|
Title: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: bbc.reporter on November 02, 2017, 01:50:28 AM Call me a contrarian or a bear but I still agree with Joe Saluzzi's fear in the CME group's listing of a bitcoin derivative. I reckon that it will be the Wall Street bankers who will be bringing a real crisis in the cryptospace. They will come in and suck more money from the community, faster than the ICO scammers.
Those bankers will be here to take our money, not to help bitcoin or other cyptocoins. https://image.ibb.co/neMMiG/t1.png https://image.ibb.co/crTCqw/t2.png Saluzzi told CNBC that he liked the concept of Bitcoin, but has a problem with the idea “that on Wall Street the innovators are trying to package something up and put a derivative label on it when they really don’t know what’s underneath.” “It reminds me of the financial crisis all over again,” he said. Read the article http://fortune.com/2017/11/01/bitcoin-6600-high-cme-futures/ Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: rjbtc2017 on November 02, 2017, 02:36:45 AM "Those bankers will be here to take our money, not to help bitcoin or other cyptocoins." I definitely agree on this statement, they do have a lot of power and influence to manipulate the Price of Bitcoin unlike the ICOs and other Articles that encourages FUD. If these New High Prices will DROP and DIP after Big businesses open gates for Bitcoin then we got a real problem. These Big Businesses will take advantages on their power and influence to generate profit from Bitcoin from small investors worldwide(DIP if it will happen).
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on November 02, 2017, 02:56:28 AM I don't trust bankers or wall street guys either, but stuff like this is inevitable. And I wouldn't project a negative outcome just yet. Wall street getting involved could drive up the price to even more insane levels than we're seeing now. And I'm familiar with the housing/mortgage crisis, and I think that comparison is stretching it just a bit too far. People were defaulting on those mortgages because they got sucked into buying houses they never had a chance of affording. Then it became all about the crazy mortgage backed securities that banks created. How's that going to happen with bitcoin, exactly?
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Biodom on November 02, 2017, 03:07:52 AM They will make bitcoin CDOs, LOL.
Remember the mantra "housing never goes down in price"? Imagine some WS types saying this about btc in a year or two and then 'wrapping" something around btc? Shivers... Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: bbc.reporter on November 02, 2017, 03:21:30 AM @Biodom. The problem would be what they wrap bitcoin with in the CDO. If they take random cryptocoin scams, placed together in a tranche with some bitcoin, then rate it as a class A investment, then there shall be problems.
It is was what happened in the housing bubble. They wrapped good mortgages with the bad ones and bribed the rating agencies to rate them as class A investments. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: UnDerDoG81 on November 02, 2017, 03:26:50 AM So is the wall street already in or will they enter later? Is that Pump coming from them?
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: tweetbit on November 02, 2017, 04:34:59 AM The idea is valid, bankers will not just solve they’re insecurity’s to bitcoin by sitting down. That scenario is more likely to happen because if you can’t destroyed it why not benefits from it. In the first place I hope it won’t happen, I’m a little worried thinking about this but then who cares anyway. If it goes down we have chance to push it up again.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: pugman on November 02, 2017, 06:30:38 AM Did people seriously think that the stock market will behave in a friendly manner towards bitcoin? Sorry the answer is going to be no. People should have understood that the very moment Jamie Dimon laid down his dirty tricks. Even Warren Buffet is not a big fan of bitcoin. All the hype that caused people to buy bitcoin which is leading it's price towards 7000$ is also going to go in vain just like the hype of bitcoin gold which also lead to an ultimate failure.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: buwaytress on November 02, 2017, 07:10:47 AM @Biodom. The problem would be what they wrap bitcoin with in the CDO. If they take random cryptocoin scams, placed together in a tranche with some bitcoin, then rate it as a class A investment, then there shall be problems. It is was what happened in the housing bubble. They wrapped good mortgages with the bad ones and bribed the rating agencies to rate them as class A investments. The problem... well there are so many problems! We've now seen how the big bankers have slowly turned perceptions from outright fear of Bitcoin, to curiosity and now greed, keen to take advantage of the next hottest money spinner. Across the continent in the UK, a company's stocked jumped more than 400% just by the addition of the word "Blockchain" to their name. Just two days ago, an old classmate of mine, a particularly prominent figure in his business circle in the oil and gas industry, actually asked about Bitcoin. Long story short, Bitcoin's suddenly transformed into a legitimate commodity simply by its recent new packagings the likes of which you've just shared. And so all this new money is flooding in. We can't do much about it. They may yet push current climbs to the bubble they all accused Bitcoin being. I'm loathe to celebrate this new ATH when the best I'd hoped for only two months ago was $5k. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: bbc.reporter on November 03, 2017, 01:32:14 AM @buwaytress. I fear that the people behind the CME group and Wall Street will take bitcoin in a bigger and a more unsustainable bubble, and then make it crash to the lowest of lows.
