Bitcoin Forum

Other => Beginners & Help => Topic started by: JimCGSavings on May 14, 2013, 11:17:37 PM



Title: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 14, 2013, 11:17:37 PM
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: ocmoho on May 14, 2013, 11:26:31 PM
do you mean an actual wallet?


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: ironcross360 on May 14, 2013, 11:30:44 PM
The problem is that the price may go up or down, Do you have any kids? Or trusted family members, Or even Trusted friends?
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Abacinate on May 14, 2013, 11:31:54 PM
I will refrain from commenting on your personal situation, as you're not likely going to be happy with what I have to say.

At any rate, yes paper wallets are quite secure. There's also Armory, but I'm not as familiar with how that works.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 14, 2013, 11:33:35 PM
do you mean an actual wallet?

A printed out Bitcoin wallet. Laminated so I don't have to worry about fading, water damage, etc.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 14, 2013, 11:52:51 PM
I will refrain from commenting on your personal situation, as you're not likely going to be happy with what I have to say.

At any rate, yes paper wallets are quite secure. There's also Armory, but I'm not as familiar with how that works.

I doubt there's anything you can say that I wouldn't agree with. Unfortunately, early onset dementia caught us off guard, drained our savings paying off medical debt, and left us in a situation where we have to participate or lose the ability to pay our mortgage, bills, etc. And the rules are strict. ANY "extra income" in the checking or savings account will disqualify her. We are expected to live government check to government check.

I'm hoping cold storage will be a safe way to save up for the inevitable appliance repairs, car payments when the one we paid off finally dies, house deductibles for the bi-annual hail storm roof replacements we get here in Oklahoma. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: jamesgarfield on May 15, 2013, 12:00:42 AM
Yes Bitcoins are a very good saving method.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: QuinnHarris on May 15, 2013, 12:03:59 AM
Is it possible to setup a special needs trust where assets are placed in a trust possibly managed by you that can be used for specific medical reasons but won't be considered for Medicaid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_needs_trust

A printed wallet can work.  I personally wouldn't find it to be significantly more secure or reliable than a flash drive.  Personally if I was paranoid I would use both.

Bitcoins at this point is a risky investment and I wouldn't suggest buying more bitcoins than you can afford to loose.  I expect it will either be a very good savings method or go to zero with little in between.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 15, 2013, 12:19:16 AM
The problem is that the price may go up or down, Do you have any kids? Or trusted family members, Or even Trusted friends?

The most ironic thing I've had to do is ask them to stop sending us money because it caused us to exceed the allowed income limit. As for holding money for us, that becomes it's own issue. Everybody is supposed to report income, savings, gifts, etc. I'd rather take the risks myself.

This could actually meet the needs of quite a few people we know in the Early Onset and Care Giver communities. If we can get past the moral irony of the whole situation.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 15, 2013, 12:23:42 AM
Is it possible to setup a special needs trust where assets are placed in a trust possibly managed by you that can be used for specific medical reasons but won't be considered for Medicaid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_needs_trust

A printed wallet can work.  I personally wouldn't find it to be significantly more secure or reliable than a flash drive.  Personally if I was paranoid I would use both.

Bitcoins at this point is a risky investment and I wouldn't suggest buying more bitcoins than you can afford to loose.  I expect it will either be a very good savings method or go to zero with little in between.

Thanks for the link! I understand the risk, but as long as it's not considered income or asset, and I can store in a secure manner, I don't see it as any riskier than any other investment we're not allowed to make.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: acne on May 15, 2013, 01:12:17 AM
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

Sorry to hear about your wife.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: jamesgarfield on May 15, 2013, 01:21:51 AM
The problem is that the price may go up or down, Do you have any kids? Or trusted family members, Or even Trusted friends?
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

yep this was exactly what I was thinking.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 15, 2013, 02:10:23 AM

Sorry to hear about your wife.

Thanks. I'm wondering if I can help other Caregivers in the same situation invest in Bitcoin as well, if they are willing to take the risk. Personally, I believe Bitcoin is an excellent investment. Maybe Asic Miner's BTC-TC currency stock exchange would be a safer investment. I'll keep researching here. Not easy. You all speak way over my head most of the time. Steep learning curve at my age, but worth it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: acne on May 15, 2013, 02:48:20 AM
Interesting thread.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: evilscoop on May 15, 2013, 02:54:51 AM
armory will give you paper wallets to print, and has a good walk through to make a cold storage wallet...


i wish you luck


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 15, 2013, 03:01:44 AM
armory will give you paper wallets to print, and has a good walk through to make a cold storage wallet...
i wish you luck

Abacinate mention Armory as well. Sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll check it out.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: shankopotamus on May 15, 2013, 03:31:18 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. As many have already stated, while a physical paper (laminated) wallet is a good way to keep your bitcoins secure, "betting the farm" on a savings of strictly bitcoin is probably not the smartest move right now. If you have a coinbase account, two-factor authentication is another good way to get that "warm fuzzy". All you need is an app called "Authy" - research it at www.coinbase.com if you've never heard of this before.

I wish you the best my friend.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: evilscoop on May 15, 2013, 03:33:52 AM
also worth a read :-
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17240.0


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 03:40:59 AM
While the info about your wife (if true) is sad, you are not doing the right thing here. The reason the gov does not give out free money to people with large bank accounts is because those people can pay for expenses themselves. You should pay what you can, as unfair as it may seem to you, and then if what you have left is not enough you can then apply for gov handouts.

If you want to be greedy and take/keep every penny you earn then get a saftey deposit box and keep your cash in it.

This is simple people. Bitcoin is not needed to hide wealth. This has been happening since before there were computers. You don't need a big mattress to hide your money. Bitcoin is not the answer to your "problem". Your problem is that you won't pay what society has said you should pay for your wifes care from your own pocket first. You want to take my/our money first.

Im not trying to start a debate about the law that says you being broke because of medical expenses is fair.

I personally think this is often totaly unfair. I am a "socialist" who thinks that medical care is a basic right. I am willing to pay my share for your wifes care. But we "socialists" are becoming a small minority in a greed driven world. I am willing to bet you are like 80%+ of other humans today and you would be calling foul on your situation if you were not in it. You complain about high taxes, but the fact is if you want your free money, someone else is paying 2x what they should be to fund your lifestyle. We buy your bitcoins. People like you who hide money from being taxed fairly are the reason why taxes are so damned high.

Stop polluting our forum with this pseudo-illegal bs. You don't need bitcoins to illegally hide wealth.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: evilscoop on May 15, 2013, 03:56:43 AM
sorry but stfu exo your talking crap...

while its tru this could be exploited by someone with wealth, sadly its joe soap just scraping by that gets caught out by this crap...



Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 04:30:03 AM
sorry but stfu exo your talking crap...

while its tru this could be exploited by someone with wealth, sadly its joe soap just scraping by that gets caught out by this crap...



Troll Wars, Episode 3

STFU? Really? Did you read my post? No?

Read it again kid.

I feel for "joe soap" (is he a relative of "joe sixpack" or "joe the plumber" because he sounds like one of those tea party anti-tax shills) but I think I made a good point and for you to dismiss my post with a blanket "stfu" is as childish as it gets.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: evilscoop on May 15, 2013, 04:38:50 AM
it was 4am and ive been up all night....best yer gonna get


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. As many have already stated, while a physical paper (laminated) wallet is a good way to keep your bitcoins secure, "betting the farm" on a savings of strictly bitcoin is probably not the smartest move right now. If you have a coinbase account, two-factor authentication is another good way to get that "warm fuzzy". All you need is an app called "Authy" - research it at www.coinbase.com if you've never heard of this before.

I wish you the best my friend.


There's no farm to bet. I've looked at Coinbase and it does appear to be one of the safer US based exchanges, if that can be said of a US based exchange. The two-factor authentication is an app? Our budget doesn't include smartphones. Besides, I'm old, and I hate those teeny-tiny screens and keyboards you youngsters all use on them phone thingys. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 12:54:38 AM
also worth a read :-
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17240.0

That's the Linux USB2 stick wallet? Did that and it ran really really slow on my system. I remember thinking "god somebody please hack my system and take any coins on here so I never have to access this again". (grin) I'm oldschool tech. I've always relied on the fact that if worse comes to worse, I can format c: and start over. But wrapping my brain around value in the form of a bunch of ascii, and how to keep that secure is messing with me. I'll keep reading and I'm sure I'll get it eventually.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 12:58:25 AM
Sorry to hear about your wife.

Thanks for the sentiment, but it's just life. Until the singularity at least. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 01:16:05 AM
While the info about your wife (if true) is sad, you are not doing the right thing here...Stop polluting our forum with this pseudo-illegal bs. You don't need bitcoins to illegally hide wealth.

Let me start with how much I love the phrase "pseudo-illegal bs." This thread does seem to be turning into a sympathy massage. Didn't want that. Was basically looking for reassurance that if I decided to invest in Bitcoins before I fully understood the tech, paper wallet was the safest way to go. As for the rest of your opinions about me and my situation, you're free to have them and express them. But I think I will continue to pollute your forum (at least the newbie area where it seems to be on topic) with mine. Can't find my kite at the moment and I'm bored. (grin)

I started as a rational-anarchist and swerved into a jacksonian (google John Ringo if your interested). The reality of our situation has turned me into someone trying to survive the destruction of my financial class by a government seemingly determined to use ever more blatant tactics to continue the rapid transfer of wealth from everyone else to the wealthiest few, at both the federal and state level. Birds gotta fly, people gotta eat. And let me finish by at least using the word "Bitcoin"at least once, so I don't feel this response is completely off topic. Even for a noob. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: cal_guy on May 16, 2013, 01:42:20 AM
Seems like a safe deposit box would be a better bet. You could also consider insurance on the appliances you need, and apparently metal shingles.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: FlyLord on May 16, 2013, 02:00:27 AM
So you're aware the value of bitcoins is probably more volatile than the stock markets? And that unlike the stock market it's not guaranteed to have an overall upward trend? You'd probably have an easier time putting your money elsewhere ...


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 02:02:54 AM
Seems like a safe deposit box would be a better bet. You could also consider insurance on the appliances you need, and apparently metal shingles.

Any cash in a safe deposit box is counted as income. Expenditure is not income. If the government does not consider Bitcoin a currency or asset(at least when held by an individual), but merely an expenditure, then I can "pseudo-legally" own them without violating the savings rule. At least until they close that loophole.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: DMIS on May 16, 2013, 02:05:23 AM
So you're aware the value of bitcoins is probably more volatile than the stock markets? And that unlike the stock market it's not guaranteed to have an overall upward trend? You'd probably have an easier time putting your money elsewhere ...

