Bitcoin Forum

Alternate cryptocurrencies => Announcements (Altcoins) => Topic started by: Aegis on June 14, 2013, 04:14:02 AM



Title: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Aegis on June 14, 2013, 04:14:02 AM
This is the Main Devcoin thread. The following are popular devcoin links:

ASCMDVCPT - ASICMiner Devcoin  Pass Through (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196217.msg2039800#msg2039800)
Buy Computer/Mining Parts with Devcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189317.0)
NEW! RapidBalls DVC Lotto (http://dvc.rapidballs.eu)
NEW! Buy Amazon Giftcards with Devcoin (http://dvc4giftcards.us/store.html)
NEW! Buy Books With Devcoin (https://andarazoroflove.org/shop/)
Devcoin Advertising Campaign (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_advertising_campaign)
Earn Devcoins by Writing (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing)
Free DVC! Devcoin Faucet Beta Test (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191553.0)
Free Devcoin Faucet 20DVC per person! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0)
Help with Setting Up a Devcoin Wallet - Ya I'm a Noob (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154568)
IRC Channel: #devcoin on freenode.net (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=devcoin)
Official Site (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin)
Devcoin Bounty Page (http://http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now)
Devcoin Escrow Service (http://www.KoolioEscrow.com)
Devcoin Talk Forums (http://devcointalk.org)

DeVCoin (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin) is an ethically inspired project based on the Bitcoin cryptocurrency and was created to help fund open source projects created by writers, artists, and software developers.

Participants in the DeVCoin economy earn DeVCoins in proportion to their project development. Writers earn devcoins by writing (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing), developers earn bitcoins by developing, Marketers earn devcoins by marketing (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing), and Administrators earn devcoins by applying their time and effort to help organize the DevCoin project.

Hopefully DeVCoin will eventually fund all types of developers including hardware developers, graphic artists, musicians, and filmmakers.

Download instructions are at:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#download

The number of devcoins offered is large because the generation is fifty thousand per block, one thousand times the initial bitcoin generation rate. Devcoins can be traded at:
https://vps.vircurex.com/welcome/index?base=dvc&alt=btc

Besides bounties, the remainder of the 90% of generation is going to the open source developers on the bitcoin donation list:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/bitcoinshare.html

and to the open source developers who are developing other stuff on the devcoin share list:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devcoinshare.html

To get on a donation list to receive shares of devcoin, an open source developer should message the share administrator (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=91796) or post in this thread. For more information on developer shares, see the devtome page (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#developer).


The developers on the bitcoin donation list can see their devcoins by running a devcoin client and importing their bitcoin donation key into devcoin. One way of importing that key is by following the README.txt instructions for the modified version of bitcoin tools which incorporates Matt Giuca's privkeyimport:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/bitcointools

They could also use Jackjack's pywallet:
https://github.com/jackjack-jj/pywallet

the instructions for which are in the Pywallet section at the bottom of the post:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg432697#msg432697


Title: Re: Not Replying to DVC Spam Posts
Post by: acs26 on June 14, 2013, 05:00:56 AM
As we have a new thread I would like to suggest that we keep it civil (as we do) even when silly ol' trolls come along.

Also if the Devcoiners could not reply to other threads that silly ol' trolls are on, they won't rise and get read by others.

Obviously some one is threatened by Devcoin or wants to replace it. Seeing as how the last silly ol' troll had advertising saying he'd promote new coins, maybe he was hired. Whatever. I think we should take it as a compliment that Devcoin and Devtome have something unique, as all can contribute and all can benefit.

I do agree with being civil.

However, it seemed more like a attack on Fin Shaggy, though both reasons seem valid. He was talking about DevCoin and competition, so that's also valid.


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 05:10:07 AM
As we have a new thread I would like to suggest that we keep it civil (as we do) even when silly ol' trolls come along.

Also if the Devcoiners could not reply to other threads that silly ol' trolls are on, they won't rise and get read by others.

Obviously some one is threatened by Devcoin or wants to replace it. Seeing as how the last silly ol' troll had advertising saying he'd promote new coins, maybe he was hired. Whatever. I think we should take it as a compliment that Devcoin and Devtome have something unique, as all can contribute and all can benefit.

I do agree with being civil.

However, it seemed more like a attack on Fin Shaggy, though both reasons seem valid. He was talking about DevCoin and competition, so that's also valid.

People are against finshaggy due to the whole "bitcoin town" idea. Unrelated to DVC.

Posting here so I can watch the thread!


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: emfox on June 14, 2013, 05:10:45 AM
So here we have the last offical thread?

Edit:

Do we have any redirection method when new people happen to msg or ask the account "Aegis" some devcoin questions?

also, could we just lock all the 3 other devcoin threads, and simply change the tilte of this thread to "DevCoin" ? it looks puzzled with the word "Aegis" at the tile.


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: jasinlee on June 14, 2013, 05:12:11 AM
We are making an explanation video for Devcoin as a whole.
We'll make an animation video with an voice over. (Kinda like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo )
Do we have a final devcoin logo to use that is voted upon? Or can we push that vote up to now if possible.

Needs Clarification:
  • Marticps does the animation, but needs a script, if someone is proficient at script writing please stand up.
    If someone already started a script who is it so we can mark you down.
  • There is a small bounty available for producing a video, but considering that the rules dont really allow for expanding on it, we are asking for pledged donations for marticps as this is a monumental task and very important step to building up devcoin.
  • There was not a certain date set for the video to be produced, but I am sure the bitcoin education site would like to have it sooner rather than later.
    I am planning on doing the voice over for free for the video.


Any comments please discuss.

Only a few points:
The video should be about 15 minutes. I find it maybe too long.
My skills can't do something as the video jasinlee posted, don't expect that please. I try to do something simple but pretty (https://mega.co.nz/#!Zp8TBCSQ!HsgP-z2rdA3rzy0c28TP20K7b6NOdmgbsb46p4QfHbw (Flash required, I hope fonts are embedded)).
I will do the animation in function of the script. It'd be better to record the off-voice before or to add timing at the script, in order to make the video and the audio fit in a proper way.

Thanks

Anyone able to write the script as a template for us as a guide that we can modify into the 15 minutes requested?


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 05:12:46 AM
So here we have the last offical thread?


I hope so. All this bouncing around is making me nauseous, XD


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: Aegis on June 14, 2013, 05:24:45 AM
So here we have the last offical thread?

Edit:

Do we have any redirection method when new people happen to msg or ask the account "Aegis" some devcoin questions?

also, could we just lock all the 3 other devcoin threads, and simply change the tilte of this thread to "DevCoin" ? it looks puzzled with the word "Aegis" at the tile.

1.) This is indeed the official thread.

3.) Unthinkingbit is going to lock his, if he already hasn't. The other DevCoin threads should be locked.

4.) I'm not sure about putting Aegis out of the title, but I will try to allow it to make sense. (Probably by saying, 'Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread')


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 05:32:08 AM
Flash is dying fast. I don't bother installing the old versions that do work because already I get warnings that they do not plan to have any new versions work, so I might as well just get used to the fact that flash is just another walled garden I not only do not want anything to do with but also could not have anything to do with even if I wanted to because its that they don't want me in there not that I wouldn't've continued to grudgingly install their stupid proprietary crap from "network effects" unwashed-masses-pressure if they continued to make it actually work.

TL;DR: Flash is not going to be working on Linux going forward, so no one on Linux is likely to bother installing some long out of date version of a proprietary viewer just to view some adumentary...

Surely there must be some free open source animation system by now?

I would even argue that it is totally inappropriate, even undermining of DeVCoin principles, to be using some non open source crap to make our videos. It is a kind of misrepresentation even maybe, or at the least it implies that we too agree that free open source software is unsuitable for use for real world applications such as educational videos...

FOR SURE WE CANNOT PAY BOUNTY ON IT, RIGHT?

The entire content becomes non free-open-source by being unusable without a proprietary viewer???

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on June 14, 2013, 05:38:54 AM
So here we have the last offical thread?

Edit:

Do we have any redirection method when new people happen to msg or ask the account "Aegis" some devcoin questions?

also, could we just lock all the 3 other devcoin threads, and simply change the tilte of this thread to "DevCoin" ? it looks puzzled with the word "Aegis" at the tile.

1.) This is indeed the official thread.

3.) Unthinkingbit is going to lock his, if he already hasn't. The other DevCoin threads should be locked.

4.) I'm not sure about putting Aegis out of the title, but I will try to allow it to make sense. (Probably by saying, 'Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread')

What does Aegis have to do with?  Isn't that from some Greek myth? 

But I agree with a couple other have said here.  The last 2 days were weird.  First one troll and then a sudden attack on finshaggy which made no sense and as soon as I jumped in to defend him the 2 or 3 guys attacking fin dissapeared not offering any kind of rebuttal.  It seemed so coordinated. 

Not sure if they wanted to eliminate a high earner so they would have more shares for themselves or if this was an attack on devcoin and fin is one of our best promoters but we have to watch out for stuff like this and stand up for each other.  I was surprised I was the only one who stepped in, and after I did a couple other guys did too.

We can't let one guy with multiple aliases come in here and wreck this place. 


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jasinlee on June 14, 2013, 06:32:35 AM
Flash is dying fast. I don't bother installing the old versions that do work because already I get warnings that they do not plan to have any new versions work, so I might as well just get used to the fact that flash is just another walled garden I not only do not want anything to do with but also could not have anything to do with even if I wanted to because its that they don't want me in there not that I wouldn't've continued to grudgingly install their stupid proprietary crap from "network effects" unwashed-masses-pressure if they continued to make it actually work.

TL;DR: Flash is not going to be working on Linux going forward, so no one on Linux is likely to bother installing some long out of date version of a proprietary viewer just to view some adumentary...

Surely there must be some free open source animation system by now?

I would even argue that it is totally inappropriate, even undermining of DeVCoin principles, to be using some non open source crap to make our videos. It is a kind of misrepresentation even maybe, or at the least it implies that we too agree that free open source software is unsuitable for use for real world applications such as educational videos...

FOR SURE WE CANNOT PAY BOUNTY ON IT, RIGHT?

The entire content becomes non free-open-source by being unusable without a proprietary viewer???

-MarkM-


After the video is created, we can convert it to something more available to the masses. Who cares what he writes it in initially? Let him choose his method, then we will be thankful we have someone talented enough to create it and just convert it after the fact if we dont like flash.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: acs26 on June 14, 2013, 06:44:29 AM
Question for the experts:

I was wondering what is the safest way to store your dvc.

Is it a pc wallet?
Is it vircurex? (?!?) with all its ups and downs
Is it devda? (?!?) if a few days ago you were not at home checking your wallet, you would come back without wallet at all.

The security issue is still a major mental obstacle for everyone approaching this world.



I suggest both Vircurex and a PC wallet. Vircurex isn't that secure, unless you're using a strong password and a YubiKey. So don't store too much, unless you're going to exchange it. Use your PC wallet for your large amounts.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 06:51:36 AM
After the video is created, we can convert it to something more available to the masses. Who cares what he writes it in initially? Let him choose his method, then we will be thankful we have someone talented enough to create it and just convert it after the fact if we dont like flash.

We care because bounties and shares are paid only for free open source stuff, not proprietary stuff. Its the same thing as all the audio files in Linux distributions being .ogg, they apparently have to be because the common alternatives are not free open source codex / codices. (I think we also don't use GIF anymore too, similarly, ever since the big burn the GIFs campaign a decade or so ago or more.)

So sure if his flash authoring tool can also put out a free open source codex or he can convert it as you seem to expect to be possible (googling reveals google themselves made a converter to convert flash to HTML5) then fine, but we don't do bounties or shares for proprietary stuff so any bounty or share would be for the HTML5 or whatever free open source thing not whatever proprietary formats he used internally in his studio to create the free open source end-result.

If he cannot produce free open source but you can by converting his stuff, then it would be you who should get the bounty, and you'd share it out among your team as you see fit, such as to give him most or all of it for creating the flash thing you used to produce the actually rewardable end result.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: killerstorm on June 14, 2013, 07:07:11 AM
So sure if his flash authoring tool can also put out a free open source codex or he can convert it as you seem to expect to be possible (googling reveals google themselves made a converter to convert flash to HTML5) then fine, but we don't do bounties or shares for proprietary stuff so any bounty or share would be for the HTML5 or whatever free open source thing not whatever proprietary formats he used internally in his studio to create the free open source end-result.

1. It is "codec", not "codex". Codec means "coder - decoder".
2. It is possible to play flash video using free, open source software. FLV is just a container for audio/video encoded using certain codecs, and many of them are supported by open source video software.
3. For example, I'm using Debian wtih Gnash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnash) but not Adobe Flash, and I can watch Youtube videos. But not videos on other sites. Apparently most flash video players use some feature which is specific to Adobe Flash and are not compatible with Gnash. However, it is only a problem with player (i.e. a thing which shows buttons and whatnot), not a problem with video format itself.
4. FWIW Gnash uses ffmpeg/avcodec.

EDIT: Oh, it isn't video, it is Flash animation. I've downloaded it and it seems to be work fine with Gnash, so it is open source enough, I guess.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jasinlee on June 14, 2013, 07:29:31 AM
No no we should let mark have his way and not pay him for his work since that makes more sense.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 07:59:28 AM
Flash is dying fast. I don't bother installing the old versions that do work because already I get warnings that they do not plan to have any new versions work, so I might as well just get used to the fact that flash is just another walled garden I not only do not want anything to do with but also could not have anything to do with even if I wanted to because its that they don't want me in there not that I wouldn't've continued to grudgingly install their stupid proprietary crap from "network effects" unwashed-masses-pressure if they continued to make it actually work.

TL;DR: Flash is not going to be working on Linux going forward, so no one on Linux is likely to bother installing some long out of date version of a proprietary viewer just to view some adumentary...

Surely there must be some free open source animation system by now?

I would even argue that it is totally inappropriate, even undermining of DeVCoin principles, to be using some non open source crap to make our videos. It is a kind of misrepresentation even maybe, or at the least it implies that we too agree that free open source software is unsuitable for use for real world applications such as educational videos...

FOR SURE WE CANNOT PAY BOUNTY ON IT, RIGHT?

The entire content becomes non free-open-source by being unusable without a proprietary viewer???

-MarkM-

Let's see, I've send you a .swf file because it's really light, but of course it won't be the final format file. The other option was to send you a video file from near 1GB, instead of this 24kb file. Flash is the software I use, actionscript is the language I use, but that does not mean that you will need a propietary viewer. I think you did not get what is open source and what is flash. I am not telling that you'll need to have installed Flash in order to see the video. You asked me for a sample of the video and I showed that.

Adobe Flash is just a tool to create a video file. HTML5 animation is not useful for us, because it'd be less supported and it'd last years and years to load a 15' animation. If I make a video file, you just can embed it into your website using .ogg, .mp4 or .webm.

So markm, I think you are a programmer (correct me if wrong). Have you ever worked with designers? All this non open source crap you are talking about is basically the only crap we have to design. It's not wonderful, I know, but it's what we have. It is not about the software we use, but about the content we create. The licenses don't enter at the creation software and tools level, just on the content and creations.

Please don't hesitate to ask any doubt you have, but please don't talk without knowledge of the situation, as a lot of people here in devcoin community does.



On the other side, I think that if I have to be funded by donations the best way to work is to keep uploading all the new versions, in order to let you know where am I and what I am doing, so if you don't like you just have to say it. So, the first sample is the following (cool formats for everybody):
.ogv: https://mega.co.nz/#!Es9QjJAS!NB5pZEt4dWP7BmcDrIeba2UGu2EGVHZujzgnEMqjnfY
.mp4: https://mega.co.nz/#!Rw1xhAwB!GYnGhTr9K4YrEhWl_I6kvgfGLZlrSajxFYCr2rGJs4o
.webm: https://mega.co.nz/#!sll0zKaL!ede6gSVOR26bFyXxGBx0Ph7BagAVr-usz-4usXIUN94

Quote
Marticps I would say just post your own donation address, and we can just send you coins directly. Please specify type that you would prefer btc/ltc/dvc etc.

BTC: 13oSBu1fFzLs157TWJY7bkVSoMab69zKNn
DVC: 1MFKi4r2U89o8w5YSxE4BfcTxmgg6wMpci


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: worldinacoin on June 14, 2013, 08:08:54 AM
It is getting a bit confusing with the changes of the Devcoin thread.  Hope that the trolls will leave us alone.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 08:11:44 AM
No no we should let mark have his way and not pay him for his work since that makes more sense.

I think that what doesn't make sense is what markm said. It's strange because I think he should have clear what is open source and what it is not.
Edit: Open source means that I will publish the source files, and allow people to view, edit and create new versions of this source files, despite the software I used to create it is not open source. That's what I have learned.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 08:58:54 AM
Who is behind devda.ch?

I think it's icoin


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: weisoq on June 14, 2013, 09:07:29 AM
Quote
Another Devtome request:

There's not yet anybody to formally do this but been starting to file all devtome articles as numbers are growing and logistically will become difficult over time as most do not categorise their articles at the end or by submission date so each has had to be skim read for subject matter/fiction (topic is not always clear from title). This will also make it easier to note new additions and spot any contentious work.

Would be a great help, a lot quicker and to everyone's benefit if each author could have a quick run through just their own articles and file them appropritely (just involves copying the article title part from the url (e.g. the bold part here http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=gold) -> finding appropriate category -> edit at the top and pasting to the appropriate part with colon and two square brackets either side as the other links [[:gold]] (and formatting it a little if you can for tidiness without any underscores).

I've spent some time tidying it up, adding categories and subs and going through articles one-by-one but it's slow and takes ages. Should now be fairly straightforward to find the right place for your work, and you will fiind many have already been done. Category only has to be ballpark, we can go through later and finalise, but authors know best what their articles are about (if you feel there's no appropriate subheading for your work new categories can be added in the same way as articles (without adding to your own page), I'll then spot the addition and link to it.

If you can find time to do this can you let me know when you have and I'll take it from there and work from the 'latest' which is now near complete. In steps:
----------
1. Login to devtome, go to your page.
2. Open another version of devtome in another tab on your browser, in that tab go to devtome.com (the page with the topics section)

3. First tab: On your page, click 'edit this page'
4. Select (highlight) and copy the article text for your first one, including colon and both sets of square brackets e.g. [[:article]]

5. Second Tab: the one with the topics, find the topic that relates to the subject of your article and select it, if there is a subheading that's even more appropriate then select that. Once you're on the topic page that corresponds to your article, click 'edit this page'
6. Paste the [[:article]] (that you previously copied) onto that topic page, in the same manner as those already there.
7. 'Preview' to make sure it looks as you want it to then 'Save'

8. Repeat steps 4 to 7 for the rest of your articles. You don't need to save your own page as you're only copying.

If there really isn't an appropriate category for your article, either create a new one or copy them in the same manner as above onto the front topics page, just grouped together in the correct area as the 'health' articles are for the time being. The categorisation of articles has no effect on word count. Maybe it should though, that's an interesting idea.

For anyone who can't be arsed with doing that, could you at least put them under 'latest' on the topic page with the date you put them there, whereupon I'll delete them out of sheer pissedoffedness. Or I might file them, or if there are loads somebody else might. Seriously though if it's going to work as a wiki it needs sorting out.
Reposting this, if this is THE thread (I'd bin the 'aegis' part of the title as just confusing)


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: TaxReturn on June 14, 2013, 09:16:27 AM
Open Source Alternatives for 2D Animation:

Synfig (http://www.synfig.org/cms/)
Pencil (http://www.pencil-animation.org/)
Tupi (http://www.maefloresta.com/portal/about)

General Guidance for Alternatives:

http://www.osalt.com/


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 09:21:45 AM
Open Source Alternatives for 2D Animation:

Synfig (http://www.synfig.org/cms/)
Pencil (http://www.pencil-animation.org/)
Tupi (http://www.maefloresta.com/portal/about)

General Guidance for Alternatives:

http://www.osalt.com/

Lets see:
These alternatives are not as powerful as Flash. But you are right, it'd be better to use one of them. Anyway, I haven't learned that at college and, the most important point is the following:
Being open source does mean that its source code is available for everybody to view, edit and redistribute it. The fact that Adobe Flash is not open source does not mean that the works created with it can't be open source.

If you want to learn how to work with any of these softwares, go ahead. I can't. It should be really nice to do all my design work with open source alternatives, but just I can't: From alias, inventor, catia or solidworks to flash.

EDIT:
I agree with you with all you have said, it is rather better to use open source licenses. I will never give my money to companies such as Adobe. At this moment, due to my experience and free time, I can't manage to work with an open source alternative. But this doesn't mean that the work I create will be propietary work.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 09:30:35 AM
I agree with you with all you have said, it is rather better to use open source licenses. I will never give my money to companies such as Adobe. At this moment, due to my experience and free time, I can't manage to work with an open source alternative. But this doesn't mean that the work I create will be propietary work.

It is the actual product I am concerned about. A movie that you need a proprietary viewer to view is not suitable, it has to be in a codex that is open source and that has open source viewers available to view it.

Even if any open source viewers can view it, the actual media itself, the codex, the file they tell the viewer to display, should be an open source codex/format/type.

People should not need to use flash to see the thing.

Also, re "Being open source does mean that its source code is available for everybody to view, edit and redistribute it. The fact that Adobe Flash is not open source does not mean that the works created with it can't be open source.", we support free open source, not all open source. Commercial, proprietary etc open source does not qualify. Free as in freedom - to re-use, base derivative works on, alter, re-arrange, re-purpose, distribute, redistribute (all these freedoms go with it to those it is distributed to) etc - not necessarily free as in beer.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 09:33:03 AM
I agree with you with all you have said, it is rather better to use open source licenses. I will never give my money to companies such as Adobe. At this moment, due to my experience and free time, I can't manage to work with an open source alternative. But this doesn't mean that the work I create will be propietary work.

It is the actual product I am concerned about. A movie that you need a proprietary viewer to view is not suitable, it has to be in a codex that is open source and that has open source viewers avilable to view it.

Even if any open source viewers can view it, the actual media itself, the codex, the file they tell the viewer to display, should be an open source codex/format/type.

People should not need to use flash to see the thing.

-MarkM-
Nice, have you tried with these formats I uploaded few posts ago? You should view them properly (webm or ogv).


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 09:40:48 AM
Reposting this, if this is THE thread (I'd bin the 'aegis' part of the title as just confusing)

Good as the other thread was locked.

is our wiki system really primitive or something (it mgiht well be)? As I thought in wikis once you put a categories section at the bottom of your article the category pages pick it up automatically, no one has to manually go around picking out page names and pasting them into the category pages, on the contrary the category pages are automatically created/generated and updated by the software.

All my pages I put a category on the bottom of should automagically appear on the corresponding category pages. in fact possibly even if i label them as in a category that does not exist it is possible the system is intended to automatically create that category, though i am not sure on that, maybe wikipedia doesn't want new categories made up on the spot for example.

it is possible that the script to create/update the categories is not being run on schedule by the cron daemon, but if so probably a human is expected to run it periodically.

Basically all the work you did pasting pagenames in the category pages should have been done by simply running a script.

it still of course depends on pages actually having a categories section listing what categories the page belongs in.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 09:45:05 AM
I think that what doesn't make sense is what markm said. It's strange because I think he should have clear what is open source and what it is not.
Edit: Open source means that I will publish the source files, and allow people to view, edit and create new versions of this source files, despite the software I used to create it is not open source. That's what I have learned.

I am saying flash source code is not suitable for devcoin backing because flash is a proprietary language not a free open language-specification, as far as I know.

If indeed flash is a free open specification that other people besides macromedia or whoever it is has free open source viewers for, even then it is probably not suitable. There were free open source viewers for GIFs but still GIFs don't go in distros.

Can't flash building tools output normal animation formats, whatever they are? (Not animated GIFs, as GIFs are also deprecated...)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 09:46:11 AM
I think that what doesn't make sense is what markm said. It's strange because I think he should have clear what is open source and what it is not.
Edit: Open source means that I will publish the source files, and allow people to view, edit and create new versions of this source files, despite the software I used to create it is not open source. That's what I have learned.

I am saying flash source code is not suitable for devcoin backing because flash is a proprietary language not a free open language-specification, as far as I know.

If indeed flash is a free open specification that other people besides macromedia or whoever it is has free open source viewers for, even then it is probably not suitable. There were free open source viewers for GIFs but still GIFs don't go in distros.

Can't flash building tools output normal animation formats, whatever they are? (Not animated GIFs, as GIFs are also deprecated...)

-MarkM-


Well I was thinking of making a normal video format, not an animation format... (of course not thinking of GIF at all). About the source code, it'd be a .fla format.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 09:50:50 AM
3. For example, I'm using Debian wtih Gnash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnash) but not Adobe Flash, and I can watch Youtube videos. But not videos on other sites. Apparently most flash video players use some feature which is specific to Adobe Flash and are not compatible with Gnash. However, it is only a problem with player (i.e. a thing which shows buttons and whatnot), not a problem with video format itself.
4. FWIW Gnash uses ffmpeg/avcodec.

EDIT: Oh, it isn't video, it is Flash animation. I've downloaded it and it seems to be work fine with Gnash, so it is open source enough, I guess.

Okay so maybe the problem is the browsers, they claim a plugin is needed to view flash, and they aren't offering any free open source flash viewing tool they just send me to macromedia or adobe or whoever and they say sorry we are not going to be supporting Linux.

So maybe the free open source browser folks just don't know yet that there is a free open source flash viewer they can point people to, or they have not plugged it in yet because so far the commerical/propriery one has not actually stopped support yet they are just saying they are going to.

For youtube I often used to be told by the browser it simply cannot find any plugin at all that can view whatever it was that it thought i needed a plugin to view. I haven't actually run into that lately for some reason but maybe mostly because I got used to not bothering to click on links to youtube. (People seldom bother to include transcripts and I didn't want sound on my computer as I already had that on my television.)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: weisoq on June 14, 2013, 09:51:17 AM
Reposting this, if this is THE thread (I'd bin the 'aegis' part of the title as just confusing)

Good as the other thread was locked.

is our wiki system really primitive or something (it mgiht well be)? As I thought in wikis once you put a categories section at the bottom of your article the category pages pick it up automatically, no one has to manually go around picking out page names and pasting them into the category pages, on the contrary the category pages are automatically created/generated and updated by the software.

All my pages I put a category on the bottom of should automagically appear on the corresponding category pages. in fact possibly even if i label them as in a category that does not exist it is possible the system is intended to automatically create that category, though i am not sure on that, maybe wikipedia doesn't want new categories made up on the spot for example.

it is possible that the script to create/update the categories is not being run on schedule by the cron daemon, but if so probably a human is expected to run it periodically.

Basically all the work you did pasting pagenames in the category pages should have been done by simply running a script.

it still of course depends on pages actually having a categories section listing what categories the page belongs in.

-MarkM-

I'm not sure but either way it wasn't being done. I wasn't aware of any auto categorisation pick-up, I actually only realised I was even meant to categorise after reading it all through again more recently. This seems to be the same for most others, who like me haven't and don't categorise at the base of articles. I've also only realised in the last day that there's a difference between say [[[category:topic]] and [[topic]] so that's my learning curve issue and slowly amending any I've created without it. Problem is that my ignorance is similar to most others'.

A more automated/familiarity with an exisiting conceptual system would be great. Even if it already exists and I'm missing the point (or doing it wrong - especially if I'm doing it wrong), if there's a quicker/better way of doing it I'd love to know about it.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 09:54:46 AM
3. For example, I'm using Debian wtih Gnash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnash) but not Adobe Flash, and I can watch Youtube videos. But not videos on other sites. Apparently most flash video players use some feature which is specific to Adobe Flash and are not compatible with Gnash. However, it is only a problem with player (i.e. a thing which shows buttons and whatnot), not a problem with video format itself.
4. FWIW Gnash uses ffmpeg/avcodec.

EDIT: Oh, it isn't video, it is Flash animation. I've downloaded it and it seems to be work fine with Gnash, so it is open source enough, I guess.

Okay so maybe the problem is the browsers, they claim a plugin is needed to view flash, and they aren't offering any free open source flash viewing tool they just send me to macromedia or adobe or whoever and they say sorry we are not going to be supporting Linux.

So maybe the free open source browser folks just don't know yet that there is a free open source flash viewer they can point people to, or they have not plugged it in yet because so far the commerical/propriery one has not actually stopped support yet they are just saying they are going to.

For youtube I often used to be told by the browser it simply cannot find any plugin at all that can view whatever it was that it thought i needed a plugin to view. I haven't actually run into that lately for some reason but maybe mostly because I got used to not bothering to click on links to youtube.

-MarkM-


Isn't youtube using html5 video too?


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 09:56:35 AM
Isn't youtube using html5 video too?

If it is that might explain why i have not had trouble lately viewing youtube videos the few times I have bothered. (I even have speakers/earphones now so have tried once or twice just to see if those work. I still hate the lack of random-access visual scan for parts worth reading though so still prefer written material. Maybe a speed control would help to be able to make it go faster without actually missing what you are zooming through...)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 10:33:23 AM
Missing pages are sometimes ones not yet written, the red simply indicates the author hopes a page about the red term will exist someday; they might not even be planning to write such a page someday themselves, they might just be indicating its a page that would have links waiting to send traffic if someone did bother to write such a page.

Looking for red spots might be a good way to come up with ideas for articles. Though probably best check the author of the red won't mind someone else going ahead and whipping up a page to fill the indicated need. For me for example I make links to Galactic Milieu pages i expect to have to write someday and would want to write those myself, but also to terms that likely other places like wikipedia or whatever have articles on so we probably also should but that aren't directly on the route of the writing agenda i have at the time. Free links for whoever does make the page, and also indications i'd rather refer to a page about it on devtome than resort to putting a link to a wikipedia article about it.

its a pain going back later looking for pages that mention your new page's topic and wikifying them, seemed more reasonable to wikify them from the start so once the page does get written going searching for places to put links to it won't be necessary. Or not as necessary anyway.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: soma13 on June 14, 2013, 11:10:32 AM
Can i suggest

[DVC] DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated by Aegis


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
3. For example, I'm using Debian wtih Gnash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnash) but not Adobe Flash, and I can watch Youtube videos. But not videos on other sites. Apparently most flash video players use some feature which is specific to Adobe Flash and are not compatible with Gnash. However, it is only a problem with player (i.e. a thing which shows buttons and whatnot), not a problem with video format itself.
4. FWIW Gnash uses ffmpeg/avcodec.

EDIT: Oh, it isn't video, it is Flash animation. I've downloaded it and it seems to be work fine with Gnash, so it is open source enough, I guess.

Okay so maybe the problem is the browsers, they claim a plugin is needed to view flash, and they aren't offering any free open source flash viewing tool they just send me to macromedia or adobe or whoever and they say sorry we are not going to be supporting Linux.

So maybe the free open source browser folks just don't know yet that there is a free open source flash viewer they can point people to, or they have not plugged it in yet because so far the commerical/propriery one has not actually stopped support yet they are just saying they are going to.

For youtube I often used to be told by the browser it simply cannot find any plugin at all that can view whatever it was that it thought i needed a plugin to view. I haven't actually run into that lately for some reason but maybe mostly because I got used to not bothering to click on links to youtube.

-MarkM-


Isn't youtube using html5 video too?

I don't think so. Last month I did a reformat and had to install flash to view videos again. Unless they changed it since then.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: K1773R on June 14, 2013, 11:17:25 AM
Can i suggest

[DVC] DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated by Aegis
signed. thats a much better topic name than the one being used now...


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 11:18:56 AM
Can i suggest

[DVC] DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated by Aegis
signed. thats a much better topic name than the one being used now...

Or even take out the Aegis name and put  moderated. I don't think most people care who is moderating it; it's an "official" thread.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: K1773R on June 14, 2013, 11:20:20 AM
Can i suggest
[DVC] DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated by Aegis
signed. thats a much better topic name than the one being used now...
Or even take out the Aegis name and put  moderated. I don't think most people care who is moderating it; it's an "official" thread.
that works well too, when i first saw it, it remembered me of the Age of Empires 2 cheat "aegis" and was like, wtf? ;D


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: weisoq on June 14, 2013, 11:23:30 AM
Devtome is a DokuWiki platform. I've been working through their instructions trying get them on Devtome, but it's easier said than done. I still haven't got an internal image posted but more for lack of time.

Here is the link to "Plugins".
https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugins#creating_plugins

Here is link to "Users Manual".
https://www.dokuwiki.org/manual

I got "Advanced Syntax" on Devtome last night.
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_advanced_syntax

Here's a DokuWiki "FAQ: page.
https://www.dokuwiki.org/faq

I'm still getting into it. You can access the DokuWiki by clicking on the icon on the bottom of a Devtome page, second icon from the right. Maybe some answers in here?

EDIT: There are a lot of pages that need to be copied over. Where ever you see red text (on Devtome) is a missing page.  

Ok thanks well I've categorised some but as I'm not sure about how any automated element works I'll leave it for now until it's clearer.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 11:24:17 AM
Can i suggest
[DVC] DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated by Aegis
signed. thats a much better topic name than the one being used now...
Or even take out the Aegis name and put  moderated. I don't think most people care who is moderating it; it's an "official" thread.
that works well too, when i first saw it, it remembered me of the Age of Empires 2 cheat "aegis" and was like, wtf? ;D

lol, in the sense of the coins it looks like it could be a fork or something. Just kind of out of place.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: ashleysly on June 14, 2013, 01:46:39 PM
So what's happened to the devcoin exchange rates? They had decreased dramatically!


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jasinlee on June 14, 2013, 02:33:14 PM
Flash is dying fast. I don't bother installing the old versions that do work because already I get warnings that they do not plan to have any new versions work, so I might as well just get used to the fact that flash is just another walled garden I not only do not want anything to do with but also could not have anything to do with even if I wanted to because its that they don't want me in there not that I wouldn't've continued to grudgingly install their stupid proprietary crap from "network effects" unwashed-masses-pressure if they continued to make it actually work.

TL;DR: Flash is not going to be working on Linux going forward, so no one on Linux is likely to bother installing some long out of date version of a proprietary viewer just to view some adumentary...

Surely there must be some free open source animation system by now?

I would even argue that it is totally inappropriate, even undermining of DeVCoin principles, to be using some non open source crap to make our videos. It is a kind of misrepresentation even maybe, or at the least it implies that we too agree that free open source software is unsuitable for use for real world applications such as educational videos...

FOR SURE WE CANNOT PAY BOUNTY ON IT, RIGHT?

The entire content becomes non free-open-source by being unusable without a proprietary viewer???

-MarkM-

Let's see, I've send you a .swf file because it's really light, but of course it won't be the final format file. The other option was to send you a video file from near 1GB, instead of this 24kb file. Flash is the software I use, actionscript is the language I use, but that does not mean that you will need a propietary viewer. I think you did not get what is open source and what is flash. I am not telling that you'll need to have installed Flash in order to see the video. You asked me for a sample of the video and I showed that.

Adobe Flash is just a tool to create a video file. HTML5 animation is not useful for us, because it'd be less supported and it'd last years and years to load a 15' animation. If I make a video file, you just can embed it into your website using .ogg, .mp4 or .webm.

So markm, I think you are a programmer (correct me if wrong). Have you ever worked with designers? All this non open source crap you are talking about is basically the only crap we have to design. It's not wonderful, I know, but it's what we have. It is not about the software we use, but about the content we create. The licenses don't enter at the creation software and tools level, just on the content and creations.

Please don't hesitate to ask any doubt you have, but please don't talk without knowledge of the situation, as a lot of people here in devcoin community does.



On the other side, I think that if I have to be funded by donations the best way to work is to keep uploading all the new versions, in order to let you know where am I and what I am doing, so if you don't like you just have to say it. So, the first sample is the following (cool formats for everybody):
.ogv: https://mega.co.nz/#!Es9QjJAS!NB5pZEt4dWP7BmcDrIeba2UGu2EGVHZujzgnEMqjnfY
.mp4: https://mega.co.nz/#!Rw1xhAwB!GYnGhTr9K4YrEhWl_I6kvgfGLZlrSajxFYCr2rGJs4o
.webm: https://mega.co.nz/#!sll0zKaL!ede6gSVOR26bFyXxGBx0Ph7BagAVr-usz-4usXIUN94

Quote
Marticps I would say just post your own donation address, and we can just send you coins directly. Please specify type that you would prefer btc/ltc/dvc etc.

BTC: 13oSBu1fFzLs157TWJY7bkVSoMab69zKNn
DVC: 1MFKi4r2U89o8w5YSxE4BfcTxmgg6wMpci

We are making an explanation video for Devcoin as a whole.
We'll make an animation video with an voice over. (Kinda like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo )
Do we have a final devcoin logo to use that is voted upon? Or can we push that vote up to now if possible.

Needs Clarification:
  • Marticps does the animation, but needs a script, if someone is proficient at script writing please stand up.
    If someone already started a script who is it so we can mark you down.
  • There is a small bounty available for producing a video, but considering that the rules dont really allow for expanding on it, we are asking for pledged donations for marticps as this is a monumental task and very important step to building up devcoin.
  • There was not a certain date set for the video to be produced, but I am sure the bitcoin education site would like to have it sooner rather than later.
    I am planning on doing the voice over for free for the video.


Any comments please discuss.

Only a few points:
The video should be about 15 minutes. I find it maybe too long.
My skills can't do something as the video jasinlee posted, don't expect that please. I try to do something simple but pretty (https://mega.co.nz/#!Zp8TBCSQ!HsgP-z2rdA3rzy0c28TP20K7b6NOdmgbsb46p4QfHbw (Flash required, I hope fonts are embedded)).
I will do the animation in function of the script. It'd be better to record the off-voice before or to add timing at the script, in order to make the video and the audio fit in a proper way.

Thanks

Anyone able to write the script as a template for us as a guide that we can modify into the 15 minutes requested?

And markm, have you ever thought of looking for a solution, then posting that theorized solution instead of just explaining why something is so terrible ? This is a think tank not a whine tank.


Title: Re: Aegis - DevCoin
Post by: FinShaggy on June 14, 2013, 03:32:32 PM
As we have a new thread I would like to suggest that we keep it civil (as we do) even when silly ol' trolls come along.

Also if the Devcoiners could not reply to other threads that silly ol' trolls are on, they won't rise and get read by others.

Obviously some one is threatened by Devcoin or wants to replace it. Seeing as how the last silly ol' troll had advertising saying he'd promote new coins, maybe he was hired. Whatever. I think we should take it as a compliment that Devcoin and Devtome have something unique, as all can contribute and all can benefit.

I do agree with being civil.

However, it seemed more like a attack on Fin Shaggy, though both reasons seem valid. He was talking about DevCoin and competition, so that's also valid.

People are against finshaggy due to the whole "bitcoin town" idea. Unrelated to DVC.

Posting here so I can watch the thread!

And they are only against Bitcoin town because they are trolls.

Have you seen the people posting on the Bitcoin town thread? They are no better than owlsy


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: markm on June 14, 2013, 03:44:37 PM
And markm, have you ever thought of looking for a solution, then posting that theorized solution instead of just explaining why something is so terrible ? This is a think tank not a whine tank.

Okay I just happened upon this video capture from OpenSimulator so checked to see whether it would actually work, and it did:

http://worldoflittlefield.wordpress.com/

It is just a video imbedded into a blog page, yet it actually managed to work.

They seem however to have blocked "view source" somehow so maybe if wordpress doesn't do that itself normally and it isn't just something they got, possibly without even realising it, as part of some template they used for their blog, possibly it might be the work of someone quite sophisticated who knows what they are doing.

Hovering it and rightclicking it and so on it seems that it is HTML5.

Someone said earlier HTML5 is actually not widely viewable though so maybe i have one of the few browser brands that happens to support it (Firefox)?

I think though my other browser, that I almost never actually use (Google's browser) also supposedly supports it. So I am not sure what doesn't support it?

Maybe Windows only supports some in-house variant of it? Or doesn't support it at all?

I don't usually even try to view videos because historically they almost never worked, even on machines that did have some old version of flash installed.

I don't have flash installed at all and that blog video works fine.

it is even on youtube, i just noticed! Though, again, maybe someone sophisticated had to force youtube to do it this way instead of some other format.

(Or maybe youtube detects the browser and pushes a version it knows the browser can use?)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: weisoq on June 14, 2013, 04:04:09 PM
Anyone able to write the script as a template for us as a guide that we can modify into the 15 minutes requested?
sent a msg


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jasinlee on June 14, 2013, 04:15:49 PM
Anyone able to write the script as a template for us as a guide that we can modify into the 15 minutes requested?
sent a msg

Ok replied, lets get this rolling.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 04:25:53 PM
Question for the experts:

I was wondering what is the safest way to store your dvc.

Is it a pc wallet?
Is it vircurex? (?!?) with all its ups and downs
Is it devda? (?!?) if a few days ago you were not at home checking your wallet, you would come back without wallet at all.

The security issue is still a major mental obstacle for everyone approaching this world.



I have this same question.  I am still reading this thread so it may already be answered.  I just wanted to not have to look for this post again.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jaywaka2713 on June 14, 2013, 04:27:55 PM
Question for the experts:

I was wondering what is the safest way to store your dvc.

Is it a pc wallet?
Is it vircurex? (?!?) with all its ups and downs
Is it devda? (?!?) if a few days ago you were not at home checking your wallet, you would come back without wallet at all.

The security issue is still a major mental obstacle for everyone approaching this world.



I have this same question.  I am still reading this thread so it may already be answered.  I just wanted to not have to look for this post again.

Share bounty for a valid, stable online wallet?


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: FinShaggy on June 14, 2013, 04:42:19 PM
Question for the experts:

I was wondering what is the safest way to store your dvc.

Is it a pc wallet?
Is it vircurex? (?!?) with all its ups and downs
Is it devda? (?!?) if a few days ago you were not at home checking your wallet, you would come back without wallet at all.

The security issue is still a major mental obstacle for everyone approaching this world.



I have this same question.  I am still reading this thread so it may already be answered.  I just wanted to not have to look for this post again.

Share bounty for a valid, stable online wallet?
Same as bitcoin, offline cold storage on a paper wallet (engraved on diamond and stored in a nuclear bunker etc etc). The same security methods apply as the bitcoin client so there's a fair amount of info available.

I don't understand that shit.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 04:43:37 PM
How about the equivalent of Coinbase for Devcoins?  I would totally use it!


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 04:48:08 PM
I don't understand the technical security stuff either right now, which is why I am willing to pay some in the way of reasonable fees to have that taken care of for me.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jaywaka2713 on June 14, 2013, 04:49:50 PM
How about the equivalent of Coinbase for Devcoins?  I would totally use it!

I recommend trying to stop double posting. just a recommendation. But coinbase for devcoin would be awesome. If I could figure out what kind of payment gateway they have, and the transfer process from Bitcoin to USD in bank, I'd set one up for devcoin.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: FinShaggy on June 14, 2013, 04:50:08 PM
I don't understand the technical security stuff either right now, which is why I am willing to pay some in the way of reasonable fees to have that taken care of for me.

I don't understand any of it.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 05:05:07 PM
How about the equivalent of Coinbase for Devcoins?  I would totally use it!

I recommend trying to stop double posting. just a recommendation. But coinbase for devcoin would be awesome. If I could figure out what kind of payment gateway they have, and the transfer process from Bitcoin to USD in bank, I'd set one up for devcoin.

How was I double posting?  I apologize if I did something wrong. It wasn't intentional.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: jaywaka2713 on June 14, 2013, 05:15:32 PM
How about the equivalent of Coinbase for Devcoins?  I would totally use it!

I recommend trying to stop double posting. just a recommendation. But coinbase for devcoin would be awesome. If I could figure out what kind of payment gateway they have, and the transfer process from Bitcoin to USD in bank, I'd set one up for devcoin.

How was I double posting?  I apologize if I did something wrong. It wasn't intentional.

I understand you didn't understand. Simply, wait for a response before posting again. Scroll up to your last post, there are two of your posts side by side. Try to avoid that.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: marticps on June 14, 2013, 05:31:27 PM
(Or maybe youtube detects the browser and pushes a version it knows the browser can use?)

Since few months ago that youtube is using HTML5 video on his webpage, and just changes to Flash (less powerful) in case of not supported by the browser (IE8 and behind).


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 05:43:46 PM
How about the equivalent of Coinbase for Devcoins?  I would totally use it!

I recommend trying to stop double posting. just a recommendation. But coinbase for devcoin would be awesome. If I could figure out what kind of payment gateway they have, and the transfer process from Bitcoin to USD in bank, I'd set one up for devcoin.

How was I double posting?  I apologize if I did something wrong. It wasn't intentional.

I understand you didn't understand. Simply, wait for a response before posting again. Scroll up to your last post, there are two of your posts side by side. Try to avoid that.

OK, I see what you mean. 


Title: Faucet updated
Post by: emfox on June 14, 2013, 06:01:31 PM
Cheers.

quote from the Faucet thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191553.msg1983573#msg1983573

Quote
NEW! I have added a feature requested from Unthinkingbit, that anyone has a bitcointalk.org forum id could get more devcoins. the details:
1.Your forum account is not Newbie (at least Jr. Member)
2. You promote devtome.com by adding the following line to your signature:
Code:
[url=http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing]Earn Devcoins by Writing[/url]
3. You add the same Devcoin address to your signature too, no matter what format, we just make sure the account is really yours.
4. Fill your member id into the textbox and submit.

After submiting, we first send 50DVCs to you immediately, after about one week, we will check again if you keep the signature, if ok, another 100 DVCs will be sent.

How to find your Member ID of bitcointalk.org: Click PROFILE on the title line, then click "Summary" Under "Profile Info" at the left panel, then you will see several digits in the URL, the digits is your member ID.


Please report any bug direct to me or to the faucet thread, thanks.


Title: Re: Faucet updated
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 08:50:03 PM
Cheers.

quote from the Faucet thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191553.msg1983573#msg1983573

Quote
NEW! I have added a feature requested from Unthinkingbit, that anyone has a bitcointalk.org forum id could get more devcoins. the details:
1.Your forum account is not Newbie (at least Jr. Member)
2. You promote devtome.com by adding the following line to your signature:
Code:
[url=http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing]Earn Devcoins by Writing[/url]
3. You add the same Devcoin address to your signature too, no matter what format, we just make sure the account is really yours.
4. Fill your member id into the textbox and submit.

After submiting, we first send 50DVCs to you immediately, after about one week, we will check again if you keep the signature, if ok, another 100 DVCs will be sent.

How to find your Member ID of bitcointalk.org: Click PROFILE on the title line, then click "Summary" Under "Profile Info" at the left panel, then you will see several digits in the URL, the digits is your member ID.


Please report any bug direct to me or to the faucet thread, thanks.

I will go for this.  I got the signature line. Now I just have to wait for a new round to start on the faucet before I can officially apply  ;)


Title: Re: Faucet updated
Post by: emfox on June 14, 2013, 11:14:18 PM

I will go for this.  I got the signature line. Now I just have to wait for a new round to start on the faucet before I can officially apply  ;)

You need not wait, just apply now. The bitcointalk check logic is running right before the IP/Address check logic.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 11:26:34 PM
Just need one more person before round 97 starts! GOGOGO!


Title: Re: Faucet updated
Post by: wiser on June 14, 2013, 11:37:50 PM

I will go for this.  I got the signature line. Now I just have to wait for a new round to start on the faucet before I can officially apply  ;)

You need not wait, just apply now. The bitcointalk check logic is running right before the IP/Address check logic.


It's just that I already added my address in this round.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: ranlo on June 14, 2013, 11:51:24 PM

I will go for this.  I got the signature line. Now I just have to wait for a new round to start on the faucet before I can officially apply  ;)

You need not wait, just apply now. The bitcointalk check logic is running right before the IP/Address check logic.


It's just that I already added my address in this round.

He meant that you can still get credit for it, because it would add your address to the list for the bonus (I think). New round just started so doesn't matter now anyways, :p.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: Aegis on June 15, 2013, 01:18:33 AM
Can i suggest

[DVC] DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated by Aegis

I just made it, '[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated'. Not sure if I resolved the title issue. Sorry for the delay, was at the movies.

-Acs26


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 01:45:56 AM
Hmm, I only got 11 devcoin for the month of May despite writing 76k words. Is that normal?

May's earnings don't come until July. What you got was the test send to ensure your address on file is correct.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 01:55:45 AM
Hmm, I only got 11 devcoin for the month of May despite writing 76k words. Is that normal?

You have to wait till the end of next cycle for your money.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on June 15, 2013, 02:39:23 AM
Yeap this looks far more official and easier to find :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 02:40:44 AM
Tons of new stuff coming out for Devcoin this month (next 30 days).

I'm not back home yet, still out of town because of the loss of my brother. But I'll be back soon, and everything will get back on track with what was planned.

Things like:
Play Xbox for DVC
Post on a forum for DVC
Charity accepting DVC
DVC store (place to spend Devcoins)\
and more


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 15, 2013, 02:42:45 AM
Tons of new stuff coming out for Devcoin this month (next 30 days).

I'm not back home yet, still out of town because of the loss of my brother. But I'll be back soon, and everything will get back on track with what was planned.

Things like:
Play Xbox for DVC
Post on a forum for DVC
Charity accepting DVC
DVC store (place to spend Devcoins)\
and more

Can't wait for a store! Could you give a outline of what it would sale?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 02:44:54 AM
Tons of new stuff coming out for Devcoin this month (next 30 days).

I'm not back home yet, still out of town because of the loss of my brother. But I'll be back soon, and everything will get back on track with what was planned.

Things like:
Play Xbox for DVC
Post on a forum for DVC
Charity accepting DVC
DVC store (place to spend Devcoins)\
and more

Can't wait for a store! Could you give a outline of what it would sale?

Probably computer parts, games & herbals/incenses. For alternative medicine and health.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 02:46:12 AM
Tons more videos on the way that mention Devcoin too, if not being directly about Devcoin.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: acs26 on June 15, 2013, 02:52:13 AM
Hmm, I only got 11 devcoin for the month of May despite writing 76k words. Is that normal?

Yes the Round 24 payments haven't started yet, still on Round 23. I'm not sure Round 24 starts.

I thinking Unthinkingbit said July 1st, but I'm not sure. It could be June the 20th.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 02:58:09 AM
Hmm, I only got 11 devcoin for the month of May despite writing 76k words. Is that normal?

Yes the Round 24 payments haven't started yet, still on Round 23. I'm not sure Round 24 starts.

I thinking Unthinkingbit said July 1st, but I'm not sure. It could be June the 20th.

I think it's just at like 95000 or something.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 03:57:40 AM
Hmm, I only got 11 devcoin for the month of May despite writing 76k words. Is that normal?

Yes the Round 24 payments haven't started yet, still on Round 23. I'm not sure Round 24 starts.

I thinking Unthinkingbit said July 1st, but I'm not sure. It could be June the 20th.

I think it's just at like 95000 or something.

They said it's at the first block divisible by 4000. So that should be 96000.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 15, 2013, 04:06:08 AM
Would anybody like to suggest something that should be in the main post?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 04:11:36 AM
Would anybody like to suggest something that should be in the main post?

Confirmation on when Round 24 blocks should start paying, and also (when it's confirmed) the total share count/value per share, :).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 04:22:31 AM
Hmm, I only got 11 devcoin for the month of May despite writing 76k words. Is that normal?

Yes the Round 24 payments haven't started yet, still on Round 23. I'm not sure Round 24 starts.

I thinking Unthinkingbit said July 1st, but I'm not sure. It could be June the 20th.

I think it's just at like 95000 or something.

They said it's at the first block divisible by 4000. So that should be 96000.

And with the new lag, scripts won't run till... 97300?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FinShaggy on June 15, 2013, 04:24:07 AM
Maybe even 98600


Title: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 15, 2013, 06:17:35 AM
Cheers.

quote from the Faucet thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191553.msg1983573#msg1983573

Quote
NEW! I have added a feature requested from Unthinkingbit, that anyone has a bitcointalk.org forum id could get more devcoins. the details:
..

Awesome, you get 8 shares in round 25, and the faucet will also get 8 shares ongoing as long as it works:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

Plus you get 2 million devcoins now.


Title: Mcxnow Exchange Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 15, 2013, 06:20:11 AM
For adding devcoin to mcxnow:
https://mcxnow.com/exchange/DVC

mcxnow gets 9 shares. He actually got them in round 24:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_24.csv

but I didn't post the award until now because I was busy.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: emfox on June 15, 2013, 06:31:19 AM
Cheers.

quote from the Faucet thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191553.msg1983573#msg1983573

Quote
NEW! I have added a feature requested from Unthinkingbit, that anyone has a bitcointalk.org forum id could get more devcoins. the details:
..

Awesome, you get 8 shares in round 25, and the faucet will also get 8 shares ongoing as long as it works:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

Plus you get 2 million devcoins now.


Thanks!

So I missed the round 24... And is it means that I should change the script now to 25 at http://d.evco.in/gen_charity.sh ?


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 15, 2013, 06:54:05 AM
So I missed the round 24...

Yup. The receiver file has been generated, but not all file administrators have uploaded it yet. You're a file administrator, but not on the tree because we don't have a seventh file administrator yet.

Quote
And is it means that I should change the script now to 25 at http://d.evco.in/gen_charity.sh ?

Yes.

Edit:
Block 93,300 was when the shares were calculated, although there was a recalculation a bit later because it turned out the images in link format were not picked up, the ongoing bounties were not doubled, eeharris' word count went down because appendices were dropped, and Tom was added to devtome_23.csv because he messaged around the time of the calculation.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: emfox on June 15, 2013, 07:18:06 AM

Yup. The receiver file has been generated, but not all file administrators have uploaded it yet. You're a file administrator, but not on the tree because we don't have a seventh file administrator yet.

Cannot quite catch that... I upload the receiver file, but just as a backup, and it's not used?

Quote


Quote
And is it means that I should change the script now to 25 at http://d.evco.in/gen_charity.sh ?

Yes.


OK and done.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 15, 2013, 07:24:49 AM
..
Cannot quite catch that... I upload the receiver file, but just as a backup, and it's not used?

Just as a backup, it's not used.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: emfox on June 15, 2013, 07:29:18 AM
..
Cannot quite catch that... I upload the receiver file, but just as a backup, and it's not used?

Just as a backup, it's not used.

Fine.

Could I ask is an gamble site for dvc not encouraged? somebody who I forgot told me  days ago. I want to develop a gamble site for btc, and it may not be hard to modify and suitable for dvc too. If not couraged, I'd put this on hold.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: killerstorm on June 15, 2013, 07:40:47 AM
Okay so maybe the problem is the browsers, they claim a plugin is needed to view flash, and they aren't offering any free open source flash viewing tool they just send me to macromedia or adobe or whoever and they say sorry we are not going to be supporting Linux.

Well, I'm using Debian GNU/Linux 7.0, it has Gnash installed by default and it works in browsers (both Chromium and Firefox). I didn't need to install or configure anything, it just works.

Also I can download swf file and it plays standalone, without a browser, with Gnash.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 15, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
..
Could I ask is an gamble site for dvc not encouraged? somebody who I forgot told me  days ago. I want to develop a gamble site for btc, and it may not be hard to modify and suitable for dvc too. If not couraged, I'd put this on hold.

Kumala made a devcoin lottery site many months ago, and he abandoned it because of lack of interest. However, devcoin has a much bigger market capitalization today, so they'll be more interest. I suggest a small bounty, 6 shares then 3, are there any objections?

I forgot to add before, another useful addition to the faucet would be to pay people for links to devtome from an outside site. The faucet would check to see if there is a link to devtome, and if there is send devcoins to the devcoin address on that page. Then a random time later it would check to see if the link is still there, and if so send more devcoins. This would only be for the developer of the prime faucet, and if it is not developed after two months the bounty would be opened to anyone. I suggest 6 shares for the first part, and another 6 for waiting a random time, for a total of twelve shares, are there any objections?

Also, if after a week the writing earnings rate exceeds last month's average rate, I'll double all the bounties that were doubled the last time and any new bounties that have not been sent in part.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on June 15, 2013, 12:30:38 PM
This will certainly make linking the images far easier and neater, I spend quite some time learning how to link the images.


Title: Re: Uploading and Linking to Images
Post by: weisoq on June 15, 2013, 12:39:21 PM
There is now an easy guide (I hope) to upload images to your own folder at Devtome - be it your name or subject specific. You can upload images from any pages edit box. You can link to them with ease.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_how_to_post_an_image
That's cool cheers.

Does anyone know if that means we now allow art/photographs if anyone asks me again, or considered a little too easy/copyright fuzzy/file heavy to open the doors to yet?


Title: Re: Uploading and Linking to Images
Post by: weisoq on June 15, 2013, 01:09:33 PM
There is now an easy guide (I hope) to upload images to your own folder at Devtome - be it your name or subject specific. You can upload images from any pages edit box. You can link to them with ease.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_how_to_post_an_image
That's cool cheers.

Does anyone know if that means we now allow art/photographs if anyone asks me again, or considered a little too easy/copyright fuzzy/file heavy to open the doors to yet?

I am using some of my own photos in some of my pages.

I would not use any one else's images though - photographers get very upset over that and they have web pages that search the web for copies. The wrong one will track you down and drag your name through forums forever. I haunt a few photography forums and have seen it done.

Also please resize your photos/images using http://faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm or your own software.

EDIT: they say a picture is worth a thousand words, but on Devtome it's only worth ten words.  ;D :o ;D ??? :o ;D

Thanks. I meant in terms as submissions of photography and artwork as 'developments' in themselves (contrary to just writing). This has been discussed but issues come up such as defining copyright, difficulty in assessing quality/difficulty in pressing a button (no offense to photographers just making a point about opening floodates to crappy photos such as mine), and then there was the challenge in uploading images, but that part you and others seem to have resolved.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 01:26:19 PM
There is now an easy guide (I hope) to upload images to your own folder at Devtome - be it your name or subject specific. You can upload images from any pages edit box. You can link to them with ease.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_how_to_post_an_image
 

Thanks for that! This helps with a lot of issues, lol.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 15, 2013, 01:40:59 PM
Quote
Thanks. I meant in terms as submissions of photography and artwork as 'developments' in themselves (contrary to just writing). This has been discussed but issues come up such as defining copyright, difficulty in assessing quality/difficulty in pressing a button (no offense to photographers just making a point about opening floodates to crappy photos such as mine), and then there was the challenge in uploading images, but that part you and others seem to have resolved.

I have no idea. Good point though - we don't want to become a garbage image depository. Not to mention inflated word counts by someone's facebook photos in a webpage.

I'm not sure if images can be deleted - I don't think so but will have to go back to DokuWiki and poke around some more...sigh...

EDIT: my hard drive has over 10,000 images. I could retire off of that if I posted it all. How would you like to see 2000+ shots of the Golden Gate Bridge from every landmark and point possible? I'll show you obsessive lol.
Would still beat pics of my locale but yeah that's what I was thinking, so probably best to clarify early on. Perhaps a limit per user or something like that which could 'showcase' decent art/photography by people who do it well, but I suppose it may be for a little later in the process when some sort of vetting is in place for 'photographer' rather than 'someone who owns a camera'.

Thanks for your work on this because I couldn't get images uploaded when I tried and took a while to upload elsewhere, link etc.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 01:45:10 PM
Quote
Thanks. I meant in terms as submissions of photography and artwork as 'developments' in themselves (contrary to just writing). This has been discussed but issues come up such as defining copyright, difficulty in assessing quality/difficulty in pressing a button (no offense to photographers just making a point about opening floodates to crappy photos such as mine), and then there was the challenge in uploading images, but that part you and others seem to have resolved.

I have no idea. Good point though - we don't want to become a garbage image depository. Not to mention inflated word counts by someone's facebook photos in a webpage.

I'm not sure if images can be deleted - I don't think so but will have to go back to DokuWiki and poke around some more...sigh...

EDIT: my hard drive has over 10,000 images. I could retire off of that if I posted it all. How would you like to see 2000+ shots of the Golden Gate Bridge from every landmark and point possible? I'll show you obsessive lol.
Would still beat pics of my locale but yeah that's what I was thinking, so probably best to clarify early on. Perhaps a limit per user or something like that which could 'showcase' decent art/photography by people who do it well, but I suppose it may be for a little later in the process when some sort of vetting is in place for 'photographer' rather than 'someone who owns a camera'.

Thanks for your work on this because I couldn't get images uploaded when I tried and took a while to upload elsewhere, link etc.

Photos will always be subjective though. What I consider perfect art (and what people may pay millions for) you may think is ugly as crap. What you may be willing to pay for I may think is crap. This would cause a lot of problems...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 01:51:25 PM
I leave it to the admins for managing images - I could have opened a can of worms I admit.

Maybe if there was a limit of how many images could be in a webpage? I have about 30 in one page but it's 30,000 words long. Another option, if limits were to be considered, would be so many images per 1000 words? I really have no idea...

This could still cause problems because people could pad their articles with images... I am really not sure how to combat this issue.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on June 15, 2013, 01:54:21 PM
I normally use common wikimedia public domain images, I won't touch Getty images etc even with a pole, these are extremely costly and they are bound to seek redress if you used them.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: doublec on June 15, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
Someone said earlier HTML5 is actually not widely viewable though so maybe i have one of the few browser brands that happens to support it (Firefox)?
Firefox supports HTML video using Ogg Theora and WebM video formats. I was one of the developers that implemented the support for those formats in Firefox. Firefox also supports H.264 on some Android Devices, Windows desktop in some builds and on Firefox OS devices. Linux support for H.264 is coming soon via GStreamer.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 15, 2013, 01:57:55 PM
Photos will always be subjective though. What I consider perfect art (and what people may pay millions for) you may think is ugly as crap. What you may be willing to pay for I may think is crap. This would cause a lot of problems...
I completely agree, just making and agreeing with the point about not dumping every image one owns onto devtome. But somehow also finding a way to not discriminate against those with a real interest in and skill in photography and art but not writing (if that's where it's going, which it may not yet be)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on June 15, 2013, 01:58:40 PM
For me some articles require tables and graphs but normally I cite the works used as in academic papers under the terms of fair usage.  It is definitely not to earn that 10 words.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 02:05:47 PM
For me some articles require tables and graphs but normally I cite the works used as in academic papers under the terms of fair usage.  It is definitely not to earn that 10 words.

