Bitcoin Forum

Alternate cryptocurrencies => Announcements (Altcoins) => Topic started by: WindMaster on May 15, 2013, 11:04:10 PM



Title: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 15, 2013, 11:04:10 PM
http://yacoin.org/dist/img/splash.png
Your Alternative Currency

http://www.yacoin.org/


Specifications
No premine
Proof of Work: Scrypt-N SHA-3
Proof of Stake: 0.05 YAC rewarded per coin*year after 30 days
Stake mining: 30 day wait, enabled with checkbox from wallet
Block time: 60 seconds
Block reward: MIN(100, diff ^ 1/6) or variable 0 to 100 based on difficulty
Total coin supply:
Difficulty adjusts every block
Configuration file: yacoin.conf

How it works
YACoin is the original creator of Scrypt-N Proof of Work. YACoin chose a PoW algoritm SHA-3 KECCAK to further distance itself from other coin creation schemes. YACoin uses Proof of Stake to secure itself from pure PoW attacks.

Proof of Stake is an improved version from Peercoin's implementation. YACoin counts PoS blocks with equal weight as PoW blocks.


Downloads

Github source
http://github.com/yacoin/yacoin

0.4.3 fixes the Heartbleed bug

Windows wallet
0.4.3 Yacoin 0.4.3.zip (https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/releases/download/stable_0.4.3/Yacoin.0.4.3.zip)
sha1sum = 91ee8d1d140169c0af604c9649b977da890f644d

Ubuntu PPA
ppa:yacoin/yacoin
https://launchpad.net/~yacoin/+archive/yacoin (https://launchpad.net/~yacoin/+archive/yacoin)


Mining instructions

Example yacoin.conf file:

Quote
rpcuser=my_user_name
rpcpassword=my_pasword
server=1
gen=1
genproclimit=-1

or type from the debug console:

Quote
setgenerate true -1


Standalone miners

GPU Miner
https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner/releases

Example settings:
yacminer --scrypt-chacha --worksize 256 -g 1 --lookup-gap 2 --buffer-size 1700 -R 1280 -o stratum+tcp://<pool address>:<port> -u <username> -p <password>

CPU Miner
https://github.com/Thirtybird/cpuminer/releases


Pools
http://yac.erlog.pt/
https://www2.coinmine.pl/yac/


Block explorers
http://explorer.yacoin.org
http://explore.grokonet.com/
https://coinplorer.com/YAC


Paper wallets
http://yaddress.yacoin.org


Exchanges
Alcurex - Alcurex  https://alcurex.org/index.php/crypto/market?pair=yac_btc
Bter - http://bter.com/trade/yac_btc
Crypto-Trade - https://www.crypto-trade.com/currencies/trade/yac_btc and https://www.crypto-trade.com/currencies/trade/yac_usd
YoBit - https://yobit.net/en/trade/YAC/BTC


Faucet
http://faucet.yacoin.org


Links & Social
Home page - http://yacoin.org
Forum - http://forum.yacoin.org
Alternate Forum - http://yacointalk.grokonet.com
IRC - Channel #yacoin on freenode - http://webchat.freenode.net/
Reddit - http://www.reddit.com/r/yacoin
Twitter - https://twitter.com/YACoinJoe
Charts - http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/#jump-yac-btc
CoinMarketCap - http://coinmarketcap.com/yac_7.html
NFactor Countdown - http://download.muuttuja.org/yacoin/countdown/
Mining Profitability Calculator - http://explorer.yacoin.org/static/calc.htm
Inflation Charts - http://explore.grokonet.com/?inflation=1
Mining Profitability Calculator - http://whattomine.com


Community volunteers
Joe_Bauers - Wallet development
senj - Wallet development
old c coder - Wallet development, Outreach
Groko - Wallet, QT, Forum, Block Explorer
sairon - Block explorer
Sahtor - Forum, Faucet, IRC
Thirtybird - Mining development
WindMaster - Immoral support


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: zhaojundong on May 15, 2013, 11:08:11 PM
thx
i am glad to see it


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: forsetifox on May 15, 2013, 11:11:04 PM
Thanks for doing this Wind. This is the only other than BTC/ LTC that I find interesting.


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: aikklond on May 15, 2013, 11:22:12 PM

so do we update or not?


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: larkstongues on May 15, 2013, 11:24:18 PM
Fantastic! I'm willing to contribute. However I must go to sleep now :D


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 15, 2013, 11:24:45 PM

so do we update or not?

You can if you wish.  There are no functional changes implemented yet, I've just forked the repository a bit ago and started cleaning up the errant NovaCoin / NVC references.  Particularly on Windows, the UPnP and mining performance issues remain at this point, but those are high-priority targets to fix soon.  If you just want your client to say YAC instead of NVC for now, you can update if you wish.  Otherwise if you're running fine on the official YACoin client, wait for now.


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 15, 2013, 11:36:14 PM
Will watch it too. I wish I could contribute actual code. I can get some translations done tho.


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 15, 2013, 11:44:40 PM
I'd like to help develop Yacoin further. I have C++ experience from 2005, I've made some GPU miners (notably the first open source LTC GPU miner), but not much anything specifically coin-development-related. Do you use IRC?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: anonynonanony on May 15, 2013, 11:49:49 PM
glad to see you step it up.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ny2cafuse on May 15, 2013, 11:51:32 PM
Good to hear, Wind.  You seem like a sharp guy, so I'm looking forward to the development.  Thanks, mate.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: R_Lem on May 16, 2013, 12:02:37 AM
I don't have any programming skills but I'd definitely contribute to any bounties collected for whatever might be needed. I'm not rich by any means but I'd contribute. I'll post it over in the bounty thread.

edit: thanks WindMaster.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 12:06:45 AM
Good job mate, at some time I've found it strange that you were posting some things considering that you hold lot of coins but I'm glad you stepped up and decided to do stuff to protect your investment (mine too, haha) and you obviously know your stuff.

YAC is definitely most interesting coin from all recently made and as much as original creator disappeared he at least had put some work in it and added some innovation.

I'm shit and complete noob in anything tech related but if you need some hard labour help, just shoot me pm.

Cheers


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 12:55:15 AM
YACoin Technical Data
(this post will contain information about the basic parameters of YACoin, including more information on the hashing algorithm which is *not* called scrypt-jane, timeframe for N increases, PoS details when they become known, etc)


The schedule of N changes for YACoin is:

Nfactor   N   Memory   UNIX Time    Date/Time in GMT    Hashrate for 2x Xeon E5450
4324kB1367991200Wed - 08 May 2013 - 05:33:20 GMT358,770
5648kB1368515488Tue - 14 May 2013 - 07:11:28 GMT279,158
612816kB1368777632Fri - 17 May 2013 - 08:00:32 GMT193,995
725632kB1369039776Mon - 20 May 2013 - 08:49:36 GMT119,252
851264kB1369826208Wed - 29 May 2013 - 11:16:48 GMT66,956
91024128kB1370088352Sat - 01 Jun 2013 - 12:05:52 GMT34,803
102048256kB1372185504Tue - 25 Jun 2013 - 18:38:24 GMT18,013
114096512kB1373234080Sun - 07 Jul 2013 - 21:54:40 GMT9,077
1281921MB1376379808Tue - 13 Aug 2013 - 07:43:28 GMT4,595
13163842MB1380574112Mon - 30 Sep 2013 - 20:48:32 GMT2,276
14327684MB1384768416Mon - 18 Nov 2013 - 09:53:36 GMT606
15655368MB1401545632Sat - 31 May 2014 - 14:13:52 GMT187
1613107216MB1409934240Fri - 05 Sep 2014 - 16:24:00 GMT81
1726214432MB1435100064Tue - 23 Jun 2015 - 22:54:24 GMT30.55
1852428864MB1468654496Sat - 16 Jul 2016 - 07:34:56 GMT14.80
191048576128MB1502208928Tue - 08 Aug 2017 - 16:15:28 GMT7.16
202097152256MB1602872224Fri - 16 Oct 2020 - 18:17:04 GMT3.5
214194304512MB1636426656Tue - 09 Nov 2021 - 02:57:36 GMT1.73
2283886081GB1904862112Mon - 13 May 2030 - 00:21:52 GMT1.07
23167772162GB2173297568Sat - 13 Nov 2038 - 21:46:08 GMT
24335544324GB2441733024Fri - 17 May 2047 - 19:10:24 GMT
25671088648GB3247039392Tue - 22 Nov 2072 - 11:23:12 GMT
2613421772816GB3515474848Mon - 26 May 2081 - 08:47:28 GMT
2726843545632GB5662958496Sat - 14 Jun 2149 - 12:01:36 GMT
2853687091264GB6736700320Tue - 24 Jun 2183 - 01:38:40 GMT
291073741824128GB9957925792Tue - 21 Jul 2285 - 18:29:52 GMT
302147483648256GB14252893088Sat - 28 Aug 2421 - 00:58:08 GMT


N is calculated from Nfactor as follows:
N = 1 << ( Nfactor + 1 )

Note on hashrate benchmarks above - Hardware used was an IBM HS21 blade server containing two Xeon E5450 CPU's and 8GB of PC2-5300F RAM (667MHz DDR2), running Debian Linux 6.0, using cpuminer.  4 cores per CPU, so 8 cores total, test run with 8 threads, SSE enabled (AVX not supported on this CPU).  Combined performance of these two Xeon CPU's is in the same ballpark as a typical i7-2600k desktop PC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 12:59:20 AM
(reserved)
(this post will contain anything else I've forgotten to reserve space for)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: nearmiss on May 16, 2013, 01:07:16 AM
really awesome to see someone step up on this!  Really also hoping some of the current YAC pool operators may be willing to share the modifications they made to get YAC working with the standard tools (or perhaps I missed it).  Pools are critical for more widespread adoption, and right now the choices seem somewhat slim.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Hydroponica on May 16, 2013, 01:27:15 AM
Hmmmmm, may be hope for this yet...Good thing I bought a shit ton of them, @.0003 ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 01:33:25 AM
Hmmmmm, may be hope for this yet...Good thing I bought a shit ton of them, @.0003 ;D

Unfortunately for you, you were not that smart (though obviously dying to leave that impression) and spent most of the time being your usual self (prick) on YAC threads.

This one is from few hours ago and it's academic line among all crap you posted :
Quote
Why would I waste money on a coin I don't believe in?

But you still have a chance to buy few thousands up to .0005  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Hydroponica on May 16, 2013, 01:37:51 AM
Hmmmmm, may be hope for this yet...Good thing I bought a shit ton of them, @.0003 ;D

Unfortunately for you, you were not that smart and spent most of the time talking crap on YAC threads.

This one is from few hours ago :

 
Quote
Why would I waste money on a coin I don't believe in?

But you still have a chance to buy few thousands up to .0005  ;)

Nice quote, but that was from a few days ago, actually...And I already bought them, earlier today, at .0003.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 01:41:03 AM
Hmmmmm, may be hope for this yet...Good thing I bought a shit ton of them, @.0003 ;D

Unfortunately for you, you were not that smart and spent most of the time talking crap on YAC threads.

This one is from few hours ago :

 
Quote
Why would I waste money on a coin I don't believe in?

But you still have a chance to buy few thousands up to .0005  ;)

Nice quote, but that was from a few days ago, actually...And I already bought them, earlier today, at .0003.

No, you haven't as it never went below .00035 and guess who bought it there  :D (though all sold at that price was not close to shitload)

But again, it's still cheap, sell your dolls and buy few  ;D

PS. sorry windmaster, I know it's not a place for this and I'll stop right now but this one was particularly cuntish these days, was a pleasure to put him on his place.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: josiasrdz on May 16, 2013, 01:42:29 AM
Thank you for doing this  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Hydroponica on May 16, 2013, 01:44:42 AM
Hmmmmm, may be hope for this yet...Good thing I bought a shit ton of them, @.0003 ;D

Unfortunately for you, you were not that smart and spent most of the time talking crap on YAC threads.

This one is from few hours ago :

 
Quote
Why would I waste money on a coin I don't believe in?

But you still have a chance to buy few thousands up to .0005  ;)

Nice quote, but that was from a few days ago, actually...And I already bought them, earlier today, at .0003.

No, you haven't as it never went below .00035 and guess who bought it there  :D (though all sold at that price was not close to shitload)

But again, it's still cheap, sell your dolls and buy few  ;D

PS. sorry windmaster, I know it's not a place for this and I'll stop right now but this one was particularly cuntish these days, was a pleasure to put him on his place.

I said something nice, about your precious coin, and you jumped all over me...Sure put me in my place...Idiot ::)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: josiasrdz on May 16, 2013, 02:09:34 AM
yacoin was being exchanged at 0.0003 btc (at 4 am), I think it is going to go even lower this week before it starts to recover


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 02:22:31 AM
0.0035 was low but it doesn't matter..

Beat this baby  ;D - I'm making the history, first service where YAC is exclusive payment - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206696.msg2163271#msg2163271


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: josiasrdz on May 16, 2013, 02:26:37 AM

Beat this baby  ;D - I'm making the history, first service where YAC is exclusive payment - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206696.msg2163271#msg2163271
+1 we need more stuff like this


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: coke on May 16, 2013, 02:51:10 AM
really awesome to see someone step up on this!  Really also hoping some of the current YAC pool operators may be willing to share the modifications they made to get YAC working with the standard tools (or perhaps I missed it).  Pools are critical for more widespread adoption, and right now the choices seem somewhat slim.

First of all a big thanks to WindMaster for stepping up, YAC is indeed different from the other me-too coins and it's a real shame pocopoco pulled a Satoshi. I can and will help with code.

Now as to pools, I am test running a pool (pushpoold and mmcfe), both modified to work with YAC. Pushpoold hit a snag when N increased so all shares got refused. I have a temporary fix in place, but due to low hashrate (+-400 KH/s) it might take some time before I actually mine a block on my pool to confirm it really works. As soon as I know it's actually working I will put my changes on github. Aside from pushpoold there's also mmcfe which frankly is an abomination, horrible horrible code full of bugs and nasty shortcuts. Also once I'm sure all my changes work as intended I will publish them. I share your opinion that having properly working pools is critical to the success of the coin in the long run.

Of course if some of the pool operators who have confirmed working implementations already would be so kind to publish their changes instead of riding the greed wave it would be appreciated.

Regards,

cK'


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 02:57:10 AM

Beat this baby  ;D - I'm making the history, first service where YAC is exclusive payment - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206696.msg2163271#msg2163271
+1 we need more stuff like this

Agree, coins should be currency and people should sell and buy with it for coin to be anything other than speculative commodity. It's the only way for long term success.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: snaidervp on May 16, 2013, 02:59:03 AM
nice!!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evershawn on May 16, 2013, 03:12:12 AM
Awesome News!!! Go Go YAC!!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: nearmiss on May 16, 2013, 03:23:01 AM

Now as to pools, I am test running a pool (pushpoold and mmcfe), both modified to work with YAC. Pushpoold hit a snag when N increased so all shares got refused. I have a temporary fix in place, but due to low hashrate (+-400 KH/s) it might take some time before I actually mine a block on my pool to confirm it really works. As soon as I know it's actually working I will put my changes on github. Aside from pushpoold there's also mmcfe which frankly is an abomination, horrible horrible code full of bugs and nasty shortcuts. Also once I'm sure all my changes work as intended I will publish them. I share your opinion that having properly working pools is critical to the success of the coin in the long run.

Good to hear someone willing to share is also working on the problem.  I'd be happy to throw you my measly hashrate to help test if needed.  I've setup pushpool/mmcfe for ltc in the past (mmcfe is indeed messy in a bunch of ways).  Look forward to throwing up a pool when things are stable.

Let me know (pm) if I can be of any help.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dragon2nd on May 16, 2013, 04:53:32 AM
Good! We need an active dev for YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: leadnor on May 16, 2013, 07:35:28 AM
GREAT STUFF :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evilscoop on May 16, 2013, 07:42:49 AM
this is good, and ill help contribute were I can....but....

Can we reset the coin, get rid of yac and all association....
ie this is a new coin forked from yac, with a new name etc etc


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 08:18:49 AM
Can we reset the coin, get rid of yac and all association....
ie this is a new coin forked from yac, with a new name etc etc

Creating yet another new alt-coin is outside the scope of what I'm trying to do here.  YAC is already underway with an economy (however small) built around it.  While the launch was not perfect, and I myself got screwed on the launch as I wasn't expecting it 1.5 days late (and thus, I got an 8.5 hour late start before starting mining), it appears to have been the closest to legit coin launch in the recent past.

I participated in the Elacoin launch the other day and my personal opinion is that one really takes the cake for launch shenanigans and multiple botched launch attempts.  Complete with the usual disappearing developer, the developer adding checkpoints that rewrote the blockchain and invalidated large numbers of legitimately mined blocks, and further, by the remaining miners proposing to hard fork their blockchain and rewrite the client to increase the mining rewards to themselves and jack up their rate of inflation.

In comparison, I'd say YAC had significantly closer to a clean launch.  Still not perfect, but I'd say it was the cleanest launch so far among the recent alt-coins.  I think the primary complaints about the YAC launch were the missed launch deadline catching everyone off-guard, low difficulty, and pocopoco failed to get the Windows client optimized for acceptable solo mining hash rates and get UPnP working properly.  In comparison, Elacoin launched with no Windows client at all, developer had nearly zero experience and should never have contemplated starting an alt-coin, was reportedly (if believable) trying to mine the genesis block on a netbook with Intel Atom CPU, it was basically a Litecoin copy'n'paste, and difficulty was 0 (which resulted in the client actually segfaulting and crashing on each REORG, much to my dismay as I was running one of the Elacoin seed nodes everyone was using).

I suspect the only reason to start a new coin, with no attempt to innovate, is as another pump'n'dump.  There's already enough of those already.  YAC was based on a new twist on NovaCoin that (at least temporarily) leveled the playing field between CPU and GPU mining, and thus I believe this coin launch actually had merit.  Forking it, renaming it and starting over without making significant improvements would produce just yet another copy'n'paste coin with no purpose other than to enrich whoever is launching the new coin.  However, anyone is free to fork any of the coins and start their own.  It's open-source afterall.  Is it a good idea to unleash yet another alt-coin solely to use it as a pump'n'dump?  Not really, in my opinion.

If someone is disappointed they missed the launch, I'm afraid I probably have nothing to offer.  Remember, I missed the launch too, by a whopping 8.5 hours.  I had to throw massive amounts of CPU power at it (800x dual-processor Xeon servers, 760x Amazon AWS instances) and even went as far as custom modifying a set of four LTC FPGA prototype boards (which were significantly slower than GPU's for LTC mining so did not evolve into a successful product) with 20 Xilinx Artix-7 FPGA's each to mine YAC instead while it was at N=32 (and very easy to optimize for FPGA's).  Yet with all that, I apparently mined less than people that got a single i7 PC in play right at launch.  I'm not sure there's anyone here that would benefit more from a complete YAC relaunch than I.  If I were pushing for a relaunch of YAC, it would definitely just be another pump'n'dump "make the developer rich" scheme, as I could completely rape the sh*t out of the new coin with the amount of processing power I fired up last time around (around 3x more than someone could pull off with a single Amazon AWS account).  It comes down to motivation, I believe the first YAC launch was actually valid, but do not believe forking it for the purpose of relaunching it as a brand new alt-coin would be valid.  As much as I'd like to relaunch YAC as a new coin, and as much as it would probably result in me mining the lion's share of that coin, that's just not a valid reason to do it.

Hopefully everyone complaining about being late to the YAC launch will realize that I probably have more reason to be upset about being late than anyone.  Can anyone here claim to have been more butt-hurt than I about missing the launch?  Considering the amount of resources I had to bring to bear to mine less than people with a single PC at launch time?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evershawn on May 16, 2013, 08:26:23 AM
Can we reset the coin, get rid of yac and all association....
ie this is a new coin forked from yac, with a new name etc etc

Creating yet another new alt-coin is outside the scope of what I'm trying to do here.  YAC is already underway with an economy (however small) built around it.  While the launch was not perfect, and I myself got screwed on the launch as I wasn't expecting it 1.5 days late (and thus, I got an 8.5 hour late start before starting mining), it appears to have been the closest to legit coin launch in the recent past.

I participated in the Elacoin launch the other day and my personal opinion is that one really takes the cake for launch shenanigans and multiple botched launch attempts.  Complete with the usual disappearing developer, the developer adding checkpoints that rewrote the blockchain and invalidated large numbers of legitimately mined blocks, and further, by the remaining miners proposing to hard fork their blockchain and rewrite the client to increase the mining rewards to themselves and jack up their rate of inflation.

In comparison, I'd say YAC had significantly closer to a clean launch.  Still not perfect, but I'd say it was the cleanest launch so far among the recent alt-coins.  I think the primary complaints about the YAC launch were the missed launch deadline catching everyone off-guard, low difficulty, and pocopoco failed to get the Windows client optimized for acceptable solo mining hash rates and get UPnP working properly.  In comparison, Elacoin launched with no Windows client at all, developer had nearly zero experience and should never have contemplated starting an alt-coin, was reportedly (if believable) trying to mine the genesis block on a netbook with Intel Atom CPU, it was basically a Litecoin copy'n'paste, and difficulty was 0 (which resulted in the client actually segfaulting and crashing on each REORG, much to my dismay as I was running one of the Elacoin seed nodes everyone was using).

I suspect the only reason to start a new coin, with no attempt to innovate, is as another pump'n'dump.  There's already enough of those already.  YAC was based on a new twist on NovaCoin that (at least temporarily) leveled the playing field between CPU and GPU mining, and thus I believe this coin launch actually had merit.  Forking it, renaming it and starting over without making significant improvements would produce just yet another copy'n'paste coin with no purpose other than to enrich whoever is launching the new coin.  However, anyone is free to fork any of the coins and start their own.  It's open-source afterall.  Is it a good idea to unleash yet another alt-coin solely to use it as a pump'n'dump?  Not really, in my opinion.

If someone is disappointed they missed the launch, I'm afraid I probably have nothing to offer.  Remember, I missed the launch too, by a whopping 8.5 hours.  I had to throw massive amounts of CPU power at it (800x dual-processor Xeon servers, 760x Amazon AWS instances) and even went as far as custom modifying a set of four LTC FPGA prototype boards (which were significantly slower than GPU's for LTC mining so did not evolve into a successful product) with 20 Xilinx Artix-7 FPGA's each to mine YAC instead while it was at N=32 (and very easy to optimize for FPGA's).  Yet with all that, I apparently mined less than people that got a single i7 PC in play right at launch.  I'm not sure there's anyone here that would benefit more from a complete YAC relaunch than I.  If I were pushing for a relaunch of YAC, it would definitely just be another pump'n'dump "make the developer rich" scheme, as I could completely rape the sh*t out of the new coin with the amount of processing power I fired up last time around (around 3x more than someone could pull off with a single Amazon AWS account).  It comes down to motivation, I believe the first YAC launch was actually valid, but do not believe forking it for the purpose of relaunching it as a brand new alt-coin would be valid.  As much as I'd like to relaunch YAC as a new coin, and as much as it would probably result in me mining the lion's share of that coin, that's just not a valid reason to do it.

Hopefully everyone complaining about being late to the YAC launch will realize that I probably have more reason to be upset about being late than anyone.  Can anyone here claim to have been more butt-hurt than I about missing the launch?  Considering the amount of resources I had to bring to bear to mine less than people with a single PC at launch time?

fully support you, let me know if I can help you in any way.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evilscoop on May 16, 2013, 08:27:39 AM
nope all fair points...
My issue was one that if the orig dev comes back, he may change something and make all your work go to crap....



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 16, 2013, 08:42:50 AM
PS. YAC has been so cheap these last days that anyone who missed the launch could overtake any early adopter just throwing a few BTCs on bter.com


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: xibeijan on May 16, 2013, 08:47:10 AM
I've not noticed any difference on may 14th when the N++ event happened.

1) difficulty was supposed to drop - I left nothing
2) GPUs were supposed to take a hit - AFAIK they still own the network.

Answers?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: MyZhre on May 16, 2013, 08:59:49 AM
I think we should re-launch a memcoin, based on scrypt-jane, init N=2048.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cebb on May 16, 2013, 09:01:34 AM
I am not a tech guy so cant help with any technical issues. However happy to pay bounties (1K now and 1K in future) for any worthy cause. PM me when the time comes. I know its not a lot but I don't have a lot YAC too.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
PS. YAC has been so cheap these last days that anyone who missed the launch could overtake any early adopter just throwing a few BTCs on bter.com

This is true.  I've bought more YAC on BTER than I mined.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: jomay on May 16, 2013, 09:12:47 AM
I suspect the only reason to start a new coin, with no attempt to innovate, is as another pump'n'dump.

Yes, plus YAC is listed already and it might confuse possible users if there is a second one. A relaunch only makes sense if there is a need to change the concept.

Considering the amount of resources I had to bring to bear to mine less than people with a single PC at launch time?

If you are talking about me: don't worry. I haven't mined that much with my i7. I was also extremely lucky. I opened the browser in the morning and thought, hey, why not try to compile sth. in Linux? I just had installed VirtualBox a day ago...
edit: I have mined far less YACs than people bought on the exchange.

And you are absolutely right: it is and was very easy to get a significant number of YACs on the exchange. The money supply of YAC is worth ~1200 BTC right now. Maybe that's a fair price for a successful launch and listing at an exchange and some developers + pools.

I am also happy to contribute, but I do not have much time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 09:25:23 AM
I've not noticed any difference on may 14th when the N++ event happened.

1) difficulty was supposed to drop - I left nothing

I suspect a lot of people had the wrong impression about what would happen when N changed from 32 to 64.  My impression from the official YACoin thread is that people were expecting an instantaneous drop of difficulty and a simultaneous instantaneous increase in the block reward.  The reality is that difficulty is based on block solving rate of the network at large, and only indirectly affected by N as the result of N affecting hash rate of the network at large.  And block reward is derived from difficulty.  The change from N=32 to N=64 caused about a ~20% drop in hash rates for the available CPU miner implementations.  I note that difficulty has indeed been dropping.  I've looked at it a few times today and it's down to about 8.1 now (and was 8.25 a few hours ago).

The rate of difficulty recalc after each block certainly could've been faster though.  It seems to move at rather glacial speeds.  We can't change that now though.

Quote
2) GPUs were supposed to take a hit - AFAIK they still own the network.

This one I'm unsure about.  I thought for sure that if there were a significant number of GPU implementations floating around, someone was going to post one by now (as a claim to fame) as soon as GPU mining would have become unprofitable (which by my calculations is probably getting close to becoming unprofitable as YAC prices drop).

Anyone that has followed my posts through the days after the coin launched knows that I experimented with GPU implementation of scrypt+chacha20/8(N,1,1), the hashing algorithm used by YAC.  I never got as far as making it work with cgminer or mining with it.  I just created a basic OpenCL kernel (no cgminer interface), performed some benchmarks at various values of N, didn't bother doing any major optimizations, and decided I needed something that would go significantly faster (my GPU farm only consists of 24 Radeon 5850's and 24 Radeon 6950's), as it took me about 1.5 days to do it and difficulty was already skyrocketing.  At that point I dropped it and went straight to writing a Verilog implementation for FPGA's, knowing that I could probably only pull that off up through N=32 and would have a limited time to make it happen (in the end, I got about 1.5 days of FPGA mining in before N=64).

We won't know for sure until someone posts a modified cgminer what their hash rates ended up.  I stopped mining altogether at N=64, as that basically killed viability of my FPGA implementation.  I can still place'n'route an FPGA design at N=64 but the projected clock rates from the Xilinx tools are dramatically slower than for N=32 with nearly 4x the logic area (meaning only 1/4 as many parallel computation cores are possible in the available logic area) and it just doesn't look like it would be worth the effort.  N=128 won't even place'n'route, the design is just too dense.  So at this point I'm going to state that I believe N=64 kills profitability of any FPGA attempt (with current FPGA technology) and N=128 isn't even routable and placeable on current FPGA technology (at least without going to off-chip memory, DDR3 or otherwise).

Currently I get far more YAC by buying it up on BTER than I would by mining, with any of the technologies I have available.  My GPU farm is mining LTC right now.  If there are indeed GPU farms mining YAC, I'd be expecting them to start switching back to LTC or BTC for profitability reasons either now or in the near future (well, unless YAC value goes way way up).

So, that's about all the answers I have at the moment.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 16, 2013, 10:30:39 AM
This thread is worth already a 20% jump. ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cryptrol on May 16, 2013, 10:43:31 AM
Windmaster, are you willing to share the code you developed for opencl ?
Maybe we can work together to improve it or test anyway.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: thdim on May 16, 2013, 10:51:40 AM
that's so good news, don't give up on YAC, it's the only coin that everybody can mine something! this alone is a huge motivation to not give up on it.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evilscoop on May 16, 2013, 11:07:45 AM
Quote
This one I'm unsure about.  I thought for sure that if there were a significant number of GPU implementations floating around, someone was going to post one by now (as a claim to fame) as soon as GPU mining would have become unprofitable (which by my calculations is probably getting close to becoming unprofitable as YAC prices drop).

have to agree, I speculate that those that say gpu is possible are actually referring to the aws cloud net's
There was some adverts around for on some dodgy sales sites for a gpu yac miner, but they never actually came to be anything...and so likely scam...



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evilscoop on May 16, 2013, 11:30:19 AM
fair point...thx



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: tyrion70 on May 16, 2013, 11:57:57 AM
Let me volunteer for fixing the UPnP issue and recompiling QT client and normal .exe. I've succcesfully build a number of qt clients now for some altcoins the last few days. All with upnp support. I'll have to read up on how to push changes to git cuz i never done that before, I'll PM u windmaster if I get stuck there.

I expect it to be done tonight (i'm at gmt-1 i think)

Great initiative!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: eule on May 16, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
I've not noticed any difference on may 14th when the N++ event happened.

1) difficulty was supposed to drop - I left nothing
2) GPUs were supposed to take a hit - AFAIK they still own the network.

Answers?
My VPS only makes 230 khashes now instead of 315 before. Not sure if related, maybe the hoster got new customers.  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 12:21:01 PM
WindMaster this is a great idea!  


Title: Re: [YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 16, 2013, 01:05:52 PM
First, kudos for your initiave.

* Code sign Windows binaries to prevent modification?  This kinda screws anonymity though.  If I use my own Verisign code-signing keys, just about everyone knows who I am IRL.

You can sign the binaries with a GPG key dedicated to this project and let some other trusted community members sign this keypair with their own GPG keys, thus making a web of trust around this project. Anonymity preserved, possible signature revocation should the private key ever get compromised, etc.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 01:09:35 PM
Maybe pocopoco is Satoshi  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 16, 2013, 01:10:24 PM
Delighted you have taken the bull by the horns, WindMaster. Don't have mad amounts of time today, but I'm definitely along for the ride and will offer all the hours I can. Tonight I hope to get the blockchain explorer up and running, as this feels like something we really need working now for the long-term credibility of YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 16, 2013, 01:18:02 PM
Tonight I hope to get the blockchain explorer up and running, as this feels like something we really need working now for the long-term credibility of YAC.
^ this.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: nearmiss on May 16, 2013, 01:20:04 PM
Tonight I hope to get the blockchain explorer up and running, as this feels like something we really need working now for the long-term credibility of YAC.

Awesome!  This is very  much needed.  I started looking into Abe, but didn't get too far on required modifications for YAC yet.  I'll gladly send some YAC your way for your efforts.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
Another quick text edit that can be made is:

Change all instances of  "Enter a YaCoin address (e.g. 4Zo1ga6xuKuQ7JV7M9rGDoxdbYwV5zgQJ5)" to a YAC address [starts with Y]


Also in net.cpp

need to do something about  strDNSSeed


I also recompiled my version to change

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8;

to

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 200;

which seems to mitigate any UPNP issues.

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8; is old code and should really be changed for all forks.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 16, 2013, 01:27:39 PM
static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8; is old code and should really be changed for all forks.

yeah, I'm behind an overly-restrictive firewall, so I do this to all coins I use.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 01:30:23 PM
How to scrape bter price, I'd make a basic android price check app but don't have idea how to pull the price from there.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: nearmiss on May 16, 2013, 01:33:11 PM
How to scrape bter price, I'd make a basic android price check app but don't have idea how to pull the price from there.

http://bter.com/api/1/ticker/yac_btc


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 02:06:46 PM
static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8;

to

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 200;

You better not do it because you will consume all router connections on outgoing connections and other nodes won't be able to connect to your node and thus sync with blockchain.
8 outgoing connections are there to make sure your node can sync. After it synced, it should allow nodes coming online later to connect to it and sync themselves. Once established,
connection is just connection, there are no differences whatsoever between outgoing and incoming connections beside the name.

Until there is valid UPnP YAC client you can use software like Port Mapper to allow incoming connections. I suggesting learning the tools like it because you never know when some
other software you would like to use might have troubles with incoming connections but there are no developers around, software is closed source or something.


More testing probably is needed to verify the effects, but it works fine for me. My understanding is that the original 8 connection limit is legacy code, and the more connections the better.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: digger on May 16, 2013, 02:10:18 PM
seems yac has some other bugs!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: digger on May 16, 2013, 02:11:09 PM
what's the max coins for YAC?

unlimited?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 16, 2013, 02:12:11 PM
what's the max coins for YAC?

unlimited?

If it's unchanged from Novacoin, there is a 2 billion cap written into the code, but this was never supposed to be a hard and fast limit or rule, and we'd probably never get there even if it was.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 02:14:01 PM
what's the max coins for YAC?

unlimited?

It should be less than 500 Million in my opinion.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 02:30:24 PM
Good point. A hard limit should be set somewhere not in the Billion range though...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 16, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
Good point. A hard limit should be set somewhere not in the Billion range though...

Difficulty scales supply to demand. You have to make a case for difficulty being too low for the near future demand (which doesn't seem the case IMHO), and in that case for the need of capping supply instead of just raising difficulty.

If demand raises healthily then two billion is fine. It's like one million wallets with 2,000 coins on average. Remember the final aim is to maximize demand, not to maximize the value per coin (it's not the same).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 02:42:55 PM
Quote
That's an interesting point. Come on, let's get into character


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Hydroponica on May 16, 2013, 02:49:51 PM
Please don't reset the coin. A lot of people, have sunk a lot of time, money and resources into mining it, I don't think people would be very happy, if all their coins, suddenly became completely worthless...I know I would be upset, to lose my investment


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: R_Lem on May 16, 2013, 02:52:06 PM
Please don't reset the coin. A lot of people, have sunk a lot of time, money and resources into mining it, I don't think people would be very happy, if all their coins, suddenly became completely worthless...I know I would be upset, to lose my investment

It's a client fork, not a reset.
..and it's just wierd to see you cry about not losing your YAC when you and kooke were really nasty to the early YAC community.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 03:28:51 PM
I also recompiled my version to change

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8;

to

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 200;

which seems to mitigate any UPNP issues.

static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8; is old code and should really be changed for all forks.

I think a better solution would be to make the maximum outbound connection count configurable, through the config file and command line options.  As Bitcoin Megastore pointed out, a blanket change to increase the maximum outbound connection count isn't universally ideal for many situations, particularly people behind older/slower NAT'ing routers that don't have many connection tracking slots.

Now that block rate is in the ~1 minute target range rather than 1-2 seconds, the number of outbound connections is quite a bit less critical to the issue of orphaned blocks.  It was extremely critical when blocks were being solved rapid-fire early on, but has become a lot less critical now.

Another reason to leave the default at 8 (even if I make it configurable) is that not everyone is mining.  Miners probably want good connection count to increase the odds of winning the "race" when they solve a block.  People that just want to use the wallet aren't going to be (as) concerned about solved block propogation time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 03:38:04 PM
nope all fair points...
My issue was one that if the orig dev comes back, he may change something and make all your work go to crap....

Majority of hashpower and service providers like exchanges win, not developers.

Yeah, it's largely out of the original developer's hands, as the blockchain is "in the wild" now.  Short of releasing a closed-source client with incompatible changes and somehow convincing the community as a whole that shunning the open source approach to cryptocurrencies is somehow better, there aren't any changes pocopoco can make that invalidate any of our own efforts to improve the coin.

Having said that, I doubt improving the client much was a high priority for pocopoco.  Seriously, he didn't even take 30 seconds to grep the source for any remaining occurences of "NovaCoin" or "NVC" and correct them.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitbitcoincoin on May 16, 2013, 03:42:28 PM

Yeah, it's largely out of the original developer's hands, as the blockchain is "in the wild" now.  Short of releasing a closed-source client with incompatible changes and somehow convincing the community as a whole that shunning the open source approach to cryptocurrencies is somehow better, there aren't any changes pocopoco can make that invalidate any of our own efforts to improve the coin.

Having said that, I doubt improving the client much was a high priority for pocopoco.  Seriously, he didn't even take 30 seconds to grep the source for any remaining occurences of "NovaCoin" or "NVC" and correct them.

Doesn't that worry you that the dev didn't have any long term goals for this coin?   To me that screams pump and dump, and he's likely already cashed out a handsome sum.  I know you farmed up a ton of these with your server farm on the first day and have a great interest in trying to see this thing through, but to an outsider it seems this coin is on life support right now.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: nearmiss on May 16, 2013, 03:44:55 PM
Doesn't that worry you that the dev didn't have any long term goals for this coin?   To me that screams pump and dump, and he's likely already cashed out a handsome sum.  I know you farmed up a ton of these with your server farm on the first day and have a great interest in trying to see this thing through, but to an outsider it seems this coin is on life support right now.

Does it really matter if the original dev never returns at this point though?  We've now got an active developer interested in maintaining things, and services (pools ect.) starting to pop up.  So what if the original dev cashed out and made a bundle at this point, thats just more coins out in the wild for others to buy up if desired.   Are we worried about btc because Satoshi isn't around?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: rbdrbd on May 16, 2013, 03:45:24 PM
I too am invested in YAC and its future growth and adoption. Thank you Windmaster for taking this initiative!! For those wondering about N, like me, I did some code digging. As the announcement post said, N starts at 32. There is a function in main.cpp (GetNfactor) that takes in the current timestamp to calculate the "NFactor", which is eventually fed into the scrypt() function of the scrypt-jane library (which is a LIBRARY/IMPLEMENTATION, not a specific scrypt algorithm) and converted to N as such:

Code:
N = (1 << (Nfactor + 1));

So basically, left bitshift 1 over by (Nfactor + 1).

Near GetNfactor back in main.cpp, the following is also defined:

Code:
const unsigned char minNfactor = 4;
const unsigned char maxNfactor = 30;

This means that with the starting Nfactor being 4, so min N = 1 << (4 + 1) = 32, and the max Nfactor would be 30, so max N = 1 << (30 + 1) = 2147483648.

From N we can get the memory required for the hashing by looking at the following code out of scrypt-jane.c:
Code:
r = (1 << rfactor);
chunk_bytes = SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES * r * 2;
V = scrypt_alloc((uint64_t)N * chunk_bytes);

Given that SCRYPT_BLOCK_BYTES is defined as 64, and rfactor = 0 (as passed in), chunk_bytes = 64 * 1 * 2, or 128. So to get the memory in bytes required for a given Nval, just do Nval * 128. To get it in KB, just do Nval * 128 / 1024, or simply Nval / 8 (as a shortcut).

EDIT: See the next page for an improved python script I've created to calculate N and memory required for hashing

Looking at the graphed data, it appears that N very roughly approximates Moore's law (with some step lengths being shorter than 18/24 months, and others being larger).
EDIT: As I graphed it out 20 years...this approximation doesn't really hold that well...unless my python adaptation is incorrect.

Assuming my data is correct, what is everyone's opinion of N's growth? Does it seem realistic to a) keep GPUs out and b) keep CPU mining feasible?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: R_Lem on May 16, 2013, 03:57:25 PM
Doesn't that worry you that the dev didn't have any long term goals for this coin?   To me that screams pump and dump, and he's likely already cashed out a handsome sum.  I know you farmed up a ton of these with your server farm on the first day and have a great interest in trying to see this thing through, but to an outsider it seems this coin is on life support right now.

With any of these alt coins going forward, they'll be only as good as the community behind them. It's still very early on in a crypto-currency world and imo there's going to be many coins that have different levels of value far above what they are today. The window to get big in these early stages won't last too long, but atm it's still open.
Some coins may come along and even overtake bitcoin. However unlikely, it's not impossible.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 03:58:26 PM
Delighted you have taken the bull by the horns, WindMaster. Don't have mad amounts of time today, but I'm definitely along for the ride and will offer all the hours I can. Tonight I hope to get the blockchain explorer up and running, as this feels like something we really need working now for the long-term credibility of YAC.

+1

A close examination of the first few thousand blocks will be especially interesting.  It may or may not reveal how many YAC the original developer mined, depending whether he mined everything into one coinbase wallet address or not.  I think it's reasonable to believe the address the first block after the genesis block was mined to is likely to be part of pocopoco's mining operation or someone tipped off to the launch ahead of time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Hydroponica on May 16, 2013, 03:59:07 PM
Please don't reset the coin. A lot of people, have sunk a lot of time, money and resources into mining it, I don't think people would be very happy, if all their coins, suddenly became completely worthless...I know I would be upset, to lose my investment

It's a client fork, not a reset.
..and it's just wierd to see you cry about not losing your YAC when you and kooke were really nasty to the early YAC community.

Yes, I was an original supporter, actually, then the Dev, pumped, dumped and abondoned the coin. Once I saw this thread, I immediately purchased 1 BTC worth, at ~ 0.0003...And looks like it was the right choice, because the value has doubled.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 04:05:24 PM
This thread is probably giving RMS a huge chubby...  ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 04:15:03 PM
Let me volunteer for fixing the UPnP issue and recompiling QT client and normal .exe. I've succcesfully build a number of qt clients now for some altcoins the last few days. All with upnp support. I'll have to read up on how to push changes to git cuz i never done that before, I'll PM u windmaster if I get stuck there.

I expect it to be done tonight (i'm at gmt-1 i think)

Great initiative!

I'd prefer to build the binaries on this end, if I'm attaching my name and reputation (what little I have, anyway) to the integrity of the binaries and posting MD5 hashes to claim that I'm aware the binaries accurately represent what's in the source.  Not that people should particularly trust binaries from any unknown third party anyway though (especially in the cryptocurrency community, and that includes trusting binaries from me) and should take the proper precautions by running them in a VM or sandbox, or building them from source themselves.  Still, even if binaries from me are not to be trusted, over time we may be able to build up a level of trust that binaries I've posted and given my "stamp of approval" are legit.  Maintaining tight control over binary production is probably important for building that trust over time.

After all, a huge amount of the early FUD issue surrounding YACoin was a false allegation that certain versions of the compiled Windows client contained a Bitcoin wallet stealer, with multiple shill accounts on bitcointalk all claiming their Bitcoins were stolen.  We need to implement whatever changes are practical to reduce the likelihood of similar FUD campaigns in the future.

Absolutely do hop in and start working out what changes are needed to get UPnP fixed up for Windows though.  We'll get the changes committed to the repository and tested, then we can move on to the next issue(s) on the list (BTW, bug/feature improvement list is now in the 2nd post in this thread).


You can sign the binaries with a GPG key dedicated to this project and let some other trusted community members sign this keypair with their own GPG keys, thus making a web of trust around this project. Anonymity preserved, possible signature revocation should the private key ever get compromised, etc.

Good point, signing with GPG keys may be a viable option.  Other trusted community members may not necessarily be able to vouch for the binaries being legit and untampered though, prior to a sufficient amount of trust in my fork of the YACoin client being established.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: fishboy on May 16, 2013, 04:15:29 PM
when's the release of the windows client ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 04:17:43 PM
when's the release of the windows client ?

After enough meaningful improvements have been made to make it worthwhile for people to upgrade from the official client.  At this point the changes made so far are mostly cosmetic, renaming lingering NovaCoin / NVC references that pocopoco should've cleaned up originally.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: rbdrbd on May 16, 2013, 04:25:08 PM
when's the release of the windows client ?

After enough meaningful improvements have been made to make it worthwhile for people to upgrade from the official client.  At this point the changes made so far are mostly cosmetic, renaming lingering NovaCoin / NVC references that pocopoco should've cleaned up originally.

Once we get a release I'll update the YaCoin information thread with the updated client info, if it looks like the reception in this thread is good. I'll keep the link to the old one around as well for reference.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: fishboy on May 16, 2013, 04:27:34 PM
when's the release of the windows client ?

After enough meaningful improvements have been made to make it worthwhile for people to upgrade from the official client.  At this point the changes made so far are mostly cosmetic, renaming lingering NovaCoin / NVC references that pocopoco should've cleaned up originally.

Once we get a release I'll update the YaCoin information thread with the updated client info, if it looks like the reception in this thread is good. I'll keep the link to the old one around as well for reference.


windmaster, you should try to join the YAC forums so that you'd also be updated ... according to one of the admins there pocopoco is busy IRL at the moment


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 04:59:13 PM
Another reason to leave the default at 8 (even if I make it configurable) is that not everyone is mining.  Miners probably want good connection count to increase the odds of winning the "race" when they solve a block.  People that just want to use the wallet aren't going to be (as) concerned about solved block propogation time.

There is a nasty attack if some node can't accept incoming connections and it is limited to 1 or few outgoing connections. If such node connects to rogue (enemy) node or few of
them, it won't be able to sync with legit blockchain until eventualy it starts dropping connections to rogue nodes and go lucky with picking some legit node out of the peers.dat file.

Indeed.  If I make the max outbound connection count configurable, I'll use 8 as the minimum setting as well as the default.  Then someone would have to modify the source themselves to get it down to 1, and if they do that, they're on their own anyway.  Anyone have a case for the minimum configurable outbound count (in the case of making this a config file and command line option) being a number other than 8?


Here I am asuming node actualy had some legit nodes in peers.dat prior to connecting to rogue node. In the case that node is run by user who just installed YAC, if such node connects
to rogue nodes only it would never sync with legit blockchain because rogue nodes would surely share only IPs of the other rogue nodes.

I seem to recall the client is set up to connect to a certain IRC channel on the Freenode servers to locate other peer IP's.  Now that there's enough people running YACoin nodes/clients, it may be hard for a rogue operator to poison the list of available peers unless someone disables IRC (irc=0).  I need to double-check that the IRC portion is currently working correctly for peer discovery.

Some attention to the seed nodes are probably in order to ensure someone starting up the client for the first time will still accomplish something if the IRC-based peer discovery method fails.  Current official client source doesn't have any seed nodes set.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 16, 2013, 05:12:22 PM
Another quick text edit that can be made is:

Change all instances of  "Enter a YaCoin address (e.g. 4Zo1ga6xuKuQ7JV7M9rGDoxdbYwV5zgQJ5)" to a YAC address [starts with Y]


Also in net.cpp

need to do something about  strDNSSeed

That was my point about strDNSSeed.

Currently in Novacoin it is:

Code:
static const char *strDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"seed", "seed.ppcoin.net"},
    {"tnseed", "tnseed.ppcoin.net"},
};

Bitcoin setup a condition for testnet and is:

Code:
static const char *strMainNetDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"bitcoin.sipa.be", "seed.bitcoin.sipa.be"},
    {"bluematt.me", "dnsseed.bluematt.me"},
    {"dashjr.org", "dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org"},
    {"xf2.org", "bitseed.xf2.org"},
    {NULL, NULL}
};


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
Another quick text edit that can be made is:

Change all instances of  "Enter a YaCoin address (e.g. 4Zo1ga6xuKuQ7JV7M9rGDoxdbYwV5zgQJ5)" to a YAC address [starts with Y]


Also in net.cpp

need to do something about  strDNSSeed

That was my point about strDNSSeed.

Currently in Novacoin it is:

Code:
static const char *strDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"seed", "seed.ppcoin.net"},
    {"tnseed", "tnseed.ppcoin.net"},
};

Yeah, looks like we do need to do something about strDNSSeed.  An earlier commit by pocopoco had a couple hard-coded IP's as seed nodes, then they were removed from the source when the coin was launched.  So right now, we have:

Code:
static const char *strDNSSeed[][2] = {
    //{"yacoin.org", "seed.novacoin.su"},
};

So, no seed nodes at all.  Now the question is what we should select for seed nodes.  The ideal scenario is that we have (at least) 2, operated long-term by two separate parties.  I may be willing to operate one seed node long-term.  Anyone else have a server that's going to be operating yacoind for the long-term that can be used as a seed node?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 06:17:13 PM
This means that with the starting Nfactor being 4, so min N = 1 << (4 + 1) = 32, and the max Nfactor would be 30, so max N = 1 << (30 + 1) = 2147483648.

I've taken some of the code out to VBA and have created an excel spreadsheet graphing N over the next 10 years. Download it at http://goo.gl/pQqkI

Please feel free to review the code and let me know if there are any errors, as well as using the spreadsheet for your own needs around YAC.

Thanks for working up a spreadsheet.  I haven't looked closely at the accuracy of the data, although I did note that it showed N=64 only for one day before jumping to N=128.  I haven't continued watching N since I stopped mining when N went to 64 (thus invalidating my FPGA implementation).  When I have a moment, I'll bring out the C code in GetNfactor() into a small standalone program to verify the timestamps for Nfactor++ events.  Your data is different than what pocopoco (or perhaps it was someone else, can't remember) posted a while back in the official YACoin thread for the time vs. Nfactor++ events, but that doesn't mean what pocopoco posted was correct either.  :)


Looking at the graphed data, it appears that N very roughly approximates Moore's law (with some step lengths being shorter than 18/24 months, and others being larger).

Assuming my data is correct, what is everyone's opinion of N's growth? Does it seem realistic to a) keep GPUs out and b) keep CPU mining feasible?

Offhand, for question (b), it appears from your data that CPU mining continues being feasible for quite a long time.  Your data shows 512MB needed to calculate a hash in the year 2023, and that's an amount of RAM that I think everyone probably has available today for hashing.  Disclaimer - I haven't double-checked that your data is correct.

On question (a), I doubt 512MB needed to hash is enough to exclude GPU's, especially a decade out.  It may be enough to keep GPU's from having a huge massive advantage over CPU's once both technologies start having to hit slow external RAM and not fast internal L1/L2 caches, but we won't know for sure until we see what the future holds for GPU development, amounts of RAM on GPU's (and thus how many simultaneous hashes can be calculated in parallel), whether GPU's start getting massive quantities of fast L1/L2 cache like CPU's, what the ratio of L1/L2 cache in CPU's vs. GPU's looks like in a decade, etc..  Probably too early to tell.  We also need to see some of the GPU implementations or adaptations of cgminer released so we can see what they're achieving for hash rates.  Unlike Litecoin, where (almost) everyone derived their OpenCL implementation from Reaper, for YACoin, I suspect there were multiple independent adaptations of cgminer that occurred with no direct contact between the people performing each implementation.  Too early to tell on that as well, or determine exactly how widespread GPU mining of YACoin actually was/is.

The possibility also exists that other technologies other than CPU and GPU options come into existence and widespread application during that timeframe that we can't yet anticipate, or that someone could identify a TMTO shortcut in scrypt+chacha20/8, as happened with the TMTO shortcut for scrypt+salsa20/8 that made GPU's practical for calculating Litecoin hashes.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 06:21:29 PM
Another quick text edit that can be made is:

Change all instances of  "Enter a YaCoin address (e.g. 4Zo1ga6xuKuQ7JV7M9rGDoxdbYwV5zgQJ5)" to a YAC address [starts with Y]

Roger that, adding that to the bug list in the 2nd post in the thread.  Thanks for the bug find!

EDIT - Merged Joe_Bauers git pull request fixing this bug.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: wesleyrbk on May 16, 2013, 06:27:39 PM
I'm going all-in YAC because of this development.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: aikklond on May 16, 2013, 06:58:07 PM
I sent 500 YAC from local wallet to BTER an hour ago and still 0 confirmations...

I have not updated the original wallet.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 16, 2013, 07:12:13 PM
I sent 500 YAC from local wallet to BTER an hour ago and still 0 confirmations...

I have not updated the original wallet.

Selling is forbidden at the moment, only buying  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 07:34:34 PM
Let me volunteer for fixing the UPnP issue and recompiling QT client and normal .exe. I've succcesfully build a number of qt clients now for some altcoins the last few days. All with upnp support. I'll have to read up on how to push changes to git cuz i never done that before, I'll PM u windmaster if I get stuck there.

I expect it to be done tonight (i'm at gmt-1 i think)

Great initiative!

Out of curiosity, have you already checked into what was amiss on UPnP for Windows in the official client?  I have not yet dug in to see why it was disabled for pocopoco's Windows client build.  Was it just not enabled (built with USE_UPNP=- or USE_UPNP=0), or is the code broken?

EDIT - Oh, I see it:

makefile.mingw:

Quote
# Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
# Distributed under the MIT/X11 software license, see the accompanying
# file COPYING or http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php.

USE_UPNP:=0
USE_IPV6:=1


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: tyrion70 on May 16, 2013, 09:08:09 PM
Yeah.. But I'm stuck on the scrypt thingy (some other ppl to...)

Code:
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h: In function 'scrypt_romix_nop':

src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8:37: warning: unused parameter
'blocks' [-Wunused-parameter]
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8:52: warning: unused parameter
'nblocks' [-Wunused-parameter]
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h: In function 'scrypt_romix_conve
rt_endian':
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:13:48: warning: unused parameter
 'blocks' [-Wunused-parameter]
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:13:63: warning: unused parameter
 'nblocks' [-Wunused-parameter]
In file included from src\scrypt-jane\scrypt-jane.c:13:0:
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h: At top level:
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:9:2: warning: missing initializ
er [-Wmissing-field-initializers]
src\scrypt-jane\/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:9:2: warning: (near initializat
ion for 'post_settings[2].salt') [-Wmissing-field-initializers]
{standard input}: Assembler messages:
{standard input}:23: Warning: .type pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignore
d.
{standard input}:23: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character is
 `h'
{standard input}:24: Warning: .size pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignore
d.
{standard input}:24: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character is
 `h'
{standard input}:142: Warning: .type pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignor
ed.
{standard input}:142: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character i
s `s'
{standard input}:143: Warning: .size pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignor
ed.
{standard input}:143: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character i
s `s'
{standard input}:265: Warning: .type pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignor
ed.
{standard input}:265: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character i
s `s'
{standard input}:266: Warning: .size pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignor
ed.
{standard input}:266: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character i
s `s'
{standard input}:398: Warning: .type pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignor
ed.
{standard input}:398: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character i
s `s'
{standard input}:399: Warning: .size pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignor
ed.
{standard input}:399: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character i
s `s'
mingw32-make: *** [build/scrypt-jane.o] Error 1

Still haven't found a fix for this..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: rbdrbd on May 16, 2013, 09:16:53 PM
Here's an improved version to generate values of N over a specified range I whipped up in Python:

Code:
import sys
import time
import datetime
import csv

minNfactor = 4
maxNfactor = 30
nChainStartTime = 1367991200

def GetNfactor(nTimestamp):
    l = 0
    if nTimestamp <= nChainStartTime:
        return 4

    s = nTimestamp - nChainStartTime
    while ((s >> 1) > 3):
        l += 1
        s >>= 1

    s &= 3
    n = (l * 170 + s * 25 - 2320) / 100;

    if n < 0: n = 0

    assert n <= 255
    return min(max(n, minNfactor), maxNfactor);

def GetN(nTimestamp):
    Nfactor = GetNfactor(nTimestamp)
    return (1 << (Nfactor + 1))


while True:
    numDaysOut = raw_input("Generate N for how many days out? (e.g. 365): ")
    try:
        numDaysOut = int(numDaysOut)
        assert numDaysOut >= 1
    except:
        print "Invalid value. Must be numeric."
        continue
    else: break

while True:
    quantization = raw_input("Output a value of N for each X second period (e.g. 86400 = 1 day period): ")
    try:
        quantization = int(quantization)
        assert quantization >= 1
    except:
        print "Invalid value. Must be numeric."
        continue
    else: break

#startTS = time.mktime(datetime.datetime.utcnow().timetuple())
startTS = nChainStartTime #may 8th 2013
endTS = int(startTS + (numDaysOut*86400))

# rows are datetime string, TS, N, KB (N/8)
with open('output.csv', 'wb') as csvfile:
    outWriter = csv.writer(csvfile)
    for ts in xrange(startTS, endTS, quantization):
        nVal = GetN(ts)
        outWriter.writerow([datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(ts).strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'), ts, nVal, nVal/8])

I ran the program out 20 years and have saved the graphed output to http://goo.gl/2XsaU

To run this program, make sure you have python downloaded and installed on your computer (python.org). Save the code above as yacCalcN.py, then, open up a command prompt and invoke it. You will be prompted for some data. For example:
Code:
# python yacCalcN.py
Generate N for how many days out? (e.g. 365): 365
Output a value of N for each X second period (e.g. 86400 = 1 day period): 86400

.csv output will be saved to output.csv, which will be able to be opened in MS excel for charting/manipulation.

The data this output produces is a bit different than what's produced by the initial VBA version. I trust this code over that (I don't know VBA very well at all). Please check the code over and let me know what you think. May be good to compare it against a plain old C++ version just in case the python datatypes are doing something different than C++ would.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 09:27:01 PM
I ran the program out 20 years and have saved the graphed output to http://goo.gl/2XsaU

Could you take screenshot and upload it to Imgur or somewhere else then post it here?

+1

Additionally, I'd like to post a graph in one of my posts on the first page of this thread, which I reserved for storing technical data on the hashing algorithm, Nfactor++ increase schedule, etc..


Here's an improved version to generate values of N over a specified range I whipped up in Python:

...

The data this output produces is a bit different than what's produced by the initial VBA version. I trust this code over that (I don't know VBA very well at all). Please check the code over and let me know what you think. May be good to compare it against a plain old C++ version just in case the python datatypes are doing something different than C++ would.

First glance at the data looks better than the earlier VBA version.  On this one, the transition from N=64 to N=128 happens in approximately the right timeframe, while the earlier VBA version was off by a few days.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: rbdrbd on May 16, 2013, 09:33:05 PM
I ran the program out 20 years and have saved the graphed output to http://goo.gl/2XsaU

Could you take screenshot and upload it to Imgur or somewhere else then post it here?

Over the next 1 year:
http://i.imgur.com/bj2NdbC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dMaPMsF.jpg

Over the next 20 years:
http://i.imgur.com/03tofEI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wMDFHmE.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Kruncha on May 16, 2013, 09:33:35 PM
I just want to say, Good job everyone working on this (especially WindMaster). I wish I could help in some way (I do promote YAC when I can in the newbie section).

I'm no good at programming, or code. But I can be dramatic, and on occasion funny:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203342.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203342.0)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205499 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205499)

If there's any thing I can do to help, let me know.

K.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 16, 2013, 11:15:13 PM
Thanks for the graphs. If I understood them correctly, there will be a period of time when using CGMiner as it is (no modifications) will allow YAC GPU mining (N=1024).

The hashing algorithm used in the OpenCL kernel for scrypt in cgminer has the wrong mixing and hash function to use it as-is.  Litecoin uses scrypt+salsa20/8(1024,1,1) and YAC uses scrypt+chacha20/8(N,1,1).  So, the mixing algorithm was changed to chacha, and the (intermediate) hash function was changed to SHA3 (Keccak).  Unmodified cgminer scrypt kernel won't work for YAC even at N=1024.  If it were just an issue of what N is, the value of N can be changed in the cgminer OpenCL scrypt kernel with just a couple tweaks (looking for all instances of 1024 in the OpenCL source gets you close).  I think that's what most people were expecting prior to the coin's launch, that it would be identical to Litecoin's scrypt, just with a different N, and I think a ton of people had already modified N in cgminer in anticipation.  I think the change to a completely different hash and mix caught everyone by surprise.

If someone modifies cgminer's OpenCL kernel in such a way that it would work at N=1024, it would actually work right now at N=64 too.  There's definitely a whole lot more to it, or else people would've claimed the bounty for a YAC cgminer within about 60 seconds!

I bet in June, there's going to be a bunch of people that try to fire up cgminer when N becomes 1024.  Half of them are going to think it's working if they're solo mining (thus not expecting to hit blocks often and not getting obvious rejected shares that would tip them off to a problem).  They'll never actually mine any blocks though with an unmodified cgminer (disclaimer: unless someone releases a modified cgminer between now and then, but then that wouldn't depend on N being 1024).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 17, 2013, 01:21:03 AM
static const int MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS = 8; is old code and should really be changed for all forks.

yeah, I'm behind an overly-restrictive firewall, so I do this to all coins I use.

I just committed changes to the git repository to implement configurable maximum outbound connection count.  As per Bitcoin Megastore's comments, I have limited the range of the parameter so you can't set it to excessively small numbers.  Currently I have the lower limit that you can set this parameter to as 4, and the upper limit as 100.  Additionally, I implemented range limits for the maxconnections= parameter as well to prevent it from being set lower than 8 or higher than 1000.

Command line parameter:
-maxoutbound=N    (where N=maximum number of outbound connections, default of 8, range of 4-100)

Alternatively, set it in yacoin.conf as:
maxoutbound=N


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Thracky on May 17, 2013, 02:32:00 AM
It's already being mined on GPU and has been likely for a while.  The OpenCL is still being optimized though.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: coke on May 17, 2013, 05:10:49 AM
Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about YAC, and I'm amazed at the work that is done here to actively support this coin.
Also I got a tiny bit of good news, the pushpoold changes I made are indeed working, my testpool just mined a block. After I cleaned up the code I will put up a repository on github.

As for the mmcfe frontend, I still have to wait for 520 confirmations to see if I didn't screw up and everything is working as it should.

