Bitcoin Forum

You know, have the correct licenses, etc.  Just curious. 

I bet most of them are in a loophole. They are based on some tax haven and they have all the correct papers to establish a business there but to operate in certain countries you must have a legal license.

In my country, fiat casinos not having a license are blocked but I can access all the crypto ones and that’s just because there is a loophole.

If you want to run such a business,you must have some paperwork.
Even if this business is based in any country of the "tax heaven" ones. The restrictions varies from one country-zone to another but they exist.

In crypto though you have a lot less paperwork worries and that's a fact. At least until now...
BTW you can check out the ToS of any gambling,crypto related site,by yourself. ;)

most of the casino sites operate from some god forgotten offshore country
some of the top dice sites are registered and running without much licensing at all
at least if they had one,they would put it on the front page with huge golden letters 32 pt font size  ;D

Not single of them did already make such act which means its really hard to determine if those gambling sites do really have papers,permits, documentation and other stuff for them to be completely legal. It would depend on the place on where those sites do origin if it do impost strict compliance regarding on tax then might be possible that they did really follow such rules but no one actually knows if you wont really dig deeper.

I must say that you can count on your fingers on how many gambling sites out there which are legal and has the correct documents to backup their online business. I've played with so many gambling sites available in the net and I must say, from my own observation, that almost all of them don't have the necessary documents to practice their business in a legal manner. The government can't do anything about it because they'll just close their existing website and create a new one to avoid the hands of any governing body. Take note that many of them will provide legal documents in their website but I'm sure that it has no bearing if it will be investigated by an attorney or lawyer.

Ahahah! Absolutely none of them I bet! xD

But why would you even care?
After all I'm pretty sure each of those sites aren't even linked to a real company. But whatever, it's not a problem to you. In any way you can't really trust them because everything being in btc they can't be linked to any theft thanks for the anonimity ^^

And whatever it's the same for you, you have complete anonimity and security from the ownership of btc in your wallets.

Big sites would surely have the legal backing because they have the capital to pursue such and that is why they have stayed for in the market. Not all of the sites are legal in my opinion because even the legality of online gambling is still dicey in some jurisdiction as several sites are equally run on a small scale which makes them to get the license so what they do is to copy the symbol and out it on their site.

Because people don't bother with questions, and even the license they quote, you can hardly get enough information about it on the internet, and because they pay out winnings immediately then they are legal. If you looking for legal gambling sites, just stick to the big ones that have stand the test of time.

Almost all the casinos, dice sites cannot obtain legal papers from their jurisdiction.
It is very hard task and also very expensive and that's why almost all are registered through offshore countries.

Not only this, they are hosting their business online through offshore hosting companies afaik.
There is limited hosting companies which allows gambling businesses.

Maybe some are legal. I am talking about fiat based casinos not btc.

Hi.

I recomend bizstars is a good casino and i play on it since at least two years..

Check it maybe it can give you some winnings.

Good day.

I would bet that most bitcoin casinos and dice sites that popped up over the past couple years probably don’t have proper licensing, if there even is any. I have  been very interested in the subject, at least here in America I’m not sure how it works. I myself had interest in starting up a site like this, But a few years ago in American on this forum by the name of micon, Got his door kicked in and his site shut down. Not sure if it had anything to do with the licensing dispute but it sure was a big deal for Americans who wanted an open up a coin gambling site.

Most of the cryptocurrencies gambling sites, either are illegal( you don't even know who is running the site, so it would be impossible to find and punish those who run the illegal site), or they run a partly license under a country who has a very confort law for gambling sites, such as Andorra, or Isle of Man, that accept any kind of gambling sites, and also banks in those countries won't do any problems as tax rate in such countries is very low.

no need to struggle to find a legal site,
just get a proven site pay and have it guaranteed there you can get what you want if you want to do gambling.
because legality does not need to be here
here we are all anonymous

This is more about starting my own up.  I guess you would have to pay for a license for each country you were allowing people to gamble from.  Get a license from the UK and redirect anyone from anywhere else away.  I suspect you would just need a US one to make a living but they probably do it by state, which makes it even more complicated.

There is no crypto currency in the world, there is no need to license any country's work.
You observe in practice the formation of a world economy that is not tied to a specific government and its laws.
There comes an era of trust/not trust based on feedback and brand value.

Many crypto based casinos are running without any licenses, only few of them have KYC requirement and gambling license.

If casino is not offering any fiat based games or games from licensed third party providers there is no need for them to maintained any valid gambling license.

The licenses don't mean anything.
If they leave with your $, you can't do anything. Despite the license.

Every site must have to register a domain with registrar. So do every casino or dice site must register to get their gambling license so that they get a legalized and they have to pay taxed to the govt each year and also keep record of its profit and loss.

