Bitcoin Forum

"Bitcoin Unlimited is supported by Roger Ver, a bitcoin entrepreneur that is claimed to own around 300,000 bitcoins, bitcoin.com and a large number of influential bitcoin domains. Ver can influence the popularity of BTU, via using bitcoin.com as a marketing tool, because, to the public, bitcoin.com might seem like an official bitcoin portal." (source: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/ (https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/))

So it seems this Roger Ver bloke wants the fork. He is on his way to having a $billion in bitcoin soon yet it has been said he wants the fork and it is said he is using the websites that people thing are official to push his views. (source: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/ (https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/))

Do you want the fork? Will it be better to stay single track or basically split the coins AND there is also a possibility of another split (source: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/ (https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/))

What will happen to bitcoin if the fork goes ahead? How will we benefit or lose out both short term and long term?

If he owns 300k bitcoins then that makes him a bitcoin whale however, his push towards the fork means he wants something to change.

Spock once said (and Kirk followed suit later): "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one" but it seems here the needs of the one with 300k bitcoins wants to shape the future of bitcoin that affects the many who are also involved...

Lesson For Future: Majority coin holder does NOT rule over minority coin holders.... !!

http://www.troll.me/images/what-spock-really-meant/the-needs-of-the-many-outweigh-the-needs-of-the-few-or-the-one-majority-rules-bitch-thumb.jpg

That is a good quote, not sure if he actually wants that. Everyone has an inner greedy desire inside.

Having a lot of Bitcoin matters but doesn't give you ownership of the network

It will always be 1% ruling the other 99%, although is there any proof to support your claim that he holds that many?

He's just a normal investor but he's one of those whales that makes the price of bitcoin moved. He wants the fork maybe there is something that he wanted to take advantage or he just want simply a good network for transactions. We don't know his ideas and well he's one of the richest bitcoin person.

@Metroid
Yes everyone (ish) has greedy desires but there is no guarantee for this Roger Ver bloke that he will actually benefit after any fork takes place and yes it makes him a whale if he has 300k bitcoin but here is the thing, even if he wants change there is no guarantee he will benefit from it

@satoshforever
I agree, having a large number of bitcoins does not give ownership of the network but this Roger Ver geezer seems to be pushing for change

@puvanb
(source: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/ (https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/))

@batang_bitcoin
I think we know ideas according to the links provided. What can be said confidently is that he owns bitcoin.com (which is not official domain) and some other websites to promote his own vision of what the future of bitcoin should look like

ver - heard involved with  lots of scams lately.... wouldn't trust.

Can you provide the Source please, I would like to read it.

I feel that is true, just because someone is a whale it does not mean they have a right make a monumental historical decision on the basis they can push a point of view because of a few domain names and a few websites and because they have a large chunk of coins

In with proven scams like dash and proven scammers like dai from qtum.
Ver will push anything that makes him returns no matter the proven dirt attached to the project.
From bitcoin jesus to bitcoin satan many are saying

Ah thank you for that information. I was away from the altcoin scene for a long time and did not know he was involved in Dash.

Oh well, if he has a reputation then maybe he will try to force through a fork but as of yet it is speculation and nothing has been confirmed (I think)

why are you posting a month old bitcoin news in the altcoin discussion board?

Because I want to.

Why are you writing a pointless question-cum-reply to the questions asked in the opening post:

Do you want the fork? Will it be better to stay single track or basically split the coins AND there is also a possibility of another split (source: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/)

What will happen to bitcoin if the fork goes ahead? How will we benefit or lose out both short term and long term?

This gives more chance to end up with 2 chains (real fork).
However, he will have to discuss with the exchanges to accept BU too. The good part is that we'll have 2x number of coins. I don't expect him to lose money off this.
I also expect other whales with similar amounts of money to understand that SegWit is the direction to achieve evolution.
August 1 days will be .. interesting. The only smart move I can see is to buy more Bitcoin and keep them in wallet where we have full control over the private key. Let's earn money from both chains!


One of the chains will surely be called altcoin.
And everybody gets out all the tools they can for speculation in every ways possible.
We talk here about money. Big money.

Don't worry i reported him.. TO GLEB GAMOW !  :o

http://i63.tinypic.com/23rk9xe.jpg

Oh and we are all greedy ?

Ya well tell that to the money i lit on fire..

http://i65.tinypic.com/358rq6g.jpg

Holy Sheesh Kebabz ..... you are from Canada? I thought you were from Russia  :o

Yes please report me to Gringo Gamow and have me arrested by the Bitcoin Policio !

Does he really own 300k still?  Hasn't he pit a ton if it into Dash, Ethereum and other projects?

According to the source links which is very recent, he has 300k bitcoins. If he pumped a lot of it in to other projects then maybe the number drops but as per the link, that is what it states...

