Bitcoin Forum

Do you believe the FBI holds the biggest number of bitcoin?

How would we know?  How certain are they?  We can't tell because nobody/no one would say how many bitcoins he/she has on his/her hands :P

Indeed, it seems the U.S Government now running the show :)
I don't think U.S will just sit back and watch the show rather jump in.
Bitcoin is spiking since January, the time President TRUMP took the office.  
I was curious though, I often ask myself who are the guys that are really pumping money in the bitcoin in the recent months, perhaps is .... :)
The first question we have to ask ourselves why did "Satoshi" left bitcoin??? Perhaps, the cowboys has taken over ;D
These are just my thoughts and nothing more.

Nope i dont belive that . In fact they are hunting it and trying to destroy the all network of blockchain
They just want like we to pay fees and to be dependent by a goverment

I love theories like these but I'd say it's more of CIA than FBI :D We know that the US government made TOR and bitcoin was first huge on TOR network (deepweb) and also the maker of bitcoin is not known. Why's that? Well maybe that's because they don't want us to know rather than the creator likes being anonimous.. Who knows, but it's interesting to think about it. :p

Don't they usually just sell it off when they confiscate it?

If you replace "the FBI" with "the Government" then yes, it is quite possible that government agencies learned about Bitcoin's potential in the past.
And since that time decided to buy a significant number of coins, just in case Bitcoin will become a real big thing in the future (when 1 BTC will be worth 1 million USD or more in next 20 years).
However, this whole discussion is nothing but one big conspiracy theory as there is no proof to back it up.

There is a chance that they actually do have heaps of bitcoin and I suspect so due to 2 reasons
- Not sure if this is the FBI's job, but the US government try and catch people who have a lot of bitcoin and seem to avoiding tax.
-The FBI is always talking down another dark net site after another, and bitcoin could help posing to be a buyer on the site.

They have more than 40% of btc-e bitcoins


"By July 2017, AlphaBay was ten times the size of its predecessor Silk Road (which was busted in October 2013), had over 369,000 listings, 400,000 users, was facilitating USD $600,000 - $800,000 of transactions per day"


"Cazes is arrested in Bangkok at his dwelling at Phutthamonthon Sai 3 Road in Thawi Watthana district which is searched by the Royal Thai Police, with the help of the FBI and DEA."

I think Bitcoin is too small and insignificant for governments to invest in it.
If you're asking about the FBI I think the only coins they are holding are the seized ones but these will be put on auction sooner or later.
Maybe if Satoshi is really a government employee and it's all a big scam... Am I going too far? ;D

It doesn't sound like that's the case. The exchange has been saying that most of their fiat funds are frozen, but that their crypto is intact, and they say they will relaunch in 2 weeks. The FBI and related agencies never stated how much (if any) was seized.

To the OP... I know the US Marshals auction off confiscated coins... but it's very true that we as the public lack the details about how much the government has successfully seized over the years. It does seem like a race against time for governments to accumulate bitcoin, doesn't it? It seems the US has made clear how they plan to get their dirty hands on them...

In most cases they are. If they are looking to auction off whatever they have seized in Bitcoin till today, they would be earning multi millions (considering btc-e coins and everything that comes from deep web markets, etc) at current levels. I don't see anything pointing to the FBI or whatever agency to hold any significant amount of coins for whatever purpose -- they are only interested in liquidating these 'obtained' coins to finance other operations.

The possibility of this happening is very much high because with the amount of hiest that we have read alone is alone to go that  believe, not to talk of the myriad of several small confiscations that would have happened but because its not big enough, it does not get the media attention and because of the fear of prosecution, then the owners are left with no option then to forget about such stash of btc with the FBI.

i dont think FBI can hold anything, big people or corps. they have the biggest amount of BTC, thats why there is a hidden guy called satoshi nakamoto, otherwise we would have more information rather than his name.

imagine  at the beginning of BTC how much BTC mined by satoshi and his crew

The USA always want to be prominent in everything that goes on in the entire world,  I will not be surprised that not only the FBI but the whole government is involved in the bitcoin business, with bitcoins they can easily fund a lot of their projects without seeking funds from the central government.

Almost all of the coins the FBI holds currently came from seized deep web marketplace and some from illicit activities by individuals—which are mostly related to tax evasion. Also, these coins tend to go into auction immediately, so I doubt they have that much coins since bitcoin is still a small ripple in the financial ecosystem compared to gold and USD.


I like the conspiracies and the wild imagination. Perhaps Satoshi himself is the Feds and bitcoin is one genius tool to enslave us yet again, who knows?


The feds do have large controls in every sector a society has. That's how powerful they are despite being a small unit in the government.


That is approximately 1 million coins mined from Jan 2009-November 2009 where mining isn't really the thing of the blokes.

I clearly disagree with you on this matter. The US Government has the power to issue paper money, US dollars, and they don't need digital assets. They're controlling the world's economy.

After btc-e ambush, FBI maybe seized many bitcoins. We can't know this.

I think when silk road got seized, they held the coins for investigative purposes, and then ended up auctioning them off in bulk to any bidder at a much later date. I might be remembering things incorrectly though, someone feel free to correct me.

in the grand scheme of things, i suppose its not, with a market cap (in usd) of under 70 billion dollars with 15.6 million coins in circulation. compare that to a ~4 trillion dollar annual budget for the us government. The theory of satoshi being a government agent and bitcoin being a secret project has come up before, but i personally dont think there's any actual reason to believe this was ever the case; if it was though, we'd be living in a much more digitalized world and bitcoin would have a much stronger economical presence.

U.S Government first underestimate the power of bitcoins. Later on, when the silk road was invented then they saw the full potential of bitcoin. And understands he who controls the bitcoin will control the financial world in the future. then they started digging for information about bitcoins and they pretty much got everyone in the circle i guess and the took over from there.