Regards,
cK'


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evilscoop on May 17, 2013, 06:19:57 AM
It's already being mined on GPU and has been likely for a while.  The OpenCL is still being optimized though.



proof, link ????


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dentldir on May 17, 2013, 07:55:41 AM
Yeah.. But I'm stuck on the scrypt thingy (some other ppl to...)
Code:
{standard input}: Assembler messages:
{standard input}:23: Warning: .type pseudo-op used outside of .def/.endef ignore
d.
...

Still haven't found a fix for this..

This rabbit hole seems to go pretty deep.  (Unless there is a magic define I'm missing).

The error messages are because as 2.22 on Linux uses the ELF x86 assembly dialect and as 2.22 on mingw32 uses the PE/COFF assembly dialect.

In src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h, replace the macro definitions around line 170 for asm_naked_* through asm_gcc_end() with:

Code:
#if defined(WIN32)
        #define asm_naked_fn_proto(type, fn) extern type STDCALL fn
        #define asm_naked_fn(fn) ; __asm__ (".intel_syntax noprefix;\n.text\n.globl " #fn "\n    .def " #fn "; .scl   2; .align   32;\n.endef\n" #fn ":\n"
        #define asm_naked_fn_end(fn) );
        #define asm_gcc() __asm__ __volatile__(".intel_syntax noprefix;\n"
        #define asm_gcc_parms() ".att_syntax prefix;"
        #define asm_gcc_trashed() __asm__ __volatile__("" :::
        #define asm_gcc_end() );
#else
        #define asm_naked_fn_proto(type, fn) extern type STDCALL fn
        #define asm_naked_fn(fn) ; __asm__ (".intel_syntax noprefix;\n.text\n" asm_align16 GNU_ASL(fn)
        #define asm_naked_fn_end(fn) ".att_syntax prefix;\n.type  " #fn ",@funct
ion\n.size " #fn ",.-" #fn "\n" );
        #define asm_gcc() __asm__ __volatile__(".intel_syntax noprefix;\n"
        #define asm_gcc_parms() ".att_syntax prefix;"
        #define asm_gcc_trashed() __asm__ __volatile__("" :::
        #define asm_gcc_end() );
#endif

And that will get you further, but equally as stuck:

Code:
{standard input}: Assembler messages:
{standard input}:400: Error: no such instruction: `pushl %esi'
{standard input}:403: Error: no such instruction: `movl %eax,%esi'
{standard input}:404: Error: no such instruction: `movl %edx,%eax'
mingw32-make: *** [build/scrypt-jane.o] Error 1

Those line numbers are not very instructive on where or why these att syntax lines are not valid.

Hopefully, someone with more x86 assembly-fu can set all this straight.  I'm not particularly confident that my macro changes are 100% correct either.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 17, 2013, 09:40:41 AM
And that will get you further, but equally as stuck:

Code:
{standard input}: Assembler messages:
{standard input}:400: Error: no such instruction: `pushl %esi'
{standard input}:403: Error: no such instruction: `movl %eax,%esi'
{standard input}:404: Error: no such instruction: `movl %edx,%eax'
mingw32-make: *** [build/scrypt-jane.o] Error 1

Those line numbers are not very instructive on where or why these att syntax lines are not valid.

Hmm, those instructions look like perfectly valid AT&T x86 assembly to me.  If I have a chance tomorrow or during the weekend, my assembly-fu may need to spring into action.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: tyrion70 on May 17, 2013, 09:50:07 AM
I'm going to try to compile it with mingw on my linux machine instead.. If you can't beat them... *sigh*..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evilscoop on May 17, 2013, 01:01:10 PM
is yac client meant to be connecting to irc...
Im sat in the chatroom with a load of clients

I thought the old bootstrap stuff was stopped...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: wesleyrbk on May 17, 2013, 04:10:18 PM
When is the N increase?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 17, 2013, 05:48:06 PM
is yac client meant to be connecting to irc...
Im sat in the chatroom with a load of clients

I thought the old bootstrap stuff was stopped...

Yes, the client uses IRC to locate other peers.  There aren't any seed nodes, so this is currently the only way the client finds other peer the first time the client is started (and thus does not yet have a local database of peers).  Perhaps when we have a sufficient number of seed nodes operated in the long-term by independent parties, this can change (maybe).  Note that all the other altcoins are still using IRC to bootstrap the process of initially finding peers even if they have seed nodes hard-coded in the client.  I haven't checked the most recent 0.9.x Bitcoin clients to see if Bitcoin still uses IRC as well.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evershawn on May 17, 2013, 07:54:20 PM
YAC4EVER! It's a great coin, there are naysayers for every alt coin (a lot of times the same persons).

YAC will be at .02 soon, it's on the way.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 17, 2013, 10:22:56 PM
On question (a), I doubt 512MB needed to hash is enough to exclude GPU's, especially a decade out

512MB is overkill. A HD6970 has 1536 cores. One hash needing 512MB memory would mean a HD6970 would have to have 768 GB of memory, without a TMTO, which kills performance quite rapidly. I think the N increase should be capped way before 512MB is reached. Maybe 16MB?

Quote
The possibility also exists that other technologies other than CPU and GPU options come into existence and widespread application during that timeframe that we can't yet anticipate, or that someone could identify a TMTO shortcut in scrypt+chacha20/8, as happened with the TMTO shortcut for scrypt+salsa20/8 that made GPU's practical for calculating Litecoin hashes.

The same TMTO that works for LTC, works for YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 17, 2013, 10:28:25 PM

The possibility also exists that other technologies other than CPU and GPU options come into existence and widespread application during that timeframe that we can't yet anticipate, or that someone could identify a TMTO shortcut in scrypt+chacha20/8, as happened with the TMTO shortcut for scrypt+salsa20/8 that made GPU's practical for calculating Litecoin hashes.

That's why it is so important what WM is doing. With active development, things like this can be mitigated rather than the alternative.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 17, 2013, 11:34:48 PM
512MB is overkill. A HD6970 has 1536 cores. One hash needing 512MB memory would mean a HD6970 would have to have 768 GB of memory, without a TMTO, which kills performance quite rapidly. I think the N increase should be capped way before 512MB is reached. Maybe 16MB?

Killing hash rate performance rapidly is the goal.  Why would we want to cap the N increase before 512MB is reached?  It'll be reached in the vicinity of 10 years from now, and I suspect no one is going to be bothering with today's 6xxx series Radeon GPU's a decade from now.  In my opinion, the rate of N increasing is actually probably a bit low, and N started at too low a number, if the original developer's intent was to level the playing field between GPU's and CPU's.  Starting N at a level where 512MB is needed to calculate a hash actually would've been an interesting approach right from the start of the coin.


Quote
The same TMTO that works for LTC, works for YAC.

For clarification, are we talking about the TMTO shortcut currently used by cgminer for scrypt+salsa20/8, in which a lookup gap allows you to access external RAM half as often by adding an extra salsa round20/8 to calculate the missing value 50% of the time?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Puycheval on May 18, 2013, 12:16:42 AM
Great work going on here, long live the YAC !

I'm new to cryptocoins but I feel really interested and I'd like to help, a little.

First, I computed the N graph over time with Matlab from C code. I've found exactly the same changing days that rbdrbd found (in fact, I verified the first and the last  (13/05/2030 !) ones)
Then I tried to understand why we have that ugly curve. I made the assumption that it had to be simple. The C code is strange but it's obviously  an integer algorithm approximating a real function.
It could be the Moore's law for the first years, so let's try N=t2 with t being time in seconds since The Beginning.
As you know, N=2Nfactor+1 so we can derive Nfactor=2.log(t)/log(2)-1. I tried many tweaks and long story short, here are plots for Nfactor=f(days)  and 2.5log(days) :

http://i.imgur.com/sSSFOYY.png http://i.imgur.com/15Fp4Lr.png

EDIT : So finally it would mean that N=22.5log(days)+1 or N=2.days2.5

So, what does that mean ? I don't know and I suppose I didn't find the original equation but we get the idea.

PS1 : sorry for the english, that's not my first language
PS2 : can someone tell me where the difficulty is hidden in the source code ?



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: yantis on May 18, 2013, 12:18:08 AM
Great stuff! Keep up the good work. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: digger on May 18, 2013, 12:26:04 AM
good work.
come to mine Yacoin here http://yac.ltcoin.net

here need some hash.

How can I know when next N change?

i know N now is 6, when next?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 12:36:43 AM
How can I know when next N change?

Read back a page to find plenty of info and even some spreadsheets of N values over time prepared by rbdrbd.  Or you can look at the function that actually decides the N factor, in main.cpp, called GetNfactor().


Quote
i know N now is 6, when next?

That's the N factor, not N.  To go from N factor to the actual N, calculate it like so:
N = (1 << (Nfactor + 1));


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 18, 2013, 12:50:57 AM
WindMaster, what can be done to make bter remove that stupid warning they have on yac on their site? I'm not tech person and don't have a clue about that but why was yac the only one to get it and s there something it could be done to give them a proof so they can remove it?

I think that should be one of priorities for you guys that know a thing or two about tech stuff, it might have an effect for other exchanges to not add it too as well on people to invest more in it.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 07:23:41 AM
How can I know when next N change?

i know N now is 6, when next?

BTW - If anyone needs to find out the current value of N and the N factor, my version of the YACoin client on github (link in first post of this thread) adds that information in the data reported by the getmininginfo RPC command:

Quote
yacoin@blah:~$ ./yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 65142,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 6.74541496,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : 8,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 6,
    "N" : 128
}


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dragon2nd on May 18, 2013, 10:55:50 AM
How can I know when next N change?

i know N now is 6, when next?

BTW - If anyone needs to find out the current value of N and the N factor, my version of the YACoin client on github (link in first post of this thread) adds that information in the data reported by the getmininginfo RPC command:

Quote
yacoin@blah:~$ ./yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 65142,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 6.74541496,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : 8,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 6,
    "N" : 128
}

How about adding network hashrate?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: yantis on May 18, 2013, 11:21:34 AM
Its worth noting the official windows client says "WARNING: Checkpoint is too old. Wait for block chain to download or notify developers"


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 18, 2013, 11:26:04 AM
512MB is overkill. A HD6970 has 1536 cores. One hash needing 512MB memory would mean a HD6970 would have to have 768 GB of memory, without a TMTO, which kills performance quite rapidly. I think the N increase should be capped way before 512MB is reached. Maybe 16MB?

Killing hash rate performance rapidly is the goal.  Why would we want to cap the N increase before 512MB is reached?  It'll be reached in the vicinity of 10 years from now, and I suspect no one is going to be bothering with today's 6xxx series Radeon GPU's a decade from now.  In my opinion, the rate of N increasing is actually probably a bit low, and N started at too low a number, if the original developer's intent was to level the playing field between GPU's and CPU's.  Starting N at a level where 512MB is needed to calculate a hash actually would've been an interesting approach right from the start of the coin.

Huh, for some reason I thought N was going up far more rapidly than that. Forgive my bad memory. Anyway, starting N at 512MB memory usage would have resulted in people being able to mine at something like 20 H/s (not tested, only approximately calculated), but I guess it would have been plenty of speed. Verifying blocks would have taken quite a long time though and would have eaten some of your hashrate, but again, it'd probably have been fine.

Quote
Quote
The same TMTO that works for LTC, works for YAC.

For clarification, are we talking about the TMTO shortcut currently used by cgminer for scrypt+salsa20/8, in which a lookup gap allows you to access external RAM half as often by adding an extra salsa round20/8 to calculate the missing value 50% of the time?

Yes. It works for scrypt, is not dependent on the mixing function, and is even more general than that. You can use any integer lookup_gap, and the memory usage will be 128*N/lookup_gap bytes, and the mixing function will be called 1/2*(lookup_gap+3)*N times, per thread on average. I know this because I actually wrote the LTC kernel used by cgminer, and I also have a working YAC kernel for my own miner, Reaper.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Puycheval on May 18, 2013, 12:04:33 PM

Yes. It works for scrypt, is not dependent on the mixing function, and is even more general than that. You can use any integer lookup_gap, and the memory usage will be 128*N/lookup_gap bytes, and the mixing function will be called 1/2*(lookup_gap+3)*N times, per thread on average. I know this because I actually wrote the LTC kernel used by cgminer, and I also have a working YAC kernel for my own miner, Reaper.


Do you have numbers to share with us ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: eule on May 18, 2013, 12:35:20 PM
I also have a working YAC kernel for my own miner, Reaper.
:o

Just want to know one thing: Do GPUs throw CPUs into the water?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 18, 2013, 01:03:15 PM
WindMaster, what can be done to make bter remove that stupid warning they have on yac on their site? I'm not tech person and don't have a clue about that but why was yac the only one to get it and s there something it could be done to give them a proof so they can remove it?

I'm sure in good time they will remove it, once we've all been here for a while without losing our wallets or having our bank accounts raided  ::)

For now its probably helping suppress the price, which isn't necessarily a bad thing..

http://i.imgur.com/SJTMYHW.jpg

 ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 18, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
Yeah, it certainly stopped the rally but maybe it's not so bad thing, I bought few more  ;D and it didn't went to pump and dump stage like some other coins did what's good thing.

But it does hurt the image of the coin, I'd like to see it removed and if there's something that could be done with the code to make them do it I believe it should be one of the priorities.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Dehumanizer on May 18, 2013, 03:32:11 PM
I'm getting the "checkpoint is too old" with the WindMaster's client as well, I have tried to fix it in the checkpoints.cpp but it didn't help...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Dehumanizer on May 18, 2013, 03:45:43 PM
I'm getting the "checkpoint is too old" with the WindMaster's client as well, I have tried to fix it in the checkpoints.cpp but it didn't help...

What you mean with "tried to fix it"? Post the code.

as you suggested, I replaced the checkpoint block 15000 with 65000, i.e. this
Code:
( 15000, uint256("0x00000082cab82d04354692fac3b83d19cbe3c3ab4b73610d0e73397545eb012e"))

with this
Code:
( 65000, uint256("0x00000000105c73cd00aa0ba024c6ccd88b738f18bc598f5113470b7491b3df6e"))

then recompiled the client (also tried to make clean before compiling)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Dehumanizer on May 18, 2013, 03:47:59 PM
So the 15000 block hash stays there too? I'll try it but it should work with just 65000 as well, shouldn't it?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ongle on May 18, 2013, 03:55:06 PM
Its worth noting the official windows client says "WARNING: Checkpoint is too old. Wait for block chain to download or notify developers"

As far as I understand the issue there, it could be fixed by adding hash of some recent block to checkpoints.cpp file at github and compiling new client.

Code:
    // Is the sync-checkpoint too old?
    bool IsSyncCheckpointTooOld(unsigned int nSeconds)
    {
        LOCK(cs_hashSyncCheckpoint);
        // sync-checkpoint should always be accepted block
        assert(mapBlockIndex.count(hashSyncCheckpoint));
        const CBlockIndex* pindexSync = mapBlockIndex[hashSyncCheckpoint];
        return (pindexSync->GetBlockTime() + nSeconds < GetAdjustedTime());
    }

What's the point of that checkpoint age test? Wouldn't the blocks eventually get old requiring an update to the hard coded checkpoint list?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 04:27:29 PM
What's the point of that checkpoint age test? Wouldn't the blocks eventually get old requiring an update to the hard coded checkpoint list?

Yeah, there's probably little point to the checkpoint age test remaining, unless we really want everyone needing to download a new version of the client periodically.  I'll defeat the checkpoint age test and also add a more recent checkpoint to my version of the client today.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ongle on May 18, 2013, 04:33:08 PM
What's the point of that checkpoint age test? Wouldn't the blocks eventually get old requiring an update to the hard coded checkpoint list?

Yeah, there's probably little point to the checkpoint age test remaining, unless we really want everyone needing to download a new version of the client periodically.  I'll defeat the checkpoint age test and also add a more recent checkpoint to my version of the client today.

Cool. I could see its value in testing or experimental forks, to keep people from using it beyond its intended use, but we're taking YAC to the moon! ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 04:36:08 PM
For clarification, are we talking about the TMTO shortcut currently used by cgminer for scrypt+salsa20/8, in which a lookup gap allows you to access external RAM half as often by adding an extra salsa round20/8 to calculate the missing value 50% of the time?

Yes. It works for scrypt, is not dependent on the mixing function, and is even more general than that. You can use any integer lookup_gap, and the memory usage will be 128*N/lookup_gap bytes, and the mixing function will be called 1/2*(lookup_gap+3)*N times, per thread on average.

Indeed.  You passed the test to check if you know what you're talking about.  :)


I know this because I actually wrote the LTC kernel used by cgminer, and I also have a working YAC kernel for my own miner, Reaper.

Oh yeah, I thought I recognized the name mtrlt somewhere.  For anyone in the thread not familiar with scrypt GPU mining history, mtrlt's Reaper was the first (released) OpenCL implementation of scrypt back when everyone claimed scrypt was GPU-resistant.  The kernel in cgminer is just a rip-off of the one in Reaper.

You would indeed be one of the people I'd expect to have modified your own OpenCL code for scrypt+chacha fairly early on.  Anyway, willing to post some hash rate info for your kernel at the current N=128 for a given GPU type and lookup gap (if any)?  You can probably post that info safely without giving anyone a head-start on making the modifications themselves.

Out of curiosity, how many hours after launch or after you started modifying your OpenCL kernel did it take you to make the changes?  Mainly a point of curiosity, for comparison with how many hours it took me.  I went from scratch rather than modifying the Reaper/cgminer kernel though, so my hour comparison will differ a bit because of that.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: efx on May 18, 2013, 04:44:14 PM
512MB is overkill. A HD6970 has 1536 cores. One hash needing 512MB memory would mean a HD6970 would have to have 768 GB of memory, without a TMTO, which kills performance quite rapidly. I think the N increase should be capped way before 512MB is reached. Maybe 16MB?

Killing hash rate performance rapidly is the goal.  Why would we want to cap the N increase before 512MB is reached?  It'll be reached in the vicinity of 10 years from now, and I suspect no one is going to be bothering with today's 6xxx series Radeon GPU's a decade from now.  In my opinion, the rate of N increasing is actually probably a bit low, and N started at too low a number, if the original developer's intent was to level the playing field between GPU's and CPU's.  Starting N at a level where 512MB is needed to calculate a hash actually would've been an interesting approach right from the start of the coin.

Huh, for some reason I thought N was going up far more rapidly than that. Forgive my bad memory. Anyway, starting N at 512MB memory usage would have resulted in people being able to mine at something like 20 H/s (not tested, only approximately calculated), but I guess it would have been plenty of speed. Verifying blocks would have taken quite a long time though and would have eaten some of your hashrate, but again, it'd probably have been fine.

Quote
Quote
The same TMTO that works for LTC, works for YAC.

For clarification, are we talking about the TMTO shortcut currently used by cgminer for scrypt+salsa20/8, in which a lookup gap allows you to access external RAM half as often by adding an extra salsa round20/8 to calculate the missing value 50% of the time?

Yes. It works for scrypt, is not dependent on the mixing function, and is even more general than that. You can use any integer lookup_gap, and the memory usage will be 128*N/lookup_gap bytes, and the mixing function will be called 1/2*(lookup_gap+3)*N times, per thread on average. I know this because I actually wrote the LTC kernel used by cgminer, and I also have a working YAC kernel for my own miner, Reaper.


I recognized your name, lol.

I actually still use reaper and assumed it would be first to the gate with acceptable yak hashes.

Are you still involved with RS and SC/ 'microcash' or have you moved on? For hire?


Windmaster, you are tilting at a windmill here imo. Do you honestly want a network based on relatively simple core density and cheap memory? Even IF you could keep it to CPU only (of course, you can't) you are opening yourself up to some ...unfortunate long-term propositions.

Anyways, I'm just watching from the sidelines, I'm not really interested in hashing anything except (1024,1,1) right now  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: 8kmode on May 18, 2013, 04:53:27 PM
for comparison with how many hours it took me.

So, correct me if I am wrong.
It appears that you are taking over development of YAC, and have modified a miner to be able to GPU mine YACoins  while the vast majority of users are only able to CPU mine.

You can probably post that info safely without giving anyone a head-start on making the modifications themselves.


Also appears you don't wish to share that knowledge..?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 04:55:32 PM
How about adding network hashrate?

Good thought, added to my TODO list.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 05:12:11 PM
for comparison with how many hours it took me.

So, correct me if I am wrong.
It appears that you are taking over development of YAC, and have modified a miner to be able to GPU mine YACoins  while the vast majority of users are only able to CPU mine.

Read earlier in the thread, I just wrote a non-Reaper/cgminer OpenCL kernel for this hashing algorithm at N=32 and benchmarked it.  I didn't integrate it into a miner.  I instead moved straight to an FPGA implementation instead since N=32 allowed a special opportunity for it to run very quickly on an FPGA implementation.  My GPU's are happily mining Litecoin.  My OpenCL kernel isn't at a stage that would be useful for mining.

To be clear, anyone that wants to screw with modifying Reaper or cgminer's OpenCL kernel is free to do so.  They're open source.  Download it and start hacking away.  I would imagine several people already have and succeeded, but we won't know for sure until everyone starts actually posting code.  Or who knows, maybe mtrlt is the only one who bothered?  We don't know at this point.

Anyway, it's not like I have insider knowledge or some unfair advantage here.  The source code for the scrypt-jane library used by the YAC client is open-source, and the source code for Reaper and cgminer are also open source, and there's even Wikipedia articles that spell out how scrypt and the salsa and chacha mixing functions work in a way that's easy to understand.  If technical skill at writing code is an unfair advantage, mtrlt has most of us beat there (me included) and has made a pretty plausible claim to have a working implementation (if anyone would've done it, mtrlt would have).  Of course, I'm not the original developer of YAC, I'm just the one stepping up to keep things rolling after the original developer went AWOL.  I didn't have any advance knowledge of what hashing algorithm would be used for YAC.  In fact, I slept through the coin launch and didn't become aware of it until 8 hours later, and didn't start mining until another 30 minutes after that after finishing waking up and getting sufficiently caffeinated.  Time will tell if stepping up and continuing to improve YAC just turns me into the YAC lightning rod though.

I suspect people think I have far more YAC than I actually do though.  I've bought more YAC on bter than I've mined, by no small margin.  If everyone is upset they didn't mine a lot of YAC, it doesn't matter because YAC is very inexpensive to buy on bter right now.


You can probably post that info safely without giving anyone a head-start on making the modifications themselves.

Also appears you don't wish to share that knowledge..?

I didn't optimize it, so my hash rates are pretty low.  So here's the dilemma.  Let's say I post a number for my unoptimized implementation, and later the YAC-enabled Reaper is released and it turns out it runs 10x faster.  Plenty of finger-pointing will occur just as happened with ArtForz when mtrlt released the version of Reaper that mined scrypt in Litecoin and the numbers blew ArtForz's (reported) Nvidia-based hash rate numbers out of the water.  We still see controversy over that to this day.

Anyway, at N=32, I benchmarked at ~360kH/sec on a 6950 (not overclocked) without any lookup gap, while my 4-year old IBM HS21 blade servers with 2x Xeon E5450's were cranking about 320kH/sec.  Not real far off of what mtrlt's kernel was doing on the same GPU for scrypt(1024,1,1) for Litecoin with a lookup gap of 2.  I didn't implement any other lookup gap so I have no idea what the % speed advantage is on GPU's for taking advantage of that TMTO shortcut.  And I imagine my hash rate was poor.  As I've said, I made no effort to optimize it beyond get something that would produce valid hashes.  Just wait for mtrlt to release actual real numbers.  If anyone optimized it well, he would've.  So, no finger-pointing if mtrlt achieved some totally ridiculously hash rate completely out of the ballpark of what I did.

That's why my GPU's are mining Litecoin, and a handful of my spare Xeon servers are mining YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: tacotime on May 18, 2013, 05:32:33 PM
I also have a working YAC kernel for my own miner, Reaper.
:o

Just want to know one thing: Do GPUs throw CPUs into the water?

I told everyone...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 05:54:46 PM
I'm getting the "checkpoint is too old" with the WindMaster's client as well, I have tried to fix it in the checkpoints.cpp but it didn't help...

I just pushed updates to my git repository to remove the "checkpoint too old" warning (no longer needed, coin is launched and stable), and added checkpoints at 30000, 45000 and 60000.  I'm showing the same block hash at 65000 that other people posted earlier today so we're all on the same blockchain.  For the person that asked why there should be more than one checkpoint rather than just the most recent checkpoint, it speeds up checking of the blockchain in the client.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 18, 2013, 06:18:31 PM
Indeed.  You passed the test to check if you know what you're talking about.  :)

Crafty. I like your style.

Quote from: WindMaster
You would indeed be one of the people I'd expect to have modified your own OpenCL code for scrypt+chacha fairly early on.  Anyway, willing to post some hash rate info for your kernel at the current N=128 for a given GPU type and lookup gap (if any)?  You can probably post that info safely without giving anyone a head-start on making the modifications themselves.

The knowledge might give others incentive to do it, but oh well. Currently (N=128) it does 3.4MH/s on a core-underclocked (830->738) HD6990, with lookup_gap at 1, thus no gap. As a curiosity, at N=32, it does 7.3MH/s under the same setup.

Quote from: WindMaster
Out of curiosity, how many hours after launch or after you started modifying your OpenCL kernel did it take you to make the changes?  Mainly a point of curiosity, for comparison with how many hours it took me.  I went from scratch rather than modifying the Reaper/cgminer kernel though, so my hour comparison will differ a bit because of that.

I was a bit late, I started coding the miner about 16h after the launch. It took me 13.5h from start, to a working implementation. It was very intensive, as you might imagine. Difficulty rising like no tomorrow, and my code only gave errors, until it finally worked. Debugging OpenCL code is horrible. :-)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 06:20:39 PM
What happens if you leave the code checking if checkpoint is too old? Does "checkpoint too old" warning remains? In other words, is it enough to just add newer checkpoint to list?

Yeah, but only for a while and then the warning will pop up again until more recent checkpoints have been added.  That would require everyone to update and rebuild the client again periodically (at least every 10 days with the way the check is written), which is probably something we'll want to get away from for long-term YAC adoption.  In fact, all the people running the official YAC client are seeing that warning right now, which probably won't be helping the public appearance of YAC (perhaps similar effect to the poorly worded warning on bter?).

My opinion is the check was only necessary during the early stage of the coin launch when the probability was high that someone could 51% it by mining off-network and reintroducing their chain later on, before the network hash rate increased enough to make it expensive to do so.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 06:27:03 PM
Quote from: WindMaster
You would indeed be one of the people I'd expect to have modified your own OpenCL code for scrypt+chacha fairly early on.  Anyway, willing to post some hash rate info for your kernel at the current N=128 for a given GPU type and lookup gap (if any)?  You can probably post that info safely without giving anyone a head-start on making the modifications themselves.

The knowledge might give others incentive to do it, but oh well. Currently it does 3.4MH/s on a core-underclocked (830->738) HD6990, with lookup_gap at 1, thus no gap. As a curiosity, at N=32, it does 7.3MH/s under the same setup.

Oyy, my implementation was pretty shitty then.  You went 20x faster than I did at N=32, though I was on a 6950.


Quote from: WindMaster
Out of curiosity, how many hours after launch or after you started modifying your OpenCL kernel did it take you to make the changes?  Mainly a point of curiosity, for comparison with how many hours it took me.  I went from scratch rather than modifying the Reaper/cgminer kernel though, so my hour comparison will differ a bit because of that.

I was a bit late, I started coding the miner about 16h after the launch. It took me 13.5h from start, to a working implementation. It was very intensive, as you might imagine. Difficulty rising like no tomorrow, and my code only gave errors, until it finally worked.

About 8 hours here, but as you can see, my benchmark test was almost catastrophically slower than yours.  And that was just to the point of being able to get valid hashes for benchmark purposes, not to finish out an all-up miner.  Now I'd be inclined to say my implementation is flawed.


Debugging OpenCL code is horrible. :-)

+1


The knowledge might give others incentive to do it

There's still a pretty large technical knowledge barrier to entry though.  I suspect everyone with the correct skillset and OpenCL experience already went for it.  Though this may give incentive for everyone to start figuring out how best to optimize it..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: rbdrbd on May 18, 2013, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: WindMaster
You would indeed be one of the people I'd expect to have modified your own OpenCL code for scrypt+chacha fairly early on.  Anyway, willing to post some hash rate info for your kernel at the current N=128 for a given GPU type and lookup gap (if any)?  You can probably post that info safely without giving anyone a head-start on making the modifications themselves.

The knowledge might give others incentive to do it, but oh well. Currently (N=128) it does 3.4MH/s on a core-underclocked (830->738) HD6990, with lookup_gap at 1, thus no gap. As a curiosity, at N=32, it does 7.3MH/s under the same setup.

This confirms the criticism that N started out too low. My calculations show N/KB increases at/around the following dates:
5/21: 256, 32KB
5/30: 512, 64KB
6/2: 1024, 128KB
6/26: 2048, 256KB
7/8: 4096, 512KB
8/14: 8192, 1024KB

How do you feel your YAC GPU kernel performance will hold up off of those adjustments (in absolute terms and in relative terms to a high end CPU)?

I did check out Tacotime's MC2 paper, I like the approach he takes with varying the hash algorithm to achieve maximum ASIC/FPGA resistance. Unfortunately, building GPU resistance for any good length of time looks like a much harder (impossible?) task.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: snaidervp on May 18, 2013, 06:54:27 PM
does anyone kind nice guy here could tell me with simple instructions how to remove that warning from the Yac client, or maybe tell if not doing it what worse can happen?

ty :-*


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: FlyLord on May 18, 2013, 06:56:38 PM
So, I'll chime in, I wrote one too and get pretty abysmal rates (just got around to testing it -- 150 kH/s or so, under N=6) using a 7950. I know my implementation can be cleaned up but it would require understanding keccak better and since I'm new to OpenCl and basic optimization information is pretty hard to find, I'm not sure I want to put in the effort. I put in a lookup gap capability but don't need to use it.

Btw, does anyone know if using the vector types in OpenCL on AMD is faster than using the scalar types? I haven't been able to find any definite statements leaning one way or the other ...

I wonder if mtrlt wrote is own keccak implementation or went around porting the optimized version they released. I went about it by copying over the code from scrypt-jane and direct porting it to OpenCL.

Oh and as an fyi, I didn't do it to actually make a miner, I just wanted to see how much effort it would take and how fast it would be.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 07:03:47 PM
I did check out Tacotime's MC2 paper, I like the approach he takes with varying the hash algorithm to achieve maximum ASIC/FPGA resistance. Unfortunately, building GPU resistance for any good length of time looks like a much harder (impossible?) task.

This is likely true.  I think the best one can hope for is to narrow the performance gap between CPU's and GPU's by making the memory usage large enough that it gets pushed out to significant amounts of external RAM.  At that point, external RAM bandwidth is the deciding factor.  We're already seeing GPU's with wider external memory busses than many CPU's however.

At best it's an arms race.  It appears that with YAC, the lag time for people to implement it on OpenCL still gave early CPU miners a significant head-start (I just wish I was one of those that actually got the head-start).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 18, 2013, 07:04:17 PM
I tried last weekend to port the scryp jane code to open cl, but I only achieved at 60kH with 7950, besides the hash is not valid. So I give up because at that point I don't think it's worthwhile to keep on.

I think the main problem is that Radeon GPU uses big-endian, I might not treat it correctly at some point.

I used the cgminer, but I have very little knowledge about its implementation and I also new to these open cl and its system calls (too much functions ... that's why I don't like to use them).

The way I debug it is that I compiled the cl kernel source (modified slightly) with gcc directly. It actually produce the same hash in comparison with the original one. But the endian problem still exists ...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: FlyLord on May 18, 2013, 07:06:45 PM
? The Radeon HD's are Little Endian, easiest way to check is to query the props via OpenCL

Also you can make a coin GPU resistant by requiring a lot of memory to get good speed. The thing about gpus is that they're highly paralellization but slow in serial processes. So if you can modify scrypt to remove the tmto and force all N precalculated spaces to be required it would reduce the effectiveness. Go even further and make N *and* r increase over time


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 18, 2013, 07:11:05 PM

This confirms the criticism that N started out too low. My calculations show N/KB increases at/around the following dates:
5/21: 256, 32KB
5/30: 512, 64KB
6/2: 1024, 128KB
6/26: 2048, 256KB
7/8: 4096, 512KB
8/14: 8192, 1024KB

How do you feel your YAC GPU kernel performance will hold up off of those adjustments (in absolute terms and in relative terms to a high end CPU)?

I did check out Tacotime's MC2 paper, I like the approach he takes with varying the hash algorithm to achieve maximum ASIC/FPGA resistance. Unfortunately, building GPU resistance for any good length of time looks like a much harder (impossible?) task.


I don't think resistance to any technology in mind is a good way. The key point is the strength of the network, the security of the network and the fair reward for maintaining the network efficiency.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 07:11:41 PM
So, I'll chime in, I wrote one too and get pretty abysmal rates (just got around to testing it -- 150 kH/s or so, under N=6) using a 7950. I know my implementation can be cleaned up but it would require understanding keccak better and since I'm new to OpenCl and basic optimization information is pretty hard to find, I'm not sure I want to put in the effort. I put in a lookup gap capability but don't need to use it.

Interestingly, your hash rate is right in the same ballpark as mine for N=6 on a 6950.  Guess that makes 2 of us in the catastrophically unoptimized OpenCL implementation club..  Probably won't surprise anyone that I'm staring at my OpenCL code right now trying to figure out what I did wrong, as I'd consider mtrlt to be a reliable source (as the first person to publicly write an OpenCL scrypt implementation, and just about everyone mining Litecoin on GPU's is using his OpenCL code).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 18, 2013, 07:16:32 PM
? The Radeon HD's are Little Endian, easiest way to check is to query the props via OpenCL

Also you can make a coin GPU resistant by requiring a lot of memory to get good speed. The thing about gpus is that they're highly paralellization but slow in serial processes. So if you can modify scrypt to remove the tmto and force all N precalculated spaces to be required it would reduce the effectiveness. Go even further and make N *and* r increase over time

I searched on google, there're some page saying "Radeon GPUs are big-endian" ...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: FlyLord on May 18, 2013, 07:20:53 PM
If I had to guess he read the keccak whitepaper which talks about optimizing the code, there's apparently some instructions that are not necessary or something. I'm also not taking advantage of the vector types. The core ChaCha code as an example, takes 16 uint's and could be done using either a uint4 [4] or uint8 [2] or uint16 -- but, as I mentioned, I've got no clue if that would actually make it faster.

After reading the PBKDF2 specs and pseudocode, I also think there are too many steps in the scrypt-jane code -- maybe I'm just reading it wrong -- that are not necessary for what we're doing.

Also, to figure out endianess query the "CL_DEVICE_ENDIAN_LITTLE" property through OpenCL, that way you'll know for sure.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 07:22:00 PM
Are you aware Terracoin network is forked into like 4 chains right now?

Yeah.  Their hard forks came about through incompatible changes to the client though, if I understand correctly.  I kinda hold hard forks of the blockchain to be generally bad policy unless absolutely necessary, because it enforces changes upon the whole of a coin's population to change the parameters of the coin to something different than they understood the coin to be when they adopted the coin.  For example, the Elacoin miners trying to hard fork their blockchain and change their client so their mining reward is even higher for late adopter miners than what everyone understood it to be when they adopted Elacoin and started mining it (effectively, jacking up their rate of inflation).  And some mention of trying to get all the Elacoin mining pools onboard with the change to gain majority hashpower and try to force the change on everyone using Elacoin.  That really rubbed me the wrong way how they were going about that.


I suggest leaving checkpoint age code but increasing check period from 10 to 60+ days. Given how many things can be added and improved, there could be even more than 1 upgrade
per 2 months, mandatory or not.

Perhaps.  Here's what's in there now:

Quote
   if (Checkpoints::IsSyncCheckpointTooOld(60 * 60 * 24 * 10) && !fTestNet && !IsInitialBlockDownload())
    {
        nPriority = 100;
        strStatusBar = "WARNING: Checkpoint is too old. Wait for block chain to download, or notify developers.";
    }

So, after 10 days it throws that particular warning.  Changing it to 60 days could be workable but we definitely need to rewrite the warning, I'd think.  As it is, it already leaves someone with no clue whether their client is even working anymore.

Anyone have any thoughts on what it should actually say?  Perhaps something like "WARNING: Your YACoin client is more than 60 days old and may not contain the most recent checkpoints.  You may want to check if a more recent version of the YACoin client is available."


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 18, 2013, 07:23:57 PM
So, I'll chime in, I wrote one too and get pretty abysmal rates (just got around to testing it -- 150 kH/s or so, under N=6) using a 7950. I know my implementation can be cleaned up but it would require understanding keccak better and since I'm new to OpenCl and basic optimization information is pretty hard to find, I'm not sure I want to put in the effort. I put in a lookup gap capability but don't need to use it.

Btw, does anyone know if using the vector types in OpenCL on AMD is faster than using the scalar types? I haven't been able to find any definite statements leaning one way or the other ...

I wonder if mtrlt wrote is own keccak implementation or went around porting the optimized version they released. I went about it by copying over the code from scrypt-jane and direct porting it to OpenCL.

Oh and as an fyi, I didn't do it to actually make a miner, I just wanted to see how much effort it would take and how fast it would be.

I also port directly from scrypt-jane source code. For ROTL64 & ROTL32, I use rotate(x,y) function of CL. I also use some vector types. That's why I need to care much more about the endian problems ... Maybe I should start with little change.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 18, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
If I had to guess he read the keccak whitepaper which talks about optimizing the code, there's apparently some instructions that are not necessary or something. I'm also not taking advantage of the vector types. The core ChaCha code as an example, takes 16 uint's and could be done using either a uint4 [4] or uint8 [2] or uint16 -- but, as I mentioned, I've got no clue if that would actually make it faster.

After reading the PBKDF2 specs and pseudocode, I also think there are too many steps in the scrypt-jane code -- maybe I'm just reading it wrong -- that are not necessary for what we're doing.

Also, to figure out endianess query the "CL_DEVICE_ENDIAN_LITTLE" property through OpenCL, that way you'll know for sure.

;-) for chacha I ported to this:
Quote
uint16
chacha_core(uint16 state) {
   uint rounds;
   uint16 x;
        uint t;

   x = state;

   for (rounds = 8; rounds > 0; rounds -= 2) {
      quarter( x.s0, x.s4, x.s8, x.sC);
      quarter( x.s1, x.s5, x.s9, x.sD);
      quarter( x.s2, x.s6, x.sA, x.sE);
      quarter( x.s3, x.s7, x.sB, x.sF);
      quarter( x.s0, x.s5, x.sA, x.sF);
      quarter( x.s1, x.s6, x.sB, x.sC);
      quarter( x.s2, x.s7, x.s8, x.sD);
      quarter( x.s3, x.s4, x.s9, x.sE);
   }

   state += x;
       
        return state;
}


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 18, 2013, 07:47:41 PM

How do you feel your YAC GPU kernel performance will hold up off of those adjustments (in absolute terms and in relative terms to a high end CPU)?


I've not yet tested high N values extensively, however I know that N=512 is the first N where lookup_gap=2 is faster than lookup_gap=1.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: FlyLord on May 18, 2013, 07:50:15 PM
mtrlt, want to give us a hint as to what you optimized?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 18, 2013, 07:59:10 PM
Right now, I'm hesitant to reveal details. I'd absolutely love it you (FlyLord, WindMaster, hanzac, others?) could PM me your OpenCL code, but I don't know what I could give in return.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 08:02:26 PM
Right now, I'm hesitant to reveal details. I'd absolutely love it you (FlyLord, WindMaster, hanzac, others?) could PM me your OpenCL code, but I don't know what I could give in return.

But for what purpose, if we all achieved way shittier hash rates than you did?


but I don't know what I could give in return.

Oh, I think I have a good idea what everyone will probably ask for in return, and it's not something you're likely to give.  :)  It's sorta like everyone that keeps PM'ing me asking for my Verilog implementation for FPGA's, thinking they're going to run it on off-the-shelf BTC mining FPGA boards, or not reading close enough that it was an implementation for N=32 specifically.  I'm saving that especially for the next altcoin that gets the bright idea to fork YACoin into yet another useless copy-pasta altcoin launch with difficulty set to 0.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 18, 2013, 08:10:02 PM
I can post my code but it's still buggy (the hash not accepted):
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/scrypt130302.cl

The bug might involved in mem copy from registers to memory or from memory to registers (the endian problem).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 18, 2013, 08:12:18 PM
Right now, I'm hesitant to reveal details. I'd absolutely love it you (FlyLord, WindMaster, hanzac, others?) could PM me your OpenCL code, but I don't know what I could give in return.

But for what purpose, if we all achieved way shittier hash rates than you did?


I just want to see how others think. So far, except for BTC, I've always been the first to make an open source GPU miner for a currency that has had a new hash function. (My list only contains Solidcoin 2.0 and Litecoin, though. Maybe I've missed some altcoins?) I've not seen the OpenCL development practices of anyone else. I'm just curious, that's all. You don't have to send me code if you don't want to. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Dehumanizer on May 18, 2013, 08:25:22 PM
does anyone kind nice guy here could tell me with simple instructions how to remove that warning from the Yac client, or maybe tell if not doing it what worse can happen?

ty :-*

Just download the latest WindMaster's client and compile it and you won't get any warnings. Running the old client won't do any harm though.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: e521 on May 18, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
Just my 2 cents here:

Congratulation to mtrlt, you deserve all your litecoins :)

For the rest:

I understood that you wanted to continue to develop yacoin for it's "uniqueness" being cpu-only (AFAIK FPGA from the start)
What I see here it's quite different, maybe you should change thread title as it's not about the client, it's about the miner.
If you are up to multiply your daily crypto income there are easier available-to-eveybody way to do this.
Don't take this as an attack  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 18, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
What I see here it's quite different, maybe you should change thread title as it's not about the client, it's about the miner.
If you are up to multiply your daily crypto income there are easier available-to-eveybody way to do this.
Don't take this as an attack  ;D

Only the last page or two, and there's a bunch of client-related stuff dealing with checkpoints and the warning the original client is showing mixed in.  Certainly a discussion about GPU mining and the first people to post hash rates and implementation details is of interest to ongoing YACoin development.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 18, 2013, 10:30:39 PM
I'm saving that especially for the next altcoin that gets the bright idea to fork YACoin into yet another useless copy-pasta altcoin launch with difficulty set to 0.

I can't believe that hasn't already happened.

Also - is the mtrit in this thread famous mtrit or famous original mtrit?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: rbdrbd on May 18, 2013, 10:47:55 PM
Just my 2 cents here:

Congratulation to mtrlt, you deserve all your litecoins :)

For the rest:

I understood that you wanted to continue to develop yacoin for it's "uniqueness" being cpu-only (AFAIK FPGA from the start)
What I see here it's quite different, maybe you should change thread title as it's not about the client, it's about the miner.
If you are up to multiply your daily crypto income there are easier available-to-eveybody way to do this.
Don't take this as an attack  ;D

My main interest here is determining the feasibility of yacoin moving forward, as I have a decent amount of them. It's great that a development community is forming around it, as that's a huge plus, and IMO required for any "lasting" altcoin. However, I believe that this coin still needs something to set it apart from the rest if it is to be substantially successful. It currently has that. But how much of that is due to the intrinsic technical properties of the coin, and how much of that is due to the fact that no GPU miner is publicly available yet? THAT is the key question for me.

Therefore, I'm very interested in the effectiveness of GPU mining in the months and years moving forward, especially as it relates to CPU.  If we can at least keep the performance advantage between CPUs and GPUs < 5x or so once N >= 2048 (in a few months) then that may prove to be good enough. This is why any technical data on hash rates with various N sizes would be very interesting to me, especially as it compares to a CPU.

Right now, GPUs are clearly more effective than CPUs, but the # of users mining with GPUs appears to be very low (1 or 2? :)). If a reaper/cgminer YAC kernel is made available though, that will change very quickly.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: mtrlt on May 18, 2013, 11:03:55 PM
I'm saving that especially for the next altcoin that gets the bright idea to fork YACoin into yet another useless copy-pasta altcoin launch with difficulty set to 0.

I can't believe that hasn't already happened.


There was OneCoin, but the developer couldn't figure out how to compile for Windows, and gave up.

Quote
Also - is the mtrit in this thread famous mtrit or famous original mtrit?

I have trouble parsing this sentence.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 18, 2013, 11:27:28 PM
I'm not even sure that people mining it with gpu is a bad thing in long run or even now. Price needs to go up for cpu mining to be decently profitable and gpu mining might be the one that will keep things moving until then.

And it was always expected that gpus are going to jump in at some moment. Despite some problems it was still a coin where people without lot of gpu power could take the bigger piece of pie in early days than it's case with other coins.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: yantis on May 19, 2013, 02:00:51 AM
Windmaster - Thanks for the the checkpoint fix.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: zero3112 on May 19, 2013, 02:32:46 AM
How do I fix the old checkpoint message?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dragon2nd on May 19, 2013, 11:16:31 AM
My main interest here is determining the feasibility of yacoin moving forward, as I have a decent amount of them.

One of the problems I see with YACoin is that many people who mined shitload of coins early ^ are not interested in actively working on YAC mass adoption or development. YACoin is still
lacking blockchain explorer and many other features but I don't see anyone owning huge pile of YAC giving a damn about it. It seems even posting on this forum and not letting YACoin
threads end spammed out to 5th+ page is hard task for most of you out there. You are giving nothing but expect much, well, that simply won't work. If Satoshi and early Bitcoin adopters
went the same way we would probably not have any cryptocoins today.

I, the guy who mined under 1 YAC total but bought close to 40k coins very early and in the effect added initial value to them, will abstain from participation in any sort of YACoin debate
until I see things moving in the right direction.
I own 10K of them, not much. And I'm eager to promote it, too.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 19, 2013, 11:24:57 AM
My main interest here is determining the feasibility of yacoin moving forward, as I have a decent amount of them.

One of the problems I see with YACoin is that many people who mined shitload of coins early ^ are not interested in actively working on YAC mass adoption or development. YACoin is still
lacking blockchain explorer and many other features but I don't see anyone owning huge pile of YAC giving a damn about it. It seems even posting on this forum and not letting YACoin
threads end spammed out to 5th+ page is hard task for most of you out there. You are giving nothing but expect much, well, that simply won't work. If Satoshi and early Bitcoin adopters
went the same way we would probably not have any cryptocoins today.

I, the guy who mined under 1 YAC total but bought close to 40k coins very early and in the effect added initial value to them, will abstain from participation in any sort of YACoin debate
until I see things moving in the right direction.

Actually, don't expect too much because we know things are changing, no one knows which is the end. But we can see the direction ahead that is innovative things not copycats. That's why we need to pay more attention on the development of the infrastructure.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 19, 2013, 12:34:47 PM
We need some news, good ones  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 19, 2013, 01:44:03 PM
Presume everyone has noticed that difficulty is falling, and block reward rising..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: R_Lem on May 19, 2013, 02:29:51 PM
Procrypto is there any word on the blockchain explorer? Did Evilscoop take it over? The guy running the bounty page for YAC hasn't updated the page but I have 250 YACs (not a lot I know :)  ) for you when it's done.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 19, 2013, 02:57:58 PM
Not the proper thread for Bter talk. Let's keep this one for YAC development.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 19, 2013, 03:00:14 PM
I just managed to get Abe (a block explorer) to work with Yacoin. Dunno if everything works as it should, but so far it looks good. I'll try to polish it and then set it up on amazon cloud or something and publish the source.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 19, 2013, 03:04:19 PM
Not the proper thread for Bter talk. Let's keep this one for YAC development.

Yeah, i guess you're right


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: leadnor on May 19, 2013, 03:26:24 PM
Hey guys. I have the old official wallet and am getting the warning checkpoint too old error. I see lots of people talking about it. But how do we get this fixed?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 19, 2013, 03:35:47 PM
download the client from the op in this thread.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 19, 2013, 05:34:08 PM
some statistics from Abe:

full text dump: http://pastebin.com/mEMdue3d (http://pastebin.com/mEMdue3d)

EDIT: it's now online at http://yacexplorer.tk/ (http://yacexplorer.tk/)

difficulty graph:
http://i.imgur.com/Pxt5lGM.png (http://imgur.com/Pxt5lGM)

hashrate graph:
http://i.imgur.com/Vt9778P.png (http://imgur.com/Vt9778P)

block interval graph:
http://i.imgur.com/fLyiHxf.png (http://imgur.com/fLyiHxf)

guess it's dying already


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 19, 2013, 05:52:58 PM
some statistics from Abe:


EDIT: it's now online at http://yacexplorer.tk/ (http://yacexplorer.tk/)


Nice work. I did try last week but hit a few stumbling blocks, intended to come back to it, so would really appreciate seeing your code to find out what I hadn't managed to figure out.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: eule on May 19, 2013, 05:55:21 PM
guess it's dying already
Huh? I think the hashrate got so low due to the n factor rising.
Finally a blockexplorer, neat!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 19, 2013, 06:04:51 PM
http://yacexplorer.tk/address/YBJeQQFCipbC4LrZTnTu6j5rSAMsqRkGJb has a pretty healthy balance.  :o

Quote
Balance: 441131 YAC
Transactions in: 13
Received: 441151 YAC
Transactions out: 1
Sent: 20 YAC


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 19, 2013, 06:17:16 PM
Mmh, could that be the YACs deposited on Bter?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: GSnak on May 19, 2013, 06:26:50 PM
They might have more than 13.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 19, 2013, 06:35:53 PM
It could be the cold wallet, not the one they use for occasional withdrawals.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 19, 2013, 06:46:32 PM
Huh? I think the hashrate got so low due to the n factor rising.

Well, the network hashrate fell from 1.2x10^9 to 3x10^8 (to 25%).
My miner is now at 57% of the hashrate I had at diff <1.
So I think that the rest was just pump&dump mining.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: wetroof on May 19, 2013, 06:59:56 PM
we already created 3 million coins? And the limit set is 2 billion. how does the block reward work for yacoin. I assume its the same as novacoin which I don't anything about.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 19, 2013, 07:21:35 PM
Mmh, could that be the YACs deposited on Bter?

Well, I'd like to believe it, however, it looks like it's some miner. If you trace the coins to their generation transactions, you'll see it's very unlikely that this address belongs to an exchange (could be a distributed solo-mining gpu/cpu farm or something IMHO).

EDIT: I might try to modify blockparser and build a closure of this address from the blockchain.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 19, 2013, 07:31:46 PM
I just managed to get Abe (a block explorer) to work with Yacoin. Dunno if everything works as it should, but so far it looks good. I'll try to polish it and then set it up on amazon cloud or something and publish the source.

Excellent work, this was badly needed.  Well done!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: procrypto on May 19, 2013, 07:37:51 PM
Mmh, could that be the YACs deposited on Bter?
Well, I'd like to believe it, however, it looks like it's some miner. If you trace the coins to their generation transactions, you'll see it's very unlikely that this address belongs to an exchange (could be a distributed solo-mining gpu/cpu farm or something IMHO).

Exactly.. this was how I found the address, but in reverse - seeing where the first handful of generated coins ended up.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cycloid on May 19, 2013, 10:02:34 PM
Very happy to see this work on YAC .

Silly question:
 If I switch to unofficial client does this mean new fork and my coins on it will eventually not be "legit" on original fork?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 19, 2013, 10:12:11 PM
Very happy to see this work on YAC .

Silly question:
 If I switch to unofficial client does this mean new fork and my coins on it will eventually not be "legit" on original fork?

They'll be good  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 19, 2013, 10:14:44 PM
Very happy to see this work on YAC .

Silly question:
 If I switch to unofficial client does this mean new fork and my coins on it will eventually not be "legit" on original fork?

no forking. the client is unoffical because it isn't the original, but it still works the same way, on the same chain.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 19, 2013, 10:29:21 PM
Very happy to see this work on YAC .

Silly question:
 If I switch to unofficial client does this mean new fork and my coins on it will eventually not be "legit" on original fork?

Looks like a couple other people already answered the general question.  I think the term fork confuses people, and a lot of people immediately think hard fork of the blockchain.  Nope, in this case, fork is just GitHub's term for taking a copy of someone else's project (in this case, pocopoco's original YACoin client) and continuing to work on and develop it independently of the original author.  We're not changing anything with the blockchain.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: SpaceJunk on May 19, 2013, 10:31:05 PM
Oi, one quick question. To translate the client is it enough to create i.e. bitcoin_es.ts with the language attribute set to "es" and then the contents of the translation tags translated? I've done gettext translations before, but not this system. Recompiling my fork with a half translated locale in src/qt/locale didn't make the language option to appear in the client Settings.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cycloid on May 20, 2013, 01:19:50 AM
Awesome thanks .

 Now how do I go about compiling it in win?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: yantis on May 20, 2013, 01:45:41 AM
I just unloaded my last approximately 80k on BTER at around .00050 which are the two big volume spikes you see http://bter.com/trade/yac_btc to explain my reasoning for this:

- The original developer no longer supports it.
- Even though Windmaster is maintaining it. Its really not in his best interest. He would most likely do far better of with his FPGA code on a YAC clone or releasing his own coin.
- There are no Windows binaries out there of the current fork.
- The original version has the checkpoint message which scares a lot of people away.
- If the coin wasn't on BTER I don't think there would be any real trades for it. I don't see a way to spend it otherwise.
- The general trend these last couple weeks are people are just cloning coins and releasing them with minimal changes. The odds are high that a YAC clone will be released with more features than this one.
- The total hash rate is on a constant decline.
- Keep in mind most people are looking for the next big jump like another Litecoin if they don't see support on a coin they just move on.

I think a coin like this has some high hopes I just don't think this coin is going to be it. If you guys want it to be it then you will want to address some of the issues posted above. One of the first things you should do is get some compiled binaires up there. Particularly Windows ones since one of the allures of YAC is to be able to just run this on any machine that currently isn't doing anything.

I do appreciate all the work a lot of you guys put into it. Especially Windmaster. Thank you for giving it your best shot.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 20, 2013, 03:53:09 AM
You never did anything for YAC except mining it with shitload of AWS-es (I guess it was them with a level of hashrate you had on dontmineme at times), when it was most profitable to do it and kept quiet collecting thousands of them when some of us were fighting against malicious fud here in it's worst hours, so good to see you departing from it but not really complaining as you did what you always planned to, you're just a bit disappointed someone didn't do more job for you to dump them at higher price, probably recently at 00064 as I see that big sell wall lost lot of his powe now :). I hope it was you as it would mean you stopped the rise 2 days ago on your own just to sell it 20% cheaper, would be epic.

At just below 0005 they are in better hands now. I'm glad to see some at times big miners like you and fenican or few more that didn't felt it's necessary (and rightly so) to inform us about their trading activities and post-dump thoughts are out and the price is still in it's usual margins. That was always going to happen and market so far dealt with it pretty well.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: KrLos on May 20, 2013, 04:04:28 AM
any windows client? or a guide for compile it? i'm having issues with the original client, can't download the blockchain.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 20, 2013, 04:08:48 AM
I hope WM will compile windows one soon for people to feel more safe but I don't have problems with downloading blockchain. I have the message about checkpoint but blockchain is downloaded regularly, last block right now was generated 11 seconds ago.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Sahtor on May 20, 2013, 05:31:03 AM
We should ask anderl from 2nd post in original Yacoin thread to post a update of this client.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=99835

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196196.0


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 20, 2013, 05:55:13 AM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: megablue on May 20, 2013, 06:17:49 AM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

Nice!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ntkrnl on May 20, 2013, 06:40:17 AM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip
nice work
lou shang liang wei xia wu hao  8)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: KrLos on May 20, 2013, 06:49:16 AM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

Thanks


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dragon2nd on May 20, 2013, 06:56:39 AM
some statistics from Abe:


EDIT: it's now online at http://yacexplorer.tk/ (http://yacexplorer.tk/)


Nice work. I did try last week but hit a few stumbling blocks, intended to come back to it, so would really appreciate seeing your code to find out what I hadn't managed to figure out.

Some addresses with too many transactions failed to display. Like this one maybe:
http://yacexplorer.tk/address/YJH8f3XKtTXWHpCAgYpQCi5HAQ7SCPGSXA


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: TheSpiral on May 20, 2013, 07:09:11 AM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip
Good deal. I'm assuming the size is how it is because the dll's are included? It works without them, so I suppose. Good work, regardless. :p


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: bitdwarf on May 20, 2013, 07:18:45 AM
- The original developer no longer supports it.

YaCoin has now more developers looking at it than it had at the start. And in so far the code seems to have performed as intended, nothing fundamental needed to be changed in the wooping 11 days since pocopoco's last commit.

- Even though Windmaster is maintaining it. Its really not in his best interest. He would most likely do far better of with his FPGA code on a YAC clone or releasing his own coin.

Or he could end mutually anihilating both the clone and the original. Only a gambler risks a good position for a possibly better position.

- There are no Windows binaries out there of the current fork.

You only needed to ask nicely (or maybe pay a bounty, mmh?).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2207446#msg2207446

- The original version has the checkpoint message which scares a lot of people away.

Or not. I don't think granma is using YaCoins yet.

- If the coin wasn't on BTER I don't think there would be any real trades for it. I don't see a way to spend it otherwise.

The coin is 22 days old. It's a bit early for it to replace the dollar, end hunger, bring world peace, walk the dog and do my laundry.

- The general trend these last couple weeks are people are just cloning coins and releasing them with minimal changes. The odds are high that a YAC clone will be released with more features than this one.

"Minimal changes" and "more features" is a contradiction. There's still no "minimal changes" clone, even less a clone with "more features".

- The total hash rate is on a constant decline.

Or not. The stable rate can be expected to be lower than the post launch spike.

- Keep in mind most people are looking for the next big jump like another Litecoin if they don't see support on a coin they just move on.

YaCoin still isn't competing for resources with new GPU coins.

I think a coin like this has some high hopes I just don't think this coin is going to be it.

I guess it would suck if it was "it" after dumping 80k of them. ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 20, 2013, 07:29:13 AM
Good deal. I'm assuming the size is how it is because the dll's are included? It works without them, so I suppose. Good work, regardless. :p

Oh, yes, I like the client statically compiled ...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 20, 2013, 08:16:14 AM
Some addresses with too many transactions failed to display. Like this one maybe:
http://yacexplorer.tk/address/YJH8f3XKtTXWHpCAgYpQCi5HAQ7SCPGSXA

It exceeded the limit of 1000 transactions (this address has 1960), I bumped it a little (but the result is higher server load, and it's on a crappy hardware).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: evershawn on May 20, 2013, 09:38:06 AM
You never did anything for YAC except mining it with shitload of AWS-es (I guess it was them with a level of hashrate you had on dontmineme at times), when it was most profitable to do it and kept quiet collecting thousands of them when some of us were fighting against malicious fud here in it's worst hours, so good to see you departing from it but not really complaining as you did what you always planned to, you're just a bit disappointed someone didn't do more job for you to dump them at higher price, probably recently at 00064 as I see that big sell wall lost lot of his powe now :). I hope it was you as it would mean you stopped the rise 2 days ago on your own just to sell it 20% cheaper, would be epic.

At just below 0005 they are in better hands now. I'm glad to see some at times big miners like you and fenican or few more that didn't felt it's necessary (and rightly so) to inform us about their trading activities and post-dump thoughts are out and the price is still in it's usual margins. That was always going to happen and market so far dealt with it pretty well.

I sense a lot of unnecessary hate in your post. Someone made a constructive post about YAC and you come in and just post a hate reply that seemed like a direct personal attack, nothing constructive at all here.

Take your meds dude. Your post would say you're jealous that someone knows how to mine better than you do...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 20, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
You never did anything for YAC except mining it with shitload of AWS-es (I guess it was them with a level of hashrate you had on dontmineme at times), when it was most profitable to do it and kept quiet collecting thousands of them when some of us were fighting against malicious fud here in it's worst hours, so good to see you departing from it but not really complaining as you did what you always planned to, you're just a bit disappointed someone didn't do more job for you to dump them at higher price, probably recently at 00064 as I see that big sell wall lost lot of his powe now :). I hope it was you as it would mean you stopped the rise 2 days ago on your own just to sell it 20% cheaper, would be epic.

At just below 0005 they are in better hands now. I'm glad to see some at times big miners like you and fenican or few more that didn't felt it's necessary (and rightly so) to inform us about their trading activities and post-dump thoughts are out and the price is still in it's usual margins. That was always going to happen and market so far dealt with it pretty well.

I sense a lot of unnecessary hate in your post. Someone made a constructive post about YAC and you come in and just post a hate reply that seemed like a direct personal attack, nothing constructive at all here.

Take your meds dude. Your post would say you're jealous that someone knows how to mine better than you do...

You can sense what you want and put the meds you know where :)..

It doesn't have anything how someone mines otherwise I'd hate loads of people who are mining more than me as I mine pretty much nothing. It has more with things that yantis was one who had one of the biggest yac collections and never did anything in our attempts to build infrastructure around coin but was busy mining it despite him being someone who should be much more interested than guys with much less coins. And then after dumping has guts to come and complain about things that lack.. Well, if he activated himself some of his points, valid ones as not all of them are could be done and he, at least, could dump them for more value ;)

I exchanged PMs with him after this and told him same things. He looks like a nice guy and not like some of twats that posted stuff around but still, even for his own good in some next mining adventure, he should know it's not the way things should be done. Windmaster, showed him how it should be done and how you react to protect your investment/property. I'm just sorry I'm such a tech noob and not being able to help him to do planned stuff faster. I am trying to do the best I can with level of capabilities I have, I even tried with selling first exclusively yac payment service few days ago, not because I wanted to work on it and bank from it (I'd sell it for BTC if I wanted that) but to make things moving a bit and help to build confidence and encourage more people to do it and you guess how many big miners went it my thread to support it, even with few words if not by buying it to help building that confidence in masses? Don't guess twice.