I also reckon that they are better in manipulating markets all around the world than any bitcoin whale can. At least with some bitcoin whales, they understand and care about the development of the cryptospace itself, Wall Street does not. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: tomahawk9 on November 03, 2017, 03:42:01 AM @buwaytress. I fear that the people behind the CME group and Wall Street will take bitcoin in a bigger and a more unsustainable bubble, and then make it crash to the lowest of lows. "Wall Street" and "Bitcoin", those two words in one sentence make me feel...uneasy.I also reckon that they are better in manipulating markets all around the world than any bitcoin whale can. At least with some bitcoin whales, they understand and care about the development of the cryptospace itself, Wall Street does not. But i'm with you on this one, these big financial companies will try to manipulate the btc market so that they can attract money away from the original market. Also, from the article: "the trading of futures contracts further facilitates speculation as everything is done in cash". So people will spent money on this market but it won't help raise the price of bitcoin (since no bitcoins are being purchased), sounds to me like this is just a tool to suppress the btc price and keep their fiat ponzi alive...thank you bankers. And about CME group and bitcoin futures, to some people this is big news because it will help bitcoin go 'mainstream' as a legitimate and legal asset to invest in. To me, I'm not 100% sure this is good news for Bitcoin. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: iamTom123 on November 03, 2017, 04:43:11 AM I can also feel the sense of some fear in here all because we know how Wall Street played that big role in many financial crisis in the past. One fear is that this can stimulate more speculations and of course more volatility. However, I think that since Bitcoin has already evolved and is about to enter the mainstream this thing can be inevitable. Sooner or later a similar investment tool involving Bitcoin would be introduced into the open market. All we can do is hope that things would be be fine and this new development can be working good for the future of cryptocurrency. Hope that Bitcoin can proved itself so resilient when futures can be operating already in the market.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: yndye on November 03, 2017, 08:24:57 AM "Those bankers will be here to take our money, not to help bitcoin or other cyptocoins." I definitely agree on this statement, they do have a lot of power and influence to manipulate the Price of Bitcoin unlike the ICOs and other Articles that encourages FUD. If these New High Prices will DROP and DIP after Big businesses open gates for Bitcoin then we got a real problem. These Big Businesses will take advantages on their power and influence to generate profit from Bitcoin from small investors worldwide(DIP if it will happen). With their power, they can make bitcoins price go lower or higher. The ICOs and FUDs just depend on the people who will either let themselves be fooled by the manipulations but when it comes to wall street, it would be a different story. They have the power to crush crypto because they are backed by government and even if the small time investors would try to push it higher, maybe there would be a time when there's no steam anymore to push it higher. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: DaMut on November 03, 2017, 09:15:20 AM right now we have a problem with scammers and shit ICOs,
and another problem will happen in the near future with CME group or whatever they called it. for now Bitcoin is very very easy to get manipulated by people, with that alone we can see a big weakness in Cryptocurrency,they can push it to the sky and they can press it also. just see how far it will be ? but i bet there will be another huge run caused by them in upcoming months, and i hope it'll not be the last one,at least with them Bitcoin will be a bubble in the near future i believe. winter is coming Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: fabiorem on November 03, 2017, 10:17:17 AM So is the wall street already in or will they enter later? Is that Pump coming from them? They are already in. Everytime a whale dump his coins, a shark buys them. That's why the price is going higher so quick, despite the B2X drama. Dimon was even sued by the swedish state for market manipulation, because JPM was buying bitcoins at Nasdaq Stockholm, at the same time he said that bitcoin is a "fraud". They will surely spike the price higher, it can come to six digits by next year. But they can crash it afterwards, doing to it the same they did to gold and silver. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: alyssa85 on November 03, 2017, 03:41:33 PM I think people forget that with futures, you can SHORT the price as well as go long.
