Bitcoin Forum

So, the thing we've been trying to avoid for years has actually happened: a contentious hard fork.

What are the ramifications?

Bitcoin Cancer Cell is the single crypto sharing SHA-256 with Bitcoin. Thus, miners are free to transition between the two as is more profitable. If Bitcoin Cancer increases in price, the market will subtract hashrate from Bitcoin and add it to the Cancer.

The Cancer is not only a direct threat to Bitcoin, but ultimately to itself since it is built on faulty fundamentals: The big block vision is one where blocks become so huge that only a few datacenters will be able to operate nodes, leading to a centralization level akin to PayPal and credit cards.

The Cancer comes from within us. It uses the same forums, chats and subreddits.

It is here to destroy.

The only solution? Excision before it metastazises and it's too late: Miners of the majority fork must band together and kill off the minority fork.

Oh, I don't think it's as bad as all that.  The way I see it, BCC is going to probably go the way most shitcoins go--extinction.  Like cancer cells that just start to get all apoptotic and die.  It's either that, or it's going to succeed--and it doesn't look like the latter is going to happen.  Too much negative sentiment, not enough advantage.  I say that not knowing the technical fundamentals, of course.  I'm just basing it on opinion on this forum.

The problem is that 80% of the hashrate has signed on a 2 MB hard fork in 3 months. However, the community probably will not let such a hard fork happen. To save face, miners such as Bitmain have already announced supporting Bitcoin Cash should this happen.

it's the perfect vehicle for whales and hostile actors to screw with bitcoin. they can game the price and hash rates to scare people into buying or selling.

the unlimited, ec, xt etc signalling had enough of an effect on the market and it was never more than a mirage. this turns it up to 11.

this is bip 148 for the other side.

Gresham's Law states that "bad money circulates and drives out the good money".

Every long term Bitcoin holder has just been given an equal amount of BCH. The people that believe in the long term value of Bitcoin^TM far outweigh those that believe in BCH.

So if I am a true Bitcoin believer and I believe that Bitcoin^TM is a superior form of money (because of it's attributes and core principles) over Bitcoin Cash, guess over time which coin that I am going to spend first?  ;)

Miners are commercial organizations and would be worried about their immediate profits. Banding together and killing the minority fork is akin to sacrificing profits. What could they do? Mine empty blocks of BCH? That wouldn't mean that BCH totally dies, right?

Well Nekrobios

if you liked that idea of it being absolute drivel
Then your going to just love this one.

Here is the live video of when the fellows doing a live video stream of the fork noticed the bitcoin cash miner signaling for segwit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ_Y0Yj1mkw

They did get a kick out of it as I think you would too. ;D

bitcoin cash may die and disappear in a week but its cancer will continue to bite us in the ass for years to come.
it started a trend.

so far bitcoin has always been based on consensus. you change something or add a feature like P2SH for example. then you reach a high support and fork.
this cancer broke years of smooth forking and spat on the meaning of consensus. tomorrow anyone with a small hashrate is going to fork bitcoin and make bitcoin 2.0, 3.0, ....

I believe its as much a "threat" to Bitcoin as ETC is to ETH. none.

I hold this view as well, some people are worried about the price of BCC but that price is not going to last for long as people begin to dump the coin and it is eventually killed not by the miners but by the users.

+1

In a year from now, every newcomer to Bitcoin who hears/reads about Bitcoin Cash will not know what it is. We will say "it was this altcoin people talked about for a month... Don't worry about it". Hahaha

I think that it is more of a threat than ETC is to ETH. I worry about hashrate leaving BTC for BCC in November.

if hashrate leaves difficulty will adjust and show will keep going .. what's the issue here?

Maybe this will happen in start but latter they will see that its nothing special. They all want to have fast income in exchange for this. Profit is all that all want not to store or keep them. This will end up to be dead sooner they it come to life from my point of view. Hope that who ever wanted to take some part in it will end up with some more coin not to end up with losing it at the end. This will all be over in a month or two maybe is rush for hopping it will be for November.

