Bitcoin Forum

Something that became more evident this last week is that Alt coin price pumping/manipulation is MUCH easier than Bitcoin BTC. It only took Roger Ver and his shills a few days to super pump Bitcoin Cash with more than 100%. To have the same effect with BTC, you will have to get most of the BTC whales to act together and this is no easy task. 

There are also more BTC exchanges to manipulate than Bitcoin Cash or Alt coin exchanges, so these Alt coin whales can concentrate their efforts for better results on only 1 or 2 exchanges where these coins are traded.

This is going to happen a lot more now, since this was such a huge success for these Pumpers, so be wary.  ::)

Sadly you're right. Its chaos this past weekend and many people gave in to panic and jumped wagon while things are running wild with bch. Seems we just have to learn to ride what these whales are cooking up

Anything with a lower market cap is easier to manipulate. This is true too in the penny stock market. Enter with buy and sell limits and protect yourself. Otherwise sharks will be waiting to hose you.

Good observation. We have heard a lot of of this so called Pump and Dump around and its very evident in the last couple of days as Bitcoin Cash was really pumped so hard that the price doubled in what? less than a week? It was clearly Pump & Dump and we literally saw it into action. I also felt for newbies who have bought Bitcoin Cash when the price is $2000 because they are literally manipulated by people behind pumping the coins. As compare to bitcoin that has a lot of whales and its really hard to do a coordinated attack just like what Bitcoin Cash manipulators did in the last couple of days.

Everything can be manipulated so the bitcoin market will be no exception to that. It is not easy but just notice how the bitcoin price can go up and down when news is released. Investors, companies or whoever can publish fake news to influence the bitcoin market. Good news will increase the price of the bitcoin and negative news (like a country banning or taking measures against bitcoins) will result in a price drop... Also dumping a lot of bitcoins at the same time, or buy heaps can influence the market of course but you will need lots and lots of money before you can achieve that. So manipulating the market can be done but it is not always that easy ;)

This is not actually surprising since this is really happening since from the start on where trading do began. There would really be always a whale and shills and manipulations cant be avoided since they do have the capability to do so.The thing regarding on price manipulation on altcoin is really much simplier than on bitcoin itself. There are people who do hold lots of coins which they can easily move in and move out as long they do see an opportunity on making money.

If you are big BTC hodler, you can easily manipulate any altcoin in the market even bitcoin too at some extent but you can't maintain the pump for longer as Bitcoin has large community and still more distributed than other cryptocurrencies. Price is highly dependent upon demand. When you have the ability to put 10k BTC buy order in proper manner, pumping the price is way too easy. Exactly what we saw in BCH.

exactly that.

i've traded listed stocks with smaller caps and penny stocks, and both get manipulated. it's not just in crypto.

Bitcoin price is really difficult to manipulate as it has diversified users all over the world.Its difficult to co ordinate among them and take a same decision at once.Also,bitcoin's price is much higher.BCH is not widely spread among users and also,its price was very low making it easy to manipulate.

Markets always follow whales and whales always pump their own alts. This is no surprise to those who have been around and it will continue to happen. It can happen easier too if the altcoin in mention has a small marketcap. Be careful out there it is a dangerous game we are playing

Yeah, I was thinking exactly about a correlation to the penny stock market. People need to be a bit more concerned with where the pump is going though. A pump too strong will carry people away and when those whales pull out, everyone's stuck in a weird limbo with the price dropping. Honestly, I don't think people should really get into altcoin pump and dumps as well as penny stocks because there's no security for you and you can get carried away so quickly.

If we talk about those fluctuations in the price of cheaper coins, then the reality of manipulation in the market are huge, because that is because the coin is cheaper and it is thrown to the market by large holders of these coins. Of course with Bitcoin this does not happen, Although large whales always adjust the market, When they want to either earn or raise the price for Bitcoin.

It seems this is going to be a more recurrent thing in the future, it seems they were not having the success they wanted with the forks and have decided to switch their strategy and it seems it paid off since they probably made a fortune in the last days, while most people that bought bitcoin cash at those inflated prices are probably never going to get their money back.

There are big whales that could manipulate the price of bitcoin and we have seen that recently when there is a collective effect from miners to halt the transaction by reducing the hash rates and the price increase of bitcoin cash is mainly due to Korea as they started trading with their currency and majority of the volumes came from that country.

