Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Gambling => Topic started by: Stunna on September 15, 2017, 06:00:31 AM



Title: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on September 15, 2017, 06:00:31 AM
Announcing the Crypto Gambling Foundation (http://cryptogambling.org)

The Crypto Gaming Foundation is going to be setting a standard for transparency and fairness in our gaming community. Online casinos are amongst the least trusted businesses in the world with only 34% (http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/PDF/survey-data/Gambling-participation-in-2016-behaviour-awareness-and-attitudes.pdf) of people believing that online gambling is fair and can be trusted.

Personally, I remember when this community was much smaller and websites with poor fairness and dishonest practices were shunned. It worries me that crypto gambling is becoming more and more similar to real money gambling with some of the top crypto casinos regularly taking advantage of players with abusive practices.

Because of this I am happy to join and help this group encourage fair gambling in this space. Check it out, browse our articles and join the forum. Membership is of course free.  

Main Site: http://cryptogambling.org      Forum: http://forum.cryptogambling.org/


https://image.ibb.co/kwH4m5/Artboard_140.png (http://cryptogambling.org)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on September 15, 2017, 06:02:39 AM
Happy to be founding member of the foundation - PM me if you wish to join as an individual, operator or website! Membership is free for anyone with the outlying guidelines followed correctly.

The Askgamblers of Bitcoin Gambling.

Current Members

www.Bustabit.com - Social Bitcoin gambling game.
 - 100% provably fair
 - Long time trusted owner
 - Large bank roll

www.Bitdice.com - Bitcoin dicing
 - 100% provably fair
 - Games other than dice are NOT provably fair
 - Investment option - Large bank roll

www.Stake.com - The Bitcoin Casino
 - 100% provably fair
 - Custom made Bitcoin favourites
 - Large bank roll - Long time trusted owners

www.Primedice.com - The creators of Dicing
 - 100% provably fair
 - Longest standing dice site
 - Largest bankroll  - Trusted owners

www.bustadice.com - New & Amazing Dicing
 - 100% provably fair
 - New & fun way to dice
 - Large bank roll - Investment option

www.Betking.com - Dicing done right
 - 100% Provably fair
 - 2nd oldest dice site
 - Large bank roll - Investment option - Very trusted owner

www.nitrogensports.com - The largest Bitcoin sportsbook
 - 100% provably fair
 - Games other than dice & sports are NOT provably fair
 - Trusted owners


Message me to join. Must be very reputable & meet all qualifications. This is only for the best Bitcoin gambling websites. If you see the Crypto Gambling Foundation logo you know you're safe.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: InfiniteQuant on September 15, 2017, 06:07:20 AM
Nice initiative, I personally support TrueFlip Lottery who claim to be an International anonymous blockchain lottery with instant payouts, open source code, fair draw process and transparent prize fund. You should probably contact them since they aim into being "Fair", it's pretty easy to contact their team on Telegram https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAELcwT-fgH2zG7xEng

Disclosure: I hold TFL Token bought during ICO.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: niall51 on September 15, 2017, 06:08:22 AM
Could we know, what's kind forums will be present? That's would be talking about whole of casino to disscuss? or something different than "Section Gambling" this forums?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: mambomaster on September 15, 2017, 06:09:36 AM
Finally there is a independed organisation that will help, the provably fair term to the next level.
Setting a standard for transparency and fairness in online cryptogambling is a good thing so online casino's can conform themselves to it,
as a result of that they will be considered as trustfull and fair.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on September 15, 2017, 06:20:31 AM
Could we know, what's kind forums will be present? That's would be talking about whole of casino to disscuss? or something different than "Section Gambling" this forums?

Please check here: CGF Forum (http://forum.cryptogambling.org) . Open to suggestions, let me know what you'd like to see.



Nice initiative, I personally support TrueFlip Lottery who claim to be an International anonymous blockchain lottery with instant payouts, open source code, fair draw process and transparent prize fund. You should probably contact them since they aim into being "Fair", it's pretty easy to contact their team on Telegram https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAELcwT-fgH2zG7xEng

Disclosure: I hold TFL Token bought during ICO.

A lot of the ethereum based websites and ICO businesses are doing a lot of innovative stuff with regards to fairness that even us in the bitcoin space can learn from.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: AmoreJaz on September 15, 2017, 06:34:21 AM
hats off to you ! i didnt think we would see such a thing for a while but now that you have started it , most certainly welcome!
Big thumbs up!!!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Kristoffff on September 15, 2017, 06:39:15 AM
Oh great! It's about time the online gambling scene steps up their game and launches a site with alot of information to educate a grander public. Maybe this could be a fresh start to get bitcoin in general in a better daylight. I like this idealogy! 8)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on September 15, 2017, 07:19:53 AM
It is nice that there is an initiative for making everything fair and standardized. Few questions though, I'd like to discuss this in-depth.

1. I would like to know if you plan this to be something like the ICANN of cryptocurrency gambling?
2. How will this foundation enforce their laws onto gambling sites?
3. Who will govern the foundation?
     a. If there would be a governing body, who will vote?
     b. If there would be election, who are eligible to vote?

I'll think of more questions and you'll surely hear more from me here on this thread.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RustyNoman on September 15, 2017, 08:23:36 AM
it's a nice idea, but hope this will not become a place for advertising stake and primedice, since it's in the hand of the owners of casinos, which i'm afraid this website will become when reading content on the website
Quote
Reputation is something that is heavily scrutinised over in the online gaming industry. We want to promote those who are dedicated to not only building a strong reputation, but also developing strategies to maintain and potentially improve on current practices.

i'm not convinced that casino owners are making guidelines how casinos should making provably fair games.

this is more a job for a third party developers/specialists and not for casino owners.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: hui on September 15, 2017, 08:24:55 AM
Good news! Looking forward to the community you guys will be building around it! I feel some education about the provably fair concept is badly needed and it's good to have one place that collects relevant information and might serve as a melting point for relevant sites!

Good luck with your endeavours!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: jossiel on September 15, 2017, 08:39:40 AM
Good initiative Stunna, you are concern to the bitcoin gambling community.

The fact that when people that are lack of knowledge hears about bitcoin gambling, they mostly think it's not fair.

Will wait for the list of online casino's that will join the foundation.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: YOLO_LIFE on September 15, 2017, 09:39:18 AM
It was really very cool idea to bring all the casinos to the single platform, let's see where this would leads to :)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: TheQuin on September 15, 2017, 09:43:03 AM
That a really positive initiative Stunna. I wish you all the best with it and will support all the way.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: zzaza on September 15, 2017, 11:18:43 AM
That is an exciting initiative Stunna! Looking forward to it and i hope you can build up something big, which will give a hand to everyone who is concerned about gambling and enlights them about everything they need to know about it.

Good luck!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on September 15, 2017, 01:01:52 PM
It is nice that there is an initiative for making everything fair and standardized. Few questions though, I'd like to discuss this in-depth.

1. I would like to know if you plan this to be something like the ICANN of cryptocurrency gambling?
2. How will this foundation enforce their laws onto gambling sites?
3. Who will govern the foundation?
     a. If there would be a governing body, who will vote?
     b. If there would be election, who are eligible to vote?

I'll think of more questions and you'll surely hear more from me here on this thread.
The foundation can not enforce its laws onto gambling sites if they are not willing to accept it.

But they can publicise a list of sites who agree to fulfil the rules of the foundation and players can use it as a guide.

If the foundation is able to collect money, it could enforce the publicly stated and valid laws against the shady operators. Based on my experience, in most cases the problem is not that victims can not do anything, the problem is that most claimants are not willing to spend anything!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Wendigo on September 15, 2017, 01:26:21 PM
Well is The Crypto Gaming Foundation going to be decentralized in the sense that it's not owned and operated entirely by you?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on September 15, 2017, 01:37:13 PM
Happy to be founding member of the foundation - PM me if you wish to join as an individual, operator or website! Membership is free for anyone with the outlying guidelines followed correctly.

The Askgamblers of Bitcoin Gambling.
If players have an issue with shady operators, they should ask online gambling legal experts and not gamblers.

You can read here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395617.msg21824104#msg21824104) how askgamblers denied to take a case and referred to a non-existing licensing authority!  ::)

If you want to introduce something ground breaking new that really can help players, I would not refer to ask gamblers.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: eternalgloom on September 15, 2017, 03:12:34 PM
Something weird is happening at my end, does anyone have the same issue?
I can access http://cryptogambling.org/ but not if I use the first link with www. before it like this http://www.cryptogambling.org/
Something might be wrong with the dns settings?

Great idea though and I agree that it's something that's really needed in the crypto gambling world.
Are you also offering some sort of quality control label that casinos can put on their website?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on September 16, 2017, 01:10:31 AM
it's a nice idea, but hope this will not become a place for advertising stake and primedice, since it's in the hand of the owners of casinos, which i'm afraid this website will become when reading content on the website
Quote
Reputation is something that is heavily scrutinised over in the online gaming industry. We want to promote those who are dedicated to not only building a strong reputation, but also developing strategies to maintain and potentially improve on current practices.

i'm not convinced that casino owners are making guidelines how casinos should making provably fair games.

this is more a job for a third party developers/specialists and not for casino owners.

It's ran & maintained by people in the industry which will not stand for this. Stunna & Primedice helped with  some small funding to create the website alongside posting the website. I believe the figureheads will be made public shortly. 


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Caladonian on September 16, 2017, 02:10:58 AM
Great start coming from the owner of primedice it will bring impact to this system as you said that its only an small fractions of gamblers who believe with provable fair system with your help I think it will gain attention and people will start to look at this site and show interest.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Kerzyy on September 16, 2017, 02:47:57 AM
I think there is a great need for there to be regulation regarding bitcoin casinos, mainly due to the ease of access. Very nice to see the owner of one endorsing this. Hopefully it can help provide other sites with the tools necessary to strengthen the trust between the player and the house.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on September 16, 2017, 06:44:30 AM
Loving all the support thus far!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: ThugStream on September 16, 2017, 07:53:42 AM
Awesome Great stuff.Fair Gambling is the one what we need and we want to use.

Hopefully, eveyone will get clear by this provably fair and get more knowledge!!!!

You guys always implement some exciting and interesting stuff for players.Taking this to new level!!.

Goodluck
ThugStream



Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: ThugStream on September 16, 2017, 08:01:31 AM
it's a nice idea, but hope this will not become a place for advertising stake and primedice, since it's in the hand of the owners of casinos, which i'm afraid this website will become when reading content on the website
Quote
Reputation is something that is heavily scrutinised over in the online gaming industry. We want to promote those who are dedicated to not only building a strong reputation, but also developing strategies to maintain and potentially improve on current practices.

i'm not convinced that casino owners are making guidelines how casinos should making provably fair games.

this is more a job for a third party developers/specialists and not for casino owners.

Well doesn't matter if its for advertising or promoting stuff. Provably Fair awarness is the important part besides promoting .

Casino Owners are the one with the good knowledge in giving guidelines cause this stuff is all the first came from them isn't it ?

Goodluck
ThugStream


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on September 16, 2017, 08:16:54 AM
was waiting for this for a long time just hoping that it will be done as it should be.

we dont want to be cheated and we dont want to cheat that is the reason we welcome this idea

we also would like to see a Provably fair option for Investors Investments

good luck


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RustyNoman on September 16, 2017, 08:29:13 AM
it's a nice idea, but hope this will not become a place for advertising stake and primedice, since it's in the hand of the owners of casinos, which i'm afraid this website will become when reading content on the website
Quote
Reputation is something that is heavily scrutinised over in the online gaming industry. We want to promote those who are dedicated to not only building a strong reputation, but also developing strategies to maintain and potentially improve on current practices.

i'm not convinced that casino owners are making guidelines how casinos should making provably fair games.

this is more a job for a third party developers/specialists and not for casino owners.

Well doesn't matter if its for advertising or promoting stuff. Provably Fair awarness is the important part besides promoting .

Casino Owners are the one with the good knowledge in giving guidelines cause this stuff is all the first came from them isn't it ?

Goodluck
ThugStream

Ofc it matters. Don't get me wrong, the idea is good, but the site running by a casino owner is not. This will not be an independent website and they can (and probably will) glorify their casinos to make them look better than others, under the pretext they're doing something for common good.

They will advertise their casinos one way or another. Smart move, I must admit.

Watch and see it happen  ;)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on September 16, 2017, 08:38:24 AM
it's a nice idea, but hope this will not become a place for advertising stake and primedice, since it's in the hand of the owners of casinos, which i'm afraid this website will become when reading content on the website
Quote
Reputation is something that is heavily scrutinised over in the online gaming industry. We want to promote those who are dedicated to not only building a strong reputation, but also developing strategies to maintain and potentially improve on current practices.

i'm not convinced that casino owners are making guidelines how casinos should making provably fair games.

this is more a job for a third party developers/specialists and not for casino owners.

Well doesn't matter if its for advertising or promoting stuff. Provably Fair awarness is the important part besides promoting .

Casino Owners are the one with the good knowledge in giving guidelines cause this stuff is all the first came from them isn't it ?

Goodluck
ThugStream

Ofc it matters. Don't get me wrong, the idea is good, but the site running by a casino owner is not. This will not be an independent website and they can (and probably will) glorify their casinos to make them look better than others, under the pretext they're doing something for common good.

They will advertise their casinos one way or another. Smart move, I must admit.

Watch and see it happen  ;)

there should be one best Provably fair option and all casinos should use it. dont know if such a Provably Fair option exists ( I am not an expert of PF)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on September 16, 2017, 08:56:26 AM
Finally!

This is going to be an awesome place for all crypto gambling.

