Bitcoin Forum

It was Paypal President David Marcus that said "The big question is whether [Bitcoin] is going to go mainstream or stay limited to just a few zealots and criminals." I started my bitcoin business, stampbit.com (http://www.stampbit.com), with the intention of finding out for myself. Its been two months since i have started and have seen very little interest for this bitcoin version of USPS click'n'ship. No its not instant like clicknship, nor can i reasonably compete with my supplier on price, but then again i am trying to provide something that may prove inaccessible to anyone without a paypal account or credit card, and do it in a way thats much more convenient that how USPS does.

But you'd think after two months i'd get the hint, no one cares! Yet i realized it was not only me when i stumbled upon bitcoinstore.com (http://www.bitcoinstore.com) who so generously posts their sales figures in order to urge buyers to take the initiative and support bitcoin by allowing them to remain competitive. For these last two months ive seen these figures climb at a snails pace, in line with my own business. So maybe by business was just a bad idea, but what about bitcoinstores? Their prices are CHEAPER than its competitors newegg and BHPhoto! And they have all the same features as their competitors. Its only shortfall is that its selection is not as vast, but for a new businesses its selection is quite generous. So why then is bitcoinstore not beating them?  

• Price fluxations put all the risk on buyers.
• No one wants to take any risk when they have cheap, easy, safe, fiat.
  

And how do we create that price stability?

• E-commerce.
  

Alright so maybe bitcoin is just so small of an economy that it would not be reasonable to expect any business to thrive solely on it. How big of an economy is bitcoin exactly, in terms of USD? Looking at blockchain.info's USD transaction volume chart (http://blockchain.info/charts/trade-volume?showDataPoints=true&timespan=&daysAverageString=1&scale=0&address=) we can see the daily transaction volumes this past month reach a low of 1 Million per day to a high of 12.5 Million. That is Per Day. How much of that do you think is going towards legitimate bitcoin business?


http://s9.postimg.org/lq235jub1/Capture.png
http://postimg.org/image/wcvwaz2gb/ (http://postimg.org/image/wcvwaz2gb/)

One telltale sign of legitimate business transaction volume comes from a press release (http://blog.bitpay.com/2013/04/bitpay-eclipses-silk-road-in-bitcoin.html) from major bitcoin transaction processor bitpay (http://bitpay.com), which claims a reported volume of 5.2 million in the month of march. According to the aforementioned chart, a volume of $130,643,703 occurred on all major exchanges during the month of march. 5.2 Million of $130 Million is 4%, this is including precious metal dealers who act as a proxy currency for coin sellers who wish to remain anonymous. That a legitimate business must compare itself to a criminal enterprise as some sort of symbol of merit reveals the state that bitcoin is in. What this then becomes in not an issue of who is profitable, or whether the price will ever become stable enough to be useful as a currency, but what congress will think when it comes time to determine whether this new currency has enough legitimate use to warrant keeping it legal. Unlike the speculators that plague the markets in hopes of using this new technology as a manipulative get rich scheme, we bitcoin entreprenurs actually believe in this currency enough to ride our whole business on it, but as we are finding out the hard way it looks as if we might be the only ones.


http://s13.postimg.org/aixvytxfp/Capture.png
http://s13.postimg.org/aixvytxfp/Capture.png (http://s13.postimg.org/aixvytxfp/Capture.png)

If you advertised anonymous ship n click on Silk Road you'd probably get a lot of business lol

Lot's of bitcoins went to buy Asics, pizza and amazon credits. Lot's are used to buy virtual visa cards too

I'll be happy to publish some rough figures on my small part (btctrinkets):

I've been in business for eight months exactly today. I initially started with three products and no website, and have been gradually growing my selection and added an online-store, so after the initial roll-out a large portion of my sales are more recent. To date I carry 9 different items, the tenth is waiting for photographs and eleventh is in production. My plan has all along been to keep re-investing what I initially put in and it has seemed like a sound plan so far.

I have shipped out around 200 packages.
I have sold roughly 330 items.
On an average my page sees about 140 loads a day.
On an average week I sell one item, recently it has been hovering at just about three.

What I really like about your service is that it caters to a need of another bitcoin merchant: I myself can only cover so much of my expenses without converting to fiat. Hosting, stamps and any computer hardware I need.

Would I use it ?
- Sadly no, with the average size and value of my packages and my geolocation it's not viable.