+1


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 02:09:26 AM
So you're aware the value of bitcoins is probably more volatile than the stock markets? And that unlike the stock market it's not guaranteed to have an overall upward trend? You'd probably have an easier time putting your money elsewhere ...

I live with this twisted reality, so I guess that's why everyone is missing it. Stocks, Bonds, etc., are all considered either new assets or income. We are not allowed to exceed our set monthly income or she loses medicaid. We can't afford or even access the services she needs to stay alive, without it. Hence the interest in something that only holds "potential" value where the government is concerned.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: FlyLord on May 16, 2013, 02:21:33 AM
So have you considered opening an IRA? Some IRA's are tax sheltered and from the sounds of it you should also be able to get the tax refunds that come with it. Given how the market is reaching records high it's probably the best place to put your money without negatively affecting your financial situation. You mentioned medicaid, so I'm assuming you're in the US.

You should be able to put around 5K into an IRA in a given year (the cap changes).


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: zippy_doo on May 16, 2013, 02:31:25 AM
personally I would get a different insurance plan


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 16, 2013, 02:48:39 AM
So have you considered opening an IRA? Some IRA's are tax sheltered and from the sounds of it you should also be able to get the tax refunds that come with it. Given how the market is reaching records high it's probably the best place to put your money without negatively affecting your financial situation. You mentioned medicaid, so I'm assuming you're in the US.

You should be able to put around 5K into an IRA in a given year (the cap changes).

I'll look into it. If I can set it up so that funding goes directly into it without sitting in our bank account for any taxable period of time, it might pass the test. Thanks. Yes, we're in the U.S.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JENNIFER_SUSAN on May 16, 2013, 06:34:46 PM
While the info about your wife (if true) is sad, you are not doing the right thing here. The reason the gov does not give out free money to people with large bank accounts is because those people can pay for expenses themselves. You should pay what you can, as unfair as it may seem to you, and then if what you have left is not enough you can then apply for gov handouts.

If you want to be greedy and take/keep every penny you earn then get a saftey deposit box and keep your cash in it.

This is simple people. Bitcoin is not needed to hide wealth. This has been happening since before there were computers. You don't need a big mattress (http://adjustableairbeds.org/) to hide your money. Bitcoin is not the answer to your "problem". Your problem is that you won't pay what society has said you should pay for your wifes care from your own pocket first. You want to take my/our money first.

Im not trying to start a debate about the law that says you being broke because of medical expenses is fair.

I personally think this is often totaly unfair. I am a "socialist" who thinks that medical care is a basic right. I am willing to pay my share for your wifes care. But we "socialists" are becoming a small minority in a greed driven world. I am willing to bet you are like 80%+ of other humans today and you would be calling foul on your situation if you were not in it. You complain about high taxes, but the fact is if you want your free money, someone else is paying 2x what they should be to fund your lifestyle. We buy your bitcoins. People like you who hide money from being taxed fairly are the reason why taxes are so damned high.

Stop polluting our forum with this pseudo-illegal bs. You don't need bitcoins to illegally hide wealth.

i agree with you, 'Exoskeleton'. We shouldn't hide our wealth illegally.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Galahad on May 16, 2013, 06:50:17 PM
The thing is some people save all their lives and put it into accounts for rainy days and some people blow it all. But the people who do the right thing have to pay for care homes and medical bills until there's nothing left and the others just get it all for free. Any inheritance for the kids is destroyed and irresponsibility is rewarded. I support the OP in his decision to put some away where the tax man can't get it.

Of course if he was a retired GP and had a barn full of money I'd not be keep on the idea as he can then afford the bill without much of a loss to himself.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: aymar_est on May 16, 2013, 06:52:21 PM
Forget it if you think short term.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Peter Lambert on May 16, 2013, 06:55:56 PM
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

I believe I suggested using bitcoins in this manner sometime in 2011. Maybe I can find the post ... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9879.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9879.0)

You just have to be careful how you make withdrawals from your savings. I don't know how much detail they go into when reviewing your case, but if you have to turn in a monthly bank statement or something like that, it might raise some eyebrows if you have a bunch of unexplained deposits from Dwolla, that would look like income.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 16, 2013, 07:29:58 PM
Well thanks everybody for not taking me to war on my own little rant. JimCGSavings, feel free and continue this thread all you want. Im not the forum police.  :D  We did have a few people on here trying to speak in code about using bitcoins to obtain drugs and worse. Money laundering in all its variations is not prohibited from discussion, but when someone starts asking for advice on how to bend/break the law...you know. Im sure there are websites for that stuff.

Of course we could lower current tax rates for every american and double social spending at the same time by drawing down the military, and closing loopholes, but this is not intended to be a political debate. As a US citizen who makes in the lower five figures I understand the urge to dodge taxes. I just don't want the US to be the next Greece, you know  ;D

Back on topic, I think we all agree that keeping cash somewhere undeclared in cash is better than in bitcoins. Hiding your wealth in bitcoins is the same thing as buying 10 1950's strat guitars, and selling them much later. Items like the right vintage guitars would probably be a safer bet honestly. The problem here is someday you will need to get the money back into cash. When you sell your guitars/bitcoin your obligated to report this as income. Ways around this, yes. Legal to do...



Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: evilscoop on May 16, 2013, 10:31:26 PM
/me bows to exo
i agree we need to make sure the forum never turns into a silk road :D


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 16, 2013, 11:08:59 PM
WOW just read this thread, and people like this cause problems for not only people who pay taxes, but for bitcoin coin people. I like how he is trying to get out of a loophole by doing something called "Fraud". I would think twice about committing such an act against the people like me who pay taxes so you can use medicated and our community in bitcoin who will just like the tax evaders will hurt bitcoin.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: redlight on May 16, 2013, 11:17:00 PM
Its a great way to save value.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: BTCoder on May 16, 2013, 11:40:06 PM
He is talking mad crap, I agree :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 04:40:54 AM
i agree with you, 'Exoskeleton'. We shouldn't hide our wealth illegally.

I agree with you JENNIFER_SUSAN. We should only hide our wealth legally. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 04:55:55 AM
Investing in a few Bitcoins is a long term risk that I am willing to take. That doesn't mean I'm interested in engaging in any illegal activity. And we pay our taxes. But the assumptions have provided this old geek with some amusement.  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 17, 2013, 05:08:21 AM
Investing in a few Bitcoins is a long term risk that I am willing to take. That doesn't mean I'm interested in engaging in any illegal activity. And we pay our taxes. But the assumptions have provided this old geek with some amusement.  ::)

No but you have to declare your wealth, otherwise it is "FRAUD" and that is illegal. So you are engaging in illegal activities, when you hide your bitcoins from government. I pay myself in bitcoins, and if I didn't declare that as income, I could save so much money on taxes, but I don't cause that is "FRAUD" and it is illegal. Just do the right thing, and tell the government otherwise, karma will get you and your wife or maybe it already has...


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 05:11:15 AM
...and tell the government otherwise, karma will get you and your wife or maybe it already has...

Dude. That is so wrong. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 17, 2013, 05:14:17 AM
...and tell the government otherwise, karma will get you and your wife or maybe it already has...

Dude. That is so wrong. (grin)

Well people who abuse the system are wrong, and make me sick. I could be paying for your medicate and in that case, I be extremely upset that my money is helping you get bitcoins.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 05:26:49 AM
Well people who abuse the system are wrong, and make me sick. I could be paying for your medicate and in that case, I be extremely upset that my money is helping you get bitcoins.

Let me ease your worried mind then. I don't get Medicaid. I don't have health insurance. When I get sick, I get to get over it. There. Feel better? :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 17, 2013, 05:28:11 AM
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

I am so sorry for you and your wife's current situation.  You sound like you are good man with your priorities in good order.  Sometimes we don't have the opportunity to pick our pitch before getting beaned in the head by a high hard one.

I have a pretty good understanding of what you are trying to accomplish.  In general terms, this is what I would do if so inclined.  

3 BTC wallets:

1. online wallet that you and you alone hold the private keys.  This is used to shield funds from potential troubles with the exchanges used to make purchases. Multiple addresses in this wallet are used for different purposes. This is the billfold you use to make day to day buys of goods offered for coin.
2. exchange wallet with "emergency fund" value.  Large swings, the need to convert to fiat, and unpredictable income potential are the principal reasons or this wallet.  This and the online wallet makes you liquid in terms of fiat.
3. Armory/paper/offline wallet with savings. This is to protect your coin from both you and others.
3a. Cash in prepaid credit cards, dwolla, under the mattress paper, gift cards, precious metals, and other items that hold value or appreciate that stay off the balance sheet that government agencies inquire about when applying for assistance.

I am not for hiding income or assets to avoid legitimate tax liability.  I have no issue with hiding assets to get much needed assistance.  It sucks to have to bend the rules in order to survive.

Those of you piling on this gentleman have no clue what it is like to go from making a wage that provides you with a comfortable living to making nothing; yet not being able to qualify for assistance programs due to some relatively meager holdings.  Certain programs prohibit owning a car, having a small savings account, or having more than a few hundred dollars in a checking account. I've had people roll into my former business with a purse full of EBT cards and un-cashed entitlement checks worth thousands.  All the while those checks and EBTs were carried in a LV wallet, by a person wearing prada, carrying LV bags, and driving a Mercedes.  I do not think the OP fits this mold.

A person that worked all their life can't get much needed help because of a 401K, IRA, a savings account, a car payment, and a 3/2 suburban home that is being foreclosed on should not be excluded from receiving public aid.  Certainly not because someone got sick.  Have some compassion and understanding.

Sending good vibes your way sir.  Peace.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: freedomno1 on May 17, 2013, 05:30:49 AM
do you mean an actual wallet?

A printed out Bitcoin wallet. Laminated so I don't have to worry about fading, water damage, etc.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=186007.0
Evil wallets are available if you don't mind :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 17, 2013, 05:38:15 AM
Well people who abuse the system are wrong, and make me sick. I could be paying for your medicate and in that case, I be extremely upset that my money is helping you get bitcoins.

Let me ease your worried mind then. I don't get Medicaid. I don't have health insurance. When I get sick, I get to get over it. There. Feel better? :)

I hope the government finds out about this, and what you are trying to do, and puts you in jail for 5yrs and your wife in home. You deserve to see a cell. "Fraud" is serious and government "Fraud" is the worst in my opinion. You think your stealing from the government when in turn your stealing out of my pockets. Your a piece of scum.

I am not for hiding income or assets to avoid legitimate tax liability.

Ohhh your not?

I have no issue with hiding assets to get much needed assistance.  It sucks to have to bend the rules in order to survive.