Yes we do not know, but most probably yes. We dont know how the FBI works as some of their jobs are done secretly. But I think they own a substantial amount of bitcoin from their raids, seizures counter intel works and so forth.

Who knows? If they are holding the most number of bitcoins? Possibly or possibly not? They are making some drama that they don't want to support bitcoin but in reality they are the ones who has the most or they are telling the truth that they really not into taking an interest with bitcoin. FBI,US They always hide something from the people.

It is an another great conspiracy though but it will just stay like that and nothing we can do about it but in my own opinion I think if there is a department or group of people that holds the big amount of Bitcoin is non other than the Chinese people because they almost capitalize the mining of it and we all know that Chinese is a smart in terms of numbers and fluctuations.

Why would the FBI have a huge amount of coins,the coins they have confiscated are the auctioned and so i really do not think they will be holding the coins because of their past auctions,so this is entirely a speculation which has no truth in it.

But how do we know where all the coins went? Just because they auction some doesn't mean they use the new money to buy more or they keep some of the confiscated ones. It only makes sense the FBI is collecting Bitcoin now because if it becomes huge they will not have any unless they get their hands on it now for cheap which is exactly what they are doing.

I don't think so. There is no connect between FBI and Bitcoin.

No I believe that the genius Mr S Nakamoto does. And he will possibly be the richest man on the Earth, ever.

No I don't. I'm not too familiar with the FBI, but I know enough that I don't think they'd care to hold large amounts if it. I mean, why would they? Sure bitcoin is a big part of some investigations, but how would it help them by holding tons of bitcoins themselves?

They have much more powerful and widely accepted currency than bitcoin and that is USD, they can buy almost anything or anyone with it so no FBI isn't holding bitcoins for their own use or to make the US economy stronger.

I think this is possible, the amount of seized Bitcoins by FBI from scam crypto companies and hackers is damn to high. Just recently, after FBI seized a scam company, ETH pumped a lot.

Well...

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36168863

Isn't him the creator of Bitcoin?

Anyway, I don't believe anything close to FBI holing any amount of coins at all. Perhaps FBI agents trying to profit from it, sure, but FBI itself? lol

Wtf is wrong with you guys. Stop with conspiracy theories about everything.

I'm not quite sure. We all know that there many issues involving those organization. USA is on of the leading in bitcoin industry and USA is wide, we can't be sure that it is on FBI. We don't have enough evidences to believe that. FBI is not the only organization there that is connected to bitcoin. Who knows, what if it's just a cover up for a much bigger organization. Its just a theory, there's no certainty to that

Probably not the biggest number in the world, but almost certainly within the US. It is extremely beneficial for the government to hold on to bitcoin if keep in mind the great potential that it holds for the future. Now whether or not it is beneficial for bitcoin users is another matter as the governments intentions will probably not align with ours. None the less what can you do about this situation. If I remember correctly the government had an auction for the old silk road owner's bitcoin wallet address, this is the proof in the pudding.

Good observation and I do believe so, that FBI has a bigger stash of bitcoins. We dont know because its confidential and they operate stealth fully.Many underground trading sites are already busted,seized and closed down.

LOL

who knows?

But I am sure they did not pay for a single satoshi, they simply rob it from people who mostly (not always) worked hard for their coins.... ;D

That is the advantage of being the biggest bully in the playground. You can make up arbitrary rules, and rob others by blaming them for not following these rules.  :(

I am thinking the same. FBI is just using their advantage as a " rule bullies". We all know many things about bitcoin being holded by higher ups because of a crime, and where do we think they are using that? Since the silk road, there is a lot of bitcoin in hands of FBI.

Well like what you've said, We can't say it. Though, I'd still believe if you said CIA. *Conspiracy Theory* We all know that CIA holds a lot of things. For sure they are are the one who gives out leads about those people who holds a lot of Bitcoins. As some of the people say, In CIA nothing is impossible. They could do whatever they want and also, they could manipulate everything. I'll not be shocked if I knew that they are also the one manipulating Bitcoin's market.

Also, Government or Powerful/Rich People. This is quite interesting as we know that Many of these powerful and rich people, always try to find ways not to pay higher taxes. They could probably invest their money in Bitcoin for them to avoid taxes and also to gain more profit. Especially that the trend of Bitcoin today is quite favorable in their favors.

Most certainly the FBI holds  alot of Bitcoin, although I don't believe they hold more than anyone else in the world.

we don't know if this is true or not but i think maybe fbi is holding bitcoin too but about the amount, i don't want to think about it. its better to not thinking about them and better doing what we can do to make profit for daily so we can continue for make money. about the amount, i think its their biggest secret and they don't want to tells to every body.

Maybe you're right! we just don't know about all this are speculations but may be true! CIA hold a lot of information globally and even bitcoin holding I think they have. Bitcoin can be also used for those wealthy people to avoid tax even in underground world used this bitcoin for there illegal transaction because they think it can't be trace.

Awesome theory buddy, kinda want to believe it so badly ,cause if they're really behind the BOOM that bitcoin is living right now, i can't imagine what's coming in the few years following, i really hope they keep up the good job  :P

If any altecoin named FBI might as well have the FBI hold a lot of bitcoin.

It is just my thoughts, I maybe wrong or maybe not. Bankers or owners of banks has the biggest number of BTCitcoins why? Because in due time they will be the one controlling it. In due time, it would be realized, soon be open to public and we can't do about it.

We will never know for sure if any of the governement agencies like the CIA or FBI holds a substantial amounts of bitcoin, that is if they can prevent such information from being leaked. I am pretty sure though that they have a good monitoring and tracking on what’s going on in the bitcoin community and the transactions that take place, be it legal or illegal.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Yes, the "government" does have a lot of Bitcoin. We will never know, and there will always be a ton of conspiracy theories about it.Isn't that part of the allure of Bitcoin though?