Anyway, he's gone, I'm very happy a dump from the guy who had big mining power at times didn't cause almost any damage on the market. Such stuff is always expected to happen and it looks like buying support absorbed his and some other dumps very, very well and it's better and healthier that those coins are in many different hands than in single individual one :)

YAC is the only stand-out coin made recently, just little bit of support of community and it has the chance to be one of the major ones out there. Unfortunately, community still hasn't understood that completely and some coins out there with absolute 0 innovation are outperforming yac on exchanges but this thread is proof that there are some positive movements and I'm optimist it can be done. I'm surely going to be here to help with what I am able to do.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 20, 2013, 02:52:38 PM
New exchange https://www.cryptsy.com with yac trading too.

I'd wait for a bit though, it's pretty laggy and buggy still.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: leadnor on May 20, 2013, 09:14:57 PM
Another n update :( now its so low. hardly getting accepted shares. lol

started at aroun 280kh/s now im on 80 kh/s :(

[2013-05-20 23:09:00] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:02] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:04] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:05] accepted: 104/127 (81.89%), 75.28 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-20 23:09:07] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:10] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:23] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:25] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:26] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:27] accepted: 105/128 (82.03%), 69.01 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-20 23:09:28] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:31] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:32] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:33] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:33] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-20 23:09:36] LONGPOLL detected new block
etc

:(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ralree on May 20, 2013, 09:15:55 PM
Forked the client - now your stolen bitcoins go to a different address.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ralree on May 20, 2013, 09:17:07 PM
(reserved)
This space will be used to reserve space in the future.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 20, 2013, 09:44:53 PM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

Thanks for compiling up an interim Win 64-bit binary.  I was going to start looking into why the scrypt-jane library won't compile cleanly for 32-bit Windows using the mingw32 compiler as reported earlier in the thread but haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm almost ready to push changes to the repository to update the icon and graphics, and have been working on scripting up an NSIS-based installer (similar to InstallShield, but NSIS is open-source) for the Windows client.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Eli0t on May 20, 2013, 10:56:15 PM
Another n update :( now its so low. hardly getting accepted shares. lol
:(

i seem to be getting the same amount of shares but at a slower hash rate, it was quite fun to mine at high hashrates on a CPU but now thats passed and the price is only goin down i feel this coin has been left in the cold while the next fashionable coin does the bter rollercoaster


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on May 21, 2013, 12:44:32 AM
Thanks for compiling up an interim Win 64-bit binary.  I was going to start looking into why the scrypt-jane library won't compile cleanly for 32-bit Windows using the mingw32 compiler as reported earlier in the thread but haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm almost ready to push changes to the repository to update the icon and graphics, and have been working on scripting up an NSIS-based installer (similar to InstallShield, but NSIS is open-source) for the Windows client.

Yes, I also met the problem of the assembly code error. I just turned off some macro options for the SSE & AVX, to make it a plain generic scryp-jane impl.

In file scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h, comment out these parts:
Quote
   #if (defined(COMPILER_MSVC6PP_AND_LATER) || (defined(COMPILER_GCC) && (COMPILER_GCC >= 30000)))
      #define X86ASM_SSE
      #define X86ASM_SSE2
   #endif
   #if ((defined(COMPILER_MSVC) && (COMPILER_MSVC >= 1400)) || (defined(COMPILER_GCC) && (COMPILER_GCC >= 40102)))
      #define X86ASM_SSSE3
   #endif
   #if ((defined(COMPILER_GCC) && (COMPILER_GCC >= 40400)))
      #define X86ASM_AVX
   #endif

But if you want to make the client also has optimized mining capability, need to try to configure CPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS. (gcc intrinsics are always well-organized c code.)




Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ColonelPooteh on May 21, 2013, 12:51:24 AM
For some reason whenever I open my yacoin-qt client it utilizes 100% of my cpu. I have an FX-8350 so there is no reason that it should be doing that. Does anyone have any idea what may be causing that spike?



nevermind, I figured it out. My YaCoin.conf was set to gen=1. I changed it to gen=0 and that fixed the problem.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dragon2nd on May 21, 2013, 01:49:24 AM
May I ask who are the devs (both official and unofficial) of YAC?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: seleme on May 21, 2013, 01:52:04 AM
Dev was killed in the battle  ;D, unofficial should be the WindMaster.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: dragon2nd on May 21, 2013, 03:27:38 AM
Dev was killed in the battle  ;D, unofficial should be the WindMaster.
Nice~


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: microxp on May 21, 2013, 03:49:40 AM
So the unofficial client has became the official client?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cryptrol on May 21, 2013, 05:56:56 AM
So the unofficial client has became the official client?
There has been no word from the original developer since the release so it is "officially" dead.
However in a P2P currency model, "official" development could be taken over whenever there is enough consensus.
And with consensus I mean that people installs and supports the new "unofficial" client.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: CryptoMaster on May 21, 2013, 08:18:35 AM
This last N increase has hit my CPU mining hash rate hard, around 42%. It would be interesting to see how it hit GPU mining to see if the algorithm is going in the right direction.

I'm a bit concerned that N might be getting too big even for CPUs though. My single core EC2 micro-instance was capable of mining (at a slow rate) before the N increase, but now it's pretty much unable. Wondering what the rest of N increases might cause, perhaps the pools need to start adding variable difficulty to cater for slower CPUs or the next N increase might kill a good amount of lower-end ones.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: feeling2011 on May 21, 2013, 08:44:39 AM
This last N increase has hit my CPU mining hash rate hard, around 42%. It would be interesting to see how it hit GPU mining to see if the algorithm is going in the right direction.

I'm a bit concerned that N might be getting too big even for CPUs though. My single core EC2 micro-instance was capable of mining (at a slow rate) before the N increase, but now it's pretty much unable. Wondering what the rest of N increases might cause, perhaps the pools need to start adding variable difficulty to cater for slower CPUs or the next N increase might kill a good amount of lower-end ones.


It seems that mining has no profit with the current YaCoin price.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cryptrol on May 21, 2013, 08:48:20 AM
This last N increase has hit my CPU mining hash rate hard, around 42%. It would be interesting to see how it hit GPU mining to see if the algorithm is going in the right direction.

+1


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sumantso on May 21, 2013, 09:45:33 AM
Opened the wallet and it says 'Checkpoint too old......'. I will just ignore it for now? On windows 32 bit.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 21, 2013, 11:07:36 AM
This last N increase has hit my CPU mining hash rate hard, around 42%. It would be interesting to see how it hit GPU mining to see if the algorithm is going in the right direction.

Fortunately, difficulty will drop accordingly over time.  It's too bad it doesn't rise or fall with a larger increment (faster rate) per block though.  It's just a bit of a waiting game at this point for difficulty to become more reasonable.  It's dropping quickly though, I see it's down to about 4.4 now.


I'm a bit concerned that N might be getting too big even for CPUs though. My single core EC2 micro-instance was capable of mining (at a slow rate) before the N increase, but now it's pretty much unable. Wondering what the rest of N increases might cause, perhaps the pools need to start adding variable difficulty to cater for slower CPUs or the next N increase might kill a good amount of lower-end ones.

I think at a minimum, pool operators need to stay on top of Nfactor++ events and adjust work size / difficulty to keep things working smoothly and keep the average time to solve a share below the average time between blocks.  Otherwise everyone solo mining (like me) actually beat out pools with poorly adjusted work size.  I still leave a handful of dual Xeon servers mining for testing purposes and their block solving rate still seems to be tracking inversely proportional with hash rate and difficulty.  At this point, N is still way lower than Litecoin always had.

An Amazon micro instance mining on a poorly adjusted pool would indeed be a losing battle at this point, I'd think.  That's basically just a small shared fraction of a single Xeon core!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 21, 2013, 11:11:57 AM
Opened the wallet and it says 'Checkpoint too old......'. I will just ignore it for now? On windows 32 bit.

For Win32, just ignore it.  The warning is harmless, an artifact left over from the original developer who should've at least adjusted the time before the warning appears to a more reasonable timeframe than 10 days after the release (or more accurately, 10 days after the last checkpoint, which he added just after the coin was released).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: eule on May 21, 2013, 11:58:57 AM
Someone with a GPU farm and a GPU miner could easily 51%-attack the coin right now, right?
Should be top priority to get a GPU miner for the masses, even if it's unoptimized. Maybe everyone of us should donate to the bounty or we should do some effort to get an open source miner.
0.02€


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: Sahtor on May 21, 2013, 12:10:54 PM
N rising is not a problem if we get back to CPU server/laptop based mining. The problem is if GPU or AWS farms raised the difficulty too high to not readjust back to lower levels before even speculated future profitability drops and the mining freezes.

Basicly it doesnt matter which hardware works best but we can't have sudden volatility in difficulty or the currency dies.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 21, 2013, 07:56:03 PM
Changes committed to my GitHub repository:

 - Fix my previously added feature that reports N and Nfactor in the getmininginfo command.  It was only reporting what N and Nfactor were when yacoind was last started, not what it is at the immediate moment.  Duh, fixed.  :)

 - Added getnetworkhashps command to show estimated network hash rate.  This implementation was mostly lifted from Litecoin, still need to verify that it makes sense and operates correctly for YACoin.

 - Added network hash rate and the PoW block reward of the highest block on the blockchain to the info reported by the getmininginfo command:

Quote
yacoin@blah:~/wm/yacoin/src$ ~/yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 67663,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 4.10475631,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : 8,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "networkhashps" : 88885983,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 7,
    "N" : 256,
    "powreward" : 19.75000000
}

Note that this is reporting what the block reward was for the last block on the blockchain, not necessarily what the block reward is going to be for the next mined block.  So use this as an estimate of approximately what the current block reward is, knowing that the actual reward of the next mined block may/will differ slightly.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cryptohunter on May 21, 2013, 08:11:50 PM
Opened the wallet and it says 'Checkpoint too old......'. I will just ignore it for now? On windows 32 bit.

For Win32, just ignore it.  The warning is harmless, an artifact left over from the original developer who should've at least adjusted the time before the warning appears to a more reasonable timeframe than 10 days after the release (or more accurately, 10 days after the last checkpoint, which he added just after the coin was released).


Im getting this warning too?  checkpoint too old? on win7 64bit? will the wallet still be able to send and receive coins? thanks


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: WindMaster on May 21, 2013, 08:19:08 PM
Opened the wallet and it says 'Checkpoint too old......'. I will just ignore it for now? On windows 32 bit.

For Win32, just ignore it.  The warning is harmless, an artifact left over from the original developer who should've at least adjusted the time before the warning appears to a more reasonable timeframe than 10 days after the release (or more accurately, 10 days after the last checkpoint, which he added just after the coin was released).


Im getting this warning too?  checkpoint too old? on win7 64bit? will the wallet still be able to send and receive coins? thanks

The warning is harmless.  But for Win 64-bit, you have the option of using an interim Windows 64-bit binary that hanzac compiled of my version of the client (which doesn't show that warning) and provided a link to it a page back in this thread.  All the usual warnings about running third-party binaries apply of course.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cryptohunter on May 21, 2013, 08:21:16 PM
Opened the wallet and it says 'Checkpoint too old......'. I will just ignore it for now? On windows 32 bit.

For Win32, just ignore it.  The warning is harmless, an artifact left over from the original developer who should've at least adjusted the time before the warning appears to a more reasonable timeframe than 10 days after the release (or more accurately, 10 days after the last checkpoint, which he added just after the coin was released).


Im getting this warning too?  checkpoint too old? on win7 64bit? will the wallet still be able to send and receive coins? thanks

The warning is harmless.  But for Win 64-bit, you have the option of using an interim Windows 64-bit binary that hanzac compiled of my version of the client (which doesn't show that warning) and provided a link to it a page back in this thread.  All the usual warnings about running third-party binaries apply of course.

Thanks for quick reply :) very helpful.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: ginjou on May 21, 2013, 09:24:20 PM
As it seems like pocopoco was only a multi account and that he won't show his face again, maybe you windmaster, should post your thread and the news about this fork on the official thread and ask a moderator to get the control of the first post of the official thread, don't you think?
This way, it will become official and the monney can regain a little bit of its previous fame :)

Because the way it is now, the official thread seems dead and the warning on the official windows wallet looks frightening for the noobs, so it doesn't look good for the reputation of the monney :/

I'm suggesting the idea because i beleave in this monney, but my skills in programming don't allow me to help in a better way :(

PS: sorry for the not so fluent english :(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sairon on May 21, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
maybe it would be sufficient to just drop "unofficial client fork" from the topic, it might scare a lot of people :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 21, 2013, 09:49:03 PM
maybe it would be sufficient to just drop "unofficial client fork" from the topic, it might scare a lot of people :)

True.  That is now dropped from the topic title.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ecliptic on May 21, 2013, 11:10:19 PM
crossposting

This is a very bad idea.  You have just introduced another litecoin cgminer gpu catastrophe

I would not be surprised if people, maybe even many people independently, have forked and created their own cgminer in secret which is capable of utilizing GPUs, giving them several order of magnitude advantage over everyone else.

Actually, this is already happening. I've seen 3 people posting they have working opencl kernels (two of them had relatively low hashrates, the third one claims to be the dev of the Reaper litecoin gpu miner and has hashrates in the Mh/s range).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 21, 2013, 11:15:27 PM
"moneysupply" : 2826236

If anyone is GPU mining, they are definitely not moving much the total supply.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 21, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
crossposting

This is a very bad idea.  You have just introduced another litecoin cgminer gpu catastrophe

I would not be surprised if people, maybe even many people independently, have forked and created their own cgminer in secret which is capable of utilizing GPUs, giving them several order of magnitude advantage over everyone else.

Actually, this is already happening. I've seen 3 people posting they have working opencl kernels (two of them had relatively low hashrates, the third one claims to be the dev of the Reaper litecoin gpu miner and has hashrates in the Mh/s range).

You're actually crossposting to a thread where this isn't particularly groundbreaking news.  This thread is where the information sairon posted came from, and I believe I'm one of the 3 people sairon refers to as having benchmarked a working OpenCL kernel (which had relatively low hash rates).  Recommend reading more than just the last page of this thread and the official YACoin thread, as this has been discussed to death already (in both threads).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 21, 2013, 11:50:22 PM
Just found this, dunno what it means... Take a look at block #65950. Now look at its timestamp and comapre it with the previous and next blocks. The block #65951 actually references a block from the future (2 hours) as its predecessor. WTF? ???

Code:
blockNumber,time,target,avgTargetSinceLast,difficulty,hashesToWin,avgIntervalSinceLast,netHashPerSecond
65948,1368947791,4514804921008731308454430435778960213168305865242321266277686968320,4513641497971115828711486814529046024528909146303095102832514587060,5.971,25647196559,171,150022265
65949,1368947926,4516461674132362327428514198696163951811506256528911325690882686976,4514804921112633307813024314283998771971589842941187092551326050290,5.969,25637788514,135,189979234
65950,1368954783,4517581709949210843650566946274525742145464232015577932297087746048,4516461674301031541131425724681672434723711469088240722175479913075,5.967,25631432184,6857,3738922
65951,1368947984,4619111269461582367239859195192825077698022061568762349217099284480,4517581710069151063071590748558847984710411633611607164785871725281,5.836,25068045016,-6799,Infinity
65952,1368948016,4514350157542206014206452060506827664151792081795080735905296678912,4619111269483137401095330193924680793834345357377930282214297105835,5.972,25649780189,32,783376407
65953,1368948106,4513930746712654417744535608400726620712533786813703426975283019776,4514350157549266139778184631237032541778948367955566187930484179163,5.972,25652163432,90,284997558

http://yacexplorer.tk/chain/Yacoin/q/nethash/1/65940/65960 (http://yacexplorer.tk/chain/Yacoin/q/nethash/1/65940/65960)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on May 21, 2013, 11:59:16 PM
netHashPerSecond : Infinity
YAC to the moon!  :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 12:01:56 AM
Just found this, dunno what it means... Take a look at block #65950. Now look at its timestamp and comapre it with the previous and next blocks. The block #65951 actually references a block from the future (2 hours) as its predecessor. WTF? ???

Code:
blockNumber,time,target,avgTargetSinceLast,difficulty,hashesToWin,avgIntervalSinceLast,netHashPerSecond
65948,1368947791,4514804921008731308454430435778960213168305865242321266277686968320,4513641497971115828711486814529046024528909146303095102832514587060,5.971,25647196559,171,150022265
65949,1368947926,4516461674132362327428514198696163951811506256528911325690882686976,4514804921112633307813024314283998771971589842941187092551326050290,5.969,25637788514,135,189979234
65950,1368954783,4517581709949210843650566946274525742145464232015577932297087746048,4516461674301031541131425724681672434723711469088240722175479913075,5.967,25631432184,6857,3738922
65951,1368947984,4619111269461582367239859195192825077698022061568762349217099284480,4517581710069151063071590748558847984710411633611607164785871725281,5.836,25068045016,-6799,Infinity
65952,1368948016,4514350157542206014206452060506827664151792081795080735905296678912,4619111269483137401095330193924680793834345357377930282214297105835,5.972,25649780189,32,783376407
65953,1368948106,4513930746712654417744535608400726620712533786813703426975283019776,4514350157549266139778184631237032541778948367955566187930484179163,5.972,25652163432,90,284997558

http://yacexplorer.tk/chain/Yacoin/q/nethash/1/65940/65960 (http://yacexplorer.tk/chain/Yacoin/q/nethash/1/65940/65960)

Unless I'm mistaken (and I could be, as I have not closely scrutinized that part of the code), the timestamp comes from the time on the computer yacoind is running on when that user successfully mines a block.  There aren't any validity checks to determine that the time on someone's computer is set correctly, I believe the timestamp goes into the block unchecked by anyone else (there isn't anything else to check it against anyway, unless NTP were incorporated into the client or something, rather than relying on the computer's time) and is there just for information purposes.  Unless I'm mistaken, the person who mined block 65950 may just have had their time set incorrectly.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 22, 2013, 12:04:58 AM
Unless I'm mistaken (and I could be, as I have not closely scrutinized that part of the code), the timestamp comes from the time on the computer yacoind is running on when that user successfully mines a block.  There aren't any validity checks to determine that the time on someone's computer is set correctly, I believe the timestamp goes into the block unchecked by anyone else and is there just for information purposes.  Unless I'm mistaken, the person who mined block 65950 may just have had their time set incorrectly.

You're probably right, even https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_timestamp (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_timestamp) says just this:

Quote
A timestamp is accepted as valid if it is greater than the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks, and less than the network-adjusted time + 2 hours. "Network-adjusted time" is the median of the timestamps returned by all nodes connected to you.

EDIT: But my graphs look ugly now :(
http://imgur.com/GA5YeBa (http://imgur.com/GA5YeBa)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 22, 2013, 12:13:25 AM
Quote
A timestamp is accepted as valid if it is greater than the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks, and less than the network-adjusted time + 2 hours. "Network-adjusted time" is the median of the timestamps returned by all nodes connected to you.

EDIT: But my graphs look ugly now :(
http://imgur.com/GA5YeBa (http://imgur.com/GA5YeBa)

If the node can access the "Network-adjusted time", why not using it directly as the block completion time? It doesn't make sense to use the single node's timestamp.

Moreover, I think from the block chain, we can only see the transaction completion time (the block is completed) but without the transaction open time? This information might be needed for the both party of the transaction to check for a time-critical transaction.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 22, 2013, 12:19:59 AM
Difficulty will "think" it took much longer than 60 seconds to find that specific block so it will adjust result downward, a bit.

By 0.131 in this case. Seems like quite a bit when we're talking in numbers less than 6. :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 22, 2013, 12:28:41 AM
Difficulty will "think" it took much longer than 60 seconds to find that specific block so it will adjust result downward, a bit.

By 0.131 in this case. Seems like quite a bit when we're talking in numbers less than 6. :D

It seems that the next block took the beneficial:
65953   2013-05-19 07:21:46   2   88.9   5.972   2792270.214184   7.0035   11.0751   29.3145%
65952   2013-05-19 07:20:16   1   18.56   5.972   2792251.664184   7.00252   11.074   29.3174%
65951   2013-05-19 07:19:44   1   18.63   5.836   2792233.104184   7.0022   11.0737   29.3185%
65950   2013-05-19 09:13:03   1   18.549999   5.967   2792214.474184   7.08094   11.1523   29.0875%
65949   2013-05-19 07:18:46   3   40.141702   5.969   2792195.924185   7.00162   11.073   29.3205%


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 22, 2013, 12:35:09 AM
Some people are indeed bloody creative  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 12:47:25 AM
Meanwhile, looks like difficulty has now dropped below 4, with still enough hash power that there's little likelihood we'll stall out forever(ish) in excessive difficulty land like certain other {alt|scam}coin launches.

./yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 67785,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 3.96142507,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : true,
    "genproclimit" : 8,
    "hashespersec" : 105300,
    "networkhashps" : 117643499,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 7,
    "N" : 256,
    "powreward" : 19.87000000
}


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 04:14:11 AM
I have calculated the complete schedule of N changes for YACoin out to the last increment, N=30, occurring in the year 2421.  The table is posted in the YACoin technical data on the first page of this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620)

I certainly have my own opinion about the way N will change over the coming centuries and how it compares with Moore's Law.  You guys can draw your own conclusions.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tacotime on May 22, 2013, 04:22:47 AM
YACoin Technical Data
(this post will contain information about the basic parameters of YACoin, including more information on the hashing algorithm which is *not* called scrypt-jane, timeframe for N increases, PoS details when they become known, etc)


The schedule of N changes for YACoin is:

Nfactor   N   Memory   UNIX Time    Date/Time in GMT
4324kB1367991200Wed - 08 May 2013 - 05:33:20 GMT
5648kB1368515488Tue - 14 May 2013 - 07:11:28 GMT
612816kB1368777632Fri - 17 May 2013 - 08:00:32 GMT
725632kB1369039776Mon - 20 May 2013 - 08:49:36 GMT
851264kB1369826208Wed - 29 May 2013 - 11:16:48 GMT
91024128kB1370088352Sat - 01 Jun 2013 - 12:05:52 GMT
102048256kB1372185504Tue - 25 Jun 2013 - 18:38:24 GMT
114096512kB1373234080Sun - 07 Jul 2013 - 21:54:40 GMT
1281921MB1376379808Tue - 13 Aug 2013 - 07:43:28 GMT
13163842MB1380574112Mon - 30 Sep 2013 - 20:48:32 GMT
14327684MB1384768416Mon - 18 Nov 2013 - 09:53:36 GMT
15655368MB1401545632Sat - 31 May 2014 - 14:13:52 GMT
1613107216MB1409934240Fri - 05 Sep 2014 - 16:24:00 GMT
1726214432MB1435100064Tue - 23 Jun 2015 - 22:54:24 GMT
1852428864MB1468654496Sat - 16 Jul 2016 - 07:34:56 GMT
191048576128MB1502208928Tue - 08 Aug 2017 - 16:15:28 GMT
202097152256MB1602872224Fri - 16 Oct 2020 - 18:17:04 GMT
214194304512MB1636426656Tue - 09 Nov 2021 - 02:57:36 GMT
2283886081GB1904862112Mon - 13 May 2030 - 00:21:52 GMT
23167772162GB2173297568Sat - 13 Nov 2038 - 21:46:08 GMT
24335544324GB2441733024Fri - 17 May 2047 - 19:10:24 GMT
25671088648GB3247039392Tue - 22 Nov 2072 - 11:23:12 GMT
2613421772816GB3515474848Mon - 26 May 2081 - 08:47:28 GMT
2726843545632GB5662958496Sat - 14 Jun 2149 - 12:01:36 GMT
2853687091264GB6736700320Tue - 24 Jun 2183 - 01:38:40 GMT
291073741824128GB9957925792Tue - 21 Jul 2285 - 18:29:52 GMT
302147483648256GB14252893088Sat - 28 Aug 2421 - 00:58:08 GMT


N is calculated from Nfactor as follows:
N = 1 << ( Nfactor + 1 )

Solid, within a year hashes will go from MH/s to double digit H/s  ::)  Network difficulty will drop like crazy and block reward will explode, destroying any value the coin might have had.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on May 22, 2013, 06:11:15 AM
Solid, within a year hashes will go from MH/s to double digit H/s  ::)  Network difficulty will drop like crazy and block reward will explode, destroying any value the coin might have had.

Can you elaborate ? Isn't difficulty supposed to adjust while hashpower goes down ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on May 22, 2013, 06:22:44 AM
Block reward is based on difficulty and it will increase in the near future. Ofcourse we're already in <20 reward state which I consider to be deflationary. I'd consider 2.8M money supply to be almost static. If reward rises back to 50 or even 90 then we'd be in inflationary times.

All this will even out when more people adopt YAC. More miners will produce higher difficulty and that will lower the reward again.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 06:47:55 AM
Solid, within a year hashes will go from MH/s to double digit H/s  ::)  Network difficulty will drop like crazy and block reward will explode, destroying any value the coin might have had.

While I often agree with a number of the things you've said, I'm worried you're starting to exaggerate.  In the main YACoin thread, today you posted that anyone could've developed a GPU miner days in advance, yet only the original developer (and anyone he tipped off) could've been aware he was going to pull a surprise move and use a different hashing algorithm than anyone was expecting.  Changing from scrypt+salsa20/8+SHA256(1024,1,1) to scrypt+chacha20/8+Keccak512(N,1,1) did turn out to be significantly more than just a copy-paste exercise from the scrypt-jane library source, at least for anything that was going to go faster on GPU's than typical desktop CPU's.

In your comment above, I think your numbers are exaggerated a bit.  I just benchmarked with a Linux build of cpuminer and forced N to various values:

Platform: IBM HS21 blade server, 2x Xeon E5450's (similar combined performance to one i7-2600k).

For N=32 (at coin's launch), hash rate = 358.77 kH/sec
For N=256 (right now), hash rate = 119.25 kH/sec
For N=32768 (in one year), hash rate = 0.606 kH/sec

Both your upper bound (MH/sec) and lower bound (double digit H/sec) are off by an order of magnitude each in the typical CPU hashing performance scenario, so your statement is really off by 2 orders of magnitude overall.

I'm all for pointing out problems with a coin when it's justified.  As you know, on day 1 of the coin launch, I was right there alongside you posting about the probability that GPU implementation was very likely to be possible, and I also posted honest details about my server farm mining, Amazon AWS mining, FPGA implementation at N=32, and the results of my GPU implementation.  You did parade a lot of that info as evidence of premining in the first post of your Superfun Premining thread, even though I started mining a whopping 8.5 hours after launch and I seriously doubt anyone can accuse me of either premining or instamining.  That probably pissed off plenty of people that would like those things to have remained secret, but I believe transparency and honesty is the answer to developing trust and keeping everyone in-the-loop on technical matters.

I think I have yet to sugar-coat anything related to YACoin, however.  When people grill me on the hard questions about whether YACoin is GPU mining resistant at any particular value of N, even though I'm not the original developer and didn't choose the hashing algorithm or starting value of N, and apparently made myself the "YACoin lightning rod" by actually stepping up to improve problems with the code and make it a better coin rather than just complain about it, I'm still right there being perfectly honest and saying "maybe, maybe not, we don't know yet until we see the source code for some of those GPU implementations."  We've had one person post OpenCL source in this thread that was pretty close to a copy-paste from the scrypt-jane library with a few tweaks, and from my analysis, he did get fairly close to a working implementation, but once fixed, the hash rate isn't spectacular.  It's appearing that getting a working OpenCL implementation is not difficult (well, debugging anything on OpenCL is an "adventure"), but getting one that performs much better than CPU's actually does take a fairly good OpenCL skillset (i.e. if mtrlt's posted hash rate numbers are accurate, which they may well be since he was the developer of the Reaper scrypt GPU kernel that cgminer uses too, then he probably sets the mark for skillset needed to correctly optimize for decent hash rates).

So, anyway, when I see exaggerations that are off by 2 orders of magnitude, I'm afraid I'll have to call you out on it (as much as I respect you).  I'd prefer to see you discredit a coin with accurate info, not exaggerations.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeling2011 on May 22, 2013, 07:33:27 AM
[YaCoin] Help, I send yacoin to same address in about 22 minutes


The second transaction always: Unconfirmed (0 of 6 confirmations).

The second transaction ID:
Transaction ID: c5dbdf30ca01025970ff4f6da5c6650d121643d332f5102eb1d36b7a22643bf8

Can anyone help me?

thanks.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 22, 2013, 08:41:30 AM
...
I'm all for pointing out problems with a coin when it's justified.  As you know, on day 1 of the coin launch, I was right there alongside you posting about the probability that GPU implementation was very likely to be possible, and I also posted honest details about my server farm mining, Amazon AWS mining, FPGA implementation at N=32, and the results of my GPU implementation.  You did parade a lot of that info as evidence of premining in the first post of your Superfun Premining thread, even though I started mining a whopping 8.5 hours after launch and I seriously doubt anyone can accuse me of either premining or instamining.  That probably pissed off plenty of people that would like those things to have remained secret, but I believe transparency and honesty is the answer to developing trust and keeping everyone in-the-loop on technical matters.
...

TBH, I don't think transparency & honesty is the essence & key for trust. Do you imagine what if some one takes off all his clothes & pants and you then give your precious trust? This is silly and pity.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 08:49:32 AM
TBH, I don't think transparency & honesty is the essence & key for trust. Do you imagine what if some one takes off all his clothes & pants and you then give your precious trust? This is silly and pity.

I don't quite follow that analogy.  Are you suggesting it would be better if I sugar-coat everything and say there's no possibility GPU implementations exist?  I'm not sure that would do much to increase trust..  I'm fairly certain no one wants to see me naked either.  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 22, 2013, 09:06:22 AM
I don't quite follow that analogy.  Are you suggesting it would be better if I sugar-coat everything and say there's no possibility GPU implementations exist?

I just want to say that most common people also expect respect in the first place. Transparency and honesty are too much for them sometimes. For the GPU implementations also have this effect, if the community shows more respect for the software developers, they will give much more instead of hiding innovative things / creating copy-cats / gold rushes / etc.

You did right to tell the truth, but things are not just easy to expand.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tacotime on May 22, 2013, 01:29:20 PM
Solid, within a year hashes will go from MH/s to double digit H/s  ::)  Network difficulty will drop like crazy and block reward will explode, destroying any value the coin might have had.

While I often agree with a number of the things you've said, I'm worried you're starting to exaggerate.  In the main YACoin thread, today you posted that anyone could've developed a GPU miner days in advance, yet only the original developer (and anyone he tipped off) could've been aware he was going to pull a surprise move and use a different hashing algorithm than anyone was expecting.  Changing from scrypt+salsa20/8+SHA256(1024,1,1) to scrypt+chacha20/8+Keccak512(N,1,1) did turn out to be significantly more than just a copy-paste exercise from the scrypt-jane library source, at least for anything that was going to go faster on GPU's than typical desktop CPU's.

In your comment above, I think your numbers are exaggerated a bit.  I just benchmarked with a Linux build of cpuminer and forced N to various values:

Platform: IBM HS21 blade server, 2x Xeon E5450's (similar combined performance to one i7-2600k).

For N=32 (at coin's launch), hash rate = 358.77 kH/sec
For N=256 (right now), hash rate = 119.25 kH/sec
For N=32768 (in one year), hash rate = 0.606 kH/sec

So, anyway, when I see exaggerations that are off by 2 orders of magnitude, I'm afraid I'll have to call you out on it (as much as I respect you).  I'd prefer to see you discredit a coin with accurate info, not exaggerations.

I benched at around 100 ms/hash per thread with a 2700k when using 8 MB.  This was more than a year ago using scrypt jane, so maybe the code has been optimized. Also note that above you hash in the hundreds of hashes per second; I said that you would hit "double digits of H/s", making the difference one order of magnitude, not two.

You need to address the problem with block reward with a hard fork as soon as possible, in my opinion.  You'll probably end up with a slightly more valuable coin if you relaunch it later forking from the litecoin code instead once the GPU miner has been released.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on May 22, 2013, 03:28:02 PM
I have an off topic question, and hopefully someone may be in the mood to enlighten me.  :)

What kind of work is better done on the vector units of CPU rather than the GPU, provided the GPU isn't too busy doing things like rendering? My first interest about this question came from gaming hardware, but then thought it may relate to people designing a coin for which GPU has less of an advantage in mining.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 04:32:17 PM
I benched at around 100 ms/hash per thread with a 2700k when using 8 MB.  This was more than a year ago using scrypt jane, so maybe the code has been optimized. Also note that above you hash in the hundreds of hashes per second; I said that you would hit "double digits of H/s", making the difference one order of magnitude, not two.

Solid, within a year hashes will go from MH/s to double digit H/s  ::)  Network difficulty will drop like crazy and block reward will

You were off by a pretty large amount at both ends of the numbers you said hash rate would traverse over the course of a year.  However, with a more thorough calculation:

Best interpretation (most favorable to you) of your statement is that hash rates go from 1MH/sec to 99.999 H/sec over the course of the first year, a decrease in speed of about 10000x.  My benchmark showed a decrease of speed over the course of the first year of 358.77kH/sec to 0.606kH/sec with one particular common server CPU, a decrease in speed of about 592x.

10000 vs 592.  Or we could calculate that as 10000 / 592 = 16.9 and call that a single order of magnitude (plus change).  A strict interpretation of Wikipedia's "order of magnitude" article would suggest that this is the correct way.  So, I concede that you were off by a bit more than an order of magnitude if we analyze the most favorable interpretation of your statement.


I benched at around 100 ms/hash per thread with a 2700k when using 8 MB.  This was more than a year ago using scrypt jane, so maybe the code has been optimized.

Was the scrypt-jane library available somewhere prior to September 13, 2012?  If so, I'd like to snag a copy of that earlier version you benchmarked with.  Which hashing algorithm in the scrypt-jane library was that benchmark performed with?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mtrlt on May 22, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
I did some GPU testing with high N values. The gist is: at N=8192, I couldn't get it to output valid shares any more. Therefore, with current information, it seems that GPU mining will stop on 13 Aug 2013 - 07:43:28 GMT when N goes to 8192.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on May 22, 2013, 06:40:16 PM
So people can GPU mine yacoin now?:O


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 22, 2013, 06:42:30 PM
pocopoco really made some kick ass coin, shame he used his alter ego for it and never looked back at it.

With all these copycats out there recently it's the only coin that took some time and skills to be made.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on May 22, 2013, 06:43:50 PM
So who is pocopoco?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 22, 2013, 06:46:36 PM
YaCoin creator


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on May 22, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
YaCoin creator

I know that, but you said he used his alter ego. :)

So pocopoco should be someone else.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 22, 2013, 08:17:22 PM
With all these copycats out there recently it's the only coin that took some time and skills to be made.

It's interesting and unique enough (as indicated by the speculation and debates it provides (such as those by WM and taco))  that I've kept an eye on it since day one. The only thing that the cookie cutter coins have provided is a point-and-shoot solution for the pump~dumpers. YAC has some substance, which - along with active development, should hopefully keep it viable for the long term.    


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 22, 2013, 08:19:45 PM
YaCoin creator

I know that, but you said he used his alter ego. :)

So pocopoco should be someone else.

I don't have a proof for that but I'm fairly sure he is some other guy. He is obviously very knowledgeable and I don't think he appeared just like that.

Damn, I guess WindMaster might have some other nick too :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sunny King on May 22, 2013, 08:37:57 PM
It's good that yacoin did not change the 1 week average window of ppcoin's adjustment. So the attack can only change difficulty by ~2.5% for the next block, which may or may not be attacker's block.

This is not an exploit specific to the continuous difficulty adjustment of ppcoin. In bitcoin style step adjustment, an attacker can manipulate the timestamp of the last block of an adjustment interval. If attacker manages to mine the last block of an adjustment interval, the entire next interval's difficulty could be lowered. That's why one should stay with a longer adjustment window.

Bitcoin has +/- 2 hours maximimum block time offset since ages. I think it does not really matter much if block time is valid or not for as long as miner who added such block to
blockchain stays under 50% of network hashpower. Difficulty calculation takes block times in equation but one or few screwed blocks can't screw the result much. If some miner
would have 50% or more of network hashpower he could ruin difficulty calculation but he could ruin many other things as well, including much more important stuff than difficulty.

But make no mistake, some miner or few of them are playing with YAC block times on purpose. By putting block time in the future, he wants to affect difficulty calculation in such
a way that resulting difficulty is lower than it should be. Difficulty will "think" it took much longer than 60 seconds to find that specific block so it will adjust result downward, a bit.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on May 22, 2013, 08:41:03 PM
why does n stay at 512 for only a few days?

7      256      32kB      1369039776      Mon - 20 May 2013 - 08:49:36 GMT
8      512      64kB      1369826208      Wed - 29 May 2013 - 11:16:48 GMT
9      1024      128kB   1370088352      Sat - 01 Jun 2013 - 12:05:52 GMT



I appreciate all the discussion in this thread. and specifically the posts by windmaster.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 08:48:00 PM
why does n stay at 512 for only a few days?

The actual code that calculates the Nfactor isn't a nice smooth progression, it combines a couple calculations together that each cause Nfactor to change on different intervals.  The actual code in main.cpp looks like this, if curious:

Code:
int64 nChainStartTime = 1367991200;

const unsigned char minNfactor = 4;
const unsigned char maxNfactor = 30;

unsigned char GetNfactor(int64 nTimestamp) {
    int l = 0;

    if (nTimestamp <= nChainStartTime)
        return 4;

    int64 s = nTimestamp - nChainStartTime;
    while ((s >> 1) > 3) {
      l += 1;
      s >>= 1;
    }

    s &= 3;

    int n = (l * 170 + s * 25 - 2320) / 100;

    if (n < 0) n = 0;

    if (n > 255)
        printf( "GetNfactor(%lld) - something wrong(n == %d)\n", nTimestamp, n );

    unsigned char N = (unsigned char) n;
    //printf("GetNfactor: %d -> %d %d : %d / %d\n", nTimestamp - nChainStartTime, l, s, n, min(max(N, minNfactor), maxNfa

    return min(max(N, minNfactor), maxNfactor);
}


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 22, 2013, 09:00:57 PM
I did some GPU testing with high N values. The gist is: at N=8192, I couldn't get it to output valid shares any more. Therefore, with current information, it seems that GPU mining will stop on 13 Aug 2013 - 07:43:28 GMT when N goes to 8192.

Very interesting news. Might there be some additional optimizations that you could do to get it to output (perhaps like messing with the lookup gap or some other TMTO hacks?)

I'm wondering two things:
a) why do you think it stopped working at 8192 (physical GPU limitation with current gen GPUs, or more a limitation of the code that can be more easily overcome)?
b) does CPU mining still work at 8192 and beyond? (if not, then we have a problem on our hand that would at minimum necessitate a hard fork I'd think).

Thanks for your insightful work on the GPU miner around YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 22, 2013, 09:19:19 PM
Since we are doing some Q & A, I've been wondering if an insane high N would (painfully try to) use swap memory.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 09:25:22 PM
b) does CPU mining still work at 8192 and beyond?

Benchmark and test run at N=32768 I ran and posted on the previous page to dispute TacoTime's claim hash rates will drop to double digits in a year:

Quote
Platform: IBM HS21 blade server, 2x Xeon E5450's (similar combined performance to one i7-2600k).

For N=32 (at coin's launch), hash rate = 358.77 kH/sec
For N=256 (right now), hash rate = 119.25 kH/sec
For N=32768 (in one year), hash rate = 0.606 kH/sec

(if not, then we have a problem on our hand that would at minimum necessitate a hard fork I'd think).

If the scrypt-jane library starts having trouble at certain values of N (and it looks fine up through at least N=32768 that I've tested so far), I'd think we would only need to fix the problem in the library and release a new update to the client, rather than hard fork.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tacotime on May 22, 2013, 09:28:37 PM
I benched at around 100 ms/hash per thread with a 2700k when using 8 MB.  This was more than a year ago using scrypt jane, so maybe the code has been optimized. Also note that above you hash in the hundreds of hashes per second; I said that you would hit "double digits of H/s", making the difference one order of magnitude, not two.

Solid, within a year hashes will go from MH/s to double digit H/s  ::)  Network difficulty will drop like crazy and block reward will

You were off by a pretty large amount at both ends of the numbers you said hash rate would traverse over the course of a year.  However, with a more thorough calculation:

Best interpretation (most favorable to you) of your statement is that hash rates go from 1MH/sec to 99.999 H/sec over the course of the first year, a decrease in speed of about 10000x.  My benchmark showed a decrease of speed over the course of the first year of 358.77kH/sec to 0.606kH/sec with one particular common server CPU, a decrease in speed of about 592x.

10000 vs 592.  Or we could calculate that as 10000 / 592 = 16.9 and call that a single order of magnitude (plus change).  A strict interpretation of Wikipedia's "order of magnitude" article would suggest that this is the correct way.  So, I concede that you were off by a bit more than an order of magnitude if we analyze the most favorable interpretation of your statement.


I benched at around 100 ms/hash per thread with a 2700k when using 8 MB.  This was more than a year ago using scrypt jane, so maybe the code has been optimized.

Was the scrypt-jane library available somewhere prior to September 13, 2012?  If so, I'd like to snag a copy of that earlier version you benchmarked with.  Which hashing algorithm in the scrypt-jane library was that benchmark performed with?

You're a feisty one.  You're correct on the date, it was during the memcoin thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122256.0) which was apparently November of last year, so I guess only six months old.  Guess my memory slipped, but things move quickly these days.

Quote
If the scrypt-jane library starts having trouble at certain values of N (and it looks fine up through at least N=32768 that I've tested so far), I'd think we would only need to fix the problem in the library and release a new update to the client, rather than hard fork.

It works fine above that, I've used it beyond 32768 (see that thread).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 09:32:34 PM
Since we are doing some Q & A, I've been wondering if an insane high N would (painfully try to) use swap memory.

Have a look at the table of N increments I posted:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620)

The memory column shows how much memory is needed to compute a hash (assuming no TMTO shortcut is in use).  Total memory required is equal to that multiplied by the number of hashes you're trying to compute simultaneously.  For CPU mining, it would be the number in that table multiplied by the number of threads you're using.

As you can see from the table, it's going to be a couple decades before N reaches high enough that even today's typical desktop PC would start swapping.  Even in the year 2421, memory requirements only rise up to 256GB at Nfactor=30, and Nfactor won't go any higher than that (it's capped at 30).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mtrlt on May 22, 2013, 09:33:48 PM
I did some GPU testing with high N values. The gist is: at N=8192, I couldn't get it to output valid shares any more. Therefore, with current information, it seems that GPU mining will stop on 13 Aug 2013 - 07:43:28 GMT when N goes to 8192.

a) why do you think it stopped working at 8192 (physical GPU limitation with current gen GPUs, or more a limitation of the code that can be more easily overcome)?

I don't know yet. It just stops working on its own.

Quote
b) does CPU mining still work at 8192 and beyond? (if not, then we have a problem on our hand that would at minimum necessitate a hard fork I'd think).

Yes, in fact I tested CPU mining up to N=2^19=524288, where my puny Phenom x6 1055T got around 12 H/s.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 22, 2013, 09:43:53 PM
As you can see from the table, it's going to be a couple decades before N reaches high enough that even today's typical desktop PC would start swapping.  Even in the year 2421, memory requirements only rise up to 256GB at N=30, and N won't go any higher than that (it's capped at 30).

Thanks! So even existing workstations (e.g. (http://www.pugetsystems.com/featured/64-core-256GB-Workstation-100)) can handle N=30.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 09:44:13 PM
You're a feisty one.

This is true.  I'm not going to dispute that.  :)


You're correct on the date, it was during the memcoin thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122256.0) which was apparently November of last year, so I guess only six months old.  Guess my memory slipped, but things move quickly these days.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read of your memcoin thread.  In a quick glance through, I'd say we're both in agreement YACoin's starting N was far too low, at least.


Quote from: WindMaster
If the scrypt-jane library starts having trouble at certain values of N (and it looks fine up through at least N=32768 that I've tested so far), I'd think we would only need to fix the problem in the library and release a new update to the client, rather than hard fork.

It works fine above that, I've used it beyond 32768 (see that thread).

Roger that.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 22, 2013, 11:17:53 PM
Now I have a question for the N value becomes even larger in a year, the hash speed drops to only 100 hashes/second even on a server.
Won't the client be able to validate the block chain because the hash speed is too slow? I don't know if the client will validate the whole block chain after it makes a fresh download.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 11:27:09 PM
Now I have a question for the N value becomes even larger in a year, the hash speed drops to only 100 hashes/second even on a server.
Won't the client be able to validate the block chain because the hash speed is too slow? I don't know if the client will validate the whole block chain after it makes a fresh download.

Validation of the previous portion of the block chain would be happening at the original N at the time that block was mined, not at the current value of N.  I think where we would get into trouble is when it takes as much or more time to validate a block than the target time between blocks (1 minute).  Somewhere in the next few years, I'm sure the debate of storing the entire blockchain on every user's computer will be discussed more and more among all the coins.

I'm benchmarking large values of N right now.  The highest I've benchmarked so far is N=262144 on a dual Xeon E5450 server (which is ~4 year old server technology), and have around 30.55 hashes/sec at that value of N, which would be hit on June 23, 2015.  Looks like mtrlt benchmarked his 6-core Phenom to the next N increment beyond that (which I'm benchmarking right now) and got around 12 hash/sec.

Based on the slope of the N increases over the long run, Moore's Law (not that it's a hard and fast rule) will begin overtaking the N increases and average hash rates per user will start rising again.  I don't necessarily subscribe to Moore's Law actually being valid at the immediate moment, looking at the actual processing power changes over the last 18 months.  However, out in the future, YACoin's Nfactor++ events become less and less frequent.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 22, 2013, 11:38:01 PM
As you can see from the table, it's going to be a couple decades before N reaches high enough that even today's typical desktop PC would start swapping.  Even in the year 2421, memory requirements only rise up to 256GB at N=30, and N won't go any higher than that (it's capped at 30).

Thanks! So even existing workstations (e.g. (http://www.pugetsystems.com/featured/64-core-256GB-Workstation-100)) can handle N=30.

Oops, I made a booboo in that post that you quoted.  I meant Nfactor is capped at 30, not N.  I fixed my original post.

But otherwise yes, it's possible to compute a hash at Nfactor=30 with a box with 256GB, although some swapping of the OS and any other running software would occur since 100% of the RAM would be needed to compute one hash.  Now, it would certainly take a while to compute a hash at Nfactor=30.  I'm guessing by the year 2421, that won't be an issue though, and we're probably not going to be using cryptocurrencies in their current form anywhere near that long either.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 22, 2013, 11:49:09 PM
Validation of the previous portion of the block chain would be happening at the original N at the time that block was mined, not at the current value of N.  I think where we would get into trouble is when it takes as much or more time to validate a block than the target time between blocks (1 minute).  Somewhere in the next few years, I'm sure the debate of storing the entire blockchain on every user's computer will be discussed more and more among all the coins.

I'm benchmarking large values of N right now.  The highest I've benchmarked so far is N=262144 on a dual Xeon E5450 server (which is ~4 year old server technology), and have around 30.55 hashes/sec at that value of N, which would be hit on June 23, 2015.  Looks like mtrlt benchmarked his 6-core Phenom to the next N increment beyond that (which I'm benchmarking right now) and got around 12 hash/sec.

Based on the slope of the N increases over the long run, Moore's Law (not that it's a hard and fast rule) will begin overtaking the N increases and average hash rates per user will start rising again.  I don't necessarily subscribe to Moore's Law actually being valid at the immediate moment, looking at the actual processing power changes over the last 18 months.  However, out in the future, YACoin's Nfactor++ events become less and less frequent.

I know about Moore's Law. But there're still risks in it. Because current technology is reaching its limitation, remember that Intel/AMD/Nvidia still stick to 32nm or so for many years, this doesn't obey the Moore's Law, they can't make a faster CPU instead they can only make multi-core CPUs.

Can you check this Nfactor: 21      4194304      512MB      1636426656      Tue - 09 Nov 2021 - 02:57:36 GMT

If we can be safe at this year, then we can have another 9 years to upgrade our equipments.

This is for the PoW model, here is another story for PoS.

Tell from the code, PoS uses SHA256, right? Thank god, it doesn't use SCRYPT-JANE this gives me relief, if PoW blocks generation becomes slow, the PoS block can make the network continue functioning.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 23, 2013, 12:06:00 AM
I know about Moore's Law. But there're still risks in it. Because current technology is reaching its limitation

Indeed, that's the reason I mentioned I don't necessarily subscribe to Moore's Law in the more recent timeframe, due to slow rate of process node improvements.  Cost reductions for those process nodes may still occur and make it possible to continue increasing core counts at a lower cost per core over time though.


remember that Intel/AMD/Nvidia still stick to 32nm or so for many years, this doesn't obey the Moore's Law, they can't make a faster CPU instead they can only make multi-core CPUs.

Ivy Bridge is built on a 22nm, so there's still some forward progress on process nodes occurring.  Just not as quickly lately.  Intel is aiming for 14nm, having started constructing the Fab 42 facility in Arizona, expected to come online for fabricating 14nm later this year (we'll see).  There's still some debate whether 14nm or 16nm will be the minimum size achievable before quantum tunnelling issues prevent any further scale reduction.  So, there will indeed be a stagnation in processes somewhere in the 14-16nm range.  At that point cost reductions of those processes and increased core counts are probably where things are going to head.


Can you check this Nfactor: 21      4194304      512MB      1636426656      Tue - 09 Nov 2021 - 02:57:36 GMT

If we can be safe at this year, then we can have another 9 years to upgrade our equipments.

Sure, I'll test N=4194304 next and report back in a bit.


This is for the PoW model, here is another story for PoS.

Tell from the code, PoS uses SHA256, right? Thank god, it doesn't use SCRYPT-JANE this gives me relief, if PoW blocks generation becomes slow, the PoS block can make the network continue functioning.

I actually have minimal familiarity with how the PoS side of things is going to work.  That part is still a mystery to me.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 23, 2013, 12:16:51 AM
Can you check this Nfactor: 21      4194304      512MB      1636426656      Tue - 09 Nov 2021 - 02:57:36 GMT

If we can be safe at this year, then we can have another 9 years to upgrade our equipments.

I'm measuring Nfactor=21 (N=4194304) to yield about 1.73 hashes/sec on a 4 year old dual Xeon E5450 server (combined performance in the ballpark of an i7-2600k).

EDIT - All my benchmarks out through Nfactor=21 are now posted in the table of Nfactor++ events:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620)

It's readily apparent at what point the memory usage becomes high enough to no longer fit in the on-die L1/L2 caches on these particular Xeon CPU's and starts falling to entirely off-chip memory.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mtrlt on May 23, 2013, 03:55:46 AM
Here are all my GPU benchmarking results, and also the speed ratio of GPUs and CPUs, for good measure.

GPU: HD6990 underclocked 830/1250 -> 738/1250, undervolted 1.12V -> 0.96V. assuming 320W power usage
CPU: WindMaster's 4 year old dual Xeon, assuming 80W power usage. In reality it's probably more, but newer processors achieve the same performance with less power usage.

Code:
N      GPUspeed    CPUspeed     GPU/CPU power-efficiency ratio
32     10.02 MH/s  358.8 kH/s   6.98
64     6.985 MH/s  279.2 kH/s   6.25
128    3.949 MH/s  194.0 kH/s   5.1
256    2.004 MH/s  119.2 kH/s   4.2
512    1.060 MH/s  66.96 kH/s   3.95
1024   544.2 kH/s  34.80 kH/s   3.9
2048   278.7 kH/s  18.01 kH/s   3.88
4096   98.5 kH/s   9.077 kH/s   2.72
8192+  0 H/s       4.595 kH/s   0

GPUs are getting comparatively slower bit by bit, until (as I've stated in an earlier post) at N=8192, GPU mining seems to break altogether.

EDIT: Replaced GPU/CPU ratio with a more useful power-efficiency ratio.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tacotime on May 23, 2013, 04:00:04 AM
^^ Have you tried playing with the lookup gap more? You should still hit faster GPU performance as by 8192 you will have moved off the CPU cache and are writing to RAM (maybe also L3).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 23, 2013, 04:15:05 AM
GPU: HD6990 underclocked from 830/1250 to 738/1250
CPU: WindMaster's 4 year old dual Xeon E5450

Amazon says that's a $1000 card vs a $400 CPU, and Google says it's ~400 Watts vs 80 Watts (just a quick search, these numbers may be off), if anyone wants to calculate corrected ratios.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mtrlt on May 23, 2013, 04:19:40 AM
GPU: HD6990 underclocked from 830/1250 to 738/1250
CPU: WindMaster's 4 year old dual Xeon E5450

Amazon says that's a $1000 card vs a $400 CPU, and Google says it's ~400 Watts vs 80 Watts (just a quick search, these numbers may be off), if anyone wants to calculate corrected ratios.

Good point! I'll fix my numbers.

^^ Have you tried playing with the lookup gap more? You should still hit faster GPU performance as by 8192 you will have moved off the CPU cache and are writing to RAM (maybe also L3).

I've played with it quite a bit. Also, nothing helped with 8192, it's all invalids.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on May 23, 2013, 08:05:10 AM
how many people are mining using GPU?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wire on May 23, 2013, 08:17:19 AM
guess many insiders do it at least the ones who are capable to write opencl code and they wont share their code with just everyone as long as they are making profit.

as soon as they dont make any profit anymore with mining they will sell the code, then when not making profit with selling anymore you will see it on github for free.

If i am wrong prove it and publish working code :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AGD on May 23, 2013, 11:16:34 AM
I am using the latest Windmaster version of yacoind on Debian and now my CPU (Intel Core i7 3930k 12 cores) shows only about half usage while mining. When I run minerd to mine instead of yacoind "top" shows full usage. Any idea?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 23, 2013, 01:34:39 PM
guess many insiders do it at least the ones who are capable to write opencl code and they wont share their code with just everyone as long as they are making profit.

as soon as they dont make any profit anymore with mining they will sell the code, then when not making profit with selling anymore you will see it on github for free.

If i am wrong prove it and publish working code :)

The data does not suggest this.

According to mtlrt, at current N = 256, a top end video card could get around 2.004 MH/s with a HD6990 and his kernel. That means for a mid-size GPU farm owner with 50 7950s/7970s or such may see around 75MH/s or so, or more (a very rough estimate, based on performance difference between 6990 and 7950/7970).

According to yacoind:
Code:
# ./yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 68606,
    "currentblocksize" : 2275,
    "currentblocktx" : 5,
    "difficulty" : 3.01596016,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "networkhashps" : 72345435,
    "pooledtx" : 5,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 7,
    "N" : 256,
    "powreward" : 20.80000000
}

Current network hash rate is estimated at 72.3MH (this is with the newest yacoin source). With just ONE mid-range GPU farm owner being able to generate more than the current YaCoin network at this point, this does not look like there are ANY "GPU insiders" mining. Or if there are, they are not hitting it with a decent sized GPU farm. However, this also raises issues of the possibility of a 51% attack if one or two ill-meaning farm owners get a hold of a GPU miner. Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

The other risk here is a possible inadvertent "difficulty attack" if this N=8192 issue is real and a GPU miner is released to all. At that point, difficulty would increase sharply, and once N=8192 is hit, drop off a cliff. I wonder if there would be enough hash power after that to get it back to a sane level without necessitating a hard fork like feathercoin has done (maybe WindMaster has more input on this). Also, whether POS minting would be enough during that time to validate new transactions on the network. Maybe others much more knowledgeable than I on these matters could comment.

I am hopeful that the 8192 issue is a more fundamental problem with GPU mining on this coin. Most serious GPU miners have 7950s or 7970s instead of 6990s, so this issue may be run into even earlier on one of those cards, as the memory amount and bandwidth on the 7950 at least is a good amount less than on the 6990. This community is ingenious, however, as the litecoin experience had shown. But if you had the guy that wrote the scrypt kernel for reaper having issues at 8192 after trying multiple lookup gap and TMTO hacks, then there is some real life for this coin I think.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 23, 2013, 01:39:29 PM
... this is the best thread in the entire alt subforum.

http://i.imgur.com/AJhPS.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tacotime on May 23, 2013, 02:14:12 PM
guess many insiders do it at least the ones who are capable to write opencl code and they wont share their code with just everyone as long as they are making profit.

as soon as they dont make any profit anymore with mining they will sell the code, then when not making profit with selling anymore you will see it on github for free.

If i am wrong prove it and publish working code :)

The data does not suggest this.

According to mtlrt, at current N = 256, a top end video card could get around 2.004 MH/s with a HD6990 and his kernel. That means for a mid-size GPU farm owner with 50 7950s/7970s or such may see around 75MH/s or so, or more (a very rough estimate, based on performance difference between 6990 and 7950/7970).

According to yacoind:
Code:
# ./yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 68606,
    "currentblocksize" : 2275,
    "currentblocktx" : 5,
    "difficulty" : 3.01596016,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "networkhashps" : 72345435,
    "pooledtx" : 5,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 7,
    "N" : 256,
    "powreward" : 20.80000000
}

Current network hash rate is estimated at 72.3MH (this is with the newest yacoin source). With just ONE mid-range GPU farm owner being able to generate more than the current YaCoin network at this point, this does not look like there are ANY "GPU insiders" mining. Or if there are, they are not hitting it with a decent sized GPU farm. However, this also raises issues of the possibility of a 51% attack if one or two ill-meaning farm owners get a hold of a GPU miner. Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

The other risk here is a possible inadvertent "difficulty attack" if this N=8192 issue is real and a GPU miner is released to all. At that point, difficulty would increase sharply, and once N=8192 is hit, drop off a cliff. I wonder if there would be enough hash power after that to get it back to a sane level without necessitating a hard fork like feathercoin has done (maybe WindMaster has more input on this). Also, whether POS minting would be enough during that time to validate new transactions on the network. Maybe others much more knowledgeable than I on these matters could comment.

I am hopeful that the 8192 issue is a more fundamental problem with GPU mining on this coin. Most serious GPU miners have 7950s or 7970s instead of 6990s, so this issue may be run into even earlier on one of those cards, as the memory amount and bandwidth on the 7950 at least is a good amount less than on the 6990. This community is ingenious, however, as the litecoin experience had shown. But if you had the guy that wrote the scrypt kernel for reaper having issues at 8192 after trying multiple lookup gap and TMTO hacks, then there is some real life for this coin I think.

It sounds more like a kernel level bug to me. Note that the author said it was throwing invalid hashes, not a very slow rate of valid hashes.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 23, 2013, 02:52:47 PM
It sounds more like a kernel level bug to me. Note that the author said it was throwing invalid hashes, not a very slow rate of valid hashes.

Good point, we shall see.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dragon2nd on May 23, 2013, 03:20:26 PM
... this is the best thread in the entire alt subforum.

http://i.imgur.com/AJhPS.jpg
can't agree more...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 23, 2013, 03:38:26 PM
It would be amazing one if I could understand anything the smart guys are talking about  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mtrlt on May 23, 2013, 04:45:34 PM
Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

This is indeed my plan.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 23, 2013, 04:50:49 PM
Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

This is indeed my plan.

A || B ?  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 23, 2013, 05:20:56 PM
Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

This is indeed my plan.

A || B ?  ;)

http://i.imgur.com/cGtOvur.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 23, 2013, 05:21:01 PM
Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

This is indeed my plan.

Thank you for your effort ! Really glad to see people coming together to help this coin out. I for one really like YAC and hope to see it walk :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 23, 2013, 05:31:14 PM
Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

This is indeed my plan.

A || B ?  ;)

To me both options are about the same, if everyone has a GPU miner for this coin, then it's about the same as no-one having a GPU miner. Right now we got one guy it appears, with a very decent GPU implementation.   If he abused that however, it could really damage the coin, at least if my calculations and the net hash rate estimates are correct.

I'd like to learn more about the issues at N=8K before I'd feel comfortable buying up any more YAC. The fact that the GPU/CPU ratio appears to be shrinking over time could be encouraging, but even at a 10:1 ratio, there would still be very little reason to CPU mine if GPU mining somehow got out.  And if it turned into a GPU coin, I'd think a much higher coin price would be necessary to justify any miners switching over their rigs to this coin for a fraction of the hash rate (after N goes past 1024). This is a very interesting coin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 23, 2013, 06:55:54 PM
To me both options are about the same, if everyone has a GPU miner for this coin, then it's about the same as no-one having a GPU miner. Right now we got one guy it appears, with a very decent GPU implementation.   If he abused that however, it could really damage the coin, at least if my calculations and the net hash rate estimates are correct.

These are mine calculations:
http://i.imgur.com/J3yQoS4.png (http://imgur.com/J3yQoS4)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dragon2nd on May 24, 2013, 05:54:24 AM
I tried to mine YAC on my IBM HS23 blade server (16 cores), and got:

{
    "blocks" : 68999,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 2.68750464,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : true,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 251006,
    "networkhashps" : 83718908,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 7,
    "N" : 256,
    "powreward" : 21.20000000
}

Looks like the network hashrate is somewhat equivalent to ~364 blade servers.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wire on May 24, 2013, 08:33:27 AM
well, atm network hashing power seems to go up again.

At least the pool i am mining for went up from 18MH/s yesterday to 53MH/s today

http://yac.ltcoin.net


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bulanula on May 24, 2013, 01:33:16 PM
No mining profitability calculator ?

Current block reward size ?

Current difficulty ?

How much expected hashrate with 2600K CPU ?

Is this profitable or not ATM ?



