Bitcoin Forum

     
      While the recent action by the DHS concerning Dwolla's Mt. Gox transactions will not be a serious blow to Bitcoin, a precedent is being carried forth which could lead to much more extreme measures. The fact that the DHS is concerned about Bitcoin should suggest how powerful our beloved crypto-currency is, and how real a threat it must pose to the ruling class.
      This is not a time for merely accepting government action as it is handed out. We can not let these shameless impingements on our basic rights be applied without resistance. Why do they expect us to sit behind our computer screens and merely act in reactionary clicks and types as our freedoms are legislated away from us? Because that's been the precedent that we have set.
      What are we going to do if and when it comes down to an internationally orchestrated assault on Bitcoin? What options do the people have against the power elite? I'm curious to hear what the community thinks.

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now!  You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

 ::)

Not all fighting is obligated to be with a fist or a gun

We should designate a weekly open-air meeting for bitcoin trading in every city and town:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/a-push-for-a-bitcoin-buttonwood/

never used gox anyway - btce.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

This is so great! I'm already on it. About to start emailing/messaging people to organize one near my hometown.

It is strong like russian Ox! But in all seriousness, it's so much better than any other exchange. I don't know how, but it's basically impervious to DDoS

Mmmph.  :D

I know, I know, ..I was thinking same thing after I posted it....

But in all seriousness, I think there's more to come. Dwolla is a legit US based company, so it's easy for the US gov to force their hand. I've never heard of the DOJ of just freezing 1 account. If they are serious, which I think they are, we will hear of more MtGox's accounts being frozen or websites saying they can't send payments to MtGox over the next week.

What would it take for them to go after BitInstant? (based out of New York City and UK)


Probably not very much....

Well from my understanding how their site works, I don't think MtGox has an account with funds at BitInstant. Dwolla was a quick target because it's kind of a honey pot.  It's always about the money (I wouldn't be surprised if MtGox's US bank account that someone mentioned here wasn't already frozen (from sending funds outs) and we just haven't heard from MtGox about it.

for every action there is a reaction.

i wonder what role the Chinese will play in this.  there have been hints that they might actually support the Bitcoin concept.  is DHS sending a message?

if so, i'm sure a response will be forthcoming in some form or manner.

Yes.  I'm toying with that conclusion as well.

The Cold Bitcoin War. More hashrate!

Couldn't the US government hypothetically run existing supercomputers to mine all the remaining Bitcoins and just destroy it that way? For the amount of money it takes to file all the legal paperwork and run the DHS for a week, they could contract an ASIC to be built which could mine the remaining Bitcoins in a very short period of time. Or am I wrong about this?

yep, you're wrong:

http://qz.com/84056/the-bitcoin-network-is-now-more-powerful-than-the-top-500-supercomputers-combined/

No. All the non-Bitcoin supercomputers in the world combined are not powerful enough to do this, even if mining worked the way you think it does (it doesn't).

Obviously one or two people out there think Bitcoin is a good idea.  ;)

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law).

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

The rest of the world is gonna adopt it and then the U.S. Dollar will collapse and then we will have Anarchy.

Can you orgasm now? Clean yourself up on the way out.

The rest of the world is also a part of the international central banking system. It's not just the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements

I don't see the problem.

Hopefully, this will be the final push to get DPR to start a hidden BTC:mLClorox exchange. DPR gets a pipe going from the factory to his storage silos and we place orders at the factory. They then deposit our orders into the Clorox silos. DPR can get really fancy and have metal disc separators in the silos so we know exactly whose Clorox is whose.

On a slightly more serious note... Can't kill BTC before Tor, and a crackdown will bring a whole lot of new blood over to Tor. I think Tor/I2P-related charities have received, what - 30kBTC or something?

I am being sincere. The US gov is not evil, just often misguided. We could/should all be doing more to make life fair for everyone on Earth. Kim Stanley Robinson has a good talk on youtube where he explains it better.