Stop and think for a moment.
If I own a large number of Bitcoins, and Bitcoin.com (http://Bitcoin.com),  that means I'm financially motivated to do everything I can to improve the value of those assets.
This is unlike Adam Back, the CEO of Blockstream, who by his own admission (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15672.msg1873483#msg1873483), and despite having known about Bitcoin for about 5 years due to being contacted by Satoshi himself in 2008, he didn't own a single Bitcoin himself in April of 2013.  I doubt he has many bitcoins now either.

Compare that with someone like myself who spent nearly every penny I had buying Bitcoin as soon as I learned about them in 2011.
Adam Back can run circles around me when it comes to the underlying mathematics of Bitcoin,  but he has demonstrated by his own actions that he has absolutely no clue why Bitcoin came to be used as money, and to this day he still doesn't understand why Bitcoin is money. Sadly, his firm has done an incredible amount of harm to Bitcoin's adoption rate and has caused Bitcoin's market share to plummet from around 90% to less than 50% today.

Bitcoin is the only coin in the world to ever have had full blocks.
If we want to experiment with the effects of full blocks on a system,  it is incredibly reckless to do it on Bitcoin, yet that is exactly what Adam and his ilk have done.  If we want to experiment with full blocks, do it on an alt coin!

Roger Ver at some point will probably be arrested and thrown into prison for tax evasion.  If it is true he has 300,000 Bitcoins then he's on the hook for some $120+ million in back taxes to the IRS and penalties / interest from when he left USA in 2014.  I'm not sure about the IRS penalties but they could very well seize everything he owns due to the obvious massive conspiracy to commit tax fraud.  The token amount he gave them years ago was nowhere close to his owed amount.

Actually this is also the guy who is also a convicted terrorist too, for mailing explosives in the mail.  So it's practically a step backwards to commit something petty (by comparison to terrorism) like tax fraud.
 

Surprised Japan let him in and the various agencies aren't bothering him yet.   I guess Roger Ver avoiding drugs has kept him out of the spotlight or maybe he's giving people envelopes full of cash?

But arguably Roger Ver's rambling and trying to assert an authority image has hurt Bitcoin more than help it (especially the white legal side.  The criminal black side probably loves Roger Ver's libertarian rambles).

all this talk and drama aside, to be honest sometimes you two camps seem more like two kids pulling at a doll that each wants to play with alone.
the fear is that you are going to tear this doll apart in the end and each go play with some new dolls.

you can see the "tear" starting already...

It is funny that I see this about Roger Ver. I looked him up a few times when I first saw his name. He is called Bitcoin Jesus,,, or maybe he calls himself this. And now he is against Bitcoin. What does this say? He "invested" into Bitcoin, and now he has a lot of money he wants to kill it?

agreed he can benefit after the hardfork if the price increases alot not only him it will also benifit us who use bitcoin and those who hold bitcoins and those people who want higher price of bitcoin , 300k btc is huge i wonder if he would sell it at once

Such a large Bitocin Whale inevitably is going to look after his own interests. Most Whales and Elites always take advantage in a crisis. If Bitcoin forkes and all the little fish run amok and panic, what will the big whales do? Scoop up all the cheap coins and won;t even say thank you very much. They will all grow an even larger bag of Bitcoin.

How can you be sure he has that much? I think he's heavily invested in altcoins, and probably lowered a lot his position in Bitcoin, otherwise he would not be bringing so much risk to his own investment.

Very interesting comments from you. Thanks for the input.

So you said you spent every penny you had buying up bitcoin in 2011. They might be around 333 bitcoin per $100 back then (give or take a few), so how many do you still hold and how many was the maximum you held before you (or if you) sold them?

But, why are you want to forking the bitcoin? and make another clone of bitcoin will be appearing such as BTU.

All of the altcoin already had the full blocks. I think that ripple can be considered as the fastest altcoin right now, even NEM too.

The problem of bitcoin just related to the actual use.  ??? ??? ???

If hard fork will happen bitcoin price will be down short term and when it get stable than new investment will start coming back to the crypto world and people will again do trading as normal and than bitcoin price will grow normally and I am sure in long run bitcoin is very strong.

I am not sure about how much he own but at the time of article being released it mentioned he has 300k bitcoins

As highlighted by other posts here, there is a possibility that his stake has been reduced after he has invested in various other alcoin projects but that amount of 300k was in the original article:
https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/ (https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/06/16/bitcoin-imminent-fork-aftermaths/)

I hope the fork happens with time reach.There may  have 2 kinds of bitcoins, one belongs to core, the other one belongs to community.

Aug 1st will be an interesting date in the history of bitcoin. All this is avoidable but at the same time there is a case to make for both camps

Lots of alts have had full blocks. ETH was stuffed with ICO mania for days. Roger is wrong and he's paying for it with the rest of us

Possibly and that something might not be more money. It might be that he wants BTC to remain ideologically aligned to its foundational principles. Personally it has been my observation that there's individuals that are attempting to hijack Bitcoin. This is a +$50billion industry and the new greedy whales are who we need to be wary off not people who were there from the beginning.