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: procrypto on May 24, 2013, 02:36:01 PM
Let's hope mtrlt either holds on to his GPU kernel like it appears he has to this point, or if released, it's released to all. Anything else risks the stability of the YaCoin network.

This is indeed my plan.

So, theoretically, what would happen to YAcoin if GPU mining was available to all right now, and suddenly came to a halt in August? What technical consequences would there be? How long would it take difficulty to readjust back to a level where CPU mining was viable?

edit: I should learn to read more.

The other risk here is a possible inadvertent "difficulty attack" if this N=8192 issue is real and a GPU miner is released to all. At that point, difficulty would increase sharply, and once N=8192 is hit, drop off a cliff. I wonder if there would be enough hash power after that to get it back to a sane level without necessitating a hard fork like feathercoin has done (maybe WindMaster has more input on this). Also, whether POS minting would be enough during that time to validate new transactions on the network. Maybe others much more knowledgeable than I on these matters could comment.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wesleyrbk on May 24, 2013, 03:05:32 PM
No mining profitability calculator ?

Current block reward size ?

Current difficulty ?

How much expected hashrate with 2600K CPU ?

Is this profitable or not ATM ?



Of course its profitable. What would you mine else with your cpu? This is the only coin at the moment that is cpu only.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bulanula on May 24, 2013, 03:46:49 PM
No mining profitability calculator ?

Current block reward size ?

Current difficulty ?

How much expected hashrate with 2600K CPU ?

Is this profitable or not ATM ?



Of course its profitable. What would you mine else with your cpu? This is the only coin at the moment that is cpu only.

So how much $$$ per day using a 2600K. Please show detailed calculations if possible. There seems to be no profit calculator at all for YAC.

I ran some numbers and it came to about $1 / day only if you got lucky solo mining. Maybe my numbers were wrong ?

IMHO at those levels it is not profitable unless you got free electricity.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 24, 2013, 04:29:31 PM
No mining profitability calculator ?

Current block reward size ?

Current difficulty ?

How much expected hashrate with 2600K CPU ?

Is this profitable or not ATM ?



Of course its profitable. What would you mine else with your cpu? This is the only coin at the moment that is cpu only.

So how much $$$ per day using a 2600K. Please show detailed calculations if possible. There seems to be no profit calculator at all for YAC.

I ran some numbers and it came to about $1 / day only if you got lucky solo mining. Maybe my numbers were wrong ?

IMHO at those levels it is not profitable unless you got free electricity.

I think you are missing the point here. IF you already running a GPU mining rig for LTC/NVC/PPC you making some profits +you can now mine YAC at the same time using cpu for extra $$ . Just like you could mine NMC and DVC with all sha256 coins you can now also add YAC with all GPU rigs.
 
So yes it is profitable, think of it as merged mining coin which adds extra % to ROI


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: R_Lem on May 24, 2013, 04:50:35 PM
well, atm network hashing power seems to go up again.

At least the pool i am mining for went up from 18MH/s yesterday to 53MH/s today

http://yac.ltcoin.net

Probably because dontmine.me closed all his pools, including YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bulanula on May 24, 2013, 04:55:43 PM
No mining profitability calculator ?

Current block reward size ?

Current difficulty ?

How much expected hashrate with 2600K CPU ?

Is this profitable or not ATM ?



Of course its profitable. What would you mine else with your cpu? This is the only coin at the moment that is cpu only.

So how much $$$ per day using a 2600K. Please show detailed calculations if possible. There seems to be no profit calculator at all for YAC.

I ran some numbers and it came to about $1 / day only if you got lucky solo mining. Maybe my numbers were wrong ?

IMHO at those levels it is not profitable unless you got free electricity.

I think you are missing the point here. IF you already running a GPU mining rig for LTC/NVC/PPC you making some profits +you can now mine YAC at the same time using cpu for extra $$ . Just like you could mine NMC and DVC with all sha256 coins you can now also add YAC with all GPU rigs.
 
So yes it is profitable, think of it as merged mining coin which adds extra % to ROI

Quoted for the lulz.

Merged mining draws 0 additional power so it is more money for no additional cost.

CPU mining draws a hell of a lot of power compared to CPU idling. 100W more does cost additional money.

$1 a day vs cost of powering 100W for 24 hours ( 0.24 kwh ) --- which is greater ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 24, 2013, 07:12:04 PM
No mining profitability calculator ?

Current block reward size ?

Current difficulty ?

How much expected hashrate with 2600K CPU ?

Is this profitable or not ATM ?



Of course its profitable. What would you mine else with your cpu? This is the only coin at the moment that is cpu only.

So how much $$$ per day using a 2600K. Please show detailed calculations if possible. There seems to be no profit calculator at all for YAC.

I ran some numbers and it came to about $1 / day only if you got lucky solo mining. Maybe my numbers were wrong ?

IMHO at those levels it is not profitable unless you got free electricity.

I think you are missing the point here. IF you already running a GPU mining rig for LTC/NVC/PPC you making some profits +you can now mine YAC at the same time using cpu for extra $$ . Just like you could mine NMC and DVC with all sha256 coins you can now also add YAC with all GPU rigs.
 
So yes it is profitable, think of it as merged mining coin which adds extra % to ROI

Quoted for the lulz.

Merged mining draws 0 additional power so it is more money for no additional cost.

CPU mining draws a hell of a lot of power compared to CPU idling. 100W more does cost additional money.

$1 a day vs cost of powering 100W for 24 hours ( 0.24 kwh ) --- which is greater ?

Well my power cost is 0.06kWh. Also they way I have been mining for 2 years is I mine for 12months before I sell off month 1 profits and so on.

This realizes the most amount of profits and generally pays for the whole year of mining costs in 2~3 months worth of sells offs. I only take out small amounts to cover line of credit payments at the time which is like $50 a month for each 10k loan, rest I keep in the operation as it costs me nada.

 Now since my HW is paid for I only pull out 30% in Fiat and 20% in Gold bullion a month for year prior and keep a spreadsheet to keep track of each month. I also now set up a 20% for trading and speculation.

 I am mining yac atm and not looking to sell at this price as my mining model is different and for me this makes sense from every angle :)

PS bulanula: Why scam people? This market has been more then rewarding for all with minimum investment and little patience, really dont get the point.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 24, 2013, 08:09:24 PM
$1 a day vs cost of powering 100W for 24 hours ( 0.24 kwh ) --- which is greater ?

Mining YAC with your hardware is not profitable, get over it. Most people I know are not mining anything but they have invested some money in certain cryptocoins. Get my drift?

I dunno im happy that I can now use my work pcs to mine something. Also once gpu mining for this coin is adopted and public price will shoot up :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bulanula on May 24, 2013, 10:29:02 PM
I am asking one simple thing :

How do I even calculate the profit I can make using YAC ?

How many coins per day ?

What is difficulty ? What is block reward ?

Nobody seems to know this.

Maybe someone with a 2600K CPU can chime in and tell us how many YAC he makes / day or something ???


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: CryptoMaster on May 24, 2013, 10:37:32 PM
I am asking one simple thing :

How do I even calculate the profit I can make using YAC ?

How many coins per day ?

What is difficulty ? What is block reward ?

Nobody seems to know this.

Maybe someone with a 2600K CPU can chime in and tell us how many YAC he makes / day or something ???

A bit of manual hand-crafting?

You can get all that information from the client with the getmininginfo command. Then it's a matter of doing the math.

If you can't be bothered with that, simply join a pool and the pool will simplify all this and tell you the estimated YAC/day.

But to be honest, I think you are deviating the thread. This is a thread about development and technical aspects of YAC, I think it would be better if you opened another thread to ask these questions.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sfinder on May 24, 2013, 10:43:44 PM
1)for intel I5 3570 , you can get around 8-10 coins per day .

2)My AMD fx -8300 is getting 12 coins per day and yac is extra product while i am minning LTC since YAC only use your cpu power no GPU. in this case , I got 2 LTC form my AMD 7950 and 12 YAC from my CPU at the same time every day.


by the way , i am doing pool mining and p2pool as backup


Some user statistics until May 14 when the N increased in the algorithm. Current hashrate decreased by 50% average.
Intel Core2 Duo L9400: 14 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Duo P8600: 52 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Duo T6600: ~50 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Duo T9400: 69 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Quad Q6600: 180-190 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 3.6GHz]
Intel Core i3 3220: 120-130 KH/s [-t 10]
Intel Core i5 760: 160 KH/s
Intel Core i5 760: 192 KH/s [3.8GHz]
Intel Core i5 2430M: is not working
Intel Core i5 2450M: 105 KH/s [AVX version, 2.9 GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 200 KH/s [AVX version, 3.6GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 230 KH/s [AVX version, 4.2GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 275 KH/s [4.5GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 270 KH/s [AVX version, ? GHz]
Intel Core i5 2600K: 300 KH/s [AVX version, 4.2 GHz]
Intel Core i5 2520M: is not working
Intel Core i5 3210M: 94-104 KH/s
Intel Core i5 3470: 200-210 KH/s [AVX version]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 170-180 KH/s [-t 3]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 207 KH/s [-t 3, 4.2 GHz]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 300 KH/s [AVX version, 4GHz, -t 10]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 315 KH/s [AVX version, 4.7GHz]
Intel Core i7 2670QM: 120+ KH/s [2.2GHz -t 6]
Intel Core i7 2600K: 320 KH/s
Intel Core i7 2600K: 320 KH/s [AVX version, 4.43 GHz]
Intel Core i7 2600K: 325 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 4.43 GHz]
Intel Core i7 3770K: 310-320 KH/s [AVX version, -t 10, 4.2 GHz]
Intel Core i7 3930K: 425 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t 8, 4.7 GHz]
Intel Xeon W3520: 200 KH/s
Intel Xeon 5345: 240 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t16]
2x Intel Xeon E5649: 482 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t20, 2.533 GHz, Windows Server 2008, HP ProLiant DL360 G7]
Intel Xeon E7520: 1165 KH/s [IBM x3850, SSSE3 version, -t 63, 1.87 GHz, Windows Server 2008]
AMD K8 3200+: 20 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
AMD Phenom II X4 940: 140-160 KH/s [SSSE3 version, Windows XP 64]
AMD Phenom II X4 955: 105 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
AMD Phenom II X6: 190 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 3.0 GHz]
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T: 250 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 3.6 GHz]
AMD A10 4655M: 60 KH/s [AVX version]
AMD FX-8350: 280 KH/s
AMD FX-8320 : 190 KH/s [-t 6]
AMD Opteron 6247: 590 KH/s [-t 31, 2.3 GHz]
AMD Opteron 6128: 900 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t 32, 2.5 GHz, Windows Server 2012]
How do I even calculate the profit I can make using YAC ?
How many coins per day ?
What is difficulty ? What is block reward ?

http://yacexplorer.tk/chain/Yacoin

As for profitability, there is no calculator I know of but you can easily find it out if you join some YAC pool and hash there for a while, there are usualy stats for YAC per day. Once
your local hashrate is close to hashrate shown by pool, check estimated YAC per day and then check exchange rate on Bter or Vircurex.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeling2011 on May 26, 2013, 08:00:46 AM
1)for intel I5 3570 , you can get around 8-10 coins per day .

2)My AMD fx -8300 is getting 12 coins per day and yac is extra product while i am minning LTC since YAC only use your cpu power no GPU. in this case , I got 2 LTC form my AMD 7950 and 12 YAC from my CPU at the same time every day.


by the way , i am doing pool mining and p2pool as backup


Some user statistics until May 14 when the N increased in the algorithm. Current hashrate decreased by 50% average.
Intel Core2 Duo L9400: 14 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Duo P8600: 52 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Duo T6600: ~50 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Duo T9400: 69 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
Intel Core2 Quad Q6600: 180-190 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 3.6GHz]
Intel Core i3 3220: 120-130 KH/s [-t 10]
Intel Core i5 760: 160 KH/s
Intel Core i5 760: 192 KH/s [3.8GHz]
Intel Core i5 2430M: is not working
Intel Core i5 2450M: 105 KH/s [AVX version, 2.9 GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 200 KH/s [AVX version, 3.6GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 230 KH/s [AVX version, 4.2GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 275 KH/s [4.5GHz]
Intel Core i5 2500K: 270 KH/s [AVX version, ? GHz]
Intel Core i5 2600K: 300 KH/s [AVX version, 4.2 GHz]
Intel Core i5 2520M: is not working
Intel Core i5 3210M: 94-104 KH/s
Intel Core i5 3470: 200-210 KH/s [AVX version]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 170-180 KH/s [-t 3]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 207 KH/s [-t 3, 4.2 GHz]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 300 KH/s [AVX version, 4GHz, -t 10]
Intel Core i5 3570k: 315 KH/s [AVX version, 4.7GHz]
Intel Core i7 2670QM: 120+ KH/s [2.2GHz -t 6]
Intel Core i7 2600K: 320 KH/s
Intel Core i7 2600K: 320 KH/s [AVX version, 4.43 GHz]
Intel Core i7 2600K: 325 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 4.43 GHz]
Intel Core i7 3770K: 310-320 KH/s [AVX version, -t 10, 4.2 GHz]
Intel Core i7 3930K: 425 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t 8, 4.7 GHz]
Intel Xeon W3520: 200 KH/s
Intel Xeon 5345: 240 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t16]
2x Intel Xeon E5649: 482 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t20, 2.533 GHz, Windows Server 2008, HP ProLiant DL360 G7]
Intel Xeon E7520: 1165 KH/s [IBM x3850, SSSE3 version, -t 63, 1.87 GHz, Windows Server 2008]
AMD K8 3200+: 20 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
AMD Phenom II X4 940: 140-160 KH/s [SSSE3 version, Windows XP 64]
AMD Phenom II X4 955: 105 KH/s [SSSE3 version]
AMD Phenom II X6: 190 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 3.0 GHz]
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T: 250 KH/s [SSSE3 version, 3.6 GHz]
AMD A10 4655M: 60 KH/s [AVX version]
AMD FX-8350: 280 KH/s
AMD FX-8320 : 190 KH/s [-t 6]
AMD Opteron 6247: 590 KH/s [-t 31, 2.3 GHz]
AMD Opteron 6128: 900 KH/s [SSSE3 version, -t 32, 2.5 GHz, Windows Server 2012]
How do I even calculate the profit I can make using YAC ?
How many coins per day ?
What is difficulty ? What is block reward ?

http://yacexplorer.tk/chain/Yacoin

As for profitability, there is no calculator I know of but you can easily find it out if you join some YAC pool and hash there for a while, there are usualy stats for YAC per day. Once
your local hashrate is close to hashrate shown by pool, check estimated YAC per day and then check exchange rate on Bter or Vircurex.


I's solo mining, 2 X  i7 PC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: jomay on May 26, 2013, 10:09:05 AM
Quoted for the lulz.

Merged mining draws 0 additional power so it is more money for no additional cost.

CPU mining draws a hell of a lot of power compared to CPU idling. 100W more does cost additional money.

$1 a day vs cost of powering 100W for 24 hours ( 0.24 kwh ) --- which is greater ?

Haha, allow me to quote you for the lulz as well: 100W * 24h = 0.24kWh? Where can I sign up for that electricity contract?! ;)

0.1kW * 24 hours = 2.4kWh. At 0.1-0.2$/kWh you end up paying between 0.24-0.48$/day.
IF you make 1$/day with 100W it would be profitable to mine yacoin ignoring depreciation etc.
I am paying close to 0.2$/kWh so I am only mining for fun when I do so.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Coin4me on May 26, 2013, 03:29:44 PM
hmm good future.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 26, 2013, 07:04:16 PM
Finally got my GPU hashing, but 4 times slower than mtrlt's.

7950 @ 207KH, (N = 256), Downgrade to 750MHZ Core Speed.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Dehumanizer on May 26, 2013, 09:39:38 PM
I have compiled Windmaster's client on my old notebook, but somehow I'm unable to download the whole blockchain flawlessly, it went fine at the beginning, but now I'm stuck at about 10000 blocks remaining and it just stops there. When I restart client, it downloads few hundreds of blocks and stops again.
Any suggestions? There were no errors during compilation... And it's 32bit ubuntu 12.04


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 26, 2013, 10:28:00 PM
Finally got my GPU hashing, but 4 times slower than mtrlt's.

7950 @ 207KH, (N = 256), Downgrade to 750MHZ Core Speed.

That approximately jives with what I benchmarked your code at (at least the code you posted earlier in the thread) after fixing the problems with it, if we take into account the different cards we're using (I tested on a 6950).  As a point of curiosity, how many hours did it take you up to the point you posted your code, and how many hours after that to figure out what was still wrong?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 26, 2013, 10:34:44 PM
I have compiled Windmaster's client on my old notebook, but somehow I'm unable to download the whole blockchain flawlessly, it went fine at the beginning, but now I'm stuck at about 10000 blocks remaining and it just stops there. When I restart client, it downloads few hundreds of blocks and stops again.
Any suggestions? There were no errors during compilation... And it's 32bit ubuntu 12.04

What does the output from the "getinfo" and "getpeerinfo" commands look like at the point it stops downloading?  How much CPU time is the yacoind process consuming at that point (ps -aux | grep yacoind)?  And what does the output from yacoind look like (start it with -printtoconsole so it doesn't become a daemon, and instead prints all it's messages directly)?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: crendore on May 26, 2013, 10:52:48 PM
Hello,

I'm trying to get YACoin QT Client compiled for OSX.  I feel like i'm getting pretty close, but i'm stuck on a bunch of ASM, and i'm not super awesome with ASM.

I think it's all coming from scrypt-x86_64.S
Code:
{standard input}:5:Alignment too large: 15. assumed.
{standard input}:14:32-bit absolute addressing is not supported for x86-64
{standard input}:14:cannot do signed 4 byte relocation
{standard input}:15:32-bit absolute addressing is not supported for x86-64
{standard input}:15:cannot do signed 4 byte relocation
{standard input}:89:suffix or operands invalid for `ja'
{standard input}:105:suffix or operands invalid for `jne'
{standard input}:108:Unknown pseudo-op: .type
{standard input}:108:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).
{standard input}:109:Unknown pseudo-op: .size
{standard input}:109:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).
{standard input}:113:Alignment too large: 15. assumed.
{standard input}:207:suffix or operands invalid for `ja'
{standard input}:223:suffix or operands invalid for `jne'
{standard input}:226:Unknown pseudo-op: .type
{standard input}:226:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).
{standard input}:227:Unknown pseudo-op: .size
{standard input}:227:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).

I am building with QT Creator, and using GCC (not CLANG).  I unravelled the macros in the ASM with pooler's perl tool. 

I assume someone has already figured this out because there is a NovaCoin QT for OSX and it uses the exact same ASM file.

Any help or advise would be appreciated!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 26, 2013, 11:05:49 PM
Finally got my GPU hashing, but 4 times slower than mtrlt's.

7950 @ 207KH, (N = 256), Downgrade to 750MHZ Core Speed.

That approximately jives with what I benchmarked your code at (at least the code you posted earlier in the thread) after fixing the problems with it, if we take into account the different cards we're using (I tested on a 6950).  As a point of curiosity, how many hours did it take you up to the point you posted your code, and how many hours after that to figure out what was still wrong?
I spend two weekends, if sum up about 48 hours.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 26, 2013, 11:11:22 PM
Thanks for compiling up an interim Win 64-bit binary.  I was going to start looking into why the scrypt-jane library won't compile cleanly for 32-bit Windows using the mingw32 compiler as reported earlier in the thread but haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm almost ready to push changes to the repository to update the icon and graphics, and have been working on scripting up an NSIS-based installer (similar to InstallShield, but NSIS is open-source) for the Windows client.

Yes, I also met the problem of the assembly code error. I just turned off some macro options for the SSE & AVX, to make it a plain generic scryp-jane impl.

In file scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h, comment out these parts:
Quote
   #if (defined(COMPILER_MSVC6PP_AND_LATER) || (defined(COMPILER_GCC) && (COMPILER_GCC >= 30000)))
      #define X86ASM_SSE
      #define X86ASM_SSE2
   #endif
   #if ((defined(COMPILER_MSVC) && (COMPILER_MSVC >= 1400)) || (defined(COMPILER_GCC) && (COMPILER_GCC >= 40102)))
      #define X86ASM_SSSE3
   #endif
   #if ((defined(COMPILER_GCC) && (COMPILER_GCC >= 40400)))
      #define X86ASM_AVX
   #endif

But if you want to make the client also has optimized mining capability, need to try to configure CPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS. (gcc intrinsics are always well-organized c code.)



Hello,

I'm trying to get YACoin QT Client compiled for OSX.  I feel like i'm getting pretty close, but i'm stuck on a bunch of ASM, and i'm not super awesome with ASM.

I think it's all coming from scrypt-x86_64.S
Code:
{standard input}:5:Alignment too large: 15. assumed.
{standard input}:14:32-bit absolute addressing is not supported for x86-64
{standard input}:14:cannot do signed 4 byte relocation
{standard input}:15:32-bit absolute addressing is not supported for x86-64
{standard input}:15:cannot do signed 4 byte relocation
{standard input}:89:suffix or operands invalid for `ja'
{standard input}:105:suffix or operands invalid for `jne'
{standard input}:108:Unknown pseudo-op: .type
{standard input}:108:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).
{standard input}:109:Unknown pseudo-op: .size
{standard input}:109:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).
{standard input}:113:Alignment too large: 15. assumed.
{standard input}:207:suffix or operands invalid for `ja'
{standard input}:223:suffix or operands invalid for `jne'
{standard input}:226:Unknown pseudo-op: .type
{standard input}:226:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).
{standard input}:227:Unknown pseudo-op: .size
{standard input}:227:Rest of line ignored. 1st junk character valued 115 (s).

I am building with QT Creator, and using GCC (not CLANG).  I unravelled the macros in the ASM with pooler's perl tool. 

I assume someone has already figured this out because there is a NovaCoin QT for OSX and it uses the exact same ASM file.

Any help or advise would be appreciated!




Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 27, 2013, 12:05:29 PM
I know it's not the best thread for it but it's the most watched and easy to follow YAC one so I'll post it here..

I just sent a message to bter about their unfair treatment of YAC as one of the rare problem-less altcoins created in last few weeks. It's staggering to see that coins with such a problems with delayed transactions like FTC or CNC, or coins with numerous blockchain problems and risky fast block creation and 1500% price drop like WDC are treated normally ,without huge trading fees and scaring introducing message yet YAC as most advanced coin with most stable price since it's introduction to exchange as well with 0 blockchain problems is treated on the way it is.

I hope more of you will join me and send them the message as the way they are treating YAC is scandalous and makes one to wonder what the hell are they about, and you don't want to wonder that while you are giving someone the trust of dealing with your property.

Again, sorry for posting here but I hope more people will see it in this thread.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on May 27, 2013, 12:34:40 PM
It seems that http://yacexplorer.tk/ is not updating anymore.
Is there any other YAC block explorer out there ?



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 27, 2013, 12:38:16 PM
I know it's not the best thread for it but it's the most watched and easy to follow YAC one so I'll post it here..

I just sent a message to bter about their unfair treatment of YAC as one of the rare problem-less altcoins created in last few weeks. It's staggering to see that coins with such a problems with delayed transactions like FTC or CNC, or coins with numerous blockchain problems and risky fast block creation and 1500% price drop like WDC are treated normally ,without huge trading fees and scaring introducing message yet YAC as most advanced coin with most stable price since it's introduction to exchange as well with 0 blockchain problems is treated on the way it is.

I hope more of you will join me and send them the message as the way they are treating YAC is scandalous and makes one to wonder what the hell are they about, and you don't want to wonder that while you are giving someone the trust of dealing with your property.

Again, sorry for posting here but I hope more people will see it in this thread.

No matter, we still have two other exchanges, vircurex & cryptsy, they're both awesome.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 27, 2013, 12:42:45 PM
Haven't checked vircurex but criptsy have 0 volume for yac.

But anyway, it's just not fair and I'm having a hard time to trust the exchange that does such stuff without the reasons.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: crendore on May 27, 2013, 12:46:30 PM
...

Thanks hanzac! that defintiely did the trick, i feel like i am a lot closer now, but stuck on one other small ASM related thing.
Code:
/scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h:226: warning: implicit declaration of function 'asm_gcc'
/scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h:227: error: expected ';' before 'a1'

EDIT: so then i realized that X86_64ASM was no longer being defined, so then asm_gcc wasn't getting initialized properly.  So instead i only commented out part of the block you suggested, and left the definition for X86_64ASM
Code:
#if defined(CPU_X86_64) && defined(COMPILER_GCC)
    #define X86_64ASM
// #define X86_64ASM_SSE2
// #if (COMPILER_GCC >= 40102)
// #define X86_64ASM_SSSE3
// #endif
// #if (COMPILER_GCC >= 40400)
// #define X86_64ASM_AVX
// #endif
#endif

And it built with no errors, but a whole bunch of warnings, do these warnings matter??
Code:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:12: In file included from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:12,
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2: from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2,
src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12: from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_romix_nop':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8: warning: unused parameter 'blocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8: warning: unused parameter 'nblocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_romix_convert_endian':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:13: warning: unused parameter 'blocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:13: warning: unused parameter 'nblocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2: In file included from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2,
src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12: from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_getROMix':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:56: warning: unused variable 'cpuflags'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_test_mix':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:109: warning: unused variable 'cpuflags'
src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:13: In file included from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:13:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:-1: At top level:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:9: warning: missing initializer
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:9: warning: (near initialization for 'post_settings[2].salt')
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8: warning: 'scrypt_romix_nop' defined but not used

Thanks!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 27, 2013, 01:02:16 PM
...

Thanks hanzac! that defintiely did the trick, i feel like i am a lot closer now, but stuck on one other small ASM related thing.
Code:
/scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h:226: warning: implicit declaration of function 'asm_gcc'
/scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h:227: error: expected ';' before 'a1'

EDIT: so then i realized that X86_64ASM was no longer being defined, so then asm_gcc wasn't getting initialized properly.  So instead i only commented out part of the block you suggested, and left the definition for X86_64ASM
Code:
#if defined(CPU_X86_64) && defined(COMPILER_GCC)
    #define X86_64ASM
// #define X86_64ASM_SSE2
// #if (COMPILER_GCC >= 40102)
// #define X86_64ASM_SSSE3
// #endif
// #if (COMPILER_GCC >= 40400)
// #define X86_64ASM_AVX
// #endif
#endif

And it built with no errors, but a whole bunch of warnings, do these warnings matter??
Code:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:12: In file included from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:12,
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2: from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2,
src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12: from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_romix_nop':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8: warning: unused parameter 'blocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8: warning: unused parameter 'nblocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_romix_convert_endian':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:13: warning: unused parameter 'blocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:13: warning: unused parameter 'nblocks'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2: In file included from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix.h:2,
src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12: from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:12:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_getROMix':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:56: warning: unused variable 'cpuflags'
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:-1: In function 'scrypt_test_mix':
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-chacha.h:109: warning: unused variable 'cpuflags'
src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:13: In file included from ../altcoins/yacoin/src/scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c:13:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:-1: At top level:
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:9: warning: missing initializer
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h:9: warning: (near initialization for 'post_settings[2].salt')
src/scrypt-jane/code/scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h:8: warning: 'scrypt_romix_nop' defined but not used

Thanks!

No, they do not matter. You only turn off the scrypt-jane SSE optimization so some variables are not used. When I have time, I'll try to figure out how to enable compilation with SSE intrinsics by using define CPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS. This will avoid use the ASM directly.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Kohloe on May 27, 2013, 04:48:40 PM
Did I miss the link to the windows binaries?

Please make a new Release for Windows  :'(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 28, 2013, 03:28:04 AM
So on the topic of YaCoin development, I wanted to put forth some ideas on how to increase the coin’s adoption.

I think we can all agree that currently, this is a coin developed by technical folks, for technical folks. You could say the same thing is true for most all altcoins, and you’d be right. Their technical complexity (both conceptually and from a day-to-day operational standpoint of the current toolset and utilities) is a big factor keeping them from starting to enter wider adoption. Bitcoin itself is just now starting to get over this with sites like Coinbase and Bitpay.

However, with YaCoin, we have a coin where money can be made with no special hardware required beyond a general purpose CPU. Admittedly, the money is not much at all today, but when I think of the number of folks that may be open to running this on their work computers, for instance to make some coins to play around with, it’s extremely compelling because that both increases knowledge and interest in the coin (and digital currencies in general), along with strengthening the network by leaps and bounds (which lends back into the former in a virtuous and synergistic cycle).

However, I believe that the technical hurdles with the toolset are still insurmountable for most folks, and are ones that YaCoin inherited from Bitcoin, etc. Things like:

•   Downloading the client as a zip file, with a bunch of DLLs and no installer. Huh?
•   The wallet.dat file is stored in a separate location from the program itself (makes sense, since it’s tied to the user, but it can be a pain to find if you don’t know that).
•   Want to mine for coins? You have to resort to either creating and editing some (seemingly) random .conf file you have to create in some (seemingly) random directory, or downloading and figuring out command-line switches for an external mining program like minerd or cgminer
•   So I finally do that, and then get some coins… what now?


For us, none of these are show stoppers, but for 99% of computer users…you’d lose them at the first one. I am definitely not proposing making this thing appealing to 99% of computer users, since most of them at this point wouldn't understand the concept of a digital currency anyhow. I’d rather be interesting in focusing on enhancing the client design to open this up to the top 10% of computer users, who have the skills and possible inclination, but don’t necessarily want to read a book on these coins to figure them out. As a bonus, you’d greatly simplify things for the existing yacoin community (if I can blaze through an installer to set up yacoin on a random box, awesome). Focusing on Windows at least at first, for obvious reasons, it would be something like the following:

•   Start by creating an installer for the yacoin client. And/or, have a “portable” version that you can throw on a USB stick, that throws the wallet, blockchain, etc right there in a subdirectory under the .exe
•   Enhance the yacoin client to come packaged with minerd. Add a tab to the GUI to start and stop mining (and allow the user to auto-start the client and therefore mining at machine startup). Starting mining would find a suitable p2pool, and launch minerd, pointing at that. Coins would then naturally end up in the user’s wallet.
•   Possibly include a ticker in the client showing announcements (such as “Complexity increase in 2 days. Your hashrate will be cut in half.” and the current yacoin price, for instance)
•   Tutorials around this client, along with explaining about selling/trading the coins on an exchange.
•   Future ideas of web-wallets for yacoin, such as a coinbase clone….

At this point, you have a coin with more user-friendliness that any altcoin, which I believe matches its technical profile as a CPU-mineable coin. And the fact that you introduce new folks into the digital currency space by means of yacoin would be an amazing feat.

Comments, suggestions? I am a developer and could assist with some of these tasks, as well as contributing some YAC as the start of a bounty pool (my time is limited however as I run a rapidly growing business).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 28, 2013, 04:20:40 AM
Yep, all good points for any crypto, not only YAC.

It's very tech thing for average PC user.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 28, 2013, 04:34:55 AM
I think current client is too complex, it will be better to separate the GUI client from the server part. I'm inclining to make a GUI client or Web client talk to the server via RPC-JSON api. This can bring more people to write more advanced GUI client.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 28, 2013, 05:07:25 AM
So on the topic of YaCoin development, I wanted to put forth some ideas on how to increase the coin’s adoption.

I think we can all agree that currently, this is a coin developed by technical folks, for technical folks. You could say the same thing is true for most all altcoins, and you’d be right. Their technical complexity (both conceptually and from a day-to-day operational standpoint of the current toolset and utilities) is a big factor keeping them from starting to enter wider adoption. Bitcoin itself is just now starting to get over this with sites like Coinbase and Bitpay.

However, with YaCoin, we have a coin where money can be made with no special hardware required beyond a general purpose CPU. Admittedly, the money is not much at all today, but when I think of the number of folks that may be open to running this on their work computers, for instance to make some coins to play around with, it’s extremely compelling because that both increases knowledge and interest in the coin (and digital currencies in general), along with strengthening the network by leaps and bounds (which lends back into the former in a virtuous and synergistic cycle).

However, I believe that the technical hurdles with the toolset are still insurmountable for most folks, and are ones that YaCoin inherited from Bitcoin, etc. Things like:

•   Downloading the client as a zip file, with a bunch of DLLs and no installer. Huh?
•   The wallet.dat file is stored in a separate location from the program itself (makes sense, since it’s tied to the user, but it can be a pain to find if you don’t know that).
•   Want to mine for coins? You have to resort to either creating and editing some (seemingly) random .conf file you have to create in some (seemingly) random directory, or downloading and figuring out command-line switches for an external mining program like minerd or cgminer
•   So I finally do that, and then get some coins… what now?


For us, none of these are show stoppers, but for 99% of computer users…you’d lose them at the first one. I am definitely not proposing making this thing appealing to 99% of computer users, since most of them at this point wouldn't understand the concept of a digital currency anyhow. I’d rather be interesting in focusing on enhancing the client design to open this up to the top 10% of computer users, who have the skills and possible inclination, but don’t necessarily want to read a book on these coins to figure them out. As a bonus, you’d greatly simplify things for the existing yacoin community (if I can blaze through an installer to set up yacoin on a random box, awesome). Focusing on Windows at least at first, for obvious reasons, it would be something like the following:

•   Start by creating an installer for the yacoin client. And/or, have a “portable” version that you can throw on a USB stick, that throws the wallet, blockchain, etc right there in a subdirectory under the .exe
•   Enhance the yacoin client to come packaged with minerd. Add a tab to the GUI to start and stop mining (and allow the user to auto-start the client and therefore mining at machine startup). Starting mining would find a suitable p2pool, and launch minerd, pointing at that. Coins would then naturally end up in the user’s wallet.
•   Possibly include a ticker in the client showing announcements (such as “Complexity increase in 2 days. Your hashrate will be cut in half.” and the current yacoin price, for instance)
•   Tutorials around this client, along with explaining about selling/trading the coins on an exchange.
•   Future ideas of web-wallets for yacoin, such as a coinbase clone….

At this point, you have a coin with more user-friendliness that any altcoin, which I believe matches its technical profile as a CPU-mineable coin. And the fact that you introduce new folks into the digital currency space by means of yacoin would be an amazing feat.

Comments, suggestions? I am a developer and could assist with some of these tasks, as well as contributing some YAC as the start of a bounty pool (my time is limited however as I run a rapidly growing business).


Spot on +1


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Ranplan on May 28, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
Some ideas more to develop the coin could an webapp (like bitminter java) or even a web based app, people get connected luch the app and get coin. Do not ask me to realize those idea please I'was already fighting to understand how to set "Minerd"  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 28, 2013, 03:18:00 PM
I think current client is too complex, it will be better to separate the GUI client from the server part. I'm inclining to make a GUI client or Web client talk to the server via RPC-JSON api. This can bring more people to write more advanced GUI client.

Yes, excellent idea. Having the server either be an executable that's fired off as a Windows service, or just started as a normal program. Or, you could take it out to a library-type interface, where it's initialized as part of another program...and bindings for other languages such as Python, Perl, PHP, etc could be wrapped around that with SWIG, for instance.

Having to write a bunch of GUI code in C/C++ is just a major headache. Taking this thing out to a light JSON RPC-driven interoperability layer where the GUI could be web based, or based on another (more high level language) such as Python, .NET, etc. would be a huge boon.

And yes, the entire -qt interface is a bit clunky period.

As a first step, just having an installer that installed shortcuts to launch:
1. the QT interface
2. a bat file that queried yacoind for the primary wallet address on startup, and then launched minerd with the top 3 p2pools, specifying that address to receive payment for both
3. a link to a howto document on mining, selling YaCoin on the exchanges, etc
(4. allowed that bat file to be autolaunched at startup (e.g. added to the Startup group under windows)

Would be a big step.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 28, 2013, 03:29:33 PM
We should link somewhere any scripts to check transactions and send files (to sell automatically digital stuff) and tips on how to use them with YaCoin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tamehuang on May 28, 2013, 05:24:44 PM
good job. i have download it instead of the official one


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 28, 2013, 08:24:09 PM
As a first step, just having an installer that installed shortcuts to launch:
1. the QT interface
2. a bat file that queried yacoind for the primary wallet address on startup, and then launched minerd with the top 3 p2pools, specifying that address to receive payment for both
3. a link to a howto document on mining, selling YaCoin on the exchanges, etc
(4. allowed that bat file to be autolaunched at startup (e.g. added to the Startup group under windows)

A few days ago I started scripting up a Windows installer using NSIS (an open source Windows installer builder created by Nullsoft, sorta like a "lite" variation of the InstallShield tools).  It's just for installing the QT client itself though and not most of the other items in the above list, which would itself be a pretty big step over the current state of things.

Before we can build a Windows installer, there's a few decisions to be made about how to deal with the Windows build issues.  Hanzac has published info in this thread for what to tweak to build the Windows version of the QT client w/o SSE enabled, as SSE breaks compilation of the scrypt-jane library.  Someone PM'd me a tip last week that changes were pushed to the scrypt-jane GitHub repository that fix Windows compilation issues, but I have not yet had a chance to pull them and verify whether that makes the issue go away.  Possible build strategy to keep the number of large'ish EXE's down in the installer could be to include a 32-bit EXE w/o SSE, and a 64-bit EXE w/ SSE enabled (assuming the new version of the scrypt-jane library unbroke that on Windows), with the installer making the choice of which EXE to install based on CPU type and Windows version (or allowing the user to force one version or other through some "Advanced" settings section in the installer).

On #2, anyone have further thoughts on whether a third-party miner (cpuminer) should indeed be included in the main YACoin installer, or if that would be better divided into a 2nd, different installer?  Same for selecting which p2pools to sort of "endorse" as part of the installer, when we know that p2pools are going to be a fast-moving target and any that are selected might randomly disappear or misbehave in the future, causing basically broken shortcuts unless someone is constantly checking for new versions of the client installer.

If anyone wants to do development work that will feed back to my unofficial version of the YACoin client, create a GitHub account (if you don't already have one), go to the URL for my version of the client, and use the Fork button to make a copy of my repository into your own GitHub account.  At that point you can do any development work or testing in your own repository.  Once you've implemented feature(s) or bug fixes you feel are ready for inclusion in the YACoin client, you can submit a pull request back to my repository and I'll look over the changes for sanity and safety before merging them into my version of the client (or I'll get in touch with you if I have questions).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on May 28, 2013, 08:41:18 PM
Before we can build a Windows installer, there's a few decisions to be made about how to deal with the Windows build issues.  Hanzac has published info in this thread for what to tweak to build the Windows version of the QT client w/o SSE enabled, as SSE breaks compilation of the scrypt-jane library.  Someone PM'd me a tip last week that changes were pushed to the scrypt-jane GitHub repository that fix Windows compilation issues, but I have not yet had a chance to pull them and verify whether that makes the issue go away. 

I have tested the latest scrypt-jane library and had no problems with SSE, although I don't recall having issues with SSE before ...
Maybe I can try to fork you and include the latest scrypt-jane library to test. The windows building instructions could also be improved, they come from NVC source and are pretty useless right now (I mean the ones under the /doc folder).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on May 28, 2013, 09:25:54 PM
Has anyone made a yacoind.exe for windows yet?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 28, 2013, 09:39:55 PM
Has anyone made a yacoind.exe for windows yet?

Stupid question, related to this, have updated binaries off of WindMaster's build been released, or if I want to get an updated binary for Windows, I would have to compile it myself?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: forsetifox on May 28, 2013, 09:52:07 PM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

This is the newest one I know of.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on May 28, 2013, 10:26:05 PM
for those interesting with yac, please come here to mine http://yac.ltcoin.net


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on May 28, 2013, 10:27:27 PM
I would just like to ask about Proof of Stake minting and the issue with locked wallets.
So I have been told that if you locked your wallet you cant receive proof of stale minting just as you can't receive proof of share minting while it is locked.
If this is true can someone tell me how to unlock my wallet and can someone work on fixing this issue please  :'(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 29, 2013, 12:02:58 AM
send your coins to some exchange, reinstall everything, send coins back home. Guess that should work.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 29, 2013, 12:10:46 AM
I would just like to ask about Proof of Stake minting and the issue with locked wallets.
So I have been told that if you locked your wallet you cant receive proof of stale minting just as you can't receive proof of share minting while it is locked.
If this is true can someone tell me how to unlock my wallet and can someone work on fixing this issue please  :'(

POS needs 30 days coins idle in your unlock wallet if I recall correctly. It's the same as NVC & PPC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 29, 2013, 12:16:37 AM
I would just like to ask about Proof of Stake minting and the issue with locked wallets.
So I have been told that if you locked your wallet you cant receive proof of stale minting just as you can't receive proof of share minting while it is locked.
If this is true can someone tell me how to unlock my wallet and can someone work on fixing this issue please  :'(

POS needs 30 days coins idle in your unlock wallet if I recall correctly. It's the same as NVC & PPC.

Also see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0

Add this to the list of tasks to simplify in yacoin. :) Looks like it needs yacoind.exe under windows.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 29, 2013, 12:33:53 AM
On #2, anyone have further thoughts on whether a third-party miner (cpuminer) should indeed be included in the main YACoin installer, or if that would be better divided into a 2nd, different installer?  Same for selecting which p2pools to sort of "endorse" as part of the installer, when we know that p2pools are going to be a fast-moving target and any that are selected might randomly disappear or misbehave in the future, causing basically broken shortcuts unless someone is constantly checking for new versions of the client installer.

On the first point, I'd rather it all be in a single installer. I think we should definitely aim to keep the whole process as simple as possible (i.e. one installer to run over two).

As far as p2pools, I proposed that because with pushpools, there is the whole setup routine (register, set up worker, etc) that we avoid with p2pool. However, as you said, they can be a fast moving target. We have a few options here:

a. Hardcode it with the 3 or 4 most popular p2pools (via multiple -o options...so even if one or two go down, we're still good)
b. the script that launches the miner makes a web service call to a central service (on google appengine for example) that will feed back a "current" list of p2pool hostnames. From this, the command line arguments are constructed. Making such a web service would be trivial. The script could be created that a default, hardcoded list would be used if this webservice was down.
c. Achieve a similar effect to b above by using round-robin DNS (CNAME entries)...I don't know enough about p2pool to know if this will work...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: azwccc on May 29, 2013, 02:28:08 AM
Is there any upgrade in QT?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 29, 2013, 03:14:31 AM
Also see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0

Add this to the list of tasks to simplify in yacoin. :) Looks like it needs yacoind.exe under windows.

I don't think yacoind is needed, yacoin-qt can also run in server mode. You can check debug.log, and you'll find some log like POS CPUMiner started


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on May 29, 2013, 03:27:49 AM
How do I get network hash rate with yacoin-qt? That's the main reason I want it.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 29, 2013, 05:16:42 AM
Everyone is welcomed to mine on my p2p YAC pool

http://31.220.1.53:8335

In order to mine
Code:
minerd.exe -a scrypt-jane -o  http://31.220.1.53:8335 -u Y1dncJeBobRiYiBop6LWsUXq9fm8HbQfsp  

Replace Y1dncJeBobRiYiBop6LWsUXq9fm8HbQfsp with your yac wallet address and mine away.

Pool pays out each time block is found.

No registration needed.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on May 29, 2013, 08:28:52 AM
I'm not that knowledgable on bitcoin. however I read this on a different thread:

"51% is real, back in 2011 it was more common on the alts. DoubleC was hit a couple a times on his exchange. Geistgeld 1 and Fairbrix were both 51% hit, so was the original Solidcoin and I belive I0coin several times"

I'm not sure if these 51% attacks were deadly or not. but Is there a worry about a 51% attack on yacoin?

this data from yacoind about 2000 blocks ago, or 30 hours ago:

 "blocks" : 72225, "networkhashps" : 103314719,
 "blocks" : 72419, "networkhashps" : 267124100,
 "blocks" : 72598,  "networkhashps" : 126571030,

Assuming not some error.

someone added 160k kh/s to the network to make up over 60% of the total hashes per second.
shows that someone has a OpenCl implementation of scrypt-jane and a GPU farm at their disposal.

Based on calculations in my head with the current YAC price at 0.0003 it seems more profitable than bitcoin (at least until difficulty adjusted - but maybe still then). why take it offline?

Maybe there could be the Amazon EC2 argument. this is possible but the person had to have an unrestricted account. because if you put up 20 (the limit) of the 88 ECU instances in all three locations. you get 60 instances of 250 kh/sec at n=256, which is only 15k kh/s.

the next closest instance rated at 26 ECU's would give around 60 kh/s. this type of instance I believe is unrestricted. but you would need 3,000 of these to reach 160k kh/s




Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 29, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
We are hitting n=512 in a couple hours, by the way.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 29, 2013, 08:46:52 AM
I'm not that knowledgable on bitcoin. however I read this on a different thread:

"51% is real, back in 2011 it was more common on the alts. DoubleC was hit a couple a times on his exchange. Geistgeld 1 and Fairbrix were both 51% hit, so was the original Solidcoin and I belive I0coin several times"

I'm not sure if these 51% attacks were deadly or not. but Is there a worry about a 51% attack on yacoin?

this data from yacoind about 2000 blocks ago, or 30 hours ago:

 "blocks" : 72225, "networkhashps" : 103314719,
 "blocks" : 72419, "networkhashps" : 267124100,
 "blocks" : 72598,  "networkhashps" : 126571030,

Assuming not some error.

someone added 160k kh/s to the network to make up over 60% of the total hashes per second.
shows that someone has a OpenCl implementation of scrypt-jane and a GPU farm at their disposal.

Based on calculations in my head with the current YAC price at 0.0003 it seems more profitable than bitcoin (at least until difficulty adjusted - but maybe still then). why take it offline?

Maybe there could be the Amazon EC2 argument. this is possible but the person had to have an unrestricted account. because if you put up 20 (the limit) of the 88 ECU instances in all three locations. you get 60 instances of 250 kh/sec at n=256, which is only 15k kh/s.

the next closest instance rated at 26 ECU's would give around 60 kh/s. this type of instance I believe is unrestricted. but you would need 3,000 of these to reach 160k kh/s



'

Interesting, where do you see this 160Mhash ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 29, 2013, 08:49:34 AM
He refers to the second row of his sample.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 29, 2013, 08:55:37 AM
He refers to the second row of his sample.

lol i need to get some sleep its 1:55am here "/

http://31.220.1.53:8335  P2P YAC POOL 2% fee




Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on May 29, 2013, 08:58:34 AM
How could anyone have an OpenCL implementation of scypt-jane?

I didn't think that was possible, not even theoretically.

-Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 29, 2013, 09:09:37 AM
How could anyone have an OpenCL implementation of scypt-jane?

I didn't think that was possible, not even theoretically.

-Michael


you should go ahead and read a few pages back in this thread. This has been covered multiple times already.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 29, 2013, 09:41:55 AM
this data from yacoind about 2000 blocks ago, or 30 hours ago:

 "blocks" : 72225, "networkhashps" : 103314719,
 "blocks" : 72419, "networkhashps" : 267124100,
 "blocks" : 72598,  "networkhashps" : 126571030,

Assuming not some error.

someone added 160k kh/s to the network to make up over 60% of the total hashes per second.
shows that someone has a OpenCl implementation of scrypt-jane and a GPU farm at their disposal.

The code I added to yacoind to produce the "networkhashps" info is only an estimate, and is based on spacing between solved blocks over a fairly short period of time.  There isn't a way to directly measure hash rate, the best we can do is estimate it.  Variability is capable of producing the swing you observed above.  From my own data collection process that keeps track of average block spacing, at this time my opinion is that there wasn't a sustained rise in (estimated) hash rate that would be outside the realm of variability.

Now, if the estimated hash rate jumped and then stayed at that level, that would be more interesting and much less likely to be just a variability-induced fluctuation in the way my hash rate estimation code works.

I copied a good portion of the hash rate estimation code from Litecoin.  Our (target) block rate is 2.5x faster than Litecoin.  Perhaps I should tweak the code to average the hash rate estimate across 2.5x more blocks than Litecoin does to try to smooth out some of these swings so we're at least averaging over the same amount of time.  Even Litecoin's hash rate estimate has some pretty wild swings due to variability.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 29, 2013, 10:29:42 AM
Hashrate for me looks to be around 125MH

$ ./yacoind getnetworkhashps
125940739
(then about a minute later)
$ ./yacoind getnetworkhashps
128083276
(another minute later)
$ ./yacoind getnetworkhashps
127557858


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 29, 2013, 10:34:57 AM
Guys, have you seen bitminter.com (https://bitminter.com/)? Very neat pool. They do something similar to what we were talking about with bitcoin. Java web start client...relative no-brainer to get started (certainly a LOT better than setting up cgminer). I use cgminer/anubis with my farm, but ran their client on my workstation to try it out. It looks like they have about 8000 miners on their systems, around 2/3 of which are using the bitminter client. Funny thing is, their client does detect the CPU and offer it as a mining device, although I don't think that's used much anymore.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9719672/bitminter.jpg

Another option is to create a pushpool client that works like this. A mmcfe fork could be created that offers services like statistics, registration via an API, to allow the user to just download the client and register from it, as well as viewing their statistics. There could be a master pool directory web service that could be used to allow switching between pools possibly. If something like OpenID or Google Accounts OAuth was used, registration could just be off of their google account, for instance, further simplifying things (this is how bitminter works for the initial signin).

p2pool is probably the most "resilent" way to do it, but my thought is that p2pool has a major deficiency currently with their statistics feedback. In short, it really sucks (IMHO). Any user of a tool like this wants to see, at an absolute minimum:
* their current hashrate
* estimated coins per day
* graph of coin yield over the past week or so
* graph of hash rate over the past week or so

This info doesn't necessarily need to be in the tool itself, but has to be available. With bitminter, it's on their site when you're logged in.

If anything, this is food for thought to me at least.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on May 29, 2013, 10:56:51 AM
We are hitting n=512 in a couple hours, by the way.

When is that going to be?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Urakhga on May 29, 2013, 11:10:20 AM
We are hitting n=512 in a couple hours, by the way.

When is that going to be?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on May 29, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
2 minutes until N changes :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: CryptoMaster on May 29, 2013, 11:18:45 AM
Here it is  :D

Quote
[2013-05-29 13:15:40] accepted: 1635/1761 (92.84%), 63.78 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:15:46] accepted: 1636/1762 (92.85%), 64.06 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:15:59] accepted: 1637/1763 (92.85%), 63.61 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:17:14] accepted: 1638/1764 (92.86%), 37.03 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:17:50] accepted: 1639/1765 (92.86%), 37.92 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:18:00] accepted: 1640/1766 (92.87%), 37.18 khash/s (yay!!!)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JimmyFL on May 29, 2013, 11:27:44 AM
Code:
[2013-05-29 13:12:59] accepted: 3162/3866 (81.79%), 121.61 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:12:59] accepted: 3163/3867 (81.79%), 121.61 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:12:59] accepted: 3164/3868 (81.80%), 121.71 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:13:23] accepted: 3165/3869 (81.80%), 121.78 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:13:38] accepted: 3166/3870 (81.81%), 121.78 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:13:53] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-29 13:14:45] accepted: 3166/3871 (81.79%), 112.09 khash/s (booooo)
[2013-05-29 13:15:04] accepted: 3166/3872 (81.77%), 108.74 khash/s (booooo)
[2013-05-29 13:15:11] accepted: 3166/3873 (81.75%), 105.46 khash/s (booooo)
[2013-05-29 13:16:09] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-29 13:16:13] accepted: 3166/3874 (81.72%), 68.19 khash/s (booooo)
[2013-05-29 13:18:19] accepted: 3167/3875 (81.73%), 68.12 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:18:34] accepted: 3168/3876 (81.73%), 68.17 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:18:49] accepted: 3169/3877 (81.74%), 68.20 khash/s (yay!!!)
[2013-05-29 13:19:27] LONGPOLL detected new block
[2013-05-29 13:19:39] accepted: 3170/3878 (81.74%), 68.65 khash/s (yay!!!)
:'(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on May 29, 2013, 12:50:15 PM
How are you getting these relatively high hash rates?

On my W530 laptop (which is no slouch, it has a core i7 w/32 gb) I'm way down around 10 kh/s, which I don't understand.

What are you guys mining with?

-Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on May 29, 2013, 01:25:17 PM
How are you getting these relatively high hash rates?

On my W530 laptop (which is no slouch, it has a core i7 w/32 gb) I'm way down around 10 kh/s, which I don't understand.

What are you guys mining with?

-Michael


Are you using this ? If not do it ! Use the AVX version.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201027.0


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on May 29, 2013, 07:15:47 PM
Umm so I have a question.
Why is the nfactor going up so quickly? And I mean if the point is to make GPU mining impossible then sure do it, but what I don't get is how the reward has only BARELY gone up since the difficulty changed from 9 to (currently) 1.82. I mean hell I would be happy if we were mining transaction fees cause really PPC's idea of destroying inflation via removing transaction fees only worked because it had a huge supply of coins being created with every block where as YAC has like 20. I mean is there like a logarithmic decline between the initial 100 we started mining and the 22.6 we are grinding for now? Furthermore was the difficulty/reward changed at all when it was copied from novacoin? I mean the effects of the nfactor don't seem to be taken into account. I know YAC is trying to do the fast confirmation thing but it really doesnt suit the coin, given that the speed of everyone mining gets halved nearly every couple of days doesn't seem to affect the difficulty. I don't know maybe I am just upset that POS takes so long even though the actual time between blocks is so fast. I mean for fuck's sake could we get one POS coin that allows a normal person to collect interest on their hard earned coins without having to sit on them for nearly 2 months, because I doubt anyone made their entire fortune in the first month, well except for those guys who were lucky enough to solomine with 100 yac rewards when the n factor didnt make a difference.  :'(
To be honest I don't know what I want, I would really just be happy seeing POS work properly and not take so long to kick in because it really is all the same. I would prefer that POS worked after a week but the staked coins took like from 2-4 weeks to mature or something like that.
I just hope that YAC doesn't die of auto-erotic asphyxiatioN (factor) cause I like what it stood for, the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow could be used to cool one's overheating CPU while simultaneously leveraging the GPU for bitcoin mining.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on May 29, 2013, 07:39:47 PM
Happy N increase everyone!

*pulls a party popper*


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 29, 2013, 07:54:18 PM
the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow could be used to cool one's overheating CPU

I like that line. Sigged.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: crendore on May 29, 2013, 08:15:48 PM
Hey guys, so i got YAC QT working on OSX, if anyone wants to try it out the dl is in my sig.

If there is any other ALT coin you want a mac QT for, let me know.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on May 29, 2013, 10:53:12 PM
Could someone put up the current network hash rate?

Thanks.

 :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 30, 2013, 12:52:10 AM
It worked guys  ;D

I was half harsh sending Bter message yesterday and that bad coin description is gone while fee is lowered to standard 0.2%


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dragon2nd on May 30, 2013, 12:58:03 AM
It worked guys  ;D

I was half harsh sending Bter message yesterday and that bad coin description is gone while fee is lowered to standard 0.2%

Great! Thank you for your contribution. Now YAC/BTC on BTer has risen significantly.

It would be better if we could get YAC on BTC-e.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 30, 2013, 01:03:19 AM
I was not alone, I've seen someone posted he sent them mail few days ago so I decided to add to it. I was pretty resolute though, as always  ;D

BTC-e, with time... what happened with ftc and cnc probably stopped the entrance for new coins and they  were pretty right not adding any of new ones.. but if YAC continues to be as stable as it is, they'll change their minds at some time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wesleyrbk on May 30, 2013, 02:36:37 AM
Also wrote a email earlier today. Not long after they removed the warning. Great job everyone. As a celebration I bought a couple of thousand coins.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 30, 2013, 06:57:46 AM
yacoin.org is offering windows client that does not download blockchain at this moment and just gives errors.

 I am not sure who is running that site but we need to get the new client on there if we want people to work with this coin.

 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 30, 2013, 07:10:11 AM
yacoin.org is offering windows client that does not download blockchain at this moment and just gives errors.

 I am not sure who is running that site but we need to get the new client on there if we want people to work with this coin.

You mean the message about old checkpoint? It's harmless.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: azwccc on May 30, 2013, 05:24:30 PM
is this development still going? any response from pocopoco? Where is yacoin going?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 30, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
is this development still going? any response from pocopoco? Where is yacoin going?
Nah, he vanished just like Satoshi. :D
YAC is going to the moon and beyond!  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 30, 2013, 06:02:16 PM
is this development still going? any response from pocopoco? Where is yacoin going?

WindMaster has taken the lead on development, and I have contributed a tiny bit as well. If any of you are devs, or can contribute in other ways, please get involved! Let's make YACoin as good and stable as Bitcoin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on May 30, 2013, 06:26:09 PM
Anyone know the market cap of yac?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 30, 2013, 06:28:39 PM
Anyone know the market cap of yac?

3M coins @ ~0.0004 BTC/YAC = 1200 BTC or $156000


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on May 30, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
Anyone know the market cap of yac?

3M coins @ ~0.0004 BTC/YAC = 1200 BTC or $156000

Thanks :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Seth Otterstad on May 30, 2013, 06:38:01 PM
you cant atm...

yac uses scrypt-jane, and is/was designed to be cpu mined only..

If you could, it would be the end of yac, as its core ethos would be pointless

If you think a GPU miner can't be coded for it, you're mistaken.  Both chacha20 and keccak have faster throughputs than salsa20 and sha2-256, and the value of N right now should provide extremely good GPU performance.

Except N will change _tomorrow_ and then what?

Doesn't matter -- because of the TMTO tradeoff and higher GPU memory bandwidth I doubt you'll see a point where GPU implementation is slower.  Once you have the GPU implementation adjusting it for higher N values will be trivial.

Is TacoTime right about this?  Why are people saying GPU mining will become impossible in august?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 30, 2013, 06:40:59 PM
Is TacoTime right about this?  Why are people saying GPU mining will become impossible in august?
Current GPU implementations stop working at Nfactor value due to be in august. IMHO it's unlikely that this can't be fixed. However, GPUs should be much slower by then, only slightly faster than a CPU (AFAIK).

EDIT: see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620
also, cpu vs gpu speed comparison at various N: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2241855#msg2241855 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2241855#msg2241855)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: azwccc on May 30, 2013, 06:47:03 PM
is this development still going? any response from pocopoco? Where is yacoin going?

WindMaster has taken the lead on development, and I have contributed a tiny bit as well. If any of you are devs, or can contribute in other ways, please get involved! Let's make YACoin as good and stable as Bitcoin.

This sounds great, thank you guys for the work to keep this coin going.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Seth Otterstad on May 30, 2013, 06:59:27 PM
Is TacoTime right about this?  Why are people saying GPU mining will become impossible in august?
Current GPU implementations stop working at Nfactor value due to be in august. IMHO it's unlikely that this can't be fixed. However, GPUs should be much slower by then, only slightly faster than a CPU (AFAIK).

EDIT: see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2162620#msg2162620

So I am to understand that when coblee asked for suggestions on how to prevent GPUs from taking over litecoin, all he had to do was change the N value to higher than 8192 and litecoin would have become way more GPU resistant?

Coblee's thread about GPU-mining and Litecoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64239.0


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 30, 2013, 07:14:43 PM
So I am to understand that when coblee asked for suggestions on how to prevent GPUs from taking over litecoin, all he had to do was change the N value to higher than 8192 and litecoin would have become way more GPU resistant?

Coblee's thread about GPU-mining and Litecoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64239.0

Well, the N factor increases memory requirements for computing a single hash (thus it's using more memory and memory bandwidth). Current GPUs will quickly run out-of-memory (or there's other GPU-specific constraint that prevents the code from running at higher N, dunno). However, it also affects CPUs really hard (around 40% hashrate decrease if I remember correctly).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: procrypto on May 30, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
Apologies to WindMaster and the rest of the community, I haven't had enough time to dedicate to this as yet, as it happens to have coincided with ongoing drama and mayhem in my meatspace job. Personally still getting up to speed with cryptocurrencies in general (I'm a front end web developer by trade) so don't feel I can yet contribute a whole lot to core development yet, but I'm learning fast.

On #2, anyone have further thoughts on whether a third-party miner (cpuminer) should indeed be included in the main YACoin installer, or if that would be better divided into a 2nd, different installer?  Same for selecting which p2pools to sort of "endorse" as part of the installer, when we know that p2pools are going to be a fast-moving target and any that are selected might randomly disappear or misbehave in the future, causing basically broken shortcuts unless someone is constantly checking for new versions of the client installer.

On the first point, I'd rather it all be in a single installer. I think we should definitely aim to keep the whole process as simple as possible (i.e. one installer to run over two).

Agree with this, single installer would be far preferable for most users.

b. the script that launches the miner makes a web service call to a central service (on google appengine for example) that will feed back a "current" list of p2pool hostnames. From this, the command line arguments are constructed. Making such a web service would be trivial. The script could be created that a default, hardcoded list would be used if this webservice was down.

This seems like a great idea, updating the list of p2pools remotely would be much better than relying on a hardcoded list alone.

Guys, have you seen bitminter.com (https://bitminter.com/)? Very neat pool.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9719672/bitminter.jpg

Love this kind of interface, would be super user-friendly for the average desktop miner to operate.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: tacotime on May 30, 2013, 07:33:27 PM
So I am to understand that when coblee asked for suggestions on how to prevent GPUs from taking over litecoin, all he had to do was change the N value to higher than 8192 and litecoin would have become way more GPU resistant?

Coblee's thread about GPU-mining and Litecoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64239.0

Well, the N factor increases memory requirements for computing a single hash (thus it's using more memory and memory bandwidth). Current GPUs will quickly run out-of-memory (or there's other GPU-specific constraint that prevents the code from running at higher N, dunno). However, it also affects CPUs really hard (around 40% hashrate decrease if I remember correctly).