Kim Stanley Robinson: Valuing the Earth and Future Generations: Imagining Post-Capatilism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csvroehk7Ww

Wow, mtgox running over tor...as if it wasn't slow enough in the clearwebs.

The problem isn't the website, its that mtgox must have bank accounts.

They at this point couldn't even come close, especially with asics being produced in china as we speak

While slaves being freed, women being able to vote, the end of jim crow laws/open racisim, and other such events may not have made an impact on your life at the time, they were huge events. These changes in law did a lot of good for a lot of people. Are you seriously questioning this fact?

The only reason why politics are so "impossible" today and "no one is worth voting for" is because people like you give up. You just wave the white flag. Are you french?

If you want to complain about the US gov go right ahead. But if you want to do something its called politics. You have to change the system from within. Its not easy. You have to work with people who you don't like or agree with, and compromise. It won't change everything, and you won't get your whole wishlist. Nobody does. But whats your alternative? Show up at the white house with a gun and start blastin. Sit at home and complain on a forum. Good luck changing the world by yourself...

My ultimate point is that while we can point to the government making changes and say that these are substantive, with every action there is an UNequal and opposite reaction. If you think that the ruling class (the ones who the government works for) will simply sacrifice their power because of public opinion, then you need to read some more serious history books. Because we can't force black people to be our slaves anymore, we have to use Chinese and Indian children, who will attach plastic parts together until their lungs shrivel up from chemical fumes. If you go down the list of examples, for every 1 change in public policy there are an accompanying 100 different externalities which aren't mentioned, and which skew the structures of power in favor of those who have always had them and will continue to keep them as long as people subscribe to being governed. That's the whole point of making the changes in the first place. You need to placate the masses and make them think this is their government which they have influence over, otherwise participation in this system will suffer.

I'm going with parody: "Divided we stand. United we fall."  Ummm...

Well I have to say for a large part I agree. I hate the two party system with a passion and almost everything about politics in the US. I would also have to agree that the people with money will keep as much power as they can, and occasionally throw a bone to keep us fighting over scraps. This is obvious.

My problem with your attitude is not with these facts. Its with your solution. You offer none. What exactally do you suggest I do with my time? If I want to change the way the world works, what other than being politically active would you offer as a form of action?

Its one thing to complain and tear others thoughts down. Its quite another to build somethig greater. Unless you can do the latter don't do the former.

You might as well ask which is the correct type of rain dance needed to change the climate.

Your sequence of errors started here:

The US government is evil by definition because it is a government and the act of governing is evil.

There is no way to improve or correct evil. There is no way to use evil in order to achieve good. The only solution that works is to stop doing evil.

If you want to find something productive to do with your time, start looking around at the actual sources of oppression in your daily life. They are much closer to than the Washington DC mafia, and are something you can actually do something about.

If you don't beleive in having a system of government then I can not continue this debate with you or anyone who holds this extreme viewpoint. Its not worth my time

Edit: I gave the trolls way too much food on this thread. Bitcointalk is no place to argue about anarchy for days.

I know exactly who wrote that affidavit - that scoundrel. It's nothing personal, it's just business. If you want cash to bitcoin or bank account transfer to bitcoin you go through American companies. Japan is a conquered nation. Japan is stepping on America's toes. Japan must yield Bitcoin. Mutually assured destruction has denied us world wars - now we fight on the economic battlegrounds.

That is, of course, exactly why governments must not exist. The damage people like yourself can do with a single bullet is bad enough, but what you can do when given access to armies and taxation is beyond horrifying.

This.

This is what I get for feeding trolls. I guess I forgot how these forums can work. I was trying to make a sarcastic point of the realitys of anarchy, not give a direct example of what I would do to you. I don't support large armys, war or casual violence.

If you think we can live without some form of government or taxes you are a naive fool. A child. I also once thought total anarchy was a good idea, when I was 13. Then I grew up.