I wish I had more encouraging words to throw in, because I really belive your service is the type we need, I don't want to convert to fiat constantly and I believe there are others who think alike. When we reach the point where a business accepting bitcoin can use said btc on their own expenses, be it hosting, delivery, wages, bills or goods the we can really say we have a functioning economy and infrastructure.

One aspect is getting visibility, it's hard.. even when your willing to pay for it, there are only a handfull of worthwhile places to toss your money in atm.

I used the Bitcoins to purchase Pokemon cards and GPUs, wonder how criminal that is :(

You would think but then im the one who has to answer to the cops. Unfortunately there's nothing i can do about this but so is the nature of the beast.

This is understandable, such a small business cannot afford the risk of being a bitcoin-buyer, even on something as small as postage. It is my intention to make this automated (if i can find anyone who is willing to help for a share) so that businesses can streamline their process as they would stamps or endica, but at the moment i have aimed this at consumers and perhaps small businesses.

now what sort of person doesn't have a paypal account or credit card?

either 1) very poor people. 2) criminals who don't want to divulge their identity.  can you think of anyone else?  if so please let us know.

I have both, I'd rather have neither... to be more specific I'd rather live in a world where both are obsolete.

I've got a PayPal account, but also had lots of trouble with it and I withdrew all funds from it about a year ago and don't plan on using it.  I have no credit card and don't want one, either, but maybe it is easier in Europe to not have one than in the US.  But I find it rather troubling for how many things you need one when travelling - we had to get a credit card just for vacation in the US, even though we had never needed one before and also didn't need it afterwards.

i use bitcoin and not in a criminal way.

my uses of bitcoins to date:

bought psu, ram, and case fan from bitcoinstore. (.78 BTC)

bought computer monitor from bitmit (.35)

bought windows vista digital delivery from bitmit (.4) called Microsoft and it was actually an authentic copy. i was amazed.

paid domob to compile a linux program for me . (.08)
 
paid off a loan (.2)

bought an athlon x64 from gary492 (.14)

yeah i think i'm legally in the clear here. my whole draw on bitcoins is that it doesn't require a credit report, credit card, bank account and i'm in charge of essentially my own bank. its the future and i genuinely enjoy being a part of it.

I buy humble bundle regularly with bitcoin, and I bought mining hardware with bitcoin...

One need to remember that those stats include every transaction, if you just move your coins around they are included in this list.
If you have to move coins multiple times, they add up again.
There are far less coins used to buy things daily.

My uses so far: Received 0.08 BTC as above and received 0.1 BTC for another small task. :D

But honestly, I would be very delighted if something I need could be paid in bitcoin in the future (so far there was nothing).  Possibly I'll switch my webhosting to a bitcoin accepting one for a starter.

i recommend namecheap. their plans are only listed in year units, but if you contact support you can pay per month. 4.95 usd/mo for 4GB ram, 20 processes, 25 gb space and the best damn cpanel i've ever seen. plus their support people are nice as fuck. they definitely go the extra mile. i even asked them if i could run a bitcoin client on their server and they said sure, as long as it doesn't exceed the process limit.

and how do we do E-Commerce?  by offering insurance and reversibility on transactions, ie. legal tender.  In other words 'FIAT'.

maybe bitcoin people should venture out of their houses once in a while?

Yoda says: The FUD is strong with this one.

yep. america has become its own oppressor.

How many butthurt threads do you need to open, with shock value titles, whinging about how Bitcoin sucks, and your business doesn't make any money because bitcoin is no good etc.. etc..

"I opened up a store selling dingleberries for USD, but no one bought any...cuz it's impossible for make money using dollars...cuz only douchebags use USD and douchebags don't even buy dingleberries"

A few things:

- I frequent these forums quite a bit and have never heard of stampbit.com.  Maybe a lack of advertising/exposure is hurting you.
- Ordering from your stampbit.com website requires me to download an excel spreadsheet and then fill it out and email it to you.  Most people would probably be more comfortable with something easier to use like a regular HTML form.  A potential alternative to making your own HTML form is a google docs form.  Info on google docs form here (https://support.google.com/drive/answer/87809?hl=en)


Overall I think your business model is a solid one and bitstamp.com could be quite useful.  I hope more people use it because it's a service that I can see myself using in the future.

You realize he would've said the same thing about anything that could pose a threat to Paypal?

Hey, I would certainly use your website for shipping if it wasn't so incredibly obtuse and user unfriendly, don't blame the market when your product stinks, ask the users why no ones buying, you may be surprised.

3. In countries which is banned by PayPal...

Good point! India is practically outlawing paypal.

