then the chance of getting the money back is high.
We hope this paypal issue will be consider by the management as big bad view in their company. We hope that they can make their action.

I think the transaction between Blockchain - Blockchain is much more like transaction between Paypal account - Paypal account then Bank - Paypal account?

I can agree with you, bitcoin is by far faster than paypal because if you send bitcoin to a card in will take max an hour to use them as cash, and paypal will need 1-2 business days. The time of confirmations for the transaction is another issue, and it's happening for the security of the money.

Wait what. It takes 1 business day because of your bank, not PayPal. Try transferring money from one PayPal account to another. It goes instantly, with no fees. We all know bank transfers are slow and may take 1 or 2 business days because of reasons I don't know.

This is not even taking into account the fact that paypal does 21 day holds all the time, and when a dispute is filed against you your account blaance can actually go into the negatives which is pretty scary just hearing stories of it from other paypal users.

It should be clear to anyone that is currently planning on using paypal/uses paypal already or in the past that bitcoin is vastly superior to paypal, especially if you are a seller. Even though you might be paying higher transaction fees right now you are still buying yourself an independent currency that you can send without additional conversion fees, and you're also using something that is 100% irreversible. As opposed to cough cough paypal.


What about the holds that paypal has, frozen accounts and all that jack? Any explanation for that?

I paid a 6$ fee for a transaction today with bitcoin and I still think is much better than paypal. Paypal is just another form of a bank, where you don't have control over your own money. with bitcoin it's yours.

bitcoin being our own bank and payment partner will always be the best even theres delay we can still guarantee that the transaction will completed

If I have to pay 10$ in a bitcoin transation or pay the 2$ of the paypal, i will pay the 10, because if i pay in bitcoins i trust the receiver get the money, and with paypal ? i send the transation, and i need to wait to confirm the transation by a third part and i still can have my account closed in any moment without explanation.

bitcoin consequence today is the higher shipping costs due to frequent delays in delivery when using a small fee. But if compared to paypal then I still choose bitcoin as a multifunctional payment tool.

Maybe it's faster when it comes to retreiving the payment but unfortunately bitcoin transactions after some issues with fees and speed have become slower than they should be. Still I think that bitcoins and PayPal can't be compared because they are not the same category.
And fees are in favour of PayPal that is something that should be settled in bitcoin favour.

That's actually because of scaling problem, and every digital currency which uses blockchain will face it eventually when there are too many people making a transaction at the same time, the miners only decide to include transactions which have rather "top" fees and leave the rest. Thus, the average recommendation fee will be increasing significantly. Especially now, when people have no patience of waiting and just throwing their money into the miner's fee. Good for the miner but not for the ordinary user.

Paypal is slow but they can guarantee that your money does not disappear so that you don't need to worry about lossing your money

No it's not. PayPal transactions are instant. The only delay is caused by the transfer from PayPal to bank, whereas I'm sure PayPal doesn't have control over. Paypal transactions are cheaper too when transferring low amounts.

I think Bitcoin transaction is between users to users but Bank to Paypal needs confirmation between Bank and Paypal provider so that it may take longer

But there still the problem with authetication of the transation, in the paypal, if you are the seller and the client pay for a product with paypal, 3 days later he can chargeback the transation and you have to take a long war with paypal proofing you have gived the product.

Honestly I don't like any centralized payment like paypal but i must confess that paypal currently is faster than bitcoin and cheaper specially for small transaction,however paypal actually is not the faster we all know that there is chargeback period so it's kind of like our money is not getting confirmed for 180 days. Well bitcoin still the best for me due to it's decentralized nature, i know we are tired of waiting confirmation, spending higher fee but atleast we can control our money no one can freeze it or locked it, to address those problems i think we should using alternative like doge or litecoin for sending small amount.

There were things that will totally beats paypal in terms of the services they offer and features they have. I guess OP really experienced the fact of chargeback and I think he cannot even get his money back to his account which is really bad in paypal service unlike having bitcoin once it is given it is already given.

Depending on the transaction one is faster than the other. If you are purchasing something (assuming you have your limits removed and no other problems comes out of you paypal), then paypal is the faster one since it is instant and doesn't really require confirmations. If you are a seller though and you receive payments, bitcoins are king. You don't have to wait days and the transaction is irreversible.

not only faster but better, i still have nightmare about paypal closing or blocking your funds for absolute no real reason, or because you didn't sent feedback on the guy on ebay or he claim that the item didn't arrive and bullshit like that

i only use payal to buy stuff not to sell anymore, unless i'm selling very small thing that are almost worthless, no chargeback is another plus of bitcoin, and i use it for this reason

It all depends on whether his paypal account has direct access to credit card or not if yes, then i agree paypal faster than bitcoin but honestly i'm a bit disliked paypal because it can only be used for online shopping.

Yeah bitcoin is still faster than paypal because even though the fee rises a bit, it is still affordable and much better than paypal because paypal is not that affordable to use and there is risk in using it like chargebacks that can be a cause for scamming while in bitcoin there is just peer to peer payment system that makes its system one of the greatest.

