Bitcoin Forum

In the unlikely event of several bounties being fulfilled at once, all my bitcoins will be gone.

BUT THE TIME IS NOW! We heard the .p2p folks sucks because they can't figure out how to decentralize allocation of domain name...so we're going take the glory for ourselves!

Since I don't know shit about creating something like bitcoin for DNS allocation, I'll pledge money instead. Here's the proposal below.
http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitdns_draft_0_1

Discussion on the idea:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.0

And Pledgers:

Kiba: 20 BTC.
Ribuck: 100 BTC
em3rgentOrder: 20 BTC
bencoder: 20 BTC
SmokeTooMuch: 1000 BTC
chaord: 2000 BTC
noagendamarket: 50 BTC
jorgen: 90 BTC
da2ce7: 50 BTC
forever: 50 BTC
Mahkul: 100 BTC

Total: 3500 BTC.

This is seriously worth doing. I pledge BTC 20

Just woke up...

Update complete.

I pledge 20 BTC.

Bounty rose to 60 BTC.

Keep the pledge coming.

20 BTC from me

Alright, we're on a roll!

Far out, I just generated twice in the last 24 hours!

So I will increase my pledge to 100 Bitcoins.

Thank you, ribuck.

If this will work as it should, without errors or serious security issues,
and if it is finished before .p2p,
I pledge 1000 BTC.
EDIT 10.06.2011: 1000 BTC is way to much now. I reduce my pledge to 20 BTC.
EDIT 14.02.2014: Just for the record: In the end I transferred 292 BTC instead of the originally pledged 1000 BTC.

Done. Now we're in business.

Of course, the more people donate, the more incentive there will be.

Pledge. Pledge. Pledge. Pledge. Pledge.

The race is on!

And oh yeah, pledge.

This is an amount I can show to my wife and justify blowing of a couple of dates.  Seriously, this is enough to actually get the thing started so far as an incentive.  It will be interesting to see how many others might be interested in claiming this bounty.

Yes, I know that it is for stuff completed.  We'll see who gets that to happen now.

If previous bounties are any indication, there won't be a developer that will do something to claim it.

I think it is also best that the project is a group effort if multiple developers claim it. The bounty splited will probably be not worth the effort, though.

The bounty is never going to compensate fully for the work, which might end up being thousands of hours in total. But the bounty shows whether people are serious about wanting something, and the bounty might just make the difference if someone is deciding bitween BitDNS and some other project.

I pledge 2000BTC if we can have a secure and reasonable usable prototype within 3 months. 

Thank you for giving us a boost.

Can you say more about what exactly this is?

/me points to a discussion link.

I pledge 50btc if people dont have to download 10tb of data just to use a bitcoin dns system.

 :P

Keep the ball rolling folks! I know this is not all of you.

I pledge 90 btc

We need a distribution scheme of some kind.

I pledge +50 BTC

I liked BitDNS, but I don't really care about the name as long as it works ;)

I pledge 50 BTC.

I trust kiba to be the final judge on whether this bounty has been fulfilled.

I pledge 100 BTC.

Update done  for Mahkul.

Bump, because Namecoin has been announced.

My offer still stands.

Will we award this bounty?

Announced doesn't mean working, he's trying to get it started, which is fine but there are still some problems with it.

Once we have a working prototype then great, once all (most) parties are satisfied then go for it.

What qualifies as working? I'm able to generate namecoins through mining, I've registered domain names with the namecoins that I mined. I've changed those domain name properties to have A records, and subdomains, and I've setup nameserver forwarding.... all of this works. I feel like there IS a working prototype.

What problems are you saying are sticking points for holding back the bounty dispersal?

Should we start collecting bounty reward? Is anybody going to pussy out because now this bounty represent 15 K USD?

probably, maybe we should just collect that amount in USD (at the time of pledge).

My pledge still stands, but I must say I'm terribly uneasy about the fixed limit on the total eventual domain names. That pretty much guarantees that namecoin won't take over the world's DNS registration.

Other than that, I think namecoin is great!

