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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: bitsalame on June 24, 2011, 05:34:47 AM



Title: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: bitsalame on June 24, 2011, 05:34:47 AM
I think it is ridiculous to go to pre-hack prices, that is totally arbitrary.
The world kept revolving and the market has recovered in rival sites.
MtGox should also adapt itself to the current market price to be actually fair.

I don't know what you guys here think about that, but I think that would be the fairer option.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: finack on June 24, 2011, 05:36:31 AM
They've said the order book will be cleared, so there won't be a price at all until new bids and asks get posted by people who have logged on since its been back up.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: FreeMoney on June 24, 2011, 05:37:35 AM
They've said the order book will be cleared, so there won't be a price at all until new bids and asks get posted by people who have logged on since its been back up.

OMG, bitcoins will be priceless!


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: wolftaur on June 24, 2011, 05:37:55 AM
The information coming out about orders is basically that the standing orders are all going to be wiped. Which means that the only reference that would really be there for pre-hack prices would be, well, the "Last" thing in the ticker...

Price is gonna be set by where asks and bids cross paths, not by anything Mt.Gox says. They might well post a target as a "starting point" for people, but ... the price is, as always, going to be if someone is willing to sell their coins for what someone is willing to pay for them, and so on.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: Bit_Happy on June 24, 2011, 05:42:40 AM
They've said the order book will be cleared, so there won't be a price at all until new bids and asks get posted by people who have logged on since its been back up.

OMG, bitcoins will be priceless!

+1 You have come with wit, what will you do with it?


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: Valalvax on June 24, 2011, 05:46:22 AM
Also, while I haven't closely monitored the situation, I haven't yet seen MtGox perfectly line up with Tradehill whenever I checked both at the same time (which isn't often, because I think Tradehill has ridiculous fees and it seemed like a pita to get money there)


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: bitsalame on June 24, 2011, 05:58:03 AM
Also, while I haven't closely monitored the situation, I haven't yet seen MtGox perfectly line up with Tradehill whenever I checked both at the same time (which isn't often, because I think Tradehill has ridiculous fees and it seemed like a pita to get money there)

pita?

Btw, I was talking about this announcement:

Quote
Huge Bitcoin sell off due to a compromised account - rollback
 
The bitcoin will be back to around 17.5$/BTC after we rollback all trades that have happened after the huge Bitcoin sale that happened on June 20th near 3:00am (JST).

One account with a lot of coins was compromised and whoever stole it (using a HK based IP to login) first sold all the coins in there, to buy those again just after, and then tried to withdraw the coins. The $1000/day withdraw limit was active for this account and the hacker could only get out with $1000 worth of coins.

Apart from this no account was compromised, and nothing was lost. Due to the large impact this had on the Bitcoin market, we will rollback every trade which happened since the big sale, and ensure this account is secure before opening access again.

This price will be artificial tomorrow when the market opens.
Anyway, I don't see many solutions anyway.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: dayfall on June 24, 2011, 06:01:49 AM
I am going to try to get in first and set a buy order for 0.001 BTC at $2000.  Yep I would pay 2 bucks to have that data point show up.  I am going to try and sell a BTC at $2000 also, if anyone wants to buy.

Think about it, the way Bitcoin is being reported on these days (terribly misrepresented) We might can get them to report that Bitcons are trading for $2000.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: Bit_Happy on June 24, 2011, 06:02:30 AM
Also, while I haven't closely monitored the situation, I haven't yet seen MtGox perfectly line up with Tradehill whenever I checked both at the same time (which isn't often, because I think Tradehill has ridiculous fees and it seemed like a pita to get money there)

pita?

Btw, I was talking about this announcement:

Quote
Huge Bitcoin sell off due to a compromised account - rollback
 
The bitcoin will be back to around 17.5$/BTC after we rollback all trades that have happened after the huge Bitcoin sale that happened on June 20th near 3:00am (JST).

One account with a lot of coins was compromised and whoever stole it (using a HK based IP to login) first sold all the coins in there, to buy those again just after, and then tried to withdraw the coins. The $1000/day withdraw limit was active for this account and the hacker could only get out with $1000 worth of coins.

Apart from this no account was compromised, and nothing was lost. Due to the large impact this had on the Bitcoin market, we will rollback every trade which happened since the big sale, and ensure this account is secure before opening access again.

This price will be artificial tomorrow when the market opens.
Anyway, I don't see many solutions anyway.

That was poorly worded and should have been edited. They really intended to say all the super-cheap purchases are void (roll-back)
When the market finally opens bid/ask will set the price.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: Capitan on June 24, 2011, 06:44:56 AM
Also, while I haven't closely monitored the situation, I haven't yet seen MtGox perfectly line up with Tradehill whenever I checked both at the same time (which isn't often, because I think Tradehill has ridiculous fees and it seemed like a pita to get money there)

pita?