There is no minimum age for posting on the internet so its times like this that I wonder how old some of you really are. Your promotion of anarchy embodies the mentality of a teenage boy. Have fun with your anarchist friends at the kids table. Im going back to sit with the adults.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North.  Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

Wow that took a long time. I was wondering if their we're any other old Vietnam vets on this forum. The Vietnam police action was a complete waste of human life and resources. I just see Vietnam as Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's decision to kill a bunch of people in the jungle because the French couldn't. We didn't even get cheaper oil prices for that one. Intelligent citizens back home fought in the streets to stop that "police action."

I lost lots of friends and had wounded family because of Vietnam and I'm here to tell you we weren't fighting for freedom. We were doing the same thing 'Merica does today - sticks their nose in other countries business. Thank GOD there were strong young people marching in the streets back home that put enough pressure on government to stop it or we would probably have escalated it to nuclear.

Totally off-topic but...

I feel bad that you had to go over there.  I feel bad for your friends and family.  But why did you go over there?  I wasn't around back then, but were the Vietnamese attacking people in the USA?  When you talk about people dying for ideas, I really do believe that you were brainwashed at the time.  No offense.  Thanks for your "service."

I know what I was fighting for and I know what my friends were fighting for. I don't know who you are taking about when you use the word "we" but your not referring to me or any other person I knew there. I don't care about the French or MacNamara. If it makes you happy to spit on the memory of those who died I can't stop you. This is the last I will post about this.

I appreciate that you supported your country and thank you for it. I just think there comes a time to stand up against any country that makes people of another color sit in the back of the bus or gives guns to children and gets them killed needlessly. But I do respect the individuals effort. Good day

Don't really want to get involved here, but I'd just like to add that our homeland security was left worse off because of the intervention in Vietnam. (wanted to tie it to back to the original topic in some way, if only superficially)

I do respect the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, though. They gave their lives in the service of something greater than themselves, and that is truly admirable. That doesn't change the fact that the politics surrounding Vietnam were misleading, exploitative, and imperialistic in nature.

LOL i doubt some members here are actually Vietnam vet...

I'm not stupid  ::)


If you want to understand Vietnam War, there are many books (even recently published intel about the war). Go nuts. And stay off this forums.

No, I won't stop for you. If the OP wants me to I will but this thread is about DHS and standing up against a government that finds oppression appealing. The Occupy movement marched in the street passively just like the protests I remember from my youth. DHS is militarizing a financial war that they know can circumvent government control. Comparing that civil disobedience to those of the past is more than relevant it's necessary for the sake of perspective. People need to know that they can win!

BTW: I do believe he fought for his country. So did I and it embarrasses me.

You're mistaken.

+1

You speak the truth brother, you, we, have always been able to hold our heads up high.

the real patriots of the vietnam era were myself and those like me who marched in the streets to end a STUPID imperialist war against a country that posed absolutely no threat to us. many who went to vietnam were drafted. given the choice they would not have gone. the more things change the more they stay the same. there are still those who believe government propaganda and join the military to go spread democracy at the end of a gun (or drone). good for them. they are not heroes any more than those of any other imperialist war. if we are invaded that is another story.

btw we were there for over 10 years and lost over 50k men, and seriously wounded and mentally damaged untold others. war is stupid and the biggest waste of resources ever devised. i would hope that those on this forum are more intelligent and spiritually advanced enough to recognize that fact.

the first step to freedom is recognizing that the government is not your friend but your enemy, the next step is opting out of the corporate/fascist system. the first step to do that is to create OUR own monetary system. that is exactly what bitcoin is doing. why should governments and banksters be the only ones to create money out of thin air?

you want to fight a war? invest in bitcoins.

I did both.  What does that make me?

All three now, counting the bitcoin war...

Even this statement downplays the truth to the point of being inaccurate.

War is mass murder.

We're taught to pretend that there's more to it because the people involved wear costumes, but the clothes that someone is wearing when they murder another person do not change the nature of what is happening.

So I guess this turned into the Vietnam War thread. Funny how the internet works....

What?  You were expecting a thread to stay on the rails?   ??? ??? ???