I'll pay up, reluctantly but cheerfully, if bounties are being collected at this time, but I'll be much happier if the limit on total domain names can be removed.

Agreed. Limiting the amount of bitcoins was a good idea, because it is a currency. Namecoins is not meant to be a currency, so I don't see the point of limiting the total amount to be created.

...and bitcoins are divisible. A quarter of a domain name isn't much use to anyone.

Can you say precisely what is limiting the number of domain names ?

The only thing which i'm sure of: the current maximum block size (1M) is limiting the possible number of updates. But, the maximum block size is not a real problem.

Is there any other limit ?

Vinced estimated a maximum of 30 million names (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6017.msg93333#msg93333). It seems that this is limited by block size, which can be increased.

So let's see if Namecoin scales reasonably. I haven't used Namecoin, so please correct me if I've misunderstood anything. I'm just looking at Namecoin from the point of view of "do I feel satisfied paying out my bounty?".

Here is my understanding (edited to reflect replies up to 17 May). Please correct any errors:

1. 50 namecoins are generated with every block.
2. The block target time is 10 minutes.
3. Generation difficulty scales the same way as Bitcoin.
4. The number of namecoins per block doesn't decrease. It's 50 forever.
5. There is no 21-million limit to the number of namecoins generated.
6. To reserve a domain costs 0.01 NC plus mining fees, so there is a hard limit of 720000 new names per day, but in practice the limit will be much lower because not all namecoins are used to reserve domains.
7. To activate a domain costs an amount that started at 50 NC but halves every two months, down to a minimum of 0.01NC plus mining fees. So after about two years, the activation cost (cost of "first update") will be as low as the renewal cost ("name update").
8. The renewal cost is 0.01 NC plus mining fees, at least once every 12000 blocks. In practice a figure of twice per 12000 blocks seems realistic, to allow for DNS changes and also for people to renew before the 12000-block deadline to avoid the risk of losing their domain names.
9. The mining fees are kept by the miner who generates the block containing the transaction. The 0.01NC fee to reserve a domain is sent back to you in the form of an unspendable coin that represents the reserved domain. The "first update" and "name update" fees are burned.

If these points can be confirmed or corrected, I'll have a better feel for namecoin's scalability.

(PS: Kiba: chaord's bounty had an expiry date, so the total bounty is lower than your figure.)

This shouldn't be a problem, same thing apply for bitcoin scalability.

True.


I don't think so, but it should be confirmed by vince (the code seems the same than bitcoin).


It's the same thing for bitcoin. Just a mater of deciding what value will scale well.


The lower limit is 0.01NC for a first update. Cost of a domain is constantly decreasing (second per second), at the rate of 50% each 8192 blocks (57 days) if i understood the code. Vince says "The network fee decreases 2x every 2 months" in the FAQ.
I've reproducted the formula of the source code here : http://dot-bit.org/tools/domainCost.php?block=3561
This is to limit the rush on domain names.


Yes.
All that you pay is lost, except for the fees that go to miners (like bitcoin), and the special 0.01NC that is send to yourself and reserved.
As Vince said, if you want to update sex.bit, it'll cost 0.01NC (lost) + a fee (like bitcoin, miners may refuse your transaction if the fee is too low)


As you promised a bounty for that, you've the right to put some conditions, and explain them. It's up to the implied people to find them reasonable or not. But, for that part, as i'm not the main developper of namecoin, my opinion imply myself only, even if i implied myself a lot in this project.

Thank you khal for your response. I've updated my previous post to reflect your clarifications. The points that are still unclear for me are:

1. Does the block reward stay at 50 coins, or does it reduce over time.

2. Is there a 21 million limit for generated namecoins.

3. The "special 0.01NC that is sent to you and reserved" is the coin that represents the domain name, right? It sits in your NC wallet but can never be spent, even if you let the domain name lapse, right? Where does this unspendable coin come from: the domain reservation, the first update, the renewal, or all of these?

khal is right on all points, except for the 0.01NC coin attached to the name.  That coin value can be anything, including one micro bitcoin.  There is no lower limit to the attached coin, the network fee or the transaction fee, so that does not limit the number of names.