---

I wonder how many people here have read Satoshi's white paper? I suggest go read it and come back and tell me which part of the white paper does Roger disagree with? Can we debate that instead of reading a few tweets from certain individuals and basing your position on that?

His name is attached to those that are trying to change the face of bitcoin but exactly what is he (or others wanting the fork) guaranteed of gaining from it? There are no guarantees except uncertainty...

he's invested in so much shit over the years he won't have anywhere near that many coins any more.

i really don't understand what he's trying to achieve but it's time he went off to play with his dash. he has nothing to offer.

He's a salesman. He'll sell firecrackers to the highest bidder. I don't think he cares who loses fingers. Because principles

Well this is going all over the place in a hurry.
I agree when he said he has a motivation to make what he has valuable.
That makes perfect sense.

I also am curious about the tax evasion comments.
I am not an expert on Taxes or worse American Tax laws.
But from what i have gathered so far is both CAN/USA have guidelines saying you must declare trading profits.
So if he bought his BTC long ago and simply held them how does he owe taxes on it ?
I think they call it capital gains.
If you send BTC to Poloniex then trade all year long and end up with 100k profit then yeah you would have to pay tax on that.
But f you simply bought or mined BTC etc long ago and never did anything with them how is it you owe ?
Is that because he let the country and doing so creates a tax penalty of sorts or what ?

I am not for or against anyone.
I also am not for or against a fork on BTC.
All i know is it needs to be fixed.. it's gotten pretty bad and damn near unusable as a currency.
and THAT is what i stand up to defend here all the time.

I have $100 in BTC and i don't care about profits.
I just want to see it succeed.

And you all keep saying what if he dumped later.. what like he wouldn't have when it hit 3k each ?

@Mr Ver.
What do you think of Craig Wright and his "I'm Satoshi" drama that pops up occasionally ?
He seems to have Vlad2Vlad convinced i think.. you know Vlad.. Mr IXC  :D

Sounds like a bloke who would put personal gain beyond anything else.

So I take it a given that anything he does or instigates with regards to a fork is based purely on what he thinks will be best for him in the short or long run rather than him thinking what is best for the bitcoin community and the evolution of bitcoin.

So much FUD in one post!
Have you seen my tax returns? I spent close to $1M USD just on lawyers and tax accountants alone to help me file everything exactly perfectly.
I've paid the IRS millions upon millions of dollars and I've never had a "tax problem" with the IRS ever, despite having been audited numerous times.

My crime was "Dealing in Explosives WITHOUT A LICENSE".  I sold store bought fire crackers on ebay,  and my crime was doing it without the right government paperwork.  It was a politically motivated prosecution. Even while I was in prison,  the company I bought the fireworks from, and the manufacturer  were still selling them without a license.  Details here (http://voluntaryist.com/howibecame/rogerver.html#.WWxPadOGN0s).
 

Maybe it is because Japan is a freer country than the USA,  and every convenience store in the country sells fireworks in the summer time.  Try finding that in the land of the free.

I've arguably done more to help the legal side of Bitcoin adoption than anyone else in the world.  Go and read this book (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Gold-Bitcoin-Millionaires-Reinvent/dp/0062362496) for the details. Calling my thoughts "libertarian rambles" doesn't make them any less true.  Taxation is theft.  The draft is kidnapping and slavery.  War is mass murder funded by theft.  I refuse to condone any of those things.

Thanks for the civil reply! That is how adults should act on the internet.   To answer your questions, the number of Bitcoins I own is private,  but the MTGOX logs were leaked at some point and my entire transaction history with that exchange leaked along with it.  It showed that I only bought, never sold, and that went on for years.  My first wire to Mtgox was for $25K when they were less than $1 each.  Unfortunately Mtgox didn't credit my wire until they were over $1 each.  I suspect they actually front ran my order.   Maybe someone else can dig up the rest of those logs.   I still own millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin today. Far far more than all of my alt coin holdings combined.  That alone should be proof that I'm doing exactly what I think is best for the future of Bitcoin. This is unlike most of the core and small block supporters who came to bitcoin much later,  and don't understand the characteristics that made bitcoin come to be used as money.
By their own admission,  most of them hardly use Bitcoin at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyIJ-BUPaU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyIJ-BUPaU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JarEszFY1WY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JarEszFY1WY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOIoWgBIpQY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOIoWgBIpQY)

I seen "FUD" and i thought oh here we go.. but it wasn't me  :o  :D
Hmm i guess he has me on ignore  :'(

I get the impression this guy is far more reputable then a rpietila of Monero infamy.
People are always split with Ver it seems.. either they love or hate him.
Me ? I don't know the guy or much about him.
So it was good for him to post back and clear the air.

