Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

Is the Ledger Nano S REALLY SAFE ???? Is this the best way to store crypto ?

Is there a chance Ledger has access to our funds ? Are the private keys pre-generated and recorded by Ledger ?

(I like that the Ledger Nano S is 'Tamper Proof' So I can buy one from a authorised seller)

Does any one here use the Ledger Nano S ?

Thank you

Any thoughts anyone ?

You can never go wrong with Trezor or Ledger nano S. No, the private keys are not stored in their servers, they never leave the device and you can wipe and generate new wallet multiple times.

Thanks, Do you use a hardware wallet also then ?

Yes, very interested in nano s, waiting for reviews from users. Also, have anyone already bought a ledger blue??

Hardware wallets are the best way to store cryptocurrencies because of the offer highest level of security. For example, both Trezor and Ledger Nano S require press psychical buttons in order to "send transaction" This can't be skipped by the hacker that gained control on your PC with hardware wallet connected. Ledger Nano S requires PIN code in case you lose your wallet. After three incorrect guesses, the device will wipe itself. Ledger Nano S store your private keys in secure enclave environment - offline. In comparison Bitcoins and private keys stored on an online computer a way more easy to hack and steal.
Ledger Nano S have Anti-Tampering Seal but is highly recommended to buy from an authorised seller (eBay seller could open brand new Ledger and write down private keys then sell and take your funds in future) Ledger Nano S also supports Passphrase - extra addition to 24-word recovery phrase.
Simply saying hardware wallets are built to secure your money and are a safe way to store cryptocurrencies.

I use a Ledger Nano and it is safe in my opinion. The private key stay in the hardware wallet and won’t be exposed when you authorise payment through web browser. A good investment to safeguard our coins.

Any wallet either Trezor, Ledger or keepkey is very safe as it's belongs to the cold wallet types. Which means your private keys stores inside wallet and will be never exposed. Also it's safe to trade because you will have to proof you transaction in the wallet physically. So I think it's worth the money

Hello,
I did just buy a Nano Ledger S from eBay, from this seller : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ledger-Nano-S-CryptoCurrency-Hardware-Wallet-Bitcoin-Official-Distributor-UK/263120752907?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

If you look on https://www.ledgerwallet.com/retailers the seller from eBay, I purchased from is an authorised reseller. Also they have a online store: https://smoothbuying.com

The only reason I brought from eBay is because it is next day delivery for me, and I get no hassle returns if needed.

The wallets you mentioned aren't cold wallets at all. A cold wallet is a wallet which is never connected to the internet (in no circumstances).
With Hardware wallets (Trezor, Ledger, Keepkey) you are able to access your coins at any time (Internet connection + doable on infected PC).


Isn't this the sense of a wallet? Each wallet 'should' never expose the private keys generated within itself.
With a hardware wallet its basically not possible to get the priv key out of the device (assuming there are no bugs/exploits available, which can be the case!).

@OP:
Its perfectly fine to use a HW like ledger or trezor to store your coins (even large amount of coins).

This is not true. The wallet does not come with a tamper proof seal, as it is not required. The hardware checks itself every boot. See their support website here (https://ledger.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005211225-Tamper-proof-seal). An eBay seller could not write down your private key as long as you initialize your device before using it, generating a new set of keys.

So when you get the nano ledger s... as long as you reset it, then your are fine 100 percent right? 

IF you got it from an authorised seller, and you receive a box that is still in it's original packaging, you're safe...
IF you bought it from an unauthorised seller, there is alway the THEORETIC possibility he messed with the hardware and firmware, and when you initialise your hardware wallet without paying attention and testing if the firmware is original, you don't see a random seed, but rather a seed that was generated by the fake hardware from the fake seller (so the fake seller knows you will probably generate one of his 100? pre-programmed seeds).
This option is for the truely paranoid tough :)

Hello,
I did just buy a Nano Ledger S from eBay, from this seller : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ledger-Nano-S-CryptoCurrency-Hardware-Wallet-Bitcoin-Official-Distributor-UK/263120752907?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

If you look on https://www.ledgerwallet.com/retailers the seller from eBay, I purchased from is an authorised reseller. Also they have a online store: https://smoothbuying.com

The only reason I brought from eBay is because it is next day delivery for me, and I get no hassle returns if needed.