All my images are mine so I don't have to worry about any of that stuff, :p.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on June 15, 2013, 07:20:26 PM
Thinking i can now watch youtube videos due to their supposed conversion for my browser or whatever, I clicked this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k

in a thread in harware section.

Notice the little 'CA' by the youtube logo even though the URL says it is youtube.com not youtube.ca.

Maybe Canadian youtube doesn't have the conversion to HTML5 in place yet or something?

As that link just gives me an "install flash" thing, which might for all I know (or care, by now) end up only giving me some ancient version that isn't up to date enough to even work.

I have given up on trying to deal with flash since they already told me last time around that they have no intention of supporting Linux.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 07:27:28 PM
Thinking i can now watch youtube videos due to their supposed conversion for my browser or whatever, I clicked this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k

in a thread in harware section.

Notice the little 'CA' by the youtube logo even though the URL says it is youtube.com not youtube.ca.

Maybe Canadian youtube doesn't have the conversion to HTML5 in place yet or something?

As that link just gives me an "install flash" thing, which might for all I know (or care, by now) end up only giving me some ancient version that isn't up to date enough to even work.

I have given up on trying to deal with flash since they already told me last time around that they have no intention of supporting Linux.

-MarkM-


Hmm? Flash works fine on Ubuntu... never had an issue in the past.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: markm on June 15, 2013, 07:28:11 PM
..
Could I ask is an gamble site for dvc not encouraged? somebody who I forgot told me  days ago. I want to develop a gamble site for btc, and it may not be hard to modify and suitable for dvc too. If not couraged, I'd put this on hold.

Kumala made a devcoin lottery site many months ago, and he abandoned it because of lack of interest. However, devcoin has a much bigger market capitalization today, so they'll be more interest. I suggest a small bounty, 6 shares then 3, are there any objections?

I forgot to add before, another useful addition to the faucet would be to pay people for links to devtome from an outside site. The faucet would check to see if there is a link to devtome, and if there is send devcoins to the devcoin address on that page. Then a random time later it would check to see if the link is still there, and if so send more devcoins. This would only be for the developer of the prime faucet, and if it is not developed after two months the bounty would be opened to anyone. I suggest 6 shares for the first part, and another 6 for waiting a random time, for a total of twelve shares, are there any objections?

Also, if after a week the writing earnings rate exceeds last month's average rate, I'll double all the bounties that were doubled the last time and any new bounties that have not been sent in part.


I think the objection was not to gambling but to the Satoshi Dice spamming the blockchain with dust/crap/garbage used to signal wins and losses.

A normal gambling concept where the website tells you directly on the website that you lost instead of filling every user's disk with useless garbage "so and so lost at gambling!" messages seems reasonable.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on June 15, 2013, 07:29:26 PM
Hmm? Flash works fine on Ubuntu... never had an issue in the past.

Ubuntu is a Debian derivative, maybe like Debian it has built in handling for it.

I did yum search gnash and found it. so i installed it and restarted firefox but still that youtube page insisted i need a plugin that i do not have. looking more closely at the yum utput though there is a gnash-plugin... But youtube is being picky, it still insists I need an *Adobe* flash player.

According to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flash gnash often cannot play sound because often sound in flash uses mp3, which is encumbered by patents.

The page did though show me that i should remove nspluginwrapper; presumably that is what keeps saying I need an adobe viewer.

Ok starting to see something, now some audio errors to deal with but looks like it might at least work for visuals and hopefully if people say anyt6hing worth hearing there will be transcripts to read.

It wants me to install gstreamer-ffmpeg but yum denies knowledge of any such package.

There don't actually seem to be any visuals either, apparently it is using some codec that also isn't available or isn't present or something, maybe the one that someone mentinoed earlier as not being available yet.

-MarkM-



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: K1773R on June 15, 2013, 08:30:04 PM
Hmm? Flash works fine on Ubuntu... never had an issue in the past.

Ubuntu is a Debian derivative, maybe like Debian it has built in handling for it.

I did yum search gnash and found it. so i installed it and restarted firefox but still that youtube page insisted i need a plugin that i do not have. looking more closely at the yum utput though there is a gnash-plugin... But youtube is being picky, it still insists I need an *Adobe* flash player.

According to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flash gnash often cannot play sound because often sound in flash uses mp3, which is encumbered by patents.

The page did though show me that i should remove nspluginwrapper; presumably that is what keeps saying I need an adobe viewer.

Ok starting to see something, now some audio errors to deal with but looks like it might at least work for visuals and hopefully if people say anyt6hing worth hearing there will be transcripts to read.

It wants me to install gstreamer-ffmpeg but yum denies knowledge of any such package.

There don't actually seem to be any visuals either, apparently it is using some codec that also isn't available or isn't present or something, maybe the one that someone mentinoed earlier as not being available yet.

-MarkM-


adobe flash player is no big risk if correctly done with apparmor :)
also running/installing flash on *nix is trivial...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 08:33:15 PM
Hmm? Flash works fine on Ubuntu... never had an issue in the past.

Ubuntu is a Debian derivative, maybe like Debian it has built in handling for it.

I did yum search gnash and found it. so i installed it and restarted firefox but still that youtube page insisted i need a plugin that i do not have. looking more closely at the yum utput though there is a gnash-plugin... But youtube is being picky, it still insists I need an *Adobe* flash player.

According to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flash gnash often cannot play sound because often sound in flash uses mp3, which is encumbered by patents.

The page did though show me that i should remove nspluginwrapper; presumably that is what keeps saying I need an adobe viewer.

Ok starting to see something, now some audio errors to deal with but looks like it might at least work for visuals and hopefully if people say anyt6hing worth hearing there will be transcripts to read.

It wants me to install gstreamer-ffmpeg but yum denies knowledge of any such package.

There don't actually seem to be any visuals either, apparently it is using some codec that also isn't available or isn't present or something, maybe the one that someone mentinoed earlier as not being available yet.

-MarkM-



I'm not on Ubuntu right now but there's a Flash program on the program browser that works perfectly. I can't think of what the name is but I think it's classified as a "flash alternative."


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 15, 2013, 08:58:39 PM
..
I think the objection was not to gambling but to the Satoshi Dice spamming the blockchain with dust/crap/garbage used to signal wins and losses.

A normal gambling concept where the website tells you directly on the website that you lost instead of filling every user's disk with useless garbage "so and so lost at gambling!" messages seems reasonable.

To confirm, the bounty would be only for a normal gambling website, not for something like Satoshi Dice that bloats the block chain.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 15, 2013, 09:01:36 PM
..
I think the objection was not to gambling but to the Satoshi Dice spamming the blockchain with dust/crap/garbage used to signal wins and losses.

A normal gambling concept where the website tells you directly on the website that you lost instead of filling every user's disk with useless garbage "so and so lost at gambling!" messages seems reasonable.

To confirm, the bounty would be only for a normal gambling website, not for something like Satoshi Dice that bloats the block chain.


Wouldn't it be fine if it were like SatoshiDice but held the funds in a user account so you have to choose when to withdraw or something? That would solve the bloat.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: doublec on June 15, 2013, 11:01:41 PM
Maybe Canadian youtube doesn't have the conversion to HTML5 in place yet or something?
What version of Firefox are you using? You may to enable HTML  video in YouTube by going to https://www.youtube.com/html5. Not all videos are converted and videos that the submitter have marked as requiring ads will still use flash. For the latter to work they're waiting for browsers to support the Media Source Extensions API. This is currently being worked on for Firefox.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: shakezula on June 15, 2013, 11:18:10 PM
Can anyone verify if I'm thinking/reading right? Is the coins per share payout for round 24 140,995 coins per share? That's what I saw on receiver_24.csv, just wonder if that's right. If I'm up for 30+ shares, does that mean I'm going to get 3M+ coins?

:D


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on June 16, 2013, 12:14:40 AM
1 dvc buys more than a million right now nicceee


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 16, 2013, 12:20:45 AM
1 dvc buys more than a million right now nicceee

Do you mean one Bitcoin buys more than a million DevCoins?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on June 16, 2013, 12:40:56 AM
oops haha yea


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 16, 2013, 07:46:20 AM
Looking at https://www.dokuwiki.org/mime it appears that : swf    application/x-shockwave-flash   and   mp3    audio/mpeg   and    ogg    audio/ogg    and   wav    audio/wav  may be embedded in Devtome pages through MIME configuration. Some one would have to confirm as I'm not familiar with MIME.

Regarding images there is a PHP config that can limit uploaded maximum file/image sizes. This would be desirable going forwards if mega sized images get uploaded.  https://www.dokuwiki.org/faq:uploadsize

At present it appears that images can not be deleted due to a missing toolbar. You can check this by going to http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=start&ns=wiki&tab_files=files&do=media&tab_details=view&image=fheenix%3Atest.jpg  and clicking on an image. I use this page as an example as if these images were deleted, no harm would be done. When you click on an image a new box shows that allows you metadata.

Looking at https://www.dokuwiki.org/media_manager#layout you can see a similar view in their example, but with the toolbar at the top right above each image. Note the trashcan icon. I would suggest this be enabled should some one post undesired images i.e. porn etc.



Since when is porn undesirable? :p

And yes, that needs to be fixed. I confirmed that there's no trashbin on my side either. An alternative for the time being could be using the "upload update" or whatever it is. Not sure how it works though.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 16, 2013, 11:43:38 AM
Quote
And yes, that needs to be fixed. I confirmed that there's no trashbin on my side either. An alternative for the time being could be using the "upload update" or whatever it is. Not sure how it works though.

I think 'upload update' overwrites your original image, assuming you use the same name. This would allow some one to update charts etc with new data without relinking images in articles. It's possible you could rename your image that you upload too - but I haven't tied that yet. So if you are uploading test.jpg, you can specify folder location and final name of image, so test.jpg could become graph.jpg. 

As long as it overwrites, it could be used as an alternative to remove improper images (just upload a blank one in its place). Of course it's better to allow direct deletion though.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: metazilla on June 17, 2013, 02:18:11 AM
I agree with you with all you have said, it is rather better to use open source licenses. I will never give my money to companies such as Adobe. At this moment, due to my experience and free time, I can't manage to work with an open source alternative. But this doesn't mean that the work I create will be propietary work.

It is the actual product I am concerned about. A movie that you need a proprietary viewer to view is not suitable, it has to be in a codex that is open source and that has open source viewers available to view it.

Even if any open source viewers can view it, the actual media itself, the codex, the file they tell the viewer to display, should be an open source codex/format/type.

People should not need to use flash to see the thing.

Also, re "Being open source does mean that its source code is available for everybody to view, edit and redistribute it. The fact that Adobe Flash is not open source does not mean that the works created with it can't be open source.", we support free open source, not all open source. Commercial, proprietary etc open source does not qualify. Free as in freedom - to re-use, base derivative works on, alter, re-arrange, re-purpose, distribute, redistribute (all these freedoms go with it to those it is distributed to) etc - not necessarily free as in beer.

-MarkM-

I'm not sure if this is still under discussion, but IMO it shouldn't matter what software is used to make the video. That'd be if I made a Devcoin logo in Photoshop (not free or open source), then saved it as a PNG image and uploaded it with a CC license. The logo itself is free and open. Similarly, I could write some open source code in Visual Studio, and the code would still be open source. Or I could write an article on Devtome using a proprietary keyboard on my proprietary laptop...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on June 17, 2013, 12:48:51 PM
What happened with Devcoin Ventures?

It looks like I've missed updates, and they are not in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193054.msg2001211



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 17, 2013, 10:40:10 PM
What happened with Devcoin Ventures?

It looks like I've missed updates, and they are not in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193054.msg2001211



Looks like nobody has been on Devcoin Ventures in sometime. They probably abandoned, or had no more ideas.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Koolio on June 18, 2013, 01:50:35 AM
Hi

Just to inform you I have added DevCoin to my escrow services and I can now perform trades between users. Whether you are buying items, digital services or wish to swap to other cryptocurrencies you can now.

I charge a rate of 3% for standard transactions but this can be lowered for exceptionally high amounts or volume discounts.

Please visit www.KoolioEscrow.com to carry a trade out!

Please note if you wish me to add a manual orderbook if your coin has no exchange presence this can be done, but rates would be 5% or a sizeable donation from devs in return for a lower % fee for all trades.

Please PM or contact me through my site as I may miss replies on forum threads....

Thanks

Koolio


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 18, 2013, 05:32:35 AM
Hi

Just to inform you I have added DevCoin to my escrow services and I can now perform trades between users. Whether you are buying items, digital services or wish to swap to other cryptocurrencies you can now.

I charge a rate of 3% for standard transactions but this can be lowered for exceptionally high amounts or volume discounts.

Please visit www.KoolioEscrow.com to carry a trade out!

Please note if you wish me to add a manual orderbook if your coin has no exchange presence this can be done, but rates would be 5% or a sizeable donation from devs in return for a lower % fee for all trades.

Please PM or contact me through my site as I may miss replies on forum threads....

Thanks

Koolio

Will probably be adding your escrow site to the thread if Unthinking approves.
----
Do you possibly have any proof of previous clients, or reputation?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Koolio on June 18, 2013, 05:49:16 AM
Hi

Just to inform you I have added DevCoin to my escrow services and I can now perform trades between users. Whether you are buying items, digital services or wish to swap to other cryptocurrencies you can now.

I charge a rate of 3% for standard transactions but this can be lowered for exceptionally high amounts or volume discounts.

Please visit www.KoolioEscrow.com to carry a trade out!

Please note if you wish me to add a manual orderbook if your coin has no exchange presence this can be done, but rates would be 5% or a sizeable donation from devs in return for a lower % fee for all trades.

Please PM or contact me through my site as I may miss replies on forum threads....

Thanks

Koolio

Will probably be adding your escrow site to the thread if Unthinking approves.
----
Do you possibly have any proof of previous clients, or reputation?

Theres a couple of feedbacks on the site but bare in mind it is a new site so not many. I have other people I have done deals for with before... yes. I also mod on btc-e so you can consider me of fairly reasonable trust. My escrow service is also being integrated into the feathercoin marketplace very soon


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Aegis on June 18, 2013, 06:23:32 AM
Just added it to the thread, and will be adding any other great business.

-Acs26
P.S: Thanks for the Devcoin Escrow service. I think you're the first.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on June 18, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
As I mentioned previously, I don't think that Devtome really helps to boost Devcoin market cap. But the general idea of revenue-generating wiki is sensible.

So I'm going to implement a "commercial wiki" for Devcoin.

It can work together with Devtome since there is no exclusivity requirement: you can post your material to Devtome and get Devtome bounty for words, then post it to a "commercial wiki" and get bounty for pageviews.

So, here's the idea:

  • there will be many separate and independent 'realms' which can compete with each other, or perhaps cater to different niches
  • to create a new realm you pay some amount of Devcoins
  • each realm has its own policies about what content should be added, quality standards, etc.
  • then you need to invite writers/editors, they need to pay some amount of Devcoins when they join, this prevents spam and Sybil attacks
  • now people can create wiki pages according to realm's policies. also people can improve presentation (custom CSS), do marketing etc.
  • when somebody edits an article he rates his contribution, e.g. 100% for a complete article, 1% for a small change etc.
  • ads are displayed on each page, via a-ads or other ad agency. Also we collect statistics about pageviews etc. So we can get some rough estiamate of page's relative popularity and revenue contribution.
  • proceedings from ad shows are paid to people who edited articles, proportional to their contributions
  • some part of revenue goes to people who contribute to realm in general, like CSS, marketing, etc. It is decided by vote.
  • of course, it is possible that somebody will try to cheat, to counter this it will be possible to punish this asshole via democratic vote among realm's members
  • also realm's members can vote on policies etc
  • finally if democracy doesn't work in this specific realm members who disagree can fork it (content is open source) and start their own realm

So the way I see it, people would create realms on specific topics, like bitcoin news, bitcoin mining info, fiction, etc.

What differentiates this "commercial wiki" from other venues:

  • democratically managed
  • open source, forkable
  • automatic monetization
  • proceedings spread among contributors in a fair fashion
  • helps devcoin as ad revenue will be converted into DVC before payouts


Title: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 18, 2013, 07:33:34 PM
The round 24 receiver files have been uploaded to:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinpool.btc-music.com/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinblockexplorer.info/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devtome.com/files/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoin.darkgamex.ch/receiver_24.csv

The account file is at:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/account_24.csv

There were 1277 original receiver lines, so the average number of devcoins per share is 180,000,000 dvc / 1277 = 140,955 dvc. At the current price of 0.885 btc/Mdvc, that is 0.125 btc/share. At the current price of 108 $/btc, that is 13 $/share. Administrator pay is 85.0 shares, 6.7 percent of the total.

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 24, starting at block 96,000. The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#generating_the_files

The next bounties will go into round 25:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

On Alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/devtome.com#

the 3 month pageviews are 0.0000074% and the 1 month pageviews are 0.0000038%.


Title: Re: Aegis - Official DevCoin Thread
Post by: weisoq on June 18, 2013, 08:33:37 PM
Reposting this, if this is THE thread (I'd bin the 'aegis' part of the title as just confusing)

Good as the other thread was locked.

is our wiki system really primitive or something (it mgiht well be)? As I thought in wikis once you put a categories section at the bottom of your article the category pages pick it up automatically, no one has to manually go around picking out page names and pasting them into the category pages, on the contrary the category pages are automatically created/generated and updated by the software.

All my pages I put a category on the bottom of should automagically appear on the corresponding category pages. in fact possibly even if i label them as in a category that does not exist it is possible the system is intended to automatically create that category, though i am not sure on that, maybe wikipedia doesn't want new categories made up on the spot for example.

it is possible that the script to create/update the categories is not being run on schedule by the cron daemon, but if so probably a human is expected to run it periodically.

Basically all the work you did pasting pagenames in the category pages should have been done by simply running a script.

it still of course depends on pages actually having a categories section listing what categories the page belongs in.

-MarkM-

I'm not sure ...
Just to confirm for myself I tested the categorisation issue with a couple of articles and no it doesn't work automatically/isn't being run for existing or non-existing categories. Nevertheless I've tidied things up somewhat for when it will be working to make it a little more user friendly.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 18, 2013, 08:46:04 PM
As I mentioned previously, I don't think that Devtome really helps to boost Devcoin market cap. But the general idea of revenue-generating wiki is sensible.

So I'm going to implement a "commercial wiki" for Devcoin.

It can work together with Devtome since there is no exclusivity requirement: you can post your material to Devtome and get Devtome bounty for words, then post it to a "commercial wiki" and get bounty for pageviews.

So, here's the idea:

  • there will be many separate and independent 'realms' which can compete with each other, or perhaps cater to different niches
  • to create a new realm you pay some amount of Devcoins
  • each realm has its own policies about what content should be added, quality standards, etc.
  • then you need to invite writers/editors, they need to pay some amount of Devcoins when they join, this prevents spam and Sybil attacks
  • now people can create wiki pages according to realm's policies. also people can improve presentation (custom CSS), do marketing etc.
  • when somebody edits an article he rates his contribution, e.g. 100% for a complete article, 1% for a small change etc.
  • ads are displayed on each page, via a-ads or other ad agency. Also we collect statistics about pageviews etc. So we can get some rough estiamate of page's relative popularity and revenue contribution.
  • proceedings from ad shows are paid to people who edited articles, proportional to their contributions
  • some part of revenue goes to people who contribute to realm in general, like CSS, marketing, etc. It is decided by vote.
  • of course, it is possible that somebody will try to cheat, to counter this it will be possible to punish this asshole via democratic vote among realm's members
  • also realm's members can vote on policies etc
  • finally if democracy doesn't work in this specific realm members who disagree can fork it (content is open source) and start their own realm

So the way I see it, people would create realms on specific topics, like bitcoin news, bitcoin mining info, fiction, etc.

What differentiates this "commercial wiki" from other venues:

  • democratically managed
  • open source, forkable
  • automatic monetization
  • proceedings spread among contributors in a fair fashion
  • helps devcoin as ad revenue will be converted into DVC before payouts
Sounds like a hybrid between plans for a new forum with email incorporating crypto fee-based spam-proofing, and plans to build ad revenue into devtome. Do you mean as an offshoot of that new forum or standalone commercialisation?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on June 18, 2013, 11:00:43 PM
Sounds like a hybrid between plans for a new forum with email incorporating crypto fee-based spam-proofing,

Can you give me a link?

and plans to build ad revenue into devtome. Do you mean as an offshoot of that new forum or standalone commercialisation?

Well, I can do it only if it is very simple and I can control each aspect. (So that I can choose simplest solution to each problem.)

Which means standalone, unless I'll see some super-easy way to implement such forum. Perhaps making it email-centric or something.

Implementing a forum with all modern features can be really tedious, and integrating with existing software can be a real headache.


Title: Re: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: wiser on June 19, 2013, 01:07:30 AM
The round 24 receiver files have been uploaded to:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinpool.btc-music.com/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinblockexplorer.info/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devtome.com/files/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoin.darkgamex.ch/receiver_24.csv

The account file is at:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/account_24.csv

There were 1277 original receiver lines, so the average number of devcoins per share is 180,000,000 dvc / 1277 = 140,955 dvc. At the current price of 0.885 btc/Mdvc, that is 0.125 btc/share. At the current price of 108 $/btc, that is 13 $/share. Administrator pay is 85.0 shares, 6.7 percent of the total.

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 24, starting at block 96,000. The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#generating_the_files

The next bounties will go into round 25:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

On Alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/devtome.com#

the 3 month pageviews are 0.0000074% and the 1 month pageviews are 0.0000038%.

Hey Unthinkingbit,

Would it be too much trouble to post the unofficial earnings for the next round about once or twice a week so we can get an idea of where things are heading?


Title: Re: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: emfox on June 19, 2013, 02:16:53 AM

Hey Unthinkingbit,

Would it be too much trouble to post the unofficial earnings for the next round about once or twice a week so we can get an idea of where things are heading?

You may probably refer to http://d.evco.in/charity/ for some infos, specifically http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt. these file updated daily at UTC 00:30.


Title: Re: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: shakezula on June 19, 2013, 04:06:39 AM
The round 24 receiver files have been uploaded to:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinpool.btc-music.com/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinblockexplorer.info/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devtome.com/files/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoin.darkgamex.ch/receiver_24.csv

The account file is at:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/account_24.csv

There were 1277 original receiver lines, so the average number of devcoins per share is 180,000,000 dvc / 1277 = 140,955 dvc. At the current price of 0.885 btc/Mdvc, that is 0.125 btc/share. At the current price of 108 $/btc, that is 13 $/share. Administrator pay is 85.0 shares, 6.7 percent of the total.

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 24, starting at block 96,000. The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#generating_the_files

The next bounties will go into round 25:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

On Alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/devtome.com#

the 3 month pageviews are 0.0000074% and the 1 month pageviews are 0.0000038%.

This is awesome, thanks for letting me be a part of this, I love writing on Devtome!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 19, 2013, 09:04:32 AM
Sounds like a hybrid between plans for a new forum with email incorporating crypto fee-based spam-proofing,

Can you give me a link?

and plans to build ad revenue into devtome. Do you mean as an offshoot of that new forum or standalone commercialisation?

Well, I can do it only if it is very simple and I can control each aspect. (So that I can choose simplest solution to each problem.)

Which means standalone, unless I'll see some super-easy way to implement such forum. Perhaps making it email-centric or something.

Implementing a forum with all modern features can be really tedious, and integrating with existing software can be a real headache.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg2312630#msg2312630  (followed byt discussion around different forums)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg2372114#msg2372114 (coinzen)

Cheers for the info.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: emfox on June 19, 2013, 03:43:48 PM

I forgot to add before, another useful addition to the faucet would be to pay people for links to devtome from an outside site. The faucet would check to see if there is a link to devtome, and if there is send devcoins to the devcoin address on that page. Then a random time later it would check to see if the link is still there, and if so send more devcoins. This would only be for the developer of the prime faucet, and if it is not developed after two months the bounty would be opened to anyone. I suggest 6 shares for the first part, and another 6 for waiting a random time, for a total of twelve shares, are there any objections?


I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name. I used to thought if I could set a limit as high as 5 subdomains for one domain, but hey, we have many public site such as blogspot.com, you cannot do this... any suggestion to solve this problem?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on June 19, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
You can't, as even if you had them put files containing codes, they can still make massive numbers of subdomains essentially free and have their webserver show you the different code file you assigned for each to prove thay are different sites, because basically they really are different sites it is merely trivially easy to create thousands of them.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 19, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
You can't, as even if you had them put files containing codes, they can still make massive numbers of subdomains essentially free and have their webserver show you the different code file you assigned for each to prove thay are different sites, because basically they really are different sites it is merely trivially easy to create thousands of them.

-MarkM-


This. And what you're talking about is called a "wildcard" domain, where you put up a * and then you can write scripts to react based on what subdomain was input.

The only real way to make this work would be to manually review sites that are given, but even so it still causes problems as people can create new forum accounts and such.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 19, 2013, 07:26:01 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name. I used to thought if I could set a limit as high as 5 subdomains for one domain, but hey, we have many public site such as blogspot.com, you cannot do this... any suggestion to solve this problem?

Would limiting this to only domain homepages listed on Alexa avoid the problem? In other words:

http://randomwebsite.com/ would be accepted because it has a page rank (860,587) on alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/randomwebsite.com#

http://googleblog.blogspot.com would be accepted because it has a page rank (20,830) on alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/googleblog.blogspot.com#

http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2013/06/google-scholarships-recognize-84.html would not be accepted because it's a subpage:

http://aa.blogspot.com would not be accepted because it does not have a page rank (No Data) on alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/aa.blogspot.com#


Title: Re: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: wiser on June 19, 2013, 09:23:58 PM

Hey Unthinkingbit,

Would it be too much trouble to post the unofficial earnings for the next round about once or twice a week so we can get an idea of where things are heading?

You may probably refer to http://d.evco.in/charity/ for some infos, specifically http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt. these file updated daily at UTC 00:30.


Thanks!

The receiver file for round 25 is helpful.  Is there a similar page which shows each writer's to date word count?


Title: Re: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: weisoq on June 19, 2013, 09:55:48 PM

Hey Unthinkingbit,

Would it be too much trouble to post the unofficial earnings for the next round about once or twice a week so we can get an idea of where things are heading?

You may probably refer to http://d.evco.in/charity/ for some infos, specifically http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt. these file updated daily at UTC 00:30.


Thanks!

The receiver file for round 25 is helpful.  Is there a similar page which shows each writer's to date word count?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210446.msg2524087#msg2524087


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 19, 2013, 10:52:06 PM
So I clicked on the account 25 link and it says there are 0 Devtome earnings.  I added some content yesterday. How soon will the account 25 page update, or how long is the lag between time content is added and time word count from that content shows up as Devtome shares?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 20, 2013, 12:28:33 AM
So I clicked on the account 25 link and it says there are 0 Devtome earnings.  I added some content yesterday. How soon will the account 25 page update, or how long is the lag between time content is added and time word count from that content shows up as Devtome shares?

It should be updated once the script has been run again. I am sure that http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_25.csv is the link for the devtome earnings.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 20, 2013, 12:41:28 AM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name. I used to thought if I could set a limit as high as 5 subdomains for one domain, but hey, we have many public site such as blogspot.com, you cannot do this... any suggestion to solve this problem?

Would limiting this to only domain homepages listed on Alexa avoid the problem? In other words:

http://randomwebsite.com/ would be accepted because it has a page rank (860,587) on alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/randomwebsite.com#

http://googleblog.blogspot.com would be accepted because it has a page rank (20,830) on alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/googleblog.blogspot.com#

http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2013/06/google-scholarships-recognize-84.html would not be accepted because it's a subpage:

http://aa.blogspot.com would not be accepted because it does not have a page rank (No Data) on alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/aa.blogspot.com#


No. No. NO!

Sorry, lol. Alexa means absolutely nothing and is ridiculously easy to manipulate. It has no real-world benefit, other than for the lulz.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 20, 2013, 01:23:30 AM
So I clicked on the account 25 link and it says there are 0 Devtome earnings.  I added some content yesterday. How soon will the account 25 page update, or how long is the lag between time content is added and time word count from that content shows up as Devtome shares?

It should be updated once the script has been run again. I am sure that http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_25.csv is the link for the devtome earnings.

And when/how frequently does that happen? 

Lots of noob questions I know...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: emfox on June 20, 2013, 01:37:33 PM
So I clicked on the account 25 link and it says there are 0 Devtome earnings.  I added some content yesterday. How soon will the account 25 page update, or how long is the lag between time content is added and time word count from that content shows up as Devtome shares?

It should be updated once the script has been run again. I am sure that http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_25.csv is the link for the devtome earnings.

And when/how frequently does that happen? 

Lots of noob questions I know...

If you mean the script, it's updated daily at 00:30@UTC.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 20, 2013, 07:25:09 PM
1000000 DVC Howto Bounty:

Howto clone Namecoin

Requirements:
Published on devtome.com
Icoin Genesis Block generated prior 1. August 2013

https://github.com/icoin/icoin


Title: Alexa Ranking
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 20, 2013, 07:45:27 PM
..
No. No. NO!

Sorry, lol. Alexa means absolutely nothing and is ridiculously easy to manipulate. It has no real-world benefit, other than for the lulz.

Does it take more than a few dollars worth of effort to give a domain name with no real traffic a page rank?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 20, 2013, 07:49:16 PM
..
No. No. NO!

Sorry, lol. Alexa means absolutely nothing and is ridiculously easy to manipulate. It has no real-world benefit, other than for the lulz.

Does it take more than a few dollars worth of effort to give a domain name with no real traffic a page rank?

It takes no more than $0.00 to do it, lol.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 20, 2013, 07:57:07 PM
..
It takes no more than $0.00 to do it, lol.

How much time does it take?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 20, 2013, 08:03:19 PM
..
It takes no more than $0.00 to do it, lol.

How much time does it take?


Few minutes. I'll pm you.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on June 20, 2013, 08:06:51 PM
1000000 DVC Howto Bounty:

Howto clone Namecoin

Requirements:
Published on devtome.com
Icoin Genesis Block generated prior to 1. August 2013

https://github.com/icoin/icoin

There is a fundamental problem with namecoin: it isn't possible to implement a thin client which is able to resolve names. It's basically a simple proof-of-concept on top of Bitcoin, namecoin developers did not even try to implement protocol which would allow efficient name resolution...

This makes namecoin pretty much useless, it isn't properly decentralized.

Say, a browser plugin can't be a proper namecoin thin client, it will have to rely on some centralized server.

Which kinda defeats the purpose: you can as well run a private name server without this Namecoin mumbo-jumbo.

Specifically, it won't help to combat censorship: if majority of users will rely on plugins, shutting down few servers will make resolution impossible for the majority of clients.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 20, 2013, 08:18:31 PM
So I clicked on the account 25 link and it says there are 0 Devtome earnings.  I added some content yesterday. How soon will the account 25 page update, or how long is the lag between time content is added and time word count from that content shows up as Devtome shares?

It should be updated once the script has been run again. I am sure that http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_25.csv is the link for the devtome earnings.

And when/how frequently does that happen? 

Lots of noob questions I know...

Yeah the script is done at 12:30 AM UTC, daily. Just ask away!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 20, 2013, 08:23:41 PM
Quote
There is a fundamental problem with namecoin: it isn't possible to implement a thin client

I see it as a basis that can be used for various applications shared commonly using the json protocol
Quote
which is able to resolve names. It's basically a simple proof-of-concept on top of Bitcoin, namecoin developers did not even try to implement protocol which would allow efficient name resolution...

Name resolution is not the primary target of icoin, the json capability is more interesting. On the other hand when the key structure is unchanged, .chi domains could be registered into the namecoin chain by using icoin in a simple process trough key import and export.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on June 20, 2013, 08:53:24 PM
How does the android bitcoin wallet work? I think bitcoinj does all the mystic voodoo but its very lightweight and as far as I know isn't centralised in any way, maybe namecoin could adapt it?

You need to download last 36000 blocks (IIRC) to resolve names correctly. Of course, it might work now, but it doesn't scale...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 20, 2013, 09:27:06 PM
How does the android bitcoin wallet work? I think bitcoinj does all the mystic voodoo but its very lightweight and as far as I know isn't centralised in any way, maybe namecoin could adapt it?

You need to download last 36000 blocks (IIRC) to resolve names correctly. Of course, it might work now, but it doesn't scale...

The Android Wallet is not a help for the purpose of the bounty, from a financial perspective - the android app (bitcoinj) could be modified in the same way for any alt-chain, it was allready done for viarous scrypt based chains.

The Icoin chain should be more usable for Voting as example and as a decentralized json capable blockchain in general.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: emfox on June 20, 2013, 11:15:08 PM
1000000 DVC Howto Bounty:

Howto clone Namecoin

Requirements:
Published on devtome.com
Icoin Genesis Block generated prior 1. August 2013

https://github.com/icoin/icoin

I cannot get what you want, just a namecoin cloning guide?
besides, what's the relationship with devcoin?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 21, 2013, 12:12:15 AM
1000000 DVC Howto Bounty:

Howto clone Namecoin

Requirements:
Published on devtome.com
Icoin Genesis Block generated prior 1. August 2013

https://github.com/icoin/icoin

I cannot get what you want, just a namecoin cloning guide?
besides, what's the relationship with devcoin?


I too wonder what is meant by that. Also there is no distinct relationship between Namecoin and Devcoin. Competition already increases daily due to more Alt-coins being released therefore why do we need more? Especially a cloning guide where having lots more SHA-256 coins might cause even more competition with Devcoin... We need DVC to thrive and not be beaten down by competition.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 21, 2013, 12:14:32 AM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 21, 2013, 12:20:03 AM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


I'm going to put some more thought into this as well, and I'll let you know if I come up with anything.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 21, 2013, 01:21:23 AM
I have been looking at the <head> metadata </head> for Devtome. For those not familiar with the metadata, on Firefox when looking at your page, click on Tools>Web Developer>Page Source. This shows the html code and hidden metadada between the <head> and </head>. In Internet Explorer it is similar to see Page Source. I think it is View>Page Source IIRC.

This is the partial metadata for Devtome (devtome.com).

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>start - Devtome</title>
<meta name="generator" content="DokuWiki"/>
<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow"/>
<meta name="date" content="2013-06-20T18:05:08-0400"/>
<meta name="keywords" content="start"/>
<link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml"

I have left the rest out for brevity. Please note that keywords = the title of your page. So your article title will be what search engine spiders see as keywords (they will also read the page).

<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow"/> is the search engine spider code in Devtome.  This tells the spiders not to follow the index to search other pages.

On my websites I have something like this
<meta name="Robots" content="index,follow" /> which means that the search engine spiders will hit the index page and then follow every page that is linked to it.

In addition I add:
<meta name="Revisit-After" content="30 Days" /> This brings the spiders back every 30 days to revisit and link new pages.
<meta name="Distribution" content="World" /> This allows anyone anywhere to find this content.

To improve search engine ranking, I link other websites to a new websites front page (index) so that spiders follow existing established websites and then follow the index on to the rest of the pages.

Submitting a website to Google for search engine ranking takes effect in about five days and greatly increases the pages ranking, assuming the search engines can crawl all the page.
http://www.google.com/submityourcontent/website-owner/

NOTE: I am not 100% sure of all this as Devtome Wiki is using more advanced html than I am familiar with. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am self taught so some errors could be in my understanding of metadata.

1) Keywords are absolutely worthless and has been for quite some time.

2) Distribution and Revisit aren't needed.

3) Actually all of that can be removed from the header, lol. Nothing there will really impact anything.

4) If you add the site to Google's link system like that, you're going to slow down the process.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: emfox on June 21, 2013, 10:45:30 AM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


OK, got that, will implement this feature if I had time later this month.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: doublec on June 21, 2013, 11:02:14 AM
https://github.com/icoin/icoin
It's a lot easier to maintain a fork if you include all the history of the previous coin it was forked from. Without this it's difficult to merge or cherry-pick fixes that are later applied to the original coin. It also makes it hard for auditors to compare your fork vs the original coin to see if any malware or secuity issues were added. To do this now they would have to basically analyse the entire code base from the beginning. If you don't want to provide the entire history of the previous coin then providing the git repository and commit id it was based on is useful.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 21, 2013, 11:13:18 AM
Quote
Especially a cloning guide where having lots more SHA-256 coins might cause even more competition with Devcoin... We need DVC to thrive and not be beaten down by competition.
You are totaly right! Let the scrypt based chains compete only.
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=scrypt_altcoin_cloning_guide

The DVC exchange rate is not going down do to other alt chains only. The quantitave easing done to Devcoin in the last time cause it aswell.

Icoin is not about competition, its about decentralized security! All other chains exept namecoin just do what? They basicaly just can be used as a value transport medium. Namecoin and Icoin are more than just that, sooner or later ppl start to realize the value of these json capable chains.

Let me make it clear, this effort is not about competition, its about securing the next development step for realms ...

I assume that most of you guys look at coins just from the financial persepctive, but what i see is JSON, (DNS), SSH, SHA256, MM, and not realy the printed paper i can exchange for it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 21, 2013, 11:19:34 AM
https://github.com/icoin/icoin
It's a lot easier to maintain a fork if you include all the history of the previous coin it was forked from. Without this it's difficult to merge or cherry-pick fixes that are later applied to the original coin. It also makes it hard for auditors to compare your fork vs the original coin to see if any malware or secuity issues were added. To do this now they would have to basically analyse the entire code base from the beginning. If you don't want to provide the entire history of the previous coin then providing the git repository and commit id it was based on is useful.

Thanks
The original code is from https://github.com/vinced/namecoin.

There was no additions made to the code.
By now Namecoin was changed to Icoin, NC to IC and the ports to 1291/1294


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: doublec on June 21, 2013, 11:32:30 AM
There was no additions made to the code.
By now Namecoin was changed to Icoin, NC to IC and the ports to 1291/1294
I'm curious why you don't just use namecoin?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 21, 2013, 11:51:06 AM
There was no additions made to the code.
By now Namecoin was changed to Icoin, NC to IC and the ports to 1291/1294
I'm curious why you don't just use namecoin?

Cause it make no sense to bloat namecoin. Icoin is not about DNS for websites, its for authenthicity of realms and avatars (HG).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: doublec on June 21, 2013, 11:54:09 AM
Cause it make no sense to bloat namecoin. Icoin is not about DNS for websites, its for authenthicity of realms and avatars (HG).
Ok, thanks. I misunderstood what it was about from the website.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 21, 2013, 09:48:29 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 21, 2013, 10:09:47 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


Fin Shaggy has been spreading a lot of crap that he thinks helps but is making things worse. Like when he says you can get thousands of DVC that were worth $10 each for writing.

Then again, look at his thread about the Bitcoin town and you'll see that he also kills any chances of that being successful. I'm still not sure if he's trying to destroy the two projects or if he just has no idea wtf he's doing, but all he is doing is giving BOTH projects a really negative light and spreading tons of misinformation about them.

This has been going on for a while and it's a big reason why it's becoming harder to get more people on board. He's acting like he's the spokesperson for DVC and spends most of his time either lying or being a complete douchebag to people.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 21, 2013, 10:11:35 PM
Please let me know if there are any more objections against the "Namecoin Bounty" by now i count two.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 21, 2013, 10:24:02 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


Fin Shaggy has been spreading a lot of crap that he thinks helps but is making things worse. Like when he says you can get thousands of DVC that were worth $10 each for writing.

Then again, look at his thread about the Bitcoin town and you'll see that he also kills any chances of that being successful. I'm still not sure if he's trying to destroy the two projects or if he just has no idea wtf he's doing, but all he is doing is giving BOTH projects a really negative light and spreading tons of misinformation about them.

This has been going on for a while and it's a big reason why it's becoming harder to get more people on board. He's acting like he's the spokesperson for DVC and spends most of his time either lying or being a complete douchebag to people.

I thought I was the only person who saw this. Anybody who tries to help him, or look in another perspective is considered a troll. I personally think he's always high since he farms Marijuana, and he always looks high in his videos.

He doesn't think, to be more exact. He's saying, "Sell all ur stufferz for .1 cent. It's going to magically create Devcoin worth one cent." He's giving anything Devcoin related negative light. Most of his posts on other Devcoin related threads are about Devcoin being $10. Which makes the Devcoin community seem like pumper and dumpers, or utter spammers that want people to think like them.

And on the Spokesperson thing, I can kinda agree. But, if he continues doing it the Devcoin community might die. Especially since a few people think he's one of the developers of Devcoin, and is frustrated at his other idiotic ideas. (Not trying to judge him because he smokes Marijuana, but when people see things like this coming up on Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fin+Shaggy , and they think he's a developer they'd probably automatically think he's trying to pump and dump to get money for his farm.

I'm personally probably going to bring this problem to Unthinking, and then delete any posts about 'pumping n' dumping' on this thread created by him (If there's any), and also probably the main one on this thread. Not trying to be harsh, but he's doing things without thinking, and without noticing it's affecting us all. If he keeps doing it, the Devcoin community might die out a little.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 21, 2013, 10:32:15 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


Fin Shaggy has been spreading a lot of crap that he thinks helps but is making things worse. Like when he says you can get thousands of DVC that were worth $10 each for writing.

Then again, look at his thread about the Bitcoin town and you'll see that he also kills any chances of that being successful. I'm still not sure if he's trying to destroy the two projects or if he just has no idea wtf he's doing, but all he is doing is giving BOTH projects a really negative light and spreading tons of misinformation about them.

This has been going on for a while and it's a big reason why it's becoming harder to get more people on board. He's acting like he's the spokesperson for DVC and spends most of his time either lying or being a complete douchebag to people.

I thought I was the only person who saw this. Anybody who tries to help him, or look in another perspective is considered a troll. I personally think he's always high since he farms Marijuana, and he always looks high in his videos.

He doesn't think, to be more exact. He's saying, "Sell all ur stufferz for .1 cent. It's going to magically create Devcoin worth one cent." He's giving anything Devcoin related negative light. Most of his posts on other Devcoin related threads are about Devcoin being $10. Which makes the Devcoin community seem like pumper and dumpers, or utter spammers that want people to think like them.

And on the Spokesperson thing, I can kinda agree. But, if he continues doing it the Devcoin community might die. Especially since a few people think he's one of the developers of Devcoin, and is frustrated at his other idiotic ideas. (Not trying to judge him because he smokes Marijuana, but when people see things like this coming up on Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fin+Shaggy , and they think he's a developer they'd probably automatically think he's trying to pump and dump to get money for his farm.

I'm personally probably going to bring this problem to Unthinking, and then delete any posts about 'pumping n' dumping' on this thread created by him (If there's any), and also probably the main one on this thread. Not trying to be harsh, but he's doing things without thinking, and without noticing it's affecting us all. If he keeps doing it, the Devcoin community might die out a little.

Regarding his highness, he's already self-proclaimed many times that he is "high 24/7." That came from him, and has been known by the community for a while now. It's another way he's shedding bad light on the projects he "tries to help." And if you watch his videos it's pretty obvious that it's true.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 21, 2013, 10:53:46 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


Fin Shaggy has been spreading a lot of crap that he thinks helps but is making things worse. Like when he says you can get thousands of DVC that were worth $10 each for writing.

Then again, look at his thread about the Bitcoin town and you'll see that he also kills any chances of that being successful. I'm still not sure if he's trying to destroy the two projects or if he just has no idea wtf he's doing, but all he is doing is giving BOTH projects a really negative light and spreading tons of misinformation about them.

This has been going on for a while and it's a big reason why it's becoming harder to get more people on board. He's acting like he's the spokesperson for DVC and spends most of his time either lying or being a complete douchebag to people.

I thought I was the only person who saw this. Anybody who tries to help him, or look in another perspective is considered a troll. I personally think he's always high since he farms Marijuana, and he always looks high in his videos.

He doesn't think, to be more exact. He's saying, "Sell all ur stufferz for .1 cent. It's going to magically create Devcoin worth one cent." He's giving anything Devcoin related negative light. Most of his posts on other Devcoin related threads are about Devcoin being $10. Which makes the Devcoin community seem like pumper and dumpers, or utter spammers that want people to think like them.

And on the Spokesperson thing, I can kinda agree. But, if he continues doing it the Devcoin community might die. Especially since a few people think he's one of the developers of Devcoin, and is frustrated at his other idiotic ideas. (Not trying to judge him because he smokes Marijuana, but when people see things like this coming up on Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fin+Shaggy , and they think he's a developer they'd probably automatically think he's trying to pump and dump to get money for his farm.

I'm personally probably going to bring this problem to Unthinking, and then delete any posts about 'pumping n' dumping' on this thread created by him (If there's any), and also probably the main one on this thread. Not trying to be harsh, but he's doing things without thinking, and without noticing it's affecting us all. If he keeps doing it, the Devcoin community might die out a little.

Regarding his highness, he's already self-proclaimed many times that he is "high 24/7." That came from him, and has been known by the community for a while now. It's another way he's shedding bad light on the projects he "tries to help." And if you watch his videos it's pretty obvious that it's true.

Just P.Med Unthinking about it. Hopefully he decides to delete them. I don't think we're the only people that see Fin Shaggy as this.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 21, 2013, 11:00:18 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


Fin Shaggy has been spreading a lot of crap that he thinks helps but is making things worse. Like when he says you can get thousands of DVC that were worth $10 each for writing.

Then again, look at his thread about the Bitcoin town and you'll see that he also kills any chances of that being successful. I'm still not sure if he's trying to destroy the two projects or if he just has no idea wtf he's doing, but all he is doing is giving BOTH projects a really negative light and spreading tons of misinformation about them.

This has been going on for a while and it's a big reason why it's becoming harder to get more people on board. He's acting like he's the spokesperson for DVC and spends most of his time either lying or being a complete douchebag to people.

I thought I was the only person who saw this. Anybody who tries to help him, or look in another perspective is considered a troll. I personally think he's always high since he farms Marijuana, and he always looks high in his videos.

He doesn't think, to be more exact. He's saying, "Sell all ur stufferz for .1 cent. It's going to magically create Devcoin worth one cent." He's giving anything Devcoin related negative light. Most of his posts on other Devcoin related threads are about Devcoin being $10. Which makes the Devcoin community seem like pumper and dumpers, or utter spammers that want people to think like them.

And on the Spokesperson thing, I can kinda agree. But, if he continues doing it the Devcoin community might die. Especially since a few people think he's one of the developers of Devcoin, and is frustrated at his other idiotic ideas. (Not trying to judge him because he smokes Marijuana, but when people see things like this coming up on Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fin+Shaggy , and they think he's a developer they'd probably automatically think he's trying to pump and dump to get money for his farm.

I'm personally probably going to bring this problem to Unthinking, and then delete any posts about 'pumping n' dumping' on this thread created by him (If there's any), and also probably the main one on this thread. Not trying to be harsh, but he's doing things without thinking, and without noticing it's affecting us all. If he keeps doing it, the Devcoin community might die out a little.

Regarding his highness, he's already self-proclaimed many times that he is "high 24/7." That came from him, and has been known by the community for a while now. It's another way he's shedding bad light on the projects he "tries to help." And if you watch his videos it's pretty obvious that it's true.

Just P.Med Unthinking about it. Hopefully he decides to delete them. I don't think we're the only people that see Fin Shaggy as this.

We're not but the problem is he can only be moderated in our own thread. He's still a contributor to devtome, so he still has an interest in DVC as well. IIRC he's the guy that was pre-selling his DVC too (ex. saying "I need $x.xx, but I will have x DVC I can give to you in a few weeks").


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 21, 2013, 11:48:52 PM
Sorry for not being active on this thread. While I'm here, is there anything I should add? (Any new services, or Devcoin related threads.)

By the way.. What's up with recent threads like this? - Seems like a Pump N' Dump to me.. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233515.0)

Edit: Just realized most of these threads were made by Fin Shaggy. What's up with that?


One thing I'd really like to see more of is ways to invest Devcoins in sound companies.  I'm reading up on the ASIC miner DVC pass through share listed on Cryptostocks and the ASIC miner company itself and liking what I'm learning so far in terms of feeling that would be a good investment.  I'd like to see more opportunities like this.

Regarding propping up the Devcoin, here's the issue as I see it.  Right now, there isn't a whole lot to do with Devtome earnings other than trade them for BTC (to eventually trade for dollars or other national currency depending on where you live), or to just trade DVC directly to national currency.  Unfortunately, selling DVC off immediately after earning them devalues them further, which is a big problem in terms of earnings.  So, I can see the temptation to try to artificially prop up DVC value by listing them for a penny or other currently unattainably high value and trying to recruit others into doing so as well.  If that's what you choose to do as a way to help DVC, I guess that's fine.  However I don't see it as my obligation to prop up DVC value just because I'm writing for Devtome and earning them.  When it comes to what I will do with my earnings I need to make a decision based on what's best for me, and that's how it should be when it comes to currency.  Otherwise, you can try all you want to promote the currency and urge others to hold onto it or whatever, but it won't work.  There needs to be a self-interest reason for keeping DVC.  In my opinion, solid investments involving DVC would make keeping them more attractive.  If DVC is falling relative to BTC, then if I can put my DVC in an investment that makes them grow (i.e., returns me more of them) faster than the rate at which they are losing value relative to BTC, then I still come out ahead.  Without that I'd be more tempted to panic sell.  And I think the result of me putting some DVC in such investments would in turn provide positive feedback to the value of DVC.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 22, 2013, 12:45:21 AM
i agree with wiser

I suggest independent of the writings there should be a competition about the quality of the donated articles, what would according to the ranking define the amount of gained DVC funds in addition to the method of defining charity donation receivers.

I think the bounty should be defined in various layers of interest not just in one - the word count.

Factors like atractivity and emotional expirience usefullness etc. are not yet involved and could be solved by a viewers voting system

This voting based method on top of the layer of the actual one would open the window for music and video, and shape the texts on devtome aswell.

Round contests for:

the best text
for music/audio (what about audiobooks)
for video
etc.

I allso suggest a voting layer of the admin team for the contributors and vice versa.

After working out such a system the next step would be the decentralized storage place for all the results.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 22, 2013, 01:07:16 AM
i agree with wiser

I suggest independent of the writings there should be a competition about the quality of the donated articles, what would according to the ranking define the amount of gained DVC funds in addition to the method of defining charity donation receivers.

I think the bounty should be defined in various layers of interest not just in one - the word count.

Factors like atractivity and emotional expirience usefullness etc. are not yet involved and could be solved by a viewers voting system

This voting based method on top of the layer of the actual one would open the window for music and video, and shape the texts on devtome aswell.

Round contests for:

the best text
for music/audio (what about audiobooks)
for video
etc.

I allso suggest a voting layer of the admin team for the contributors and vice versa.

After working out such a system the next step would be the decentralized storage place for all the results, and this way automatisation.


The problem with a voting contest is that it becomes more of a popularity contest. The number of people who vote is usually small enough (say 5k max if you have 1 million people) that it's very easy to sway the votes in your favor, without even having to try. I've always been against this type of thing and I will continue being against it.

The only real way to determine quality of content on a somewhat fair scale is to have a person, or a small group of people, review submissions and give their own input.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 22, 2013, 01:15:50 AM
i agree with wiser

I suggest independent of the writings there should be a competition about the quality of the donated articles, what would according to the ranking define the amount of gained DVC funds in addition to the method of defining charity donation receivers.

I think the bounty should be defined in various layers of interest not just in one - the word count.

Factors like atractivity and emotional expirience usefullness etc. are not yet involved and could be solved by a viewers voting system

This voting based method on top of the layer of the actual one would open the window for music and video, and shape the texts on devtome aswell.

Round contests for:

the best text
for music/audio (what about audiobooks)
for video
etc.

I allso suggest a voting layer of the admin team for the contributors and vice versa.

After working out such a system the next step would be the decentralized storage place for all the results, and this way automatisation.


The problem with a voting contest is that it becomes more of a popularity contest. The number of people who vote is usually small enough (say 5k max if you have 1 million people) that it's very easy to sway the votes in your favor, without even having to try. I've always been against this type of thing and I will continue being against it.

The only real way to determine quality of content on a somewhat fair scale is to have a person, or a small group of people, review submissions and give their own input.

i agree aswell with this argument, so basicaly this is the layering of the voting, this system has to be worked out in a way that all actual guys in charge has a tool to work with, but by now they just have contributed texts probably page views.

ranio, what would you suggest?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 22, 2013, 01:27:42 AM
i agree aswell with this argument, so basicaly this is the layering of the voting, this system has to be worked out in a way that all actual guys in charge has a tool to work with, but by now they just the have contributed texts probably page views.

ranio, what would you suggest?

I'm still working on coming up with a working solution. Essentially what I'm working on is finding something that is very difficult to exploit. So far everything I've seen tossed out is easy to manipulate.

It's definitely an interesting discussion though, and I'm always up for hearing new ideas people have. Coming up with a great solution has been ridiculously difficult, and the more people that are able to get involved, the harder it gets (ex. with voting systems).

One issue I've been having to try and work around is the fact that non-writers are allowed to join in, as well as those that write in other languages. As a direct example of what I am used to as a writer, it's more of a tiered approach, and I think it may work here as well if it's adapted in some way (I'm also willing to help work on coming up with a solid way of handling it). Essentially what has worked the best is to turn it into what you would expect from a job:

1) You are starting out as a newbie (generally) so you get paid minimum wage
2) If you aren't doing a good job, you're let go. If you are, move to #3
3) As your skills improve, you are promoted to a higher rank (and therefore higher pay)

The hard part here is determining 1) what the ranks should be and 2) how to determine promotions.

Some people may take this the wrong way, but it's the truth: not all writing is equal, nor should all writers be paid the same. Much like three mathematics professors will get paid different wages depending on their knowledge and experience, writers for DVC should be treated as separate people. It goes along the same lines as when you hire a writer. You can find someone to write an article for you at the cost of $5, but the quality will be noticeably different from someone who has more experience and charges more. While the cost for this other writer may be $30 per article, the quality is better and they are well worth the extra cost.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 22, 2013, 01:42:54 AM
I could never see a way of doing it without a trust system. There's a lot of projects with the same dilemma so maybe a distributed trust network is the key component.
1+


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 22, 2013, 03:26:21 AM
i agree aswell with this argument, so basicaly this is the layering of the voting, this system has to be worked out in a way that all actual guys in charge has a tool to work with, but by now they just the have contributed texts probably page views.

ranio, what would you suggest?

I'm still working on coming up with a working solution. Essentially what I'm working on is finding something that is very difficult to exploit. So far everything I've seen tossed out is easy to manipulate.

It's definitely an interesting discussion though, and I'm always up for hearing new ideas people have. Coming up with a great solution has been ridiculously difficult, and the more people that are able to get involved, the harder it gets (ex. with voting systems).

One issue I've been having to try and work around is the fact that non-writers are allowed to join in, as well as those that write in other languages. As a direct example of what I am used to as a writer, it's more of a tiered approach, and I think it may work here as well if it's adapted in some way (I'm also willing to help work on coming up with a solid way of handling it). Essentially what has worked the best is to turn it into what you would expect from a job:

1) You are starting out as a newbie (generally) so you get paid minimum wage
2) If you aren't doing a good job, you're let go. If you are, move to #3
3) As your skills improve, you are promoted to a higher rank (and therefore higher pay)

The hard part here is determining 1) what the ranks should be and 2) how to determine promotions.

Some people may take this the wrong way, but it's the truth: not all writing is equal, nor should all writers be paid the same. Much like three mathematics professors will get paid different wages depending on their knowledge and experience, writers for DVC should be treated as separate people. It goes along the same lines as when you hire a writer. You can find someone to write an article for you at the cost of $5, but the quality will be noticeably different from someone who has more experience and charges more. While the cost for this other writer may be $30 per article, the quality is better and they are well worth the extra cost.

EzineArticles.com is probably the most respected article directory.  Writers contribute articles for free in exchange for the ability to backlink from a high page ranking site.  Each article is manually reviewed and accepted.  If you want quality and not just quantity or word count you may not be able to get around needing to have real people review content, in which case you have to consider a bounty for reviewers/editors.  I suppose proven writers could earn more relative to how much less effort reviewers need to expend evaluating and cleaning up their material.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 22, 2013, 03:42:25 AM
i agree aswell with this argument, so basicaly this is the layering of the voting, this system has to be worked out in a way that all actual guys in charge has a tool to work with, but by now they just the have contributed texts probably page views.

ranio, what would you suggest?

I'm still working on coming up with a working solution. Essentially what I'm working on is finding something that is very difficult to exploit. So far everything I've seen tossed out is easy to manipulate.

It's definitely an interesting discussion though, and I'm always up for hearing new ideas people have. Coming up with a great solution has been ridiculously difficult, and the more people that are able to get involved, the harder it gets (ex. with voting systems).

One issue I've been having to try and work around is the fact that non-writers are allowed to join in, as well as those that write in other languages. As a direct example of what I am used to as a writer, it's more of a tiered approach, and I think it may work here as well if it's adapted in some way (I'm also willing to help work on coming up with a solid way of handling it). Essentially what has worked the best is to turn it into what you would expect from a job:

1) You are starting out as a newbie (generally) so you get paid minimum wage
2) If you aren't doing a good job, you're let go. If you are, move to #3
3) As your skills improve, you are promoted to a higher rank (and therefore higher pay)

The hard part here is determining 1) what the ranks should be and 2) how to determine promotions.

Some people may take this the wrong way, but it's the truth: not all writing is equal, nor should all writers be paid the same. Much like three mathematics professors will get paid different wages depending on their knowledge and experience, writers for DVC should be treated as separate people. It goes along the same lines as when you hire a writer. You can find someone to write an article for you at the cost of $5, but the quality will be noticeably different from someone who has more experience and charges more. While the cost for this other writer may be $30 per article, the quality is better and they are well worth the extra cost.

EzineArticles.com is probably the most respected article directory.  Writers contribute articles for free in exchange for the ability to backlink from a high page ranking site.  Each article is manually reviewed and accepted.  If you want quality and not just quantity or word count you may not be able to get around needing to have real people review content, in which case you have to consider a bounty for reviewers/editors.  I suppose proven writers could earn more relative to how much less effort reviewers need to expend evaluating and cleaning up their material.

Ezine contributes so little with its backlinks that it's really worthless. A few years ago they were good, but the quality started dropping quickly (they accept some horrible articles -- I've tested this myself) and the value of the links went down as a result.

The pay is the huge concern to me. As an example, someone can write 1k words about a movie they like a lot easier than someone can write 1k words on astrophysics theories. Their value, therefore, is vastly different and should be treated as such.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: metazilla on June 22, 2013, 04:00:02 AM
One thing I'd really like to see more of is ways to invest Devcoins in sound companies.  I'm reading up on the ASIC miner DVC pass through share listed on Cryptostocks and the ASIC miner company itself and liking what I'm learning so far in terms of feeling that would be a good investment.  I'd like to see more opportunities like this.

...

 And I think the result of me putting some DVC in such investments would in turn provide positive feedback to the value of DVC.

Agreed on all counts. ASCMDVCPT is awesome because it generates BTC from dividends and turns them into DVC, which raises the exchange rate, and offsets all the selling off of DVC that is happening. Unfortunately, right now ASCMDVCPT shares are overvalued - I just sold off about half my shares and was able to by nearly 20x of the equivalent shares by buying TAT.ASICMINER shares instead. I think this could potentially be solved by twobits/FuzzyBear buying a few more passthrough shares and issuing more ASCMDVCPT shares for a more reasonable price. Without competitive share prices, people are just going to sell their DVC for BTC and invest in ASICMINER directly. Perhaps someone could offer a service that acts sort of like ASCMDVCPT, but with the price fixed to the TAT.ASICMINER value?

As far as other DVC investments, I'm not sure there really is any solid investment one could offer other than an investment in ASICMINER... as far as I can tell, no other cryptostock has come close. We're going to need more options than just investing in ASICMINER to convince people to not cash out their DVC.

One other solution I considered was to make some sort of service allowing people to buy things directly with DVC - think BitPay or Gyft but with DVC instead. This way people wouldn't be in such a hurry to sell off their DVC for fiat. Although of course the problem here is the service would still be forced to somehow exchange the DVC for fiat in order to actually purchase the goods for their customers.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 22, 2013, 04:15:30 AM
One thing I'd really like to see more of is ways to invest Devcoins in sound companies.  I'm reading up on the ASIC miner DVC pass through share listed on Cryptostocks and the ASIC miner company itself and liking what I'm learning so far in terms of feeling that would be a good investment.  I'd like to see more opportunities like this.

...

 And I think the result of me putting some DVC in such investments would in turn provide positive feedback to the value of DVC.

Agreed on all counts. ASCMDVCPT is awesome because it generates BTC from dividends and turns them into DVC, which raises the exchange rate, and offsets all the selling off of DVC that is happening. Unfortunately, right now ASCMDVCPT shares are overvalued - I just sold off about half my shares and was able to by nearly 20x of the equivalent shares by buying TAT.ASICMINER shares instead. I think this could potentially be solved by twobits/FuzzyBear buying a few more passthrough shares and issuing more ASCMDVCPT shares for a more reasonable price. Without competitive share prices, people are just going to sell their DVC for BTC and invest in ASICMINER directly. Perhaps someone could offer a service that acts sort of like ASCMDVCPT, but with the price fixed to the TAT.ASICMINER value?

As far as other DVC investments, I'm not sure there really is any solid investment one could offer other than an investment in ASICMINER... as far as I can tell, no other cryptostock has come close. We're going to need more options than just investing in ASICMINER to convince people to not cash out their DVC.

One other solution I considered was to make some sort of service allowing people to buy things directly with DVC - think BitPay or Gyft but with DVC instead. This way people wouldn't be in such a hurry to sell off their DVC for fiat. Although of course the problem here is the service would still be forced to somehow exchange the DVC for fiat in order to actually purchase the goods for their customers.

Thoughts?

Mmm, I think maybe an auction-type site may help out with getting a little more usability on DVC, but you're right about needing more actual uses. One thing Feathercoin has been doing that I love is that they have really been pushing for things like merchant adoption, giving a value to FTC.