Im am so happy to be part of it. And i will dedicate a lot of my time to help this grow.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on September 17, 2017, 11:19:26 AM
I tried to register but did not receive the confirmation mail. tried to resend the confirmation mail a few times without success.

who will take care of this problem?
thx


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on September 18, 2017, 12:39:51 AM
I tried to register but did not receive the confirmation mail. tried to resend the confirmation mail a few times without success.

who will take care of this problem?
thx

Looking into this now. Was working previously.



It is nice that there is an initiative for making everything fair and standardized. Few questions though, I'd like to discuss this in-depth.

1. I would like to know if you plan this to be something like the ICANN of cryptocurrency gambling?
2. How will this foundation enforce their laws onto gambling sites?
3. Who will govern the foundation?
     a. If there would be a governing body, who will vote?
     b. If there would be election, who are eligible to vote?

I'll think of more questions and you'll surely hear more from me here on this thread.

Realistically we can only enforce rules onto gambling sites that join up with the foundation, much like a gaming license provider would enforce rules onto their license holders. Since that isn't the case this is all the more necessary. As far as voting on matters we'd probably work something out so all websites get a vote and individuals are able to vote with a weight that makes sense relative to the two.

Also, I would like to stress that this isn't just about provably fair, that is just one piece of it. Realistically, abusive terms and conditions are an equally big issue in this space at the moment. Further, I don't think this is something that will work until we manage to decentralize in some meaningful way.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on September 18, 2017, 12:54:19 AM
The only slight self promotion that will be supported is that of all BTC/Crypto sites. They will in turn end up profiting money as more flows into our industry. Non provably fair sites will definitely take a hit as traction is built and vice versa.

This is an awesome technology which has been neglected for far too long honestly.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on September 19, 2017, 06:46:30 AM
Will be reaching out to some operators soon about joining up. If you have a website with good fairness and a good reputation and are interested let me know.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on September 19, 2017, 09:25:59 AM
I tried to register but did not receive the confirmation mail. tried to resend the confirmation mail a few times without success.

who will take care of this problem?
thx

Looking into this now. Was working previously.


will you let me please know when you solved the problem and what I need to do to finish registration?

thx


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on September 21, 2017, 11:13:19 AM
I tried to register but did not receive the confirmation mail. tried to resend the confirmation mail a few times without success.

who will take care of this problem?
thx

Looking into this now. Was working previously.



It is nice that there is an initiative for making everything fair and standardized. Few questions though, I'd like to discuss this in-depth.

1. I would like to know if you plan this to be something like the ICANN of cryptocurrency gambling?
2. How will this foundation enforce their laws onto gambling sites?
3. Who will govern the foundation?
     a. If there would be a governing body, who will vote?
     b. If there would be election, who are eligible to vote?

I'll think of more questions and you'll surely hear more from me here on this thread.

Realistically we can only enforce rules onto gambling sites that join up with the foundation, much like a gaming license provider would enforce rules onto their license holders. Since that isn't the case this is all the more necessary. As far as voting on matters we'd probably work something out so all websites get a vote and individuals are able to vote with a weight that makes sense relative to the two.

Also, I would like to stress that this isn't just about provably fair, that is just one piece of it. Realistically, abusive terms and conditions are an equally big issue in this space at the moment. Further, I don't think this is something that will work until we manage to decentralize in some meaningful way.
I see. So this would be indeed akin to some sort of treaty between countries where the only way you can enforce it is to have sites sign up. I guess it would be nice if all the gambling sites, old and new, would register here. But similar again to treaties, there are no way we can force anybody to sign up.

The initiative will really impact the crypto gambling industry for sure, it would just really take a lot of effort to make people join the association.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Chucho.tech on September 22, 2017, 04:58:43 AM
I would like to read more about it but so far looks interesting
 :o :o


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on September 23, 2017, 07:46:01 AM
I tried to register but did not receive the confirmation mail. tried to resend the confirmation mail a few times without success.

who will take care of this problem?
thx

Looking into this now. Was working previously.


will you let me please know when you solved the problem and what I need to do to finish registration?

thx

We confirmed your email, you should be able to login as normal.


It is nice that there is an initiative for making everything fair and standardized. Few questions though, I'd like to discuss this in-depth.

1. I would like to know if you plan this to be something like the ICANN of cryptocurrency gambling?
2. How will this foundation enforce their laws onto gambling sites?
3. Who will govern the foundation?
     a. If there would be a governing body, who will vote?
     b. If there would be election, who are eligible to vote?

I'll think of more questions and you'll surely hear more from me here on this thread.

The main goal is to create fair gaming standards for casinos to follow.  We must encourage better behaviour in this industry.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on September 23, 2017, 08:21:20 AM
I tried to register but did not receive the confirmation mail. tried to resend the confirmation mail a few times without success.

who will take care of this problem?
thx

Looking into this now. Was working previously.


will you let me please know when you solved the problem and what I need to do to finish registration?

thx

We confirmed your email, you should be able to login as normal.



thx a lot but I did not get the mail yet


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on September 26, 2017, 08:19:49 AM
Check some of the articles out! Some great reads


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on September 26, 2017, 08:48:21 AM
Check some of the articles out! Some great reads

who can help me with registration? I did not get the mail to confirm registration. shall I try a new registration?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: YOLO_LIFE on September 26, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
Check some of the articles out! Some great reads

who can help me with registration? I did not get the mail to confirm registration. shall I try a new registration?

I think currently there is no any team assigned to this site, primedice and stake team are handling this, it's really hard for them to maintain all three different entities. hope soon they will assign some team members only for this organization.


thanks.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: veleten on September 26, 2017, 11:41:01 AM
Check some of the articles out! Some great reads

who can help me with registration? I did not get the mail to confirm registration. shall I try a new registration?

I think currently there is no any team assigned to this site, primedice and stake team are handling this, it's really hard for them to maintain all three different entities. hope soon they will assign some team members only for this organization.


thanks.

Stunna posted that they are in the process of bringing in more operators and owners
the foundation would not work if it was just one dice site's owner present,even if one of the largest
hope we see more owners join in and there is some sort of manifesto agreed upon
and hope there are ways to enforce things or at least be a reliable source of info about the online casinos and dice sites
since the scene is full of questionable and plain scammy sites this should help both players and owners alike


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 06, 2017, 05:04:52 AM
Hoping to get some more people on board. Current people signed up: Bustabit.com, bustadice.com, Stake.com & Primedice.com


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Jprfan on October 06, 2017, 05:11:53 AM
Check some of the articles out! Some great reads

who can help me with registration? I did not get the mail to confirm registration. shall I try a new registration?

Answer him!  Are you afraid because he is more smarter than the rest of you?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: adaseb on October 06, 2017, 06:48:45 AM
So this is more or less like an Open Better Business Bureau type of setup ?

Where the most trusted sites join and if they are competent they get to show the logo and gamblers can go to your site to confirm that the site is being fair and compliant.

I can see this working, especially if its non-profit only. Not where you require a payment to get to list a site and the site gets to display your logo.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 06, 2017, 10:29:25 AM
So this is more or less like an Open Better Business Bureau type of setup ?

Where the most trusted sites join and if they are competent they get to show the logo and gamblers can go to your site to confirm that the site is being fair and compliant.

I can see this working, especially if its non-profit only. Not where you require a payment to get to list a site and the site gets to display your logo.


Yeh exactly, any members are welcome to join the "Board" and help out with running the foundation.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Pif on October 06, 2017, 10:36:31 AM
This sound like a good news for cryptogambling world: something has to be done to clear bitcoin (and cryptos in general) reputation. Most of non bitcoiners still associate BTC to shady business and this is a step in the right direction to show those people they are wrong nowadays.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Jprfan on October 06, 2017, 02:03:14 PM
So this is more or less like an Open Better Business Bureau type of setup ?

Where the most trusted sites join and if they are competent they get to show the logo and gamblers can go to your site to confirm that the site is being fair and compliant.

I can see this working, especially if its non-profit only. Not where you require a payment to get to list a site and the site gets to display your logo.


Yeh exactly, any members are welcome to join the "Board" and help out with running the foundation.

Jackpotracer has made several tries to join.

He needs to be added. You added others after his request. You need to help him be a part of this.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 07, 2017, 08:04:05 AM
Check some of the articles out! Some great reads

who can help me with registration? I did not get the mail to confirm registration. shall I try a new registration?

Still having issues? The forum isn't exactly active at the moment so that shouldn't be an issue. PM me if you/JPR would like to sign up!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on October 09, 2017, 06:28:48 AM
Bitsler should ask to join, they have all fair games and are on the same level as Primedice


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on October 09, 2017, 02:29:54 PM
This is gonna to take a long time to get up to speed but its something that its very much needed by bitcoin community.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on October 10, 2017, 03:05:03 AM
This is gonna to take a long time to get up to speed but its something that its very much needed by bitcoin community.

Are you on the board Micro?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 10, 2017, 05:43:22 AM
This is gonna to take a long time to get up to speed but its something that its very much needed by bitcoin community.

Are you on the board Micro?

Yeh he is


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on October 10, 2017, 02:49:44 PM
This is gonna to take a long time to get up to speed but its something that its very much needed by bitcoin community.

Are you on the board Micro?

Yeah, I will dedicate a lot of my time to this when we get it going.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: WorldEG on October 10, 2017, 03:11:09 PM
Great idea!

Hope to see more verified members soon :)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on October 12, 2017, 06:41:52 AM
Will start slowly sending out invites. If you'd like to join PM Aengus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1099499

At this stage we're trying to spotlight websites that are provably fair and honest actors in the scene & give those sites a platform where their voice can be heard. Currently, Bustabit, PD, Stake are members.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on October 12, 2017, 06:52:37 AM
Will start slowly sending out invites. If you'd like to join PM Aengus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1099499

At this stage we're trying to spotlight websites that are provably fair and honest actors in the scene & give those sites a platform where their voice can be heard.

hi
 
I PMed Aengus on 7th of oct to help me to register to the forum and to get more info but did not get an answer yet.

shall I try to register again? I did not try it yet becuase I am afraid it might ask for a new mail addy and nickname

thx


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on October 12, 2017, 07:01:24 AM
Will start slowly sending out invites. If you'd like to join PM Aengus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1099499

At this stage we're trying to spotlight websites that are provably fair and honest actors in the scene & give those sites a platform where their voice can be heard.

hi
 
I PMed Aengus on 7th of oct to help me to register to the forum and to get more info but did not get an answer yet.

shall I try to register again? I did not try it yet becuase I am afraid it might ask for a new mail addy and nickname

thx

Your registration was manually approved, have you tried logging in with whatever details you set?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on October 12, 2017, 07:18:36 AM
Will start slowly sending out invites. If you'd like to join PM Aengus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1099499

At this stage we're trying to spotlight websites that are provably fair and honest actors in the scene & give those sites a platform where their voice can be heard.

hi
 
I PMed Aengus on 7th of oct to help me to register to the forum and to get more info but did not get an answer yet.

shall I try to register again? I did not try it yet becuase I am afraid it might ask for a new mail addy and nickname

thx

Your registration was manually approved, have you tried logging in with whatever details you set?

I could sign in thx a lot


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on October 19, 2017, 12:52:16 AM
Stunna when are you inviting other sites? i've noticed the logo on the bottom of your sites


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: mBet_Shaun on October 22, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
Hoping to get some more people on board. Current people signed up: Bustabit.com, bustadice.com, Stake.com & Primedice.com

We (mbet.io) would be happy to participate if you are looking at working with sportsbooks.  Is there anywhere I can get a look at the code of conduct, I looked but cant seem to find it.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: paullaider on October 22, 2017, 08:14:25 AM
Could we know, what's kind forums will be present?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on October 22, 2017, 05:07:31 PM
Hoping to get some more people on board. Current people signed up: Bustabit.com, bustadice.com, Stake.com & Primedice.com

We (mbet.io) would be happy to participate if you are looking at working with sportsbooks.  Is there anywhere I can get a look at the code of conduct, I looked but cant seem to find it.

Will consider putting together a proper code of conduct but prefer to keep things simple for this moment.

- Provide a fair experience [Provably fair, fair treatment of players]

- Maintain a flawless reputation

I've made a topic on the forum regarding suggesting more: https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/15-suggest-cgf-principles/


Could we know, what's kind forums will be present?

https://forum.cryptogambling.org/

It's my hope that we collectively can push each-other to do better, mediate major complaints and encourage the rest of the industry to improve practices.









Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 25, 2017, 01:12:55 AM
Code of conduct

 - Proper provably fair (Nonce, server seed, client seed - No provably fair whereby
 - Flawless reputation (No complaints of unfair missing user funds due to T&C etc.)
 - Proof of solvency if an investment website

This could change. The major factor is simply providing a fully fair gaming experience whereby users can have peace of mind.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: camkim600 on October 25, 2017, 01:49:48 AM
my acc:phamdtu81
TY


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: spngebob on October 25, 2017, 09:21:18 PM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 26, 2017, 02:19:26 AM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)

The server seed doesn't change on every bet. This leaves the outcome determined by the client seed only. All bets can be verified when the hashed server seed is revealed.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: lrdeoliveira on October 26, 2017, 05:26:09 AM
What are going to be some new initiatives of the foundation. It's cool to see Aengus announcing you'll be tidying up whether sites are actually fair or not.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Kakmakr on October 26, 2017, 06:58:54 AM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)

I want to add a question onto this. Who can validate the claims that these systems are implementing these systems correctly? Let's take the Lottery system for Freebitco.in as a example. The site claims that their system is Provably Fair, but most people do not have the technical know how to validate these claims.