As long as it's an authorised reseller, i wouldn't worry to much... I bought a ledger HW.1 and a ledger nano S, and IIRC, the boxes were packaged in plastic, and if memory serves me right, at least one of them had a security seal (on the box). To be honest, i bought both devices when they first hit the market, so it has been a while since i did an official "unboxing". Anyways, if you use the official bootable usb image to initialise your ledger, and you make sure it has the latest firmware from ledger, and use the official ledger chrome plugin to open the wallet for the first time, i think you're very close to being 99,99% safe ;)

The ledger team even has an online guide for opening the case and checking that the hardware hasn't been tampered with.

Thanks :) I didn't know that

Good to know. Thank you for this info!

Depends on how often your hw wallet is being used. The number of write cycles onto the memory cell is the 'crucial' point.
In general they should last 7+ years if you're not using it 24/7.



A nano s isn't a backup. Its a hardware wallet which can be used for everyday payments.
The 24 word seed phrase is the backup of your private-/public keys. This phrase can be imported into any BIP39/44 compatible wallet to 'restore your coins'.

What happens if your ledger nano s no longer works etc?  Could you restore your wallet on a computer if you cannot get another nano ledger s?

You have a buy another one. They don't provide their algorithm to derivate their seed into a valid BTC (or another coin) address.

Well what happens if you cannot buy another one.  Could you restore your wallet on your computer then?

Yes, like this one: https://www.ledgerwallet.com/products/ledger-cryptosteel


This is wrong. Ledger uses the BIP 39 standard. You can recover it with a tool like this: https://iancoleman.io/bip39/
Please don't spread misinformation.

So what program exactly would i need to download to recover btc if the nano ledger s doesn't work anymore and i cannot get anyone?  I assume i cannot use electrum?

You actually can. If you have your backup seed, you can just import them in Electrum with the BIP39 seed enabled and recover your coins.

Okay let me just get this confirmed.  If i get a nano ledger s and then transfer my btc from electrum to nano ledger.  Then my nano ledger no longer works or something like that, i would just have to put that 24 word seed from nano ledger and enter that into electrum wallet and it will be recovered?  Thus its like if i needed to restore electrum again on the same computer or new computer?  I want to make sure of this because i know i would not be able to get a nano ledger s again if the initial one has issues and malfunctions etc.

Yes, because the Nano S uses the BIP39 standard, it is accepted by other wallets. You will be fine. At the very least you can find a tool online to help you recover your wallet.

Anyone knows how is with security if you were using Ledger Nano S on EtherDelta (ED)?
As I heard ED was hacked. Someone replaced their domain with his and he got private keys from users (users typed/generated private key on ED in order to start trading).

So how's that if you were using Ledger Nano S on ED? I understand that he can't confirm transactions since you need to use physical button to approve it.
But did he get your private key/ seed? Could he import that in another Ledger Nano S wallet and send funds from there? Can PIN code prevent that?

Is there something owner of ledger wallet could/should do in this case? Are there any cases in which your private key/mnemoric seed would get exposed and stolen from Ledger Wallet, example: if you are using My Ether Wallet with Nano S and someone would replace their domain?

Yes is the safest, easiest option to store your bitcoin/cryptocurrencies. Your private keys are stored in the ledger and never exposed

Moreover it cannot be tampered since it has 2 different chips

When you generate your 24 word seed on Ledger Nano S this should be written on a piece of paper,make few copy and store in safe place.This seed is not for share with nobody,but if you give this to someone,then it is easy to use that seed to generate your wallet.

You can not import private key in Ledger Nano S,it will only accept seed created by Ledger or Trezor(as far as I know).If you use Ledger with other wallets like Electrum,your private keys/seed is never leaves device and you always need to confirm sending address on Ledger display before confirm sending.

Hardware wallets are best option for keeping your coins safe for long term and also for daily use.

Yes, thats right.
Ether Delta creates the transactions and you have to sign (approve) them via pushing the physical buttons.



In this case he doesn't have any chance to get the seed (or private keys). They never get exposed to 'outside' of the nano s.



No, because look above.
Generally: You dont need a nano s to import the seed and transfering coins. Any BIP39-compatible wallet can do that.



1. This can't happen (look above)
2. The pin code only secures your funds against physical access (thief would have to know your pin code). In a scenario where the attacker has your private key or seed he doesn't need to
access your device since he can easily create transaction by himself (with any other tool/wallet).



Your private key / seed never gets exposed.
However, a 'fake' ether delta would steal your money in terms of taking your deposits and not paying out withdrawals.
As long as you confirm/approve transactions consicious only these 'deposits' would be stolen from you (and additionally your master public key would be known to the fake ED, destroying your privacy).