So many speculators are assuming that if bitcoin is traded on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange the price will go up - but it could easily be an opportunity for those bankers who hate bitcoin to short the life out of it. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: cynical on November 03, 2017, 03:49:29 PM I mentioned this CME group in a different post,
they will treat Bitcoin like a pure asset to trade the life out of it and get PROFIT, which is of course not what bitcoin was intended for. could the future hold an event where all true bitcoin people to move to an alternative, like BCH, BTG or B2X ? and leave bitcoin to the traders ? just throwing that out ??? Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Pap0u on November 03, 2017, 03:52:35 PM https://www.tradingview.com/u/Papou/
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: HeRetiK on November 03, 2017, 04:15:35 PM I love how people are getting worried about how Wall Street could tarnish Bitcoin's reputation. And rightfully so, unfortunately. Oh how times have changed.
It looks like the Bitcoin experiment is entering the next phase, let's see how it prevails. My positive thinking side thinks it's great that there are finally financial derivatives to hedge crypto risks. My realistic thinking side is moaning at the thought of investment bankers having found yet another gambling playground to lose other people's money in while claiming to be experts in their field. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Pab on November 03, 2017, 04:28:15 PM I also dont like that great news,to add more Chicago Option Board Exchange wants to join party
At least two platorm will be better than just the one What is that option market,just one big casino gambling with betting on bitcoin future price,betting with cash It has nothing with btc,most that big option bettors will not learn what crypto is all above Our secret weapon against them will be doge,we will crash them with doge hedge Will than wall street add doge to his list,joke of century Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on November 03, 2017, 11:03:30 PM I love how people are getting worried about how Wall Street could tarnish Bitcoin's reputation. And rightfully so, unfortunately. Oh how times have changed. Yeah, I know what you mean. I've been thinking about this for some time now, and I think this is the first I've run across it in a thread here. For the longest time, everyone has of course been wanting price to continue to go up, and many are looking forward to the big financial institutions getting involved, as that will like contribute to a further price increase. However, with all of their money will come all of their power and influence. Everyone complains about how they manipulate all of the other financial markets of the world. Cryptos will be their next target.Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: ReLieD on November 04, 2017, 05:29:39 PM Dude this is just a small rise you can say . I don't think that bankers can manipulate much of this . But basically I feel that if wall Street and involve in Bitcoin then you will see all new level of Bitcoin.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on November 04, 2017, 06:52:31 PM Dude this is just a small rise you can say . I don't think that bankers can manipulate much of this . But basically I feel that if wall Street and involve in Bitcoin then you will see all new level of Bitcoin. It's not huge yet, but I think their power over bitcoin is growing. The more they become interested in it, the more influence they will have over it, for better or for worse. Right now, it's simply a question of whether or not the big banks will get involved. The more they talk about doing so, the more bitcoin's price is going to go up because that will further legitimize bitcoin and increase adoption, not to mention bring in millions--maybe even billions--of dollars in investment money. The more the banks shun it, the more negative the impact will be on price, now that more people are thinking that big banks will get involved at some point in the near future.Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Hyperme.sh on November 04, 2017, 07:41:56 PM Call me a contrarian or a bear but I still agree with Joe Saluzzi's fear in the CME group's listing of a bitcoin derivative. I reckon that it will be the Wall Street bankers who will be bringing a real crisis in the cryptospace. They will come in and suck more money from the community, faster than the ICO scammers. Those bankers will be here to take our money, not to help bitcoin or other cyptocoins. https://image.ibb.co/neMMiG/t1.png https://image.ibb.co/crTCqw/t2.png Saluzzi told CNBC that he liked the concept of Bitcoin, but has a problem with the idea “that on Wall Street the innovators are trying to package something up and put a derivative label on it when they really don’t know what’s underneath.” “It reminds me of the financial crisis all over again,” he said. Read the article http://fortune.com/2017/11/01/bitcoin-6600-high-cme-futures/ +1. You’ve really upped the quality of your posts lately. Goldman Sachs (according to Brock Pierce (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2268216.msg24041175#msg24041175)) is apparently involved with the $2 billion EOS token sale. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: 1Referee on November 04, 2017, 08:51:23 PM Everyone complains about how they manipulate all of the other financial markets of the world. Cryptos will be their next target. Complaining is pointless, because if you're completely honest to yourself, you would know that when institutions enter this market with their war load of billions, they will completely change this market. Even current whales that are pushing the market back and forth are nothing more than a joke compared to these entities. Bitcoin and crypto in general is no longer a joke or fun/hobby thing like some people here think it is - these times came to an end a few years ago. It may sound harsh to some people, but Bitcoin is indeed nothing more than the next thing for them to bank on. They will chew on this market, and once there is no more taste left, they spit it out and move on to whatever else they find interesting enough. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Lompe on November 04, 2017, 09:28:21 PM Of course they come into the market to make money, and what is wrong about that ? That is just what about any trader makes. If you are not trading bitcoins yourself on this platform, you risk absolutely nothing. And this being said, I am not sure there is any actual risk, of any nature with those newcomers.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Yuuto on November 04, 2017, 10:49:04 PM I mean it's both sides. They could definitely drive up the price further with the implementation of a derivative for bitcoin or whatnot. However it'll definitely centralize the price manipulation that we already see from whales.