All i hope is his motivations are positive because that is the correct path to take for success.
Which isn't about coin prices as all users here rail on about non stop.

I am not sure i am against the guys opinions the fork issue though.
But i have not studied it like others nor do i feel qualified to weigh in on it that much.
There is a variety of factors to it so it's not too simple in my view to judge.

All i do know is Bitcoin is fucked up these days and something needs to be done ASAP.
If he can help with that then great..

at this point, i dont even care if theres a fork, lets just get it done with ffs

Have all answers about fork.
Easy topic:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2007635.msg19988238#msg19988238
Complex topic:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2018878.msg20119234#msg20119234

Have 300k don't make Roger ver the owner of the network! I have been hearing about bitcoin unlimited and I always take the promoter of it as the politicians finance part of bitcoin. They interest is to see the network divided so that elites can control it. Hope it did not succeed this time as it happened last time.

Fork or no fork, if it's true Mr Ver is trying to do this to increase his holdings, then he already has a 20% mountain to climb just to bring back value to 2,500. I understand the reasoning behind such a conspiracy, but I don't understand how anyone would do it when so much is at risk.

So is Blockstream. Why is there noone talking about the conflict of interest between Blockstream and Bitcoin Core?

How is Bitcoin Jesus going to compete with Btc's merchant lead?

that is true and the reason is a most simple one.

software developers are no economist.

No, that is demonstrably false.  >:(

Software devs might be no more or no less economists than a refuse collector or supermarket checkout cashier. Likewise, economists might be no more or no less economists than a refuse collector or supermarket checkout cashier...

Surely it does not have to be an 'either or' situation

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ver would also have 300k BU if BTC splits, correct?

The way it seems explained in the links is that there is a way that coin holders can double their coins, same amount on both BTC and BTU. If he has 300k now he will end up with 600k but there is speculation that this Roger Ver bloke has used up a lot of that 300k bitcoin to invest in to other projects.

Having re-read a post I will reply to in a few minutes it seems Roger Ver is here...

Sorry for missing your reply thus not replying earlier. I heard many stories about MtGox and others like them but it seems you got your coins out before they went under. Imagine having all those coins, bitcoin and alike but losing them because they were held on an exchange.

I have just realised you are Roger Ver. First of all, thank you for replying and explaining you seem to be doing what you think is best for bitcoin. I disagree with you when you say you seem to have a better knowledge of how bitcoin came to be used as money rather than investors or supporters that arrived on the scene later but nevertheless I appreciate your honest post and am sure it will be appreciated by whoever reads it. From what you say this seems to about practicality, usability and longevity of bitcoin rather than about one individual that wishes to change the system because of the number of coins he owns and influence he can have. It also seems that this process is not because you want to double your coins accross wallets (albeit temporarily) either.

I wish you success with your coins, well done for spotting a potential blockbuster investment all those years ago when many had not heard of bitcoin. I do not know if that $25k you invested initially was a punt in the dark or a calculated risk but it set you on a path to great riches. If you would like me to remove the thread title indicating you own 300k bitcoin then please let me know and I will do it as you mentioned the number you own is private.

So is the fork definitely going ahead on 1st August 2017? To get various exchanges onboard would be a task in itself but according to the links in the opening post there are plenty that are looking forward to the fork so there is a degree of concensus but it goes both ways there are arguments for the split and and against the split. If it goes ahead I hope it does not cause disruption or uncertainty for investors and merchants.

My crime was "Dealing in Explosives WITHOUT A LICENSE".  I sold store bought fire crackers on ebay,  and my crime was doing it without the right government paperwork.  It was a politically motivated prosecution. Even while I was in prison,  the company I bought the fireworks from, and the manufacturer  were still selling them without a license.  Details here (http://voluntaryist.com/howibecame/rogerver.html#.WWxPadOGN0s).
 

Agree with the quote author TaunSew, what you did was pretty lame, the assumption of virtually unlimited liability to make just a few dollars selling fireworks. It gets even worse, did you not realize the terms of use for any method of shipping stuff for sold  on ebay? In order to ship anything like this if it's ok, means that you have to specially mark and pack the fireworks. If correctly labeled, packed and shipped according to firecode, just the packing and shipping is probably cost more than the product. If you shipped this stuff priority mail or via air, it would be only because the package wasn't properly labeled. Priority mail can go via air. I can see the Feds handing out jail time if some fireworks ended up being shipped by air. 

Since no good deed goes unpunished, to your credit, you might be the reason that the USPO, Fedex, and UPS now every time (correctly so) quiz people if they are shipping any hazmat stuff.

Nowadays, even Li batteries have to go by ocean freight and ground transport.

I'm glad I live I live in a country where people aren't free to ship unmarked HAZMAT by air.

