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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 09:04:55 PM



Title: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 09:04:55 PM
I promised you guys at least a 3 day heads up warning for any coin I launch and here it is.

The coin will be Nuggets (The first true Miners' Coin) and I am designing it from the ground up, with lots of feedback from many miners and before all else, with the average, struggling miner in mind.

Every coin out there focuses on everything and everyone else but none out the miner first - the lifeblood of any successful coin - yet the masses - the large majority of miners get no real specific edge or benefit for their efforts and contributions.

I wanna change all that!

Nuggets will have no premine, no instamine (the first true fair launch per the people's specs and demands, and not my own desires and so fair that Miners even chose the name no sneak launch, as promised a minimum 3 days heads up for hackers to kill the coin if this is another CrapCoin) and I will add a new feature [I learned in Economics and Finance back in College years ago) never before seen or heard of, called the VGB protocol, which I will detail right before launch so prevent theft before my own launch.

On a % basis the VGB Protocol will favor and more generously reward the smaller miner - the smaller the miner the nicer and more rewarding the benefit.  It will also help the solo miner but also the pool miner.

The higher the difficulty goes - this new, never thought of feature (the VGB protocol) will ensure and guarantee that mining a high difficulty coin will not result in a boring flatline effect, which many coins are now plagued by and as the masses come in, mining will become more boring and less and less rewarding - so this VGB protocol will greatly help with this fundamental flaw in all coins out there right now. 

I guess it took an Economist to see what very smart computer guys, programmers and hackers missed all this time.  lol.

This new VGB feature will make mining more interesting, unpredictable (in a good way) and more fun and exciting for everyone - but especially for the average and smaller miners.

It will be fully inclusive - meaning big miners will be happy to mine it while small miners will be even happier to mine it.   It's a win-win coin for everyone involved.

The distribution of the coin which not all may love this particular idea will be like this, and this is where you have to give me a bit of trust, because this is also meant and designed with the smaller miner in mind although once again, this is a democratic coin and i promise nobody will be excluded. 

In discussing ways to level the playing field, "Zas" suggested rewarding all miners with 10% of the mined coins straight across but that would be impossible to code and it's ripe for abuse but I love the idea so much that I can't let it go.

So here's my plan:  I get 1% of mined coins (no premine and no instamine), miners get 89% of all mined coins and then 10% of all mined coins will be put in either an escrow account or a specific wallet which can be verified by everyone and anyone to show I'm not spending it.  I promise full disclosures and full oversight in any way you guys choose to implant such a watchdog.

Once we can all come to some fair understanding I will then distribute ALL of those coins, every penny back to the miners.  So then the miners get 99% of these coins but the idea is that this 10% distribution will be a flat reward which means that even the big miners get a reward but the same exact (flat) reward will be given to the small and smallest miners so on a % basis, relatively speaking, the small miners will feel a much greater benefit.

The idea is to help newbies and small guys who can't afford to keep buying hardware - this 10% reward, combined with my VGB Protocol, should really help the fast majority of miners, especially the smaller struggling miners, before the masses of people come online probably next year and you all lose the control you none possess to make a coin especially for yourselves. 

This is a win-win for everyone and I will do anything it takes to show people this is not a pump and dump.  I will do all I can to put the power and the reward system in the hands of the miners. 

This is the first coin which gives a damn about this alt community and so this coin is made specifically with the miners in mind, before all else and if it succeeds many small miners should see immediate and wonderfully uplifting benefits which will help many of you reach the next level of income and revenues. 

Good luck guys!


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Eli0t on July 12, 2013, 09:08:28 PM
KFCoin yum, but interesting on the small miner bias


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 09:14:39 PM
KFCoin yum, but interesting on the small miner bias


Lol. KFC...it's supposed to be gold or coal nuggets since its a miner coin but I thought about chicken nuggets too and wait until the exchange name pops up (NUG) all the pot lovers will buy it up.  Lol.

Pretty much every aspect of this coin was chosen by the people.  Except the VGB Protocol which is something I learned in Economics many years ago.

Thanks for chiming in.  Would you support this coin if it took 10% out for the miners, while leaving 89% for the miners as well?