Nah, all you have to do is increase the lookup gap (via the previously published TMTO solution for scrypt from cgminer/reaper) and then you can compute the same hashes with less memory.

There's a probably bug in mtrlt's current code that doesn't allow calculation above N=4096, but it's possible that this particular TMTO implementation is not really optimized well for the GPU and that in the future with some hacking we'll see the gap further widen.

The further up the N value you get, the greater dependence on memory access speeds you typically observe (or at least, I observed using scrypt-jane on a CPU).  I wouldn't be surprised if eventually an implementation for GPUs came along that was optimized and destroyed CPUs for efficiency and speed.

BLAKE is used as an entropy source to randomize memory access too, I wouldn't be surprised if you looked at accesses to the lookup table and found that they end up being less than random as well due to consistent ordering of some types of data in the block header (thus also diminishing the amount of memory required).  I think pooler observed this when he was writing his CPU miner.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 30, 2013, 08:04:46 PM
 I wouldn't be surprised if eventually an implementation for GPUs came along that was optimized and destroyed CPUs for efficiency and speed.

+1

There's no way to [proof] proof anything forever... Unless WM wants to spend the time/effort to constantly try to stay ahead of GPU implementations...

Personally, I don't see a reason why eventual mass GPU YACoin mining would do anything but strengthen YAC as it did for LTC. Besides, there are going to be "lots" of vid cards sitting around looking for something to do once ASIC's completely take over Bitcoin. 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on May 30, 2013, 08:12:51 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually an implementation for GPUs came along that was optimized and destroyed CPUs for efficiency and speed.

+1

There's no way to [proof] proof anything forever... Unless WM wants to spend the time/effort to constantly try to stay ahead of GPU implementations...

Personally, I don't see a reason why eventual mass GPU YACoin mining would do anything but strengthen YAC as it did for LTC. Besides, there are going to be "lots" of vid cards sitting around looking for something to do once ASIC's completely take over Bitcoin. 
I am actually going to have to disagree. GPU mining means fpga's and asics can still function and thus dominate which is why YAC must be sure to keep it self safe from things such as this. Furthermore, GPU mining would only increase the difficulty and make my small supply of coins even smaller  ;)
No but really litecoin isn't that well off, sure it is better than YAC or most other alt coins but thats pretty much because it was first not because GPU mining has treated it well.
If need be while it would be painful I think that the N factor should be increased if gpu mining became a viable option lest people begin the process of pumping and dumping. If we want YAC to last we need to keep it CPU only. Because even if everyone is going slower it will at least be a network wide slowdown and hit everyone relatively evenly which is partly why the massive speed decreases arent that bad because it is only a speed decrease for the network and not just for you and these decreases help keep YAC slightly safer with each increment. What I think we need next TBH is a proper mining program with stratum support. That way we can capitalize on the hashrate we still have left and get better feedback and less stale shares.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Seth Otterstad on May 30, 2013, 08:21:34 PM
The whole point of trying to make a GPU-hard coin is to get a more even initial coin distribution than bitcoin/litecoin did.  The number of people with CPUs is way higher than the number with good GPUs.  There is no point to making a new alt-coin to change the mining algorithm if it doesn't promote a wider distribution by cutting out the GPU farmers.  The algorithm doesn't have to last forever; it only has to last a few years until ASICs are developed.  Litecoin lost its whole purpose when it was taken over by GPUs.  If we knew a way to assign an equal amount of coins to everyone on the planet in a decentralized way, we would do that, but that technology is decades away.  Distributing it to everyone with a CPU is way less fair, but it is still vastly superior to giving it to everyone with a GPU.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 30, 2013, 08:26:14 PM
What I think we need next TBH is a proper mining program with stratum support. That way we can capitalize on the hashrate we still have left and get better feedback and less stale shares.

I looked at this very briefly a few days ago and it looks like it could be adapted to YACoin if someone has time to spend a few hours on it    https://github.com/CryptoManiac/stratum-mining


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AGD on May 31, 2013, 07:17:03 AM
What is the advantage of Stratum mining?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 31, 2013, 07:30:38 AM
AMD's next gen APU with HSA will be very interesting, the unified memory addressing can be the boost for the scrypt or even scrypt jane. In next year, we can try Kaveri.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on May 31, 2013, 07:57:24 AM
What is the advantage of Stratum mining?

More work is done on miners end resulting in less bandwidth needed for the pool server.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 31, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
AMD's next gen APU with HSA will be very interesting, the unified memory addressing can be the boost for the scrypt or even scrypt jane. In next year, we can try Kaveri.

Note that scrypt-jane isn't a hashing algorithm, it's a generic scrypt library that supports many different variations of scrypt, including scrypt+salsa20/8 as used by Litecoin.  I've noticed quite a few people refer to the scrypt variant used by YAC as "scrypt-jane", but that's actually wrong.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on May 31, 2013, 11:15:17 AM
Hmm someone should put a bounty up for proper software or better yet integration into cgminer (which is much more likely than BFGminer due to lukejr's view on alt coins)
I'd be willing to throw a couple coins in to get a bounty up. (by coins I mean both YAC and BTC)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on May 31, 2013, 02:27:57 PM
Note that scrypt-jane isn't a hashing algorithm, it's a generic scrypt library that supports many different variations of scrypt, including scrypt+salsa20/8 as used by Litecoin.  I've noticed quite a few people refer to the scrypt variant used by YAC as "scrypt-jane", but that's actually wrong.

So what's the name for it? ::) We shall give it a name, scrypt-chacha?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dragon2nd on May 31, 2013, 02:41:11 PM
Quote
{
    "blocks" : 76185,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 1.48652633,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : true,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 150811,
    "networkhashps" : 89660601,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 8,
    "N" : 512,
    "powreward" : 23.40000000
}

I've noticed a huge increase in network hashrate. It is now 600x my own hashrate, while it was still 300x two days ago.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 31, 2013, 02:46:50 PM
I've noticed a huge increase in network hashrate. It is now 600x my own hashrate, while it was still 300x two days ago.

The client sometimes reports garbage, take a look at these graphs, they're averaged over 144 blocks (10 blocks for 24h graphs).
Network hashrate actually decreased on the 29th due to the Nfactor change.
http://yacexplorer.tk/graphs.htm (http://yacexplorer.tk/graphs.htm)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on May 31, 2013, 03:44:54 PM
I think it's very important to see YAC on sites like http://www.coinchoose.com/

I found this post with formula for BTC : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63273.msg743237#msg743237

But i have no idea how we can integrate N in this formula.. someone have an idea ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on May 31, 2013, 03:55:50 PM
I think it's very important to see YAC on sites like http://www.coinchoose.com/

I found this post with formula for BTC : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63273.msg743237#msg743237

But i have no idea how we can integrate N in this formula.. someone have an idea ?

You need a formula for the block reward, Nfactor affects only difficulty.

EDIT: from the source:
Code:
int64 GetProofOfWorkReward(unsigned int nBits)
{
    CBigNum bnSubsidyLimit = MAX_MINT_PROOF_OF_WORK;
    CBigNum bnTarget;
    bnTarget.SetCompact(nBits);
    CBigNum bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfWorkLimit;
    bnTargetLimit.SetCompact(bnTargetLimit.GetCompact());

    // ppcoin: subsidy is cut in half every 64x multiply of difficulty
    // A reasonably continuous curve is used to avoid shock to market
    // (nSubsidyLimit / nSubsidy) ** 6 == bnProofOfWorkLimit / bnTarget
    //
    // Human readable form:
    //
    // nSubsidy = 100 / (diff ^ 1/6)
    CBigNum bnLowerBound = CENT;
    CBigNum bnUpperBound = bnSubsidyLimit;
    while (bnLowerBound + CENT <= bnUpperBound)
    {
        CBigNum bnMidValue = (bnLowerBound + bnUpperBound) / 2;
        if (fDebug && GetBoolArg("-printcreation"))
            printf("GetProofOfWorkReward() : lower=%"PRI64d" upper=%"PRI64d" mid=%"PRI64d"\n", bnLowerBound.getuint64(), bnUpperBound.getuint64(), bnMidValue.getuint64());
        if (bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnTargetLimit > bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnTarget)
            bnUpperBound = bnMidValue;
        else
            bnLowerBound = bnMidValue;
    }

    int64 nSubsidy = bnUpperBound.getuint64();
    nSubsidy = (nSubsidy / CENT) * CENT;
    if (fDebug && GetBoolArg("-printcreation"))
        printf("GetProofOfWorkReward() : create=%s nBits=0x%08x nSubsidy=%"PRI64d"\n", FormatMoney(nSubsidy).c_str(), nBits, nSubsidy);

    return min(nSubsidy, MAX_MINT_PROOF_OF_WORK);
}


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on May 31, 2013, 06:25:35 PM
Suggestion for official Yacoin currency symbol Ɏ or U+024E   

Symbol: Ɏ
Unicode name: Latin Capital Letter Y with stroke
Code: U+024E
Decimal:
Code:
&#590;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_input


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 31, 2013, 06:28:12 PM
Sounds good. I don't think the Igorot people in the Philippines will mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_with_stroke


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on May 31, 2013, 07:27:01 PM
I think it's very important to see YAC on sites like http://www.coinchoose.com/

I found this post with formula for BTC : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63273.msg743237#msg743237

But i have no idea how we can integrate N in this formula.. someone have an idea ?

YAC was on CoinChoose for a bit, but I think sal002 took it off because it skewed the graphs. Perhaps there's another way we could have it added (on a separate "CPU Coin" section...or not have a line for it on the graph, but have it in the grid, etc).

I do agree that it's very important to have it on CoinChoose, but as it is a CPU coin with a low value, the result may not be that impressive anyhow. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 31, 2013, 07:28:55 PM
Suggestion for official Yacoin currency symbol Ɏ or U+024E   

Symbol: Ɏ
Unicode name: Latin Capital Letter Y with stroke
Code: U+024E
Decimal:
Code:
&#590;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_input

Good one, that's another bit of originality for YAC.

I vote for this one.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on May 31, 2013, 07:34:17 PM
Suggestion for official Yacoin currency symbol Ɏ or U+024E   

Symbol: Ɏ
Unicode name: Latin Capital Letter Y with stroke
Code: U+024E
Decimal:
Code:
&#590;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_input

Good one, that's another bit of originality for YAC.

I vote for this one.
I second this, it is a pretty good simple plus unicode is definetly a plus.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 31, 2013, 07:48:08 PM
Anyone willing to create logos that reflect the symbol, please feel free! Sometimes the perfect graphic isn't self evident till it's seen. I'll try myself too when I can.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 31, 2013, 08:14:56 PM
Note that scrypt-jane isn't a hashing algorithm, it's a generic scrypt library that supports many different variations of scrypt, including scrypt+salsa20/8 as used by Litecoin.  I've noticed quite a few people refer to the scrypt variant used by YAC as "scrypt-jane", but that's actually wrong.

So what's the name for it? ::) We shall give it a name, scrypt-chacha?

That's probably the closest option at this point.  In that scenario, scrypt-salsa would accurately refer to the algorithm used by Litecoin, and scrypt-chacha would accurately refer to the algorithm used by YAC.  It's not perfect, as it describes the choice of mixing algorithm but not the choice of hash.  But until someone does something strange like create an altcoin that uses chacha20/8 combined with SHA256 instead of Keccak512, I think "scrypt-chacha" is probably concise enough for now.

So, unless anyone has a different idea, let's indeed call it scrypt-chacha and correct people that call it scrypt-jane (since that's not correct regardless what we decide it should be called!).  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on May 31, 2013, 09:10:43 PM
NOTE: No binaries are posted at this point.  You'll need to build from source from my GitHub repository during these early stages of development.  Windows client build is still problematic, as the scrypt-jane library does not compile cleanly with mingw.

I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on May 31, 2013, 09:26:34 PM

You need a formula for the block reward, Nfactor affects only difficulty.

EDIT: from the source:
Code:
int64 GetProofOfWorkReward(unsigned int nBits)
{
    CBigNum bnSubsidyLimit = MAX_MINT_PROOF_OF_WORK;
    CBigNum bnTarget;
    bnTarget.SetCompact(nBits);
    CBigNum bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfWorkLimit;
    bnTargetLimit.SetCompact(bnTargetLimit.GetCompact());

    // ppcoin: subsidy is cut in half every 64x multiply of difficulty
    // A reasonably continuous curve is used to avoid shock to market
    // (nSubsidyLimit / nSubsidy) ** 6 == bnProofOfWorkLimit / bnTarget
    //
    // Human readable form:
    //
    // nSubsidy = 100 / (diff ^ 1/6)
    CBigNum bnLowerBound = CENT;
    CBigNum bnUpperBound = bnSubsidyLimit;
    while (bnLowerBound + CENT <= bnUpperBound)
    {
        CBigNum bnMidValue = (bnLowerBound + bnUpperBound) / 2;
        if (fDebug && GetBoolArg("-printcreation"))
            printf("GetProofOfWorkReward() : lower=%"PRI64d" upper=%"PRI64d" mid=%"PRI64d"\n", bnLowerBound.getuint64(), bnUpperBound.getuint64(), bnMidValue.getuint64());
        if (bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnMidValue * bnTargetLimit > bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnSubsidyLimit * bnTarget)
            bnUpperBound = bnMidValue;
        else
            bnLowerBound = bnMidValue;
    }

    int64 nSubsidy = bnUpperBound.getuint64();
    nSubsidy = (nSubsidy / CENT) * CENT;
    if (fDebug && GetBoolArg("-printcreation"))
        printf("GetProofOfWorkReward() : create=%s nBits=0x%08x nSubsidy=%"PRI64d"\n", FormatMoney(nSubsidy).c_str(), nBits, nSubsidy);

    return min(nSubsidy, MAX_MINT_PROOF_OF_WORK);
}

hum.. i understand. Thank you, i will look at this code this week end.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on May 31, 2013, 09:30:41 PM
Anyone willing to create logos that reflect the symbol, please feel free! Sometimes the perfect graphic isn't self evident till it's seen. I'll try myself too when I can.

Made some here: http://imgur.com/hq9J1OT,UWl7yoB,BDVfAPk (3 sizes)

Example:

http://i.imgur.com/UWl7yoB.png

Alt colour :

http://imgur.com/rcpKRbT http://imgur.com/998DjGF http://imgur.com/qidJeRX


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on May 31, 2013, 09:33:52 PM
I think it's very important to see YAC on sites like http://www.coinchoose.com/

I found this post with formula for BTC : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63273.msg743237#msg743237

But i have no idea how we can integrate N in this formula.. someone have an idea ?

YAC was on CoinChoose for a bit, but I think sal002 took it off because it skewed the graphs. Perhaps there's another way we could have it added (on a separate "CPU Coin" section...or not have a line for it on the graph, but have it in the grid, etc).

I do agree that it's very important to have it on CoinChoose, but as it is a CPU coin with a low value, the result may not be that impressive anyhow. :)

The challenge is to find a way to calculate the income functions of hardware ... it is very important for someone who decides to invest in mining .. but the change in N makes it very difficult ..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on May 31, 2013, 09:38:00 PM
Suggestion for official Yacoin currency symbol Ɏ or U+024E   

Symbol: Ɏ
Unicode name: Latin Capital Letter Y with stroke
Code: U+024E
Decimal:
Code:
&#590;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_input

great idea, i like this!    :)

It's really cool to see a live altcoin build brick by brick. :-)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on May 31, 2013, 10:01:32 PM
NOTE: No binaries are posted at this point.  You'll need to build from source from my GitHub repository during these early stages of development.  Windows client build is still problematic, as the scrypt-jane library does not compile cleanly with mingw.

I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Only one way to find out! I will add the changes to my repo and you (or someone with Windows) can test from there - if everything looks good I will send a pull request to WM to request that it's added.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on May 31, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
Made some here: http://imgur.com/hq9J1OT,UWl7yoB,BDVfAPk (3 sizes)

Example:

http://i.imgur.com/UWl7yoB.png

I love it! It looks kinda industrial, like something related to real, solid goods.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on May 31, 2013, 10:42:07 PM
colors are too soft though


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on May 31, 2013, 10:48:07 PM
NOTE: No binaries are posted at this point.  You'll need to build from source from my GitHub repository during these early stages of development.  Windows client build is still problematic, as the scrypt-jane library does not compile cleanly with mingw.

I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Only one way to find out! I will add the changes to my repo and you (or someone with Windows) can test from there - if everything looks good I will send a pull request to WM to request that it's added.

PM me when you've compiled, I'll get a VM spun up for testing


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on May 31, 2013, 11:14:49 PM
I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Only one way to find out! I will add the changes to my repo and you (or someone with Windows) can test from there - if everything looks good I will send a pull request to WM to request that it's added.

Keep me updated on what happens there.  If you're working on it, I'll work on other things.  I had blocked out some time during the weekend to look at the updated commits to scrypt-jane and see about cranking out a full Windows installer package.  If you check on the scrypt-jane update and whether it fixes Windows builds, I'll concentrate on the other things that need to get wrapped up.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 01, 2013, 12:01:09 AM
I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Only one way to find out! I will add the changes to my repo and you (or someone with Windows) can test from there - if everything looks good I will send a pull request to WM to request that it's added.

Keep me updated on what happens there.  If you're working on it, I'll work on other things.  I had blocked out some time during the weekend to look at the updated commits to scrypt-jane and see about cranking out a full Windows installer package.  If you check on the scrypt-jane update and whether it fixes Windows builds, I'll concentrate on the other things that need to get wrapped up.

OK, all of floodyberry's changes have been merged to  https://github.com/joebauers/yacoin.git   I compiled in Debian and everything still works great.

*** Someone with windows will need to see if they can get everything compiled from my changes. ***

Note: That https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin is what everyone will want to use for Production builds - https://github.com/joebauers/yacoin.git is just to test the changes from floodyberry.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 01, 2013, 01:03:39 AM
I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Only one way to find out! I will add the changes to my repo and you (or someone with Windows) can test from there - if everything looks good I will send a pull request to WM to request that it's added.

Keep me updated on what happens there.  If you're working on it, I'll work on other things.  I had blocked out some time during the weekend to look at the updated commits to scrypt-jane and see about cranking out a full Windows installer package.  If you check on the scrypt-jane update and whether it fixes Windows builds, I'll concentrate on the other things that need to get wrapped up.

OK, all of floodyberry's changes have been merged to  https://github.com/joebauers/yacoin.git   I compiled in Debian and everything still works great.

*** Someone with windows will need to see if they can get everything compiled from my changes. ***

Note: That https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin is what everyone will want to use for Production builds - https://github.com/joebauers/yacoin.git is just to test the changes from floodyberry.

I'm giving this a shot - hopefully the guide to building bitcoin-qt with mingw applies here.  I hate to say it, but I was spoiled by the ease of adding dependencies and packages under ubuntu... this seems antiquated


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 01, 2013, 03:20:06 AM
I was doing some digging, and saw that there were commits to scrypt-jane a couple weeks ago labelled as "fixes so it will compile and run under mingw" - if you pulled that, could we get updated Windows binaries and get them posted?

https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane


Only one way to find out! I will add the changes to my repo and you (or someone with Windows) can test from there - if everything looks good I will send a pull request to WM to request that it's added.

Keep me updated on what happens there.  If you're working on it, I'll work on other things.  I had blocked out some time during the weekend to look at the updated commits to scrypt-jane and see about cranking out a full Windows installer package.  If you check on the scrypt-jane update and whether it fixes Windows builds, I'll concentrate on the other things that need to get wrapped up.

would the following errors be the weirdness you saw when trying to get it to compile under mingw?

Code:
obj/scrypt_mine.o: In function `Z11scrypt_hashPKvjPjh':
C:\yacoin\src/scrypt_mine.cpp:101: undefined reference to `scrypt'
obj/scrypt_mine.o: In function `Z15scanhash_scryptP12block_headerjRjPvS0_h':
C:\yacoin\src/scrypt_mine.cpp:202: undefined reference to `scrypt'
collect2.exe: error: ld returned 1 exit status


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ongle on June 01, 2013, 05:21:58 AM
If it helps anybody, last weekend I was finally able to build the client on x64 windows (using windmaster and floodyberry's github projects). I'm not sure why people say scrypt won't compile on windows, I don't recall having issues with that part. Dependencies were a b*tch though. I think I got upnp linked in but couldn't get qrencode working due to pthread linking errors that I can't figure out (yet). If nothing else it gets rid of the checkpoint message. It also uses a different icon for the exe (public domain by bitdwarf (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196196.msg2039862#msg2039862)), but it only really shows in explorer and I didn't bother replacing any other graphics. It is using these dependencies:

BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX=-mgw46-mt-s-1_50
BOOST_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\boost-1.50.0-mgw
BOOST_LIB_PATH=d:\\boost-1.50.0-mgw\\stage\\lib
BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\db-4.8.30.NC-mgw\\build_unix
BDB_LIB_PATH=d:\\db-4.8.30.NC-mgw\\build_unix
OPENSSL_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\openssl-1.0.1e-mgw\\include
OPENSSL_LIB_PATH=d:\\openssl-1.0.1e-mgw
MINIUPNPC_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\miniupnpc-1.8-mgw
MINIUPNPC_LIB_PATH=d:\\miniupnpc-1.8-mgw\\miniupnpc

I didn't post it right away because nobody knows me and I didn't want to be accused of adding malware. Maybe someone trusted in the community could check it out. If you have any doubts, don't download it please. Also, you really should encrypt your main wallets to protect yourself this sort of thing. If you are doing solo mining and have to leave it unencrypted, I suggest making two wallets and transfer coins to the encrypted wallet from time to time. As always, backup your data before running any random downloads from teh interwebs.

http://tig.org/crypto/yacoin-qt.zip

I also recompiled the minerd_scrypt_jane_avx that god3  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201027.msg2098460#msg2098460)posted for x64, with the single change to not print the LONGPOLL messages when running in quite (-q) mode. Again, I don't know how to prove it isn't malware.

http://tig.org/crypto/minerd_avx.zip


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 01, 2013, 05:53:21 AM
If it helps anybody, last weekend I was finally able to build the client on x64 windows (using windmaster and floodyberry's github projects). I'm not sure why people say scrypt won't compile on windows, I don't recall having issues with that part. Dependencies were a b*tch though. I think I got upnp linked in but couldn't get qrencode working due to pthread linking errors that I can't figure out (yet). If nothing else it gets rid of the checkpoint message. It also uses a different icon for the exe (public domain by bitdwarf (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196196.msg2039862#msg2039862)), but it only really shows in explorer and I didn't bother replacing any other graphics. It is using these dependencies:

BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX=-mgw46-mt-s-1_50
BOOST_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\boost-1.50.0-mgw
BOOST_LIB_PATH=d:\\boost-1.50.0-mgw\\stage\\lib
BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\db-4.8.30.NC-mgw\\build_unix
BDB_LIB_PATH=d:\\db-4.8.30.NC-mgw\\build_unix
OPENSSL_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\openssl-1.0.1e-mgw\\include
OPENSSL_LIB_PATH=d:\\openssl-1.0.1e-mgw
MINIUPNPC_INCLUDE_PATH=d:\\miniupnpc-1.8-mgw
MINIUPNPC_LIB_PATH=d:\\miniupnpc-1.8-mgw\\miniupnpc

I didn't post it right away because nobody knows me and I didn't want to be accused of adding malware. Maybe someone trusted in the community could check it out. If you have any doubts, don't download it please. Also, you really should encrypt your main wallets to protect yourself this sort of thing. If you are doing solo mining and have to leave it unencrypted, I suggest making two wallets and transfer coins to the encrypted wallet from time to time. As always, backup your data before running any random downloads from teh interwebs.

http://tig.org/crypto/yacoin-qt.zip

I also recompiled the minerd_scrypt_jane_avx that god3  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201027.msg2098460#msg2098460)posted for x64, with the single change to not print the LONGPOLL messages when running in quite (-q) mode. Again, I don't know how to prove it isn't malware.

http://tig.org/crypto/minerd_avx.zip

Thank you for posting that it is possible - I've been pondering away most of the night without a terrible amount of success.  Any chance you could link me your Makefile.mingw?  I know there are some problems in there (as the included one wasn't even including scrypt-jane.o in the objects and didn't have the algorithms chosen in the compiler flags like the unix makefile has).

The only dependancy differences I'm noting is that you used boost 1.50 and I've used boost 1.53 - I'm still getting the error I mentioned above, but now that it's actually trying to include scrypt-jane, I've got a whole host of other errors for that which don't make a lot of sense...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 01, 2013, 06:43:56 AM
colors are too soft though

Heres a psd file so anyone can modify the colours, this one also has slightly stronger colours to start with :

https://mega.co.nz/#!VhYm3bbT!HluFg2Gner_jFDWU4lDII2RHKg1XtvWx5CAqrb0LkCk

Example : http://imgur.com/scPsMZi & http://imgur.com/n5oCmJO

http://i.imgur.com/w10atS3.png


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 01, 2013, 07:03:33 AM
If it helps anybody, last weekend I was finally able to build the client on x64 windows (using windmaster and floodyberry's github projects). I'm not sure why people say scrypt won't compile on windows, I don't recall having issues with that part.

If you were working from floodberry's github repository, that's a newer version of the scrypt-jane library that reportedly has been corrected to compile cleanly.  Previous version did not, due to the SSE instructions.


If nothing else it gets rid of the checkpoint message.
...
I didn't post it right away because nobody knows me and I didn't want to be accused of adding malware. Maybe someone trusted in the community could check it out. If you have any doubts, don't download it please.

Hanzac already released a 64-bit Windows build based on my GitHub repository about 2 weeks ago after I fixed the checkpoint warning.  Multiple people have checked it out and haven't observed it to do anything suspicious or unusual:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2207446#msg2207446 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2207446#msg2207446)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 01, 2013, 08:37:53 AM
If you are doing solo mining and have to leave it unencrypted, I suggest making two wallets and transfer coins to the encrypted wallet from time to time. As always, backup your data before running any random downloads from teh interwebs.

Sorry if this is offtopic but can't I solo-mine with my wallet encrypted?
My wallet is encrypted and I'm solo-mining with the minerd and I'm not getting any errors.. ???


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 01, 2013, 10:31:56 AM
If you are doing solo mining and have to leave it unencrypted, I suggest making two wallets and transfer coins to the encrypted wallet from time to time. As always, backup your data before running any random downloads from teh interwebs.

Sorry if this is offtopic but can't I solo-mine with my wallet encrypted?
My wallet is encrypted and I'm solo-mining with the minerd and I'm not getting any errors.. ???

You won't find any block if you have your wallet encrypted and locked. Either unlock it for a long time period (walletpassphrase <pass> 99999999) or remove encryption.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ongle on June 01, 2013, 12:55:16 PM
Thank you for posting that it is possible - I've been pondering away most of the night without a terrible amount of success.  Any chance you could link me your Makefile.mingw?  I know there are some problems in there (as the included one wasn't even including scrypt-jane.o in the objects and didn't have the algorithms chosen in the compiler flags like the unix makefile has).

The only dependancy differences I'm noting is that you used boost 1.50 and I've used boost 1.53 - I'm still getting the error I mentioned above, but now that it's actually trying to include scrypt-jane, I've got a whole host of other errors for that which don't make a lot of sense...

Sure. This only gets you so far, have to do the qt pro build afterwards. I think I wasted a lot of time trying to build from within MSYS but ultimately ran this from CMD.

Code:
mingw32-make -f makefile.mingw

Code:
# Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
# Distributed under the MIT/X11 software license, see the accompanying
# file COPYING or http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php.

USE_UPNP:=0
USE_IPV6:=1

INCLUDEPATHS= \
 -I"d:\boost-1.50.0-mgw" \
 -I"d:\db-4.8.30.NC-mgw\build_unix" \
 -I"d:\openssl-1.0.1e-mgw\include"
 
LIBPATHS= \
 -L"d:\boost-1.50.0-mgw\stage\lib" \
 -L"d:\db-4.8.30.NC-mgw\build_unix" \
 -L"d:\openssl-1.0.1e-mgw"

LIBS= \
 -l boost_system-mgw46-mt-s-1_50 \
 -l boost_filesystem-mgw46-mt-s-1_50 \
 -l boost_program_options-mgw46-mt-s-1_50 \
 -l boost_thread-mgw46-mt-s-1_50 \
 -l boost_chrono-mgw46-mt-s-1_50 \
 -l db_cxx \
 -l ssl \
 -l crypto

DEFS=-DWIN32 -D_WINDOWS -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE
DEBUGFLAGS=-g
CFLAGS=-mthreads -O2 -msse2 -w -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parameter $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DEFS) $(INCLUDEPATHS)
LDFLAGS=-Wl,--dynamicbase -Wl,--nxcompat

# scrypt-jane specific parameters
DEFS+=-DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_CHOOSE_COMPILETIME

xCXXFLAGS_SCRYPT_JANE=-O3 -msse2 -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parameter \
    $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DEFS) $(HARDENING) $(CXXFLAGS)

TESTDEFS = -DTEST_DATA_DIR=$(abspath test/data)

ifndef USE_UPNP
override USE_UPNP = -
endif
ifneq (${USE_UPNP}, -)
 INCLUDEPATHS += -I"d:\miniupnpc-1.8-mgw"
 LIBPATHS += -L"d:\miniupnpc-1.8-mgw\miniupnpc"
 LIBS += -l miniupnpc -l iphlpapi
 DEFS += -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_UPNP=$(USE_UPNP)
endif

ifneq (${USE_IPV6}, -)
DEFS += -DUSE_IPV6=$(USE_IPV6)
endif

LIBS += -l kernel32 -l user32 -l gdi32 -l comdlg32 -l winspool -l winmm -l shell32 -l comctl32 -l ole32 -l oleaut32 -l uuid -l rpcrt4 -l advapi32 -l ws2_32 -l mswsock -l shlwapi

# TODO: make the mingw builds smarter about dependencies, like the linux/osx builds are
HEADERS = $(wildcard *.h)

OBJS= \
    obj/alert.o \
    obj/version.o \
    obj/checkpoints.o \
    obj/netbase.o \
    obj/addrman.o \
    obj/crypter.o \
    obj/key.o \
    obj/db.o \
    obj/init.o \
    obj/irc.o \
    obj/keystore.o \
    obj/main.o \
    obj/net.o \
    obj/protocol.o \
    obj/bitcoinrpc.o \
    obj/rpcdump.o \
    obj/rpcnet.o \
    obj/rpcmining.o \
    obj/rpcwallet.o \
    obj/rpcblockchain.o \
    obj/rpcrawtransaction.o \
    obj/script.o \
    obj/sync.o \
    obj/util.o \
    obj/wallet.o \
    obj/walletdb.o \
    obj/noui.o \
    obj/kernel.o \
    obj/pbkdf2.o \
    obj/scrypt_mine.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86_64.o \
obj/scrypt-jane.o

all: yacoind.exe

test check: test_yacoin.exe FORCE
test_yacoin.exe

obj/%.o: %.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86.o: scrypt-x86.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86_64.o: scrypt-x86_64.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-jane.o: scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c
gcc -c $(xCXXFLAGS_SCRYPT_JANE) -MMD -o $@ $<

yacoind.exe: $(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%)
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ $(LIBS)

TESTOBJS := $(patsubst test/%.cpp,obj-test/%.o,$(wildcard test/*.cpp))

obj-test/%.o: test/%.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(TESTDEFS) $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

test_bitcoin.exe: $(TESTOBJS) $(filter-out obj/init.o,$(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%))
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ -lboost_unit_test_framework $(LIBS)

clean:
-del /Q yacoind test_yacoin
-del /Q obj\*
-del /Q obj-test\*

FORCE:


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ongle on June 01, 2013, 12:59:02 PM
Hanzac already released a 64-bit Windows build based on my GitHub repository about 2 weeks ago after I fixed the checkpoint warning.  Multiple people have checked it out and haven't observed it to do anything suspicious or unusual:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2207446#msg2207446

Yea, I even sent him a question or two. I was already working on it when I saw that. I was also trying to enable all the options on Windows, qrencode was the only one I couldn't get going. *shrug*


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 01, 2013, 01:09:58 PM
If you are doing solo mining and have to leave it unencrypted, I suggest making two wallets and transfer coins to the encrypted wallet from time to time. As always, backup your data before running any random downloads from teh interwebs.

Sorry if this is offtopic but can't I solo-mine with my wallet encrypted?
My wallet is encrypted and I'm solo-mining with the minerd and I'm not getting any errors.. ???

You won't find any block if you have your wallet encrypted and locked. Either unlock it for a long time period (walletpassphrase <pass> 99999999) or remove encryption.
Oh fuck..I forgot my wallet password and wasted hours of mining on nothing..
Bye 140 YACs ;_;


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 01, 2013, 02:21:21 PM
Rise Nfactor RISE !

    "blocks" : 77242,
    "currentblocksize" : 1527,
    "currentblocktx" : 1,
    "difficulty" : 1.39981203,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "networkhashps" : 56745133, <- 56Mh the network hash is rising
    "pooledtx" : 1,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 9,
    "N" : 1024,
    "powreward" : 23.64000000


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 01, 2013, 02:34:27 PM
I you are trying to build yacoind on windows you will find out a lot of errors because of the windows makefile (makefile.mingw) is untouched from novacoin, so the new scrypt version is not getting compiled (blame pocopoco).

I used this makefile ( added some comments for the changed lines) :
Code:
# Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
# Distributed under the MIT/X11 software license, see the accompanying
# file COPYING or http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php.

# No UPNP for this make file
USE_UPNP:=
USE_IPV6:=1

# Change the gcc version and boost version with the ones you have
# I used gcc 4.7 and boost 1.53
INCLUDEPATHS= \
 -I"/home/user/boost_1_53_0" \
 -I"/home/user/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" \
 -I"/home/user/openssl-1.0.1e/include"

LIBPATHS= \
 -L"/home/user/boost_1_53_0/stage/lib" \
 -L"/home/user/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" \
 -L"/home/user/openssl-1.0.1e"

LIBS= \
 -l boost_system-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_filesystem-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_program_options-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_thread-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_chrono-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l db_cxx \
 -l ssl \
 -l crypto

DEFS=-DWIN32 -D_WINDOWS -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE
DEBUGFLAGS=-g
CFLAGS=-static -mthreads -O2 -msse2 -w -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parameter $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DEFS) $(INCLUDEPATHS)

LDFLAGS=-Wl,--dynamicbase -Wl,--nxcompat

# This are the scrypt-jane specific parameters needed to compile you can use -msse2 if you don't have sse3
DEFS_JANE=-DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_CHOOSE_COMPILETIME -O3 -msse3

TESTDEFS = -DTEST_DATA_DIR=$(abspath test/data)

ifndef USE_UPNP
override USE_UPNP = -
endif
ifneq (${USE_UPNP}, -)
 INCLUDEPATHS += -I"C:\miniupnpc-1.6-mgw"
 LIBPATHS += -L"C:\miniupnpc-1.6-mgw"
 LIBS += -l miniupnpc -l iphlpapi
 DEFS += -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_UPNP=$(USE_UPNP)
endif

ifneq (${USE_IPV6}, -)
DEFS += -DUSE_IPV6=$(USE_IPV6)
endif

LIBS += -l kernel32 -l user32 -l gdi32 -l comdlg32 -l winspool -l winmm -l shell32 -l comctl32 -l ole32 -l oleaut32 -l uuid -l rpcrt4 -l advapi32 -l ws2_32 -l mswsock -l shlwapi

# TODO: make the mingw builds smarter about dependencies, like the linux/osx builds are
HEADERS = $(wildcard *.h)

# Notice I added the scrypt-jane obj at the end
OBJS= \
    obj/alert.o \
    obj/version.o \
    obj/checkpoints.o \
    obj/netbase.o \
    obj/addrman.o \
    obj/crypter.o \
    obj/key.o \
    obj/db.o \
    obj/init.o \
    obj/irc.o \
    obj/keystore.o \
    obj/main.o \
    obj/net.o \
    obj/protocol.o \
    obj/bitcoinrpc.o \
    obj/rpcdump.o \
    obj/rpcnet.o \
    obj/rpcmining.o \
    obj/rpcwallet.o \
    obj/rpcblockchain.o \
    obj/rpcrawtransaction.o \
    obj/script.o \
    obj/sync.o \
    obj/util.o \
    obj/wallet.o \
    obj/walletdb.o \
    obj/noui.o \
    obj/kernel.o \
    obj/pbkdf2.o \
    obj/scrypt_mine.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86_64.o \
obj/scrypt-jane.o

all: yacoind.exe

test check: test_yacoin.exe FORCE
test_yacoin.exe

obj/%.o: %.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86.o: scrypt-x86.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86_64.o: scrypt-x86_64.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

# This is needed to compile scrypt-jane with the DEFS_JANE we set before
obj/scrypt-jane.o: scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c
gcc -c $(xCXXFLAGS_SCRYPT_JANE) $(DEFS_JANE) -MMD -o $@ $<

yacoind.exe: $(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%)
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ $(LIBS)

TESTOBJS := $(patsubst test/%.cpp,obj-test/%.o,$(wildcard test/*.cpp))

obj-test/%.o: test/%.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(TESTDEFS) $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

test_bitcoin.exe: $(TESTOBJS) $(filter-out obj/init.o,$(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%))
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ -lboost_unit_test_framework $(LIBS)

clean:
rm yacoind.exe -f
rm obj/*.*
rm obj-test/*.*

FORCE:


EDIT 1: Fixed the clean section, you can't use del under mingw.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 01, 2013, 02:56:01 PM
Rise Nfactor RISE !

Here comes 3x longer confirmation time :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 01, 2013, 05:38:41 PM
I you are trying to build yacoind on windows you will find out a lot of errors because of the windows makefile (makefile.mingw) is untouched from novacoin, so the new scrypt version is not getting compiled (blame pocopoco).

I used this makefile ( added some comments for the changed lines) :
Code:
# Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
# Distributed under the MIT/X11 software license, see the accompanying
# file COPYING or http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php.

# No UPNP for this make file
USE_UPNP:=
USE_IPV6:=1

# Change the gcc version and boost version with the ones you have
# I used gcc 4.7 and boost 1.53
INCLUDEPATHS= \
 -I"/home/user/boost_1_53_0" \
 -I"/home/user/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" \
 -I"/home/user/openssl-1.0.1e/include"

LIBPATHS= \
 -L"/home/user/boost_1_53_0/stage/lib" \
 -L"/home/user/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" \
 -L"/home/user/openssl-1.0.1e"

LIBS= \
 -l boost_system-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_filesystem-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_program_options-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_thread-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_chrono-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l db_cxx \
 -l ssl \
 -l crypto

DEFS=-DWIN32 -D_WINDOWS -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE
DEBUGFLAGS=-g
CFLAGS=-static -mthreads -O2 -msse2 -w -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parameter $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DEFS) $(INCLUDEPATHS)

LDFLAGS=-Wl,--dynamicbase -Wl,--nxcompat

# This are the scrypt-jane specific parameters needed to compile you can use -msse2 if you don't have sse3
DEFS_JANE=-DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_CHOOSE_COMPILETIME -O3 -msse3

TESTDEFS = -DTEST_DATA_DIR=$(abspath test/data)

ifndef USE_UPNP
override USE_UPNP = -
endif
ifneq (${USE_UPNP}, -)
 INCLUDEPATHS += -I"C:\miniupnpc-1.6-mgw"
 LIBPATHS += -L"C:\miniupnpc-1.6-mgw"
 LIBS += -l miniupnpc -l iphlpapi
 DEFS += -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_UPNP=$(USE_UPNP)
endif

ifneq (${USE_IPV6}, -)
DEFS += -DUSE_IPV6=$(USE_IPV6)
endif

LIBS += -l kernel32 -l user32 -l gdi32 -l comdlg32 -l winspool -l winmm -l shell32 -l comctl32 -l ole32 -l oleaut32 -l uuid -l rpcrt4 -l advapi32 -l ws2_32 -l mswsock -l shlwapi

# TODO: make the mingw builds smarter about dependencies, like the linux/osx builds are
HEADERS = $(wildcard *.h)

# Notice I added the scrypt-jane obj at the end
OBJS= \
    obj/alert.o \
    obj/version.o \
    obj/checkpoints.o \
    obj/netbase.o \
    obj/addrman.o \
    obj/crypter.o \
    obj/key.o \
    obj/db.o \
    obj/init.o \
    obj/irc.o \
    obj/keystore.o \
    obj/main.o \
    obj/net.o \
    obj/protocol.o \
    obj/bitcoinrpc.o \
    obj/rpcdump.o \
    obj/rpcnet.o \
    obj/rpcmining.o \
    obj/rpcwallet.o \
    obj/rpcblockchain.o \
    obj/rpcrawtransaction.o \
    obj/script.o \
    obj/sync.o \
    obj/util.o \
    obj/wallet.o \
    obj/walletdb.o \
    obj/noui.o \
    obj/kernel.o \
    obj/pbkdf2.o \
    obj/scrypt_mine.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86_64.o \
obj/scrypt-jane.o

all: yacoind.exe

test check: test_yacoin.exe FORCE
test_yacoin.exe

obj/%.o: %.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86.o: scrypt-x86.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86_64.o: scrypt-x86_64.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

# This is needed to compile scrypt-jane with the DEFS_JANE we set before
obj/scrypt-jane.o: scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c
gcc -c $(xCXXFLAGS_SCRYPT_JANE) $(DEFS_JANE) -MMD -o $@ $<

yacoind.exe: $(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%)
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ $(LIBS)

TESTOBJS := $(patsubst test/%.cpp,obj-test/%.o,$(wildcard test/*.cpp))

obj-test/%.o: test/%.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(TESTDEFS) $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

test_bitcoin.exe: $(TESTOBJS) $(filter-out obj/init.o,$(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%))
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ -lboost_unit_test_framework $(LIBS)

clean:
rm yacoind.exe -f
rm obj/*.*
rm obj-test/*.*

FORCE:


EDIT 1: Fixed the clean section, you can't use del under mingw.



Very cool.  Thirtybird, were you able to get it to work with these settings?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 01, 2013, 06:47:23 PM
And don't forget to use the scrypt-jane from https://github.com/floodyberry/scrypt-jane , the one that comes with yacoin does not compile on mingw.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 01, 2013, 07:11:40 PM
Rise Nfactor RISE !

    "blocks" : 77242,
    "currentblocksize" : 1527,
    "currentblocktx" : 1,
    "difficulty" : 1.39981203,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "networkhashps" : 56745133, <- 56Mh the network hash is rising
    "pooledtx" : 1,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 9,
    "N" : 1024,
    "powreward" : 23.64000000


My Yacoin client still says Nfactor is 8 but according to my hashes it did go up. What's up with that?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 01, 2013, 10:48:50 PM
I you are trying to build yacoind on windows you will find out a lot of errors because of the windows makefile (makefile.mingw) is untouched from novacoin, so the new scrypt version is not getting compiled (blame pocopoco).

I used this makefile ( added some comments for the changed lines) :
Code:
# Copyright (c) 2009-2010 Satoshi Nakamoto
# Distributed under the MIT/X11 software license, see the accompanying
# file COPYING or http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php.

# No UPNP for this make file
USE_UPNP:=
USE_IPV6:=1

# Change the gcc version and boost version with the ones you have
# I used gcc 4.7 and boost 1.53
INCLUDEPATHS= \
 -I"/home/user/boost_1_53_0" \
 -I"/home/user/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" \
 -I"/home/user/openssl-1.0.1e/include"

LIBPATHS= \
 -L"/home/user/boost_1_53_0/stage/lib" \
 -L"/home/user/db-4.8.30.NC/build_unix" \
 -L"/home/user/openssl-1.0.1e"

LIBS= \
 -l boost_system-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_filesystem-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_program_options-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_thread-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l boost_chrono-mgw47-mt-s-1_53 \
 -l db_cxx \
 -l ssl \
 -l crypto

DEFS=-DWIN32 -D_WINDOWS -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE
DEBUGFLAGS=-g
CFLAGS=-static -mthreads -O2 -msse2 -w -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parameter $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DEFS) $(INCLUDEPATHS)

LDFLAGS=-Wl,--dynamicbase -Wl,--nxcompat

# This are the scrypt-jane specific parameters needed to compile you can use -msse2 if you don't have sse3
DEFS_JANE=-DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_CHOOSE_COMPILETIME -O3 -msse3

TESTDEFS = -DTEST_DATA_DIR=$(abspath test/data)

ifndef USE_UPNP
override USE_UPNP = -
endif
ifneq (${USE_UPNP}, -)
 INCLUDEPATHS += -I"C:\miniupnpc-1.6-mgw"
 LIBPATHS += -L"C:\miniupnpc-1.6-mgw"
 LIBS += -l miniupnpc -l iphlpapi
 DEFS += -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_UPNP=$(USE_UPNP)
endif

ifneq (${USE_IPV6}, -)
DEFS += -DUSE_IPV6=$(USE_IPV6)
endif

LIBS += -l kernel32 -l user32 -l gdi32 -l comdlg32 -l winspool -l winmm -l shell32 -l comctl32 -l ole32 -l oleaut32 -l uuid -l rpcrt4 -l advapi32 -l ws2_32 -l mswsock -l shlwapi

# TODO: make the mingw builds smarter about dependencies, like the linux/osx builds are
HEADERS = $(wildcard *.h)

# Notice I added the scrypt-jane obj at the end
OBJS= \
    obj/alert.o \
    obj/version.o \
    obj/checkpoints.o \
    obj/netbase.o \
    obj/addrman.o \
    obj/crypter.o \
    obj/key.o \
    obj/db.o \
    obj/init.o \
    obj/irc.o \
    obj/keystore.o \
    obj/main.o \
    obj/net.o \
    obj/protocol.o \
    obj/bitcoinrpc.o \
    obj/rpcdump.o \
    obj/rpcnet.o \
    obj/rpcmining.o \
    obj/rpcwallet.o \
    obj/rpcblockchain.o \
    obj/rpcrawtransaction.o \
    obj/script.o \
    obj/sync.o \
    obj/util.o \
    obj/wallet.o \
    obj/walletdb.o \
    obj/noui.o \
    obj/kernel.o \
    obj/pbkdf2.o \
    obj/scrypt_mine.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86.o \
    obj/scrypt-x86_64.o \
obj/scrypt-jane.o

all: yacoind.exe

test check: test_yacoin.exe FORCE
test_yacoin.exe

obj/%.o: %.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86.o: scrypt-x86.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

obj/scrypt-x86_64.o: scrypt-x86_64.S
$(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<

# This is needed to compile scrypt-jane with the DEFS_JANE we set before
obj/scrypt-jane.o: scrypt-jane/scrypt-jane.c
gcc -c $(xCXXFLAGS_SCRYPT_JANE) $(DEFS_JANE) -MMD -o $@ $<

yacoind.exe: $(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%)
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ $(LIBS)

TESTOBJS := $(patsubst test/%.cpp,obj-test/%.o,$(wildcard test/*.cpp))

obj-test/%.o: test/%.cpp $(HEADERS)
g++ -c $(TESTDEFS) $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $<

test_bitcoin.exe: $(TESTOBJS) $(filter-out obj/init.o,$(OBJS:obj/%=obj/%))
g++ $(CFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $(LIBPATHS) $^ -lboost_unit_test_framework $(LIBS)

clean:
rm yacoind.exe -f
rm obj/*.*
rm obj-test/*.*

FORCE:


EDIT 1: Fixed the clean section, you can't use del under mingw.



Very cool.  Thirtybird, were you able to get it to work with these settings?

Nope.  I wonder if all the people who are having success are compiling on Windows 7 x64 - I've been working on x86.  I even went so far as to pull WindMaster's code, then pull the new scrypt-jane from floodyberry and then put in cryptrol's exact makefile.mingw (changing library paths as needed), and I still got the exact same errors I was getting.  My makefile.mingw was nearly identical to the ones posted here, so when I get a chance, I'll spin up an x64 VM and run through the same process and see if the results are any different - there may be something wrong in the x86 library that is working in the x64 library.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 02, 2013, 02:23:44 AM
My Yacoin client still says Nfactor is 8 but according to my hashes it did go up. What's up with that?

Try pulling and rebuilding the latest source from my github repository.  There was a space of about a day or so after I first added Nfactor and N to the getmininginfo data that it was reporting only what Nfactor was when yacoind was last started.  I fixed that and pushed the fix to github a day or two later, but you may have snagged a copy while the bug was still there.  Alternatively, restart yacoind and it'll show the right info until the next N change near the end of June.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 02, 2013, 02:33:22 AM

Nope.  I wonder if all the people who are having success are compiling on Windows 7 x64 - I've been working on x86.  I even went so far as to pull WindMaster's code, then pull the new scrypt-jane from floodyberry and then put in cryptrol's exact makefile.mingw (changing library paths as needed), and I still got the exact same errors I was getting.  My makefile.mingw was nearly identical to the ones posted here, so when I get a chance, I'll spin up an x64 VM and run through the same process and see if the results are any different - there may be something wrong in the x86 library that is working in the x64 library.


UPDATE: apparently I just needed a good night sleep - yacoind.exe is done on x86 and x64.  Joe_Bauers - your github copy was not complete...  some files were different, and the big thing even I was missing was that the files in scrypt-jane (not just scrypt-jane/code) needed to be replaced.  Once that was done, my next make suceeded (both in DOS using mingw32-make and under msys using make).  I think it would be correct at this time to add floodyberry's latest update to the yacoin src and replace the makefile.mingw with cryptrol's.  

Once I get through the qt portion, I'll document my build steps so we can include them

EDIT: one thought I had would be to add "-static" to the LDFLAGS in makefile.mingw


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 02, 2013, 02:35:41 AM
My Yacoin client still says Nfactor is 8 but according to my hashes it did go up. What's up with that?

Try pulling and rebuilding the latest source from my github repository.  There was a space of about a day or so after I first added Nfactor and N to the getmininginfo data that it was reporting only what Nfactor was when yacoind was last started.  I fixed that and pushed the fix to github a day or two later, but you may have snagged a copy while the bug was still there.  Alternatively, restart yacoind and it'll show the right info until the next N change near the end of June.


I'm using the latest windows binaries. Can someone build another one with the bug fix in it?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 02, 2013, 04:51:17 AM

Nope.  I wonder if all the people who are having success are compiling on Windows 7 x64 - I've been working on x86.  I even went so far as to pull WindMaster's code, then pull the new scrypt-jane from floodyberry and then put in cryptrol's exact makefile.mingw (changing library paths as needed), and I still got the exact same errors I was getting.  My makefile.mingw was nearly identical to the ones posted here, so when I get a chance, I'll spin up an x64 VM and run through the same process and see if the results are any different - there may be something wrong in the x86 library that is working in the x64 library.


UPDATE: apparently I just needed a good night sleep - yacoind.exe is done on x86 and x64.  Joe_Bauers - your github copy was not complete...  some files were different, and the big thing even I was missing was that the files in scrypt-jane (not just scrypt-jane/code) needed to be replaced.  Once that was done, my next make suceeded (both in DOS using mingw32-make and under msys using make).  I think it would be correct at this time to add floodyberry's latest update to the yacoin src and replace the makefile.mingw with cryptrol's.  

Once I get through the qt portion, I'll document my build steps so we can include them

Great news!  Do you have  a list of the files that weren't complete? There were a few files that were never added by pocopoco, so maybe they need to be in YAC?


These were the commits I made:
Update scrypt-jane-romix-template.h …
Update scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h …
Update scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h …
Update scrypt-jane-mix_salsa-sse2.h …
Update scrypt-jane-mix_salsa-avx.h …
Update scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-ssse3.h …
Update scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-sse2.h …
Update scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-avx.h …
Update scrypt-jane-salsa.h …
Update scrypt-jane-chacha.h …

This is YAC:
scrypt-jane-chacha.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-hash.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-hash_keccak.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-hash_sha256.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-avx.h   a month ago   scrypt-jane chacha added [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-sse2.h   a month ago   scrypt-jane chacha added [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-ssse3.h   a month ago   scrypt-jane chacha added [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha.h   a month ago   scrypt-jane chacha added [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa-avx.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa-sse2.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-pbkdf2.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-portable.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-romix-template.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-romix.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-salsa.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]
scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h   a month ago   initial release [pocopoco]


And this is floodyberry's repo, so there is definitely some stuff missing:
scrypt-conf.h         9 months ago   checkin! [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-chacha.h      14 days ago   check if the cpu supports the impl before saying it's available [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash.h      8 months ago   add Keccak256/512 support [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash_blake256.h   6 months ago   accidentally left 'G' defined [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash_blake512.h   6 months ago   accidentally left 'G' defined [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash_keccak.h   8 months ago   give keccak one unrolled round [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash_sha256.h   9 months ago   checkin! [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash_sha512.h   9 months ago   checkin! [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-hash_skein512.h   9 months ago   checkin! [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-avx.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-sse2.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha-ssse3.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_chacha.h   9 months ago   checkin! [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa-avx.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa-sse2.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa.h      9 months ago   checkin! [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa64-avx.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa64-sse2.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa64-ssse3.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-mix_salsa64.h   6 months ago   add proof of concept salsa6420/8 mixer [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-pbkdf2.h      9 months ago   zero out memory with derived secrets after use [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-portable-x86.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-portable.h      6 months ago   allow [64,128,256,512] byte block sizes and typedef the block element… [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-romix-basic.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-romix-template.h   14 days ago   fixes so it will compile and run under mingw [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-romix.h      6 months ago   add proof of concept salsa6420/8 mixer [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-salsa.h      14 days ago   check if the cpu supports the impl before saying it's available [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-salsa64.h      14 days ago   check if the cpu supports the impl before saying it's available [floodyberry]
scrypt-jane-test-vectors.h   6 months ago   add proof of concept salsa6420/8 mixer [floodyberry]


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 02, 2013, 05:52:31 PM

Nope.  I wonder if all the people who are having success are compiling on Windows 7 x64 - I've been working on x86.  I even went so far as to pull WindMaster's code, then pull the new scrypt-jane from floodyberry and then put in cryptrol's exact makefile.mingw (changing library paths as needed), and I still got the exact same errors I was getting.  My makefile.mingw was nearly identical to the ones posted here, so when I get a chance, I'll spin up an x64 VM and run through the same process and see if the results are any different - there may be something wrong in the x86 library that is working in the x64 library.


UPDATE: apparently I just needed a good night sleep - yacoind.exe is done on x86 and x64.  Joe_Bauers - your github copy was not complete...  some files were different, and the big thing even I was missing was that the files in scrypt-jane (not just scrypt-jane/code) needed to be replaced.  Once that was done, my next make suceeded (both in DOS using mingw32-make and under msys using make).  I think it would be correct at this time to add floodyberry's latest update to the yacoin src and replace the makefile.mingw with cryptrol's.  

Once I get through the qt portion, I'll document my build steps so we can include them

Great news!  Do you have  a list of the files that weren't complete? There were a few files that were never added by pocopoco, so maybe they need to be in YAC?



I do not - I was troubleshooting one compile error I was getting in scrypt-jane-romix-template.h, and it was giving me one line number, and when I compared it to floodyberry's, it was 10 lines off.  There was some other commented out lines in the file as well so I decided to just use his repository without looking at the rest of the differences.  Sorry mate.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JimmyFL on June 02, 2013, 06:01:08 PM
Ok guys, I really need to cash out some money "right now" (max 3-4 days)  :-[

So don't take my 11000yac sell like a panic dumping. I really would like to keep yacoins for further investment, but there is no other way for me right now  :'(

Btw lets make yac at least 0.0005BTC (or 0.005BTC?  ;))


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on June 02, 2013, 06:03:25 PM
wrong day to cash out, you could take 20% more day or two ago + bitcoin is some 10% down today.

I'd take those from you but I'm bit short with btc at the moment.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 02, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
We YAC cowboys are cool, it's ok. Good luck, I hope you can get back in soon.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JimmyFL on June 02, 2013, 06:08:58 PM
I was AFK for 4 days... >:( I placed my order to 4.6 . I'm going to wait for few days (max 3-4) and then bye bye  :-\
Btw I'm keeping like 10000yac for the future ;) (and still mining nonstop with 16 xeon cores)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 02, 2013, 07:22:35 PM

I do not - I was troubleshooting one compile error I was getting in scrypt-jane-romix-template.h, and it was giving me one line number, and when I compared it to floodyberry's, it was 10 lines off.  There was some other commented out lines in the file as well so I decided to just use his repository without looking at the rest of the differences.  Sorry mate.

Damn - I wish I didn't waste the time to surgically add the changes from floodyberry to the existing YAC files as it seems a copy/paste of the full repo is what works. Meh  8)


WM - I git cloned YAC, removed all of the existing scrypt-jane-master libs and replaced them with all of floodyberry's.  Everything compiled and runs fine in Linux, and from what
Thirtybird mentioned above, Windows as well.  I'm not sure why pocopoco didn't include all of scrypt-jane-master into YAC, but it appears that by removing some files, he may have
screwed up some dependencies, or something.   I propose you check it out and if you think everything looks good, to add all of scrypt-jane-master to YACoin.  


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 02, 2013, 07:35:15 PM
Looks like he wanted to save space and removed SHA512, Blake and Skein. Why Salsa64 was removed if Salsa is needed is beyond me.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wesleyrbk on June 03, 2013, 01:49:30 AM
High rollers wanting to buy YAC on bter. A 14k order already went through and there is about 30k high buy orders.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 03, 2013, 02:59:53 AM
I think my wallet generated some coins today. (0.826113)  :D

Transaction: 0b5f4d2b64fd5c03e39ba0158f947dfefa2ff1b48c01b6244045947ca293dc41

PS: Looks like it might be 4 weeks exactly from when you get some coins in your wallet that the coins start to generate?



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: R_Lem on June 03, 2013, 03:11:45 AM
colors are too soft though

Heres a psd file so anyone can modify the colours, this one also has slightly stronger colours to start with :

https://mega.co.nz/#!VhYm3bbT!HluFg2Gner_jFDWU4lDII2RHKg1XtvWx5CAqrb0LkCk

Example : http://imgur.com/scPsMZi & http://imgur.com/n5oCmJO

http://i.imgur.com/w10atS3.png


Looks nice and I like it better than the yak head. Prefer the Blue/Black/White.
It is close to Yen though. Maybe too close?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on June 03, 2013, 10:18:19 AM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

Hi Peers, I have built a new winx64 binary based on the latest GIT repo and turned on the SSE & AVX optimizations by adding this option -DCPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS.

The complete options for gcc is:
Quote
DEFINES       = -DUNICODE -D__INSURE__ -DQT_GUI -DBOOST_INTERPROCESS_HAS_WINDOWS_KERNEL_BOOTTIME -DBOOST_USE_WINDOWS_H -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_THREAD_BUILD_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE -DBOOST_NO_ANSI_APIS -DCPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DUSE_UPNP=1 -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_IPV6=1 -DWIN32 -D_MT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_NEEDS_QMAIN

Try this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g2nd-winx64.zip

For viruses or malwae precaution, please scan it by yourself.  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 03, 2013, 11:52:38 AM
Can somebody make a better linux cpuminer?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: cryptrol on June 03, 2013, 01:23:42 PM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

Hi Peers, I have built a new winx64 binary based on the latest GIT repo and turned on the SSE & AVX optimizations by adding this option -DCPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS.

The complete options for gcc is:
Quote
DEFINES       = -DUNICODE -D__INSURE__ -DQT_GUI -DBOOST_INTERPROCESS_HAS_WINDOWS_KERNEL_BOOTTIME -DBOOST_USE_WINDOWS_H -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_THREAD_BUILD_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE -DBOOST_NO_ANSI_APIS -DCPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DUSE_UPNP=1 -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_IPV6=1 -DWIN32 -D_MT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_NEEDS_QMAIN

Try this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g2nd-winx64.zip

For viruses or malwae precaution, please scan it by yourself.  ;)

What gcc version are you using ?
My binaries compiled with gcc 4.7 crash while calling a library libstdc++6 if I recall correctly.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: hanzac on June 03, 2013, 01:47:40 PM

What gcc version are you using ?
My binaries compiled with gcc 4.7 crash while calling a library libstdc++6 if I recall correctly.

C:\mingw64>gcc --version
gcc (rubenvb-4.7.4-release) 4.7.3


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 03, 2013, 07:09:19 PM
Thanks Hanzac. Did you happen to put the network hashrate command in?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 03, 2013, 10:12:31 PM
So anybody doing anything to update YACoin?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 04, 2013, 03:09:43 AM
Thanks Hanzac. Did you happen to put the network hashrate command in?


Yes, getmininginfo works fine.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 04, 2013, 04:32:24 AM
Thanks Hanzac. Did you happen to put the network hashrate command in?


Yes, getmininginfo works fine.

Sweet. Thanks a bunch.  :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 04, 2013, 05:42:04 AM
Difficulty dropped below 1 and block reward over 25. I see mining as viable option for smaller computers soon.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: paulthetafy on June 04, 2013, 06:41:20 AM
Have there been any speed improvements in CPUMiner done recently?  I'm still using the first version


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 04, 2013, 07:04:34 AM
Anyone happen to know the formula to figure out how many coins per hash rate you can get?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 04, 2013, 07:37:01 AM
I took a look at Litecoin mining calculators. http://litecoinminingcalculator.com/

Seconds to find block = (diff * 2^32) / (hashrate )
Coins per day = (24 * 3600) / seconds per block * block reward

Yacoin block reward is 25 at diff 1. I dont know the exact formula yet.

5Kh/s = 2.5 YACs per day


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 04, 2013, 09:33:11 AM
Um.. my hash rate just got cut in half again. The next N change was supposed to be on the 25th wasn't it?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 04, 2013, 09:38:13 AM
Um.. my hash rate just got cut in half again. The next N change was supposed to be on the 25th wasn't it?

