Bitcoin Forum

I am not sure if your country is having a law requiring all citizens to declare Bitcoin ownership...maybe there is still no such a law yet but what if there is...would you follow that law and be open about your engagement with cryptocurrency or would you choose to just ignore thinking that anyway the government can have a hard time detecting your involvement with it?

In the next few years and as Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency in general) would be more and more popular, there would be more clashes on many pivotal issues regarding laws and regulations focused on Bitcoin. What we are witnessing this year is just an introductory phase on many things to come...so brace yourself and be prepared for the ride of your life.

Welcome to the Bitcoin generation...where all sides are on edges!

This is a tricky question. There are countries where declaration of assets is mandatory and hiding your assets is a crime. So in case the government discovers unaccounted for assets, they can infer that you got the assets through illegal means. At the least, they will nail you for making a false declaration of your assets. So if it does become necessary to declare your crypto assets, the best option would be to come clean.

Another question would be whether they ask you to declare all cryptocurrency ownership? That could be pretty cumbersome for the government as well. They might be familiar with bitcoins, but what about coins which are not even in the top 100?

I think it will be a very difficult for the governments to roll out and implement such law successfully; they cannot trace whether someone owns any coins or not due to the anonymity of the wallet holder.

Where I'm at you have to declare Bitcoin when you receive welfare benefit but that's because they're giving you free money so they shouldn't have to if you're otherwise loaded.

There's no obligation to declare ownership of anything where I'm at so I don't see why crypto would be any different. If there was then I wouldn't bother and I'd probably leave the country as it was the start of a slippery slope.

Sincerely, I would go for the second option which is waiting for how government intends to effect such pollicy a mere look at the costs of effecting the law and go after just small holders like myself would not turn out well for my government in which I am sure they are not open to commit such amount of resources needed for such at this time.

If I happen to be in a country like the United States at the time when this law might come into effect, where from news emanating from the web and movies that everything is tracked to from finances up to the point of your private lives then I would willingly submit to such law.

However, if its going to happen in this country I am now, I would probably call the law bluff because laws only works here for the first few days its being enacted other than that, its not potent any longer and I am sure the law would be implemented only to make a statement without the forces to eventually effect the provisions of such law.

Well, usually the fiscal authorities want you to declare gains from bitcoin but not the ownership of the bitcoin itself.

I will never come to a point where I as an empty headed chicken declare my holdings to the government. It's not for nothing that I am in Bitcoin ~ I like how Bitcoin allows me to cut all ties with governments and banks.

If exchanges at some point need to abide by certain regulations that makes them report all user funds to their respective governments, I would immediately stop using that exchange, and focus on P2P trading.

I am definitely afraid that this day is coming closer and closer. Governments thrive on control, and this is somewhat of a logical step to take for them considering that people themselves won't likely declare their holdings.

http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/
there is no taint or title in bitcoin

Nothing really going on in the US tbh. Well, unless you cash out. But even then it would be weird to put a title on Bitcoin as if it were a car or house...

I hope the day never comes where I have to declare everything....

The question of whether Bitcoin is tainted is different from whether Bitcoin is unaccounted for. The government may be hard pressed to prove that you got your money through illegal means, but they may still be able to nail you for tax evasion. One famous example is the drug lord Al Capone. The Feds couldn't nail him on drug trafficking charges, but they were able to show that he didn't pay taxes.

Didn't read the part about title? ???

If this thing would happen declaring would depend on the person if his willing or not because anytime we can really hide ourselves on those regulations.Without the need on declaring your holdings but on some people if the law imposing a high punishment on this thing then most people will really be afraid and might really declare on what would they hold but for those who are confident enough that no one can trace them would really remain in the shadows without being detected.

There's no such law in the EU, but if there was I'd outright ignore it. What's the difference between them wanting me to declare my BTC and them wanting to read my emails, know what i'm eating for lunch and what arouses me in bed?
I was asked once by a friend what I'd do if I had any superpowers and my answer was: hide. If you share anything with the government they'll find a way to fuck you in the ass. If you had any powers and let them know the next day you'd find yourself locked up, or worse, on an operating table.

I don't think that such a law will ever come in to existence. It can be a breach of individual privacy and citizens can challenge it in the courts. There are multiple risk factors associated with such a law. For example, if the hackers identify the big holders, they can launch spear-phishing and other tactics to steal the coins. Also, the organized crime syndicates and mafia groups can target these top holders, through kidnapping for ransom or other criminal activities.

on the other hand, it is common for a government to have citizens report large stores of wealth, for the sake of national security. this is the essence of AML/KYc law; individual privacy (as it often does) loses out to the selective security. we cant have terrorists funding massive terror campaigns right under our noses just because we turned a willing blind eye; and the same hand, not scrutinizing in this way could facilitate pornographers and criminals, undermining the rule of law. im all for personal freedoms and protections, but when it comes to money, it always gets much better with transparency. ;)

Is it necessary?, a question that is debatable and needs more clarification before any move on doing this move. If it happens and I have huge amount of bitcoin in me, I will declare it to government but in a contract/law that this property once being stolen will be refunded by government. I don't think most of bictoin users will follow this kind of policy. We all know that government official will only care for profits than service. It will be hard for us to get those papers on holding bitcoin.