The reason why it looks more easy to manipulate alt coin than BTC was because they use BTC as the main currency to trade to BCH. More people prefer to have BTC that is why it is easy to look for a seller of BCH.  But if you are going to pump BTC price using other coin then you will find it hard to llok for someone willing to sell their BTC for other coin that is why most of the time fiat is being used.

yeah bitcoin cash i a very good example, it can be manipulated easy by whales. So if you are a small time investor and you a fall from a trap, it will be hard for you to escape. Its better to stick with bitcoin

I saw others post during that time that they will sell their bitcoin for less than $6k and switch to bitcoin cash because it is the coin that will replace bitcoin and the price is already more than $2k so I don't know what happen to them afterwards when the price is crashing. Those who just got in in crypto world would be somehow confuse seeing that there are so many bitcoin in their names and seeing that bitcoin cash is rallying and there's a shilling then many would be entice to buy it only to be dumped upon afterwards. We should always be vigilant when a coin is being hype because sooner or later it will crash if there is no steam left anymore and by the time the dumping starts, it will happen so fast and then the exchange will freeze as well due to the volume or any other reason and you will see your position in the losing side instead of being in profit.

It is exciting thing that we have in cryprocurrency that there could be such manipulation. It is not illegal) and i think it is just th reality of cryptoworld that such tricks could be performed)) Roger Ver as an old friend of mine told me about his intentions in advance, so I benefited a little bit from Bitcoin Cash)))

Yes, yes and yes.
That BCH is already the proof.
Just a group of rich people can do it easily. It is like they owned that currency by doing that and a lot have been a victim of that manipulation.
I hope it is a lesson learned for the victims and may your money rest in peace already.  ;D
So what are we expecting next?
Dont trust the hype.

But one need to understand the core of this manipulation. It isn't Roger and team alone who contributed in manipulation but the big BTC community who started selling their BTC and buying BCH. I ain't able to understand how can someone invest in Bitcoin if he doesn't even has patience to hold it for single loose day!
Bitcoin community on whole is too weak because of huge influx of amateur traders. That is the main reason why we see easy manipulation and high volatility everyday.

It's a simple case from an economic perspective, the volume in bitcoin is much larger naturally so it is hard to artificially manipulate it without huge huge amounts of investment. Whereas Bitcoin cash and to an even greater extent some smaller alts are much easier to manipulate with less funds. The day that a group collectively manage to manipulate bitcoin will be a crazy day that will make and break peoples lives in terms of profits or losses.

Well altcoins until they become established with a greater decentralized market like bitcoin will continue to suffer manipulations every now and then because its easier and people can either input or output a few millions and skew things in their favour.

Manipulation would really be somehow hard on bitcoin because the cap was so big already and it is already being distributed to many users which means it can be easily manipulated unless if theres a group will took up or buy up huge amounts of bitcoins (lets say hundreds thousands of bitcoins ) then i can really give effects on bitcoins price no matter what move they would make.

Harsh truth but you are right. altcoins pump is fairly easy as they don't already have much volume and when they get the huge volume they pump highly and easily. In the case of bitcoin cash it was a huge pump lasting more than a day and mostly it was Korean money which was flowing in from bithumb exchange.

And as you mentioned yes it was a great success for the pumpers and this is not good at all for the crypto market. At one point it was like it will go past BTC at the pace which it was moving upward. thankfully that did not happen and we hope that does not happen in near future too.

Agree...Its the sad truth Alt-coin can easily be manipulated than Bitcoin. As market cap of altcoins is way less than bitcoin so manipulation is much easier to make. Moreover Bitcoin holders has already seen many dips and highs so far and now they have faith in it. On the other hand, Altcoins(especially ICO's) often got prey of panic selling.

Well op, i really could not disagree with you even if i wanted to. Because it clearly is the truth and it really has happened. Bitcoin will be next to impossible to pump unlike other coins or tokens out there that have a very low market cap. everyone should be careful of these so called pumps because if not, they will really lose souch momey. More than what they can afford to lose.

sure the smaller the market, the easier.

I think one other thing to note is that these alts are really mostly for pump and dump anyway. These don't have the same wide support and functions as bitcoins. I doubt I'd be able to pay my bills using those alts, like I do with bitcoin.

Trading in general, is very risky, you never know how long they'll keep pumping a certain alt until they decide to dump them all.

Correct, and this not only applies to the market cap but it is a law of physics the bigger an object is the harder it is to move it, and the smaller an object is the easier is to move it so it is not surprising this elemental principle also applies to money and price fluctuations.