N is still 1024:

Quote
./yacoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 79324,
    "currentblocksize" : 2609,
    "currentblocktx" : 2,
    "difficulty" : 0.96756334,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : 8,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "networkhashps" : 44056749,
    "pooledtx" : 2,
    "testnet" : false,
    "Nfactor" : 9,
    "N" : 1024,
    "powreward" : 25.14000000
}

If your hash rate dropped in half without N changing, you probably have some sort of other local problem happening.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 04, 2013, 09:45:49 AM
My bad. Video encoding was messing it up.  :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 04, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
How is GPU development going ? Anyone succeeded in going above NFactor 12 ?
The overall hashrate is increasing and I wonder how many GPU's are hitting the network ...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Mushoz on June 04, 2013, 11:07:34 AM
What kind of hashrate can you expect from an AMD 8350 with the current N-value with cpuminerd using AVX?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 04, 2013, 02:39:09 PM
How is GPU development going ? Anyone succeeded in going above NFactor 12 ?
The overall hashrate is increasing and I wonder how many GPU's are hitting the network ...

I will try Nfactor 12 this weekend. I think it's achievable although maybe slower.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 04, 2013, 03:17:32 PM
Geee.. so only a few people have a GPU miner for this?

And how fast can a GPU run?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 04, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
Geee.. so only a few people have a GPU miner for this?

And how fast can a GPU run?

http://yacexplorer.tk/graphs.htm Goto the tech info.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sevenseals on June 04, 2013, 03:44:18 PM
Can someone make a browser miner (like bitcoinplus.com for bitcoins)? It is very suitable for CPU mining. And it would be a good way for the populace to go in yacoins.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on June 05, 2013, 12:42:53 AM
I've seen posts by several folks recently that are starting to mine yacoin on CPUs are running into very disappointing returns. Especially for a coin as new as yacoin, this could be an issue that hinders adoption. I think that possibly the N adjustments have been coming a bit too fast (or the block reward is too little) too early on. I see the difficulty is continuing to drop after the last N increase, but I wonder if that will be enough. The coin still only has a circulation of a bit over 3MM with about half of that being amassed in the top 10 addresses. Yacoin's unique CPU potential aside, the viability of any new currency lies in its ability to be distributed initially in as wide and efficient a manner as possible, rewarding early adopters but also encouraging newcomers to adopt it as the monetary base expands. I fear we may be turning some folks off to the coin. The expectation is that these folks not think they're becoming "rich", but more get more of a reward than 10 cents worth of coin for mining it on their CPU for a day.

This issue has two possible solutions: tweaking the coin parameters down the road a bit, or continuing to work to increase per-coin valuation through other means. The first could backfire, however. What is everyone's opinion on this?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 05, 2013, 12:50:39 AM
Yeah. The N changes were too fast. If someone were to make another coin based on this but have the N changes like once every 3-6 months it would work out much better for everyone.

That would make the most "perfect" alt coin in existance IMHO.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 05, 2013, 01:28:23 AM
Bunch of progressively wacky ideas:

* Be patient and don't get rushed before N has properly hardened and we learn about YAC's long term balance.
* Getting YAC listed on BTC-e so hopefully it becomes profitable.
* A bundle with a profitable GPU alt so people gets used to mine both, regardless of which one is profitable.
* A dual wallet that GPU mines LTC or something and CPU mines YAC.
* Do nothing if transaction speed is not a problem and there's no risk of a 51% attack, since YACs are cheap to buy or trade for anyway.

Ok, maybe the last one isn't that crazy.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 05, 2013, 01:48:27 AM
I've seen posts by several folks recently that are starting to mine yacoin on CPUs are running into very disappointing returns. Especially for a coin as new as yacoin, this could be an issue that hinders adoption. I think that possibly the N adjustments have been coming a bit too fast (or the block reward is too little) too early on. I see the difficulty is continuing to drop after the last N increase, but I wonder if that will be enough. The coin still only has a circulation of a bit over 3MM with about half of that being amassed in the top 10 addresses. Yacoin's unique CPU potential aside, the viability of any new currency lies in its ability to be distributed initially in as wide and efficient a manner as possible, rewarding early adopters but also encouraging newcomers to adopt it as the monetary base expands. I fear we may be turning some folks off to the coin. The expectation is that these folks not think they're becoming "rich", but more get more of a reward than 10 cents worth of coin for mining it on their CPU for a day.

I think the problem probably doesn't have anything to do with what N is or what hash rates people are seeing.  If everyone vacated mining YAC and left it stranded at a high difficulty with block times measured in hours, as has happened with a bunch of the other scamcoin pump'n'dumps lately, then it would indeed be a problem.  But I think what we're seeing is that interest in mining YAC is high, hash rates are staying up, and tend to hover right in the range that power costs for CPU mining remain at break-even or slightly profitable.  That's probably what should tend to be expected for CPU'ish coins (until someone releases a GPU implementation that actually performs well).  If we were in trouble with the YAC parameters, it would be something like the N increases outpacing the amount of hash rate people are committing to it and stranding us with really high difficulty and massive spacing between blocks.  So far YAC has proven to be resistant to that effect that has crippled most other recently released altcoins.

If the block rate is X, and the reward is Y, then the amount of people mining it (or more accurately, the amount of hash power mining it) will self-regulate to a state of breaking even or slightly profitable with the block rewards being split up among a large enough number of people (or units of hash power) to maintain that state of equilibrium.  I think this would remain true regardless of what N is, or even if N were hard-coded to a fixed value.  In this case there aren't really other good profitable choices for people to point their CPU's at, so it tends to however close to break-even.

If the coin parameters were changed to increase the reward to make it more appealing to new entrants that have only a small amount of CPU power, that will just drop the value of the coin, and devalue all the YAC anyone is already holding.  That's sorta what some portion of the Elacoin miners wanted to do, modify the parameters to jack up their rewards, and I pretty vocally opposed it (as I do hold some ELC and occasionally point a GPU or two at mining ELC just for the fun of it).  Fortunately they did not significantly change the block reward mechanism in the end.

So I think the problem isn't that N is too high or that CPU's yield a certain amount of hash rate for a particular value of N.  That affects everyone mining the coin and so far, it appears tends to close the gaps between CPU and GPU mining (contrary to some early people saying GPU's would widen the gap at high values of N, which doesn't appear to be the case).  Instead, the problem is that the amount people are willing to pay for YAC is low right now, thus the value is low.  That itself isn't really controlled by any of the parameters of the coin, it's more controlled by less enthusiasm among cryptocurrency speculators lately.


This issue has two possible solutions: tweaking the coin parameters down the road a bit, or continuing to work to increase per-coin valuation through other means. The first could backfire, however. What is everyone's opinion on this?

I think changing the coin parameters is probably a very poor idea.  There's nothing really wrong with any of them that I can see.  Changing parameters and hard-forking the blockchain with an incompatible client, with changes that would tend to devalue the YAC that anyone is already holding, may be a difficult proposition for anyone already holding YAC, with other unintended consequences.  Plus it doesn't really reinforce confidence in a coin if they have to periodically change parameters, particular parameters that will devalue existing coins.  There's a good chance here that YAC may be one of the only recently released altcoins that does *not* need a hard fork to change parameters.

Note that the N changes are becoming farther and farther apart, so there's plenty of time for things to reach equilibrium between them.  Block rate will probably be at the target rate long before the next N change.  A few more N changes down the road and they'll feel like a pretty rare occurence with just minor short-term increases in block rate until things re-equalize.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 05, 2013, 01:57:11 AM
Yeah. The N changes were too fast.

I would phrase it that the N changes were fast during the first month of the coin's existence, but I wouldn't say it was "too" fast.  Too fast would mean, at least to me, that the coin got stranded at a high difficulty with an exodus of miners leaving it stuck that way due to extremely long block intervals.  YAC retargetting difficulty on every block does help with that issue somewhat though, but only to an extent.  So, I'd say YAC's parameters happened to work out fairly well, relative to almost every other altcoin released recently.


If someone were to make another coin based on this but have the N changes like once every 3-6 months it would work out much better for everyone.

If someone released a clone of YAC that had the same initial N=32 for 3-6 months, there's a very good chance I would end up owning the majority of the coins minted at that value of N!  Generally it would be a bad idea.  It was essential that N raise fast at first since it started so ridiculously low.  It could easily be true that more than one party implemented scrypt+chacha in FPGA's for N=32 and achieved massive hash rates, and I was just the only one that said anything about it.

Anyway, we're already at a point where N is remaining static for upwards of 3 weeks this time around.  There's only going to be 2 changes of N in 2014.  A single change of N in 2015, 2016 and 2017, then the next change of N is in 2020.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Eli0t on June 05, 2013, 01:59:54 AM
low hash rate values aren't exciting for the normal user, they might mine it for a day or two and then give up leaving it to the server farms

or maybe their just unlucky and decide to mine on a day after an N change when difficulty hasnt dropped enough

either lots of pre knowledge or lots of resources needed. what can you buy in YAC that would need you to buy into the currency


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on June 05, 2013, 02:13:46 AM
If there is one coin that requires patience and long term approach it's YAC.

There's no pumps and dumps so no way to profit on that one.

It's hard to mine lot of it so there's no big money to be made from that one too.

It's sit and wait until services round it are built that will push the price up. It's obvious right now that it isn't the coin where you bank in a week unless you catch some of rare dips and sell for more later.

But these services are needed definitely as other coins that were mined by gpu miners are promoted and pushed on exchanges (for example, cryptsy could easily be called dgcexchange.com as it's almost official coin there) so there's no lot of interest for yac trading right now. It's a shame really as it beats all of them easily but that's how it is, most folks in crypto community are gpu miners so they're pushing the one they have resources to mine, it's not much about coin design.

But anyway, I can't understand any crypto investor that doesn't have few thousands of yac in his portfolio. Unless cryptos all finish in oblivion I can't see this one not exploding at some time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on June 05, 2013, 02:51:54 AM
Wind master, how big job would be to make YAC being merge mined with BTC or LTC?

Someone already mentioned it earlier and I think that would really be a game changer for this coin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 05, 2013, 02:53:59 AM
Wind master, how big job would be to make YAC being merge mined with BTC or LTC?

Someone already mentioned it earlier and I think that would really be a game changer for this coin.

There isn't a way to merge-mine an scrypt+chacha coin in parallel with an SHA256 coin (BTC) or scrypt+salsa (LTC).  The hashing algorithms are all different.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: seleme on June 05, 2013, 03:13:06 AM
arrgh, shame


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 05, 2013, 04:05:53 AM
I'd like to two my $.02 in here as someone who has mined YAC since day 1 (I too missed the launch by 8 hours) with roughly the same machines until today. 

Even through the various N changes, over a period of time, the only variance in your earnings is going to come down your relative hashpower compared to the network (and everyone is at the same N factor as you are!), and luck.  During an N change, confirmations and the finding of blocks are going to take a bit longer because the difficulty is high relative to the network hash rate, but it adjusts quickly, and gets back in line over a couple days.

Low hash rates are very un-sexy but still can bring in the coins.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: erpbridge on June 05, 2013, 04:17:10 AM
General question: I have an i5 2550k, and an i7 3770. Both are profitable per calculators mining most of the gpu minable coins. I usually let them just run cpuminer, and mine on an LTC pool all the time, racking up a little here and there.

Being Yacoin is optomized for CPU mining and NO GPU mining, would I be better off mining a GPU coin with these CPUs... or is Yacoin more profitable all things being equal for these CPUs? There just aren't any calculators that would answer this one way or another.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 05, 2013, 02:57:52 PM
General question: I have an i5 2550k, and an i7 3770. Both are profitable per calculators mining most of the gpu minable coins. I usually let them just run cpuminer, and mine on an LTC pool all the time, racking up a little here and there.

Being Yacoin is optomized for CPU mining and NO GPU mining, would I be better off mining a GPU coin with these CPUs... or is Yacoin more profitable all things being equal for these CPUs? There just aren't any calculators that would answer this one way or another.

Taking into account these numbers:
Currently, for my i5 2500k, the hashrate for LTC is double what it is for YAC

To compare their values to BTC, I did the following:
The current difficulty for LTC is 604.6 (as taken from allchains.info) and the current highest bid price on bter.com is .02397
The current difficulty for YAC is 0.851425 (as taken from the YAC wallet) and the current highest bid price on bter.com is .000382

The LTC difficulty is 710 time higher than YAC's.
The LTC value is 62.75 times higher than YAC's.
The hashrate for LTC is 2 times highen than YAC's
This tells me that YAC should make you 5.5x (710 / 62.75 / 2) more than mining LTC on those CPU's

(Doing it based on network hashrate may be more accurate, so I've included both)
The current network hashrate for LTC is 17,633 MH/sec (as taken from my LTC pool) and the current highest bid price on bter.com is .02397
The current mean network hashrate for YAC is 44 MH/sec(as taken from http://yacexplorer.tk/graphs.htm) and the current highest bid price on bter.com is .000382

The LTC hashrate is 400 time higher than YAC's.
The LTC value is 62.75 times higher than YAC's.
The hashrate for LTC is 2 times highen than YAC's
This tells me that YAC should make you 3.2x (400 / 62.75 / 2) more than mining LTC on those CPU's

I may have really simplified this or my logic may be really wrong, but I couldn't think of any other way to estimate this other than running two identical machines mining different coins for a period of time, and then sell the results and compare...  Ain't nobody got time for that!

EDIT: apparently, hashrate for YAC is half of what it is for LTC for my machine - updated values above
EDIT2: added calcs based on network hash rate


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wesleyrbk on June 06, 2013, 01:55:44 AM
Did you add the N value in your calculations?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 06, 2013, 02:45:45 AM
Did you add the N value in your calculations?

N is irrelevant as everyone is using the same value for N - earnings do not go down when N goes up.
 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 06, 2013, 03:59:48 PM
Looks like he wanted to save space and removed SHA512, Blake and Skein. Why Salsa64 was removed if Salsa is needed is beyond me.

I see what happened now - if you run clean project in QT Creator, it removes those files.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - Unofficial client fork
Post by: sunnyl on June 07, 2013, 12:16:05 PM
I compiled a version of win64 from windmaster's git branch, if you have 64-bit windows installed, you can try it.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g32a928e-winx64.zip

Hi Peers, I have built a new winx64 binary based on the latest GIT repo and turned on the SSE & AVX optimizations by adding this option -DCPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS.

The complete options for gcc is:
Quote
DEFINES       = -DUNICODE -D__INSURE__ -DQT_GUI -DBOOST_INTERPROCESS_HAS_WINDOWS_KERNEL_BOOTTIME -DBOOST_USE_WINDOWS_H -DBOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB -DBOOST_THREAD_BUILD_LIB -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE -DBOOST_NO_ANSI_APIS -DCPU_X86_FORCE_INTRINSICS -DSCRYPT_CHACHA -DSCRYPT_KECCAK512 -DUSE_UPNP=1 -DSTATICLIB -DUSE_IPV6=1 -DWIN32 -D_MT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_NEEDS_QMAIN

Try this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin-qt-0.4.0.0-g2nd-winx64.zip

For viruses or malwae precaution, please scan it by yourself.  ;)

Used, Working well.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 07, 2013, 01:07:01 PM
We need a place where people can buy and sell real items for yacoins :)

Stuff like steam accounts, games & whatnot.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 07, 2013, 01:52:53 PM
We need a place where people can buy and sell real items for yacoins :)

Stuff like steam accounts, games & whatnot.

Currently, I think you can go to marketplace of yacointalk.com/.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: nonameo on June 07, 2013, 04:15:05 PM
We need a place where people can buy and sell real items for yacoins :)

Stuff like steam accounts, games & whatnot.

shameless plug for my marketplace thread :P its not perfect/ideal and it's not exclusively for yacoins but, at least its something. hopefully if there's enough traffic then everyone will benefit :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: turtles on June 07, 2013, 05:04:57 PM
couple questions . .

Is yacoin still a secret Linux wizard club?

do the windows binaries at yacoin.org work or is that bs? if bs is someone working on a windows build?
if not, will a Linux VM work for mining? all hardware I have access to requires windows ???

have you considered changing the name of this coin to CSWCMWLNHRFAWCoin confusingsowecanminewithlownetworkhashrateforawhilecoin?

since this is cpu mined only I feel like ALOT more people would get involved long term if it were easier, I know I would.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 07, 2013, 05:31:14 PM
couple questions . .

Is yacoin still a secret Linux wizard club?

do the windows binaries at yacoin.org work or is that bs? if bs is someone working on a windows build?
if not, will a Linux VM work for mining? all hardware I have access to requires windows ???

have you considered changing the name of this coin to CSWCMWLNHRFAWCoin confusingsowecanminewithlownetworkhashrateforawhilecoin?

since this is cpu mined only I feel like ALOT more people would get involved long term if it were easier, I know I would.

There are windows binaries for both the miner and the client, and YACoin isn't confusing at all.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 07, 2013, 05:50:23 PM
couple questions . .

Is yacoin still a secret Linux wizard club?

do the windows binaries at yacoin.org work or is that bs? if bs is someone working on a windows build?
if not, will a Linux VM work for mining? all hardware I have access to requires windows ???

have you considered changing the name of this coin to CSWCMWLNHRFAWCoin confusingsowecanminewithlownetworkhashrateforawhilecoin?

since this is cpu mined only I feel like ALOT more people would get involved long term if it were easier, I know I would.


unfortunately it appears the guy who set up yacoin.org disappeared and isn't really updating his site.

Here are some links to the posts with the windows executables I am recommending:

Windows CPU Miner : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201027.0
Windows 64 binary (compiled by hanzac): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2356931#msg2356931


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: turtles on June 07, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
couple questions . .

Is yacoin still a secret Linux wizard club?

do the windows binaries at yacoin.org work or is that bs? if bs is someone working on a windows build?
if not, will a Linux VM work for mining? all hardware I have access to requires windows ???

have you considered changing the name of this coin to CSWCMWLNHRFAWCoin confusingsowecanminewithlownetworkhashrateforawhilecoin?

since this is cpu mined only I feel like ALOT more people would get involved long term if it were easier, I know I would.


unfortunately it appears the guy who set up yacoin.org disappeared and isn't really updating his site.

Here are some links to the posts with the windows executables I am recommending:

Windows CPU Miner : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201027.0
Windows 64 binary (compiled by hanzac): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg2356931#msg2356931


Thank you kind sir, don't know why I couldn't find either of those threads


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 07, 2013, 09:54:57 PM
Looks like the network hashrate is steady at 40Mhash. Anyone happen to know when the POS blocks are due to pop up in the wallets?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 07, 2013, 10:14:15 PM
Looks like the network hashrate is steady at 40Mhash. Anyone happen to know when the POS blocks are due to pop up in the wallets?

soon™


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: liteuser on June 08, 2013, 01:17:49 PM
Looks like the network hashrate is steady at 40Mhash. Anyone happen to know when the POS blocks are due to pop up in the wallets?

soon™

First POS today:

http://yacexplorer.tk/block/683ae9d8b201e2ffd9c0b509f7ef053d07fe49e61dbbc7b5931bc5c28d2131a7


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 08, 2013, 01:26:33 PM
What exactly is this PoS ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 08, 2013, 01:35:12 PM
What exactly is this PoS ?

Proof of Stake, basically you get a small percentage as a bonus to the coins you're already holding for more than 30 days.

some more info:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0)
http://www.ppcoin.org/static/ppcoin-paper.pdf (http://www.ppcoin.org/static/ppcoin-paper.pdf)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 08, 2013, 01:46:07 PM
have some body have already got Proof of Stake?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 08, 2013, 02:14:56 PM
have some body have already got Proof of Stake?

yes, for example:
http://yacexplorer.tk/block/683ae9d8b201e2ffd9c0b509f7ef053d07fe49e61dbbc7b5931bc5c28d2131a7 (http://yacexplorer.tk/block/683ae9d8b201e2ffd9c0b509f7ef053d07fe49e61dbbc7b5931bc5c28d2131a7)

address Y2e1VP9ZpwYCbVMk7RRhGDLwRKyuQwjzGQ staked 357.59 YAC and got 1.45 YAC as interest after 30 days of holding.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AGD on June 08, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Client need to be mining (and therefore without encryption) to earn the POS?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 08, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
How do you stake yacoins?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 08, 2013, 03:14:49 PM
Client need to be mining (and therefore without encryption) to earn the POS?

you could use encryption, see link below

How do you stake yacoins?

it's automagic, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 08, 2013, 03:18:27 PM
Pretty great.

So If I hold 5000 coins for 30 days, how big will the PoS be?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 08, 2013, 03:45:31 PM
Pretty great.

So If I hold 5000 coins for 30 days, how big will the PoS be?

PoS reward is 0.05 coins per CoinYear, so if you stake 5000 coins with age of 30 days, it yields 150`000 CoinDays, which is ~410.96 CoinYears. 410.96 * 0.05 = ~20.55 coins.

So the formula is:
Code:
interest = (BALANCE - RESERVED_BALANCE) * DAYS_HELD / 365 * 0.05

You can choose to reserve some of your balance and not stake it (because it's unspendable for quite a long time when you stake it) and DAYS_HELD can be between 30 and 90 days.

EDIT: the actual formula in the source is a bit different, but this is a pretty close approximation.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on June 08, 2013, 04:05:44 PM
Yup, started to get stake rewards on my wallet. Much higher than I envisioned it being too, yay!

If you encrypt your wallet (which you should)  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0 is helpful for anyone interested in how to generate stake. I just have a yacoind that runs on a linux server I have so that it doesn't rely on my windows workstation being up.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 08, 2013, 04:11:18 PM
Yup, started to get stake rewards on my wallet. Much higher than I envisioned it being too, yay!

If you encrypt your wallet (which you should)  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187714.0 is helpful for anyone interested in how to generate stake. I just have a yacoind that runs on a linux server I have so that it doesn't rely on my windows workstation being up.

Looking forward to getting my first PoS reward in approx. 10 days, a whopping 0.000188 YAC! :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on June 09, 2013, 08:34:23 AM
I have a question regarding POS. So for the amount that is currently being staked, so do you receive POS payments each day after 30 days? Or was the estimate of 20.55 coins for 5000 over the course of a month? Or what? I am confused how often and how much you get payed for POS. Is it a slow continual thing or does it only appear in large chunks? Is the estimate given for the entire year or just the period that they are staked or just one block? See I know people have explained how to receive POS but nobody has explained really WHAT POS functions like.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 09, 2013, 09:18:42 AM
I have a question regarding POS. So for the amount that is currently being staked, so do you receive POS payments each day after 30 days? Or was the estimate of 20.55 coins for 5000 over the course of a month? Or what? I am confused how often and how much you get payed for POS. Is it a slow continual thing or does it only appear in large chunks? Is the estimate given for the entire year or just the period that they are staked or just one block? See I know people have explained how to receive POS but nobody has explained really WHAT POS functions like.

You stake some CoinYears, they get consumed and you get a few coins. So if you have only one unspent input in your wallet that is 5000 YAC AND it's at least 30 days old AND you're PoS mining, you will LOSE all you accumulated CoinYears (by spending the only input you have) but in turn you can REWARD yourself in the same block a given number of coins as an interest, in addition to the old coins being sent back to yourself. So in this case you get back your 5000 YAC, but with 0 CoinYears (they're brand new coins!) and ~20.55 YAC as interest (also new coins). And now you wait another 30 days to be eligible for PoS block with 5020.55 YAC input and (5020.55 + 20.63) YAC output.

It works just like your bank account interest IRL, you get 5% interest per year with monthly* payments.

EDIT
*) Only if you have your client running at the time some of your inputs reaches 30 days of age. In reality, it can be delayed by up to 90 days without you "losing" anything, see below.

However, if you don't launch your YAC wallet at least once every 90 days, you will be losing eligibility for some money. For example, you log in afer 120 days and you have an unspent input 120 days old. There's a cap in the GetProofOfStakeReward function of 90 days, so you will only get interest as if this input was only 90 days old, not the full 120. Hope that made it clear.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: aso118 on June 09, 2013, 10:01:02 AM
I believe YAC is a direct branch from NVC and I believe NVC is preparing to change how their POS reward is calculated on June 20th.  Has there been any discussion, or thoughts, on changing how YAC POS?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 09, 2013, 10:36:18 AM
Is there a way to generate vanity addresses for YAC?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 09, 2013, 12:56:55 PM
I believe YAC is a direct branch from NVC and I believe NVC is preparing to change how their POS reward is calculated on June 20th.  Has there been any discussion, or thoughts, on changing how YAC POS?

None that I know of.

Is there a way to generate vanity addresses for YAC?

Yes, just use the -X switch in vanitygen. ;)

EDIT: I've just generated this one: YACoinJ2PXNo6Q7rSMkZb5shaf82Wdbu5r (http://yacexplorer.tk/address/YACoinJ2PXNo6Q7rSMkZb5shaf82Wdbu5r) ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 10, 2013, 09:04:41 AM
Network hash rate is almost to 60Mh/s. 50% hash rate increase in a couple weeks isn't too bad.

 :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 10, 2013, 09:06:10 AM
Network hash rate is almost to 60Mh/s. 50% hash rate increase in a couple weeks isn't too bad.

 :)
That's good to know!
Too bad YAC threads are almost never on the first page  :'(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 10, 2013, 09:14:41 AM
Yacoin needs an active developer community and marketing team. Where everybody does a little job of promoting/improving the coin :)

Like I did for example with my signature.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 10, 2013, 09:16:08 AM
Yacoin needs an active developer community and marketing team. Where everybody does a little job of promoting/improving the coin :)

Like I did for example with my signature.
I created a thread on a big forum (HackForums)
If you're interested in reading it, here's the link: http://www.hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3505553
Only registered users can read threads though.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AGD on June 10, 2013, 09:30:27 AM
Yacoin needs an active developer community and marketing team. Where everybody does a little job of promoting/improving the coin :)

Like I did for example with my signature.
I created a thread on a big forum (HackForums)
If you're interested in reading it, here's the link: http://www.hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3505553
Only registered users can read threads though.

We will all end up beeing hacked, thanks!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: smilez on June 10, 2013, 09:32:18 AM
What does it say? Can't seem to access that page.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: yummyfritos on June 10, 2013, 09:49:49 AM
One thing that will help Yacoin is having a decent marketplace.
Currently, is there any one-stop location to look for people buying and selling with YAC?
We have trading for other crypto currencies, but there really needs to be a marketplace so people can do more with the coin.

There was a spreadsheet at one point. Is that all there is yet?

Is this subforum also able to be used?

If someone is looking to spend their YAC or has something he or she would like to try quickly selling with YAC, the overhead to put the item up should be very low, to encourage use beyond trading.

Yac does fit the need for miners who want an alternative to the GPU and ASIC rush.
Mining has been growing according to the recent network hashrate.

Plenty of people have acquired it through mining or trading.

Now let's make the Yac they've obtained work for them beyond speculation.

If Alice wants to sell an ebook for Yac, where would she go? If Bob wants to buy a Steam game for Yac, where would he go?





Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 10, 2013, 09:58:06 AM
I don't think YAC needs a marketplace right now, as I don't think there is enough people to support it. What YAC needs ATM is :
  • A community driven place, a place where people can find the software and documentation (AFAIK the yacoin.org is not updated anymore and run by someone that has nothing to do with the original developer)
  • Active development .
  • A public GPU miner (otherwise the network is always at risk).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 10, 2013, 10:01:13 AM
One thing that will help Yacoin is having a decent marketplace.
Currently, is there any one-stop location to look for people buying and selling with YAC?
We have trading for other crypto currencies, but there really needs to be a marketplace so people can do more with the coin.

There was a spreadsheet at one point. Is that all there is yet?

Is this subforum also able to be used?

If someone is looking to spend their YAC or has something he or she would like to try quickly selling with YAC, the overhead to put the item up should be very low, to encourage use beyond trading.

Yac does fit the need for miners who want an alternative to the GPU and ASIC rush.
Mining has been growing according to the recent network hashrate.

Plenty of people have acquired it through mining or trading.

Now let's make the Yac they've obtained work for them beyond speculation.

If Alice wants to sell an ebook for Yac, where would she go? If Bob wants to buy a Steam game for Yac, where would he go?

well, we can always fork bitcoin-otc as it's open-source https://github.com/nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor

I don't think YAC needs a marketplace right now, as I don't think there is enough people to support it. What YAC needs ATM is :
  • A community driven place, a place where people can find the software and documentation (AFAIK the yacoin.org is not updated anymore and run by someone that has nothing to do with the original developer)
  • Active development .
  • A public GPU miner (otherwise the network is always at risk).

what exactly do you have in mind that requires active developement?
agreed on the gpu miner, but oh well... would be a shame if we got 51%'d like FTC


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 10, 2013, 10:10:40 AM

We will all end up beeing hacked, thanks!

Lol.

What does it say? Can't seem to access that page.

I'll send you a PM with the screenshotted thread, so you can see it.

One thing that will help Yacoin is having a decent marketplace.
Currently, is there any one-stop location to look for people buying and selling with YAC?
We have trading for other crypto currencies, but there really needs to be a marketplace so people can do more with the coin.

There was a spreadsheet at one point. Is that all there is yet?

Is this subforum also able to be used?

If someone is looking to spend their YAC or has something he or she would like to try quickly selling with YAC, the overhead to put the item up should be very low, to encourage use beyond trading.

Yac does fit the need for miners who want an alternative to the GPU and ASIC rush.
Mining has been growing according to the recent network hashrate.

Plenty of people have acquired it through mining or trading.

Now let's make the Yac they've obtained work for them beyond speculation.

If Alice wants to sell an ebook for Yac, where would she go? If Bob wants to buy a Steam game for Yac, where would he go?





What do you mean? YAC already has some exchanges, like Vircurex and BTER.

I don't think YAC needs a marketplace right now, as I don't think there is enough people to support it. What YAC needs ATM is :
  • A community driven place, a place where people can find the software and documentation (AFAIK the yacoin.org is not updated anymore and run by someone that has nothing to do with the original developer)
  • Active development .
  • A public GPU miner (otherwise the network is always at risk).

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 10, 2013, 10:22:52 AM
But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC... So if someone decided to launch a 51% attack on YAC network, he would need approx. 103 GPUs (which is not that much if you consider GPU farms used to mine LTC). Also, GPU mining could stop working on August 13th, but I would not count on that (IMHO it would become impossible in mid-2015 with *current* GPUs, considering the scratchpad size of 32M [at least on my GPU, considering I'm not completely wrong, which I might be :D]).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 10, 2013, 10:25:28 AM
But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC... So if someone decided to launch a 51% attack on YAC network, he would need approx. 103 GPUs (which is not that much if you consider GPU farms used to mine LTC). Also, GPU mining could stop working on August 13th, but I would not count on that (IMHO it would become impossible in mid-2015 with *current* GPUs, considering the scratchpad size of 32M [at least on my GPU, considering I'm not completely wrong, which I might be :D]).
Hmm, you're right.
In my opinion (keep in mind that I'm pretty noob at this stuff), the developers should try to focus on making the coin mineable only with CPUs.
This way we won't need a GPU miner to prevent 51% attacks.
But I have no idea if it's possible to make it safe from GPUs.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 10, 2013, 10:27:17 AM
what exactly do you have in mind that requires active developement?
agreed on the gpu miner, but oh well... would be a shame if we got 51%'d like FTC

An active wiki like the one's up for bitcoin and litecoin in their github account's.  And binary release's on the main github account would be a nice start. Yacoin is orphan since the original dev is missing, but this should not be a problem since a distributed coin is owned by their holders and with consensus anything could be changed. Essentially I am talking about an *official* yacoin takeover.

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Since there is people already mining YAC with GPU. This only makes the currency unfair and insecure. So a public GPU implementation could only improve the security.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 10, 2013, 10:32:59 AM
But I have no idea if it's possible to make it safe from GPUs.
No it's not. GPU's are a memory constrained ATM, and  using scrypt with the Keccak hashing as used in yacoin only increases the memory used and thus the gap between CPU and GPU shortens but GPU will always be faster. The problems some people is having with GPU implementations is just because of the higher memory usage of yacoin mining, and this usage increases in time.
Keep in mind that when litecoin was released it was a CPU mining coin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 10, 2013, 10:34:09 AM
Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC...

That's not correct, please check the comments after the one where you saw that number.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on June 10, 2013, 10:37:20 AM
What do you mean? YAC already has some exchanges, like Vircurex and BTER.

If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 10, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
what exactly do you have in mind that requires active developement?
agreed on the gpu miner, but oh well... would be a shame if we got 51%'d like FTC

An active wiki like the one's up for bitcoin and litecoin in their github account's.  And binary release's on the main github account would be a nice start. Yacoin is orphan since the original dev is missing, but this should not be a problem since a distributed coin is owned by their holders and with consensus anything could be changed. Essentially I am talking about an *official* yacoin takeover.
Well, WindMaster has been pretty active on his github fork, and as it's the only maintained YAC fork, I'd consider it pretty much "official". So Yacoin is not an oprhan, just the devs changed. Binary releases should not be a problem as long as someone trusted makes them. For the github wiki, I'd say that devs don't have time for it and nobody else can write it. :D

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Since there is people already mining YAC with GPU. This only makes the currency unfair and insecure. So a public GPU implementation could only improve the security.

^ This.

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC...

That's not correct, please check the comments after the one where you saw that number.

Will do.
EDIT: Can't find anything.

What do you mean? YAC already has some exchanges, like Vircurex and BTER.

If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

I think we have bigger problems right now.

Paying 200 YAC or 0.07 BTC for working WinXP 32-bit YACoin QT wallet compiled from latest source code. Communication over PM only until I
make sure everything works properly, there are no viruses and so on. Afterwards I'll post link for others to eventualy download and upgrade wallet.

Shame I don't have dev tools on my windows install (using linux) :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 10, 2013, 11:06:24 AM

Since there is people already mining YAC with GPU. This only makes the currency unfair and insecure. So a public GPU implementation could only improve the security.

^ This.

I agree. The fact that some are mining with GPU creates serious issues on exchanges. Price can not go up because there are constant dumps of
thousands of coins even now when price is so low that mining with most CPUs is not profitable. So, on one side there is less and less CPU miners
and on the other side there are few GPU miners making extreme profit and ruining the deal for everyone else. I have removed all my buy orders for
now, and the next time I'll be putting them up it will be at 0.00003 or less. I had enough of paying 0.0003+ to support CPU mining, sorry.

And then there are possibly some botnets or people who don't pay for electricity (and someone else does).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on June 10, 2013, 12:16:14 PM

If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

I think we have bigger problems right now.

Is that a fact? I actually think the biggest problem for YAC (and many other alts) is the fact that you can't spend them on anything. Their only value comes from the exchange rate with some fiat currency. These currencies are naked with no substance to them, which makes them a speculative instrument at best.

If you could take 100 YAC and buy a meal at McDonalds, people would mine them for other reasons than to exchange them to USD. Some people might want their salaries paid in YAC rather than USD. And people with YAC in their pockets will create a demand for merchants to support YAC spending, which is the ONLY thing that will sustain a currency in the long run.

If YAC is irrelevant as a long term currency, then whatever problems "we have right now" are in reality also pretty irrelevant.

- Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 10, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
Someone should also make easy to follow guides on how to mine YACs on Windows and Linux and keep it updated (there are a lot of old threads with old links),


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on June 10, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
Regarding an auction site, this is probably what would be used to make one: http://www.webidsupport.com/

Would just need to add a payment plugin for YAC and get it hosted. If no one else takes this up, I may do it once I get some free time. At a minimum I would post a number of items to whatever marketplace site was created for YAC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 10, 2013, 02:39:11 PM
I actually think the biggest problem for YAC (and many other alts) is the fact that you can't spend them on anything. Their only value comes from the exchange rate with some fiat currency. These currencies are naked with no substance to them, which makes them a speculative instrument at best.

+1

But even bigger problem is that there is nothing one can buy with YAC only. Such deal would create at least some non-speculation-oriented demand
for YAC.

Anyway, I got newest Win 32-bit YACoin QT wallet from cre8r (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=480) and testing it now. If anyone skilled and adventurous wanna help testing it let me
know and I'll send you download link via PM. Unless you know what is Sandbox, how to check network traffic and have highly secured system than
please stay away!

VirusTotal detected nothing suspicious:

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e95af7ea4ec19514b8b642c820bfc8528051e4a01b467f6cf49baab032a04d8d/analysis/1370865711/

Glad someone was able to get that for you - I got stalled out on getting from yacoind.exe compiled to getting -qt compiled due to lack of time.  I do have an updated CPU miner for x86 compiled under MingW with the latest scrypt-jane library (and directions on how to compile it) - it appear 5+% faster than the one god3 posted - if you need them.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mnx on June 10, 2013, 03:16:46 PM
Is anyone else having problems sending coins?

I've done all my mining on p2pool, and I can't create a transaction larger than 30 YAC.  (I have 294 YAC in my wallet currently).  ANything larger and is says failed to create transaction.  When I try to send 30 YAC, it says I need to pay a transaction fee of 41 YAC!!!!!

Any way to get this fixed?

Thanks!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 10, 2013, 03:57:21 PM

If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

I think we have bigger problems right now.

Is that a fact? I actually think the biggest problem for YAC (and many other alts) is the fact that you can't spend them on anything. Their only value comes from the exchange rate with some fiat currency. These currencies are naked with no substance to them, which makes them a speculative instrument at best.

If you could take 100 YAC and buy a meal at McDonalds, people would mine them for other reasons than to exchange them to USD. Some people might want their salaries paid in YAC rather than USD. And people with YAC in their pockets will create a demand for merchants to support YAC spending, which is the ONLY thing that will sustain a currency in the long run.

If YAC is irrelevant as a long term currency, then whatever problems "we have right now" are in reality also pretty irrelevant.

- Michael

Well, first we need a much wider Bitcoin adoption... IMHO alternative cryptocurrencies are just for the "community", to test new features and come up with possible improvements for some "new" (read: widely-adopted) cryptocurrency (or become one). For me, the value of YAC is its innovation. And as far as the speculation goes - well, just look at some Bitcoin exchange rate charts. ;) Like it or not, speculators are driving the Bitcoin market forward. This is a truly free market after all. And as there's no effective way of short-selling Bitcoin, all they can do is force the price to rise.

Seriously, you can't demand that everyone suddendly starts accepting a *coin that has been around only a month. Did your granny hear of Bitcoin? Maybe. Litecoin? Highly unlikely.

Is anyone else having problems sending coins?

I've done all my mining on p2pool, and I can't create a transaction larger than 30 YAC.  (I have 294 YAC in my wallet currently).  ANything larger and is says failed to create transaction.  When I try to send 30 YAC, it says I need to pay a transaction fee of 41 YAC!!!!!

Any way to get this fixed?
Thanks!

You have too many of too little inputs from p2pool mining. Every input is some 200 bytes on average when you try to send it, and also you pay fee for every single kB of transaction and the space in one block is pretty limited, so it might have just happened that you exceeded it.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 10, 2013, 07:24:03 PM
YAC currency symbol BBCode plugin released for SMF forums:
http://yacoin.sahtor.net/post/2013/06/10/SMF-BBCode-for-Yacoin-currency-symbol

Its in use in Yacointalk.com (http://yacointalk.com/)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 10, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
For Linux users: Press Ctrl+Shift+u, then type 024E


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on June 10, 2013, 11:29:38 PM
this is a strange YAC address. or is there more that start with X's. and why?

http://yacexplorer.tk/address/Xz7bAZ4ME8AqeLSptV1jKcm29giyVwoFkz

Xz7bAZ4ME8AqeLSptV1jKcm29giyVwoFkz


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 10, 2013, 11:39:41 PM
My first address was an X too (not that one). It worked so I didn't think much about it, just created new ones and used them instead.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 11, 2013, 01:48:22 AM
Gday all i just want to introduce myself i am but a lowly small miner but however have been watching this thread and YAC

from the beginning i made a thread in the newbie section consolidating all of our current software and links to those

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231455.0

and one at the official YACoin forum http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,275.0.html

you are welcome to monitor it and keep it bumped or direct people towards it as ill keep it updated im here everyday

P2pool node here that supports the official forum http://pool.yacointalk.com:8336

also ive been really interested in what the techheads here think or speculate of how spintronics will effect YAC in the future

and if anyone feels like setting something up to promote YAC in some way when we finnaly find out how GPUs' will effect YAC
in the near future im always open to help out in anyway i can


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 11, 2013, 07:20:28 AM
Gday all i just want to introduce myself

Welcome aboard! I'm new too but also been lurking since the beginning. Good job promoting in the newbie forum. I still 100% believe YAC is the best coin around right now, we just need some more community action and promotion to get more adoption. I think it's crucial for YAC to have more users mining because we don't want to risk a 51% attack like FTC and other coins in the past. Botnets and GPU farms are still a major threat right now, and to combat that we need as many individuals mining as possible.

EDIT:
Of course, I am forgetting about POS which we are starting to get some blocks of now, so I think a 51% attack is less likely, but still... more hashrate is always welcome. Also I think maybe you might be better off posting that newbie guide in this forum rather than on the newbies forum because it will just fall off the radar there in an instant due to the high volume of new posts there. What does everyone else think?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 11, 2013, 07:49:04 AM
Gday all i just want to introduce myself

Welcome aboard! I'm new too but also been lurking since the beginning. Good job promoting in the newbie forum. I still 100% believe YAC is the best coin around right now, we just need some more community action and promotion to get more adoption. I think it's crucial for YAC to have more users mining because we don't want to risk a 51% attack like FTC and other coins in the past. Botnets and GPU farms are still a major threat right now, and to combat that we need as many individuals mining as possible.

Thanks alot, and i think its just a matter of not being even 60% sure of what will happen in even 6 months time with the way we hash it/secure it

 so untill it becomes a bit clearer to certain people that support YAC

we need to just sit tight and keep supporting the infrastructure which is the software devs to build that solid foundation to launch its primary uses i guess and focus

but i could be wrong its just my thought

i came out because i saw some people reach out out to get a feel for who else is still interested in the dev of YAC

so its good to see you come out also :)

so my thoughts are once we get a better feeling for whats in the near future for this coin and its engine

we will have a better sense on how to manage the coin and where we can take it

and untill then people will continue to sit on the sidelines but im sure many are watching it


 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on June 11, 2013, 08:27:07 AM
Well, first we need a much wider Bitcoin adoption... IMHO alternative cryptocurrencies are just for the "community", to test new features and come up with possible improvements for some "new" (read: widely-adopted) cryptocurrency (or become one).

For me, the value of YAC is its innovation.

And have any of these alt coins managed to achieve such improvements? Unfortunatley, no. Their technological achievements are negligible - mostly stabs at shorter transaction times and (in vain) preventing concentrated mining efforts by using different hashing algorithms.

Once all YACoin have been mined, it will be functionally identical to LTC, FTC and BTC for that matter. The only exception is the faster transaction time, which comes at the expense of security.

Like it or not, speculators are driving the Bitcoin market forward. This is a truly free market after all. And as there's no effective way of short-selling Bitcoin, all they can do is force the price to rise.

I don't understand what you mean. Don't miners sell their BTC for USD? This will drive the price down. You can also short sell Bitcoin by selling futures contracts on sites like icbit.se.

But apart from that I disagree that Bitcoin is being driven by speculators. BTC is a widely accepted form of currency, and it has a thriving market. There are very things that cannot be purchased with BTC, unlike the alts which have no commercial support whatsoever. Frankly I don't see why they should have.

- Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: procrypto on June 11, 2013, 10:04:38 AM
Regarding an auction site, this is probably what would be used to make one: http://www.webidsupport.com/

Would just need to add a payment plugin for YAC and get it hosted. If no one else takes this up, I may do it once I get some free time. At a minimum I would post a number of items to whatever marketplace site was created for YAC.

For an alternative choice, I've used http://www.phpprobid.com/ before and found it pretty versatile. Not used it for a couple of years so can't vouch for current reliability/security.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 11, 2013, 10:09:10 AM



 There are very things that cannot be purchased with BTC, unlike the alts which have no commercial support whatsoever. Frankly I don't see why they should have.

- Michael


Im sure the same was said about BTC in its first days, i believe that some alts will evolve the same way

I dont see a problem with the way BTC is traded for usd and thats much the same as any currency is they have their uses and are accepted where others arn't

I also see no reason why some alt coins will not do the same thing and treat BTC like it treats the usd and other established currencies

people will inevitably adopt them

for what they stand for or the service they provide or the benefits of using them and even the ability to be somewhat alternative because you choose to use them or even just their name and availability

and in a twist of thought just like the world is inevitably forced to co exist with Bitcoin because each have the power to take one another down the same as alts and BTC and ill elaborate if needed but im sure you get

my drift and im sure you know how ugly it would get

and that shouldn't and wont happen because they are all each forced to co exist so just flow with it and try to be optimistic about all of their potentials


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 11, 2013, 11:07:27 AM
this is a strange YAC address. or is there more that start with X's. and why?

http://yacexplorer.tk/address/Xz7bAZ4ME8AqeLSptV1jKcm29giyVwoFkz

Xz7bAZ4ME8AqeLSptV1jKcm29giyVwoFkz

YACoin uses address prefix version 77, see:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/List_of_address_prefixes

Once all YACoin have been mined, it will be functionally identical to LTC, FTC and BTC for that matter. The only exception is the faster transaction time, which comes at the expense of security.

Errm, I don't think any of us will live to see it as there's a 2 Billion cap. There's 3.3 M YAC so far, and IMO the generation will slow down considerably as PoS blocks take over.

Like it or not, speculators are driving the Bitcoin market forward. This is a truly free market after all. And as there's no effective way of short-selling Bitcoin, all they can do is force the price to rise.

I don't understand what you mean. Don't miners sell their BTC for USD? This will drive the price down. You can also short sell Bitcoin by selling futures contracts on sites like icbit.se.

But apart from that I disagree that Bitcoin is being driven by speculators. BTC is a widely accepted form of currency, and it has a thriving market. There are very things that cannot be purchased with BTC, unlike the alts which have no commercial support whatsoever. Frankly I don't see why they should have.

- Michael

I think we're both right. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on June 11, 2013, 11:41:07 AM
Im sure the same was said about BTC in its first days, i believe that some alts will evolve the same way

They will only evolve if they can bring something new to the table. What does YAC offer, that makes it attractive and sets it apart from BTC?

If I introduced a new currency that had no purpose except to be exchanged for USD, would the american public adopt my currency in stead of their own? I think they would ask "why?" and I don't think I would have a good answer for them.

I dont see a problem with the way BTC is traded for usd and thats much the same as any currency is they have their uses and are accepted where others arn't

But that's just the point. YAC is not accepted anywhere I do business. If anyone is to "accept" YAC they would have to have a compelling reason to use it in stead of USD or BTC.

people will inevitably adopt them

They won't, unless they have good reason to. Can you think of one? I can't.

for what they stand for or the service they provide or the benefits of using them and even the ability to be somewhat alternative because you choose to use them or even just their name and availability
and in a twist of thought just like the world is inevitably forced to co exist with Bitcoin because each have the power to take one another down the same as alts and BTC and ill elaborate if needed but im sure you get
my drift and im sure you know how ugly it would get

I don't get your drift, sorry. Alt coins provide no service or benefits on their own, they don't have any "power". They only have the value that people put in them.

and that shouldn't and wont happen because they are all each forced to co exist so just flow with it and try to be optimistic about all of their potentials

YAC will not gain any value unless you can spend it on something. That's the only potential they have.

-Michael

- Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sevenseals on June 11, 2013, 12:14:27 PM

Welcome aboard! I'm new too but also been lurking since the beginning. Good job promoting in the newbie forum. I still 100% believe YAC is the best coin around right now, we just need some more community action and promotion to get more adoption. I think it's crucial for YAC to have more users mining because we don't want to risk a 51% attack like FTC and other coins in the past. Botnets and GPU farms are still a major threat right now, and to combat that we need as many individuals mining as possible.


We need a browser miner like "bitcoinplus" to make mining easy for all users.
Then we can prevent 51% attacks by botnets and GPU farms.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 11, 2013, 12:19:20 PM
I like how everyone is trying to find ways to help spreading YACoin. That's the spirit guys!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 11, 2013, 12:43:18 PM
If someone could develop a web based miner I have some nice ways to help promote and distribute yac... anyone know where I would start on a script like that?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 11, 2013, 01:05:03 PM
If someone could develop a web based miner I have some nice ways to help promote and distribute yac... anyone know where I would start on a script like that?
I am sure I have seen a java applet for mining Bitcoin but can't remember the name ATM. Also I don't know of anything that could mine neither scrypt that litecoin uses nor the scrypt variation that uses YAC-


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 11, 2013, 01:17:03 PM
If someone could develop a web based miner I have some nice ways to help promote and distribute yac... anyone know where I would start on a script like that?
I am sure I have seen a java applet for mining Bitcoin but can't remember the name ATM. Also I don't know of anything that could mine neither scrypt that litecoin uses nor the scrypt variation that uses YAC-

bitcoinplus? something like that would be great


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sevenseals on June 11, 2013, 01:36:00 PM
If someone could develop a web based miner I have some nice ways to help promote and distribute yac... anyone know where I would start on a script like that?
I am sure I have seen a java applet for mining Bitcoin but can't remember the name ATM. Also I don't know of anything that could mine neither scrypt that litecoin uses nor the scrypt variation that uses YAC-

there is a java applet for bitcoins at www.bitcoinplus.com


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 11, 2013, 02:28:02 PM
If someone could develop a web based miner I have some nice ways to help promote and distribute yac... anyone know where I would start on a script like that?
I am sure I have seen a java applet for mining Bitcoin but can't remember the name ATM. Also I don't know of anything that could mine neither scrypt that litecoin uses nor the scrypt variation that uses YAC-

Most likely a Java implementation of scrypt-chacha will yield pretty low hash rates compared with an actual optimized SSE or AVX-enabled miner on the same hardware.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 11, 2013, 04:12:08 PM
If someone could develop a web based miner I have some nice ways to help promote and distribute yac... anyone know where I would start on a script like that?
I am sure I have seen a java applet for mining Bitcoin but can't remember the name ATM. Also I don't know of anything that could mine neither scrypt that litecoin uses nor the scrypt variation that uses YAC-

Most likely a Java implementation of scrypt-chacha will yield pretty low hash rates compared with an actual optimized SSE or AVX-enabled miner on the same hardware.

Also, who has java enabled in their browser these days?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 11, 2013, 04:37:35 PM
Gday all i just want to introduce myself

Welcome aboard! I'm new too but also been lurking since the beginning. Good job promoting in the newbie forum. I still 100% believe YAC is the best coin around right now, we just need some more community action and promotion to get more adoption. I think it's crucial for YAC to have more users mining because we don't want to risk a 51% attack like FTC and other coins in the past. Botnets and GPU farms are still a major threat right now, and to combat that we need as many individuals mining as possible.

Thanks alot, and i think its just a matter of not being even 60% sure of what will happen in even 6 months time with the way we hash it/secure it

 so untill it becomes a bit clearer to certain people that support YAC

we need to just sit tight and keep supporting the infrastructure which is the software devs to build that solid foundation to launch its primary uses i guess and focus

but i could be wrong its just my thought

i came out because i saw some people reach out out to get a feel for who else is still interested in the dev of YAC

so its good to see you come out also :)

so my thoughts are once we get a better feeling for whats in the near future for this coin and its engine

we will have a better sense on how to manage the coin and where we can take it

and untill then people will continue to sit on the sidelines but im sure many are watching it


 

Thanks for the introduction shroomz - what's the fee on your p2pool - perhaps I didn't read everything, or it wasn't posted?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AGD on June 11, 2013, 04:58:16 PM
Regarding an auction site, this is probably what would be used to make one: http://www.webidsupport.com/

Would just need to add a payment plugin for YAC and get it hosted. If no one else takes this up, I may do it once I get some free time. At a minimum I would post a number of items to whatever marketplace site was created for YAC.

Where can you get that plugin? I got some free time left...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 01:24:59 AM
Thanks Hanzac for taking the leap today,

and on another note i have made a Think Tank at the offical YACoin forum http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,273.msg991.html#msg991

its a place where all of our great minds here can come together and develop ideas, decide what is best and agreed upon

then get in their own branches and bring them to reality

Its a place so us as stakeholders and anyone interested can float ideas and agree upon them as a community as opposed to soling it

I made it because ive noticed we are all spread out and really need a place to come together and then we can present them here

because at the moment we get alot of exposure here but its confusing to find out whats happening with YAC unless you have read all the threads from the begining.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 12, 2013, 01:35:38 AM
Transanctions are still blazingly fast, I love it. ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on June 12, 2013, 01:46:23 AM

Essentially I am talking about an *official* yacoin takeover.


WindMaster, I think your version should become the official version.

Everyone would applaud and it would be a very good thing for Yacoin..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 02:18:35 AM

Essentially I am talking about an *official* yacoin takeover.


WindMaster, I think your version should become the official version.

Everyone would applaud and it would be a very good thing for Yacoin..

It is the official client, the 64b windows version was released by Hanzac.

The same person who just released an experimental GPU miner its all here http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,275.0.html


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: x3maniac on June 12, 2013, 03:23:29 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 03:31:37 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: x3maniac on June 12, 2013, 03:47:43 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 04:02:19 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: x3maniac on June 12, 2013, 04:09:36 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

hmmp no such commands for keypool i believe

edit: this is from the debug log
Code:
SendMoney() : Error: Transaction creation failed  AddToWallet afec0ce192  new
edit 2:i tried it again this time i moved the money to a new account i made on the wallet and i get a new error
Code:
SendMoney() : Error: Transaction creation failed  getheaders 88941 to 0000000017d79144f9a9


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 04:34:47 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

hmmp no such commands for keypool i believe

edit: this is from the debug log
Code:
SendMoney() : Error: Transaction creation failed  AddToWallet afec0ce192  new

Code:
if (!CreateTransaction(scriptPubKey, nValue, wtxNew, reservekey, nFeeRequired))
    {
        string strError;
        if (nValue + nFeeRequired > GetBalance())
            strError = strprintf(_("Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least %s because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds  "), FormatMoney(nFeeRequired).c_str());
        else
            strError = _("Error: Transaction creation failed  ");
        printf("SendMoney() : %s", strError.c_str());
        return strError;
    }

    if (fAskFee && !uiInterface.ThreadSafeAskFee(nFeeRequired, _("Sending...")))
        return "ABORTED";

    if (!CommitTransaction(wtxNew, reservekey))
        return _("Error: The transaction was rejected.  This might happen if some of the coins in your wallet were already spent, such as if you used a copy of wallet.dat and coins were spent in the copy but not marked as spent here.");

    return "";

found this ins the source so you might need to export privkeys and import to new wallet but im not sure at least we are getting somewhere


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: x3maniac on June 12, 2013, 04:52:10 AM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

hmmp no such commands for keypool i believe

edit: this is from the debug log
Code:
SendMoney() : Error: Transaction creation failed  AddToWallet afec0ce192  new

Code:
if (!CreateTransaction(scriptPubKey, nValue, wtxNew, reservekey, nFeeRequired))
    {
        string strError;
        if (nValue + nFeeRequired > GetBalance())
            strError = strprintf(_("Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least %s because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds  "), FormatMoney(nFeeRequired).c_str());
        else
            strError = _("Error: Transaction creation failed  ");
        printf("SendMoney() : %s", strError.c_str());
        return strError;
    }

    if (fAskFee && !uiInterface.ThreadSafeAskFee(nFeeRequired, _("Sending...")))
        return "ABORTED";

    if (!CommitTransaction(wtxNew, reservekey))
        return _("Error: The transaction was rejected.  This might happen if some of the coins in your wallet were already spent, such as if you used a copy of wallet.dat and coins were spent in the copy but not marked as spent here.");

    return "";

found this ins the source so you might need to export privkeys and import to new wallet but im not sure at least we are getting somewhere
i'm going to give that a try tomorrow. i'll let you know how it goes


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 12, 2013, 08:56:26 AM
GPU miner released, heh..
I'm not so hyped about it.. YAC isn't special anymore, right?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 12, 2013, 09:19:19 AM
GPU miner released, heh..
I'm not so hyped about it.. YAC isn't special anymore, right?

Well, hanzac's GPU miner doesn't perform especially well compared with mtrlt's normal scrypt+salsa kernel for mining other scrypt coins on the same hardware.  Hanzac's OpenCL kernel was already mostly released way way back in this thread, he just needed to fix a few bugs.  Anyone that wants to mine YAC really fast on GPU's will have to do a whole lot more than just port the scrypt+chacha code from the scrypt-jane library to OpenCL, which is why I've been maintaining for a while that there's probably many GPU implementations out there that can mine YAC, but probably very few (but at least 1) that actually do it fast enough to be worthwhile.

I tested it long enough to mine about 5 blocks of YAC then switched my GPU farm back to mining LTC.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Boing7898 on June 12, 2013, 09:23:40 AM
GPU miner released, heh..
I'm not so hyped about it.. YAC isn't special anymore, right?

Well, hanzac's GPU miner doesn't perform especially well compared with mtrlt's normal scrypt+salsa kernel for mining other scrypt coins on the same hardware.  Hanzac's OpenCL kernel was already mostly released way way back in this thread, he just needed to fix a few bugs.

I tested it long enough to mine about 5 blocks of YAC then switched my GPU farm back to mining LTC.
GPU farm? You have a CPU farm too, right?
What's your job?  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on June 12, 2013, 10:11:32 AM
GPU farm? You have a CPU farm too, right?
What's your job?  ;D
OMG don't ask obvious questions, if he has a farm, he is obviously a farmer  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Dont make me be the first person to post here >>>http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,273.0.html


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on June 12, 2013, 12:37:33 PM
Also, who has java enabled in their browser these days?

Oh, everyone? At least if you live in a country like I do, where all public, governmental and online banking sites are secured with a centralized java applet. Disable java and you have no way to interact with the government or your bank.

- Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 12, 2013, 12:43:38 PM
A public GPU miner is only going to add miners to YAC, which, in my opinion is a good thing. I have a few GPU rigs and ALL of them have the absolute worst, yet most power efficient CPU's - so, not viable for YAC mining. Now that I can point some of them at YACoin, I can get back in the game. I'm guessing it's the same for many. Also, as WM already mentioned, the performance difference isn't like any other scrypt implementations - so for those that have good CPU's, mining is also still viable for them.  


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 12, 2013, 02:15:10 PM
Also, who has java enabled in their browser these days?

Oh, everyone? At least if you live in a country like I do, where all public, governmental and online banking sites are secured with a centralized java applet. Disable java and you have no way to interact with the government or your bank.

- Michael

Hah, gave me a good laugh, thanks! :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 12, 2013, 04:07:11 PM
A public GPU miner is only going to add miners to YAC, which, in my opinion is a good thing. I have a few GPU rigs and ALL of them have the absolute worst, yet most power efficient CPU's - so, not viable for YAC mining. Now that I can point some of them at YACoin, I can get back in the game. I'm guessing it's the same for many. Also, as WM already mentioned, the performance difference isn't like any other scrypt implementations - so for those that have good CPU's, mining is also still viable for them.  

I agree with this, especially since N is at a high enough level now so that GPU miners don't have THAT much of an advantage over CPU miners. I'm still solo-mining on my i7-2700k just fine.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 05:03:26 PM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

Break the amount you want to send into few smaller ones. It is very likely that you are attempting to send so much inputs that YACoin client
refuses to create such transaction due to transaction size and / or fee limits.

As far as I know, -keypool value works only when making new wallet. It specifies the number of keys wallet is to keep as reserve at all times
and it is useful only if person is not making wallet backups frequently but regulary and frequently creates many new addresses for receiving coins.
If both criteria are fulfilled but person uses default keypool of 100, it can happen that when rolling back to old backup some coins will be missing
due to keypool of old wallet being exhausted, e.g. newer wallet "knows" more used keys than older one.

Thats correct its for creating reserve addresses I was trying to get him to throw random ideas at the problem notice how i didnt format -keypool 1000 properly
that was also a work of deductive arts :) Sherlock would be so proud, but thanks mate


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 12, 2013, 05:34:03 PM
A public GPU miner is only going to add miners to YAC, which, in my opinion is a good thing. I have a few GPU rigs and ALL of them have the absolute worst, yet most power efficient CPU's - so, not viable for YAC mining. Now that I can point some of them at YACoin, I can get back in the game. I'm guessing it's the same for many. Also, as WM already mentioned, the performance difference isn't like any other scrypt implementations - so for those that have good CPU's, mining is also still viable for them.  

I agree with this, especially since N is at a high enough level now so that GPU miners don't have THAT much of an advantage over CPU miners. I'm still solo-mining on my i7-2700k just fine.

Agree and disagree - I know there were people who were able to do their own OpenCL implementation and get them running ahead of one being publicly released.... However, the GPU in my laptop (7850M) is running at roughly 4x the rate of the CPU (i7 3610M) - that's quite a bit of an advantage!

In comparing YAC on GPU to BTC on GPU, It's looking to me that the newer cards (7xxx) do great at this algorithm, while older cards (5870, I'm looking at you), aren't so good, even though they may crush in BTC hashrate...

7850 -> 140 KH/sec YAC, 310 MH/sec BTC
5870 -> 100 KH/sec YAC, 400 MH/sec BTC


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 12, 2013, 05:51:34 PM
A public GPU miner is only going to add miners to YAC, which, in my opinion is a good thing. I have a few GPU rigs and ALL of them have the absolute worst, yet most power efficient CPU's - so, not viable for YAC mining. Now that I can point some of them at YACoin, I can get back in the game. I'm guessing it's the same for many. Also, as WM already mentioned, the performance difference isn't like any other scrypt implementations - so for those that have good CPU's, mining is also still viable for them.  

