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Title: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: metokr on June 25, 2017, 07:22:59 PM Hello my friends.
Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: coingrow on June 25, 2017, 07:31:50 PM Nano S and Trezor are the safest bitcoin/altcoin wallets you can ever get. Just make sure that the used hardware wallet should not be broken. There is no risk of it getting compromised, as you will be generating a new seed(private key) when you get a used or new hardware wallet. All that you need to do is keep the seed safe, if you loose the seed, you loose all you coins.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: kolloh on June 26, 2017, 03:12:19 AM It should be fine. You should just double check that it is running the stock firmware if it has the option to use a 3rd party firmware as some of them do. Other than that I don't think you have much to worry about.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: blockoptions on June 26, 2017, 04:25:34 AM I thought it's not safe, as Trezor has recovery seed. This seed is generated the first time you run TREZOR and will help you recovering it’s contents (private keys, bitcoin balance, and transaction history) into a new device if you lose your TREZOR.
http://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/software.html#what-are-a-recovery-seed-a-pin-and-encryption-passphrase-and-the-difference-between-them Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: dailycoins on June 26, 2017, 10:00:54 AM I personally wouldn't trust used hw wallets. Just buy a new one if you're going to store any serious amount of coins in it.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: mk4 on June 26, 2017, 11:42:54 AM Hello my friends. Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? err.. I'm not sure if there's something the previous owner could do to steal your keys/bitcoins but if I were to use a hardware wallet for my investment, I definitely wouldn't risk getting a used one. Value your investments. Get a new one instead, don't risk having potential big problems in the future. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: bitcoinstress on June 28, 2017, 10:02:25 AM I personally wouldn't trust used hw wallets. Just buy a new one if you're going to store any serious amount of coins in it. Yes me too, i don't believe with any option for bitcoin wallet. that's why i keep bitcoin at exchange.Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Snorek on June 28, 2017, 10:40:30 AM I am paranoid enough to not trust used bitcoin hardware wallets. If you upgrade firmware you probably should be fine,
but I am afraid the wallet might have been corrupted or replaced by a sophisticated fake, like Chinese copy or something. If someone is giving you their trezor for free or is offering amazingly low price, don't take it. Better stay safe. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: ICObox on June 28, 2017, 11:05:22 AM It seems to me that this insignificant saving can bring problems in the future.
I would not do so if there is no complete trust in the seller. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: dillpicklechips on June 28, 2017, 11:18:41 AM Hello my friends. Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? err.. I'm not sure if there's something the previous owner could do to steal your keys/bitcoins but if I were to use a hardware wallet for my investment, I definitely wouldn't risk getting a used one. Value your investments. Get a new one instead, don't risk having potential big problems in the future. I agree. You might brought it cheaper than what the actual price is but the risk that it might brought to you will not be pleasing. I would also rather buy my own just to be sure. Also the possibility that it might be broken or whatever might bring a problem too. That's why you need the reason why he will sell it though you can't expect a 100% guaranteed honest answer especially if the reason might change your thinking to buy the used hardware wallet. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Kprawn on June 28, 2017, 04:07:04 PM How will you trust that someone did not record the recovery seed and then use that to recover the wallet onto another Trezor? The reason why
you have the recovery seed, is when your hardware wallet fail and you want to restore your wallet onto a new device. Will you trust someone if they offered you a key to their used safe deposit box? {They could have made a duplicate of the key} ??? Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Muhammed Zakir on June 28, 2017, 05:59:50 PM How will you trust that someone did not record the recovery seed and then use that to recover the wallet onto another Trezor? The reason why you have the recovery seed, is when your hardware wallet fail and you want to restore your wallet onto a new device. Will you trust someone if they offered you a key to their used safe deposit box? {They could have made a duplicate of the key} ??? You can wipe it and generate a new seed. The problem here is - I am paranoid enough to not trust used bitcoin hardware wallets. If you upgrade firmware you probably should be fine, but I am afraid the wallet might have been corrupted or replaced by a sophisticated fake, like Chinese copy or something. If someone is giving you their trezor for free or is offering amazingly low price, don't take it. Better stay safe. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Ashtville on June 29, 2017, 12:35:23 PM By common sense, no, it was in the property of and under the ownership of someone else, if you completely trust they did not allow anyone (or the previous owner, too) to tamper with it, it could contain malware or be modified in anyway,
a brand new hardware wallet from the manufacturer directly is the best way IMO. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: BitcoinSupremo on June 29, 2017, 01:25:41 PM It is never recommended to buy a used hardware wallet because the other person who had this in use before selling it to you may have flashed the firmware or do some other nasty trick. This way even if you wipe your wallet that firmware installed there on the chip may have bugs and it may show your seed to the person who had this before. This happens very rarely but just to be sure because I suppose in a hardware wallet you will keep a good amount of bitcoin.