They are completely legal, as they do not violate the laws of their jurisdiction.
They do not need to buy licenses and pay taxes.
The server, the Internet and the software product are all that is needed for a full-fledged work.

If you explain us what you mean with correct licenses, I could help you better? Based on my experience, there are no correct licenses! The license itself might be correct from a juridical point of view in some cases, but how does this help you if you get the runaround when help is needed?

Unlike more important is that the operator is since a while on the market and works correct.

I would prefer a solid,trusted,paying dice site without a license
to a licensed casino that introduces shady bonuses,then requires KYC if you win and withdraw anything substantial
I know,for example,if I win 10 bitcoins at Primedice
I will get paid,no questions asked,no background checks and no documents asked :)
so a license doesn't mean legit and viceversa

So what are the chances of getting busted if you set up a site?  Whats the best country to host it?  Whats the best coins to accept?

I think you might find a few sites licensed out of a small country like Curacao for example, but honestly it doesn't mean much. What people should be looking for in Bitcoin sites (provable fairness) is different than what people should be looking for in regular casinos (regulation & licensing).

If you have a fake license then it will likely be found by the gamblers trying out the site. For sure there are those curious ones that would likely check the legitimacy of everything before they even try to deposit into that casino. I don't think also that competing casinos will also allow such a thing and they will likely want to kill off competition and by proving that they have fake licenses then it would be a negative for that casino.

Well in our country gamblings or such other businesses always needs business permits, licenses or such because even just a slight violations will be penalized. Practically you'll be able to meet taxes from time to time in whatever you do. Which is why a lot of those dreaming to establish their gambling sites starts right here because of less paperwork and no taxes, you only need to do a lot of research and do your homework here.

This seems to be how the whole cryptoworld functions nowadays. Licenses mean shit because virtual currencies themselves are in the gray area in many if not most countries or even outright banned. It is the same with cryptoexchanges, being licensed doesn't prevent them from being hacked or whatever. Was Cryptsy licensed? I dunno but the owners still ran away with the money of their clients. Some of these bastards eventually got caught but it didn't change anything in the end.

Actually if the casino have license than that doesn't mean they can't scam you by altering their terms and conditions. When you want to play with crypto than its might be best to play in casino without any license so you will not be liable of any type of legal issues. If you are gambling with bitcoin than you might also want to hide your identity.

Casino offering provably fair games + good trust + exit for years is enough to play with.

Found this about bitcoin casino + licenses, might be worth for reading https://bitcoingamblingreviews.com/bitcoin-casinos-licences/

i think the license is important no matter which country you belong to . Its really important that the a person has all the paper work to start such a work. But, still with all these license and paper work the casinos scam. So, people should watch out for that.

I am willing to bet " pun intended lol " that many of this sites are not regulated by the American government or any government for that matter.  I think many of this are run by early bitcoin investors who now have alot of bitcoin funds. This allows them to bank roll all operations smoothly.

even with proper paper work ect make sure they give money and people have had sucess as some of the sites are not us bound or w/e country. can leave like that and nothing u can do.

I think there is just a few who have full documents to operate gambling sites. You could tell by the name gambling, yes some can win but many will lose and that alone makes them hard to comply to make papers and documents to make sites for gambling. Eventhough there are more gambling sites that have enough documents it is really hard to know which sites are legal and not.

I think most of the gambling sites are legal in EU countries or USA. So I do not think they are many illegal sites there.

They 100% legal (some of them) they runing from country wich allowing online gambling or have no policy or rule for it. for US some state make rule for online casino and ban it

This is true to be honest, the most thing on bitcoin dice sites here are about trust, population about how many players gamble on that dice sites and promotion. I don't know is this also apply to bitcoin sportsbook, but nitrogensports who is not licensed (cmiiw) is very popular bitcoin sportsbook.

Agree with you.However it is not their fault entirely,bitcoin itself is under a big loophole when it comes to regulations.It's hard to make a law against the services that use the parent entity.

Most of the gambling sites go register themselves with some 3rd world countries where the government isn't aware or doesn't have any laws with cyber crimes.The legit sites have warnings such as "American Players Are Not Allowed".

I think if an online casino operates longer than 2 years than it's legal, otherwise authorities would find a way to deal with it. Where it is legal is another question. Like above posters said they may be registered in offshore countries and then, technically you don't have the right to play there if it's not permitted in your country, but of course gamblers can find a way to go round the restrictions. :)

No. How can a casino be "legal" without the proper paper work and licenses even if it operated for more than 2 years?

But with that in mind, they are not "illegal" either. They are in the gray area, and in the same situation with Bitcoin exchanges.