And of course, I know people wanna hear what this VGB protocol is first and I'll let that be knows soon.  But I think most people if not all will love the idea.

Nothing like that exists which shocks me.  Perhaps since I'm an Economist I think on a different level while most people here are too technical to think up something like the VGB.

Thanks for your input, bro.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 09:17:44 PM
I gotta step out for a couple hours guys.

I'll check back in.  Please post your support, opinions, criticisms, and any last features you'd love to see and if I can afford to add it I will.

I keep asking but nobody will speak up.  This is the miners coin, make it your own, make it the best it is.

Like the design - I want the best coin in the world as far as looks go, that's my face, your face.

All coins out there are Mickey Mouse - copy cats of bitcoin which itself had a lame design.  I want memorable originality I want people to love the coin the second they see as when the masses come in next year many will buy a coin based on the name and looks alone.

Holla back!


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: simichent on July 12, 2013, 09:18:42 PM
sounds interesting


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 12, 2013, 09:31:00 PM
Cryptocurrencies aren't supposed to be a get-rich-quick scheme for miners. Miners exist to secure the blockchain for the currency. Getting that backwards does not sound like a good idea.

Quote
So here's my plan:  I get 1% of mined coins (no premine and no instamine),
lol
Quote
miners get 89% of all mined coins
That's even less than currencies that don't revolve around miners btw.
Quote
and then 10% of all mined coins will be put in either an escrow account or a specific wallet which can be verified by everyone and anyone to show I'm not spending it.  I promise full disclosures and full oversight in any way you guys choose to implant such a watchdog.
I do not follow. This also doesn't sound like much of a decentralized trust-not-required currency (as in, a big reason many of us like bitcoin).


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Lauda on July 12, 2013, 10:44:49 PM
So of the details need to be worked out, at-least in the post, but sounds interesting  8)


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 10:50:22 PM
Miners would essentially get 99%, the 10% would be set aside for miners to help level the field a bit while never excluding the large miners.  It's win-win for everyone.

And why is 1% funny?  You think devs work for free?  Most take much more than 1% via many clever schemes.

At least I'm being forward.

Here's the problem thought regarding the 10% set aside for the miners.

I talked to the programmer and he's saying it can't be set aside in a special wallet, at least not in an easy affordable way.

So the only option now is a premine of 10% which would be put in either an escrow, a public wallet with anyone being able to view it or any other option you guys can think of.

I really don't want to walk away from the 10% idea csuse it would really help everyone but especially then smaller and new miners - relatively speaking.

Can anybody suggest a better solution as I really want to avoid a premine. 

And if there is no other option than a premine would most people here be ok with an escrow account or a premine which would go into a public wallet monitored by miners until minder decide the best way to distribute the coins? 

I'm ok with any way you guys want but I'd prefer to not abandon this 10% idea as it would greatly benefit the average and smaller miners.

Anybody?  TIA


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 10:53:50 PM
So of the details need to be worked out, at-least in the post, but sounds interesting  8)

This is the money's coin, you guys need to tell me ASAP what would make you guys happy.

I can eliminate the 10% but it would be such a list benefit to you guys.

And wait until I release the VGB protocol - that's the cake with the 10% distribution being the icing on the cake.

I promise there's nothing out there right now, no coin that was designed with the miner in mind like this coin.

And of course, devs design a coin to maximize their control over that coin and their profits, shirt term or long term.

I'm going against the Status Quo with this coin - and if you wait to hear the full details I'm sure you'll all agree.  Well, most, cause some will hate no matter what.  Lol


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vivisector999 on July 12, 2013, 11:01:16 PM
Dump the 10% plan.  It's only going to tick people off, and won't end up helping small miners as it is way to exploitable, and also centralizes a decentralised coin.  I still want to here what this big VGB idea is all about.  I really hope it's not a flop of an idea.  Hopefully the programmers will talk some sense into you if it sounds to screwy :).

 


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: markm on July 12, 2013, 11:04:13 PM
How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:18:55 PM
Dump the 10% plan.  It's only going to tick people off, and won't end up helping small miners as it is way to exploitable, and also centralizes a decentralised coin.  I still want to here what this big VGB idea is all about.  I really hope it's not a flop of an idea.  Hopefully the programmers will talk some sense into you if it sounds to screwy :).