Its very tricky and debatable indeed. If government will try to go and have us declare our bitcoin then we lost everything that what has been started, decentralized and pseudo- anonymous. I'm not saying its a hidden wealth or something that is dirty that's why we are all hiding it from the prying eyes of the government agencies, but bitcoin has something to do with us being our banks, without the reach of the banking system. I don't know, maybe I haven't look at it really so maybe when the time comes we can all debate about it in depth.

Well, this is against the essentials of bitcoin. Bitcoin is built on decentralized freedom architecture. So declaring what you have as crypto currency would be so absurd to its own manifesto and it wouldn't work.

Those "Corrupt officials" is the problem, they were manipulated by greedy banking officials who only want to monopolize the entire financial system that a country could have. I don't think this is a hidden wealth when they don't even recognizing it. It is absurb to just trust the government except for the clean one Japan example. But in other government are full of fake public servants.

law to declare bitcoin ownership? oh hey, sorry gov't, i lost it all in a boating accident, all gone now

in my country there is no regulation at all about the law that regulates bitcoin but my country does not forbid to use bitcoin, even in my country there is a bitcoin law rule I will obey the rules in my country because I live in a country that has a law laws and regulations.

why we need law to declare bitcoin ownership? do you want to reveal to other people how much bitcoin you have in your wallet? i don't think that is a good idea because the essence of bitcoin is freedom for every people as far i know. but if it for just controlling bitcoin which on the market, then its should not be a good idea too. i think it is up to them will decide they want to declare or not, because i think it is our privacy,  for us and only us that will know how much our bitcoin.

I'm sure this will happen someday in several countries.
In many countries already, citizens must declare foreign bank accounts, so you may see BTC wallets as something quite similar.

In order to force citizens to declare their stocks of the bitcoin government needs to accept its currency. Then the question will be a formal exchange and turnover. Governments are afraid of it as fire so do not hurry with the recognition. They are fully willing to endure the losses from the shortfall in taxes, but would not accept bitcoins.

If in my country the government will passed a law about cryptocurrency and declarations of income, earnings or holding bitcoin. I will abide by it, for we must be a law abiding citizen and I think that is for our own good and for our countries economic development. But i hope it will only covered members who having huge amount of bitcoin in they're wallet. Example: 5 btc and up. And should have fair tax value for the users to breath from high transactions fees.

I think at the end of the day you will just have to go for declaring ownership. Reason is that as of now the use of bitcoin is limited so if you want to use it properly in your daily transactions you have no way than declaring it.

I think its very easy for any government to make a law in order to declare the ownership of the bitcoins. But question remains regarding the success of such law, as why people will declare the ownership when people can hold the coins anonymously

Declaring bitcoin income will largely dependent on how they want it. In my country, we are far from reaching that point and I am not sure we will get there soon but if we get there, the modalities of how to go about it will be set out and personally I won't have any problem with it because it then will mean they are giving recognition to bitcoin which will then makes it more popular for everyone to use. I am a law abiding citizen and would want it to stay that way.

If this were the case, then I would opt to just declare my assets. After all, this kind of law would be imposed for national security and AML purposes. As of now, most jurisdictions do not specify on particular cases such as this but surely after some diversification, there would be some rulings and regulations imposed. In such an event, I'd rather go through the hassle of declaring all my assets than having to hide it in the fear of getting your BTC taken away from you or having it declared as illegal.

It may be likely for a law like this to be created, especially with the increasing use and popularity of Bitcoin.

This is no different than two questions that have already been asked of "our" people.  To declare all guns that are owned and to declare all Gold that is owned.  Legal to own, but it easily allows the Gov to come and take them whenever they decide to.  BTC would be no different.  They know about half of my guns and nothing about Gold.  They do not and likely never will know about my BTC unless I cashout over some legal amount (probably 5K - 10K) that would become law.  I would try for multiple smaller transactions over one transaction if possible.

You are mistaken. Everyone who uses their Bank card to exchange bitcoins can be easily tracked. Unfortunately, most users are forced to use such operations in order to buy something with bitcoin. At the moment, the anonymity of bitcoin is only a dream.

You raise a good point, but this is not entirely true. One method is to use Bitcoin ATMs -- most require no KYC information, and one can cover their face and identifying features while in front of the ATM.