They are viewed as the same crime. So yeah, another stupid person on the forums can you both leave, people like this make me so sick.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 17, 2013, 05:41:51 AM
I've managed to lower my blood pressure without any medication using this Doctors advise. He also has workable ways to treat brain diseases.

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/09/12/master-list-ray-peat-phd-interviews/  

Do share the medical breakthrough that not only removes amyloid plaques and white matter scarring associated with dementia BUT restores damaged neurons to their former level of function.  That's some world changing information that you are apparently keeping to yourself.  I see a Nobel Prize in your future if you'd only come off your secret.

Prevention in your 30's and 40's is one thing.  Correcting damage in an immunologically privileged area such as the central nervous system is quite another.

I'm appalled by some of the responses in this thread.

It's not like he asked how to hide proceeds from KP, heroin sales, or human trafficking.  This guys wife just might currently be urinating on the front door while attempting to flush the doorknob. Not to mention her grandchildren now scare her, along with going to the supermarket she shopped at for the past 30 years, and friends' houses are haunted with strangers.  

Without compassion and empathy, money has no value.  Neither does Bitcoin.  Some things money can not buy. Character is obviously one of them.

 >:(I'm going to go vomit after reading this thread.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 05:54:08 AM
...It's not like he asked how to hide proceeds from KP, heroine trafficking, or human trafficking...  

Dang. I knew I forgot something. (grin) If you can't laugh, take Xanax. About .25mg PRN works for me. It also helps to have grandchildren. They say the darndest things. And no, this is not my grampa's coat. It's mine. Now if only my thrift store took Bitcoin. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 17, 2013, 06:08:19 AM
i agree with you, 'Exoskeleton'. We shouldn't hide our wealth illegally.

I agree with you JENNIFER_SUSAN. We should only hide our wealth legally. :)

Come to the US. Marry the love of your life. Work your tail off for a few assets. Experience ONE life altering calamity such as your soul mate losing the ability to care for themselves. Try buying health insurance at an advanced age or having a chronic debilitating condition.  The premiums rival a Bentley payment...for life.  The only thing you drive is your loved one to doctor's appointments with borrowed gas money.

Watch how quickly your mind changes.

Sure, the OP may be FOS.  Imagine for one minute that he is not. 

Now imagine that you are the OP. 

If you do not have this capacity in your being, then you are little more than parasite without conscience or purpose other than to feed on others.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 17, 2013, 09:30:45 AM
Just wanted to say I did not mean for the negative view points to become so strong in this thread. I don't think your an evil person at all. I don't even know enough to judge if what your doing is the wrong thing for your situation. I beleive in compasion and by all means do what you need to survive. I actually believe in a socialist free health care system. 100% free. I just know that paying fair taxes is a part of that system I believe in. The current system in the US is not fair at all though...

Yes, to a large degree I was just talking s#it  :D


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Peter Lambert on May 17, 2013, 01:49:29 PM
I actually believe in a socialist free health care system. 100% free. I just know that paying fair taxes is a part of that system I believe in. The current system in the US is not fair at all though...

A system  which pays doctors cannot be free. The doctors need to get paid, and that money has to come from somewhere. You can hide the costs or spread them around, but calling it 100% free is lying.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 17, 2013, 02:05:28 PM
I actually believe in a socialist free health care system. 100% free. I just know that paying fair taxes is a part of that system I believe in. The current system in the US is not fair at all though...

A system  which pays doctors cannot be free. The doctors need to get paid, and that money has to come from somewhere. You can hide the costs or spread them around, but calling it 100% free is lying.

I mention paying fair taxes is a part of that system. The taxes pay the doctor. Obviously, nothing is 100% free in absolute terms. I meant little to no out of pocket expenses on each visit. Obviously a doctor has to be paid. Obviously.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 02:07:56 PM
...Yes, to a large degree I was just talking s#it  :D

Well, you aren't that good at it either. You should have waited until I was foolish enough to give you more personal information. Tell you what, I'll share one out of the many many fun-time stories that come with being a caregiver of the person who use to be your spouse;
This one time after spending 10 hours at the ER waiting for her to be cleared while she ranted nonstop about how God had appointed her His messenger of the the Holy Blessing of the Nicotine patch and how they would cure the world of all ills and sins, so they could transport her to the locked "Senior Diagnostic Unit" so they could keep her alive while doping her into unconsciousness with haldol so she could finally get some sleep and hopefully end the manic energy that had led to a week of no sleep and you are finally at home feeling guilty and ashamed at how relieved you are the bitch is finally locked up somewhere safe so you can FINALLY sleep yourself, and you realize you just spent half a day talking to people about taking care of her and wondering why they were looking at you funny and you look in a mirror and see that you haven't shaved in a week, or changed your clothes in days, or taken a shower yourself in all that time, and you just start laughing and can't stop for a very scary amount of time, believe me, you haven't lived.

Statements by people that haven't personally experienced the living hell your life became years ago roll off you like rain on a warm summer day. So no worries. Bitcoins baby! FTW! (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Mike Christ on May 17, 2013, 02:08:45 PM
OP, you do what you feel is best.  Don't listen to those commie-wannabe bastards.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: sigfawn on May 17, 2013, 02:19:17 PM
Is it possible to setup a special needs trust where assets are placed in a trust possibly managed by you that can be used for specific medical reasons but won't be considered for Medicaid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_needs_trust

A printed wallet can work.  I personally wouldn't find it to be significantly more secure or reliable than a flash drive.  Personally if I was paranoid I would use both.

Bitcoins at this point is a risky investment and I wouldn't suggest buying more bitcoins than you can afford to loose.  I expect it will either be a very good savings method or go to zero with little in between.

great advice


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 17, 2013, 02:24:21 PM
OP, you do what you feel is best.  Don't listen to those commie-wannabe bastards.

Hahaha. Commie bastard. Original. And the OP said he did not want the thread to become a sympathy card. Then he posts more about his situation (if true) for no other reason. I offered sympathy for his situation in every other post, yet I have an opinion of my own as well and at least I share mine with respect.

If we can't post without slinging insults like those found the last posts from both the OP and "mike christ", then this forum becomes just another troll box.  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 02:31:50 PM
...Original. And the OP said he did not want the thread to become a sympathy card. Then he posts more about his situation (if true) for no other reason. I offered sympathy for his situation in every other post, yet I have an opinion of my own as well and at least I share mine with respect.

If we can't post without slinging insults like those found the last posts from both the OP and "mike christ", then this forum becomes just another troll box.  ::)

See? If given the opportunity, most people do try to rise to a challenge! Still, nothing beats the fear of going to a caregiver "support" meeting and realizing that your situation is only going to get so much worse. Now that's real fear. Shame is laughable. Go for fear. I still have a few buttons there that work. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 17, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Honestly your situation sounds bad man. You do however have someone special who is still in your life and thats more than a lot of people got. Always remember that there are people on this forum who have had their loved ones taken from them and lets just say I can relate to that so, yeah.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 04:51:49 PM
Honestly your situation sounds bad man. You do however have someone special who is still in your life and thats more than a lot of people got. Always remember that there are people on this forum who have had their loved ones taken from them and lets just say I can relate to that so, yeah.

Pain is subjective. I'm sorry you can relate. That sucks.

So, all this subjective stuff aside, is it worth the effort to cold store a paper wallet vs. keeping BTC in an online exchange wallet, on a USB stick or Offline PC HD? Especially if liquidity is not the goal? Or is it overkill?


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Rampion on May 17, 2013, 04:55:26 PM
My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

Bitcoins are not good for a "savings account". Especially if you cannot afford to lose that money.

This is experimental software. It can go south. It can be replaced by better software. Many things can go very bad with Bitcoin, you would just be gambling with very much needed savings.

Just don't do it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Joshman2934 on May 17, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
I don't see how this would work since BTC don't really gain interest since they fluctuate with the market unlike how physical money does


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Peter Lambert on May 17, 2013, 07:06:57 PM
I don't see how this would work since BTC don't really gain interest since they fluctuate with the market unlike how physical money does

The point of a savings account is not to earn interest, the point of the savings account is to store the money so you can have it later when you need it. In the OP's case, having savings outside the traditional banking system opens opportunities for aid which are not available to people with more than a pittance within the traditional banking system.

If you do want to gain interest there are a couple places to invest btc, like BTC-BOND on BTCT.co, (disclaimer: before investing do your own research).

I think you mean to say bitcoins fluctuate with the market just like how physical money does, for example gold.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 07:27:30 PM
I don't see how this would work since BTC don't really gain interest since they fluctuate with the market unlike how physical money does

The point of a savings account is not to earn interest, the point of the savings account is to store the money so you can have it later when you need it. In the OP's case, having savings outside the traditional banking system opens opportunities for aid which are not available to people with more than a pittance within the traditional banking system.

If you do want to gain interest there are a couple places to invest btc, like BTC-BOND on BTCT.co, (disclaimer: before investing do your own research).

I think you mean to say bitcoins fluctuate with the market just like how physical money does, for example gold.

Also our particular situation ends in 7 years when she can take her retirement. I'm willing to bet a few bitcoins now on the possibility that they'll be worth considerably more in 7 years.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Spieder on May 17, 2013, 07:42:02 PM
I'd diversify into multiple assets I could easily liquidate,  just in case. I'd prefer to select assets which don't depreciate and reasonably hedge against inflation. I would consider Bitcoins as one but also think about gold and silver make a nice portfolio option.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 17, 2013, 07:44:34 PM
All other things aside you will keep getting the same answers now. Most people suggest against it for good reason. Im going to gamble some money on longterm bitcoin too. But I don't call that money savings  ;D

You sound determined to do this and I guess I can't blame you so make a paper wallet with a nasty long password, laminate it, and never loose it. Don't use an online wallet (can get hacked) or put it on hardware (hardware crashes all the time).


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: extracrunchy on May 17, 2013, 07:44:59 PM
wouldnt this be kinda illegal??


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 17, 2013, 08:20:39 PM
wouldnt this be kinda illegal??

I don't think its illegal as long as I report it. I've definitely been persuaded that doing this without it being transparent would be a bad idea. But I'd hate for us to miss this opportunity if we don't have to. That should be an interesting conversation with her Case Manager. "What is Bitcoin? A paper wallet what?" (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 24, 2013, 11:49:43 AM
Well people who abuse the system are wrong, and make me sick. I could be paying for your medicate and in that case, I be extremely upset that my money is helping you get bitcoins.

Let me ease your worried mind then. I don't get Medicaid. I don't have health insurance. When I get sick, I get to get over it. There. Feel better? :)

I hope the government finds out about this, and what you are trying to do, and puts you in jail for 5yrs and your wife in home. You deserve to see a cell. "Fraud" is serious and government "Fraud" is the worst in my opinion. You think your stealing from the government when in turn your stealing out of my pockets. Your a piece of scum.