DVC should work on the same type of thing, getting merchants on board. While the merchants will be converting their DVC to fiat most likely, it should happen on a much smaller rate because it helps show people that the DVC has value and that there is reason to hold it. As it is now, I agree that the valuation of the coin is pretty low, and this is due to the lack of real uses as of now.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 22, 2013, 04:33:11 AM
Agreed on all counts. ASCMDVCPT is awesome because it generates BTC from dividends and turns them into DVC, which raises the exchange rate, and offsets all the selling off of DVC that is happening. Unfortunately, right now ASCMDVCPT shares are overvalued - I just sold off about half my shares and was able to by nearly 20x of the equivalent shares by buying TAT.ASICMINER shares instead. I think this could potentially be solved by twobits/FuzzyBear buying a few more passthrough shares and issuing more ASCMDVCPT shares for a more reasonable price. Without competitive share prices, people are just going to sell their DVC for BTC and invest in ASICMINER directly. Perhaps someone could offer a service that acts sort of like ASCMDVCPT, but with the price fixed to the TAT.ASICMINER value?

That was something I was going to ask Fuzzy over on the Devcoin forum--if the ASIC Miner pass through share price was actually tied to the actual price of an ASIC Miner share, as in 1/1000 of whatever an ASIC miner share is worth these days, or if the price is merely based on how many devcoins people are willing to pay for that share on the Cryptostocks exchange.

Since ASIC miner shares have a price that's easy to look up, if they are selling for more than that on Cryptostocks, wouldn't that serve to further devalue the Devcoins?  I mean, wouldn't the exchange rate of DVC relative to BTC then adjust to reflect an equivalent value for the ASIC Miner PT share?  At any rate, it's a good reminder for me to check how the price of the ASIC miner DVC PT share translates into BTC *before* placing a buy order on Cryptostocks.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 22, 2013, 04:46:56 AM
Ezine contributes so little with its backlinks that it's really worthless. A few years ago they were good, but the quality started dropping quickly (they accept some horrible articles -- I've tested this myself) and the value of the links went down as a result.

The pay is the huge concern to me. As an example, someone can write 1k words about a movie they like a lot easier than someone can write 1k words on astrophysics theories. Their value, therefore, is vastly different and should be treated as such.

About Ezine, I was mainly making the point that they manually review submissions and will reject articles which don't meet their specifications, and that had much to do with their success.  This means that 1, real human eyes are important, may even be vital, for an effort like Devtome; and 2, specifications or standards about what is considered acceptable content is also necessary if reviewers/editors are to make any sort of objective assessment of the content they are reviewing.  The value of Ezine for backlinking and traffic generation today relative to a few years ago is probably best discussed on an Internet marketing forum, so I won't argue about that point here :)

Wondering if a good place to start exploring is with this question:  What exactly is trying to be accomplished with the Devtome?  Related to that, what kind of content would best move that vision forward?

Once those questions are answered and clearly expressed, then followup questions would pertain to the specific content requirements, and then those requirements should be clearly posted so as to attract the writers who are able to write to those specifications while encouraging writers who do not write to those specifications to move on.

Having said all that, I do recognize that part of the vision of Devtome is to give freedom to writers to be creative and express themselves, and it would seem that having content requirements would work against that.  I don't have an answer at this point.  As a professional writer I can write to just about any specifications if it's a good job.  As a creative writer, I really like the current freedom to just write about whatever I feel like writing about.  The latter is definitely easier and more fun, but is it really what the Devtome needs?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 22, 2013, 09:51:33 AM
Quote
I'm not sure there really is any solid investment one could offer other than an investment in ASICMINER... as far as I can tell, no other cryptostock has come close.

Isnt adding 1.5 to 2 TH/s (min. 5 Avalon trade-in and 3x Jupiter preordered) directly to the Devcoin chain solid enough?
GMP and DVB are a merged project operating on a private p2pool mining node (in opeation since allmost a year).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: metazilla on June 22, 2013, 11:25:05 AM
Since ASIC miner shares have a price that's easy to look up, if they are selling for more than that on Cryptostocks, wouldn't that serve to further devalue the Devcoins?  I mean, wouldn't the exchange rate of DVC relative to BTC then adjust to reflect an equivalent value for the ASIC Miner PT share?

Interesting question. My first thought was that it's actually the opposite case. The mean of the lowest ask and highest bid of ASCMDVCPT is 10404 DVC. That represents 1/1000th of an ASICMINER-PT share, so we can think of one ASICMINER-PT share as 10404000 DVC. Since 10404000 DVC = 8.22 BTC (via Vircurex), but one ASICMINER-PT share is actually worth 3.07 BTC at the time of this writing. So if you had the equivalent amount of ASCMDVCPT shares, you could sell them for almost three times the amount of bitcoins. And yes you can actually do this if you bought in when ASCMDVCPT was a more reasonable price - I turned 30 ASCMDVCPT  (1/1000th) shares into 30 TAT.ASICMINER (1/100th) shares.

I see what you're saying though. If we measured the worth of DVC by how this stock was doing, then 10404000 DVC would only be worth 3.07 BTC. I don't think this is right way to think about it though - it's better to think of the value of DVC as the exchange rate on Vircurex, because that's how you can actually sell DVC for BTC or fiat. It makes more sense to think of ASCMDVCPT as simply being overvalued. I think if this were a more liquid market, people would realize they could make more money by selling their shares of ASCMDVCPT and buying another kind of share, and the price would come down to a reasonable level, or the people trying to sell shares would lower their prices more. I think the liquidity is stifled by the small number of shares personally. FuzzyBear has mentioned they are going to get more shares soon, but I haven't heard anything further than that.

Quote
Quote
I'm not sure there really is any solid investment one could offer other than an investment in ASICMINER... as far as I can tell, no other cryptostock has come close.

Isnt adding 1.5 to 2 TH/s (min. 5 Avalon trade-in and 3x Jupiter preordered) directly to the Devcoin chain solid enough?
GMP and DVB are a merged project operating on a private p2pool mining node (in opeation since allmost a year).

I meant as far as providing a financial incentive to any investors. ASCMDVCPT paid out 34 DVC per share last week in dividends. 34 / 10404 = 0.003%.

On the other hand, DVB is worth ~188 DVC per share. Last week it paid out 0.03 DVC per share.  0.03/188 = 0.00016%. The highest it paid out was 2.7 DVC per share = 0.01%, which is better than ASCMDVCPT, but it has only been this high twice. Most weeks it is in the 0.03 range.

So while I do think DVB is a good investment if you believe in the vision of DVC and want to help out with the security of DVC's future, but if someone just wants to make money, they are going to invest all their DVC into ASICMINER. :-\

Also, I think you should probably update the info about DVB on Cryptostocks, because it's kind of difficult figuring out what you are actually investing on. Reading the actual DVB thread here sort of helps, but honestly, I'm still mostly clueless about DVB, and I'd like to invest in something that I understand.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 22, 2013, 11:36:39 AM
Also, I think you should probably update the info about DVB on Cryptostocks, because it's kind of difficult figuring out what you are actually investing on. Reading the actual DVB thread here sort of helps, but honestly, I'm still mostly clueless about DVB, and I'd like to invest in something that I understand.

I agree.  I have bought a couple shares of DVB with my faucet earnings and as a way ro learn how the site works.  But I am also unclear on what I am investing in.  I would need to know much more before I would be willing to buy in any significant quantity.

EDIT:

...but if someone just wants to make money, they are going to invest all their DVC into ASICMINER. :-\

I am guessing this is the reason the DVC asicminer pt share is currently overvalued.  That will likely continue to be the case until there are more DVC investment options.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Luckybit on June 22, 2013, 02:13:22 PM
Please review and comment on my idea to improve Devcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240540.msg2548812#msg2548812


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Luckybit on June 22, 2013, 02:14:26 PM
Also, I think you should probably update the info about DVB on Cryptostocks, because it's kind of difficult figuring out what you are actually investing on. Reading the actual DVB thread here sort of helps, but honestly, I'm still mostly clueless about DVB, and I'd like to invest in something that I understand.

I agree.  I have bought a couple shares of DVB with my faucet earnings and as a way ro learn how the site works.  But I am also unclear on what I am investing in.  I would need to know much more before I would be willing to buy in any significant quantity.

EDIT:

...but if someone just wants to make money, they are going to invest all their DVC into ASICMINER. :-\

I am guessing this is the reason the DVC asicminer pt share is currently overvalued.  That will likely continue to be the case until there are more DVC investment options.

Review the idea I just posted and if it's good that is something to build Devcoin around and invest in.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on June 22, 2013, 06:39:09 PM
Quote
I agree.  I have bought a couple shares of DVB with my faucet earnings and as a way ro learn how the site works.  But I am also unclear on what I am investing in.  I would need to know much more before I would be willing to buy in any significant quantity.

DVB is the in Devcoin nominated, merged mining part of GMP and the very first Devcoin Cryptostock ever. It supports Devcoin in a comercial way (Supporting the exchange rate to keep it stable by beeing a investment target is not the only activity). In february/march this year the project branded Roboy with the Bitcoin Logo on the head: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1510564#msg1510564.
In the last Months a decent amount of funds was sponsored to various new Developers and Projects like http://lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com. They accept now DVC do to DVB. Im realy not sure what explanation you guys need, i suggest to use longtherm investors feedback. I doubt that there is a single DVB investor that regret that he/she was/is invested in DVB.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1352000#msg1352000
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1352073#msg1352073
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1432394#msg1432394

For a bether understanding count the project value (and dividends amount) of GMP and DVB together. Merged mining means with the same hashingpower doing two chains simultanously.
Informations about the project acheivments besides just mining, can be found here: https://devda.ch/content/project-achievements
We started 2012 with around 3 to 3.5 gh/s (FPGA). By the end of 2013 we expect to be hashing with at least 1.5 to 2 TH/s (ASIC). Since the 28nm Device (Jupiter) comes watercooled, there gonna be added more for GMP in early 2014.
(Avalon trade-in is upcomming what means at least 5 Devices for GMP)
(3 KNCminer Jupiter are expected for early Oct 2013, payment is allready completed)

I would like to do something against the uncertainity of many people regarding the exchange rate. Its not the first low of Devcoin. Last year it was the same. Today there are projects about to become completed, what will definitly have a huge positive influence on the market. Guys who sell there Devcoins atm. do a huge mistake!
Tranquillo. Devcoin is here to stay.

The goal of the DVB project for 2014 is to get a EOS M280, to be able to offer 3d metal printing for Devcoins. You are very welcome to join us :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1989286#msg1989286


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 23, 2013, 03:22:08 AM
I'm thinking about creating a gambling game for Devcoin this week. I think it's going to be simple games, and not that much coding put into it. Probably a raffle game, and probably created using Google Forms since I don't have enough time to code this week.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: tom_o on June 23, 2013, 07:03:23 PM
Some of you are already aware of this, but for the rest:

cryptsy.com has delisted DVC/BTC, and added DVC/LTC

Interesting, bet they thought they might run out of decimal places. Anyone received any share payouts yet? Want to invest some of mine.


Title: Re: Marketing Faucet Award
Post by: alyssa85 on June 23, 2013, 07:53:03 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FinShaggy on June 23, 2013, 08:04:59 PM
If Devcoin/Devtome has changed your life, or even just slightly increased your standard of living, please share about it here. We need stories of faith, hope, and redemption brought on by Devcoin. Or even just "I got some coins and bought a new miner".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241403.msg2559227#msg2559227


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 23, 2013, 08:33:58 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on June 23, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.

Don't be fooled by the FUD put out by Google :) Pagerank still rules. I have a lot of websites - and while their content is excellent they all need backlinks to rank, and high pagerank links too. Forget about domains - always, always assess pagerank by individual page.  Sure a PR0 page from a PR10 domain may be outranked by a PR0 page from a PR0 domain if the latter has better onsite SEO. But a PR10 page will always outrank a PR0 page unless the former has been manually penalised by Google.

I was proposing assessing the incoming links page by page rather than based on the domain.



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 23, 2013, 08:55:24 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.

Don't be fooled by the FUD put out by Google :) Pagerank still rules. I have a lot of websites - and while their content is excellent they all need backlinks to rank, and high pagerank links too. Forget about domains - always, always assess pagerank by individual page.  Sure a PR0 page from a PR10 domain may be outranked by a PR0 page from a PR0 domain if the latter has better onsite SEO. But a PR10 page will always outrank a PR0 page unless the former has been manually penalised by Google.

I was proposing assessing the incoming links page by page rather than based on the domain.



This isn't the right place for this discussion I guess, but you are entirely wrong in your assessment. Do you need some backlinks to rank? Actually, this is also wrong, :p. Though backlinks do help. But ranking has absolutely 0 to do with PR. You can have a PR10 PAGE that is outranked by a PR0 PAGE. It all depends on how you have it optimized.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on June 23, 2013, 09:04:01 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.

Don't be fooled by the FUD put out by Google :) Pagerank still rules. I have a lot of websites - and while their content is excellent they all need backlinks to rank, and high pagerank links too. Forget about domains - always, always assess pagerank by individual page.  Sure a PR0 page from a PR10 domain may be outranked by a PR0 page from a PR0 domain if the latter has better onsite SEO. But a PR10 page will always outrank a PR0 page unless the former has been manually penalised by Google.

I was proposing assessing the incoming links page by page rather than based on the domain.



This isn't the right place for this discussion I guess, but you are entirely wrong in your assessment. Do you need some backlinks to rank? Actually, this is also wrong, :p. Though backlinks do help. But ranking has absolutely 0 to do with PR. You can have a PR10 PAGE that is outranked by a PR0 PAGE. It all depends on how you have it optimized.

Ranking is still largely about the links coming into your page. I understand that this faucet is about incoming links not the PR of individual devtome pages. The best way to assess incoming links is via pagerank.

Re the PR10 page being outranked by a PR0 page - care to share any examples?  :) I've survived Penguin and Panda and a whole host of algos and ranking is largely due to the strength of the incoming links regardless of the FUD put out by Google.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 23, 2013, 09:24:42 PM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 24, 2013, 06:33:57 AM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Will be adding it. Took some minutes to add it, but after messing up some of the main thread's BBC coding I put it on. Added.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 24, 2013, 04:55:28 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.

Don't be fooled by the FUD put out by Google :) Pagerank still rules. I have a lot of websites - and while their content is excellent they all need backlinks to rank, and high pagerank links too. Forget about domains - always, always assess pagerank by individual page.  Sure a PR0 page from a PR10 domain may be outranked by a PR0 page from a PR0 domain if the latter has better onsite SEO. But a PR10 page will always outrank a PR0 page unless the former has been manually penalised by Google.

I was proposing assessing the incoming links page by page rather than based on the domain.



This isn't the right place for this discussion I guess, but you are entirely wrong in your assessment. Do you need some backlinks to rank? Actually, this is also wrong, :p. Though backlinks do help. But ranking has absolutely 0 to do with PR. You can have a PR10 PAGE that is outranked by a PR0 PAGE. It all depends on how you have it optimized.

That is true. It is how well the SEO is optimised and the content upon the website. If the content is rubbish and not related to used keywords, then don't expect to be good at ranking, else viseversa.


..
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Nice to know theres another faucet! Lets make Devcoin thrive and increase in the Crypt-currency market!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 24, 2013, 05:01:21 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.

Don't be fooled by the FUD put out by Google :) Pagerank still rules. I have a lot of websites - and while their content is excellent they all need backlinks to rank, and high pagerank links too. Forget about domains - always, always assess pagerank by individual page.  Sure a PR0 page from a PR10 domain may be outranked by a PR0 page from a PR0 domain if the latter has better onsite SEO. But a PR10 page will always outrank a PR0 page unless the former has been manually penalised by Google.

I was proposing assessing the incoming links page by page rather than based on the domain.



This isn't the right place for this discussion I guess, but you are entirely wrong in your assessment. Do you need some backlinks to rank? Actually, this is also wrong, :p. Though backlinks do help. But ranking has absolutely 0 to do with PR. You can have a PR10 PAGE that is outranked by a PR0 PAGE. It all depends on how you have it optimized.

That is true. It is how well the SEO is optimised and the content upon the website. If the content is rubbish and not related to used keywords, then don't expect to be good at ranking, else viseversa.


..
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Nice to know theres another faucet! Lets make Devcoin thrive and increase in the Crypt-currency market!

Think you messed your quotes up, that was my post, haha. But yeah, I wanted to spread the word and I do, I also give away bigger amounts often. I'm thinking of increasing the 20DVC to 50DVC though.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 24, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
..
I was trying to implement this, it's not so that difficult, but with a problem, I have no easy way to stop people from spamming the faucet with different subdomains, e.g. one hold example.com would use aa.example.com and bb.example.com pointing to the same site to apply the faucet payment, I have no good way to determine if they are the same site, and one may generate infinite subdomains as long as he own the domain name.
..

After talking to Ranlo, no easy way to determine the popularity of a site could be found. So you could only pay people for a link on a domain homepage. That is all that is required for the current domain faucet bounty.

Later on if there is more interest, a subdomain faucet bounty would be added for you to make tracking code, or give more money to sites that you manually verify, and then your faucet could also pay for subdomains and/or pay more for popular sites.


If we're talking about the value of backlinks, why not use Google's own metric, which is Google Pagerank? It's their measure of how powerful a domain is - Facebook has a pagerank of 10 while some minor sub-domain with no links has a pagerank of 0. It's an exponential scale - so a site with pagerank of 1 is ten times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, a site with pagerank 2 is 100 times more powerful than a site with pagerank 0, etc. Also pagerank is calculated on a page by page basis (i.e. they don't just assess the domain. So you can look-up the exact page with a link to devtome.

See the following page for how to pull the api for Google pagerank:

https://code.google.com/p/seostats/

But why would we take PR as being a value of anything? Nobody uses PR as a true value of worth of a domain. It has a very slight impact on some things, but is nothing to worry about. A PR0 site can easily outrank a PR10 site going for the same keywords, depending on how each of them is optimized.

Don't be fooled by the FUD put out by Google :) Pagerank still rules. I have a lot of websites - and while their content is excellent they all need backlinks to rank, and high pagerank links too. Forget about domains - always, always assess pagerank by individual page.  Sure a PR0 page from a PR10 domain may be outranked by a PR0 page from a PR0 domain if the latter has better onsite SEO. But a PR10 page will always outrank a PR0 page unless the former has been manually penalised by Google.

I was proposing assessing the incoming links page by page rather than based on the domain.



This isn't the right place for this discussion I guess, but you are entirely wrong in your assessment. Do you need some backlinks to rank? Actually, this is also wrong, :p. Though backlinks do help. But ranking has absolutely 0 to do with PR. You can have a PR10 PAGE that is outranked by a PR0 PAGE. It all depends on how you have it optimized.

That is true. It is how well the SEO is optimised and the content upon the website. If the content is rubbish and not related to used keywords, then don't expect to be good at ranking, else viseversa.


..
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Nice to know theres another faucet! Lets make Devcoin thrive and increase in the Crypt-currency market!

Think you messed your quotes up, that was my post, haha. But yeah, I wanted to spread the word and I do, I also give away bigger amounts often. I'm thinking of increasing the 20DVC to 50DVC though.


I did get my quotes messed up:( anyway, looks like I got a new dvc faucet to go to!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on June 24, 2013, 05:43:55 PM
..
It takes no more than $0.00 to do it, lol.

How much time does it take?


Just put it into some autosurf sites as your target page to send traffic to, and assign visits, or if you have no visits credit, leave a few browsers running generating you credit. Alexa is pretty much the main reason to even bother using autosurfs at all.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on June 24, 2013, 05:52:19 PM
There was no additions made to the code.
By now Namecoin was changed to Icoin, NC to IC and the ports to 1291/1294
I'm curious why you don't just use namecoin?

Cause it make no sense to bloat namecoin. Icoin is not about DNS for websites, its for authenthicity of realms and avatars (HG).

That is part of what namecoin is for. For example your nyms in OpenTransactions can be put under an alias registered in namecoin. You don't have to put entries in namecoin into the default domain, you also have aliases and actually even arbitrary categories. Certainly aliases as well as domains.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on June 25, 2013, 01:21:18 AM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Is the "faucet" the forum thread you referenced, or is there a faucet website?  How often does this faucet pay out?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 25, 2013, 01:53:33 AM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Is the "faucet" the forum thread you referenced, or is there a faucet website?  How often does this faucet pay out?

It's the forum thread, just post there. Currently you can get it once, but if the amount increases you can get it again.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 25, 2013, 02:46:31 AM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Is the "faucet" the forum thread you referenced, or is there a faucet website?  How often does this faucet pay out?

It's the forum thread, just post there. Currently you can get it once, but if the amount increases you can get it again.

or just use a different address ..thanks

Yeah, exploit the system to screw over others. That's the kind of attitude we want around here...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on June 25, 2013, 12:36:18 PM
ASCMDVCPT shares for a more reasonable price. Without competitive share prices, people are just going to sell their DVC for BTC and invest in ASICMINER directly. Perhaps someone could offer a service that acts sort of like ASCMDVCPT, but with the price fixed to the TAT.ASICMINER value?

There are a couple of things that could make the price higher.  More people able to buy in at 1/1000 of a share, so you pay a bit of a premium  for the extra divisibility.    It also has a 1% fee vs 5% for TAT, so you potentially get more of a return over the long run, even with the current  0.2% currency conversion fees.   

Quote
One other solution I considered was to make some sort of service allowing people to buy things directly with DVC - think BitPay or Gyft but with DVC instead. This way people wouldn't be in such a hurry to sell off their DVC for fiat. Although of course the problem here is the service would still be forced to somehow exchange the DVC for fiat in order to actually purchase the goods for their customers.

Thoughts?

Better for adding value to the currency may be a bitmit in dvc?  Then people may not even convert to fiat but stay in dvc to later buy something they want.



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on June 25, 2013, 02:05:30 PM

Best would for adding value to the currency may be a bitmit in dvc?  Then people may not even convert to fiat but stay in dvc to later buy something they want.



Why don't we contact bitmit and ask them to add a devcoin payment option? At worst they'll say No - but they might say Yes.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: jaywaka2713 on June 25, 2013, 03:56:09 PM

Best would for adding value to the currency may be a bitmit in dvc?  Then people may not even convert to fiat but stay in dvc to later buy something they want.



Why don't we contact bitmit and ask them to add a devcoin payment option? At worst they'll say No - but they might say Yes.

What companies "might" do is the most important thing to consider. The outcomes are endless. We can only, but always try.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 25, 2013, 08:56:49 PM

Best would for adding value to the currency may be a bitmit in dvc?  Then people may not even convert to fiat but stay in dvc to later buy something they want.



Why don't we contact bitmit and ask them to add a devcoin payment option? At worst they'll say No - but they might say Yes.

That would raise the value. They might add it providing that they can see a profit in introducing the currency, if not they might refuse but you are right about the worst they can do is refuse. if they refuse there is still nothing lost.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 25, 2013, 11:04:20 PM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Is the "faucet" the forum thread you referenced, or is there a faucet website?  How often does this faucet pay out?

It's the forum thread, just post there. Currently you can get it once, but if the amount increases you can get it again.

or just use a different address ..thanks

Well, I probably won't notice if you post twice, or the same address twice, as I don't really pay attention to names, and you'd get away with it, but it's definately not nice what you're doing :/.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: jaywaka2713 on June 26, 2013, 03:52:21 AM
for being math geniuses i find it amazing u don't understand the ballooning share count is what made the doom of dvc...thanks ???

Please explain your point because the ballooning share count is actually HELPING it out. Devcoin is becoming more distributed over time.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on June 26, 2013, 04:23:39 AM
for being math geniuses i find it amazing u don't understand the ballooning share count is what made the doom of dvc...thanks ???

Please explain your point because the ballooning share count is actually HELPING it out. Devcoin is becoming more distributed over time.

i'm stoked cripzee( cryptsy) back up and you can still sell off DVC for LTC...thanks
U must be naive or stupid to sell dvc at 80 basis points off of 0 lol thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Besides ltc charts point lower towards sub $1 if 2.39 gives way. A close above 3 is bullish.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on June 26, 2013, 05:20:14 AM
to each his own


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 26, 2013, 09:19:23 AM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Is the "faucet" the forum thread you referenced, or is there a faucet website?  How often does this faucet pay out?

It's the forum thread, just post there. Currently you can get it once, but if the amount increases you can get it again.

or just use a different address ..thanks

Well, I probably won't notice if you post twice, or the same address twice, as I don't really pay attention to names, and you'd get away with it, but it's definately not nice what you're doing :/.

Program some way to find duplicates before getting entered into the database might help


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on June 26, 2013, 09:23:55 PM
I am not selling DVC even though I have quite a lot of them.   I believe it will appreciate in value as the projects start to show itself


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Barnacle_Ed on June 26, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
So, what exactly happened to www.devcointalk.org? There's been extremely little activity on it, despite the initial excitement over it...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 26, 2013, 09:49:52 PM
Hey there! Could my faucet get added to the main post? It hands out more then the current faucets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194307.0

Thanks!

Is the "faucet" the forum thread you referenced, or is there a faucet website?  How often does this faucet pay out?

It's the forum thread, just post there. Currently you can get it once, but if the amount increases you can get it again.

or just use a different address ..thanks

Well, I probably won't notice if you post twice, or the same address twice, as I don't really pay attention to names, and you'd get away with it, but it's definately not nice what you're doing :/.

Program some way to find duplicates before getting entered into the database might help

I don't have a database, it's a manual faucet =P. I might write a faucet, but I'm not really that strict on people duplicating.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on June 26, 2013, 11:12:58 PM
I haven't had a chance to write anything for round 25.  Anybody know when round 25 ends?  I hope the payout is better than round 24. 140,955 per share which was $13 per share came in where I predicted at less than $3 per hour.

I'm hesitant to even bother but it's good for the devcoins I do have to get more content out there so I'll try to put some effort into it.  I wonder if we'll get lots of writers from emerging countries as $3 per hour is still really good money out there.  Should be interesting.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on June 26, 2013, 11:14:34 PM
One more thing.  I was at nearly 400 posts and now I got dropped to 56.

What happened?  Why did I lose 75% of my post count?  I'm back to Jr level.  I've had some serious family issues to attend to but just because I don't post for nearly 2 weeks shouldn't mean I lose most of my posts.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 26, 2013, 11:21:34 PM
One more thing.  I was at nearly 400 posts and now I got dropped to 56.

What happened?  Why did I lose 75% of my post count?  I'm back to Jr level.  I've had some serious family issues to attend to but just because I don't post for nearly 2 weeks shouldn't mean I lose most of my posts.

You didn't lose your posts, they're still on your profile. It switched to activity now, go to the 'Meta' subsection for more information on this.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: edd on June 26, 2013, 11:22:28 PM
One more thing.  I was at nearly 400 posts and now I got dropped to 56.

What happened?  Why did I lose 75% of my post count?  I'm back to Jr level.  I've had some serious family issues to attend to but just because I don't post for nearly 2 weeks shouldn't mean I lose most of my posts.

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237597.0


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on June 27, 2013, 02:21:19 AM
Sorry I was inactive, once again. Getting prepared for college life again (One-two months away). Anybody need their service/business in the main thread? Or they need their thread?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: metazilla on June 27, 2013, 11:27:55 AM
Hey acs26, just noticed this part of the first post should be changed:

Quote
To get on a donation list, an open source developer can message me or post in an active devcoin thread. They could also post in the original induction thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18498

Since I'm now in charge of the share list, this should be changed to something like this:

Quote
To get on a donation list to receive shares of devcoin, an open source developer should message the share administrator (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=91796) or post in this thread. For more information on developer shares, see the devtome page (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#developer).

Code:
To get on a donation list to receive shares of devcoin, an open source developer should message [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=91796]the share administrator[/url] or post in this thread. For more information on developer shares, see the [url=http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#developer]devtome page[/url].


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: tom_o on June 27, 2013, 12:04:11 PM
I haven't had a chance to write anything for round 25.  Anybody know when round 25 ends?  I hope the payout is better than round 24. 140,955 per share which was $13 per share came in where I predicted at less than $3 per hour.

I'm hesitant to even bother but it's good for the devcoins I do have to get more content out there so I'll try to put some effort into it.  I wonder if we'll get lots of writers from emerging countries as $3 per hour is still really good money out there.  Should be interesting.

So wait the previous round has been paid out? I got nothing and should have had at least 8 shares, ffs -.-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 27, 2013, 12:54:11 PM
I haven't had a chance to write anything for round 25.  Anybody know when round 25 ends?  I hope the payout is better than round 24. 140,955 per share which was $13 per share came in where I predicted at less than $3 per hour.

I'm hesitant to even bother but it's good for the devcoins I do have to get more content out there so I'll try to put some effort into it.  I wonder if we'll get lots of writers from emerging countries as $3 per hour is still really good money out there.  Should be interesting.

So wait the previous round has been paid out? I got nothing and should have had at least 8 shares, ffs -.-
No, don't panic (although I'm assuming you did receive communication on you dvc address in the end? Recall you posting about it previously):

Currently ~block 95,188

Round 23 started block 85k and ended block 89k, Payments block 92k to 96k (i.e. currently paying out)
Round 24 started block 89k and ended block 93k, Payments block 96k to 100k (should start paying out about 3rd July)
Round 25 started block 93k and ends block 97k, Payments block 100k to 104k
Round 26 started block 97k and ends block 101k, Payments block 104k to 108k
etc


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on June 27, 2013, 12:58:14 PM
I haven't had a chance to write anything for round 25.  Anybody know when round 25 ends?  I hope the payout is better than round 24. 140,955 per share which was $13 per share came in where I predicted at less than $3 per hour.

I'm hesitant to even bother but it's good for the devcoins I do have to get more content out there so I'll try to put some effort into it.  I wonder if we'll get lots of writers from emerging countries as $3 per hour is still really good money out there.  Should be interesting.

So wait the previous round has been paid out? I got nothing and should have had at least 8 shares, ffs -.-

I'm pretty sure the shares haven't paid out yet.

EDIT: I'm slow.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: tom_o on June 27, 2013, 01:24:00 PM
No, don't panic (although I'm assuming you did receive communication on you dvc address in the end? Recall you posting about it previously):

Currently ~block 95,188

Round 23 started block 85k and ended block 89k, Payments block 92k to 96k (i.e. currently paying out)
Round 24 started block 89k and ended block 93k, Payments block 96k to 100k (should start paying out about 3rd July)
Round 25 started block 93k and ends block 97k, Payments block 100k to 104k
Round 26 started block 97k and ends block 101k, Payments block 104k to 108k
etc

Nice one!

Yeah I did have communication about confirming my address, thanks for checking.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ashleysly on June 27, 2013, 07:47:54 PM
I haven't had a chance to write anything for round 25.  Anybody know when round 25 ends?  I hope the payout is better than round 24. 140,955 per share which was $13 per share came in where I predicted at less than $3 per hour.

I'm hesitant to even bother but it's good for the devcoins I do have to get more content out there so I'll try to put some effort into it.  I wonder if we'll get lots of writers from emerging countries as $3 per hour is still really good money out there.  Should be interesting.

So wait the previous round has been paid out? I got nothing and should have had at least 8 shares, ffs -.-
No, don't panic (although I'm assuming you did receive communication on you dvc address in the end? Recall you posting about it previously):

Currently ~block 95,188

Round 23 started block 85k and ended block 89k, Payments block 92k to 96k (i.e. currently paying out)
Round 24 started block 89k and ended block 93k, Payments block 96k to 100k (should start paying out about 3rd July)
Round 25 started block 93k and ends block 97k, Payments block 100k to 104k
Round 26 started block 97k and ends block 101k, Payments block 104k to 108k
etc

Thats very helpful since I was wondering block payments! theres around 1800 blocks to go till round 25 ends I think


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on June 28, 2013, 12:24:16 AM
Post Deleted.

I got a complaint from the mod saying I was off topic.

I can respect that so I deleted my own post.

I am absolutely into devcoin, more than any other coin, its the only alt coin i regularly put hard earned cash in and accumulate.  There's something about it I can't put my finger on - I feel something big will happen with devcoin.

And I'm not talking about all the good it does and the fact it's the only coin smart enough to develop a business plan, but it's shocking other coins with much more cash aren't even talking about it.

I think we will soon see some major cash coming into devcoin for this reason so even if I were to ever start my own coin I would absolutely keep devcoin in my top crypto-coin investment choices cause as you say, at today's price, it's cheaper than starting your own coin.

It's just the namebrand itself, it can take many years to become well known but so far devcoin has done a great job even in that department.

Sorry for going off topic with that post.  Didn't see it - Won't happen again.  


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on June 28, 2013, 05:04:14 AM
personally i prefer devcoin because it caters to developers which is the way of the future. It already is a father coin so it has recognition in the community. Its already near zero so better off investing in this than creatig a new one with just a namechange


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 28, 2013, 10:03:39 PM
are there still plans for an open transactions for grannies - or idiots like me - and/or any way to gauge asset volumes at price, as well as prices on OT even if it's view-only?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on June 29, 2013, 01:22:54 AM
are there still plans for an open transactions for grannies - or idiots like me - and/or any way to gauge asset volumes at price, as well as prices on OT even if it's view-only?

What do you mean?  I don't understand what you're asking?  Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on June 29, 2013, 01:23:11 AM
How do I join in the administrative work in DVC?  Is there a web link or is it by invitation?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Aegis on June 29, 2013, 04:28:20 AM
Hey acs26, just noticed this part of the first post should be changed:

Quote
To get on a donation list, an open source developer can message me or post in an active devcoin thread. They could also post in the original induction thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18498

Since I'm now in charge of the share list, this should be changed to something like this:

Quote
To get on a donation list to receive shares of devcoin, an open source developer should message the share administrator (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=91796) or post in this thread. For more information on developer shares, see the devtome page (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#developer).

Code:
To get on a donation list to receive shares of devcoin, an open source developer should message [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=91796]the share administrator[/url] or post in this thread. For more information on developer shares, see the [url=http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#developer]devtome page[/url].

Changed it. Sorry for doing it so late.

How do I join in the administrative work in DVC?  Is there a web link or is it by invitation?

Normally by invitation. (Pretty sure, but I could be wrong.)
- acs26


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on June 29, 2013, 08:51:57 AM
are there still plans for an open transactions for grannies - or idiots like me - and/or any way to gauge asset volumes at price, as well as prices on OT even if it's view-only?

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-


Title: Notabot, TaxReturn, Alyssa85, Acs26, and Ranlo are the new admins
Post by: Unthinkingbit on June 30, 2013, 06:25:13 AM
The new devcoin admins, in decreasing order of seniority, are Notabot (Fheenix on devtome), TaxReturn, Alyssa85, Acs26, and Ranlo. They were given the options of:

1) Signing up writers, along with Fuzzy Bear, Weisoq and any other signing administrators. The work would be split according to the writers' name, for example if there were three, the first signing administrator would handle A-E, the second F-K, and the third L-Z.

2) Check to see that articles meet the devtome requirements.

3) Awarding the tiny (fraction of a share) bounties, and checking that paid maintenance work is being done.

4) Investor relations. Charting the growth in words and page views. When we have advertising revenue, determine the net present value of writing a devtome article and chart the growth in revenue.

5) Make up your own job.

Acs26 was additionally given the option of continuing to admin the Aegis account.

Notabot chose investor relations, and made the charts and statistics page at:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats

TaxReturn, Alyssa85, and Ranlo chose to check articles. Acs26 chose to continue to admin the Aegis account.


The post of Promotion Administrator has been eliminated.


Admins are chosen by invitation. I look over the posts on the devcoin threads, especially the main one, and if someone who gets generation devcoins is polite, makes several informative posts, and/or helps newbies, then I'll ask that person to be an admin. If someone messages me with a request to be an admin, I'll look over their posts if I haven't already.


Edit: I rescinded the offer of other administrative work to FinShaggy.


Title: Re: Notabot, TaxReturn, Alyssa85, Acs26, and Ranlo are the new admins
Post by: ashleysly on June 30, 2013, 10:02:15 PM
The new devcoin admins, in decreasing order of seniority, are Notabot (Fheenix on devtome), TaxReturn, Alyssa85, Acs26, and Ranlo. They were given the options of:

1) Signing up writers, along with Fuzzy Bear, Weisoq and any other signing administrators. The work would be split according to the writers' name, for example if there were three, the first signing administrator would handle A-E, the second F-K, and the third L-Z.

2) Check to see that articles meet the devtome requirements.

3) Awarding the tiny (fraction of a share) bounties, and checking that paid maintenance work is being done.

4) Investor relations. Charting the growth in words and page views. When we have advertising revenue, determine the net present value of writing a devtome article and chart the growth in revenue.

5) Make up your own job.

Acs26 was additionally given the option of continuing to admin the Aegis account.

Notabot chose investor relations, and made the charts and statistics page at:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats

TaxReturn, Alyssa85, and Ranlo chose to check articles. Acs26 chose to continue to admin the Aegis account.


The post of Promotion Administrator has been eliminated. I offered FinShaggy the option of other admin work, and he chose to concentrate on writing. The offer to FinShaggy for other admin work is open, he can choose something if he ever wants to.


Admins are chosen by invitation. I look over the posts on the devcoin threads, especially the main one, and if someone who gets generation devcoins is polite, makes several informative posts, and/or helps newbies, then I'll ask that person to be an admin. If someone messages me with a request to be an admin, I'll look over their posts if I haven't already.


Having admins doing option 2 is very good as it can prevent people abusing the generation share from devtome by writing faux articles.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 30, 2013, 10:19:20 PM
The new devcoin admins, in decreasing order of seniority, are Notabot (Fheenix on devtome), TaxReturn, Alyssa85, Acs26, and Ranlo. They were given the options of:

1) Signing up writers, along with Fuzzy Bear, Weisoq and any other signing administrators. The work would be split according to the writers' name, for example if there were three, the first signing administrator would handle A-E, the second F-K, and the third L-Z.

2) Check to see that articles meet the devtome requirements.

3) Awarding the tiny (fraction of a share) bounties, and checking that paid maintenance work is being done.

4) Investor relations. Charting the growth in words and page views. When we have advertising revenue, determine the net present value of writing a devtome article and chart the growth in revenue.

5) Make up your own job.

Acs26 was additionally given the option of continuing to admin the Aegis account.

Notabot chose investor relations, and made the charts and statistics page at:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats

TaxReturn, Alyssa85, and Ranlo chose to check articles. Acs26 chose to continue to admin the Aegis account.


The post of Promotion Administrator has been eliminated. I offered FinShaggy the option of other admin work, and he chose to concentrate on writing. The offer to FinShaggy for other admin work is open, he can choose something if he ever wants to.


Admins are chosen by invitation. I look over the posts on the devcoin threads, especially the main one, and if someone who gets generation devcoins is polite, makes several informative posts, and/or helps newbies, then I'll ask that person to be an admin. If someone messages me with a request to be an admin, I'll look over their posts if I haven't already.


Having admins doing option 2 is very good as it can prevent people abusing the generation share from devtome by writing faux articles.

Yep, and with that said, if anyone happens to run across anything problematic, you can notify me and I will check it out and get a hold of the poster if I also agree there is an issue.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 30, 2013, 10:22:06 PM
are there still plans for an open transactions for grannies - or idiots like me - and/or any way to gauge asset volumes at price, as well as prices on OT even if it's view-only?

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

Thanks mark got that, no volume info/transaction history? (Vlad, this is what I was referring and long term plans or ideas I've read and listened about to enable dummies to access and use open transactions. I can't really go into more detail without just cutting and pasting other links to OT as I'm still learning about it).

Devtome admin - that's great. Appreciate some or all of you have already been working on such checks for a while, so have those roles now actually begun?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 30, 2013, 10:27:20 PM
so have those roles now actually begun?

They have! It will take us a little bit to get situated though, and get everything rolling well. And we can always still use some help from the community in policing things.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: daggerismo on June 30, 2013, 10:39:35 PM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 30, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?
Hi. If you haven't already have a read through these.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin)  (general and wallet/client info)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing)

Then send me or 'fuzzy bear' a pm with a small sample of your writing, we'll activate your account and off you go.
And ask questions if you need any help.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 30, 2013, 10:53:54 PM
so have those roles now actually begun?

They have! It will take us a little bit to get situated though, and get everything rolling well. And we can always still use some help from the community in policing things.
Cool. I'll still be looking through too, and tidying it up with others when I have time, but good to know there are now more people to run questions or any problems through. Feel free to ask me if I can ever help.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: daggerismo on June 30, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?
Hi. If you haven't already have a read through these.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin  (general and wallet/client info)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing

Then send me or 'fuzzy bear' a pm with a small sample of your writing, we'll activate your account and off you go.
And ask questions if you need any help.

i need to send you my wallet address with my text sample? and i can use any language or just english?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on June 30, 2013, 11:18:52 PM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?
Hi. If you haven't already have a read through these.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin  (general and wallet/client info)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing

Then send me or 'fuzzy bear' a pm with a small sample of your writing, we'll activate your account and off you go.
And ask questions if you need any help.

i need to send you my wallet address with my text sample? and i can use any language or just english?

My understanding is it is English only... and you must proofread your work as well. No posting a lot of run-ons, incomplete sentences, etc. Read the links you quoted for more information.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: daggerismo on June 30, 2013, 11:36:25 PM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?
Hi. If you haven't already have a read through these.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin  (general and wallet/client info)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing

Then send me or 'fuzzy bear' a pm with a small sample of your writing, we'll activate your account and off you go.
And ask questions if you need any help.

i need to send you my wallet address with my text sample? and i can use any language or just english?

My understanding is it is English only... and you must proofread your work as well. No posting a lot of run-ons, incomplete sentences, etc. Read the links you quoted for more information.

ok, unfortunately english not work for me, i speak english but not very well... thanks for all :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on June 30, 2013, 11:55:40 PM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?
Hi. If you haven't already have a read through these.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin  (general and wallet/client info)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing

Then send me or 'fuzzy bear' a pm with a small sample of your writing, we'll activate your account and off you go.
And ask questions if you need any help.

i need to send you my wallet address with my text sample? and i can use any language or just english?
No just the writing sample and your devtome username, not your dvc address. Edit: just seen your post, it's english but that doesn't have to be english literature or poetry, could be factual information, a scientific/technical/sport topic that interests you. Have a look through topics devtome.com (http://devtome.com) for some examples.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on July 01, 2013, 05:27:59 AM
i want earn some Devcoins by writing, i already registered on devtome, now what? i mean, what i need to do now to start writting and earn some dvcs?
Hi. If you haven't already have a read through these.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin  (general and wallet/client info)
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_to_get_setup_earning_devcoins_by_writing

Then send me or 'fuzzy bear' a pm with a small sample of your writing, we'll activate your account and off you go.
And ask questions if you need any help.

i need to send you my wallet address with my text sample? and i can use any language or just english?

My understanding is it is English only... and you must proofread your work as well. No posting a lot of run-ons, incomplete sentences, etc. Read the links you quoted for more information.

ok, unfortunately english not work for me, i speak english but not very well... thanks for all :)

I could proof-read and fix errors in your work if you still want to go on Devtome.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alex0909 on July 01, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
I know it's not the purpose of devcoin to get a marketplace and so on, but price is collapsing since a lot of people are dumping devcoin, what can we do about this? devcoin's are cheap its an appropriate time to buy ! it can only go up!

What are the plans for late 2013?


Title: What Happened to Archaeology?
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 01, 2013, 07:23:20 PM
Fuzzy Bear's article Archaeology was deleted:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

Could whoever did that please contact Fuzzy Bear and say why it was deleted? Also, if anyone ever wants to delete an article, you must contact the author first.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 01, 2013, 07:47:01 PM
Fuzzy Bear's article Archaeology was deleted:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

Could whoever did that please contact Fuzzy Bear and say why it was deleted? Also, if anyone ever wants to delete an article, you must contact the author first.


Ouch... you would think it would log the person who made the changes (like it does with article changes)... maybe weisoq can see that information?


Title: Re: What Happened to Archaeology?
Post by: weisoq on July 01, 2013, 08:00:56 PM
Fuzzy Bear's article Archaeology was deleted:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

Could whoever did that please contact Fuzzy Bear and say why it was deleted? Also, if anyone ever wants to delete an article, you must contact the author first.

That was me and yes I'll contact him. I've been slowly going through all the devtome articles and topics to categorise and file them as its not generally being done automatically or manually. Where main topics aren't listed as categories I created them, where they already existed as clear heading only I switched them, except where clearly somebody's listed article such as:

Health: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=health

So the archaeology article is now now here as a category: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=category:archaeology ...

... with the addition of newer sub-articles headings (such as on 'egyptian pyramids').

I check each page before I amend any and I didn't appreciate the archaeology article as it stood was on anybody's list, however I've now restored it to the original:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

So my mistake if it was intended to remain as is - as part of an invoice - and so apologies to fuzzy - it's now back. I'll leave it to somebody else as to whether to sub-categorise etc


Title: Re: What Happened to Archaeology?
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 01, 2013, 10:04:12 PM
Fuzzy Bear's article Archaeology was deleted:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

Could whoever did that please contact Fuzzy Bear and say why it was deleted? Also, if anyone ever wants to delete an article, you must contact the author first.

That was me and yes I'll contact him. I've been slowly going through all the devtome articles and topics to categorise and file them as its not generally being done automatically or manually. Where main topics aren't listed as categories I created them, where they already existed as clear heading only I switched them, except where clearly somebody's listed article such as:

Health: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=health

So the archaeology article is now now here as a category: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=category:archaeology ...

... with the addition of newer sub-articles headings (such as on 'egyptian pyramids').

I check each page before I amend any and I didn't appreciate the archaeology article as it stood was on anybody's list, however I've now restored it to the original:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

So my mistake if it was intended to remain as is - as part of an invoice - and so apologies to fuzzy - it's now back. I'll leave it to somebody else as to whether to sub-categorise etc

http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/200H/i/2012/004/1/d/roseluck___table_flip_by_cptofthefriendship-d4lbrbe.png

Hehe nah that cool ty for the explanation and restoring the page, I appreciate the work u are doing by sorting through the articles so ty :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 01, 2013, 11:05:14 PM
Ok because that's made me paranoid I've just checked through every writers page to make sure that hasn't happened to any others that I misinterpreted as a stub or header. There were no other 'deleted' pages (only a couple I think yet to be started/self-deleted by devtome_writer - Human_Cybernetic_Enhancement & Solid_Fuel_Gasifiers). Feel free to check for yourself though, and while you're there you could file them...

Also fwiw no article of an existing writer is actually ever deleted in Devtome, at least that I can work out. If you/anybody else does apparently delete one, to restore it: Select the (apparently deleted, red text) article - click on 'create this page' - type in anything (e.g. 'test') - save - then select 'old revisions - pick the one you want of all historial versions - 'edit this page' - save.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 01, 2013, 11:16:34 PM
Ok because that's made me paranoid I've just checked through every writers page to make sure that hasn't happened to any others that I misinterpreted as a stub or header. There were no other 'deleted' pages (only a couple I think yet to be started/self-deleted by devtome_writer - Human_Cybernetic_Enhancement & Solid_Fuel_Gasifiers). Feel free to check for yourself though, and while you're there you could file them...

Also fwiw no article of an existing writer is actually ever deleted in Devtome, at least that I can work out. If you/anybody else does apparently delete one, to restore it: Select the (apparently deleted, red text) article - click on 'create this page' - type in anything (e.g. 'test') - save - then select 'old revisions - pick the one you want of all historial versions - 'edit this page' - save.

Wow, that is awesome news. Thanks for that. I wasn't sure how we could restore articles once they're deleted, and for some reason the idea of "editing" in a new article so you can see previous revisions skipped my idea thinktank.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 02, 2013, 12:27:44 AM
Can I get http://devcointalk.org/ added to the OP on this thread as a forum for devcoin ?? had a nice flourish of new users, and still more trickling in, the site's got a number of nice little features setup like a news ticker....
1DVC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1DVC/BTC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/DVC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/USD.png

also members can request to be in the Devtome writers and admin group on the forum... just a nice place to hang out for gentle devcoin devtome related chat :)

and I trying to do something clever with posts from this main thread to be cross posted on there.... any stuff to make it a one stop shop to daily check up on various devcoin related stuff... etc so any suggestions please say.... something like showing latests posts on devtome.. and other network and devtome stats

but anyway the site was announced a little while back but never promoted or advertised so this is me pushing it.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 02, 2013, 01:14:10 AM
Fuzzy Bear's article Archaeology was deleted:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

Could whoever did that please contact Fuzzy Bear and say why it was deleted? Also, if anyone ever wants to delete an article, you must contact the author first.


Ouch... you would think it would log the person who made the changes (like it does with article changes)... maybe weisoq can see that information?

This is what I was talking about weeks ago when I said the current system had no security in place and just one hater or someone from a competing coin could wreak havoc the day before a payout.  It would be impossible to restore articles to their normal place of dozens of people lose their work or have it altered.

A full delete should never be allowed without a higher level access and then have an auto-log which tracks all deletes.  I keep all my work backed on my laptop but many might not.  And it would still be a hassle just to replace that much work.  It's only a matter of time.

Edit:  thanks weisoq, its nice to know nothing can be really deleted.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 02, 2013, 01:16:30 AM
Fuzzy Bear's article Archaeology was deleted:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=archaeology

Could whoever did that please contact Fuzzy Bear and say why it was deleted? Also, if anyone ever wants to delete an article, you must contact the author first.


Ouch... you would think it would log the person who made the changes (like it does with article changes)... maybe weisoq can see that information?

This is what I was talking about weeks ago when I said the current system had no security in place and just one hater or someone from a competing coin could wreak havoc the day before a payout.  It would be impossible to restore articles to their normal place of dozens of people lose their work or have it altered.

A full delete should never be allowed without a higher level access and then have an auto-log which tracks all deletes.  I keep all my work backed on my laptop but many might not.  And it would still be a hassle just to replace that much work.  It's only a matter of time.

This would be a good idea. For those of us in charge of taking care of checking out articles, we could be put in to a special group where if people try to delete an article or wipe it, it would go in to a queue for us to look into and either accept or deny the changes. I think that would be a perfect solution.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 02, 2013, 03:12:07 AM
Guys, how do I start my own thread?  I don't want to post off topic stuff on here but I also can't find a thread for what I wanna post but I can't seem to be able to start my own thread.

So how do I start my own thread?  And please don't tell me I don't have enough coins under my name cause I had a Sr level account with nearly 400 posts but now with the new rules I got knocked Down to a lower level and everytime I post it still says 70 posts.  I really don't like this new system.  Looks like I have to find a Mickey thread and just troll it out with mindless 3 word posts.  

I understand the need to keep trolls out but I should be getting credit for my few daily posts and I've been stuck at 70 posts (exactly) for 4 days now and I've been posting a few posts everyday.  I think this new system needs some tweaking.  

Thanks in advance!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 02, 2013, 03:20:31 AM
Now something on topic:

Anybody hear of Martin Armstrong?

The guy is a super brilliant economist.  As a wannabe economist I thought I knew them all.  I have no idea how I missed this guy.  This guy has one of the most amazing minds I've ever seen.  

At any rate, he thinks alternative currencies are gonna go gaga cause the "state" started Bitcoin and anything the govt wants is nowadays always funded by big "special-interest" money - the biggest of which are banks and that means strap on your seat-belts cause if he's right (and I've written the same eerily, exact stuff for the past 10 weeks) then all alt coins will take off as demand will greatly outstrip supply for the short run.

The argument outlined by Armstrong and myself is that a digital currency in the hands of banks and the govt would give them absolute control on every level and lead to the biggest totalitarian state the world has ever seen.  The more reason one needs to make money on this next wave if it comes, as it's gonna be "Gatica" after that.

The coming alt coin mania should make the dot com bubble look like the housing bubble of the 70's.  Of course everyone knows housing went up like 1.2% during that entire decade.  Lol.

But it's gonna be fast and incredibly furious, lasting at most 2-3 years before the govt takes full control and kills all but one crypto-coin.  Anybody who gets in early, like right now and holds on and doesn't sell at the first spike can become a millionaire.  Can devcoin be that one coin?  Well, from a social, political and economics point of view, devcoin is the perfect sell and fit, and the perfect coin from the view of any or most governments.  So like I've said, devcoin is a long term hold, 24-36 months.

Mine 'em, buy 'em, and shelf 'em!

Take care and good luck guys!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 02, 2013, 04:05:14 AM
Guys, how do I start my own thread?  I don't want to post off topic stuff on here but I also can't find a thread for what I wanna post but I can't seem to be able to start my own thread.

So how do I start my own thread?  And please don't tell me I don't have enough coins under my name cause I had a Sr level account with nearly 400 posts but now with the new rules I got knocked Down to a lower level and everytime I post it still says 70 posts.  I really don't like this new system.  Looks like I have to find a Mickey thread and just troll it out with mindless 3 word posts.  

When you are at the level that lists all the threads, look for a link to 'new topic'. 

Quote
I understand the need to keep trolls out but I should be getting credit for my few daily posts and I've been stuck at 70 posts (exactly) for 4 days now and I've been posting a few posts everyday.  I think this new system needs some tweaking.  

Thanks in advance!

You are misunderstanding the system.  The 70 is not your number of posts, but a level that is based on a combination of post count and posting activities sliced into two week periods. This was done, just so your idea of finding a thread to make mindless posts into would not help boost your rank more quickly.


Title: Devcoin Logo Vote
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 02, 2013, 06:33:25 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0

Please vote on a scale of 0 to 99 (http://rangevoting.org/Why99.html), for your favorite logos from the gallery (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#logo). Whatever you do not vote for will be considered a zero. Voters will automatically be recused from voting on their own logo. Please use a format like:

Alice: 74
Bob: 98
Carol: 62

The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 02, 2013, 06:57:58 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0

Please vote on a scale of 0 to 99 (http://rangevoting.org/Why99.html), for your favorite logos from the gallery (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#logo). Whatever you do not vote for will be considered a zero. Voters will automatically be recused from voting on their own logo. Please use a format like:

Alice: 74
Bob: 98
Carol: 62

The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.


Done! Is the logo going to be used in the DVC client as well, or just on the site?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 02, 2013, 07:08:38 AM
..
Done! Is the logo going to be used in the DVC client as well, or just on the site?

Everywhere, and thanks for voting!


Title: Re: Devcoin Logo Vote
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 02, 2013, 07:12:53 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0

Please vote on a scale of 0 to 99 (http://rangevoting.org/Why99.html), for your favorite logos from the gallery (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#logo). Whatever you do not vote for will be considered a zero. Voters will automatically be recused from voting on their own logo. Please use a format like:

Alice: 74
Bob: 98
Carol: 62

The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.


There's no place to vote on that devtome page aegis linked to on the devcoin thread you just linked to, and I did log in and I did get paid shares the last 2 rounds.

So you want us to look at all those designs and then vote on a thread here (the aegis thread you linked to)?  

So how many designs can we vote for, this is not clear to me?  It looks like you're saying vote on your top 3 favorites but that's not clear and some people are only voting for one design while one guy voted for 2 designs.  

It's gonna be out of whack if we don't use the same standard for everyone.

Please clarify.  Thanks.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 02, 2013, 07:14:32 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0

Please vote on a scale of 0 to 99 (http://rangevoting.org/Why99.html), for your favorite logos from the gallery (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#logo). Whatever you do not vote for will be considered a zero. Voters will automatically be recused from voting on their own logo. Please use a format like:

Alice: 74
Bob: 98
Carol: 62

The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.


There's no place to vote on that devtome page aegis linked to on the devcoin you linked to, and I did log in and I did get paid shares the last 2 rounds.

So you want us to look at all those designs and then vote on a thread here (the aegis thread you linked to)?  So how many designs can we vote for, this is not clear to me?  It looks like you're saying vote on your top 3 favorites but that's not clear and some people are only voting for one design while one guy voted for 2 designs. 

It's gonna be out of whack if we don't use the same standard for everyone.

Please clarify.  Thanks.

In the post you quoted, he gave the link to where you vote at...

And he said any one you don't vote for gets a score of zero, meaning vote for all if you want. If you choose not to, the ones you don't vote for get a 0.

I don't get what was confusing, :p.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 02, 2013, 07:18:58 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0

Please vote on a scale of 0 to 99 (http://rangevoting.org/Why99.html), for your favorite logos from the gallery (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#logo). Whatever you do not vote for will be considered a zero. Voters will automatically be recused from voting on their own logo. Please use a format like:

Alice: 74
Bob: 98
Carol: 62

The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.


There's no place to vote on that devtome page aegis linked to on the devcoin you linked to, and I did log in and I did get paid shares the last 2 rounds.

So you want us to look at all those designs and then vote on a thread here (the aegis thread you linked to)?  So how many designs can we vote for, this is not clear to me?  It looks like you're saying vote on your top 3 favorites but that's not clear and some people are only voting for one design while one guy voted for 2 designs.  

It's gonna be out of whack if we don't use the same standard for everyone.

Please clarify.  Thanks.

In the post you quoted, he gave the link to where you vote at...

And he said any one you don't vote for gets a score of zero, meaning vote for all if you want. If you choose not to, the ones you don't vote for get a 0.

I don't get what was confusing, :p.

Ok, the thread I get but if people vote for differing amounts that creates a lopsided effect.  For example, 10% of people here will be more active or have more time so they'll vote for many more deigns.  So those X number of designs are getting free votes.  

The reason is that everyone voting has a feeling or a vote regarding all the designs but they're just not expressing them for whatever reason.

We need uniformity.

So everyone who votes, everyone, should have to take the time to choose your top 3 favorite and then assign those top 3 whatever numbers you want.  That way it will be an even and uniform voting protocol and the best or most liked design will win rather than the design which happened to be liked by the busiest or more free Time having individuals.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Aegis on July 02, 2013, 07:38:40 AM
Can I get http://devcointalk.org/ added to the OP on this thread as a forum for devcoin ?? had a nice flourish of new users, and still more trickling in, the site's got a number of nice little features setup like a news ticker....
1DVC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1DVC/BTC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/DVC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/USD.png

also members can request to be in the Devtome writers and admin group on the forum... just a nice place to hang out for gentle devcoin devtome related chat :)

and I trying to do something clever with posts from this main thread to be cross posted on there.... any stuff to make it a one stop shop to daily check up on various devcoin related stuff... etc so any suggestions please say.... something like showing latests posts on devtome.. and other network and devtome stats

but anyway the site was announced a little while back but never promoted or advertised so this is me pushing it.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

I just added it as 'The Unofficial Devcoin Forums' (Not sure if it's official, or not.). Would you like 'Devcoin Talk' instead?

-acs26


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 02, 2013, 07:48:32 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0

Please vote on a scale of 0 to 99 (http://rangevoting.org/Why99.html), for your favorite logos from the gallery (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery#logo). Whatever you do not vote for will be considered a zero. Voters will automatically be recused from voting on their own logo. Please use a format like:

Alice: 74
Bob: 98
Carol: 62

The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.


There's no place to vote on that devtome page aegis linked to on the devcoin you linked to, and I did log in and I did get paid shares the last 2 rounds.

So you want us to look at all those designs and then vote on a thread here (the aegis thread you linked to)?  So how many designs can we vote for, this is not clear to me?  It looks like you're saying vote on your top 3 favorites but that's not clear and some people are only voting for one design while one guy voted for 2 designs. 

It's gonna be out of whack if we don't use the same standard for everyone.

Please clarify.  Thanks.

In the post you quoted, he gave the link to where you vote at...

And he said any one you don't vote for gets a score of zero, meaning vote for all if you want. If you choose not to, the ones you don't vote for get a 0.

I don't get what was confusing, :p.

Ok, the thread I get but if people vote for differing amounts that creates a lopsided effect.  For example, 10% of people here will be more active or have more time so they'll vote for many more deigns.  So those X number of designs are getting free votes. 

The reason is that everyone voting has a feeling or a vote regarding all the designs but they're just not expressing them for whatever reason.

We need uniformity.

So everyone who votes, everyone, should have to take the time to choose your top 3 favorite and then assign those top 3 whatever numbers you want.  That way it will be an even and uniform voting protocol and the best or most liked design will win rather than the design which happened to be liked by the busiest or more free Time having individuals.

The voting situation is irrelevant as to how we vote. The majority of people aren't going to vote just because people don't like to vote. Look at voting in presidential elections or other areas. No matter how you do it, you're still only going to get a small group of people, and the results will always be biased. There's no way around that.

This voting is allowing you to say, for example, "I like this one and this one equally. I think this one's alright, but I like the other two more. This other one I don't like at all." An example there would be 99, 99, 90, 0. They are giving us more options, and more options should never be taken as being a bad thing.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 02, 2013, 08:34:51 AM
This would be a good idea. For those of us in charge of taking care of checking out articles, we could be put in to a special group where if people try to delete an article or wipe it, it would go in to a queue for us to look into and either accept or deny the changes. I think that would be a perfect solution.
On the main devtome page....to the left there's 'Recent Changes' - select it to show several pages worth of them; all and any edits are listed there, including deletions.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 02, 2013, 08:45:14 AM
This would be a good idea. For those of us in charge of taking care of checking out articles, we could be put in to a special group where if people try to delete an article or wipe it, it would go in to a queue for us to look into and either accept or deny the changes. I think that would be a perfect solution.
On the main devtome page....to the left there's 'Recent Changes' - select it to show several pages worth of them; all and any edits are listed there, including deletions.

Got you. That works too! Thanks, :p.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 02, 2013, 11:31:37 AM
Can I get http://devcointalk.org/ added to the OP on this thread as a forum for devcoin ?? had a nice flourish of new users, and still more trickling in, the site's got a number of nice little features setup like a news ticker....
1DVC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1DVC/BTC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/DVC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/USD.png

also members can request to be in the Devtome writers and admin group on the forum... just a nice place to hang out for gentle devcoin devtome related chat :)

and I trying to do something clever with posts from this main thread to be cross posted on there.... any stuff to make it a one stop shop to daily check up on various devcoin related stuff... etc so any suggestions please say.... something like showing latests posts on devtome.. and other network and devtome stats

but anyway the site was announced a little while back but never promoted or advertised so this is me pushing it.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

I just added it as 'The Unofficial Devcoin Forums' (Not sure if it's official, or not.). Would you like 'Devcoin Talk' instead?

-acs26

Thank you for adding, and yes please list it as "Devcoin Talk Forum" if that is ok?

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 02, 2013, 12:39:36 PM
Ok we REALLY need to update all the places that people can download the devcoin client from as it is causing sooo much extra work.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212558.msg2634774#msg2634774

Many thanks

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 02, 2013, 06:40:29 PM
Now something on topic:

Anybody hear of Martin Armstrong?

The guy is a super brilliant economist.  As a wannabe economist I thought I knew them all.  I have no idea how I missed this guy.  This guy has one of the most amazing minds I've ever seen.  