Professionalism, or its lack, could be a factor... (clicked on bitcoinstore link in OP's post)
http://s9.postimg.org/myz8tqq0f/Capture.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Yeah, I gotta say I'm not very inclined to do business with someone who doesn't like bitcoin and isn't working to see it succeed.

Self-fulfilling prophet.

His business will fail because just like he knew, bitcoins weren't for real.
And all those people making money off it, well they are just criminals, that's why.

I ran my own small business for over 20 years. When I sold it I had 5 locations that were doing quite well. During my ownership I opened and closed 7 locations because I was in the wrong market/bad location. Running a small business is an experiment. If you succeed great but success takes time and a lot of hard work. I remember sitting in a location for about three months, after a mass of advertising and watching the door never open. I thought to myself well here's another failed location. I guess I'll tell the landlord that I need to exercise the clause to term the lease. Then suddenly customers started showing up and that location became one of my most successful.

Here's some free advice.
 
You haven't given your business enough time to succeed or fail. Success could still happen but you have to really believe in it and work hard for it.

No one person can know every aspect of running a small business. That requires a level of expertise across diciplines that doesn't exist in just one individual. Professional website designers can make a selling website but can't deal with government officials. Legal reps can deal with leases and government licensure but can't help you with suppliers and so on. Hire several consultants or a consulting company. They can help you work out the fine details for making sure you have a chance at success. The money you spend will return to you 1000 fold.

Have enough capital behind you to survive. This is the most important part. If you don't have capital reserves to cover any contingency then even success will be failure eventually. What are those contingencies? That's why you need consultants. Many people, even consultants, will tell you it's key to get cash sales as quickly as possible to survive and this is good advice only if you're short on capital.

Market your business EFFICIENTLY! Most of my business associates would throw masses of money at marketing to only see small increases in sales. They were advertising in the wrong market (don't run an ad on Trinity Broadcasting Network to sell FSM t-shirts).

Read every piece of information ever written about your business. You absolutely MUST be an expert in your field to be successful. If the other guy knows more than you he will win and you will lose.

Find out what your product is worth at retail and if you can live on the profit. Don't sell it for less. I know it sounds counter to every business plan you have ever heard about but discounting your product or service for quick sales doesn't work, even for big business. When big business does it they see it as a marketing expense not a business plan. Small businesses can't afford to do it.

Talk to other business owners with similar businesses (Bitcoin businesses). They can tell you their mistakes (and yours) and keep you from repeating them. Really listen to them and understand what they're saying. If they're judgmental and harsh - roll with it and gleen everything useful that you can out of what they tell you. Don't listen to people that aren't running a business and never have. They don't know what they're talking about and can't really relate.

Never tell your customer base that you're on hard times or having difficulty with your business. This causes them to lose faith in you and your doomed. Even if your living on beans and sawdust bread your customers need to think your driving a limo everywhere you go.

If you're interested, I ran a small chain of tool and equipment rental stores and was gobbled up by a big chain. I retired at 56. If my ideas help you don't tip me. Roll that back into your business and reward me with seeing another sucessful Bitcoin business.

+1  Great info for everyone considering a business.

Agreed. It is a good list.

Think to which audience you cater. Most Bitcoin users are still mainly geek.

I bought computer parts, ASIC, precious metal, VPS, domain name, coding and graphical work.

I've sold mining rig, GPU, ASIC and 300 PCI-E riser cables.

Bought over $20K of bitcoins for friends with a small margin.

Did only legal transaction.

People hoard their bitcoins. They are reluctant to spend because they think the price will go up and they don't want to lose out - they don't want to be that pizza guy paying $2million for his dinner.

Suggestion: why don't bitcoinstores and other ecommerce types add an alt-coin payment option to your sites? I know the devcoin community is desperately looking for stuff to spend their coins on. (Devcoin is not a hoarding currency, it's a spending currency in that no-one thinks the price will be massive in a few years, so no psychological barrier to spending).

Due to the way it's been designed, bitcoin will attract more hoarders and speculators as time goes on, as it has gold-like properties. The alt-coins are where commerce will be developed because most have not been designed for hoarding (eg much larger issue of coins etc)

I still don't get this hoarder-argument.
You can hoard and still spend coins without any problem, just rebuy any coins you have used right after that.

Actually, price or the expectation on the price does not matter.  I would love to spend my coins when I could to buy things I want (at the moment not yet, unfortunately), and would then just buy back the coins spent.  But maybe you're right that this may be a psychological barrier for some people.

Just a couple of thoughts:

I see at Stampbit you need to download a spreadsheet and input data that way. Make it all web-based, so it's easier.