It is easier to go around the hoops with Bitcoin which makes it the future for online gambling. :)

I would say most of these Bitcoin gambling sites are unregulated. Think about it, if BTC is unregulated for even normal businesses obviously it is going to be regulated for the gambling ones.

I always advise others and even myself to trust sites that are having strong paperwork and government licenses supporting their project work. People and employees would like to work on the project that is liked and supported by the government. I have heard many sites that are running on the Loopholes and I don't support or indulge on those sites as they are against the government.

I think users should care more about whether a casino illegal or not, rather than whether it's legal or not. Like it is stated in the The Ethics Of Capitalism: `If It's Not Illegal, It's Legal'. If something is not prohibited by the law, you can do it. That's why I think when a casino is operating longer than 2 years it means that there is no legal basis to close it in the given territory.

I think it is a little more intricate and complicated than that. What I mean is that a casino may be illegal in one jurisdiction, as many online casinos are in the US and Canada, and totally legal in some other. So you can't just say if it's not illegal, then it's legal. There are more options available because it can be both legal and illegal at the same time very much like the famous Schrodinger's cat which can be simultaneously dead and alive.

The biggest ones, often requiring identification too, are mostly legal.
The vast majority of the smaller ones definitely aren't though and with a good reason: It's way too much work for a small casino!

Anyways, like others have said, it differs per country. Not only your's, but also the country the casino is being operated from. I'd say it doesn't really matter though.
You can probably trust the bigger ones that they got the right papers and the smaller ones most likely won't be shut down by the government either.

Anyways, back to your question: Big ones, a lot. Small ones, almost none.

Cryptocurrencies especially make it easy to avoid going through the legal work.

LOL did you seriously just compare a simple question about online casino legality to the incresibly complex problem of Schroedinger's Cat?
Again, LOL

That is funny, but you do have a point. Depending on which state something can be considered illegal in the state but federally legal, and vice-versa.

I do not think that you can say like that easy, there are many sites that operate more than 2 years turn out scam everyone out, saying that they being hacked or say any other thing which is unreasonable. You need to have some solid proof for this license but in bitcoin industry I do not think that they want to give out the real data because we need this anonymous

I think you are wrong on this matter. Take Primedice as an example. It is forbidden in USA to gamble online, but that's not the matter now. The casino is registered in Japan (form what I've found on the Internet), where some forms of land-based gambling are allowed and "Japanese government allows online betting for lottery, soccer toto, and public sport". I don't think dice is any of the above and yet, as the law on gambling is enforced rarely, they keep going.
Even if I'm wrong about PrimeDice, I am sure most of casinos are operating half-legal, mostly being registered in the countries without certain laws on gambling.

We can't really count how many sites are legal. It depends on how you see this. It is consider legal as long as there is no violation in any laws, paid taxes or atleast has papers to proved that their government or jurisdiction allow them to operate like liscenses. But in my opinion to be sure that the casino you want to play is considered legal is by the length of service and the place where it put. Like near cities or easy to locate.

I certainly understand what you are getting at, but I still have to disagree with you. Sometimes, legality issues are no less complex than the problems of quantum mechanics, which a problem of Schroedinger's cat belongs to, up to a point where two courts of law resolve a dispute with two opposite decisions on what otherwise would be the same case. Personally, I can't give a better analogy that demonstrates the complexity of such issues. As to me, it fits perfectly. The judicial cat is both dead and alive at the same time.


You're welcome

Well firstly you must ask yourself what makes a casino legal? You do not need a license for crypto currency casinos since bitcoin is not recognized as an official currency therefore there no laws about it. Some call this a loophole. It is not a loophole it is simply the law and how it works. Just as well for crypto casino owners since licenses are very expensive. Also there is high anonymous activity on crypto casinos and so they don't have to worry about underage gamblers nor can they get into trouble for having underage gamblers because they not supposed to he gambling and you take an agreement before you okay that says you are if legal age for your duristriction.

I think I can. If an online casino is illegal in the US then it's illegal in the given territory. As simple as that. Yes, you can play there using VPN or whatever, knowing that it's a minor crime and even in the worst case scenario you won't be punished hard, but you can't say it's legal and illegal simultaneously.

If smoking weed is legal in Amsterdam you can't do it in the United Arab Emirates saying " it's legal and illegal simultaneously", you risk to spend several years in jail if you get caught with weed there.

Licenses and permits I think is not necessary when it comes to cryptocurrency in which everything you do in the real world has permits and licenses issued by the government. Everything you do will be monitored by the government. Unlike here you just need to possess a good skill set where you can develop your own program and the mindset not to trick or fool someone providing a reliable transaction.

Technically speaking if you run an online betting site that is accessible from the UK then you need a license from the UK government.  I don't really think it matters if its BTC or not?