I agree with this, especially since N is at a high enough level now so that GPU miners don't have THAT much of an advantage over CPU miners. I'm still solo-mining on my i7-2700k just fine.

Agree and disagree - I know there were people who were able to do their own OpenCL implementation and get them running ahead of one being publicly released.... However, the GPU in my laptop (7850M) is running at roughly 4x the rate of the CPU (i7 3610M) - that's quite a bit of an advantage!

In comparing YAC on GPU to BTC on GPU, It's looking to me that the newer cards (7xxx) do great at this algorithm, while older cards (5870, I'm looking at you), aren't so good, even though they may crush in BTC hashrate...

7850 -> 140 KH/sec YAC, 310 MH/sec BTC
5870 -> 100 KH/sec YAC, 400 MH/sec BTC



Are you running Techinfernos Throttlestop its great for disabling the boost throttling on laptops

cause as soon as you load it up the boost gets throttled instantly down as you may well know already. But i get your point too i just had to add that in there, that program is the bomb, it really brought a m11x r2 to life that i had


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on June 12, 2013, 08:45:07 PM
I can do 300kh/s for ltc and 90 kh/s for yac with Hanzac's code.

thats .5 LTC versus 27 yacoin at the current difficulty of 0.76. it's about even price-wise.

the cpu ratio is closer to 2:1 in terms of kh/s for ltc vs yac. for cpu its more profitable to mine yac and for gpu its even at current prices.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 12, 2013, 09:12:34 PM
the cpu ratio is closer to 2:1 in terms of kh/s for ltc vs yac. for cpu its more profitable to mine yac and for gpu its even at current prices.

In the long run and if everybody did the same GPU mining LTC and trading for YACs would end being more profitable, as price would rise instead of increasing the supply.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bandjhughes on June 12, 2013, 10:33:07 PM
GPU miner released, heh..
I'm not so hyped about it.. YAC isn't special anymore, right?

Well, hanzac's GPU miner doesn't perform especially well compared with mtrlt's normal scrypt+salsa kernel for mining other scrypt coins on the same hardware.  Hanzac's OpenCL kernel was already mostly released way way back in this thread, he just needed to fix a few bugs.

I tested it long enough to mine about 5 blocks of YAC then switched my GPU farm back to mining LTC.
GPU farm? You have a CPU farm too, right?
What's your job?  ;D

Perhaps farming?  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Eli0t on June 12, 2013, 11:37:22 PM
maybe time for a YAC pool with stratum now the gpu miner is out, getting quite a few stales


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeleep on June 13, 2013, 04:26:38 AM
maybe time for a YAC pool with stratum now the gpu miner is out, getting quite a few stales

I was trying to modify eloipool to work with scrypt-jane but I've got segmentation fault errors and I don't know how to debug it (I am not skilled at all in python). In my opinion problem with high stale rate is because for some reason (scrypt-jane dependant calculations?) both pushpool and yacoind are very hungry for resources - CPU usage in average ~10 times higher than other coins. Even if my server is 8 core with 24 GB RAM it creates some delays internally which leads to stales...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 13, 2013, 04:28:01 AM
What I think we need next TBH is a proper mining program with stratum support. That way we can capitalize on the hashrate we still have left and get better feedback and less stale shares.

I looked at this very briefly a few days ago and it looks like it could be adapted to YACoin if someone has time to spend a few hours on it    https://github.com/CryptoManiac/stratum-mining


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 13, 2013, 05:10:48 AM
maybe time for a YAC pool with stratum now the gpu miner is out, getting quite a few stales

I was trying to modify eloipool to work with scrypt-jane but I've got segmentation fault errors and I don't know how to debug it (I am not skilled at all in python). In my opinion problem with high stale rate is because for some reason (scrypt-jane dependant calculations?) both pushpool and yacoind are very hungry for resources - CPU usage in average ~10 times higher than other coins. Even if my server is 8 core with 24 GB RAM it creates some delays internally which leads to stales...

I find each time it hashes, it will allocate the memory buffer (call scrypt_alloc) and scrypt_free at the end of hash. Will it impact the performance when there're so many threads processing? How about make this memory buffer becomes thread-local to reduce these memory re-allocation?

Otherwise, I can't find more difference of it between the yacoin & other scrypt coins.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeleep on June 13, 2013, 05:19:00 AM
maybe time for a YAC pool with stratum now the gpu miner is out, getting quite a few stales

I was trying to modify eloipool to work with scrypt-jane but I've got segmentation fault errors and I don't know how to debug it (I am not skilled at all in python). In my opinion problem with high stale rate is because for some reason (scrypt-jane dependant calculations?) both pushpool and yacoind are very hungry for resources - CPU usage in average ~10 times higher than other coins. Even if my server is 8 core with 24 GB RAM it creates some delays internally which leads to stales...

I find each time it hashes, it will allocate the memory buffer (call scrypt_alloc) and scrypt_free at the end of hash. Will it impact the performance when there're so many threads processing? How about make this memory buffer becomes thread-local to reduce these memory re-allocation?

Otherwise, I can't find more difference of it between the yacoin & other scrypt coins.

If you are asking me - I have no idea how to do this :) but I can easily test it if you can provide example.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 13, 2013, 08:30:53 AM
maybe time for a YAC pool with stratum now the gpu miner is out, getting quite a few stales

I was trying to modify eloipool to work with scrypt-jane but I've got segmentation fault errors and I don't know how to debug it (I am not skilled at all in python). In my opinion problem with high stale rate is because for some reason (scrypt-jane dependant calculations?) both pushpool and yacoind are very hungry for resources - CPU usage in average ~10 times higher than other coins. Even if my server is 8 core with 24 GB RAM it creates some delays internally which leads to stales...

I find each time it hashes, it will allocate the memory buffer (call scrypt_alloc) and scrypt_free at the end of hash. Will it impact the performance when there're so many threads processing? How about make this memory buffer becomes thread-local to reduce these memory re-allocation?

Otherwise, I can't find more difference of it between the yacoin & other scrypt coins.

If you are asking me - I have no idea how to do this :) but I can easily test it if you can provide example.

I made the change of code by using boost's thread-local facility. Here is the patch against the current git: https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin_mem_opt_patch.zip

I've locally built the client, it works no error.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 13, 2013, 10:18:44 AM
the cpu ratio is closer to 2:1 in terms of kh/s for ltc vs yac. for cpu its more profitable to mine yac and for gpu its even at current prices.

In the long run and if everybody did the same GPU mining LTC and trading for YACs would end being more profitable, as price would rise instead of increasing the supply.

Don't forget that YAC block reward decreases with difficulty going up. More hashrate means YAC price must go up else mining becomes unprofitable.

[BOUNTY]

Anyway, is there someone skilled enough to add coin control to YACoin client? More info here > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144331.0
I'll pay 1 BTC for the job which must include source code and working Win32 and 64 bit binaries. Others are welcomed to add some coins to bounty.

Hah, this is attractive. I'll see if I have spare time after tomorrow. I will take it if there's no one else accept this request. ;-)

But what's used for? I don't know why it's worth for 1BTC bounty.

OK, I got it. But now I'm wondering why not put this coin control directly in the yacoin-qt client?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeleep on June 13, 2013, 10:35:14 AM
maybe time for a YAC pool with stratum now the gpu miner is out, getting quite a few stales

I was trying to modify eloipool to work with scrypt-jane but I've got segmentation fault errors and I don't know how to debug it (I am not skilled at all in python). In my opinion problem with high stale rate is because for some reason (scrypt-jane dependant calculations?) both pushpool and yacoind are very hungry for resources - CPU usage in average ~10 times higher than other coins. Even if my server is 8 core with 24 GB RAM it creates some delays internally which leads to stales...

I find each time it hashes, it will allocate the memory buffer (call scrypt_alloc) and scrypt_free at the end of hash. Will it impact the performance when there're so many threads processing? How about make this memory buffer becomes thread-local to reduce these memory re-allocation?

Otherwise, I can't find more difference of it between the yacoin & other scrypt coins.

If you are asking me - I have no idea how to do this :) but I can easily test it if you can provide example.

I made the change of code by using boost's thread-local facility. Here is the patch against the current git: https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hnindev/files/yacoin_mem_opt_patch.zip

I've locally built the client, it works no error.

tested it but it works even slower - there must be also a different issue: I suspect few users on my pool are using botnets to mine yacs, which lead to lot of requests to pushpool...

I set up another pushpool instance on port 8888 - can anyone point a miner to this port and check accepted/rejected ratio?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 12:20:22 PM
I merged a large set of changes from Joe_Bauers to upgrade to a more recent version of the scrypt-jane library (hopefully easing some of the Windows QT client build problems).  I also added a checkpoint at block height 90000.

Everyone upgrade somewhat cautiously since there were quite a lot of changes to the code, and report if they broke anything.  A Linux build seems to be performing correctly for me after the changes, but I'm more unsure about whether anything broke on the Windows side.

Joe - I left out the RPC port change from 8332 to 8108 for now.  Main concern is that anyone that didn't explicitly specify rpcport= in their config file might have things broken by changing the RPC port (and worse, might not know that it broke).  I think if anyone is running the Novacoin client on the same box, then for now, they may need to manually set rpcport= in the config file.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
Something is not right, there are 2 blockchains now and YAC explorer is on longer one, which is incompatibile with shorter one.

Checking vs. an old version of the client to see whether the scrypt-jane library upgrade merged from Joe_Bauers broke something with the block hash checks.  Everyone hold on upgrading until we know for sure what's up.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 13, 2013, 12:52:03 PM
what's wrong with YAC, one hour blocks in my pool become to orphan.

and new find block
for example

http://yacexplorer.tk//tx/2bd44cc71eb9ad506c6bb27d7f613cfe60d0cb9c11cf60b32919bf08e557d781

seems orphan, but when list transactions, it show "immature"


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on June 13, 2013, 12:56:15 PM
related?
Code:
REORGANIZE
REORGANIZE: Disconnect 75 blocks; 00000000d4cdea93920c..00000000be297c3fa50a
REORGANIZE: Connect 2 blocks; 00000000d4cdea93920c..6928a457abc4f0f9abaf
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted acae330997 (poolsz 1)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 78d70ef8ba (poolsz 2)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 2b7a3e135a (poolsz 3)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 2617d7a7e9 (poolsz 4)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8cf9a476e8 (poolsz 5)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8deb16bef1 (poolsz 6)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 484c3ba458 (poolsz 7)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted a12fe09e88 (poolsz 8)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 4cd52e319e (poolsz 9)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 854af59a78 (poolsz 10)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 9a5ba50cd0 (poolsz 11)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8c3c750e3b (poolsz 12)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 5f3183cd91 (poolsz 13)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted bbabacf713 (poolsz 14)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted c72a4747fd (poolsz 15)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 79bd0318ea (poolsz 16)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 87df04fe38 (poolsz 17)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 49e9f5d79e (poolsz 18)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted c9aba598bc (poolsz 19)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 04ec2cc009 (poolsz 20)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 6e04d622a9 (poolsz 21)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted c8323850ff (poolsz 22)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 5434375f71 (poolsz 23)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 284ecb7003 (poolsz 24)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted b40212f758 (poolsz 25)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 701337cb07 (poolsz 26)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 75f4a95ce0 (poolsz 27)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted ccbf7ce008 (poolsz 28)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted c076dacbde (poolsz 29)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 9479a4f8e6 (poolsz 30)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8e0d8aa060 (poolsz 31)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted d84feee543 (poolsz 32)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 34d222cb6b (poolsz 33)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted dd785ba78a (poolsz 34)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 468e016d5e (poolsz 35)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 6fccdb01fd (poolsz 36)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted abc88dc86c (poolsz 37)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 4a36c28214 (poolsz 38)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 20ba535eb1 (poolsz 39)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 1c5080c57a (poolsz 40)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted e32ee0d54e (poolsz 41)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted ae33c6bc04 (poolsz 42)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted dc631905a2 (poolsz 43)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted a665b5ea48 (poolsz 44)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 75176a0b84 (poolsz 45)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 0976d807fe (poolsz 46)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 483878eb64 (poolsz 47)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 380a6c249b (poolsz 48)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 7881873cce (poolsz 49)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8978d4d243 (poolsz 50)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 4698485598 (poolsz 51)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 796c60c58a (poolsz 52)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted b9333f982d (poolsz 53)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 5bfdbefcbb (poolsz 54)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 81e4ec3de7 (poolsz 55)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 249ecb8714 (poolsz 56)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 7283444e42 (poolsz 57)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 4f1068b636 (poolsz 58)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted c4bbad1c68 (poolsz 59)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted ffadc2b371 (poolsz 60)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 19da8aac86 (poolsz 61)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 5e7875586d (poolsz 62)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 2a24c4c048 (poolsz 63)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 9cdfb5f408 (poolsz 64)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 28807f6350 (poolsz 65)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 1774f7b2fa (poolsz 66)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted ef33b1b9a5 (poolsz 67)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8b51554319 (poolsz 68)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 4123cf1438 (poolsz 69)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 451c8cc22d (poolsz 70)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 9d708ce16d (poolsz 71)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 6a1fa02a11 (poolsz 72)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted c0856a6e80 (poolsz 73)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 32bfe5fead (poolsz 74)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 9445aefb28 (poolsz 75)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 072ccb482d (poolsz 76)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 1385c88fa8 (poolsz 77)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8c24a41b72 (poolsz 78)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 43f6690ab6 (poolsz 79)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted fef5fcedcc (poolsz 80)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 27bb73d2d6 (poolsz 81)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 8c7207e18b (poolsz 82)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 070a4fe57d (poolsz 83)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted d133e0422e (poolsz 84)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 32c360aeec (poolsz 85)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted afdf77719f (poolsz 86)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 098bec1bc2 (poolsz 87)
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 7604b2f0c1 (poolsz 88)
REORGANIZE: done
SetBestChain: new best=6928a457abc4f0f9abaf  height=91036  trust=180392666013  date=06/13/13 11:15:25
SetBestChain: new best=c66e7c5bb1d40c37c835  height=91037  trust=181466411933  date=06/13/13 12:02:55
ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 462
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 481
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 477
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 490
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 495
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 494
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 492
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 482
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 469
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 464
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 456
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 453
keypool return 12
getblocks 90973 to 6928a457abc4f0f9abaf limit 500
  getblocks stopping at 91036 6928a457abc4f0f9abaf
getblocks 90973 to c66e7c5bb1d40c37c835 limit 500
  getblocks stopping at 91037 c66e7c5bb1d40c37c835
Flushing wallet.dat
Flushed wallet.dat 221ms
getblocks 91036 to 00000000000000000000 limit 500
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 462
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 481
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 477
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 490
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 495
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 494
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 492
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 482
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 469
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 464
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 456
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 453
keypool return 12

[snip]

ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
keypool return 12
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
keypool return 12
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
keypool return 12
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
keypool return 12
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
keypool return 12
ERROR: ConnectInputs() : tried to spend coinbase at depth 499
keypool return 12
received block 00000000a69aa2d9f222
SetBestChain: new best=00000000a69aa2d9f222  height=91084  trust=182540157899  date=06/13/13 12:50:42
ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
keypool return 12
Failed 51%?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 13, 2013, 12:57:30 PM
Here is a screenshot of my old client (original "official" client) and yacexplorer. I am getting a block # discrepancy as well.
http://i.imgur.com/fWTjjkk.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: liteuser on June 13, 2013, 12:58:22 PM
I've got some orphans from past hour that had been accepted (included a PoS block).

getmininginfo gives 91091




Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 13, 2013, 01:00:44 PM
My wallet is on block 91095.

Edit: No updated client.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 01:01:11 PM
Everyone that's showing a lower block count #, are you on a version of the client prior to my Github commits of about an hour ago?  I'm trying to determine now whether everyone having problems is or isn't on the client with the updated scrypt-jane library that I pushed to Github within the last hour.  If anyone showing the lower block count # did not upgrade, then it isn't connected to the changes.  If everyone showing the lower block count # did upgrade, then I'll revert the last 2 commits in the Github repository.

Bitcoin Megastore and eule, did you upgrade in the last hour?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 13, 2013, 01:04:51 PM
Everyone that's showing a lower block count #, are you on a version of the client prior to my Github commits of about an hour ago?  I'm trying to determine now whether everyone having problems is or isn't on the client with the updated scrypt-jane library that I pushed to Github within the last hour.  If anyone showing the lower block count # did not upgrade, then it isn't connected to the changes.  If everyone showing the lower block count # did upgrade, then I'll revert the last 2 commits in the Github repository.

Bitcoin Megastore and eule, did you upgrade in the last hour?

I am running the original client that was put up for download when the coin was announced. I am currently showing 91100 blocks total.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on June 13, 2013, 01:06:24 PM
I am running the original client that was put up for download when the coin was announced. I am currently showing 91100 blocks total.
Me too. I guess someone "precalculated" blocks to inject them into the chain, if such a thing is possible. The log i posted seems to imply that, but admittedly i'm not very good at reading logs. ^^


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 13, 2013, 01:08:32 PM
I've got some orphans from past hour that had been accepted (included a PoS block).

getmininginfo gives 91091




Someone is mining from mars GBT latency high and relayed through mercury


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 01:09:02 PM
I am running the original client that was put up for download when the coin was announced. I am currently showing 91100 blocks total.

In that case the reorg is coincidental and my Github commits did not break compatibility with the existing blockchain.

At this point, I'm going to say it was a timing coincidence with a failed 51% attack possibly.  Someone mining off-network attempting a 51% attack may have panicked when they saw me push the checkpoint at block 90000.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 13, 2013, 01:10:34 PM
Everyone that's showing a lower block count #, are you on a version of the client prior to my Github commits of about an hour ago?  I'm trying to determine now whether everyone having problems is or isn't on the client with the updated scrypt-jane library that I pushed to Github within the last hour.  If anyone showing the lower block count # did not upgrade, then it isn't connected to the changes.  If everyone showing the lower block count # did upgrade, then I'll revert the last 2 commits in the Github repository.

Bitcoin Megastore and eule, did you upgrade in the last hour?

i have a lower block count and im on the alpha client not the new beta version


and i think its unrelated to your update but YAC it has been very strange in the last 16 hours


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 13, 2013, 01:11:40 PM
In that case the reorg is coincidental and my Github commits did not break compatibility with the existing blockchain.

At this point, I'm going to say it was a timing coincidence with a failed 51% attack possibly.  Someone mining off-network attempting a 51% attack may have panicked when they saw me push the checkpoint at block 90000.

On that note, are there any win64 binaries available anywhere for these new client builds?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 01:12:03 PM
i have a lower block count and im on the alpha client not the new beta version

Roger that.  Looks like the timing was a coincidence then, and I won't revert the scrypt-jane library changes to the Github repository.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: liteuser on June 13, 2013, 01:12:15 PM

I am running the original client that was put up for download when the coin was announced. I am currently showing 91100 blocks total.

I'm using the original client too


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 13, 2013, 01:12:24 PM
Someone mining off-network attempting a 51% attack may have panicked when they saw me push the checkpoint at block 90000.

Where does one vote for best alt dev?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 13, 2013, 01:18:56 PM
my pool use original source code when it announce

is this a problem?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 13, 2013, 01:19:17 PM
FYI yac.coinmine.pl has 19mh of the 36 on the network as of right now


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 13, 2013, 01:24:25 PM
Just noting that my (old) client and yacexplorer are now at the same number of total blocks (91121).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 01:27:01 PM
No, I have Win32 custom built by some guy and it is few days old. I think what happened is that some miner upgraded to newest code, which is
broken somewhere.

So far it looks like everyone is actually on the same block # and blockchain that I'm on with the newest code, so most likely something else occurred unrelated to the code changes.

Anyone have a copy of their debug log going back a couple hours so we can get a better look at what happened?  I see eule posted the reorg itself but I'd like to get a look at what came before it.  I don't have a debug log handy since I wasn't running yacoind continuously while I was preparing the commits to Github.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 13, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
for those can have a look at "what have happened in an hour"

http://yac.ltcoin.net/blocks.php


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 02:01:08 PM
Thanks YacLives and Bitcoin Megastore for your debug logs.

PoS blocks 91036 and 91037 were staked by someone operating off-network (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and then reintroduced to the network, triggering the reorg and orphaning 75 blocks.  Anyone here have really good familiarity with the Novacoin PoS code?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on June 13, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
Thanks YacLives and Bitcoin Megastore for your debug logs.

PoS blocks 91036 and 91037 were staked by someone operating off-network (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and then reintroduced to the network, triggering the reorg and orphaning 75 blocks.  Anyone here have really good familiarity with the Novacoin PoS code?

Is this may be the reason for my problem?
This transaction is still not confirmed, and my wallet always says to stake=0 after -rescan and -reindex. And impossible to find this transaction in yacexplorer.

Code:
Status: 0/unconfirmed
Date: 6/12/13 01:55
Debit: 0.00 YAC
Net amount: -1189.99 YAC
Transaction ID: 7a86082a5685784ad33cec31a5300a611b9f4076a0c2b1d1d7f2c035a6d3e7e5

Staked coins must wait 520 blocks before they can return to balance and be spent.
When you generated this proof-of-stake block, it was broadcast to the network to be added to the block chain.
If it fails to get into the chain, it will change to "not accepted" and not be a valid stake.
This may occasionally happen if another node generates a proof-of-stake block within a few seconds of yours.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210434.msg2461662#msg2461662

Thank you!!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 13, 2013, 02:56:00 PM
FYI yac.coinmine.pl has 19mh of the 36 on the network as of right now

well, if there's only 36MH on the network, then there's the problem, yac.ltcoin.net is currently reporting is has 37 MH/sec...  Actually, this could be problematic as well as the mean hashrate is 72 MH/sec as reported on yacexplorer.tk


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 13, 2013, 03:02:20 PM
FYI yac.coinmine.pl has 19mh of the 36 on the network as of right now

well, if there's only 36MH on the network, then there's the problem, yac.ltcoin.net is currently reporting is has 37 MH/sec...  Actually, this could be problematic as well as the mean hashrate is 72 MH/sec as reported on yacexplorer.tk

In yacexplorer.tk graph, there's an extreme spike in recent hash rate, what's wrong with that?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on June 13, 2013, 03:05:46 PM
sairon: In yacexplorer, how often is the top stats (richest addresses, etc) updated? Looks like the numbers up there are form 6-1. Any way to update more frequently?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 13, 2013, 03:07:01 PM
FYI yac.coinmine.pl has 19mh of the 36 on the network as of right now

well, if there's only 36MH on the network, then there's the problem, yac.ltcoin.net is currently reporting is has 37 MH/sec...  Actually, this could be problematic as well as the mean hashrate is 72 MH/sec as reported on yacexplorer.tk

in my client it was 72MH 5 hours ago and didnt drop untill the last 2 or more hours to 36MH and now its back up so...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 13, 2013, 04:16:08 PM
FYI yac.coinmine.pl has 19mh of the 36 on the network as of right now

well, if there's only 36MH on the network, then there's the problem, yac.ltcoin.net is currently reporting is has 37 MH/sec...  Actually, this could be problematic as well as the mean hashrate is 72 MH/sec as reported on yacexplorer.tk

in my client it was 72MH 5 hours ago and didnt drop untill the last 2 or more hours to 36MH and now its back up so...

Your results in the client are going to be different depending on which client you have.  Because of the low CPU hashrate as N went up, WindMaster set it to report an average, but the hashrate is still pretty swingy.  That's why I was using the stats on yacexplorer.tk


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 13, 2013, 04:45:22 PM
Seems every proof of stake will make proof of work invalid.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: theprofileth on June 13, 2013, 05:12:22 PM
Um guys.... this isn't good
http://eypic.net/images/digyacoind.png
http://eypic.net/images/digyacnwn.png
They are literally taking all the blocks. I mean like nearly all of them. I have been watching them for a while and I continue to see almost all the their block confirmation values are consecutive numbers.  :'(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 05:15:05 PM
Seems every proof of stake will make proof of work invalid.

This may be partially correct, but I'm not in a good spot right now to go code diving.  The issue may be that if someone stakes PoS blocks while off-network, they may be able to trigger a reorg and orphan PoW blocks if they achieve a higher cumulative work for their off-network blockchain (meaning that the rest of the network did not stake enough PoS blocks in the meantime).  Someone may have just lucked out in this case and managed to stake two PoS blocks while the rest of the network had only staked one.  Not sure yet.  Someone who can go code diving should check how PoS blocks affect the cumulative work of a chain and under what circumstances someone off-network can make their own chain with higher cumulative work without actually having 51% of the hash power (or 51% of the coin stakes being generated).

From my recent investigation in the Elacoin client source while Elacoin was being 51%'d over and over, the answers will probably be in main.cpp in the AcceptBlock(), ConnectBlock() and CheckBlock() functions, or wherever else the Reorganize() function gets called from.  Normal behavior in Bitcoin and Litecoin derived coins is that the chain with the most cumulative work (difficulty) will win a reorg and block height has nothing to do with it, but I have not examined that part of the code on any PoS coin to see how PoS blocks factor into which chain has the highest cumulative work.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 05:19:27 PM
Um guys.... this isn't good

They are literally taking all the blocks. I mean like nearly all of them. I have been watching them for a while and I continue to see almost all the their block confirmation values are consecutive numbers.  :'(

They're not quite getting all the blocks, there's quite a few discontinuities.  However, we do have a situation here where one pool has (or is bordering on having) more than 50% of the network hash power.  The threat to YAC at the moment isn't the mythical highly-optimized scrypt+chacha GPU miners or botnets, it's that a large number of people have all gotten the bright idea to all mine on one single pool.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 05:29:10 PM
Block height matters. Nodes will always switch to longest blockchain.

Negative, not if the longer chain has lower cumulative work (cumulative difficulty, in PoW-only coins).  Otherwise someone could 51% any of the coins that get stalled out in "high difficulty land" simply by waiting a while, mining an off-network blockchain from just before the previous difficulty retarget, achieving a lower difficulty, then outrunning everyone else on the public blockchain while having much less than 51% of the hash power.  Someone attempted that unsuccessfully on Elacoin a few days back, and failed dismally.  Their chain was significantly longer (in terms of block height) than the public blockchain, but had been mined at a lower difficulty, so lost and was orphaned in preference to the public blockchain.

Remember, just hours ago we witnessed a reorg to a shorter blockchain.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 13, 2013, 05:35:11 PM
Block height matters. Nodes will always switch to longest blockchain.

Here's the code in the Litecoin client that chooses the winning (or "best") chain to reorg to:

Code:
       while (pindexIntermediate->pprev && pindexIntermediate->pprev->bnChainWork > pindexBest->bnChainWork)
        {
            vpindexSecondary.push_back(pindexIntermediate);
            pindexIntermediate = pindexIntermediate->pprev;
        }

        if (!vpindexSecondary.empty())
            printf("Postponing %i reconnects\n", vpindexSecondary.size());

        // Switch to new best branch
        if (!Reorganize(txdb, pindexIntermediate))

Note that block height is not considered anywhere in there, only the cumulative work of the chain (in bnChainWork) is used to make the decision.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 13, 2013, 05:42:49 PM
Um guys.... this isn't good

They are literally taking all the blocks. I mean like nearly all of them. I have been watching them for a while and I continue to see almost all the their block confirmation values are consecutive numbers.  :'(

They're not quite getting all the blocks, there's quite a few discontinuities.  However, we do have a situation here where one pool has (or is bordering on having) more than 50% of the network hash power.  The threat to YAC at the moment isn't the mythical highly-optimized scrypt+chacha GPU miners or botnets, it's that a large number of people have all gotten the bright idea to all mine on one single pool.

I don't see the information in yacexplorer.tk, but does the block store who it was relayed by?  I know for bitcoin, there's information about how large each pool is based on this, and btcguild was close to 50% at one point, but it was easy to spot this and they closed new user registration at the time to combat the problem.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 13, 2013, 06:05:15 PM
I checked the YAC pools I knew of to look for the rate each were reporting:

yac.ltcoin.net : 49.3 MH/sec
yac.coinmine.pl : 23.4 MH/sec
P2Pool : 8.94 MH/sec

apparently, there aren't any other options other than solo mining  ???

perhaps we need one more non P2P pool to give some more options to keep the work spread out? 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AGD on June 13, 2013, 06:11:40 PM
CPU mining dead til August?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on June 13, 2013, 06:19:03 PM
Isn't it common practice for pool operators to close registration when hashrate is too close to 50%?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on June 13, 2013, 06:22:26 PM
CPU mining dead til August?

Perhaps even beyond that if an updated (or optimized) GPU client is released that tackles N >= 8192. Really, there is no comparison whatsoever with regards to hashing power. For example my quad processor (4P) AMD (Opteron Abu Dhabi) can barely manage 160Kh/s even when pushed to the limit. My 4P Intel EP-4650 does better but still hovering 180-200Kh/s. These machines cost at least $3000-4000 each when self built and using parts from fleabay. Commercial ones can cost > $10K each. Combined together, their hashing power is equivalent to that of a $300 7950, which is almost funny. :P


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: x3maniac on June 13, 2013, 06:52:00 PM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

Break the amount you want to send into few smaller ones. It is very likely that you are attempting to send so much inputs that YACoin client
refuses to create such transaction due to transaction size and / or fee limits.

As far as I know, -keypool value works only when making new wallet. It specifies the number of keys wallet is to keep as reserve at all times
and it is useful only if person is not making wallet backups frequently but regulary and frequently creates many new addresses for receiving coins.
If both criteria are fulfilled but person uses default keypool of 100, it can happen that when rolling back to old backup some coins will be missing
due to keypool of old wallet being exhausted, e.g. newer wallet "knows" more used keys than older one.

Thats correct its for creating reserve addresses I was trying to get him to throw random ideas at the problem notice how i didnt format -keypool 1000 properly
that was also a work of deductive arts :) Sherlock would be so proud, but thanks mate

so this is what i have tried so far.

breaking it into smaller portions., i have a total of 100 yac stuck in there. went from trying to pull 90 to 45 to 1 and still get the error.

removed everything and allow to redownload block chain. still error

moved wallet to windows 7 with yac client. shows the amount. but still same error.

i'm out of idea  ???


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 13, 2013, 09:09:40 PM
Ok guys what's another good pool.  coinmine.pl is currently at 43% efficiency and dropping

Also why does the wallet always say checkpoint too old

**I moved here for now, seems to be working a lot better, no more constant rejected shares.
http://pool.yacointalk.com:8336/static/


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeleep on June 13, 2013, 10:10:19 PM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 13, 2013, 10:15:04 PM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

Sounds good I will try it :)

**I get pool 0 down or credentials invalid

That's ok, I can tell you are working on coinmine.pl.  Efficiency has gone way up and my miners are running much better.  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 13, 2013, 10:22:15 PM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

Break the amount you want to send into few smaller ones. It is very likely that you are attempting to send so much inputs that YACoin client
refuses to create such transaction due to transaction size and / or fee limits.

As far as I know, -keypool value works only when making new wallet. It specifies the number of keys wallet is to keep as reserve at all times
and it is useful only if person is not making wallet backups frequently but regulary and frequently creates many new addresses for receiving coins.
If both criteria are fulfilled but person uses default keypool of 100, it can happen that when rolling back to old backup some coins will be missing
due to keypool of old wallet being exhausted, e.g. newer wallet "knows" more used keys than older one.

Thats correct its for creating reserve addresses I was trying to get him to throw random ideas at the problem notice how i didnt format -keypool 1000 properly
that was also a work of deductive arts :) Sherlock would be so proud, but thanks mate

so this is what i have tried so far.

breaking it into smaller portions., i have a total of 100 yac stuck in there. went from trying to pull 90 to 45 to 1 and still get the error.

removed everything and allow to redownload block chain. still error

moved wallet to windows 7 with yac client. shows the amount. but still same error.

i'm out of idea  ???

Can i have you address ill send you a chunk of YAC and see if you can send it back


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 13, 2013, 10:26:44 PM
Thanks YacLives and Bitcoin Megastore for your debug logs.

PoS blocks 91036 and 91037 were staked by someone operating off-network (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and then reintroduced to the network, triggering the reorg and orphaning 75 blocks.  Anyone here have really good familiarity with the Novacoin PoS code?

Good to hear I didn't break YACoin...   ;)  


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeleep on June 13, 2013, 10:38:57 PM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

Sounds good I will try it :)

**I get pool 0 down or credentials invalid

That's ok, I can tell you are working on coinmine.pl.  Efficiency has gone way up and my miners are running much better.  :)

This is new pool and requires new registration plus setting up even first worker...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 13, 2013, 10:45:04 PM

This is new pool and requires new registration plus setting up even first worker...

Awesome it's working now.  There was a different URL on the site before, but I see the new one.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: kcanup on June 13, 2013, 11:15:48 PM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

So far pool new pool seems best, no rejects  ;D Im hoping there will be no issue with payouts  :P


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 13, 2013, 11:56:04 PM
no worry, not every one know how to attack 51%
so don't worry to much.

The most important current is that a proof of stake, even 0.1 coin will cause 100 blocks chain to be invalid.

seems every proof of stake will make some proof of work to be invalid.

i also have another YAC pool running , http://yac2.ltcoin.net  in another sever.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on June 14, 2013, 12:09:11 AM
no worry, not every one know how to attack 51%
so don't worry to much.

The most important current is that a proof of stake, even 0.1 coin will cause 100 blocks chain to be invalid.

seems every proof of stake will make some proof of work to be invalid.

i also have another YAC pool running , http://yac2.ltcoin.net  in another sever.

38,700 kh/s from a single user! Holy crap, that would be insane if it was real, lol.  :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 14, 2013, 06:12:19 AM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

I notice with this pool every time it finds a block the displayed hashrates dip down really low for a few minutes, every time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 14, 2013, 07:19:07 AM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

I notice with this pool every time it finds a block the displayed hashrates dip down really low for a few minutes, every time.

This could have something to do with the GPU miners stalling out, i was watching mine do it yesterday.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Balthazar on June 14, 2013, 07:27:21 AM
Seems every proof of stake will make proof of work invalid.

Normal behavior in Bitcoin and Litecoin derived coins is that the chain with the most cumulative work (difficulty) will win a reorg and block height has nothing to do with it

Block height matters. Nodes will always switch to longest blockchain.
That's incorrect. Only chain trust score or chain work matters. Clients will always switch to chain with highest trust score (ppc, nvc, ...) or highest work (pow-based systems).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: feeleep on June 14, 2013, 08:11:58 AM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

I notice with this pool every time it finds a block the displayed hashrates dip down really low for a few minutes, every time.

This could have something to do with the GPU miners stalling out, i was watching mine do it yesterday.



No - actually is was a way the pool calculates the hashrate - all shares were coming in normal speed just statistics were wrong. Now should be OK


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 14, 2013, 08:37:52 AM
hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

I notice with this pool every time it finds a block the displayed hashrates dip down really low for a few minutes, every time.

This could have something to do with the GPU miners stalling out, i was watching mine do it yesterday.



No - actually is was a way the pool calculates the hashrate - all shares were coming in normal speed just statistics were wrong. Now should be OK

Ok, good job, carry on  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: x3maniac on June 14, 2013, 01:25:58 PM
i have a problem sending funds

when i do
Code:
yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx
i get
Code:
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried
yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

Break the amount you want to send into few smaller ones. It is very likely that you are attempting to send so much inputs that YACoin client
refuses to create such transaction due to transaction size and / or fee limits.

As far as I know, -keypool value works only when making new wallet. It specifies the number of keys wallet is to keep as reserve at all times
and it is useful only if person is not making wallet backups frequently but regulary and frequently creates many new addresses for receiving coins.
If both criteria are fulfilled but person uses default keypool of 100, it can happen that when rolling back to old backup some coins will be missing
due to keypool of old wallet being exhausted, e.g. newer wallet "knows" more used keys than older one.

Thats correct its for creating reserve addresses I was trying to get him to throw random ideas at the problem notice how i didnt format -keypool 1000 properly
that was also a work of deductive arts :) Sherlock would be so proud, but thanks mate

so this is what i have tried so far.

breaking it into smaller portions., i have a total of 100 yac stuck in there. went from trying to pull 90 to 45 to 1 and still get the error.

removed everything and allow to redownload block chain. still error

moved wallet to windows 7 with yac client. shows the amount. but still same error.

i'm out of idea  ???

Can i have you address ill send you a chunk of YAC and see if you can send it back
didn't give that a try yet.

i'll send my self yac. don't want you getting yours stuck in my blackhole wallet. thanks for this advice


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: discophil on June 14, 2013, 02:56:02 PM
my wallet just started saying checkpoint too old. Any ideas?

wallet version:
v0.4.0.0-g32a928e-beta

guess this is the newest, cant see much info?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 14, 2013, 03:16:23 PM
v0.4.0-nvc-29-g0ecb398-yac-wm-alpha
is the latest github source you can build yourself. https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: discophil on June 14, 2013, 03:21:04 PM
v0.4.0-nvc-29-g0ecb398-yac-wm-alpha
is the latest github source you can build yourself. https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin

Cheers :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 15, 2013, 01:35:24 PM
Do you guys have any plan to promote YAC? Right now it is only limited to geeks. We'll need more CPUs to sustain the network before the next N++. :)

YAC needs a market place. That's all.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 15, 2013, 01:35:50 PM
Do you guys have any plan to promote YAC? Right now it is only limited to geeks. We'll need more CPUs to sustain the network before the next N++. :)

YAC has seen a bit of activity recently. The casino I have linked in my signature and also I just saw earlier that coingas.com and cryptosextoys.com is also now accepting YAC thanks to user fendlestick. I think when more stores and sites start adopting YAC the word will spread even more.

Other than that, the only way I see to spread awareness is to get some things that have been discussed in this thread done: mainly a user-friendly installer that is kept up-to-date with the latest builds for Windows bundled with a miner that has an easy-to-use interface. This would bring a lot of "non-geek" users to the table I think, if there was the prospect of mining coins in an easy-to-setup package. If I had the skills to do it, I'd help but unfortunately I don't so I will have to leave it up to someone else, but I think that is what YAC needs the most at this point.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 15, 2013, 10:47:53 PM
Updated windows build of Windmasters recent update to YACoin client can be found here >>http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,294.msg1114.html#msg1114



And this is an interesting read, if anyone is interested in pooling funds for such a thing, post or pm me http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,296.msg1120.html#msg1120


Enjoy.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: AndyRossy on June 18, 2013, 02:21:48 PM
latest windows binaries?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: fendlestick on June 18, 2013, 02:29:40 PM
Do you guys have any plan to promote YAC? Right now it is only limited to geeks. We'll need more CPUs to sustain the network before the next N++. :)

YAC has seen a bit of activity recently. The casino I have linked in my signature and also I just saw earlier that coingas.com and cryptosextoys.com is also now accepting YAC thanks to user fendlestick. I think when more stores and sites start adopting YAC the word will spread even more.

Other than that, the only way I see to spread awareness is to get some things that have been discussed in this thread done: mainly a user-friendly installer that is kept up-to-date with the latest builds for Windows bundled with a miner that has an easy-to-use interface. This would bring a lot of "non-geek" users to the table I think, if there was the prospect of mining coins in an easy-to-setup package. If I had the skills to do it, I'd help but unfortunately I don't so I will have to leave it up to someone else, but I think that is what YAC needs the most at this point.

Auto updater included please.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 18, 2013, 03:55:20 PM

Auto updater included please.

That would be a cool feature for all coins to implement. The problem would be determining what everyone should update to - the only way (since centralization is not an option) to do something like that that I can think of is a P2P consensus on what is the newest client.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 18, 2013, 04:26:53 PM
Updated windows build of Windmasters recent update to YACoin client can be found here >>http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,294.msg1114.html#msg1114

It crashes on every start right after attempting to make outgoing connections. WinXP SP3 32-bit.

the cpu ratio is closer to 2:1 in terms of kh/s for ltc vs yac. for cpu its more profitable to mine yac and for gpu its even at current prices.

In the long run and if everybody did the same GPU mining LTC and trading for YACs would end being more profitable, as price would rise instead of increasing the supply.

Don't forget that YAC block reward decreases with difficulty going up. More hashrate means YAC price must go up else mining becomes unprofitable.

[BOUNTY]

Anyway, is there someone skilled enough to add coin control to YACoin client? More info here > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144331.0
I'll pay 1 BTC for the job which must include source code and working Win32 and 64 bit binaries. Others are welcomed to add some coins to bounty.

Bounty is still valid.

I'd try a brand new thread for the bounty, it will get a lot more exposure.  There are a lot of programmers that aren't following individual threads, like this one, etc.  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 18, 2013, 04:37:27 PM
Very good point


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 18, 2013, 05:41:06 PM
After looking at the bitcoin pull request, it looks like the main concern is, has enough testing been completed to implement such a potentially (though not likely) dangerous feature. 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 19, 2013, 04:42:31 AM
firstly i will apologize for my frustration and im not really pointing my finger at any one person but im about to lose my shit with this coin and its devs or lack of rather.

we have our talent spread all over the internet and no one has a clue what the current plan or update is of this damn coin.

we have all these fantastic ideas that we post here and there and none of them get done,and they keep piling up all while
we cant even get proper clients built for every damn os, the coin is two months old and this thread is 37 pages long!!!

this coin sells itself and the development and attention will come in time but at least WM can you be a little more transparent about your thoughts
and plans and can you say something about making a client that works, because like it or not people look to you and will follow your lead!
 i mean that is the simplest of things that we need to happen we cant deploy the thing.
because it dosnt work on certain os and offers no features at all i mean we dont even have a damn testnet how are pools meant to test

i really think this is a piss poor effort from alot of you and i think it really, like always boils down to leadership and people trying to keep it quiet so they can mine more
but thats just backwars you make mining proifitable and eco freindly by increasing its value and accesability! (im not attacking anyone in pert so please dont focus on the wrong part of my point here)

now in saying all of this i could be a bit naive to the logistics of such things but we need to build a damn foundation and that means we need a working client deploy sytem
because im sick of seeing people having to answer so many questions about where to get one that is current or that even works...keep in mind that people dont want to have to surf so many
damn pages just to find a working client or even how to install the thing having to change folder options to show appdata to make a config file or make a damn bat file just to run your miner

i know all this is open source but you all have stake here and thats the incentive enough its not about short term investment its about calculating your time vs the end result of the investment and im telling you something most of you know already not a damn chance your gonna get more money for the same time you spend on this working a job or small business then you will when you sell up  


now i see people working on GPU miners and trying to make it profitable or working on this and that but i dont see anyone trying to work on a client with features to be flexible enough to build stuff around instead of
building it to fit everything

id really like to see something along the lines of the gui recognising the .exe's and what not in a folder for the client and giving them as a option to use or import a new miner from where ever you chose to download it to within 3 or less clicks done then add the url to your pool and enter your userpass and away you go, that way no need to build it around miner programs but miners have to be built around that one premise..anyhow i think ive got my point across sorry for the tldr post but i cant be the only one frustrated at this

just keep in mind i understand people are busy and have different projects but no one is even talking about this shit or standing up to get it cracking so i wonder what the hell is going on and i watch this thread and the forums everyday so imagine what anyone else thinks that dosnt. we dont need to go overboard with promo but we do need to start at the basics



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 19, 2013, 05:15:58 AM
Are you checking the yacointalk forum?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 19, 2013, 05:27:34 AM
YAC 's price deceasing.

GPU miners have left yac.

what's have done in the two months about YAC's bugs?

for example,

can't submit work when encrypt wallet.

"proof of stake" always destroy some "proof of work".


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 19, 2013, 05:33:59 AM
The yacoin network has been 75-100Mhash for a couple weeks now.

I would expect a good price on Yacoin some time after August 13.

 ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 19, 2013, 07:08:20 AM
firstly i will apologize for my frustration and im not really pointing my finger at any one person but im about to lose my shit with this coin and its devs or lack of rather.

we have our talent spread all over the internet and no one has a clue what the current plan or update is of this damn coin.

we have all these fantastic ideas that we post here and there and none of them get done,and they keep piling up all while
we cant even get proper clients built for every damn os, the coin is two months old and this thread is 37 pages long!!!

this coin sells itself and the development and attention will come in time but at least WM can you be a little more transparent about your thoughts
and plans and can you say something about making a client that works, because like it or not people look to you and will follow your lead!
 i mean that is the simplest of things that we need to happen we cant deploy the thing.
because it dosnt work on certain os and offers no features at all i mean we dont even have a damn testnet how are pools meant to test

i really think this is a piss poor effort from alot of you and i think it really, like always boils down to leadership and people trying to keep it quiet so they can mine more
but thats just backwars you make mining proifitable and eco freindly by increasing its value and accesability! (im not attacking anyone in pert so please dont focus on the wrong part of my point here)

now in saying all of this i could be a bit naive to the logistics of such things but we need to build a damn foundation and that means we need a working client deploy sytem
because im sick of seeing people having to answer so many questions about where to get one that is current or that even works...keep in mind that people dont want to have to surf so many
damn pages just to find a working client or even how to install the thing having to change folder options to show appdata to make a config file or make a damn bat file just to run your miner

i know all this is open source but you all have stake here and thats the incentive enough its not about short term investment its about calculating your time vs the end result of the investment and im telling you something most of you know already not a damn chance your gonna get more money for the same time you spend on this working a job or small business then you will when you sell up  


now i see people working on GPU miners and trying to make it profitable or working on this and that but i dont see anyone trying to work on a client with features to be flexible enough to build stuff around instead of
building it to fit everything

id really like to see something along the lines of the gui recognising the .exe's and what not in a folder for the client and giving them as a option to use or import a new miner from where ever you chose to download it to within 3 or less clicks done then add the url to your pool and enter your userpass and away you go, that way no need to build it around miner programs but miners have to be built around that one premise..anyhow i think ive got my point across sorry for the tldr post but i cant be the only one frustrated at this

just keep in mind i understand people are busy and have different projects but no one is even talking about this shit or standing up to get it cracking so i wonder what the hell is going on and i watch this thread and the forums everyday so imagine what anyone else thinks that dosnt. we dont need to go overboard with promo but we do need to start at the basics



I think you can't ask other people to do anything no matter what reason. Everyone should be responsible for his own action. That means if you want to buy in YAC, then you need to promote it by your own (for example, provide some online services, or even improve the client by yourself.) or you just willing to take the risk and you know the risk can bring you fortune or eat your investment.

You're asking some one to fulfill your will to make some money. This is really stupid and naive, don't act like a baby.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 19, 2013, 07:45:06 AM
I'd like to see yacoin.org frontpage updated more often with better clients. There needs to be official release channel that doesn't include pocopoco anymore.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sunce86 on June 19, 2013, 08:13:14 AM
I'd like to see yacoin.org frontpage updated more often with better clients. There needs to be official release channel that doesn't include pocopoco anymore.

Are you willing to pay for that or do it yourself? If not, why should someone do it for you? You see, this board and cryptocoin community in general
is full of incompetent people demanding a lot of things and expecting to get them for free. That is not how Open Source projects work. You either
put your time and / or money where your mouth is or you stay quiet.

+1


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 19, 2013, 08:27:36 AM
There's actually a basic facelift for yacoin.org sent to the admin days ago, but it hasn't gone up yet. So a couple of us are talking of setting up an alternative homepage.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on June 19, 2013, 08:28:52 AM
can't submit work when encrypt wallet.

"proof of stake" always destroy some "proof of work".

Use separate wallet for mining. PoS is more valuable than PoW, check PPC explorer > http://ppc.cryptocoinexplorer.com/chain/PPCoin

Yes, proof of stake is good, but i don't hope it will destroy "proof of work"


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Balthazar on June 19, 2013, 09:50:03 AM
Unfortunately, current block weighting implementation has the fundamental flaws. As the result, YaC is vulnerable to Stake-based double-spend. YAC developers must to do something with this as soon as possible. Centralized checkpointing, for example, will workaround this and provide some time to implement the new block weighting algorithm.

P.S. NovaCoin is not affected, it has checkpoints and introduces balanced weighting in 0.4.3. This prevents accidental chain forks and pure PoS double-spend/DoS attacks possibility.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on June 19, 2013, 10:47:03 AM
There's actually a basic facelift for yacoin.org sent to the admin days ago, but it hasn't gone up yet. So a couple of us are talking of setting up an alternative homepage.

I am the owner of yaco.in and i can host the website on my server. I can also make the web site, but i need help for the content, because i'am not english spoken...
let me know if i can do something to help..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 19, 2013, 12:54:02 PM
There's actually a basic facelift for yacoin.org sent to the admin days ago, but it hasn't gone up yet. So a couple of us are talking of setting up an alternative homepage.

I am the owner of yaco.in and i can host the website on my server. I can also make the web site, but i need help for the content, because i'am not english spoken...
let me know if i can do something to help..

You can host the web and the client as long as the client won't make a fork of the block-chain. ;)
If you need the built of the client, just let us know, we can aid for that.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 19, 2013, 02:09:08 PM
firstly i will apologize for my frustration and im not really pointing my finger at any one person but im about to lose my shit with this coin and its devs or lack of rather.

i really think this is a piss poor effort from alot of you and i think it really, like always boils down to leadership and people trying to keep it quiet so they can mine more
but thats just backwars you make mining proifitable and eco freindly by increasing its value and accesability! (im not attacking anyone in pert so please dont focus on the wrong part of my point here)

Possibly I missed your git pull request with all the contributions and patches you've made to help give back to the community by helping to improve the YACoin client code.  Can you send them again?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 19, 2013, 02:20:34 PM
firstly i will apologize for my frustration and im not really pointing my finger at any one person but im about to lose my shit with this coin and its devs or lack of rather.

i really think this is a piss poor effort from alot of you and i think it really, like always boils down to leadership and people trying to keep it quiet so they can mine more
but thats just backwars you make mining proifitable and eco freindly by increasing its value and accesability! (im not attacking anyone in pert so please dont focus on the wrong part of my point here)

Possibly I missed your git pull request with all the contributions and patches you've made to help give back to the community by helping to improve the YACoin client code.  Can you send them again?


 ;D +1

...speaking of.... gotta go remind ali1234 about the pull request on cpuminer...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: YacLives on June 19, 2013, 02:42:51 PM
lol i achieved what i set out to do  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on June 19, 2013, 03:30:59 PM
I think yacoin is in a good spot.  If you looked at the amount of work and intelligent thought invested in the coin and compare it to the market cap, I think it is poised for growth.  Imagine if it became more mainstream off the bat... I think you would have seen a lot of people buy-in for a little bit and then drop it for a similar alternative.  Right now, I'm pretty sure OneCoin is the only alt trying to copycat yacoin.  I imagine one might be developed with a higher N value starting off.  I think it is important that yacoin lies relatively low for a few more N-value increases.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 19, 2013, 03:37:49 PM
Mmh, would it be possible to know at any moment how many coins are maturing for PoS and say, if a big wallet is maturing in the next hour, require more confirmations than normal?

Edit: Ok, the wallet could be split. Still, could the possibility of a PoS double spend be anticipated by looking at how many coins are maturing in the network?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on June 19, 2013, 04:04:06 PM
lol i achieved what i set out to do  ;)

Get a sarcastic comment about your post from WindMaster while probably cheesing him off in the process?  Bravo.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Balthazar on June 19, 2013, 04:22:52 PM
Mmh, would it be possible to know at any moment how many coins are maturing for PoS and say, if a big wallet is maturing in the next hour, require more confirmations than normal?

Edit: Ok, the wallet could be split. Still, could the possibility of a PoS double spend be anticipated by looking at how many coins are maturing in the network?
There is no way to detect active stake holder before his chain will be published. Besides, confirmations amount doesn't matter, malicious stakeholder could overwrite more than more than billion pow blocks by publishing one stake.

The only solution is enable broadcasted checkpointing immediately to workaround this problem. It will give some time to think about better solution.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sunny King on June 19, 2013, 04:33:18 PM
It's not an issue when PoS becomes common as there should be more PoS blocks than PoW blocks, so you wouldn't see long consecutive PoW blocks to be orphaned by a malicious PoS minter.

Checkpoint should be enabled for any ppcoin forks.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 19, 2013, 04:34:40 PM
Mmh, would it be possible to know at any moment how many coins are maturing for PoS and say, if a big wallet is maturing in the next hour, require more confirmations than normal?

Edit: Ok, the wallet could be split. Still, could the possibility of a PoS double spend be anticipated by looking at how many coins are maturing in the network?
There is no way to detect active stake holder before his chain will be published. Besides, confirmations amount doesn't matter, malicious stakeholder could overwrite more than more than billion of pow blocks by publishing one stake.

The only solution is enable broadcasted checkpointing immediately to workaround this problem. It will give some time to think about better solution.

How could he overwrite the blocks already confirmed? This is insane!
How is the PoS block appended into the blockchain? If it's appended to the chain, how could he overwrite?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 19, 2013, 04:36:36 PM
TBH, I don't like the checkpointing thing, it makes things complex & centralized.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Balthazar on June 19, 2013, 04:51:01 PM
It's not an issue when PoS becomes common as there should be more PoS blocks than PoW blocks, so you wouldn't see long consecutive PoW blocks to be orphaned by a malicious PoS minter.

Checkpoint should be enabled for any ppcoin forks.
Actually, it's an issue, because it takes some time to make PoS common for the chain. This makes network vulnerable until there is not enough stake weight in opposition to attacker. And checkpointing is not more than workaround for this.

Also there is another problem... Unlike PoW hashing rate, stake weight could be used multiple times without any overhead. It allows attacker to repeat his attempts to generate consecutive stakes until he will get lucky enough. And there is high probability to success without holding large stake, 20-25% of total weight (not coins) will be more than enough.

You can retry your attempt to generate consecutive stakes 1000, 50000 or 1 million times without any problem, using the same outputs. You should always hold it in the mind. :)

So, with the current weighting scheme you should always have checkpointing enabled, even if there is enough total stake weight. You can't remove checkpointing without altering block weighting implementation, because it's dangerous. And you can't alter it without making system less energy efficient...  ;)

But I think that energy-efficiency could be partially sacrificed in favor of security.

// EDIT


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Balthazar on June 19, 2013, 04:54:48 PM
TBH, I don't like the checkpointing thing, it makes things complex & centralized.
It's your choice. But there is no way to resolve this weighting scheme flaw without checkpointing.

Even if you will implement new trust score calculation method, it will introduce chain fork, so you still need grace period with checkpointing.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 19, 2013, 05:03:10 PM
TBH, I don't like the checkpointing thing, it makes things complex & centralized.
It's your choice. But there is no way to resolve this weighting scheme flaw without checkpointing.

If you will implement new trust score calculation method, it will introduce chain fork, so you still need grace period with checkpointing.

I see. When I see the checkpointing validation code "... pfrom->Misbehaving(100);". This is interesting and make me laugh and make me remind some scenarios in my childhood playing house-holding games. :D

And then I review code "bool CBlock::CheckBlock(bool fCheckPOW, bool fCheckMerkleRoot) const",
OMHOLYGOD, this code makes me crazy.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Balthazar on June 19, 2013, 06:12:35 PM
Quote
Posted on: Today at 08:51:01 PM
Updated.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on June 19, 2013, 07:42:19 PM
OMHOLYGOD, this code makes me crazy.

+=1  :o


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 19, 2013, 08:20:13 PM
Thanks for all the developers working on this. I've never seen so many working together. Aside from bitcoin that is.
 
;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sunce86 on June 20, 2013, 08:50:22 AM
Is it possible that ppl are selling their hard earned yacoins for 0.00016... What a bunch od stupid idiots  ???


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 20, 2013, 01:30:45 PM
Favicon for Yacoin sites. Yacoin Blue (http://www.favicon.cc/?action=icon&file_id=642822)

http://i.imgur.com/BDVfAPk.png as inspiration. Thanks dcl595


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mikaelh on June 20, 2013, 01:36:49 PM
Is it possible that ppl are selling their hard earned yacoins for 0.00016... What a bunch od stupid idiots  ???

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232241.msg2522690#msg2522690

I have 50 BTC ready to be invested in YAC but I ain't gonna be buying unless price drops to 0.000085 or so. Not only that paying more makes no
sense from trader perspective, but investing 50 BTC in altcoin which is still not super strong (lacks huge support by miners) is very risky move.

The price will probably go up a bit in 5 days time because the Nfactor is going to change. Hashing rate will drop to about 50% and difficulty will take a while to adjust.

I have a fun little countdown page for the Nfactor:
http://muuttuja.org/yacoin/countdown/


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 20, 2013, 01:50:12 PM
Favicon for Yacoin sites. Yacoin Blue (http://www.favicon.cc/?action=icon&file_id=642822)

http://i.imgur.com/BDVfAPk.png as inspiration. Thanks dcl595

Hey, thanks for that, I actually did a test colour sheet, I can make any of the combinations on request, or there is a psd knocking around in one of these threads if anyone wants to mod it themselves

http://i.imgur.com/nVzTRPy.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 20, 2013, 01:50:52 PM
Favicon for Yacoin sites. Yacoin Blue (http://www.favicon.cc/?action=icon&file_id=642822)

http://i.imgur.com/BDVfAPk.png as inspiration. Thanks dcl595

Although it's quite clean image. But I'm not fond of it because it's too simple. I prefer complex images and unique and art or beauty.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 20, 2013, 01:52:24 PM
Favicon for Yacoin sites. Yacoin Blue (http://www.favicon.cc/?action=icon&file_id=642822)

http://i.imgur.com/BDVfAPk.png as inspiration. Thanks dcl595

Hey, thanks for that, I actually did a test colour sheet, I can make any of the combinations on request, or there is a psd knocking around in one of these threads if anyone wants to mod it themselves

http://i.imgur.com/nVzTRPy.jpg

Why not using a circle, and the Y in it is pale too simple!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 20, 2013, 01:53:51 PM
Is it possible that ppl are selling their hard earned yacoins for 0.00016... What a bunch od stupid idiots  ???

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232241.msg2522690#msg2522690

I have 50 BTC ready to be invested in YAC but I ain't gonna be buying unless price drops to 0.000085 or so. Not only that paying more makes no
sense from trader perspective, but investing 50 BTC in altcoin which is still not super strong (lacks huge support by miners) is very risky move.

The price will probably go up a bit in 5 days time because the Nfactor is going to change. Hashing rate will drop to about 50% and difficulty will take a while to adjust.

It makes no difference how low hashrate will become, what matters is how many YAC one gets in some period of time using some hardware. Since
difficulty is about to drop, reward per block will go up so one will be getting more YAC with same hardware than now. In other words, what matters
is your % of total hashrate.

You're right, currently YAC still has a need to improve the server/client. So the PoS blocks can not threat the whole network.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 20, 2013, 01:59:42 PM
http://i.imgur.com/nVzTRPy.jpg

Why not using a circle, and the Y in it is pale too simple!

Circle is becoming boring, but I'd try to use 3D cube and 3 sides of it for Y and then draw horizontal line on top surface but I'm too lazy now.  :D

Considered that myself, might give it a go


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 20, 2013, 02:10:15 PM
Circle is becoming boring, but I'd try to use 3D cube and 3 sides of it for Y and then draw horizontal line on top surface but I'm too lazy now.  :D
Considered that myself, might give it a go

That actually sounds very cool.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 20, 2013, 02:19:07 PM
http://i.imgur.com/nVzTRPy.jpg

Why not using a circle, and the Y in it is pale too simple!

Circle is becoming boring, but I'd try to use 3D cube and 3 edges of it for Y and then draw horizontal line on top surface but I'm too lazy now.

Bahh, here it is, the ultimate provocation!  :D

http://i.imgur.com/czlww5X.jpg

Hah, this is interesting. BFL makes a lot of people heart breaking...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: hanzac on June 20, 2013, 02:22:21 PM
http://i.imgur.com/nVzTRPy.jpg

Why not using a circle, and the Y in it is pale too simple!

Circle is becoming boring, but I'd try to use 3D cube and 3 sides of it for Y and then draw horizontal line on top surface but I'm too lazy now.  :D

Considered that myself, might give it a go

Can you use a leave & Y as its stem! Cool, is it?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on June 20, 2013, 02:56:30 PM
Is it possible that ppl are selling their hard earned yacoins for 0.00016... What a bunch od stupid idiots  ???

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232241.msg2522690#msg2522690

I have 50 BTC ready to be invested in YAC but I ain't gonna be buying unless price drops to 0.000085 or so. Not only that paying more makes no
sense from trader perspective, but investing 50 BTC in altcoin which is still not super strong (lacks huge support by miners) is very risky move.

The price will probably go up a bit in 5 days time because the Nfactor is going to change. Hashing rate will drop to about 50% and difficulty will take a while to adjust.

It makes no difference how low hashrate will become, what matters is how many YAC one gets in some period of time using some hardware. Since
difficulty is about to drop, reward per block will go up so one will be getting more YAC with same hardware than now. In other words, what matters
is your % of total hashrate.

Right, so your total % of hashrate will decrease with the N-value increase as it becomes more attractive for CPUs to mine.  You also have to consider the % of PoS blocks, and how they will continue to increase over time, which encourages people to hoard/save.  Of course, you then have the speculation of all of this occuring and when it occurs.  Add in the factor of btc-e possibly adding it in the near future.  This idea that you can determine the price of yacoin by comparing it to how profitable it is to mine with a GPU versus bitcoin at this point in time is absurd.  