At any rate, he thinks alternative currencies are gonna go gaga cause the "state" started Bitcoin and anything the govt wants is nowadays always funded by big "special-interest" money - the biggest of which are banks and that means strap on your seat-belts cause if he's right (and I've written the same eerily, exact stuff for the past 10 weeks) then all alt coins will take off as demand will greatly outstrip supply for the short run.

The argument outlined by Armstrong and myself is that a digital currency in the hands of banks and the govt would give them absolute control on every level and lead to the biggest totalitarian state the world has ever seen.  The more reason one needs to make money on this next wave if it comes, as it's gonna be "Gatica" after that.

The coming alt coin mania should make the dot com bubble look like the housing bubble of the 70's.  Of course everyone knows housing went up like 1.2% during that entire decade.  Lol.

But it's gonna be fast and incredibly furious, lasting at most 2-3 years before the govt takes full control and kills all but one crypto-coin.  Anybody who gets in early, like right now and holds on and doesn't sell at the first spike can become a millionaire.  Can devcoin be that one coin?  Well, from a social, political and economics point of view, devcoin is the perfect sell and fit, and the perfect coin from the view of any or most governments.  So like I've said, devcoin is a long term hold, 24-36 months.

Mine 'em, buy 'em, and shelf 'em!

Take care and good luck guys!

If banks were to go to the crypto route by choice instead of being forced then why wouldn't they create their own like ripple and then force the people through law to abide by the new currency instead of usdx cadx etc? Why would they take a crypto that has been mined and owned with large amounts to people of the public? That goes against their special interests as banks and social elites?

Good question to ask is why would the bank "go to" any of these crypto's and claim it to be their own and use it. I would have thought that the people would use it and stop using fiat forcing banks to turn to the crypto's or go bankrupt. Only wya for this to happen is for websites to popup accepting crypto's aswell as consumer space and wage's to be paid out in crypto's... that is the only way. When employers/consumer electronics jump on the train then we are in, as at that point the banks wont be able to finance their own debt as no more loans are taken out in fiat currency (new lenders of crypto's open up, unregulated by law but regulated by the people through a trust system). The scam list will grow at first but people will learn there is more money to be made by simply providing a true service rather than scamming and a few large crypto lenders will open up.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 02, 2013, 09:39:09 PM
Now something on topic: Anybody hear of Martin Armstrong? ... digital currency ...
Not quite devcoin specific thread material but... Digital currency - has been the wet dream of central bankers for a long time. An FT blog writes about it quite often - e.g.  guest-post-the-case-for-digital-tender (http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/04/16/1462192/) and  the-case-for-official-e-money-1 (http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/06/17/1536352/). You have to sign up to read them if interested but there's no charge. I also doubt you'll agree with everything they say - neither did I - but worth a read in my opinion. Armstrong - quite a controversial bloke, not necessarily a bad thing, but a lot of opinions that are hard to completely reconcile with previous ones over time, and with a liking for very vague writings could fit him into the pay to hear you what you want hear conference type. However he does make some interesting points and observations at times, especially on counter-conventional trends and thoughts. He also has his own site somewhere if you google.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 03, 2013, 01:45:46 AM
Bitcoin going to wallstreet and then soon MainStreet.  Like I've been saying since I got here, alternative coins are gonna sky rocket as soon as bitcoin goes mainstream which should be by next year.


ETF for Bitcoin coming which will change the whole idea of alt coins which will bring in the masses and wallstreet.  Hang on, it's gonna all start very soon:



http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/first-name-in-the-first-fund-for-bitcoins-winklevoss/?_r=0

Edit:

@Sidnujag:  

no, forcing people would never work and why do all the work of millions of programmers when you can let capitalism find the best route, best coin and at the same time have it catch fire cause people think they're going against the status quo.

One executive order can confiscate bitcoin in defense of national security.  That's simple.  Or you think they legally took everyone's gold back in the 30's but no way they can confiscate a fake currency laundering billions and which is not controlled by anyone?  Let's get real.

@WeisoQ:  

I see your point and I agree on Armstrong.  This is all relevant to devcoin because devcoin and all alt coins have their value and destiny pegged to bitcoin.  If bitcoin goes mainstream then devcoin et al will soon follow.  

If bitcoin gets an ETF then soon there will be an alt currency ETF which will bring billions in fresh speculative dollar investments.  I've been saying all along its all gonna blow up bigger than the dot com bubble and now that I see this ETF news I'm even more convinced.  I didn't expect an ETF so soon, this is actually moving faster than even I thought.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: gweedo on July 03, 2013, 01:59:55 AM
Bitcoin going to wallstreet and then soon MainStreet.  Like I've been saying since I got here, alternative coins are gonna sky rocket as soon as bitcoin goes mainstream which should be by next year.

Uhmm bitcoins are in the process of going mainstream and their really isn't a set date, you can't predict those things. I really doubt that alt coins will take off, they will have an even harder up hill battle, many people in bitcoins don't see alt coins as anything different than bitcoins. So yeah alt coins going mainstream is probably not going to happen for a couple years.

If bitcoin gets an ETF then soon there will be an alt currency ETF which will bring billions in fresh speculative dollar investments.  I've been saying all along its all gonna blow up bigger than the dot com bubble and now that I see this ETF news I'm even more convinced.  I didn't expect an ETF so soon, this is actually moving faster than even I thought.

Their won't be an alt currency ETF, they take a lot to get started, and many alt coins are way to young for it. You also need someone powerful and has an army of lawyer and a lot of money to even get to a position to start an ETF.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 03, 2013, 02:40:17 AM
are there still plans for an open transactions for grannies - or idiots like me - and/or any way to gauge asset volumes at price, as well as prices on OT even if it's view-only?

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

Thanks mark got that, no volume info/transaction history? (Vlad, this is what I was referring and long term plans or ideas I've read and listened about to enable dummies to access and use open transactions. I can't really go into more detail without just cutting and pasting other links to OT as I'm still learning about it).

Each individual Open Transactions server has as part of its own markets system historical records of trades, although on my server we several times deleted all that in the course of upgrading the software.

Unfortunately though the vast majority of trade so far tends to be simple private deals between nations corps etc; the market maker scripts system we had running to do load testing and such eventually stopped being used although we still have the scripts so if the principles do want to turn them on again that can be done.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 03, 2013, 12:12:34 PM
Each individual Open Transactions server has as part of its own markets system historical records of trades, although on my server we several times deleted all that in the course of upgrading the software.

Unfortunately though the vast majority of trade so far tends to be simple private deals between nations corps etc; the market maker scripts system we had running to do load testing and such eventaully stopped being used although we still have the scripts so if the principles do want to turn them on again that can be done.

-MarkM-
Fair enough. Here's someone hoping they do get turned on again some day. Interesting price diferentials.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 04:38:22 PM
On another note...

It is July 3rd and we have hit block 96,000.  What should I expect in terms of payments for Devtome Round 24?

I'm curious how this all works on the payment end, and admittedly a bit excited too :)

EDIT:  I understand how payments are figured out.  When will I see them in my wallet?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 03, 2013, 05:07:56 PM
On another note...

It is July 3rd and we have hit block 96,000.  What should I expect in terms of payments for Devtome Round 24?

I'm curious how this all works on the payment end, and admittedly a bit excited too :)

EDIT:  I understand how payments are figured out.  When will I see them in my wallet?
Payment is made as blocks are generated, so that means that if, for example there were 10 payees on the receiver list for round 24 with an equal number of shares...on block 96,000 45,000dvc are paid out to payee 1 (50,000 x 0.9 because 10% goes to miners), on block 96,001 45k dvc are paid out to payee 2 etc until it reaches payee 10, then after that goes back to payee 1 etc etc, so that means payment is in gradual increments of 45k dvc, the number of which in reality will depend on any person's share and the total number of shares (it's not always 45,000 - depends whether whole/half/fifth shares etc but principle is the same). When you receive newly generated blocks, they have to 'mature' by receiving 120 confirmations (bascially acquire enough confirmations to make sure they're legit). You won't have to wait too long and yes it is quite exciting when you get them.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 03, 2013, 05:12:05 PM
On another note...

It is July 3rd and we have hit block 96,000.  What should I expect in terms of payments for Devtome Round 24?

I'm curious how this all works on the payment end, and admittedly a bit excited too :)

EDIT:  I understand how payments are figured out.  When will I see them in my wallet?
Payment is made as blocks are generated, so that means that if, for example there were 10 payees on the receiver list for round 24 with an equal number of shares...on block 96,000 45,000dvc are paid out to payee 1 (50,000 x 0.9 because 10% goes to miners), on block 96,001 45k dvc are paid out to payee 2 etc until it reaches payee 10, then after that goes back to payee 1 etc etc, so that means payment is in gradual increments of 45k dvc, the number of which in reality will depend on any person's share and the total number of shares (it's not always 45,000 - depends whether whole or half shares but principle is the same). When you receive newly generated blocks, they have to 'mature' by receiving 120 confirmations (bascially acquire enough confirmations to make sure they're legit). You won't have to wait too long and yes it is quite exciting when you get them.

To add on, download this file:

http://devtome.com/files/receiver_24.csv

That shows the order in which shares are paid. So if your address shows up in row 18 and 37, you would be paid in block 96009 and 96038 (as the rows technically start with #10). The number of times you will find your address in the file depends on how many shares you earned.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 05:13:03 PM
Payment is made as blocks are generated, so that means that if, for example there were 10 payees on the receiver list for round 24 with an equal number of shares...on block 96,000 45,000dvc are paid out to payee 1 (50,000 x 0.9 because 10% goes to miners), on block 96,001 45k dvc are paid out to payee 2 etc until it reaches payee 10, then after that goes back to payee 1 etc etc, so that means payment is in gradual increments of 45k dvc, the number of which in reality will depend on any person's share and the total number of shares (it's not always 45,000 - depends whether whole or half shares but principle is the same). When you receive newly generated blocks, they have to 'mature' by receiving 120 confirmations (bascially acquire enough confirmations to make sure they're legit). You won't have to wait too long and yes it is quite exciting when you get them.

Thanks, weisoq!  I think I can visualize this.  So, is your place in line determined alphabetically?  If that's the case, maybe I'd have done better by choosing Aardvark for a username LOL.  Not that place in line ultimately matters--call it first time jitters ;)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 03, 2013, 05:17:01 PM
Payment is made as blocks are generated, so that means that if, for example there were 10 payees on the receiver list for round 24 with an equal number of shares...on block 96,000 45,000dvc are paid out to payee 1 (50,000 x 0.9 because 10% goes to miners), on block 96,001 45k dvc are paid out to payee 2 etc until it reaches payee 10, then after that goes back to payee 1 etc etc, so that means payment is in gradual increments of 45k dvc, the number of which in reality will depend on any person's share and the total number of shares (it's not always 45,000 - depends whether whole or half shares but principle is the same). When you receive newly generated blocks, they have to 'mature' by receiving 120 confirmations (bascially acquire enough confirmations to make sure they're legit). You won't have to wait too long and yes it is quite exciting when you get them.

Thanks, weisoq!  I think I can visualize this.  So, is your place in line determined alphabetically?  If that's the case, maybe I'd have done better by choosing Aardvark for a username LOL.  Not that place in line ultimately matters--call it first time jitters ;)

Read the receiver file I linked; it's all randomly generated. Ex. if you have 10 shares, there are like 1.3k lines so you may be at 3, 193, 438, 590, etc.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 03, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
..
Thanks, weisoq!  I think I can visualize this. So, is your place in line determined alphabetically? If that's the case, maybe I'd have done better by choosing Aardvark for a username LOL.
..

No. The lines are cut at a place which changes each round, furthermore at each even round number they are also reversed. From the getCutLines function in account.py:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/account.py

Quote
def getCutLines(cutLines, suffixNumber):
   """
The lines are cut at a different part of the list, so that a developer whose key starts with 1A does not get more on average over multiple rounds than a developer whose key starts with 1Z. This is done by cutting the list at an index which is the golden ratio times the round number, then modulo is used to keep it within the list bounds. It also reverses the list at every even round number, in case cutting is not enough to average pay over multiple rounds.
   """
   rotation = (float(suffixNumber) * globalGoldenRatio) % 1.0
   rotationIndex = int(math.floor(rotation * float(len(cutLines))))
   if suffixNumber % 2 == 0:
      cutLines.reverse()
   cutLines = cutLines[rotationIndex :] + cutLines[: rotationIndex]
   return cutLines


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 03, 2013, 05:24:18 PM
..
Thanks, weisoq!  I think I can visualize this. So, is your place in line determined alphabetically? If that's the case, maybe I'd have done better by choosing Aardvark for a username LOL.
..

No. The lines are cut at a place which changes each round, furthermore at each even round number they are also reversed. From the getCutLines function in account.py:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/account.py

Quote
def getCutLines(cutLines, suffixNumber):
   """
The lines are cut at a different part of the list, so that a developer whose key starts with 1A does not get more on average over multiple rounds than a developer whose key starts with 1Z. This is done by cutting the list at an index which is the golden ratio times the round number, then modulo is used to keep it within the list bounds. It also reverses the list at every even round number, in case cutting is not enough to average pay over multiple rounds.
   """
   rotation = (float(suffixNumber) * globalGoldenRatio) % 1.0
   rotationIndex = int(math.floor(rotation * float(len(cutLines))))
   if suffixNumber % 2 == 0:
      cutLines.reverse()
   cutLines = cutLines[rotationIndex :] + cutLines[: rotationIndex]
   return cutLines


Ahh, just to clarify, was my statement on each line representing a single block correct, being that, for example, if your address is 5th in line you would be getting paid on the 5th block?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 05:27:28 PM
That shows the order in which shares are paid. So if your address shows up in row 18 and 37, you would be paid in block 96009 and 96038 (as the rows technically start with #10). The number of times you will find your address in the file depends on how many shares you earned.

Thanks, everyone.  Looks like I do have a few more blocks to wait out...  My understanding is it takes about ten minutes to get through one block.  Is that correct?  I've never sat there with a timer or anything.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 05:48:12 PM
Hey, my activity level went up.  Yay!  Small blessings.  Looks like today is going to be a good day :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 03, 2013, 05:52:59 PM
Hey, my activity level went up.  Yay!  Small blessings.  Looks like today is going to be a good day :)

If your day goes well enough you can donate DVC to the Ranlo Foundation. I heard if you donate at least a million the monkey in my avatar dances! Could just be a rumor though...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 05:57:51 PM
I'll give it some thought.  What does the Ranlo Foundation do?  I mean besides make the monkey dance?

BTW, when I go thru your faucet rotator, I do input your address from time to time to help keep it alive.  Happy to do it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 03, 2013, 06:00:08 PM
..
Quote
def getCutLines(cutLines, suffixNumber):
   """
The lines are cut at a different part of the list, so that a developer whose key starts with 1A does not get more on average over multiple rounds than a developer whose key starts with 1Z. This is done by cutting the list at an index which is the golden ratio times the round number, then modulo is used to keep it within the list bounds. It also reverses the list at every even round number, in case cutting is not enough to average pay over multiple rounds.
   """
..

Ahh, just to clarify, was my statement on each line representing a single block correct, being that, for example, if your address is 5th in line you would be getting paid on the 5th block?

Yes, the clients read directly from the receiver files. The account.py script cuts and reverses lines before writing them to the receiver file.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 03, 2013, 06:04:08 PM
I'll give it some thought.  What does the Ranlo Foundation do?  I mean besides make the monkey dance?

BTW, when I go thru your faucet rotator, I do input your address from time to time to help keep it alive.  Happy to do it.

Oh, thanks, but you don't have to do that, :p. To be honest the rotator is more of a learning experience than anything (I had to learn a lot of new methods on how to do things in order to get it up and running). I plan to expand on it "soon" as well. First I need to finish up with a couple of my other projects that I've been neglecting for a while, :(.

And the Ranlo Foundation collects DevCoins!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 06:17:31 PM
Oh, thanks, but you don't have to do that, :p. To be honest the rotator is more of a learning experience than anything (I had to learn a lot of new methods on how to do things in order to get it up and running). I plan to expand on it "soon" as well. First I need to finish up with a couple of my other projects that I've been neglecting for a while, :(.

And the Ranlo Foundation collects DevCoins!

Well, I'm happy to share.  I would say it has been a very successful learning experience!  I've actually "earned" rather significantly through the faucet.  I mean sure, it's not the most efficient way (one microbit at a time), but the other methods often require both hands, something that's a bit of a luxury since I have a two month old baby, not to mention the four year old who sometimes wakes him up when he's napping :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 06:19:42 PM
Yes, the clients read directly from the receiver files.

NOW I understand why we need to use an address from an actual client (as opposed to something web-based)!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 03, 2013, 07:55:24 PM
Yes, the clients read directly from the receiver files.

NOW I understand why we need to use an address from an actual client (as opposed to something web-based)!

They are unrelated.  The reason web based wallets do not work is they are not set up to handle generated coins.  This proves true for all the coin chains, not just devcoin with it's receiver files.



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 08:38:35 PM
They are unrelated.  The reason web based wallets do not work is they are not set up to handle generated coins.  This proves true for all the coin chains, not just devcoin with it's receiver files.

OK, maybe I *don't* understand.  So... what is it about generated coins that makes web-based wallets unable to receive them.  What is it about them that causes the web-based wallets to either not recognize them or reject them?  What do client wallets have that web wallets don't?

I'm looking to be educated here :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Aegis on July 03, 2013, 08:54:34 PM
Can I get http://devcointalk.org/ added to the OP on this thread as a forum for devcoin ?? had a nice flourish of new users, and still more trickling in, the site's got a number of nice little features setup like a news ticker....
1DVC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1DVC/BTC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/DVC.png 1BTC = http://dvcticker.appspot.com/vircurex/1BTC/USD.png

also members can request to be in the Devtome writers and admin group on the forum... just a nice place to hang out for gentle devcoin devtome related chat :)

and I trying to do something clever with posts from this main thread to be cross posted on there.... any stuff to make it a one stop shop to daily check up on various devcoin related stuff... etc so any suggestions please say.... something like showing latests posts on devtome.. and other network and devtome stats

but anyway the site was announced a little while back but never promoted or advertised so this is me pushing it.

Many thanks

FuzzyBear

I just added it as 'The Unofficial Devcoin Forums' (Not sure if it's official, or not.). Would you like 'Devcoin Talk' instead?

-acs26

Thank you for adding, and yes please list it as "Devcoin Talk Forum" if that is ok?

FuzzyBear

Yes, I have added it as 'Devcoin Talk Forums'. Hopefully that is okay.

-acs26


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 03, 2013, 09:03:48 PM
They are unrelated.  The reason web based wallets do not work is they are not set up to handle generated coins.  This proves true for all the coin chains, not just devcoin with it's receiver files.

OK, maybe I *don't* understand.  So... what is it about generated coins that makes web-based wallets unable to receive them.  What is it about them that causes the web-based wallets to either not recognize them or reject them?  What do client wallets have that web wallets don't?

I'm looking to be educated here :)
I wondered this, so rather than cut/paste other people's opinions on things I know little about here's a link to start of a discussion about it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1648573#msg1648573 (the relevant posts are scattered and also extend to the following page)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 03, 2013, 10:03:30 PM
So I see my first 49000 DVC in my wallet.  It says "matures in 118 more blocks." 

So... my brand new Devcoins have to grow up.  That's pretty cool.  Anything I need to do to feed or water them ;) ?

Seriously, though, what is actually meant by "matures?"

... on the learning curve again :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 03, 2013, 11:34:27 PM
I thought this was already written just a few posts ago, mined coins require 120 blocks to mature, that is, to be really sure they are not going to turn out to be on an orphaned branch of the blockchain.

This is the same as bitcoin. some recent scamcoins have lowered that number but with their lower hasing power that seems a bad move on their part.

I think in the code its actually 100 blocks but in the user interface its 120, something like that.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 12:13:16 AM
"An orphaned branch of the block chain."  Another new concept for this newbie.  At this point, the meaning is... cryptic!  Yeah, I know no one saw that coming LOL.

Has anyone written an article or made a diagram of the life cycle of a cryptocoin?  If so, I'd like to see it :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 04, 2013, 01:07:02 AM
"An orphaned branch of the block chain."  Another new concept for this newbie.  At this point, the meaning is... cryptic!  Yeah, I know no one saw that coming LOL.

Has anyone written an article or made a diagram of the life cycle of a cryptocoin?  If so, I'd like to see it :)

The lifecycle is unclear.  It's all too new.  The only dead coins are the ones which didn't survive a 51% attack or scam coins.  Nobody can predict the lifecycle of some of these coins which appear to have made it so far.  We're still in the infancy stage but given this is all digital the growth will be logarithmic.

And just like clockwork, like I've been saying, bitcoin is about to go to walstreet which means mainstream for bitcoin, devcoin and all the rest of the coins. When the masses start investing in alt coins that's when it all starts going in fast forward.  Hyper growth and hyper hype from the media.  The way they mock alt coins now they'll be telling everyone to buy buy buy.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 01:32:01 AM
And just like clockwork, like I've been saying, bitcoin is about to go to walstreet which means mainstream for bitcoin, devcoin and all the rest of the coins. When the masses start investing in alt coins that's when it all starts going in fast forward.  Hyper growth and hyper hype from the media.  The way they mock alt coins now they'll be telling everyone to buy buy buy.

If you are right on that point, then that means that even getting into cryptos as late as I am, in the grand scheme of things I'm still very much an early adopter with a lot of upside ahead of me.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: jaywaka2713 on July 04, 2013, 03:07:29 AM
And just like clockwork, like I've been saying, bitcoin is about to go to walstreet which means mainstream for bitcoin, devcoin and all the rest of the coins. When the masses start investing in alt coins that's when it all starts going in fast forward.  Hyper growth and hyper hype from the media.  The way they mock alt coins now they'll be telling everyone to buy buy buy.

If you are right on that point, then that means that even getting into cryptos as late as I am, in the grand scheme of things I'm still very much an early adopter with a lot of upside ahead of me.

You are still an early adopter if you are getting into Bitcoin right now...

I bought 1 million devcoin when it was at 0.00000150 and its currently at 0.00000060. I refuse to sell because I know about the profits I still can make. I also accept devcoin through my business as I know of its potential.


Title: Re: Round 24 Receiver
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 03:20:43 AM
The round 24 receiver files have been uploaded to:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinpool.btc-music.com/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoinblockexplorer.info/receiver/receiver_24.csv
http://devtome.com/files/receiver_24.csv
http://devcoin.darkgamex.ch/receiver_24.csv

The account file is at:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/account_24.csv

There were 1277 original receiver lines, so the average number of devcoins per share is 180,000,000 dvc / 1277 = 140,955 dvc. At the current price of 0.885 btc/Mdvc, that is 0.125 btc/share. At the current price of 108 $/btc, that is 13 $/share. Administrator pay is 85.0 shares, 6.7 percent of the total.

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 24, starting at block 96,000. The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#generating_the_files

The next bounties will go into round 25:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

On Alexa:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/devtome.com#

the 3 month pageviews are 0.0000074% and the 1 month pageviews are 0.0000038%.

So I have a math question.  My address shows up 34 times in the receiver file, which corresponds to the number of shares I have.  Each share is supposed to get 140,955 DVC, but 45,000 are generated at each block.  So where would the remaining 95,955 DVC per share come from?  What am I missing?

Edit:  I think this message (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg1677109#msg1677109) answers my question, especially this part:

The number of receiver lines will only be known at block 85,000, when the writer earnings are generated and the receiver file is made. Assuming there are 60 receiver lines this round, each line will get a payment every 60 blocks, and on average each line will receive a total of 180,000,000 devcoins / 60 = 3,000,000 devcoins. For example, if someone made four generation shares from the signing bonus, and two for articles, for a total of six shares, they would get six payments every 60 rounds, or an average of a payment every 10 rounds. Their total payment would be on average 6 * 3,000,000 devcoins = 18,000,000 devcoins. Calculated at one payment every ten rounds, that gives the same figure of 4,000 / 10 * 45,000 devcoins = 18,000,000 devcoins.

So... working through it for the current round and the number of shares I have, the paragraph would read something like this:

The number of receiver lines will only be known at block 93,000, when the writer earnings are generated and the receiver file is made. Assuming there are 1277 receiver lines this round, each line will get a payment every 1277 blocks, and on average each line will receive a total of 180,000,000 devcoins / 1277 = 140,995 devcoins. For example, if someone made ... a total of 34 shares, they would get 34 payments every 1277 rounds, or an average of a payment every 37.5588235... rounds. Their total payment would be on average 34 * 140,995 devcoins = 4,793,830 devcoins. Calculated at one payment every 37.5588235... rounds, that gives the same figure of 4,000 / 37.5588235... * 45,000 devcoins = 4,792,482 devcoins.

I'm assuming the discrepancy between the results of the total number of devcoins when the payout generations are all done is due to rounding error--on my calculator the string of numbers after the decimal point went on for quite a while!  Basically, the part I was missing was that the receiver lines repeat themselves for the duration of the 4,000 blocks in which payouts for round 24 are made.

So... once one begins writing for the Devtome, as long as one keeps up the pace month in and month out, it seems to me that payouts happen pretty much continuously.  Is that right?

This is looking better and better.  Who knew story problems could be so much fun?


Now that my client will be generating Devcoins from now on into the foreseeable future, do I need to leave my computer on to pick up my generated DVCs?  Or is it OK to shut it down for the night and pick up everything that got generated overnight in the morning when I turn it back on?  Just to be safe, I'll keep it turned on for now... until I get a reply.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 03:24:16 AM
I also accept devcoin through my business as I know of its potential.

What is your business?

Edit:  On a broader note, is there a directory out there of businesses that accept payment in Devcoin?  If not, can we start one on the Devtome?  It could be set up very similarly to the front page, where one can add a new business to a "latest" section and then admins can categorize them by business type and location.  I'd be happy to help out with the categorizing part.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 04, 2013, 04:40:56 AM
And just like clockwork, like I've been saying, bitcoin is about to go to walstreet which means mainstream for bitcoin, devcoin and all the rest of the coins. When the masses start investing in alt coins that's when it all starts going in fast forward.  Hyper growth and hyper hype from the media.  The way they mock alt coins now they'll be telling everyone to buy buy buy.

If you are right on that point, then that means that even getting into cryptos as late as I am, in the grand scheme of things I'm still very much an early adopter with a lot of upside ahead of me.

We're still very early.  Very very early.  Just don't sell at the first spike.  Wait for everyone to start buying.  When you hear your neighbors talking about how they're buying crypto cons then that's the time to start selling.

This is how I know its very early. Max 1% of people in the western world are actively involved in crypto coins. 

Also, crypto coins are perceived as a joke by main stream media and wallstreet.  And finally, you need special computer skills to invest.  At least to be computer literate.  That's keeping out the masses.  Something a bitcoin ETF would fix.

Everyone I've told about and sold them on he idea of alt coins when they saw they had to buy hardware or learn about all these different clients to download and how to set up and tweak mining software - after a week they all but one gave up.

So no worries, a year ago would have been ideal to get into this thing but we are definitely very early to the game. Just have enough coins (in various names) so when it spikes you can sell some and still have lots to wait out the real wave.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 04:55:03 AM
Everyone I've told about and sold them on he idea of alt coins when they saw they had to buy hardware or learn about all these different clients to download and how to set up and tweak mining software - after a week they all but one gave up.

So no worries, a year ago would have been ideal to get into this thing but we are definitely very early to the game. Just have enough coins (in various names) so when it spikes you can sell some and still have lots to wait out the real wave.

I have to admit that all the stuff about clients (with their private keys and need for backing up) and hardware and mining technology and difficulty along with all the programming behind it is something I find a bit daunting.  For example, I'm wondering if it's even safe for me to turn off my laptop now that my DVC client is getting generated DVC!  Let's just say that I'm a big fan of Coinbase (https://coinbase.com/?r=51891fb20f10dc905f00003c).  It takes some of that off my back and I get a nice BTC wallet.

Sounds like you have a good strategy.  I'm more or less on the same page except that I would like to grow the number of cryptos I have (in the various names I choose to have them) by also investing them rather than just sitting on them.  But of course there is risk involved either way so you have to choose the risk you feel you can live with.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 04, 2013, 05:01:12 AM
Wiser, how are you gonna invest the crypto coins exactly?  I'm sitting on them cause that's all you can do.

I'm investing in ASIC mining gear which should hopefully allow me to accumulate coins faster than buying them.

You can shut off your laptop while it's generating shares.  I only turn mine on and lower the firewall once per week to see my coins accumulating.  It's safe, your coins just float around looking for your address and once you connect to the node in about 3 minutes all your coins for all those past days will pop up all matured and everything.  


Title: Re: where to invest/spend Devcoin
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 12:40:00 PM
Quote
Wiser, how are you gonna invest the crypto coins exactly?  I'm sitting on them cause that's all you can do.

You can support the Devcoin Bounties, which earn dividends weekly, and puts your Devcoins to work supporting innovation. You can't help but feel good having your dvc sitting here.
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/14
Ask price:  199 dvc, average weekly dividend 0.032 dvc per share.

You can invest in ASIC Miner Pass Through shares which earn dividends weekly. Be a part of ASIC mining as each share represents 1/1000th of an ASICMiner share, paid in Devcoins.
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39
Ask price: 9,900 dvc, dividends paid weekly ranging from 20.2 dvc to 34.38 (last four weeks) per share.

You can invest in the P2P DVC mining bond which earn dividends weekly. P2PDVC has several interests including shares of RTM in Bitfunder.
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/40
Ask Price: 100.5 dvc, dividends paid weekly averaging 0.01 dvc but two weeks ago was 0.1 dvc. per share.

These are all easily liquidated if you need your devcoins for something else, and you earn more Devcoins per week. Not bad.

Devcoins go through cycles and holding them in investments until a better price comes along is a good way to be involved in multiple projects.

Bitcoin PR Buzz accepts Devcoins
http://bitcoinprbuzz.com/

+1!

Thanks for putting that all in one place.

There is also the option to trade some (definitely not all!) DVC for BTC and buy ASICMINER shares and 1/100 shares over on BTCT.co

There are other securities to at least check out on the various exchanges in various cryptos, but as far as I can tell ASICMINER is the most solid.  Always practice due diligence, etc.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 12:46:54 PM
You can shut off your laptop while it's generating shares.  I only turn mine on and lower the firewall once per week to see my coins accumulating.  It's safe, your coins just float around looking for your address and once you connect to the node in about 3 minutes all your coins for all those past days will pop up all matured and everything.  

Thanks!  Good to know.  I will definitely turn on my laptop more than once a week, though, as I use it for many things besides watching my Devs accumulate--writing Devtome content,  for example  :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Wolf Rainer on July 04, 2013, 12:59:58 PM
DVC is dying day by day  :-\ thats sad, i had much hope in this coin. Why is dying?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Boelens on July 04, 2013, 02:03:47 PM
DVC is dying day by day  :-\ thats sad, i had much hope in this coin. Why is dying?

Pretty sure it isn't really dying.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 03:17:48 PM
The client I'm currently using for DVC is the 0.3.24-beta version.  I'm thinking I'd like to change to the client found here (https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i) but haven't downloaded it yet.  If I download the next client and try it out, will the old one still run just fine?  Can I have two DVC clients running on the same computer?

The reason I want to possibly switch down the road is that this beta version doesn't seem to have any way for me to back it up or access the private key or anything that would really help in the event my hard drive crashes.  So I want to play around with the next one on the same computer and see if it's a better client.  Will it be OK to do that?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 04, 2013, 03:33:27 PM
The client I'm currently using for DVC is the 0.3.24-beta version.  I'm thinking I'd like to change to the client found here (https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i) but haven't downloaded it yet.  If I download the next client and try it out, will the old one still run just fine?  Can I have two DVC clients running on the same computer?

The reason I want to possibly switch down the road is that this beta version doesn't seem to have any way for me to back it up or access the private key or anything that would really help in the event my hard drive crashes.  So I want to play around with the next one on the same computer and see if it's a better client.  Will it be OK to do that?

It's fine as long as you don't run them at the same time (well, some say not to run at the same time, others say it's fine... but I'd be safe).

You don't need to export your key though. Go to c:/users/[username]/appdata/roaming/devcoin/wallet.dat and just back up that file.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alex0909 on July 04, 2013, 05:01:38 PM
A new client for Mac would be great, kind of hard to manage it right now (bugs with copy /paste) due to the fact that it launches in the terminal (command line mac app).

Btw second question, when does round 25 ends? since their was delay should we expect delay in the end of the round?

Thanks



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 04, 2013, 05:07:13 PM
It's fine as long as you don't run them at the same time (well, some say not to run at the same time, others say it's fine... but I'd be safe).

You don't need to export your key though. Go to c:/users/[username]/appdata/roaming/devcoin/wallet.dat and just back up that file.

Thank you!

File is now backed up.  I feel better already :)

And I will take your advice and have the old client closed before messing with the new one.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 04, 2013, 06:37:17 PM
...second question, when does round 25 ends? since their was delay should we expect delay in the end of the round? Thanks
block 97k as far as I know - the earlier delay was to accommodate online wallet issues in round 23 and to even out that one with 24, rather than keep rolling over the extra blocks I think (but could be wrong)


Title: Re: Round ends/ payment starts
Post by: weisoq on July 04, 2013, 11:02:02 PM
Quote
Btw second question, when does round 25 ends? since their was delay should we expect delay in the end of the round?

The Rounds end times and Payment start times (by block number) are at http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats This page has numbers up to and including Round 30.
Are you sure about the +300's? 89,150 was used for round 23 (to ensure verybody had a valid dvc address) and then 93,300 for 24 to even them out, but assumed it was back to an 97,000 after that and onwards because the forward adjustment was then known beforehand.

Doesn't really matter, but I'm asked about this a lot and would be good to clarify as I've been saying 97k + 4,000,... and nobody here seemed to think or claim otherwise. Cheers


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 05, 2013, 01:01:58 AM
Quote
Btw second question, when does round 25 ends? since their was delay should we expect delay in the end of the round?

The Rounds end times and Payment start times (by block number) are at http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats This page has numbers up to and including Round 30.
Are you sure about the +300's? 89,150 was used for round 23 (to ensure verybody had a valid dvc address) and then 93,300 for 24 to even them out, but assumed it was back to an 97,000 after that and onwards because the forward adjustment was then known beforehand.

Doesn't really matter, but I'm asked about this a lot and would be good to clarify as I've been saying 97k + 4,000,... and nobody here seemed to think or claim otherwise. Cheers

Unthinkingbit confirmed for me that it is every 4k blocks starting with what we are used to for R24 (when I started), so payout is every 4k blocks from 96k (100, 104, 108, 112...) and the stopping point is every 4k blocks as well (93.3k, 97.3, 101.3, 105.3...).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 05, 2013, 01:06:47 AM
The client I'm currently using for DVC is the 0.3.24-beta version.  I'm thinking I'd like to change to the client found here (https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i) but haven't downloaded it yet.  If I download the next client and try it out, will the old one still run just fine?  Can I have two DVC clients running on the same computer?


It should.  This will probably change in a future build, but for now they are interoperable as long as you do not encrypt the wallet file.

I am curious.  It seems you joined the forum a month and a half after the new version came out.  Yet you still choose to download the older version.  I have gotten a few support pms and every single time it has turned out they downloaded the old version, and an update fixes their issues.  Why did you choose the old version still?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 05, 2013, 01:19:39 AM
The client I'm currently using for DVC is the 0.3.24-beta version.  I'm thinking I'd like to change to the client found here (https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i) but haven't downloaded it yet.  If I download the next client and try it out, will the old one still run just fine?  Can I have two DVC clients running on the same computer?


It should.  This will probably change in a future build, but for now they are interoperable as long as you do not encrypt the wallet file.

I am curious.  It seems you joined the forum a month and a half after the new version came out.  Yet you still choose to download the older version.  I have gotten a few support pms and every single time it has turned out they downloaded the old version, and an update fixes their issues.  Why did you choose the old version still?


The client on the official site, or thread or whatever was the wrong version. I joined up long after the new version was released as well but up until a couple weeks ago I had no idea there even was a new version -- I was still using the one with the Bitcoin logo as that is the one that was listed.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 05, 2013, 01:28:21 AM
A new client for Mac would be great, kind of hard to manage it right now (bugs with copy /paste) due to the fact that it launches in the terminal (command line mac app).

All right, try it again with a download from https://www.box.com/s/ntna8dibxek351s42fxu

As this now no longer includes the daemon version, those that want the osx version of that can get it from: https://www.box.com/s/5f21cf8812nhsonpj8jm


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 05, 2013, 04:25:05 AM
Anybody seen finshaggy?  He's dissapeared.

Ever since those 3 trolls attacked him like 3 weeks ago he's vanished.  He used to post regularly and now all of a sudden:  nothing.  I hope he's ok.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 05, 2013, 04:51:43 AM
Anybody seen finshaggy?  He's dissapeared.

Ever since those 3 trolls attacked him like 3 weeks ago he's vanished.  He used to post regularly and now all of a sudden:  nothing.  I hope he's ok.

He posted yesterday ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249545.msg2650027#msg2650027 ).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 05, 2013, 05:01:19 AM
Anybody seen finshaggy?  He's dissapeared.

Ever since those 3 trolls attacked him like 3 weeks ago he's vanished.  He used to post regularly and now all of a sudden:  nothing.  I hope he's ok.

Honestly, he damages this project more than he helps it. I found out soon after I joined that he was either trying to destroy it or he has no idea what he's doing and is accidentally causing damage. But then again, based on his entire "Bitcoin city" thing, he's doing the same thing to his own project. Kind of sad, really. I was surprised to see that somehow he became an Admin here...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 05, 2013, 05:17:24 AM
The client I'm currently using for DVC is the 0.3.24-beta version.  I'm thinking I'd like to change to the client found here (https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i) but haven't downloaded it yet.  If I download the next client and try it out, will the old one still run just fine?  Can I have two DVC clients running on the same computer?


It should.  This will probably change in a future build, but for now they are interoperable as long as you do not encrypt the wallet file.

I am curious.  It seems you joined the forum a month and a half after the new version came out.  Yet you still choose to download the older version.  I have gotten a few support pms and every single time it has turned out they downloaded the old version, and an update fixes their issues.  Why did you choose the old version still?


The client on the official site, or thread or whatever was the wrong version. I joined up long after the new version was released as well but up until a couple weeks ago I had no idea there even was a new version -- I was still using the one with the Bitcoin logo as that is the one that was listed.

Yeah, what he said ^^^  What I remember is that there was a choice of three places to download a client from and I didn't see any indication of one being better than another, so I just made a choice and that's what I got.  It works OK for now, but I bet the newer one is better.

A question on backing up the dat file.  Do I make backups regularly, like once a week?  Or, is the dat file going to be the same as time goes on because after all the client is really a reader of information stored somewhere else (blockchain)?

If/when I get around to downloading the new client, can I use the same dat file so that I can keep my original addresses?  If so, how would I do that?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 05, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
The client I'm currently using for DVC is the 0.3.24-beta version.  I'm thinking I'd like to change to the client found here (https://www.box.com/s/crfmuuhe0f32w5g4nt4i) but haven't downloaded it yet.  If I download the next client and try it out, will the old one still run just fine?  Can I have two DVC clients running on the same computer?


It should.  This will probably change in a future build, but for now they are interoperable as long as you do not encrypt the wallet file.

I am curious.  It seems you joined the forum a month and a half after the new version came out.  Yet you still choose to download the older version.  I have gotten a few support pms and every single time it has turned out they downloaded the old version, and an update fixes their issues.  Why did you choose the old version still?


The client on the official site, or thread or whatever was the wrong version. I joined up long after the new version was released as well but up until a couple weeks ago I had no idea there even was a new version -- I was still using the one with the Bitcoin logo as that is the one that was listed.

Yeah, what he said ^^^  What I remember is that there was a choice of three places to download a client from and I didn't see any indication of one being better than another, so I just made a choice and that's what I got.  It works OK for now, but I bet the newer one is better.

A question on backing up the dat file.  Do I make backups regularly, like once a week?  Or, is the dat file going to be the same as time goes on because after all the client is really a reader of information stored somewhere else (blockchain)?

If/when I get around to downloading the new client, can I use the same dat file so that I can keep my original addresses?  If so, how would I do that?

New client pulls the wallet file from the same location. Ex. when I did the "upgrade" I simply downloaded the new client. Since it's still a Devcoin client it is still looking for the wallet in /roaming/devcoin/

And you have to back up the wallet every 100 addresses, whether that's because you created them or because you sent funds (as that creates an address as well). I personally just use an automatic backup program to keep up with the file and when it changes, it automatically backs it up. Lot easier than having to remember to deal with it, especially when you run 8-9 different wallets, lol.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 05, 2013, 03:31:45 PM
Unthinkingbit confirmed for me that it is every 4k blocks starting with what we are used to for R24 (when I started), so payout is every 4k blocks from 96k (100, 104, 108, 112...) and the stopping point is every 4k blocks as well (93.3k, 97.3, 101.3, 105.3...).
Ok cheers


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Sitting Pretty on July 05, 2013, 05:48:19 PM
So who is creating the wall on vircurex DVC/BTC lately?   Now 14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi.   Is it a supporter, or someone trying to play?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 05, 2013, 06:14:27 PM
So who is creating the wall on vircurex DVC/BTC lately?   Now 14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi.   Is it a supporter, or someone trying to play?

Another opportunity to educate:  What does "creating a wall" mean?  And what do you mean by "14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi"?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 05, 2013, 07:12:06 PM
So who is creating the wall on vircurex DVC/BTC lately?   Now 14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi.   Is it a supporter, or someone trying to play?

Another opportunity to educate:  What does "creating a wall" mean?  And what do you mean by "14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi"?

The wall is what it's called simply because it's tough to get across. For that order to be taken down, someone has to buy the entire thing.

14+ BTC at 74 satoshi means that someone is offering up 14+ Bitcoins (14.00000000+) for DVC at a rate of 0.00000074 BTC per DVC.

For someone to buy at 73 sat would require people to sell almost 20 million DVC to the guy that is buying at 74 first, which is why it is a "wall."

I'm going to assume whoever is buying it is speculating that the price is going to go back up and they are going to profit off it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 05, 2013, 07:47:03 PM
Thanks Ranlo and Stan Distortion!  That makes perfect sense  :)

Edit:  This brings up another question.

14+ BTC at 74 satoshi means that someone is offering up 14+ Bitcoins (14.00000000+) for DVC at a rate of 0.00000074 BTC per DVC.

For someone to buy at 73 sat would require people to sell almost 20 million DVC to the guy that is buying at 74 first, which is why it is a "wall."

Would that also mean that anyone else who wants to buy DVC at 74 sat would have to wait until that entire order is filled before theirs gets filled?

So... if I really wanted to buy more DVC right now and I didn't want to wait, I'd have to put in an order to buy them at at least 75 sat?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 06, 2013, 03:41:21 AM
If this works I think this will be the first mainstream media article in favor of alt coins and in specific devcoin.  That would be great for marketing.  I wish I would be able to quantify that so I can get paid marketing shares.  lol, hey, if it's worth marketing shares then why wouldn't I want them?

Good luck with the article  :)

How exactly are marketing shares allocated?  I'm thinking I may want to get in on that... eventually.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: gweedo on July 06, 2013, 04:53:02 AM
good evening sir, Bitcoin was not created to function as an investment vehicle. Our group has succeeded in keeping the bitcoin blockchain alive for this long and we are not giving up anytime soon...Ira

So you spoke to Satoshi and you know his true function of bitcoin. Bitcoin is at it's core a way to transfer wealth between any two people that have a wallet. To say it isn't an investment vechicle isn't for you to decide. Maybe for you bitcoin isn't an investment vechicle for others it maybe.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: gweedo on July 06, 2013, 05:13:03 AM
good evening sir, Bitcoin was not created to function as an investment vehicle. Our group has succeeded in keeping the bitcoin blockchain alive for this long and we are not giving up anytime soon...Ira

So you spoke to Satoshi and you know his true function of bitcoin. Bitcoin is at it's core a way to transfer wealth between any two people that have a wallet. To say it isn't an investment vechicle isn't for you to decide. Maybe for you bitcoin isn't an investment vechicle for others it maybe.



good evening, We have focused on sustainability and security. Given the size of the bitcoin project substantial resources have been devoted by a vast network of colleges and universities throughout the world. Take some time to look at some of my projects and let me know what you think..Ira

Your site has no bitcoin projects http://www.duraspace.org/search/node/bitcoin. Also I went to one of the top universities in North America, and I have not heard about your site or program.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 06, 2013, 07:12:25 AM
I'd guess that close to the highest bid its someone showing some support.

So who is creating the wall on vircurex DVC/BTC lately?   Now 14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi.   Is it a supporter, or someone trying to play?

Another opportunity to educate:  What does "creating a wall" mean?  And what do you mean by "14+ BTC sitting at 74 satoshi"?

Here's the line on vircurex:
19,999,555.2856    0.00000074    14.7997

They want to buy 20 million DVC at 0.00000074 BTC each. He's calling it a "wall" because its huge compared to all the other orders, on a chart it would make a tall vertical line. Wall implies other things too, the speculation subforum has plenty of examples, but imho there's nothing like that going on with that bid, it just looks like a substantial offer at the market rate.

This person seems like they already bought 11 or so btc and flashed 20 btc but removed it so they prob spending about 35 to 50 btc at this price. Seems like a noob because he doesnt know how dvc works. Any wall in the bid book will get eaten up slowly but to create a pump is what will drive others to buy. The wall will give incentive to selloff a big chunk to someone whonjust got the coins. A pump would have them add or hold thinking its rising. That person is either greedy or doesnt know how to manage hos position. I did the opposite i created a pump earlier and price rose for 35% subsequently. Noone has made a substantial pump after mine. Ive only seen the occasional attempts
at a few btc in the buy book that gets eaten up slowly as price jist sits there waiting for sellers.

If ur smart u would buy half above market and then place half in the book in increments.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alex0909 on July 06, 2013, 07:35:55 AM
A new client for Mac would be great, kind of hard to manage it right now (bugs with copy /paste) due to the fact that it launches in the terminal (command line mac app).

All right, try it again with a download from https://www.box.com/s/ntna8dibxek351s42fxu

As this now no longer includes the daemon version, those that want the osx version of that can get it from: https://www.box.com/s/5f21cf8812nhsonpj8jm

works great ! thanks ! should be updated on the website!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 06, 2013, 09:15:20 AM
good evening sir, Bitcoin was not created to function as an investment vehicle. Our group has succeeded in keeping the bitcoin blockchain alive for this long and we are not giving up anytime soon...Ira

So you spoke to Satoshi and you know his true function of bitcoin. Bitcoin is at it's core a way to transfer wealth between any two people that have a wallet. To say it isn't an investment vechicle isn't for you to decide. Maybe for you bitcoin isn't an investment vechicle for others it maybe.



good evening, We have focused on sustainability and security. Given the size of the bitcoin project substantial resources have been devoted by a vast network of colleges and universities throughout the world. Take some time to look at some of my projects and let me know what you think..Ira

Mr. Ira, no disrespect but no one on the planet knows the true intent for Bitcoin and it is my opinion that Bitcoin will easily get that ETF license in which case you will be wrong and bitcoin will be a major investment vehicle.

But don't worry, all the "pros" on TV and on wallstreet say Bitcoin doesn't have a chance so what are the odds I'm correct?  

Well, given I've been saying this is coming for the last 3 months I'd say my odds are 100%, but if you choose to listen to the "pros" then my odds are near zero.  So take your pick no sit back and watch.  The difference between me and the other guys is that I look at the big picture while they can't analyze a simple cloud without their minds trapped inside a book.  

And that is the sad part about higher education - it tends to blind those who get it.

Either way, good luck to you, sir.

Shalom,

Vlad


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 06, 2013, 09:18:14 AM
I just submitted an article regarding Bitcoin to seeking alpha...
Good luck, although seeking alpha publishes hundreds of articles a day so may have been worth getting some others to read it through for an opinion if you want it to stand out amongst the rest (there's a lot of rubbish written there).

That would have been a good idea.  Wish I wouldn't had thought of it.  I did try my best to weave in some high speculative stocks into the story so hopefully that means they'll send it out to all of those stocks and their investors.  That's the best way to get massive distribution. 

Seeking alpha publishes on sites like Yahoo Finance and a number of others.  Your piece simply has to put enough work for those stocks to be pushed to those sites for those particular stocks. I tried my best but it wasn't easy as my focus was bitcoin, ETFs and Devcoin along with alt coins.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 06, 2013, 09:33:38 AM

I think you misunderstand what the etf is about, at least for now. What it means is that a substantial holder of bitcoin either (a) wants to sell out and is setting up a probably more tax efficient way of doing so, otherwise why else set up a taxable, regulated etf when bitcoins are untaxable and unregulated? or (b) wants to create a means by which they can generate fees and trade against (short) their own position, per similar sub-prime shenanigans, where money can be made or at least gains locked in on the way down as well as the way up.

If anyone wants to buy the etf that's up to them, but it makes no sense to do so at whatever the issue price will be when you know the vehicle is being set up by one of the (apparently) largest bitcoin holders who is selling shares backed by bitcoin to facilitate it. Just my opinion obviously but anyone wanting to buy the etf would do better to wait until any offering is complete Ė probably a very long wait, if at all - and the dust has settled. i.e. who do you think the trust is going to be buying bitcoins from to back the etf? Either it buys on the open market, which amounts to a lot of bitcoins, pushing up the price and the winklevoss holding to a great exit price for them; or they effectively buy their own bitcoins, which amounts to a lot of bitcoins, maintaining a nice price for the winklevoss holding and a great exit price for them. These things are always about optimising profits in an exit plan.

I know how ETF's work and there's one more reason to create an ETF, to drive demand for your product, in this case bitcoin, to bring bitcoin to wallstreet out of the dark alley it's now in.  Did you know one of the largest if not the largest holders of physical gold is the gold ETF?  it's part of the mechanics of any popular fund and it doesnt mean anyone wants to dump, it could mean they want the price to go higher and this ETF will do massive accumulation with other people's money.  good way to make $1 billion from $10 million they currently hold.

This ETF is a derivative of bitcoin, of course I'm gonna buy it, I'm gonna actually buy options on this derivative cause I know once the funds get in on it it's gonna explode.

The winklevoss twins are using their coins as collateral to start the ETF fund.  Once buyers start coming in the rule is that for every 5 shares bought they will go out and buy 1 additional bitcoin.  With less than 12 million bitcoins in existence this will create a massive surge in demand and will basically corner the bitcoin market.  

I have no doubt the govt will approve it and I give it 2-3 months before it starts to really take off.   I say 2-3 months as there's probably going to be accumulation games going on at the beginning.

In fact bitcoin is now being gamed already.  The day this ETF was announced the price of bitcoin dropped every single day.  It's not a coincidence - this is the smart money knowing its gonna be listed so this is like buying in a pre-IPO. I fully expect bitcoin to be taken down to $50 in a matter of weeks for massive accumulation into the news of a successful ETF launch.

I really can't wait to see if all these wallstreet geniuses laughing at the idea will actually be dead wrong.  They truly think there's no way the govt will give bitcoin the license.  I simply don't see how they can't or won't.

If they're right then I'm wrong about everything else.  But if I'm right given the odds are so great against me on this topic then I'm gonna presume the same logic that told me something the masses were wrong about will also prove to be right about everything else related to alt coins.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: K1773R on July 06, 2013, 01:24:36 PM
@Vlad2Vlad

i watched ur posts now for some time, after you have been "banned" from the dvc thread from spamming you now start posting ur useless and long posts over the hole btctalk forum, can you stop it? it annoys tons of ppls!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alex0909 on July 06, 2013, 03:42:32 PM
Well, each time i encrypt my devcoin wallet i am unable to open the client on my mac...
Already deleted all files and backed up my wallet from my cold storage, it just not working sigh*

I dont know where the problem comes from, it launches but at a point it stops working, like if it cannot open the wallet

Imagine users get that problem and dont have a backup for their wallet file... Happily i do.

I get this error : EXCEPTION: NSt8ios_base7failureE       
CDataStream::read() : end of data       
bitcoin in AppInit()       


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: acs26 on July 06, 2013, 10:11:40 PM
@Vlad2Vlad

i watched ur posts now for some time, after you have been "banned" from the dvc thread from spamming you now start posting ur useless and long posts over the hole btctalk forum, can you stop it? it annoys tons of ppls!
He was never banned..

@Vlad2Vlad

i watched ur posts now for some time, after you have been "banned" from the dvc thread from spamming you now start posting ur useless and long posts over the hole btctalk forum, can you stop it? it annoys tons of ppls!

I was banned?  What planet are you on?  I was never banned from any thread or blog.

And now you're telling me what threads I can post on.  Stop trolling me, and please Go screw yourself, douchebag.

I think you're confused on what trolling is. However, was that really a way to address him?

Stelmoi = Hater on the prowl, newbie troll alert.

This is reminiscent of the troll attack from 2 weeks ago.

Troll 2.0?  Who's got the vanquish button?

Seriously guys? Bringing up the 'troll attack' again? I thought we straightened it out..

I just submitted an article regarding Bitcoin to seeking alpha.

I do hope your article writing is leaps and bounds better then what you post here in this forum.  

Your postings here show you to be a rambling and boring writer, with very limited technical knowledge, who uses their own emotions as a guide instead logic.



Lol.  In any event, I can't write while sleeping and still manage something more useful and coherent than the drivel you ejected all over your so called post.

You are a fool, and a detriment to the devcoin community.

I don't anybody is currently a 'detriment' to the community. Though, as long as you guys flame each other you both are.
----

I find it amazing how long it takes a flame war to brew. I was just looking at posts yesterday, and today all of this is on the thread.

Will probably be deleting the posts later on. But I'm not sure yet.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 06, 2013, 10:14:57 PM
Acs26, I'll delete my own right now.  I already deleted a couple today that were off topic-ish. I just don't like being attacked by some dude I don't even recognize and to be told I can't post anywhere on this entire forum.

Edit:  all cleaned up.  


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 07, 2013, 05:06:45 AM
buy wall being eaten needs reenforcement.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 07, 2013, 05:48:59 AM
buy wall being eaten needs reenforcement.

Volatility is the name of the game for another year or two.  If Bitcoin gets its own ETF then that will bring in many millions in various exchanges And also new investors. Eventually you get liquidity and less volatile swings. Until then just buy at these ridiculous lows cause if Bitocoin hits $1,000 next year then its very possible for Devcoin to see $1. 

There's a 1,000 to 1 ratio afterall so its very possible and if Bitcoin gets an ETF then I think $1,000 per bitcoin is almost a guarantee.


Title: Re: Devcoin Logo Vote
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 07, 2013, 08:49:55 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0
..
The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.

Congratulations to Marticps!

First Prize: Marticps, 8 shares
Second Prize: Grc, 4 shares
Third Prize: Skull 88, 2 shares
Fourth Prize: Icoin, 1 share

The logo vote post is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.msg2672418#msg2672418

All the devcoin voters will get 2/5 of a share for voting. Every other voter, with an activity of at least 50, will get half that if they post a devcoin address (which can be from a web wallet) in their vote post or signature. The csv vote file is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.csv

the Open Document Spreadsheet file, with the calculations, is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.ods


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 07, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0
..
The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.

Congratulations to Marticps!

First Prize: Marticps, 8 shares
Second Prize: Grc, 4 shares
Third Prize: Skull 88, 2 shares
Fourth Prize: Icoin, 1 share

The logo vote post is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.msg2672418#msg2672418

All the devcoin voters will get 2/5 of a share for voting. Every other voter, with an activity of at least 50, will get half that if they post a devcoin address (which can be from a web wallet) in their vote post or signature. The csv vote file is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.csv

the Open Document Spreadsheet file, with the calculations, is at:
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0
..
The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.

Congratulations to Marticps!

First Prize: Marticps, 8 shares
Second Prize: Grc, 4 shares
Third Prize: Skull 88, 2 shares
Fourth Prize: Icoin, 1 share

The logo vote post is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.msg2672418#msg2672418

All the devcoin voters will get 2/5 of a share for voting. Every other voter, with an activity of at least 50, will get half that if they post a devcoin address (which can be from a web wallet) in their vote post or signature. The csv vote file is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.csv

the Open Document Spreadsheet file, with the calculations, is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.ods



Just to be sure, we were supposed to edit our vote post and post the address there, correct? If so, done!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.msg2633112#msg2633112

Also, can you please check for the last PM I sent you? Thanks!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 07, 2013, 09:15:10 AM
Lawyer,

You're talking about devcoin reaching $1 as if there's some fundamental analysis prerequisite behind all this.  Bitcoin has been very stable around $100, except for this current dip.

Can you do the same analysis for a worthless asset, like Bitcoin, with ZERO future cashflows, currently being valued at over $1 billion?  Can you do a present value (NPV) of Bitcoin's [ZERO] future cashflows and you can even use a high risk 25% discount rate.

Lol, you can use a 1,000% discount rate cause the answer will be the same, a net present value of ZERO, cause bitcoin has no cashflows even in the works.  This is literally like walking on water, yet educated people everywhere keep plugging in numbers as if they matter.  It's strange.

Just the same, if Bitcoin gets to $1,000, that means there's going to be an alt coin frenzy and by the same mechanics or exhuberance, devcoin can reach $1 which I'm aware of will be roughly $7-$9 billion market cap by next year.  And on the contrary, at least Devcoin has some sort of business plan and potential future cashflows, that's something Bitcoin hasn't even dreamt up yet.

It's all Utterly meaningless.  This is the same logic the media uses and wallstreet to say bitcoin will never get the ETF license.  I have 2 degrees and I think just like you and I see the fundamental flaws just like you but once in a while you have to look up at what's really going on in the world.  All of this has nothing to do with math or fundamental logic, but politics, power, society and the future.  

Good luck.


Title: Re: Devcoin Logo Vote
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 07, 2013, 09:27:40 AM
Everyone who has received devcoins in this round or the previous, please vote for your favorite logos in the vote thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.0
..
The votes will be tabulated on Satuday, July 6. The winner will get 8 shares, second place will get 4 shares, third place 2 shares, and 1 for fourth.

Congratulations to Marticps!

First Prize: Marticps, 8 shares
Second Prize: Grc, 4 shares
Third Prize: Skull 88, 2 shares
Fourth Prize: Icoin, 1 share

The logo vote post is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248199.msg2672418#msg2672418

All the devcoin voters will get 2/5 of a share for voting. Every other voter, with an activity of at least 50, will get half that if they post a devcoin address (which can be from a web wallet) in their vote post or signature. The csv vote file is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.csv

the Open Document Spreadsheet file, with the calculations, is at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/logo_vote.ods


Congrats Marticps, that was my top pick.

I'm really surprised at how few people actually voted.  I thought we had hundreds of active members.  This design is one of the most important aspects of Devcoin yet hardly anybody voted.  Really not a good sign - most people must think this is just another thing for them to be involved in when it's clearly so much more than that.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 07, 2013, 09:53:40 AM
Lawyer,

I'll give you some proof.  You say devcoin has to go from a market cap of $244,000 to $7 Billion.  That's a 291 fold or roughly 29,100% return.  The best I've ever seen was DELL's 54,000% from 1991 to 2000.

Did you research these other alt coins yet?  I did.  In a matter of 2-4 months Litecoin went from roughly 2 pennies to $3 and stabilized.  That equals 150 fold, that would put us at about $5 Bilion market cap.

Namecoin went from $.001 to $1 and stabilized just below $1.  That's an increase of 1,000 fold or 100,000% which would put Devcoin closer to like $25 billion market cap.

Can you find any cashflows, present or in the future for these other coins?  ZERO.  None even planned.  That's actually shocking to me, especially for Bitcoin.

So like I said, given we currently have roughly a 1% participation rate in alt-coin investments, if or rather when Bitcoin gets an ETF and as a result takes alt coins mainstream, even a 10% participation rate will cause a frenzy in the alt-coin market and devcoin can fairly easily reach $1.  

This is as clear as day to me.  Don't bother with the numbers, these things have already been pre-planned by the powers that be.  Unless of course, you believe people can fly all of a sudden and break all the other laws of physics.  It's just not possible.  

There can only be one plausible explanation for all of this:  massive collusion and manipulation - in the highest degree and on every level.  And that ETF license should just about prove it cause the pros on wallstreet are right - there's no way the US govt can give that license to Bitcoin.  

But watch, they will, and without any issues or reservations.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 07, 2013, 02:04:58 PM
Quote
Fourth Prize: Icoin, 1 share

Thanks to everyone who voted!


Title: Post Address Only If You Haven't Received Devcoins
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 07, 2013, 06:19:09 PM
..
Just to be sure, we were supposed to edit our vote post and post the address there, correct? If so, done!

There is no need for anyone who has received devcoins to post an address, because I already have the address. All the devcoin voters and logo winners have been added to the bounty file:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

Posting an address is only necessary for those who have not received generation devcoins yet:
00400
Bitcoin Megastore
Dcl595
Praxis


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 07, 2013, 06:31:36 PM
..
Just to be sure, we were supposed to edit our vote post and post the address there, correct? If so, done!

There is no need for anyone who has received devcoins to post an address, because I already have the address. All the devcoin voters and logo winners have been added to the bounty file:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_25.csv

Posting an address is only necessary for those who have not received generation devcoins yet:
00400
Bitcoin Megastore
Dcl595
Praxis


Ahh, got you. Thanks!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 08, 2013, 12:19:18 AM
This person seems like they already bought 11 or so btc and flashed 20 btc but remove it so they prob spending about 35 to 50 btc at this price. Seems like a noob because he doesnt know how dvc works. Any wall in the bid book will get eaten up slowly but to create a pump is what will drive others to buy. The wall will give incentive to selloff a big chunk to someone whonjust got the coins. A pump would have them add or hold thinking its rising. That person is either greedy or doesnt know how to manage hos position. I did the opposite i created a pump earlier and price rose for 35% subsequently. Noone has made a substantial pump after mine. Ive only seen the occasional attempts
at a few btc in the buy book that gets eaten up slowly as price jist sits there waiting for sellers.

If ur smart u would buy half above market and then place half in the book in increments.

