Bitcoin Forum

just saw this on twitter

https://i.imgur.com/4ZUgOtil.png (http://globalforumljd.org/events/2013/061413_currencies.htm)
(click image for link)



Oh man would I love to listen in on that shit!

Things are happening behind closed doors.

notable: it seems they still think about cryptocurrencies as "payment schemes".

it's money, fuckers!

let's unfuck the world!

why people attend the bilderberg protests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxuC-C84vK8

Hmm. What is he doing in a World Bank forum?, and look at what this site thinks of him...
http://bringvarvarahome.org/ernie_allen.php

they can neither spell nor categorize bitcoin correctly. On ed & ethans bitcoins show I heard the IMF suggested to "extend IMF privileges to control bitcoin". wtf?

Gladly we don't have to trust the fsckers to do anything at all.

what's a Bit-Coin?

fuuuck! Probably the IMF and World Bank and FED and Bernanke... these guys are all "MISSING CHILDREN"!

we lost them :-(

Oh look, how convenient:

 "Missing & Exploited Children" - - - > Bitcoin

This is a joke. It has to be... Please, tell me it is!

I'm unsure about this hypothesis.

from the linked "concept note":

Over all I'm positively surprised:




Didn't expect to even see this word on their agenda.

Woot this is great!

I'm unsure about this hypothesis.

"Threats and opportunites" is biz-speak just like "Not ruling anything in or out" is meaningless say-nothing verbiage which has infested the mainstream

mhmm their sponsors alone indicate its going to be all negative. yet i bet they don't realise or mention that more kids go missing due to dollars, euro, yen then what bitcoin could ever be the cause of.

here is the script in short, to save you having to wait for leaked video footage

"bitcoins are bad, ya hear"

They seem to be talking about "Bit-Coin".

lol

noobs

It's something that has wild fluctuations in its "value" (complete with scare quotes).

Not unlike this stuff:

http://dailyreckoning.com/dr-content/uploads/2013/06/DR_06-12-13_Post1.jpg

That would be cool if someone can infiltrate a microphone up there so we can listen and have a good laught   8)

I don't think it will be good news, they will be talking more on how to regulate Bitcoin.

I was looking at the online bios of the speakers. Here's a snippet of possible interest. I think we can predict where this is going.

"But, if your goal is to steal credit cards and launder the proceeds through a virtual world, you most surely can create another digital identity to do so. And that’s the trick for law enforcement: How do we resolve those alternate identities?" - attributed to Jason Thomas, of Thomson Reuters.

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Jason-Thomas-Sr-Analyst-in-3863243.S.49936764

I don't think they will come to any good conclusions with their basic knowleadge on bitcoin

Good find

http://globalforumljd.org/docs/events/061413/061413_agenda.pdf

Good catch :D  I'd missed that.

Mainly because any bilderberg protests are set up for them to find out who to spy on even more. In other words, they are a honeypot to be tagged and spied on.

Decentralize the protests!

Likely the OT from SWOT analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis.  Basically sizing up the competition.

Q&A Session at the world bank:

Is this open to the public?  I couldn't really tell from the flyer unless I missed something obvious....

Considering maybe going if it is.

Wow nice catch!! I am definitely going to tune into that lol :o

Sounds like they are on the fence between bad and good. Like all bureaucrats, they are probably going to see some potential but be afraid to speak out in favor of Bit-Coinz for fear of making their bosses (Big Banks) or constituents (Tax Authorities like the IRS) angry.

Should be illegal to not have this be public.

its a show.

it started 2008.

funny to be in the eye of the hurricane that yet did not really gain traction ...

Spell check did that, I guarantee it.

Think about the children!

More regulatory action will bring more peer's attention.

the main questions to ask.

in the last 4 years how many guns have been bought in african countries using FIAT/GOLD. now how many have been bought using bitcoin.

with silkroad only doing 20mill of transactions in a whole year. yet statistics shows the whole economy does atleast 27mill dollars of transactions PER DAY with a maximum point of 72mill dollars transacted in just one DAY April 15th. does this really show bitcoin as being a illegal activity currency with only 0.25% known crime rate

i don't see any experts or stakeholders of this topic on the list of sponsors, participants or speakers.

this would be a good opportunity for the Bitcoin Foundation to send a lobbyist.