A faucet/gambling site like Freebitco.in is very popular amongst the poorest people in the world and should be 100% legit.

Can you please add your answer to this question, with spngebob's answer?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: spngebob on October 26, 2017, 02:47:47 PM

The server seed doesn't change on every bet. This leaves the outcome determined by the client seed only. All bets can be verified when the hashed server seed is revealed.
There is a difference between how something should work and how something is working
I know one site where server seed is changing together with nonce.
I would like to see Stunna's answer on this, maybe he missed question, i'll send him message.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: adaseb on October 26, 2017, 09:15:54 PM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)

This was discussed many many times in the past with various sites.

Basically its technically possible some gambling site can cheat you ONLY if you NEVER change your bet habit and NEVER change your client seed.

The site can have some pregenerated keys and if they detect you are someone who only martingales AND never changes the win direction, then they can give you some bad keys that will generate 10-20 losses in a row to clean you out.

However I am pretty sure Primedice never does this. And its also risky for the casino because what if you change from being a predictable gambler to a non-predictable gambler.

Someone can basically, martingale with 100 Sats bets for like 10000 Rolls, and then all of a sudden they can switch their bet habits and trick the site.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on October 27, 2017, 03:34:38 AM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)

This was discussed many many times in the past with various sites.

Basically its technically possible some gambling site can cheat you ONLY if you NEVER change your bet habit and NEVER change your client seed.

The site can have some pregenerated keys and if they detect you are someone who only martingales AND never changes the win direction, then they can give you some bad keys that will generate 10-20 losses in a row to clean you out.

However I am pretty sure Primedice never does this. And its also risky for the casino because what if you change from being a predictable gambler to a non-predictable gambler.

Someone can basically, martingale with 100 Sats bets for like 10000 Rolls, and then all of a sudden they can switch their bet habits and trick the site.

Well said, this is why I generally only trust dice sites. But initiatives like onehash & www.stake.com are making other types of gambling possible to easily verify.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: lrdeoliveira on October 27, 2017, 04:52:04 AM
Looks like Rhaver is on board!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on October 29, 2017, 11:26:04 PM
Looks like Rhaver is on board!

Going to need more than that, heard Dean is on board too?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on October 30, 2017, 11:42:21 AM
Looks like Rhaver is on board!

Going to need more than that, heard Dean is on board too?

Would be great if we all join up. We need to show FIAT old-school casinos how its done properly :) .


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on October 31, 2017, 04:12:53 AM
Looking to hopefully have this stickied soon!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: devans on October 31, 2017, 04:20:30 PM
Every casino that uses unfair practices or poorly implements provable fairness damages the entire industry. Industry leaders coming together like this to self-police and encourage best practices could be very beneficial for all crypto casinos as a whole as well as their players.

I look forward to being part of this initiative with bustadice and will be in touch with Aengus to discuss how I can help out.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: casinobitco on October 31, 2017, 05:32:13 PM
MonsterByte.io (the parent company to many crypto gaming provably fair platforms) requested more details; haven't heard back yet.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: adaseb on October 31, 2017, 06:38:16 PM
Besides the "fair" provably fair verification process.

I think another important factor should be a site willing to provide how much capital it has.


There are many small sites that allow huge bets but have very little capital on their cold storage. And either some whale or some bad streak can easily cause the site to become insolvent.



Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on November 01, 2017, 01:22:29 AM
Every casino that uses unfair practices or poorly implements provable fairness damages the entire industry. Industry leaders coming together like this to self-police and encourage best practices could be very beneficial for all crypto casinos as a whole as well as their players.

I look forward to being part of this initiative with bustadice and will be in touch with Aengus to discuss how I can help out.

Great to hear you guys are on board, your website is extremely impressive and I love what you've done in innovate dice (It's been a very long time since someone has done such a thing!). You can find me on Telegram @EdMiroslav.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on November 01, 2017, 01:26:21 AM

The server seed doesn't change on every bet. This leaves the outcome determined by the client seed only. All bets can be verified when the hashed server seed is revealed.
There is a difference between how something should work and how something is working
I know one site where server seed is changing together with nonce.
I would like to see Stunna's answer on this, maybe he missed question, i'll send him message.


The server seed is produced by the server (Ie. the HOUSE), if the house knows your client seed, they obviously know what the next nonce is (it goes up incrementally) then they definitely can manipulate the outcome of your event through pushing a different server seed based on the above information.

Fairness is created through the house not knowing certain information. In your case, they know too much.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on November 01, 2017, 09:17:20 PM
Besides the "fair" provably fair verification process.

I think another important factor should be a site willing to provide how much capital it has.


There are many small sites that allow huge bets but have very little capital on their cold storage. And either some whale or some bad streak can easily cause the site to become insolvent.

Everyone has his religion! Some claim provably fair is important, others claim that the site must provide how much capital it has and based on my experience I claim that there need to be a fund where money goes in to enforce claims of victims. In some cases there is nothing you can do, but in most cases victims could initiate legal action, but they never heard the word court and or are not willing to spend a small percentage!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on November 01, 2017, 10:28:15 PM
Besides the "fair" provably fair verification process.

I think another important factor should be a site willing to provide how much capital it has.


There are many small sites that allow huge bets but have very little capital on their cold storage. And either some whale or some bad streak can easily cause the site to become insolvent.

Everyone has his religion! Some claim provably fair is important, others claim that the site must provide how much capital it has and based on my experience I claim that there need to be a fund where money goes in to enforce claims of victims. In some cases there is nothing you can do, but in most cases victims could initiate legal action, but they never heard the word court and or are not willing to spend a small percentage!

Why bother with court cases etc. when a site can be fully transparent with its dealings/bets & in return risk its reputation without it having to be proven in court?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: coin2me on November 01, 2017, 10:55:52 PM
Hello

I am interested in knowing the concept and who knows how to adopt in Coin2Me (www.coin2.me)!

Congratulations on the initiative and good luck!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: veleten on November 02, 2017, 01:32:59 AM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)

This was discussed many many times in the past with various sites.

Basically its technically possible some gambling site can cheat you ONLY if you NEVER change your bet habit and NEVER change your client seed.

The site can have some pregenerated keys and if they detect you are someone who only martingales AND never changes the win direction, then they can give you some bad keys that will generate 10-20 losses in a row to clean you out.

However I am pretty sure Primedice never does this. And its also risky for the casino because what if you change from being a predictable gambler to a non-predictable gambler.

Someone can basically, martingale with 100 Sats bets for like 10000 Rolls, and then all of a sudden they can switch their bet habits and trick the site.

well if the site's seed is not changing it is technically impossible to cheat
unless there is some fundamental flaw in the provably fair system or cryptography
when the site is changing the seed every roll (999dice,fortunejack,bitvest and some other sites) it is possible
the server could track the habbit or patterns of a player on the fly and send a sequence of losing events
but the next roll is always predetermined so you are free to try and change the pattern if you suspect foul play
not that I think any of the sites are doing this,but this is possible in this case,yes
usually you could suspect this if one of the sites beats the math time and time again,i.e. if the chances for you to roll 14 reds on a 1.5x multiplier is one in 200.000 rolls
and you are getting them consistently in under 5.000 rolls or so,could be bad luck or could be foul play


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: digaran on November 02, 2017, 02:01:41 AM
Foundation? how can I have a girl jumping foundation, I beg of you to help me have it, first lol. if casinos use provably fair then people will abuse it, if they don't use provably fair then people would never gamble. how do you say something is provably fair? it's not provable if it's not fair.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: adaseb on November 02, 2017, 08:25:45 AM
Stunna I want to ask you something.

Real provably fair system is - client seed + server seed + nonce.
Client seed and server seed should remain the same while nonce change from 1 to n.

If you don't change client seed, nonce is changing from 1 - n and server seed is changing on every bet is that really provably fair system?
House could simple catch client seed, calculate nonce and give you bad outcomes.
And what is the point of nonce if server seed change on every bet?

My second(third?) question - without nonce, if client seed is unchanged, and server seed is changing on every bet, casino could see clients seed and give to player bad seeds.
How one can prove house didn't cheat?

Is that possible?(4th question)

This was discussed many many times in the past with various sites.

Basically its technically possible some gambling site can cheat you ONLY if you NEVER change your bet habit and NEVER change your client seed.

The site can have some pregenerated keys and if they detect you are someone who only martingales AND never changes the win direction, then they can give you some bad keys that will generate 10-20 losses in a row to clean you out.

However I am pretty sure Primedice never does this. And its also risky for the casino because what if you change from being a predictable gambler to a non-predictable gambler.

Someone can basically, martingale with 100 Sats bets for like 10000 Rolls, and then all of a sudden they can switch their bet habits and trick the site.

well if the site's seed is not changing it is technically impossible to cheat
unless there is some fundamental flaw in the provably fair system or cryptography
when the site is changing the seed every roll (999dice,fortunejack,bitvest and some other sites) it is possible
the server could track the habbit or patterns of a player on the fly and send a sequence of losing events
but the next roll is always predetermined so you are free to try and change the pattern if you suspect foul play
not that I think any of the sites are doing this,but this is possible in this case,yes
usually you could suspect this if one of the sites beats the math time and time again,i.e. if the chances for you to roll 14 reds on a 1.5x multiplier is one in 200.000 rolls
and you are getting them consistently in under 5.000 rolls or so,could be bad luck or could be foul play

I agree. If the provably system is working correctly then its not possible to cheat. Since you would need a quantum computer and even if you had one you might as well might some Bitcoins instead.

But there are bugs sometimes, I remember there was an ETH dice site that had a bug and its unhashed seed was leaked. Luckily the admin caught it because the gambler apparently had way too many wins in a row and it didn't look like a coincidence.

Like you said, its possible they can do this but its very difficult to predict gambling behaviour and the gambler might discover they are being targetted and just do the opposite and win instead.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on November 02, 2017, 11:19:40 PM
Besides the "fair" provably fair verification process.

I think another important factor should be a site willing to provide how much capital it has.


There are many small sites that allow huge bets but have very little capital on their cold storage. And either some whale or some bad streak can easily cause the site to become insolvent.

Everyone has his religion! Some claim provably fair is important, others claim that the site must provide how much capital it has and based on my experience I claim that there need to be a fund where money goes in to enforce claims of victims. In some cases there is nothing you can do, but in most cases victims could initiate legal action, but they never heard the word court and or are not willing to spend a small percentage!

Why bother with court cases etc. when a site can be fully transparent with its dealings/bets & in return risk its reputation without it having to be proven in court?
The court cases are not to proof that it was not provably fair. The court cases are to enforce account balances or claims, as there are gambling operators that simply embezzle (https://game-protect.com/online-gaming-embezzlement/) the hole balances of all customers at one point or selectively close accounts with false accusations.

The gambling sites who scam do not care about their reputation and they find enough victims that are not aware about their scam tactics!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on November 07, 2017, 07:31:09 PM
Besides the "fair" provably fair verification process.

I think another important factor should be a site willing to provide how much capital it has.


There are many small sites that allow huge bets but have very little capital on their cold storage. And either some whale or some bad streak can easily cause the site to become insolvent.

Everyone has his religion! Some claim provably fair is important, others claim that the site must provide how much capital it has and based on my experience I claim that there need to be a fund where money goes in to enforce claims of victims. In some cases there is nothing you can do, but in most cases victims could initiate legal action, but they never heard the word court and or are not willing to spend a small percentage!

Why bother with court cases etc. when a site can be fully transparent with its dealings/bets & in return risk its reputation without it having to be proven in court?
The court cases are not to proof that it was not provably fair. The court cases are to enforce account balances or claims, as there are gambling operators that simply embezzle (https://game-protect.com/online-gaming-embezzlement/) the hole balances of all customers at one point or selectively close accounts with false accusations.

The gambling sites who scam do not care about their reputation and they find enough victims that are not aware about their scam tactics!

I understand this is what we're trying to avoid. We're discussing taking any losses players may have from CGF approved websites and refunding them (Investment sites not included)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on November 08, 2017, 03:36:09 AM
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/forum/54-verified-operators-feedback-complaints-discussion/

All operators have a thread here for you to give feedback if you please.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on November 17, 2017, 01:46:38 AM
Slowly putting together a draft directory for all operators in the Bitcoin scene. These are operators who are not verified. With that said it does not mean they are not trusted. We will work on making this directory more comprehensive and standardized. 

https://forum.cryptogambling.org/forum/55-non-verified-operators-feedback-complaints-discussion/


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on December 04, 2017, 03:31:39 AM
Slowly putting together a draft directory for all operators in the Bitcoin scene. These are operators who are not verified. With that said it does not mean they are not trusted. We will work on making this directory more comprehensive and standardized. 

https://forum.cryptogambling.org/forum/55-non-verified-operators-feedback-complaints-discussion/

Great to see. Would be awesome to see the forum more populated and this used more like a complaint & open forum for people to vent issues.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on December 04, 2017, 03:41:43 AM
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/41-covering-scams-under-the-cgf-brand/


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RHavar on December 04, 2017, 11:20:35 AM
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/41-covering-scams-under-the-cgf-brand/

This is a really cool idea! However, the issue with most provably fair systems -- is that you can only verify your own bets but not someone elses. A casino can just outright lie and there's no way for an independent party to know.  :-[


So one possible idea, would be that the Crypto Gambling Foundation runs an "seed server" for each casino. Basically like the provably fair of bustadice.com ( https://gist.github.com/RHavar/285c295f7906e03369cd66580a1b5f45 ) which allows an independent party to verify the games. So it could be run by the Crypto Gambling Foundation.

But even then, there can still ambiguities. Like person says "I didn't request that withdrawal" and the casino is like "yeah you did".

