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Look, I am not obligated to your time. If you are going to dog me for begging for attention, so be it. That's what I am damn doing because I need advice.

I don't feel like living at all at the moment. If I had an accessible firearm, I would of probably blown out my brains 5 minutes ago in a game of Russian Roullette. Thoughts that are convincing me that existence is not worth playing with are around the context  of part of me believing I am a parasite, that all I do is take from people and never give anything worthwhile back. I feel basically like I have contributed nothing and I always fail at doing so.

I have gotten pretty suicidal infrequently over the past few months. They've put me on these meds -- but all they do is nullify all feeling. They make existence even more pointless for me without the real pain of it all.

Just tell me this will go away over the years. I feel I am gradually going insane. I don't know what factors or cursed genetics caused this but I want to be a stable organism.

Has anyone gone through this and fixed it? Is it just a matter of accepting it?

Who is to say everyone isn't a parasite.  Even the so called best "contributors" will consume before they can give back.  A plant that sprouts from a seed has to break through the soil and sprout, it accomplishes all of this because the parent plant provided the nutrients in the seed.  Who is to say you don't have the right to your 'fair share'?  BTW most people are assholes, don't worry about appeasing them because they will always want more.


Have you tried switching meds?  Physiological drugs work in different ways and one may be suboptimal compared to the other.  Maybe it isn't even depression but maybe anxiety, etc.

Go out and give back...write an Instructable showing others something you know how to do...do something good for society without being asked and ask for nothing in return (not even recognition)...find a passion you have and exploit it...but most of all figure out what you want.

I use my depression as a clear sign that I need to make a change in my life somewhere...it might be small...maybe its huge, I cannot pretend to understand what anyone outside of myself is going through in their own head...tough times happen...I have not been fully self sufficient or successful in all of my ventures through life but I still got by and that in itself is still better than death (not trying to say I know what happens after death, I am curious...but not that curious).

Basically, I decided a long time ago one thing...most people on their deathbed regret not living enough...why cut that shorter...go live.

BTW...the only difference between being crazy and eccentric is how much money you have...otherwise they are the same thing...crazy is good sometimes...it would be very boring if we were all the same.

I have been in your boat feeling like I was slipping away with no control...for me I focus on working on something...I do quite a few things so if I am bored I move on to another thing...to some that in itself would drive them crazy but for me its comforting (as is being out of my element intellectually, I find comfort in that difficult feeling when you do not understand something you are learning...once its figured out I have to move on to something new).

firearm + webcam + live stream

think about it

Why don't you think about WTF you just said? Being online is not a license to act anyway you want.

And yet I do.
If you think people need permission to speak their mind then you should do the world a favour and cash out too.  ::)

I like having you around, Atlas.

If I recall correctly, you are adolescent.  This is a horrible, disgusting time in life that will pass.
I hope your mood problems are pass with it.

All those of us who've gone through similar periods can tell you is that, though it might take years and work, it can get better.

Embrace those around you who can help, and keep your head above water (I think you'll appreciate the irony in that mixed metaphor).

Atlas, you're a teenager for goodness sake! Crappy moods (even suicidal thoughts) are a normal part of the package.

Now, you mention being medicated.  Are these run-of-the-mill antidepressants?  If so, you should stick with them until they had the time to have an effect.  If for whatever reason you can't stand the side-effects, ask your doctor to try a different variety.  Also, good quality sleep is perhaps the most important factor in recovering from a depression.  This means going to bed early instead of engaging in discussions on the Internet late at night.  And yes, I'm explicitly referring to discussions on the Bitcoin forums!

If the problem is not a run-of-the-mill depression, then make sure you are being accompanied by a good professional.

No, it is definitely not a matter of accepting it. When I feel like I am not contributing I find a way to be genuinely helpful, and the feeling goes away. It also helps if I accomplish something for myself that has real value.

Doing things differently will most likely help you. However, if no action you take alters your thinking, you could have a more serious issue.

What exactly HAVE you done? Other than the drugs? Did you try to volunteer, or something like that? It's well known that drugs by themselves rarely fix serious mental problems. Look into cognitive behavior therapy (http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Over-Mood-Change-Changing/dp/0898621283).

Whatever you do, do not wait for it to go away. The deeper your habits of thinking entrench themselves in your brain, the harder they become to control. Of course, there is a chance that this is a "phase", but you should not risk that. Teenagers can suffer also, it annoys me when teenage problems are dismissed as normal.

I'm saying this in all seriousness: kick the drugs and replace them with daily exercise and lots of water. Really fresh apples can also be a good boost to mental state (if you don't mind apples).

Atlas, I can't always tell how literally to take your posts, so I'm not responding directly to this one. But I always find your posts about society to be very interesting and insightful.