In the end, there is really nothing we can do. This is one of the costs of going mainstream. It's too early to judge, but even if BTC does go up, the more it goes up the harder the crash is going to be in the end. Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: CoinsCoinsEverywhere on November 05, 2017, 06:07:37 AM Of course they come into the market to make money, and what is wrong about that ? That is just what about any trader makes. If you are not trading bitcoins yourself on this platform, you risk absolutely nothing. And this being said, I am not sure there is any actual risk, of any nature with those newcomers. You're talking about the futures contract that the CME group is going to introduce, correct? First, that is a pure derivative. There will be no actual bitcoin trading through CME. But that doesn't mean that it won't have a huge impact on bitcoin. A bitcoin futures contract will allow large financial institutions to easily take a particular side (price will go up or it will go down). Once they do that, they could make up all kinds of news/FUD to manipulate bitcoin into going the direction they want it to go so they make money on their contracts. They might also find ways to buy into bitcoin directly in large amounts and hoard/dump coins at the right times to make their futures contracts more profitable.Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: ImHash on November 05, 2017, 06:43:46 AM Why do you care what they are doing with bitcoin and it's market? You just keep hodling your bitcoins, No one will touch them, When price goes high enough you either sell out and cash out your profit and then start crying when you see price is going higher :D Or you'll keep them for another 7 years. You could solve this problem by refusing to sell your bitcoins.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Hyperme.sh on November 05, 2017, 09:33:01 AM +1. You’ve really upped the quality of your posts lately. Goldman Sachs (according to Brock Pierce (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2268216.msg24041175#msg24041175)) is apparently involved with the $2 billion EOS token sale. Follow-up: I wonder when more people will realize that EOS is a scam. very shady terms if anyone bothered to read them... lost all my respect out there. Mind pointing to specifics? I couldn't find anything that suggests that EOS is a scam. Sure it looks like Dan Larimer just making profit off the gigantic ICO that they are holding and the whole platform seems to be an integration of Steem + Bitshares, but then, it's up to the investors whether or not they're interested and want to invest. 1. Claiming they are not subject to US securities laws because they claim they did not sell to US persons, yet it is documented that US persons did purchase the token sale. They refused to do KYC to prevent US persons from participating. Ditto for Chinese, Koreans, UK, Canadians, and other countries which have strict securities laws and are cracking down. So they incorporate in the Caymans and presumably expect to hide behind layers of lawyers. Let’s see how that works out for them and those accomplices affiliates like @chryspano. 2. Running the ICO for a year so they can pump hype about being ahead of schedule, cause the price to jump way up so they can sell, then let the price crash back down so they buy their own ICO. Recycling their money over and over again to extract maximum rents from the ecosystem while ending up with most of the ICO tokens for themselves via numerous sockpuppets same as they did for Steem. Running their tokens through Bitfinex in Hong Kong with that Tether et al scam that Brock Pierce is involved with so presumably they can obscure the disposals of the funds to fiat so as to obscure how their extensive organized crime syndicate is buying their own ICO. Look into the conglomerate structure of the parent companies of Bitfinex and climb down that rabbit hole. Even Dan announced in a blog that they would do this admitting in writing that he is scamming. 3. Documented upthread that the ICO is designed to be algorithmically gamed (details linked upthread) so that this is unfair. Dan was warned about this before launch and chose to ignore it. 4. Terms of the token sale claim that the tokens are not be part of any future software distribution, and that there is no common enterprise because the funds raised are not being used to create such a software distribution, yet in videos and promotions they claim exactly the opposite that they are using the funds to develop what will be the software distribution. Clearly all the speculators here expect the tokens to be the tokens of the software distribution. 