Bitcoin Forum

Well so far, sellers on Cryptsy are following the all too common trend for killing a new alt, starting sales at the highest bid for buying, for some reason you people cant hold back just for a little while and start selling at a much higher rate, eventually people Will buy higher, but all you tards sell out, and ruin what could have been a really good profit for the rest of us -

pump and dump? :)

what did you expect?

It's a slower version of WDC. If you're expecting miracles with the price good luck.

Aliens?

That is why i always advise our goldcoin community not to hurry to have the coin on an  exchange. First buildup a big loyal goldcoin supporters and than go to exchange. Now all those miners only want to be fast on an exchange to dump their millions of coins.

cryptsy is a disaster for altcoins, there's little hope with cryptsy in existence in my opinion.

lol, No I wasnt expecting a miracle, obvious there all pump and dumps - but you would think people would learn their lesson by now to make extra cash, but killing it seems to be going at a faster pace now / much faster...

the hashrate has doubled in 24 hours...

don't judge a coin's fate based on a shitty exchange :)

I keep hearing that about GLD, I guess we'll see, I have some, but I honestly think it will be forgotten before it ever makes it to exchange, and itll die -

Actually a lot of loyal supporters have bought out those people waiting to be on an exchange and dump there millions of coins, and now the coins are held by loyal supporters.

Its going on cryptsy and it hasn't been forgotten about.

The exchange rate for DGC on Cryptsy seems similar to what they were selling for on here.  .5 BTC per 1000 = 20 LTC per 1000 = 2 LTC per 100

So nothing has changed.  The coin retained about the same market value.

There are not a million coins in existence to be dumped. The current coins outstanding is 334,564.2 and they are owned by thousands of different people.

Also, no one is killing DGC, people must test the lower bounds of markets before building confidence.

Stay strong.

I have actually sold every coin for more than I did on this forum... in the last couple minutes. Pay no attention to the small orders don't get hung up look at where the big orders are at. I'm making money if your not you are doing it wrong.

Pumpin DGC right now.

Yes, feels more like an initiation than a death.. let's see what happens..

You can blame me for picking up all the shares this morning...   ;D

-tb-

This is a valid point. The goal of investing should shift toward making other people money, not one's self. If it did, the world would be a better place - for other people.

The coin has been on the exchange for not even one day, how is it killed? You are misleading people with the title of this thread....

i only sold 8k of mine...

I'll sell you all my DGC for a penny. meet me in the park at midnight. bring as much cash and valuables as possible. I'll be the guy in the black clothing with a ski mask and a large hunting knife. don't be alarmed though, i'm a nice guy.  ;D

what you expect when mining in one pool so he get scared and dump his coins

Too few DGC for the price to keep so low forever. Just hold your coins.  :)

sold all mine and bought a website.

https://bter.com/trade/btb_btc

It's just following the all too common trend for Alt Coins. Sell/Buy here at inflated value, get to a shitty 'exchange' (like cryptsy or mnxderp.com the scam gutters of trading) and dropping like a stone. The end.

They are either idiots that don't know how to trade on an exchange, or stooges that are there to deliberately keep the price down. Either way they have spoilt a good coin which should be selling for 0.003 BTC not 0.00056 BTC I have stopped mining DGC because it is selling too low. Coinchoose  is misleading people into mining coins that are hard to sell or sell for too little.

It doesn't help that BitBar has literally no use. At least you can make an arbitrary case for why DGC is valuable (short transaction time, fair release). BitBar had about 75% of it's output mined in a few hours and it can't be used to "consolidate" anything. It isn't designed to be anything except a wallet.

If you think they are selling too low, then why not buy?  It's a free market, if miners want to sell their coins low for a small profit -- then fine.  Mining rigs aren't free.

If it should it will.

Relax I dumped my WDC early, cause I knew there were millions of them and that the coin was just too fast to be secure . (I think they have an unwanted fork on their hands now).

I am not selling this one .

People werent selling that much even here. Price will rise. Steadily and naturaly. (not like WDC initial pumps)

I haven't sold any WDC yet because of people like you dumping below it's price. DGC is almost identical to WDC so there are millions of DGC out there too for you to dump. Please go mine BTC where you can do little harm.

Getting the price wrong on launch can set it back weeks even months.