Another method is LocalBitcoins. This is getting harder and harder, as authorities are increasingly pressuring larger traders to enforce KYC procedures. But smaller/casual traders generally don't, so it's possible to acquire BTC in those cases without giving up any personal identifying information.

This is such an odd question because the purpose and beauty of decentralized currency is meant to be exactly that. Don't know why people would want bitcoin ownership.

I think it will be really difficult for the government to implement such law in reality. It will be difficult to trace the transactions and to identify the defaulters, as the identity of the user will be anonymous until they reveal it by their self.

You are talking as if the EU had the same laws in all countries and one tax agency to enforce those laws. Nothing further from the truth. There are different tax laws for each country, but what’s more: in my one there are differences as to if you need to declare them in different regions.

So, if my total net worth (wealth) was higher than 600.000 euros, I would be legally obliged to declare bitcoin. What I would do in such a case, I don’t know.

I think Govt. can impose such law as central authorities are quite insecure with the incremental use of bitcoin as a payment mode. People are adopting BITCOIN in order to secure their privacy, saving taxes and transaction charges etc, so imposing such law is contradictory with the concept of bitcoin. I think we should prepare ourselves and plan according to face such situation in near future.

Bitcoin is not legal or ban in our country but if this law will impose by our government then i will abide the law because it just applying a business permit of a certain business. If we will not obey the law we may face the consequences and the government may forbid us of using the bitcoin in which is the most difficult situation because we will miss the chance of earning both bitcoin and altcoin.

as crypto currency philosophy is based on anonymity I don'T think that any law or regulation work easily.

I do not think governments will oblige citizens to declare absolutely all assets in digital currency. Perhaps this will be mandatory beyond any fixed amount. However, the state can not clearly control the fulfillment of this obligation by citizens, and therefore it will depend on the citizens themselves to indicate the digital currency in their declarations or not.

I don't know what will be the debate about this but by definition Bitcoin can be classified as a movable property or a personal property. Yes even though it exist virtually it still has a value which is actually bigger than any kind of fiat currency. Under being a movable property it can be classified as an "intangible" property where like what I said earlier cannot be touch but is still has value. From stocks to mutual funds all of them cannot be seen physically but all of them has value.

I'll declare just a small portion of my own because declaring it all could be a risk for my life and my family. I know that even politicians hide their total wealth and assets to their citizens so I will apply it to myself as well.

For me, if that will be a law and policy of the government i will abide by the rules and regulations specially if the purpose is for the welfare benefits of the people because this is the same policy for fiat in which we are obliged to declare our daily and monthly income as basis for the tax. I think this declaring bitcoin ownership will be included in the regulations set by the nations who plans to adopt bitcoin after a series of regulating. I support this moved because it is hard to face the consequences if you will not comply with the law.

If you are in a country where Bitcoin is declared illegal than you are in a tight situation because you cannot attach yourself as the owner of an illegal currency, by doing so you are identifying yourself as a lawbreaker. But for a country where there are no laws regarding Bitcoin you can protect your Bitcoin by declaring it as one of your intangible assets because it is one, anyone who try to steal Bitcoin will be penalized by your country's law.

The Bitcoin revolution is fast reaching the nooks and crannies of many countries all over the world, what with the use of the modern gadgets and the internet. Sooner or later, financial authorities have to come up with the necessary framework with which cryptocurrency can work with.

I think no country has declared possession of bitcoin as illegal and if there is it will be hard for that country to identify their citizen who owns a coin, especially crypto currency has an anonymity.

And once a country had a law that requires their citizen to declare their coins it will remove the characteristic of bitcoin being decentralized.

This is epic. Well yes, since Bitcoins are decentralized, and various jurisdictions have not yet made a completely new law to regulate it in terms of proliferation and taxing, people who deal with Bitcoins will be subjected to a piece-meal regulation. It means that when they see something wrong with it, they will regulate that wrong then go on again. And when they see another that is wrong, they will regulate that wrong then go on again. I think they have to provide specific measures as soon as possible so that the people who invest in Bitcoins will not be subject to their whims and caprices at any given time.

Yes it is really in contrast of bitcoin being decentralized, but since we are living on a world where governments handles the nation then laws and regulations will soon be implemented fir bitcoin. I just wonder if what will happen by that time when most of the countries passed a law on regulating crypto currency it may be a postive or negative effect when it comes to bitcoin prices.