Btw, I was talking about this announcement:

Quote
Huge Bitcoin sell off due to a compromised account - rollback
 
The bitcoin will be back to around 17.5$/BTC after we rollback all trades that have happened after the huge Bitcoin sale that happened on June 20th near 3:00am (JST).

One account with a lot of coins was compromised and whoever stole it (using a HK based IP to login) first sold all the coins in there, to buy those again just after, and then tried to withdraw the coins. The $1000/day withdraw limit was active for this account and the hacker could only get out with $1000 worth of coins.

Apart from this no account was compromised, and nothing was lost. Due to the large impact this had on the Bitcoin market, we will rollback every trade which happened since the big sale, and ensure this account is secure before opening access again.

This price will be artificial tomorrow when the market opens.
Anyway, I don't see many solutions anyway.

The price is set by ask and bid. How can the exchange declare an artificial price. The only bad thing they could do along those lines would be to rollback the order queue back to the state it was in right before the hack/crash. Then you'd still have orders from last week where people were trying to buy and sell around ~17.5. It would suck for them to do that, but I don't think they are. I think I read other people mention that they are clearing the orders queue before going back online.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: CryptoCommodity on June 24, 2011, 06:47:11 AM
It would be interesting if there was a sell order for 424242.42424242@17.5 when the market opens up.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: MrAnderson on June 24, 2011, 06:52:20 AM
I'm getting conflicting stories here.

The official stated start price will be $17.5, why are others saying the price will start at .000001?



Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: CryptoCommodity on June 24, 2011, 06:57:31 AM
There will be no starting price.  The market will set the price by placing buy and sell orders.

I would expect when the market opens the best buy offer you will see is ~$5 and the best sell you will see is ~$20.  The spread will gradually lower until orders begin to be matched.  That will be the new market price.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: dev^ on June 24, 2011, 07:00:21 AM
There will be no starting price.  The market will set the price by placing buy and sell orders.

I would expect when the market opens the best buy offer you will see is ~$5 and the best sell you will see is ~$20.  The spread will gradually lower until orders begin to be matched.  That will be the new market price.

This.
And nothing other, this actually says how (any) market works. Mt. Gox can't give any price (in an auction model), they just can set the initial ticker value (but this says nothing).


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: FreeMoney on June 24, 2011, 07:14:34 AM
The LAST price will be 17.50. The next trade will happen at whatever price two people agree.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: dooglus on June 24, 2011, 07:29:46 AM
I am going to try to get in first and set a buy order for 0.001 BTC at $2000.  Yep I would pay 2 bucks to have that data point show up.  I am going to try and sell a BTC at $2000 also, if anyone wants to buy.

That wouldn't be the most anyone has paid for bitcoins.  This morning someone paid $8000/BTC on https://britcoin.co.uk/ .  Check the chart: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/britcoinGBP#rg60zczsg2011-06-20zeg2011-06-23ztgSzm1g10zm2g25 (5000 GBP = 8000 USD, pretty much).

From the Britcoin trades API:

Code:
{"date": 1308779642, "price": 10.1702, "amount": 0.94},
 {"date": 1308780181, "price": 10.2041, "amount": 0.00599566},
 {"date": 1308780782, "price": 500.0000, "amount": 0.01},
 {"date": 1308780841, "price": 5000.0000, "amount": 0.001},
 {"date": 1308781381, "price": 10.2041, "amount": 0.48400469},
 {"date": 1308781441, "price": 10.0000, "amount": 0.8},


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: dayfall on June 24, 2011, 03:23:43 PM
I am going to try to get in first and set a buy order for 0.001 BTC at $2000.

Wait, my idea won't work.  Ok, we just need to start trading at $30/BTC.  Yeah, I'll put in an order $3 for 0.1 BTC.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: FooDSt4mP on June 24, 2011, 03:46:04 PM
Technically they could set the price by plopping down a huge bid and a huge ask with a narrow spread.  They have proven they have the funds to do this.  However, if they did this at a price significantly different from the other exchanges, people would quickly take advantage of the arbitrage opportunity.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: imperi on June 24, 2011, 03:48:18 PM
Bitcoins will have an undefined value, which is equal to infinity by the way.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: hazek on June 24, 2011, 03:49:09 PM
MagicTux has said he will not enforce anything. People will be free to place bids and asks as they please before the trading resumes.


Title: Re: MTGox: Not previous pre-hack price, do it at current price
Post by: relative on June 25, 2011, 02:49:12 PM
all they can do is set the last price at 17, which makes sense because that was the last price before the rollback.

OMG, bitcoins will be priceless!

priceless or worthless?