The only way I can see to avoid that too, is just pure on-chain gambling games. (Like when I made pevpot: It was provably fair, non-repudiatable and immune to miners tampering. However, like most on-chain games it kind of sucked and people didn't actually like playing it).


???


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RGBKey on December 04, 2017, 02:29:03 PM
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/41-covering-scams-under-the-cgf-brand/

This is a really cool idea! However, the issue with most provably fair systems -- is that you can only verify your own bets but not someone elses. A casino can just outright lie and there's no way for an independent party to know.  :-[


So one possible idea, would be that the Crypto Gambling Foundation runs an "seed server" for each casino. Basically like the provably fair of bustadice.com ( https://gist.github.com/RHavar/285c295f7906e03369cd66580a1b5f45 ) which allows an independent party to verify the games. So it could be run by the Crypto Gambling Foundation.

But even then, there can still ambiguities. Like person says "I didn't request that withdrawal" and the casino is like "yeah you did".

The only way I can see to avoid that too, is just pure on-chain gambling games. (Like when I made pevpot: It was provably fair, non-repudiatable and immune to miners tampering. However, like most on-chain games it kind of sucked and people didn't actually like playing it).


???

Maybe somebody could be the first to leverage the just-released testnet of RSK to create Bitcoin smart contract gambling (https://www.rsk.co/)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on December 04, 2017, 03:01:33 PM
I would like to say that this is getting good! The crypto gambling foundation is getting traction, I saw that the logo of CGF was used on bustadice. Good to see that some gambling sites are support this movement. Maybe one day CGF would be a centralized body that would not really control the gambling industry but more of just to enforce fair play with everybody.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on December 05, 2017, 02:20:44 AM
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/41-covering-scams-under-the-cgf-brand/

This is a really cool idea! However, the issue with most provably fair systems -- is that you can only verify your own bets but not someone elses. A casino can just outright lie and there's no way for an independent party to know.  :-[


So one possible idea, would be that the Crypto Gambling Foundation runs an "seed server" for each casino. Basically like the provably fair of bustadice.com ( https://gist.github.com/RHavar/285c295f7906e03369cd66580a1b5f45 ) which allows an independent party to verify the games. So it could be run by the Crypto Gambling Foundation.

But even then, there can still ambiguities. Like person says "I didn't request that withdrawal" and the casino is like "yeah you did".

The only way I can see to avoid that too, is just pure on-chain gambling games. (Like when I made pevpot: It was provably fair, non-repudiatable and immune to miners tampering. However, like most on-chain games it kind of sucked and people didn't actually like playing it).


???

Maybe somebody could be the first to leverage the just-released testnet of RSK to create Bitcoin smart contract gambling (https://www.rsk.co/)

We've been exploring RSK smart contracts for use in a new stake.com multiplayer game. 


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Don Pedro Dinero on December 05, 2017, 05:15:13 AM
I’d like to suggest that fair gambling sites should have all features for responsible gambling, so when people have self-control problems they can ask to be banned from the site for a certain period and/or setting limits of deposit. This is something most fiat sites have and make money anyway. This shows real interest in your customers.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: lrdeoliveira on December 06, 2017, 01:38:22 AM
I’d like to suggest that fair gambling sites should have all features for responsible gambling, so when people have self-control problems they can ask to be banned from the site for a certain period and/or setting limits of deposit. This is something most fiat sites have and make money anyway. This shows real interest in your customers.

Great idea, I remember seeing on Primedice forum a while back the opportunity for people to present their idea for anti gambling addiction for funding.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: adaseb on December 06, 2017, 01:46:29 AM
I’d like to suggest that fair gambling sites should have all features for responsible gambling, so when people have self-control problems they can ask to be banned from the site for a certain period and/or setting limits of deposit. This is something most fiat sites have and make money anyway. This shows real interest in your customers.

Yeah but will sites really ban gamblers who are over a certain limit?

Basically most casinos make their largest revenue when someone is trading on emotion. If they started banning when people hit their limits, they would cool off and the next day most likely withdraw everything.

They do something similiar with traders. Basically a manager looks over your portfolio and P/L and if you are taking too many risks and losing they tell you to go home and come back tomorrow.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on December 06, 2017, 03:57:10 AM
I’d like to suggest that fair gambling sites should have all features for responsible gambling, so when people have self-control problems they can ask to be banned from the site for a certain period and/or setting limits of deposit. This is something most fiat sites have and make money anyway. This shows real interest in your customers.

Yeah but will sites really ban gamblers who are over a certain limit?

Basically most casinos make their largest revenue when someone is trading on emotion. If they started banning when people hit their limits, they would cool off and the next day most likely withdraw everything.

They do something similiar with traders. Basically a manager looks over your portfolio and P/L and if you are taking too many risks and losing they tell you to go home and come back tomorrow.

It has to be an Opt-in service not something you'd force on users. Otherwise your players would sit there thinking they were about to win the money back and you've restricted them from doing so and it also becomes a question of fairness. We have yet to really offer anything automated across our sites to deal with this, an option to simply lock your account from betting over a period of time you can select makes sense though as a cooldown. 


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Don Pedro Dinero on December 06, 2017, 11:26:00 AM
I’d like to suggest that fair gambling sites should have all features for responsible gambling, so when people have self-control problems they can ask to be banned from the site for a certain period and/or setting limits of deposit. This is something most fiat sites have and make money anyway. This shows real interest in your customers.

Yeah but will sites really ban gamblers who are over a certain limit?

Basically most casinos make their largest revenue when someone is trading on emotion. If they started banning when people hit their limits, they would cool off and the next day most likely withdraw everything.

They do something similiar with traders. Basically a manager looks over your portfolio and P/L and if you are taking too many risks and losing they tell you to go home and come back tomorrow.

It has to be an Opt-in service not something you'd force on users. Otherwise your players would sit there thinking they were about to win the money back and you've restricted them from doing so and it also becomes a question of fairness. We have yet to really offer anything automated across our sites to deal with this, an option to simply lock your account from betting over a period of time you can select makes sense though as a cooldown. 

Who said anything about forcing users? No casino forces users to take those measures.

Also, fiat casinos who have those features implemented make a lot of money. Not everybody uses them, and they can be changed by the user at certain times. For example. You allow yourself a maximum weekly deposit of 1BTC but you can change that 6 months after you set that limit.

People use those features, like self-exclusion for a certain period of time, after they have lost a lot of money, not before.

It gives casinos a good reputation and an image of taking care of their customers.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on December 06, 2017, 10:39:28 PM
I’d like to suggest that fair gambling sites should have all features for responsible gambling, so when people have self-control problems they can ask to be banned from the site for a certain period and/or setting limits of deposit. This is something most fiat sites have and make money anyway. This shows real interest in your customers.

Yeah but will sites really ban gamblers who are over a certain limit?

Basically most casinos make their largest revenue when someone is trading on emotion. If they started banning when people hit their limits, they would cool off and the next day most likely withdraw everything.

They do something similiar with traders. Basically a manager looks over your portfolio and P/L and if you are taking too many risks and losing they tell you to go home and come back tomorrow.

It has to be an Opt-in service not something you'd force on users. Otherwise your players would sit there thinking they were about to win the money back and you've restricted them from doing so and it also becomes a question of fairness. We have yet to really offer anything automated across our sites to deal with this, an option to simply lock your account from betting over a period of time you can select makes sense though as a cooldown. 

Who said anything about forcing users? No casino forces users to take those measures.

Also, fiat casinos who have those features implemented make a lot of money. Not everybody uses them, and they can be changed by the user at certain times. For example. You allow yourself a maximum weekly deposit of 1BTC but you can change that 6 months after you set that limit.

People use those features, like self-exclusion for a certain period of time, after they have lost a lot of money, not before.

It gives casinos a good reputation and an image of taking care of their customers.


Ah, I misread. Self-exclusion makes sense and I'll make sure we offer a seamless way to do so in a future update. There is still the issue of how easy it is to create an account, and I don't want to lock-away player funds even if they want it so in case they end up needing it for another purpose.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RGBKey on December 06, 2017, 11:19:18 PM
-snip-

Ah, I misread. Self-exclusion makes sense and I'll make sure we offer a seamless way to do so in a future update. There is still the issue of how easy it is to create an account, and I don't want to lock-away player funds even if they want it so in case they end up needing it for another purpose.

You don't need to lock player funds from withdraw, just lock the games from being played.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: kurian on December 14, 2017, 06:00:42 PM
Good initiative. You people are doing a wonderful job. Being 100% fair is a rare thing for casinos. Hats off to you guys for standing up for raising awareness about the issues and solutions regarding trust.

Good luck !


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on December 18, 2017, 12:14:38 PM
Aengus, did you found the CGF or did Stunna.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: oracleongoodbye on December 18, 2017, 10:30:49 PM
Aengus, did you found the CGF or did Stunna.

Looks like Aengus is. I'm sure Stunna is apart of it. None the less the idea behind it is that. no one should really own it.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Nelka4 on December 19, 2017, 02:13:20 AM
Aengus, did you found the CGF or did Stunna.

Looks like Aengus is. I'm sure Stunna is apart of it. None the less the idea behind it is that. no one should really own it.


Stupid question I guess. I hope this foundation stays decentralised. I'm sure they will due to the fact how trusted the names behind it are.

Looking forward to seeing this grow. I loved everything on the website, awesome articles. I even reposted some if you all didn't mind.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Aengus on December 20, 2017, 07:45:04 AM
Aengus, did you found the CGF or did Stunna.

Looks like Aengus is. I'm sure Stunna is apart of it. None the less the idea behind it is that. no one should really own it.


Stupid question I guess. I hope this foundation stays decentralised. I'm sure they will due to the fact how trusted the names behind it are.

Looking forward to seeing this grow. I loved everything on the website, awesome articles. I even reposted some if you all didn't mind.

We like to think that.

We're working on really pushing the foundation to the next level shortly.

I've been getting numerous PM's, alongside Stunna, for websites to join the foundation but don't have the right requirements. We've introduced a team of two people to help these casinos fix their fairness and join up.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on December 20, 2017, 01:25:05 PM
Aengus, did you found the CGF or did Stunna.

Looks like Aengus is. I'm sure Stunna is apart of it. None the less the idea behind it is that. no one should really own it.


Stupid question I guess. I hope this foundation stays decentralised. I'm sure they will due to the fact how trusted the names behind it are.

Looking forward to seeing this grow. I loved everything on the website, awesome articles. I even reposted some if you all didn't mind.

We like to think that.

We're working on really pushing the foundation to the next level shortly.

I've been getting numerous PM's, alongside Stunna, for websites to join the foundation but don't have the right requirements. We've introduced a team of two people to help these casinos fix their fairness and join up.

very good  and helpful move IMO

we are again in a dead end situation because the dev we had for more than 6 month now stopped for now. I will contact you guys soon and lets see if you can help after understanding our situation.

good luck


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: lrdeoliveira on December 27, 2017, 12:19:34 AM
Games.Bitcoin.com should be invited to join


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: EnF0Rc3r on January 02, 2018, 08:32:22 PM
For me, the most important thing when it comes to online casinos is that I can verify my bets, to make sure that casino is not cheating in some way. I support you guys 100% and I'm really looking forward to it.

P.S.
A lot of players don't really know what "provably fair" really means. Your articles are more than helpful.

Good Luck!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: adaseb on January 03, 2018, 01:07:17 AM
For me, the most important thing when it comes to online casinos is that I can verify my bets, to make sure that casino is not cheating in some way. I support you guys 100% and I really looking forward to it.

P.S.
A lot of players don't really know what "provably fair" really means. Your articles are more than helpful.

Good Luck!

These days verifying bets is standard practice. Almost every site has some form of provably fair technology for verifying bets.

I think what sites need to do however is have some form of similiar provably fair software. Because some sites do it differently than others. For example some sites always give you a new client seed for every roll, some sites only do it per session.

This is fine however but it makes it very difficult for a new person to verify the bets if they aren't used to the basic standard.

For example look at www.megadice.com, they give you a provably fair seed, but we have no idea how to verify it


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Justyn on January 03, 2018, 02:35:50 AM
Great site and great sight ;D always good to see people stepping up for the rights of their players and demanding that people implement proper provably fair systems. It still amazes me people gamble at sites where there's almost no proof that good practices are in play.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: oracleongoodbye on January 09, 2018, 02:42:03 AM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RHavar on January 10, 2018, 02:40:19 PM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.

I think "verifiable fairness", is the most descriptive. But the term "provably fair" is so well established that I don't think there's much upside in rebranding it.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on January 11, 2018, 06:07:53 AM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.

I think "verifiable fairness", is the most descriptive. But the term "provably fair" is so well established that I don't think there's much upside in rebranding it.

Yeah, it has been thrown around in almost every casino I've been since I started gambling with cryptocurrencies. However, I would agree with oracleongoodbye here (though not about the word "provably" since I can't really find any truth that it is not a word because from a quick google search it almost always comes up in dictionaries that it is an adverb of the word "prove"). I agree with the part about renaming it because exactly of the fact that it has been thrown around too much and has not been taken seriously by casinos.

Probably, the best thing to do is the CGF should create it's own branding that would specifically say that it has been reviewed by CGF and that brand means like a certified seal of authenticity of sorts. Then this should be verifiable as well in the CGF website probably through a list of casinos that CGF has given its seal of approval.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: hilariousetc on January 12, 2018, 07:26:03 AM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.

I think "verifiable fairness", is the most descriptive. But the term "provably fair" is so well established that I don't think there's much upside in rebranding it.

Yeah, it has been thrown around in almost every casino I've been since I started gambling with cryptocurrencies. However, I would agree with oracleongoodbye here (though not about the word "provably" since I can't really find any truth that it is not a word because from a quick google search it almost always comes up in dictionaries that it is an adverb of the word "prove"). I agree with the part about renaming it because exactly of the fact that it has been thrown around too much and has not been taken seriously by casinos.

Probably, the best thing to do is the CGF should create it's own branding that would specifically say that it has been reviewed by CGF and that brand means like a certified seal of authenticity of sorts. Then this should be verifiable as well in the CGF website probably through a list of casinos that CGF has given its seal of approval.

I think 'provably' is slightly confusing because it looks and sounds too similar to 'probably' (which isn't good) and people are often not sure how it's even pronounced. It's obviously pronounced 'proove-ably' but I often hear people say it as prov-ably which just leads to confusion (because what the hell is prov-ably?  ;D).

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/provably

I think a rebranding would be helpful but you could just start referring to it as provably fair / true fairness or verifiably fair etc and see if one of them catches on along with provably or if its use even surpasses that of provably. If this foundation pushes one of them I soon think the phrase would catch on and could become a mark of quality/trust.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on January 12, 2018, 08:24:43 AM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.

I think "verifiable fairness", is the most descriptive. But the term "provably fair" is so well established that I don't think there's much upside in rebranding it.

Yeah, it has been thrown around in almost every casino I've been since I started gambling with cryptocurrencies. However, I would agree with oracleongoodbye here (though not about the word "provably" since I can't really find any truth that it is not a word because from a quick google search it almost always comes up in dictionaries that it is an adverb of the word "prove"). I agree with the part about renaming it because exactly of the fact that it has been thrown around too much and has not been taken seriously by casinos.

Probably, the best thing to do is the CGF should create it's own branding that would specifically say that it has been reviewed by CGF and that brand means like a certified seal of authenticity of sorts. Then this should be verifiable as well in the CGF website probably through a list of casinos that CGF has given its seal of approval.

I think 'provably' is slightly confusing because it looks and sounds too similar to 'probably' (which isn't good) and people are often not sure how it's even pronounced. It's obviously pronounced 'proove-ably' but I often hear people say it as prov-ably which just leads to confusion (because what the hell is prov-ably?  ;D).

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/provably

I think a rebranding would be helpful but you could just start referring to it as provably fair / true fairness or verifiably fair etc and see if one of them catches on along with provably or if its use even surpasses that of provably. If this foundation pushes one of them I soon think the phrase would catch on and could become a mark of quality/trust.

Provably is was likely coined to make full use of the "prove" word, maybe. Can really say for sure. Most of the links I found on google just related it to the word "prove", I can't really find any real reference to it being an actual word though.

I would still push for the CGF to have its own brand or seal of approval. I believe this is a revolutionary move for the gambling industry and we should move away from the past so we can move to a better future for gambling. And having a rebranded way of marking a website as truly fair, is something, which I believe, is mandatory. Imagine that you can go to a gambling site and truly trust the seals you see on the website. Unlike what we see right now, that every gambling site throws the "provably fair" seal around like it's nothing.

I hope to hear from the lead members of CGF to be honest, and know their opinion on it.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on January 19, 2018, 02:28:04 AM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.

I think "verifiable fairness", is the most descriptive. But the term "provably fair" is so well established that I don't think there's much upside in rebranding it.

Yeah, it has been thrown around in almost every casino I've been since I started gambling with cryptocurrencies. However, I would agree with oracleongoodbye here (though not about the word "provably" since I can't really find any truth that it is not a word because from a quick google search it almost always comes up in dictionaries that it is an adverb of the word "prove"). I agree with the part about renaming it because exactly of the fact that it has been thrown around too much and has not been taken seriously by casinos.

Probably, the best thing to do is the CGF should create it's own branding that would specifically say that it has been reviewed by CGF and that brand means like a certified seal of authenticity of sorts. Then this should be verifiable as well in the CGF website probably through a list of casinos that CGF has given its seal of approval.

I think 'provably' is slightly confusing because it looks and sounds too similar to 'probably' (which isn't good) and people are often not sure how it's even pronounced. It's obviously pronounced 'proove-ably' but I often hear people say it as prov-ably which just leads to confusion (because what the hell is prov-ably?  ;D).

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/provably

I think a rebranding would be helpful but you could just start referring to it as provably fair / true fairness or verifiably fair etc and see if one of them catches on along with provably or if its use even surpasses that of provably. If this foundation pushes one of them I soon think the phrase would catch on and could become a mark of quality/trust.

Provably is was likely coined to make full use of the "prove" word, maybe. Can really say for sure. Most of the links I found on google just related it to the word "prove", I can't really find any real reference to it being an actual word though.

I would still push for the CGF to have its own brand or seal of approval. I believe this is a revolutionary move for the gambling industry and we should move away from the past so we can move to a better future for gambling. And having a rebranded way of marking a website as truly fair, is something, which I believe, is mandatory. Imagine that you can go to a gambling site and truly trust the seals you see on the website. Unlike what we see right now, that every gambling site throws the "provably fair" seal around like it's nothing.

I hope to hear from the lead members of CGF to be honest, and know their opinion on it.

Every site that has been reviewed and aproved by CGF has the seal in their footer.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on January 19, 2018, 06:23:48 AM
I think provably fair should be renamed to something like "True Fairness" or "Verify Fairness". Provably is barely even a word in my opinion.

I think "verifiable fairness", is the most descriptive. But the term "provably fair" is so well established that I don't think there's much upside in rebranding it.

Yeah, it has been thrown around in almost every casino I've been since I started gambling with cryptocurrencies. However, I would agree with oracleongoodbye here (though not about the word "provably" since I can't really find any truth that it is not a word because from a quick google search it almost always comes up in dictionaries that it is an adverb of the word "prove"). I agree with the part about renaming it because exactly of the fact that it has been thrown around too much and has not been taken seriously by casinos.

Probably, the best thing to do is the CGF should create it's own branding that would specifically say that it has been reviewed by CGF and that brand means like a certified seal of authenticity of sorts. Then this should be verifiable as well in the CGF website probably through a list of casinos that CGF has given its seal of approval.

I think 'provably' is slightly confusing because it looks and sounds too similar to 'probably' (which isn't good) and people are often not sure how it's even pronounced. It's obviously pronounced 'proove-ably' but I often hear people say it as prov-ably which just leads to confusion (because what the hell is prov-ably?  ;D).

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/provably

I think a rebranding would be helpful but you could just start referring to it as provably fair / true fairness or verifiably fair etc and see if one of them catches on along with provably or if its use even surpasses that of provably. If this foundation pushes one of them I soon think the phrase would catch on and could become a mark of quality/trust.

Provably is was likely coined to make full use of the "prove" word, maybe. Can really say for sure. Most of the links I found on google just related it to the word "prove", I can't really find any real reference to it being an actual word though.

I would still push for the CGF to have its own brand or seal of approval. I believe this is a revolutionary move for the gambling industry and we should move away from the past so we can move to a better future for gambling. And having a rebranded way of marking a website as truly fair, is something, which I believe, is mandatory. Imagine that you can go to a gambling site and truly trust the seals you see on the website. Unlike what we see right now, that every gambling site throws the "provably fair" seal around like it's nothing.

I hope to hear from the lead members of CGF to be honest, and know their opinion on it.

Every site that has been reviewed and aproved by CGF has the seal in their footer.

Oh cool, I just realized when you said there was such a seal. Then I got really no other complains about the seal.

However, from the other thread I've replied to, I would like now to push for CGF to disclose who the members of the committee that reviews the gambling sites. It is paramount importance for people to know who really are the people that are reviewing these sites. Because if CGF really gets traction and it becomes a trusted review agency, we should really know how the process of review goes and who reviews it. Because if CGF is controlled by just one casino then they will have a control over the industry since they can approve or deny any casino at their will just to eliminate competition.

I'm deeply interested in this project and I do hope it succeeds. Even if this is a centralized entity, it is still good since gamblers trust their crypto to gambling sites and someone should protect the gamblers.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Easternbloc on February 21, 2018, 09:54:20 AM
The concept of the foundation and its efforts to legitimise and clean up the murky crypto-gambling world is to be applauded but how can a foundation that was founded and run by two leading provably fair casino's be considered to be impartial? A true foundation would have an impartial board of trustees who are transparent in their affiliations (and not two in-house people that vet companies based on their own values) as well as a trustee that independently represents the consumer. For all the best intentions in the world this is not how this such be approached. Perhaps if the founders could pass this on to more impartial individuals it would be better but atm this is basically a PR exercise for those casino's.

If they really wanted to push this further they would publish a white paper outlining what should be considered to be fair industry standards and liaise with the community and brands to establish this independently and transparently. This could then act as a Trustpilot type scheme for brands to sign up to.




Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: :wq on February 26, 2018, 04:02:23 AM
The concept of the foundation and its efforts to legitimise and clean up the murky crypto-gambling world is to be applauded but how can a foundation that was founded and run by two leading provably fair casino's be considered to be impartial? A true foundation would have an impartial board of trustees who are transparent in their affiliations (and not two in-house people that vet companies based on their own values) as well as a trustee that independently represents the consumer. For all the best intentions in the world this is not how this such be approached. Perhaps if the founders could pass this on to more impartial individuals it would be better but atm this is basically a PR exercise for those casino's.

If they really wanted to push this further they would publish a white paper outlining what should be considered to be fair industry standards and liaise with the community and brands to establish this independently and transparently. This could then act as a Trustpilot type scheme for brands to sign up to.

That is a very valuable point, and something that I intend to work upon in the coming weeks. The crypto gambling foundation is actually my project and something I created, independent of the casino's it represents. (disclaimer: However I do work with community development for both Stake and Primedice, this project is separate to those operations.) I highly value the time you have taken to express your opinions and concerns, its great to have such valuable feedback.

I am a big advocate of real fairness and its potential in this industry. There is no financial gain being made by this project and hopefully when properly established we can look at building a board of trustees who can transparently evaluate the provably fair algorithms on all the online gambling sites.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Pif on March 02, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
The concept of the foundation and its efforts to legitimise and clean up the murky crypto-gambling world is to be applauded but how can a foundation that was founded and run by two leading provably fair casino's be considered to be impartial? A true foundation would have an impartial board of trustees who are transparent in their affiliations (and not two in-house people that vet companies based on their own values) as well as a trustee that independently represents the consumer. For all the best intentions in the world this is not how this such be approached. Perhaps if the founders could pass this on to more impartial individuals it would be better but atm this is basically a PR exercise for those casino's.

If they really wanted to push this further they would publish a white paper outlining what should be considered to be fair industry standards and liaise with the community and brands to establish this independently and transparently. This could then act as a Trustpilot type scheme for brands to sign up to.




Unfortunately I have no sendable merit points otherwise I'dhave merited your well written and valuable concern.
By the way, just to be clear I completely appreciate Crypto Gambling Foundation purposes.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 02, 2018, 03:51:37 PM
The concept of the foundation and its efforts to legitimise and clean up the murky crypto-gambling world is to be applauded but how can a foundation that was founded and run by two leading provably fair casino's be considered to be impartial? A true foundation would have an impartial board of trustees who are transparent in their affiliations (and not two in-house people that vet companies based on their own values) as well as a trustee that independently represents the consumer. For all the best intentions in the world this is not how this such be approached. Perhaps if the founders could pass this on to more impartial individuals it would be better but atm this is basically a PR exercise for those casino's.

If they really wanted to push this further they would publish a white paper outlining what should be considered to be fair industry standards and liaise with the community and brands to establish this independently and transparently. This could then act as a Trustpilot type scheme for brands to sign up to.
Very good points and Game Protect could be the trustee that independently represents the consumer.

Unfortunately, both Primedice and Stake pay for a Curacao fake license and assist the Curacao license scam 1668/JAZ, sub-licenses have no legal basis! (https://game-protect.com/curacao-license-scam-1668jaz/)

validator.curacao-egaming.com/licenses/domain?domain=primedice.com

validator.curacao-egaming.com/licenses/domain?domain=stake.com

The idea of a crypto gambling foundation is good. But at the same time finance organized crime gives a negative aftertaste!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: TwitchySeal on March 02, 2018, 04:31:45 PM
Very good points and Game Protect could be the trustee that independently represents the consumer.
Trustee should be trustworthy though, so clearly it couldn't be Game-Protect.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Pif on March 03, 2018, 01:40:13 PM
Quote from: game-protect link=topic=2178857.msg31421434#msg31421434
Very good points and Krusty the Clown could be the trustee that independently represents the consumer.


Fixed the typo.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on March 03, 2018, 04:25:35 PM
Very good points and Game Protect could be the trustee that independently represents the consumer.
Trustee should be trustworthy though, so clearly it couldn't be Game-Protect.

That is true. Wouldn't be good if that is gameprotect.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 03, 2018, 04:37:09 PM
Very good points and Game Protect could be the trustee that independently represents the consumer.
Trustee should be trustworthy though, so clearly it couldn't be Game-Protect.
You mean a publicly proven blatant liar like you would be trustworthy? As a blatant liar you probably missed that part, but 100s of victims already trust Game Protect and submitted info and documents about their scam.

There is anyway no way Game Protect will cooperate with a foundation that finance organized crime with fees for a Curacao eGaming fake license!

Crypto Gambling Foundation is misleading! It should be called Organized Crime Finance Foundation instead. ;)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 03, 2018, 07:12:19 PM
but 100s of victims already trust Game Protect and submitted info and documents about their scam.
Oh boy, here we go again.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on March 09, 2018, 06:48:37 AM
can anyone reach https://cryptogambling.org


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: LuanX3 on March 09, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
can anyone reach https://cryptogambling.org

I couldn't as well. Probably this was brought about by the recent attack to primedice, maybe this domain was also affected. Let's probably wait for their announcement.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: iluvbitcoins on March 09, 2018, 10:11:53 AM
can anyone reach https://cryptogambling.org

Nope, dead af.

Btw, I never supported banning people, but game-protect is pushing me to change my beliefs  :D


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on March 09, 2018, 12:32:53 PM
thx guys lets wait for the owners to tell us what happened.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on March 10, 2018, 04:39:32 PM
please let us know what happened to the site? will it back up?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: TwitchySeal on March 10, 2018, 05:20:05 PM
please let us know what happened to the site? will it back up?

I was getting 404 error a couple days ago, now I'm getting cloudflare serverside error.  So it seems someone's working on it.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on March 10, 2018, 05:57:32 PM
please let us know what happened to the site? will it back up?

I was getting 404 error a couple days ago, now I'm getting cloudflare serverside error.  So it seems someone's working on it.

thx for the input but I get cloudflare for a few days already. would be sad if this site is gone.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 11, 2018, 12:57:52 AM
can anyone reach https://cryptogambling.org

Nope, dead af.

Btw, I never supported banning people, but game-protect is pushing me to change my beliefs  :D
Beliefs sound familiar with the feedback section! :D


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on March 11, 2018, 01:26:12 AM
The concept of the foundation and its efforts to legitimise and clean up the murky crypto-gambling world is to be applauded but how can a foundation that was founded and run by two leading provably fair casino's be considered to be impartial? A true foundation would have an impartial board of trustees who are transparent in their affiliations (and not two in-house people that vet companies based on their own values) as well as a trustee that independently represents the consumer. For all the best intentions in the world this is not how this such be approached. Perhaps if the founders could pass this on to more impartial individuals it would be better but atm this is basically a PR exercise for those casino's.

If they really wanted to push this further they would publish a white paper outlining what should be considered to be fair industry standards and liaise with the community and brands to establish this independently and transparently. This could then act as a Trustpilot type scheme for brands to sign up to.

That is a very valuable point, and something that I intend to work upon in the coming weeks. The crypto gambling foundation is actually my project and something I created, independent of the casino's it represents. (disclaimer: However I do work with community development for both Stake and Primedice, this project is separate to those operations.) I highly value the time you have taken to express your opinions and concerns, its great to have such valuable feedback.

I am a big advocate of real fairness and its potential in this industry. There is no financial gain being made by this project and hopefully when properly established we can look at building a board of trustees who can transparently evaluate the provably fair algorithms on all the online gambling sites.

This is very much a work-in-progress. We've been incredibly busy with happenings on our websites, our goal isn't to start some sort of monopoly we're really just a group of likeminded individuals who think traditional online casinos are scams and want to do things differently. I don't want this initiative to morph into a for-profit thing (askgamblers), finding a trustee would be difficult but I like the idea. Right now though if we were to do anything controversial it would only be do-able by vote of all the members but as things stand the CGF is here for educational purposes at this point in time and we (PD/stake) cover all expenses for videos/articles etc. We get a ton of emails from people who want to join and we've set the bar at 1+ year of solid operation & significant volume (top 20 crypto casino).


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 11, 2018, 01:50:32 AM
This is very much a work-in-progress. We've been incredibly busy with happenings on our websites, our goal isn't to start some sort of monopoly we're really just a group of likeminded individuals who think traditional online casinos are scams and want to do things differently. I don't want this initiative to morph into a for-profit thing (askgamblers), finding a trustee would be difficult but I like the idea. Right now though if we were to do anything controversial it would only be do-able by vote of all the members but as things stand the CGF is here for educational purposes at this point in time and we (PD/stake) cover all expenses for videos/articles etc. We get a ton of emails from people who want to join and we've set the bar at 1+ year of solid operation & significant volume (top 20 crypto casino).
If you want to educate the community on your expenses, why do you not inform about the Curacao license scam 1668/JAZ, sub-licenses have no legal basis! (https://game-protect.com/curacao-license-scam-1668jaz/) you are financing with 10000s of Euro every year?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on March 11, 2018, 05:12:26 AM
The concept of the foundation and its efforts to legitimise and clean up the murky crypto-gambling world is to be applauded but how can a foundation that was founded and run by two leading provably fair casino's be considered to be impartial? A true foundation would have an impartial board of trustees who are transparent in their affiliations (and not two in-house people that vet companies based on their own values) as well as a trustee that independently represents the consumer. For all the best intentions in the world this is not how this such be approached. Perhaps if the founders could pass this on to more impartial individuals it would be better but atm this is basically a PR exercise for those casino's.

If they really wanted to push this further they would publish a white paper outlining what should be considered to be fair industry standards and liaise with the community and brands to establish this independently and transparently. This could then act as a Trustpilot type scheme for brands to sign up to.

That is a very valuable point, and something that I intend to work upon in the coming weeks. The crypto gambling foundation is actually my project and something I created, independent of the casino's it represents. (disclaimer: However I do work with community development for both Stake and Primedice, this project is separate to those operations.) I highly value the time you have taken to express your opinions and concerns, its great to have such valuable feedback.

I am a big advocate of real fairness and its potential in this industry. There is no financial gain being made by this project and hopefully when properly established we can look at building a board of trustees who can transparently evaluate the provably fair algorithms on all the online gambling sites.

This is very much a work-in-progress. We've been incredibly busy with happenings on our websites, our goal isn't to start some sort of monopoly we're really just a group of likeminded individuals who think traditional online casinos are scams and want to do things differently. I don't want this initiative to morph into a for-profit thing (askgamblers), finding a trustee would be difficult but I like the idea. Right now though if we were to do anything controversial it would only be do-able by vote of all the members but as things stand the CGF is here for educational purposes at this point in time and we (PD/stake) cover all expenses for videos/articles etc. We get a ton of emails from people who want to join and we've set the bar at 1+ year of solid operation & significant volume (top 20 crypto casino).

good to see that the Site is back up.



Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on March 11, 2018, 05:30:08 PM
This is very much a work-in-progress. We've been incredibly busy with happenings on our websites, our goal isn't to start some sort of monopoly we're really just a group of likeminded individuals who think traditional online casinos are scams and want to do things differently. I don't want this initiative to morph into a for-profit thing (askgamblers), finding a trustee would be difficult but I like the idea. Right now though if we were to do anything controversial it would only be do-able by vote of all the members but as things stand the CGF is here for educational purposes at this point in time and we (PD/stake) cover all expenses for videos/articles etc. We get a ton of emails from people who want to join and we've set the bar at 1+ year of solid operation & significant volume (top 20 crypto casino).
If you want to educate the community on your expenses, why do you not inform about the Curacao license scam 1668/JAZ, sub-licenses have no legal basis! (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/style/modern-love-are-bitcoins-more-real-than-boyfriends.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur/) you are financing with 10000s of Euro every year?

Bud, I'd appreciate it if you stopped spamming this all over our threads. I'm only going to answer this once.

PD had been License free since 2013, and has taken more BTC betting volume than any Bitcoin gambling website that discloses stats with no issues. The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us. Curacao license is indeed one of the easiest ones to obtain because Malta, UK, and other jurisdictions require RNG testing and guess what, Provably fair is not "RNG" it's deterministic. As much as you think there is some major conspiracy behind the curacao licenses, all you have is a theory you don't have any actual proof. Regardless of this entire fact, I can't see why you'd try and pick a fight with us or insist that we are no longer legitimate now because we picked up a license. If you have a beef it should be with the licensors not the 1000s of casinos that have obtained this license for various reasons. This primarily feels like just a push towards self promotion for your own affiliation, if you want me to take your opinion seriously remove all the affiliate links from your website and PM me serious proof of your accusations against curacao egaming not just random circumstantial anecdotes.

The truth about gaming licenses is the legal basis of a gaming license pertains to that specific jurisdiction. If you have a UK license for example that allows you to operate in UK Only, this specific license does not mean much to us but we obtained it for the reasons mentioned. Anyone who trusts a gambling website because they are "licensed" is silly because when you sign up to a (traditional) online casino you agree to often iron-clad terms and conditions which legally give the casino the opportunity to mess you over.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Pali on March 11, 2018, 05:42:43 PM
Good idea!


Quote
The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us.

What's the site link and procedure to acquire one?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 11, 2018, 07:09:53 PM
Quoted for the record:

Bud, I'd appreciate it if you stopped spamming this all over our threads. I'm only going to answer this once.

PD had been License free since 2013, and has taken more BTC betting volume than any Bitcoin gambling website that discloses stats with no issues. The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us. Curacao license is indeed one of the easiest ones to obtain because Malta, UK, and other jurisdictions require RNG testing and guess what, Provably fair is not "RNG" it's deterministic. As much as you think there is some major conspiracy behind the curacao licenses, all you have is a theory you don't have any actual proof. Regardless of this entire fact, I can't see why you'd try and pick a fight with us or insist that we are no longer legitimate now because we picked up a license. If you have a beef it should be with the licensors not the 1000s of casinos that have obtained this license for various reasons. This primarily feels like just a push towards self promotion for your own affiliation, if you want me to take your opinion seriously remove all the affiliate links from your website and PM me serious proof of your accusations against curacao egaming not just random circumstantial anecdotes.

The truth about gaming licenses is the legal basis of a gaming license pertains to that specific jurisdiction. If you have a UK license for example that allows you to operate in UK Only, this specific license does not mean much to us but we obtained it for the reasons mentioned. Anyone who trusts a gambling website because they are "licensed" is silly because when you sign up to a (traditional) online casino you agree to often iron-clad terms and conditions which legally give the casino the opportunity to mess you over.



Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 11, 2018, 07:14:05 PM
The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us.
Source: http://www.curacaowebhosting.com/2018/03/10/curacao-gambling-license/

Cost of a gambling license in Curacao

So you are looking for a cheap gambling license? Well look no futher! Curacao is possibly the most affordable gambling jurisdiction inorder to start a gambling business. However, the costs are a bit more than you would probably expect, here is why.
Gambling license requirements:

    Have a local e-zone company
    Licensing approval
    Own physical hardware on the island

As you can see, you don’t just apply for a license, you setup a company then apply for a license, then you must buy hardware (you can not use your $5 hosting accountin the US).

The following are cost estimates:
E-ZONE COSTS:

Setup and maintenance of an e-zone company are:

    EUR5500 – EUR6500 one-time Incorporation fee
    EUR3250 – EUR5250 annual management fee
    EUR500 – EUR1000 monthly administrtion costs

Your first year for corporate costs are going to be in the region of between: EUR14000 – EUR24,000
LICENSING COSTS:

Licensing fees for the online gaming (sub)license are:

    EUR4500 – EUR12000 (annual) license fee (costs vary between providers)
    EUR1000 – (one-time) application fee

Depending on the sub-license provider, you are in for between: EUR5500 – EUR13000 for your first year hosting fees.
HARDWARE COSTS:

You will require hardware on the island in order to satisfy the permanent establishment requirement (PE).

    Server cost: $1200 – $2500 (per server)
    Hosting costs: EUR6000 – EUR12000 / annum

A single server is not going to offer you redundancy, so you will likely want to buy at least three servers.

So as you can see, the real cost of a gambling license is a lot more than just the license application.

In reality, you will be spending at least EUR40,000 per annum in order to satisfy the legal requirements.

While this is a lot cheaper than most other jurisdictions, the costs do add up and they will become higher as online gambling becomes increasingly regulated.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: slaman29 on March 11, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
The truth about gaming licenses is the legal basis of a gaming license pertains to that specific jurisdiction. If you have a UK license for example that allows you to operate in UK Only, this specific license does not mean much to us but we obtained it for the reasons mentioned. Anyone who trusts a gambling website because they are "licensed" is silly because when you sign up to a (traditional) online casino you agree to often iron-clad terms and conditions which legally give the casino the opportunity to mess you over.

Absolutely agree here. At least Stunna is being pretty open about licences being used strictly for marketing - because honestly, that's what most casinos especially with Bitcoin/crypto want, the marketing. Licensing doesn't do any favors for gamblers online, least of all with Bitcoin. Casinos that are centralized require gamblers to trust in them. In general, we've seen over the years how many have indeed messed players over. You can easily google about former casinos with strict licenses that still screwed players when they decided to pack up.

Unless we want to move to decentralized gambling, we have no choice but to trust the people we put our gambling money with. And licencing doesn't tip the scales in anyone's favor, definitely not for players!


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on March 11, 2018, 08:06:30 PM
The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us.
Source: http://www.curacaowebhosting.com/2018/03/10/curacao-gambling-license/

Cost of a gambling license in Curacao

So you are looking for a cheap gambling license? Well look no futher! Curacao is possibly the most affordable gambling jurisdiction inorder to start a gambling business. However, the costs are a bit more than you would probably expect, here is why.
Gambling license requirements:

    Have a local e-zone company
    Licensing approval
    Own physical hardware on the island

As you can see, you don’t just apply for a license, you setup a company then apply for a license, then you must buy hardware (you can not use your $5 hosting accountin the US).

The following are cost estimates:
E-ZONE COSTS:

Setup and maintenance of an e-zone company are:

    EUR5500 – EUR6500 one-time Incorporation fee
    EUR3250 – EUR5250 annual management fee
    EUR500 – EUR1000 monthly administrtion costs

Your first year for corporate costs are going to be in the region of between: EUR14000 – EUR24,000
LICENSING COSTS:

Licensing fees for the online gaming (sub)license are:

    EUR4500 – EUR12000 (annual) license fee (costs vary between providers)
    EUR1000 – (one-time) application fee

Depending on the sub-license provider, you are in for between: EUR5500 – EUR13000 for your first year hosting fees.
HARDWARE COSTS:

You will require hardware on the island in order to satisfy the permanent establishment requirement (PE).

