Bitcoin Forum

Ok what is enough is enough. There is a FUD gang active in the AMP/Synereo community (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995987.0) that is constantly spreading lies, FUD, some of them are spreading outright libelous lies and is trying to totally discredit and defame the Synereo project, the rest are obvious shameless trolls which is against the forum rules anyway.

The suspects are:
donnatello (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=922713)
DefendKebab (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=411249)
Diego24 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=890219)
cchub (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=938950)
ooom (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=930525)
scamalert0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=935547)
LiuYaoMaster (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=952380)

1) I believe that these accounts are either operated by the same person trying to defame the project or they are somehow affiliated in their nefarious activities. I don't have sufficient evidence to prove this, however if somebody could run some kind of script to analyze the login or posting patterns of these guys you will find interesting things for example:
* DefendKebab for the last 10 pages or so of his posting activity, he only posts in the AMP thread, and he always posts trollish FUD things, always posting there and nowhere else, he comes online like once a week or once in 2 weeks sometimes taking a hiatus between posting and when he comes back, you guessed it, another FUD post
* Looks like ooom and scamalert0 were "deactivated", but they posted FUD together with cchub in the past, who is still active to this day in his FUD campaign
* donnatello seems to be a new addition to the team I haven't seen him posting in the past but he really fired up his FUD activity in the past week that is for sure
* Diego24 posts there almost every day, like he doesn't have anything better to do than FUD all day long, he seems to be in good "friendship" with donnatello


2) They all broke the forum rules, they are trolling there, spreading lies, they are insulting me and others, and they are trying to spread irrational fear there even in the face of good news coming out from the project, it seems like their only objective there is to create panic.

Just to give you an idea what they are doing (you find far worse posts in their post history):

http://i63.tinypic.com/2rbza4l.png

This is not a scam of any kind. Move your thread to the Reputation section. There's an option to do this in the lower left corner of your screen (while viewing this thread).

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You can try finding proof that these accounts are owned by the same person/people. That would help your case.

Well it's kind of a scam, because they have already caused a lot of damage to the community. And who knows maybe they are allegedly trading the FUD that they are creating on exchanges, again I have no evidence for this, but in my experience I have seen many pump & dump scammers behave similarly, they create fake accounts to manipulate the price.

I am not technologically sophisticated enough to do this kind of research, and it's really not my job.

I am a concerned investor in the AMP token who already took a lot of damage due to these scumbags, but unfortunately it's not my job to pursue this matter.

I have just exposed these scumbags, I'll leave the community to decide the next steps.

No, that's not how this works. I can't take you seriously if you truly think that "spreading FUD = scamming".

Wouldn't surprise me if it were people from another token which also *took damage*.

You didn't expose anything other than random users writing random stuff about a random token.

How so, whenever the FUD campaign heated up the price went down massively. I lost money in the crash, and these trolls were partly responsible for creating the toxic envionment that scared traders.

Defamation does cause financial loss that is why there are laws against it, from a technical standpoint it's similar to theft or fraud.

However I am not affiliated with the AMP team nor the project so it's not my call.

I am just a concerned AMP token investor, and from my point of view I lost money partly due to the FUD. So I am a victim.

So you're telling me I should sue pretty much any fool or news outlet that spread FUD about Bitcoin / crashed the price due to this FUD?

::)

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You don't seem familiar with the current condition of this forum.

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Update: Added missing verb.

I confirm the words of profitgenerator212, I have been following this topic for a long time, I am an investor of AMP

That is definitely sufficient proof that there has been an organized attack by a malicious group of people. /s

I'm honored , but there is no thing like a 'AMP fud gang'  Most damage ( 99 percent ) is done by founder Dor Konforty you should blame him.

I agree with you, ProfitGenerator, these trolls have been at it consistently for over a year now and it's bad for the new people looking at the thread. I hold AMP myself, been holding for over a year, so I understand why you're frustrated. My thoughts are - if they can't troll the thread, they'll come for the Slack and we already have trolls there (not as many but still). They can always do it somewhere else and I'd say, take the opportunity to buy up more cheap AMPs if they are causing the price to tank.

Can you stop getting random AMP investors to post random confirmations here? It isn't helping.

Care to elaborate on the latter?

You left 1 word out, I dont know what you are trying to say here.


What happened is basically last December there was a fiasco between i believe the founder an the CTO and the CTO left the team.

Since then the trolls have been attacking the founder day and night, calling him a scammer, and other derogatory terms, which by themselves are worthy of a ban in my opinion. But they dont even have any evidence whatsoever, they just basically write there any shameless insult they can think of.

They have overblown that situation, very unproportionately.

Since then of course the project was revived, everything is fine now, they have put out an app with regular updates and news, and they are working hard on it, following the roadmap that they since put put. So the project is better than ever, there is good development behind the scenes.