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 20, 2013, 03:00:17 PM
Something like this would rock: http://www.ilikewallpaper.net/ipad-wallpaper/3D-Cube-Maze/9856


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 21, 2013, 06:43:57 PM
Removed to clear up thread, please see my sig for logo links  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 21, 2013, 07:06:17 PM
Nice, reminds me a bit of HTML5's logo.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: fendlestick on June 21, 2013, 07:07:48 PM
Thanks! I like the flat version.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: BlazinBeaches on June 21, 2013, 07:20:46 PM
The shape resembles superman.  I think coin logos should be round.  Although that orange one looks kind of cool.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Eli0t on June 21, 2013, 08:06:51 PM
could use a better font but nice design


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: neo101one on June 22, 2013, 11:56:38 PM
The shape resembles superman.  I think coin logos should be round.  Although that orange one looks kind of cool.
I think using a different shape for a coin symbol will make it stand out more.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 23, 2013, 01:33:57 PM
Can someone try this with a capital Y in a more angular font?

https://bitcointalk.org/useravatars/avatar_88678.png


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 23, 2013, 01:42:30 PM
Something like this?

http://i.imgur.com/YzoxCCW.png

EDIT: Resized to be smaller.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 23, 2013, 02:31:41 PM
Removed to clear up thread please see my sig link for logos made :

Preview http://i.imgur.com/rJFyE8x.png


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 23, 2013, 02:50:33 PM
Personally I prefer the flat graphics without shading. Gradients tend to look a bit dated in keeping with recent design trends.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on June 23, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
What's wrong with the Y symbol? It's simple, reminiscent of BTC and well done imo.  :P


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on June 23, 2013, 04:10:49 PM
sairon: In yacexplorer, how often is the top stats (richest addresses, etc) updated? Looks like the numbers up there are form 6-1. Any way to update more frequently?

It's updated manually and the database queries take quite a long time to complete. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 23, 2013, 05:00:14 PM
Another idea that incorporates the line through the Y, in the style of the Bitcoin logo.

http://i.imgur.com/eVv1pT3.png


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on June 23, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
Um... I thought the genius of the Ɏ was multifaceted....

1) It combines the Y (Your) and the A (Alternate) into one symbol in a simple yet interesting way (upside-down A part of the Y).

2) It departs from the childish, ugly, unprofessional Yac (like the animal Yak) imagery.  ('Yah-Coin' not 'Yak-Coin')

3) It can be typed on your keyboard.

4) The way the line extends, it denotes what yacoin intends to be--money (ie the $ sign).


The only negative is the resemblance to the Chinese Yen symbol which actually might help it in widespread adoption?


Hate to sound like a discouraging naysayer, but I feel these 'improvements' don't make much sense. :(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on June 23, 2013, 07:25:10 PM

What do you think of this one ?

http://i.imgur.com/syGbXuQ.png


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on June 24, 2013, 03:16:13 PM
Guys, do you see Y there? Sex sells (a lot), get my drift?


If someone good at photoshop can add the horizontal line... :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: FuzzyBear on June 24, 2013, 11:10:09 PM
Guys, do you see Y there? Sex sells (a lot), get my drift?


If someone good at photoshop can add the horizontal line... :)

Well i not the best at photoshop but i gave it a shot... how i do??

http://i.imgur.com/PifHA7o.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on June 24, 2013, 11:23:22 PM
http://i.imgur.com/trQQ7ca.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on June 25, 2013, 12:51:03 AM
Guys, do you see Y there? Sex sells (a lot), get my drift?


If someone good at photoshop can add the horizontal line... :)

Well i not the best at photoshop but i gave it a shot... how i do??


Haha almost perfect... just pick the string bikini pic and the line at the top.  I love where this thread is going... :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: fendlestick on June 25, 2013, 12:53:05 AM
Great!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 25, 2013, 08:24:35 PM
Anyways the github version got another checkpoint at 105000 blocks. Anyone compiling from source should update.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 25, 2013, 08:37:36 PM
Anyways the github version got another checkpoint at 105000 blocks. Anyone compiling from source should update.

Thanks for the info. If anyone compiles Windows binaries please let me know I'd like to update my client eventually and I don't really have the means to compile myself.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on June 26, 2013, 05:57:01 AM
YaCoin has now surpassed CNC and DGC in marketcap :)

In top 10... a relatively slow, quiet adoption is good

http://coinmarketcap.com/



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on June 26, 2013, 04:11:06 PM
Copy of my post from the ybcoin thread, probably more relevant here:

Also, YAC will be unminable by GPUs after the next N change.

Not really correct, I'm not sure why people have continued repeating that assumption.  It was mtrlt's modified (and unreleased) Reaper kernel that had a problem with N >= 8192.  That's not the kernel everyone else is mining with and has no connection with hanzac's OpenCL kernel.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 26, 2013, 07:48:31 PM
Exciting times are ahead of us friends! *holds up stein with Dr. Pepper in it*

 ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: neotrix on June 27, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
I'm thinking to add YAC to crypto-trade.com. Pair BTC/YAC


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on June 27, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
I'm thinking to add YAC to crypto-trade.com. Pair BTC/YAC

That would be awesome.  :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on June 27, 2013, 04:26:00 PM
I'm thinking to add YAC to crypto-trade.com. Pair BTC/YAC

That'd be great. The coin is nearing its 2 month and it doesn't show any signs of fatigue or stress.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on June 29, 2013, 03:26:15 AM
It's been pretty quiet in here the past few days. Anything going on in the world of YAC? Mining and exchange rate seems stable, and the coin is doing very well so far. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on June 29, 2013, 03:48:01 AM
Just mining and watching the bitcoin rollercoaster.   :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 30, 2013, 06:25:09 AM
Whats your opinion on creating and distributing Ubuntu debs for Yacoin? Does the unofficial "official" ubuntu package need libdb-4.8 or can I compile it with latest libraries?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on June 30, 2013, 10:22:51 PM
[ANN][YAC] Yacointip Reddit bot
http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,347.0.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/yacointip
http://www.reddit.com/r/yacointip/wiki/


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on June 30, 2013, 10:49:52 PM
That's cool, third tipbot after bitcoin and litecoin.  :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on July 01, 2013, 11:19:28 AM
I have been tipping a few people on reddit but got responses like "yacoin is just a stupid worthless altcoin" and was downvoted a bit. Looks like the public opinion of YAC is not so great. :c


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on July 01, 2013, 11:26:12 AM
Opinion is directly proportional to how much of other coins they hold.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on July 01, 2013, 01:20:41 PM
Opinion is directly proportional to how much of other coins they hold.

true dat


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: azwccc on July 01, 2013, 01:27:46 PM
since the ori dev disappeared, why not this ongoing development team, especially Windmaster start a new coin with well maintenance?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on July 01, 2013, 02:41:33 PM
Can anyone provide a list of peers that accept inbound connections? I'm having a hell of a time finding any. Also, my client doesn't seem to be able to connect to the IRC server when it starts up. (I have the p2p port allowed through on my firewall).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on July 01, 2013, 07:18:23 PM
Yacoin just passed Digitalcoin in market cap. =3


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on July 01, 2013, 07:42:30 PM
Yacoin just passed Digitalcoin in market cap. =3


Yep, and fairly stable at just over $100k market cap as well. Two big milestones for YACoin. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on July 01, 2013, 07:57:12 PM
Yacoin just passed Digitalcoin in market cap. =3


Yep, and fairly stable at just over $100k market cap as well. Two big milestones for YACoin. :)

Yacoin had already achieved both of these milestones before... but still all good things right now!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on July 01, 2013, 11:36:23 PM
wow. hashrate went from 40 to 80 Mh/s in 48 hours. it's good to see difficulty is going back above 1. One thing I hope is that coinbase transaction amount decreases over time like it has for PPcoin because that gives investors confidence I think. but with the N changes of YAC and difficulty crashes we have seen the opposite.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on July 03, 2013, 08:13:23 PM
Hm.. is it just me or is the difficulty not adjusting high enough for the current hash rate?

If you go back to N value of 1 it's something like 83 Ghash on the network right now and we're only at a diff of 0.933. That's an insane amount of hash rate for a scrypt based coin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on July 03, 2013, 08:30:39 PM
Hm.. is it just me or is the difficulty not adjusting high enough for the current hash rate?

If you go back to N value of 1 it's something like 83 Ghash on the network right now and we're only at a diff of 0.933. That's an insane amount of hash rate for a scrypt based coin.


But YAC's N  has never been 1.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mikaelh on July 04, 2013, 12:57:17 PM
Is there a YAC miner for nVidia GPUs (or cudaminer for YAC)?

Not at the moment.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Wolf Rainer on July 04, 2013, 12:58:43 PM
What are the new things under development?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 04, 2013, 06:23:38 PM
Current things under development:

1. Update yacoin.org with latest builds for all platforms
  • Windows
    • 32bit
    • 64bit
  • Mac
  • Linux
    • Binary.tar.gz
    • Ubuntu PPA
  • Source

- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.
- I'd like to see updated Windows builds from mikaelh or hanzac and call them official.
- crendore built the latest known Mac build. I'd like to see a new one.
- I'm trying to provide a Ubuntu PPA. If it fails someone with more skills can join in.
- I guess someone should research gitian.org for the bitcoin way to build stuff.

2. Run a poll on the official name for YAC
  • Yet Another Coin
  • Your Alternative Coin
  • Your Alternative Currency
  • ...

3. Run a design contest for Logo, Coin, Icon, Favicon
  • Y theme
  • YAK theme
  • Coin theme


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: kcanup on July 04, 2013, 06:48:44 PM
Current things under development:

1. Update yacoin.org with latest builds for all platforms
  • Windows
    • 32bit
    • 64bit
  • Mac
  • Linux
    • Binary.tar.gz
    • Ubuntu PPA
  • Source

- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.
- I'd like to see updated Windows builds from mikaelh or hanzac and call them official.
- crendore built the latest known Mac build. I'd like to see a new one.
- I'm trying to provide a Ubuntu PPA. If it fails someone with more skills can join in.
- I guess someone should research gitian.org for the bitcoin way to build stuff.

2. Run a poll on the official name for YAC
  • Yet Another Coin
  • Your Alternative Coin
  • Your Alternative Currency
  • ...

3. Run a design contest for Logo, Coin, Icon, Favicon
  • Y theme
  • YAK theme
  • Coin theme

Oh Cool. Thanks for update   :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 04, 2013, 08:13:08 PM
[ANN][YAC] Ubuntu PPA Stable releases

ppa:yacoin/yacoin (https://launchpad.net/~yacoin/+archive/yacoin)

Code:
sudo apt-add-repository ppa:yacoin/yacoin
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install yacoin-qt
sudo apt-get install yacoind

** Warning to all current Ubuntu Yacoin users
This repository uses LibDB 4.8 from the Bitcoin PPA to compile the binaries and uses it to open the wallet database.

Your own github source compiled yacoin-qt might have created a wallet with libDB 5.1. In that case the wallet will not open with this version.

If you migrate to using this PPA Yacoin client, you need to create a new wallet and use the old client to send your YACs to the new wallet.
(or you can dumpprivkey and importprivkey if you know how)

Backup your wallet.dat before trying any new software
Code:
cp ~/.yacoin/wallet.dat ~/.yacoin/wallet.dat.bak


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: amytheplanarshift on July 04, 2013, 09:09:10 PM
[ANN][YAC] Ubuntu PPA Stable releases

ppa:yacoin/yacoin (https://launchpad.net/~yacoin/+archive/yacoin)

Code:
sudo apt-add-repository ppa:yacoin/yacoin
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install yacoin-qt
sudo apt-get install yacoind

** Warning to all current Ubuntu Yacoin users
This repository uses LibDB 4.8 from the Bitcoin PPA to compile the binaries and uses it to open the wallet database.

Your own github source compiled yacoin-qt might have created a wallet with libDB 5.1. In that case the wallet will not open with this version.

If you migrate to using this PPA Yacoin client, you need to create a new wallet and use the old client to send your YACs to the new wallet.
(or you can dumpprivkey and importprivkey if you know how)

Backup your wallet.dat before trying any new software
Code:
cp ~/.yacoin/wallet.dat ~/.yacoin/wallet.dat.bak

Nice work! :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on July 05, 2013, 10:32:15 PM
Could someone look at a transaction for me? I sent Bter 500 YAC yesterday and it still hasn't show up.

http://yacexplorer.tk/tx/a5a7c2494b2e32812cd054b8ecbe2e7508a5b37b3ff4b3d53b48cbe44eaa7981

me: YE7A1h2VQAU6LCvGCdNgFFfgq78RuuYDkX
bter: Y28AcfZhtCk8V95WDbfC6jMSyV5eAto3Xe

Looks like it got added to block 121778 but outputs show "not yet redeemed"?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on July 06, 2013, 07:16:12 AM
I got it. The support guy said to look at the funds page and it will get credited 1 minute after that.
How strange. O.o

Did that and it was credited.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on July 06, 2013, 10:17:00 AM
I got it. The support guy said to look at the funds page and it will get credited 1 minute after that.
How strange. O.o

Did that and it was credited.

Yes, I also have to do it everytime I transfer funds there.
At least they could put up a notification or something like in btc-e.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 06, 2013, 03:09:12 PM
[POLL] What would YAC mean in a perfect world?
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251108.0
- http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,361.0.html


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on July 06, 2013, 03:14:59 PM
Yes, I also have to do it everytime I transfer funds there.
At least they could put up a notification or something like in btc-e.
Actually:

Crypto-currencies are credited within 1 minute after accessing this page or "My funds" page and only after 8 confirmations of the transaction in the network. Click here to get an unused address.
 ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on July 06, 2013, 09:06:00 PM
- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.

Probably an interesting point to open for discussion.  Does anyone object to calling my version of the client official?  Certainly it's not the original client, and I'm also not the original developer.  Thoughts everyone?


2. Run a poll on the official name for YAC
  • Yet Another Coin
  • Your Alternative Coin
  • Your Alternative Currency
  • ...

BTW - I lean toward "Your Alternative Currency" or "Your Alternative Coin" a bit.  The "Your Alternative Coin" option does jive with "YACoin" better than "Your Alternative Currency" though.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: WindMaster on July 06, 2013, 09:08:04 PM
Some tweaks I pushed to github a bit ago:

 - Checkpoint added at block 120,000.
 - More changing of "YaCoin" to "YACoin" in the source.
 - Changed network client version string from "Satoshi" to "YACoin-WM".


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on July 06, 2013, 11:24:32 PM
- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.

Probably an interesting point to open for discussion.  Does anyone object to calling my version of the client official?  Certainly it's not the original client, and I'm also not the original developer.  Thoughts everyone?


2. Run a poll on the official name for YAC
  • Yet Another Coin
  • Your Alternative Coin
  • Your Alternative Currency
  • ...

BTW - I lean toward "Your Alternative Currency" or "Your Alternative Coin" a bit.  The "Your Alternative Coin" option does jive with "YACoin" better than "Your Alternative Currency" though.

I think most users already consider your client as the official version and you as the main developer. I don't have any say in the matter of course, but that's what I think. Good job by the way. :)

I vote for "Your Alternative Coin", it just sounds more "natural".


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitfish on July 07, 2013, 12:03:08 AM
- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.

Probably an interesting point to open for discussion.  Does anyone object to calling my version of the client official?  Certainly it's not the original client, and I'm also not the original developer.  Thoughts everyone?

While it is not the original client is has become the official client after the original dev went MiA.

So it should be called "official client".  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on July 07, 2013, 01:36:37 AM
Will the windows wallet remember it's previous window position and size? I've always wondered why all the coins' don't do that (at least for the windows versions).  :-\


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: St.Bit on July 07, 2013, 10:20:37 AM
- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.

Probably an interesting point to open for discussion.  Does anyone object to calling my version of the client official?  Certainly it's not the original client, and I'm also not the original developer.  Thoughts everyone?
For me you are the official developer, but just calling your source official without some legitimation is a bad idea.

Personally I belive a vote mechanism via signed messages of wallets would be a good thing for the future anyways, but that might be overkill for this issue. Start a poll on yacointalk or here and that might give enough legitimation. We will need to change the code sometime in the future anyways (PoS double spends), so it's urgent that someone active gets accepted as official dev.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on July 08, 2013, 06:50:57 AM
- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.

Probably an interesting point to open for discussion.  Does anyone object to calling my version of the client official?  Certainly it's not the original client, and I'm also not the original developer.  Thoughts everyone?


2. Run a poll on the official name for YAC
  • Yet Another Coin
  • Your Alternative Coin
  • Your Alternative Currency
  • ...

BTW - I lean toward "Your Alternative Currency" or "Your Alternative Coin" a bit.  The "Your Alternative Coin" option does jive with "YACoin" better than "Your Alternative Currency" though.


As one of the big holders of YAC (100K+) I cast my vote towards your client fork being the official


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on July 08, 2013, 06:53:46 AM
voted :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on July 08, 2013, 01:04:57 PM

[BOUNTY]

Anyway, is there someone skilled enough to add coin control to YACoin client? More info here > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144331.0
I'll pay 1 BTC for the job which must include source code and working Win32 and 64 bit binaries. Others are welcomed to add some coins to bounty.

Bump!

Just curious but why do you need / want coin control ? are you using p2pool with loads of very small transactions ?
There is a somehow generic coin control script under the contribs folder from the bitcoin source. It shouldn't be hard to adapt to yacoin if it doesn't make use of the latest api calls bitcoin introduced in it's latest version.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on July 08, 2013, 01:38:22 PM
Playing with a new Yac theme, feedback welcome good or bad

http://i.imgur.com/o4GiSYu.png


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: canoe on July 08, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
I've added an N chart for YAC on my charts website.  
http://cryptometer.org/yacoin_90_day_charts.html

I also added a "Normalized Network Hashrate" chart that adjusts the network hashrate to eliminate the effects of changes in N.  This can be used as an indication of raw computing power over time.  Details on that here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=226281.msg2682957#msg2682957


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on July 08, 2013, 10:01:55 PM
Great info canoe, thanks.

There are two things that I don't liked from the beginning and pushed me back from getting more involved with the coin ( I am sure others can say the same):
* the amount of coins generated in the first day, is the best example of a ponzi scheme you can find.
* seeing how more than 1,3 M YAC is owned by just 5 addresses from a total of 4,3 M .

Still, yacoin is the altcoin with the most market support.
 ::)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on July 10, 2013, 04:27:45 PM
Watching the effects of the latest N change I noticed a few things
A. - Even at a normalized hash rate (thanks canoe) - a lot of people bailed on mining YAC
B. - Block time mean quintupled - we went from 55 seconds or so to over 250 - it could still be a few more days before we get back down to 1 minute.
C. - Because of B, the transaction times crawled to a halt to fully validate
D. - The difficulty is still plunging to catch up to the loss of hashpower (both from N change and folks stopping mining)

The following is suggested based on the possibility of a future where this coin is widely accepted and what the end user experience would be like trying to make a transaction shortly after an N increase.  That person, would have to wait ~30+ minutes just to get the first 8 confirmations.  This is not the type of experience an end user user would likely tolerate without a high level of frustration.

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: paulthetafy on July 10, 2013, 04:37:58 PM

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.

That seems like a sensible idea.  It would likely stop people moving their miners away from YAC immediately following an N increase too (which they are doing because it is more profitable to mine elsewhere until the diff decreases/reward increases enough, which at the moment is taking several days / weeks)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 10, 2013, 06:49:20 PM
Watching the effects of the latest N change I noticed a few things
A. - Even at a normalized hash rate (thanks canoe) - a lot of people bailed on mining YAC
B. - Block time mean quintupled - we went from 55 seconds or so to over 250 - it could still be a few more days before we get back down to 1 minute.
C. - Because of B, the transaction times crawled to a halt to fully validate
D. - The difficulty is still plunging to catch up to the loss of hashpower (both from N change and folks stopping mining)

The following is suggested based on the possibility of a future where this coin is widely accepted and what the end user experience would be like trying to make a transaction shortly after an N increase.  That person, would have to wait ~30+ minutes just to get the first 8 confirmations.  This is not the type of experience an end user user would likely tolerate without a high level of frustration.

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.


totally spot on !


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: 3dcgminer on July 10, 2013, 07:16:39 PM
Watching the effects of the latest N change I noticed a few things
A. - Even at a normalized hash rate (thanks canoe) - a lot of people bailed on mining YAC
B. - Block time mean quintupled - we went from 55 seconds or so to over 250 - it could still be a few more days before we get back down to 1 minute.
C. - Because of B, the transaction times crawled to a halt to fully validate
D. - The difficulty is still plunging to catch up to the loss of hashpower (both from N change and folks stopping mining)

The following is suggested based on the possibility of a future where this coin is widely accepted and what the end user experience would be like trying to make a transaction shortly after an N increase.  That person, would have to wait ~30+ minutes just to get the first 8 confirmations.  This is not the type of experience an end user user would likely tolerate without a high level of frustration.

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.


Another big problem was that everybody was using a new GPU miner, that crashed at the N change. It took a couple of days to get a few updates to get it running at the new normal speed and it needed some tweking.
I noticed that my miner crashed and the pool lost 95% of the hash rate at the same time.
Hopefully this will not happen again...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on July 10, 2013, 08:28:50 PM
Let's not forget primecoin was released the very day of the N increase.  I would imagine a lot of CPUs moving over to the much more profitable primecoin.  I think the biggest question though is what will happen at the next N increase.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 11, 2013, 02:41:39 PM

what happened with the YAC price?! so much panic sell for which reason ?!

if YAC is now harder to be produced after N changed why it dropped the price like this ? it should have been opposite..

will you be quiet or do something with to promote your coin ?

one nice pump would fix this..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: rbdrbd on July 11, 2013, 03:42:40 PM
Watching the effects of the latest N change I noticed a few things
A. - Even at a normalized hash rate (thanks canoe) - a lot of people bailed on mining YAC
B. - Block time mean quintupled - we went from 55 seconds or so to over 250 - it could still be a few more days before we get back down to 1 minute.
C. - Because of B, the transaction times crawled to a halt to fully validate
D. - The difficulty is still plunging to catch up to the loss of hashpower (both from N change and folks stopping mining)

The following is suggested based on the possibility of a future where this coin is widely accepted and what the end user experience would be like trying to make a transaction shortly after an N increase.  That person, would have to wait ~30+ minutes just to get the first 8 confirmations.  This is not the type of experience an end user user would likely tolerate without a high level of frustration.

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.


totally spot on !

I agree with this proposed change. FYI, my GPU farm is currently 35% of the YaCoin network hashrate (according to yacexplorer.tk graphs). That's never good (well, good for me, but not the coin).... I really like yacoin's concept and technicals and plan on keeping my support, but I was very surprised at the hashrate drop this last N change. Even at the current price, it is a very profitable coin to mine.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: paulthetafy on July 11, 2013, 04:45:04 PM
Watching the effects of the latest N change I noticed a few things
A. - Even at a normalized hash rate (thanks canoe) - a lot of people bailed on mining YAC
B. - Block time mean quintupled - we went from 55 seconds or so to over 250 - it could still be a few more days before we get back down to 1 minute.
C. - Because of B, the transaction times crawled to a halt to fully validate
D. - The difficulty is still plunging to catch up to the loss of hashpower (both from N change and folks stopping mining)

The following is suggested based on the possibility of a future where this coin is widely accepted and what the end user experience would be like trying to make a transaction shortly after an N increase.  That person, would have to wait ~30+ minutes just to get the first 8 confirmations.  This is not the type of experience an end user user would likely tolerate without a high level of frustration.

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.


totally spot on !

I agree with this proposed change. FYI, my GPU farm is currently 35% of the YaCoin network hashrate (according to yacexplorer.tk graphs). That's never good (well, good for me, but not the coin).... I really like yacoin's concept and technicals and plan on keeping my support, but I was very surprised at the hashrate drop this last N change. Even at the current price, it is a very profitable coin to mine.
i think the CPU miners have moved to Primecoin temporarily and the GPU miners should come back once the reward rises / diff drops a little more as there are currently more profitable alts to mine.  It does show that those that left were only in it for short-term gains though (mine and dump).  FYI my GPU's are still on YAC (yacp.coinmine.pl) and my CPU's are on Primecoin... for now :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on July 11, 2013, 06:27:30 PM
Watching the effects of the latest N change I noticed a few things
A. - Even at a normalized hash rate (thanks canoe) - a lot of people bailed on mining YAC
B. - Block time mean quintupled - we went from 55 seconds or so to over 250 - it could still be a few more days before we get back down to 1 minute.
C. - Because of B, the transaction times crawled to a halt to fully validate
D. - The difficulty is still plunging to catch up to the loss of hashpower (both from N change and folks stopping mining)

The following is suggested based on the possibility of a future where this coin is widely accepted and what the end user experience would be like trying to make a transaction shortly after an N increase.  That person, would have to wait ~30+ minutes just to get the first 8 confirmations.  This is not the type of experience an end user user would likely tolerate without a high level of frustration.

Based on this, I would like to propose a change that adjusts the difficulty downward at the same time as N increases in an effort to keep block times close to their target in the days that follow.  In a no-loss scenario, an N increase halves the total hashpower, so I propose it also halves the difficulty at the same time.


totally spot on !

I agree with this proposed change. FYI, my GPU farm is currently 35% of the YaCoin network hashrate (according to yacexplorer.tk graphs). That's never good (well, good for me, but not the coin).... I really like yacoin's concept and technicals and plan on keeping my support, but I was very surprised at the hashrate drop this last N change. Even at the current price, it is a very profitable coin to mine.
i think the CPU miners have moved to Primecoin temporarily and the GPU miners should come back once the reward rises / diff drops a little more as there are currently more profitable alts to mine.  It does show that those that left were only in it for short-term gains though (mine and dump).  FYI my GPU's are still on YAC (yacp.coinmine.pl) and my CPU's are on Primecoin... for now :)

I have made more USD mining Primecoin in 1 day than I have made with Yacoin in 1 month... so yea... I think the only smart thing to do with a CPU is mine Primecoin now before it turns into GPU only.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: St.Bit on July 11, 2013, 06:46:00 PM

what happened with the YAC price?! so much panic sell for which reason ?!

if YAC is now harder to be produced after N changed why it dropped the price like this ? it should have been opposite..

will you be quiet or do something with to promote your coin ?

one nice pump would fix this..


I belive some of the earliest adopters want to cash out.

Based on the size of single sell orders I assume there are just a few wealthy people actually selling. YAC has only little actually buying demand so they can drive prices down as far as they accept the price for. Once these people have sold to people who want to keep for longer we might see a price bubble soon. Not good for YAC, but that might be a chance for a quick buck.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dmatthewstewart on July 12, 2013, 07:25:06 AM
What is the advantage of Stratum mining?

Ive herad you can get more done for less. My only problem is that the majority of the pools I want to use require Stratum, and after months I still cant get it to work at all. Fuck, I cant even get scrypt Jane to work either


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 12, 2013, 07:28:24 AM
Quote
Once these people have sold to people who want to keep for longer we might see a price bubble soon. Not good for YAC, but that might be a chance for a quick buck.

I expect that balloon to happen at least at the next N change, I really do hope so.. as for some laws of the economic, if there is shortage of something, price should rise.. was very surprised to see that didn’t happen after N changed few days ago..  Seems like people started panicking and abandoning the YAC ship.. Well also as you mentioned Primecoin, it participated, as well as the bitcoin raise at the same time..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on July 12, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
Quote
Once these people have sold to people who want to keep for longer we might see a price bubble soon. Not good for YAC, but that might be a chance for a quick buck.

I expect that balloon to happen at least at the next N change, I really do hope so.. as for some laws of the economic, if there is shortage of something, price should rise.. was very surprised to see that didn’t happen after N changed few days ago..  Seems like people started panicking and abandoning the YAC ship.. Well also as you mentioned Primecoin, it participated, as well as the bitcoin raise at the same time..

It's currently being obliterated (market cap wise) by Digitalcoin, Primecoin and now passed by WDC and Phenixcoin (probably because of the UNOCS announcement). Now at 14th spot and with YBC (better) market support looming, its not really looking good for YAC at the moment. :(


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 12, 2013, 10:26:49 PM
an after next N change ? what do you think ?
 I still think it should rise, as it should almoust be impossible to mine it (therefore no everyday miners dumping)..
.. but well, maybe logical to me is not logical to others..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on July 12, 2013, 10:44:25 PM
an after next N change ? what do you think ?
 I still think it should rise, as it should almoust be impossible to mine it (therefore no everyday miners dumping)..
.. but well, maybe logical to me is not logical to others..

First there should be demand and there's not a lot of that at the moment. When it was being traded (and of course mined), supply and demand was there so it was fluid for some time. After the miners left, it all went downhill from there and the speculative demand left along with them. You can just see it from the exchanges, the bookings are getting thinner by the day.  :'(


Being speculative of course, makes things a bit unpredictable. Anything can happen I guess.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: forsetifox on July 12, 2013, 11:05:08 PM
^^ this ^^


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 15, 2013, 08:28:16 PM
Let’s pump this coin people, deserves way much better !
 I was doing some small pumps going clearly in minus, but what the hell..
..today, two days ago, and on Friday.. trying at least price to hang in there. Seems some other folks also tried.. but today dropping again :( don’t have much BTC left to pump it more on Cryptsy..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 17, 2013, 01:42:25 AM
Let’s pump this coin people, deserves way much better !
 I was doing some small pumps going clearly in minus, but what the hell..
..today, two days ago, and on Friday.. trying at least price to hang in there. Seems some other folks also tried.. but today dropping again :( don’t have much BTC left to pump it more on Cryptsy..


I prefer BTER...craptsy sucks.
I'm waiting for my PoS blocks, should start getting them by the 23rd. :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 17, 2013, 12:38:18 PM
Let’s pump this coin people, deserves way much better !
 I was doing some small pumps going clearly in minus, but what the hell..
..today, two days ago, and on Friday.. trying at least price to hang in there. Seems some other folks also tried.. but today dropping again :( don’t have much BTC left to pump it more on Cryptsy..


I prefer BTER...craptsy sucks.
I'm waiting for my PoS blocks, should start getting them by the 23rd. :D

what is Pos Block friend ?
someone bought big quants of YAC on Cryptsy again YEY !:)
for all XPM I got,  I‚m pumping YAC as hard as I can there..


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 17, 2013, 01:33:27 PM
Let’s pump this coin people, deserves way much better !
 I was doing some small pumps going clearly in minus, but what the hell..
..today, two days ago, and on Friday.. trying at least price to hang in there. Seems some other folks also tried.. but today dropping again :( don’t have much BTC left to pump it more on Cryptsy..


I prefer BTER...craptsy sucks.
I'm waiting for my PoS blocks, should start getting them by the 23rd. :D

what is Pos Block friend ?
someone bought big quants of YAC on Cryptsy again YEY !:)
for all XPM I got,  I‚m pumping YAC as hard as I can there..


It's what sets yac apart from the rest, that and cpu mining with N factor.
It gives you block rewards for holding coins 30 days+, formula is as follows: total coins at stake*.05*(30+ days)/365=Proof of Stake reward per PoS block


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on July 17, 2013, 08:25:06 PM
Why in my wallet (mac version) stakes are always equals to 0 ? must i do something to mine PoS ?

Thanks


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: St.Bit on July 17, 2013, 08:38:35 PM
Why in my wallet (mac version) stakes are always equals to 0 ? must i do something to mine PoS ?

Thanks

That's probably also explainde somewhere on bitcointalk too, but this is the link I have at hand:

http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,144.15.html (http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,144.15.html)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 17, 2013, 08:41:53 PM
interesting :) thanks people !


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 17, 2013, 09:38:17 PM
Why in my wallet (mac version) stakes are always equals to 0 ? must i do something to mine PoS ?

Thanks

You need to do this when you wanna mint PoS blocks:

-Go to help, debug window, console.
-Type: walletpassphrase *your pw* *time in seconds* true
-Hit enter and it'll unlock it for pos minting only...either that or having no encryption (which I wouldn't reccomend)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 24, 2013, 06:28:19 AM
Yacointalk giveaway (http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,375.0.html) 3.33 YACs


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: St.Bit on July 24, 2013, 10:51:15 AM
Yacointalk giveaway (http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,375.0.html) 3.33 YACs

Nice, I think this deserves a place in my signature.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 24, 2013, 04:36:53 PM
Yacointalk giveaway (http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,375.0.html) 3.33 YACs

Nice, I think this deserves a place in my signature.

LOL ! :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: JahPowerBit on July 24, 2013, 07:44:07 PM
Why in my wallet (mac version) stakes are always equals to 0 ? must i do something to mine PoS ?

Thanks

You need to do this when you wanna mint PoS blocks:

-Go to help, debug window, console.
-Type: walletpassphrase *your pw* *time in seconds* true
-Hit enter and it'll unlock it for pos minting only...either that or having no encryption (which I wouldn't reccomend)


thks!


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bitdwarf on July 25, 2013, 06:41:43 AM
We are within two weeks of the August N change. ;D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cryptrol on July 25, 2013, 07:35:48 AM
We are within two weeks of the August N change. ;D
No, not again ! It's been only a few days since the difficulty adjusted to the new N ...
Difficulty adjustment after N change is soooo slow, and this means very long block times during days, which means miners loose BIG profits.

Just some ranting.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 25, 2013, 08:51:17 PM
We are within two weeks of the August N change. ;D
No, not again ! It's been only a few days since the difficulty adjusted to the new N ...
Difficulty adjustment after N change is soooo slow, and this means very long block times during days, which means miners loose BIG profits.

Just some ranting.

I think Mining of YAC is going better then ever (easier), diff is that low !
but price is droping aargh ! panic sell, for which reason ?!



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 25, 2013, 09:10:36 PM
I think gpu miners dropped a lot of coins at bter...price is quite low atm, which sucks.
I personally am hoarding and minting PoS blocks, while mining something else atm. I may direct my servers to yac soon if a primecoin gpu miner comes out.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: gyverlb on July 25, 2013, 10:02:47 PM
I think gpu miners dropped a lot of coins at bter...price is quite low atm, which sucks.
I personally am hoarding and minting PoS blocks, while mining something else atm. I may direct my servers to yac soon if a primecoin gpu miner comes out.

I'm curious about PoS minting. What is the expected income for Novacoin/PPcoin/Yacoin ?
AFAIK minting is based on freezed coins. Is minting possible with an active wallet (ie: with regular incoming and outgoing TXs) or is it better to make a dedicated wallet with only incoming TXs ?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 25, 2013, 10:56:18 PM
I think gpu miners dropped a lot of coins at bter...price is quite low atm, which sucks.
I personally am hoarding and minting PoS blocks, while mining something else atm. I may direct my servers to yac soon if a primecoin gpu miner comes out.

I'm curious about PoS minting. What is the expected income for Novacoin/PPcoin/Yacoin ?
AFAIK minting is based on freezed coins. Is minting possible with an active wallet (ie: with regular incoming and outgoing TXs) or is it better to make a dedicated wallet with only incoming TXs ?

There's a command to reserve a certain amount and let the rest be held for PoS minting...look for it in the ppc threads, can't recall atm since I'm not using it.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: gyverlb on July 25, 2013, 11:20:26 PM
I think gpu miners dropped a lot of coins at bter...price is quite low atm, which sucks.
I personally am hoarding and minting PoS blocks, while mining something else atm. I may direct my servers to yac soon if a primecoin gpu miner comes out.

I'm curious about PoS minting. What is the expected income for Novacoin/PPcoin/Yacoin ?
AFAIK minting is based on freezed coins. Is minting possible with an active wallet (ie: with regular incoming and outgoing TXs) or is it better to make a dedicated wallet with only incoming TXs ?

There's a command to reserve a certain amount and let the rest be held for PoS minting...look for it in the ppc threads, can't recall atm since I'm not using it.

Actually I would prefer the reverse: hold a fixed amount for PoS minting and move the rest at will (for selling on an exchange).


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on July 26, 2013, 02:24:01 PM
I think gpu miners dropped a lot of coins at bter...price is quite low atm, which sucks.
I personally am hoarding and minting PoS blocks, while mining something else atm. I may direct my servers to yac soon if a primecoin gpu miner comes out.

I'm curious about PoS minting. What is the expected income for Novacoin/PPcoin/Yacoin ?
AFAIK minting is based on freezed coins. Is minting possible with an active wallet (ie: with regular incoming and outgoing TXs) or is it better to make a dedicated wallet with only incoming TXs ?

There's a command to reserve a certain amount and let the rest be held for PoS minting...look for it in the ppc threads, can't recall atm since I'm not using it.

Actually I would prefer the reverse: hold a fixed amount for PoS minting and move the rest at will (for selling on an exchange).

My thought to do this was like I do with my checking and savings accounts in real life.  Funds from work (mining) come into the checking, and that gets spent, sent to exchanges, etc.  But to save and get interest (PoS), I send it to the savings account (a second wallet), and never touch anything there and just let it accrue interest.

two wallets - one for spending, one for PoS... $.02


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: bandjhughes on July 27, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
I admit I left yacoin after the last N update after I couldn't get my GPU to mine it well and got tired of the blue screen crashes while trying to.  Plus started using my CPUs for mining Primecoin.  Wanted to get back to Yacoin recently, but the trouble is my wallet crashes with a warning to "try deleting everything but the wallet.dat file and retry".  I did that, but still get the hard crashes.  What I mean by "hard crash" is it gives me a C++ fatal error warning message then automatically closes the wallet. I get no options to do anything.

I was using a wallet version from Windmaster.  So I tried the original wallet--that too crashes.  Once again cleared out everything but the wallet.dat file and retried yet again--still have the hard crash. Has there been an update to the wallet that is necessary?  Has my wallet become hopelessly corrupted (do to the weeks of neglect)?  Am I SOL?  ???  >:(

Thx

And no, I wasn't smart enough save the most recent wallet in a backup.  I do have an old backup, but it's missing a bunch of coins.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 27, 2013, 06:41:06 PM
try running yacoind from commandline.
Code:
./yacoind -daemon
./yacoind help
./yacoind getinfo
./yacoind listaccounts
./yacoind sendtoaddress newaddress 1000
./yacoind dumpprivkey oldaddress
./yacoind stop
tail ~/.yacoin/debug.log -n 100

Make sure your backup wallet is safe and try starting a new client without the .yacoin directory. The crashes don't seem to relate to your wallet though. It's something else.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 28, 2013, 05:28:44 PM
http://yacoin.org/

Updated with new design and some new clients. Hopefully next update has even more official looking ones.

You can send fixes and suggestions to Yacointalk (http://yacointalk.com/) admins or zhaojundong (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=113186) who hosts the site.

Thanks to mikaelh (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=129065), hanzac (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=71166) and crendore (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=122777) for their compiled clients


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: dcl595 on July 28, 2013, 05:31:28 PM
looks good :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 28, 2013, 05:34:20 PM
Looks great man, yacoin deserved a better page.  :D


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Joe_Bauers on July 28, 2013, 06:23:44 PM
http://yacoin.org/

Updated with new design and some new clients. Hopefully next update has even more official looking ones.

You can send fixes and suggestions to Yacointalk (http://yacointalk.com/) admins or zhaojundong (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=113186) who hosts the site.

Thanks to mikaelh (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=129065), hanzac (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=71166) and crendore (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=122777) for their compiled clients

Very nice!  I will be sending some YAC's your way. I call on everyone that can afford it to do the same.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on July 28, 2013, 06:52:28 PM
great looking place ! great work !
my favorite coin really.

by the way.. some really nice buy orders on Bter and Cryptsy ;)
rise !


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on July 28, 2013, 06:57:09 PM
I have criticism sorry. here it is: I don't like the "stock photo" of the guy in a suit.otherwise nice job...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on July 28, 2013, 07:10:16 PM
I'm putting my CPU back on YaCoin.  I love PrimeCoin and the concept, but I just think YaCoin has a better long-term future.  The market seems to favor the Proof-of-Stake minting--who would have thought NovaCoin would do so well.  And it looks like someone is taking big advantage of these PrimeCoin-induced low prices.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: kentt on July 29, 2013, 12:19:39 AM
I have criticism sorry. here it is: I don't like the "stock photo" of the guy in a suit.otherwise nice job...
I agree.  Great site, but the stock photo is not good.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: digger on July 29, 2013, 01:20:42 AM
what's the future of Yacoin? ???


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on July 29, 2013, 02:06:41 AM
http://yacoin.org/

Updated with new design and some new clients. Hopefully next update has even more official looking ones.

You can send fixes and suggestions to Yacointalk (http://yacointalk.com/) admins or zhaojundong (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=113186) who hosts the site.

Thanks to mikaelh (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=129065), hanzac (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=71166) and crendore (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=122777) for their compiled clients


OMG this site look horrible !!!
 
 


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on July 29, 2013, 02:40:48 AM
the problem with yacoin is an increasing block reward i.e inflation. investors would like to know how many coins will be minted. or at least that the rate will decrease over time. ppcoin has provided this with a block reward scaled to difficulty (which yacoin implements). but YAcoin undermines that system since every N increase the work miners do is cut in half, followed by decreasing difficulty. 2 months ago the block reward was 18, its now 30.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on July 29, 2013, 05:02:34 AM
the problem with yacoin is an increasing block reward i.e inflation. investors would like to know how many coins will be minted. or at least that the rate will decrease over time. ppcoin has provided this with a block reward scaled to difficulty (which yacoin implements). but YAcoin undermines that system since every N increase the work miners do is cut in half, followed by decreasing difficulty. 2 months ago the block reward was 18, its now 30.

Wrong, block reward is higher, yet hash rate is halved every time N changes...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 29, 2013, 05:44:16 AM
I think the current inflation is just correcting the eager launch. Anyone new can join in and start mining a decent share of the blockchain. Yacoin still has the potential to gain popularity, increase hashrate and see deflation in block rewards at the same time.

In economic theory PPCoin relatives were always more open to inflation than deflation. Takes some time for users to learn that their coin might not rise in price forever.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on July 29, 2013, 06:16:03 AM
Actually, what's the formula for calculating the block reward?

I tried looking at the code but don't understand what it's doing with variables like bnTarget.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on July 29, 2013, 08:39:54 AM
the block reward is a function of the difficulty. but I don't know what that is. probably same as PPcoin? I know at starting difficulty 0 or maybe its .00001 or something... the block reward = 100. at diff. 1 block reward = ~24 at diff. 8 block reward = ~18.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 29, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
Reward = 25 / (Difficulty ^ 1/6)
Max Reward = 100

The comment section is wrong in yacoin. It's old comment from ppcoin/novacoin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: wetroof on July 29, 2013, 09:36:25 AM
right now difficulty is 1/2^2

at difficulty 1/2^6 block reward = 50.

the hashrate remaining constant in less than 1 year block reward will be 50. (N will increase 4 times.)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: TreasureSeeker on July 29, 2013, 08:48:32 PM
So is there a theoretical coin cap for YAC?  I've seen it asked a few times but haven't seen an answer yet.


Title: Please pick YACoin in this poll
Post by: alenevaa on July 30, 2013, 08:48:21 AM
Please pick YACoin in this poll https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264016.0


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Sahtor on July 30, 2013, 08:32:15 PM
2 billion coins has been said before. I think PPC estimated that they will create roughly 100M coins until it becomes too difficult. Yacoin is creating 13-15M coins per year. Unless the rate is too high for it's popularity in future I wouldn't worry about it.


In other news I created a Yacoin mining profitability (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agw1n7jxRPfRdDFuSUlicFVxY2MzQUdqMURyMHdvZ2c) Google docs spreadsheet. Thanks to aso118 from Yacointalk for the initial idea.

Other than the actual math the most speculative part of the calculations are the hashrate guesses.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on July 31, 2013, 12:58:43 AM
According to the formula in the last page, the POW mining will be largely determined by how popular it gets. If it gets near litecoin level popularity and difficulty jump a thousand times, coins generation should go to about 1/3 the current rate.

If cost of computing power goes down like Moore's Law and assuming the money put into hashing is constant, coin generation should go down to about 1/10 every 30 years. Together with becoming more popular, the total coins generated by POW shouldn't be too different from most cryptocurrencies we see now.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: aso118 on August 01, 2013, 09:59:39 PM
2 billion coins has been said before. I think PPC estimated that they will create roughly 100M coins until it becomes too difficult. Yacoin is creating 13-15M coins per year. Unless the rate is too high for it's popularity in future I wouldn't worry about it.


In other news I created a Yacoin mining profitability (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agw1n7jxRPfRdDFuSUlicFVxY2MzQUdqMURyMHdvZ2c) Google docs spreadsheet. Thanks to aso118 from Yacointalk for the initial idea.

Other than the actual math the most speculative part of the calculations are the hashrate guesses.

+1   ;D

Great sheet.  Thank you for sharing it!

I think there are a lot of people that are interested in mining the coin, but just don't know enough about it yet.  Hopefully through communication, and explaining that this isn't just another pump-and-dump coin, and more tools (like this) they will better understand.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: thef on August 01, 2013, 10:07:05 PM
2 billion coins has been said before. I think PPC estimated that they will create roughly 100M coins until it becomes too difficult. Yacoin is creating 13-15M coins per year. Unless the rate is too high for it's popularity in future I wouldn't worry about it.


In other news I created a Yacoin mining profitability (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agw1n7jxRPfRdDFuSUlicFVxY2MzQUdqMURyMHdvZ2c) Google docs spreadsheet. Thanks to aso118 from Yacointalk for the initial idea.

Other than the actual math the most speculative part of the calculations are the hashrate guesses.

+1   ;D

Great sheet.  Thank you for sharing it!

I think there are a lot of people that are interested in mining the coin, but just don't know enough about it yet.  Hopefully through communication, and explaining that this isn't just another pump-and-dump coin, and more tools (like this) they will better understand.

Shhhh. Don't tell anyone about YAC. Let me mine some more.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on August 01, 2013, 10:39:46 PM
hehe true xD

Price is too low...buy some instead of just dumping! :p


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 02, 2013, 01:36:48 AM
yeah, can`t understand those folks dumping and dumping such precious coin ..

but there is a reason why some others are buying and buying ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: aso118 on August 02, 2013, 02:17:54 PM
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone about YAC. Let me mine some more.

Good plan!  :P

Price is too low...buy some instead of just dumping! :p

I agree.  I think a lot of people are looking at poor 'profitability calculator' and they are panicing when N-factor increases and end up dumping their coins.  Its only a matter of time until the coin is better understood and more buyers will appear.  I know I've been converting/buying as much as I can while the price is still low.



On a side note....  does anyone know anything about PoS?  My wallet has a TON of transactions that are between the range of 5 and 25 coins (automatic pool payouts).  When my wallet rarely mines a PoS block.  And when it does, it usually picks one of these smaller transactions; which results in 0.00 or 0.05 YAC 'interest.'  Do transaction with higher value and older timestamps have a higher priority (similar to bitcoins?)?  Would the best solution be to transfer all these small transactions (in a single transaction) to a new address?  After 30 days, would that increase the chance of a PoS?  And in the long run yield more 'interest?'


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 03, 2013, 07:50:26 AM
YAC rise people !


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Bakaboy on August 03, 2013, 07:56:57 AM
YAC rise people !

There's some movement but I wouldn't say it's rising. On the other hand, the market gladly swallowed some relatively large dumps and the price barely budged. The market has also been much more active lately. Good signs. :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 03, 2013, 08:08:29 AM
I would say very good signs lately.. Buy orders were just HUGE ! I‚m also buying as much as I can..
Price will at least double in few days after next N change in August, so why not earn some extra bucks on coins you buy now ? ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on August 03, 2013, 11:43:00 PM
I would say very good signs lately.. Buy orders were just HUGE ! I‚m also buying as much as I can..
Price will at least double in few days after next N change in August, so why not earn some extra bucks on coins you buy now ? ;)


N has had 0 effect on the price in the past, what makes you think it will effect it now?

In my personal observation, every time N changed, price dropped lower as more and more miners gave up on it after seeing their hash rate drop.

I think the only thing that will positively impact the price of this coin is a new wave of crypto speculators, who will arrive at the end of Fall (as they always do).
By mid or end January they will get more familiar with all the major coins and will finally discover this baby (along with others but I think this one stands out a little more, which is what I am betting on) and start dumping money at LTC, PPC, NVC, etc. and YAC,  it will trinkle down the chain but due to volumes new speculators bring in, it will push coin capitalization to $1mil+ and will add an extra 0 to your $ us/ca/eur holding in this coin. They will come with hopes of being the next crypto millionaire, selling ther apartments and taking loans in order to seize the moment ... thats when I will execute my exit strategy and they will need to wait a year or take their loses.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sell-in-may-and-go-away.asp


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on August 04, 2013, 12:11:38 AM
While I quite like it's easier to mine YAC now, I'm afraid the YAC is laying too low for it's long term good. After all, an advantage of coming out first is to accumulate a "supporter" base before others. However, last time I checked, YBC has more computing power on it (after roughly accounting for the difference in N). I hope the "first mover advantage" hasn't been thrown away.

Being visible on a profit comparison website would be good advertisement. I actually knew http://dustcoin.com/mining before I knew about this forum. As a late coming newbie, when I was deciding whether this coin thing can help fund a display card for me, I researched profit/coin generation on the internet. A profit comparison site was one of the first coin related website I visit repeatedly. It's from there I saw FTC, and searching feathercoin information took me here.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on August 04, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
While I quite like it's easier to mine YAC now, I'm afraid the YAC is laying too low for it's long term good. After all, an advantage of coming out first is to accumulate a "supporter" base before others. However, last time I checked, YBC has more computing power on it (after roughly accounting for the difference in N). I hope the "first mover advantage" hasn't been thrown away.

Being visible on a profit comparison website would be good advertisement. I actually knew http://dustcoin.com/mining before I knew about this forum. As a late coming newbie, when I was deciding whether this coin thing can help fund a display card for me, I researched profit/coin generation on the internet. A profit comparison site was one of the first coin related website I visit repeatedly. It's from there I saw FTC, and searching feathercoin information took me here.

Just in case you dont already know about it:

http://coinmarketcap.com/


This is one of the most powerful stat in crypto, not the hashing power.

Keep in mind that this is a PoW+PoS coin, meaning if other coins are hashing at higher speed, people who just hold this coin are adding new coins to supply through Proof of Stake. This process can keep coin supply expanding, while awaiting next speculative influx even with low network hashing speed.



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on August 04, 2013, 01:12:22 AM
Just in case you dont already know about it:

http://coinmarketcap.com/


This is one of the most powerful stat in crypto, not the hashing power.
...

YBC isn't listed on that website, but I just checked that it's market cap should be around USD460k now, about 5 times that of YAC. (~USD1.3 price * 354,254 money supply)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: X68N on August 04, 2013, 01:27:17 AM
maybe we need a fundraiser thread for YAC , like the DGC dev did?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on August 04, 2013, 02:42:30 AM
I feel those holding over 100k YAC should try to get it more exposure, such as paying profit comparison website to accommodate it despite any such comparison is by nature more difficult and rough. Someone with 300K YAC can substantially increase his net worth by using 100k of it smartly. May be a fundraising thread can help these people stay behind the scene if they so choose. You can't get enough to achieve much without support of these big holders. Of course, small holders like me should also chip in a bit to make it look like a popular event. ;)

There are also a couple of things I hope future updates to the YAC client can include.

1) Difficulty adjustment should happen much faster after N change. As it is, after an N increase moment, there is a period where coin mining becomes much harder. I remember the block times went from the intended 1 minute to like 2-3 minutes after the last N change. Yacoins mined greatly decreased for that period. I also stayed away until the block time came back down. By then, the pool I use have less than half the number of miners as before N change. Those people haven't come back.

2) While I personally think the total quantity of Yacoin generated with POW isn't out of line (see my post above), there is genuine confusion and concern about that. If Yacoin is to be popular, the amount that can be mined decades from now will be very small compared with what we're getting now. We may as well just put the "potentially infinite amount of POW generated coins" to bed by stopping POW after, e.g., 30 years. POS should make that viable. That could help some potential investors feel more comfortable without changing the basic design too much.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: cycloid on August 04, 2013, 08:31:52 AM
personally I want to see the price go MUCH lower in the next little while, so I can pick up another 100k for 10btc :)



Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 04, 2013, 10:31:04 AM
Quote

N has had 0 effect on the price in the past, what makes you think it will effect it now?

In my personal observation, every time N changed, price dropped lower as more and more miners gave up on it after seeing their hash rate drop.



I think you are wrong about N change and price drop, as yes, it happened last time N changed,  but I would say it was vice versa in most of the previous cases ...

I guess we all know that After next N change it will became almost impossible to mine YAC on GPU-s (cause of RAM limit, and higher needed TC which doesn’t comply).. this will prevent dumps that are happening now (as YAC was really the most profitable coin out there when YAC GPU mining came out even thou not listed on Coinchoose, and in last 10 days or so it is especially profitable as diff is so low)..’people were just dumping their daily YAC as still it was more profitable day after day  then any LTC, DGC, or don’t know what..

 it’s simple law of the market.. price must go up as there will be shortage in YAC supplies for at least 4-5 days until miners find out some better way to mine it, and in that time I expect price to go up high, and also those who are buying in last 15 days or so really big supplies of YAC are surely planning to make a profit later , so expect big pumps of YAC (me included).. Also remember that someone was buying BIG YAC on prices that are two time or more then now just 30-40 days ago..

.. for every thing there is a reason.. I strongly believe that who buys YAC now should expect good profit during the August.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 05, 2013, 09:40:56 AM
YAC UP again, this time for good I think, wery thin sell walls after 0.0002 it shoulg go pretty high this time ! buy cheap YAC on Cryptsy !


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on August 05, 2013, 02:26:09 PM
YAC UP again, this time for good I think, wery thin sell walls after 0.0002 it shoulg go pretty high this time ! buy cheap YAC on Cryptsy !


I'm gonna buy some btc with cash for that :)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: aso118 on August 05, 2013, 11:52:00 PM
Bringing up an older topic....

- I would hope Windmaster would call his source official.

Probably an interesting point to open for discussion.  Does anyone object to calling my version of the client official?  Certainly it's not the original client, and I'm also not the original developer.  Thoughts everyone?

While it is not the original client is has become the official client after the original dev went MiA.

So it should be called "official client".  ;)


I think we all agree WindMaster is the official developer of YACoin.  How would we go about updating the website to reflect this?  The latest wallet on the site is still 'unofficial' and is still rocking the novacoin logo.  I think a large percentage of the community doesn't realize that we DO have an active developer.  I think this is why so many heads turned when YBC was released....


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 08, 2013, 10:48:59 AM
enormous buy wall on Cryptsy  at  0.00024000 YAC BTC     8)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on August 08, 2013, 11:00:58 AM
enormous buy wall on Cryptsy  at  0.00024000 YAC BTC     8)
40btc @ 0.00021
Who would want to sell so cheap?  ;D
edit: N-change soon http://muuttuja.org/yacoin/countdown/


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on August 08, 2013, 01:57:09 PM
enormous buy wall on Cryptsy  at  0.00024000 YAC BTC     8)
40btc @ 0.00021
Who would want to sell so cheap?  ;D
edit: N-change soon http://muuttuja.org/yacoin/countdown/

Someone who wants to buy more cheap, before it's late?
Guys, can you point me to a technical analysis site or soft for other coins and exchanges? I tried cryptfolio for ltc/btc trading and it worked great for me.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: igysa on August 08, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote
Someone who wants to buy more cheap, before it's late?
Guys, can you point me to a technical analysis site or soft for other coins and exchanges? I tried cryptfolio for ltc/btc trading and it worked great for me.

http://coinmarketcap.com/
maybe


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on August 08, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
Quote
Someone who wants to buy more cheap, before it's late?
Guys, can you point me to a technical analysis site or soft for other coins and exchanges? I tried cryptfolio for ltc/btc trading and it worked great for me.

http://coinmarketcap.com/
maybe

Nope, not that...I need to apply technical indicators like simple moving average, stuff like that, to the data generated by the exchange sites API keys.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on August 09, 2013, 01:45:52 AM
Does the SSSE3 CPU miner released in the early days still work? I just tried it with a pool and it doesn't seem to connect. My GPU miner can connect to the pool totally fine.

Any other good miner for the higher N future?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Thirtybird on August 09, 2013, 02:16:09 PM
Does the SSSE3 CPU miner released in the early days still work? I just tried it with a pool and it doesn't seem to connect. My GPU miner can connect to the pool totally fine.

Any other good miner for the higher N future?

You should try and grab one of the newer compiles - they offer a speed improvement as long as you select the correct architecture, and the SSSE3 and AVX versions both work for sure.  That being said, I can't see why an older version would fail to connect unless you are pointing it at a pool that is no longer around.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ilostcoins on August 12, 2013, 01:20:57 AM
The pool is good and I'm using it with a GPU miner. Well, I guess I still have plenty of time to figure it out because GPU mining should still be the more cost effective option after the coming N change.


Yacoin look-alikes are coming out in droves these days. I see that as a kind of validation for the concept behind Yacoin. However, YAC, the original is still so cheap!  If people want a stake in the concept, they can still get plenty of YAC cheaply and easily.  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: alenevaa on August 13, 2013, 07:47:42 AM
Nfactor has just changed! Nfactor is 12 now.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: ivanlabrie on August 14, 2013, 01:35:33 AM
Nice! Just in time for my i7 3820...should be up and running this weekend.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sva_h4cky0 on August 14, 2013, 03:04:19 PM
so GPU miner is dead???  ::)


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on August 14, 2013, 03:08:51 PM
Nope, my 5770 is happily hashing @ 12.25kH. Try intensity 10 (or maybe even lower) and play around with thread concurrency.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: 3dcgminer on August 14, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
GPU is still 5x faster than CPU, but both are really slow at N=12.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sva_h4cky0 on August 15, 2013, 02:31:14 AM
Nope, my 5770 is happily hashing @ 12.25kH. Try intensity 10 (or maybe even lower) and play around with thread concurrency.
GPU is still 5x faster than CPU, but both are really slow at N=12.

oh my  :-X


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on August 15, 2013, 08:29:56 AM
oh my  :-X

Don't feel bad. Slow mining means less supply of YACs, which means higher prices. You may be mining less YAC but they are worth more, so the net result is probably the same.

-Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on August 16, 2013, 06:50:11 AM
The difficulty drops, so the coins are not necessarily worth more...

Good to see http://yacexplorer.tk/ has finally been updated.

I really think this coin has a lot of potential considering all of the clones that have already been produced (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery right?)  The clones should, and I think does, give yacoin a lot of worth perception-wise to the non-crypto savvy people out there. 

I am looking to invest a sizable bounty to boost YaCoin, but I'm having trouble coming up with an idea. What is the best product that the YaCoin economy needs right now?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: mberg2007 on August 16, 2013, 10:32:58 AM
I am looking to invest a sizable bounty to boost YaCoin, but I'm having trouble coming up with an idea. What is the best product that the YaCoin economy needs right now?

Supply a product or service which can only be paid for with YAC. Demand will drive price up and boost the overall YAC economy.

For example, buy an iPhone on ebay for $200, offer to sell it for $150 in equivalent YAC currency. Your bounty is the $50 you lose on the deal, and the upside is the increase in interest and liquidity, as well as from miners.

-Michael


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: St.Bit on August 16, 2013, 08:06:57 PM
I am looking to invest a sizable bounty to boost YaCoin, but I'm having trouble coming up with an idea. What is the best product that the YaCoin economy needs right now?

Supply a product or service which can only be paid for with YAC. Demand will drive price up and boost the overall YAC economy.

For example, buy an iPhone on ebay for $200, offer to sell it for $150 in equivalent YAC currency. Your bounty is the $50 you lose on the deal, and the upside is the increase in interest and liquidity, as well as from miners.

-Michael

So one guy once spends 150$ in YAC and exchanges them immediately ...  ::)

I belive YAC's killer app might be somewhere on micropayments for websites or such as an alternative or addition to advertising rewards. That would require an efficient JAVA miner, but as far as I heard that can't be done. Maybe it's still worth a shot in the dark to see if an inefficient one is suitable ...

If you find a good idea to bounty on I'd probably plege on that too so shoot me a PM when you have one.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: Beave162 on August 17, 2013, 05:24:22 AM
A YaCoin market place... a Java miner...

I think it is important to learn to walk before trying to run at this point with yacoin.  In that spirit, I'd really like to see a breakdown in my wallet of my coins and their respective coin-age, and I want the ability to choose which ones to send when I  make a send transaction.  It should also be user friendly as opposed to typing in commands in a console.  I will offer a 25,000 YaCoin bounty for anyone to make this feature if it is even possible...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: eule on August 17, 2013, 08:10:15 AM
There was a similar high bounty for making Coin Control compatible with Yacoin.


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: St.Bit on August 17, 2013, 12:34:53 PM
There was a similar high bounty for making Coin Control compatible with Yacoin.
Where is that? I think we need an official YAC bounty threat first. There is one at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200311.120 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200311.120), but it seems not in use much...

I will offer a 25,000 YaCoin bounty for anyone to make this feature if it is even possible...
In this threat that might get lost, so if you serious about that start a new threat so more people find it. I'd also add 5k to it, but at first we have to bundle all bounties for CC to see how much is actually on it. Maybe it would be a good idea to also put up the bounty in BTC to attract programmers outside of altcoins...


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development
Post by: sairon on August 17, 2013, 12:55:28 PM
There was a similar high bounty for making Coin Control compatible with Yacoin.
Where is that? I think we need an official YAC bounty threat first. There is one at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=200311.120, but it seems not in use much...

I will offer a 25,000 YaCoin bounty for anyone to make this feature if it is even possible...
In this threat that might get lost, so if you serious about that start a new threat so more people find it. I'd also add 5k to it, but at first we have to bundle all bounties for CC to see how much is actually on it. Maybe it would be a good idea to also put up the bounty in BTC to attract programmers outside of altcoins...

I'm working on porting Coin Control into Yacoin-QT client. ;) All bounties welcome :D

EDIT: The compile finished successfully, so it should work. Need some testers! Anyone interested?


Title: Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin o