Bitcoin Forum

The transaction fee for sending Bitcoins is CRAZY! https://bitcoinfees.info/ Over 5$ for EVERY TRANSACTION??? How should Bitcoin go mainstream with SUCH HIGH FEES???
If I want to pay for a 5$ coffee with Bitcoins, then I have to pay THE SAME AMOUNT FOR FEES!!!

Let's make a Bitcoin fee list:

You pay for something worth 5$ in Bitcoin: 100% fee

You pay for something worth 10$ in Bitcoin: 50% fee

You pay for something worth 20$ in Bitcoin: 25% fee

You pay for something worth 40$ in Bitcoin: 12,5% fee

You pay for something worth 50$ in Bitcoin: 10% fee

You pay for something worth 100$ in Bitcoin: 5% fee


Isn't this INSANE??? What if just double the current amount of people use Bitcoin? Then the transaction fees will DOUBLE TOO!!!
The question that we have to ask us is: Why should we use Bitcoin rather then Litecoin, Ethereum, Dash, Monero, Stellar Lumens etc.?
The only reason why so many people are using Bitcoins and not other coins is, that the Bitcoin price increases the most and they make money with it! Do you agree with me guys?



And also, the confirmation time is OVER 30 MINUTES! So when I send a merchant Bitcoins, it isn't certain that he actually gets them! No confirmation = NOT SECURE!

I don't understand why Satoshi Nakamoto made the block size to only 1 mb and the block time to 10 minutes! Couldn't he just calculate, how much the transaction fees will cost with ~30 million people using Bitcoin? And why should merchants accept a crypto currency, with INSANE fees and SLOW confirmations? For low amounts, no confirmation isn't that bad, but for big amounts like phones, it's a BIG RISK! The confirmation time should be AS FAST AS POSSIBLE and the fees AS LOW AS POSSIBLE for mass market adoption! But that isn't the case for Bitcoin...... GO IOTA, GOOO!



PS: Why doesn't the Bitcoin network just increase the block size to 1 TB and change the block time to 30 seconds??? (Or just make it like Litecoin?) (Or make it Proof of Stake?)

Merchants don't care about the fees as you are the one paying it, not the merchants. Most of them have the bitcoins converted automatically to fiats upon receiving it. Those who don't it's because they are themselves bitcoiners

Waiting 30 minutes to confirm a transaction is decent compared with what we have ever seen from time to time. A merchant won't refuse a sale because it's taking 1 hour to confirm.

Bitcoin is not good for making small transactions it's why people buy bitcoins just to store and speculate

Yep and it is getting worse an worse, thanks to Roger Ver spamming the mempool. (We all know he is, don't moawn he isn't)

Yesterday I tries to move 49,25 euro in BTC and the Fee was 22,73 euro !!!!!   (I didn't do the transaction, complete insane)


Let's see where this ends...

I agree! I tried sending btc just a while ago for me to engage in trading, I LOST A LOT OF BITCOINS COMPARED TO WHAT I LOST IN TRADING.

This is what I have also been pointing out.

The whole purpose is to prevent small investors from selling - that way prices can be kept artificially high. In reality it is stealing the profits from the small investors

This is ... Something... Thats the main problem with bitcoins and something that investors.. are trying to solve..well bitcoins...are.. Demanding very high transaction fee also...
Now..' since china ..has stopped providing.. subsidiaries pertaining to the minning of bitcoins thus..now... The transaction fee will sore high..
I don't think thats a good indication.
And I completely agree that its very wrong.. to demand the same fee from different people...
What if..the amount of bitcoins you have .. are the fee that you are going to pay..!?
Its something thats slowly becoming for the rich only.

SegWit is here to solve the high fees problem, the sooner services and wallets start using it, the faster you will notice the low fees. Lightning network is also going to help for doing instant off chain transactions. As for the blocksize, increasing it that much will make bitcoin just more centralized because most of the people won't be able to afford running a full node so only big companies will do that.

I've changed my mind on Bitcoin as a future currency, but it did pave the way for an upcoming standard.  I do believe in Bitcoin though... as others have said I see Bitcoin as gold, a store of value and not a currency.  So thus I don't mind the fees that much since I'm not moving my coin around that frequently. 

You're right.. bitcoin can never go mainstream with the current high fees and confirmation times..
Anyway they can't set the block size to 1TB because it would allow for DOS attacks that will slow down the network, but it would definitely be better to increase it which they did in segwit but its adoption is too slow. They are also saying that the upcoming lightning network would allow us to make small transactions with almost no fee. So in the end they're trying to solve those problems, just hope they don't take so much time.

You can reed wiki's page about segwit for more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SegWit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SegWit)

Yes we need a solution for this , but not like the Segwit dramas played byJihan Wu , Roger Ver Etc.
BCC is not decentralized, It s not the real solution.It will face some of these issues Bitcoin has in some period of time in future.

I convert my holding into litecoin when using exchanges as it is both cheaper and faster. Those high bitcoin fees will kill trading in small amounts.

No.  For low priority transactions, you can pay [ DO NOT POST SESC LINKS ]dramatically less[/url].
It's impossible for double the amount of people to use BTC, because most blocks that can currently be full are already full.  It's impossible to tell how double the number of people wanting to use BTC would affect the fees, because it's primarily about how much those users are willing to pay.
Because it's particularly secure and it has the first movers' advantage.
This depends on what fees you decide to pay.
Because he:

-Didn't know how many people would use BTC
-Left BTC long before the blocks were nearing full
-Wanted to prevent spam in the short term by making it expensive for a spammer to fill blocks.

I agree that the bitcoin fees need to be fixed, as they're way too high.  I also agree that transactions need to confirm faster.

I pay 10-30 Sat/B and I don't think this is too much. People that pay more are either rich or newbies.

If you do not need to have the value of your bitcoin quick in your wallet, why bother paying high fees? I do not pay more than the minimum necessary, I may well expect the value to be credited even if it takes 3 hours or more. Now if you do arbitrage, you have the problem of time, so I think it's fair that you pay a higher fee. Basically who decides the rate is who sends the bitcoin, I always knew that.

Block size increase requires a hard fork which you'd never get consensus on.
Increasing the block size means less people can run a full node, which means fewer and more centralized transaction validation, plus increased costs and bandwidth and more centralized miners. Result is you'd end up with much more centralization and would no longer have a censorship resistant currency.

Additionally you can't just keep increasing the block size to fix the scaling problem.
It's the law of diminishing returns.


Proof of Stake will never happen with bitcoin.
It's way too a radical departure from Satoshi vision and brings new network threats.

Layer2 scaling solutions are the chosen way forward, Lightning Network.
Plus SegWit opens up a lot of flexibility that will reduce costs, but their seems a conspiracy of exchanges and wallets not to create SegWit addresses (like blockchain.info)

It's usually this high when there are a lot of transactions going through and not enough confirmations. Yes, this is a pretty big problem for BTC to go mainstream honestly. Even if I pay $5 for a coffee, I'm not looking to spend any extra fees. I'm not sure how blockchain/BTC will handle this but the fees is one major reason that's preventing BTC from being widely accepted.

The impact of Segwit would have been felt by now and the testing and implementation of Lightening Network would have gone far but for the distractions occasioned by Segwit2x et la. Much as the high fees hurts, I have hope that there's going to be improvement in no distant time since the threat of a split is no longer as potent and and support for it have waned.

One can actually save cost by always settling for the lowest or normal fees set by merchants and have one of the guys here that accelerate transactions for free render you their service.

iam using now since a week dashcoin it has now fees and its a old coin.
for me good soulution for sending but iam still holding my Bitcoin core becourse the cash isnt good !




kind regards

Bitcoin will not suit for micro transactions.Actually,segwit was activated only to solve this issue.It was almost solved but it got collapsed due to the greediness of bitcoin miners and their mentor the bitcoin antichrist Roger ver.We could expect in future that this issue would get solved.

I agree with you, those transaction fees are insane, waiting for segwit adoption... I have some wallets with spare change which I can't sum because of high fees, all those satoshi will be dust. In the meantime, I usually use litecoin or even dogecoin for transfers between exchanges :)

What's with the FUD? https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ shows you can expect to get a 15 sat/byte TX confirmed in half a day or less. Just because you are massively overpaying doesn't mean it's necessary.

Advice:

1. Use a segwit-enabled wallet when possible to reduce your own fee, and reduce fee pressure on everyone.
2. Use a fee estimator tool like the one above to pick a fee that matches you need for speed vs. cost of the TX.
3. Learn to sweep your wallet during quiet times if you have a lot of "dust" inputs clogging it up. (People complaining about $10+ fees obviously have not done a good job of wallet management and can save a lot in future fees by sending a TX emptying their wallet to a new address in the same wallet during a quiet time for a minimal fee. This way future TX will only need to reference the 1 new input instead of a bunch of small inputs, making the TX much smaller.)