Bitcoin's transfer from one another to another sort of slow (on low fees, a little faster on right fees)
Paypal's transfer from one another to another is instant (no fees required)

If this is to base it'll be Paypal. But withdrawals to bank. I think they're same 3-5 working days.

The main reason for paypal problem is they are not supporting the users rights properly, if someone genuinely does transaction and if he got scam of charge back then paypal dont go through genuinely. Paypal ban the user account without prior notice and even dont respond their query.

Unless you're a merchant that is, in which case PayPal will nibble away on your transactions. No such things as a free lunch.

I have had the same terrible experience. They support the activities of scammers and that is awful.
What reallly angers me is reading their terms you will notice... the money they put on hold ... THEY ACTUALLY INVEST IT AND KEEP THE INTEREST!! They say so in the terms of use. Yet they pretend to protect the consumer from fraud and that's the reason they claim to be holding funds.  It gets worse, a portion of paypals market investment includes Bitcoin.  I called them to grill them about their investment allocations because it makes me crazy. I was put through an hour of holding, several "supervisors" and finally I reached a corporate exec who answered "yes" when I asked "are PayPal user funds being held to invest in Bitcoin along with the other investments?".  Crazy!  Crazy because my transaction that was held, they said, was being reviewed because of they are "evaluating the safety of Bitcoin involvement with PayPal".  Unreal !  They buy it with interest from the funds they withhold because of it.  Snakes

they are centralized and bitcoin decentralized, that's why. bitcoin still faster compared to paypal but also with higher fee. everyone now babbling about this matter , and thinking to switch to altcoins like dogecoin or reddcoin where they deduct very small fee in usd value. bitcoin face some serious trouble recently , people would leave bitcoin if this matter let happened.

i think both paypal is faster for sending a transaction than bitcoin because in bitcoin, we need to waiting for the confirmation but in paypal, we don't have to waiting the confirmation. once we click send button, the payment is sending into direction email address, maybe if blockchain network is fixed for the transaction, bitcoin will be faster than paypal.

I understand your frustration with PayPal, but let's be objective. Transaction bitcoin also can not protect you from fraud. Speed of transfer bitcoin also depends on transit fees. I transferred bitcoins for 5 minutes. It's just a different system and cannot be compared. You can use Payza if you do not like PayPal. There is a possibility of payment in bitcoin.

I have never done a transaction using paypal. I feel comfortable trading with bitcoin. Many advise to try paypal they say fast, until now have not tried it. ;)

I both already used the services of those two and all I can say is, I would prefer bitcoins more than paypal because one of the primary reason is that I got my money on bitcoins a bit much faster than the latter. Bitcoins is a less of a much hassle and not that restricted and that is why I can cashout my earnings with ease.

Paypal is just a kind of outdated payment, I'm sure in the end they will disappear or more closer to the crypto transaction. In this case Peter Thiel continues to express appreciation of bitcoin, Paypal has many shortcomings and can not match the bitcoin. The various cases that befell such as on LR is enough to make my interest lost to paypal.

Bank transfers don't really count, although paypal is faster. I gave my friends 300 dollars on Paypal for his birthday and it arrived within 5 minutes. They are different systems and it is hard to compare. The chargeback scam on Paypal is annoying though so I guess if we are comparing bitcoin has that upside.

That's your perspective, but in reality bitcoin recent days has got a very slow in transaction. Only the high fee paid transactions were faster and this will change as development team is working on it. PayPal always provide the stable speed in transaction for which this is preferred much by business people.

I think you messed up things.
If you wanna do a fair comparison, you have to compare transaction from paypal to paypal and from bitcoin to bitcoin. If you send an amount of money to another paypal user such transaction is processed instantly, while if you send Bitcoin to another Bitcoin user it may take 3 days (or it could even never be processed!).

These are two different concepts for comparison, but PayPal makes payments faster than bitcoin. But bitcoin is a currency with which you can earn.

You said you initiated a transfer from PayPal to your bank and you are comparing that to a peer to peer bitcoin wallet transfer? Get your facts straight mate. The last time I checked, sending PayPal to PayPal is as fast as not comparing it to bitcoin to bitcoin transfer with the plenty of long minute confirmations in between bitcoin transfer.

I agree with you mate, The late of bitcoin transactions to confirm is too bad. but if we can put enough fees, our transactions will be quick to be confirmed. Anyways, Paypal is faster than bitcoins when we talk about payments, and bitcoin is more great when we talk about investement, we can earn a lot with it.

I am pretty sure that it doesn't matter if people send or receive payments with Bitcoin, the speed of their transactions are pretty much instant compared to most banking companies. PayPal has a higher chance for money loss since the people in PayPal like to rip their customers off even if they are in the right.

Paypal is the not best good or better than bitcoin according to me. Since the time and cost of the transaction btc is top. Other than that I have heard that paypal has been involved many email scam attempts.
Bitcoin or any blockchain technology does not involved in scam, only people do btc related business only scam us.

