Bitcoin Forum

Okay so first of all you buy bitcoin through places like coinbase and cex.io and so on, and they usually have a higher price for bitcoin then the market price, so you get screwed there. Then there is a huge fee to actually purchase the bitcoins. Then there is a transfer fee to the exchanges. Then there are trading fees. Then you send it back to coinbase or wherever for fees. Then you try withdrawing to cash out...and there is fees. Then year end you have to do tax, which is the biggest fee.

These "profits" are reduced by like 60% by the time you cash out.

Are people doing something different or am I not understanding this? Because there are WAY too many fees and then you gotta do taxes? Like damn.

What's everyone elses method?

Definitely, there are many fees involved in here since those who are providing the services for Bitcoin also want to have a slice of their earnings. Now, the best thing to do is just HODL...forget about your Bitcoin for months and let time fly...by the time the value has already risen astronomically then that is the time to convert it into cash. Now, if you want to get involved with trading then you should use other exchange (Bittrex for example).

It's either they are bagholders or they won't be cashing out unless they have a lot to cash out. The fees does only matter when you have a small profit but for those big time traders and holders it's just a cent out of their big profit. Try to understand that don't cash out when you've got a little profit.

True, there are many fees but if the price was much higher when you cashed out it would hurt less.  Unless you can purchase using bitcoin there will always be fees attached.

All fees can be covered from your profits, a trader will definitely calculate it all and I'm sure it is. I am not a trader and I am a gambler, and I always count all the fees and I will withdraw if I have really profited.

I know right, that is insane, so man fees that we need to pay. That's why i never buy or sell bitcoin on coinbase and cex.io, the fee is so big and it's like we only receive 70-80% of the total amount because that all fees. I usually buy and sell bitcoins with a person, that person is like an exchanger here in my country. So i don't need to pay more fees, which is feels good man lol.

Much depends on the amounts. If it's $50 or so then yes much of it will be eaten up. When it's larger amounts the fees are negligible.

If you'd bought at the start of the year then you'll be ridiculously in profit. Constantly attempting to scalp small profits won't lead anywhere other than either a loss when you get it wrong or the fees munching the whole lot.

Not everyone does profit.  That's the rub.  There are plenty of people out there who bought Bitcoin, or more likely some random altcoin, at an all time high, spent money on fees as well and then never got it back.  They're generally referred to as Bagholders, slang for a shareholder left holding shares of worthless stocks, or here in the cryptoverse, worthless altcoins.  Many of us here have done it.  A few years ago when I was still a n00b, I lost money on a few different crapcoins.  They sounded like they'd be profitable, but then tanked.  But luckily I made up for it with some far more profitable trades and learned a few things along the way.  That said, even now, there's absolutely nothing preventing a sudden shift in the markets from turning my, or anyone's, current holdings from a win to a loss.  Even experience is no guarantee of profit.

Trading is tantamount to gambling.  There are a few winners, but probably as many, if not more, losers.  The generally held assumption is that over time, the price of Bitcoin will increase, but that's all it is.  An assumption.  There are no guarantees.  As others have mentioned, gambling with smaller amounts means the fees do hit you harder, but to deal in larger amounts means more risk of greater loss if you get it wrong.  It's not easy.  Plus, if you do constantly withdraw to fiat, you will naturally pay far more in fees.  Personally, I've never sold Bitcoin in exchange for fiat and have no plans to do so for the foreseeable future.  My goal in trading is to accumulate more Bitcoin, not fiat.  But that's my gamble and one that may not be right for you.  Play responsibly and don't gamble more than you can afford to lose.

Yes there are a lot of fees and if you thought about it, a large chunk of your capital is eaten up by fees that's why when someone intends to have transaction, a large amount would be suggested so that fees would be negligible. You can trade in exchanges like Bittrex because they have lesser fees there when you trade and then withdraw when you have a significant amount cause you have a fee again in withdrawing.

As long as you still have a profit when you withdraw and still higher than your previous capital then I'm okay with that. Others prefer to just hold their coins for a longer period of time so that in time when they withdraw, their profit would be folded many times compared to their original investment thus fees would not be that significant compared when you are withdrawing small value.

I always love reading a post from someone who got the experience to speak of and who also have the grasp of the English language in expressing the thoughts well enough. Okay, having said my appreciation, I want to give my piece of an opinion also. Right now, the world of cryptocurrency can be liken to the Wild, Wild West in the American history where laws and regulations were not yet firmly in placed so everyone can come up with his own rules to follow.

Definitely, there would be winners and losers just like any open market. And people new to this kind of set-up must learn first the rope before jumping into the fire. Though we have to understand that this is not really unique with cryptocurrency as any other investment vehicle also poses many risks. I also got into the same situation and I still have coins am waiting to get back to the value when I bought them...still hoping for some miracles I guess otherwise I may decide to just cut some loss, if necessary.

Yes, cashing out your Bitcoin comes with a lot of fees and I can't blame the exchange services which have high fees because they themselves want to profit from their business. Those who engage in trading bitcoin would sell their bitcoin once it reaches a high price then buy more once it gets lower, and those who are good at this are able to profit. If you think you're not up for that or find trading hard, do what most bitcoin users do and just simply hold your Bitcoins for long term. With the hope that its value will significantly increase in the future, you'd profit from that. A lot of bitcoin holders from the years back have already profited by simply doing this.

