Bitcoin Forum

     Mt.Gox will get shut down.  They have attracted the attention of government organizations across the world, and their failure to comply with international law will stand no longer.  They were given multiple warnings and chances to operate inside of the law, but they refused.  Clients who do not remove their funds from MtGox risk seizure and forfeiture.

     Mt.Gox's closing will serve as a warning to all the unlicensed illegal currency exchanges; Comply or you are next.  If you are a customer of one of the other illegal exchanges, know that you are also risking seizure and forfeiture of your funds. You have been forewarned.

SEC agent

lol

*Fastest ignore ever*

Haha, the best part about this FUD is it's subtlety.

Word sweet name bro

 :o :o :o
<--- GENUINELY SCURREDED
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

LOL

This, despite being posted by a fake "SEC agent," (lulz) is bullish news.

Bitcoin, by its very nature, is destined to constant regulatory attack. Even when the exchanges are all operating within the regulations, more will be passed to increase the regulatory permit entry barrier, and eventually bitcoin will be recognized as "Terrorism" and an all-out media FUD war will start. The IRS (and equivalent tax authorities in other countries) will get involved and start spying on and heavily scrutinizing the tax returns of individuals who use Bitcoin. There will be high-profile arrests on the news. The new NSA data center will maintain a huge database of bitcoin addresses and suspected links to users.

This is all good because it's, quite simply, guaranteed. A lot of people bought into bitcoin "hoping all this wouldn't happen" because they thought it would "kill bitcoin." The government can't kill the protocol, they can only make peoples' lives miserable who use it. And in case you think that will hurt adoption for the likes of "little old Grandma," guess what? In the 1920s, "little old [great-]Grandma" was whispering the secret password to get to the SpeakEasy. In the 1960s, little old grandma was buying terrible quality pot from some sketchy hippie dude. In the 1980s, she was buying cocaine from a sketchy street dealer for some exorbitant price. In the 2000s she watched her retirement investments get annihilated by Wall St. fat cats, and she also watched DVDs her grandson burned for her, who downloaded them via the P2P torrent protocol, which the government tried and failed to shut down by targeting businesses and end users rather than the protocol (which they can't touch). And now she's watching the government slowly become insolvent, worrying her that her social security check isn't going to come one month...

Have no fear, SEC Agent, Bitcoin is here to stay - and there's nothing you can do about it  ;)

Fortunately, news like the Gox news will weed out people whose opinion regarding the potential effect of government intervention on Bitcoin price is incongruent with their position (holding bitcoins despite the fundamental nature of their protocol designed to invoke the wrath of TPTB.) These people should sell all of their coins immediately.

i am ***FOREWARNED*** thanks for that...


in other news: http://www.fundweb.co.uk/alternatives/ex-blackrock-md-us-raid-on-bitcoin-exchange-is-hysterical-reaction/1071378.article

Make light of it if you wish. A lot of you wont be laughing when the exchanges serving the US (and Europe for that matter) get shut down one by one for non-compliance.

And what about the US based exchanges with the proper licenses?

You know that pretending to be a authority agent is a crime right ?

I would not discount a possibility that the entire house of cards is going to collapse before it gets this bad, 90% of the IRS staff would get fired, and they would have more important issues than spying on Bitcoin users.

There's a lot more to be compliant than simply being licensed.  Properly licensed financial services get fined by FinSEC for breaching financial services regulations all the time and many of those services have entire departments devoted to compliance and infrastructure costing tens of millions of dollars which is supposed to help them meet their obligations.

At this point, Bitcoin services are vulnerable because significant fines would likely wipe them out and 100% compliance isn't easy without a substantial investment in fairly sophisticated compliance programmes.

Was the government interested in providing us residents with a list?

 I would say those private individuals who are actually registered as transfer agents, professionals who keep the books according to commission standards, especially as a collective, would be financially motivated after research and interested in the potential market bitcoin would offer.

http://www.sec.gov/spotlight/enf-actions-fc.shtml
To me, it looks like a list of problems that cc could potentially solve, if you are creative enough. And market economists are plenty creative. We hand them Nobel Prizes nowadays.

If theres the slightest chance that bitcoin or some cc could become the next NASDAQ, expect to see something about bitcoin on this page. Otherwise, it was just a flash in the pan./

Which US exchanges have the proper licenses?  I've been trying to figure this out, no luck so far. 

When that happens we'll buy directly from the miners with cash money. 

who else is getting taken down?

Coinbase, for one.  They are not a full service exchange like Gox, but you can link it to your bank account and then do buys and sells.

Are you Nagle's brother ?

US govt. agent???

... got an extra special ignore button for them.

Well considering its the number one exchange in the world for bitcoins it has to be closely watched and regulated and maybe thats one of the reaons for being in this situation who knows so dont comment on something you dont know even though i do it all the time best thing is to let who ever knows what is really happening let them figure it out with mtgox and i hope its resolved for everyones sake and mtgox also.  Hate to see something happen to btc just because of mtgox or to mtgox just because of being the number 1 exchange.  im shure if this was a small excahnge all of these things would go unoticed for the most part but becuase of the amount of money involved maybe thats why who knows.  Whatever just hope for the best i guess i really dont know.

They haven't filled the papers the right way, forgot to check a couple of boxes, you speak as if they were taken down for no reason. Who knows, they might have registered as a money transmitter with FinCEN and no one would have shot them down.

Sure, they will classified bitcoin network as a big botnet and will issue warrant to shut it down.