Anyway, my two cents' worth follows:

If someone is depressed, antidepressants may not be the answer. Sometimes they don't make the person feel good enough about themselves to resolve the depression, yet they increase the person's general motivation enough that the person gets the urge to "do something" about their "crappy life".

An alternative therapy is to learn to commune with nature. Take a brisk walk for an hour (four or five times per week). Perferably, a walk that takes you up and down some hills, through some woodland, and to some water. It will seem hard work and stupid and pointless at first. But stick with it for two weeks and by then you'll come to look forward to it as a way to clear your head and refocus on positive things.

Of course, and even better therapy is just to share laughter with some friends. But that's not a situation that everyone can "conjure up" just like that.

Strop reading Rand or whatever it is you fill your head up with, but that aside remember this useful quote from the film The Legend of 1900...

"Life is immense, immense!!!"

You've barely scratched the surface of it, don't allow yourself to beleive it's all just selfish organisms and survival strategies, that's how clinical psychopaths see the world, they see the form but not the depth, they know the words but cannot feel the rythm. It's empty and pointless to live like that which is why clinical psychopaths often go to such extremes to squeeze meaning from the neck of life.

If you had the power I'd recommend travel, seeing the world, meeting different people, getting out of the envelope of the only thing you know.

Grow or die.

Sex works wonders for coping with pretty much anything.  But nobody is going to love you until you love yourself so read on for my 0.02 BTC.

See my picture in my site faq.  Wheelchair, shot fine motor skills, bald and a dozen other problems. There will be dozens more before my out of control, high speed drift through this realm is over.

In the weird negative feedback loop of life, the idea that the beatings will continue until morale improves.

You need to make a choice that you will feel good and you will see goodness in the world around you.

It's going to be hard at first if you're not used to doing that.

Just fake it until you make it a you'll get there in no time. 

Atlas if this is over the women you wanted to get involved with, erm.. fuck it , its just a women and there is plenty more just deal with it and in a month you would be sorted.

My advice(if its women related but you disguise it as something else in this thread) just goto club, get fucked drunk and screw whatever moves(preferably something that looks good)

Did you feel the same before the meds? I was prescribed anti-depressants a couple of years back and they made me feel very suicidal.

There are different kinds of meds and not all of them suit everyone. You should talk to whomever prescribed them.

I agree with the above.

You might not know this but antidepressants can actually increase suicidal thought in teens and young adults.
They now come with a black box warning for this.
http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=66 (http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=66)
Withdrawal from psychiatric drugs should be done carefully.

That needs to be taken very seriously...certain drugs you need to be weened from (i.e. lithium, someone correct me if I am wrong, that is just what I have been told).  Consult your doctor...let them know you are interested in alternate treatment and see what they can do...if they have no other option...find a new doctor.

There have been a few dark days during my own teenage years that I'd quietly considered not-so-quietly 'cashing out', had I a firearm at hand. Thankfully I no longer feel that way. I don't think you will wake up one day to find your suicidal tendencies just disappeared without having put in some effort to resolve the underlying issues, as though a simple addition of 'years since birth' is the only factor in determining ones mental stability, and I definitely don't think a chemical dependence is the way to go. Assuming you agree, or this thread wouldn't be here...

I would be happy to talk with you about this one on one sometime Atlas, if you like. From your singular post in this thread I can't pinpoint an instant solution for you, but I would like to help you explore your feelings and see what answers we can find. For example, examining times you've had the chance to contribute but chose not to, or times you've failed to achieve whatever it is you wanted to, what your motivations were at these times and how these manifested as undesirable actions and outcomes, or why you feel so strongly about your perspective that you are willing to ventilate your skull. Take this strangers advice with a pinch of salt, but I would recommend weaning yourself off the drugs and taking time for some honest introspection - aided if you don't think you can pull yourself out of your gloom.

I know I'm an unknown here at the moment; I've been quietly lurking for a while. I know of somebody else who regularly helps people talk out their issues who I think would gladly speak with you, if you'd rather.

I wouldn't condone suicide, but I think its' a position I can understand... if somebody chooses to die then that is a sad choice, but it is their choice to make nonetheless.

Is it legal in the US? It's not a legal choice given to Australians.

Sorry, totally off-topic, no need to discuss that here.

Hi Atlas - I too have enjoyed your posts, your reasoning, and your principled stance on morality. I have a few thoughts for you.