I am not for hiding income or assets to avoid legitimate tax liability.

Ohhh your not?

I have no issue with hiding assets to get much needed assistance.  It sucks to have to bend the rules in order to survive.

They are viewed as the same crime. So yeah, another stupid person on the forums can you both leave, people like this make me so sick.

Gweedo; first let me say that I respect you immensely as a contributor to the discussion at Bitcointalk.org. Your insight has been very valuable to me.

Allow me to state, from experience mind you, that it is a luxury that few can afford; to have legal tax and asset shelters such as SEPs, HSAs, Roth's and the like. No one ever looks down in on a fellow that buries a handsome sum in his SEP to avoid taxation. It is admirable to max out a Health Savings Account in a tax deferred/free manner. Roth's are an awesome vehicle for retirement for those that are not self-employed. That emergency fund we are cautioned to keep in case of disaster makes us feel safe. All the while still having the means to pay a fellow several thousand dollars per year (100% deduction too) to see to it that the wealth that was so hard fought for remains with its rightful owner.

I certainly took this for granted. I wondered how less fortunate people could be so ignorant. Then some real shit happened at a very young age that shattered the foundation on which I had built my beliefs. Life changing events happened that I'd wish upon no one.

What happens when the real world has different plans for the nest egg, and all those things are cashed out to pay for necessities? Necessities like food, gas, premiums, medical bills, housing, electricity, and transportation. Now there is no money for life saving healthcare AND food, no funds for rent/mortgage AND the water/electricity bill that accompanies it, no more health insurance, no more annuity, no more nest egg.  In some cases, no more wife or family to lean on for support. What now?

I'll tell you what now.  What everTF is necessary to survive. If that means selling a car at a loss to a friend so there isn't one in paper; you do it. If it means you mustn't have over $500 in assets (when you only have enough to get thru 45 frugal days); you make it look like you have <$500. Otherwise you go without lifesaving medication and care.

Walk a mile in another man's moccasins before casting harsh judgment upon his actions my friend. I'm still fiscally conservative and think most of the programs the OP and myself desperately need should be eliminated. It would allow for those that have extra to lend a hand to those in need instead of being forced to help those that repeatedly refuse to help themselves. The current system just doesn't allow for it.

Would you rather a young man die in poverty and sickness, and a more mature gentleman go without basic needs in order to care for his wife?

Regardless your answer, I'd still choose you for escrow to sell my PS3 to help pay for the next round of oncologist visits while I wait on a response from Medicaid.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 24, 2013, 02:43:30 PM
...Regardless your answer, I'd still choose you for escrow to sell my PS3 to help pay for the next round of oncologist visits while I wait on a response from Medicaid.

pwi, I appreciate the backup and I'm sorry that this issue is still bothering you. The entire reason I raised the issue is because my wife and I are in a temporary catch 22 situation with our local government. If it hasn't become clear by now, we don't have the means financially, or permission under the guidelines of our particular situation, to save money in a bank account for essential expenditure situations that arise from time to time. This puts me in a situation where I have to save fiat currency in a portable fireproof safe to pay for these, or use our single credit card for such emergency purchases, pushing us further into debt. I did not mean for this to become an argument about the legality of these issues. I have no intention of offering proof one way or the other about our situation. It's not important to me one way or the other whether anyone here believes me or not. It won't change the temporary reality we live in. That will take another 7 years. I'm merely looking for a better way to save and spend on things we need than the equivalent of stuffing money in a mattress. The dispute DID remind me, as always, it's more important to me that we stay within the boundaries of our limitations than worrying about incurring debt that can't force us out of it. While I'm still waiting an answer as to the acceptability of Bitcoin as a savings and spending method, I now doubt that it will be allowed. I can probably spend fiat currency on purchasing Bitcoins, and posses them, as long as I don't exchange them back into fiat currency that has to be reported, especially if that earns us income. I am checking on that with the PTB, as there are members of our family that have been frustrated in their inability to help us financially due to those income limitations we are temporarily under. You may have noticed that I added and have left a BTC donation address to my messages. I'm not gonna remove it. No one has sent any there, but it's my little rebellion against the system I am trapped in, and it makes me feel better. If it becomes a problem, I can forget the address and never access it again. If anyone here feels the need to vent about that, feel free. I deal with stuff everyday that just makes a good online chewing out amusing and enlightening. (grin) I've enjoyed watching Bitcoin the same way I enjoyed watching the Internet go from being a weird hobby to changing the world as we know it. I think Bitcoin is doing the same thing. I'd like to participate, but it the PTB say no, Oh well. I'll still watch and it'll still be fun to do so. Life goes on.

I'll conclude by offering my sympathy and empathy for your own situation. Waiting on Medicaid with it's automatic rejections and required legal fight is one of the more ridiculous aspects of our system. Similar to the 24 month waiting period between qualifying for SSD and qualifying for Medicare. Why? "because that's the way the system works". If you've racked up medical debt at hospitals like we were forced to, check with their financial departments about Financial Assistant Programs. It's a lot of paperwork, but I managed to get the medical debt we incurred during those ever so fun 24 months down from $160k to $20k using them. Good luck!


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: yamer on May 24, 2013, 02:56:47 PM
OP, you do what you feel is best.  Don't listen to those commie-wannabe bastards.
+1


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 24, 2013, 05:41:44 PM
imo, you should save in gold.  ...

Assets are an issue for us at this time. We are allowed to have reasonable assets or debts, such as a single car paid off, a single mortgage(I'd say house, but the bank owns more of it than we do), reasonable home appliances, etc. We can have reasonable cash flows from our bank account, such as our monthly mortgage payment. We are expected to declare any new assets and/or changes in income and outflow of currency. Holding cash in our house is a grey area. As long as we spend it on necessities and not luxuries, I can justify it after the fact. I have the privilege of being "entitled" to print out copies of our bank statements, mortgage statements, credit card statements, and declare all assets again, at least twice a year to various interested parties. Any misstep in the process triggers automatic cutoffs and a fun round of appeals.
Fun factoid; when we were a lot younger and both worked full time, we cosigned a mortgage for the kids who had good jobs, but not the credit rating. We had to "force" their grandparents into taking that over just to get our names off the mortgage, and then wait the required period of time before my wife could qualify for these "entitlement" programs. Also, I'm required to apply for these same programs at least twice a year, or anytime one of these interested parties demands it, so I can send them a current denial letter for me. I'm so "entitled" I can hardly stand it! (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: chanson on May 24, 2013, 06:18:31 PM
Gah! This thread makes me so angry. It's the same old story. Why the f* can't we get a social safety net to just work? It's the same old cycle, ridiculous burdensome bullshit that exploits taxpayers because we have to prevent the greedy rich antisocial bastards from exploiting the taxpayers. So much rage. So. Much.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 24, 2013, 07:24:00 PM
...Regardless your answer, I'd still choose you for escrow to sell my PS3 to help pay for the next round of oncologist visits while I wait on a response from Medicaid.

pwi, I appreciate the backup and I'm sorry that this issue is still bothering you. The entire reason I raised the issue is because my wife and I are in a temporary catch 22 situation with our local government. If it hasn't become clear by now, we don't have the means financially, or permission under the guidelines of our particular situation, to save money in a bank account for essential expenditure situations that arise from time to time. This puts me in a situation where I have to save fiat currency in a portable fireproof safe to pay for these, or use our single credit card for such emergency purchases, pushing us further into debt. I did not mean for this to become an argument about the legality of these issues. I have no intention of offering proof one way or the other about our situation. It's not important to me one way or the other whether anyone here believes me or not. It won't change the temporary reality we live in. That will take another 7 years. I'm merely looking for a better way to save and spend on things we need than the equivalent of stuffing money in a mattress. The dispute DID remind me, as always, it's more important to me that we stay within the boundaries of our limitations than worrying about incurring debt that can't force us out of it. While I'm still waiting an answer as to the acceptability of Bitcoin as a savings and spending method, I now doubt that it will be allowed. I can probably spend fiat currency on purchasing Bitcoins, and posses them, as long as I don't exchange them back into fiat currency that has to be reported, especially if that earns us income. I am checking on that with the PTB, as there are members of our family that have been frustrated in their inability to help us financially due to those income limitations we are temporarily under. You may have noticed that I added and have left a BTC donation address to my messages. I'm not gonna remove it. No one has sent any there, but it's my little rebellion against the system I am trapped in, and it makes me feel better. If it becomes a problem, I can forget the address and never access it again. If anyone here feels the need to vent about that, feel free. I deal with stuff everyday that just makes a good online chewing out amusing and enlightening. (grin) I've enjoyed watching Bitcoin the same way I enjoyed watching the Internet go from being a weird hobby to changing the world as we know it. I think Bitcoin is doing the same thing. I'd like to participate, but it the PTB say no, Oh well. I'll still watch and it'll still be fun to do so. Life goes on.

I'll conclude by offering my sympathy and empathy for your own situation. Waiting on Medicaid with it's automatic rejections and required legal fight is one of the more ridiculous aspects of our system. Similar to the 24 month waiting period between qualifying for SSD and qualifying for Medicare. Why? "because that's the way the system works". If you've racked up medical debt at hospitals like we were forced to, check with their financial departments about Financial Assistant Programs. It's a lot of paperwork, but I managed to get the medical debt we incurred during those ever so fun 24 months down from $160k to $20k using them. Good luck!

Thanks so much Jim. My support is trivial at best. The aggression displayed by some bothers me for whatever reason. This aggression will not stand. Man.

For the record:  Until my authorities dictate the nature of bitcoins as some intangible or tangible asset, I fail to see the need to report it. I will continue to report gains in and conversions to fiat as income/assets as required by said authorities.

I have a hard enough time explaining Bitcoin to MBA students and local merchants, let alone the kind lady at the desk or on the phone at the local government office. Until they understand and regulate it of their own volition; I fail to see the need to educate and inform them.

Keep fighting the good fight Jim. Those of us that care and understand will continue to do so. Those that do not will remain cold and hardened. All but gweedo; I can dismiss as trolling newbies. I'd expect 'hero' members to exercise virtuous silence if not offering words of support. It just makes for a better community environment. 