The block size limit is shared by bitcoin, and will probably be resolved in the same way.  It will be increased when the need arises with plenty of advance notice.

Please go ahead and vote on the bounty.  I will share at least 30% with other developers and promoters.

One more point - I will sign the destination address with my PGP key when I post it.  Please verify first.  The PGP key is in the github repo: https://github.com/vinced/namecoin/tree/master/docs (https://github.com/vinced/namecoin/tree/master/docs).

Thanks for clarifying, vinced. If the fees can be arbitrarily small, then the 21 million limit is not a problem. And the block size can be increased as necessary. I no longer have any reservations.

The design is better than I had initially thought, and the business model seems sound and sustainable too. I wonder if theymos still has reservations following these clarifications.

Anyway, I'm totally happy and ready to pay my bounty. Namecoin is a great project!

ill look into this and see if i can do this, or at least start a team of programmers that would be interested in making an underlying framework for it. at the time though, im very busy, so im sure i wont be the first done if more people decide to work on it as well.... pm me if you would be interested in something.

~motsu

sorry for newb question, but what that about ?
something like multicastDNS[which is insecure in "vanilla" state]fork ?
with DNSsec and IPv6 support ?

Aim of the BitDNS concept is to have a decentralized DNS system (and domain name registration) which can't be controlled by external entities.
You can read the homepage of the dot-bit project (http://dot-bit.org/Main_Page) and the about page (http://dot-bit.org/About), which is an implementation of BitDNS concept based on the namecoin software.

thanks for clarifying/pointing links.
thats sounds cool and also can help other decentralised systems, unconnected[yet :}] to bitcoin ;)
or at least this project prevent dns-hijacking at least.

p.s. my ips detect "someone start sinffing you"-things on regular basis, after im start visiting THIS forum. on ISP side[accoring to IPS/IDS] :/

No, I'm happy to pay my 50 BTC. 

This is now going to be the most valuable single donation I have ever made in my life. ;D   But the developer deserves every Bitcent of it for making Namecoin reality. 

How should we go about this, kiba? Are you going to collect the donations first, or should we send them to the developer directly?

I'll be using an untrusted computer without access to my Bitcoin wallet from late tomorrow until 13 June. So unless the donation address is published tomorrow, it will be a couple of weeks before I can send my payment. No need to panic, the coins are reserved.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Thank you for the vote of confidence.  Sounds like there are no major objections.

The next steps for the project are:

- - building more client side tools, including an easy to use resolver drop in
- - better registration tools
- - public relations
- - marketing to distributions (Debian), ISPs

Here are my addresses.  Please pick from the list and send a maximum of 100 BTC per address if possible.

19HR5wcUtcb5PEtkGpTyKChcivD61JdcRf
1CKhTKK7knGokt7Vtk7mazR4Y9hJhJzSX1
1J18zj3dKKiZkGTEggveBEzxFtWMAXQ73C
16BRzMegdGAAR2ZZxX3TrZf6r3zEsSDKBH
1P7mCfFrYxsTk9NQdJqvF4YnSTN35vy4j8
1Juuy8QZXAYd6B4aaW3c9mb5PG6YbySboz
14Sn9aBYqfeZrrCo5Z8ycBwgNVaqe2oc3T
19MsNrskooodH56tS3vVeLs7zKNKNPKWgm
1A8daVTcuvm2Q7Vfw9rfLMua6exybDe2nK
1K44aRWSLkmC5KLvzp8awetNob6H99L9ND

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJN2wVYAAoJEJz+siqjwOQOFhMH/2QbhcbshNx8UnkvFEfZeM4x
Oe4J0R8aKufJbDN7DKWG065XAPa5xYRa+rSal395VtS5mC2CtIGhxX3/N53hQFp5
ZBpv4kMioQnP3ueQ2QqITEmBjhXO9rCR+4UTA7keSrBx1+IjedK8Wclpz3QxMw/y
gCTtG8cd+DFWvapffNe2SZilWhDBCq9zsREE3jhmaTJCNZod15LAqwxewDp7dyVZ
c+v/B4TgIVb04y4e5pwyVzVHD3fG5zg23Us5orlmoN1D9i2S4WoSm06g8t7p6vjl
Ya9oYfwDS+tRVavaXs56LmLUiuE8JfIf3yce6BV9oRhGfotwOM3LA3QKNlouHiM=
=+Umt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Is this different than the current Namecoin (dot-bit.org) bootstrap project, or are they one in the same?