Oh... wait... I see - it was your thread.  Heh.  Dream on...  :D :D :D

Still on topic as far as I can tell:

touché

The US government can be far reaching when it want's to be. Take anti-piracy for example, many torrent websites based in countries thousands of miles outside USA's jurisdiction have been shutdown and dealt with through political arm-bending.

They can manipulate countries on a political level that could really effect a proper network of exchanges from flourishing. All they need is some good old fashioned propaganda, bit-coin the black market currency.....something which silk road and the likes will only ever encourage.

Once that name sticks, it will be hard to rub off, this would be my biggest fear.

+1 You can't rationalize imperialistic murder by saying, hey I was drafted I'm a hero. It doesn't work that way. The human animal is capable of logic and reason. If my country asks me to hurt someone for no good reason I will say no. It's better to die in prison standing up for what you believe.

The financial systems worldwide are drafting citizens into a system of corruption and deceit. The USA is willing to pressure other countries with their military might to keep control of their citizens and closing any gap that allows them to avoid tariffs and taxes. They are currently using a campaign of lies to rally support for this war just as they have in the past. The security of the "homeland" mein führer if not being effected by the use of Bitcoin. Tell that to another drone - this one isn't listening.

Ok you want to play Vietnam War debate.... Lets assume you're all Vietnam Vets,... i still sense you dont understand craps about this war so i'm gonna break down a few points for you

+ Vietnam WAS a threat. The American allies were in SouthEastAsia. The war in Vietnam was to CONTAIN the communist from spreading (mainly from Soviet Russia). Vietnam was the KEY in this political warfare
+ America was under stress of all kind of craps (human rights ...etc) while fighting against guerrilla tactics for the first time. They're judged to be brutal but what the fuck you know when a 13 kid suicide bomb you, villages are their fcking bases
+ There were conflicts in communist parties between China and Russia. Frankly Vietnam was mainly supported by Russia. America saw a opportunity to end this world and got in bed with China. Vietnam was no longer a threat as China was already stopping Soviet from spreading South
+ America retreated , turned blind eyes and let the Republic in Vietnam fall. China attacked Vietnam and spread their own political parties to Cambodia and Myanmar.

Its a shame that very few American get to learn about this war. Heck i'm not even American.

So whenever America fears something it should grab some guns and start killing people? You would have been a great senatorial page for Joseph McCarthy.

I don't believe the attack is on mtgox, .mt gox follows all the rules they are ment to. the attacks will be on company's who are not following aml laws. this is not a problem for bitcoin or mtgox.
To many people have a dig at mtgox but the truth of the matter is bitcoin would still be tiny without it. mtgox was not always this big company, it began very small. All these people who complain about mtgox why don't you make a service better? you can't? then why are you dissing one of the only company's who are really trying?
Don't just spread FUD and hate if you are adding nothing.

So you know how great the threat was? nah you dont, you're rambling bs. Lets say US just sit there minding their own land, then what would happen when Cuba was supplied nuclear warhead and missile? You sound like a redneck than anything.

The whole point was America noticed military power from Soviet Russia. (they're the one defeating the Germany). The last thing they risk was to have a war on their own land. As for economical growth, having allies and political influences all around the world helps tremendously. The economy was booming like no tmr in the 70s and 80s.

Ofcourse, redneck cant see further than his chicken farm.

I think we should resist over regulation of bitcoin. It may even be considered our responsibility. Bitcoin has won the war and is here to stay. Governments that try regulating it to death will only hurt themselves. Places that allow their citizens to use bitcoin will be able to compete internationally in new ways.  

Look at cell phones in Europe vs. America. My Euro friends are always shocked at how crappy and locked down our phone system is. Because of our unholy, lobbyist written rules about cell phones we get less choice at a much higher price. Thanks congress. ::)  

You know how to tell when someone has an unfounded biased personal belief? When they have to resort to name calling to make a point. I'm really not sure what you have against farm workers though?

I have nothing against farmers... They're great and often overlooked. The problem is when farmers start to talk politics and economies, same bs was started in Soviet and Hello Communism.

Every American died in Vietname didnt die in vain. Its easy to judge others decision and not to realize the benefits you got from it.