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 24, 2013, 11:02:44 PM
Thanks so much Jim. My support is trivial at best. The aggression displayed by some bothers me for whatever reason. This aggression will not stand. Man.
As I think I mentioned before, I've been participating online since the BBS/Fidonet days. I even had the "fun" of moderating a very volatile "echo". One person's aggression or button is another's sincerely held belief, or casual statement meant without true malice, or mistaken assumption. I take it all as a learning curve. I learn something new about Bitcoin every day here, so it's worth it. Now all I have to do is shoot the guys who came up with...uh I mean, try to figure out what Ripple is and that will be cool. In my day, it was just a really bad, really cheap "wine". (grin)

Quote
For the record:  Until my authorities dictate the nature of bitcoins as some intangible or tangible asset, I fail to see the need to report it. I will continue to report gains in and conversions to fiat as income/assets as required by said authorities.
I don't have any yet, so not a problem. If I do get some, I'll put em in a paper wallet after I create a linux partition on the old XP box my wife uses to play solitaire on again. That's always fun, but I haven't had a reason to play with linux for awhile. Other than the USB stick I boot into to update and run command line utility scans on the connected systems. I'd rather dual boot though for anything more than that. Linux on USB2 just runs too slow for anything other than letting scans run, in my experience. I won't exchange any for fiat currency until we are out of the temporary situation we are in now. If a reporting requirement happens, I don't think even reporting that I "own" something virtual with no actual value until it's exchanged for fiat currency, goods or services will cause a problem for us.

Quote
I have a hard enough time explaining Bitcoin to MBA students and local merchants, let alone the kind lady at the desk or on the phone at the local government office. Until they understand and regulate it of their own volition; I fail to see the need to educate and inform them.
I'm trying to learn enough to explain it to my father the retired CPA. He just looks at me and asks the same question over and over again; "so, that bitcoinATM thingy, what bank supplies the money for that?" (grin)

Quote
Keep fighting the good fight Jim. Those of us that care and understand will continue to do so. Those that do not will remain cold and hardened. All but gweedo; I can dismiss as trolling newbies. I'd expect 'hero' members to exercise virtuous silence if not offering words of support. It just makes for a better community environment. 
Aww, don't stop the newbies from trolling. It's hurts their feelings. "Encourage" them to participate "correctly". Oldbies don't troll. They fight the good fight. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 25, 2013, 05:06:52 PM
I'd expect 'hero' members to exercise virtuous silence if not offering words of support. It just makes for a better community environment. 

So you want me to not have freedom of speech? I guess silencing member's opinions is the best community environment it works for china LOL


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: CanadianGuy on May 25, 2013, 05:18:48 PM
While the info about your wife (if true) is sad, you are not doing the right thing here. The reason the gov does not give out free money to people with large bank accounts is because those people can pay for expenses themselves. You should pay what you can, as unfair as it may seem to you, and then if what you have left is not enough you can then apply for gov handouts.

If you want to be greedy and take/keep every penny you earn then get a saftey deposit box and keep your cash in it.

This is simple people. Bitcoin is not needed to hide wealth. This has been happening since before there were computers. You don't need a big mattress to hide your money. Bitcoin is not the answer to your "problem". Your problem is that you won't pay what society has said you should pay for your wifes care from your own pocket first. You want to take my/our money first.

Im not trying to start a debate about the law that says you being broke because of medical expenses is fair.

I personally think this is often totaly unfair. I am a "socialist" who thinks that medical care is a basic right. I am willing to pay my share for your wifes care. But we "socialists" are becoming a small minority in a greed driven world. I am willing to bet you are like 80%+ of other humans today and you would be calling foul on your situation if you were not in it. You complain about high taxes, but the fact is if you want your free money, someone else is paying 2x what they should be to fund your lifestyle. We buy your bitcoins. People like you who hide money from being taxed fairly are the reason why taxes are so damned high.

Stop polluting our forum with this pseudo-illegal bs. You don't need bitcoins to illegally hide wealth.


 Blah blah blah blah.  Everybody has a choice of whether or not to live their lives completely legit.  I highly doubt he's going to change his ways because of your rambling.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 25, 2013, 11:01:45 PM

Blah blah blah blah.  Everybody has a choice of whether or not to live their lives completely legit.  I highly doubt he's going to change his ways because of your rambling.
 

Do you really think I expect anything from a post on an internet forum? Do you think thats why people post?

I was bored a few weeks ago and felt like talking some shit. Sometimes its fun to throw down. While I mean most of what I said I'll admit that I was trolling a bit, but I think the OP should expect some of that when asking this sort of thing.

If you don't agree with what I said though don't take the easy way out and whine about my posts. "Blah, blah, blah, blah..." Your response sounds like it comes from a kid on a youtube comment troll box. Where are the adults here...  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: alani123 on May 25, 2013, 11:27:04 PM
What if bitcoin experience a crash again?
It would maybe safer than keeping your money in your house in terms that they can't be stolen.
BUT bitcoin is decentralized and therefore not stable.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 26, 2013, 09:20:30 PM
Oh no, I've completely changed. I'm on the side of the good now. Old dog new tricks. And so there. Bad bitcoin! Bad! Sit!


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 26, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
What if bitcoin experience a crash again?
It would maybe safer than keeping your money in your house in terms that they can't be stolen.
BUT bitcoin is decentralized and therefore not stable.

Well I certainly hope so. Where's the fun without the pump and dump? In the long run I think bitcoin will go up quite a bit more than it has so far. I'm on that side of the fence.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 27, 2013, 10:18:07 AM
I'd expect 'hero' members to exercise virtuous silence if not offering words of support. It just makes for a better community environment. 

So you want me to not have freedom of speech? I guess silencing member's opinions is the best community environment it works for china LOL

Nope. Only my opinion matters. 😉

In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Freedom of everything is good. Something tells me you don't have the character qualities to support that environment. I don't either.

No one is silenced here. Certainly not you and I.

Hugs gweedo


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: wachtwoord on May 27, 2013, 10:33:36 AM
I'll put my opinion in the form of a question:

If a system allows for exploitation, is something wrong with the exploiter or with the system itself? ;)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Mike Christ on May 27, 2013, 10:35:29 AM
I'll put my opinion in the form of a question:

If a system allows for exploitation, is something wrong with the exploiter or with the system itself? ;)

Depends: is the exploiter forced to participate in the system?

Just kidding.  The system is at fault either way you look at it :D


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: vivilloin on May 27, 2013, 11:19:10 AM
A printed out Bitcoin wallet.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 27, 2013, 11:51:37 AM
A printed out Bitcoin wallet.

Is a  good way to safely "cold store" bitcoin as a possible long term investment(with high risk), but not as a savings account, seems to be the general consensus. I've got an offline linux box & printer all set up for this if the PTB's come back with what I expect them to say, which is pretty much the same rule about everything: "As long as it doesn't turn into taxable income that raises your monthly income above the "acceptable limit", we don't care." This thread went from a discussion about paper bitcoin wallet as a possible "savings account" to a morality play because I included TMI in the OP. So, here's some more:
Before my wife and I went through the "25billion 'easy' lessons" on how to survive early onset dementia on a state and federally regulated fixed income, our family and friends were trying to help us financially. It was nice of them, but until you've really experienced America's Health Industry costs without health insurance, you haven't lived. (grin)
So now they help us by being forced to use what the government agencies refer to as "grey income". They can send us gift cards, and we don't have to report them as income. But we can't sell them or give them away, only use them. Since Wal-Mart already gets most of our money, those are the most popular. They can pay our utility bills directly, they just can't send us the money for them. Oh, and since I don't work for a living, but have "chosen" to stay home and be my wife's full time caregiver, I'm an entitled bum living off the system. And this entire system that keeps my wife alive is balanced on the idea that she'll die before the government changes any of the entitlement programs we depend on.
Personally, I think Bitcoin is a little less risky than that.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 27, 2013, 12:33:19 PM
I'll put my opinion in the form of a question:
If a system allows for exploitation, is something wrong with the exploiter or with the system itself? ;)

Perception is an interesting factor. Over the years I've found consistency in this: Reality is subjective and survival is objective. The fact that most people believe the exact opposite allows one to bias one's personal survival in a positive direction.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: plonk420 on May 27, 2013, 07:58:35 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. As many have already stated, while a physical paper (laminated) wallet is a good way to keep your bitcoins secure, "betting the farm" on a savings of strictly bitcoin is probably not the smartest move right now. If you have a coinbase account, two-factor authentication is another good way to get that "warm fuzzy". All you need is an app called "Authy" - research it at www.coinbase.com if you've never heard of this before.

I wish you the best my friend.


you don't even need an app. you can use an SMS for two-factor.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JayKEy00 on May 27, 2013, 08:07:25 PM
MOD EDIT:
See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218040.0 as this site is probably a scam


Make a PaperWallet at www.bitcoin-address.org, print it and put it in your safe. Thats the best method to secure bitcoins.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 27, 2013, 08:12:28 PM
In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Yeah lets have empathy for someone taking advantage of my money. Sorry but I can't... Fraud is a serious crime, and should not be taken lightly in any sense.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: werauchimmer on May 27, 2013, 09:05:22 PM
As many have already stated, while a physical paper (laminated) wallet is a good way to keep your bitcoins secure, "betting the farm" on a savings of strictly bitcoin is probably not the smartest move right now.

+1

Do not know the situation where you live, but here there would be -legal!- ways around your problem.


Wish you the best.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: enquirer on May 27, 2013, 10:57:51 PM
I mention paying fair taxes is a part of that system. The taxes pay the doctor. Obviously, nothing is 100% free in absolute terms. I meant little to no out of pocket expenses on each visit. Obviously a doctor has to be paid. Obviously.

In the US, most of what you pay for health care is not going to doctors. Most of that money goes to insurance against greedy lawyers, to paying off loans for ridiculously overpriced education, to administration needed to comply with endless regulations and perverted insurance system.

Only in the US, honest people that worked hard and paid taxes all their life, end up without any help from society in case hard luck strikes them. That same society that so hypocritically trumpets "christian" and "community" values.

Don't feel guilty if you need to trick the system a little bit at this point. Don't use bitcoin for savings, it could easily lose value, why do you need another thing to worry about. Just put your cash into safe deposit box, nobody will inspect it. If you think that hiding money in bitcoins is more "legal" or more "moral" than hiding it in deposit box, that's not the case. At some point you will have to convert btc to cash, so you going to 'break the law" anyway.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: enquirer on May 27, 2013, 11:06:16 PM
And to Mr. Exoskeleton, let's decide that my tax money goes to compensate for the poster's deficiency, and your tax money goes to support a Guantanamo prisoner at $3000/day, now you feel better?


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: phoxpup on May 27, 2013, 11:17:26 PM
BTC is a high risk volatile investment with a potential of high gain.  It is an excellent choiceto include in one's portfolio along with more conservative investments.  You've got to love it for what it is. If you want stability, buy Gold, or Ammunition, or Real Estate.  Wait a minute... those aren't stable either.  Its probably better to invest in beer and pizza and throw a lot of parties and make a lot of friends helping them out with their projects.  Having a long list of friends may be the best investment.  You could make a lot of friends by showing them how to use bitcoin. :-)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: xRUFUSx on May 27, 2013, 11:19:37 PM
Using your mobile phone's SD card as wallet cold storage (backup only).  Be careful, and take some of the best data-backup advice i've ever gotten:

"If it doesn't exist in at least 2 places, it doesn't exist."