I've bought some web hosting, and drooled over a few catalogs.  But unlike many others hereabouts, I don't have a small fortune in BTC.  I have most of what I have invested in ASICminer, hoping to grow it a bit.  This isn't get-rich-quick.  My mining days are pretty well behind me.  I only ever did it part time with the video cards in our two computers, and those cards are just not up to the task anymore. If I am going to participate in the economy, I need a way to make sure my BTC don't spend to zero.  I believe in the principles, and my interest in silkroad or other illegal activity is nil. But with the increasing difficulty of turning fiat into BTC, at least in the US, there will be a stranglehold on spending. And because I don't hold a lot of coin, I need to have a _lot_ of trust in the merchant, since the transaction is irreversible.

I guess the bottom line is, I am interested in shopping with my coin, and have done.  But as a consumer, I have to be more careful than I am with my card/fiat.  Card transactions are reversible if need be (and I've only ever done that once in my life), and more fiat comes my way every other week.  But coin does not.  Mining with my two 6700-series cards is...laughable at this point.

I'd consider offering payment flexibility, BTC and fiat.  I recently read about a guy in San Francisco with a shop (tea shop, maybe?? bakery??) on the Embarcadero that takes BTC or USD.  And gives change either way, mix/match.  I don't know if he's registered under FinCen, or if he needs to be, since he's only doing it when making change for a purchase.  May be a flexibility option to look into.

That follows if you have fiat to convert. But what if you are mining or earning your coins? Then the coins are your salary - maybe your only salary - and you need to decide whether to spend or save - if the purchasing power of the coins looks likely to rise due to the coin design, then the urge is to save.

If you are earning alt-coins - say merge mining an alt-coin along with your bitcoins - then the tendency is to save the bitcoins and use the alt-coins for expenses. But because no ecommerce site takes alt-coins, folk are forced to go to an exchange, sell them and then send the fiat to their bank minus hefty bank charges, to buy their dinner. So why not allow these folk to spend the coins directly, that way no exchange and bank costs.

The above scenario is pretty common - there are loads of threads asking why people merge-mine alt-coins - and the answer is that the alt coins pay for expenses. Now we just need an ecommerce person to exploit that...

Classic bitcoin bashing from Paypal. They have the most to lose from the rise of bitcoin, so it's only logic. Someone should tell M.Marcus that the vast majority of bitcoin users are legit law-abiding citizens. Saying the opposite is like reading drunk driving stories in the newspaper and claiming that all drivers are drunk.

But he is correct.  The biggest problem Bitcoin has right now is the difficulty of getting Bitcoin with fiat, especially in North America (I am assuming).  I hyped my friend on Bitcoin, and he wanted to grab his credit card and buy a few coins right now.  What we found out is if you don't have a miner, you have to go through several hoops in order to actually buy into the market.  I believe North America needs a registered company where you can easily exchange fiat for Bitcoins, and back again.  All anonymity would be lost, but I think that is what gives politicians ect the grounds for saying Bitcoin is only for criminals and Zealots.

Paypal would actually be the big winner if this happened, so I don't think they would be wanting this not to happen, as it would be the easiest way to transfer Fiat into Bitcoins.

In the end my friend never did end up purchasing any Bitcoins to use in the Bitcoin economy.  If we can't make it so even someone that is sold on the idea can't get in, how do we expect others to follow?

https://www.bitinstant.com/ (https://www.bitinstant.com/) this is what your looking for.

Nope - no credit cards, have to be registered with some service called zipmark or something (I've never heard of it) to then have your bank send money over.

Obtaining bitcoin in the United States is a hurdle.

Litecoins are being accepted at more & more sites.

On the conversion to fiat... you buy precious metals and take them to your local dealer to convert back into fiat.

It's difficult but possible. Just as systems were getting in place and easier the regulators moved in and screwed everything up.

Until there are at least a few local economies using Bitcoin amongst themselves, Bitcoin will remain primarily a toy for speculators and, yes, zealots and criminals.  That's just how currencies work.

who is going to invest in a currency that can be produced out of thin air by anyone with a computer?

You also get sales by making a post about something unrelated about what you have to offer.

I will probably use your service if I have btc to spare since you're offering zero commission right now.

Yes, http://www.txtpaintball.com (http://www.txtpaintball.com)

America is not a fascist state. It's a republic. The problem is that public opinion has swung so far toward the extreme of security over freedom that the public is oppressing themselves. Either things will change, or the public will "get used to" less freedom and keep demanding more and more security.