Of course the trolls are ignoring that, they are just focusing on character attacks and spreading lies to manipulate the price.

You have 4 posts lol.

You are both frustrated because now you are losing money. AMP collapses wrt to BTC and BTC wrt to fiat. And I even told you to sell at 20k. But no ... profitgenerator was sure it was going to be the last time to buy cheap AMP. And now I am the troll  ::)

And as you already showed before, your belief is very valuable. Do you remember that when AMP was at 20k you believed it was the last time to buy cheap AMP ? Do you remember all these times that you believed AMP would go x100 when WildSpark would be launched ? I don't think people need more proof that your intuition is worthless. I think your credibility is 0 already. And the fact that you lied about 150.000 % ROI doesn't help the case either.

Please do so. It will only reveal that Donatello was right ... you are a crap generator. I am starting to feel sorry for you. It is obvious that these people you mentioned are different posters. Their language is completely different and some (like myself) were here before the ICO crash ... so by logic your theory that we are all the same person is extremely unlikely and your low level of intuition will be exposed again.

Seriously, the more you post, the more of a fool you make of yourself.

 

Holy crap. Are you serious ? Are you really blaming me for your loss ? You have to be shameless to make such a claim. I told you to sell at 20 k. If you would have listened to me you would have had 500 % profit. You lost money because you are a stubbern guy that thinks he knows it better. You lost money because you are blind to reality. You buy a coin and then you think that hope is all you need to become rich. The world doesn't work like that. I exactly told you what is happening to this coin yesterday. But instead of assimilating what I told you, you call it FUD and then make a thread in which you cry with all the rest that you lost money.

And if you didn't get it yet ... crypto is in a general crash. I have nothing to do with that crash. I lost a lot of my gains too due to this crash. Go blame the Chinese government for this. I am not responsible for the Bitcoin exchange ban.

My trading opinions have nothing to do with this. Or are you saying that I am not allowed to share my opinions here? Denying freedom of speech?


Yes those are my beliefs, and I have said that they are my opinions.

You post everything as a fact, of course with no evidence, like for example calling me a scammer while providin no evidence:


I have explained alraedy to you the situation with the 150000% ROI. It is real, it's just that you are incapable of making a difference between the ROI of a portfolio and the cumulative ROI of trading positions (which could be a portfolio by itself).

So yes in that example it was totally possible to turn 1$ into 150,000$ (ignoring fees and friction of course).

But I don't think anyone would risk that with 1000$ to turn it into 1.5m, since you have to risk 100% of the portfolio always. Which nobody sane does.

That is why good investors risk like 3-4% of their portfolio on a position, hence I only make 500% ROI instead of 150,000%, which at this moment is around 150%, I am still up baby :D



Again more insults, you are incapable of a constructive post.

I didn't said that.

What I said is that the trolls are scaring investors away. Obviously traders on Poloniex do take these kinds of FUD campaigns into consideration, and they usually take this as a bearish sign.

Whenever there is a conflict, an artificial troll-induced conflict, in a community, that is a bearish sign usually.

So trolling in a thread does make the price go down eventually.

If you guys would stop trolling and the community would start to concentrate itself on the project and not on character attacks and infighting, then we would have much more success in my opinion.

No you can't do that because Bitcoin doesn't have a legal personality thus, people can say anthing they want against Bitcoin.


Here on the other hand they are calling Synereo which I believe is "Synereo Inc.", which is a registered business with a legal personality, some of the trolls are calling them a scam, while providing no evidence. I believe this can be interpreted as defamation.

Of course there is also criminal defamation where people spreading lies to destroy some entity's reputation or causing financial loss through lies might even be a crime not tort in some jurisdictions.


Where I live for example you can get fined up to 2000 EUR I believe for spreading intentional malicious lies about somebody with the sole intent to just to cause harm to them.

It sucks from a free speech standpoint, but it does keep trolls at a bay.

And how does this freedom of speech work than ? You are the only one entitled to have this right ? You asked several times to the creator of the previous threat to shut me down. By the way, I never said anything about shutting you up. You are calling me a troll while you are the one that said at every dip this was the last time to buy cheap AMP. With this example I don't want to say you should shut up. I want to say that you are the troll because you clearly didn't know what you were talking about.

Nonsense. I only post facts. I don't talk in term of 'beliefs'. Yes, you are a scammer. I posted the facts ... you were claiming here and on steemit that your ROI was 150.000 %. Many of the posters got sucked into this lie. They started to follow you, upvote you, and threw their money in AMP. To me that is a big scam. You made Steem out of this scam. And you tried to pump the AMP price with this 150.000 % ROI lie. In fact, I have been for almost 2 years in many threads on bitcointalk and reddit and I have never encountered a scammer of your level.