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: phoxpup on May 27, 2013, 11:34:10 PM
Using your mobile phone's SD card as wallet cold storage (backup only).  Be careful, and take some of the best data-backup advice i've ever gotten:

"If it doesn't exist in at least 2 places, it doesn't exist."
Few things are more true.  :-)  With bitcoin multiple backups are necessary and they MUST be kept safe from unauthorized access.  Its kind of a natural conflict, you want lots of backup copies but you also want perfect control over all of them.  Winning strategies require some planning. :-)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: giligon on May 28, 2013, 12:14:44 AM
will give you paper wallets to print, and has a good walk through to make a cold storage wallet


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Exoskeleton on May 28, 2013, 02:19:59 AM
And to Mr. Exoskeleton, let's decide that my tax money goes to compensate for the poster's deficiency, and your tax money goes to support a Guantanamo prisoner at $3000/day, now you feel better?

I already posted in this thread that I would like a free health care system in this country and I am willing to pay more taxes to support it. I also said that I think poverty due to health care costs is unfair. Do you think Im the kind of person who wants to support Guantanamo? Of course not man. Well, I guess its time for me to pay the troll toll now. Because posting on this forum your bound to get trolled. Big time.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: rtt on May 28, 2013, 02:40:20 AM
I already posted in this thread that I would like a free health care system in this country and I am willing to pay more taxes to support it.
Inserting unlimited layers of bureaucrats between yourself and your doctor somehow makes sense to you??


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: phoxpup on May 28, 2013, 02:48:48 AM
Bitcoin: Can always trade it, Can't counterfeit it, Can destroy individual coins but they are virtually infinitely divisible, Based on public/private key cryptography that even quantum computing cannot break.  Sounds like a juggernaut to me.  I would invest.  It will be a lot more buoyant than the depleted uranium balloon we call USD. 


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: WishIStartedSooner on May 28, 2013, 03:05:48 AM
i didnt expect this crowd to be this ignroant about issues like these.

we arent talking about somebody with wealth exploiting the system.

we're talking about a dude down on his luck trying not to get trapped in the system.

the system is designed to keep you there once you're in it. less of a risk to this guy, due to his wifes retirement, but the guy who gave the heartfelt speech about walk a mile in another man's moccasins is exactly right.

easy to say youd never do anything like this for some people.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Foxpup on May 28, 2013, 04:27:17 AM
Based on public/private key cryptography that even quantum computing cannot break.
Not true: ECDSA as used in Bitcoin is indeed vulnerable to quantum computers. Fortunately, real quantum computers of sufficient power don't exist yet, and likely won't exist for a long time.

(Sorry for stealing your name, by the way.)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: niko on May 28, 2013, 04:33:07 AM
Bitcoin is not a good saving meyhod, but a risky investment, only slighly better than gambling (in the sense that you might at least try to contribute to its success if you have skills). So, no.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Sandstorm on May 28, 2013, 04:46:06 AM
BTC are an excellent saving method. due to lower accessibility long term value increase. But if you put a significant amount in there you must give someone you trust very much instructions/encryption code on how to access them.

Otherwise if you die the funds will effectively disappear. Sad but true


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pwi on May 28, 2013, 07:23:24 AM
In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Yeah lets have empathy for someone taking advantage of my money. Sorry but I can't... Fraud is a serious crime, and should not be taken lightly in any sense.

I'm pretty sure the OP paid into the system that he now would like to extract some value from. We all paid into it in case we need it. The OP is just asking for what HE already paid for. The only person taking YOUR money is the bureaucratic infrastructure to which we fund. 

The OP is just an individual trying to extract the value that was provided by the tax revenue he paid for a benefit he now needs but never used. Just because you don't need it, but are forced to pay it; does not  mean Jim is taking your money. Fraud is avoiding paying what is owed, and taking that which is not deserved.

Under our current system, we are required to pay in and then leave the decision making to a largely inept system. We should at least agree that Jim is deserving based upon the information available; and the system is broken at its very core.

Can we find something on which to agree? Or am I just a bleeding heart liberal and you a cold hearted conservative? I don't believe either is true.

Hugs gweedo.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 28, 2013, 04:44:39 PM
In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Yeah lets have empathy for someone taking advantage of my money. Sorry but I can't... Fraud is a serious crime, and should not be taken lightly in any sense.

I'm pretty sure the OP paid into the system that he now would like to extract some value from...

Well, we are busy redefining our financial reality here in the states. Remember our clever re-designation of estate taxes paid to the government upon the death of the estate holder as "Death Taxes?" We are now redefining anyone who is relying on Government entitlement programs for any reason as "entitled." Even if you previously contributed to the system. The fact that you no longer do so, but are dependent on the so-called safety net of government entitlement systems means you are taking advantage of everyone who is presently paying into it by working full-time. I can understand people's reactions to our situation. I can even sympathize with it. But that doesn't eliminate our need to stay alive. We, like everyone of the other 7+ billion people on the face of the earth, have this bizarre desire to continue to live beyond our productive and contributing years. And to even enjoy some quality of life in the process. I know. "Entitled". (grin)
I'm not sure, and I hate to speak to define someone else's intent or meaning, but I think what gweedo objects to is the possibility that if I purchase and possess bitcoins, I will have used funds that should not be available to me due to the fact that we are depending on entitlement programs, instead of pay for work produced income. Entitlement programs that his tax dollars are presently paying into. And the possibility that I might be breaking some law by committing, or attempting to commit fraud in the process. 
Except for the possibility of purchasing and possessing BTC and/or other cryptocurrencies, none of that is my intent. But I have no desire or need to prove that. And nothing I say or will say here offers that proof.
I am setup to receive BTC, and in the process of setting up to receive LTC. And investing in LTC mining. All coins will be transferred to offline paper wallets, printed off an offline Linux system, with a firewalled hardline network connection to the online system. 
Against the day that I can exchange them for fiat currency without incurring the to me much more serious than any other penalty of losing our "entitled" status. Since our electric utility is paid for directly by a family member who doesn't mind the energy cost for mining, and other family members are purchasing the system to my specs, all I'll contribute is the labor of construction, setup and monitoring. It'll give me something to do. If you do a little research, you'll discover that you can report these virtual sources of "income". 
The status of LTC is even less well understood than that of BTC. Good thing my inquiry was about Bitcoin AND other alternative cryptocurrencies. I'm sure that with the variety of participants in the bitcoin disruption, someone will in someway object to some of this. Let me reiterate my position on that: I don't care. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 28, 2013, 05:16:12 PM
In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Yeah lets have empathy for someone taking advantage of my money. Sorry but I can't... Fraud is a serious crime, and should not be taken lightly in any sense.

I'm pretty sure the OP paid into the system that he now would like to extract some value from. We all paid into it in case we need it. The OP is just asking for what HE already paid for. The only person taking YOUR money is the bureaucratic infrastructure to which we fund. 

The OP is just an individual trying to extract the value that was provided by the tax revenue he paid for a benefit he now needs but never used. Just because you don't need it, but are forced to pay it; does not  mean Jim is taking your money. Fraud is avoiding paying what is owed, and taking that which is not deserved.

Under our current system, we are required to pay in and then leave the decision making to a largely inept system. We should at least agree that Jim is deserving based upon the information available; and the system is broken at its very core.

Can we find something on which to agree? Or am I just a bleeding heart liberal and you a cold hearted conservative? I don't believe either is true.

Hugs gweedo.

Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: chanson on May 28, 2013, 06:02:29 PM
I already posted in this thread that I would like a free health care system in this country and I am willing to pay more taxes to support it.
Inserting unlimited layers of bureaucrats between yourself and your doctor somehow makes sense to you??

Nobody deals directly with doctors except in some retarded fringe fantasy that is entirely divorced from reality. Put another way, a single taxpayer-limited layer of beurocrats would be vastly superior to the chose-your-own-adventure of multiple unlimited layers of for-profit free-market kleptocrats we currently have.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: tinus42 on May 28, 2013, 07:17:21 PM
Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

You're probably like the type who reports every homeless person they encounter in their neighbourhood to the police for breaking the vagrancy law.

Go pay your taxes and obey the government. What will you do when they declare Bitcoin to be illegal?


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: wachtwoord on May 28, 2013, 09:19:34 PM
Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

Come on Gweedo you're above that. This world would be a lot better place if people could just mind their own business.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 28, 2013, 09:55:00 PM
...and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

Let me reiterate my position on that: I don't care. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 28, 2013, 11:05:29 PM
Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

You're probably like the type who reports every homeless person they encounter in their neighbourhood to the police for breaking the vagrancy law.

Go pay your taxes and obey the government. What will you do when they declare Bitcoin to be illegal?

LMAO actually I donated to that organization around bitcoins to help feed them, so no. I think everyone should pay their taxes cause then if you do, they really won't declare bitcoin illegal. Also in the off chance they do declare bitcoin illegal, I have plans to move to Berlin, which have been in place.


Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

Come on Gweedo you're above that. This world would be a lot better place if people could just mind their own business.

Not with fraud, it hurts everyone. People like him, probably don't pay taxes and don't do the correct thing, are hurting bitcoin users in the USA. I could easily not pay taxes on my wealth, but I do. I also make sure to mark down that my wealth is coming from bitcoins. To show the government that not everyone in bitcoins is trying to pull one over the eyes of them, but instead is just like having a job and getting paid in yen or euros. I have to protect myself and my wealth from people like this, and actually the private investigator wasn't hired by me but was actually just a lurker, and has already gotten some good information on him.

...and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

Let me reiterate my position on that: I don't care. (grin)

LMAO glad you don't care, I hope you enjoy a nice prison cell, and since your wife is unfit to take care her self, they will find a nice state run place for her. As I said fraud is a serious matter, and you are hurt the community when you commit it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Anon136 on May 28, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

yes, yes it would.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 28, 2013, 11:43:32 PM

LMAO glad you don't care, I hope you enjoy a nice prison cell, and since your wife is unfit to take care her self, they will find a nice state run place for her. As I said fraud is a serious matter, and you are hurt the community when you commit it.