They are pretty much the same.

Pretty much? :) Are the current Namecoin currency compatible (on the same system) as this?

Namecoin (http://dot-bit.org/Namecoin) is the software and the blockchain.
Dot-BIT (http://dot-bit.org/Dot-BIT) is the DNS servers, tools, wiki resources and support forum.

If you donate here, it'll go to the namecoin software author (vince) who promised a least 30% to "other developers and promoters"* (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=2072.msg126530#msg126530).

So, they are pretty much the same, except people are differents :p
I don't want to steal the bitDNS bounty neither, so, donate to vince who initiated all this (i'll track him with my whip to get some BTC :p).

Ok, I have verified vinced's signature.

Before I send my donation, I'd just like to make sure that the public key on github is trustworthy. Could somebody please confirm this?

Sorry for my extreme paranoia, but I been on this forum for a while and seen a lot of scammers... I just want to make sure it goes to the right person.

He's around :] ...just put up the Bat Signal!

It might just be me but the first link doesn't work. The one about explaining what your looking for.

Sry guys....
But the system is up, right ?
So where exactly should those 20 BTC go ?

What is the point of pledging a fixed amount of BTC if you are just going to arbitrarily reduce it later?

You should have just said "I pledge whatever I feel like giving".

The pledge was half a year old. Bitcoins weren't worth so much and I just wanted to support this project a little.
1000 BTC currently are worth >20000EUR...

It's still that bounty value that has fueled development of the project. We can't stop you from changing your mind, but it's highly uncool to put a carrot out to chase and then when you complete the task, only give half the carrot.

a pledge is a pledge. you cant lower it aftwards, thats not how it works. of cause no one can force you to pay it, but you´ll lose a lot of trust.

It's the opposite.
I was pledging one carrot. But to get you that one carrot today, I have to pay as much as for 10000 carrots back then.

Next time I will say I pledge whatever X USD will be in Bitcoins when it is finished ...

Just admit it. You got dollar signs in your eyes

That's besides the point.

You promised a carrot, not $400 worth of carrots.  And the developers were committing their resources expecting to get the full carrot. How you get hold of that carrot is your problem.

But perhaps this could be seen as exceptional circumstances … I don't want to pick a fight here. Of course it’s totally up to you how much you give; it’s your reputation you are risking in the end.

This should be a lesson to all of us to ensure the credibility of future bounties.

Either reserve the pledged BTC in a place where you will never touch them (like I have done).

Or denominate your pledge in a different currency.

No, u were pledging 1000 BTC and not one carrot. Thats a big difference. And u aint gonna talk urself out of it by talking about carrots.

pledged amount sent to vinced...

I'm pretty sure he can back-out whenever he wants. Its his BTC.

I have sent vinced the 100 BTC that I pledged. Thanks for making namecoin!

http://dot-bit.org/Dot-BIT_Project:Site_support (http://dot-bit.org/Dot-BIT_Project:Site_support)
Is this the right address ?

And do these things apply ?

I've thought about it and I guess 20 BTC really is too low ...
But before calling a new amount, I want to clear the things above.

forever-d, ribuck: thank you for following through!

SmokeTooMuch - PGP signed message with my addresses earlier in the thread https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=2072.msg138156#msg138156

The pledges were in BTC.

Ok, I tranferred a total of 292 BTC today. I apologize for not beeing able to transfer the whole previous pledged amount of 1000 BTC.

Yes. It doesn't have a nice GUI, but it's up-and-running, and it works.

forever-d, ribuck and SmokeTooMuch, thanks :)