Thank you very much for this answer!
So if you take good care of private key (mnemoric seed) and PIN there is no way to steal funds from Ledger Nano S. Now I'm even happier that I have it. :)

Hi, guys! I got three Ledger nano s and I got this very interesting question one day when I using it.

What if the manufacturer did something evil? I mean of course you can always wipe the ledger nano as much as you like, and of course, the code of it is open-source online. What if the manufacturer only provides a certain range of words to generate a weak private key, which can be gained by exhaustive attack method? After all, you can only comply with the seed words it provides.

How can we know for sure the ledger nano we have is not provided by evil manufacturers? I mean, you cannot open it and check it thoroughly. I just really curious about this question and it haunted me. Is it possible? And is it possible for some hacker to gain interest with any bug that hides inside this hardware wallet?

Please correct me if wrong. Really appreciated!
 

And what about the official and unofficial wallets?

Of course they can do that, but the real question is why would they do that? Ledger is a serious company and they should have some random quality control to check that everything is ok. You can also send your ledger to a security company to check whether every seems ok.

That isn't strictly true... you don't have to use a seed generated by the device itself.

You can restore any BIP39/BIP44 compatible seed into a Ledger Nano S... so you are free to use another tool to generate a 24 word seed. Theoretically, you could even generate it offline using dice and some maths and then "restore" that seed to the Nano.

Their company is worth billions of dollars so why they have to do something crazy just to destroy their smooth running business. I know you are starting to worry since they are the ones who are manufacturing our nano ledger s'. But to think of it, they have more than our bitcoins so why would they destroy their reputation just for the sake of stealing. I have seen on how they reacted with a reddit complain about a reseller who stole the coins of the complainant and that was a very impressive reply from them, they care for their customers.

I`m regularly using Ledger Nano S and I recommend it. If you have a few hundred dollars worth of coins/tokens, than it definitely worth spending $100 for one. I bought it from the producer, but you can buy it from the reseller as long you initialize the device. NEVER use a Ledger already initialized because you`ll loose your funds!

In theory I guess everything is possible, but I don`t think we should worry about. Ledger is on the market for some time and their codes were checked and deeply analyzed, they probably offered a bug bounty too in order to incentivize people (I don`t know for sure, but I see almost everybody does this nowadays).

Everyone says to buy a hardware wallet. Could anybody explain to me how much of a threat this is? Regarding Ledger (https://twitter.com/evoskuil/status/953455494705774592):


Also this (https://twitter.com/robep00/status/953581833647685632):

Should I spread around the risk and not keep most/all of my coins on a hardware wallet? The idea of keeping my private keys plugged into the USB drive does kind of freak me out.

I think anyone claiming 100% faultlessness is a little deluded. Look at the gaping holes that have been there for years in all of our systems that have only recently been uncovered.

There will be white hat and black hat hackers along with the Ledger developers themselves constantly probing for weaknesses. If they're found then I assume we'll hear about it along with a fix very rapidly.

As of right now the only risks with hardware wallets are from social engineering like people buying from third parties with preinstalled seeds.

This will be the same if you have a laptop connecting it to the web, download wallet --> send funds on that wallet and then stay offline forever for security.

With the given points of Eric Voskuil on his tweet. The only possible risk that we can get through our hardware wallets is through this.

Base on the points there, it will also depend on the computer you're connecting. If you are not that much techie, just don't click anything unnecessary.

Just generate address/private key pairs and keep them safe.

Hardware wallets are probably best for new comers, they are handy and they are compatible with many tokens.

For people that can generate and manage their own addresses safely maybe there's no need for a hardware wallet.

How long does it take to receive it from the official site?

I got mine in one week, but as you can see on their website: https://www.ledgerwallet.com/products/ledger-nano-s, they are our of stock.


So it will take about 2 months to receive it atm. And be careful if you will buy from resellers. (https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7ofrqf/warning_brutal_scam_guy_buys_a_ledger_nano_wallet/)

When exactly did you buy the ledger where you got it that quickly?  Where are you located?

So you would suggest not buying one on amazon.com then right?  So basically as long as you reset it, then its no problem no matter what?

I bought it before the new year, I don't know exact date. (Ledger wasn't out of stock yet at that time.)
Slovenia, Europe.
If you are not in a hurry and you don't need Hardwallet urgently I would suggest you to wait and buy it from Ledger official website.
IMO in a year or two there will be a few more hardware wallets manufactures and their price should go down. (Like USB)
I believe so. Since it should generate new mnemoric seed (private key). But please read more about this, since I'm not sure.