Based on Charlie Lee's twitter it looks like a fork is highly likely. Brace for roller coaster ride.

my opinion is that Ver is nothing but a delusional guy who got rich too easy and too fast.

He has no experience in coding, in economics or anything relevant to the space whatsoever.

All he cares about is money and that is bad for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is to decentralize and give power to the people, not to be managed by one excentric ego who has been in jail already and is only where he is because he somehow got lucky to know it when it was dirty cheap.

I dont trust him or anyone that supports him.

If you are already rich and still play the market and prejudice millions of other people then you are no different than a corrupt minister or CEO of those huge worldwide companies who do anything for more money and power.

 Well i have my popcorn ready if satoshi's BTC or BTU move after the split. That would be nothing short of epic.

Thank you for your reply. If it is true that Roger Ver has no economics experience then it seems he might be making a wrong move with the fork but time will tell. As for his lack of coding skills, I think it is irrelevant when you have hundreds of millions of $US in the bank thanks to bitcoin holdings. Many people share your view and many disagree with it but I have to say that if someone has been in prison it (especially once and especially for a non-violent act and not for a scam) then surely it is not right to hold it against them or to highlight it or to use it as a weapon against them in an intellectual debate.

On the issue of the fork, I am one of the ones that says there is no need to do anything and leaving bitcoin core as is (for now at least) is the best way to go. If and when there is an even wider debate on the issue then it might be appropriate to take steps to try to fork but for now there is no need for it and it seems to me that those who are pushing for a split are basically trying force something now that can be done years down the line with increased consensus and better preparation.

In my opinion the sense of urgency being created around this split is fake, it is hyped up and it is being forced upon everyone even though there is no urgency on hand. If I am wrong then so be it but if I am right the question arises: Why is it being done and who is to benefit from the fork?

Dark days of uncertainty ahead...

Bitcoin unlimited not evrywhere trading ,price is going down, Cryptopia not added.

Hence my previous post where I wrote that dark days of uncertainty lay ahead

Guys, the enemy is AXA - Blockstream, not Roger Ver. Wake up

He want to loose his asset? How he is sure that BTU will be accepted by big exchanger. The only small exchanger recieves then big dump. LOST,  I think he is stupid trader to do that. Why does he join the BTC community. The independence community. 300 K BTC will be worthless.

Well the thing is nobody knows what the future will hold but from is being said about the issue it seems various very large exchanges have accepted (in principal) that they will trade BTU. None have said they will give up trading BTC.

After a few weeks of 1st August fork we will see which one of the two will be the leading block chosen by bitcoin holders. The future with regards to bitcoin is completely uncertain.

Roger said he will probably sell BTC and mine BCC if 2X fork will not happen. I think fork will happen, BCC will die and Roger will be calmed down

 ;D Your analysis and oversimplification makes me chuckle but very nicely and directly put by you

Agree, bitcoin would do just fine without bitcoin.com and even if he dumped his 300k the crash would be temporary and recover in a few days. If hes happy to make a new alt let him do whatever.

I really like and appreciate the way people give their views on this subject.. So open and direct, no holds barred.

I agree with your approach, if someone want to do something let them do it however once should always consider the fact that just because one can do something does not mean they must do it. Restraint and moral obligations should be looked in to as well. In the case of Roger Ver it seems the decision has been made, only a couple of days left to see what happens with the fork.

Thats huge huge amount..  ::) 
So Roger just holding 300k bitcoins or investing in other projects or ICO as well

Bla bla bla.

He gonna choose the best way to grow his money.

Deception is king.

The clock is ticking out. Roger Ver will soon need to show to the world how much he supports his ambitions to hardfork and compete against BTC. We will see if he really sells all of his BTC in exchange of BCC. This is a great opportunity to see if he puts the money where his mouth is or if he is just bullshitting as usual.

Remember that never before this situation has taken place in Bitcoin. We will see a war of whales and we will see where everyone stands, and to my knowledge Roger Ver is the only Bitcoin Cash whale.

Even if he purchases around 4 million BCC for around BTC100,000 (at a rate of BTC0.025 per coin), it will create a sharp demand and a lot of other traders will follow this and purchase BCC for themselves. In the end, Ver will be left with 25% of all the BCC in circulation, in addition to more than 1% of the Bitcoins in total available supply.

Some people say he invested heavily in various coins by selling huge amounts of his BTC coins but that has not been confirmed.

You have repeated this longevity argument frequently, and it is sad to hear because it is a kind of sign of insecurity to attempt to argue longevity status.  Bitcoin is not proof of stake.  Thank god.



That is good for you, but does not make you god because you had invested with such passion and leverage - a kind of gamble that paid off handsomely, but you should not be a bully about it.. even if you happen to be one of the largest bitcoin holders...  whether you own 100k or 300k..


at least you are humble enough to admit that.  You should also have respect for your elders, if you are trying to play status games.