    Server cost: $1200 – $2500 (per server)
    Hosting costs: EUR6000 – EUR12000 / annum

A single server is not going to offer you redundancy, so you will likely want to buy at least three servers.

So as you can see, the real cost of a gambling license is a lot more than just the license application.

In reality, you will be spending at least EUR40,000 per annum in order to satisfy the legal requirements.

While this is a lot cheaper than most other jurisdictions, the costs do add up and they will become higher as online gambling becomes increasingly regulated.

And why exactly are you concerned with our expenses?

If its worth for us for marketing we can spend how much we want on it.

Doesn't change the fact why we got that license and how much we care about it. As much as we did not even post anywhere or promote it in any other way. Doesn't mean anything to us except for what we need it.




Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 11, 2018, 08:35:22 PM
I'm only going to answer this once.
What a mistaka to maka
~
Don't you have dozen unanswered questions in your own thread to answer?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 11, 2018, 09:07:54 PM
The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us.
Source: http://www.curacaowebhosting.com/2018/03/10/curacao-gambling-license/

Cost of a gambling license in Curacao

So you are looking for a cheap gambling license? Well look no futher! Curacao is possibly the most affordable gambling jurisdiction inorder to start a gambling business. However, the costs are a bit more than you would probably expect, here is why.
Gambling license requirements:

    Have a local e-zone company
    Licensing approval
    Own physical hardware on the island

As you can see, you don’t just apply for a license, you setup a company then apply for a license, then you must buy hardware (you can not use your $5 hosting accountin the US).

The following are cost estimates:
E-ZONE COSTS:

Setup and maintenance of an e-zone company are:

    EUR5500 – EUR6500 one-time Incorporation fee
    EUR3250 – EUR5250 annual management fee
    EUR500 – EUR1000 monthly administrtion costs

Your first year for corporate costs are going to be in the region of between: EUR14000 – EUR24,000
LICENSING COSTS:

Licensing fees for the online gaming (sub)license are:

    EUR4500 – EUR12000 (annual) license fee (costs vary between providers)
    EUR1000 – (one-time) application fee

Depending on the sub-license provider, you are in for between: EUR5500 – EUR13000 for your first year hosting fees.
HARDWARE COSTS:

You will require hardware on the island in order to satisfy the permanent establishment requirement (PE).

    Server cost: $1200 – $2500 (per server)
    Hosting costs: EUR6000 – EUR12000 / annum

A single server is not going to offer you redundancy, so you will likely want to buy at least three servers.

So as you can see, the real cost of a gambling license is a lot more than just the license application.

In reality, you will be spending at least EUR40,000 per annum in order to satisfy the legal requirements.

While this is a lot cheaper than most other jurisdictions, the costs do add up and they will become higher as online gambling becomes increasingly regulated.

And why exactly are you concerned with our expenses?

If its worth for us for marketing we can spend how much we want on it.

Doesn't change the fact why we got that license and how much we care about it. As much as we did not even post anywhere or promote it in any other way. Doesn't mean anything to us except for what we need it.
Where did I say I am concerned about your expenses? I have shown how Stunna blatant lies about the Curacao license fees.

If you consider financing organized crime is a good marketing strategy, feel free continue doing so. I just inform the community about your behavior. ;)

No, you have no license! You pay Euro 10000s every year for a fake license!  :D


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on March 11, 2018, 10:52:18 PM
The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us.
Source: http://www.curacaowebhosting.com/2018/03/10/curacao-gambling-license/

Cost of a gambling license in Curacao

So you are looking for a cheap gambling license? Well look no futher! Curacao is possibly the most affordable gambling jurisdiction inorder to start a gambling business. However, the costs are a bit more than you would probably expect, here is why.
Gambling license requirements:

    Have a local e-zone company
    Licensing approval
    Own physical hardware on the island

As you can see, you don’t just apply for a license, you setup a company then apply for a license, then you must buy hardware (you can not use your $5 hosting accountin the US).

The following are cost estimates:
E-ZONE COSTS:

Setup and maintenance of an e-zone company are:

    EUR5500 – EUR6500 one-time Incorporation fee
    EUR3250 – EUR5250 annual management fee
    EUR500 – EUR1000 monthly administrtion costs

Your first year for corporate costs are going to be in the region of between: EUR14000 – EUR24,000
LICENSING COSTS:

Licensing fees for the online gaming (sub)license are:

    EUR4500 – EUR12000 (annual) license fee (costs vary between providers)
    EUR1000 – (one-time) application fee

Depending on the sub-license provider, you are in for between: EUR5500 – EUR13000 for your first year hosting fees.
HARDWARE COSTS:

You will require hardware on the island in order to satisfy the permanent establishment requirement (PE).

    Server cost: $1200 – $2500 (per server)
    Hosting costs: EUR6000 – EUR12000 / annum

A single server is not going to offer you redundancy, so you will likely want to buy at least three servers.

So as you can see, the real cost of a gambling license is a lot more than just the license application.

In reality, you will be spending at least EUR40,000 per annum in order to satisfy the legal requirements.

While this is a lot cheaper than most other jurisdictions, the costs do add up and they will become higher as online gambling becomes increasingly regulated.

And why exactly are you concerned with our expenses?

If its worth for us for marketing we can spend how much we want on it.

Doesn't change the fact why we got that license and how much we care about it. As much as we did not even post anywhere or promote it in any other way. Doesn't mean anything to us except for what we need it.
Where did I say I am concerned about your expenses? I have shown how Stunna blatant lies about the Curacao license fees.

If you consider financing organized crime is a good marketing strategy, feel free continue doing so. I just inform the community about your behavior. ;)

No, you have no license! You pay Euro 10000s every year for a fake license!  :D

You should continue promoting your group of casinos and probably change the description of what gameprotect is all about.

Your trust rating here is great for the "service" that protects players.

Wont continue this argument since reactions to your comments on this forum are pretty clear lately not even worth to bother anymore.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 12, 2018, 12:04:42 AM
You should continue promoting your group of casinos and probably change the description of what gameprotect is all about.
Game Protect will continue offering to Qualify cost free (https://game-protect.com/cost-free/) for our consumer protection service.

To what should I change the description?

 
Your trust rating here is great for the "service" that protects players.
The trust of who did I breach?

Game Protect offers the following service that could lead to recover losses

- Dispute resolution between you and the operators for your Game Protect qualified gaming accounts
    
- Lawyer and civil court proceeding, in case you have a valid claim and we can not reach a resolution
  
- Lawyer and private investigations, if operators embezzle account balances or players act fraudulent

We furthermore have a Warnings list (http://game-protect.com/online-gambling-scams/) that protects players losing money to scams and likely scams.
 

Wont continue this argument since reactions to your comments on this forum are pretty clear lately not even worth to bother anymore.
I have not seen any argument from you, can you please make it bold?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: TwitchySeal on March 12, 2018, 12:21:57 AM
In my experience, any effort trying to engage Game-Protect in a rational conversation is futile.

He has proven himself to not be qualified to provide any legal advice to anyone (even a casual suggestion from him should be ignored)

Unfortunately he has continued to spam deceptive hyperlinks to his shit website all over the place in hopes that someone will click the link and provide him some affiliate revenue.

I recommend everyone ignore him in any thread other than his own and report any post he makes that contains deceptive hyperlinks (see example below)
https://i.gyazo.com/cb4282b5b28ab7dba476434adb95dd22.png


Surely he will respond to this with a bunch of stupid questions.  Just ignore.




Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: thermost on March 14, 2018, 01:06:23 PM
~crap
You have no legal basis.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 14, 2018, 01:10:21 PM
This is very much a work-in-progress. We've been incredibly busy with happenings on our websites, our goal isn't to start some sort of monopoly we're really just a group of likeminded individuals who think traditional online casinos are scams and want to do things differently. I don't want this initiative to morph into a for-profit thing (askgamblers), finding a trustee would be difficult but I like the idea. Right now though if we were to do anything controversial it would only be do-able by vote of all the members but as things stand the CGF is here for educational purposes at this point in time and we (PD/stake) cover all expenses for videos/articles etc. We get a ton of emails from people who want to join and we've set the bar at 1+ year of solid operation & significant volume (top 20 crypto casino).
If you want to educate the community on your expenses, why do you not inform about the Curacao license scam 1668/JAZ, sub-licenses have no legal basis! (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/style/modern-love-are-bitcoins-more-real-than-boyfriends.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur/) you are financing with 10000s of Euro every year?

PD had been License free since 2013, and has taken more BTC betting volume than any Bitcoin gambling website that discloses stats with no issues.
You have stats of how much Bitcoin you have illegally taken? 5 Years is exactly the time frame players can demand their losses back. :)


The curacao license is something that costs near $0 and the reason we obtained it is so we can use google adwords and other advertising networks that require a "license" not to trick players into trusting us.
With a Costa Rica license you can not use google adwords and other advertising networks?

I never said that you pay for a fake license to trick players into trusting you.


Curacao license is indeed one of the easiest ones to obtain because Malta, UK, and other jurisdictions require RNG testing and guess what, Provably fair is not "RNG" it's deterministic.
It is easy to obtain because it is no juridical valid license! Should be easy to understand. ;)


As much as you think there is some major conspiracy behind the curacao licenses, all you have is a theory you don't have any actual proof.
Game Protect (https://game-protect.com) has proof that your claim to operate under the 1668/JAZ license has no legal basis. It is explained here Curacao license scam 1668/JAZ, sub-licenses have no legal basis! (https://game-protect.com/curacao-license-scam-1668jaz/) and I already gave you the link.

Let me know which part you did not understand?

Have you seen the 1668/JAZ license you claim to operate under? Have you seen the sub-license contract?


Regardless of this entire fact, I can't see why you'd try and pick a fight with us or insist that we are no longer legitimate now because we picked up a license.
I missed the fact, can you please quote it?

Neither do I fight with you nor did I say that you are now no longer legitimate because you picked a license.

I inform that you finance organized crime with 10000s Euro every year!

If I wanted to fight with you, I would offer a 100% cashback assistance for the past 5 years for primedice and stake.


If you have a beef it should be with the licensors not the 1000s of casinos that have obtained this license for various reasons.
No, you and all the other casinos finance organized crime that killed the politician leader Helmin Wiels in Curacao!

If the casinos would not pay for a fake license, the licensors would have no business, simple.


This primarily feels like just a push towards self promotion for your own affiliation, if you want me to take your opinion seriously remove all the affiliate links from your website and PM me serious proof of your accusations against curacao egaming not just random circumstantial anecdotes.
Game Protect will neither stop offering to Qualify cost free (https://game-protect.com/cost-free/) for our online gaming consumer protection service nor send you the hard proof that those sub-licenses have no legal basis.

The hard proof that those sub-licenses have no legal basis is worth $100,000s as I can offer a 100% cashback assistance for any of the 1000s casinos.

We can make it unlike easier: If you operate under the 1668/JAZ license, show us your authorization?


The truth about gaming licenses is the legal basis of a gaming license pertains to that specific jurisdiction.
I am not able to understand what you are saying here as the Curacao licensed casinos operate worldwide?

Or did you say that the validity of a Curacao license rely on Curacao laws?


Anyone who trusts a gambling website because they are "licensed" is silly because when you sign up to a (traditional) online casino you agree to often iron-clad terms and conditions which legally give the casino the opportunity to mess you over.
The part you missed is that the civil laws of the jurisdiction where a casino is incorporated always stand above the terms and conditions of the casino. Hence, if a part of the terms and conditions are not in accordance with the local civil laws, then they are simply not valid and a player could enforce his rights at the court.
You have no legal basis.
Is it required?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 17, 2018, 11:51:12 AM
You have stats of how much Bitcoin you have illegally taken? 5 Years is exactly the time frame players can demand their losses back.
You sound like 5 year old kid.
Would you please stop ranting and spamming links to your ridiculous service all around forum?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 17, 2018, 12:41:02 PM
You have stats of how much Bitcoin you have illegally taken? 5 Years is exactly the time frame players can demand their losses back.
You sound like 5 year old kid.
Why?


Would you please stop ranting and spamming links to your ridiculous service all around forum?
Please quote the spamming part?

Definition spamming: "Send the same message indiscriminately to a large number of Internet users."


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 18, 2018, 11:17:46 AM
Would you please stop ranting and spamming links to your ridiculous service all around forum?
Please quote the spamming part?

Definition spamming: "Send the same message indiscriminately to a large number of Internet users."

Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam) says different.

Forum spamming:

Most forum spam consists of links to external sites with the dual goals of increasing search engine visibility in highly competitive advertising domains such as weight loss, pharmaceuticals, gambling, pornography, real estate or loans, and generating more traffic for these commercial websites.
Spam posts may contain anything from a single link to dozens of links.
text content is minimal, usually innocuous and unrelated to the forum's topic


Does this ring a bell?

Read topic again. It is not about gambling license and it is not made so you can spam links to your site to increase visibility on search engines, it is about fairness  ::)


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 18, 2018, 12:36:57 PM
Read topic again. It is not about gambling license and it is not made so you can spam links to your site to increase visibility on search engines, it is about fairness  ::)
If I understood correctly, you as a Fortunejack licensing scam (https://game-protect.com/curacao-license-scam-1668jaz/) spammer claim it is fair to finance organized crime that killed the politician leader Helmin Wiels?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 18, 2018, 05:50:49 PM
Would you please stop ranting and spamming links to your ridiculous service all around forum?
Please quote the spamming part?