Yes, compared to the market of bitcoin, what the altcoin has got is very small. So manipulation is simple as well some altcoins make use of those price pumping groups to make the altcoins reach the user network in a easier way thinking it as the real growth.

its actually easier to manipulate the price in altcoin due to the factor of a few whales that work together to eat small prey different from the bitcoin that is spread by whales prey on its so that up and down faster ,altcoin also seen from the many enthusiasts then the whales come race altcoin more strange easy to manipulate

Indeed price manipulation is much easier to do in atcoin because altcoin has a smaller users and more cheaper than in bitcoin so, a ĺarge whale can manipulate the price by pumping or dumping altcoins and it only requires small amount of money and unlike in bitcoin who is a lot of users it hard for them manipulate the price although they can still affect the price but a little and it requires a lot money to manipulate the price of bitcoin

Of course but that's the reason why we need tio scrutinize all ICO's carefully in order to phish out the scam ones because bad people are riding on that to flood the system with shitcoins and scamming unsuspecting individuals as a result.

I think there is a difference between the price being manipulated and the price moving according to the news and events that happen in bitcoin, I think that after we got segwit activated it was natural the price went up, we had waited for so much time for that to happen that when it finally did this created confidence in bitcoin, but what happened in the last week was clearly manipulation from the miners in order to try to make bitcoin cash stronger than bitcoin but it failed.

I think you are being unfair about bitcoin and bitcoin cash. First of all, bch status is not 100% altcoin, some people say it is actually another bitcoin and they are reasonable in that. Secondly, when bch was pumped, more than a billion of dollars was needed for it. Not that easy, right? Moreover, bch's trading volume was then bigger than that of bitcoin. I am not sure, but I guess it means that pumping bitcoin would have been a lot like that in terms of efforts but bitcoin cash case was easier because of cooperation. 70% was traded btc/krw, whereas bitcoin trading is not so organised and centralized.

Exactly, it would take a huge whale or a really well organised collective group, it's just not something that I foresee is going to happen. As time goes by as well there will be less and less people holding huge percentages of bitcoins as they will surely liquidate some of their holdings and that will only make it more difficult to accomplish.

This has been happening a lot in the past too. Just nobody used to care, since it was unknown coins with low volumes.
Now some people got rich and want more power or political gains, not only financial. Bitcoin Cash was the big boys' game. They aim control of Bitcoin and will not stop easily.

The rise of exchanges with no common sense rules (usually from Asia) helps the pumpers too. From what I know at Bithumb they've been using a feature to allow them trade without fees.

With the market cap being so high for Bitcoin, it is harder for a whale to move the price. The market cap is about 4 time  that of the next altcoin which is Etherium. And the market caps drop off significantly after that. Basically it’s hard for one person to control enough of Bitcoin to have a big affect. It would probably take a government to buy enough to make that kind of impact at this point.

With the top 10 alt coins not that easy, but for alt coins with 100MM and below market cap, that is what is always happening.
Until cryptos are fully regulated, this kind of behavior will not stop.

Right. You'd need tremendous amounts of btcs to have at least a chance to move the price. It's not impossible as big whales can do this to any cryptocurrency coin but it takes a lot more for btc than other alts

Bitcoin is a game of sharks and of bit capital to be able to influence its value, unlike some altcoins wich with 1 milion you can pump multiple coins at the same time, but the thing is this pumps usually catch the newbies and make them to stay with the loss, since some coins are used just for those purpose pumps and dumps. But the top altcoins arent soo easy to get manipulated, since their value is high and their walls are big as well.

Yeah the volume is the main factor about price manipulation. If the volume is very low than it is a piece of cake to make the manipulation. But when I make a trade I always search for coins who are harder to manipulate.

When it comes to altcoins with low volume and a low market cap you do not even need millions it is possible to alter the price dramatically with a few thousands dollars, this is why those kind of alts move very abruptly so if you want to avoid that you need to invest in coins with high market cap.

It is logically that alt coins are easier to manipulate because their price are smaller so people can buy and sell huge amounts wich will modify the price in a few minutes.

For example if you have 10.000$ to invest: you can buy about 1.2 bitcoin wich will surely not modify the overall price in any way.

 But if you buy dogecoins with those 10.000$ you can buy approximately 10 million coins wich will almost guarantee modify the overall price of dogecoin, of course depending on the price you buy or sell the coins

Here is the thing that makes this obvious and pointless thread, actually. The more there is market cap (money invested into Bitcoin) it means that it will become harder to change or influence the market for any one individual, this is true. People do not care so much about small altcoins and it is possible to greatly influence their markets as a result.