My advice is always buy a sealed new one and always buy only from the official website. Even buying in Ebay and Amazon I am afraid. You may say I am a fanatic but when it comes to bitcoin, security is ranked at first. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Mirror, Mirror, on the Wa on June 29, 2017, 03:16:15 PM The risk is exposure of the hardware itself to someone else, even if they can't implant a malware into it they can even replace the hardware with fake and possible maliciously modified hardware, either to cheat or worse, steal the bitcoin deposited later.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Netnox on June 30, 2017, 04:06:03 AM I will never use a second hand hardware wallet, under any circumstances. I know that these wallets are not cheap (for example, Trezor costs around $100 per piece). But if you have coins worth $20,000 or $30,000 with you, then what is wrong in spending 0.5% of that for a permanent storage solution?
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: predic on June 30, 2017, 08:37:54 AM I didn't use trezor and similar, but logically, if I send you even a photo, I can implement a virus in this file,
is it a photo, txt file or wallet, it can be sent together with virus, trojan, etc. another person already mentioned seed generated in advance, only one person should know the seed, Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: TryNinja on June 30, 2017, 02:54:03 PM It is never recommended to buy a used hardware wallet because the other person who had this in use before selling it to you may have flashed the firmware or do some other nasty trick. This way even if you wipe your wallet that firmware installed there on the chip may have bugs and it may show your seed to the person who had this before. This happens very rarely but just to be sure because I suppose in a hardware wallet you will keep a good amount of bitcoin. That wouldn't be possible. Both Trezor and Ledger have security measures to avoid the attempt of installing malwares in your hardware wallet. See above:Trezor: Quote Reflashing the TREZOR with evil firmware Official TREZOR firmware is signed by the SatoshiLabs master key. Installing unofficial firmware on the TREZOR is possible, but doing so will wipe the device storage and TREZOR will show a warning every time it starts. Reprogramming the bootloader is impossible because all TREZORs ship with their secure programming fuse blown. Inspect the TREZORs memory with an electron microscope You might imagine yourself dissolving the TREZOR CPU in acid, finding the reprogramming fuse, repairing it, and then loading evil firmware on the TREZOR. I’m no science fiction author, but my guess is – this might be possible. However, the Cortex M3 is a sensitive multilayer chip. The components inside are much smaller than those fake eBay amps. Chances are, all you’d end up doing is destroying the chip. Even if you succeeded in doing so, this will be a costly and time-consuming task. In the end, the bitcoins will be gone already because the original owner will have changed their recovery seed upon discovering that their TREZOR was stolen. Evil maid attack - replace the TREZOR with a fake It might be possible for an evil ninja, or your little brother, to steal your TREZOR and replace it with a fake TREZOR. If the fake TREZOR was embedded with a wireless transmitter, then the fake TREZOR could wirelessly transmit any PIN it received. The attacker would then have full access to your funds. If you are concerned about such an attack, it is a good idea to sign the back of your TREZOR with a permanent pen. Don’t forget to check the signature before each use. The TREZOR’s chassis is sealed using ultrasound. Opening the TREZOR without destroying the case is nearly impossible. Ledger: Quote How to verify the security integrity of my Nano S? On the hardware side, if you want to check that the Nano S has not been tampered with, or the applications running are the official apps, here are a few things that you might need to know: 1) The Secure Element checks the full microcontroller flash at boot (this is described in our blog post). If it has been modified, you'll get a warning at boot. As an additional check, you can open the device to verify that no additional chip has been added (referring to the attached picture) and that the MCU is an stm2f042k6 (with 32 Kb flash, as a bigger flash could contain code fooling the Secure Element validation). Markings on the chip can vary but you should see the string "042K6". 