Why You are asking about only FBI holds bitcoin or not? Bitcoin not made for only FBI.
But i think they must use it not every employ of FBI are using bitcoin but sure they know very well about bitcoin and may be they are using it.
Also FBI belong to investigation team, if they are using bitcoin, then it mean bitcoin is pure good crypto currency.
But you are right, we have no idea to know that FBI are using bitcoin or not.

Excuse me, Where did you get that information anyway? the only things I know that the biggest number of bitcoin who holds it was China, because it has a large bitcoin mining farm in the whole world but not FBi.

I don't believe that. This is probably one of those informations that someone has made up and another conspiracy theory. Maybe some people think that because FBI has carried out some big investigations and takedowns of dark markets on deep web and thus came to the possesion of large amount of bitcoins. But they can't keep those bitcoins for themselves or use them. But I'm sure they are experimenting with bitcoin in some ways. 

I guess no, China supports bitcoin and others lot more than US government. I don't think FBI has anything to gain from btc as dollar is world's #1 money in usage.

I think you're referring to the bitcoin wallet that the fbi confiscated from Silk Road which contains 144,000btc. Been seeing this in btc news and other websites. But I don't really think that they are the largest btc holder simply because it was other's wallet that were just seized by them. Technically, it's not their btc.

You might want to see this link.
https://news.bitcoin.com/the-whos-who-of-the-bitcoinerati-the-new-1/

I never know if the FBI also holds bitcoins. If true this is good news. bitcoin can be received by the FBI, as we know the FBI is a government body against crime. They invest bitcoin maybe they think bitcoin is a good investment and profitable for them. It motivates me to invest bitcoin. I do not know the amount of bitcoin they hold. Probably in large quantities. Because this institution is a big government institution

As to me, that's unlikely

They seem to be selling the coins that they seize in their raids and operations at auctions. For example, in 2014 they sold  a quarter of the bitcoins they had seized at Silk Road. I don't know what's become of the rest of these coins, but they might have been sold later. Anyway, it should be obvious that the US government agencies keep some bitcoins for their operations but I don't think that destroying Bitcoin is one of their primary aims or targets. Bitcoin is too good a tool for capturing criminals to get rid of it completely

Bitcoin is good as a world political propaganda media, I'm sure the FBI keeps a lot of bitcoin accompanied by senators who are actively campaigning about bitcoin, the auctions they have made can not be officially demonstrated, as in the case of illegal drugs, they always take more from Just burned or auctioned back to the public.

Oh, an interesting question. But as far as I know the FBI is an anti-crime organization in the United States, I do not think it's economically active. Please let me know any reason why you think they hold bitcoin?

Is this a kind of another conspiracy theory stuff? There is no like a reliable news from Times or Newsweek or any other reputable media institution that is reporting such a thing. This is another product of an imaginative person I guess. Purely that.

I think his thought is issue about FBI and BTC-e exchange, but I remember BTC-e exchange has said they will refund the funds of their user 45% total money they keep in this exchange, then 55% will convert to token from their IPO :)

In any action must be a reason. I see no reason for the FBI to keep bitcoins. I think that most bitcoins are stored on the hands of the whales. I don't like the most, but bitcoin is a democratic currency, and it can have all.

i hoope not !! i hope NEVER..
i dont want to work nor invest with any government .. so many corruption they can easily control  something

I don't say that they would not want to have the biggest number of bitcoins. They had the silroad bitcoins, rumour said they had the bitcoins of Mtgox as well. Now maybe some btc-e.

But I would not panic about that possibility. Because this possibility is very slim. The Usa government is known for its incompetence. So I would say if they try to do something the opposite would take effect.

I would guess they have none of the btc - all sold during the 2014 bear market.

Yeah I'm sure the government owns a lot somehow.   I thought it was the secret service
that seized a bunch, but the fbi did too IIRC.  Wonder if the government is paying taxes on their
gains...lol.  But I still wonder who's got satoshi's coins.  I always suspected that was the gov't.

No. That does not sound right at all. One could figure out how many coins they hold as evidence. Of course they don't actually own them, they are in possession of them until the convictions are done. There have only been a handful of seizures and most of those have since been auctioned off by the Federal government, which does own them.

Bitcoin owned by the FBI = 0

They certainly have some coins

But I don't think that the amount is very high, of course. They need some coins for their undercover agents anyway. Remember when the Silk Road coins had been seized, some agents tries to hide a certain number of bitcoins for themselves? That was hilarious (that the SR case produced more lawsuits against FBI agents than against Silk Road itself). Anyway, Bitcoin is handy and useful instrument which the ABC agencies casually use in tracking down criminals. Or who they think are criminals (read Btc-e here)

That is a good point. They probably did buy some for investigations. And maybe some for training?
I stand corrected.  :)

That's sort of obvious

It would be more ironic if Bitcoin has been in fact created in some obscure NSA laboratory or stolen from there as is often the case recently (like it happened with, say, the WannaCry ransomware code). I guess they use everything that they can lay their hands on (drugs, weapons, forged documents, and whatnot), and this is what we should naturally expect from them. I'm curious how the Italian "FBI" gets inside the mafia since to get accepted you will have to shoot down a policeman?

Yes, no one can really tell if the “cowboys” are investing into the platform. They might have been doing so for a long time, but decides to do it secretly and let the world believe that they have nothing to do with it. Though some of us believes that Japan is the force behind the pump, while some sticks to North Korea being actual reason.

Actually, the FBI most likely does hold the biggest number of Bitcoin. The US gov and all other govs would be unwise to at least get a piece of the pie before it hits $1,000,000... then good luck!

If I am not wrong, then they sold all of the coins which they got from Silk Road. But I guess, they are still in the custody of the coins, which they seized after the arrest of Alexander Vinnik. But they can't sell these coins immediately, as the BTC-e owners can claim that the crypto belong to their users. It won't be easy for the FBI to get the ownership of these coins.

This is plain stupid. Have you heard of the FBI arresting somebody for running a bitcoin node?
And now you don't pay fees? Of course you pay, but to the minervent.