Yesterday you said you were on 100 %, in the beginning of this thread you said you were losing, now you suddenly have 150 %. Seriously man, your credibility is below freezing point. Then you get angry people call you a scammer.

I can't believe you really think some posts in a bitcointalk thread would cause a coin to be dumped. Every coin has people really talking shit about them. Even big coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum have tons of people talking crap about them. But that doesn't seem to affect the price. The people making coins go up are usual whales. And they have better strategies to trade than to listen to some keyboard jockies on bitcointalk.

AMP is going down because it was just going up because of a speculative pump. As long as they don't have a fully working product that makes people want to buy AMP, it is hard to not avoid these speculative pumps and dumps. AMP is not a coin that you buy to get rich tomorrow. If you are in AMP you will have to hold for a very long time. And I never said the project was shit and that AMP would never make anyone rich. It can happen. But at the same time I was also stating facts that it is not good that the team only delivered a browser extention in 4 years and that they admitted they are going to sell their founder AMP. I am not obliged to only talk about the beauty of the project. If there are things that are not good, I am entitled to speak out about it. Or do you think it is wonderful that Synereo revealed they want to sell their founder AMP now ? I think this is much more harmful for the AMP price than the posts I make here.

Yes you are entitled to free speech but not if you start posting lies, and trolling which is against the forum rules. You have been trolling there for at least 1 month that I remember.

That is not a honest way to excercize your freedom of speech.


Again more lies, character attacks,etc...

You said you are an engineer, but you have  a really  hard time understanding the math of percentages and compounded interest here. You should take a basic algebra lesson and then come back to me, I am explaining this to for for like the 5th time now, I refuse to explain it again.


Well I am not going to reveal the exact % point of my portfolio, I was saying a rough estimate.

But actually I made good profits with the latest ETH crash which I have predicted 10 days ago and wrote about it 8 days ago:
* https://steemit.com/money/@profitgenerator/what-to-do-in-a-price-crash


Yes I do. Where the hell do you think the Poloniex day traders get their info from?

There is the Slack chat which is also filled with trolls, and there is the Bitcointalk thread. These are the 2 biggest information hubs for this community.

I can easily see Poloniex traders reading every post here.

@Diego24 please stop making several consecutive posts as you're breaking the forum rules. See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0.

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Are you kidding me? You really though that was an actual question from me? Sigh.

Your point being? Take this up to the courts then. I'm not going to play a lawyer with negative ratings.

It's not my job, I am not affiliated with the organization, I am just an AMP token holder. Now I don't know the status of AMP whether it's like a property of the company or public in nature like BTC. I have no idea I am not a lawyer.


Yes that was a question, since it had a question mark at the end.

Other than being an illegal security, it has no basis for suing anyone. You can trash talk AMP all day long if you want to. If you think someone is intentionally trolling then you should take that up with the moderators.

It does not seem that you've got proper education. Here, I'll help you improve: Not a question that needs answering. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question)

So your definition of free speech is: if you don't say what I want to hear than you should shut up ? Dude, even other posters said that you were incorrect by labeling me a troll. If you still call me a troll than you are the one that isn't liking free speech. You are the dictator here, not me. I never asked anyone to shut you up despite the insane stupidities that you have posted.

Well, if you claim these things are lies, then you are lying once again. I don't need algebra lessons from you, sir. I had almost maximum on algebra while almost all my other classmates failed the exam. That's why I don't even bother to come back to this point. You are full of nonsense with your ROI 150.000 %. The fact that you removed it from your signature says enough.

That still doesn't change the fact that your story is very inconsistent. From loss to 150% gain in a few hours. That's more gains than you made in a year  :D.


Clueless.

Are you a lawyer, can you say that for sure? Because the laws around cryptos are very vague.

It's funny how everyone thinks about any coins that it's somehow an "illegal security", like a guy I have talked with said the same thing about Steem. Others are claiming that about Dash too... It's really funny.

Most people don't know the law, they have no idea how things are defined, so until an official ruling comes from the security regulator, on every single coin, you can't say things like these for certain.

In my opinion it's not a security, it's a crypto token that powers an app, the same way that Bitcoin or any other coin would any other app.


Shifting the burden of proof, changin the subject, argument from majority, etc...

You are very talented in dishonest arguing.


I have explained it to you like 5 times, you asked the same question, in fact you posted it as a fact, and I replied the same thing over and over again. I am tired of explaining this to you.

Oh so now the fact that I am changing my signatures is some kind of proof to anything ? :D


What loss are you talking about?

I sad I lost in regards to AMP, so my AMP position is in minus.

But my overall portfolio is still up. Can't you comprehend that?