Isn't Bitcoin all about freedom and financial evolution? Let the free market decide. Maybe those guys are onto something and big blocks work more reliably. Maybe it'll crash and burn in which case we'll finally have the proof that larger blocks just don't cut it. Either way we're going to learn something.

I personally believe that BTC's approach of using a second layer solution for scaling will be more fruitful than a linear scaling solution such as bigger blocks. But we'll only see it when we have it.

Actually bitcoin cash came out as big bubble and the one who have bought that shit at $1400+ have lost already 1/3rd of their investment. Actually the one who have kept their bitcoin in exchange platforms like bittrex got maximum out of it and the one who will now deposit their free BCC to dump on the market have to be happy with even 100$ per BCC.

I am expecting <$100 or even <$50 when all those millions of free BCC will hit market.

If there is 2MB implementation, most miners will still support the bitcoin. So there is no worry if the NY agreement is kept.

To anyone of you who think that BCC is over and will die are wrong. We havent seen the beginning of the real battle yet. There will be BCC pumpers coming to keep the price high to make some of the miners transfer to the BCC chain. To do this the price must be as high as 50% - 60% of BTC.

But can they do it?

in a normal world there are 1 block every 10 minutes on average which makes 144 block each day. 144 * 12.5BTC = 1,800BTC
imagine you have 10% of the hashrate and lets say each day you get 10% of 1800BTC = 180BTC = $486,000

(assuming BCH reached equilibrium and is mining 1 block every 10 min on average) now in our fucked up world you can one day decide to switch your 10% hashrate on bitcoin to bitcoin cash. with it you can mine a lot more because first of all 10% on BCH is a lot more (nearly 80% of total there maybe more but lets take 80%) and also because of this big hashrate rise more blocks will be generate in 1 day. lets say 200 blocks
200 * 12.5 BCH * 80% * $500 = $1,000,000

right now ViaBTC that has 5% of bitcoin hashrate has mined 25% of bitcoin cash's blocks.

of course things aren't as simple as this and i am making big assumptions about numbers. for example a miner can not just sell the coins as he gets them. coinbase transaction (that 12.5) need to stay about 100 blocks IIRC or so before becomes spendable.

Seems like majority miners don't care enough to attack the fork chain. So much for that plan. Difficulty has adjusted quite a bit (although I'm not sure whether it's actually profitable to mine yet).

In any case, the bigger threat seems to be the Segwit2x fork. That's got a lot more backing from miners, companies, etc....

if I understand bitcoin design correctly, it's adjusting based on how much power you have on the network so if u have lower hashrate it doesnt mean everything will be slowed down, it's emmiting btc in about same speed no matter how much miners you have.

If I'm wrong, sorry for my ignorance ;)

Of course the price now is only a hype and soon as many will dump their bch when exchanges have orders, that price will have a big dip and as a result of high supply but no demand in the market.
And I believe bch is not a totally threat to btc as this coin is just an imitation.

what it all comes down to is whether it is profitable to mine. once difficulty adjusts to that point, the coin should be sustained. i imagine, like any other alt, some price floor will be found and it'll get pumped at some point. i wouldn't worry about it overtaking Bitcoin; with any luck, it'll take the BU crowd with it.

you are correct about the "adjusting" part but not considering the time it takes. the adjustment has a period, it is done every 2016 blocks (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty#How_often_does_the_network_difficulty_change.3F) and it should take 2 weeks to find 2016 blocks, if hashrate goes up it will take less time so difficulty goes up to adjust the time again to fix this. and if it goes down the opposite with happen.

things are different in bitcoin cash though. they have changed the difficulty to drop (i think 25% if no blocks were found in 6 hours!) so the effects are a bit different.