You admit that you are arguing with a person that is older and smarter than you, but still you want to try to denigrate him on some supposed money theory, and you are coming off as trying to be smart about something that you could not really understand, except for asserting that you understand some simplified version of your idea of money.



misplaced and weak arguments of causation.. correlation does not equal causation, we all know that, right?  You are really engaging in a personalized and emotional battle and really not connecting certain bigger picture matters, including basic concepts of decentralization.



Makes little sense.. because the facts seem to clearly establish spam attacks and then you trying to act as if the spam attacks are reflective of some kind of organic useage of bitcoin.  Your assertions do not line up with the actual facts.


You well know that there are lots of experiments running out there and bitcoin is the real deal.  Further you likely realize that seg wit is going to resolve a lot of these matters, so that seems to be scaring your to death regarding your spinning of facts and what is going to happen once segwit is locked in and then activated.

I support Bitcoin Cash and here's why.

Look at this chart https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#dominance-percentage it says that from February 21 up to June 17 Bitcoin market share has dropped from 87% to 38! Doesn'i it bother you people at all? That's why price went down to 1700$, PEOPLE STOPPED USING BITCOIN, because of the lack of credibility- namely slow transactions and high as fuck fees. After that price returned to ~2700$ ONLY because of speculations around Segwit2x. It's the only reason, bBitcoin  is dying and u all know it.

You are right but people here are blind. Blockstream want to control the transfactions and fees by sidechains, thats why they want a slow bitcoin. I can't believe they don't see that and much more behind (AXA).

Yeah, another nutjob with distorted facts.

The reality of the matter is that various cryptos were pumped to hell, including ethereum, and during that time bitcoin was at all time highs too, but the pump jobs were growing at a faster rate.  That is hardly evidence of a dying bitcoin... so get your selective facts straight instead of trying to spin a situation in some pie in the sky wish.

Second, did you even notice that all of a sudden, as soon as segwit2x was signaling intention, the mempool back log went to nearly zero and accordingly, the transaction fees and the and the delays went down to normal levels too.  Get in touch with reality and stop citing misinformation and fantasy to support your stupid ass theories about bitcoin supposedly being broken.  Roger cites this same kind of pie in the sky nonsense that is out of touch with reality; however, the fact that a whole bunch of you big blocker nutjobs are citing the same wrong facts does not make them any more true... and don't come out saying that there are various versions of truth because there are not.

The fact of the matter is that there is no need for increasing the blocksize limit, yet, and down the road we see how segwit plays out, then maybe at some point (maybe a few years from now) there will be a need to increase the blocksize limit.  Gotta take one step at a time, and the first step is the bullish as fuck situation that segwit is soon to lock-in and subsequently activate.. which is very powerful for the building on of bitcoin and making bitcoin the only fucking coin that maintains a decentralized set up - in spite of the misinformation of the big blocker nutjobs and the forkers who are continuing to want to deceive and propaganda with their shitty ass and seemingly coercion intended hardfork.

   First things first. You're an imbecile.

   And second, if altcoins were pumped, don't you think it's because people disappointed in Bitcoin started to draw their bitcoins into Ethereum and whatever? You're insulting people and obviously think yourself to be so high and mighty, but u've never cited any reasonable facts to support your dumbass position on matter at hand.

Something will replace Core and alt traders know it... the only question is what and when.

Yeah right.  You should look in the mirror newbie. 

You are likely paid to make these dumbass lame theories that are not based in reality. 

First of all your theories are based upon incorrect facts, and then second you engage in spinning of those lame "facts" in order to arrive at your pie in the sky conclusion that bitcoin is either broken or dead... Nonsense.  Bitcoin is a long way from either being broken or dead, and these are bullish as fuck times for bitcoin and the greatness of segwit.

Sorry for your loss and your inability to convince anyone except those who are equally in a fantasy way of thinking.

OOOHH BOY "Greatness of Segwit". It sounds like "The Glory of God" or smth like that. U're fanatic, not a reasonable at least sentient being

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO176mdSTG0    Look  at this, dumbass SEGWIT BITCOIN IS NOT BITCOIN AT ALL it's in definition

yes newbie, I have been participating in these forums for about 3.5 years, and I could have given a ratt's ass about any of this scaling discussion or the direction, until about late 2015 when nutjobs like yourself started coming out with a variety of technical arguments to suggest that bitcoin was broken and needs on chain scaling solutions, blah blah blah.. starting with XT then classic, then bu then hoping for the 2x part of the NYA.. and then now desparation with a stupid-ass hardfork with bitcoin cash.