Everyone is talking about the 1% oppressing the 99%, but the real issue is the 51% oppressing the 49%, and that has nothing to do with wealth.

that's the dumbest shit i've ever heard anyone say.

I dont have a paypal account (by choice) nor do i want a credit card. I do have a debit card however thats only because i am a US citizen and have at least $500 to put into a bank. So to address your question of who doesnt have either:

1. Very poor people who cant afford a bank account.
2. Criminals who dont want to divulge their identity but dont wish to steal someone elses.
3. Foreigners who do not have a US bank account.
4. People who by principle do not wish to support our current system.
5. People who have been shut out of the current system by credit rating agencies.

There are many case scenarios as to why a paypal/cc only business would prevent someone from being able to use it.

Hi, ive seen this suggested a few times and have considered it, and agree that this would certainly make it more accessible, not needing local software to process an order, however at the moment since i am doing this all manually and dont have any way to implement a shopping cart email is the best way to keep track of all of this. And of course this prevents anyone from accidentally submitting a wrong email address which would prevent me from fulfilling an order. With an automated solution i would make this entirely web based but until then i must continue with this slightly clunkier method. Thanks for the advice.

... wrong 49% just don't pay taxes at the end of the year.. You don't have to make that much to begin paying taxes. Those making a few million a year are not oppressing anyone.

True, ive been told 6 months is a minimum, often for brick and mortar a year is a good measure.



If i knew a rich guy to fund my projects id probably be doing something a bit more fun than computer work, though i would still work on this as i really do want bitcoin to succeed and feel that a strong business community will be the only way.



When your customer can buy from your supplier its hard to ask retail.


Ill take that to heart. This isnt my main job of course but it is a neat experiment.

Don't worry, when bitcoin price reaches $1K+, there will be lots of users using bitcoin. Currently bitcoin just worth too little that if you spend your precious coin you will have little left (suppose most of the users have 1-100 coin), but if one bitcoin worth a lot, then lots of people will start to spend them

Gavin said that if the price double every year then you can always spend half of your coins and still maintain the same purchase power. Suppose that you need 30K USD each year to have a decent life, you have to spend $30K worth of coin each year, and that is 300 bitcoin in today's price, means 600 coins at hand, maximum 10000 users have that amount of coin

But if that figure dropped to 30 bitcoin, things will be very different

It takes time to distribute the bitcoin first, currently it is through mining, but later when there are lot of people spending coins and the coin supply is shrinking, selling goods/services will become the main method to get coins

Bought and sold a lot of stuff in BTC.

Fiat currency, XBox360, GPUs, Chevy 95 Pickup, Shirts, Trinket, etc etc..

Very nice tought !  +1

I totally agree to this enlighted vision :)

Deal with it. Go live in Hong Kong and enjoy your ~20 years of greater freedom until China resumes control and crushed individual liberty.

What's the "dumbest shit" part?  Look up fascist before you call someone an idiot.

If users can overcome the idea of having fractions of a coin for their hard earned money. Or maybe they will forget what its worth and perceive fractions of a coin as being trivial.

You have a server, you have a brain, build the HTML form that you need to make it work.  You can easily set up an HTML form that uses PHP to send you an email with the form contents. 

Here's a link to some code that you can use to do it: http://www.freecontactform.com/email_form.php (http://www.freecontactform.com/email_form.php)

Have problems?  Post on a PHP forum if it's a PHP problem, post on an HTML forum if it's an HTML problem.  Or PM me, I'm happy to help you with this.  Bitcoiners should help eachother.  Heck, the reason I'm on this forum right now is procrastinating working on an HTML/PHP form for my own bitcoin project :) 

There is another group that cannot use credit cards:  People living outside their own countries.  Credit doesn't follow you outside of your home country.  If you are visiting on a temporary basis you may pay it when you get back or over the Internet but in the long term credit cards are not convenient for say an Indian Exchange Student studying in Australia.  How does he pay his credit card?  He must leave a large amount in India that he might need in Australia or pay large fees to transfer if he needs to make a purchase over the Internet.

Now there's Bitcoin.

You would think for being global these credit card companies could handle these sort of things.

Interesting.  I do think that Bitcoin's greatest benefit is the fact it provides solutions to many global problems.  With the way the world is, thanks to the internet, ease of travel, international business and so on, the need for banking to become more global as well is behind the curve and Bitcoin is a great option for these issues.

Quote: No one wants to take any risk when they have cheap, easy, safe, fiat.