The ones that suffered the most are the poor Vietnamese ppl. They're nothing but a chess piece. Thanks to the French colony.

difficulty level would just increase accordingly. there are already more than 51% of bitcoins in circulation. so if some illuminati star chamber was even able to create the worlds greatest quantum computer over night they would only get the remaining unmined coins, and not be done until 2140, by which time the foundation could fix the whole problem, no doubt.

stop worrying and go hunt some wasskaly wabbits!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fUzorZk31Ss/Swqk9XXQfWI/AAAAAAAAEl8/-45qayb8Ylg/s1600/elmer-fudd.jpg

its a shame that you don't know crap about vietnam and yet not being an amerikan you think you are an expert.
de facto evidence is that communist vietnam was/is / and never will be a threat. they are now in our good graces/
communism did not spread to the rest of se asia.  imagine that. though it did to a couple of countries and only one remains that could be called communist.
our allies were not there. one former ally was there ....france.
this was a holdover from the colonial period. so amerika in its desire to let the people of a country
self determine their own political destiny backed its ally to do exactly the opposite, thereby abandoning any moral
high ground it may have commanded. exhibit a is the gulf of tonkin resolution
for the record the blind eye we turned amounts to over 20 billion a year we pay to vietnam NOW.
so now maybe someone can tell me why we were there and why we should trust our imperial fascist regime and the bogus money they create out of thin air and force on us and the rest of the world at gun point.
if the dhs decides to carry out orders requiring it to do away with bitcoin it will do so with extreme prejudice

just what is it you are smoking.
the best thing that can happen is for farmers to talk politics and economics. are you some kind of european elitist?
of course farmers now only make up about 2% of the population so it is irrelevant
every amerikan who died in vietnam died in vain. unless of course you owned stock in dow, dupont, lockheed, raytheon, hughes.....then you appreciated the sacrifices someone else's son made for you.
find a thread to join where you might have a clue about what people are talking about

...and this is why politics is as bad and as log-jammed as it is today.  Why nothing ever gets done except for all of us getting sucked down further and further into the cesspool of authoritarian, corporatist bullshit.  Why atmospheric CO2 just hit 400ppm and the RIAA is allowed to destroy the concept of ownership.  Why Monsanto is declared the owner of the world's food supply and no country deserves any help if even one citizen of it has ever looked at a condom.

This bread and circus crap is why most of the world has been convinced that serfdom is a desirable thing and voting against your own self-interest - against health care, against education, and yes; against a sound financial structure - is the only path to personal success.

People who spend all of their time looking to the past have no future.

Stupid fucks.  Let it go.

While I'm not going to suggest that anarchy is better or try to defend it, your description of it is not objective because it leaves out vigilantism and mob rule and assumes the worst outcome.  For instance, local people can put together a posse to pursue and disable a murderer.  Anarchy does not rule out people working together or cooperating to accomplish goals.  It just bars a central authority as having dominion over the masses, if I understand it correctly. 

In theory, if everyone had that same gun that you imagine you having to command control over a husband and wife, you might be a bit more concerned about the outcome of putting a bullet in anyone.  But, in a society where only a fraction of the people are armed because a central authority stripped the populace of defence, you might be more free to commit your hostilities. 

This is not to say that anarchy will have a better outcome.  It is just presumptuous to conclude the worst possible outcome.  It is also presumptuous to say that people are safe because there is government.  Why does the murder rate increase as population density increases even though police can arrive more quickly? 
 

source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/usrv98.txt

In the short term (the next 15 minutes), there is very little difference between living in a rural area and anarchy because the only one who can defend your home is you and your family. 

Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. ~ Edmund Burke

Yep, they can. And history has such a great record of these "mobs" and "posses" settling situations in a fair and unobjective way...

1.  MtGox has a pretty good handle on this incident and they do not seem overly rattled for a lot of reasons. 
2.  All those in the government and other big business who keep talking about BitCoin being of no concern are obviously very concerned.
3.  Dwolla lacks balls and/or a legal department.  (Not sayin' they could have avoided this based on the US laws but...).
4.  This isn't gonna stop any time soon.
5.  A truly decentralized crypto-currency needs to find a way to work around these concerns.