LOL

Are you sure about that?  I can't find any documentation about Coinbase actually filling as a money transfer business.  I also emailed them a few days ago asking this question and they have not yet responded. 

Coinbase is definitely registered.

Go to the FinCen MSB Registration Search page and type Coinbase into the Legal Name field.
http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

P.S. SEC Agent... one of the lamest buckets of FUD in recent memory.

it is illegal to pass yourself off as a government agent when one is not

Thanks for the link, that is exactly what I was looking for.  Coinlab also registered, but not currently acting as an exchange since the Gox deal blew up.

My reply to "SEC agent" is that Bitcoin is just the beginning of the war against government-controlled money.  Soon there will be Ripple and Open Transactions and truly-anonymous, untraceable digital currencies.  Bitcoin should serve as a warning to all the governments that fail to respect the freedom and privacy of their citizens; embrace change or you are next.  You were given multiple warnings and chances to operate within your constitutions, but you refused.  If you are an employee of one of these governments, know that you are also risking your job and the value of your fiat-currency-denominated savings. You have been forewarned.

U.S. government employees should be the ones that hate the bureaucracy the most. I'm sure below free market wages, mid range health insurance and less vacation time than big business offers are wonderful though. I hope you have enough savings to cover your next unpaid furlough dumbass.

A GS-9 step 10 makes $54k a year and requires a masters degree - my neighbors kid made $19.00 an hour at a company called Allied as a security guard and studied at work while attending UCSF and with overtime made $47k a year.

The same GS-9 will get 4 hours of vacation per pay period or 12 days a year - the kid in college got 3 weeks from day one going to 30 days after 5 years.

The FEHB insurance plan brochures read like an overpriced nightmare - the kid is a union worker with free insurance and $5 copays.

Which international law did they fail to comply with?

Mtgox is run by incompetent, other-than-A-list players who got lucky to be one of the first exchanges in this space. Unless they get on the ball quick, their days are numbered.

What is happening now is that the A-listers are becoming very interested in the cc market. It will be a matter of time before gov is being pandered to and complied with to the great success of smart thinkers just now getting into this concept.

OK, you can call me noob. But I just couldn't figure out what FUD meant so I googled it. It just gave me THE laughter of all time :D check out the picure below xD

http://postimg.org/image/r47aw7uwr/ (http://postimg.org/image/r47aw7uwr/)

That's his username.  Nothing illegal about choosing a unique username in an online forum.

The largest exchange not being on US Soil is bad for the Government. What's not in the US can't be controlled. Gox gave them an excuse to shut down their accounts. Any excuse would have done.

I would guess the US government is pissed off like never before because of this. ^^ The US loves to control stuff.. at least that's what the rest of the world thinks.

I keep my fingers crossed that MtGox gives the US govt as close to nothing regarding customers' credentials and similar info. I do believe that's actually the case. Japanese as well as the chinese purposely perform less than their potential when they know it would result in gains for another country or a company that was founded by another country. This mentality I've noticed a lot when I've worked abroad in these countries... I think it's part of their culture, to be such nationalists and do everything they can to favour their motherland. I encourage this!

The SEC is really getting it together! They've advanced from browsing porn (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/sec-pornography-employees-spent-hours-surfing-porn-sites/story?id=10452544) [SFW] to trolling internet forums. Another few years and they might even start investigating big banks and other insiders.

You can ignore this guy as much as you like, but I am still waiting for my frozen € at bitcoin-24.com (biggest EU exchange)

+1

Unfortunately, that's no longer true, thanks to Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties. Here's the one between the U.S. and Japan: http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/treaty0308.html

I'm not implying that the U.S. will pursue Gox in Japan for failure to register with FinCen, but the mechanism is in place should they choose to.

As long as the exchanges are complying with all of the laws and regulations in all of the countries they do business in, and are paying all of the appropriate taxes, there is no problem.  Of course, this is easier said than done, and will require things like full and proper identification of all of their clients, and reporting of any suspicious activity to the proper authorities.

You make it sound like regulations are purposefully difficult to comply with.

As in controlling Bitcoin. Stoping it from becoming the dominant world currency. If the dollar stops being the world reserve currency, the US is screwed. No more printing money to pay for wars!

No, it's simply a side effect of dealing with finances internationally.  You have to comply with your own countries laws as well as the laws in any country you are dealing with.  FATF/UNODC/IMF recommendations need to be taken into consideration as well. 






 

So, are you full of shit at no extra cost or are my tax dollars paying for that too?

Your tax dollars are being used to prevent criminal organizations and terrorists from laundering money across the globe.

sorry but us thinks everyone is a terrorist....

Well, if it my money that's paying, make sure you torture those nasty terrorists like you did at Abu Ghraib for me.

The US does whatever is necessary to protect its citizens and interests.




Torture is a violation of international law, as per the Geneva Conventions.  I'm sure you mean "enhanced interrogation", which is not illegal.

sooo mtgox "free trade" should be legal :p

seriously you yanks do make me giggle

You have been ignored.

Get in line.

MtGox has had plenty of time and opportunity to operate within the law.

bored now, please go away or ill replace you with a very small shell script

That sounds like a brilliant idea.

Which international law did they fail to comply with?

Wasn't the FinCen guidance which changed the definition of bitcoin to be considered a currency thereby changing gox's role to that of an MSB only published in April. and then the warrant was issued... what, like 3 weeks later?. plenty of time, really?