LMAO!!!!!  ;D
Yeah right!
The guy who wrote this, surely doesn't live in south america.
our currency is so crappy and unstable that every single business is calculated in dollars or euros, and even that, we have 4 different prices for them, official exchange rate, export exchange rate, black market (goverment controlled) exchange rate (yeah, it is ridiculous! but true!, government controls the black market rate too (or at least they say so hehe)) and true black market exchange rate.

Pay with credit scam (sorry, credit card) is a pain, tons of checks, credit card company holds, ridiculous fees, ridiculous exchange rates (they do as they fit)
I don't EVEN want to begin to talk about paypal!.

I can go on for hours with this.

bitcoin is great!, I buy whatever i want, whenever i want NOW, no limitations, no problems, no nothing, just put the fucking amount, press sent and that's it!, MAN IT IS FANTASTIC!

Only an idiot could not see the revolution bitcoin is, if at least used it once!.

I also had doubts when I first came in contact with cryptos, but give it a chance, and loved it!.

Interesting that even when using dollars foreign countries would still have different exchange rates for them, you would think arbitrage would settle those differences.  Bitcoin does solve alot of problems but its still very expensive for both buyer and seller, at least in developed countries where fiat does have definite advantages.

BTC=$97 Gox, $87 BTC-E, $92 Bitstamp.
Arbitrage, anyone?

Sure, just tell me how to quickly cash out and buy in.

I was sort-a poking fun at the snippet i quoted :)

oic  :D

I have done hundreds of shipped transactions of stickers and shirts.   I am not sure why people think it is not used for legitimate purposes. 

We launched our store the beginning of this month and have since done over 15BTC worth of sales. While this is not a great deal for a store of our size, we are ecstatic with our reception thus far and can only see our sales increasing as we develop a trusted name.

There is a definite demand for goods and services using bitcoin, just remember who your target audience is. The majority of bitcoin users are male, tech-savvy and between 20-30 years old. If your products suit this demographic, and if you market them as a trustworthy and honest vendor, I see no reason why you can't achieve success.

the main reason people think its not used for many legit things is simple.

LACK OF ADVERTISING

i look on all of those map websites advertising bitcoin businesses and yet i do not see very many, which is strange because i know of many bitcoin businesses that are in certain area's that are not on these maps.

there also needs to be a bitcoin edition of 'yellow pages' where it lists all the businesses.

take for instance foodler, they have Food delivery from over 12,630 top-rated restaurants. all indirectly accepting bitcoin. yet i do not see 12k restaurants listed on the maps

The evolution of Bitcoin is pretty crazy.

It was expected to happen less good things with the creation of this untraceable method of payment.

Isn't that right?

is there anyone using the internet, the banking system or the road for legitimate purposes? I've heard lot's of tax evaders use the interstate highway system, and child molesters too. I think the govt should either

1. ) Search every car utilizing the interstate highway system in the name of national security.
2. ) install cameras in every car, which can be monitored by the new NSA data centers.
3. ) Shut down all roads and put up check points manned by the TSA, and only permit cars with a license to pass through, and naturally you'd need a separate license for each state, and for each type and brand of car.

If all else fails, just nuke all the highways from Orbit to make sure.

You can't always blame poor business on one factor alone.Marketing is a huge aspect of any business.

The funny thing is that you see Americans make ridicule of North Korea yet they are subjected to the very same kind of propaganda and the scary part is that they actually believe it.

When the government busts businesses like Liberty Reserve it's not because they don't want people to launder money, it's because they want people to launder money using THEIR freelancers (e.g. the Wall Street) at heightened rates. They are this giant 5000lbs mammoth sitting on your neck and drinking your blood and killing competing mosquitos that happen to want an insignificant part of the action.

Extremely well put!

/thread

www.coingas.com and www.cryptosextoys.com do it right! Did a great trade over the Steam sales period, I take payment directly, handle the conversions and can ever cash out at a profit!

It's possible but you need to really work on the back end more than the front to get your money out.  Maybe being UK based helps also.

True especially for internet businesses, however it is expensive and given the niche market that is bitcoin it is risky to invest when there are just not enough people using it much less for legal or ethical purposes.

Same here (except at the end of our day we have sticky shirts ;))

I don't get it either. I have never bought anything illegal with bitcoins. I seems to me a classic case of picking the most provocative, sexiest narrative possible. Like people who see a blinking light in the sky and assume it to be an alien spacecraft, even though that it the least likely explanation. 

Been using btc for years, haven't even logged into SR. Only for legitimate purposes here.