I am agree with you it's not worth it to withdraw a big amount of bitcoin coz the fee gets high. What we need is hold our bitcoin and sell those bitcoin when it gets high so we dont have problem in any situation when we withdraw certain amount.

One of the main reasons I started looking at Ethereum. And I am glad I did!

Because if you increase the blocksize to 1 TB, the blocksize will be too big for anyone to run a node except corporations:

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/778/1*hcneYIB5K0XUbI7F48hosw.png

As a result, Bitcoin would no longer be sovereign money, but a money subjected to what these corporations want to do with your transactions. The trust model is broken.

I don't care what satoshi wanted, all I know is I want to keep being able to validate my own transactions.

IOTA, Bitcoin Cash and all of these coins aren't decentralized. There is no such thing as cheap decentralization, unfortunately.

If the fees continue to be high, Bitcoin will not be used for small transactions anymore. People will only use it for larger transactions and to store funds.

This is an opportunity for altcoins to fill the niche created by Bitcoin’s high fees. There are several really good altcoins with low or even no fees. Theses altcoins can be used for small transactions or micropayments. I think this is how it needs to play out in the future.

I was worry about the bitcoin transaction fees from the past two months but from the yesterday I noticed blockchain and coinbase wallets are reduced the bitcoin transaction fees 0.011 btc to 0.0003 btc today. But noticed that bitcoin confirmation time has been increased largely like 55 minutes and more to have the bitcoin to the destination wallet now. Even BCH mining investors now turns their head already to bitcoin. Everything will be get the same as before.

I feel this too, 4 days ago I exchange 1 Eth to Bitcoin and if I total how much Bitcoin I get, I only get about 0.93 Eth, this really surprises me because the fee is very high ...
Thanks for SegWit..

Bitcoin was never to be a currency in the sense FIAT is. You will never use BTC to pay for your coffee. The main purpose of Bitcoin is to be store of value, like gold. Do you use your gold to pay for your coffee? I guess not.
For these day to day uses, get some fast alt like Neo or Ether.

I assume it's only going to get worse as the price of bitcoin continues to skyrocket, and hell yes the fees are ridiculous now.  I would never pay for coffee with bitcoin nowadays,  not that any coffeehouse takes it anyway.   

I'd much prefer to pay with a crappy crypto like doge because of the fees alone make it more suitable,  not to mention that the confirmation time would be much quicker.   As I've said before, bitcoin is great to hold but lousy to spend.  Much easier to spend other cryptos.

If anything was going to kill bitcoin this fee debacle surely will.

BTC has growing, and the fee growing together... Now you have to use other altcoin to micro payment, like Litecoin...

Completely the same on how we gonna set-out our fees depending on our needs and do suits us. Its not really necessary for me to have fast confirmations this is why i dont really worry too much on these kind of things since i can set-out lesser the amount that have been suggested by the network. If its not needed then better to change it and make it lower but if you are in a rush then sacrifice on paying up huge fees which is really a dumb thing for me and wasting off money.

Yes it is, I agree with you. And it seems that the current trend will only make it worse and worse. However I do believe in the future a solution will finally emerge from the current troubles.

transfer and convertion of BITCOIN to fiat really have a huge fee in any country, and this problem must be resolve sooner or later as those app and platform and really on the bad side that collecting fee from us..

Why people always whining that the transaction fees are high? Indeed it pretty high now and it will be higher as the price continues to skyrocket but can you just wait for the segwit and the lightning network to finish and also you can lower your transaction fees although it might take longer to confirm sometimes and if you are using an exchange then stop using it and download bitcoin wallets that enables you to adjust the fees in that wau you can set you transaction fee whatever yoy like.

Well what ever you do, do not use exodus... Sending Bitcoin with exodus is 3 times more then sending with bitcoin core wallet... You don't have possibilty to change transaction fee with exodus as you can with core wallet... If you don't wanna download entier core wallet then use electrum as it is also like 3 times cheaper. Even devs of exodus are telling people to use electrum if they don't wish to pay outrages fees on exodus.

Are you telling to reduce transaction fees by increasing transaction times? Wont that be just increasing one negativity by suppressing the other. People want some thing which can move their money easily swiftly in a nice manner. They dont want high fees for quick transactions or vice versa. This is one of the greatest challenge in front of bitcoin. Moreover it becomes worse when miners dont support things like segwit2x for their own good.