If you're into massively convoluted schemes to compromise the power structures that be....or just bored


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207764.0

Probably past time for /thread, but here's a quote for you:

  The fundamental political question is why do people
obey a government. The answer is that they tend to
enslave themselves, to let themselves be governed by
tyrants. Freedom from servitude comes not from violent
action, but from the refusal to serve. Tyrants fall
when the people withdraw their support.

1577 Etienne de La Boetie

For the ones that missed a great TED talk by Lawrence Lessig about Lesterland (USA).

http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html (http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html)

Meanwhile, on channel two, approximately fifty percent of everything anyone has ever worked for is forcibly confiscated under the pretense of 'government'.

+1.

Why care about what is happen around us when some sports team played some other team and lost? Or better yet... one of the Kardasians flashed her vagina? That is what is important! (
lol I couldn't resist. I flip the Kardasians a lot of well deserved shit.)

But seriously... I think this battle needs to be taken (and won) outside of the United States. The American people are probably not going to care much about any of this one way or another, unless it is somehow presented in a manner that related to our lives in the next few days/months. Big picture thinking is typically not valued. Unfortuently, my guess is the presentation will probably be mostly negative, and people will believe what the media says. (Although I have been surprised, it's not all negative.)

We need to take it to China or another "new money" country. If we can get people in those locations onboard, and start it spreading, the US will have to adopt or we will fall farther and farther behind the rest of the world. 

Speaking of possible places to try to implement, I think some African nations might be ideal because:
- They typically have unstable currencies and that must annoy the people (Look at Liberty Reserve and similar, doing well over there)
- They frequently use mobile phone based payment solutions, so are familiar with electronic mobile payments
- Can be difficult to send money in/out of some of the more unstable countries, bitcoin would solve this.

I know it sounds counter intuitive that their (In some people's opinion) primitive financial system is a good place for bitcoin, but look at it like this... Asia (China specifically) has a high adoption of mobile phone technology and lower adoption of land line based communications because they simply skipped a step in that development stage. Perhaps Africa is a prime location to "skip" the whole checking/credit card/debit card, traditional banking step. Don't waste time building an antiquated infrastructure, and jump straight to the future...

I would not be surprised if that were the case. After all, Zimbabwe is a great example to other African nations as to what debt-money means for their country. There's actually already a large financial infrastructure already established in most of Africa. The problem is, it's destroying other infrastructures (agricultural, telecommunications, cultural...etc)

Sadly, that is the game theory outcome.  If you do not come to an agreement, you can always simply capture or kill your opponent and do what you want to do anyway.  If he refuses to use violence to protect himself, you can always win.

uh no you don't need a government to build roads. the early roads of this country were mostly private roads known as pikes. it was a pay as you go system. many states adopted the model and we have toll roads all over.

yes we now have a government regulating environmental pollution.....hows that working out?
we have a government regulated energy dept. hows that working?
we have an fda run by monsanto. how we doing with that.
we have a dept of defense (offense) murdering hundreds of thousands of people around the world. guess that is working pretty good.
now tell us how many people anarchists have killed........uh huh
of course we have a government regulated finance sector ( cftc, sec, etc. remember 2008?

of course being a statist one has difficulty thinking critically or objectively.
state sponsored violence and oppression has far exceeded anything outside of the state.

anarchy does not mean out of control it means out of THEIR control.

actually when considered against the background of the entirety of human history government has only accounted for about 2% of the time humans have existed. governments are either mob rule (the tyranny of the majority) or totalitarian institutions.

your view of humanity is depressing and nihilistic. if we need external control then we might as well hang it up.
and if you come to put a bullet in my head for any reason you better come PREPARED capiche?