PS it is interesting to see what will happen in reality with miners though!

wow, if the bolded is true, that explains it. i was thinking that the BCH chain might just be dead on arrival. that was a smart fail-safe on their part, to incentivize miners.

still not sure if it's profitable yet. if/when it is, things will get more interesting. once it's sustainable from a supply/demand perspective vs. miners, i think we will start to see a healthy period of accumulation and/or up-trending.

btw this is viabtc announcement:



does it means BCC is now in sort of lock-in period?

You will see a lot of hopping from miners. whichever is profitable. This is bad for both chains. Gaming the difficulty.

Conversely, anyone trying to force the entire planet onto a fixed block size coin with low scaling is inherently pushing an extreme PRO-USURY stance for everyone to be extorted.  The only way you're not doing so is if bitcoin used something like Monero-style scaling block size.


Cryptocurrency does not do anything better than precious metals like gold and silver in current state.  It's probably not even possible to create a decentralized cryptocurrency in the first place.  People in cryptocurrency are generally just creating Rube Goldberg machines one after another that are just obfuscated centralization/reputation systems while claiming they're decentralized.

BCH is not the solution, nor is BTC or the other 900 altcoins.  The further you abstract away from barter the bigger a scam the monetary system you're using is.  If you want to use an actual sound money system, you have to use a physical based commodity form of money aka gold and silver.

It seems that we are on a scenario where the only choices are to kill or be killed. I never imagined that BCC/BCH can deliver even worse problem to Bitcoin. At first I thought BitcoinCash will die very soon because it has a very minimum support in the community. And with this enlightenment, it seems we are on a chronic war and we are stuck at the center of this chaotic scenario.

How about the reality we are not sure yet. Everything happening with bitcoin is completely based on the belief people have over it. Same could happen with bitcoin cash in the future, it's in the early days of existence. So nothing to segregate this to be good and that to be bad. Anyhow things has taken place and it's our responsibility to safeguard from loss using different platforms. I personally haven't experienced the pain of cancer, but have seen people suffering. So it would be appreciable if Op removes the term cancer from the thread. There is nothing necessary to mention bitcoin cash as cancer.

Everyone have right to state some point or opinion.  For me bitcoin cash is alt and such it can never supress bitcoin by price or popularity.

Hashrate will never leave because bitcoin will never let you down forever so I would say that think good because it will make you better every time because bitcoin always do everything good. Bitcoin will never do something wrong so I would say that hashrate will be still the same but even faster than before as it is showing the speed.

Miners banding together to kill the minority fork, I think, aren't gonna happen. There's still so much to see about bcc and it is too early to predict its fate. Though I'm not a fan and I don't own any bcc and not yet planning to have as of this moment. But I think it is not that bad and we can't do anything if investors chose to invest in bcc. But one thing I am sure of, btc will be forever and all my faith goes with btc.

BCC or BCH is just a weakness of BTC, and now those who wants to Abandon BTC has almost the same amounts of this new coin and they pushing it to the top, when you rethink about this it is totally unfair.  Small groups can govern how they like. I'm glad to see many people didn't fall on this, and still you can see rational thinking's.

Its not a just weakeness but also an attack window where the miners can freely point their mining farms. The war isnt over yet. Next year we might see the start of a mining arms race between BTC supporters and BCC supporters. We already know Bitmain is for BCC.

This. BCC is interesting because it has large blocks, which may mean lower fees. Obviously we need to let the difficulty adjust to make it usable - but if people start using it to move money, because the fees are low, it has a future.

Trying to synch Bitcoin ABC for three days now.

First I had tried to use the same blockchain until the date of July. Didnt work, the program crashed.

Then started to synch since the beggining. It's on 50% yet, computer turned on all the time. Using another OS because the program uses the same registry as Core.

For me is showing 0 BCC for now, but the transactions until July appear on history as BCC.

I dont know if I will ever get these "free coins".

But I dont see a slow synch like that since I tried to download Ethereum blockchain some months ago (and dropped it after two weeks trying).

We are not afraid of taking over or something similar but why should we give our support to an coin - altcoin? Majority already decided to use BTC. IF we decide to abandon BTC we can use Startis or Cloak coin or Monero, we surely do not have need for this one! 