So what is Bitcoin Core doing to solve this too high  transaction fee technical problem?
Since they activated Segwit the fees have still grown higher.

Shoud be a sticky to peoples foreheads.

Fees are going crazy high and lots of exchange website are making this worst, in our country some of store that accepting bitcoin has large fees and also a large amount of minimum payment for just one transaction.

You send 10 000$ , fee is 0.05%
You send 10 000 000$ , fee is 0.00005%

Indeed, outrageous.
Guess I'll start using Moneygram or Western Union for this.


Fees are not going to kill Bitcoin.
At least if you bother to do a bit of research about segwit and LN, rather than posting oneliners.

And we should really have a moderator edit the title.It's so annoying on a 5" display.

Segwit hasn't  fixed the fee problem, and LN is not a Bitcoin Core project, it's another service, a competitor in some ways, unless that's their new strategy, let someone else fix the fee problem by taking clients off the Bitcoin block chain.

Fees are not high, donkeys.

its just beacuse btc is like gold and have all his problem, if you want to make payments using blockchain system you have to use ethereum or other kinda of crypto that allow you to pay fast and with low fee like bitcoin cash too.

Yes bitcoin fees is totally insane now. Price hit breakout price and now miners demand hiigh fees for transactions. The thing is high fees won’t hold your transactions on pending... But hope there will be range fees for the bitcoin transactions really insane fees. Good luck

Fees are really high if compare with small transactions.
Few days ago I was about to pay $20 for something and the fee was about $14. Though the case was different that day (miners move to BCH).

Still I think we need a solution for small transactions, like $5 to $100
I don't know if it is possible or not, it could be better if we had a fixed value for transaction fees. Such as 1000 sats or 5000 sats for per transaction basis.


Your point of view is not invalid. But still bitcoin is being using for all types of uses.

thats a bit backwards. "people buy bitcoins just to store and speculate", and this is why "bitcoin is no longer good for making small transactions". we made it like this, or rather, the new guys.

The BTC block chain is full of SPAM transactions filling up the blocks thus increasing the fees, high fees mean more money for the fee collecting miners, put two and two together.

I see bitcoin as a long-term investment and not as a form of payment, for that I use other reliable alticoins.

It's not an investment, holding bitcoin is not capable of producing more bitcoin ie. interest, it's not a Proof of Stake coin.

you can use altcoin/fiat for transaction, fees is very low
i hope lightning network will implemented for bitcoin, so it will reduce transaction fees

The Lightning Network for Bitcoin already exists, and it doesn't reduce BTC fees at all. It can give you cheap transactions with other peers on the Lightning Network, but all you are doing is bypassing the Bitcoin network until final settlement, then you are back to the same old fees.

The only "solution" I have read so far is to use some other coin than Bitcoin for small transactions. Of course that fixes nothing, it's just admitting defeat.  I would rather see Bitcoin Core alter the code so the miners get less fees, I mean they are already getting coins they mine on top of the fees, so why do they needs the fees?

Satoshi might never thought that BITCOIN will get that popular as currency across the globe. Basically he developed BTC to just demonstrate peer to peer transaction in practical without any third party interference.
Anyways BTC fees really getting crazy, it seems like BTC is not meant for small transactions anymore. Moreover the confirmation time is extending day by day.
I think these are the major reasons for boosting BCH is last few weeks.

This is why Bitcoin must evolve for it to become a viable mainstream currency. Other cryptos have solved the problems that Bitcoin has, I don't see how this can continue indefinitely, something like this can cause they so called bubble to burst

Check the price of those coin that solve the transaction fee problem Bitcoin price is very far from them. If those coins price will become like Bitcoin i bet the transaction fee will rise also. Anyway what i do when i am depositing Bitcoin and if it has a high fee i'll just wait for the transaction fee to lower before depositing money or withdrawing.

We're a long way away till you'll be able to pay for your coffee via Bitcoin, if that ever even happens. I have to agree though, sending insignificant amounts of BTC is unprofitable with such high fees, not much we can do about it currently, since fees are affected by the demand-usage of Bitcoin, which is extremely high due to the latest price spike.

I sent 0.04706 BTC to Kraken two days ago, ($515 worth at that time), for high priority, 2 blocks, I would have to pay $50 in fees, I opted for the lowest priority, 300 blocks, and ended up paying $6 in fees. I managed to get it confirmed by ViaBTC's accelerator, it would take at least 40-48 hours if I hadn't.