How does a pump work?  I'm not quite visualizing it from the above description.  I'd like to know this so I can recognize a pump when I see one on the exchange.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 08, 2013, 12:49:31 AM
This person seems like they already bought 11 or so btc and flashed 20 btc but remove it so they prob spending about 35 to 50 btc at this price. Seems like a noob because he doesnt know how dvc works. Any wall in the bid book will get eaten up slowly but to create a pump is what will drive others to buy. The wall will give incentive to selloff a big chunk to someone whonjust got the coins. A pump would have them add or hold thinking its rising. That person is either greedy or doesnt know how to manage hos position. I did the opposite i created a pump earlier and price rose for 35% subsequently. Noone has made a substantial pump after mine. Ive only seen the occasional attempts
at a few btc in the buy book that gets eaten up slowly as price jist sits there waiting for sellers.

If ur smart u would buy half above market and then place half in the book in increments.

Are you kidding?  This guy looks like he knows exactly what he's doing, he's trying to get the most for his money.  You really think a few guys spending a few grand are gonna pump devcoin up and keep it there?  That's foolish.  It's gonna take real demand and hundreds of thousands in consistent dollars to get devcoin up and keep it there.

Calling a guy greedy or dumb cause he's not purposely paying more than market value for devcoin is ridiculous.  This pump mentality is what keeps people away from speculative assets like devcoin.  Lets focus on fundamentals and hope bitcoin gets its ETF and then you'll see real market forces move devcoin to new all-time highs without the need for 2nd rate pump schemes which don't work for even a single day.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 08, 2013, 07:33:30 AM
This person seems like they already bought 11 or so btc and flashed 20 btc but remove it so they prob spending about 35 to 50 btc at this price. Seems like a noob because he doesnt know how dvc works. Any wall in the bid book will get eaten up slowly but to create a pump is what will drive others to buy. The wall will give incentive to selloff a big chunk to someone whonjust got the coins. A pump would have them add or hold thinking its rising. That person is either greedy or doesnt know how to manage hos position. I did the opposite i created a pump earlier and price rose for 35% subsequently. Noone has made a substantial pump after mine. Ive only seen the occasional attempts
at a few btc in the buy book that gets eaten up slowly as price jist sits there waiting for sellers.

If ur smart u would buy half above market and then place half in the book in increments.

Are you kidding?  This guy looks like he knows exactly what he's doing, he's trying to get the most for his money.  You really think a few guys spending a few grand are gonna pump devcoin up and keep it there?  That's foolish.  It's gonna take real demand and hundreds of thousands in consistent dollars to get devcoin up and keep it there.

Calling a guy greedy or dumb cause he's not purposely paying more than market value for devcoin is ridiculous.  This pump mentality is what keeps people away from speculative assets like devcoin.  Lets focus on fundamentals and hope bitcoin gets its ETF and then you'll see real market forces move devcoin to new all-time highs without the need for 2nd rate pump schemes which don't work for even a single day.
Wiser is probably right as always. Ive seem alot of these the last few months and price collapses after wall breaks seems like it will need a breakthrough to gain some traction.. the kimd you are talking about. Good to accumulate here for sure.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 09, 2013, 04:34:13 AM
I think round 25 is over at block 97,300 which is just a few days away.  I haven't even able to write much this month at all.

But I'm wondering if anybody knows how many shares we're looking at right now with the round almost over?  Last round we were at around 900 with about 1 week to go and by the end of the round we were over 1300. 

I'm trying to figure out if contributors dropped off this round or if we doubled yet again.

Thanks in advance. 


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alex0909 on July 09, 2013, 06:25:43 AM
buy wall being eaten needs reenforcement.

Volatility is the name of the game for another year or two.  If Bitcoin gets its own ETF then that will bring in many millions in various exchanges And also new investors. Eventually you get liquidity and less volatile swings. Until then just buy at these ridiculous lows cause if Bitocoin hits $1,000 next year then its very possible for Devcoin to see $1. 

There's a 1,000 to 1 ratio afterall so its very possible and if Bitcoin gets an ETF then I think $1,000 per bitcoin is almost a guarantee.


I dońt know if you meant 1/1000 on  block size but in value its more like 1/1 000 000 .
So  even if bitcoin gets to 1000$ we can't expect a 1$ value if our coin is not backed up by some service. Right now this is what we need for the price to go up,!


Title: Stories and Questions Thread
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 09, 2013, 06:33:21 AM
Luckybit and Wiser thought of a way for readers to request stories and get full answers to questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240540.0

To start, a moderated Stories and Question thread is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252709

Please post your story requests and questions there. You can ask for stories about something you're interested in, or ask questions for which you want a full, well written answer. The stories and answers will be devtome articles.


Title: Re: Stories and Questions Thread
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 09, 2013, 06:35:29 AM
Luckybit and Wiser thought of a way for readers to request stories and get full answers to questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240540.0

To start, a moderated Stories and Question thread is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252709

Please post your story requests and questions there. You can ask for stories about something you're interested in, or ask questions for which you want a full, well written answer. The stories and answers will be devtome articles.

What a great idea.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 09, 2013, 08:18:05 AM
Luckybit and Wiser thought of a way for readers to request stories and get full answers to questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240540.0

To start, a moderated Stories and Question thread is at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252709

Please post your story requests and questions there. You can ask for stories about something you're interested in, or ask questions for which you want a full, well written answer. The stories and answers will be devtome articles.

I love these ideas! I'm also going to take you up on your story... we need time frames listed though as well for final submissions.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 10, 2013, 12:32:06 AM
I wanted to see block sizes, which the the block explorers I knew about did not show.

So I put up http://devcoin.21stcenturymoneytalk.org/



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 10, 2013, 12:59:56 AM
I wanted to see block sizes, which the the block explorers I knew about did not show.

So I put up http://devcoin.21stcenturymoneytalk.org/



Just looked and you're right; all three existing ones just show the size on a per-transaction basis. Thanks!


Title: Twobits Block Explorer Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 10, 2013, 05:03:04 AM
I wanted to see block sizes, which the the block explorers I knew about did not show.

So I put up http://devcoin.21stcenturymoneytalk.org/

Thanks for the block explorer. Twobits is awarded the last 2 share block explorer bounty:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34586.msg937183#msg937183

and will get one share ongoing as long as his block explorer is working most of the time.

The block explorer bounty is finished.


Title: Luckybit and Wiser Article Idea Award
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 10, 2013, 05:08:11 AM
Luckybit and Wiser thought of a way for readers to request stories and get full answers to questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240540.0

from their idea, a story has been written:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252709.msg2694084#msg2694084

so they both get four shares for their successful idea:

..
If the idea succeeds, you and Wiser will get four shares. I will consider the idea a success if at least one big article is written because of it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 10, 2013, 07:40:20 AM
Well, each time i encrypt my devcoin wallet i am unable to open the client on my mac...
Already deleted all files and backed up my wallet from my cold storage, it just not working sigh*

I dont know where the problem comes from, it launches but at a point it stops working, like if it cannot open the wallet

Imagine users get that problem and dont have a backup for their wallet file... Happily i do.

I get this error : EXCEPTION: NSt8ios_base7failureE       
CDataStream::read() : end of data       
bitcoin in AppInit()       

I can't duplicate this.  Can you put at least the last 20 or so lines of debug.log at a pastbin site or something, and send me a pm with the link. Also exactly what version of the OS you are running and anything else like settings you have changes from the defaults that may help reproduce it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 10, 2013, 07:47:38 PM
This person seems like they already bought 11 or so btc and flashed 20 btc but remove it so they prob spending about 35 to 50 btc at this price. Seems like a noob because he doesnt know how dvc works. Any wall in the bid book will get eaten up slowly but to create a pump is what will drive others to buy. The wall will give incentive to selloff a big chunk to someone whonjust got the coins. A pump would have them add or hold thinking its rising. That person is either greedy or doesnt know how to manage hos position. I did the opposite i created a pump earlier and price rose for 35% subsequently. Noone has made a substantial pump after mine. Ive only seen the occasional attempts
at a few btc in the buy book that gets eaten up slowly as price jist sits there waiting for sellers.

If ur smart u would buy half above market and then place half in the book in increments.

Are you kidding?  This guy looks like he knows exactly what he's doing, he's trying to get the most for his money.  You really think a few guys spending a few grand are gonna pump devcoin up and keep it there?  That's foolish.  It's gonna take real demand and hundreds of thousands in consistent dollars to get devcoin up and keep it there.

Calling a guy greedy or dumb cause he's not purposely paying more than market value for devcoin is ridiculous.  This pump mentality is what keeps people away from speculative assets like devcoin.  Lets focus on fundamentals and hope bitcoin gets its ETF and then you'll see real market forces move devcoin to new all-time highs without the need for 2nd rate pump schemes which don't work for even a single day.
Wiser is probably right as always. Ive seem alot of these the last few months and price collapses after wall breaks seems like it will need a breakthrough to gain some traction.. the kimd you are talking about. Good to accumulate here for sure.

I appreciate my growing reputation as being always right ;)  However, I didn't actually say that.  And I still don't understand how a pump works :(


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 10, 2013, 07:48:57 PM
I think there's something funny with the quoting script because now it looks like someone else said what I just posted--the bit about being always right and not understanding how a pump works.


Title: Re: Luckybit and Wiser Article Idea Award
Post by: wiser on July 10, 2013, 07:50:33 PM
Wow!  I've been away from this thread for a few days.  What a nice surprise to come back to this.  Thanks!  

Off to publish my last article for this round!

Luckybit and Wiser thought of a way for readers to request stories and get full answers to questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240540.0

from their idea, a story has been written:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252709.msg2694084#msg2694084

so they both get four shares for their successful idea:

..
If the idea succeeds, you and Wiser will get four shares. I will consider the idea a success if at least one big article is written because of it.



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 10, 2013, 09:23:29 PM
I think there's something funny with the quoting script because now it looks like someone else said what I just posted--the bit about being always right and not understanding how a pump works.

As you said you got misattributed in what you say now misattributed again, I would bet that nothing funny is going on with the quote function, but that what is being quoted has unbalanced quote tags from someone's edit.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 11, 2013, 06:40:59 AM
how do I get on the developer list? Id liketo take more of a developer and or administrator role as I believe in the long term potential of dvc. I write software for a living.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 07:14:39 AM
how do I get on the developer list? Id liketo take more of a developer and or administrator role as I believe in the long term potential of dvc. I write software for a living.

Admins are chosen for their contributions but if you can code I'm sure you can be an asset as a developer.  My guess is start adding value by looking at the bounty list which shows what kind of work is needed the most and go from there.  That's what I've seen a lot of programmers do and they're then judged by the quality of their work. Good luck, and welcome aboard - this is a great alt coin.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: shakezula on July 11, 2013, 07:02:39 PM
Is each share worth 45K DVC or are these partials? I swear I read a share was 180K coins for this round, I searched back but can't see it. Can someone clarify? Are these quarter-shares?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 07:06:52 PM
Is each share worth 45K DVC or are these partials? I swear I read a share was 180K coins for this round, I searched back but can't see it. Can someone clarify? Are these quarter-shares?

 I don't think anyone knows how much each share for round 25 is worth yet.

Round 24 was 149,500 give or take a few hundred coins.  That was the lowest round so who knows where round 25 is now.  It could be 45,000 coins if we had tons of new writers come on board. 

It would be nice to have an idea how many shares we're looking at for this round.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 11, 2013, 07:09:41 PM
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alex0909 on July 11, 2013, 07:12:17 PM
Well, each time i encrypt my devcoin wallet i am unable to open the client on my mac...
Already deleted all files and backed up my wallet from my cold storage, it just not working sigh*

I dont know where the problem comes from, it launches but at a point it stops working, like if it cannot open the wallet

Imagine users get that problem and dont have a backup for their wallet file... Happily i do.

I get this error : EXCEPTION: NSt8ios_base7failureE      
CDataStream::read() : end of data      
bitcoin in AppInit()      

I can't duplicate this.  Can you put at least the last 20 or so lines of debug.log at a pastbin site or something, and send me a pm with the link. Also exactly what version of the OS you are running and anything else like settings you have changes from the defaults that may help reproduce it.


i'll try again later, well, it works when i launch the old daemon version first, then i close it and am able to open the new client !
Still manageable ! It fucks up with the encryption i guess!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 11, 2013, 07:13:53 PM
how do I get on the developer list? Id liketo take more of a developer and or administrator role as I believe in the long term potential of dvc. I write software for a living.

Are your coding skills up to the task of applying the merged-mining patches to a recent copy of bitcoin?

Right now that is probably about the most important coding task for all the merged mined coins, not only DeVCoin, as once it is done all of them will be able to update from it.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: shakezula on July 11, 2013, 07:22:09 PM
Is each share worth 45K DVC or are these partials? I swear I read a share was 180K coins for this round, I searched back but can't see it. Can someone clarify? Are these quarter-shares?

 I don't think anyone knows how much each share for round 25 is worth yet.

Round 24 was 149,500 give or take a few hundred coins.  That was the lowest round so who knows where round 25 is now.  It could be 45,000 coins if we had tons of new writers come on board.  

It would be nice to have an idea how many shares we're looking at for this round.

I actually meant round 24, so if i had 40 shares, would I be getting 40x149500? So far i've gotten ~33 payments at 45K each, just wondering how that worked?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 07:28:21 PM
Is each share worth 45K DVC or are these partials? I swear I read a share was 180K coins for this round, I searched back but can't see it. Can someone clarify? Are these quarter-shares?

 I don't think anyone knows how much each share for round 25 is worth yet.

Round 24 was 149,500 give or take a few hundred coins.  That was the lowest round so who knows where round 25 is now.  It could be 45,000 coins if we had tons of new writers come on board.  

It would be nice to have an idea how many shares we're looking at for this round.

I actually meant round 24, so if i had 40 shares, would I be getting 40x149500? So far i've gotten ~33 payments at 45K each, just wondering how that worked?

Correct, the blocks are 50,000 each but the miners keep 5,000 which is why you're seeing 45K.

You basically get paid all month long until you're all paid off.  It's kinda nice, like a daily paycheck.

Does anybody know about how many shares are in round 25 yet?  Normally there's a tally done with 1,000 blocks to go but we're past that and I haven't seen anything yet.  TIA.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 07:31:59 PM
how do I get on the developer list? Id liketo take more of a developer and or administrator role as I believe in the long term potential of dvc. I write software for a living.

Are your coding skills up to the task of applying the merged-mining patches to a recent copy of bitcoin?

Right now that is probably about the most important coding task for all the merged mined coins, not only DeVCoin, as once it is done all of them will be able to update from it.

-MarkM-


Mark, devcoin is already being merge-mined so which coin are you talking about or is the alt community looking at getting as many alt coins merge mined.  That would be awesome if possible.

Is it cheaper or easier of a coin is made to merge mine from the get-go?  Is it a lot of coding or something like a few hours?  Some day it's a big deal while other say its not that hard.  Difficult to tell who knows what.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 11, 2013, 07:43:36 PM
how do I get on the developer list? Id liketo take more of a developer and or administrator role as I believe in the long term potential of dvc. I write software for a living.

Are your coding skills up to the task of applying the merged-mining patches to a recent copy of bitcoin?

Right now that is probably about the most important coding task for all the merged mined coins, not only DeVCoin, as once it is done all of them will be able to update from it.

-MarkM-


Mark, devcoin is already being merge-mined so which coin are you talking about or is the alt community looking at getting as many alt coins merge mined.  That would be awesome if possible.

Is it cheaper or easier of a coin is made to merge mine from the get-go?  Is it a lot of coding or something like a few hours?  Some day it's a big deal while other say its not that hard.  Difficult to tell who knows what.

DeVCoin is no different from the other merged mined coins in its need to be updated to latest bitcoin code, for example the new type of database instead of the old BDB database, and the recent attack fix and so on and so on.

ALL the merged mined coins ALL are based on bitcoin-plus-ability-to-be-secondary-chain.

ALL of them thus need a copy of bitcoin with ability to act as a secondary chain added.

Once that exists, all of them can do thier trivial or not so trivial little search-and-replace changes of name, port, reward, whatever, that makes them each different from the others.

As the constant spew of crapcoins shows, it is trivially easy to do the 'make a different name/port/reward/etc coin' part. The hard part is to have a latest bitcoin that can act as a secondary chain. Once that exists, all the trivial change the name change the port change the reward etc is trivial.

So we need that baseline, then ALL the merged mined coins can ALL update to ALL the latest fixes, most of them as easily as all the cut and paste crapcoins are made.

Cut-and-paste of some ancient out of date code merged coin can make a crap merged coin as easily as all the crap scrypt coins are cut and pasted.

There is no latest bitcoin based merged coin to cut and paste to make a new crap merged coin based on latest bitcoin code.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on July 11, 2013, 07:46:23 PM
Mark, devcoin is already being merge-mined so which coin are you talking about

Devcoin is based on old version of Bitcoin, Mark wants same patches to be applied to a new version, so that all mm-alt-coins can be upgraded. This way they'll benefit from development which was done on Bitcoin mainline. Particularly, that will speedup blockchain download, also will eventually reduce disk space requirements (in theory, at least).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 11, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home

Done, lets get as many people on board as possible. This was my ticket:

"I strongly believe because we need inflationary/deflationary pressures in a monetary base that something like Devcoin will take off for many reasons. It is devalued because people have not realized the economic potential of the coin, and instead play speculative positions based on a deflationary system that perhaps has limited potential in the world for mass adoption.

Please add devcoin, I would like to use your exchange to offer many people to start using it. It will help greatly in our projects to direct customers to be able to convert fiat as well as adding credibility to the name itself.

Thanks,
Jag"


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: shakezula on July 11, 2013, 09:40:37 PM
Is each share worth 45K DVC or are these partials? I swear I read a share was 180K coins for this round, I searched back but can't see it. Can someone clarify? Are these quarter-shares?

 I don't think anyone knows how much each share for round 25 is worth yet.

Round 24 was 149,500 give or take a few hundred coins.  That was the lowest round so who knows where round 25 is now.  It could be 45,000 coins if we had tons of new writers come on board.  

It would be nice to have an idea how many shares we're looking at for this round.

I actually meant round 24, so if i had 40 shares, would I be getting 40x149500? So far i've gotten ~33 payments at 45K each, just wondering how that worked?

Correct, the blocks are 50,000 each but the miners keep 5,000 which is why you're seeing 45K.

You basically get paid all month long until you're all paid off.  It's kinda nice, like a daily paycheck.

Does anybody know about how many shares are in round 25 yet?  Normally there's a tally done with 1,000 blocks to go but we're past that and I haven't seen anything yet.  TIA.

Ahh gotcha, that makes sense. I noticed another thread that you got paid in the order of the blocks, so 45000 isn't a "share" per-say, rather its the block minted with your addy in it. So I should be expecting 40x14950 total coins, they just come in at 45K coins per payout...right?

I was thinking 40x45K didn't seem to jive with the 40x149.5K but now I see its a limit to the # of coins per block which you can get...anyone correct me if I'm wrong, if not, I'll keep enjoying the payouts :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 09:45:30 PM
@Shakezula,

Correct, it's 40 times coins per share which was nearly 150,000 per share.  The 45K blocks is just the way the coins show up.

Everything is on the up and up with devcoin.  My friends were telling me I was getting scammed and would never see a single coin but I took my chances and I got paid every coin I ever earned.  Devcoin and devtome are totally legit. 


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: shakezula on July 11, 2013, 09:47:39 PM
Devcoin and devtome are totally legit.  

I fully agree with you! I love writing on Devtome, just need to get back to it when I finish moving. Thanks for the help mate!

~edit, sent you a tip too :D


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 10:11:27 PM
Devcoin and devtome are totally legit.  

I fully agree with you! I love writing on Devtome, just need to get back to it when I finish moving. Thanks for the help mate!

~edit, sent you a tip too :D

Wow, seriously?  My first tip.  That's cool.  I presume devcoins.  I have a bunch of addresses up but I'll check my devcoin wallet in a bit.  Thanks a lot, didn't expect it.  Glad to help, I had so many questions as a newbie and I still do and some sr members get angry with newbie questions and I don't understand that.  

The bigger the devcoin community grow the better so all newbies should be treated right regardless of their questions.  Not all people understand this stuff - it was all so foreign to me.  

Thanks again and good luck.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: shakezula on July 11, 2013, 11:03:46 PM
Devcoin and devtome are totally legit.  

I fully agree with you! I love writing on Devtome, just need to get back to it when I finish moving. Thanks for the help mate!

~edit, sent you a tip too :D

Wow, seriously?  My first tip.  That's cool.  I presume devcoins.  I have a bunch of addresses up but I'll check my devcoin wallet in a bit.  Thanks a lot, didn't expect it.  Glad to help, I had so many questions as a newbie and I still do and some sr members get angry with newbie questions and I don't understand that.  

The bigger the devcoin community grow the better so all newbies should be treated right regardless of their questions.  Not all people understand this stuff - it was all so foreign to me.  

Thanks again and good luck.

Yep, 10K of DVC, sent to your Devtome addy.  ;D


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 11, 2013, 11:38:25 PM
Devcoin and devtome are totally legit.  

I fully agree with you! I love writing on Devtome, just need to get back to it when I finish moving. Thanks for the help mate!

~edit, sent you a tip too :D

Wow, seriously?  My first tip.  That's cool.  I presume devcoins.  I have a bunch of addresses up but I'll check my devcoin wallet in a bit.  Thanks a lot, didn't expect it.  Glad to help, I had so many questions as a newbie and I still do and some sr members get angry with newbie questions and I don't understand that.  

The bigger the devcoin community grow the better so all newbies should be treated right regardless of their questions.  Not all people understand this stuff - it was all so foreign to me.  

Thanks again and good luck.

Yep, 10K of DVC, sent to your Devtome addy.  ;D

Once again thanks again.  I thought maybe a couple K. The gesture means more than anything.  Thanks for being generous and thoughtful.  I hope I can return the favor to someone else soon.  We need more peopl with your character qualities around here.

Check your PM. I wanna return the favor with some advice based on what I've learned here the last 3 months but it would be off topic here.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 12, 2013, 07:50:23 AM
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home

Done, lets get as many people on board as possible. This was my ticket:

"I strongly believe because we need inflationary/deflationary pressures in a monetary base that something like Devcoin will take off for many reasons. It is devalued because people have not realized the economic potential of the coin, and instead play speculative positions based on a deflationary system that perhaps has limited potential in the world for mass adoption.

Please add devcoin, I would like to use your exchange to offer many people to start using it. It will help greatly in our projects to direct customers to be able to convert fiat as well as adding credibility to the name itself.

Thanks,
Jag"

We can make requests to add DVC everyday, it really is the least we could do. I did mine today as well. If their management hears it more often, they will eventually move towards it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 12, 2013, 07:53:38 AM
It'd be nice if everyone wasn't selling out too. Prices are dropping quickly and there are big walls on the buy side beating eaten up, :(.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 12, 2013, 08:07:22 AM
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home

Done, lets get as many people on board as possible. This was my ticket:

"I strongly believe because we need inflationary/deflationary pressures in a monetary base that something like Devcoin will take off for many reasons. It is devalued because people have not realized the economic potential of the coin, and instead play speculative positions based on a deflationary system that perhaps has limited potential in the world for mass adoption.

Please add devcoin, I would like to use your exchange to offer many people to start using it. It will help greatly in our projects to direct customers to be able to convert fiat as well as adding credibility to the name itself.

Thanks,
Jag"

We can make requests to add DVC everyday, it really is the least we could do. I did mine today as well. If their management hears it more often, they will eventually move towards it.

got this today from mtgox:
Hello,

Thank you for the email. There are plans to implement other crypto-currencies in the future, however none of these are currently confirmed."

We'll do an official announce a bit later once we're done with testing.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team"


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: metazilla on July 12, 2013, 10:15:16 AM
how do I get on the developer list? Id liketo take more of a developer and or administrator role as I believe in the long term potential of dvc. I write software for a living.

Are you talking about becoming a devcoin developer or earning devcoins for a separate open source project? If you want to earn devcoins for open source development there are instructions in the first post of the thread:

To get on a donation list to receive shares of devcoin, an open source developer should message the share administrator (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=91796) or post in this thread. For more information on developer shares, see the devtome page (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#developer).

Make sure to check out the devtome page in that quote for the requirements.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
Looks like round 25 is over.

Can somebody post a total share count so we can figure out how many coins per share this round.

Curious if the share count double again.  Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 09:59:41 PM
Ok, so nobody has any idea as to the shares for round 25, what about then the end of the round.

I read several times by reputable guys in here the end of round 25 is 97,300 but in the past there was the "end" and then another 1,000 blocks for the actual literal end. 

Can anybody comment on this?  Is 97,300 the real end or the 1,000 block heads up end?  I wrote only 3 articles all month long, this past month, due to serious family problems, but I really want to get at least a few articles in for this round but I don't know how much time I really have left.

Anyone

Much appreciated. 

Thank you!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 12, 2013, 10:36:13 PM
318k as of last night: http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt & yes 97,300: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 10:43:50 PM
318k as of last night: http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt & yes 97,300: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats

318,000?  What?  That's the value (coins) per share or the number of shares?  No way shares jumped that high, can it be possible?

Thanks for the response.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 12, 2013, 11:06:34 PM
Ok, so nobody has any idea as to the shares for round 25, what about then the end of the round.

I read several times by reputable guys in here the end of round 25 is 97,300 but in the past there was the "end" and then another 1,000 blocks for the actual literal end. 

Can anybody comment on this?  Is 97,300 the real end or the 1,000 block heads up end?  I wrote only 3 articles all month long, this past month, due to serious family problems, but I really want to get at least a few articles in for this round but I don't know how much time I really have left.

Anyone

Much appreciated. 

Thank you!


The end is at 97.3k. The other 1k is for making changes as needed (ex. someone should not be getting shares and such due to plagiarism). That time is just so there is a little more leeway for getting things taken care of instead of having people pop in right before the 97,300'th block with their spam in the hopes that they get "locked" into the system before they get caught.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:13:35 PM
Ok, so nobody has any idea as to the shares for round 25, what about then the end of the round.

I read several times by reputable guys in here the end of round 25 is 97,300 but in the past there was the "end" and then another 1,000 blocks for the actual literal end. 

Can anybody comment on this?  Is 97,300 the real end or the 1,000 block heads up end?  I wrote only 3 articles all month long, this past month, due to serious family problems, but I really want to get at least a few articles in for this round but I don't know how much time I really have left.

Anyone

Much appreciated. 

Thank you!


The end is at 97.3k. The other 1k is for making changes as needed (ex. someone should not be getting shares and such due to plagiarism). That time is just so there is a little more leeway for getting things taken care of instead of having people pop in right before the 97,300'th block with their spam in the hopes that they get "locked" into the system before they get caught.

So is that 1,000 extra blocks already in this 97,300 or will it be added to the 97,300 and so then one can write until 98,300.  In the past there was always a 1,000 block heads up.  TIA.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 12, 2013, 11:19:17 PM
Ok, so nobody has any idea as to the shares for round 25, what about then the end of the round.

I read several times by reputable guys in here the end of round 25 is 97,300 but in the past there was the "end" and then another 1,000 blocks for the actual literal end. 

Can anybody comment on this?  Is 97,300 the real end or the 1,000 block heads up end?  I wrote only 3 articles all month long, this past month, due to serious family problems, but I really want to get at least a few articles in for this round but I don't know how much time I really have left.

Anyone

Much appreciated. 

Thank you!


The end is at 97.3k. The other 1k is for making changes as needed (ex. someone should not be getting shares and such due to plagiarism). That time is just so there is a little more leeway for getting things taken care of instead of having people pop in right before the 97,300'th block with their spam in the hopes that they get "locked" into the system before they get caught.

So is that 1,000 extra blocks already in this 97,300 or will it be added to the 97,300 and so then one can write until 98,300.  In the past there was always a 1,000 block heads up.  TIA.

Almost positive that the cutoff is 97,300. The extra 1,000 blocks isn't for getting new content in, but rather so if we find discrepancies we can take care of them before the finalization occurs. Otherwise people would go spam the heck out of the site at block 97,290+ so that they could be finalized at 97,300. This gives us a thousand blocks (10 days or so) to go through and see what needs taken care of.

That's my understanding at least. Otherwise they wouldn't say the cutoff is at 97,300 but 98,300, :p.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:25:59 PM
Ok, so nobody has any idea as to the shares for round 25, what about then the end of the round.

I read several times by reputable guys in here the end of round 25 is 97,300 but in the past there was the "end" and then another 1,000 blocks for the actual literal end. 

Can anybody comment on this?  Is 97,300 the real end or the 1,000 block heads up end?  I wrote only 3 articles all month long, this past month, due to serious family problems, but I really want to get at least a few articles in for this round but I don't know how much time I really have left.

Anyone

Much appreciated. 

Thank you!


The end is at 97.3k. The other 1k is for making changes as needed (ex. someone should not be getting shares and such due to plagiarism). That time is just so there is a little more leeway for getting things taken care of instead of having people pop in right before the 97,300'th block with their spam in the hopes that they get "locked" into the system before they get caught.

So is that 1,000 extra blocks already in this 97,300 or will it be added to the 97,300 and so then one can write until 98,300.  In the past there was always a 1,000 block heads up.  TIA.

Almost positive that the cutoff is 97,300. The extra 1,000 blocks isn't for getting new content in, but rather so if we find discrepancies we can take care of them before the finalization occurs. Otherwise people would go spam the heck out of the site at block 97,290+ so that they could be finalized at 97,300. This gives us a thousand blocks (10 days or so) to go through and see what needs taken care of.

That's my understanding at least. Otherwise they wouldn't say the cutoff is at 97,300 but 98,300, :p.

When I first read devtome 3 months ago it said there was a 1,000 block heads up and during that time you could still write.  That's why I'm not sure if maybe this round that 1,000 block was never announced or if we do get 1,000 more blocks.


Title: Administrator Pay Increase
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 13, 2013, 12:35:46 AM
I'm boosting the maximum administrator pay from 9% to 10%, because the article admins have stopped scammers and drivel, which would of been more than 10% of the earnings. I don't know how charities keep administration at around 11%, it may be that they count some costs which devcoin considers administrative under other categories.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 13, 2013, 12:40:02 AM
I'm boosting the maximum administrator pay from 9% to 10%, because the article admins have stopped scammers and drivel, which would of been more than 10% of the earnings. I don't know how charities keep administration at around 11%, it may be that they count some costs which devcoin considers administrative under other categories.


Thanks! You're awesome, :). I'm glad you like the work us new admins have been doing, and I plan to continue with it!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 01:30:04 AM
So does anybody know if there's a 1,000 block pre-warning coming or is 97,300 the final block for round 25?

Every round since I've been here has had a 1,000 block heads up before the round actually ended and I even read it on devtome back then and it sounded like standard protocol.

Thanks once again.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: AtomSea on July 13, 2013, 01:50:12 AM
I love the basic philosophy of Dev coin - this is why i purchased some.
However, is the final amount set?  Or is it uncapped?
And if it isn't, what is the reason for that?
I am curious about the basics and the reasoning it was set as such.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 10:51:14 AM
Accumulative weighted word count at Devtome at end of Round 25 is charted below. If there's any changes I will update.

From http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_stats

http://www.devtome.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=stats:word_count_25.jpg

 

Thanks, looks like each share will be worth well under 100,000 coins for round 25.  No more going back now to where earning will be possible.  For round 24 I earned $3 per hour, now its looking like $2 per hour.  I don't know how much time I'll be able to contribute going forward.  Sucks, this was such a nice way to earn coins.  Too many earners from emerging 3rd world market is my guess.  Thanks and good luck.. 


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 13, 2013, 11:12:26 AM
Thanks, looks like each share will be worth well under 100,000 coins for round 25.  No more going back now to where earning will be possible.  For round 24 I earned $3 per hour, now its looking like $2 per hour.  I don't know how much time I'll be able to contribute going forward.  Sucks, this was such a nice way to earn coins.  Too many earners from emerging 3rd world market is my guess.  Thanks and good luck.. 
No it says cumulative word count and I posted some links earlier with running details for the round that you responded to, but obviously didn't read.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 11:20:41 AM
Thanks, looks like each share will be worth well under 100,000 coins for round 25.  No more going back now to where earning will be possible.  For round 24 I earned $3 per hour, now its looking like $2 per hour.  I don't know how much time I'll be able to contribute going forward.  Sucks, this was such a nice way to earn coins.  Too many earners from emerging 3rd world market is my guess.  Thanks and good luck.. 
No it says cumulative word count and I posted some links earlier with running details for the round that you responded to, but obviously didn't read.

I thought the links were for some other things I'll check it out now .  Thanks.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 11:22:55 AM
That is weighted word count not number of shares. I will graph the share distribution when I know the new Admin number of shares, and provide devcoin value per share.

Share count
Bitcoin share list - 17 shares
Bounties - 81 shares
Devcoin share list - 1 share
Devtome earnings - 446 shares
Marketing - 28 shares
Admin - not sure

Total = 573 shares <--Admin shares not included yet. Last round Admin shares were 70.




Not bad, better than last round.

Anybody know if writing for round 25 is now closed?  Not sure if that 1,000 block count was never given or not.  Cause now we're above the 97,300 deadline. I wanted to squeeze out one more article. 


Title: Round 25 Devtome Earnings
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 14, 2013, 06:17:39 AM
The round 25 devtome word earnings are pasted below and at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_earnings_25.csv

Alyssa85,1ERn5JRTm5P47LzhiLCbKtduwj9M3cPE81,3-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Alyssa85)
Ashleysly,1Mdu9MbAEsUm81NzEPQR7GCkUxbG39pWMy,6-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Ashleysly)
BitcoinAlchemist,1JBmwfJ4HmxTDDYwZY1rC63xR9h8Usqtat,2-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:BitcoinAlchemist)
Ceebizcut,1M5haKYJ8PJ43kHTs6okSBLj5gUhLRQiUJ,24-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Ceebizcut)
CryptoAddicto,1DKhy7jj8oB53iGZYrWzDSfcVoKHjsuxaa,11-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:CryptoAddicto)
Cryptopi,19GkNDjmTiGsmyCijGx6tpXdT67W3rNPHE,8-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Cryptopi)
DeadSea33,1A9qwtctYmYrCKSegy7RrNCUJxuohwFQmD,19-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:DeadSea33)
Dexter,18jMxk8jqwvgpx4wT48VAb6jGbYNazz4b7,22-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Dexter)
Eammy,1EPRS5bUm6USqLWZf5faBzZF2dXhHdyfgc,1-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Eammy)
Eeharris,1CfWWyDNUeioJc7TBnqDBDyQKJUYwT7S2Z,20-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Eeharris)
Emilianoz,1EykDePNj9311jvwcUaZczCjNFQ6Ep1zmi,9-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Emilianoz)
Eroxors,1GhARG75QssPfXntVLW5wwpqPP6H2fRbmo,2-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Eroxors)
Fheenix,1JvdsgxiJQYAJSE4Tjs3BWbXZk6Kw9mxnB,59-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Fheenix)
FuzzyBear,18xskifRMWUtMzbHSzQi7rEWF5upmktgF2,1-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:FuzzyBear)
Hellinoos,19xyjSda5tHdkdyYCSsEp9Psq9ELgKJrJd,10-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Hellinoos)
JackRussell,1CcWpm9HSqZwE96H3SeB7V1QGUhGHfxJh,4-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:JackRussell)
Maximilian_Wilhelm,1BroUgeCemQvWeYBekpFyEFGZVqrXnrtQ9,15-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Maximilian_Wilhelm)
Nsddev,1F5uDaCF8ZP6kiLHvDhWsSNPHP6kwt7udi,16-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Nsddev)
Pb321go,1BCLJDtMgucGgFE9GxKpeBZ2r1Ho5kuBso,80-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Pb321go)
Penguinwriter,1LNL1Zrg5h2z8m9c48fgdMx2uXmN3S5Kch,60-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:PenguinWriter)
Psalm,16y9hCqxESscRnBJwJskJpDACH4qUiRpA8,12-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Psalm)
Raptorak,1ASdsZ1JUwtVXDfYBx7MRNMeHQ8J51pSRw,80-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Raptorak)
Redmist,1KmDbkBGYzotq6aVf981H6aN2F5nc1SXdQ,1-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Redmist)
The_Goat_Master,1KGxe5my4BWjt9CExxPTWBRLVfdfeB6Ery,5-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:The_Goat_Master)
Wiser,1LpoMowMPEVWk2LaJUdAUNaK7gBDRA1r7F,39-Word Count(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Wiser)

They are generated by devtome.py:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome.py

The word counts for each writer are at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_25.csv

The word earnings were generated on 2013-07-13, and the total word counts follow below.

Collated Word Count: 409,316
Collated Weighted Word Count: 122,789
Images: 897
Original Word Count: 2,083,476
Total Word Count: 2,492,792
Total Weighted Word Count: 2,235,235

The Alexa three month page views are 0.0000069% and the one month page views are 0.0000039%:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/devtome.com#pageviews


Edit: The count for Pb321go was redone because his article Miss - A Radio Play was not seen by devtome.py, which has been fixed. Also Penguinwriter was not verified at the time, through no fault of his own. Penguinwriter actually wrote 80,000 words, but there was not enough time for an article admin to check his article so I limited the payout to 60 shares in this round. If an article admin approves it then he'll get the remainder of the payment in round 26. These changes added a total of 68 shares.


Title: Confirming Devcoin Address
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 14, 2013, 06:30:21 AM
I sent 23 dvc coins to the new writers below to confirm the devcoin address:

Eroxors
Luckybit
Nsddev
Pb321go
Redmist

For those on the list, please check that you received the coins, the receiver files will be generated in a day.


Title: Re: Confirming Devcoin Address
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 14, 2013, 07:46:24 AM
I sent 23 dvc coins to the new writers below to confirm the devcoin address:

Eroxors
Luckybit
Nsddev
Pb321go
Redmist

For those on the list, please check that you received the coins, the receiver files will be generated in a day.


Thanks, unthinkingbit.

Quick question which others are wondering.  Normally there's a 1,000 block heads up before the round is officially over.  This round there was no heads up or is this that heads up and we now have another 1,000 blocks to write or contribute for round 25?  Thanks.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: fishy on July 14, 2013, 08:13:03 AM
How do some people get 80k words?  O.o


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: rudrigorc2 on July 15, 2013, 01:16:00 PM
Is there a directory where I can see the published works  ???


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 15, 2013, 01:30:59 PM
Is there a directory where I can see the published works  ???
www.devtome.com - links on the left to sub pages


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 15, 2013, 10:01:16 PM
I'd like to toss out a thank-you to whoever is crashing DVC's prices. That's nice -- especially the person who sold out 20+ mil at once to the buy wall...

I really hope the prices start bouncing back. They're already down to below 70 SAT...



Title: Marketing Summary
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 16, 2013, 01:19:51 AM
The round 25 marketing earnings are pasted below and at:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/marketing_earnings_25.csv

Alex0909,1Mgvwf4B1VFWKyT91tYnRVPqpTv4ddrfVT,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Alex0909)
Alyssa85,1ERn5JRTm5P47LzhiLCbKtduwj9M3cPE81,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Alyssa85)
Ashleysly,1Mdu9MbAEsUm81NzEPQR7GCkUxbG39pWMy,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Ashleysly)
CryptoAddicto,1DKhy7jj8oB53iGZYrWzDSfcVoKHjsuxaa,7/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:CryptoAddicto)
Emfox,1Emfox1WswYcd2YucUskRzqfRWKkcm1Jut,34/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Emfox)
Emilianoz,1EykDePNj9311jvwcUaZczCjNFQ6Ep1zmi,3/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Emilianoz)
Fheenix,1JvdsgxiJQYAJSE4Tjs3BWbXZk6Kw9mxnB,16/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Fheenix)
FuzzyBear,18xskifRMWUtMzbHSzQi7rEWF5upmktgF2,13/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:FuzzyBear)
Grc,1FxaZmCkaqkKxbBz52fNAMe9bRn2GoECvf,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Grc)
Icoin,18HfzUZXGA3FZ1BM8abEmjBT9Wg52qQ4Sr,3/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Icoin)
JackRussell,1CcWpm9HSqZwE96H3SeB7V1QGUhGHfxJh,2/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:JackRussell)
Jasinlee,1Ahu957fXXwhJ5LqmpxMFHVWwSQ7h4PkXb,21/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Jasinlee)
Knotwork,121Pb2BBrU7C61vBdWCKVuFFmaEZr6xFAX,6/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Knotwork)
Marticps,12UVr7jmrEitXQfzDPXAQ7etiVaa21p4iT,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Marticps)
Metazilla,1CJSRunQtPQsiZRK7vznyeCfyDTb2kxGA8,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Metazilla)
Raptorak,1ASdsZ1JUwtVXDfYBx7MRNMeHQ8J51pSRw,14/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Raptorak)
The_Goat_Master,1KGxe5my4BWjt9CExxPTWBRLVfdfeB6Ery,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:The_Goat_Master)
Twobits,13A2e3wX9MVMtP1JMxGFcbd2ZuSeVLe8uZ,8/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Twobits)
Unthinkingbit,17vec4jQGCzMEsTnivizHPaowE715tu2CB,6/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Unthinkingbit)
Weisoq,1Cy9e1Yuwboj63XRkMkT6W6YsGDtYDrsUp,2/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Weisoq)
Wiser,1LpoMowMPEVWk2LaJUdAUNaK7gBDRA1r7F,1/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Wiser)
Xchrix,13Q4drkP51gHsabCUXC5XPEBEUUYurMdvB,18/5-Marketing(http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:Xchrix)

Total payout is 161/5 = 32.2.

The earnings are generated by marketing.py:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/marketing.py



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: MosinNagant on July 16, 2013, 08:04:54 PM
Just as a note, yes I'm still involved, yes I will edit my easter eggs on devtome -- and go devcoin! Please stop selling so much at once, despite being in hospital, I have been watching the market.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 16, 2013, 08:15:59 PM
Just as a note, yes I'm still involved, yes I will edit my easter eggs on devtome -- and go devcoin! Please stop selling so much at once, despite being in hospital, I have been watching the market.

That'd be nice... around 20 million more were dumped today. The price had almost bounced back to normal yesterday after the massive 50+ mil in dumps. I'm hoping it'll bounce back after this one too...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 16, 2013, 10:29:31 PM
I wondered how long it would take for the web-based-exchanges' prices to start trickling through to http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/plotdvc.html

That upward jag today in "prices denominated in DeVCoins" is the price of DeVCoins themselves finally starting to fall. Maybe some of those dirt cheap DeVCoins picked up in bulk have started to get sold off at the far higher prices these plots had been showing.

(Take a look at the actual prices the plots are plotting (http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/indevcoins.html)... TL;DR DeVCoins were worth triple or quadruple or more of the Vircurex price and are still worth multiple times the Vircurex price...)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: J.R. BOB DOBBS on July 16, 2013, 11:01:46 PM
I'd like to toss out a thank-you to whoever is crashing DVC's prices. That's nice -- especially the person who sold out 20+ mil at once to the buy wall...

I really hope the prices start bouncing back. They're already down to below 70 SAT...




it's all in good fun and plus we need to get bitcoin back in good standing give a little slack ! (=


Title: Redoubling Unawarded Bounties
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 17, 2013, 12:17:36 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part. This would redouble the bounties for the forum, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas), the pool:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

and Emfox's link faucet upgrade. Any objections?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 12:26:21 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part. This would redouble the bounties for the forum, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas), the pool:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

and Emfox's link faucet upgrade. Any objections?


I think what we need more than any of those is some sort of marketplace... none of the things in the bounty area help give the currency some value, as they all still leave it with one use: trading in to BTC.


Title: Re: Redoubling Unawarded Bounties
Post by: doublec on July 17, 2013, 12:35:14 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part.
What does "redoubling the bounties" mean? Do you mean multiplying them by 2?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 17, 2013, 12:37:07 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part. This would redouble the bounties for the forum, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas), the pool:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

and Emfox's link faucet upgrade. Any objections?

I think what we need more than any of those is some sort of marketplace... none of the things in the bounty area help give the currency some value, as they all still leave it with one use: trading in to BTC.

All of these things help indirectly. The forum would make it easier to communicate and organize projects, the Open Transactions Client would make it easier to trade cryptocurrencies and stocks, the pool would convert bitcoins to devcoins, and Emfox's link faucet upgrade would increase the popularity of devtome.

I agree that we should also have bounties for selling stuff in devcoins. For the marketplace, gift cards would be a good thing to sell, especially the Amazon gift card:
http://www.btc4amazon.com/
http://www.itradebtc.com/

because it gives a way to buy a huge selection of products. Devcoin businesses can buy gift cards with bitcoins, and send them by email to customers, therefore avoiding fiat and shipping. Is anyone selling gift cards for devcoins already?


Title: Re: Redoubling Unawarded Bounties
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 17, 2013, 12:38:03 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part.
What does "redoubling the bounties" mean? Do you mean multiplying them by 2?

Yup. For example the pool bounty used to be 16 shares, after the last doubling it became 32. With a redoubling, it would go to 64.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 12:47:15 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part. This would redouble the bounties for the forum, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas), the pool:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

and Emfox's link faucet upgrade. Any objections?

I think what we need more than any of those is some sort of marketplace... none of the things in the bounty area help give the currency some value, as they all still leave it with one use: trading in to BTC.

All of these things help indirectly. The forum would make it easier to communicate and organize projects, the Open Transactions Client would make it easier to trade cryptocurrencies and stocks, the pool would convert bitcoins to devcoins, and Emfox's link faucet upgrade would increase the popularity of devtome.

I agree that we should also have bounties for selling stuff in devcoins. For the marketplace, gift cards would be a good thing to sell, especially the Amazon gift card:
http://www.btc4amazon.com/
http://www.itradebtc.com/

because it gives a way to buy a huge selection of products. Devcoin businesses can buy gift cards with bitcoins, and send them by email to customers, therefore avoiding fiat and shipping. Is anyone selling gift cards for devcoins already?


But we have forums (devcointalk.org) and there are already MM pools (bitparking and a couple others)... I'm not following how increasing either of those will help considering they're already here, they just aren't being utilized as much as they should.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 17, 2013, 01:08:40 AM
..
But we have forums (devcointalk.org) and there are already MM pools (bitparking and a couple others)... I'm not following how increasing either of those will help considering they're already here, they just aren't being utilized as much as they should.

I want a forum which welcomes all cryptocurrencies, and is better in some way than existing forums, to encourage people to post there. There are already alt crypto forums, but because they're not better than what already exists, few people are posting there.

The pool bounty is for a pool which would pay out more devcoins than a merged mining pool because it would convert bitcoins to devcoins, and sends them to someone. Since it would sell bitcoins and buy devcoins, it would raise the price of devcoins in proportion to the gross take and in proportion to the how much people who receive devcoins hold them. For example, if the pool was as big as the original Mainframe Mining Cooperative:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24650.0

which at it's peak gave about 10 btc/month to developers, out of a total of then 200,000 btc/month generation, which today after block halving would be 5 btc/month. Assuming people receiving devcoins hold half, that would be a forced buying of 2.5 btc worth of devcoins per month.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 01:11:02 AM
..
But we have forums (devcointalk.org) and there are already MM pools (bitparking and a couple others)... I'm not following how increasing either of those will help considering they're already here, they just aren't being utilized as much as they should.

I want a forum which welcomes all cryptocurrencies, and is better in some way than existing forums, to encourage people to post there. There are already alt crypto forums, but because they're not better than what already exists, few people are posting there.

The pool bounty is for a pool which would pay out more devcoins than a merged mining pool because it would convert bitcoins to devcoins, and sends them to someone. Since it would sell bitcoins and buy devcoins, it would raise the price of devcoins in proportion to the gross take and in proportion to the how much people who receive devcoins hold them. For example, if the pool was as big as the original Mainframe Mining Cooperative:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24650.0

which at it's peak gave about 10 btc/month to developers, out of a total of then 200,000 btc/month generation, which today after block halving would be 5 btc/month. Assuming people receiving devcoins hold half, that would be a forced buying of 2.5 btc worth of devcoins per month.



Ahh, I see what you mean now. I think the pool is an excellent idea for sure; as long as it's converting like it should. There is someone here with a beta pool up that does the opposite (mines alts and converts in to BTC to pay out) so it's definitely doable.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 17, 2013, 04:19:43 AM
I'd like to toss out a thank-you to whoever is crashing DVC's prices. That's nice -- especially the person who sold out 20+ mil at once to the buy wall...

I really hope the prices start bouncing back. They're already down to below 70 SAT...



Its either coordinated by one person since the fontas pump at 200 or its the way price behaves on dvc. Usually when price sits on a wall too long you will see the wall get eaten up and price continues to sell.

This is what I said about knowing how to buy dvc
if you are a short term investor you do not place your entire order ina buy limit to try to get in at a better price. You should instigate a pump and follow through creating support along the way.

Wiser made a point that its irrelevant and it may be but at this point a series of pumps may be needed to get out of the basement. Thats how dvc price acts anyways... Havent seen a trial pump on dvc since i tried months ago.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 04:26:39 AM
I'd like to toss out a thank-you to whoever is crashing DVC's prices. That's nice -- especially the person who sold out 20+ mil at once to the buy wall...

I really hope the prices start bouncing back. They're already down to below 70 SAT...



Its either coordinated by one person since the fontas pump at 200 or its the way price behaves on dvc. Usually when price sits on a wall too long you will see the wall get eaten up and price continues to sell.

This is what I said about knowing how to buy dvc
if you are a short term investor you do not place your entire order ina buy limit to try to get in at a better price. You should instigate a pump and follow through creating support along the way.

Wiser made a point that its irrelevant and it may be but at this point a series of pumps may be needed to get out of the basement. Thats how dvc price acts anyways... Havent seen a trial pump on dvc since i tried months ago.

So you mean it should bounce back?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 17, 2013, 04:32:31 AM
I'd like to toss out a thank-you to whoever is crashing DVC's prices. That's nice -- especially the person who sold out 20+ mil at once to the buy wall...

I really hope the prices start bouncing back. They're already down to below 70 SAT...



Its either coordinated by one person since the fontas pump at 200 or its the way price behaves on dvc. Usually when price sits on a wall too long you will see the wall get eaten up and price continues to sell.

This is what I said about knowing how to buy dvc
if you are a short term investor you do not place your entire order ina buy limit to try to get in at a better price. You should instigate a pump and follow through creating support along the way.

Wiser made a point that its irrelevant and it may be but at this point a series of pumps may be needed to get out of the basement. Thats how dvc price acts anyways... Havent seen a trial pump on dvc since i tried months ago.

So you mean it should bounce back?

I have no doubt. I welcome the lower price and we probably will be lower for a while until the community can come up with something interesting to catch an eye. Its going to get harder and harder to get lower.

If there was a marketplace that would but in the end if you believe in the idea you stick by it and work towards the ultimate goal. I saw the value and the chart looks interesting so i stick with it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 17, 2013, 04:34:51 AM
Well how many people have yet another 20 million to dump for a pittance?

At some point even 80,000 devtome words per cycle will be worth less than 20 million per cycle presumably even if it isn't already, so where are dumpers going to keep finding yet another 20 million to dump?

The entire minting is only enough for 9 such dumps a month, and if they continue to dump at lower and lower prices it is going to take less and less bitcoins to pick up each 20 million they dump.

I am sure someone will go like wow yet another 20 million devcoins for less than a bitcoin for the lot, sheesh why not, I'll take them...

Plus even though the dumping has started to make a dent in the prices shown in e.g. http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc notice that BTC rate is still at BTCrate=392005.28810379 there as I write, despite Vircurex showing offers of 1,470,588.23529412 per bitcoin (aka BTCrate=1470588.23529412).

Maybe if more people who use web based exchanges also used Torchat and I2P and various games and of course Open Transactions servers, arbitrage would close such gaps faster than has often been the case.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 04:43:03 AM
Well how many people have yet another 20 million to dump for a pittance?

At some point even 80,000 devtome words per cycle will be worth less than 20 million per cycle presumably even if it isn't already, so where are dumpers going to keep finding yet another 20 million to dump?

The entire minting is only enough for 9 such dumps a month, and if they continue to dump at lower and lower prices it is going to take less and less bitcoins to pick up each 20 million they dump.

I am sure someone will go like wow yet another 20 million devcoins for less than a bitcoin for the lot, sheesh why not, I'll take them...

Plus even though the dumping has started to make a dent in the prices shown in e.g. http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc notice that BTC rate is still at BTCrate=392005.28810379 there as I write, despite Vircurex showing offers of 1,470,588.23529412 per bitcoin (aka BTCrate=1470588.23529412).

Maybe if more people who use web based exchanges also used Torchat and I2P and various games and of course Open Transactions servers, arbitrage would close such gaps faster than has often been the case.

-MarkM-


Yeah, I really don't know what your numbers mean there... ex. what is the BTCrate? Where does it come from or how do we relate it to anything?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 17, 2013, 05:00:46 AM
Well how many people have yet another 20 million to dump for a pittance?

At some point even 80,000 devtome words per cycle will be worth less than 20 million per cycle presumably even if it isn't already, so where are dumpers going to keep finding yet another 20 million to dump?

The entire minting is only enough for 9 such dumps a month, and if they continue to dump at lower and lower prices it is going to take less and less bitcoins to pick up each 20 million they dump.

I am sure someone will go like wow yet another 20 million devcoins for less than a bitcoin for the lot, sheesh why not, I'll take them...

Plus even though the dumping has started to make a dent in the prices shown in e.g. http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc notice that BTC rate is still at BTCrate=392005.28810379 there as I write, despite Vircurex showing offers of 1,470,588.23529412 per bitcoin (aka BTCrate=1470588.23529412).

Maybe if more people who use web based exchanges also used Torchat and I2P and various games and of course Open Transactions servers, arbitrage would close such gaps faster than has often been the case.

-MarkM-

So you mean that the price of dvc is 3x higher on that galaxies exchange than vircurex? Why wouldnt you just buy on vircurex and sell on galaxies for instant 3x gain?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 17, 2013, 05:04:42 AM
That latestrates file is intended for use by shell scripts and basically any script languages in which that simple syntax for assigning values to variables works.

One looks down the list to see which rate is equal to 1.00000000, in the case given you can see that is DVC (DeVCoins), indicating that whatever currency the rates (prices) are being shown in happens to be a currency in which devcoins are worth exactly 1.00000000, so its pretty obvious the prices shown are given in terms of devcoins.

Devcoin are convenient because they have more granularity than most (or maybe even more than any other) thus finer grained prices can be shown by pricing in devcoins than by pricing in, for example, bitcoins, number of decimals shown being equal.

So then, what we have there is the number of devcoins each of various other assets conversion rate is, aka what their price in devcoins is, ready for use in scripts.

The scripts they were originally set up for are market-maker scripts for Open Transactions, which would typically make offers at three different scales (lot sizes of 1, 10 and 100 coins, or lot sizes of 10, 100 and 1000 coins, or lot sizes of 100, 1000 and 10000 coins or even lot sizes of 1000, 10000 and 100000 coins (heck maybe even some pairs, like DVC/BTC might have used lot sizes of 10000, 100000 and 1000000 coins)).

The scripts would place offers in both ways round of the pair (e.g. BTC/DVC and DVC/BTC) at each scale (lot size), with higher markups for smaller scales than for lower scales, in order to facilitate buying wholesale to resell at retail kind of thing.

So basically the rates were intended for use like the rate charts tellers in banks used to look at when you wanted to buy or sell foreign currency at the bank; selling they'd sell with a slight markup, buying they'd buy at a slight discount. Thus only in pure abstract accounting would anyone normally/typically get the actual rates shown in this latestrates file.

As a concrete example consider a galactic mining operation that has debts denominated in devcoins and is delivering a fleetload of "deuterium" resource to a General Mining Corp depot.

General Mining Corp would offer some number of their own currency, GMC, for the resource. The miner says oh I want that applied against my debt, please. So the clerk uses a table that can be derived from that shown table simply by dividing all rates by GMCrate. That is, they use a table in which all rates are shown in terms of GMC, that is, a table in which GMCrate is the one shown as 1.00000000

So they can thus convert to any. In the case where the miner wants it applied against a devcoin-denominated debt obviously the latestrates we have already seen would have worked fine, since it already showed everything in terms of devcoins. I am merely trying to make it clear that by simple arithmetic one can from that table derive a table that gives all rates in terms of whichever one you prefer your rates to be denominated in, which in the case of GMCorp would probably be GMC.

Maybe even in pure abstract accounting ("unit of account") most moneygrubbing corps would do the extra work to apply a percentage service fee of some kind for the conversion. However historically it has often been the case, partly due to the fact that all assets on the Digitalis Open Transactions Server are integers, that miners doing such deliveries typically were not charged by percentage but the corp would simply do the rounding to integers in their own favour. (Presumably paying the clerk out of the rounding on the GMC side not out of some fraction of a devcoin of rounding on the devcoin side! ;))

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 05:08:55 AM
//Stuff here

Thanks a lot for that explanation, :). So where does the value of <400k DVC per BTC come from, when the value has been above a million for quite some time?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 17, 2013, 05:11:04 AM
what creates a rise in price is scarcity. Demand over supply. I see the case for it as more and more ppl are writing the % of those selling ppl who earn falls and creates an incentive for price to rise. As more stuff gets published real value is applied to the project and you see a recipe for growth. When people start getting involved in the bounties as price is rising or is stable you can see how it would blossom. Its wishful thinking probably but
I see that the fact that the 80k word dumpers we have recently will not have so much selling power as time goes on.

If writers drop off then price would probably follow.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 17, 2013, 05:13:06 AM
So you mean that the price of dvc is 3x higher on that galaxies exchange than vircurex? Why wouldnt you just buy on vircurex and sell on galaxies for instant 3x gain?

Well I think the players might consider it kind of sleazy, a kind of in game equivalent of "insider trading", for me to do that; as a dungeonmaster or gamemaster or server operator or game operator or whatever maybe leaving it up to the players to play those parts of "the game" might seem more-appropriate behaviour.

As to why e.g you don't, that might be something that you know better than others do?

Similarly for each player and for each person who happens not to be a player, their own reasons for not doing so are maybe best known by them.

(Don't know how or didn't realise the situation existed are likely very common reasons though, both among non-players and among players who happen not to be traders on the markets bitcointalk people are most-familiar with.)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 17, 2013, 05:18:40 AM
//Stuff here

So where does the value of <400k DVC per BTC come from, when the value has been above a million for quite some time?

Yeah I ask myself that too. I used to go through bouts of paranoia a lot that some bug in some script somewhere was making the entire edifice of valuation stuff totally out of whack somewhere.

Presumably though it is a simple and pretty direct consequence of who-ever usually took care of arbitraging that pair across those exchanges or families/collections of exchanges was on vacation or something. Like maybe there aren't really a whole lot of Vircurex BTC/DVC / Vircurex DVC/BTC folk active regularly who also regularly keep in touch with Galactic Milieu players who are interested in BTC or DVC.

Like really only General Financial Corp, General Mining Corp and General Retirement Funds encounter DVC much in the course of play, so only their staff or maybe the miners who sell to GMC or GRF who also have devcoin-denominated loans from GFC have any reason to maybe even pay much attention to the fact that such things as devcoins even exist, let alone such things as bitcoins (like what do bitcoins have to do with anything, really? The "Hacker" nation purported to use bitcoins as its national currency is widely regarded as a mythical civilisation the Martians invented so as to pretend the Martians didn't invent blockchain technology but actually got it from someone else...)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 17, 2013, 05:18:39 PM
I don't really know much about charts...but from the looks of DVC on Cryptocoincharts...we may have just touched the bottom.  I hope that you are correct in thinking the big sellers have all been left with far less DVC...and we can return to massive gains on a very cool coin project, that could very much shape the future of many other bitcoin related projects. 

I do own a little, so it's in my best interest for it to rise...but seriously, I like the looks of the chart...last time we were about here there was a massive spike in value.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 17, 2013, 05:31:32 PM
If we all just took 5 min a day to write and request mtgox, btc-e, and all the rest where there is no DVC yet, to add it, it could really make a difference. really more then just sitting anxious and hoping for the price to rise from doing nothing.
Write them NOW!
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://support.mtgox.com/home
https://twitter.com/MtGox



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 06:24:52 PM
If we all just took 5 min a day to write and request mtgox, btc-e, and all the rest where there is no DVC yet, to add it, it could really make a difference. really more then just sitting anxious and hoping for the price to rise from doing nothing.
Write them NOW!
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://support.mtgox.com/home
https://twitter.com/MtGox



Done!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 17, 2013, 06:32:39 PM
If we all just took 5 min a day to write and request mtgox, btc-e, and all the rest where there is no DVC yet, to add it, it could really make a difference. really more then just sitting anxious and hoping for the price to rise from doing nothing.
Write them NOW!
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://support.mtgox.com/home
https://twitter.com/MtGox



I'm game...might try the "Write for Devcoins" stuff as well!  I am totally down to write about them...though I know very little technical stuff about cryptocoins.

Has everyone seen the LTC/DVC option at Cryptsy?  Seems like an arbitrage opportunity in there somewhere when combined with BTC/LTC, and BTC/DVC on vircurex.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 06:36:59 PM
If we all just took 5 min a day to write and request mtgox, btc-e, and all the rest where there is no DVC yet, to add it, it could really make a difference. really more then just sitting anxious and hoping for the price to rise from doing nothing.
Write them NOW!
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://support.mtgox.com/home
https://twitter.com/MtGox



I'm game...might try the "Write for Devcoins" stuff as well!  I am totally down to write about them...though I know very little technical stuff about cryptocoins.

Has everyone seen the LTC/DVC option at Cryptsy?  Seems like an arbitrage opportunity in there somewhere when combined with BTC/LTC, and BTC/DVC on vircurex.

The LTC/DVC price on Cryptsy is over 2x what it should be. Unless you mean trading DVC for BTC on Virc, then taking the BTC to Cryptsy and trading it for LTC, then taking the LTC to BTC-E to trade to BTC and doing a circle like that, lol.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 17, 2013, 06:54:21 PM
It's just quoted the other way round. dvc/ltc = (dvc/btc) / (ltc/btc) = where it's priced on cryptsy


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 17, 2013, 06:56:49 PM
Any three pairs that interconnect will do...and rinse and repeat.  I may have to give this a go a little later, see how it works.

It's all about margins and making more than the fees + withdrawal fees...plus SPEED...gotta be as fast as possible on the trades.  Makes me think DGC will be fun to flip once it hits more markets, faster withdrawals would make for much better arbitrage opportunities.