No they don't.
And the FBI is not the government, this is not communist Russia where everything is run by the same person.
In reality the FBI has already sold at an auction the coins they have seized.

I don't think that FBI holds the biggest number of bitcoins but they hold a big number of bitcoin for sure because they have a lot of intelligent people right there and having those people can do a lot of research about a person or the latest technologies that could possibly help them a lot like bitcoin which already gave them profits.

As far as i know most confiscated bitcoins are usually auctioned but of course they still have some in their possession but not to the extent of being the top hodlers world over.
Biggest hodlers i disagree because they sell their bounties and how i know i have some news sources:
* http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-government-auction-winners-2017-5
* https://www.coindesk.com/unknown-bidder-buys-1-6-million-bitcoin-us-government-auction/
We wont be able to tell because no body holds them accountable for their crypto raids

What you are telling is true to some extent but no one can confirm that whether they are holding or they have sold it or destroyed it. But it is true also that who ever is the highest holder he is some what related to the higher official.

Anything is possible,nmy frien.  Don't let Anti-conspiracy theory people make you think you're crazy. It's OK to be paranoid.
The "Left eye" probably watching us always. You ask too much questions, your front cameras and microphones would be activated.

Actually i think that really is possible because they know they can't stop bitcoin's rise. So knowing the us, they always want to be ahead of anything. So they just might have gotten themselves some great amount of btc instead of doing all sorts of things and getting no reaults. Plus all the confiscated crypto currencies from all the big time illegal dealers that were caught, i think it's just fair to think of the possibility that this can really be true. That's just what i think though.

Maybe, because they want these coins?

After all, the FBI is essentially what is police in other countries at a federal level. But police is known for its venality as well as corruption, and I don't think the US federal police is an exception to this rule. Aside from that, they have a lot of undercover agents, whistle-blowers and similar outcasts who may need bitcoins (as well as other coins, for that matter) to use these coins in their nefarious activities (just like they need drugs, arms, prostitutes, and so on). Just recall about those FBI agents that took Silk Road bitcoins for themselves and think whether they don't really need Bitcoin? And they are the ones who got caught but how many of them got away with it?

YESSIR

I don't think your reasoning behind your statement is backed by any proof, rather on assumptions I believe. Thee fbi have seized the silk road and BTC-E as of recently but I don't think they have the most bitcoin in their possession. The most of silk road got auctioned off. I think satoshi holds the most bitcoin  (and well deserved).

The biggest number of coins there must be at it's creator Satoshi Nakomoto. But if to be honest, nobody knows who is this holder who has over 1 mln. of coins. So, now we can create threads on the topic who it may be and discuss it nonstop. I suppose this fact will stay as the mystery till the person will uncover itself  :)

I don't think if ever there is one who have tons of btc will reveal their selves to anybody. I doubt if his too courageous enough to do such things knowing that it can attracts attacks or hackers on his account and will just lead into chaotic life due to people who envy him. He might reveal he knew btc and teach them how to use it but never how many he already have.

Guys if we talk about the topic of this issue, then you need to first answer that question, Is it true that all special services, including the tsar, were the initiators of creating such a thing as the Internet. If the Internet has already been created in order to have access to the thoughts of the whole of mankind, then I think that there should not be any question about the crypto currency.

Nah, I don't believe that. It is just a conspirers theory. They are in the game as they use bitcoin to do "track analysis" in order to find the bad guys which resides in the dark web. There only bitcoin is used and all bitcoin of the FBI are seized from there. The rise in price it is because of the more and more publicity from the media and the ransomware latest viruses.

Who in FBI holds Bitcoin? FBI isn't a person and only Individuals can hold Bitcoins.

If there is a party trying to control Bitcoins it's China. USA can be watching it, but I don't believe they are trying to have control over it or anything similar...

Naaaaaah why would anyone want control over a multi billion dollar industry that popped up from nothing.....?

The US Marshals Service (US federal agency) had custody over the Silk Road coins and other bitcoins that were taken in various seizures and later auctioned off.

If the US government held bitcoins like gold reserves, I'm not sure which agency would be tasked with holding custody. Which agency handles the gold reserves? The treasury? In fact, where can we find out how much gold the US government is holding? This is public information, right? If the government is holding bitcoins (beyond asset forfeiture-->auctions), you'd think that should be public, too.

FBI, CIA, they created bitcoin or they have control over it or have control to destroy it. I do believe in this kind of theories whenever I can find some logic in it. USA is the most powerful country and I do believe that they are creating our reality on global level. Bitcoin become very valuable and I am sure that they wouldn't just watch whole event like by standing observers. Exact story behind the cover, we can just speculate about. So I think that it's possible that they have the most or can make it worthless.

There is not proof either way, besides satoshi should be the one that has the most bitcoin of all since he mined most of the first blocks, besides if any government agency has bitcoins that should be the CIA and not the FBI however it is difficult to believe that any government is holding large quantities of bitcoin, in a way that will be like admitting that at the end bitcoin is going to win.

I do not believe in it. This question makes me feel contradictory. If FTP is keeping a large amount of bitcoin, why are they trying to block the blockchain network. If that happens then I think the government must recognize and acknowledge bitcoin as legitimate. Not trying to assign it to fees

Hmm, checked it now. They hold Bitcoins from criminal activities but auctioned the Bitcoins next.

I think it's hard to hide information about it. They must say how many Bitcoins they seized, so they must auction the same amount.
It would be easier to be bribed, so there wouldn't be records, but I don't think FBI does this kind of thing.

Lmao.. such a funny answer. So you call the USA fools…lol. Who told you is only individuals that can own Bitcoin ? This platform is irrespective of who you are, whether in person or company, you can have an account. The USA government is likely to be investing into bitcoin secretly; these people are likely to do the unexpected.