The state must detail all the duties of citizens and bring them to the attention of the public. Without this responsibility does not exist. This refers to the declaration of the availability of assets in the crypto currency. Usually, your profit from financial transactions with the crypto currency is taxable, and not the assets that lie without movement

some countrys dont even recognize bitcoin as an real currency therefore it is only taxable when exchanged into FIAT currencies

can't declare bitcoin ownership due to the decentralised nature of it
you cannot "own" bitcoins
you can "own" the rights to use it,which is,technically,different
I can give an example of Webmoney system they use in CIS countries,Russia,Ukraine,Belorussia etc.
the money you have are debt IOUs,payable on demand,backed by an insurer
so one doesn't operate with notes or money there,which allows Webmoney to avoid many a legal suit and troubles
maybe there is something of sorts that can be introduced to garantee you can transfer rights for your coins to a third party legally

Yeah it’s just like fiat money you just using the banknote that guaranteed by the government,BTC also when you use BTC your just given the rights that guaranteed by BTC. in terms of law that declares ownership I think it should be and international law because we all know that this currency is decentralized in nature and has no boundary and anonymous the only proof of ownership rights is the unique code that you possess, maybe this one of the security features that must be under study for further development.

I advise you to do everething according to the law and you there will be no problems

WebMoney is fully controlled by the state. In order to use this system you must provide your passport details. If you sent money by mistake to another person then you no one will return. Exchange rate and wire transfer is very low. These funds would be sufficient to pay the tax. But from the point of view of convenience this system is very good.

Well, there's no such law that requires people to declare their bitcoin ownership. But by regulating exchanges. You need to comply to government wants. And that's the giving your identity. In that way, I think you already declared your bitcoin ownership. But still that depends in your country's law. There are countries that are required to declare their assets to the government. That is to prevent corruption in their nation. But i think this is applicable only to those people who are working in the government. Anyway, the possibility still exist. We have no power to oppose government's will If they require us to declare our bitcoin ownership..

Why do you think so? You forget that the power always belongs to the people. The government is only the interim Manager. If we don't want to pay taxes then we are not going to do. Perhaps it will have to change bitcoin to Fiat in another country and then withdraw, you may have to withdraw to Bank account in small portions. Who seeks will always find a way.

no,Webmoney has zero to none connection to the state,especially since it is operating internationally
which state you think it is connected with?
yes they do require your passport photocopy along with a phone number and some other things
but doesn't almost any exchange require KYC if you want to withdraw to fiat?
but you can use WM system without providing papers,you will not be able to withdraw money to your card but can pay online and send money no problem
in any case,if there is a company that is able to organise something similar in regards to bitcoins (for example in Japan,where bitcoin is a legal tender) would be great

Well this is quite alarming given that Bitcoin has been made or invented in order to have free transactions. And by free transactions I mean transactions that are not traceable and not attached to any personal information. If Bitcoin ownership will exist and no longer through addresses, than the whole Bitcoin idea in the first place was already gone. Next thing we know it may be regulated by a government too.

The bitcoin ownership law in my country is still in gray legality.
Although the government has made laws stating that bitcoin and other virtual currencies are not legitimate currency or payment instruments in Indonesia.
But the government does not enact rules that specifically prohibit the use of bitcoin, which means bitcoin users can still transact freely with virtual currency, it's just that there is no legal protection when there is theft or cheating involving virtual currency.

I think that it is unfair to demand protection from the state of their accounts with bitcoin. Bitcoin was conceived as independent of the state currency. Independent!!! You made the decision that do not pay taxes and the state you are not interested. Why then the state should do to help you? Protect your coins by yourself. I think it is quite logical.

I dont think its possible,coz your talking only about bitcoin,what about those ither coins?and as far as i know thats why the wallet in which the coins were sending is has a policy i which the privacy will remain private for sake of both parties,even if government interfere in the wallet,yet they cant just seek it without proper forum.

Bitcoin was never intended to be untraceable. This is one of the reasons blockchain transactions are accessible by everyone. As for the personal information, you are buying your coins from someone, right? To get them you have to pay with fiat, either for the coin or for the hardware to mine, or for a mining contract if someone mines it for you. Bottom line if you're buying it with fiat you're leaving a trace.

In my opinion ,trading isn't about predicting what happens next.It's about having a system with an edge.

Protection isnt really needed since you can able to protect your own coin by just storing up with you own wallet with secured private keys.They do only like to make money on that case and this is why bitcoin is really good when it comes into hiding your assets or funds because no one would really know that you are holding it up and declaring your holding would really be just like for them to force you to declare but they cant really do nothing if you wont disclose your holdings and decide to shut up your mouth. They wont really know and thats how good it is on bitcoin.

We can consider bitcoin as our own possession or assets. But the government in our country has no ordinance to prove or to give title that you really own that bitcoin because they have no control on it. They could only trace but they could not govern it.
You are responsible of protecting you own bitcoin and if someone steal your bitcoin you cannot impose a law to accuse him.

In order to stabilize the value of bitcoins, transaction movements will have to be massive compared to total value of the bitcoins, and the top bitcoin owners will need to slowly sell off some of their bitcoins so the distribution is less skewed.