Bitcoin Forum

Fallen 0.30 in first 10 min. of Gox openning. Look out below folks.

EDIT: Live chart: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/thUSD.html.






Tradehill: http://www.tradehill.com/?r=TH-R15761

So far, so random.  I'm watching TH and the line is flat.

You're talking about a market that can have 2-dollar or more daily swings.

But I guess its just another troll thread, carry on.

Down .90 in 20 min. This is not a linear trend.  :-\

The scale is just wrong.

WTF are you all talking about?  In my browser it says trading is still closed and volume is 0.

Oh duh, never mind, you're talking about trading on the hill...

The mt gox bitcoins can't be there yet. There needs to be two sets of confirmations before they'll show.

I suppose someone clever could have withdrawn from gox to their trade hill deposit account, and then they'll only have to wait for one set of confirmations, but we are still about 45 minutes away from anyone managing to get those sold.

Bring it on... I've got a TH buy order sitting on about 12.5 in case it drops hard while I'm asleep.

TH 5 day

https://i.imgur.com/lk9u3.png

Not low enough.

that was ONE trade btw. (unless 2 people timed it exactly)

Yeah. Opening Gox at 17.5 is a joke. I'd be surprised if there were bids at 15. Only ~250 coins between here and there on TH.

They can set the market to any price they'd like and it makes absolutely no difference.  Price doesn't move unless there's a transaction.  MtGox isn't setting the price, the market will quickly fix it.

Price means "Last Price" so to be accurate they should set it at 17.5 since that was their last valid price.  It won't matter.

Tradehill Last: 16.50

*yawn*

Quite right. Though it looks like some large player has been aiming for it for the last 36 hours.

Movement at TH is thus far only noise, and maybe anticipation of the influx of cash.  Let's see what happens in the next hour.

everyone just cashing out from mtgox...
lets see how the site will be once the rush is over and everyone has cashed out

it looks like there is trading going on right now on gox, if you watch the chart.  I cant make any though, says they are testing.
http://mtgoxlive.com/

mtgoxlive has tracked TH for the last few days.

Thanks good to know

Yeah, I'll bet you're sleeping right through this whole episode, Trader.

The plummet continues... >10% fall from today's high since Mt. Gox opened. No news to break the trend in sight, many holders traumatized by the hack.

TH right now
https://i.imgur.com/McqHT.png

I think lots of BTC liberated from MtGox today, but not as many dollars. So for now, the supply and demand leans towards more BTC than dollars.

Mt. Gox hack is only the surface of the problem right now....some fundamental problems (ie. lack of recourse to criminal activity) with the currency are contributing to the sell-off.

If you look at the upwards trend for the last days, its clear that the selloff of the last hours has to do with MtGox opening.

obviously as that's where the funds were trapped.

Don't forget half-assed theories. Those are completely related, too.

I miss the old forums, before the wave of hysteria washed over it.

Yes . . . but setting the price so high, for right now, limits the number of BTC that can be withdrawn.

yay an uptick!

"Fundamental problems" does not account for the upwards trend of the last days.

Attempting to reach parity with Gox' 17.5 at the purported starting times does, however.

There is so much money locked up since Mt Gox went down that the last few days are mostly irrelevant.  Tradehill was less well known and most of the people in there right now are techie types.  Mt. Gox did have some investor types because of its higher profile and these people are going to price systemic risk into their trading. 

Nope - withdraw limit of BTC seems to have been manually set to 100 BTC for everyone.

No one will fall for your trolling.

Just stating the facts mam.

Is that so? If so, I stand corrected. Is that a temporary thing or what? Will we go back to the $1,000 standard once MtGox launches and a new trading price is established?

No facts, just inaccurate numbers and speculation.

Todays high at Tradehill was 16.50. The rate has not even been close to the 14,85 required for a 10% fall.

Stop trolling!

Mt. Gox will be shortly irrelevant so I'm not sure the point of your question.  Only a fool would trust their money to Mt. Gox.

For someone representing an economist you suck at answering simple economics questions.

Mt Gox does not exist on an island.  The scenario you are implying is not reality.

+1

In that case the price is either zero or >>>30 on Mt. Gox. In that case people buy or sell, transfer to wallet, and go to a real exchange.

The point is, the Mt. Gox debacle is a large bucket of cold water dumped on an overheated engine.

If you have hundreds of BTC on Mt. Gox and you haven't already transferred 100 and sold them on Trade Hill at reasonable prices, and you don't know who the fool is, it's you.

I love how everyone is calling the demise of Mt Gox. Too bad none of them are man enough to eat the humble pie when it's time.