The fees are something one cannot do without because wanting to avoid the fees means you are never going to make the 60% profit in the first place. I want to look at this from the point of view of comparing it with other alternatives where you can keep your funds.

Looking at banks, the maximum they would give you on your savings account per annum is say 10% depending on the country though and in this small return, they would charge you withholding tax which is 10% of what they are crediting you with on a monthly basis among other charges for maintaining your account.

If you go the way of stock trading via the stock market, since you can do that on your own, you have to employ a stock broker who will charge his own fees, he will pay government tax, he will way the stock market administration some fees and you have to wait quite a number of years for the margin to be high enough to cover those expenses.

Now comparing those options to the one you can turn around within days and even better profit, I will go for bitcoin option.

I don't do a lot of transferring and trading fees are just small. People usually hold bitcoins and they don't use it to buy other things. Don't worry because I know they will find away to minimize those fees.

Agree with you, I even tried it for the purpose of comparison. Most exchange wallet has tendency of higher fee when you have a small amount to transact with like network fee. When trying for small amount it almost 50% goes to fees. But when I have tried a much bigger value I'm surprised or shocked of having low fee or just a coincidence. But for sure most exchanges have the same sets of paying mechanisms as coinbase.

trading fees are proportional to your position. not shitting on your position size, but if you had a bigger position, you would get the fees proportionately, but they would not be so much of a deal ( they are pretty much insignificant at .2-.3 percent). use a better exchange, you shold only see conversion rates like these with lbc and similar services. take the time to verify, and use your fiat to fund an exchange, not buy bitcoin p2p. the opportunity advantage of having your money parked at an exchange is the tits, and the rates are pretty much market rates, without a premium (as you are using a market ;) )

Um, I don't know how long you've been in crypto, but last year in November bitcoin was just over $700 I think.  I know this because I was writing about the price and happened to write down the date.  It doesn't matter what fees you paid when you bought it, if you'd bought any amount of bitcoin then, you would have made a shit ton of money by now--just buying and holding!

Now I get what you're saying, and it applies mostly to short-term traders.  It's actually true for traders in the stock and other markets as well.  Commissions eat up your profits, and in crypto the transaction fees do as well.  Freaking Yobit now has a withdrawal fee of 0.00015BTC, which I find to be ludicrous.  But you can make good money in crypto, and even in the short-term.  You just have to have patience and balls.

I don't know how much fees you are paying, but when I trade with kraken.com; the only fees I pay are 0.15% when I buy and sell. Withdrawal fee is something like 0.0005.
All in all, the price only needs to change 0.3% + a little to cash out with profit.

Also, I don't get where you get the 60% from. It's not like all fees combined are that high, right?

learn how to trade and you will profit
sooner or later you will,if every single newbie was able to profit trading,where would be all the losers to take money from :)
invest in knowledge,study and practice and start low
one day you will be able to profit more than you lose,and you will be losing its inevitable

Buy 1000MCO at ICO around 3$, then buy another 1000 when it drops to a dollar.
Sell when they reach 15, laugh at yourself when you see them reach 22

enjoy profits beyond fees.


And even discounting rare "miracles" like that, it's just maths. If you use bitcoin for your day-to-day neccesity money, you're in the wrong game. If you can afford to let the money be, you can make very nice profits trading and taking out small-ish ammounts every once in a while to diversift (eg. gold/silver, art, magic cards, etc)

cashing out, if you don't need to feed your family, isn't exactly a smart play.

You see the part you forgot was that you suppose to keep your Bitcoin in the exchange to they rise in value and not with draw them and then put them back. I too thought of this but I solved it myself but what I just told you. Yes there are fees but so what ? Without a trading platform you have very little to do with the coins you own anyway. Besides everyone must take their cut and we all make money we all happy.

places like coinbase and cex.io are the market price! they are two of bitcoin exchanges which are exactly at the market price. don't confuse less than $10 difference with being higher. being higher means what you find on localbitcoins.com

if it really were 60% all sorts of trading (including Forex, Stocks, Gold,... trading) would have died a long time ago.
and much of those fees you mentioned are regarding fiat. you should take that up with your government and banks and ask them why are they taking so much fee for doing so little like transferring your money from your bank to another account. or ask them why they ask so much taxes.

Holy crap you make it sound complicated. Why don't you just HODL and not worry about the dips unless you have too much fiat kicking around that you need to convert?

There are huge amount of fees in each and every process of bitcoins it is the only reason that bitcoin will be replaced by other cryptocurrencies. At this point holding is the only option and this fee structure will surely change.

I don't see how you get screwed by buying Bitcoin on exchanges, never noticed extraordinary prices on Kraken, which I constantly use. I've never used none of those you've mentioned though. Most of the times, trading in small amounts of BTC is unprofitable, sometimes, the transaction fees are way too high, which is way too noticeable on small amounts. (0.01-0.30 BTC).

If you feel like people profit largely a lot of them are just tooting their own horn, but the majority aren't actually making as much as they imply they are because it's hard to trade. Unless they bought early and have held it since.

Well you maybe correct here. But sometimes in those shitcoins which are highly speculative, people earn there largely. As an advise, stay away fom trollbox, they will hype and earn a whooping large amounts. You can see the 100+ percent in gains. But this will not last long.