This is not good or bad news.

A discussion by them on Bitcoin was inevitable at some point, so this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. You won't disrupt the world of finance without anyone noticing.

As another pointed out, the fact that the word "opportunities" was used gives me hope for at least a semi-unbiased discussion which more than enough for Bitcoin to shine.

Hopefully they will recognize that a decentralized currency is an inevitably and not just try to keep the lid on it for as long as possible (not long)

yes this is the exact kind of thing i would expect the BF to have got involved in. otherwise they are just their to pay gavin a wage and everyone else listed as BF leaders are useless

Excellent idea. Is there any BF member based in/near Washington?

+1

otherwise:
We can put up a bounty  ;D

+1

It's bad news for the English Commonwealth and the Crowns former colonies maybe. The rest of the world I'm sure couldn't give a shit.

Ok... so I received this letter today... the letter says it's from Bitinnovate but I took it as being from the Elite behind the curtain, if through a somewhat distorted channel.


"We are working to get this service up again as soon as possible. We hope to have an update to our current announcement early next week. https://www.bitinnovate.com/sell-bitcoin-currently-closed/

Apologies that we cant give you more information at the moment. Once our audit is complete we will be in a better position to provide more information regarding this.

Thanks for taking the time to let us know how this has effected you and your ability to use our service. This feedback is much appreciated.


Cheers,"


Ok... so I received this letter... who is it that has stopped this service? Why the auditors of course, who else. Well thanks for nothing Fiat money.

If you ask the question "what is money" you will find the answer... but not from the crooked and the deceitful who comprise the Hegelian dialectic that is plaguing our money

If I can't buy Fiat money with it, I'll buy gold.

the current gold price is not in US dollars, and when we see it rise in terms of BTC the we will truly be free

Again, that's a western mentality. Ever been to Thailand, Vietnam or Russia? I do agree the sponsor is highly suspect but don't see it's reach being as broad as you do.
 

They will post a transcript and audio recording after the event here:
http://globalforumljd.org/events/2013/061413_currencies.htm

Ernie Allen, International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children

What?

the blind talk about colors  ;D

also:


I repeat


why won't anyone ever think of the children  >:(

+1
It is exactly what is going to happen
Terrorism financing, exploited children, the horsemen of the infocalypse are coming

Maybe the recent "first bitcoin baby" was really not the first one?

We need to prepare for a hammer of uninformed biased thought
Someone will need to defend from a biased attack if it happens
Always thinking about the worst case :)

as usual...  :(

Of course who says we can't make sure someone opens them :)
Lol someone in Washington handing out pamphlets at the door he-he

The main question will be "Can we exploit bit-coin?"
If the answer will be yes, we will have mass regulation.

....if the answer will be no.... pack your bags, we'are off!

Washington
Our guest speakers were not mentioned but include two twins :)

unfortunately for us they are two retarded  :D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339324/Bitcoin-baby-Fertility-treatments-paid-digital-currency-California.html
Done


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57585151-38/winklevoss-twins-on-bitcoin-time-to-work-with-the-feds/
Pending :D

"it's time to bend at 90 degrees"
this is how I read their words

Wait it's not public how come it says Q&A I was thinking of driving down too wow.

"if we can save just 1 child by controlling bitcoins, it will be worth it"

im only about 45 minutes from there i should go tommorrow and ask some ppl for loans.

That's where they hand out the updated FAQ talking points memo. Assault rifles stuffed with heroin Child victims of mathematics.

I suspect it's high-level pedophiles. They're often in the highest positions of power from behind the scenes.
See the Jimmy Savile, Marc Dutroux and Pentagon child porn cases.

Also the Franklin Cover-Up. http://www.franklincase.org/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvl6kO1Vo8

https://philjayhan.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/franklin_coverup_ny_times_cover.jpg


Don't forget Jerry Sandusky, who won accolades from the President and from Congressmen for his Second Mile foundation. Satisfied customers!