2) The Secure Element itself is personalized at factory with an attestation proving that it has been created by us. You can verify it by running pip install --no-cache-dir ledgerblue python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuine --targetId 0x31100002 The source code is available here: https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-loader-python/blob/master/ledgerblue/checkGenuine.py 3) Each individual application will display a "Non Genuine" warning if not signed when opened. A modified User Interface (as found in https://github.com/LedgerHQ/nanos-ui) will also display a warning message on boot. 4) The root of trust for the current batch is the following secp256k1 public key : 0490f5c9d15a0134bb019d2afd0bf297149738459706e7ac5be4abc350a1f818057224fce12ec9a 65de18ec34d6e8c24db927835ea1692b14c32e9836a75dad609 - as checked in checkGenuine.py https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-loader-python/blob/master/ledgerblue/checkGenuine.py#L72 Sources: https://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/threats.html http://support.ledgerwallet.com/knowledge_base/topics/how-to-verify-the-security-integrity-of-my-nano-s Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: European Central Bank on June 30, 2017, 11:08:21 PM there may well be technical reasons why it's an ok idea. i'm not technical enough to be sure. i'd only buy new direct from the manufacturer. the whole point of them is to not take a chance. i ain't taking one now.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: NathanJB on July 01, 2017, 02:27:55 AM Hello my friends. Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? Hello there my friend. The first question will be, will you be storing a huge amount of bitcoin? If yes, I would say you do not compromise them. Why don't you buy a brand new one? The reason why you buy them in the first place is that you want to safe-keep them right? Well the safer way to do it is not to safe-keep them in a hardware wallet that is already used. ;) Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: kawaiipie on July 01, 2017, 03:02:02 AM Based on what I read here on the basics, there are a lot of ways that you can secure your bitcoins and one of which is the hardware wallet. That's the best thing you could do to avoid the hassle and just instantly use it. They could really protect it because you will be the one holding it. I'm planning to get one but I don't have the funds yet.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Kyraishi on July 01, 2017, 06:41:30 AM Hello my friends. Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? Yes, no matter how safe a factory reset or a complete wipe of the system is, technically there is still achance that someone that has evil intentions will scam you, not only with an unsafe Trezor, but anything that you deposit into it as well. The chances of it happening is low, but when it happens, who's to blame? The seller? Sorry, you've got no proof, it could have been a virus on your laptop. The whole idea of bitcoin and hardware wallets is to have trustless, secure storage of your coins. Obviously, nothing can be perfectly trustless, but personally by buying a used trezor i can't sleep well at night knowing that someone might have access to my coins. Just spend the extra $50 and buy a new one. Even if you buy from a reseller, it can technically still not be safe. Quote from: stackexchange If you update the firmware you are probably safe, but why take the chance? The Trezor itself (or even the included USB cable https://www.wired.com/2014/07/usb-security/) could have been corrupted/replaced by a sophisticated actor. If someone gave me a used Trezor for free, I would throw it in the garbage. No discount would be sufficient enough for me to justify buying a used Trezor: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dbjd9/trezor_tamper_proof_seal_doesnt_help_much_against/ Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: xskl0 on July 01, 2017, 10:09:55 AM I'm not 100% sure but I think that if a Ledger is manipulated then the application that you have to run on the PC will detect it
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Muhammed Zakir on July 01, 2017, 10:52:46 AM @OP: Please lock (bottom left) this thread if your questions or doubts are cleared.