Also, you can create bots to do all this for you on a script.  I would love to learn more about how to use a bot for trades, but I'm pretty sure you want to build your own rather than trust anyone else's, which means I'll have to learn how to build one first.

Markm's image is an excellent way of thinking about the arbitrage process visually.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 07:02:57 PM
It's just quoted the other way round. dvc/ltc = (dvc/btc) / (ltc/btc) = where it's priced on cryptsy

I mean... what I did is take:

LTC/BTC = 32 (it was 0.031 or so the last time I checked)
DVC/BTC = 1.2 mil when I checked
DVC/LTC*32 = it was like 2 million


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 17, 2013, 07:11:37 PM
It's just quoted the other way round. dvc/ltc = (dvc/btc) / (ltc/btc) = where it's priced on cryptsy

I mean... what I did is take:

LTC/BTC = 32 (it was 0.031 or so the last time I checked)
DVC/BTC = 1.2 mil when I checked
DVC/LTC*32 = it was like 2 million
That would work, except 1.2m implies a dvc/btc of 0.00000083


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 17, 2013, 07:22:50 PM
I just need to post more in the forums to get smart people to do the math for me more often!

It's just quoted the other way round. dvc/ltc = (dvc/btc) / (ltc/btc) = where it's priced on cryptsy

I mean... what I did is take:

LTC/BTC = 32 (it was 0.031 or so the last time I checked)
DVC/BTC = 1.2 mil when I checked
DVC/LTC*32 = it was like 2 million
That would work, except 1.2m implies a dvc/btc of 0.00000083

Basically you just convert it three times to something different, if it comes back that you've lost money on a calculator...reverse the direction...if the spread is better than the fees for withdrawal and exchange transaction fees combined any overage is how much you will make by playing coin leap frog.



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 17, 2013, 07:24:16 PM
I'm game...might try the "Write for Devcoins" stuff as well!  I am totally down to write about them...though I know very little technical stuff about cryptocoins.

Has everyone seen the LTC/DVC option at Cryptsy?  Seems like an arbitrage opportunity in there somewhere when combined with BTC/LTC, and BTC/DVC on vircurex.
You don't have to write about devcoins. Have a look at www.devtome.com - work in progress but should give you a better idea.
On the dvc/ltc arbitrage - if you want to save some coin I recommend you run through it on paper first...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 17, 2013, 07:29:58 PM
I'm game...might try the "Write for Devcoins" stuff as well!  I am totally down to write about them...though I know very little technical stuff about cryptocoins.

Has everyone seen the LTC/DVC option at Cryptsy?  Seems like an arbitrage opportunity in there somewhere when combined with BTC/LTC, and BTC/DVC on vircurex.
You don't have to write about devcoins. Have a look at www.devtome.com - work in progress but should give you a better idea.
On the dvc/ltc arbitrage - if you want to save some coin I recommend you run through it on paper first...

Yep...on paper first with a calculator handy.  Also noting the exchange fees and withdrawal fees would be wise.

Sweet...so I just pick a topic and write about it...sort of the Wiki of Cryptos in that regard!

Very nice...looks like I should dust off some of my hemp papers from my college course!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hotcoldcoin on July 17, 2013, 07:36:51 PM
Sweet...so I just pick a topic and write about it...sort of the Wiki of Cryptos in that regard!

Sweet perhaps, but the system totally lacks any quality control.  You can put pretty much anything on devtome as "writing" and get shares for it.   It's a shame the project is failing in that regard.    



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 17, 2013, 07:42:58 PM
I'm game...might try the "Write for Devcoins" stuff as well!  I am totally down to write about them...though I know very little technical stuff about cryptocoins.

Has everyone seen the LTC/DVC option at Cryptsy?  Seems like an arbitrage opportunity in there somewhere when combined with BTC/LTC, and BTC/DVC on vircurex.
You don't have to write about devcoins. Have a look at www.devtome.com - work in progress but should give you a better idea.
On the dvc/ltc arbitrage - if you want to save some coin I recommend you run through it on paper first...

Yep...on paper first with a calculator handy.  Also noting the exchange fees and withdrawal fees would be wise.

Sweet...so I just pick a topic and write about it...sort of the Wiki of Cryptos in that regard!
Pretty much - it's broad in terms of fiction and non-fiction, and opensource. Articles on cryptos generally are popular, so I suppose a prosepctive wiki of cryptos is one way of looking at it, eg. http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=e-currency


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 17, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
Pretty sure I need the devcoin font...how awesome is that.  

I'm the kind of geek that thought the documentary Helvetica was interesting.  How many signs have you read today in Helvetica?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 08:30:24 PM
I got a response back from BTC-e already. Here it is in its entirety:

----
no

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: IDR-846-75570


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 08:32:53 PM
Sweet...so I just pick a topic and write about it...sort of the Wiki of Cryptos in that regard!

Sweet perhaps, but the system totally lacks any quality control.  You can put pretty much anything on devtome as "writing" and get shares for it.   It's a shame the project is failing in that regard.   



Completely false. As of a couple weeks ago some of us have been given the job of ensuring that articles are up to quality standards. Multiple people have been removed from the payment list as a result or been declined, and many more have been contacted and have had to fix their articles or remove problematic ones.

Please do not spread false information around.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 17, 2013, 08:46:54 PM
I got a response back from BTC-e already. Here it is in its entirety:

----
no

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: IDR-846-75570
i know... i guess the admins have to forward the decision made above them. but i am pretty sure they also have to give statistics on the requests, and if "dvc adding" is ranking high, it might turn the dime... lets keep pushing every day!!!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 17, 2013, 08:49:48 PM
I got a response back from BTC-e already. Here it is in its entirety:

----
no

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: IDR-846-75570
i know... i guess the admins have to forward the decision made above them. but i am pretty sure they also have to give statistics on the requests, and if "dvc adding" is ranking high, it might turn the dime... lets keep pushing every day!!!

I hope it does something. I've gotta be honest... just having the only response given as "no" is disheartening for a business. They could at least take the time to send a proper response, even if it's a pre-written one. This doesn't make me feel too confident about their company/website at all.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 17, 2013, 08:51:41 PM
well, you can evaluate the customer service ;) i agree, this is pityful.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 18, 2013, 06:00:21 AM
Today I am in a bad mood. Sorry I will be a little bit rude and direct to the point, but....
In this forum many are worried about the low price of DVC. My opinion?
A coin like DVC, claiming to be for developers, it is not able to have good developers at its disposal.
Sorry for the comparison, but I just typed the word worldcoin: the first result is a complete, nice website.
I tried to type devcoin: the first website coming out is 1 page website, very elementary website. People need more to be convinced to put their money on it.
Secondly, it could be nice to have constant selling of DVC on websites like ebay: i knew of dvc on it, not on devtome.com.

Selling DVC on eBay is a fast way to get your eBay and Paypal accounts banned and frozen.

I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, :(.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 18, 2013, 06:03:37 AM
Completely false. As of a couple weeks ago some of us have been given the job of ensuring that articles are up to quality standards. Multiple people have been removed from the payment list as a result or been declined, and many more have been contacted and have had to fix their articles or remove problematic ones.

Please do not spread false information around.

I was watching the relevant files for round 25 very closely, and I noticed the number of writer shares go up and down, so I know that some content that was published got deleted or whatever other quality control measures were practiced.  And in the end, round 25 turned out to promise way more earnings for those of us who did NOT run afoul of the quality control, like 3 to 4 times more than round 24.  I am convinced the difference is that there was much less quality control in round 24 than round 25.  Good job admins!

On another note, I saw some posts about the relative value of DVC compared to BTC.  For what it's worth, here are two things that would seriously increase the value of DVC in my eyes, and I'm probably not the only one who feels this way.

1.  A web based online wallet for DVC that has everything Coinbase has including the ability to buy/sell into dollars by direct linking to your regular fiat bank account.  What Coinbase does for BTC is give it liquidity.  I can buy or sell my BTC without having to go through an exchange.  Obviously not good for making lots of trades, but for what a normal person (who isn't a currency trader) needs it's more than adequate.  That kind of liquidity adds value to a currency and would do wonders for DVC if it had a Coinbase.  Maybe those here writing letters to people should ask the good people at CoinBase to consider developing a wallet for DVC.  They are a pretty responsive lot.

2.  More solid investments for DVC.  Right now the only place I know of where I can invest my DVC is on Cryptostocks and there are a few DVC denominated securities.  I've looked into all of them.  The ASCMDVCPT one is the best place for "growing" the number of Devcoins, as the dividend payouts are generous and the company behind the stock is rock solid (last I checked anyway).  However, the stock itself is overvalued--sells for 2 to 3 times as much as it should compared to the equivalent on BTCT.co, so it's limited in terms of how much you can buy into it, and at some point it's bound to correct.  Of the other securities, there's a DVC bond which will yield about a 3.65% return per year--at least it has some interest but 3.65% is like standing still compared to other stocks which have estimated returns of 20 to 50%.  The DVB stock is interesting but I do not understand how the fundamentals work (i.e., what's being bought and sold, how profits are made, etc.) and no one seems to want to explain them to me, at least not in a language I (a non-technical, non-miner, non-programmer) can understand.  There's another stock that seems to be based on some sort of multilevel scheme involving pyramining and it finally paid its first dividend and again I just don't understand it well enough to feel confident investing in it.  That's it.  We need more.  I'd like to see some solid companies offer shares that are denominated in DVC.  When they come on the scene I will happily buy.

Someone else mentioned this but I'll reiterate--a marketplace for DVC would be helpful.  If I can buy some of what I need and pay for it with DVC, even gift cards to places I like to shop, then that would definitely make my DVC more valuable.  


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 18, 2013, 06:07:55 AM
The client needs the "latest bitcoin with mining as a secondary chain patches applied" thing that all merged mined coins need, since all of them need it it doesn't make a lot of sense for any of them to go ahead without doing that step first.

I did a bunch of the job already but then bitcoin updated again so I am not sure whether bitcoins latest update amounts to just another patch/pull to apply or would be better approached by starting over with latest bitcoin again applying the merged mine patches again.

Maybe once enough merged mined coins all decide they want to update they can each come up with a bounty to add to help encourage someone to make it happen. I unfortunately am so massively backlogged with other things I need to do that I only was able to apply the first few of the patches, basically the easiest ones to apply.

-MarkM-


EDIT: a DeVCoin gateway on Ripple would make for lots of liquidity but so far the only released code for such a gateway is said to not be production-quality yet plus of course one cannot yet run a rippled server since its code is also unavailable still. As to investments, the iphone and android apps for Open Transactions are not in the app-shops yet so most people have not gotten access to the various Open Transactions servers yet.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hotcoldcoin on July 18, 2013, 06:09:58 AM
Sweet...so I just pick a topic and write about it...sort of the Wiki of Cryptos in that regard!

Sweet perhaps, but the system totally lacks any quality control.  You can put pretty much anything on devtome as "writing" and get shares for it.   It's a shame the project is failing in that regard.    



Completely false. As of a couple weeks ago some of us have been given the job of ensuring that articles are up to quality standards. Multiple people have been removed from the payment list as a result or been declined, and many more have been contacted and have had to fix their articles or remove problematic ones.

Please do not spread false information around.

Please do not spread false advertising around.   Are you complicit in this "$10 Devcoin"  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234149) thing that has been on the devtome wiki for ages now, added by your former "promoter" FinShaggy?   I brought this false advertising to the attention of everybody on this forum, received assurances it would be removed, and guess what?  2 months later the false advertising is still there.  What other false items are on the wiki?   Where is the quality control?  I see NONE.

Get with it folks



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 18, 2013, 06:21:13 AM
I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, :(.

What it boils down to is that Devcoin and all things related to it (and I would say cryptocoins in general) need to be communicated to the non-geek audience in a language we can understand without being patronizing.  People who mess around with hardware and know how to write code tend to not necessarily be all that great on making a website that looks nice.  They also tend to not be very good writers in terms of being able to communicate the concepts in writing to a larger audience.

I'm working on a more developed article about this, but I think the real value of the stories and questions thread is not in generating made to order fiction, but in connecting the geniuses of the cryptoworld (those who start businesses but intend to raise funding through IPOs, those working on various bounty projects, etc.) with people like me who could write about them and communicate the features/benefits to a wider audience.  I can become knowledgeable enough to write about just about any subject if the one passionate about that subject is willing to take the time to tell me about the project and answer my questions (the interview process that freelance writers go through when they are writing a story) and have the attitude that no question is a stupid question.  Those are the people who need to be putting up bounties--the ones who have great ideas and are working on amazing things but who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to communicate in writing what they are doing to the world at large.  I know writing doesn't come easy to everyone.  Take Devda.ch, for example.  And this isn't meant to be a slam, but just something to help--the site is filled with pictures of stuff I have no idea what it is (other than it's computer related) with very little explanation, and absolutely NOTHING in the investor section.  That site needs content that average people can read and understand.  I (and other writers) can write that content as long as I'm given access to the people who are working on the projects.  And then so many more people can know what's going on and understand why it's so great and even possibly invest money in it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 18, 2013, 06:53:09 AM
Today I am in a bad mood. Sorry I will be a little bit rude and direct to the point, but....
In this forum many are worried about the low price of DVC. My opinion?
A coin like DVC, claiming to be for developers, it is not able to have good developers at its disposal.
Sorry for the comparison, but I just typed the word worldcoin: the first result is a complete, nice website.
I tried to type devcoin: the first website coming out is 1 page website, very elementary website. People need more to be convinced to put their money on it.
Secondly, it could be nice to have constant selling of DVC on websites like ebay: i knew of dvc on it, not on devtome.com.

Selling DVC on eBay is a fast way to get your eBay and Paypal accounts banned and frozen.

I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, :(.

I think the website is another case of the downside of bounties.  A few people expressed interest in doing or helping with one, but what got put up was the first thing someone with access to the domain could rush up.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 18, 2013, 06:54:45 AM
I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, :(.

What it boils down to is that Devcoin and all things related to it (and I would say cryptocoins in general) need to be communicated to the non-geek audience in a language we can understand without being patronizing.  People who mess around with hardware and know how to write code tend to not necessarily be all that great on making a website that looks nice.  They also tend to not be very good writers in terms of being able to communicate the concepts in writing to a larger audience.

I'm working on a more developed article about this, but I think the real value of the stories and questions thread is not in generating made to order fiction, but in connecting the geniuses of the cryptoworld (those who start businesses but intend to raise funding through IPOs, those working on various bounty projects, etc.) with people like me who could write about them and communicate the features/benefits to a wider audience.  I can become knowledgeable enough to write about just about any subject if the one passionate about that subject is willing to take the time to tell me about the project and answer my questions (the interview process that freelance writers go through when they are writing a story) and have the attitude that no question is a stupid question.  Those are the people who need to be putting up bounties--the ones who have great ideas and are working on amazing things but who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to communicate in writing what they are doing to the world at large.  I know writing doesn't come easy to everyone.  Take Devda.ch, for example.  And this isn't meant to be a slam, but just something to help--the site is filled with pictures of stuff I have no idea what it is (other than it's computer related) with very little explanation, and absolutely NOTHING in the investor section.  That site needs content that average people can read and understand.  I (and other writers) can write that content as long as I'm given access to the people who are working on the projects.  And then so many more people can know what's going on and understand why it's so great and even possibly invest money in it.

This is actually a very good point... on the note of writing, I can help out as well. I'm not as technologically-minded in terms of Bitcoin/Cryptos in general, but if I can understand what's going on I can break it down into simpler methods for others to understand as well.

@twobits -- this is an issue I have as well... bounties are based on the "first," rather than the best. I think bounties should work like anything else; you are paying for quality. Anyone can toss up a crappy forum that meets the requirements needed for the forum bounty. It takes more skill to get one together that is set up properly, works like everyone wants and is seen as being usable by everyone.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 18, 2013, 07:28:00 AM

1.  A web based online wallet for DVC that has everything Coinbase has including the ability to buy/sell into dollars by direct linking to your regular fiat bank account.  What Coinbase does for BTC is give it liquidity.  I can buy or sell my BTC without having to go through an exchange.  Obviously not good for making lots of trades, but for what a normal person (who isn't a currency trader) needs it's more than adequate.  That kind of liquidity adds value to a currency and would do wonders for DVC if it had a Coinbase.  Maybe those here writing letters to people should ask the good people at CoinBase to consider developing a wallet for DVC.  They are a pretty responsive lot.

I have very mixed feelings about web wallets in general.   They remove a lot of the purpose of the distributed blockchain.  It also benefits the network to have people running the blockchain verifying software.  However,  if people want to have and use web wallets,  then someone should make them available.  I do know that I prefer to see DVC kept as far away from direct fiat exchange as possible. I would prefer to see more coin2coin only exchanges like mcxnow.

Quote
is rock solid (last I checked anyway).  However, the stock itself is overvalued--sells for 2 to 3 times as much as it should compared to the equivalent on BTCT.co, so it's limited in terms of how much you can buy into it, and at some point it's

This is not true.  Aside from which , how do you pick which side of an arbitrage is the undervalued or overvalued side, the price has been more in line of a 33% variance for the actual  average price. Unfortunately the graph only shows peaks, which a one share sale can effect too much.  A few shares have gone at high prices, and the sell side of the order book of course shows that type of price.  However no one is filling them at those prices in general and buy orders get filled for much less then that. 


Quote
Someone else mentioned this but I'll reiterate--a marketplace for DVC would be helpful.  If I can buy some of what I need and pay for it with DVC, even gift cards to places I like to shop, then that would definitely make my DVC more valuable.  

This would be good.... a bitmit like site for devcoins.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 18, 2013, 07:47:35 AM
Those are the people who need to be putting up bounties--the ones who have great ideas and are working on amazing things but who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to communicate in writing what they are doing to the world at large.

This is actually a very good point... on the note of writing, I can help out as well. I'm not as technologically-minded in terms of Bitcoin/Cryptos in general, but if I can understand what's going on I can break it down into simpler methods for others to understand as well.

Actually this may show part of the culture shift going on with the project and especially the devtome part of it.   You think people doing work on other things should put up bounties.  However most of the stuff being done is open source,  with the people doing it giving away their time and expertise.  Now someone feels that was not enough, they should have to pay others to help them.  That is not how open source is supposed to work.

 I saw luckybit always saying how you can not blame the writers in earlier discussions.  I also saw someone go so far as to post their reply to an active discussion as a devtome article so they could get paid while participating in the discussion!!  This was when I had to take a break from things, as seeing things like that was just too frustrating.  In an OS project all members are supposed to help move towards the goals.    The concept of blaming or not blaming or not being able to blame a party would not even enter the discussion.   It is not meant to be, you do the task defined and only that and don't think about anything else.    I really think the culture is shifting and am not sure what it will become.



Quote
@twobits -- this is an issue I have as well... bounties are based on the "first," rather than the best. I think bounties should work like anything else; you are paying for quality. Anyone can toss up a crappy forum that meets the requirements needed for the forum bounty. It takes more skill to get one together that is set up properly, works like everyone wants and is seen as being usable by everyone.

There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 18, 2013, 09:07:34 AM
I got this answer from mtgox, to add DVC:
"Hello,

Thanks for contacting us.We would sure forward this to the management.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team"

so the managment does hear the repeated requests....


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 18, 2013, 09:14:41 AM
There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.

Maybe a job for google's "mail for your own domain" service (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google+mail+for+your+own+domain)?

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on July 18, 2013, 10:04:57 AM
There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.

Maybe a job for google's "mail for your own domain" service (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google+mail+for+your+own+domain)?

-MarkM-


I have doubts they would let me add a hook at the smtp level like I would want to.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 18, 2013, 12:51:07 PM
Actually this may show part of the culture shift going on with the project and especially the devtome part of it.   You think people doing work on other things should put up bounties.  However most of the stuff being done is open source,  with the people doing it giving away their time and expertise.  Now someone feels that was not enough, they should have to pay others to help them.  That is not how open source is supposed to work.

 I saw luckybit always saying how you can not blame the writers in earlier discussions.  I also saw someone go so far as to post their reply to an active discussion as a devtome article so they could get paid while participating in the discussion!!  This was when I had to take a break from things, as seeing things like that was just too frustrating.  In an OS project all members are supposed to help move towards the goals.    The concept of blaming or not blaming or not being able to blame a party would not even enter the discussion.   It is not meant to be, you do the task defined and only that and don't think about anything else.    I really think the culture is shifting and am not sure what it will become.

Quote
@twobits -- this is an issue I have as well... bounties are based on the "first," rather than the best. I think bounties should work like anything else; you are paying for quality. Anyone can toss up a crappy forum that meets the requirements needed for the forum bounty. It takes more skill to get one together that is set up properly, works like everyone wants and is seen as being usable by everyone.

There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.
I agree. I said a while back that the devtome payment system may prove counter productive as it stands - because without capping per user share as % of total growing popularity would create a market skewed towards transient sellers, rather than buyers or holders or those interested in funding continuation of the idea and others from their own payment. Obviously all the basics of establishing decent and appealing venues for Devcoin itself need to be completed (maybe funded by those who'd like to see them happen...?) but I think itís worth going back to square one and asking what the basics of the concept are, because like you I don't really get the 'culture shift'.

If a bounty or share is paid for a project or effort, but the dvc bid interest is insufficient to reward them at such a value, that implies the financed project (or collective efforts) isnít monetised or valued enough to warrant the payment at that level. Simple as that. So any constructive assessment of long-term value needs to start from the question of what are people willing to pay for directly, or what can be monetised to create a payment structure indirectly. That then raises the open-source issue, so perhaps the bigger question is an honest appraisal of which open-source efforts are nice ideas vs which ones are nice ideas that people will actually pay to see or use or advance, and how to reconcile the two.

For example, markm's point about pathes for merged mined coin clients - that could be a straightforward collaboration with other merged mined coin owners or agreement to use devcoin as a funding or facilitation mechanism to get it done. But to date it hasn't happened. Is that because few knew about the requirement, because there's no real interest, because it's difficult and time consuming and therefore expensive, because all coins see collaboration as self-undermining etc etc? I think answering that question mattters.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 18, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Just to clarify what I meant earlier about individuals putting up bounties in addition to regular Devtome earnings for specific pieces of writing... I'm referring to the stories and questions thread Unthinkingbit set up as a result of an idea I and someone else had to combine the part where you can write whatever you want and also be more motivated to write content someone else wants/needs.  I was making the point that people behind the development of projects would greatly benefit from having those projects communicated to a wider audience in writing--very similar to how a business might pay a writer to write up a product brochure.  I wasn't referring to anything else.

I'm new so can't comment much on the culture shift... but IMO any shift that moves towards bringing more people on board (interested in Devcoins), especially more mainstream types, is likely to be positive.

As for publishing an article on the Devtome inspired by a forum discussion, I did that.  I thought of that because I read a post in which someone said it was great that the Devtome would allow for one to directly benefit from sharing an idea even if they didn't actually develop the idea.  I had ideas.  I shared them.  I got paid.  People on this forum shared my article and there was some discussion about it.  I don't see the problem.  However, if that ever becomes against the rules I will respect that.  The admins look over my writing same as everyone else's.  They can decide it shouldn't be there and I will accept it as long as the reasons given are clearly explained and consistent for all writers.  Actually even if my writing was being unfairly picked on, I'd probably accept that too.  The Devtome pays, which means the Devtome is the client (the customer) and the general truth in business is the customer is always right.

I have a busy day and won't be able to keep up with this thread today.  But just wanted to respond to a few things that were written after I posted last night and make sure I'd clearly communicated what I meant to say.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 19, 2013, 08:31:50 AM
I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: 5Dzz on July 19, 2013, 09:16:26 AM
Hi, I signed up on Devtome a few weeks ago and wrote a article.
It's there posted and just waiting for the earnings script to verify
everything's accounted for so I can write more.

User: ecafe

When I checked the earnings spreadsheet I did not see my username
or any sign I was being counted in the system yet.  If someone can
please verify or add me so I can be sure my writing is being
acknowledged I would really appreciate it.

Thanks very much   :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: 5Dzz on July 19, 2013, 10:48:57 AM
Hi notabot,  thanks very much for the reply.
I'm happy to read your post.  Just learning the Devtome
system and ready to focus on writing more now  ;D

Very much appreciate your reply and great information,
and looking forward to being part of the Devtome
and Devcoin community.

 :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on July 19, 2013, 01:55:52 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 19, 2013, 02:57:04 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: hennessyhemp on July 19, 2013, 03:16:56 PM
DevCoin + OpenSim...I love the possibilities...it'd be like Devtome in a virtual coffee shop where people actually get together to discuss things they care about, and more...use Devcoin to buy things like art and more in sim things which could have real life counterparts waiting to ship...you could do a virtual art tour, then buy the artwork with devcoins and have it shipped, but it would be more like going to a gallery than a site like ebay, because you could even interact with the other visitors and you could bid against other real world art buyers, in real time.

I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg, but I fully support this idea and will be happy to try it and report bugs, hell, I should open a virtual hemp store (sorry no thc in industrial hemp...that would be cool too though...a TOR protected part of the SIM for the less above ground stores, I don't know if that's at all possible, but this is a network of computer engineers here....ready, go).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 19, 2013, 03:52:03 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 19, 2013, 05:25:00 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?
Interesting. What do you mean by 'progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?'


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 19, 2013, 08:20:20 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?
Interesting. What do you mean by 'progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?'

He offered up a bounty for someone to write a Namecoin-cloning tutorial.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 19, 2013, 09:26:01 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.

See http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=galactic_milieu

For OpenSim regions, search for Digitalis on OSgrid. I actually have/had not just some regions with Digitalis in the name but also some generic names among the block of 29 or so regions I was running when testing how much resources it actually takes to run regions. Like Garden Centre, Adult Shopping Centre, Welcome Centre, Avatar Centre and so on, fresh out of the OAR file examples of Linda Kelly free open source regions. currently many of the regions that were up some days ago are down due to load problems; some of Linda's OARs ended up eating 100% of a core each, for example, even when no one was anywhere near them, just constant 24/7 load.

Even if we fudge a little, referring to 1024 metres by 1024 metres (a 4x4 square made up of sixteen regions) as a "square mile", and scale our Freeciv maps as if the tiles were only 100 kiliometers by 100 kilometres instead of 100 miles or more by 100 miles or more, it takes a heck of a lot of Open Simulator regions to represent at full scale even just one Freeciv planet... So the dynamic loading of regions as players enter regions adjacent to them will be really useful if the service that currently has that, based on Amazon instances, as closed source code ever actually opens their code or the community ends up re-inventing that wheel due to that service not getting around soon enough to releasing it.

We have been working on the idea of taking the so called "square miles" that Freeciv says a civilisation has and using that figure as the basis for hosting fees for hosting civilisations, but the scale, so many regions per square mile multiplied by so many square miles, still makes a massive gap even though that "square miles" reported by Freeciv does not seem to really include every square mile of every tile you control. (It is less than you'd get by figuring each tile is only 10,000 square kilometres, that is 100km by 100km, and counted every square kilometre of each tile that is within the civilisation's borders.)

The gap is that between how much it would cost if the entire civilisation was all fully ready for OpenSimulator players to walk into/over any part of it, compared to how much it would cost if all that was actually implemented was the Freeciv server running the planet the civilisation is located on...

...Plus of course details such as whether each and every market, bank and stock exchange's trading has an Open Transactions server representing/implementing it on detailed scale or whether merely each city that as a market and/or bank and/or stock exchange uses just one Open Transactions server to present all such services available in that city, or even just each civilisations has just one Open Transactions server representing all such services available in any city of that civilisation...

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 19, 2013, 10:10:01 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.

See http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=galactic_milieu

For OpenSim regions, search for Digitalis on OSgrid. I actually have/had not just some regions with Digitalis in the name but also some generic names among the block of 29 or so regions I was running when testing how much resources it actually takes to run regions. Like Garden Centre, Adult Shopping Centre, Welcome Centre, Avatar Centre and so on, fresh out of the OAR file examples of Linda Kelly free open source regions. currently many of the regions that were up some days ago are down due to load problems; some of Linda's OARs ended up eating 100% of a core each, for example, even when no one was anywhere near them, just constant 24/7 load.

Even if we fudge a little, referring to 1024 metres by 1024 metres (a 4x4 square made up of sixteen regions) as a "square mile", and scale our Freeciv maps as if the tiles were only 100 kiliometers by 100 kilometres instead of 100 miles or more by 100 miles or more, it takes a heck of a lot of Open Simulator regions to represent at full scale even just one Freeciv planet... So the dynamic loading of regions as players enter regions adjacent to them will be really useful if the service that currently has that, based on Amazon instances, as closed source code ever actually opens their code or the community ends up re-inventing that wheel due to that service not getting around soon enough to releasing it.

We have been working on the idea of taking the so called "square miles" that Freeciv says a civilisation has and using that figure as the basis for hosting fees for hosting civilisations, but the scale, so many regions per square mile multiplied by so many square miles, still makes a massive gap even though that "square miles" reported by Freeciv does not seem to really include every square mile of every tile you control. (It is less than you'd get by figuring each tile is only 10,000 square kilometres, that is 100km by 100km, and counted every square kilometre of each tile that is within the civilisation's borders.)

The gap is that between how much it would cost if the entire civilisation was all fully ready for OpenSimulator players to walk into/over any part of it, compared to how much it would cost if all that was actually implemented was the Freeciv server running the planet the civilisation is located on...

...Plus of course details such as whether each and every market, bank and stock exchange's trading has an Open Transactions server representing/implementing it on detailed scale or whether merely each city that as a market and/or bank and/or stock exchange uses just one Open Transactions server to present all such services available in that city, or even just each civilisations has just one Open Transactions server representing all such services available in any city of that civilisation...

-MarkM-


I've tried to get on your server in the past but I can't get a client to run properly, :(. The Java one shows a black screen unless I alt/tab (so it shows previews of windows) in which it will show the true screen until I make it the focus again and then it goes black.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 19, 2013, 11:11:09 PM
I've tried to get on your server in the past but I can't get a client to run properly, :(. The Java one shows a black screen unless I alt/tab (so it shows previews of windows) in which it will show the true screen until I make it the focus again and then it goes black.

Do you mean the CrossCiv server in my sig? If so Crossfire is still very unstable, there is even a certain door that seems to have about a 50% chance of crashing the server when someone opens it. There also seem to be ways of crashing it during character creation. It seems maybe the specific sets of maps most public Crossfire servers us do not, or do not often, find those bugs so in years they still have not been tracked down and fixed.

For years i have been hopiong that the general progress toward elinminating ways in which a mailicious map-designer could design a map capable of crashing a server would eventually fix whatever my particular sets of maps are still managing to find, but no luck with that so far.

Also the link I give for a java based client that in theory browsers could be set up to be able to launch directly from a website is for a daily build, so some days it might work better than others and of course somebrowsers might be wisely set not to run java directly from websites.

Also some distros of some operating systems have quite old versions of Crossfire clients in their installable packages collections, for quite a while because i was using latest sVN to build from no distros at all provided pre-packaged clients up to date enough to work.

It has long ago been pretty firmly refuted that if you build it they will come, so the fact that very few people come via Crossfire clients has, over time, led to support/development effots tending to drift away from that particular set of clients and windows-into-the-Milieu-multiverse to others.

For example CoffeeMUD turned out to be a much more popular doorway, since there are web-based MUD-clients aplenty, compiled MUD clients aplenty for most platforms, and they can be played with just telnet, which presumably any platform that has internet access has in its toolkit.

Right now though you also would find cofeeMUD blocked to you... popularity has its downsides. We are looking into batch sales of player-accounts in order to be able to properly budget servers. You no longer just appear out of no-where and create a character out of nothing, with clothes out of nothing and maybe gear out of nothing, rather your clan or nation or whatever would be buying a batch of 100 or 1000 or whatever user-accounts to divvy up among their members/citizens/whatever as they see fit.

OpenSim though you should find some of our regions currently online on OSgrid, albeit i think the ones online there right now are either unmodified or not much modified linda Kelley OARs no hand-built landscapes with custom new architecture on it there yet.

Then too of course there are web-based systems too, but there too simply allowing random internet passers-by to create whole new villages or planetary mining operations out of nothing had to go, so there you'd first need to get a character on Crossfire or a MUD or some other individual character level of play up to a point where they equipped themselves with enough followers to go found a village or enough space-travel hardware to equip themselves with an intergalactic mining colony ship in order to get into those scales of play.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 19, 2013, 11:15:45 PM
//Removed

Lol, every time I read something about that game I get overwhelmed... I don't quite follow. As a person on Windows 8 that has no idea where to even start, what should we do?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 19, 2013, 11:28:15 PM
Des anybody know the value of each share for round 25 yet?   It's looking like 300,000 coins which is pretty good but that's just a guess on my part.  I wish i would have written a bit more but i was busy with family issues and running a nuggets circus.  TIA.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 19, 2013, 11:41:05 PM
// stuff about Galactic Milieu (http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=galactic_milieu) game(s)

Lol, every time I read something about that game I get overwhelmed... I don't quite follow. As a person on Windows 8 that has no idea where to even start, what should we do?

Well maybe you could round up more people who are on Windows 8 and form a Windows Clan or Windows Nation or Eight Clan or Eight Nation or something, or choose among yourselves some nation that is actually implemented in Freeciv as the nation you lot would like to run if you are interested in strategic scales of play. Or you could all get together and enter a MUD server or the Crossfire server aiming to try to get a clan-house set up.

If you all by yourself wander into some rabbit-hole into the game it is not really practical to have staff sitting at computers 24/7 watching waiting ready to hand-hold you, that is why I suggest getting a group/clan/whatever together. A hundred Windows 8 users who can be relied upon either to be 24/7 inhabitants or to regularly hold get-togethers on some specific schedule would make it much more feasible to look into budgeting some kind of support/help/introducer staff to meet with them in whichever rabbit-hole they want to use.

For years and years now the CrossCiv server has been sitting there but it must be at least a year now maybe two since one would see a dozen or two dozen characters on there at once, heck come to think of it it was back before the opportunity to become CEOs of intergalactic mining operations via web-based operations-control interfaces.

In theory/principle those characters are still in their keeps or houses or rooms in the CrossCiv server, using web-browsers to control their intergalactic mining operations.

In practice though over time fewer and fewer players bothered to leave their CrossCiv character online 24/7 so they could chat like one does in IRC, as once they came to know each other individually they tended more and more to use Torchat or gosh knows what else (Yahoo messenger? Google messenger? MSN messenger? Skype?) to communicate with one-another. Heck there is even a message sending capability inside the web-based village-management system and the web-based intergalactic mining operations system.

I guess the Galactic Milieu really takes to an extreme the problem of the larger the universe the players can spread themselves out into the less chance there is of actually encountering another player in whatever locale you yourself happen to wander into. Facilities permitting everyone in the whole unviverse to shout out to everyone in the whole universe have problems too though, especially before the advent of faster than light, multi-galaxies range communications systems. One thing that needs doing over the long term is setting up appropriate economics, like how much would it actually cost on a given planet at a given technology level under a certain government type to make an intergalactic call to a friend, how much to an enemy of the government that is in control of the area you are trying to call out from and so on?

A lot of the opportunity available to traders who actually make the trek to remote places to discover what deals might be findable there vanishes if anyone in any galaxy can instantly look up who on what planet of which galaxy can intergalactic-teleport them a magic sword of the best quality cheapest and fastest...

Yet for bitcointalk users it seems likely the interface they are going to like best will be one in which that is exactly what they can do: find what game offers cheapest what some other game pays the most for and how to ship an appropriate quantity of it out of the one game into the other game at a profit after shipping-expenses...
 
-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 20, 2013, 01:42:00 AM
Quote
For OpenSim regions, search for Digitalis on OSgrid. I actually have/had not just some regions with Digitalis in the name but also some generic names among the block of 29 or so regions I was running when testing how much resources it actually takes to run regions. Like Garden Centre, Adult Shopping Centre, Welcome Centre, Avatar Centre and so on, fresh out of the OAR file examples of Linda Kelly free open source regions. currently many of the regions that were up some days ago are down due to load problems; some of Linda's OARs ended up eating 100% of a core each, for example, even when no one was anywhere near them, just constant 24/7 load.

I love it that you run your regions, the load is caused by not properly running scripts, no worries same shit happens in SL, there is a way to locate such scripts in a loaded oar.
But i doubt that economy will come to osgrid, they have a strict "no economy" policy. Allso its gonna be not possible to implement that kind of economy without a securing chain working with Hypergrid, thats why the namecoin clone is needed (we definitly dont wonna bloat namecoin)

I dnt run a region in osgrid, i run a grid with regions and megaregions (5x 3.2 ghz + 10 GB Ram), but it is down actualy, since i need the server atm for other purposes. And everything starts to become needed after the Opensimulator Meetup in september.
Not just the owner of the frech grid for example is working with us (unthinkingbit listed ssm on the DVC developers list), if everything goes well there will be economy to.

Do we have good 3d artists here ?

Ah yes and we gonna need, Scripters, Artists, Hosts,Managers, DJ's, Security, Pole Dancers, Hookers, what ever you was in SL you can soon be in OpenSimulator to. Do you imagine how that will boost the DVC economy? grins.

I thank unthinkingbit for making DVC that cheap, its a awesome gift for the hypergrid ;)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 20, 2013, 01:45:43 AM
Quote
For OpenSim regions, search for Digitalis on OSgrid. I actually have/had not just some regions with Digitalis in the name but also some generic names among the block of 29 or so regions I was running when testing how much resources it actually takes to run regions. Like Garden Centre, Adult Shopping Centre, Welcome Centre, Avatar Centre and so on, fresh out of the OAR file examples of Linda Kelly free open source regions. currently many of the regions that were up some days ago are down due to load problems; some of Linda's OARs ended up eating 100% of a core each, for example, even when no one was anywhere near them, just constant 24/7 load.

I love it that you run your regions, the load is caused by not properly running scripts, no worries same shit happens in SL, there is a way to locate such scripts in a loaded oar.
But i doubt that economy will come to osgrid, they have a strict "no economy" policy. Allso its gonna be not possible to implement that kind of economy without a securing chain working with Hypergrid, thats why the namecoin clone is needed (we definitly dont wonna bloat namecoin)

I dnt run a region in osgrid, i run a grid with regions and megaregions (5x 3.2 ghz + 10 GB Ram), but it is down actualy, since i need the server atm for other purposes. And everything starts to become needed after the Opensimulator Meetup in september.
Not just the owner of the frech grid for example is working with us (unthinkingbit listed ssm on the DVC developers list), if everything goes well there will be economy to.

Do we have good 3d artists here ?

Ah yes and we gonna need, Scripters, Artists, Hosts,Managers, DJ's, Security, Pole Dancers, Hookers, what ever you was in SL you can soon be in OpenSimulator to. Do you imagine how that will boost the DVC economy? grins.

I thank unthinkingbit for making DVC that cheap, its a awesome gift for the hypergrid ;)

Wait, so you mean there is really going to be a game where DVC is going to be the currency used within it? If so, that's awesome! I'd love to hear when there's a private Alpha or something we can check out to help iron out bugs, give input, etc.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 20, 2013, 01:53:45 AM
Quote

Wait, so you mean there is really going to be a game where DVC is going to be the currency used within it? If so, that's awesome! I'd love to hear when there's a private Alpha or something we can check out to help iron out bugs, give input, etc.

Not just a game, Opensimulator is a SIMULATION same like Second Life. Its far more then just a game since in that Simulation can be played various games.

Markm you run your own regions in osgrid, you gonna be able to hook it to our grid to have economy, since i value you as a trusted person.

SL drove the price of BTC for a long time (30% of the exchanged BTC was in the past years driven by Linden Dollars until the price grew to the actual exchange rate) Do you imagine what it will do to DVC? grins.

SL made a huge mistake back in 2008 by not opening us the transgrid teleportation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v45EOma7wDo
According to me SL is, compared to the hypergrid today just a "kindergarten"


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 20, 2013, 02:03:55 AM
Wait, so you mean there is really going to be a game where DVC is going to be the currency used within it? If so, that's awesome! I'd love to hear when there's a private Alpha or something we can check out to help iron out bugs, give input, etc.

It is not really practical to use actual blockchain coins in games.

Rather, one would tend to use either things denominated in devcoins or, even better, things that can be exchanged for devcoins.

The "even better" part is because when some glitch in your game causes players to clone their stuff, such as can happen in so many games, it is not good for the survival of the game for the game operators to have to redeem all those cloned coins one for one with blockchain-based coins.

In essence the banking in almost all games is not reliable, for example in all the web based games I have looked at not one of them used transactions that either happen in full or get rolled back and retried, so any time a hosting provider reboots a web based game there is a chance the game was part way through a transaction, which will never thus be completed, so it will be out of balance.

For example suppose a player visits a moneychanger to change goldpieces into silverpieces. instead of using one atomic transaction in which the moneychanger gains gold and loses silver while the player gains silver while losing gold there would be four separate database operations, one for each currency to remove it from the one that is parting with it and one to add it to the one that is gaining it. if the machine goes down while that is happening, maybe the player paid the gold but didn't receive the silver, or maybe both parties had what they were parted with subtracted and neither has had anything added yet, or maybe even, in code that is particularly bad for the game operator, both parties got given what they were to get but did not get taken from them what they were to part with.

So no virtually no game can be trusted to account inventory and balances so you need to turn inventory and balances into actual hard blockchain-coins at an exchange/market so that if suddenly all items and currencies owned by all players got doubled it would not leave the game operator owing a doubled amount of hard coin to the players, instead it would simply lead to the market prices of the things that got doubled tending to fall somewhat as players sell off their duplicate copies of everything.

However one could put Chaumian blinded cash tokens, cheques, teller's cheques and such into games as items players can pick up, since such things if someone already cashed them they are worthless. The only way a player finding one of a many times cloned cheque or Chaumian cash token can know it is still valid is to try to cash it in at a server. (I am thinking Open Transactions style here for example) so those kinds of things could be used, in which each individual one a player has is a separate distinct serial-number kind of thing that either has or has not already been cashed-in by a previous owner.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 20, 2013, 02:16:35 AM
Quote
(I am thinking Open Transactions style here for example)

You are right, thats why OT plays a role in this effort, but objects (Prims) and regions will be secured by the new created namecoin clone by having each object in the chain (im sure you agree with me that this would definitly bloat the namecoin chain). My personal intention for this is not about selling stuff, but more to be able to pay artists with tips.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 20, 2013, 02:32:04 AM
How about setting it up a bit different then... with user accounts. Ex. you can deposit/withdraw a minimum amount, and then that goes into your inventory. As it's transferred from one person to another it would just stay in the game... kind of like Just-Dice (deposit on to their site, then you're no longer bloating the blockchain since you only add on to it when you deposit more or withdraw your winnings).

There are plenty of secure ways to ensure that player balances are kept properly... MMO's have been doing it for many years, :p. The main way they do it is by having a database that gives each item a uID.

Ex. there are four of the same longsword out there. While they are all named "longsword" and have the same stats, their uID (unique ID's) are 1, 2, 3, 4, so none of them could ever be cloned since there can only be one of each. As another is added to the game (drop or whatever) it gets the uID of 5.

I am very, very interested, if you guys are serious about pursuing this, in helping with game design documents and such. I think if it's done right it could be BIG.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 20, 2013, 02:42:33 AM
Quote
I am very, very interested, if you guys are serious about pursuing this, in helping with game design documents and such. I think if it's done right it could be BIG.
Yes each object has a unique UUID.
Not just me is working on this since quite a while, cause it has to be done right. You can help by getting DVB shares ;) And when the grid is finaly running with economy there gonna be even more to do.
By now i suggest to become familiar (you definitly gonna need quite a while to become familiar) with it by creating a osgrid account and figure what is possble there allready.
http://www.osgrid.org/


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 20, 2013, 02:43:30 AM
You are thinking of three dimensional representations/models of things as the things themselves, and there is value in such models so on the level where you need to reward artists for creating images of things that is useful.

I am more rooted in the old classic idea that our games use the most powerful graphics processor in the known universe... your own imagination!

Throughout history much of literature got illustrated much later, the authors of the actual scenarios that many artists over the centuries took a stab at creating their own artist's impression of didn't pay those artists, and once upon a time the greatness of the plotlines and characters and events and so on did not lie in how high a definition the movie of it was filmed in.

So I am currently thinking more along the roleplayer lines, where a roleplayer might say "and he generously offers a million coins of gold!" and presto, to illustrate, being in an OpenSimulator environment, a million coins of gold can appear, illustrating the story.

To me with my current approach, whether the player actually has a million devcoins or bitcoins or MUD gold or whatever with which to "back" that gratuitous illustration comes in later; if a player cannot illustrate such a storyline because the player failed to purchase an entire million copies of a no copy no modify gold coin so they could rez it a million times that is a problem, a glitch, because it would make it harder for players to sit there spinning their yarns doing their bragging or whatever. Albeit it it would also prevent a scammer from rezzing a million copies of a gold coin to try to convince someone he or she has that many actual gold coins somewhere or that many devcoins somewhere or whatever.

I am looking at three dimensional graphics as an output device that could be useful to provide certain kinds of readouts/views, not as being in itself the thing to generate views of.

I am more looking to take a statement from a novel or a MUD or other "in words" medium and illustrate it, than to try to figure out what some pattern of pixels is intended to convey. What is to be conveyed is known in advance, how a particular artist or screen or sculptor or whatever will image it is largely a matter of their taste and their ability to convey through such media the meaning that the plot or story or game is trying to have it convey.

So if it is the case that a goblin enters and hacks off the head of a rabbit, there is no "sorry, no artist has drawn a goblin or rabbit yet so that cannot happen"; rather it is more a case of "sorry your display does not currently seem able to adequately display what is happening, which is, that a goblin enters and hacks off the head of a rabbit"....

I guess I am conceptually thinking of two modes:

In one mode, players are using OpenSimulator, so they can rez anything in any quantity without regard to whether it corresponds to what is really the case in any/whatever game they might be bragging about or recounting yarns about while hanging out in OpenSim.

In the other mode, the players are playing a game, and one more more of the screens their computer has available to it can, thanks to OpenSim, illustrate various aspects of the game in 3D.

In both cases, the illustration is there to attempt to illustrate the story/facts. Illustrating something doesn't make it so, rather, what is actually so is actually so whether any illustration of it portrays it faithfully/understandably or not and whether or not any illustrations even vaguely resembling what is so have ever yet been created.

-MarkM-



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 20, 2013, 03:04:59 AM
How about setting it up a bit different then... with user accounts. Ex. you can deposit/withdraw a minimum amount, and then that goes into your inventory. As it's transferred from one person to another it would just stay in the game... kind of like Just-Dice (deposit on to their site, then you're no longer bloating the blockchain since you only add on to it when you deposit more or withdraw your winnings).

There are plenty of secure ways to ensure that player balances are kept properly... MMO's have been doing it for many years, :p. The main way they do it is by having a database that gives each item a uID.

Ex. there are four of the same longsword out there. While they are all named "longsword" and have the same stats, their uID (unique ID's) are 1, 2, 3, 4, so none of them could ever be cloned since there can only be one of each. As another is added to the game (drop or whatever) it gets the uID of 5.

I am very, very interested, if you guys are serious about pursuing this, in helping with game design documents and such. I think if it's done right it could be BIG.

Most free open source games do not maintain fully relational databases. heck even most supermarkets do not.

Rather, things get 'stacked' and abstracted.

The supermarket might know how many cans of beans are in each warehouse, but typically does not know - not maybe even particularly care - which can is in which warehouse. You could sneakily exchange any pair of cans of beans because any distinct ones that are known to be different, such as damaged cans of beans, would be a separate inventory item but again no fully relational. Most engines for fully relational databases died off because full relationalness was mostly of theoretical interest for relational calculus not often of practical use in the field.

So hey who knows maybe if you bought a copy of EVE online or World of Warcraft server source code you would find there is no such thing as ten swords, because ten swords is not a thing, there are ten things, each is a sword, and each has different fingerprints and scents and history so that a psychic could tell which of them once was used by so and so, which is stolen and from who, which one sold where to who from who when and so on.

But in free open source games I have not seen such accounting/inventory yet.

Oh wait, maybe a MUD comes close, if it does not implement stacking/bundling.

But once you stack or bundle there is typically no going back to which item in the stack was which individual item before the stacking or bundling; it is partly a way of saving data space by reducing many database rows all saying sword to one database row saying fifty swords, type of idea.

You could illustrate it in OpenSim by rezzing fifty models of swords, each with their own object-ID, or by rezzing one model depicting a bundle of swords and maybe using less than fifty prims.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 20, 2013, 11:58:40 AM
I am wondering why the number of receiver lines for round 25 keeps increasing.  The document now says 709 receiver lines, but I thought it had closed at 600 back when we hit the 97300 blocks.

Here is the file I am seeing:  http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 20, 2013, 03:27:23 PM
He offered up a bounty for someone to write a Namecoin-cloning tutorial.
thanks, the later posts on opensimulation/dvc made that a bit clearer.

Wiser - it did close, I think it's just until the final 25 receiver files are put together and agreed with amendments for a couple of writers:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg2726197#msg2726197
so in the meantime the script is pulling in round 25 and 26 as one total, and is increasing due to new articles, but round 25 will drop off.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 20, 2013, 06:24:55 PM
Wiser - it did close, I think it's just until the final 25 receiver files are put together and agreed with amendments for a couple of writers:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg2726197#msg2726197
so in the meantime the script is pulling in round 25 and 26 as one total, and is increasing due to new articles, but round 25 will drop off.

Thanks for the explanation, Weisoq.  I had read the message you referred to but not seen the edit.  I have a couple follow up questions:

1.  How long will the document be showing the combined total for round 25 and 26 before round 25 drops off?  How long is typical for the closed round and the new round to be combined? 

2.  How typical is it to make adjustments after a round is closed?  I mainly want to know what to expect.  I had an earnings goal for round 25 which I thought I had reached (I was watching the progress of how shares were accumulating and making sure my writing kept pace so I could earn what my goal was).  Only when those 68 shares were added, that caused me to not make my goal.  This is not a complaint (I still did quite well), just a desire to know if this is something I should expect in future rounds.  Because if it is, then this next round I will simply plan to overshoot my goal so as to account for these adjustments.  Hope this makes sense, and thanks in advance for your patience with answering my questions :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: emfox on July 21, 2013, 04:50:17 AM
I am wondering why the number of receiver lines for round 25 keeps increasing.  The document now says 709 receiver lines, but I thought it had closed at 600 back when we hit the 97300 blocks.

Here is the file I am seeing:  http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt

that's a bug, I should manually adjust the script every round but haven't. round 25 is indeed ended. the file would be all right next morning.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: 5Dzz on July 21, 2013, 03:48:57 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.


I like these idea's a lot.   :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 21, 2013, 08:58:01 PM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.


I like these idea's a lot.   :)
How to Hypergrid Between Virtual Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvHGCUyF4uw
Its not just a game, its a simulation, a platform for all kind of games.
The idea is to combine the open and decentralized platfom called hypergrid with the cryptochain concept.
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 22, 2013, 03:02:33 AM
Wiser - it did close, I think it's just until the final 25 receiver files are put together and agreed with amendments for a couple of writers:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg2726197#msg2726197
so in the meantime the script is pulling in round 25 and 26 as one total, and is increasing due to new articles, but round 25 will drop off.

Thanks for the explanation, Weisoq.  I had read the message you referred to but not seen the edit.  I have a couple follow up questions:

1.  How long will the document be showing the combined total for round 25 and 26 before round 25 drops off?  How long is typical for the closed round and the new round to be combined? 

2.  How typical is it to make adjustments after a round is closed?  I mainly want to know what to expect.  I had an earnings goal for round 25 which I thought I had reached (I was watching the progress of how shares were accumulating and making sure my writing kept pace so I could earn what my goal was).  Only when those 68 shares were added, that caused me to not make my goal.  This is not a complaint (I still did quite well), just a desire to know if this is something I should expect in future rounds.  Because if it is, then this next round I will simply plan to overshoot my goal so as to account for these adjustments.  Hope this makes sense, and thanks in advance for your patience with answering my questions :)

What's your goal?  I'm thinking about making devtome goals myself!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 22, 2013, 03:03:06 AM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.


I like these idea's a lot.   :)

Devcoin minecraft server?


Title: Troll Blocking
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 22, 2013, 06:24:35 AM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part. This would redouble the bounties for the forum, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas), the pool:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

and Emfox's link faucet upgrade. Any objections?

There are no current objections, so the bounties have been redoubled. Forum email is now 24 shares plus 6 million devcoins, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) is now 96 shares, and the pool is now 64 shares:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

The Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) bounty may be awarded soon:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105506.msg2477344#msg2477344

I suggest another forum bounty, for a Simple Machines Forum (SMF) which would also get use of the coinzen domain name. This would be for adding a field to moderated threads to add moderators, or ban people on the Original Poster's ignore list or a troll field. Also, moderation would be the default and the Original Poster would have to deselect the moderation checkbox to have an open forum. Right now with the Aegis account a few people can moderate the thread, but it would be more convenient if the Original Poster could simply add moderators, rather than have to log in as Aegis, then log in again as someone else to post. Also, being able to ban trolls would be easier than going through the thread and deleting troll posts manually.

This would be 24 shares plus 6 million devcoins for adding moderators. Also 24 shares plus 6 million for banning trolls. Any objections?
 


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 22, 2013, 07:20:00 AM
I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

That is awesome! I'd love it if we could get a game together that works with DVC. That could definitely bring some value to the coins.


I like these idea's a lot.   :)
How to Hypergrid Between Virtual Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvHGCUyF4uw
Its not just a game, its a simulation, a platform for all kind of games.
The idea is to combine the open and decentralized platfom called hypergrid with the cryptochain concept.
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/

I was trying to come up with new ideas and I came up with another as well: a F2P MMORPG where everything is paid for using DevCoins. Much like the games that are already out, but instead of using cash to buy tokens for the cash shop, you would use DevCoins to buy the tokens (or just flat out use DevCoins altogether).

This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 22, 2013, 07:51:58 PM
I was trying to come up with new ideas and I came up with another as well: a F2P MMORPG where everything is paid for using DevCoins. Much like the games that are already out, but instead of using cash to buy tokens for the cash shop, you would use DevCoins to buy the tokens (or just flat out use DevCoins altogether).

This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though.

Go read the game development forum sites to get background on the idea of creating a MMPRPG.

Every idiot who knows nothing suggests it, go read/study though like none of them bother to do.

What does F2P mean, by the way?

While you are on insanely impractical notions, maybe build an entire new operating system from scratch? It doesn't need all the music and images and crap that an MMORPG does so you can probably do that much much easier, and you can build coins right into the operating-system.

Maybe reading the thread would have been polite too, so you would have known that actually despite how inansely impractical it is to try to build an MMPRPG nonetheless people are already hard at work on many many many littie pieces that such a thing would need, so that in however many years it takes to get all those pieces done the idea of creating an MMORPG won't seem so insane because we will actually have all the pieces already by then.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 22, 2013, 11:15:14 PM
Yeah!  There's a new devcoin information site made by THE GOAT MASTER!  Check it out here: http://devcoin.info.se/

Tell me what you think!  I hope you like it!  ;D


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 22, 2013, 11:24:33 PM
Yeah!  There's a new devcoin information site made by THE GOAT MASTER!  Check it out here: http://devcoin.info.se/

Tell me what you think!  I hope you like it!  ;D

Always times out while trying to load for me, =S


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 22, 2013, 11:26:21 PM
Yeah!  There's a new devcoin information site made by THE GOAT MASTER!  Check it out here: http://devcoin.info.se/

Tell me what you think!  I hope you like it!  ;D

Always times out while trying to load for me, =S

thats weird, sorry.  try the full url: http://devurl.site90.com/index.html
 :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 23, 2013, 02:17:26 AM
I was trying to come up with new ideas and I came up with another as well: a F2P MMORPG where everything is paid for using DevCoins. Much like the games that are already out, but instead of using cash to buy tokens for the cash shop, you would use DevCoins to buy the tokens (or just flat out use DevCoins altogether).

This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though.

Go read the game development forum sites to get background on the idea of creating a MMPRPG.

Every idiot who knows nothing suggests it, go read/study though like none of them bother to do.

What does F2P mean, by the way?

While you are on insanely impractical notions, maybe build an entire new operating system from scratch? It doesn't need all the music and images and crap that an MMORPG does so you can probably do that much much easier, and you can build coins right into the operating-system.

Maybe reading the thread would have been polite too, so you would have known that actually despite how inansely impractical it is to try to build an MMPRPG nonetheless people are already hard at work on many many many littie pieces that such a thing would need, so that in however many years it takes to get all those pieces done the idea of creating an MMORPG won't seem so insane because we will actually have all the pieces already by then.

-MarkM-


I'm glad you know so much.  That is a very harsh post, considering what Ranlo shared was a brainstorm.  

If people here are serious about wanting Devcoin (or any cryptocoin) to go mainstream, I think it would accomplish way more to take the attitude here that no question or idea is a stupid one.  People are getting interested and getting involved with varying levels of prior knowledge and experience (and ignorance!), and are not going to feel welcome if they are treated like idiots just for mentioning something.  I personally welcome education so if I'm obviously ignorant about something, I welcome a polite and understandable explanation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  Those who know more, please do educate, but do so kindly.  Thank you.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 23, 2013, 02:26:57 AM
I was trying to come up with new ideas and I came up with another as well: a F2P MMORPG where everything is paid for using DevCoins. Much like the games that are already out, but instead of using cash to buy tokens for the cash shop, you would use DevCoins to buy the tokens (or just flat out use DevCoins altogether).

This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though.

Go read the game development forum sites to get background on the idea of creating a MMPRPG.

Every idiot who knows nothing suggests it, go read/study though like none of them bother to do.

What does F2P mean, by the way?

While you are on insanely impractical notions, maybe build an entire new operating system from scratch? It doesn't need all the music and images and crap that an MMORPG does so you can probably do that much much easier, and you can build coins right into the operating-system.

Maybe reading the thread would have been polite too, so you would have known that actually despite how inansely impractical it is to try to build an MMPRPG nonetheless people are already hard at work on many many many littie pieces that such a thing would need, so that in however many years it takes to get all those pieces done the idea of creating an MMORPG won't seem so insane because we will actually have all the pieces already by then.

-MarkM-


I'm glad you know so much.  That is a very harsh post, considering what Ranlo shared was a brainstorm. 

If people here are serious about wanting Devcoin (of any cryptocoin) to go mainstream, I think it would accomplish way more to take the attitude here that no question or idea is a stupid one.  People are getting interested and getting involved with varying levels of prior knowledge and experience (and ignorance!), and are not going to feel welcome if they are treated like idiots just for mentioning something.  I personally welcome education so if I'm obviously ignorant about something, I welcome a polite and understandable explanation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  Those who know more, please do educate, but do so kindly.  Thank you.

What makes matters worse is he clearly didn't read my post... if he did he would have seen this part:

"This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though."


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 23, 2013, 03:44:08 AM
Well maybe we should somehow/somewhere make it clearer then how much of what is already being done all aims toward eventually having all the parts in hand to be able to hopefully all together act as a massively multiplayer game or entire collection of multiplayer games all integrated one way or another so that overall they all function as parts in a larger metagame.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 23, 2013, 03:56:07 AM
Well maybe we should somehow/somewhere make it clearer then how much of what is already being done all aims toward eventually having all the parts in hand to be able to hopefully all together act as a massively multiplayer game or entire collection of multiplayer games all integrated one way or another so that overall they all function as parts in a larger metagame.

-MarkM-


Or a go-to place for everything that people are doing for DevCoin in general. Reading through the thread I've seen tons of things people hint at but no real information on how you can get involved, what needs to be done for each project, the status of each project, etc. I'm sure a lot of us could help out with many of these projects if we knew what was needed and what's even going on.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 23, 2013, 04:04:12 AM
Maybe devtome's front page could be re-arranged to make it easier for people who land on it to branch out from there to various different centres of focus or something?

Once upon a time just the recent new pages list was so full of game pages it was pretty hard to miss the fact that a whole lot of it was about games or a game and maybe even to catch on to the idea of a metagame in which any/all games could fit as things that could equally well be viewed/played as being inside the game as being outside it.

Even bitcoin itself is part of the game, having been developed by the hacker civilisation supposedly, who supposedly are who the Martians got the blockchain technology from to create their own currency, Martian BotCoins. Since DeVCoin is a relative latecomer, it has not yet chosen a nation/civilisation within the game to which it is to be attributed. Maybe it is more a grass roots thing various people in various civilisations use or maybe because the Hacker nation is considered mythical maybe it is what various wannabe-Hackers on various worlds came up with to finance their attempt at creating an actual Hacker Nation since the one the Martians refer to seems not to be particularly existent...

-MarkM-


Title: Re: Troll Blocking
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 23, 2013, 03:25:51 PM
I suggest redoubling the bounties which have not been awarded even in part. This would redouble the bounties for the forum, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas), the pool:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

and Emfox's link faucet upgrade. Any objections?

There are no current objections, so the bounties have been redoubled. Forum email is now 24 shares plus 6 million devcoins, the Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) is now 96 shares, and the pool is now 64 shares:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

The Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) bounty may be awarded soon:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105506.msg2477344#msg2477344

I suggest another forum bounty, which would also get use of the coinzen domain name. This would be for adding a field to moderated threads to add moderators or ban people. Right now with the Aegis account a few people can moderate the thread, but it would be more convenient if the Original Poster could simply add moderators, rather than have to log in as Aegis, then log in again as someone else to post. Also, being able to ban trolls would be easier than going through the thread and deleting troll posts manually.

This would be 24 shares plus 6 million devcoins for adding moderators. Also 24 shares plus 6 million for banning trolls. Any objections?
 

I fail to see how this differs from devcointalk.org I have groups for devtome writers and devtome admins and they can moderate the whole forum if I tick one box to allow them the rights to.  Ban users, remove posts moderate any post etc.  Unless you maen something different I would feel like the bounty is designed for a website you have in mind (coinzen) as opposed to being open to us all.

Or are you after the OP of one thread to be able to set a moderator on just the thread they start? not moderators site wide?? as I fail to see how this would help stop troll and spam on other threads as no moderators would be set, except the site wide moderators.

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: Troll Blocking
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 23, 2013, 06:30:20 PM
..
Unless you maen something different I would feel like the bounty is designed for a website you have in mind (coinzen) as opposed to being open to us all.

It would be first on coinzen, but the code would be open source and any other forum could use it.