Anyone going ? If so, take no chance; wear a suit a try to blend in,,,and audio record everything.

Absolutely! Dress like lefty the salesman:

https://i.imgur.com/LXYwLc9l.png

in preparation, watch this vid in which he shows his skill selling invisible things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5cZW65ZG_0

goes something like this:

"hey youuuuu!

"who? me?"

"yesss, youuuuu! How would you like to buy this invisible bitcoin?"

"an INVISIBLE BITCOIN ?!?"

"ssshhhh!" [look around checking if anybody heard it]

"yessss. invisible! bitcoin!"

They will need to install million dollar Bit-Coin scanners at every airport now. I suppose it will be a no-bid contract with Halliburton.

No, THAT suit : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=15S0g8pG6HU#t=38s

I retract my previous suggestion. This is the way to go.

oh gaud, its already beginning:  

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/a-new-virtual-economy-poses-new-challenges-in-fighting-child-pornography-and-child-exploitation-211404651.html

+1

is it because of the story with pedo-links in the blockchain?
i would understand if DEA or something similar sent a guy because of SR.
but i don't get that connection.
it really just screams smear campaign to me.
(this guy simply doesn't fit into that list with all the other financial people)

or he's just arranging the aftershowparty

ok that was fast. just wait for the shitstorm.
phase one: negative media coverage

That's it for me. I'm done. I just flushed all my dollar bills down the toilet because I found out that murder for hire, prostitution and drugs are purchased with dollars more than any other currency. I won't be a part of the dollar system any more!

Want to buy missing children. PM me with offer.

Thanks.

SuperTax on exchanges for conversion of Fiat to BTC or any digital currency will be an easy yet effective regulation for now.
Well the community seems to have that covered, p2p exchange.

Give us something more challenging IMF...

It feels like very few positives can come out of this. It looks like they are going to push a heavily negative stance. Most probably full of political spin.

Another one of the speakers:

I hope they obtained the appropriate rights to use that image. It's one of Casascius's I think?

AKA Credit card security is shit and no one in government or private industry actually gives a damn about protecting identity ownership of the common man.

For buying Pedo-Files

Sad thing is this is from the free to use Pictures of the http://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-for-press page.

So (even if very very little) we helped them in preparing this event.  :-[

That's so weird. "Bitcoin" isn't mentioned anywhere in the entire body. It's either obviously talking about bitcoin and almost purposely trying not to mention it, or it's not talking about bitcoin and there is a PedoCoin from 4chan we're not aware of yet.

Innuendo is more difficult to refute than direct accusations.

http://blog.thomsonreuters.com/index.php/disruptive-technology-at-the-washington-ideas-forum/

he's playing assassin's creed III?
what a way to introduce to disruptive technology.

Do you know what's more awesome? ;D

I'm a little wary of them connecting this to exploited children. That is a classic pretext these days, second only to fear mongering about terrorism.

Well, it's expected. Look at the speakers. They are not policemen. They are not politicians. They are the guys working for those who pull the strings, the core enemies of Bitcoin: the FED and its proxies.

Let them try to link Bitcoin with pedophiles. Like USD is not the official currency in the black market. In any case,  we are ready and waiting. Bitcoin is fearless.

there is some pro bitcoin lobbying going on already.
when they took down LR they had a press conference and towards the end of that press conference they said they are not aiming at btc and they see the opportunities. some of those guys hopefully hold some coins...

Unfortunately also classless and full of get rich quick schemers. We really need a mass adoption quick to level the playing field. It's harder to call bitcoin a "scam that only pot head nerds use" when political figures, movie stars and major businesses are using it too.

Oh damn good point out Can't help but thinking this will be spinned bad

DEMAND OUR PR GROUP!!!!

perhaps i'm a bit too naive here
but watching silicon valley already being involved into the game i'd suggest that
they're going some way between to pretend everything's under control while at the same time not harming these business opportunities too much.
that could at least be an explanation that btc isn't mentioned directly in every article.

edit: or am i wrong about silicon valley being that important?