Yes, it can be restored. When you initialize your wallet, you will see the list of keywords that you should to record. And you can to restore the wallet using these words.

   They are out of stocks and you can order it, but they will start
with distribution only in the beginning of April. Prices are going down
and I think I can wait couple more months before I buy it.
   I am from Serbia, that is not so far from Slovenia and on their offical
site with delivery price is 100 Euros, not so much for people that like
to be protected.
   Ledger Nano S or Ledger Blue, I have a bit more time before I make my
final decision. Blue is my favorite! Looks better than any Trezor.

Hi,

have a doubt about the ledger nano s and the 24 word recovery phrase. if the 24 words are already decided beforehand and already assigned to each wallet isn't this is a breach of security? infact if there was an employee or somebody (or a system) detecting what each wallet 24 phrase is , can't it be restored on another wallet and the private keys stolen (and the money)?

or is the recovery phrase chosen by us at the moment , after we open the package?

The recovery phrase should be generated by you... This is usually done when you initialse the hardware wallet. If you receive a hardware wallet that was already initialised, you shouldn't use it (IMHO). Hardware wallets are cheap, you shouldn't buy a used one, but instead buy a new one directly from the company itself, so in case it's initialised you can consider it to be compromised, and you have no idear if the person comprommising the hardware wallet messed with the hardware itself to.

If you don't trust the company itself, you can always use different (offline) tools to generate a seed phrase, and enter this independant seed phrase in your hardware wallet.

BTW: answering to a thread that has been inactive for 6 months is frowned upon. You did the right thing by using the search function and not creating a new thread, but in this case it might have been better if you found a more recent thread or created a new one anyways ;)

thanks for your answer and detailed info!

I'm planning to buy a hardware wallet recently. It's hard to make decision. It seems Ledger Nano S, keepkey and Trezor are all good. But still a little worried about the case that the wallet can be attacked by hackers via usb. I saw a youtube video talking about another brand wallet named Cobo Vault. It only has a charging port. Sounds interesting. Did anyone see this wallet before?

I'd say the best are the nano s > trezor > keepkey (my opinion).

The whole purpose of a hardware wallet is that it can be attached to a malicious computer, and still be safe from funds being stolen.
The reason for that is that the private keys are stored in an isolated environment inside of the hardware wallet.

They can NOT be attacked via USB if they don't have a vulnerability.


I have looked at cobo vault, and IMO this doesn't make sense. They claim that there is no connection to the outside. But i couln't find how transactions are being transmitted/broadcasted.
They claim the updates are done via inserting a SD card. This is the same as via USB. Malware can be transmitted via the SD card.

IMO, a company which claims their wallet is kind of unhackable because there is no connection to the outside, while using SD cards to transmit updates without understanding that this creates the same risks, isn't trustworthy at all.

I would advise to stay with the most known and tested ones (ledger, trezor, keepkey).

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cobo-vault-military-grade-cryptocurrency-wallet#/

According to their indiegogo, "A patent-pending Dynamic QR Code transfers data between hot and cold devices to prevent hackers from capturing it in transmission." I still don't really understand how that is going to work, and surely whatever device you are using to generate or scan QR codes from this Cobo device needs to also be secure? No point having a hardware wallet if all transactions have to go via your mobile phone. I also don't understand how the SD-card-only-updates is supposedly more secure? So presumably you have to download the firmware on to your PC, transfer it on to an SD card, and then insert that card in to your wallet? There are so many potential things that go wrong in that chain of events.

Not to mention that the wallet hasn't even been released yet, so has had no external testing done on it, and they look to be charging somewhere from $300-400 for it. Why spend 4x the money on an untested device when you can just buy a Ledger?

Well, if the ledger nano s in combination with ledger live decides to work again, its fair. But so often it doesnt work, sync, or able to access your funds, its a unreliable piece of shit to me...
Feels like storing your creditcard under the cardbox of the junkie under the bridge as a safe storage...  >:(

Ledger works perfectly fine with ledger live.

You might want to consider creating a new thread containing all relevant information.
There seems to be something going wrong with your setup.

Briefly explain what happens and WHERE exactly it fails, we might be able to help you there.

You have some weird experience, man.
I've never ever had a problem with Ledger Nano S/Live.

Now they paused sync for BCH because of fork, but it's all stated clear in their app and on website.