So, yes! The FBI is likely to be involved in this, and as a matter of fact, they might even be monitoring the forum to see what’s going on (I said likely to, so that doesn’t mean they have an account, cause I’m assuming they do)

I think that the FBI as a company will do everything strictly by the book. The coins that fall in their posession will go to auction.
For the individual agents there, I'm not so sure about it.
I suppose it must be very tempting if you find a bitcoin wallet with access data that is filled with money coming from crimes.
If some of them want to make some extra money, honestly I can not blame them. Especially when you consider the source where it is coming from.

They have caught a number of people who are accused of doing illegal business with bitcoin.
This is just a show but what really happened to the bitcoins of those they caught?
That seems like a good question to think now?

Did they made an act just so they could take whatever the accused man have or is it really for justice?
A good way to hoard bitcoin if you are the authority isn't it?

I'm not so sure and know about the FBI. But for what FBI hold bitcoin? I think they can do whatever they want, because they have the facilities and the ability to do it.

FBI is one of the biggest corporations in the world and they have it's budget where they can hold bitcoins. But I don't think it's true. I rather suppose that the biggest holder is Satoshi, but again, his existence is still not proved.

We are discussing FBI here. This matter is not a light one. Involvement of such agencies is possible. Also, FBI likes to bud in all sorts of matters and technology. I believe this news to be true. Even if FBI has hunt down illegal activities on dark web, it is the same. They possess a heavy amount of bitcoins. And nobody knows what they have done with it.

The FBI(state) could hold a lot of bitcoin seized from Mt. Gox, Silk Road, Alpha Bay, BTC-E and other investigations / seizures / forfeitures.

They could hold a lot of crypto although I can't remember anyone looking up statistics on what their holdings might look like.

I essentially agree with you

Big seizures and forfeitures like those you mentioned (though I'm not sure about Btc-e, it kinda looks they didn't get the cold wallets) are in the public eye, so there is nothing the agencies like the FBI can do apart from auctioning the seized coins off. That said, we still shouldn't forget about the numerous smaller cases involving less bitcoins and less publicity as well which are certainly there and which never make it into the news. And these bitcoins could make up a sizable amount of the whole stash unofficially belonging to the FBI. Let's not forget about the secret prisons used across the world by the CIA

I dont think that FBI(it is organization) is holding some bitcoins, eventhough USA goverment is the only one who is going against cryptocurrencies in the world. On the other hand some powerful people with a big bag of money, even from FBI can deffinetly hold some bitcoins, why not.

That is some easy question. The government always hold the most money and hold the key of economy. Have you ever heard about massive spy program in the United Stated ? It can be use to control economy and social problem around the globe. So if they don't have money, they will find a way to make money. It simple and easy, right ?

Why do you ask this ? I would like to make some Bitcoin rather than asking about someone's Bitcoin.  ;D

Yes i think so, or maybe the government, but it is probably because they are seizing a lot of bitcoin exchangers at the moment. I think that the US does not want bitcoin in this world, the reasons are obviously, they dont want bitcoin to destroy the banks.

The US government may not like it, but the cat is out of the bag, and they know it. I think they are trying to exert as much control as possible (like they do in everything else). That means tight regulation, which also means fining and/or shutting down unregulated exchanges. I'm definitely worried for the fate of Bitfinex and Kraken right now. Hopefully the US government will just slap some fines on them and allow them to continue operating. But I suspect more action will be coming against unlicensed exchanges.

As for the banks, BTC won't destroy them. I think they'll start offering bitcoin services (for a fee), and they'll start raking in peoples' bitcoins before you know it. :P

I think it is more complicated than that

The question is certainly about control, but we should keep in mind that Bitcoin (as well as other currencies) may be a handy tool (a very handy at that) to track down criminals (just try tracing cash transactions). I mean to say that they might not be interested in exerting too much control over crypto beyond a certain point after which folks will start running away from Bitcoin. Regarding Bitfinex specifically, I'm more inclined to think that it should have fallen first before Btc-e (since it is a bigger and thus more tasty piece of shit, so to speak), but it kinda looks that all they managed to achieve is to block fiat payment channels for this exchange, to and from

Let me explain it to you in the simplest way possible. Silk Road is an online black market and best known platform for drug dealing. Ross Ulbricht is an alleged silkroad mastermind. FBI has seized his bitcoins. Guardian said the digit is 26,000 and Forbes said it is 30,000. Actually, different websites show different value. In order to seize anyone’s bitcoin, you need his private key and a BTC address of your own. I am sorry to say but I did not hear a word about what FBI has done with the seized bitcoins.

Well, figures seem to differ in different sources

I heard that they had seized something like 144,000 bitcoins (i.e. over one hundred thousand bitcoins) from Ulbricht in late 2013. The US Marshals Service auctioned off something like 50,000 bitcoins (there were some news about the auctions as well as dudes who bought them), so the rest of the coins should still be held somewhere. Anyway, they could basically have sold the coins to themselves if their intention was to retain the Silk Road bitcoins by any means possible

Why would the FBI have a huge amount of coins,the coins they have confiscated are the auctioned and so i really do not think they will be holding the coins because of their past auctions,so this is entirely a speculation which has no truth in it.

Do you think that's all that will happen? I tend to think there are things going on behind the scenes. The charges in the BTC-e indictment go back to ~2012, and the investigation would have begun after Gox fell in early 2014, if not earlier, given the nature of the charges.

So if we draw a similar parallel to Bitfinex, they've been operating as an unlicensed MSB since ~2013. Fortunately for them, they weren't in operation at the time of the Gox laundering (its predecessor, Bitcoinica, was). If the BFX tokens qualify as unregistered securities, and they very well might, then those charges would stem back to August 2016.

I think blocking fiat payment channels was possibly a first step in a larger game.