You all do understand though that this is because Segwit was slow to adopt, if it wasn't slow to get adopted it would have been lower. I have seen a lowering of fees this past week and I believe this is due to Segwit getting adopted more. If every one gets on board the fees will only go lower, lets adopt baby.

Merchants are in double thinking if they will still continue accepting bitcoin because some are just rather to hold their Bitcoin untill the transaction fee is lower than to send it right away and because some choosing custom way to send the confirmation takes about 4 days or more

Actually fees are good in many ways like if your country need a transaction all over the world.If your problem is fees you can easily direct bitcoin in your wallet like in our country,It's like an easy problem if you search.I think also fees are not the problem because what will happen in crypto if the transaction are no fees or low fees,workers in crypto will not authorized this digital money if that happen.

Not only the fees are at fault here, also the transaction times form a problem for merchants.

this makes zero sense

That is becoming a huge bottleneck for bitcoin'S future. I hope transaction fee problem will be solved in near future.

Hello author I am agree with it's awful 21 century!! My Granny run faster then btc transactions to high fees and nothing behind this! I think its harmony situation if people want money they go on some risks and need understand all the problems and really understand any investment or any crypto manipulations  are super high risky!

It will be solved in the future and that's what I'm trying to hope for too. There are people who are already a Segwit ready wallet to pay lower fees and have faster transaction, I haven't tried it at all but will surely try to use it when there's a need for me to use it. I can feel the pain of sending transaction with too much fee, the higher amount of bitcoin you'll send, the higher fee and size it goes.

The fees are tremendously high and this is the reason why ripple and other coins are experiencing a huge rise recently, and if btc don`t do something for fees its dominance will drop more.

Bitcoin was never designed for sending micro transactions and it will never be. It will be only be worth sending very high amounts and paying high fees. Until the lightning network is introduced which will make the fees a little less expensive.

segwit is not implemented widely because of hidden interests of some groups I am afraid, and lightning requires opening and closing lightning channels for a regular fee. I am afraid we are looking forward to something bigger and more of a breakthrough type. We'll see what happens with time

this is what i afraid withdrawing my btc to another wallet. the fee is almost half my amount that i going to transfer. but ist okay, i will wait for the fee to go low.

Today the bitcoin fees wasnt that high. It was okey for me and the transaction went fast as well.

To avoid the fee you could just import your private key into another wallet. You would avoid all of the transaction fees.

that practice is not recommended unfortunately as it adds new private keys to your previously backed-up wallets, creating security issues. Also, there are a lot of wallets that simply don't support it. You might consider sweeping a private key but you are back at point 1 - it requires paying a fee.

And finally, the hardware wallets that are the most secure and recommended, don't support importing private keys either.

The value and transaction fees of bitcoins fluctuates over a matter of time and it is one of the reasons why the fees are so high, we can definitely kiss goodbye the time when the fees were between $0.30 to $0.50. No wonder there is a lot of traffic in the network thus increasing the fees.

If sending money without worrying about the wait is something that you could do then just send the money with Multibit. They tend to send money with a 0.0001 BTC fee.

It wasn't too long ago those fees were 3 or 4 times that! It's terrible for smaller transactions and who knows if it will stay the future king .. it's certainly opened up a path for other coins to enter the market and offer up their solutions!
For exchanges I end up converting to Litecoin and sending that around

That's one of those reasons that makes me believe that bitcoin will never be credible as a currency

Can't fees just be fixed instead of like this... I couldn't even send 1$ on 10$ that I've had, it's seriously getting ridiculous... Few days ago I was trying to make a transaction via blockchain.info wallet, at the first tiem I've tried min fee was around 340 sat/b, then I've waited for an hour or so and the min was 217 sat/b, then after 15-20min it jumped to 340 sat/b.

No wonder bitcoin has become and investment asset, fees are slowing down the bitcoin progress, everyone would just be better off switching to ETH or some coin like that, as I have, I don't really want to pay $7 fee on my 35$ transaction (tho I've had to).

The Lightning Network is slowly emerging, there is a testnet available and evidently its first pizza has been paid for in lightning-network-sent bitcoins. Even if it is not your thing, some other users will move their transfers into LN, in effect lowering on-chain bitcoin transaction fees too. It is happening just now, as I am writing this post, and the effect should be visible in no time, now.