Actually a state run place for her could be had for her now if it was necessary. We haven't quite reached that point yet. She has a full-time caregiver to provide the home health services she requires at this time. As the level of dementia increases, the amount of state contracted services have increased. The most expensive option to the state, and therefore to the system paid for by entitlement programs, is full time care in a state medicaid facility. But at this time it doesn't offer the same quality of life she has at home.
As for prison, you have no idea how amusing I find that. Until you've spent a week keeping someone you care about from harming herself as the delirium caused by the increasingly manic energy that anxiety and lack of sleep increases to the breaking point of psychotic behavior to the level of qualifying as a danger to herself or others, followed by 10 hours of doing the same in an ER as you wait for the doctors to finish observing her under the influence of increasingly strong injections of medications that seem to have no effect while she rants at the top of her lungs about the message she has received from God to preach the Gospel of the Holy Nicotine patch and it's all healing properties to the world until finally they decide to commit her to a locked unit and knock her unconscious with strong enough medications to break the manic cycle, and when you finally get home from checking her into the locked unit you just sit there and try to wind down from 8 days of hell on earth that most mortals do not get to experience so you can pass out and try to catch up on your own lack of sleep while keeping up with her, and you start to wonder if " a nice prison cell" wouldn't be a vacation after 5 years of this being your life. Problem is, they're real reluctant to remove me as her caregiver. It would cost em a lot more. Remind me sometime to tell you the funny story of the time I called Adult Protective Services on myself. Long, amusing story. The gist of it is that at one point from A to B I reached such a point of exhaustion I couldn't go on, and called APS because I wanted to leave. Move out. Survive. They came and talked to my wife, and me and quietly informed me that APS was normally called by someone else. Then they left. I got a letter later explaining how they were closing the investigation. So hey, feel free. They'll probably send the the same officers that show up every time I call 911 and report my wife as a possible danger to herself or others.

Dude, are you missing the statements I've made indicating that I have no intention of committing fraud? Or are you just having too much fun to care? (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: uionlo on May 29, 2013, 12:40:13 AM
Is it possible to setup a special needs t


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: kodo on May 29, 2013, 01:23:33 AM
Sorry about your wife :/ thats sad


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: nagatlakshmi on May 29, 2013, 01:35:28 AM
Best of Luck


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: kodo on May 29, 2013, 01:39:37 AM
This is very sad to read


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: WishIStartedSooner on May 29, 2013, 11:33:13 AM
just ignored a hero member.

nice.

Jim, I hope that dick is full of as much bull as he's spouting...


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on May 29, 2013, 02:01:49 PM
just ignored a hero member. nice. Jim, I hope that dick is full of as much bull as he's spouting...

Ouch. I'm very much against the Ignore button. Where's the fun? (grin)
It doesn't matter to me if he's just spouting or is actually having me investigated. We get investigated by so many agencies every year that one of my main "jobs" is keeping all our paperwork and computers organized for easy accessibility and understanding. Most agencies default action to not understanding your data is denial of services, negative action, Not Good Stuff. Then you have to appeal and it just increases the paperwork and hoop-jumping. I've long ago gotten use to making the process as painless for us as possible with the most amount of transparency to them. So if the hero member wants to spend his money having us investigated, fine. Just another Monday here. (grin)
 
The assumption seems to be that I am committing fraud, or wanting to commit fraud in some way by using bitcoin to hide assets or income, and not reporting it. My stating otherwise doesn't seem to deter the assumption. Oh well. Gives me a reason to check the thread until it dies from repetition.
 
Here's another anecdotal story about living the "entitled" lifestyle: During the 24 month period of time when we got to "pay our share first", after my wife's acceptance to receive Social Security Disability, during the automatic 24 month delay before approval to receive Medicare, "our share first" meant that all medical costs, prescriptions, Hospital inpatient, outpatient, Emergency Room, etc., physical therapy, home healthcare needs, stays at the lovely "drunk tank" (there isn't any other place you can be held if you are declared a danger to yourself or others and you have no health insurance) until you have a seizure and get to visit the indigent hospital ER, and every little bit of equipment, supply, transportation, or contracted service by said medical suppliers is billed to you, and very quickly adds up to $10s of thousands of dollars.
The fun part is that a couple of weeks into this 24 month coverage gap, we got a call from Social Security asking if we wanted to participate in a study they were doing to see if people in the SSD/Medicare gap would benefit from Health Insurance Coverage. The program would consist of 3 study groups: Group A would get a Health Insurance Card that would be accepted by all medical providers that accepted Medicare+Supplemental, and an RN trained in providing HR services to the disabled person.
Group B would receive just the Health Insurance Card, but would be expected to provide all their own HR services. The Health Insurance Card would pay for a maximum of $100K before it "maxed" out and would no longer be accepted.
Group C would receive a phone call once a month, and if they agreed to take a survey on how it was going without any Health Insurance like coverage, get $25 a month.
I was ecstatic to hear we had been chosen for Group B. Without that study group program, our medical debt during that 24 month period would have been $100k higher. I'm glad that we didn't get chosen for Group A because I wouldn't have received the training I did during that time in dealing with the default denial reaction of most government and medical services, and learned the process of appeals, transparency and persistence necessary to navigate the "entitled" lifestyle "successfully". Joy. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on May 29, 2013, 04:32:26 PM
just ignored a hero member.

nice.

Jim, I hope that dick is full of as much bull as he's spouting...


I am full of Bitcoins LOL you probably wish you were me. A top bitcoin member, rich as hell and working on awesome projects. Please ignore me :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: freedomno1 on May 29, 2013, 09:23:01 PM
just ignored a hero member.

nice.

Jim, I hope that dick is full of as much bull as he's spouting...


I am full of Bitcoins LOL you probably wish you were me. A top bitcoin member, rich as hell and working on awesome projects. Please ignore me :)

He-he I loled


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: tinus42 on June 19, 2013, 10:22:25 AM
just ignored a hero member. nice. Jim, I hope that dick is full of as much bull as he's spouting...

Ouch. I'm very much against the Ignore button. Where's the fun? (grin)
It doesn't matter to me if he's just spouting or is actually having me investigated. We get investigated by so many agencies every year that one of my main "jobs" is keeping all our paperwork and computers organized for easy accessibility and understanding. Most agencies default action to not understanding your data is denial of services, negative action, Not Good Stuff. Then you have to appeal and it just increases the paperwork and hoop-jumping. I've long ago gotten use to making the process as painless for us as possible with the most amount of transparency to them. So if the hero member wants to spend his money having us investigated, fine. Just another Monday here. (grin)

He is against tax fraud but he probably doesn't mind the government spending money on endless bureaucracy and having civil workers who get payed $100,000+ annually (with a 5% pay raise every year or they will strike) to investigate and hound a man who has the misfortune to have a sick wife and wants to save a tiny amount of money.

In the end it would be much cheaper for the tax payers if they just ditched all those regulations and just paid you your money.

In my country we have many people who hate paying high taxes but call for more rules and regulations against things whenever they encounter something they don't like ("It should be banned!" "The government must take action!", etc.). They don't understand that they will have to pay for it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 01:46:08 PM
...
He is against tax fraud but he probably doesn't mind the government spending money on endless bureaucracy and having civil workers who get payed $100,000+ annually (with a 5% pay raise every year or they will strike) to investigate and hound a man who has the misfortune to have a sick wife and wants to save a tiny amount of money.

In the end it would be much cheaper for the tax payers if they just ditched all those regulations and just paid you your money. ...

My country's government isn't interested in making things cheaper for tax payers, IMHO.
gweedo assumed tax fraud was possible and being committed. My wife isn't sick, she's dying. Sorry, but "sick" implies she might recover. She will only get worse and need even more government paid for services in the future. Which ARE in the process of being cut back. Medicare is about to initiate another round of "services we no longer provide" cutbacks. The U.S., like the rest of the world, is in the midst of the greatest transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1% ever in it's history. People get angry and lash out. Heck, I get angry and lash out! But I save that energy for incompetent contracted service providers who to take the government money and attempt to not provide the services because they get away with that when the disabled person doesn't have a caregiver. This forum, researching crypto-currencies, they're all just another distraction from our reality.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: legitnick on June 20, 2013, 02:44:07 PM
Sorry about your wife. Bitcoin isnt a very good savings account due to the volatility of the currency. I would have half my funds in bitcoin, the rest in USD.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: tinus42 on June 20, 2013, 02:48:48 PM
My wife isn't sick, she's dying. Sorry, but "sick" implies she might recover. She will only get worse and need even more government paid for services in the future. Which ARE in the process of being cut back. Medicare is about to initiate another round of "services we no longer provide" cutbacks. The U.S., like the rest of the world, is in the midst of the greatest transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1% ever in it's history. People get angry and lash out. Heck, I get angry and lash out! But I save that energy for incompetent contracted service providers who to take the government money and attempt to not provide the services because they get away with that when the disabled person doesn't have a caregiver. This forum, researching crypto-currencies, they're all just another distraction from our reality.

I'm sorry of any offense. The world is certainly screwed up for many people. It makes me wonder how more they can squeeze out of the people before there is any serious reaction from the public. The riots we see in Spain and Turkey could happen everywhere soon. Sorry for your wife and hopefully you will get your life on track again.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pontiacg5 on June 20, 2013, 04:03:51 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.





Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on June 20, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.

Thanks to people like him that will be happening sooner.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pontiacg5 on June 20, 2013, 04:12:06 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.

Thanks to people like him that will be happening sooner.

More or less my point, guys like this kill bitcoin or at least assist in doing so.

So thanks!


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 06:22:01 PM
I'm sorry of any offense. The world is certainly screwed up for many people. It makes me wonder how more they can squeeze out of the people before there is any serious reaction from the public. The riots we see in Spain and Turkey could happen everywhere soon. Sorry for your wife and hopefully you will get your life on track again.

No offense taken. Thanks for the well wishes. And Syria, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Greece, etc. Lots of opportunity for crypto-currencies!


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 06:32:03 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.
-
Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.
I love a couple of good assumptions in the afternoon. Smells like teen spirit! or uh...victory? What? I'm old! (grin)
Assumption #1 "all your savings" amounts to 0. So, yeah, I think I'm gonna go ahead and put that in bitcoins.
Assumption #2 Tax fraud. Hey! Don't try to snake that snark from gweedo! He was there second! And more persistently than the first guy! He's earned the right to pwn that snark!
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-kD1MXBn5MQ0/T0bK0-I3pHI/AAAAAAAAGzc/5WIw5Djvl0M/s1600/Celebrity-Image-Meet-the-Keystone-Cops-1955-250955.jpg
(grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 06:37:10 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.

Thanks to people like him that will be happening sooner.

Whew! For a minute there I thought you weren't gonna respond! Thanks gweedo! My post count would be MUCH lower without you! (grin)

I don't think even people like me that you assume see bitcoin as a means for tax fraud can even come close to hurting bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. Yer entitled to all of yours, of course.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on June 20, 2013, 06:42:42 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.