Yep and behind those closed doors real opinions don't matter

The issue is complex. The global payments market continues to evolve. Technology is changing the very nature of money and has prompted the creation of a new Internet-based financial system. Alternative payment methods and digital currencies are being widely used today. Most of those who use this new financial system are not criminals.

However, this new system is unregulated and has become a preferred venue for the sale of illicit drugs, weapons, and for those who are involved in commercial child sexual exploitation. This virtual economy includes anonymous payment systems, digital currencies, and bulletproof hosting service providers which enable users with the ability to upload, store, and distribute content with little risk.

(Just focusing on the negatives equates to fear mongering)
It can promote terrorism (So can HBC lol)
It can trade porn and drugs (So can money)
Think of the children (Think of all the third world problems it could solve)
Think of the dark net (Silk road is less than 0.1% of trade now I believe)
We must monitor it (Sure just like the CIA watches whatever we do without permission)

Fear begets Fear unfortunately a bad PR campaign can stall something that should be obvious
Bitcoin has a lot more good than bad
But throwing the children card that's just low

On another note
This could be a battle between generations as well (Old System vs New Systems)

Let's forget about speculation for a moment, as well as mining. What do you think is main USE of bitcoin? On what it is being it is being SPENT? Just want to hear your opinion.

Alpaca socks of course... Laced with cocaine, dipped in child porn, and sprinkled in fraudulent investment schemes.

This insight doesn't matter. The media will make the connection "bitcoin" <-> "cp" just as they made the connection "anarchy" <-> "chaos" for example in peoples heads. Doesn't work by using rational thinking.

It's the Dr. Evil version of Bitcoin, just like the ''La-Ser''.

Did we ever learn details of the "pedo-links in the blockchain" story?

Did some kid plant them for lulz?... or was it these guys setting up their "catch"?

The story always seemed odd to me - I couldn't see why any "real" pedo-types would bother fiddling with the blockchain. I still can't.

hmm. Would it be possible to defend Bitcoin by actually inventing PedoCoin and somehow diverting all the smear? "no no, that's 'PedoCoin', not 'Bitcoin'. Those journalists got that wrong".

Year, I always launder those together with my money. Gives them that special touch.

Ok, I'll give you what you want to hear, because I think it's at least partly true: The main area where cryptographic transactions shine (because there is no other solution anywhere near as useful) is online black markets for illegal goods and services.

However please consider: when talking sr, bitcoin is only used for "transmission" and users complain about volatility (they'd rather just have fiat balance on sr).

But bitcoin is also a money and a damn good one, too.

That's the other true part: Bitcoin is being used as a store of wealth.

tldr: it's SPENT on drugs, it's STORED for preservation of wealth. Which of these two makes use of more coins?

I wonder which is used more for illicit activities Cash or Bitcoin?

Danger, Will Robinson.

Please formulate your question more accurately.

They're going to meet to think how much money they're going to invest on bitcoin :D

Someone needs to write up fiat as if it's a new virtual currency in graphical form but only reveal the punchline at the bottom.

There probably is more money laundered into the wall street from delaware companies than with BTC total.

FTFY

Well, Bitcoin was not designed to cure stupidity. If everybody starts thinking Botcoin = Pedocoin, so be it. This experiment would have failed because the world had its brain washed and totally gave up its will for freedom and self-respect.

I don't think it's the case. That kind of attack may slow down Bitcoin, but it wont stop it. The upcoming generation will naturally understand it, and we all know here how much genius and potential this tool has.

You guys must be joking.  If bitcoin had even 1% of black market or "money laundering" (in any meaning you might take from it) the USD/BTC exchange rate would be a factor 10 to 100 times higher.  Do you seriously think silk road is even on the radar of the major importers / dealers?  Leave the forum and get outside a bit. 

Bitcoin will probably be on their radar soon enough. They love cash. And Bitcoin is an order of magnitude superior to its paper counterpart :D

Wat?!