Wll, here in our family we have 4 ledgers. All of them experience problems every now and then. Is it with failures in upgrading, needing to delete all your wallets due to lack of space and installing them, wallets that are unreachable for over a week due to problems at ledger, synchonisation issues that not all transactions are processed. The latest problem was my DGB wallet wasnt synced for 3 days now, and no support available, only thru Email. Eventually i had to remove a folder and re-sync in again, building a new folder of transactions, and it started syncing again. Pitty though is that i had to find out thru differet forums, instead of the help of the crappy support.. >:(

Failures in upgrading the firmware or ledger live ?

I never had any problems with ledger live and only once a problem with updating the firmware (which could easily be resolved within a few minutes).

AFAIK, there was no firmware update the last few months. These are pretty rarely.




This is not a problem at all.
Since ledger has revamped their code base, you are able to store more wallets on your ledger (especially those which share the same codebase, e.g. BTC and all forks).

The space is limited to prevent malware being loaded onto the ledger (due to low amount of storage available). This is a 'security feature', not a bug/problem.

Uninstalling/installing applications doesn't take longer than 10 seconds..




Didn't face this problem with non-shit-coins (BTC, ETH, etc..) yet.




I haven't faced this issue yet either.

Likewise... I've never had sync issues with the Ledger... but again, I only really use the "Big" crypto like BTC and ETH etc. So, I can't comment on the reliability of some of the altcoin wallets.

Although, I did have one somewhat scary moment a while back when doing a firmware upgrade that "went wrong". It was that one "big" update that seemed to cause a lot of issues for a lot of people (I think it was 1.3 to 1.4? ???). At one point I thought I had bricked the device as it keep coming up with a really weird "update" message on the screen and just wouldn't do anything!!?!. :o

Thankfully, I managed to fix it relatively easily (from memory, it required an uninstall/reinstall of Ledger Manager Chrome app and some button holding while unplugging/replugging the device) and haven't had any issues since.

I would also like to add that Ledger Live seems a lot more "stable" than the old Chrome webapps.

Well, i'm in contact with ledger support for almost a week now (they have deleted their chat support; fantastic customer service... >:( ) and still nothing.
Now, they advise to re-install the old ledger chrome app and connect my devise to synchonise.
I miss my payments for the past week now. Thats not a good feeling i can tell...

Ledger live wont synchronise my DGB wallet, no payments show up.
The app that i installed again, says "this might take a few minutes"and im working on that one for over an hour also. (And needing to login again and again due to timeouts.)

Currently, i have no clue in how to get grip on my funds. It feels like i thrown my wallet into a trainstation, and hope i can get it back with the money still in... Thats about the feeling i've got right now. Not the safe feeling you should get from a expensive hardware wallet....

My recommendation: Let it go, and find a other hardware wallet thats safe.

Ledger seems to have problems with DGB and according to what you describe, they have not yet repaired them. 3 months ago they write to one user :


Digibyte not showing up in my ledger nano (https://www.reddit.com/r/Digibyte/comments/9a6h3t/digibyte_not_showing_up_in_my_ledger_nano_from/)

However you should check that you run latest Ledger Live and latest firmware for Ledger Nano S. If only one coin is have problem with sync that does not mean that this is bad or unsafe wallet. You may buy some other hardware wallet and have same problems, but it is up to you to try with other HW.

I agree that their support is not at the level it should be, actually if you do not find answer to your problem in their FAQ, there is no sense to send them support ticket.

true, thats what i mean... I have had the same problem months ago and couldn't do anything with my dgb's. Comment was indeed something like "hey, shut up, you know we're working on it. maybe next week or so. What's the problem? "

And that is really notdone to a customer in the first place, and second when you have control on someone's wallet containing money.












Stupid french... >:(

i've been woring whole day now to get my coins addesd to my balance.
Can anyone give me some tips or advise?

the coins are transferred to the wallet adress, but the ledger wallet doesnt synchronise. The transaction is visible in the blockchain explorer...

How do i gain control over these funds again?

any help highly appreciated.

Thanks.

If Ledger have problem with that certain wallet and admits the problem exists then you have two options :

1. To wait Ledger fix problem on their side (which can be in a day or in a few months).
2. To use seed from Ledger and find wallet that support that seed so you get access to your DGB.

If you decide for the second step it is important to move all coins you have stored in Ledger to new wallets. Then you can check Official DigiByte Wallets (https://www.digibyte.co/digibyte-wallet-downloads) and pick one which suits you best. From what I see best choice would be Coinomi (https://coinomi.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/29000009716-migrating-from-other-wallets-into-coinomi) or maybe Exodus. When you import seed from Ledger in new wallet you should get access to DGB coins.