5. Lying about their technology. Ridiculing other experts (including PhDs of computer science from Tendermint, Vitalik, and myself) who write correctly about their technology. 6. Failing to admit that DPoS only functions properly if the stake (tokens) are controlled by an oligarchy of whales. 7. Lying about the past performance of the technology, even having their shills here declare me a liar when I point about that the Steem system has been DDoS attacked numerous times because the zero transaction fee nonsense does not fund the perimeter nodes of the system. Vitalik was interviewed: Quote from: http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aId=3038837 Quote Concerns about as well as regulatory measures to control initial coin offering (ICO) is on the rise. Are ICOs a necessary part of the process in the development of a blockchain ecosystem? ICOs are a powerful tool and one that in many cases is an important aid in funding protocol development. In general, open-source protocols are very hard to monetize, and so the fact that in this particular area, we actually do have a way to monetize protocol development is something that we should be thankful for. However, they also have their flaws, and I think many of these flaws arise from the fact that even though the ICOs are happening on a decentralized platform, the ICOs themselves are hardly centralized; they inherently involve many people trusting a single development team with potentially over $200 million of funding. There are also not very good incentives for people to produce information to help people determine which projects are worth participating in. I think in the medium term, getting funds with ICOs will get harder, regardless of whether or not regulation is implemented. Vitalik is wrong. There are numerous methods for monetizing open source: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/magic-cauldron/magic-cauldron.html All of them require actually producing something that people use first before monetizing. Apparently Dan has decided to go the direction of the Wall Street criminal syndicate and cashing out before producing things that are valuable. Steem has no viable business model. Dan is only creating scams that require more greater fools to sustain them. Nobody is willing to pay anything for a Steem blog. There is no actual commerce going on over at Steem. What is going on now is selling ICO bags to grandmothers. Once we have all the ICO tokens in the hands of n00bs, then the crypto winter comes and that is when the regulators come in because so many grandmothers will have lost their life savings. Because as Vitalik has accurately predicted, 90+% of all ICO tokens will go to zero. This is what Goldman Sachs does. They did it to Greece for example. Dan is an accomplice and maybe they will leave him hanging out to dry as one of the fall guys. We’ll see… Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: atc1-REAL on November 05, 2017, 11:40:08 AM Its true and its very reasonable to be bearish now considering the rapid price appreciation that no one anticipated in such a short time. The inevitable correction will happen, and when the investors who invest into the CME futures without knowing this see the drop, its just going to be further bad publicity for btc. As he has rightly pointed out, they dont care about the technology or about its future, only how many customers they can get while the iron is hot.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Pab on November 05, 2017, 04:04:50 PM It still need to get regulators approval,hard task for regulators,how thay will classified btc,commodity no,currency no,asset no,sow how thay will name btc,maybe Dimon nightmare
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Torque on November 05, 2017, 05:11:48 PM The difference is, imagine what the price per house would be if there were only 21M mortgages in the world to "package up" into derivatives trading, and mortgage ETFs were trading all over the world on various exchanges 24/7.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: Shamie1002 on November 05, 2017, 05:13:51 PM Certainly, we don't have the power. The only concern of users in fact is to profit. It is not that of a surprise though. That is why I also do not trust bankers. The legality it brought to the country where I am from certainly has a reason. Especially knowing that there are no projects about bitcoin towards its use in the future.
Title: Re: [Bearish] The Dangerous Reason Why Bitcoin Just Hit Yet Another New High Post by: xfaqs01 on November 05, 2017, 05:49:30 PM We'll the only crisis that they can inflict to the crypto is regulations from the government, other than that I don't see anything that could stop or harm the momentum of bitcoin. And if ever thee is it will only be temporary for sure.
|