Outdated ? Go to visit Paypal Lab and you will be very surprised to see how Paypal is advanced regarding technology. Paypal Lab is already 2025-2030. In fact Paypal is so advanced that they have their own algorithm that is now used by some governments.
Online banking incrased with the years by a very high percentage, making Paypal totally relevant to this days where most banks prefer now investing in online banking.
You can't compare Paypal and Bitcoin, I don't know why people keep comparing both. Paypal is a payment processor Bitcoin is a (crypto) currency. It's like comparing a car with gaz

You're accusing paypal of being involved in email scam attempts?

Enlighten me, how will that work?
They will trick you to give them your paypal password? This is hilarious.


Let's be honest a bit here.
If we count how many paypal users are there and how many bitcoiners and we compare the amount of scams involving the two..ouch.
Or if we compare the number of successful attempts to get your money back...oh wait , in bitcoinland it does not happen.

But again you're comparing a currency with a payment method.
Compare paypal with bitpay.

Your arguments are extremely one-sided.

Let me say something then: The amount of people who got scammed by paypal chargebacks, and compare that figure to the amount of bitcoin chargebacks or doublespends.

OH wait, in bitcoinland there are no doublespends/chargebacks after 6 confirmations. That's 60 minutes. Let's look at paypal then, you have to wait 180 days. You might say, fair enough, that should be the warranty period... But wait, there are people that have been charged dback after YEARS, because whether paypal can be charged back depends on the credit card company, and credit card companies often side with the buyer.

As a seller online, do you really want to get into this? Prolly not.

Well said, Me too I have experience in the paypal that my account has been lock and it's have almost 400$ but unfortunately that time I am just an under age so no proof of billing and after a year my money has been gone when I have the requirements I am not underage in that year.

I don't know why you guys have a so bad opinion about the Paypal service. Every service will have their won terms and conditions and as long as you follow them then I don't think you will have any issues. I'm using Paypal over last 10 years and never had any issues and I bought many items using their payment service in last 10 years.

I use bitcoins mainly for investment purpose and Paypal to buy things online from unknown persons. I like both of them but for different purposes.

Paypal is rlstill good in online transactions since there is none or still limited shops accepted btc, most of the usage of btc is really for saving and acting as a bank,they both have different expertise so both have benefits on their own ways.

PayPal is like Coinbase. No money is actually moving. PayPal has your money, and they just say "OK, this $100 now belongs to  person X now, but we are holding it". This means that money can be transacted instantly. But to withdraw this amount into a bank, it does require a large amount of time. So I'd say if you disregard PayPal's method of "cheating", yes, it takes longer.

I absolutely agree with you, PayPal takes way longer because of its long bureaucratic procedure and so comparism with Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies is neither here nor there because there's no competition actually. It's just that Bitcoin particularly has had to deal with challenges of delayed confirmation in recent times else PayPal was no match at all.

Faster is not the only thing we need to care about while we use a form of payment. As you know, the fee of bitcoin is too expensive which people do not want to use bitcoin for micro transactions and most of them start moving back to paypal or find other crypto. Bitcoin is good for a big transaction but it is not good for micro transactions anymore. Everything has 2 side. The good face and the bad face

I think the problem here is not because of PayPal it is a back how needs all the verification stuff going on. I think PayPal is instant like Bitcoin, just Bitcoin takes some extra time confirming the transactions like a bank does on their processing method. I don't care about faster transactions anymore all do really care is the anonymous and safe transaction. it provides security like banks and it is transparent too.

Come on guys, it's not even faster than paypal and we are discussing a fake sitaution here. Via paypal, it takes minutes to see the transfer is completed. Via bitcoin, it takes hours and days to be completed.

You're right, but in my country:

We can withdraw cash from paypal to bank within 3-5 days
We can withdraw cash from bitcoin to bank within 1 hour-1 days.

The difference between both of it is just paypal transaction confirmed within seconds which bitcoin created can not do such things.

I think they not actually want paypal but for me they are both have feature that actually both i need from bitcoin this is my majority right now since some of the network i currently working they can pay bitcoin...
But some of the affiliate network  only paypal needed so i still use paypal because there are site can't pay in bitcoin the good thing i think paypal is more faster when sending payment.. unlike bitcoin if you pay low fee your transaction will takes time before it confirms..

I guess it is here in my country we have a coins where i can withdraw my bitcoin and convert or exchange it into pesos and from there i can easily withdraw it in the nearest ATM when i withdraw it only takes a second to confirm and there i could go in the nearest ATM and easily withdraw my money so i guess BITcoin is more fater than paypal for me.

As a buyer would you want to go into bitcoin?
If you receive a bag of sand instead of a phone who are you going to call? Satoshi?

Open the scam accusations sub forum and see how many are there with 1/1000 of the users compared to ebay.
Let's be honest about it.
Paypal is good for buyers bad for sellers.
Bitcoin is bad for buyers good for sellers.
End of it.

This is not about fees of bitcoin. It is about interest what you are talking about actually if people are converting to PayPal. I would give them a good advice that it is not better for to move on from bitcoin because there knowledge is week about bitcoin. So they should go to websites and search there some websites where there is info about bitcoin. After learn they will never move on from bitcoin.