I'm not 100% sure but I think that if a Ledger is manipulated then the application that you have to run on the PC will detect it -snip- That wouldn't be possible. Both Trezor and Ledger have security measures to avoid the attempt of installing malwares in your hardware wallet. See above: Trezor: Quote -snip- Ledger: Quote How to verify the security integrity of my Nano S? On the hardware side, if you want to check that the Nano S has not been tampered with, or the applications running are the official apps, here are a few things that you might need to know: 1) The Secure Element checks the full microcontroller flash at boot (this is described in our blog post). If it has been modified, you'll get a warning at boot. As an additional check, you can open the device to verify that no additional chip has been added (referring to the attached picture) and that the MCU is an stm2f042k6 (with 32 Kb flash, as a bigger flash could contain code fooling the Secure Element validation). Markings on the chip can vary but you should see the string "042K6". 2) The Secure Element itself is personalized at factory with an attestation proving that it has been created by us. You can verify it by running pip install --no-cache-dir ledgerblue python -m ledgerblue.checkGenuine --targetId 0x31100002 The source code is available here: https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-loader-python/blob/master/ledgerblue/checkGenuine.py 3) Each individual application will display a "Non Genuine" warning if not signed when opened. A modified User Interface (as found in https://github.com/LedgerHQ/nanos-ui) will also display a warning message on boot. 4) The root of trust for the current batch is the following secp256k1 public key : 0490f5c9d15a0134bb019d2afd0bf297149738459706e7ac5be4abc350a1f818057224fce12ec9a 65de18ec34d6e8c24db927835ea1692b14c32e9836a75dad609 - as checked in checkGenuine.py https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-loader-python/blob/master/ledgerblue/checkGenuine.py#L72 Sources: https://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/threats.html http://support.ledgerwallet.com/knowledge_base/topics/how-to-verify-the-security-integrity-of-my-nano-s Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: BartS on July 03, 2017, 07:41:51 PM Hello my friends. Even if it is safe, why risk it? Would you risk putting your money into other person bank account? Of course not, if you cannot afford a hardware wallet then wait until you can, it is a waste of money to buy a hardware wallet and store there a small amount of bitcoin.Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: kawaiipie on July 04, 2017, 07:05:10 AM Hello my friends. Even if it is safe, why risk it? Would you risk putting your money into other person bank account? Of course not, if you cannot afford a hardware wallet then wait until you can, it is a waste of money to buy a hardware wallet and store there a small amount of bitcoin.Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Ahasan on July 05, 2017, 12:47:12 AM My opinion is not to use a second-hand hardware wallet. If you store many coins, it should be risky. You should buy a new one. I don't trust in used things which are risky.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: dimanyc on July 05, 2017, 02:17:26 AM Do you know if I can use 1 hardware wallet like Trezor for multiple accounts? For instance, if I have an account for myself and another one for my wife, can i set them up separately on one device?
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Blake_Last on July 05, 2017, 03:20:58 AM If you have the budget worth to buy a new hardware wallet, then it's better to buy it than purchasing a used one. It will also alleviate your fear that your account will get compromised, though I doubt that that is possible unless someone can get hold of your wallet and knows how to access your recovery seed.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Bianxee on July 05, 2017, 04:03:57 AM If you have the budget worth to buy a new hardware wallet, then it's better to buy it than purchasing a used one. It will also alleviate your fear that your account will get compromised, though I doubt that that is possible unless someone can get hold of your wallet and knows how to access your recovery seed. as far as i know hardware wallet have own seeds or private keys and if t ever lost or compromise your hardware you can able to access it in a new hardware or simply buy a new one then enter your lost hardware .the keys are very important and it is advisable to buy a new one.Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: stevebc on July 05, 2017, 09:29:34 PM I'd stick with new.