You are wrong, just about 300k of DGC have been mined.

I am sorry but I did not believe in WDC. Just my view.

As of this writing, there are 22626 blocks out there, which equates to just under 345,600 coins total in existance...

# of Blocks   Total coins
1080    2,160
2160    3,240
3240    5,400
4320    10,800
5400    19,440
6480    31,320
7560    46,440
8640    64,800
9720    86,400
10800    108,000
11880    129,600
12960    151,200
14040    172,800
15120    194,400
16200    216,000
17280    237,600
18360    259,200
19440    280,800
20520    302,400
21600    324,000
22680    345,600
23760    367,200

For those noobs that don't know how to do basic arithmetic to work out how much a coin is really worth relative to the cost of mining it, here is a table. It's all about the designed number of coins to be produced per hour.




You can see clearly that DGC should be worth twice as much as WDC yet people sold it for less.

lol LTC $15 -- good luck with your pipe dream.

It's attitudes like that which distort the market. If you don't understand the basic arithmetic then ask or leave.

The market isn't based on any arithmetic, only what people perceive as worth.

Basic math doesn't dictate the value. And where is gldcoins on your chart?

you are not factoring in the amount in circulation.  If I own a company that issues 1 share a week I think its pretty important for my shareholders if they in total own 1 share or 10 million shares.

the rate of coin generation is only half the equation its also the amount that is currently out there.  but as others have said it is also based on demand.  I million coins is worth one value when there are I million people buying it and worth another value when only 10 people are buying it.

Also, if you had your way and it was linear -- there would be no reason to mine anything but BTC, since they all would produce the same amount of money in the end.

And your numbers for FTC are off, so much for simple math..

200 x (3600 / 50) = 14,400 Coins per hour

WDC vs DGC the race to the bottom

streisand effect, good job.

Correct, the only difference between the coins would be the energy required for SHA256d vs scrypt, and the good will component of each coin.


That's why the majority of people only mine BTC, and are seeking to reduce energy costs via FPGA/ASIC etc.

Doesn't stop my table being a useful guide for relative values to show people just how far out they were with DGC price.

Just so there is no confusion, here is the correct data:


I agree, DGC is selling for less than the other coins that produce way more coins.

There is a typo on FTC it's block time is 150 not 50 I must have typed over it by accident when I pasted here from my spreadsheet and trying to get the columns to line up.

It would be way lower than everything on there because so many are being mined in a short period of time.

It's lower because people are stupid and assign too much good will to BTC. LTC has been around for ages, is trading at a fraction of it's relative worth, which kind of blows your "many millions were mined in a tiny tiny period of time" theory.

Remember DGC started off with low coins per block too, and for the first couple of hours most people were getting nothing but orphans.

Market is getting diluted. Every pump and dump since Feathercoin has finished off quicker than the last. Development continuing on past the selloff phase is what will determne is a coin has potential staying power.

This is why I support DGC. The lack of premine & the low block reward for early adopters should help to negate this problem.

How many crypto coins have disappeared from exchanges?


Those things are kind of trivial, because the pre-mine issue only pisses off miners, traders don't care where the coin comes from on the exchange as they have no way to know, they are only interested in price and volume.

except you miss the glaringly obvious variable of coins circulation.

DGC is just a WDC clone that's why the prices are tied to each other why would anyone buy pretty much a copy cat for .003 when they can get WDC for .0005

BTC-E has removed quite a few... RUCoin, FBX, TBX, GeistGeld, I0C, CLC, DVC, IXC. There may be others I've missed.

That's partially true, but the hourly creation rate of DGC is much lower than WDC, enough to give DGC greater value assuming all coins created are  in circulation which they won't be. Unfortunately sites like Coinchoose don't factor in the creation rate and number in circulation.

You seem to think that the market is wrong. The market is never wrong. If you fail to make money off rallies and pullbacks then you're wrong, not the market. Everyone makes their bets, when things go in the other direction we made a mistake, not the other way around.

I don't think the market is wrong, they are your words. I think the sellers are idiots, they don't understand the difference between coins. I believe DGC should eventually be worth one third of LTC plus or minus good will.

People who believe that the market is always right, are usual the ones that fall for market manipulation tricks. Fortunately there are many people left that still do fundamental analysis and can spot a lot of the manipulation.