We don't and can't know that for certain

But how many people heard about the US financial authorities making charges against Btc-e before it got seized? I don't think that many since otherwise the owners of Btc-e should have prepared the exchange for this kind of action (unless they are complete dumbasses, which we can't exclude either). On the other hand, Bitfinex had issues with the CFTC as early as 2015 (if not earlier), so they are well aware of possible consequences that getting in the eye of the FBI might mean. Thus I'm more inclined to think that blocking payment channels is in fact the best (or the worst, depending on your point of view) that the US security agencies like FBI could do to Bitfinex. In other words, they are tough game and ready to fight back

Like you say, we can't know anything for certain. In fact, we can only make rough speculations as to what is happening behind the scenes. The CFTC decision may not be relevant--each US federal agency has separate jurisdiction. So the CFTC gave them a slap on the wrist for the way they handled their margin funding (IIRC). But that could be entirely separate from a criminal investigation by the US Attorney's office, the FBI and FINCEN regarding unlicensed money transmission or money laundering, or things like that. It would also be totally separate from SEC investigations into their BFX token distribution and their token markets. These investigations take years to come to fruition.

The thing is, Bitfinex is simply huge. I think they are too big to hide if the US government decides to move against them. The question isn't whether the US government could get their dirty hands on all the money; it's more about getting them blacklisted by an industry that is entering a new era of regulation.

We cannot be this naive, a government is not a person either and yet they have properties, responsibilities and all kind of holdings from land and fiat from other countries to gold, we do not know if the FBI is holding any bitcoin but if the higher ups in the FBI wanted the institution to have some bitcoin in case it was needed then they could easily arrange that.

The numbers from the Silk Road are already well known.Actually there were two amounts that have been seized related to Ross and one to the users.
I really don't understand why are you talking about it like being some mysterious event when we have like 100 threads about them

You have all the data you need here with the sources
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337#post_toc_52


Oh, and Silk Road "was".

It seems the FBI and the CIA can do anything they want and have their way so I wouldn't be surprised if they are holding a chunk of bitcoins at the moment. It's just possible even without proof.

I don't think so. Why would be FBI hold Bitcoin and how will they got those Bitcoin? The criminals they caught does not all have Bitcoin and once caught, they might not tell their password and wallet account to the FBI agents. They can still deny having their Bitcoin.

Lol conspiracy theories.  ::)

If they did have many many bitcoins let's hope the burn them all and bring the value of Bitcoin up for the rest of us. Or would they try to manipulate the market ?


I guess they think it's probably from confiscated Bitcoin from criminals on scam exchanges and the likes. For example the siezure on mtgox.

I do believe that government do really have some decent amounts of Bitcoin on their hands.Remembering on the site that they have seized back in the past on which they do have confiscated or make hold of those bitcoins and im sure until now they do have the power or the holdings of those coins. Government wont just be blind on bitcoins progress and they would definitely go with the flow as long theres money involved on it.

I agree that the ABC agencies are pretty independent of each other

And this is likely the same in other countries too. For example, in the times of the USSR, the Soviet police, MVD, (which roughly corresponded to the FBI) had been in conflict with the KGB (which was more like the NSA in its function). So it may well be the case with the US intelligence and financial agencies and commissions as well. But this is not my point altogether. I mean that since Bitfinex has already had plenty of conflict with the US agencies by now, they should be prepared to almost anything any of the US agencies is going to undertake against them. That was not the case with Btc-e exchange

I had never thought about it, but it can be true. If they really understand how bitcoin works and its potential, could be easy and cheap for the government to buy a lot of Btc and hold them, it could be happening actually right now.  But I don't think that they are holding themfor some conspiracy kind of thing or something similar, only economic interests or maybe politicians.

You are underestimating the agency. You really think that they won't be aware of this technology. When we, common public, know that criminals are using bitcoins for illegal activities with the help of bitcoins, then FBI must have its hand on such info years ago. It’s not they may it is surely they have bitcoins. 

Exactly you cant predict anything,without proper evidence and facts. This happens even if there is no bitcoin,like people hide their fiat money in places so that they can avoid tax or they try to avoid their shady business or even worse. The FBI won't tell anything public,you gotta keep your hands tied until facts prove something. I have heard stories about FBI holding some amount of bitcoin,but not sure if its true or not.

The only reason for security agencies to hold bitcoin will be to manipulate the price or to try to make some sting operations, they are not going to burn bitcoin since that will help the holders of bitcoin, at best I think they will be forced to sell it if they are not allowed to hold bitcoin for some reason, after all bitcoin is valuable and they could use the money for something else instead of just throwing it away.

I know what happened to those coins, but we will get to that in a bit:

https://www.wired.com/2013/12/fbi_wallet/


Thats 120 million dollars when bitcoin was crazysauce cheaper. To be fair, they did auction these off, but  I am not sure if they auctioned off ALL of them ( I stopped paying attention on the third tranche; and Im too lazy atm to look it up). Since then, we have had:

Hansa, with a total compromise (wallets were seized)

Alpha, the same,

and BTCE (which many members of the board can describe to you with colorful language).

They havent even reported the amounts of coins in the last seizures, and that does not include the less publicized, more frequent smaller confiscations ;)

We couldn't really expect a lot of publicity from the agencies like the FBI

The bottom line is that the higher Bitcoin price goes and more valuable Bitcoin becomes, the more incentive the FBI will have to keep the coins to themselves. As far as I understand it, the proceeds of the auctioned coins don't fill the pockets of the FBI itself, so there is no economic reason or interest for them to sell off the seized coins unless they can't hide them. Let's not forget that even ordinary FBI agents tried to steal a few bitcoins at the times of the Silk Road seizure

That’s strange, though if they hold it would probably be for some investigative purposes and not really for cashing except the government and the central bank know about it. But this is seeming ridiculous, maybe they use it to sponsor their spies on the darkweb

After satoshi and winklevoss twins maybe. but who knows

haha! any proof to back this up? Or are you wearing your tinfoil hat?