I think the idea of PedoCoin is pretty cool, it sure is better than ButtCoin.

Fine if someone does PedoCoin
Pedobear must be the icon :)

Well get on it then.

I'm holding my abstractcoins they can be turned into pedocoins by will alone XD
If i ever post in that thread lol

I heard you can exchange either of these using nipple.

Nice

LOL  :D

+1  :D

Does anyone know if the outcome from this meeting will be reported or if it's confidential?

In case you missed it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233680.0

Time to merge the 10 threads we have on this?

They are coming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse

More than likely he is going to speak to the fact that virtual currencies are being used to fund human trafficking.  A legitimate concern.

^
This is a different event that was held yesterday at USIP where the Director of Fincen made a speech mentioning bitcoin

This thread is about a forum held at World Bank Headquarters yesterday.

Interestingly, both were co-sponsored by the International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children

This is super funny


but does anyone know how the proceedings are proceeding?

I love how they put "value" in quotation marks when discussing bitcoin, as if this free market voluntary money is not really valuable when compared to the endlessly printed paper and digital fiat money they hold so dear.

The good news is, it doesn't matter what they think or how they decide to respond to any "challenges" posed by bitcoin, they can't stop it and we will all laugh as they try.

Extra irony is courtesy of new-er price fixing revelations: the currency markets are also rigged.

From one of the presentations at the World Bank yesterday.


I think this is a positive although the rest of his presentation is talking about how electronic transactions in general make money laundering easier.

Full presentation here: http://globalforumljd.org/docs/events/061413/061413_ppt_kobar.pdf

This is ultra bullish. Exchanges must comply with AML regulation, that's all.

They will create an ultra complicated regulated exchange policy then somebody will release a decentralized exchanger complete with USDcoins for instant trading which will make this all fall apart.

It might be positive in some way but it's mainly a gross miscategorization of cryptographic money.

what the...


Jerry Britto seems to have hosted this. thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233823.0

http://www.coindesk.com/world-bank-forum-weighs-pros-cons-of-virtual-currencies/

How can he say such a thing?

He either:
- Has no idea what he is talking about
- Somehow tries to protect Bitcoin by talking it smaller then it is
- Blatantly ignores the well researched publication "Virtual Currency Schemes October 2012" by his own expert committee:
http://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

- Is mirepresented by the source I am citing (coindesk)

(you missed one)

It's the same reason why people are even interested in what the World Bank has to say, their opinions are thought to be amongst the most authoritative available

There is a long, long list of people that lose their job and status in a world where Bitcoin is gaining adoption

http://www.thegenesisblock.com/town-hall-discussion-with-gavin-andresen-and-patrick-murck/

Wow - How many people knew this little tidbit?

this is where a guy in the bitcoin foundation patrick Murck. is failing as a bitcoin fanboy..

he is living on the rules of a country that bitcoin is not owned by

bitcoin is not US property or Euro property or British property. so how can a country that does not own bitcoin say that mining is considered MSB..

its not in any countries remit to categorise another economies actions under their own laws.

Fincen can only control and categorise the Dollar....

patrick Murck needs to hand in his resignation letter for this mega boo boo of not understanding bitcoin.

think of it this way. if i made some poker chips would i need a licence. no

if i was hasbro and made monopoly money would i need a licence. no

if i was a world of warcraft player making gold would i need a licence. no

if i was all of these companies/people above and sold coins/paper play money or virtual game tokens for fiat. would i need a licence. Yes (if doing more then $1000 per customer per day, and over 100,000 total income(as that is then classed as a FIAT Business))

Even if it were true that miners would be considered MSBs, I can't see how that would possibly apply if you were mining in a pool. I don't receive newly minted coins for the work I do for a pool... The pool does. They then pay each miner based on their contribution of work. So while I am working for the pool, all I am doing is processing what they are asking me to process. They then pay me for that work.

I guess it could be argued I am still enabling transactions, but in an indirect way. I get paid to solve work for the pool. The pool gets paid for the work, and then they choose to pay me. More like a subcontractor.