You sir are absolutely correct :)

you sir are also correct lol

I am just buying right now. I can't mine anything substantial and I know comparative to other alt-coins this coin has good enough chance to snap back. Especially once it gets on a larger exchange.

Nibble and DGC are the newer type of cryptos. Sadly, Nibble died due to mining pump & dumps. (When a lot of miners start mining and then suddenly jump. It creates a unbearable difficulty spike) Now if someone makes a coin like DGC and Nibble that is more resistant to mine & jumps then I will possibly switch my mining efforts.

Man, I never expected DGC to drop so fast. And right now, the lower block reward, and fair start, are actually causing it to devalue further. I hope things change, when it hits an actual exchange.

Wouldn't the lower block reward make it devalue less than a high block reward? And a fair start wouldn't necessarily devalue it but make it more valuable to start off due to the lack of supply?

I'm just buying as much as I can.

The block reward makes little difference as long as the blocks are still coming out at the designed rate. It is a miners problem, not a traders problem. I too hope that DGC makes it onto BTC-e.

Even though this early, low selling hurts the coin, I don't think it will hurt it too much. I think the coin is healthy. It's clear that their is faith and trust in the coin. I attribute this to the honest attempts of the dev to be fair, transparent and active. The launch was not perfect, but it was possibly the best one I have seen. The coin does have merit. Those just wanting to make some quick, secure money have the right to sell low and early. I expected it to happen. I certainly wouldn't sell so low. DGC is worth more than that to me. I don't want to horde, but I am not going to sell low.

The Dev of DGC is one of the most respected Dev's, in my book. I really wanted his coin to succeed, but you know, miners who have more hash power, then braincells, will just continue to dump blindly

Early miners are going to dump. It is very irritating, but if you don't dump early, you lose a lot of value. It's the same for any coin. The good thing is that if you believe in the coin having a future, you get to sell your mined coins and buy back in really cheap.

I have faith in DGC, I can't see anything wrong with it. It's fast and not many in circulation. I have a small sell order on Cryptsy, but at what I think is the appropriate price .00838BTC which is one third of the current LTC/BTC price. I am patient, I see no reason to sell if it's below what I think is correct. I have lots of other junk coins with less potential to sell.

Well why didnt anyone support it at launch. I had 2k to sell when cryptsy finally sorted out their problems but instead started buying. With 1btc I got the selling price up from .0005 to .00077 and people started to buy at that price. It would have taken 1 more btc to get it to 001 but nobody else came onboard. I evetually sold 1btc worth at .00065 and kept my 2k dgc which was probaly a mistake at this stage.

It's good to hear you say that. I have read many of your posts, and I know you don't hold back.  ;D

You say "wanted his coin to succeed". This is just the beginning. I expected there to be a group wanting to cash out early for whatever they can get.

If I had any BTC left [I cashed out to pay tuition :sadface: ] I would have bought some as well.

Also, I took a look at Cryptsy. All the sell orders at that moment anywhere close to the actual trading price were for less than 1 BTC. It looks to me like people with just a few DGC are trying to consolidate their coins. For the most part, those

There's no doubt DGC is one of the better supported coins, both by the dev and the community, and it seems pretty stable with no major problems so far, and there's no-one screaming pre-mine or even bashing it very much.. why shouldn't it go on to succeed?

Because at this point it's incredibly redundant.

Because a lot of us was asleep when it launch and we weren't able to deposit until late this morning.  Once deposit was working, I bought out all shares up to 0.00079 (high for the day), including a buy for 2927 shares @ 0.0004.   ;D

I must have bought out some of your shares at 0.00065.   ;)

-tb-

 ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D The fear mentality ... people ... hellooouuu ... the coin is only 3 days old ... i'll mine and hold mine  8)

Good luck to you selling ... i'll buy it when I get home ;)

Well, true.. but isn't that always the case in the beginning?

You think BTC too? Even now?

IMHO The reason price of DGC (and any other new altcoin) falls as soon as it hits an exchange is:

a) Lot of alt-coins at the moment
b) Only miners are aware of the 2 day old coin (who are sellers and not buyers)
c) Those with low latency and high hash power need to dump the coin ASAP before moving on to another. That's because history of all recently launched coins (FTC, CNC, YAC) points to same thing. Price goes down for the first few days and then stagnates at low prices.