Anything related to bitcoin is possible, bitcoin is anonymity which means we don't know who the identity of bitcoin holders is. Can be known the identity is when bitcoin holders exchange to fiat. Because usually exchanger asks ID verification for doing transact.

It's probably, only a rumor. FBI can't have that much bitcoins. But I'm sure they seized important amount of bitcoin after they arrested btce officials and took their machines including wallets.

It's a mere speculation but there could be some element of truth in that. FBI or any organization in that stature would want to control a portion of Bitcoin at least for future reasons best known to them so I will be the least surprised if it turns out to be true.

Isn't that possible BTCe servers were encrypted (including wallets of course), and FBI seized no bitcoin at all, only hardware ?
If I was BTCe, I would have strongly encrypted the data for sure, just in case...

On the other hand, I'm fairly sure 3 letters agencies own many bitcoins/monero and use them to sponsor their shady activities, this just make sense.

Yeah I also think same like you, FBI use bitcoin to make payment to their spies, but I do not  believe that FBI hold the biggest number. If it is true then in short bitcoin price is in the hand of FBI, and think what, it means bitcoin price is in the hand of America. Well it is strange for me like you said. But I believe FBI have sufficient amount of bitcoin that they will use for investigation purpose.

Governments are not innovators they only redistribute the money, so they charge taxes and then they pay someone to do something for them, that is they way it works, If bitcoin begins to challenge their power I think they are going to take the easiest approach they are going to join the crypto market and each one of the governments of the world are going to issue their own crypto.

It is not just about encryption only

The FBI didn't just seize BTC-e servers but they also arrested some people affiliated with this exchange. We all heard about Vinnik but he is likely not the only dude arrested by the agency. So if they have caught people who know the keys from the wallets, and if they haven't yet told them to the FBI, it is most certainly just a matter of time until they do (provided the funds haven't been withdraw already). Anyway, cold wallets weren't on these servers, therefore it all comes down to whom the FBI arrested (Vinnik seems to be a small fish himself)

Things are getting worst than worse with government and bitcoins. If anything like that happens, we will again get stuck in the same place where we are right now. They will be controlling our money, we will have to pay taxes, everything will remain the same except the fact that then it will be just in digital form. Kill me before that day, please!

I was thinking like you until I realized there is one major difference : new Bitcoins can't be created from thin air as they do with regular currencies.
But yes, they will do their best to recreate the situation we are now.

I'm surprised if fbi holds a large amount of bitcoin. are they investing or is it in the can of a person's crime results? no one could have guessed it. I think everyone can have bitcoin unnoticed by others because bitcoin is anonymous .. fbi may store bitcoin and use it for a specific purpose. they enter the world of crytocoin because it may have a mission to track the movement of money laundering done in the country

The fact that the possibility exists that that governments may issue they own crypto does not mean that you are going to be forced to use it, investors will see the advantages of having a crypto like bitcoin that cannot be inflated to oblivion and that is decentralized, so while a government issued crypto will slow adoption it will not stop it completely.

A more likeable theory is that the Illuminati may have the hand on this ball game. The Illuminati controls the CIA and practically almost everything and everyone on the planet. Even Satoshi himself may be an Illuminati member! If not, an Illuminati member may have gotten hold of Satoshi and took over his creation in behalf of the Illuminati...yes, all speculations...but who knows right? It's a crazy world now a days with a lot of crazy things happening!  ;)

Well US agencies such as FBI and CIA maybe holds number of Bitcoins. Though, I think CIA holds more than the FBI. Since all the information used by the FBI somehow came from the CIA. As we all know that the CIA can manipulate everything. We don't have a chance to know it, They are for sure classified and hidden under the radar. CIA and FBI are one of the most corrupt agency in the US and for them everything is a business.

They are indeed seize every single bitcoin they found on several cases especially silk road mega case ,
But if you follow up them , you will know that the confiscated bitcoin are auctioned as soon as possible ,
So fbi clearly did not hold their confiscated bitcoin ,
Satoshi remain the biggest bitcoin holder now or later.

There is no way to know who owns the biggest number of Bitcoins.

The early day coins still are around and there is no way even to know if someone has their private keys.

They always sell them off for their good old American Dollars so I highly doubt they own the biggest bitcoin balance let alone a big one at all.

Yeah that's a very nice question. Why they need to hold the bitcoin.? What are the reasons why they confiscate/hold bitcoin.? So if FBI hold/confiscate bitcoin it has a possibility that is illegal.? I wonder this topic.! 😒😞

well everyone has the right to own something like bitcoin because bitcoin is not for someone special so for me if they want to buy bitcoin with their salary and they want to own some profit then it is not bad at all so bitcoin is increasing because it is now being use by the government people ad in this case maybe bitcoin will get legal as a lot of people are waiting for. So! They just might have gotten them some huge number of bitcoin but doing of every type of thing for side income.

FBI always a step ahead from what we think..so i think they already hold bitcoin years ago.
maby north korea also did the same as FBI.

Bitcoin inflation, the rate at which coins are mined is halved every four years, while inflation in fiat is controlled at the discretion of politicians and bankers this is what makes bitcoin attractive you have a very good idea of how many coins are going to be created in any given year so there is transparency but we do not know how much money a central bank is going to print.

In every case of bitcoin criminals arrests, the FBI always gets a large amount nominally which is finally auctioned by federal courts, but I do not really believe it because they also store a lot of medicine in their warehouse for business purposes, I think also applies to bitcoin, they hold a lot of bitcoin in their pockets because this is a very valuable asset.

Maybe, specially the cyber crime unit where they usually apprehend all illegal cyber activities and transactions which means they get to take also the bitcoins though I am not sure where will it go after.

for this one we can only guess whether FBI agents or other governments have large amounts of Bitcoin deposits, and I do not think so, because they are government agents and in government salaries.