But right now few are running from offshore countries and have no legal paper works just because of this they need to change terms mostly as new laws coming in few countries if any site have license surely they are going to post this on front page with Golden words but currenlty no site done this

Well, there seems to be a loophole, because in my country you also need to get a license to operate in it and if I try to sign up a site without a license I can’t. However, I’m able to access crypto sites.

I researched information on the subject and what seems to be happening is that as cryptos are not considered legal tender, there isn’t a clear ban on them, although some jurists would say that they need the same requirements as fiat sites. In the meantime, we can access them.

I guess most of the casinos don't have complete papers to run their bsiness and they still have legality issues I'm sure there is a restrictions with regards to game to be played which these casinos did not declare upon application for permits. But they are legal in a sense that governments know they are operating.

But this is not what you were saying at first. You said that some Ethics Of Capitalism declare that "if it's not illegal, then it's legal". Obviously, this is not that simple and definitely not universal. Now you come to say that it depends on territory. Well, what about gray areas then? Then again, in many jurisdictions anything is far from being legal just because it is not officially illegal.

On the other hand, weed is allowed in many States and forbidden in many others, so what about the whole US? Can we say whether it is legal or not in the US without going specific? Can't we say that weed is both legal and illegal there?

All right, let's paraphrase The Ethics Of Capitalism: `If it's not illegal in a given territory, it's legal there'. That's what I meant from the beginning. I thought it's obvious that when we are talking about legality of something we mean legality in a given territory. How else could it be?

Yes, we can't  say whether something is legal or not in the US without going specific. We should always specify where, because the laws in different states are very different.

But this so-called Ethics Of Capitalism is not a law code, is it? What I mean to say is that this system is not a given. I mean in certain territories or jurisdictions something which is not declared as illegal by the law is not automatically legal. I don't know how this thing is properly called, but it is definitely far from being universal. To cut a long story short, there are gray areas where something cannot be called either legal or illegal. That's why it can be sort of dead and alive at the same time just like Schrodinger's famous cat, to wit legal and illegal.

For me i dont know how to identify the correct license but in terms of saying how to determine the gambling games like casino is legal is if they operate the gambling area or games without an pending warrant or closer coming from the government notice,for me this is the way to determine that there gambling site's is legal.

I think you are wrong here. With proper legal proceedings you will never be put in jail for doing something which is not declared as illegal. The prosecutor should say what law have you broken or otherwise you are free to go. If someone says "I'm innocent" then he's innocent unless it is proved otherwise. ...

If you can provide any examples to prove your point, namely that  "there are gray areas where something cannot be called either legal or illegal.", please do so, because I don't think there are such areas.

Well, it seems that I have already given such an example before, but never mind since we don't have to go look out for some obscure examples that prove my point. Basically, Bitcoin itself as well as other coins is unregulated in many jurisdictions, so the whole cryptomarket may be a gray area in these countries. It may not be explicitly forbidden or prohibited, or whatever, but good luck to you trying to openly sell bitcoins in such countries as Iceland or Russia.

So Bitcoin is just that, a gray area of sorts.

You deserve it need a license because it's crypto. What do you mean by legal? According to what laws? It depends where the server is hosted and where the domain is. This is why many people living in the USA register and use domains and web hosts outside of the USA so they don't have to worry about all the different laws as much. I think we should rather worry about casinos paying out then any laws broken because I can't see any law worse to break the  casino stealing from you. Not having the right licenses is one thing but a cheating casino is another. Let's focus on one problem at a time.

I have no information on Iceland, but what about Russia? As far as I know you can easily sell and buy BTC in Russia. According to this wiki article Bitcoin is not illegal in Russia and we have bitcointalk forum members from Russia who, I'm sure, can confirm that they can sell/buy Bitcoin openly there.

Here's the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory

Have you heard about the whole Btc-e affair? Why do you think this Russian exchange had been located somewhere in Eastern Europe, in Bulgaria or Czech Republic if I remember correctly? Why would they ever risk being caught by the FBI if Bitcoin was actually allowed in Russia? As far as I know Bitcoin is not officially illegal there but this doesn't prevent local courts from banning a few dozen Bitcoin related resources and sites at one go. This is an obvious example of what you would call an ultimate gray zone or area where something which is not illegal is not legal either. It is sort of neither dead nor alive.

So how's your Ethics Of Capitalism doing?

I think we still need to hear from people living in Russia about the legality of Bitcoin and crypto exchanges there.  Btc-e was closed down by the US Justice Dept for operating international money laundering scheme and laundering funds from the hack of Mt. Gox. It has nothing to do with legality of Bitcoin in Russia, as far as I know.  There were talks in October that Russia's central bank is planning to ban access to Bitcoin exchange websites, but from what I know things are still where they started.

I think there is no websites have licence for this bitcoin gambling. Most of them are outlaw.