If Mt Gox does not become irrelevant, it only speaks to the stupidity of its users.

Yeah, because no corporation, bank, or any other institution has ever been compromised or done anything to lose the trust of their users and successfully recovered to come back and be stronger than they were before. They all went straight out of business and all their customers and investors were "stupid for staying with them". Good point.

Could you point out a bank that has had all of its clients' usernames and passwords released to the public?

This is the most insightful post in this thread.

Here are a few things to think about:

1) It's a LOT easier for people to SELL Bitcoins now than to buy them.  (If you had Dollars and Bitcoins tied up in Mt. Gox, you could move your Bitcoins in minutes, but Dollars can't be quickly and easily transferred.  I guess I'd have to take it to Dwolla and then to TradeHill.  Sounds hard and a lengthy process.)

2) If there was a run on withdraws at Mt. Gox, you'd probably see it in the BlockExplorer.  But the 424,242 BTC that they moved the other day haven't been touched.


A few people are selling.  Tomorrow cash will free up, and a few people will be buying.  It'll all sort out over time.  And you can probably make a few bucks buying them cheaply today.

this... reminds me of the Ultimate Bet/Absolute Poker 'superuser' scandal in which they had admins secretly playing in 'god mode' able to see everyone's cards, and siphoned millions of dollars out of the games. Yet people still play there to this day

No bitcoin institution is trustworthy IMHO. Mt. Gox just happened to illustrate it first by being the largest target.

bank of america and wachovia had like a million accounts compromised about 5 years ago

Probably not a perfect example, but how about
Stolen Fidelity Laptop Contained Info on 196,000 HP Staffers (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DJ9AX8ehgNcJ:www.csoonline.com/article/221833/stolen-fidelity-laptop-contained-info-on-196-000-hp-staffers-updated-+fidelity+hewlett+packard+leaked&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com)

Some of you have pointed out some fairly good examples.  I suppose the situation would be recoverable..............if only the place wasn't just run by 2 kids in Japan!!

Stolen data is one thing. Frozen assets is quite another.

Same lame apples to oranges arguments. Mt Gox is not a bank, quit trying to pick a nuclear option out of a list of generalized examples.

If all that was compromised at my bank was my password, I'd be ecstatic. Who the hell is going to post a password file when they break into a bank? They steal account info, personal info, everything they need to get credit. Just like Citi.

paypal freezes assets whenever they feel like it, hasn't seemed to slow them down

Thx 3 bmp

does anyone know how many bitcoins are still in MtGox?
is there some kind of updated volume sheet/chart?

All you tradehill monkey spammers are pathetic to put it mildly. If i was admin here Id ban it by now. Other than that, bitcoin is trading well within its usual daily swings.

No exchange that I know of in existence posts how much money and trade item they store.

And yet the 24hour volume keeps getting lower from yesterday...

Also just because YOU chodpaba took all your bitcoins out of mtgox dosen't mean everyone did.

If sticking with mtgox makes me a sucker, than I'm a sucker.  I'd rather trust someone who has dealt with a compromise than someone who is just hoping their security is good enough.  They cockiness of newer users is starting to get very annoying.  They all know how stupid everyone else is, and they ignore reason.  I'm not targeting anyone in particular in this thread with these comments, but I'll be surprised if nobody jumps in to start the name calling.  Obviously, not all new users are part of the problem, but these forums have become much less enjoyable over the past few months.  Let's spend less time insulting each other and try to have a constructive discussion.  Like I said, shit happens and I'd rather put my money with those who know how to use a shovel.

Much less than 2.42 million.  That's the change from MtGox's 48,480.94 BTC being counted multiple times as it moves from address to address.  At the end of the block 46,391.666 BTC remains, so its closer to 2,000 BTC (plus) that actually changed hands in that block.

It's hard to have a constructive discussion when so many people here just blindly believe bitcoins will keep going up and up and away!!

And yet money is based on the belief of its value.....

Oh the irony.

I never made that claim.  I have some modest savings, but I'm prepared to lose it all.  I prefer to use bitcoins for transactions.  I do see a lot of upside potential, but I'm not blind to the inevitable downswings.  I do see your point though.  But after a few more months all the new users will either be burnt or just a bit more rational.  Unfortunately, most of the old hats have retreated from this forum because it has become such a repetitive shitstorm.

Just for the record, I don't think bitcoin is going to zero. There's some figuring out that's got to go on over the next days and weeks about exactly how risky bitcoin is. There's money to be made here.

This is old news, shutting this baby down.