I tend to agree with this line of thinking.  If I worked for a company generating physical items with my tools/hands that contributed to a larger product that the company sold for profit then it would be a similar situation.  Maybe they pay me for my work in portions of that larger product.  I can see the company being required to register as a MSB, but the workers??  Seems to be a case of "doing something with computers, so we need to regulate it more heavily than if it was only done in meatspace." Obviously more of a gray area since the product is a type of currency but still...

MSB is a product of US government and Euro government laws.

bitcoin is not owned by them

however a "data miner" that creates items for a FIAT value.,. then that would involve MSB.

i live in england why should english miners have to follow american laws such as what you interpret it to be.

other people in thailand will also ask why should they follow the laws of euro and USA..

now i hope for the 5th time you realise bitcoin is not owned by europe or america. so it does not have to follow those laws

I have to conclude that you people didn't read what I posted or understand what mining does so I'll post the important part alone. I don't usually like doing that because it positions peoples ideas out of context.

Here it is: "since they are enabling transactions for a profit."

It's not the reward that he's talking about. It's relaying transactions which do involve exchange for fiat.

I don't think anyone will argue that Bitcoin is not used in just the USA so you all can stop parroting that over and over. However, the lead dev and, in fact, many of the devs live in the USA. BitInstant and quite a few other big businesses are based in the USA. So, for the sake of argument, let's pretend that we give a shit about how the legal system in the USA is reacting toward Bitcoin. Thank you.

I suppose that would be like saying the mailman is a money transmitter for carrying my checks to the utility company. You can try to interpret what FINCen is trying to say, but they haven't done a very good job of elaborating yet. There isn't any practical way to hold miners accountable for their accounting, so unless they want to be heavy handed and make an example out of someone as seems to be the practice of our land of laws, I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm not worried about it. I stopped mining back when I stopped being able to make at least 3-5 coins a day with my setup and decided to buy coins instead.

I'm amazed that Gavin Andresen and Patrick Murck are using the fear over the new FINCen law and its effect on mining to push their agenda of lobbying Washington on behalf of TBF. The Foundation's agenda is Americentric and only stands to benefit business members in the TBF business core elite (U.S. businesses). By calling attention to the currently illegal nature of mining they are using fear to rally support for their desire to lobby. This will backfire if American support for Bitcoin wanes because miners fear legal repercussions regardless of the unlikelihood of any actual legal action against an individual. Remember, people don't refuse to lie on their taxes because they think the IRS audits 90% of the people. They do it because they want to be sure that if they are one of the 1% that are audited they aren't in trouble.

Because BITCOIN is used to BUY AND SELL CHILDREN and WHY WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!??!11

You are confusing it with paedocoin after the hard fork with humantrafficoin. Mind your altcoins, Sir!

lol - Those are coming right after Sexcoin and Vaginacoin.

Oh fuck. We're fucked.

for those in america.. please actually give a shit about any bitcoin business which also deals with FIAT. EG Eclipse mining pool pays out in fiat. bitpay pays out in FIAT
but dont worry about bitcoin businesses that only handle bitcoin EG solo mining, bitcoin QT. and other pools services that only hand bitcoin.

now that the separation between what businesses should worry about government law. a hopeful bit of peace and calm rational thinking should happen



in the UK financial regulations it has been highlighted that the mail service although they do transfer money, have been given special circumstances to be exempt from requiring a licence.
the same i believe has happened in most regulated countries.

EDIT: indeed fincen exempts the us postal service from needing a licence
http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/definitions/exceptions.html

I have an idea. Let's turn the tables on FINCen.

Since they have such a difficult time elaborating, let's help them. Besides, it's inevitable, so let's accelerate the process. The TBF could sit down side-by-side with them drafting what needs to be drafted, allowing FINCen to take it to any direction they desire. Once completed, we'll know exactly what we have to do on our part.

I think FINCen already has what they want - regulations that are so vague they can swing the hammer in any direction and hit something.

This would help Bitcoin and Bitcoin-projects a lot.
Yes, this would be stuff I (would have) expect (-ed) TBF to work on.

Ente