"The reality is that without government and its laws, we would have to band together to ensure our safety-- perhaps regulating our agreement with a charter that defines the roles of our protectors and other regulators charged with defense and promotion of the common good. We would even give those defined groups a collective name. Something like "government." And those rules-- why heck, those are "laws."   -a good post from someone on reddit 3 days ago

I am not coming for you, or anyone, like I made clear in a few previous posts on this thread. You obviously don't understand sarcasm, capiche? I am done feeding trolls here. Im sure you anarchists will coornidate a wonderfull revolution any day now. Have fun with that  :D

How exactly do they intend to seize mt gox's bitcoins :P

Based on 82Th and 50Gh@$1200(Avalon)x1000units=50Th right now anyone can break bitcoin with a 51% attack for around $1.2m.

Add to that some strategic targeting of mining pools etc for when the attack goes in: blocking of IP addresses/raids to confiscate mining equipment(you pirated a song, have your stuff back a week later)/cloak and dagger - oh no your house lost electricity cause someone stole the fuses.

i really don't need to band together with anyone other than my brothers smith, wesson and remington for MY security. of course my three rotts love me

Department of Hamhand Security

If you really believe the US Gov is out of control, the most effective way to reduce its power is tax resistance.

Reduce or eliminate your tax burden, and lobby congress for major tax reform (mainly in that companies like GE and Exxon pay a 0% tax rate through loopholes and armies of lawyers and offshore accounting). The majority of the tax burden - and the responsibility for the atrocities our government commits with those funds - falls on the lower and middle class, the same people who are being relentlessly exploited by corporate America and the 1%.

Im socially liberal and I do believe in some government programs but the level we have taken it to in America, and the huge levels of waste and inefficiency in these programs is borderline criminal. And forget our military budget. Im all for supporting the troops and people who would lay down to protect what our founding fathers created, but where we have taken it to post WWII is indefensible. We arent "defending America" when we invaded Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. Shit, Bin Laden wasnt even in Afghanistan. Our current wars or "police actions" as defined by congress are simply an attempt to project American power across the globe and ensure American hegemony. It has nothing to do with "freedom," and everything to do with power, resources, and money (the defense contractors who pay congress to keep them in the black).

I highly recommend reading MIT professor Noam Chomsky's Hegemony or Survival, available here on Amazon, for an in depth analysis of post WWII and post 9/11 foreign policy in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/Hegemony-Survival-Americas-Dominance-American/dp/0805076883

And don't forget how our taxes actually trained and paid Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets for us. I also recommend Chomsky's book. He's actually my favorite political writer. Definitely required reading for anyone who wants to understand the intricacies of American imperialism.

but you're assuming when that attacker starts to enter the market for ASIC supplies for production that everything stays static.  that's not how markets work.

if suppliers detect get a whiff of a big buyer entering the market they will naturally increase prices. if they find out its a gov't, they might even mysteriously run out of supplies depending on their ideology.  this would happen up and down the supply chain driving the costs of materials way higher than expected.

it would be very difficult to keep this a secret and the network could prepare itself defensively.

When I was a boy in sunday school, we were learning the commandments.  When we went over the one "thou shalt not kill" I asked a question.   I asked if it was a Sin to kill in war.  My teacher told me something along the lines that its also a sin not to do ones duty and fight for country.  

I scratched my head on that one.  I had read nothing about country and doing the bidding of man in the bible.  i was like 10 or so, but even then i knew the truth.  War is killing and killing is a sin.  

Today I know that my teacher was some how brainwashed out of the truth.  That something about country and patriotism was some how more important than a religion she not only professed to believe but was volunteering to teach.  

To this day i wonder why she couldn't just say that killing is killing and that killing in war is wrong.

I don't feel like it's an issue of the US government not liking bitcoin. It's an issue of mtgox exchanging currency and not following certain laws.  Had mtgox handled there paperwork differently I don't think we'd be seeing this right now.


In the long run I think this is good for bitcoin. Mistakes mtgox continues to make is just helping everyone else get more educated on what NOT to do and how to successfully run an exchange.

While it may not be good for mtgox, it's good for the others because we/they get to learn from mistakes without being the ones committing the actual mistakes.

department of homeland security, this must be fake