Definition spamming: "Send the same message indiscriminately to a large number of Internet users."

Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam) says different.

Forum spamming:

Most forum spam consists of links to external sites with the dual goals of increasing search engine visibility in highly competitive advertising domains such as weight loss, pharmaceuticals, gambling, pornography, real estate or loans, and generating more traffic for these commercial websites.
Spam posts may contain anything from a single link to dozens of links.
text content is minimal, usually innocuous and unrelated to the forum's topic


Does this ring a bell?

Read topic again. It is not about gambling license and it is not made so you can spam links to your site to increase visibility on search engines, it is about fairness  ::)


If I understood correctly, you as a Fortunejack licensing scam (https://game-protect.com/curacao-license-scam-1668jaz/) spammer claim it is fair to finance organized crime that killed the politician leader Helmin Wiels?

If I understood correctly, you as someone who is publicly proven troll claims that provably fairness is organized crime?  ::)

Don't twist my words and stop taking words out of context monkey.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 18, 2018, 06:13:03 PM
Read topic again. It is not about gambling license and it is not made so you can spam links to your site to increase visibility on search engines, it is about fairness  ::)
According to your brain wash theories, online gaming consumer protection service to help players getting informed about scams and assist victims to enforce their rights if scammed is not fair?

Because shady operators like Fortunejack do not consider it as fair that such a service exists and could become expensive for them if held accountable?

And what has paying for a fake license to do with fair gambling for all?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: TwitchySeal on March 19, 2018, 03:17:15 AM
Read topic again. It is not about gambling license and it is not made so you can spam links to your site to increase visibility on search engines, it is about fairness  ::)
According to your brain wash theories, online gaming consumer protection service to help players getting informed about scams and assist victims to enforce their rights if scammed is not fair?

Because shady operators like Fortunejack do not consider it as fair that such a service exists and could become expensive for them if held accountable?

And what has paying for a fake license to do with fair gambling for all?

lol


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Wendigo on March 19, 2018, 07:03:53 AM
https://dogsounds.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tinfoilhat.jpg

Brainwashing transmission from Russia failed.
Recalibrating equipment.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 19, 2018, 10:56:47 PM
Brainwashing transmission from Russia failed.
Recalibrating equipment.
Merit for making me laugh  ;D

~blah~
I bet 1000$ that I have already replied (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2178857.msg32612346#msg32612346) to this.

@Stunna I am curious about something.
Provably fair, at least in my mind means - gambling session with unchanged client seed + unchanged server seed while only nonce changes.
Is this correct?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: RGBKey on March 19, 2018, 11:31:27 PM
@Stunna I am curious about something.
Provably fair, at least in my mind means - gambling session with unchanged client seed + unchanged server seed while only nonce changes.
Is this correct?

Provably fair only means that the user can prove that the game was fair. There could be / are other ways to do this other than the standard client & server seed model (some only work for specific types of games, i.e. lottos). However, what you mentioned is the most common and regarded as better than most because it is much easier to verify.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on March 20, 2018, 12:13:14 PM
Are you also able to show the proof to not be qualified to provide any legal advice?

How can someone clueless like you assess legal things?

Can you please enlighten us and add content to your claims?

In my experience, any effort trying to engage Game-Protect in a rational conversation is futile.

He has proven himself to not be qualified to provide any legal advice to anyone (even a casual suggestion from him should be ignored)

Unfortunately he has continued to spam deceptive hyperlinks to his shit website all over the place in hopes that someone will click the link and provide him some affiliate revenue.

I recommend everyone ignore him in any thread other than his own and report any post he makes that contains deceptive hyperlinks (see example below)
https://i.gyazo.com/cb4282b5b28ab7dba476434adb95dd22.png


Surely he will respond to this with a bunch of stupid questions.  Just ignore.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: tokeweed on March 20, 2018, 12:23:41 PM
@Stunna I am curious about something.
Provably fair, at least in my mind means - gambling session with unchanged client seed + unchanged server seed while only nonce changes.
Is this correct?

Provably fair only means that the user can prove that the game was fair. There could be / are other ways to do this other than the standard client & server seed model (some only work for specific types of games, i.e. lottos). However, what you mentioned is the most common and regarded as better than most because it is much easier to verify.

Can this be done on poker sites, or are some poker sites doing something like it today?  I swear there are times when I def think online poker is rigged.  Yeah yeah, I read everything about how it's not and all that.  But are they provably fair?

...  Yup exactly.  ;D


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: marlboroza on March 20, 2018, 01:48:21 PM
@Stunna I am curious about something.
Provably fair, at least in my mind means - gambling session with unchanged client seed + unchanged server seed while only nonce changes.
Is this correct?

Provably fair only means that the user can prove that the game was fair. There could be / are other ways to do this other than the standard client & server seed model (some only work for specific types of games, i.e. lottos). However, what you mentioned is the most common and regarded as better than most because it is much easier to verify.
Oh, I was thinking about something else. I forget to write it down  :-[

If I use my own client seed and I don't change it for 100K bets, how can I know that casino didn't give me bad(losing) seeds? I know nonce will solve this issue, but there are only few sites which are using that kind of system(primedice, bitsler, stake) and other sites are using only client seed + server seed.
For example, fortunejack and bitvest are using client seed + server seed, and cryptogames use client seed + server seed, but there is option to manually change client seed and nonce but server seed is changing together with nonce and I don't think it should, and there is message " I understand the risks, I want to manually change my client seed". Why is it risky to manually change client seed?  :-\

Is it possible to somehow "inject" bad seeds if gambling site doesn't use nonce?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on April 04, 2018, 09:21:07 AM
@Stunna I am curious about something.
Provably fair, at least in my mind means - gambling session with unchanged client seed + unchanged server seed while only nonce changes.
Is this correct?

Provably fair only means that the user can prove that the game was fair. There could be / are other ways to do this other than the standard client & server seed model (some only work for specific types of games, i.e. lottos). However, what you mentioned is the most common and regarded as better than most because it is much easier to verify.

Can this be done on poker sites, or are some poker sites doing something like it today?  I swear there are times when I def think online poker is rigged.  Yeah yeah, I read everything about how it's not and all that.  But are they provably fair?

...  Yup exactly.  ;D


Provably fair on pvp poker is pretty hard to pull off and as far as i know there are  no poker sites that do that yet.

We are trying to figure it out 😀.

It has to be done in a way so server doesn't know which carda are delth to players nor the face card. And so the players can verify they got the right cards.

So casino would not be able to have insider players which know the cards or to deal good hands for bigger rake.

Kinda hard to do correctly.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Easternbloc on April 04, 2018, 09:40:45 AM
@Stunna I am curious about something.
Provably fair, at least in my mind means - gambling session with unchanged client seed + unchanged server seed while only nonce changes.
Is this correct?

Provably fair only means that the user can prove that the game was fair. There could be / are other ways to do this other than the standard client & server seed model (some only work for specific types of games, i.e. lottos). However, what you mentioned is the most common and regarded as better than most because it is much easier to verify.

Can this be done on poker sites, or are some poker sites doing something like it today?  I swear there are times when I def think online poker is rigged.  Yeah yeah, I read everything about how it's not and all that.  But are they provably fair?

...  Yup exactly.  ;D


Provably fair on pvp poker is pretty hard to pull off and as far as i know there are  no poker sites that do that yet.

We are trying to figure it out 😀.

It has to be done in a way so server doesn't know which carda are delth to players nor the face card. And so the players can verify they got the right cards.

So casino would not be able to have insider players which know the cards or to deal good hands for bigger rake.

Kinda hard to do correctly.

Virtue Poker looks like it would be the first to do this: https://virtue.poker/ (https://virtue.poker/) im normally quite disdainful of the gambling blockchains, as they are generally all full of crap scams but these guys have a fantastic team and good blockchain, cryptographic and poker knowledge. Its a pity that poker is not so popular these days compared to last 20 years.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: cheefbuza on April 04, 2018, 01:45:16 PM
Since there's not much activity on the foundation's forums we just left a message through email and hoping to join the foundation.
We are fully transparent and would like to answer anything that is needed and collab. We are all here for legal and decent gambling culture.

The first blockchain platform to power sports bets via Ethereum smart contracts.
No book, no accounts, no odds. Just P2P bets between fans of sports and crypto.
https://cryptosportz.com/


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: rolleth.io on April 10, 2018, 09:12:12 PM
Hello,
I have sent you an email, but have not received any reply.
I would very much like to join you, how can this be done? ???

My site is rolleth.io
Roullet on Ethereum 100% fair & instant 


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Stunna on April 11, 2018, 02:24:54 AM
Hello,
I have sent you an email, but have not received any reply.
I would very much like to join you, how can this be done? ???

My site is rolleth.io
Roullet on Ethereum 100% fair & instant 

Hey,

Sorry for the lack of reply. Due to high demand mainly from all the ICO's we're only considering well known sites that have operated for over 1 year.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: OddEvenBets.com on April 11, 2018, 03:41:25 AM
Hello,

I want introduce my gamble site.
It's odd/even game with provably fair 100% and house edge 1%.
http://oddevenbets.com

Could I join?

Thanks.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on April 20, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: Luxo42 on April 20, 2018, 07:09:20 PM
I may help. PM me.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on April 21, 2018, 02:07:12 PM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx
Do they not assist you with adding provably fair to your games?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on April 21, 2018, 02:32:35 PM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx
Do they not assist you with adding provably fair to your games?

thank you for the question. until now they did not answer here or PMs if they want to help me or not. even a "No"would be an answer.

@luxo42 offered his help. thx for this offer

actually I was sure they will help me but very disappointed that they did not answer and offering help



Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on April 22, 2018, 11:24:45 AM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx
Do they not assist you with adding provably fair to your games?

thank you for the question. until now they did not answer here or PMs if they want to help me or not. even a "No"would be an answer.

@luxo42 offered his help. thx for this offer

actually I was sure they will help me but very disappointed that they did not answer and offering help
Curious that they are not willing to help you setting up provably fair.

Is it not explained on their Crypto Gambling Foundation forum?

Is it a secret formula?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on April 22, 2018, 11:44:33 AM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx
Do they not assist you with adding provably fair to your games?

thank you for the question. until now they did not answer here or PMs if they want to help me or not. even a "No"would be an answer.

@luxo42 offered his help. thx for this offer

actually I was sure they will help me but very disappointed that they did not answer and offering help
Curious that they are not willing to help you setting up provably fair.

Is it not explained on their Crypto Gambling Foundation forum?

Is it a secret formula?

IMO it is explained there but I have no clue and I am not a dev. that means I need every help I can get and I thought I will get i there. at least to connect me with a dev who could do it against payment


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on April 22, 2018, 11:48:32 AM
Curious that they are not willing to help you setting up provably fair.

Is it not explained on their Crypto Gambling Foundation forum?

Is it a secret formula?

IMO it is explained there but I have no clue and I am not a dev. that means I need every help I can get and I thought I will get i there. at least to connect me with a dev who could do it against payment
Can you please post the link where it is explained on their forum?


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: MICRO on April 23, 2018, 09:39:54 PM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx
Do they not assist you with adding provably fair to your games?

thank you for the question. until now they did not answer here or PMs if they want to help me or not. even a "No"would be an answer.

@luxo42 offered his help. thx for this offer

actually I was sure they will help me but very disappointed that they did not answer and offering help
Curious that they are not willing to help you setting up provably fair.

Is it not explained on their Crypto Gambling Foundation forum?

Is it a secret formula?

IMO it is explained there but I have no clue and I am not a dev. that means I need every help I can get and I thought I will get i there. at least to connect me with a dev who could do it against payment


Maybe its because of your bad reputation here. Also the CGF forum is not very active yet.

I will check it out and see if i can connect you to a developer that can implement provably fair into your game.


Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: JackpotRacer on April 23, 2018, 10:03:45 PM
sorry but I dont get it. why is no one answering? is the idea dead? or only for special user?

my posting was

as I am not sure where to post I will post it also here

I need help with provably fair for one of my games

please check here
https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/ (https://forum.cryptogambling.org/topic/71-who-will-help-me-to-add-provably-fair-to-one-of-my-games/)

thx
Do they not assist you with adding provably fair to your games?

thank you for the question. until now they did not answer here or PMs if they want to help me or not. even a "No"would be an answer.

@luxo42 offered his help. thx for this offer

actually I was sure they will help me but very disappointed that they did not answer and offering help
Curious that they are not willing to help you setting up provably fair.

Is it not explained on their Crypto Gambling Foundation forum?

Is it a secret formula?

IMO it is explained there but I have no clue and I am not a dev. that means I need every help I can get and I thought I will get i there. at least to connect me with a dev who could do it against payment


Maybe its because of your bad reputation here. Also the CGF forum is not very active yet.

I will check it out and see if i can connect you to a developer that can implement provably fair into your game.


sorry? bad reputation? please explain!

if this should be the case then Stunna or Aengus should answer my posting or DM and tell me they don't accept me or my casino or games. oh and I thought we are talking about Provably Fair games

is this a witch hunt?

check my red trust and Moneypot owners red trust then you will see that the Moneypot scammers gave me red trust cause I was pointing the finger to their scam. I am proud to tell you that I was the first who shouted (Moneypot)Scam and even RHavar gave them red trust





Title: Re: ⚖️ Crypto Gambling Foundation ⚖️ - Fair Gambling For All
Post by: game-protect on April 24, 2018, 09:43:29 AM
I still would like to see the link to the forum where it is explained how provably fair works, because I am absolutely clueless in regard to this?