NO, I am not part of any religion.. it is called facts and reason.. rather than your pie in the sky assumptions about bitcoin being broken.. and your desire to get 2x and hardfork, but really you guys do not give any ratt's ass about the technicalities , because you are emotional nutjobs who are just seeking to change governance by working outside the core system and getting emotional and personal about core.. rather than recognizing core as a open democratic and merit based system.. but your nutjobs cannot work within reason.... so they act like bullies by employing ongoing threats in order to attempt to get their way....


so, yep, seg wit will bringing lot's of good things to bitcoin and allow for a lot of possibilities to employ various tools that might not be directly on the blockchain but they are tied to the blockchain in various ways.. .. a great and powerful thing for bitcoin to make bitcoin powerful, decentralized and more difficult for TPTB to disrupt in any kind of way... Hopefully you are going to be able to join in rather than just be fighting about nonsense and engaging in ongoing whiney attempts to undermine bitcoin in ways that are not based on reality.   

Very well put and very articulate. Am impressed with your presentation of your opinions. Thank you.

Well, I am not happy about the fork but things will become very clear in a matter of hours....

   About this. IMO this might have happened coz many people stopped using bitcoin and mempool was not so stocked, fees reduced accordingly.

You are living in a dreamland, and stating facts that are counter to real logic and dynamics.

There have been all kinds of usage in the past few weeks, and the mempool remains without much of any backup and with very low fees.  The spamming stopped a few weeks ago.. not a coincidence, but big blocker nutjob miners stopped aiming their mining power at attacking the network... at least temporarily.

So basically you're saying that all these delays were due to "testing" of the system. Can u explain me - has 1Mb block enoughcapacity  for at least 1/8 of population of Earth to use Bitcoin without interruptions? Given that no one is testing Bitcoin network? Cause if it is, then Core was coerced to implement Segwit2x? Was it blackmailing?

Peter Rizun says that definition of Segwit is contradicting the very foundation of Bitcoin, that was laid out by Satoshi himself. What's your opinion on this matter?

I did not say "testing".  I said spamming.  It is a form of attempted sabotage to create an impression that the blocks are full when they are not.



How the fuck do I know?  We take one step at a time, and segwit seems to be the next step and is bullish as fuck. 




Core has not been coerced to do shit.  Big blocker nutjobs have been engaged in various kinds of sabotage in order to employ coercive tools, hostage taking and terrorism.

segwit appears to have gone through because of various combination of compromise procedures.  The 2x portion does not have any kind of locking in method, and that is why the big blocker nutjobs remain incensed.. because segwit is coming to bitcoin and there is likely going to be less and less and less justification to employ any kind of 2x software in the near future, at least in the next couple of years, and maybe longer.

But the big blocker nutjobs will continue to whine, even though they are going to have their own useless and likely buggy-ass fork.




Peter Rizun is another one of those bigblocker nutjobs who have been living in a fantasy land in the past couple of years, engaging in a large variety of arguments to get more say in bitcoin and to get the blocks increased.. but in the end, he doesn't have enough convincing power to get core to go along with some of his ideas, because his ideas are deficient in a variety of ways.. and when you get down to attempting to rely on authority, such as what Satoshi, supposedly wanted, then you are employing status rather than actual meritorious arguments and real technical importance.  Those are a bunch of continued attempts at technical diversion from guys who are unwilling and unable to work within the existing core system to get their arguments adopted, so they resort to bullying and terrorism tactics.

"We define an electronic coin as a chain of digital signatures"  https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

And Segwit is removing this signatures from Bitcoin into separate application. I wonder if it remains it remains Bitcoin or smth. else? Satoshi did it one way and Core is doing something completely different.

So let's say straightforward: BIP148 undoing Bitcoin into smth else. Bitcoin is being destroyed with its place being taken by smth completely different. Why on earth, under suck circumstances, should we adopt this shit, instead of just increasing block size of what we all know and love as Bitcoin, which main definition is, as u know: "electronic coin as a chain of digital signatures"

What do you think about this, my dear friend?

Sounds like a funny thread...  ;D

Senpai, tell me how the chart will look like in august. Although I believe strongly in BTC, I also believe there are better alternatives out there and/or to come in the future. Bitcoin isn't the one coin to rule them all, it's just the first building stone in something far bigger.

Being in BTC for years, I am reading this forum since 2014, enjoying the interesting posts, especially in the WO thread.
I never felt the wish to post anything.

However, recently, I see many members of the BTC community arguing wildly, I see name calling, and hostility been spread.
Yes, people were always throwing shit at each other. But I find this shit throwing to be at an ATH. (Like the BTC price :))

I mean it's just a group of people being unhappy with the ongoing BTC development.
So they want to use this open source project in their own way, by forking off / splitting the chain and making use of their preferred parameters.
Aren't they doing with it what an open source project is made for?: To use it in any kind of way you like, and to play around with it..?
This is an (historical) experiment, and it's still in its infancy. So I'm very happy about any competition of ideas in the market.

If there is disagreement about further development, anyone is free to split/fork off the chain, at anytime.
I see this as the beauty of this system, and as a strong reason why Bitcoin is able to provide a healthy competition of the best ideas.