Think of it this way - why would someone be selling a used hardware wallet? I can think of no conceivable reason for selling either of mine unless Bitcoin totally fails (price drops to like 5 cents a BTC) I can picture someone selling a used one if they had come up with some nefarious scheme to steal from the buyer. They aren't that expensive new, just spend the money. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Stripple on July 05, 2017, 10:15:23 PM I would take a new one as well, is saving a few of the 70 euros really worth any risk (like ones that we may not even come up with at this point)? For something that would carry considerable value, I would not skimp out at this point.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Reynaldo on July 06, 2017, 05:23:53 PM I personally wouldn't trust used hw wallets. Just buy a new one if you're going to store any serious amount of coins in it. Yes me too, i don't believe with any option for bitcoin wallet. that's why i keep bitcoin at exchange.Are you trolling? exchanges are not safe, just look at MTGOX and so forth. OP get a trezor or use the methods for the nano s to verify the integrity of the wallet, dont listen to newbie accounts that are obviously trolling. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: ayeshajum07 on July 06, 2017, 10:42:15 PM Some hardware wallet made from well refined technology, and some are just made to used.
Try to look the comments on the listed hw wallet https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet. Evaluate first before you buy. Lets learn from other experienced. And dont be a victim. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: lampix on July 07, 2017, 03:48:52 PM Yes, as long as you reset the wallet and create a new seed (new private key). Make sure to keep this new seed written down and stored in a safe place. Losing this information is very bad, as you will not be able to restore your hardware wallet and may lose all your coins.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Vishnu.Reang on July 08, 2017, 02:36:23 PM Almost everyone here believes that Hardware wallet is the best choice to store our coins. But I beg to differ. If we store our coins in a hardware wallet, then the anonymity is lost. You may be storing the wallet in a safe deposit box or a bank locker, but even then the cops can recover your coins if a need arises. So I prefer to keep my coins in online wallets.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Muhammed Zakir on July 08, 2017, 03:31:14 PM Almost everyone here believes that Hardware wallet is the best choice to store our coins. But I beg to differ. If we store our coins in a hardware wallet, then the anonymity is lost. You may be storing the wallet in a safe deposit box or a bank locker, but even then the cops can recover your coins if a need arises. So I prefer to keep my coins in online wallets. Don't spread misinformation! Anonymity is lost when using hardware wallets? Where did you hear that? When you use hardware wallets (normally), your anonymity is not compromised. You WILL loose anonymity if you use online wallets because they will know your IP and all addresses in your wallet. They can basically track all your activity. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: Mike Mayor on July 08, 2017, 11:28:26 PM Why wouldn't it be fine ? Unless there is a virus that sends your info through email or something to the attacker but I'm pretty sure the whole point of Bitcoin wallets was to avoid all this. Also you don't know what they do with them when they manufactured ? So it's the same as if you get it second hand. If you that worried buy a new one.
Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: michellee on July 08, 2017, 11:31:42 PM Hello my friends. Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet like Ledger Nano S or Trezor . Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? in my opinion, trezor is the safe hardware wallet and i think we don't have any danger when we use it. but to avoid something bad, we should place our trezor into a safe place too and only us that will know the place, even for our family don't need to know the place. but trezor is really expensive and if i have more than 100 bitcoin, i will buy 3 trezor and safe my bitcoin to that wallet. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: TryNinja on July 09, 2017, 12:43:48 AM OP should really just lock this thread since it's starting to become one of those spots where newbies come to spam nonsense and misinformation. His question already got answered multiple times and there is no reason to pump this anymore.
but trezor is really expensive and if i have more than 100 bitcoin, i will buy 3 trezor and safe my bitcoin to that wallet. I really don't see why anyone would need multiple hardware wallets to store their coins.Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: profitgenerator212 on July 09, 2017, 07:15:42 AM Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? There could be, if the user is a smart tech savvy person he could reprogram the firmware of the device and steal your coins. It's always a good idea to reflash a second-hand hadrware wallet before using it. Title: Re: Is that safe to buy a used hardware wallet ? Post by: iram3130 on July 09, 2017, 09:33:50 AM Is there any danger to use a second hand hardware wallet ? There could be, if the user is a smart tech savvy person he could reprogram the firmware of the device and steal your coins. It's always a good idea to reflash a second-hand hadrware wallet before using it. |