84% reduction on BCH difficulty. We're seeing block less infrequently. More dumps to come as the chain becomes somewhat closer to normal blocktime spacing.

Its a natural reaction by the holders. But which one has more upside, BTC or BCC? If everything goes as planned with BCC we might see more price growth in it because of heavy speculation.

Sooner or later, an easier way to claim BCC coins will come online. You needs to be patient, and wait until such a service is launched. No one is going to run away with your BCC. It will be there in your wallet as long as you keep your private keys securely.

We're going to see some heavy speculation for sure. BCH does not even need to be fully viable to get pumped once the current wave of dumpers has run out of coins. Especially the upcoming Segwit vs Segwitx2 drama is going to be BCH pumper's paradise, regardless of whether the coin shows any merit or not.

I think the pump has started - it's up from about 0.06 yesterday to about 0.11 today. Part of the reason is that the difficulty has fallen and blocks are being generated smoothly at last.

I remember the risk about SegWit and SegWit2x is gone after August 1st, maybe I'm mistaken? Because after BIP141 active in August 1st, the schedule SegWit Bitcoin going to soft fork and not need split chain as SegWit2x.

the proposed 2 mb hard fork in november is the real reason why this coin was created. it'll be used by jihan wu to apply pressure for it.

https://cash.coin.dance/blocks states "It is currently 108% more profitable to mine on the original chain" this has been 160% recent days. Difficulty stated as beein 17% of the main network.
There should be some equilibrium reached where miners get equal revenue from running their asics on any chain.
Because price adapts as in 10% of the hashrate resulting in 10% of the Bitcoin notation. Difficulty adjusts, too.

BS. It wasn't a contentious fork at all. It was the exact opposite; a peaceful break away. And it could happen at any time in the future again if even only one person decides to support it, we could have 100s or 1000s of these. Shit, every altcoin could have been implemented as a spin-off.

Despite being a BCC supporter and big blocker, I think original Bitcoin will easily win simply due to the existing network effect.

Stop being a pathetic whiner and let the market sort it out.

Yes a scary vision. But its that or offchain solutions enabled by segwit and Lightning Networks, also cancer. What to do?

a datacentrecoin means the whole game is over. off chain hell still means there's a chain out there to escape to.

Or physical gold and silver  ;)

A couple of years ago I was much more in the spirit of bitcoin as the way to defeat Central Banks, the European Central Bank (why you have that name?). Now I'm just in it for the profit which is working out well but doesn't taste so sweet anymore. Money men taking over.

Maybe I'm naive but why can't we have big blocks and some kind of way of storing the blockchain in a distributed way across the network. Would that not allow us to have big blocks and avoid big data centres?

yeah. i'm kind of leaning that way myself too. there aren't enough people who'll resist the lure of serious money. i'm starting to wonder whether there'll be a surface layer of decentralisation to keep people on board, but everyone'll collectively choose not to look a little deeper to keep those plates spinning.

i can't answer any questions about my name. it's institutional policy.



check the node count. it's been slowly falling away. it's blockchain size, bandwidth, downloading. hassle. there ain't many committed enough. huge blocks will take out many of the people who want to keep going but it won't be practical for them.

maybe there'll be some holdouts but not enough to really count any more. but who knows?

Block Size (kB) 1 hour ago like 11.20 (kB) that's not the issue. Seemingly there aren't so many eager beavers lining up to get their dumps through to the exchanges, the blocks aint overcrowded.
The real handicap is about having to maintain two chains, and keeping them up to sync. Maintaining wallets.
That's the real reason for centralized exchanges, people storing their altcoins over there as a service.

The only thing i like about this BCash is that i can increase my Bitcoin holdings just for free :D

For the rest what is worth it, just a cheap disgusting hostile take over.

I'm inclined to think BCC is a legit scam.