Quote
Or are you after the OP of one thread to be able to set a moderator on just the thread they start? not moderators site wide??

Yes.

Quote
as I fail to see how this would help stop troll and spam on other threads as no moderators would be set, except the site wide moderators.

It would stop the trolling quickly on that thread, even if the moderators are in general busy. Moderators get many complaints and little pay, so after a while they respond slowly or not at all. This way posters can keep a thread completely clean without having to wait for a moderator.

Also some trolls would give up on the site if they know that they'll be shut down quickly, which would lower the workload of the moderators, giving them more time to handle the site wide trolls.


Title: Re: Troll Blocking
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 23, 2013, 09:11:39 PM
..
Unless you maen something different I would feel like the bounty is designed for a website you have in mind (coinzen) as opposed to being open to us all.

It would be first on coinzen, but the code would be open source and any other forum could use it.
So it is already coded up and set to be released on coinzen then? just needs to be deployed? I'll have a look and see if I can do that on SMF structure otherwise or would possibly consider running that code on devcointalk instead/

Quote
Quote
Or are you after the OP of one thread to be able to set a moderator on just the thread they start? not moderators site wide??
Yes.
Quote
as I fail to see how this would help stop troll and spam on other threads as no moderators would be set, except the site wide moderators.

It would stop the trolling quickly on that thread, even if the moderators are in general busy. Moderators get many complaints and little pay, so after a while they respond slowly or not at all. This way posters can keep a thread completely clean without having to wait for a moderator.

Also some trolls would give up on the site if they know that they'll be shut down quickly, which would lower the workload of the moderators, giving them more time to handle the site wide trolls.

Ok yes I can see you are trying to reduce the workload for forum admins and moderators and let the posters of the threads take responsibility of the site through their posts. So yeah again i'll look to see if this can be implemented on SMF as i got a few SMF forum sites running now and that would probably help out the admins on those sites to :)

I think the actual logistics should be more of only a person with say more than 5 posts can be a moderator on a thread... as the trolls and spam always finds a way through and you kinda want to vet the users on the forum but not limit the opinions of users with that so called "free speech" and all

Thanks for clarifying for me the requirements

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: Troll Blocking
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 23, 2013, 10:57:04 PM
..
So it is already coded up and set to be released on coinzen then? just needs to be deployed? I'll have a look and see if I can do that on SMF structure otherwise or would possibly consider running that code on devcointalk instead/

No. The bounty is for someone to code it, preferably for SMF. I assumed the same person who coded it would put up coinzen, but if one person codes it and another makes the forum, the bounty would be split between them.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 23, 2013, 11:54:43 PM
Yeah!  There's a new devcoin information site made by THE GOAT MASTER!  Check it out here: http://devcoin.info.se/

Tell me what you think!  I hope you like it!  ;D

Hey that's a good looking webpage Goat Master. Not baa-aaa-aaad at all.

hahahah!  no ba-aaa-aad at all.


Title: TRADING CARD GAME! :D
Post by: The Goat Master on July 24, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
..
So it is already coded up and set to be released on coinzen then? just needs to be deployed? I'll have a look and see if I can do that on SMF structure otherwise or would possibly consider running that code on devcointalk instead/

No. The bounty is for someone to code it, preferably for SMF. I assumed the same person who coded it would put up coinzen, but if one person codes it and another makes the forum, the bounty would be split between them.


Is there still a bounty for a trading card game?  it would be a big undertaking, but not as big with crowdsourcing from the devcoin community.  We could make use of 3d printers too (first 3d trading cards would gain big publicity for devcoin) ;D

possible names:
devimon, devgimon?


Title: Re: TRADING CARD GAME! :D
Post by: worldinacoin on July 24, 2013, 03:40:40 AM
..
So it is already coded up and set to be released on coinzen then? just needs to be deployed? I'll have a look and see if I can do that on SMF structure otherwise or would possibly consider running that code on devcointalk instead/

No. The bounty is for someone to code it, preferably for SMF. I assumed the same person who coded it would put up coinzen, but if one person codes it and another makes the forum, the bounty would be split between them.


Is there still a bounty for a trading card game?  it would be a big undertaking, but not as big with crowdsourcing from the devcoin community.  We could make use of 3d printers too (first 3d trading cards would gain big publicity for devcoin) ;D

possible names:
devimon, devgimon?

Trading card will be fun, but will Pokemon take offense at our *mon? :) .  But if we can evolve a story line and start a TGC it will be a very profitable venture which will surely push up our coin much faster than even Bitcoin, which I feel seems to be getting stagnant after the initial reporting news.   But we have to look out for Ripple, they haven't got out of closed Beta yet and can be formidable.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 24, 2013, 04:30:55 AM
Well maybe we should somehow/somewhere make it clearer then how much of what is already being done all aims toward eventually having all the parts in hand to be able to hopefully all together act as a massively multiplayer game or entire collection of multiplayer games all integrated one way or another so that overall they all function as parts in a larger metagame.

-MarkM-


Or a go-to place for everything that people are doing for DevCoin in general. Reading through the thread I've seen tons of things people hint at but no real information on how you can get involved, what needs to be done for each project, the status of each project, etc. I'm sure a lot of us could help out with many of these projects if we knew what was needed and what's even going on.

I don't think that would be too hard to do, actually.  One could request/require that anyone working on a project that is covered by a bounty submit periodic (weekly most likely) progress reports about what is going on.  The reports should be concise, answer some specific questions, and then get added to a project's "progress blog."  One page could contain hotlinks to all the projects and their progress blogs.  People working on projects which aren't specifically covered by a bounty could be invited to also submit progress reports (maybe have some reward for doing so?).  Projects could be sorted by category, so all the gaming stuff could be grouped together and people who know and care about it can easily access it.  When someone new starts talking about how great it would be if this project happened (and it's already being worked on) it's a simple matter to refer that person to the place where all the information on that project is posted.  I would think something like this could be set up on the Devtome, but I'm not a coder or programmer so I could be wrong about that. 

If the Devcoin "powers that be" decide to run with this idea (or some modification), then one thing I would add is that the progress reports be written so that they can be understood by a nontechnical person (think potential investor).  They should be a summary, not a detailed report, and they can link to longer reports with more technical information so that those who want to learn more very easily can. 



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 24, 2013, 05:17:10 AM
Because an MMORPG would be massively expensive to create, development has pretty much inevitably always come back around to finances, and that is why we find things like the Open Transactions system coming to the foreground. In games like Freeciv the improvements players can build in their cities include markets, banks and stock exchanges. Open Transactions seems to be potentially useable for representing/simularign such things, and it touches upon finance, so  we end up with Open Transactions development going on because hopefully things like markets, banks and stock exchanges could be aspects of games in which games can intersect with finance and thus maybe find some means of financing games.

Eventually hopefully we could know within some individual character run aroud in sewers killing rats level of combat/adventure game what exactly would be involved if a player racked up enough wealth selling rat pelts to think about building a martket or a bank or a stck exchange. The much larger scale, based on Freeciv, that most players running around doing hand to hand combat with individual monsters probably tend not to care about will be covered for us by the much higher level larger scale Freeciv scale that manages an entire world at a time for us.

we would thus have built into the game an in-game "what it would take" to deploy an Open Transactions server representing a market, bank or stock exchange built in a specific game-year in a specific city on a specific planet.

So far of course all we have is the one Open Transactions server having to handle/represent all the business of all the cities of all the planets in the entire Galactic Milieu, but that again is of course due to finance/economics. How is even just that one Open Transactions server to pay for itself? Because obviously we cannot scale up to deploying one such server per each of the hundreds of cities that have a market, bank or stock exchange on each of the many planets of the Milieu if we cannot establish how such a server can finance itself. If however we can develop a business-model by which any individual server can finance itself then scaling up to tens or hundreds or thousands of servers is a lot more economically feasible, depending mostly on market depth as in how many cities' players actually choose to build a market, bank or stock exchange in their city or how many that do so choose to enable the detailed level of representation of such a city-improvement that an Open Transactions server can serve as.

So many problems end up coming down to economics/finance that I guess it should not be surprising that aspects of systems that touch upon finance keep ending up taking priority, since until finances are solved little else can be done other than by such volunteer labour as might from time top time choose to devote itself to some aspect of things.

Target audiences such as the denizens of bitcointalk forums do not even seem interested in all the MMORPG parts that many MMORPG players are looking forward to, they actually probably prefer dealing abstractly with stocks and shares and currencies without needing some "character" to walk past potential assassins or pickpockets to enter some "bank" building in order to deal with such things; they probably prefer to not have to deal with the city, the planet, the rats in the gutters and sewers, the pickpockets and muggers and bank-robbers, and just very abstractly buy and sell commodities, currencies stocks and shares on a website... Which is good, because it saves a lot of expense of providing graphic representations and personal combat systems and so on, allowing us to go direct to the financing before we even have the imagery and music and sound effects and all that stuff because all that stuff is used for aspects of the game that this target audience does not want to deal with anyway. Hopefully a win-win! :)

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 24, 2013, 05:58:48 AM
Because an MMORPG would be massively expensive to create, development has pretty much inevitably always come back around to finances, and that is why we find things like the Open Transactions system coming to the foreground. In games like Freeciv the improvements players can build in their cities include markets, banks and stock exchanges. Open Transactions seems to be potentially useable for representing/simularign such things, and it touches upon finance, so  we end up with Open Transactions development going on because hopefully things like markets, banks and stock exchanges could be aspects of games in which games can intersect with finance and thus maybe find some means of financing games.

Eventually hopefully we could know within some individual character run aroud in sewers killing rats level of combat/adventure game what exactly would be involved if a player racked up enough wealth selling rat pelts to think about building a martket or a bank or a stck exchange. The much larger scale, based on Freeciv, that most players running around doing hand to hand combat with individual monsters probably tend not to care about will be covered for us by the much higher level larger scale Freeciv scale that manages an entire world at a time for us.

we would thus have built into the game an in-game "what it would take" to deploy an Open Transactions server representing a market, bank or stock exchange built in a specific game-year in a specific city on a specific planet.

So far of course all we have is the one Open Transactions server having to handle/represent all the business of all the cities of all the planets in the entire Galactic Milieu, but that again is of course due to finance/economics. How is even just that one Open Transactions server to pay for itself? Because obviously we cannot scale up to deploying one such server per each of the hundreds of cities that have a market, bank or stock exchange on each of the many planets of the Milieu if we cannot establish how such a server can finance itself. If however we can develop a business-model by which any individual server can finance itself then scaling up to tens or hundreds or thousands of servers is a lot more economically feasible, depending mostly on market depth as in how many cities' players actually choose to build a market, bank or stock exchange in their city or how many that do so choose to enable the detailed level of representation of such a city-improvement that an Open Transactions server can serve as.

So many problems end up coming down to economics/finance that I guess it should not be surprising that aspects of systems that touch upon finance keep ending up taking priority, since until finances are solved little else can be done other than by such volunteer labour as might from time top time choose to devote itself to some aspect of things.

Target audiences such as the denizens of bitcointalk forums do not even seem interested in all the MMORPG parts that many MMORPG players are looking forward to, they actually probably prefer dealing abstractly with stocks and shares and currencies without needing some "character" to walk past potential assassins or pickpockets to enter some "bank" building in order to deal with such things; they probably prefer to not have to deal with the city, the planet, the rats in the gutters and sewers, the pickpockets and muggers and bank-robbers, and just very abstractly buy and sell commodities, currencies stocks and shares on a website... Which is good, because it saves a lot of expense of providing graphic representations and personal combat systems and so on, allowing us to go direct to the financing before we even have the imagery and music and sound effects and all that stuff because all that stuff is used for aspects of the game that this target audience does not want to deal with anyway. Hopefully a win-win! :)

-MarkM-


Most game development firms have, say 100 members. Two or three of them are programmers; the rest deal with graphics. There are TONS of free graphics we could use. And I mean tons. More than you could ever fit in a game, with thousands more released daily. Why don't other games do that? Because they are AAA titles and design their own stuff in-house. Saying the games take a long time to create is relative; a long time compared to what? RuneScape is a MMORPG created by a single person. He didn't even outsource or take free art. There are other MMO's by single people as well.

Throwing out ideas like this is a good thing. The more ideas we have, the more we can refine things.

In any case, we don't even know what people are truly working on for our goals or what their progress is/what they need to finish. I hear about things like Open Transactions and such, but never about where they are now, what is left to do, what they could use help with completing, how this is going to tie into DVC and what we can do to start preparing for it now, etc.


Title: Re: TRADING CARD GAME! :D
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 24, 2013, 06:46:20 AM
..
Is there still a bounty for a trading card game?  it would be a big undertaking, but not as big with crowdsourcing from the devcoin community.  We could make use of 3d printers too (first 3d trading cards would gain big publicity for devcoin) ;D

After looking at the Open Source Card Game WTactics CCG:
http://wtactics.org/

I see that it takes much longer to develop than I expected, so there won't be a direct bounty since we can't afford to pay for an entire game. However, we can pay for a limited amount of developers, so the first five people developing that game can apply to Metazilla to go on the devcoin share list and be paid that way. If there is more interest in the game and no objections, then we'll let more people go on the share list.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 24, 2013, 07:15:10 AM
Most game development firms have, say 100 members. Two or three of them are programmers; the rest deal with graphics. There are TONS of free graphics we could use. And I mean tons. More than you could ever fit in a game, with thousands more released daily. Why don't other games do that? Because they are AAA titles and design their own stuff in-house. Saying the games take a long time to create is relative; a long time compared to what? RuneScape is a MMORPG created by a single person. He didn't even outsource or take free art. There are other MMO's by single people as well.

Throwing out ideas like this is a good thing. The more ideas we have, the more we can refine things.

In any case, we don't even know what people are truly working on for our goals or what their progress is/what they need to finish. I hear about things like Open Transactions and such, but never about where they are now, what is left to do, what they could use help with completing, how this is going to tie into DVC and what we can do to start preparing for it now, etc.

OpenSimulator is largely about the graphics, basically if we keep importing into OpenSimulator any and all free graphics/models we can, we will have both a collection of useable stuff and a venue in which we can walk around them look at them set them up in context with one-another develop animations to make them perform various actions it would be useful to have them perform and so on.

Yeah there are probably lots of free graphics out there, but even just walking around them looking up and down at them turning them around and so on, together, that is, multi-user, not each alone using a modeler on their own machine, is much easer inside an actual environment like OpenSim that is made for doing that kind of thing. It seems like a reasonable venue for artists to work on such stuff and provide showcases of such stuff and group such stuff together into themes, cultures, nations, factions and so on.

That card game Unthinkingbit mentioned seems to use not only some graphics either by same artists as Battle for Wesnoth or directly from Battle for Wesnoth, but even some units from Battle for Wesnoth. It would be useful to get that stuff converted into three dimensional models too, as Battle for Wesnoth has already done a vast amount of work on game-balance of the various factions, precise adjustments to details of the scores and chances and abilities of each unit in a faction to balance faction against faction and stuff like that. Just even able to walk into a full scale Battle for Wesnoth representation in three dimansions using Open Simulator would be a big step forward. The ultimate target goal of course being holodecks, though those are quite a distance away they are kind of the star to shoot for in the sense of choosing a far away goal you might not reach but which serves as guide all along the way of however far you do get toward it.

Also very useful would be for each unit in Freeciv, have some kind of representation in Battle for Wesnoth terms. Maybe not as simple has having a Phalanx be nothing but spearmen, though maybe for early units such as phalanx that might suffice. But units such as a Legion might be an entire faction in terms of the variety of units that can be part of it.

That will help a lot toward being able to zoom in on a world whose Freeciv scale shows a legion on a certain tile, to represent it in Battle for Wesnoth scale so players could if they choose fight out a battle on that scale or run an individual-characters adventure on that scale or even just so a novelist can generate illustrations for their novel autmatically using the software...

I started somewhat on trying to do Battle for Wesnoth units suitable for representing Freeciv activities zoomed in on, for example the Wesnoth campaign that zooms in on the activities of the English and Cornish on the planet known as E29 involved creating units to represent the Cornish marines and Captain Bligh and so on. But so much more remains to be done in order to have all the units at one's fingertips to write Battle for Wesnoth adventures set on Freeciv worlds.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 24, 2013, 07:18:36 AM
Looking at OpenSimulator, I'm liking it more and more. Do we have a project started on it already? Or is it something we're just looking at doing?

Edit: I have tons of ideas on how it could be used, :p.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 24, 2013, 07:21:07 AM
Looking at OpenSimulator, I'm liking it more and more. Do we have a project started on it already? Or is it something we're just looking at doing?

Edit: I have tons of ideas on how it could be used, :p.

I have some regions running on OSgrid. A good reason for preferring OSgrid is we are after free open source stuff, not stuff where each and every copy of a thing has to be bought from an artist or vendor. OSgrid is about Open Source so seemed the logical grid to use.

Until/unless we create a grid, but is that really needed - or even appropriate - when part of open source ought to be to try to co-operate with other open source projects?

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 24, 2013, 08:44:50 AM
Looking at OpenSimulator, I'm liking it more and more. Do we have a project started on it already? Or is it something we're just looking at doing?

Edit: I have tons of ideas on how it could be used, :p.

I have some regions running on OSgrid. A good reason for preferring OSgrid is we are after free open source stuff, not stuff where each and every copy of a thing has to be bought from an artist or vendor. OSgrid is about Open Source so seemed the logical grid to use.

Until/unless we create a grid, but is that really needed - or even appropriate - when part of open source ought to be to try to co-operate with other open source projects?

-MarkM-


Well, my idea was that using the software, due to the scripting, things like in-game casinos, other games, stores, etc. could all be brought in... but we need to know where to start and get people organized somehow to start building these things. We could have arcades and such.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 25, 2013, 12:21:40 AM
Looking at OpenSimulator, I'm liking it more and more. Do we have a project started on it already? Or is it something we're just looking at doing?

Edit: I have tons of ideas on how it could be used, :p.

I have some regions running on OSgrid. A good reason for preferring OSgrid is we are after free open source stuff, not stuff where each and every copy of a thing has to be bought from an artist or vendor. OSgrid is about Open Source so seemed the logical grid to use.

Until/unless we create a grid, but is that really needed - or even appropriate - when part of open source ought to be to try to co-operate with other open source projects?

-MarkM-


Well, my idea was that using the software, due to the scripting, things like in-game casinos, other games, stores, etc. could all be brought in... but we need to know where to start and get people organized somehow to start building these things. We could have arcades and such.
VGA made some nice roulette, poker and blackjack table, in SL allready, they are scripted by using LSL.
https://d3qcduphvv2yxi.cloudfront.net/assets/4132138/view_large/VGA-Blackjack-(Red-Plush-theme).jpg?1313992574
To run a region without a economy is not the hard part, and is done since years, to secure it for economic purposes is the bigger challange :)
Imagine each "game" that has economy needs to have a proof of work somehow, one way is by centralized control, the other is by a open and decentralized system.
Namecoin clones are ideal for this purpose and would make much sense for the scripters.
Besides that, there are Builders, Designers, Dancers, Singers and Artists needed, guys who run regions just can provide a trusted enviroment.
Our GRID will open soon with regions that are driven by now with 6 x 3ghz processors and 8GB of ram, enough power to realize yourself in a secured enviroment.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 01:02:25 AM
Looking at OpenSimulator, I'm liking it more and more. Do we have a project started on it already? Or is it something we're just looking at doing?

Edit: I have tons of ideas on how it could be used, :p.

I have some regions running on OSgrid. A good reason for preferring OSgrid is we are after free open source stuff, not stuff where each and every copy of a thing has to be bought from an artist or vendor. OSgrid is about Open Source so seemed the logical grid to use.

Until/unless we create a grid, but is that really needed - or even appropriate - when part of open source ought to be to try to co-operate with other open source projects?

-MarkM-


Well, my idea was that using the software, due to the scripting, things like in-game casinos, other games, stores, etc. could all be brought in... but we need to know where to start and get people organized somehow to start building these things. We could have arcades and such.
VGA made some nice roulette, poker and blackjack table, in SL allready, they are scripted by using LSL.
https://d3qcduphvv2yxi.cloudfront.net/assets/4132138/view_large/VGA-Blackjack-(Red-Plush-theme).jpg?1313992574
To run a region without a economy is not the hard part, and is done since years, to secure it for economic purposes is the bigger challange :)
Imagine each "game" that has economy needs to have a proof of work somehow, one way is by centralized control, the other is by a open and decentralized system.
Namecoin clones are ideal for this purpose and would make much sense for the scripters.
Besides that, there are Builders, Designers, Dancers, Singers and Artists needed, guys who run regions just can provide a trusted enviroment.
Our GRID will open soon with regions that are driven by now with 6 x 3ghz processors and 8GB of ram, enough power to realize yourself in a secured enviroment.


Awesome news! I look forward to future updates, :).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 25, 2013, 08:35:50 AM
Looking at OpenSimulator, I'm liking it more and more. Do we have a project started on it already? Or is it something we're just looking at doing?

Edit: I have tons of ideas on how it could be used, :p.

I have some regions running on OSgrid. A good reason for preferring OSgrid is we are after free open source stuff, not stuff where each and every copy of a thing has to be bought from an artist or vendor. OSgrid is about Open Source so seemed the logical grid to use.

Until/unless we create a grid, but is that really needed - or even appropriate - when part of open source ought to be to try to co-operate with other open source projects?

-MarkM-



I totaly agree that osgrid has to stay free without a kind of economy.

But you cant force artists to publish there work for free, and the missing economy in most of the actual grids is the main reason why artists from SL prefer to stay there, cause they have a kind of centralized economy. As soon there is a open decentralized  way to secure the Hypergrid this will change.
Devcoin is a aweseome concept, and you guys are the first who got generation shares for your writing work. The actual exchange rates dont reflect the real value of it, so its not realy wise to dump the coins at this moment to the market.

Everyone who has devcoins will be soon able to drive the cultural development with Devcoin in 3d Realms as generous donor. When you just dump it for bitcoin, you probably gonna miss that personal expirience.

Please honor that Devcoin drives the economic development of 3d realms allready! Its not a cooincidence that the biggest DVC Stock DVB is behind this development. Just a hint: it was a 3d reams developer that brought to you the devcoin module for drupal..


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 25, 2013, 08:49:35 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?

Devcoin is here to stay.
The hasing difficulty is now: 3010755.66503920
If you just look at the exchange rate, its understandable that you have that impression.

I just see the awesome and generous opportunity that is provided from Unthinkingbit and the Devcoin Team to the Crypto Comunity.

We all can be gratefull for this!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 25, 2013, 08:50:16 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?

People are panic dumping - they see the price fall and they sell in case it falls further. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

At some point investors will come in who think it is a bargain.

The price is too low given that Devcoin owns some assets - such as Devtome. The sooner it is monetised the better - that way fiat can be converted to BTC which can be converted to DVC which can be added to the distribution pool.

It would be nice if Devcoin could accrue other assets. Then we can market it as an asset backed coin.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 09:03:21 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?

People are panic dumping - they see the price fall and they sell in case it falls further. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

At some point investors will come in who think it is a bargain.

The price is too low given that Devcoin owns some assets - such as Devtome. The sooner it is monetised the better - that way fiat can be converted to BTC which can be converted to DVC which can be added to the distribution pool.

It would be nice if Devcoin could accrue other assets. Then we can market it as an asset backed coin.

Yeah, this would be awesome. We need more things to back up the coin...

Also, I wish I had dumped all mine at the 70 mark into that massive buy wall. Then I would have over 55% more coins now by rebuying, :(.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 25, 2013, 09:06:16 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 25, 2013, 09:11:50 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?

People are panic dumping - they see the price fall and they sell in case it falls further. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

At some point investors will come in who think it is a bargain.

The price is too low given that Devcoin owns some assets - such as Devtome. The sooner it is monetised the better - that way fiat can be converted to BTC which can be converted to DVC which can be added to the distribution pool.

It would be nice if Devcoin could accrue other assets. Then we can market it as an asset backed coin.

Yeah, this would be awesome. We need more things to back up the coin...



I wish we could buy some land. You know that project that was announced in the San Diego bitcoin conference, where they were going to do a deal with Nicaragua or some such place for a free-trade zone. It would be awesome if Devcoin could accrue some offices in the zone which we could then rent out.

To finance it we can just put a freeze on payouts from say round 28 to round 108, to accrue enough coins to invest. Of course that means the dumping of coins will stop so the value would rise. We could monetise devtome at the same time, and then once an income is flowing from that and from the office rentals, we can resume distribution. It requires a collective sacrifice from the community though - not sure if the community is strong enough to bear it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 25, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 09:22:01 AM
Uhauuu!
Now on Vircurex for 1 BTC you need more then 2.000.000 DVC
What is it happening?
It means that all  the monthly production of DVC (about 200.000.000) is now worth less then 100 BTC.
Is DVC going to die?
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...

I've held on to the vast majority of mine as well. Any that I did sell were at the high point of the market. Once it dropped below 82 (which was the highest I've personally seen) I pulled the orders I had up and I've been holding since.

The way I see it, the risk vs. reward of holding is much greater than doing panic selling at a fraction of the profitability. The only issue I have is that I think it may drop more from day to day before it hits the bottom... and even selling at 48 and buying at 47 when you have millions of coins boosts your holdings considerably!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 25, 2013, 09:31:38 AM
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...
That may be true, but it doesn't really matter - it still implies shares for one or more projects (or perception of them) were overpriced else instead of selling on fear and panic at that price those people would be buying up the sales of others' efforts.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 25, 2013, 09:51:22 AM
I've held on to the vast majority of mine as well. Any that I did sell were at the high point of the market. Once it dropped below 82 (which was the highest I've personally seen) I pulled the orders I had up and I've been holding since.

The way I see it, the risk vs. reward of holding is much greater than doing panic selling at a fraction of the profitability. The only issue I have is that I think it may drop more from day to day before it hits the bottom... and even selling at 48 and buying at 47 when you have millions of coins boosts your holdings considerably!
I agree. This is one problem with apportioning such significant shares to potentially short-term individual work; it becomes quite straightforward to play around with the orderbook in fairly illiquid markets for personal short-term gain. There's nothing wrong with that - it's kind of the deal with paying somebody that you should relinquish the power to determine how they spend/sell - but with no necessary longer-term tie-in it undermines the rationale for the original broader compensation method, unless it's actually used as a means of establishing the true value of an effort.

Edit: as Icoin point out anyway, the exchange price is not necessarily indicative of devcoin's future at all - the volume of dvc on say vircurex is a very small fraction of total held and an interim lower price may work to the advantage of other projects.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 25, 2013, 10:09:27 AM
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...
That may be true, but it doesn't really matter - it still implies shares for one or more projects (or perception of them) were overpriced else instead of selling on fear and panic at that price those people would be buying up the sales of others' efforts.


Well we can always experiment with the price. How about in the next writing round, the pay is half a share per 1000 words. We can then assess whether there is the same dumping. If dumping stops and the price rises, we can declare a success and keep it at half a share per thousand words. I'm all for it. Half a share at 148 satoshis per devcoin is worth much more than a full share at 47 satoshis per devcoin.

What do we need to do to make this happen?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 10:37:25 AM
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...
That may be true, but it doesn't really matter - it still implies shares for one or more projects (or perception of them) were overpriced else instead of selling on fear and panic at that price those people would be buying up the sales of others' efforts.


Well we can always experiment with the price. How about in the next writing round, the pay is half a share per 1000 words. We can then assess whether there is the same dumping. If dumping stops and the price rises, we can declare a success and keep it at half a share per thousand words. I'm all for it. Half a share at 148 satoshis per devcoin is worth much more than a full share at 47 satoshis per devcoin.

What do we need to do to make this happen?

I don't want to call out anyone publicly but what I will say is that the tanking price occurred after a single specific event: someone dumped over 20 million coins on the market on their own, tackling the big buy walls that were already up. This is what caused the downward spiral and the "panic selling" we are seeing, and is what has killed the price for the time being. It wasn't a large group of people, it was a single one.

Now, with that said, I think the current reward system is good. People just need to start paying more attention to what they're doing before they make drastic decisions.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 25, 2013, 11:34:40 AM
Well we can always experiment with the price. How about in the next writing round, the pay is half a share per 1000 words. We can then assess whether there is the same dumping. If dumping stops and the price rises, we can declare a success and keep it at half a share per thousand words. I'm all for it. Half a share at 148 satoshis per devcoin is worth much more than a full share at 47 satoshis per devcoin.

What do we need to do to make this happen?
I don't think that's what it's about. If it was simply a matter of say halving the share payout to achieve the levels you refer to, by now with a price that has more than halved that end point would already have been reached. As devtome became more popular the share payout was always going to find an equilibrium value via the dvc/btc price amongst those transacting on exchange - that's what its doing and at this point it may be best to leave the value discovery alone to see where it ends. The bigger issue is that I think many authors ascribe near-zero added value to their writings being on devtome, and therefore it's difficult to begin ascribing any value to anybody else in supporting the price for the sake of those same writings. Thatís not a statement on general writing quality (any quality issues can and will be addressed over time), or all writing, but that by for example rewarding writing that has already been compensated for and/or assessed via publishing or blogs or college or school etc thereís an incentive mismatch.

i.e. if Iíve already been paid for work, and/or an assessment process has already deemed my work to be of a certain value and so Iíve already been rewarded for it (be that in terms of money, notoriety, qualification, pride) Iím incentivised to view any additional payment for the same effort as superfluous and cash it in asap before the opportunity ends.

So if it was up to me - and it isn't up to me - I'd probably either have a small nominal payment for time submitting/editing entries or no payment at all - and let writings and writers stand on their own merits. If successful that would likely catalyse more interest in monetising it by those submitting and serve as a largely self-administered quality check. Alternatively nobody would submit anything and we could better appreciate the distinction between paid in dvc and supporting dvc. Either way it would increase the proportion for other projects, bounties and incentives - perhaps creating a self-reinforcing cycle of greater value for a greater number of interests. To give greater value to devcoins and devtome, people need to have a reason to acquire them at a cost - be that monetary or labour or time - the essence of working.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 25, 2013, 11:47:23 AM
They have gone down to thirty-something satoshis per DeVCoin in the past, then back to over 200 maybe even 300.

But maybe nowadays the vast majority of the people receiving stipends are dumpers. Maybe in the past most dumpers were one-shot bounty recipients not people getting coins every round.

Still, we haven't even gone back down to the thirty-something buying-opportunity yet that we've seen before so hey if people want to dump them cheap that is more cheap coins for people to buy, right?

I am waiting for even cheaper prices before increasing my buying though, right now I still just have my same old offers at every satoshi of price that have been there all along.

-MarkM-



Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 11:53:57 AM
They have gone down to thirty-something satoshis per DeVCoin in the past, then back to over 200 maybe even 300.

But maybe nowadays the vast majority of the people receiving stipends are dumpers. maybe in the past most dumpers were one-shot bounty recipients not people getting coins every round.

Still, we haven't even gone back down to the thirty-something buying-opportunity yet that we've seen before so hey if people want to dump them cheap that is more cheap coins for people to buy, right?

I am waiting for even cheaper prices before increasing my buying though, right now I still just have my same old offers at every satoshi of price that have been there all along.

-MarkM-




Ahhh, so this is normal? I think part of what is causing the dumping (other than the 20m from a single person) is how many people got shares the last round. At almost 1.5k shares across tons of people... those who got a few shares likely throw theirs up for sale because they don't feel it's worth holding since they won't accumulate more. It's possible that once this pay round ends, it will slow down on the selling end.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 25, 2013, 01:03:47 PM
I don't want to call out anyone publicly but what I will say is that the tanking price occurred after a single specific event: someone dumped over 20 million coins on the market on their own, tackling the big buy walls that were already up. This is what caused the downward spiral and the "panic selling" we are seeing, and is what has killed the price for the time being. It wasn't a large group of people, it was a single one.

Now, with that said, I think the current reward system is good. People just need to start paying more attention to what they're doing before they make drastic decisions.

Perhaps the guy who dumped the 20 million is planning to rebuy them all when the price drops to 35 sat...

I agree with Ranlo that we should leave the reward system as is.  That's what we agreed to as writers.  What we do with our earnings is up to us.  Personally, I use my DVC to better my life.  For me, DVC will become more valuable as more options to use them (without having to first trade them) to better my life open up.  People who develop such opportunities are welcome to promote them to me.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 25, 2013, 02:36:36 PM
Maybe expand the Devcoin ecosystem. A couple of suggestions, not well thought out and some obvious flaws:

Allow anyone with DVC to issue bounties.
Offer subsidies on items or services priced in DVC and relevant to development projects.

Something else worth considering, Devcoin may fall outside regulatory definitions for currencies in places where Bitcoin's feeling regulatory pressure. In that case fiat donations to a system that promotes open source development could be a more open route to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Risky but I think its plausible.

I canít see why anyone or group with dvc canít already offer bounties. In fact that seems like a pretty straightforward solution or process for those with ideas or frustrations with particular aspects but without the technical expertise to do it themselves.

Ranlo Ė I know what youíre referring to. The problem with that perspective in isolation is (1) The price had already been falling for some time (whether just in trend with other cryptos, or dvc specific) (2) that the seller(s) sold into a wall is perhaps better than if they had just sold right down the orderbook. Those with dvc have the right to sell them, even if itís just to buy them back cheaper via trying to provoke a capitulation, so rather than appealing to justness perhaps itís better to simply ask why there has been more selling pressure than buying.

Wiser - that's fine, but then people (not referring to anybody in particular, including you) shouldn't complain about the price, lack of incentive to initiate or develop upon other projects at that price, or any resulting dearth of bid interest.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 02:41:56 PM
Maybe expand the Devcoin ecosystem. A couple of suggestions, not well thought out and some obvious flaws:

Allow anyone with DVC to issue bounties.
Offer subsidies on items or services priced in DVC and relevant to development projects.

Something else worth considering, Devcoin may fall outside regulatory definitions for currencies in places where Bitcoin's feeling regulatory pressure. In that case fiat donations to a system that promotes open source development could be a more open route to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Risky but I think its plausible.

I canít see why anyone or group with dvc canít already offer bounties. In fact that seems like a pretty straightforward solution or process for those with ideas or frustrations with particular aspects but without the technical expertise to do it themselves.

Ranlo Ė I know what youíre referring to. The problem with that perspective in isolation is (1) The price had already been falling for some time (whether just in trend with other cryptos, or dvc specific) (2) that the seller(s) sold into a wall is perhaps better than if they had just sold right down the orderbook. Those with dvc have the right to sell them, even if itís just to buy them back cheaper via trying to provoke a capitulation, so rather than appealing to justness perhaps itís better to simply ask why there has been more selling pressure than buying.

Wiser - that's fine, but then people (not referring to anybody in particular, including you) shouldn't complain about the price, lack of incentive to initiate or develop upon other projects at that price, or any resulting dearth of bid interest.

Why there hasn't been more buying pressure is an easy one to answer: there is no true value to DVC outside of converting it to BTC. At least as of now.

A market, while it would help with some of this, would lead to the same general issue: if I want to sell something for $100 each... I have to get the money somewhere. So I sell for DVC, then sell the DVC to get money so I can get more items to sell.

A game would be different, in that you don't necessarily need to keep converting to fiat to keep the ball rolling. For example, take Facebook's credits (or any F2P game for that matter). There are millions of dollars being poured into the fake currencies to be used in the game. This is what we really need -- something that gives the DVC true value without requiring us to keep cycling it straight back to fiat just to sustain the process.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: weisoq on July 25, 2013, 03:31:45 PM
Why there hasn't been more buying pressure is an easy one to answer: there is no true value to DVC outside of converting it to BTC. At least as of now.

A market, while it would help with some of this, would lead to the same general issue: if I want to sell something for $100 each... I have to get the money somewhere. So I sell for DVC, then sell the DVC to get money so I can get more items to sell.

A game would be different, in that you don't necessarily need to keep converting to fiat to keep the ball rolling. For example, take Facebook's credits (or any F2P game for that matter). There are millions of dollars being poured into the fake currencies to be used in the game. This is what we really need -- something that gives the DVC true value without requiring us to keep cycling it straight back to fiat just to sustain the process.
I don't really agree (other projects in the works as you say, and stan's point about anyone's ability to fund anything of value in dvc) - I understood the 'true value' of dvc as supporting open-source work and what they may encompass.

But assuming that's correct, by saying there is no true value outside of converting to btc that implies that - at least as of now - the visible rewarded projects (primarily devtome) have no intrinsic value, because value is underwritten by rewarding or paying for those projects undertaken. And so if that's the case why are writers being paid in dvc when to realise any value they will convert it to btc?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 25, 2013, 04:03:53 PM
Why there hasn't been more buying pressure is an easy one to answer: there is no true value to DVC outside of converting it to BTC. At least as of now.

A market, while it would help with some of this, would lead to the same general issue: if I want to sell something for $100 each... I have to get the money somewhere. So I sell for DVC, then sell the DVC to get money so I can get more items to sell.

A game would be different, in that you don't necessarily need to keep converting to fiat to keep the ball rolling. For example, take Facebook's credits (or any F2P game for that matter). There are millions of dollars being poured into the fake currencies to be used in the game. This is what we really need -- something that gives the DVC true value without requiring us to keep cycling it straight back to fiat just to sustain the process.
I don't really agree (other projects in the works as you say, and stan's point about anyone's ability to fund anything of value in dvc) - I understood the 'true value' of dvc as supporting open-source work and what they may encompass.

But assuming that's correct, by saying there is no true value outside of converting to btc that implies that - at least as of now - the visible rewarded projects (primarily devtome) have no intrinsic value, because value is underwritten by rewarding or paying for those projects undertaken. And so if that's the case why are writers being paid in dvc when to realise any value they will convert it to btc?

DVC supports open source but... where is that value from? People aren't going out and saying "I have $100... I'll go buy some Devcoins so I can support open source stuff." You can give people billions of DVC's but if there is no outside reason to purchase into them, it has no value regardless.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 25, 2013, 04:17:53 PM
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...
That may be true, but it doesn't really matter - it still implies shares for one or more projects (or perception of them) were overpriced else instead of selling on fear and panic at that price those people would be buying up the sales of others' efforts.


Well we can always experiment with the price. How about in the next writing round, the pay is half a share per 1000 words. We can then assess whether there is the same dumping. If dumping stops and the price rises, we can declare a success and keep it at half a share per thousand words. I'm all for it. Half a share at 148 satoshis per devcoin is worth much more than a full share at 47 satoshis per devcoin.

What do we need to do to make this happen?

I don't want to call out anyone publicly but what I will say is that the tanking price occurred after a single specific event: someone dumped over 20 million coins on the market on their own, tackling the big buy walls that were already up. This is what caused the downward spiral and the "panic selling" we are seeing, and is what has killed the price for the time being. It wasn't a large group of people, it was a single one.

Now, with that said, I think the current reward system is good. People just need to start paying more attention to what they're doing before they make drastic decisions.

You need to understand what moves price. That buy wall created some interest but it quickt fell when ppl realized there was no pump. As days went buy small sells broke into it. Like i said before when price sits on support for a while it will fall like a knife or be a long term bottom. As dvc the true value was lower because noone was willing to buy above market
not at market.

I said it before and wiser contradicted me but there is a science involved in creating interest in rising prices. You have to buy a bit above market a bit below as limits and a bit at market as you support a rise. Walls are only good from a distant price at it invokes fear greed.


Title: Re: TRADING CARD GAME! :D
Post by: The Goat Master on July 25, 2013, 08:50:36 PM
..
Is there still a bounty for a trading card game?  it would be a big undertaking, but not as big with crowdsourcing from the devcoin community.  We could make use of 3d printers too (first 3d trading cards would gain big publicity for devcoin) ;D

After looking at the Open Source Card Game WTactics CCG:
http://wtactics.org/

I see that it takes much longer to develop than I expected, so there won't be a direct bounty since we can't afford to pay for an entire game. However, we can pay for a limited amount of developers, so the first five people developing that game can apply to Metazilla to go on the devcoin share list and be paid that way. If there is more interest in the game and no objections, then we'll let more people go on the share list.


Ok.  I can make card templates and creature names.
We can have an artist, storyliner, and some other guys, if you're interested, quote and reply!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 25, 2013, 11:41:08 PM
You need to understand what moves price. That buy wall created some interest but it quickt fell when ppl realized there was no pump. As days went buy small sells broke into it. Like i said before when price sits on support for a while it will fall like a knife or be a long term bottom. As dvc the true value was lower because noone was willing to buy above market
not at market.

I said it before and wiser contradicted me but there is a science involved in creating interest in rising prices. You have to buy a bit above market a bit below as limits and a bit at market as you support a rise. Walls are only good from a distant price at it invokes fear greed.

That thing I never said keeps coming back up LOL.  The quote you are referring to where I contradicted you was wrongly attributed to me.  I actually would like to understand better how walls and pumps work.  You refer to a wall without a pump.  I get what a wall is--a very large order or group of orders to buy or sell at a particular price.  What is a pump?  Is that when someone keeps adding orders to the wall to keep it up?  Like for example, if I put an order to buy 20 million DVC at 65 sat, and then 1 million of them get sold, I then place another order to buy 1 million DVC at 65 sat so as to keep the wall right at 20 million?  Do I understand this correctly?  Or is a pump something else altogether?  If so, then what is it?

Would you be willing to write an article about the science involved in creating interest in rising prices and then send me the link?  I want to learn how that works.  Thanks :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 25, 2013, 11:58:03 PM
Wiser - that's fine, but then people (not referring to anybody in particular, including you) shouldn't complain about the price, lack of incentive to initiate or develop upon other projects at that price, or any resulting dearth of bid interest.

Fair enough, at least about the price.  I understand that if I sell DVCs that does contribute to the prices falling.  This isn't a complaint but I do have a difficult time finding ways to use my Devcoins as Devcoins, and that's why I sell them for BTC (or did--the current price is a bit too low for my taste so I'm holding for now).  At this point, there is more to do with BTC.  I'm optimistic that this will change for the better over time, and I'm looking forward to learning more about that, and hopefully being among the first to invest my DVC in some of those new projects.  But in the mean time, I'm not content to just sit on my DVCs.  I do want to do something useful with them--something that will in some way improve my life now (not just in some hypothetical future where DVCs are worth a dollar each and I'm glad I sat on millions of them now), whether that is to cash them out and pay bills or buy some dividend paying stocks.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 26, 2013, 12:18:52 AM
You need to understand what moves price. That buy wall created some interest but it quickt fell when ppl realized there was no pump. As days went buy small sells broke into it. Like i said before when price sits on support for a while it will fall like a knife or be a long term bottom. As dvc the true value was lower because noone was willing to buy above market
not at market.

I said it before and wiser contradicted me but there is a science involved in creating interest in rising prices. You have to buy a bit above market a bit below as limits and a bit at market as you support a rise. Walls are only good from a distant price at it invokes fear greed.

That thing I never said keeps coming back up LOL.  The quote you are referring to where I contradicted you was wrongly attributed to me.  I actually would like to understand better how walls and pumps work.  You refer to a wall without a pump.  I get what a wall is--a very large order or group of orders to buy or sell at a particular price.  What is a pump?  Is that when someone keeps adding orders to the wall to keep it up?  Like for example, if I put an order to buy 20 million DVC at 65 sat, and then 1 million of them get sold, I then place another order to buy 1 million DVC at 65 sat so as to keep the wall right at 20 million?  Do I understand this correctly?  Or is a pump something else altogether?  If so, then what is it?

Would you be willing to write an article about the science involved in creating interest in rising prices and then send me the link?  I want to learn how that works.  Thanks :)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but based on my understanding, a pump is when people remove their buy orders and buy down a lot of the sell ones. For ex:

Buy orders are at: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Sell orders are at: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

For the pump, those buying at 5-10 take their orders down and buy out all the 11, 12, 13, 14, leaving up 15. Then they re-list at 15, 16, 17, 18. This theoretically boosts the value because now the lowest sell price is much higher than it was before.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 26, 2013, 12:41:51 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but based on my understanding, a pump is when people remove their buy orders and buy down a lot of the sell ones. For ex:

Buy orders are at: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Sell orders are at: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

For the pump, those buying at 5-10 take their orders down and buy out all the 11, 12, 13, 14, leaving up 15. Then they re-list at 15, 16, 17, 18. This theoretically boosts the value because now the lowest sell price is much higher than it was before.

And the wall would be where they put in a massive buy order at 15 so no one can sell at a lower price for a while.

It would have to be a coordinated effort among all the people who want to buy.  And all those people have to be willing to buy at a higher price than they might otherwise be able to get.  So they would have to have a very good reason to drive the price up, enough that they'd be willing to buy some at the inflated price.  Maybe they do this in order to then dump at the higher price?  Would that be a pump and dump?  What other reasons might people have to be involved in a pump?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 26, 2013, 12:51:14 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but based on my understanding, a pump is when people remove their buy orders and buy down a lot of the sell ones. For ex:

Buy orders are at: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Sell orders are at: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

For the pump, those buying at 5-10 take their orders down and buy out all the 11, 12, 13, 14, leaving up 15. Then they re-list at 15, 16, 17, 18. This theoretically boosts the value because now the lowest sell price is much higher than it was before.

And the wall would be where they put in a massive buy order at 15 so no one can sell at a lower price for a while.

It would have to be a coordinated effort among all the people who want to buy.  And all those people have to be willing to buy at a higher price than they might otherwise be able to get.  So they would have to have a very good reason to drive the price up, enough that they'd be willing to buy some at the inflated price.  Maybe they do this in order to then dump at the higher price?  Would that be a pump and dump?  What other reasons might people have to be involved in a pump?

The general theory behind it is that when you pump, there is a slight permanence attached. For example, you may boost a coin from being worth (arbitrary numbers here for show) 1 up to being worth 10. While it is likely going to drop down again, it may only drop down to 2 this time, meaning that not only is the rest of your fortune worth more, but the future fortune you're still building is worth more as well. In some pumps, the change has been more drastic, such as going from 1 to 10 and settling back down at 5-6. In these cases, the small loss is easily made up for it in the massive gains there will be even over a short period.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 26, 2013, 05:13:03 AM
You need to understand what moves price. That buy wall created some interest but it quickt fell when ppl realized there was no pump. As days went buy small sells broke into it. Like i said before when price sits on support for a while it will fall like a knife or be a long term bottom. As dvc the true value was lower because noone was willing to buy above market
not at market.

I said it before and wiser contradicted me but there is a science involved in creating interest in rising prices. You have to buy a bit above market a bit below as limits and a bit at market as you support a rise. Walls are only good from a distant price at it invokes fear greed.

That thing I never said keeps coming back up LOL.  The quote you are referring to where I contradicted you was wrongly attributed to me.  I actually would like to understand better how walls and pumps work.  You refer to a wall without a pump.  I get what a wall is--a very large order or group of orders to buy or sell at a particular price.  What is a pump?  Is that when someone keeps adding orders to the wall to keep it up?  Like for example, if I put an order to buy 20 million DVC at 65 sat, and then 1 million of them get sold, I then place another order to buy 1 million DVC at 65 sat so as to keep the wall right at 20 million?  Do I understand this correctly?  Or is a pump something else altogether?  If so, then what is it?

Would you be willing to write an article about the science involved in creating interest in rising prices and then send me the link?  I want to learn how that works.  Thanks :)

Hehe sorry funny if someone was to read our posts they would laugh at the misunderstanding then..
Ok so its all to do with phsycology I believe. Think about what happens in the trading pits when they were around.. Someone comes in with confidence and buys ok noone notices except a few but then as price comes back to test more orders to buy pop up from this mysterious buyer.. ok so now people want in thinking he or she knows something.. so now people buy above market the mystery shopper buys a bit above to exasberate the rise and imagine someone who had been waiing for low prices now believes the bottom may be in they buy into the rally aswell. When i say starting a pump thats what i mean. Its percieval of future pricing is what drives equilibrium.

So what happena when price fades back down? the smart mystery buyer decides he got a good avg price and wants to avg in some more with half of his intended buying. He sets up another wal above and buys above market each time a sell comes. What does this do? It will bring in hesitant money which thought this pump and dump is unlike any other and its the real deal. This is where the real demand will come from and a sustained pump will allow for dvc to start looking good to those developers looking at potentially some of the biggsr bounties as market cap rises. Its a chicken and egg argument and dvc is very intriguing in this manor as the higher it goes the more successful it will be. I expect that to look like an exponential curve with no pause as people will be greedy at higher and higher potential targets to sell. Kinda what happened with btc as the
hope there was that it was going to dethrone usdx and thats kind of priceless when compared to usdx.

When someone puts up a buy or sell wall they have to follow thru or let others follow thru for them.. Seems like we are still in a large bear market on this currency until i start seeing those things. I suspect it wl be quick and probably because of maybe a new project or breakthrough. At that time you wont be able to buy enough dvc as it will rise quickly without pause.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: best_btc on July 26, 2013, 08:16:03 AM
info@bitstamp.net  I wrote Bitstamp to add DVC as well, as I did and continue to do for btc-e, mtgox. Do the same! lets make some breathing space for our currency!!!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 26, 2013, 11:08:29 AM
Devcoin will be two years old on August 11th (it started on August 11th 2011). This makes it the third oldest cryptocurrency (only Bitcoin and Namecoin are older).

I think we should do something to mark the occasion because not many coins survive this long! Any suggestions?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 26, 2013, 05:49:33 PM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Holy crap... I did NOT expect that big of a jump that fast. I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very glad I didn't do a fear-dump like a lot of people did.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 26, 2013, 06:17:09 PM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Where do you see someone SOLD 50 million(you're probably referring to the wrong chart btc/dvc, most ppl look at dvc/btc)? 35 million were bought :) secondary buy wall set up ready to go to war...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 26, 2013, 06:17:56 PM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Holy crap... I did NOT expect that big of a jump that fast. I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very glad I didn't do a fear-dump like a lot of people did.

This is to be expected with such risk reward situations as these... they don't come very often.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 26, 2013, 06:30:00 PM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Holy crap... I did NOT expect that big of a jump that fast. I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very glad I didn't do a fear-dump like a lot of people did.

This is to be expected with such risk reward situations as these... they don't come very often.

Well, I do somewhat regret not buying out yesterday... I was thinking at 45sat or so it was going to be a great deal... but then figured it may go down a bit more first. :(


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 26, 2013, 06:42:15 PM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Holy crap... I did NOT expect that big of a jump that fast. I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very glad I didn't do a fear-dump like a lot of people did.

This is to be expected with such risk reward situations as these... they don't come very often.

Well, I do somewhat regret not buying out yesterday... I was thinking at 45sat or so it was going to be a great deal... but then figured it may go down a bit more first. :(

Yup well 33 was the low of the last pump so I didn't expect it to go below 33 if the chart was to show a true long term bull.

Also remember what I said before about how to create rising prices, that regret you feel I'm sure everyone who waited feels that regret and now is willing to buy above market most likely. This is what will create a true rising market, I'm not sure if it will retrace but if it does I'm in for some more.


Title: Round 25 Receiver
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 26, 2013, 10:38:55 PM
The round 25 receiver files have been uploaded to:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/receiver_25.csv
http://devcoinpool.btc-music.com/receiver/receiver_25.csv
http://devcoinblockexplorer.info/receiver/receiver_25.csv
http://devtome.com/files/receiver_25.csv
http://devcoin.darkgamex.ch/receiver_25.csv

The account file is at:
http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/account_25.csv

There were 669 original receiver lines, so the average number of devcoins per share is 180,000,000 dvc / 669 = 269,058 dvc. Administrator pay is 54.0 shares, 8.1 percent of the total. The value at vircurex is 0.855 mcbtc/dvc, which works out to 0.23 btc. At the mtgox price of 96$, that works out to 22$.

People on that list will start getting those coins in round 25, starting at block 100,000. The procedure for generating the receiver files is at:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin#generating_the_files

The next bounties will go into round 26:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/bounty_26.csv


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 26, 2013, 10:51:22 PM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Holy crap... I did NOT expect that big of a jump that fast. I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very glad I didn't do a fear-dump like a lot of people did.

This is to be expected with such risk reward situations as these... they don't come very often.

Well, I do somewhat regret not buying out yesterday... I was thinking at 45sat or so it was going to be a great deal... but then figured it may go down a bit more first. :(

85 sat per coin?  Almost 250% up, wow!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 27, 2013, 03:14:49 AM
Whoever orchestrated today's massive pump, thanks for the demonstration.  Now I think I understand what it is.  I only wish I'd been able to watch it more closely as it was happening (I was away from the Internet until after the fact).  I'm certainly happy with the results, though.

I didn't panic dump either.  I had a low price in mind below which I wasn't going to sell.  I picked up more DVC stocks while waiting out the low.  If I weren't so keen on ASICMINER shares I suppose I could pick up a new hobby of selling DVCs high and then buying more of them when the price drops.  One of these days, maybe :-)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 27, 2013, 06:43:07 AM
Uhauuu!
Today someone has sold 50 million DVC on Vircurex. And I can see on the list 14, 44 and 35 million ready to be sold. Despite the dumping, the price is gone from 2 to 1.1 million DVC for 1 BTC. Not bad. Well, still bad, but not so bad.

Holy crap... I did NOT expect that big of a jump that fast. I'm pleasantly surprised and I'm very glad I didn't do a fear-dump like a lot of people did.


What, it got to 2 million at one point?  That's crazy.  I bought some at 600,000 thinking I got a steal after buying at $.00041.

Man, where's the cash when you need it, at 2 million per BTC I would have bought like crazy if I had the money.

When is BFL gonna mail my ASICS.  That would help so much.  They keep pushing my ship date back every month.  I would have bought all the devcoins possible with any bitcoins 1 TH can mine.  And that would have been a lot.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 27, 2013, 06:46:29 AM
Whoever orchestrated today's massive pump, thanks for the demonstration.  Now I think I understand what it is.  I only wish I'd been able to watch it more closely as it was happening (I was away from the Internet until after the fact).  I'm certainly happy with the results, though.

I didn't panic dump either.  I had a low price in mind below which I wasn't going to sell.  I picked up more DVC stocks while waiting out the low.  If I weren't so keen on ASICMINER shares I suppose I could pick up a new hobby of selling DVCs high and then buying more of them when the price drops.  One of these days, maybe :-)



So how is it up 250% when someone dumped 50 million?  Unless it was orchestrated - someone wanted to buy a lot and a seller was spoken to and the huge buy may have brought in attention and other buyers.  Cause normally a dump that huge causes a bigger drop c. With stocks selling begets seeking as fear kicks in and buying begets more buying as greed kicks in.

So this then wasn't so much a 50 million devcoin dump as much as a huge pre-planned block purchase which would then explain the huge jump in value.  


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 27, 2013, 06:56:29 AM
Whoever orchestrated today's massive pump, thanks for the demonstration.  Now I think I understand what it is.  I only wish I'd been able to watch it more closely as it was happening (I was away from the Internet until after the fact).  I'm certainly happy with the results, though.

I didn't panic dump either.  I had a low price in mind below which I wasn't going to sell.  I picked up more DVC stocks while waiting out the low.  If I weren't so keen on ASICMINER shares I suppose I could pick up a new hobby of selling DVCs high and then buying more of them when the price drops.  One of these days, maybe :-)



So how is it up 250% when someone dumped 50 million?  Unless it was orchestrated - someone wanted to buy a lot and a seller was spoken to and the huge buy may have brought in attention and other buyers.  Cause normally a dump that huge causes a bigger drop c. With stocks selling begets seeking as fear kicks in and buying begets more buying as greed kicks in.

So this then wasn't so much a 50 million devcoin dump as much as a huge pre-planned block purchase which would then explain the huge jump in value.  

In order for rising prices you must buy above market. There was no selling except
at 85 and the second phase kicked in there. Now you know what im talking about that its backed up by strength.. Theres still over 150 mlion waiting to be bought for those who challenge the
pump here.0


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 27, 2013, 07:20:08 AM
Anybody know of seeking alpha ever published my article.  I made a strong point in there about devcoin although I had to keep the article focused on stocks otherwise they'll never publish it.  I expected some activity once the article went out as it goes out to about 30,000 active stock investors and many never heard of crypto coins and many are speculators just like me (perfect target market for devcoin) which is why I came in this crypto world.

Cause something had to trigger the desire to buy 50 million coins.  That's a lot considering the price keeps going down.

I'll have to check my seeking alpha account to see.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 27, 2013, 07:22:25 AM
Whoever orchestrated today's massive pump, thanks for the demonstration.  Now I think I understand what it is.  I only wish I'd been able to watch it more closely as it was happening (I was away from the Internet until after the fact).  I'm certainly happy with the results, though.

I didn't panic dump either.  I had a low price in mind below which I wasn't going to sell.  I picked up more DVC stocks while waiting out the low.  If I weren't so keen on ASICMINER shares I suppose I could pick up a new hobby of selling DVCs high and then buying more of them when the price drops.  One of these days, maybe :-)



So how is it up 250% when someone dumped 50 million?  Unless it was orchestrated - someone wanted to buy a lot and a seller was spoken to and the huge buy may have brought in attention and other buyers.  Cause normally a dump that huge causes a bigger drop c. With stocks selling begets seeking as fear kicks in and buying begets more buying as greed kicks in.

So this then wasn't so much a 50 million devcoin dump as much as a huge pre-planned block purchase which would then explain the huge jump in value.  

In order for rising prices you must buy above market. There was no selling except
at 85 and the second phase kicked in there. Now you know what im talking about that its backed up by strength.. Theres still over 150 mlion waiting to be bought for those who challenge the
pump here.0

I'm glad to hear it. I bought at much higher prices although I'm looking at this long term snd once the BITCOIN ETF takes in a few months you're gonna see bankers come in and take this crypto market to a whole new level.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 27, 2013, 07:25:41 AM
Whoever orchestrated today's massive pump, thanks for the demonstration.  Now I think I understand what it is.  I only wish I'd been able to watch it more closely as it was happening (I was away from the Internet until after the fact).  I'm certainly happy with the results, though.

I didn't panic dump either.  I had a low price in mind below which I wasn't going to sell.  I picked up more DVC stocks while waiting out the low.  If I weren't so keen on ASICMINER shares I suppose I could pick up a new hobby of selling DVCs high and then buying more of them when the price drops.  One of these days, maybe :-)



So how is it up 250% when someone dumped 50 million?  Unless it was orchestrated - someone wanted to buy a lot and a seller was spoken to and the huge buy may have brought in attention and other buyers.  Cause normally a dump that huge causes a bigger drop c. With stocks selling begets seeking as fear kicks in and buying begets more buying as greed kicks in.

So this then wasn't so much a 50 million devcoin dump as much as a huge pre-planned block purchase which would then explain the huge jump in value.  

In order for rising prices you must buy above market. There was no selling except
at 85 and the second phase kicked in there. Now you know what im talking about that its backed up by strength.. Theres still over 150 mlion waiting to be bought for those who challenge the
pump here.0

I'm glad to hear it. I bought at much higher prices although I'm looking at this long term snd once the BITCOIN ETF takes in a few months you're gonna see bankers come in and take this crypto market to a whole new level.

Ya me too just be in buy only mode hold for long long term buy every increment down.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: The Goat Master on July 27, 2013, 01:00:59 PM
Off topic but I can publish your devotee article on the kindle
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_kindle_publishing_service


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 27, 2013, 02:33:18 PM
It seems someone is really having fun with DVC: going down again, maybe down to 1 BTC = 2 million DVC in less then 1 day.

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :( ;D >:( :o :o :o :( :o :o

I noticed that too.  Maybe someone will pump it up again.  Maybe it won't drop down to quite as low as it was before.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: K1773R on July 27, 2013, 03:32:10 PM
well the pump was backed by 100k coins at each satoshi increment, obvious it cant sustain for long :P


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 27, 2013, 03:32:58 PM
^^ There was a big buy wall at 74 sat last night, about 12btc worth, and it wasn't eaten, it was removed by whoever set it up and replaced with a series of small buy orders 100kdvc in price steps down, designed to force dumpers to get less and less for their coins, especially as no-one else is stepping in to buy.

The whole thing is fascinating - wonder what the next stage of this saga will be...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 27, 2013, 03:39:14 PM
The 100k at each satoshi up and down is me, I have them all the way from 1 to over 300 or 350 or something and replace them when they get eaten.

Except for a little gap around the active zone to account for fees and a modicum of profit of course.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 27, 2013, 03:42:26 PM
^^ There was a big buy wall at 74 sat last night, about 12btc worth, and it wasn't eaten, it was removed by whoever set it up and replaced with a series of small buy orders 100kdvc in price steps down, designed to force dumpers to get less and less for their coins, especially as no-one else is stepping in to buy.

The whole thing is fascinating - wonder what the next stage of this saga will be...

That is VERY interesting.  I was wondering what happened to that wall...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: K1773R on July 27, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
The 100k at each satoshi up and down is me, I have them all the way from 1 to over 300 or 350 or something and replace them when they get eaten.

Except for a little gap around the active zone to account for fees and a modicum of profit of course.

-MarkM-

hehe, why did i knew that :P


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on July 27, 2013, 05:43:04 PM
From DVC sales, I've tried to kick in about 1 BTC worth of buys as well as putting up buy walls. I tried to follow the posted advice to sell a portion and use a portion to buy back, but it seems forced. Like just another trader trying to manipulate the price.

So then I put about 30% of my DVC in cryptostocks.com. I also have some sitting on mcxNOW, but it's not being put to any practical use.

Question: Where else can I use the DVC to reinvest in the coin/community? Are there other places like cryptostocks that will take DVC and reinvest it?

I really like cryptostocks since it's not a straight sale and the coin is doing something for me while also for someone else and it's not further degrading the current prices.

+1!  Yes, give us good ways to invest our DVC and we won't need to sell so many of them.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on July 27, 2013, 07:08:02 PM
DVC Generation Share listing request:

There are two projects that i would like to suggest to add to the developers list:

http://www.freecadweb.org/

and

http://salome-platform.org/

I kindly ask the Devcoin Comunity to support our effort (for example you can ask for a DVC donation address :) )

DVB will publish future releases in this standard. It simplyfies things for the real world and for virtual worlds.

Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzfT-ZDp0Wo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2caHYngtTmM&list=PLXZrK-O9Bx8rWv2bXBWBM1jI4KlDOWxMI


Title: Wiser and Worldinacoin Are New Admins
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 28, 2013, 05:33:26 AM
Wiser and Worldinacoin both joined as signup admins. Wiser also chose to be a file admin. Weisoq has resigned from his signup admin post to concentrate on writing, he is welcome to become an admin again whenever he wants.