It is obvious what the governments have the biggest number of bitcoin :-\

Haha  :D I don't think FBI needs it. btw I think that all of us should invest our money in btc. I also believe that project that can effect offline economy are more reliable and has big future. We all have admit that world economy will change soon if ICO wont be banned. So Confideal (contacts), Atlant (buildings), ADEX so on.

The FBI always take most of the assets they confiscate, even they will play secretly not to reveal full assets to the country, there is always a conspiracy in it, I imagine how much they get from btc-e and not transparent in public auctions. Then what is auctioned, cryptocurrency? This is very ambiguous because the US government does not recognize bitcoin as a legal tender.

Yes, they had bought a huge amount of BTC very early when BTC was very cheap.

How do you know that?
Did they publish it?

Maybe its true, they have the best specialists in same sphere, but to be realistic I think they just keep that in secret, if they need money they just can make them in some seconds, I can believe they have some shares in bitcoins but its only assumption.

Less convincing. Maybe FBI holds bitcoin but not as the biggest holder. Because, I am still optimistic bitcoin until today hasn't been used as tool to perform activities on basis interests of FBI.

The FBI doesn't hold shit. A couple of them tried to steal some from the Silk Road investigation but only for themselves and they have since been on trial so don't worry about the FBI lol.

I will not say that they have, huge amount of bitcoin.
FBI, is the number one enemy of Hackers And illegal traders in black market.
FBI, has captured many illegal doers in internet and get all the things that they have bust.
But, I think that the FBI is the richest organization. They Hold the Internet so they might have it.

Its hard to say that the FBI holds the biggest number of bitcoin but it is know that they seized a number of bitcoins worth 144,000 BTC and these bitcoin worth about $100 million but this does not mean that the FBI are the largest bitcoin holders, there are so many new players in the bitcoin world.

I would not think the FBI could hold anything, big guys or corps. they have the largest number of BTCs, hence why there is a hidden man named satoshi nakamoto, otherwise we will have more information than his name.

Just imagine in the beginning how BTC BTC mined by satoshi and his crew.

yes FBI hold large number of bitcoin in silk board scam

the famous FBI theory that created the bitcoin I presume?

We don't and can't know that for certain. I wouldn't be surprised if they are holding a chunk of bitcoins at the moment.

I can only say one thing: the governments of all countries are now interested in crypto-currency and the US is no exception.
So now everything can happen, and we can not know about it.
But this is just our guesswork...

I do have doubt in this sort of speculations at whatever point I can't discover some rationale in it. USA is the most capable nation and I do think that they are making our existence on worldwide level. Bitcoin turn out to be extremely important and I think that they wouldn't simply observe entire occasion like by standing spectators. Correct story behind the cover, we can simply estimate about. So I feel that it's conceivable that they have the most or can make it useless.

This is possible because investigations have shown that they sized hundreds of thousand of bitcoin worth $120 millions this make FBI a  global stakeholder in Cryptocurrency.

They might have a large number of bitcoin but I think a group of hackers have more than that.  We know that they confiscated those btc on the darknet but let's say they got 1 billion worth of it, it's still nothing because hackers can steal more than that in a short period of time.(Yes, I'm talking about exchanges.)

I think, that is might be the truth,because in this case, US government can manipulate and control crypto world and market.

I would not know for sure since FBI doesn't really disclose those kind of information to the public since it is of a personal investment of FBI. But I don't think the FBI would think of holding on to bitcoins since they don't have a clear use for it. They are enforcers of the law, not som big fish investors.

yes FBI hold thousands of BTC those where held in Silkroad drug deal they are still holding sooner or later they will auction

Probably the FBI does not hold the biggest number of bitcoins, but for sure tens of thousands of Bitcoins which they have seized from criminals. But some of them has been auctioned if I remember well.

Yes I do believe on your statement. FBI has alot of bitcoin in their hand instead they will give it to the real owner they will just hide and keep it in their walletd. So I don't believe on them they should give it back to real owners.

Yes I do believe. They aren't born yesterday. They are smart enough to understand how profitable to invest in bitcoin. But not realy in huge numbers. Just an opinion  ;D

Of course they have the most coins, the usa government made Bitcoin listen to the russian reporter who said the CIA created bitcoin

I have never thought of that but now you made me thinking. I am pretty sure some of the US Government hold pretty big numbers of bitcoin

Really?

http://bitcoinist.com/fbi-silk-road-bitcoin-loses-2-4-billion/


To me it doesn't look at all like they are holding BTC.


Those were sold more than 3 years ago.

Was it because the FBI news had managed to capture Medvedev a few days so that the FBI is said to be the largest bitcoin holder? I do not think so. Because there are still many out there people who hold more bitcoin than the bitcoin confiscated FBI. The bitcoin confiscated by the FBI is not his but the bitcoin belongs to the people who have been tricked by Medvedev so the FBI should return the bitcoin to those who have been deceived by Medvedev.

No. They don't at least to my knowledge they do not hold the biggest number of bitcoin. They do how ever have bitcoin that they have seized over the past years from criminals. Satoshi holds the most amount of bitcoin about 5 million.

As you said we don't know. But I guess the investors back then are the one who holds more numbers of bitcoin because that time bitcoin is very cheap. The whale investors before have the big amount of bitcoin to support it for now. We see bitcoin prices in every day changes. I guess there is a relation with that.

I think it is their best interest to have bitcoins in case their financial status suddenly takes a turn for the worst. With these record amounts of bitcoins, they can fund their own army for years. I think if we knew their bitcoin address, we can snoop out their bitcoins snd check how much they have.

Thatbis a very interesting topic that you have there. I cannot say anything in this topic but to ask too if this is a truth and on how do they acquired that huge amount of bitcoins. As far as i know bitcoins are untraceable in soem illegal transactions or maybe they have an inside man so everytime that bad guys transact in bitcoins in illegal activities the fbi interrupt and collect all their bitcoins. If they are doing that for a good cause i am going to be gppd at it because it is for the sake of may but if just for themselves i dont think so.