Yes,of curse.Roger ver has set an example for successfully pumping a altcoin.Altcoin markets have very low marketcap compared to bitcoin and so,even a trader having moderate amount of bitcoins could also become a whale and easily manipulate the market.Its true that bithumb,a korean exchange was responsible for the fierce pumping of BCH and its even said that it allowed wash trading which is illegal.BCH price was $1600 in other exchanges while it was traded for $300 in bithumb exchange at the same time.

I agree on this, maybe its because altcoins are still on its developing phase in the industry and hasn't fully stabilized just yet. Thus, it becomes easier to manipulate than BTC.

Well the diffrence between bitcoin and the other cryptocurrencies is wide, bitcoin has a much larger user base which makes controlling its price or manupilating it real hard, the other altcoins tend to have a smaller user base so if somone who iwns a large amount of them dump it it would affect the price, there goes to show how bitcoin is the best cryptocurrency and no other coin will be able to have this much of a success, because it is decentrelized and no one could manipulate its price.

Definitely, Bitcoin manipulation is not an easy task due to its wide user base even the biggest whales can't manipulate its value easily. On the other hand, alt coin market cap is not as strong as Bitcoin hence pumping and dumping is usually seen to manipulate its price for one's own profits. The recent manipulation was had to greater affect on price was the Bitcoin Cash, where its investors saw the opportunity and tried to drive users towards it.

That is due to the high prices as well as the population using bitcoins. Even government cannot manipulate bitcoin. For altcoins, it will be much possible because it is still cheaper. Anyone that can put in a large amount of investment can manipulate the prices. Like just what happened before

Yeah Bitcoin price cannot be manipulated easily because of the system which is decentralized the pumping of prices is the results of the high demand unveiling trust and reliability of the the currency, the sudden pump of Bitcoin coin is also the result of high demand and trust of the investors and belief that this coin is very much reliable,I believe that manipulation is next to impossible prices pump up is just simply because of demand and trust. 

the whales abuse the small users and steal our money I was victim of a pumping in SLR that sad

Yes, especially when the altcoin is in its starting stages. I think many people are already doing that pumping more value to the coins to make it rise in price. Bitcoin is way harder to control because it is circulated well in the market, it's not like only a few holders are holding the coins unlike the case in altcoins. Another difference is that people have different techniques in using their bitcoins as supposed to altcoin holders.

You won't be abused by whales so long as you don't join their hype and invest onto it. Next time before investing assess the real potential of a coin by researging about it to know if it still has potential for growth. It really is a fact that price manipulation of altcoins is relatively easier than bitcoin's but it still ain't that easy if someone will try to manipulate top coins with high prices. All a whale needs to start manipulating is money and the hype.

Back in 2014 I was actually quite poor, but I did manage to get my hands on some funds (under $10,000 still), but it was enough to manipulate a lot of altcoin markets where there was barely any action. I tried to organize a pump and dump, but it didn't really work that well and I lost money. It was a lesson learned, but it was also quite fun. heheeh

I also noticed that too, and this could be a big disappointment to those small time investors who invested for the hype. Only this big whales can ever do this because theyre capable of putting a large bulk of money to put an altcoin into a pump (just like BCH). I think what makes it eaiser for them to manipulate altcoin than bitcoin, is because only few posses altcoins or holding altcoins than bitcoin, and only few to none is circulating in the market.

Indeed altcoins are easier to manipulate than Bitcoin. In fact, lesser the volume of the crypto-currency is, easier it is to manipulate the price. Bitcoin having the greatest volume, it is the hardest one to manipulate, but still, with proper funds, it is not that hard to do.

Yes, we can say that their is a manipulation of price in altcoins because of having a huge dump in few days but it is totally not. Altcoins are similar to bitcoin, they are also decentralize and no body will take control in it. Altcoins also depending the flow of demand in the market but then, in the particular scenario that bitcoin is  crashing all altcoins nowadays that made their price into dumping.

Even if altcoins become regulated this is something that is going to keep happening if those kind of things happen in wall street where it is outlawed and governments have a greater control of the participants of the market then it is going to be impossible to avoid those practices in crypto.

This market control can sometimes pick up some unsuspecting and one can end up losing a lot of money in a few hours without even knowing. Today, mostly on Yobit every day dozens of currencies are pumped all day and the next day they return to normal value, this week I saw a coin with an increase of 820k% (this and out of reality) some I even understand the ease by have a weak drive, but others become frightening. The worst and that every day more new whales come out and show themselves.