If BTC is so fragile that it might suffer, because of a forked off BCC, or that it might be even outperformed by it ... ok...good

What is to loose?  Any btc holder here can be part of the established, AND the new chain...  by just doing nothing... plainly hold the new free coin that is said to be worthless by so many anyways..

If BCC goes down like many seem to think, so what?
And is a possible price volatility in orig. BTC bad? Since when? If someone wants a stable investment Bitcoin is def. not the place.

May the best and most secure chain succeed.
If it wins against Visa. etc, everyone here is still be considered an early adopter.
So what's to worry anyways..

Your appeal to authority should not carry much if any weight.  Do you realize that Satoshi has not participated in anything related to bitcoin since sometime in 2010.  He pretty much vanished.  Whether he is dead or not does not matter because bitcoin is no longer about one person, but instead a product of a community and such community is going down the segwit road.  The current status of bitcoin includes segwit, so sure either you can work to attempt to improve or to evolve segwit, but the consensus is segwit and that is the new and improved bitcoin (whether you personally believe it is improved or not)

And, by the way, this segwit is not "completely different"; it is an evolution and a new phase of bitcoin.. Is it going to have plusses and minuses, possibly, but arguing about whether a done deal should not be a done deal, seems a big fucking waste of time, because it is here and part of our current status quo bitcoin.



BIP148 did not activate or go into effect.  BIP91 was locked in before BIP148, and maybe you are referring to BIP141?  Anyhow, BIP141 (seg wit) is in the process of locking in and then activating.. that is right.



It's already locking in and activating, what can "we" do about it?  It already has overwhelming consensus, so why fight it?  just work with it, and if you don't like it, then find another more suitable coin and invest in that.  You can choose the extent to which you invest in bitcoin, and if you believe that bitcoin has become less valuable, then you can direct your finances towards other projects and even diversify a bit.

I personally see no reason to take my money out of bitcoin or to consider bitcoin as diminishing in value because of seg wit.  I consider segwit to be very good for bitcoin, and it has pretty much been uncontroversially good for bitcoin on a technical level since it's late 2015 introduction.  Sure, later  in 2016, the big blocker nutjobs begun to spin segwit as if it were some kind of controversy, and the fact of the matter is that it is very widely received, except for by fringe elements that are trying to distort it and to describe seg wit as some kind of monster because they are merely in the ongoing process of being disgruntled and spreading of disinformation and emotions and ongoingly wanting to be involved in the direction of bitcoin in spite of their lack of an ability or a willingness to attempt to work within the open and democratic systems that are already existing through core.

I don't know how the charts are going to look in August.  My practice is to buy bitcoin as the prices go down and to sell as the prices go up.  

You can diversify your monies however you want in various projects, ICOs or alts - maybe you will make money and maybe you will not.  

I think that it remains a good idea and practice to continue to invest in bitcoin and to figure out various strategies that keeps bitcoin as part of your financial and crypto.. but of course it is up to you to determine how much of a percentage you want to put in bitcoin as compared with other cryptos or other investments that you might consider.

Oh, of course with any investment you have to consider both upside and downside potential of any project, and liquidation avenues.  Of course, bitcoin might seem over priced and other cryptos might appear as if they do not have a downside, and you might erroneously get caught up in comparisons and concepts of unit cost without knowing some of the manipulations that may be going on in the background... .. So yeah, it is not always easy to determine how much risk to take or how much upside potential one project might have as compared with another project. 

Great to see so much energy and passionate debate going on here. Well the Bitcoin fork time has arrived so time will tell.

Huh?  Isn't the fork time noon, and not midnight?  So 12 more hours, no?

The nice thing about Bitcoin is it that means absolutely nothing to the Future Bitcoin. It does me quite a lot to his future, where as he could go from having one of the most valuable coins in the world, to having one of the least valuable coins in the world. But the fact is he's not a minor never has been.

The worst that he could do was to dump on one of the exchanges which would create a daily possibly a week-long issue for one of the clients but guess what it's going to recover. This isn't like Fiat, the sheer existence of it in your possession is basically meaningless, if you're not a miner and you don't have a mining Farm did you have no power.

Still waiting on him putting his money where his mouth is.... I knew all the shills were talking the talk, but not walking the walk. bcc = bitcoincrash

It seems we will not have to wait long to see if he will do it. The time of the fork is upon us.

So did Roger Ver sell ALL his Bitcoin holding and now holds only Bitcoin Cash?

If he believed in his project then he would have done it on day one of the fork but I doubt he did it. Now he has as many Bitcoin Cash as he does Bitcoin and is even more richer than before.

Apart from making multi-millionaire whales even wealthier and disrupting the community, Bitcoin Cash did nothing and brought nothing new to the crypto world. What a waste.

Taxation is theft