First, every teenager in a way is a parasite until they are off on their own. That is fine! Humans live in an advanced society in which children, up through their teen years and often into their 20's, live off the product of their parents. Eventually, they learn enough to move out into the world and start producing for themselves. This is both a scary thing and an empowering thing - but it is a totally rational and reasonable thing as well, if one understands the economics of it. Like you, I'm of the same moral compass - the one which strongly disdains parasitism. But remember, there is all the difference in the world between voluntary giving (which is what your parents/family/friends) have done for you, and forceful taking (which is what governments and democracies do).  There is nothing wrong with the former. There is everything wrong with the latter. Don't confuse real "parasites" with simple voluntary dependency. All people, Mr. Galt included, have been dependent on someone at some stage in life. So long as it was a voluntary dependency, and not a forced parasitism, no problem exists.

Second, holding oneself to a high moral standard is noble, but it is also a great burden. As you're someone who sees parasites everywhere, you will naturally be checking yourself for that same flaw. This self-criticism, and intense self-reflection, is healthy so long as you remain rational about it. Are you indeed a parasite, living off other people without their choosing? Forcing them to feed you? I doubt you are. Again, see the first point above.

Third, production is hard. If you believe you should be producing more value, then go attempt such, but be ready for defeat after defeat. Don't give up. Successful people are defeated endlessly.

Forth, this may sound harsh, but someone who lived off their parents for 10 or 20 years and THEN decided simply to off themselves... well, that would be a parasite. That would not be noble, nor valuable to anyone. It would be a massive destruction of resources and lost time, money, energy, and emotional development. It serves no purpose, other than to relieve the person in question of the responsibility of fighting that great struggle to become a producer. I would hate to think that you would succumb to such nonsense.

Fifth, you're a teenager!! You should be LEARNING everything you can at that stage. New ideas, new systems, new opportunities. You ought not be producing until you've learned all you can, and then you can start producing in the right direction. Enjoy the voluntary dependency you now have with your family - when you ARE eventually on your own, you'll miss it.

So don't despair. Stand up, realize you're going through a phase of intense self-reflection (though it may last years), and start doing good for yourself and those around you. This doesn't mean "giving to charity." This means, make sure you're fighting the good fight, and pushing yourself through the world as a noble person. Correct your flaws. Don't make excuses. And never give in to emotions of self-doubt.

You're an advocate of Bitcoin, after-all. That provides more value than what many "adults" are currently engaged in. 

Cheers.

Atlas you need to accept that altruism is a natural part of human nature and trying to deny it based on the theory that a man is only worth as much as his monetary possesions is an insane standpoint to 99.9% of the population.

I sometimes wonder myself what the point of existence is. I don't really fear death anymore. And if life is a misery then I sometimes question why we have that survival instinct. It's clearly some evolutionary thing.

I personally think that the modern quality of life, especially in the West, is terrible.

We are supposed to live in tribal communities. Life is not about sitting behind computers, buying consumer products, working 8 to 6 doing jobs that most of us hate etc. in order to try and retire early which most of us will never achieve.

I see those in the developing world and I honestly think their lives are better.


Now you see yourself as a parasite and just taking and not giving. Well firstly, you know you are doing it so you have a conscience. Regret in itself shows some humility. But why self-loathe yourself? You have to accept yourself for what you are. We are not all what we think we should be.

You can strive for something, but don't fight your nature. It is what it is.


I'm not perfect. There are things about me I wish were different. But there is not much I can do about it now.

Get rid of any Judeo Christian Islamic thinking or shame and find a woman for just sex.

You will pay for sex for the rest of your natural life one way or another.  At least with a prostitute, there's a final price tag.

A lot of women in the industry are REALLY good psychologists.  And a lot of them are batshit insane.  Don't go for the first pitch.  They need your business and it will be a business transaction.

You wouldn't believe what you can learn when you have a woman under explicit orders to let you know when you are being stupid or otherwise ignorant and how it should be corrected.

You don't just need to get cloth off your body.  You need to get it off your mind.  I don't know anybody who can do that by themselves.

Reaching out to a bunch of anonymous people on the net will not go very far if it moves you forward at all. 

And remember to pay in bitcoins!

In all seriousness, even if the quality of life sucks, try to find a niche that helps people, because if you improve the quality of life for other people, you yourself will have a better quality of life.

when I feel shitty, I make art.  No one to satisfy but yourself :D

Since we really cannot win against the PTB, I'd rather see headlines like "bitcoin drives people to solicit prostitution" instead of "bitcoin drives people to suicide." :-)

Think of your fellow lunatics, Atlas.

Hey Atlas, I don't know you man, but just stay living man. :)  I was within minutes of doing that myself, 18 years ago.
 
Now, 18 years later, I'm married, have an awesome baby boy, and can't imagine not living.   Had I done what I was going to do when I was a senior, this beautiful baby boy would not exist, and his happy squeals of joy when I enter the room would be silent.
 