Not really. Several people have already pointed you out that I am not a troll. There is only 1 real troll and that is you, something that was also pointed out by other posters. Besides of course of being a liar, a dictator. Imagine how important you think you are: You make a separate thread to expose people whose comments you don't like. You claim that anyone listening to you will become rich. LOL. Who the hell do you think you are ? If at least you could back something up than I could understand. But the amount of dumb and retarded things you have posted is enough for you to have an entry in the Guiness record book.

You feel insulted by my posts ? Well, good. You are the one that started calling people trolls and scumbags while being one yourself.

I don't need any more explanation. I already understood what you meant. Still, your ROI was BS. I already explained many times why. I will not waste any more time in discussing this. I make it short and clear: you are a scammer. 

No I can't comprehend that. It is too difficult for me to understand this  ::).

You don't need to be lawyer. You can: 1) Consult your own lawyer. 2) Read the laws, do research and make a reasonable conclusion. If you can't sue people for "FUD-ing" Bitcoin, then you can't sue them for "FUD-ing" AMP.

No. I don't recall whether Steem was an ICO or not, but DASH was not (although this coin is arguably a scam by Evan, but that's a different debate). If you're running an ICO on mETH for a token, and you've not registered this sale, then it's an illegal security.

The law does not care about your opinion though.

This claim of his shows how nuts he is. I have never seen a guy that is so much full of shit as he is. He talks like a 5 year old.

Yes but have you done that or are you just claiming things without evidence? And keep in mind that there are different jurisdictions here.

And also your reasoning is not good. Some currencies are also trademarks, intellectual property, or such, so different laws apply to those.

Bitcoin is unique in this respect it's mostly public domain, public good, but that may not apply to others.

So if you haven't analyzed the law, for a specific event in a specific jurisdiction, then maybe you should not make claims like that.


I see, I think you are a Bitcoin fanboy aren't you? Basically every other altcoin for you is shady isn't it?

I have experienced a lot this kind of mentality in the Bitcoin world, kind of resembles an echochamber. But the truth is that the other altcoins have just as much right to exist as BTC. This includes BCH as well.

Now don't tell me BCH is illegal too? That would be just hilarous  :D


Yes but I still have the right to say my opinion about this specific instance, however you have claimed these things to be facts, I don't recall you specifically saying that these are just your opinions.

You sound like you state things as if they were facts, which would be dishonest, until not proven, they are also just your opinions.

Based on his responses I've decided to dismiss this case / will not be willing to pursue it anymore. The more this thread develops, the more I'm convinced that this is just due to the failed investment and that there's nothing going on, other than the standard "FUD" that happens to pretty much any coin.

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There are much broader issues of the opposite of a "FUD gang", which is a "shill gang". People who are shilling scams like DASH et. al. should be the ones to get neg. rated. However, this forum has so many flawed policies that going vs. that gang of scammers (or similar) is not possible for a small group of people let alone 1 cat. All this behavior is BTCT administration approved^TM.

Don't take my word for it, look into it yourself, I don't have enough time to post here all the posts that these trolls were doing, but it can clearly be found in their post history.

I am not a moderator, you guys are. In fact I have contacted mprep as well, but he also said that I should compile a list of the FUD posts that they were doing because he doesnt have time.

Well it not my job either, I just raised this issue, if anyone wants to investigate this, have at it, but I don't have time for this either. I have wasted plenty of times and nerves arguing with these trolls already.


I don't understand why are you guys against or pro something, why can't this be objectively viewn?

How can this debate be taken seriously if you have already a preconcieved view on DASH already for example, and you already think that AMP is shady too without even looking into it. Or things like BCH.

Shouldn't you supposed to be objective and evidence based as a moderator when handling a dispute?

Again, even if the trolls were banned from the forum, they could always make another account or go to the Slack. You can't win this one.

Why should I? This case seems very uninteresting, just like the token that it is related to. Cases where negative ratings are justified are all pretty much *pro bono*. You're not required to pursue any if you do not want to.

I'm not sure what makes you think that I'm a moderator. :D

The latter does not surprise me.

This is an objective assessment. If someone truly truly thinks DASH is not a scam, then they're one (or multiple) of the following: 1) A DASH holder. 2) Pathetically ignorant. 3) Mentally demented. Although, I may have missed a reason or two.

Both are objective; DASH and BCH are scams. Not that this is a matter that belongs in this thread.

Everything is fine as long as the price does not crash. ::)

Oh no, I'm fine haha. Plenty of coins had the same amount of FUD and still did well. The price is going down because some whale pumped it for a few months and then began dumping it a couple months ago. I think PG should ignore Diego and whoever else he had on his list and move on.

I didn't said it should be you, but somebody.

I saw you as a moderator in another thread, I am not sure how the moderation works here.



Alright I am not going to push this, I did my job of exposing the trolls, the rest should be up to somebody else. Yeah they will probably create  new account to FUD if they were to get banned, so I guess we just have to live with the trolls.

I'll try not feeding them, and completely ignore their nonsense.