I agree, but if it's going to happen to every new altcoin then it's not really a reflection on the coin itself, and the question becomes one of how to survive it?

Perfect comment




They add every Shi** COIN

I too think all alt-coins are redundant including BTC. Answer to following question should suffice.

1) Do you really need bitcoins? Is there anything you need that you cant buy with fiat currencies?


To me Bitcoin has two major purpose.

1) Bitcoins are useful for those wanting to do shady transactions on silk road and similar websites. But that's not why you are holding your bitcoins. You are holding bitcoins because you think that someone will have the need to use bitcoins for shady transactions and the value will go up.

2) Almost free money transfer internationally. You can send bitcoins from US to Europe for a small fee of 0.01 BTC. Fiat cant beat that. But do you need to transfer money internationally? You think that someone else will need to transfer money and this will drive the price up. There is a catch in this too. we are forgetting the fees involved in transferring fiat> BTC by sender and BTC>fiat by receiver at the end of the day.

The fiat/BTC conversion step can become obsolete if we all get paid in BTC for our jobs and we can buy groceries in BTC but thats too optimistic. Even if our employer pays us in BTC, he would need to get BTC from somewhere? He cant have ASICs churning in basement to pay all the employees.

Trouble is the market locks in at the low price, and it's damn near impossible to break away from it unless some media announcement gets the ear of the traders eg. rumour that LTC is going to Gox. That's why it annoys me when the miners don't take care with their initial selling price, you have a couple of minute window at setting the initial price, and they blow it.

Exchange doesn't decide the success or failure of a coin. Buyers and sellers does. Devs and PR of the coin does.

In case of DGC and cryptsy. there were no sell orders for half a day (because of the glitch) yet no one was willing to buy higher than 0.005.

How to survive is all up to the developer and he is doing a great job.  Him being active will keep the community active with this altcoin.
As I said before, an inactive developer will lead to an abandon ship.

-tb-

Let's move it over to our own forum: http://digitalcoin.co/forum/index.php

Now you don't have to sort through posts :).

The one to survive will survive based on Darwin's survival of the fittest theory. The coin has to be innovative and coin needs media and  mass awareness and support to survive.

I meant do you think BTC is redundant, even now?

What is redundant? The coin itself or the way a percentage of people are treating it?

May be not you. but most people do pay fees to buy and sell bitcoins (exchange commissions, buy sell spread, exchange with drawl fees etc)

You haven't answered the question. Why do you need bitcoins? I mean YOU not other people.

P.S. I do hold bitcoins and want to see still higher prices, but just trying to do a fair conversation here.

But.. but.. this is just getting interesting!! :)

It's not a matter of need. It's a matter of want. I want to make a purchase without directly or indirectly paying a 2.99% fee. A good percentage of purchases are made via credit card. Multiply this out and that is how much we are being charged collectively to use CC and debit card purchases. Why are we paying this much? The vast majority of my customers pay via credit card. On some purchases, the profit margin after cost, fees and taxes is so small, that the financial institution makes more money than I do. I understand that we have to pay for the service, but times have changed. We now have the Internet.

So, the obvious question comes to mind, why are you even at bitcointalk.org?

translation: I don't actually believe in this coin myself, but my greed told me to hold out for a higher sell price but unfortunately I missed the peak and now I am coming to terms with having to sell at a much lower price or hold coins that may never recover

I want to learn more about the currency.

P.S. I do hold bitcoins and I am all in for the fun ride and want the prices to go up.

Right... because if I have this same conversation with my friends or family, they will think I'm crazy...   ;D

-tb-

The reality is these coins are backed by:

1.  The length of the blockchain

2.  The difficulty

3.  The amount of compute power necessary to maintain the network

Bitcoin is the most valuable because it has (1) The highest hash rate, (2) the longest block chain, and (3) by far the strongest network

LTC is a runner up

Most of the alternate coins are a pale shadow of BTC/LTC but over months and years a few winners may emerge.  We're undergoing an experiment here to sort out who those winners may be.

I agree with most of that, except the compute power to maintain BTC network has shifted from GPU to more energy efficient FPGA/ASIC devices, and the other coins are still on GPU.