Don't do it!  Life goes on, it gets better.... and if it doesn't, get a hooker ;)

Furthermore, if you don't have one (or a fun one) yet, try to get a hobby that you look forward to.  My current hobby is tinkering around on my boat, and boating/swimming.  I also try to take my dogs on long walks, it gets us all exercise which helps clear your mind as well. 
 
If I wasn't into boating, I'd totally get a remote-controlled helicopter. :)

Living is an experience. It's not always a very nice one, sometimes it feels terrible and continues to do so for a long time. It still beats the hell out of the alternative. We'll all have plenty of time to rot in the ground, why hasten death?

As for being a parasite... even if you were, why would you care? Just because you were born, it doesn't mean you owe the world something. Find the things you like doing and do them. It'll mean taking risks, it'll mean failing, and it'll probably mean changing your mind about what it is you like doing many times. You're not likely to find a true purpose in life, something you intend to do until you die, but that's a good thing. Not knowing what you're going to do next keeps things interesting...

Seriously. Don't off yourself. You'd be killing off a whole world - the one you experience.

First of all, if this means anything, I have nothing but respect for you, Atlas. I've learned an incredible amount from all of you're posts, and you have motivated me to learn more. You are the smartest, most intellectual 17 year old I've ever met (Especially considering how stupid kids are in my area.) I've read thousands of depression posts like this, and usually I have no reaction other than "Well, that sucks." But reading this coming from you actually made me hurt inside. We haven't even really talked that much, but I have profound respect for you anyways, just from reading posts from you and pm's occasionally.

deadlizard, I have now lost every last bit of respect I've ever had for you.

Life has no meaning but what we make.

I have thought long and hard about suicide several times in my life. The worst despair was in my early 20s, and for no apparent exogenous reason. My life was fine according to normal indicators. The cloud over me didn't lift until I had intensively researched suicide methods and come up with a method that appeared reasonably painless, accessible, and foolproof (hydrogen sulfide inhalation). Knowing that I could quit life whenever I wanted to, it became unimportant to quit just then. The sodium sulfide and citric acid are still waiting in the closet in case I change my mind.

I've never discussed my suicidal thoughts with a professional or anyone who knows me face to face. I'm not crying for help. I'm preparing an exit strategy. Hopefully life retains enough meaning to hold me here, but if not I know how to leave.

You grow out of it, then you regret the time you wasted acting like a little bitch.

As far as being a parasite and never helping anybody, I'd greatly appreciate your bitcoins:

1ESG4qM68ZU2X3QD5R3ywv1LSRVRWQaVdT

50 would be rad as fuck.

Statisticaly those that talk about it don't go through with it.
And if for some reason he does he might aswell make it memorable.

You're 100 % wrong. It is VERY important to take people who talk about suicide seriously.

Almost everyone who ends up committing suicide talks about it beforehand. It can be for a variety of reasons, but it's generally thought of as the last desperate call for help.

Also, compared with the rest, people with a history of depression are orders of magnitude more likely to commit suicide. Roughly 15 % of people with diagnosed depression end up killing themselves.

It is very important that the OP's depression is treated. That should be the #1 priority. Even if he's not yet too serious about what he says.

Yes, there is some very empowering thing about becoming *post-suicidal* if you could call it that.  Basically, then you realize that you can do just about anything.  Become a full-blown agorist.  Don't worry about cops shutting down your business.  Go out and be civilly disobedient.  Go change your name, reinvent yourself, move to a random country, learn their language, and spread the ideas of anti-statism to them.  Take more chances.

*Disclaimer: I don't necessarily advocate that you go out and try to get yourself in trouble with the police.  All I'm saying is that now your can raise your risk threshold.  Now you are enabled to do so much more that was previously out of question.  Although as a voluntaryist, I would advise against any acts of violence, needlesstosay.  But there are so many other things that you can now do.

But yes, I do enjoy your posts here on bitcoin forum and would definitely miss you're insightful inputs.

Yes, you're going to grow out of this.

Shit, I need to read the threads before I post.  Easy there Atlas, you got this

It'll go away. I'm more than twice your age and I can almost guarantee it.
And you have no idea what you give to people. Things that are insignificant to you could mean the world to others.

Leave these forums, go out and exercise moderately, have a look at the TED-talk about blue zones, follow some of the advice there.
Forget about Ayn Rand for a bit and come back when you feel better. I'll still be here bashing the ultra individualistic society that's in favour in these forums. Perhaps I'll even have a greater understanding of your points.
Be well. All else is secondary.

The only thing stopping me killing myself while I was younger was imagining someone finding me. How much it'd screw them up and how selfish that'd be..and then thinking about how much some people in this world would kill to be in my position. No matter where you are in your life, a lot of people would love to have what you have right now.