Thanks to people like him that will be happening sooner.

Whew! For a minute there I thought you weren't gonna respond! Thanks gweedo! My post count would be MUCH lower without you! (grin)

I don't think even people like me that you assume see bitcoin as a means for tax fraud can even come close to hurting bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. Yer entitled to all of yours, of course.

Yes people like you are hurting all the stuff that big bitcoiners like me do. Do you not see that, by committing tax fraud governments will not look pass that? Or you just too stupid, maybe your wife, is rubbing off on you. LMAO

Also again you being an idiot, post counts don't matter anymore, you can post 1000000 times but every two weeks it only counts for a little bit.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 06:48:11 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.

Thanks to people like him that will be happening sooner.

Whew! For a minute there I thought you weren't gonna respond! Thanks gweedo! My post count would be MUCH lower without you! (grin)

I don't think even people like me that you assume see bitcoin as a means for tax fraud can even come close to hurting bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. Yer entitled to all of yours, of course.

Yes people like you are hurting all the stuff that big bitcoiners like me do. Do you not see that, by committing tax fraud governments will not look pass that? Or you just too stupid, maybe your wife, is rubbing off on you. LMAO

Also again you being an idiot, post counts don't matter anymore, you can post 1000000 times but every two weeks it only counts for a little bit.

But I like my post count! I think the things I post are doing good, not harm. I'm sure people will look at my posts and your posts and come to their own conclusions. And I don't even need a private investigator to know that! (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on June 20, 2013, 06:56:06 PM
You are really going to put all your savings in bitcoins? The virtual currency the government is sheepishly cracking down on for tax fraud and you want to use it for that purpose? Seems smart.

Good luck getting anything of value for those coins down the line, especially if people like you continue seeing bitcoin as a means for tax fraud.

Thanks to people like him that will be happening sooner.

Whew! For a minute there I thought you weren't gonna respond! Thanks gweedo! My post count would be MUCH lower without you! (grin)

I don't think even people like me that you assume see bitcoin as a means for tax fraud can even come close to hurting bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. Yer entitled to all of yours, of course.

Yes people like you are hurting all the stuff that big bitcoiners like me do. Do you not see that, by committing tax fraud governments will not look pass that? Or you just too stupid, maybe your wife, is rubbing off on you. LMAO

Also again you being an idiot, post counts don't matter anymore, you can post 1000000 times but every two weeks it only counts for a little bit.

But I like my post count! I think the things I post are doing good, not harm. I'm sure people will look at my posts and your posts and come to their own conclusions. And I don't even need a private investigator to know that! (grin)

Yes your post are good, if you want to hurt the community, that a lot of people worked hard, so you can sit on your ass, and make money from just holding on to coins. But you don't see that and that hurts. Also about the private investigator, he has told me so much about you, and for free ;) so be careful at any time I can just ring the IRS and tell them about your little ideas ;)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: pontiacg5 on June 20, 2013, 07:00:46 PM
Whew! For a minute there I thought you weren't gonna respond! Thanks gweedo! My post count would be MUCH lower without you! (grin)

I don't think even people like me that you assume see bitcoin as a means for tax fraud can even come close to hurting bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. Yer entitled to all of yours, of course.

You would be wrong. Online gambling was pretty popular for a while, till it got big and the feds cracked down. Then they changed their business model up and the feds struck them down yet again, albeit after some time. If you think the same thing won't happen to bitcoin you are naive. This thread is now indexed on search engines across the web, for all to see and use. But you are right, you alone can't hurt bitcoin just the same as you alone probably won't shut welfare down. But you along with all of the other freeloaders in unison SURE THE F**K can.

So, you come to to this forum asking for help committing fraud, because weather you like it or not IT IS WELFARE FRAUD. What do the people of the forum do? Offer to help.

Real nice. But I guess it's to be expected from a forum mostly filled with kids begging for some magical "faucet" of free online money.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 07:18:50 PM
...I don't think even people like me that you assume see bitcoin as a means for tax fraud can even come close to hurting bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. Yer entitled to all of yours, of course.
You would be wrong. Online gambling was pretty popular for a while, till it got big and the feds cracked down. Then they changed their business model up and the feds struck them down yet again, albeit after some time. If you think the same thing won't happen to bitcoin you are naive. This thread is now indexed on search engines across the web, for all to see and use. But you are right, you alone can't hurt bitcoin just the same as you alone probably won't shut welfare down. But you along with all of the other freeloaders in unison SURE THE F**K can.
So, you come to to this forum asking for help committing fraud, because weather you like it or not IT IS WELFARE FRAUD. What do the people of the forum do? Offer to help.
Real nice. But I guess it's to be expected from a forum mostly filled with kids begging for some magical "faucet" of free online money.
Ouch. That really hurt me! I guess I'll just stop taking money from the government and die! End my freeloading ways! And I dared to bring them to such an outstandingly moral and law abiding community! For shame! I'm gonna hang my head and cry now. No, don't watch. It's not gonna be pretty. That's it. I'm giving you equal credit with gweedo now! I'm sorry I doubted yer worthiness.
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Venture_Brothers_9264.JPG
(grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: Obama on June 20, 2013, 07:27:31 PM
Best of luck in your situation. I think you should invest in FTC it has a lot of potential right now.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 20, 2013, 10:25:48 PM
Best of luck in your situation. I think you should invest in FTC it has a lot of potential right now.

Thank you. I did get the info I asked about here. Nefarious as it was. I'd use an old linux box offline as a cold storage wallet hooked up to an old printer to make the paper wallets. Transfer everything from the linux partition on the other old xp box my wife plays on. I'd do everything crytpo online there. This box is just for fun like this! (grin)

As for Bitcoin as a savings account, from what I've read, that isn't a good idea. Too volatile, too expensive, too risky. Interesting long term investment if you can afford it. Alt coins like LTC & FTC do look more interesting as a pure gamble of an investment.

Best of luck to you and yours.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: tinus42 on June 20, 2013, 10:34:37 PM
Yes people like you are hurting all the stuff that big bitcoiners like me do. Do you not see that, by committing tax fraud governments will not look pass that? Or you just too stupid, maybe your wife, is rubbing off on you. LMAO

I hope you and your family will not suffer the fate of OP and always enjoy perfect health and perfect earning capacity.

Now go and report your full Bitcoin earnings to the IRS and vote Statism at the next elections.  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on June 21, 2013, 12:49:34 AM
Yes people like you are hurting all the stuff that big bitcoiners like me do. Do you not see that, by committing tax fraud governments will not look pass that? Or you just too stupid, maybe your wife, is rubbing off on you. LMAO

I hope you and your family will not suffer the fate of OP and always enjoy perfect health and perfect earning capacity.

Now go and report your full Bitcoin earnings to the IRS and vote Statism at the next elections.  ::)

I do report my full bitcoin earnings and that is helping pave the future for more people to use bitcoin LEGALLY. People like this will be doing more harm.

Also don't worry about my health, I be around forever at this rate, and I brought the best private insure ever, so I get to go ahead of the line in the ER ;) It is like the fast pass of health LMAO


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 23, 2013, 11:26:27 PM
In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Yeah lets have empathy for someone taking advantage of my money. Sorry but I can't... Fraud is a serious crime, and should not be taken lightly in any sense.

I'm pretty sure the OP paid into the system that he now would like to extract some value from. We all paid into it in case we need it. The OP is just asking for what HE already paid for. The only person taking YOUR money is the bureaucratic infrastructure to which we fund. 

The OP is just an individual trying to extract the value that was provided by the tax revenue he paid for a benefit he now needs but never used. Just because you don't need it, but are forced to pay it; does not  mean Jim is taking your money. Fraud is avoiding paying what is owed, and taking that which is not deserved.

Under our current system, we are required to pay in and then leave the decision making to a largely inept system. We should at least agree that Jim is deserving based upon the information available; and the system is broken at its very core.

Can we find something on which to agree? Or am I just a bleeding heart liberal and you a cold hearted conservative? I don't believe either is true.

Hugs gweedo.

Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

Time is passing. I'm still not in jail. Put up or shut up Gweedo. (grin)


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: gweedo on June 23, 2013, 11:34:37 PM
In all seriousness, l would just like to witness a little empathy from time to time. A world without it kinda sucks.

Yeah lets have empathy for someone taking advantage of my money. Sorry but I can't... Fraud is a serious crime, and should not be taken lightly in any sense.

I'm pretty sure the OP paid into the system that he now would like to extract some value from. We all paid into it in case we need it. The OP is just asking for what HE already paid for. The only person taking YOUR money is the bureaucratic infrastructure to which we fund. 

The OP is just an individual trying to extract the value that was provided by the tax revenue he paid for a benefit he now needs but never used. Just because you don't need it, but are forced to pay it; does not  mean Jim is taking your money. Fraud is avoiding paying what is owed, and taking that which is not deserved.

Under our current system, we are required to pay in and then leave the decision making to a largely inept system. We should at least agree that Jim is deserving based upon the information available; and the system is broken at its very core.

Can we find something on which to agree? Or am I just a bleeding heart liberal and you a cold hearted conservative? I don't believe either is true.

Hugs gweedo.

Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO

Time is passing. I'm still not in jail. Put up or shut up Gweedo. (grin)

Any way your only 16yrs, it was all a lie. The P.I. who I didn't hire said you are a little kid and he has stopped looking up your information, so yeah.


Title: Re: Bitcoin as a savings account
Post by: JimCGSavings on June 23, 2013, 11:51:01 PM
Any way your only 16yrs, it was all a lie. The P.I. who I didn't hire said you are a little kid and he has stopped looking up your information, so yeah.

To quote your threat:
"Has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives, neither agree on Fraud as a way of handling your problem. This is fraud, no two ways about it, and if ever releases his name I am going to contact the IRS about it. I already started to look into him with the help of a private investigator, it is only a matter of time he is in jail. (grin) LMAO"

You've insisted on stalking me around this board, insulting me and my wife, and now you're equivocating on your threat but still insisting I'm the liar? Why am I not surprised. Balls to the wall time. In another post, you claim a "lurker" hired the private investigator, but got "some good information". And now that is your claim and seems to give you permission to insult me yet again.
You seem to think you can frighten me away. Or convince others I'm a liar. Let's see who has the biggest "truth" cojones. Want the IRS to audit me? Want me in jail? Please, don't make me laugh. What you fail to realize is that my situation can't be made worse. Only different. My real name is Jimmy Hankins. I live at 3146 NW 49th Street, OKC, OK, 73112. My phone number is 1-405-943-1068. I'm 54 years old and your "source" is, like you. Full of it.

Now. Your turn. Prove ANY SINGLE ONE of the accusations you've made against me. Or shut up.