To encourage the admins to stay on, I'm increasing the maximum admin pay from 10% of the total to 15%.


Title: Amazon Gift Card
Post by: Unthinkingbit on July 28, 2013, 06:01:37 AM
Four days have passed so the troll blocking bounty is official:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg2777759#msg2777759

When I told friends about a few things that people could buy with bitcoins, the only one that was wanted was the Amazon gift card. A business could buy Amazon gift cards directly or with bitcoins:
http://www.itradebtc.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59

and sell them for devcoins. I suggest a 12 share award for the first business to sell a gift card in devcoins, 9 for the second, 6 for the third, and 3 for the last. I also suggest a 2 share award for the first person who writes about a post at least 50 words long about buying the gift card from each business, and a one share award for the second person. Any objections?

After at least one devcoin business sells an Amazon gift card, as per Ranlo's suggestion we'll make a bounty thread for people to post what they want to buy in devcoins.

Edit: The first Amazon gift card business has been made:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg3091835#msg3091835

so the next award is 9 shares.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 28, 2013, 06:09:35 PM
Because those who've earned them them are selling at lower and lower prices - implying that many value their efforts and those of others at a (far) lower level than that initially paid, or where they perceived that payment level to be. It's probably better this happens asap as gives a indicative clearing level of the value of e.g. writings by writers, and therefore I hope a means of re-assessing sustainable payments and shares.

That's the classic theory - in practice I think people are operating on fear and panic. They fear they'll get nothing if they wait to sell, so they sell. I've held onto all mine and sometimes I wonder if I'm a mug. Then I console myself with the thought that when fear and capitulation are greatest, that's when the market turns...
That may be true, but it doesn't really matter - it still implies shares for one or more projects (or perception of them) were overpriced else instead of selling on fear and panic at that price those people would be buying up the sales of others' efforts.


Well we can always experiment with the price. How about in the next writing round, the pay is half a share per 1000 words. We can then assess whether there is the same dumping. If dumping stops and the price rises, we can declare a success and keep it at half a share per thousand words. I'm all for it. Half a share at 148 satoshis per devcoin is worth much more than a full share at 47 satoshis per devcoin.

What do we need to do to make this happen?

I don't want to call out anyone publicly but what I will say is that the tanking price occurred after a single specific event: someone dumped over 20 million coins on the market on their own, tackling the big buy walls that were already up. This is what caused the downward spiral and the "panic selling" we are seeing, and is what has killed the price for the time being. It wasn't a large group of people, it was a single one.

Now, with that said, I think the current reward system is good. People just need to start paying more attention to what they're doing before they make drastic decisions.

Ok I think I've solved the mystery - the price in May and teh subsequent dump was down to a character called Fontas - see the following:

http://trollboxarchive.com/search.php?search_type=all&search=dvc#

We genuine community members are such a bunch of innocents, arn't we?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 28, 2013, 06:19:52 PM
most of us already know it was him but his pump created a massivr bull chart imo.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on July 28, 2013, 06:23:27 PM
most of us already know it was him but his pump created a massivr bull chart imo.

I guess I'm the only innocent around here then. I expect it's because I'm a girl.  :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on July 28, 2013, 09:19:34 PM
most of us already know it was him but his pump created a massivr bull chart imo.

I guess I'm the only innocent around here then. I expect it's because I'm a girl.  :)

Everyone knows there are no girls online... unless you mean like GIRL = Guy In Real Life, o.O


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 28, 2013, 09:45:30 PM
most of us already know it was him but his pump created a massivr bull chart imo.

I guess I'm the only innocent around here then. I expect it's because I'm a girl.  :)

Everyone knows there are no girls online... unless you mean like GIRL = Guy In Real Life, o.O
seriously lol


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: markm on July 28, 2013, 11:10:44 PM
Maybe once an "Open Transactions client for grandmas" is available more people will use it to get direct access to the assets listed at

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

It is a pity in a way that no "brokers" showed up on the forums or web, though I suppose the players whose guildmasters or clanmasters or whatever provided some kind of provision of such things might be happy not to have been pushed aside by hordes of bitcoiners during the early years...

-MarkM-




Title: Vircurex API update
Post by: FuzzyBear on July 30, 2013, 12:38:22 PM
not sure who runs this http://dvcticker.appspot.com/ but looks like the tickers need to be updated with the new vircurex API, can this be prompted to the developers please

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: killerstorm on July 31, 2013, 07:56:48 AM
Am I wrong? Is there anything it can be done to reduce this effect? Is it just pile them up without selling or using them a real solution? If we sell them, they lose value, if we do not use them they are not going to increase in value. Are we stuck?

The solution is to create more uses for DVC. Right now it has to compete with dozens of cryptocurrencies and offers no advantages whatsoever, so it is silly for investors to buy it.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: jasinlee on July 31, 2013, 02:38:14 PM
Anything with the word bay at the end will get you a cease and desist from ebay. Just a heads up.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: sidhujag on July 31, 2013, 05:22:54 PM
Am I wrong? Is there anything it can be done to reduce this effect? Is it just pile them up without selling or using them a real solution? If we sell them, they lose value, if we do not use them they are not going to increase in value. Are we stuck?

The solution is to create more uses for DVC. Right now it has to compete with dozens of cryptocurrencies and offers no advantages whatsoever, so it is silly for investors to buy it.


Right and it is priced accordingly, but market is always forward looking so when it is the right time to buy it, you won't be getting it at these prices for sure. It all boils down to how much you believe in dvc and the fundamentals of it. If you believe it has a future then investing when it is left for dead is the best thing to do.

Fundamentally I believe inflation is necessary to compete with deflation to find a harmonious balance to avoid prices from rising/falling too fast. As new solutions are made to use dvc the more bright it should shine as a proper alternative to usdx. People saying you can just split btc as many times as you need don't understand the economics of the forces creating stable prices. By stable I mean people are willingly exchanging goods with one another with no incentive to hold underlying monetary mechanism just because it will be worth more in the future (deflationary), or exchanging now because it may be worth less tomorrow (inflationary).

Also remember that the open source community is a huge market, and if and when they start using dvc to fund projects that would bring an unprecedented amount of growth of new ideas and innovation as a result would boost growth and shine light on the entire crypto community.


Thats my 2 cents anyway.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: alyssa85 on August 02, 2013, 03:41:43 AM
So what are we doing to mark Devcoin's two year anniversary on August 5th?

I vote we all flock to the bitcoin subreddit on the day and tip random people 10 cents worth (about 1667 devcoins at the moment) - there is an altcoin tipbot that is devcoin enabled - see http://www.reddit.com/r/ALTcointip/comments/1esl7u/altcointip_bot_now_live/

has anyone got any other ideas?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 02, 2013, 11:00:48 PM
This is off topic but I'm a new devtome writer and I was just wondering if somebody could look over some of my articles and see if they are "devtome-worthy".  I looked at some of the syntax pages and followed normal wikipedia syntax but I'm just trying to make sure!  :)
My userpage: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:smeagol
Thank you for the help!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 02, 2013, 11:11:10 PM
This is off topic but I'm a new devtome writer and I was just wondering if somebody could look over some of my articles and see if they are "devtome-worthy".  I looked at some of the syntax pages and followed normal wikipedia syntax but I'm just trying to make sure!  :)
My userpage: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:smeagol
Thank you for the help!

Sent you a pm!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 03, 2013, 12:02:51 AM
This is off topic but I'm a new devtome writer and I was just wondering if somebody could look over some of my articles and see if they are "devtome-worthy".  I looked at some of the syntax pages and followed normal wikipedia syntax but I'm just trying to make sure!  :)
My userpage: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:smeagol
Thank you for the help!

Sent you a pm!
thanks ranlo, you 'da bomb!!  ;)

I looked at the bounty page here http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now and it says that there is a bounty for a logo/symbol and a button (3/5 and 1/5 of a share respectively).
How does this look? (it's a PNG, I tried to make it a vector but gradients don't work too well.)
http://i.imgur.com/i9S3Evc.png


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 03, 2013, 12:17:32 AM
smeagol, if you ever need help on formatting, just PM me. I looked at two of the articles and they look great. I think ranlo hooked you up then.



His formatting was already spot-on. I just went through and verified with him that everything was on the up-and-up, :). FWIW, he has great topics as well!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 03, 2013, 03:32:45 AM
This would make a great Devtome article  :)

Thinking on investing my DVC vs. selling, I thought I would provide a little view of what one could expect for returns by buying shares at cryptostocks.com.

The four available DVC stocks are listed below. The "DVC" column below is an arbitrary number. DPS is dividends per share. ROI based on the last dividend distribution. DFreq is how often dividends are sent to shareholders.

Exchange               Ticker            DVC            Price          Shares               DPS                   ROI                    DFreq         Last Traded

Crypto::Stocks      P2PDVC        1000000   100.6        9940.357853      0.1000000       994.0357853    1-3x daily    8/2/13 2:44 AM
Crypto::Stocks      DVB             1000000   200           5000.000000      0.0090654        45.327000      7 days        7/31/2013 12:25
Crypto::Stocks      ASCMDVCPT  1000000   10,000.00    100.000000    28.8996195     2889.961953      7 days        8/1/2013 21:52
Crypto::Stocks      PYRPXYDVC   1000000   900           1111.111111     6.56905504    7298.950044      IPO (1)       7/13/2013 6:51

Reading the first entry would be like this: Cryptostocks ticker P2PDVC with 1 million DVC @ 100.6 DVC each, will give you 9940.357853 shares with an expected return of 0.1 DVC per share for a total of 994 DVC, distributed multiple times a day.

I know this is just a single shot at one moment, but if anyone is interested, I can provide averages based on the stocks distro history. I thought about charting it, but that might be a multi-day project.

*You might have to increase the size of your screen to make the table show correctly. I've tried to adjust the spacing to line up correctly. I do have this as an XML if anyone wants it.
*I have no contact with cryptostocks.com (no conflict of interest), so I have nothing to gain other than maybe promoting the one exchange which deals in DVC which might increase the value of my holdings.

The public document is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvoPQEtk-YKudHV5djhDdmtaRXp5QkFVa01YTWJ3SlE&usp=sharing (I didn't want to shorten it and risk losing anything). Feel free to enter your own number of DVC shares to check possible returns based on this data. Everything else is locked. Hopefully.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 03, 2013, 04:08:00 AM
So what are we doing to mark Devcoin's two year anniversary on August 5th?

I am so glad you mentioned this!

I've been working on a website about Bitcoins and Devcoins (for now, could expand into other currencies later).  It's called Creative Currencies and the url is http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc  I just set up my email list and was thinking of some ways to promote it and entice people to subscribe.  I think I might just hold some sort of DVC giveaway, choose one or two lucky subscribers, in honor of the anniversary.

That will depend on if I get it together in time...


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 03, 2013, 03:22:05 PM
So what are we doing to mark Devcoin's two year anniversary on August 5th?

Does anyone know how to create a coin flip site?  I want to make a devcoin flip site where if you lose, the profits are donated to charity, and if you win, you win!  I'm thinking about a 1% charity edge. :)

Here's what I have for the provably fair part.
I just started learning php, don't judge!  ;)
Code:
<?php
$number 
rand(01000000);
$hash hash('sha256''$number');
echo 
$hash;
?>


Title: Devtome is taking the piss now with UN Original content being claimed
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 03, 2013, 09:14:58 PM
Ok I am starting to get rather pissed off here and usually I don't get angry easily but more and more devtome seems to be paying out all the dvc to writers and the more i look the more there is not original content on there but it is being claimed as.

Here is a clear cut example...

User makalu has posted on his userpage : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:makalu
Original articles on a number of pages.

The one I was particularly interested in was of course the listing about ASCMDVCPT of which I help do the admin work for and have direct involement in... yet I see that the article http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=ascmdvcpt is just a copy paste of the listing I helped write that is on cryptostocks https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39

hey it only small articles i know but nothing has been added in terms of better content, and the work is NOT original

Either the admins have missed this or they are not doing their job properly... or the users are unaware of the difference between original content and collated content and NOT ALLOWED copy paste content. Or a combination of it all...

Admins responsible for checking content please respond to this post before Unthinkingbit does as that will just show to me that you are not doing the job required of you.  I have PM'd the 3 admins so they know about this post.

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: Icoin on August 03, 2013, 09:22:10 PM
Thinking on investing my DVC vs. selling, I thought I would provide a little view of what one could expect for returns by buying shares at cryptostocks.com.

The four available DVC stocks are listed below. The "DVC" column below is an arbitrary number. DPS is dividends per share. ROI based on the last dividend distribution. DFreq is how often dividends are sent to shareholders.

Exchange               Ticker            DVC            Price          Shares               DPS                   ROI                    DFreq         Last Traded

Crypto::Stocks      P2PDVC        1000000   100.6        9940.357853      0.1000000       994.0357853    1-3x daily    8/2/13 2:44 AM
Crypto::Stocks      DVB             1000000   200           5000.000000      0.0090654        45.327000      7 days        7/31/2013 12:25
Crypto::Stocks      ASCMDVCPT  1000000   10,000.00    100.000000    28.8996195     2889.961953      7 days        8/1/2013 21:52
Crypto::Stocks      PYRPXYDVC   1000000   900           1111.111111     6.56905504    7298.950044      IPO (1)       7/13/2013 6:51

Reading the first entry would be like this: Cryptostocks ticker P2PDVC with 1 million DVC @ 100.6 DVC each, will give you 9940.357853 shares with an expected return of 0.1 DVC per share for a total of 994 DVC, distributed multiple times a day.

I know this is just a single shot at one moment, but if anyone is interested, I can provide averages based on the stocks distro history. I thought about charting it, but that might be a multi-day project.

*You might have to increase the size of your screen to make the table show correctly. I've tried to adjust the spacing to line up correctly. I do have this as an XML if anyone wants it.
*I have no contact with cryptostocks.com (no conflict of interest), so I have nothing to gain other than maybe promoting the one exchange which deals in DVC which might increase the value of my holdings.

The public document is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvoPQEtk-YKudHV5djhDdmtaRXp5QkFVa01YTWJ3SlE&usp=sharing (I didn't want to shorten it and risk losing anything). Feel free to enter your own number of DVC shares to check possible returns based on this data. Everything else is locked. Hopefully.

Thanks for the file.
DVB is running since August 18, 2012
Douring the period till today, there was 45'670'084.80 DVC in dividends.
To have a objective report for all DVC projects and be able to compare real results, an api interconnected document is needed https://cryptostocks.com/api.
Would be great to have that chart on devtome :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 03, 2013, 10:08:56 PM
Ok I am starting to get rather pissed off here and usually I don't get angry easily but more and more devtome seems to be paying out all the dvc to writers and the more i look the more there is not original content on there but it is being claimed as.

Here is a clear cut example...

User makalu has posted on his userpage : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:makalu
Original articles on a number of pages.

The one I was particularly interested in was of course the listing about ASCMDVCPT of which I help do the admin work for and have direct involement in... yet I see that the article http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=ascmdvcpt is just a copy paste of the listing I helped write that is on cryptostocks https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39

hey it only small articles i know but nothing has been added in terms of better content, and the work is NOT original

Either the admins have missed this or they are not doing their job properly... or the users are unaware of the difference between original content and collated content and NOT ALLOWED copy paste content. Or a combination of it all...

Admins responsible for checking content please respond to this post before Unthinkingbit does as that will just show to me that you are not doing the job required of you.  I have PM'd the 3 admins so they know about this post.

FuzzyBear

Sending you a pm right now!


Title: Re: Devtome is taking the piss now with UN Original content being claimed
Post by: smeagol on August 03, 2013, 10:10:59 PM
Ok I am starting to get rather pissed off here and usually I don't get angry easily but more and more devtome seems to be paying out all the dvc to writers and the more i look the more there is not original content on there but it is being claimed as.

Here is a clear cut example...

User makalu has posted on his userpage : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:makalu
Original articles on a number of pages.

The one I was particularly interested in was of course the listing about ASCMDVCPT of which I help do the admin work for and have direct involement in... yet I see that the article http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=ascmdvcpt is just a copy paste of the listing I helped write that is on cryptostocks https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39

hey it only small articles i know but nothing has been added in terms of better content, and the work is NOT original

Either the admins have missed this or they are not doing their job properly... or the users are unaware of the difference between original content and collated content and NOT ALLOWED copy paste content. Or a combination of it all...

Admins responsible for checking content please respond to this post before Unthinkingbit does as that will just show to me that you are not doing the job required of you.  I have PM'd the 3 admins so they know about this post.

FuzzyBear

If I combined all of his small ebook articles into a larger one and edited it, would that qualify as Collated?
By the way, I've been making small (< 1000 words) articles, is that OK?

Thank you!

By the way, what do you think of this banner?
http://i.imgur.com/i9S3Evc.png


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 03, 2013, 10:14:11 PM
Ok I am starting to get rather pissed off here and usually I don't get angry easily but more and more devtome seems to be paying out all the dvc to writers and the more i look the more there is not original content on there but it is being claimed as.

Here is a clear cut example...

User makalu has posted on his userpage : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:makalu
Original articles on a number of pages.

The one I was particularly interested in was of course the listing about ASCMDVCPT of which I help do the admin work for and have direct involement in... yet I see that the article http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=ascmdvcpt is just a copy paste of the listing I helped write that is on cryptostocks https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39

hey it only small articles i know but nothing has been added in terms of better content, and the work is NOT original

Either the admins have missed this or they are not doing their job properly... or the users are unaware of the difference between original content and collated content and NOT ALLOWED copy paste content. Or a combination of it all...

Admins responsible for checking content please respond to this post before Unthinkingbit does as that will just show to me that you are not doing the job required of you.  I have PM'd the 3 admins so they know about this post.

FuzzyBear

If I combined all of his small ebook articles into a larger one and edited it, would that qualify as Collated?
By the way, I've been making small (< 1000 words) articles, is that OK?

Thank you!

Small articles are not an issue, so long as they are not stolen material and are not gibberish. The problem with the one linked above is that it is not his material to be taking credit for, yet he is trying to earn money off it.

Edit: just noticed the first question as well. No, you can't take their material, edit it and claim it as collated. Collated is for when you write an article based on another one, with quotes and such (SPORADICALLY). Basically it's the same rule as plagiarism. If it's plagiarism, it's wrong.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 03, 2013, 10:16:28 PM

Small articles are not an issue, so long as they are not stolen material and are not gibberish. The problem with the one linked above is that it is not his material to be taking credit for, yet he is trying to earn money off it.

Edit: just noticed the first question as well. No, you can't take their material, edit it and claim it as collated. Collated is for when you write an article based on another one, with quotes and such (SPORADICALLY). Basically it's the same rule as plagiarism. If it's plagiarism, it's wrong.

Ok, thank you for the clarification.  Now onto more writing!  :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 03, 2013, 10:18:33 PM

Small articles are not an issue, so long as they are not stolen material and are not gibberish. The problem with the one linked above is that it is not his material to be taking credit for, yet he is trying to earn money off it.

Edit: just noticed the first question as well. No, you can't take their material, edit it and claim it as collated. Collated is for when you write an article based on another one, with quotes and such (SPORADICALLY). Basically it's the same rule as plagiarism. If it's plagiarism, it's wrong.

Ok, thank you for the clarification.  Now onto more writing!  :)

Not a problem. As a heads-up, if you have any future questions you can send me a PM anytime. The same goes to anyone else who reads this (most already know, as I get a lot of PM's as it is, lol).


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 03, 2013, 10:44:34 PM
I suppose you *could* call it collated. But if it already exists verbatim and digitally anyway, what's the point? In my opinion, the same rules for copyright should apply. If the changes to an existing document are substantial enough to be worth a reprint, then it's not plagiarism, but there needs to be a demonstration of actual work in the text.

Example, the entry at http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=be_inspirated is an exact quote in full (not partial matches or a citation or quote) of a Google Book http://goo.gl/YFnW3u.

Source is not "original," the source is an exact duplicate of an existing source.

Is that plagarism or did the user write that? O.o


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 03, 2013, 10:47:58 PM
Ok I am starting to get rather pissed off here and usually I don't get angry easily but more and more devtome seems to be paying out all the dvc to writers and the more i look the more there is not original content on there but it is being claimed as.

Here is a clear cut example...

User makalu has posted on his userpage : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:makalu
Original articles on a number of pages.

The one I was particularly interested in was of course the listing about ASCMDVCPT of which I help do the admin work for and have direct involement in... yet I see that the article http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=ascmdvcpt is just a copy paste of the listing I helped write that is on cryptostocks https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39

hey it only small articles i know but nothing has been added in terms of better content, and the work is NOT original

Either the admins have missed this or they are not doing their job properly... or the users are unaware of the difference between original content and collated content and NOT ALLOWED copy paste content. Or a combination of it all...

Admins responsible for checking content please respond to this post before Unthinkingbit does as that will just show to me that you are not doing the job required of you.  I have PM'd the 3 admins so they know about this post.

FuzzyBear

If I combined all of his small ebook articles into a larger one and edited it, would that qualify as Collated?
By the way, I've been making small (< 1000 words) articles, is that OK?

Thank you!

Small articles are not an issue, so long as they are not stolen material and are not gibberish. The problem with the one linked above is that it is not his material to be taking credit for, yet he is trying to earn money off it.

Edit: just noticed the first question as well. No, you can't take their material, edit it and claim it as collated. Collated is for when you write an article based on another one, with quotes and such (SPORADICALLY). Basically it's the same rule as plagiarism. If it's plagiarism, it's wrong.

Thank you Ranlo,

Clarification here that it is the users who seem unclear about what clarifies as Original Content and what can be submitted as writing, as well as there will always be people who will try and cheat the system, but good to let them know that users and admins are checking peoples work regularly.  Thank you and I know you do a very good job as an admin so sorry I was a bit angry in my opening post on this issue.

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 03, 2013, 11:04:48 PM
Thank you Ranlo,

Clarification here that it is the users who seem unclear about what clarifies as Original Content and what can be submitted as writing, as well as there will always be people who will try and cheat the system, but good to let them know that users and admins are checking peoples work regularly.  Thank you and I know you do a very good job as an admin so sorry I was a bit angry in my opening post on this issue.

FuzzyBear

Not a problem; I completely understand! I think what I may end up doing is writing out an in-depth rule listing that gives examples of what is and is not allowed. We can use it as a "read this first" and maybe even add some quiz questions or something to make sure people have read it before they make any article postings. This would be a great way to clarify things people seem to not quite grasp the concept of, as well as show us that people who break the rules did so 100% willingly.

I'll need a little while to come up with a good format and figure out exactly how I want to handle it, but I think it will be a valuable asset.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 04, 2013, 12:42:26 AM
I suppose you *could* call it collated. But if it already exists verbatim and digitally anyway, what's the point? In my opinion, the same rules for copyright should apply. If the changes to an existing document are substantial enough to be worth a reprint, then it's not plagiarism, but there needs to be a demonstration of actual work in the text.

Example, the entry at http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=be_inspirated is an exact quote in full (not partial matches or a citation or quote) of a Google Book http://goo.gl/YFnW3u.

Source is not "original," the source is an exact duplicate of an existing source.

Is that plagarism or did the user write that? O.o

It can be two different issues.

One is plagiarism, with intent (and arguably even without conscious thought) to distribute another work as your own.

The other is original material, but included in Devtome without the proper citation to existing versions. I was guilty of the latter when I published my own work that existed elsewhere, but I was not clear when I cited the source. I had just left it as "Source: Original" but I changed that to "laos_file - Source: Book Review, Laos File by Dale Dye, WordPress" and now the problem is removed.

I was guilty of violating the first in a way also...I wrote a book about ten years ago. At the time, some of the materials I used were incredibly difficult to find even for researchers in the field of study. I located copies eventually, transcribed them and then included them as appendices in my book. Well, it's the internet, right? So, within days of posting that book to Devtome, an eagled-eye Tomer must have scanned it. The problem with that is that I was accused of a 100% copy of someone else's work. Well it wasn't. It was about 30 pages of a 300 page book, or so. Material from an article that just couldn't easily be located. And, I did provide citations of those sources within the document so that there would be no confusion of me claiming other's work as my own. My reasoning was accepted by the Devtome community. I offered to remove all the appendices if anyone had even one issue with it remaining. Someone did. So they are gone.

That's the background on how I'm looking at the issue. Sometimes it just has to go case by case, but sometimes it can be pretty clear: If you wrote it elsewhere, just include that information. If it's collated, then say so. But if it already exists *and* it's by someone else? Well then I think that crosses the line.

Thank for the explanation.  This "Source: Original" and "Collated" stuff is confusing!


Title: Earnings According to Popularity
Post by: Unthinkingbit on August 04, 2013, 05:15:23 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and popular writers will get paid more per word than unpopular writers. From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

"The earnings are calculated according to the popularity of the writer's articles according to google analytics. The number of unique page views are divided by the number of words, then the root of that is taken and the roots of all the writers are normalized. That earnings multipler is multiplied by a goal seeked revenue neutralizing multiplier, then bounded from 0.75 to 1.25, and multiplied by the words to obtain the number of generation shares. To summarize, an unpopular writer will get 0.75 generation shares per thousand words, an average writer will get around a share per thousand words, and a popular writer will get 1.25 shares per thousand words."

The earnings multiplier is from the fourth root of the page views divided by the number of words and it is bounded to a narrow range this round because the payment rule has just been changed. In the next round, round 27, the earnings multiplier will be from the square root of the views over the words, and the multiplier will bounded to the wider range of 0.500001 to 1.499999. I'm using 0.500001 as a lower limit so that even unpopular writers who only write a share will at least get something after the multiplication and rounding. The unique page views will be taken from the four days just before the earnings calculation. The earnings multiplier is only calculated for the writers who have earned at least a share.

The most popular topics were cryptocurrencies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devtome_analytics_26.csv

After running the script, I found that some writers actually didn't get any page views at all, and got the minimum 0.75 multiplier:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

The above devtome_26 file is just there so people can see popularity and earnings multipliers, it will be calculated officially in about a week. Some of the new writers don't have any page views yet, but will when the script is run next week. For people who write books or screenplays, to boost their page views I recommend making a page for each chapter or scene.


Title: Re: Earnings According to Popularity
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 04, 2013, 08:14:54 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and popular writers will get paid more per word than unpopular writers. From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

"The earnings are calculated according to the popularity of the writer's articles according to google analytics. The number of unique page views are divided by the number of words, then the root of that is taken and the roots of all the writers are normalized. That earnings multipler is multiplied by a goal seeked revenue neutralizing multiplier, then bounded from 0.75 to 1.25, and multiplied by the words to obtain the number of generation shares. To summarize, an unpopular writer will get 0.75 generation shares per thousand words, an average writer will get around a share per thousand words, and a popular writer will get 1.25 shares per thousand words."

The earnings multiplier is from the fourth root of the page views divided by the number of words and it is bounded to a narrow range this round because the payment rule has just been changed. In the next round, round 27, the earnings multiplier will be from the square root of the views over the words, and the multiplier will bounded to the wider range of 0.500001 to 1.499999. I'm using 0.500001 as a lower limit so that even unpopular writers who only write a share will at least get something after the multiplication and rounding. The unique page views will be taken from the four days just before the earnings calculation. The earnings multiplier is only calculated for the writers who have earned at least a share.

The most popular topics were cryptocurrencies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devtome_analytics_26.csv

After running the script, I found that some writers actually didn't get any page views at all, and got the minimum 0.75 multiplier:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

The above devtome_26 file is just there so people can see popularity and earnings multipliers, it will be calculated officially in about a week. Some of the new writers don't have any page views yet, but will when the script is run next week. For people who write books or screenplays, to boost their page views I recommend making a page for each chapter or scene.


Nice :) i approve of all of this, thank you Unthinkingbit.

Just to highlight one potential issue, what happens if someone setup a bot to use proxies to just visit the pages with unique IP's how are we handling this??

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: Earnings According to Popularity
Post by: alyssa85 on August 04, 2013, 09:03:13 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and popular writers will get paid more per word than unpopular writers. From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

"The earnings are calculated according to the popularity of the writer's articles according to google analytics. The number of unique page views are divided by the number of words, then the root of that is taken and the roots of all the writers are normalized. That earnings multipler is multiplied by a goal seeked revenue neutralizing multiplier, then bounded from 0.75 to 1.25, and multiplied by the words to obtain the number of generation shares. To summarize, an unpopular writer will get 0.75 generation shares per thousand words, an average writer will get around a share per thousand words, and a popular writer will get 1.25 shares per thousand words."

The earnings multiplier is from the fourth root of the page views divided by the number of words and it is bounded to a narrow range this round because the payment rule has just been changed. In the next round, round 27, the earnings multiplier will be from the square root of the views over the words, and the multiplier will bounded to the wider range of 0.500001 to 1.499999. I'm using 0.500001 as a lower limit so that even unpopular writers who only write a share will at least get something after the multiplication and rounding. The unique page views will be taken from the four days just before the earnings calculation. The earnings multiplier is only calculated for the writers who have earned at least a share.

The most popular topics were cryptocurrencies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devtome_analytics_26.csv

After running the script, I found that some writers actually didn't get any page views at all, and got the minimum 0.75 multiplier:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

The above devtome_26 file is just there so people can see popularity and earnings multipliers, it will be calculated officially in about a week. Some of the new writers don't have any page views yet, but will when the script is run next week. For people who write books or screenplays, to boost their page views I recommend making a page for each chapter or scene.


Nice :) i approve of all of this, thank you Unthinkingbit.

Just to highlight one potential issue, what happens if someone setup a bot to use proxies to just visit the pages with unique IP's how are we handling this??

FuzzyBear

I think he's using Google Analytics, which filters out most bots. On my own websites the Google Analytics reported traffic is about 1/10th of what my cpanel reports (and that's because cpanel counts everything including bots). According to Google they only count traffic where their javascript is activated (most bots don't activate it). see https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1315708?hl=en

In addition Google Analytics shows referral data - so you can delve deeper to see where the traffic has come from (search engines, twitter, referrals from a blog etc). If an article is getting a lot of suspicious direct traffic, and analytics can't tell which browser and country it came from, it could be manually excluded.


Title: Re: Earnings According to Popularity
Post by: K1773R on August 04, 2013, 02:59:46 PM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and popular writers will get paid more per word than unpopular writers. From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

"The earnings are calculated according to the popularity of the writer's articles according to google analytics. The number of unique page views are divided by the number of words, then the root of that is taken and the roots of all the writers are normalized. That earnings multipler is multiplied by a goal seeked revenue neutralizing multiplier, then bounded from 0.75 to 1.25, and multiplied by the words to obtain the number of generation shares. To summarize, an unpopular writer will get 0.75 generation shares per thousand words, an average writer will get around a share per thousand words, and a popular writer will get 1.25 shares per thousand words."

The earnings multiplier is from the fourth root of the page views divided by the number of words and it is bounded to a narrow range this round because the payment rule has just been changed. In the next round, round 27, the earnings multiplier will be from the square root of the views over the words, and the multiplier will bounded to the wider range of 0.500001 to 1.499999. I'm using 0.500001 as a lower limit so that even unpopular writers who only write a share will at least get something after the multiplication and rounding. The unique page views will be taken from the four days just before the earnings calculation. The earnings multiplier is only calculated for the writers who have earned at least a share.

The most popular topics were cryptocurrencies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devtome_analytics_26.csv

After running the script, I found that some writers actually didn't get any page views at all, and got the minimum 0.75 multiplier:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

The above devtome_26 file is just there so people can see popularity and earnings multipliers, it will be calculated officially in about a week. Some of the new writers don't have any page views yet, but will when the script is run next week. For people who write books or screenplays, to boost their page views I recommend making a page for each chapter or scene.


Nice :) i approve of all of this, thank you Unthinkingbit.

Just to highlight one potential issue, what happens if someone setup a bot to use proxies to just visit the pages with unique IP's how are we handling this??

FuzzyBear

I think he's using Google Analytics, which filters out most bots. On my own websites the Google Analytics reported traffic is about 1/10th of what my cpanel reports (and that's because cpanel counts everything including bots). According to Google they only count traffic where their javascript is activated (most bots don't activate it). see https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1315708?hl=en

In addition Google Analytics shows referral data - so you can delve deeper to see where the traffic has come from (search engines, twitter, referrals from a blog etc). If an article is getting a lot of suspicious direct traffic, and analytics can't tell which browser and country it came from, it could be manually excluded.
be aware that many ppls browsing the web block these spywares ;) atleast in this section (ie, crypto)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 05, 2013, 01:38:51 AM
As an announcement (hopefully this isn't a problem; if it is, please let me know), I am opening myself up to editing jobs. I get so many pm's and send out so many in relation to editing, formatting, etc. that I figure now's the time to make that move! I'd love it if this could be added to the original post as well, if that is allowed.

Essentially what I am willing to offer up is full editing service in return for donations of DVC or anything else that is listed on my official writing thread here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233524.0). I can also help out with writing, although I don't quite know the rules on that in relation to Devtome so I think it's best to deal with writing elsewhere instead (being that Devtome is for things you personally own that turns in to a grey area). For example, blogs, informational websites, press releases, business proposals, etc.

I can handle just about any topic (off the top of my head I can't think of anything I wouldn't be able to; from these forums alone I've had jobs relating to Tor, cryptos, video games, news, business, press releases and a multitude of other things), so if you're interested in my services feel free to toss me a pm and we'll go from there!

I am also available for anything related to Devtome (things that are not job-related, such as questions and such) so you can toss me a pm at any time!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 01:57:29 AM
In marketing income, what qualifies as a post? Anything on the devcoin thread or an ad thread on bitcointalk about devcoin?


Title: Re: Earnings According to Popularity
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 02:06:39 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and popular writers will get paid more per word than unpopular writers. From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

"The earnings are calculated according to the popularity of the writer's articles according to google analytics. The number of unique page views are divided by the number of words, then the root of that is taken and the roots of all the writers are normalized. That earnings multipler is multiplied by a goal seeked revenue neutralizing multiplier, then bounded from 0.75 to 1.25, and multiplied by the words to obtain the number of generation shares. To summarize, an unpopular writer will get 0.75 generation shares per thousand words, an average writer will get around a share per thousand words, and a popular writer will get 1.25 shares per thousand words."

The earnings multiplier is from the fourth root of the page views divided by the number of words and it is bounded to a narrow range this round because the payment rule has just been changed. In the next round, round 27, the earnings multiplier will be from the square root of the views over the words, and the multiplier will bounded to the wider range of 0.500001 to 1.499999. I'm using 0.500001 as a lower limit so that even unpopular writers who only write a share will at least get something after the multiplication and rounding. The unique page views will be taken from the four days just before the earnings calculation. The earnings multiplier is only calculated for the writers who have earned at least a share.

The most popular topics were cryptocurrencies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devtome_analytics_26.csv

After running the script, I found that some writers actually didn't get any page views at all, and got the minimum 0.75 multiplier:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

The above devtome_26 file is just there so people can see popularity and earnings multipliers, it will be calculated officially in about a week. Some of the new writers don't have any page views yet, but will when the script is run next week. For people who write books or screenplays, to boost their page views I recommend making a page for each chapter or scene.


Does popularity roll over?
For example, if you are popular one round but not so much the next, will last round's popularity prevent you from going to low?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 05, 2013, 02:33:28 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and popular writers will get paid more per word than unpopular writers. From:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word

"The earnings are calculated according to the popularity of the writer's articles according to google analytics. The number of unique page views are divided by the number of words, then the root of that is taken and the roots of all the writers are normalized. That earnings multipler is multiplied by a goal seeked revenue neutralizing multiplier, then bounded from 0.75 to 1.25, and multiplied by the words to obtain the number of generation shares. To summarize, an unpopular writer will get 0.75 generation shares per thousand words, an average writer will get around a share per thousand words, and a popular writer will get 1.25 shares per thousand words."

The earnings multiplier is from the fourth root of the page views divided by the number of words and it is bounded to a narrow range this round because the payment rule has just been changed. In the next round, round 27, the earnings multiplier will be from the square root of the views over the words, and the multiplier will bounded to the wider range of 0.500001 to 1.499999. I'm using 0.500001 as a lower limit so that even unpopular writers who only write a share will at least get something after the multiplication and rounding. The unique page views will be taken from the four days just before the earnings calculation. The earnings multiplier is only calculated for the writers who have earned at least a share.

The most popular topics were cryptocurrencies:
https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/devtome_analytics_26.csv

After running the script, I found that some writers actually didn't get any page views at all, and got the minimum 0.75 multiplier:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

The above devtome_26 file is just there so people can see popularity and earnings multipliers, it will be calculated officially in about a week. Some of the new writers don't have any page views yet, but will when the script is run next week. For people who write books or screenplays, to boost their page views I recommend making a page for each chapter or scene.


Does popularity roll over?
For example, if you are popular one round but not so much the next, will last round's popularity prevent you from going to low?

Popularity is based only on the current round. For example, if you write an article and it is not popular during the time it's written but it does start spiking up in the next round, there is no real benefit to you in that. All that counts is what happens with the current articles in the current round.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 02:36:29 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and
Popularity is based only on the current round. For example, if you write an article and it is not popular during the time it's written but it does start spiking up in the next round, there is no real benefit to you in that. All that counts is what happens with the current articles in the current round.

Ok.  Now it'll be really hard for power writers (50k word +) to earn excessive amounts!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 05, 2013, 02:38:01 AM
We now have page view information from google analytics, so the devtome.py script has been modified and
Popularity is based only on the current round. For example, if you write an article and it is not popular during the time it's written but it does start spiking up in the next round, there is no real benefit to you in that. All that counts is what happens with the current articles in the current round.

Ok.  Now it'll be really hard for power writers (50k word +) to earn excessive amounts!

That it will. Honestly I don't like the new change, for multiple reasons, but it's not up to me and I respect the decision Unthinkingbit has made.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: worldinacoin on August 05, 2013, 03:12:46 AM
We have a lot of great writers and poets etc coming in, watch out for their works :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: K1773R on August 05, 2013, 06:17:09 AM
Popularity is based only on the current round. For example, if you write an article and it is not popular during the time it's written but it does start spiking up in the next round, there is no real benefit to you in that. All that counts is what happens with the current articles in the current round.
great, how long will it take until this is being abused? its getting worse and worse @ the dvc "scene"


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 09:04:02 PM
As suggested, I've put up an article about investing in DVC in lieu of trying to sell it. It includes sample earnings from the data at cryptostocks.com.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_stock_purchases

Is the d.evco.in site down?
I can't seem to download the devtome_earnings_26.csv file.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 05, 2013, 09:22:26 PM
interesting article here.... http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_stock_purchases

but think the calculation for P2PDVC 30 ROI is wrong... should be 0.31 on long months.... might want to get that changed / checked after the 1dvc apparently worth $10 fiasco

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 05, 2013, 09:26:12 PM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?  If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares.  It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.  

Something that needs to be considered.  Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work.  Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing.  Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better.  This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of.  3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.

The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

thanks!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 09:39:22 PM
I just made this banner, would I be eligible to earn marketing income if I used this on my site?
http://i.imgur.com/i9S3Evc.png

Or would it have to link to devtome?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 09:40:31 PM
As suggested, I've put up an article about investing in DVC in lieu of trying to sell it. It includes sample earnings from the data at cryptostocks.com.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_stock_purchases

Is the d.evco.in site down?
I can't seem to download the devtome_earnings_26.csv file.

Try this http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_block_explorer

The same thing happened to me today. http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin is working fine right now.

I still can't download the file!
I need it for an article.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 09:41:55 PM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?  If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares.  It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.  

Something that needs to be considered.  Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work.  Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing.  Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better.  This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of.  3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.

The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

thanks!

That's a good idea.  Would a script be able to write on users talk pages the stats during that month?
(like word count, shares, popularity, etc.)

Wikipedia has some of those.  (but they are known as bots)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 05, 2013, 09:52:17 PM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?  If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares.  It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.  

Something that needs to be considered.  Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work.  Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing.  Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better.  This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of.  3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.

The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

thanks!

There's an issue with this that goes deeper. Only a few days worth of marketing will count. I can throw traffic at the site at any point through my various sources, but because it's an external site I won't be able to sustain that. For example, I'd have no issue tossing out 10k+ views (LEGITIMATE TRAFFIC funneled from my news sites) over a period of a day or two, but after that it would drop off. So the marketing is worthless to me unless I were to hit it right at the perfect time. Otherwise I'd be funneling people over, getting absolutely nothing for it, and if it wasn't in that 4-day period where traffic counts, it'd have all been a waste of effort.

Furthermore, only 80k words count regardless, and there are a couple more things to point out to you:

1) The 0.75-1.25 is only for this round. Starting next round it's 0.5-1.5.
2) You can only do 80k words. So essentially your earnings, should you do all 80k, would be anywhere from 40-120 shares starting in the next round. Even if you wrote 500000 million words, you would still be bound to the same thing since it's still only going to count the 80k.

My marketing ability alone would be borderline exploitative with this new system, and that is one reason why I hate it. I have no problems with creating surges of traffic by carefully picking topics and marketing them myself, but those surges are short-lasted. Any long-term marketing I have to do is focused on keeping all of my sites in the ranking #1 and #2 in Google. I really don't like basically having to choose whether I want to sustain my own site or sustain another site in the hopes that I *might* be rewarded on the second; I much prefer guarantees. Furthermore, there are many methods where this could be exploited with non-legitimate traffic, and to the poster that brought up using Google Analytics... those are easily fooled.

Regardless, I'm sticking it out for this round and I will see whether or not it's worth continuing with its latest changes. If nothing else, I'll calm down on the writing and marketing (I've marketed the hell out of the main page since I joined the project, :p) and treat it as more of a side project.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 05, 2013, 09:55:39 PM
interesting article here.... http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_stock_purchases

but think the calculation for P2PDVC 30 ROI is wrong... should be 0.31 on long months.... might want to get that changed / checked after the 1dvc apparently worth $10 fiasco

FuzzyBear

Thank you. I'll check it out. Might be a day or two.
I have done the calculations for you and edited the article so we are not falsely advertising.  Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Ticker    DVC    Price           Shares           DPS (Last)   30-day Dividend   ROI %
DVB            1000000   185           5405.405405   0.0090654   0.03054563   0.00000305%
ASCMDVCPT    1000000   10000   100                   28.89961953   140.5292372   0.01405292%
P2PDVC            1000000   100.6   9940.357853   0.01                    0.401           0.0000401%
PYRPXYDVC    1000000   900            1111.111111   1111.111111   6.56905504   0.00065691%

I have not changed any of the text so you may want to edit that when you get a chance.

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 09:58:23 PM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?  If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares.  It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.  

Something that needs to be considered.  Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work.  Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing.  Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better.  This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of.  3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.

The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

thanks!

There's an issue with this that goes deeper. Only a few days worth of marketing will count. I can throw traffic at the site at any point through my various sources, but because it's an external site I won't be able to sustain that. For example, I'd have no issue tossing out 10k+ views (LEGITIMATE TRAFFIC funneled from my news sites) over a period of a day or two, but after that it would drop off. So the marketing is worthless to me unless I were to hit it right at the perfect time. Otherwise I'd be funneling people over, getting absolutely nothing for it, and if it wasn't in that 4-day period where traffic counts, it'd have all been a waste of effort.

Furthermore, only 80k words count regardless, and there are a couple more things to point out to you:

1) The 0.75-1.25 is only for this round. Starting next round it's 0.5-1.5.
2) You can only do 80k words. So essentially your earnings, should you do all 80k, would be anywhere from 40-120 shares starting in the next round. Even if you wrote 500000 million words, you would still be bound to the same thing since it's still only going to count the 80k.

My marketing ability alone would be borderline exploitative with this new system, and that is one reason why I hate it. I have no problems with creating surges of traffic by carefully picking topics and marketing them myself, but those surges are short-lasted. Any long-term marketing I have to do is focused on keeping all of my sites in the ranking #1 and #2 in Google. I really don't like basically having to choose whether I want to sustain my own site or sustain another site in the hopes that I *might* be rewarded on the second; I much prefer guarantees. Furthermore, there are many methods where this could be exploited with non-legitimate traffic, and to the poster that brought up using Google Analytics... those are easily fooled.

Regardless, I'm sticking it out for this round and I will see whether or not it's worth continuing with its latest changes. If nothing else, I'll calm down on the writing and marketing (I've marketed the hell out of the main page since I joined the project, :p) and treat it as more of a side project.

How can you get TEN THOUSAND views?  Wow!
Also, I've been having a bit of a writer's block.  Any interesting topics to write about?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 05, 2013, 10:10:14 PM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?  If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares.  It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like. 

Something that needs to be considered.  Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work.  Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing.  Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better.  This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of.  3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.

The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

thanks!

There's an issue with this that goes deeper. Only a few days worth of marketing will count. I can throw traffic at the site at any point through my various sources, but because it's an external site I won't be able to sustain that. For example, I'd have no issue tossing out 10k+ views (LEGITIMATE TRAFFIC funneled from my news sites) over a period of a day or two, but after that it would drop off. So the marketing is worthless to me unless I were to hit it right at the perfect time. Otherwise I'd be funneling people over, getting absolutely nothing for it, and if it wasn't in that 4-day period where traffic counts, it'd have all been a waste of effort.

Furthermore, only 80k words count regardless, and there are a couple more things to point out to you:

1) The 0.75-1.25 is only for this round. Starting next round it's 0.5-1.5.
2) You can only do 80k words. So essentially your earnings, should you do all 80k, would be anywhere from 40-120 shares starting in the next round. Even if you wrote 500000 million words, you would still be bound to the same thing since it's still only going to count the 80k.

My marketing ability alone would be borderline exploitative with this new system, and that is one reason why I hate it. I have no problems with creating surges of traffic by carefully picking topics and marketing them myself, but those surges are short-lasted. Any long-term marketing I have to do is focused on keeping all of my sites in the ranking #1 and #2 in Google. I really don't like basically having to choose whether I want to sustain my own site or sustain another site in the hopes that I *might* be rewarded on the second; I much prefer guarantees. Furthermore, there are many methods where this could be exploited with non-legitimate traffic, and to the poster that brought up using Google Analytics... those are easily fooled.

Regardless, I'm sticking it out for this round and I will see whether or not it's worth continuing with its latest changes. If nothing else, I'll calm down on the writing and marketing (I've marketed the hell out of the main page since I joined the project, :p) and treat it as more of a side project.

How can you get TEN THOUSAND views?  Wow!
Also, I've been having a bit of a writer's block.  Any interesting topics to write about?

I have sites that get more than that a day easily, :p. I'm an SEO guru though so that plays a huge role in it.

And to answer your question... I really can't help there. Writer's block sucks! When I hit that point I just take a break and do something else.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 05, 2013, 11:25:09 PM
I have sites that get more than that a day easily, :p. I'm an SEO guru though so that plays a huge role in it.

And to answer your question... I really can't help there. Writer's block sucks! When I hit that point I just take a break and do something else.

You should sell SEO stuff for DVC, as well as your editing.  There's some pretty big money in the business!  :)
By the way, can you give me a link to one of your sites?  Or a google query so I can see them?

Thanks!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 05, 2013, 11:27:54 PM
I have sites that get more than that a day easily, :p. I'm an SEO guru though so that plays a huge role in it.

And to answer your question... I really can't help there. Writer's block sucks! When I hit that point I just take a break and do something else.

You should sell SEO stuff for DVC, as well as your editing.  There's some pretty big money in the business!  :)
By the way, can you give me a link to one of your sites?  Or a google query so I can see them?

Thanks!

I'll PM you. As for selling editing service, I do that as it is, :p. I also do writing services, although I'd like to refrain from writing people's Devtome articles I think (I kind of view it as trying to skirt the rules by indirectly having multiple accounts). I really don't know what the rules would be on me selling articles based on people's requests like I do professionally as it is, so at some point I may try to get with the other admins to clarify that point and see what we can come up with.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: smeagol on August 06, 2013, 12:28:40 AM
I have sites that get more than that a day easily, :p. I'm an SEO guru though so that plays a huge role in it.

And to answer your question... I really can't help there. Writer's block sucks! When I hit that point I just take a break and do something else.

You should sell SEO stuff for DVC, as well as your editing.  There's some pretty big money in the business!  :)
By the way, can you give me a link to one of your sites?  Or a google query so I can see them?

Thanks!

I'll PM you. As for selling editing service, I do that as it is, :p. I also do writing services, although I'd like to refrain from writing people's Devtome articles I think (I kind of view it as trying to skirt the rules by indirectly having multiple accounts). I really don't know what the rules would be on me selling articles based on people's requests like I do professionally as it is, so at some point I may try to get with the other admins to clarify that point and see what we can come up with.

got your PM, thanks.

Also, has the d.evco.in site been fixed?  I still cannot view the receiver files!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 06, 2013, 12:57:27 AM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?  If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares.  It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.  

Something that needs to be considered.  Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work.  Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing.  Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better.  This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of.  3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.

The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

thanks!

There's an issue with this that goes deeper. Only a few days worth of marketing will count. I can throw traffic at the site at any point through my various sources, but because it's an external site I won't be able to sustain that. For example, I'd have no issue tossing out 10k+ views (LEGITIMATE TRAFFIC funneled from my news sites) over a period of a day or two, but after that it would drop off. So the marketing is worthless to me unless I were to hit it right at the perfect time. Otherwise I'd be funneling people over, getting absolutely nothing for it, and if it wasn't in that 4-day period where traffic counts, it'd have all been a waste of effort.

Furthermore, only 80k words count regardless, and there are a couple more things to point out to you:

1) The 0.75-1.25 is only for this round. Starting next round it's 0.5-1.5.
2) You can only do 80k words. So essentially your earnings, should you do all 80k, would be anywhere from 40-120 shares starting in the next round. Even if you wrote 500000 million words, you would still be bound to the same thing since it's still only going to count the 80k.

My marketing ability alone would be borderline exploitative with this new system, and that is one reason why I hate it. I have no problems with creating surges of traffic by carefully picking topics and marketing them myself, but those surges are short-lasted. Any long-term marketing I have to do is focused on keeping all of my sites in the ranking #1 and #2 in Google. I really don't like basically having to choose whether I want to sustain my own site or sustain another site in the hopes that I *might* be rewarded on the second; I much prefer guarantees. Furthermore, there are many methods where this could be exploited with non-legitimate traffic, and to the poster that brought up using Google Analytics... those are easily fooled.

Regardless, I'm sticking it out for this round and I will see whether or not it's worth continuing with its latest changes. If nothing else, I'll calm down on the writing and marketing (I've marketed the hell out of the main page since I joined the project, :p) and treat it as more of a side project.

Thanks for the more in depth explanation.  When you say "this round" do you mean round 26 or 27?  I'm hoping round 26 stays as it was before, so as not to switch midstream.

Yes, the rewarding for marketing does pose issues, which is why I pointed it out, and clearly you have thought of them as well.  I think it would be better to reward writing and marketing separately, especially since stories can grow in popularity weeks and months after they are written and paid for.  The other thing is that the sort of writing that attracts short term surges of traffic (i.e., stuff lots of people want to read) isn't necessarily going to be the same quality of writing that will last, but I guess that's been a problem for centuries (Mozart died a pauper and yet his music lives on).

I will have to decide as I go if this is workable for me.  I'm a decent writer and a terrible marketer, and I don't really have the time to do both.  Writing for the Devtome so far has been great because it rewarded my writing without depending on my ability to market it, which up to now has been unheard of.  But from the beginning I have viewed this as most likely a temporary opportunity--one to take full advantage of now and not take for granted will always be there.  The couple rounds I have gotten paid for have made a huge difference for me and I'm trying to use my DVC in a way that will make that positive difference continue even if the Devtome opportunity dries up for me.

One factor beyond anyone's control that will impact whether or not the new system is still worth it for me is the DVC/BTC exchange rate.  When the price of DVC is low, you want to be able to earn lots of them.  When the price is high, even earning just a few can go a long way.  But the way the rounds are paid for, you really can't know at the time you're writing what the exchange rate will be in a month to six weeks, so my goal has been to get as many as I could.

Not sure what I will do moving forward, but I will probably have to try writing under the new system to see how it plays out, and then decide if I want to keep going.


Title: Earnings Calculations
Post by: Unthinkingbit on August 06, 2013, 01:13:08 AM
My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views.  I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it.  Correct?

The worth is based on your total unique page views over your total number of words. That determines the earnings multiplier for all your new words. The earnings multiplier is for the author, not the articles. The assumption is that if the author wrote popular articles in the past, their new articles or words will also be popular.

Quote
The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this.  So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round.  I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.

You can download the example file from:
https://raw.github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/master/devtome_26.csv

then open it in a spreadsheet. The Bounded Earnings Multiplier column is currently second to last, and the Earnings column is the last.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 06, 2013, 01:15:23 AM
Collation.

I just read http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_writer_rules_read_me_first and found it interesting.

However, I wonder if there is a change in terminology required here. Collation means ordering or sorting. The way I see it described in the Devtome entry doesn't really mesh with sorting. The Devtome entry seems to be defining the use of "citations," which is entirely different from creating order out of other works. Citations are perfectly normal and happen quite frequently, especially in more academic writing where if you are not citing other authorities, then you aren't engaging existing scholarship. A citation is just not the same as collation and certainly is not a category of materials by itself.

IMO, the collation of materials is the refining, extensive editing or the creating of order out of other works. I would also like to suggest that collated (or whatever term is used) material should not exist elsewhere online. We're trying to create better references and resources, right? Making things available for the community at large for common access and improving on materials that are not in digital form. A collection of materials that has no fee attached and can be read or sent digitally.

Just some thoughts.

Thank you for your input! That wasn't meant to be publicly read yet; I sent it off to the other admins to check out and verify before I push it out. With that said, maybe there's a bit of confusion on my part as well. My understanding is that it would have to be something that is written about someone else's work, using quotes from them and such, as doing things like just fixing grammar and spelling in articles has been deemed as against the rules. Here's what I based it on:

"Collated work, which is largely based on another open source article, is also counted, although with a weighting of currently 0.3. The collated work can not be simply a copy of another article, it must have improvements and the type of improvements must be listed in the invoice."

I think we need to get this clarified so I can modify the rule listing if necessary. Also, feel free to pm me if you feel there are any other inconsistencies.


Title: Button and Symbol Bounties
Post by: Unthinkingbit on August 06, 2013, 01:23:51 AM
..
I looked at the bounty page here http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now and it says that there is a bounty for a logo/symbol and a button (3/5 and 1/5 of a share respectively).

What it says is:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now#button

"One fifth of a share for another devcoin button."

and
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now#symbol

"3/5 of a share for a devcoin symbol."

What you drew is a logo, if you wish you can convert it to a button and get one fifth of a share. Marticps won the logo vote last month, so the logo awards were ended.


Title: Anniversary
Post by: Unthinkingbit on August 06, 2013, 01:35:50 AM
So what are we doing to mark Devcoin's two year anniversary on August 5th?

I vote we all flock to the bitcoin subreddit on the day and tip random people 10 cents worth (about 1667 devcoins at the moment) - there is an altcoin tipbot that is devcoin enabled - see http://www.reddit.com/r/ALTcointip/comments/1esl7u/altcointip_bot_now_live/

has anyone got any other ideas?


and Wiser wrote:

So what are we doing to mark Devcoin's two year anniversary on August 5th?

I am so glad you mentioned this!

I've been working on a website about Bitcoins and Devcoins (for now, could expand into other currencies later).  It's called Creative Currencies and the url is http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc  I just set up my email list and was thinking of some ways to promote it and entice people to subscribe.  I think I might just hold some sort of DVC giveaway, choose one or two lucky subscribers, in honor of the anniversary.

That will depend on if I get it together in time...

I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?


Title: Re: Anniversary
Post by: wiser on August 06, 2013, 02:53:21 AM
I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?

OK, I'll bite.  I'm offering some DVCs to everyone who subscribes to my list (and provides a DVC address) before midnight Eastern Standard Time August 6, 2013.  I'll post a thread in the alternative crypto section of this forum and the newbie section.

Here's the article with the subscription form:  http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc/2013/08/05/in-honor-of-devcoins-second-anniversary/

Edit:  I also posted this on the Devtome:  http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=in_honor_of_devcoins_second_anniversary


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 06, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?

OK, I'll bite.  I'm offering some DVCs to everyone who subscribes to my list (and provides a DVC address) before midnight Eastern Standard Time August 6, 2013.  I'll post a thread in the alternative crypto section of this forum and the newbie section.

Here's the article with the subscription form:  http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc/2013/08/05/in-honor-of-devcoins-second-anniversary/

Joined! What's the inputs.io address needed for btw?


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 06, 2013, 03:05:30 AM
I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?

OK, I'll bite.  I'm offering some DVCs to everyone who subscribes to my list (and provides a DVC address) before midnight Eastern Standard Time August 6, 2013.  I'll post a thread in the alternative crypto section of this forum and the newbie section.

Here's the article with the subscription form:  http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc/2013/08/05/in-honor-of-devcoins-second-anniversary/

Joined! What's the inputs.io address needed for btw?

At some point (and I'm moving slowly on this) I was thinking I'd offer random "prizes" in BTC and DVC for things like posting good comments and other random things.  I don't want to have a faucet, per se, but figured it might be fun to occasionally "bless" a subscriber with something, and inputs.io makes it easy to send small BTC amounts around without the transaction fees :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: ranlo on August 06, 2013, 03:21:34 AM
I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?

OK, I'll bite.  I'm offering some DVCs to everyone who subscribes to my list (and provides a DVC address) before midnight Eastern Standard Time August 6, 2013.  I'll post a thread in the alternative crypto section of this forum and the newbie section.

Here's the article with the subscription form:  http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc/2013/08/05/in-honor-of-devcoins-second-anniversary/

Joined! What's the inputs.io address needed for btw?

At some point (and I'm moving slowly on this) I was thinking I'd offer random "prizes" in BTC and DVC for things like posting good comments and other random things.  I don't want to have a faucet, per se, but figured it might be fun to occasionally "bless" a subscriber with something, and inputs.io makes it easy to send small BTC amounts around without the transaction fees :)

Awesome idea. Thanks!


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 06, 2013, 03:56:34 AM
Awesome idea. Thanks!

I actually got the idea of using inputs.io from you--I clicked through the link in your signature line and liked what I saw :)


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: K1773R on August 06, 2013, 06:16:07 AM
As suggested, I've put up an article about investing in DVC in lieu of trying to sell it. It includes sample earnings from the data at cryptostocks.com.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_stock_purchases

Is the d.evco.in site down?
I can't seem to download the devtome_earnings_26.csv file.

Try this http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_block_explorer

The same thing happened to me today. http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin is working fine right now.

I still can't download the file!
I need it for an article.
get the reciever files from here: http://devcoin.darkgamex.ch/


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 06, 2013, 03:31:33 PM
Quote
I have done the calculations for you and edited the article so we are not falsely advertising.  Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Ticker    DVC    Price           Shares           DPS (Last)   30-day Dividend   ROI %
DVB            1000000   185           5405.405405   0.0090654   0.03054563   0.00000305%
ASCMDVCPT    1000000   10000   100                   28.89961953   140.5292372   0.01405292%
P2PDVC            1000000   100.6   9940.357853   0.01                    0.401           0.0000401%
PYRPXYDVC    1000000   900            1111.111111   1111.111111   6.56905504   0.00065691%

I have not changed any of the text so you may want to edit that when you get a chance.

FuzzyBear


Thanks! I went ahead and got to it today. I've updated the explanation and dropped the ROI column (since it's only the same info in the 30-day dividend column moved a few spots to the right). I changed the description to fit. The 30-day dividend column also has additional explanation to show, for example, that one share of P2PDVC will give 0.371029 ''per share'' so that in the example, the investor will have 0.371029*9940.357853 shares, which is much more significant than what I had there previously. I may have had the earlier version mixed up with another chart I was doing. Thanks for the catch.

Seriously dude... please check your maths.... you are soo far out it is unreal.

Starting to think you are either running the P2PDVC listing or you are a shrill for it and just trying to falsely advertise this as being the best investment.

FuzzyBear

if you calculating the 30 day dividends on ASCMDVCPT I make it:
28.93082151 + 27.17240263 + 36.57980507 + 47.87741000 + 28.89961953 = 169.46005874 for last 30 days dividends....

You are saying you have 100 shares in the stock... that means you got paid 16,946.005874 DVC

slight difference from the 28.93082151 you are listing.

P2PDVC calculating dividends as of 2nd August
I made it total dividends paid out of 0.401 DVC for 30 days
you say you have 9940.3578530 stock.... and as fractions of stocks not possible call it 9940
9940 * 0.401 = 3985.94DVC payout....

I have not checked the other listings, but PYPROXYDVC has only ever paid out one dividend so that not too hard, and DVB been up and down in dividends payout so not run the numbers....


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: FuzzyBear on August 06, 2013, 03:39:10 PM
FuzzyBear,

Where is the math incorrect? Point it out instead of just flying off and getting angry.
Updated my post with figures and calculations... perhaps show your working on the site... or at least how each column is calculated that way you can be sure it is correct and that others are reading it correctly.

Sorry if I "Flew off and got angry" but you failed to show your working and have clearly posted incorrect data twice now... Need I remind anyone of the backlash that came about from someone falsely advertising dvc at $10 a coin?? It only brings bad reputation to the coin, community and devtome, so sorry but I will take a hard line with this.

FuzzyBear


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: twobits on August 06, 2013, 03:45:23 PM
FuzzyBear,

Where is the math incorrect? Point it out instead of just flying off and getting angry.

I have to tend to agree with FuzzyBear.   You consistently get the math wrong and always in favor of the one bond in the group.  You do not even point out the differences between bonds and stocks and how valuations of them tend to be treated differently as well.

You wrote the article,  you get dvc for doing that.  Others should not have to keep pointing out you have the basic math glaringly wrong and inconsistent.   You should show your work so we can see where you are getting things so far off.   At least three times now you have created a very misleading chart.  Sad thing is sales of the asset you are pumping have gone up from it.   Guess your obvious errors are not as obvious to all as I would have thought.


Title: Re: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated
Post by: wiser on August 06, 2013, 04:07:08 PM
As a general FYI, I have bought into the P2PDVC bond over the past month at a range of 100.4 to 100.6 a share.  The price hasn't changed all that much.  I see no evidence that it's being pumped.  I'm not super th