I created another Core wallet August 2nd, after the fork, and sent my funds there. Followed Theymos instructions the best I could.

Then using another Windows (already installed) I got ABC and installed it in this other system. Started synch, very, very slow. Tried copying the original blockchain to the ABC folder (which was in another external hd) but it didn't work, the program just overwrite every block as it synched. Let it synch on day and night, got to sleep with computer on.

Now, six days after I installed this ABC wallet in this other Windows system (which I'm using most of the time now), I'm now up to 10 weeks till synch, and it only shows 0.44 BCC. Where is the rest of the stash? Its simply not showing. Now this can be a matter of synching, since it wont complete (it says there's still two days till it synchs, as slow as ether would go when I tried to synch its blockchain here), but who knows, maybe this network is really a scam and the coins are not there anymore? There was a user which reported somewhere his BCC disappeared after he tried to claim it in Electrum... I'm trying the slow, more secure way, but I dont trust it is a legitimate network, or that it can succeed bitcoin in any way.

this is what i am genuinely afraid of.
when the 2 MB hard fork comes, there is a good chance that core devs will start denying it (i still don't completely know why) and that gives that 80% of the hashrate a good reason to switch to BCC.
and it all comes down to price in the end. by that time the major dumping is over and price is at the bottom, a simple pump (specially if they deny 2 MB and drama peaks) will give miners enough incentive to switch.

Thats true. But its not about the merit of the coin especially now in the early stages. Its about the profitability mining it, and right now BTC is 83% more profitable in the original chain. It was 200% 2 days ago. At that rate, maybe we could see it go lower to 15% or less.

When that happens, another pump would make BCC more profitable to mine making some miners transfer from BTC to BCC, and then propelling the price further.

read the assumption that i've made bold. right now BCC blocks are still being found every hour or half hour. there were 23 BCC blocks in the past 10 hours and that is about 60 BTC blocks, that is obvious that mining bitcoin is still more profitable specially with the rising price which is probably going to break $3500 too.

with that said my previous comment was a theory, i am very interested to see what happens in reality in the near future.

If BCC is the cancer cell which could even destroy BCC,then immediate measures should be taken and all investors and leading exchanges should not support trading of BCC.If we now allow such BCC coins,it would lead to even more forks in future leading to more shit clones of BTC which would destroy totally the trust which BTC has gained all over the world in the past years.

So importing the blockchain files from the Bitcoin Core wallet into the BitcoinABC wallet doesn't work? oh well, in that case i may not even bother. I can't spend that much time syncing the network from scratch. And I suspect it would be even slower with BitcoinABC because it has less nodes to connect form and download the data.

Can someone confirm if they were able to re-use the blockchain of Core into BitcoinABC? because I was told that it would work.

ABC finally synched. Seems I was mistaken, it is not a scam, as the coins had showed up in the ABC wallet.

It took eight days to fully synch the BCC blockchain. Its blocks folder actually have the same size of the one in Core.

Initially it didn't accept a copy of the files dated before August from the Core folder, and started overwriting them.

It is a very slow network, and since it uses the same registry folder of the BTC chain, there's no reason to keep a node on it. Besides it will increases the blocks folder over time, as it uses large blocks. I will try to send it to Bittrex, but will not dump it since it is valuing more than ether.

If the majority of people except few datacenters will be able to run bcc in the future, how can the majority of miners, that probably won't be able to run bcc nodes, be able to gang and try to kill btc ???

By your logic there would not be altcoins at all because the bigger guys would gang and kill the smallers and the miners would switch to the more profitable ones and let the others die ???

They don't need to kill it. They just can let it slowly die through apathy.

Use alts to move money around? The fact is, there are now loads and loads of alt blockchains that work, so no need to pay high fees to move money anymore, unless the customer chooses to of course.

Not going to happen anytime soon. Did you checked the exchange rates? The prices have risen by 30-35% during the last 3 days. There seems to be a lot of demand out there. At least it seems to be doing better than ETH and XRP at the moment.