 

Well, so far the programmer who has already launched other coins said the VGB idea as really nice.  And he also said my ambitions are too high and I'd need more money and more programmers.

So this confirms to me that I'm serious about this and don't just want a jack job crap coin.  But where am I gonna find more great programmers and I don't even know how much more money we're talking about.

I really wanna do this right but it doesn't seem possible.  I hate to launch another CrapCoin, I hate the idea of mediocrity. 

And I have to apologize to guys like MarkM ahead or time cause I respect the guy and like him and he got upset when he heard o was launching another crap coin.  But what can I do if I can't even find enough pro programmers and don't even know the cost. 


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:21:59 PM
How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.  The distribution of the 10% if I have to premine it is the hard part, cause I don't want to premine but the programmer said that's the only feasible affordable way and that my plans are too ambitions.

Come on MarkM, help me not launch another crapCoin.  Help me with just the idea of how to distribute this 10% to the miners in a fair way without premining cause right now it will have to be premined and that's gonna look like a pump and dump and I hate the very idea.  Thanks for your help.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vivisector999 on July 12, 2013, 11:31:15 PM
I hope you realize, I am being critical on you because since I named the coin, I feel like I have a tie or lifeblood with it.  Not like it's mine or anything, but kind of like when you go on a summer vacation and meet your cousins that live 1000 miles away, that you knew existed, but you actually never met before.

Thus no matter how silly it is, I will more then likely mine it.  How much I will mine it is questionable, but I will def be mining it, so I am hoping to steer it away from having really wonky ideas.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: ohiwastedmylif on July 12, 2013, 11:53:43 PM
You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:53:57 PM
I hope you realize, I am being critical on you because since I named the coin, I feel like I have a tie or lifeblood with it.  Not like it's mine or anything, but kind of like when you go on a summer vacation and meet your cousins that live 1000 miles away, that you knew existed, but you actually never met before.

Thus no matter how silly it is, I will more then likely mine it.  How much I will mine it is questionable, but I will def be mining it, so I am hoping to steer it away from having really wonky ideas.

The name came from brainstorming and a number of people had a hand in it.  Nuggets stuck and yes, if this coin takes off you get the honor for naming it.  I could have named it myself but I felt like a miner's coin should be named by miners - since the beginning I've been trying to do what's right and it seems like some people just hash away on me regardless of how hard I try to do what's fair and right by everyone.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: zackclark70 on July 12, 2013, 11:56:21 PM
when its up I will run a giveaway for you if you provide the coins  :)

I would also suggest posting the ann on www.altcointalk.co.uk


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:57:12 PM
You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Begging?

When you pay someone to do something it's not begging.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak and then pay for it would you like it if some guy outside told people you were in there begging for food?  Hardly!

These are not junk developers.  They have experience launching other coins and they're actually the most expensive here.  I could have gone with the cheaper guys but I thought I'd get more from going with someone with integrity and experience.

The longevity depends on the adoption rate and if people like what the coin offers.  I'm looking at it long term, for years to come of the govt allows it that long.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 12, 2013, 11:58:25 PM
when its up I will run a giveaway for you if you provide the coins  :)

I would also suggest posting the ann on www.altcointalk.co.uk

I won't have any coins since there's no premine.  It seems like people are agent even the 10% premine which would then go right back to the miners.  Sad, many miners could benefit.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: ohiwastedmylif on July 13, 2013, 12:03:57 AM
You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Begging?

When you pay someone to do something it's not begging.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak and then pay for it would you like it if some guy outside told people you were in there begging for food?  Hardly!

These are not junk developers.  They have experience launching other coins and they're actually the most expensive here.  I could have gone with the cheaper guys but I thought I'd get more from going with someone with integrity and experience.

The longevity depends on the adoption rate and if people like what the coin offers.  I'm looking at it long term, for years to come of the govt allows it that long.

When you say hey I sent you pm's answer me, hey who else can do it, hey help me build this. I don't have a job, you charge too much. I consider that begging. Your example is completely irrelevant and baseless.

My rationale is that if you yourself are unable to do anything, and require third party resources to develop, how do you get from alpha to beta to release etc. I am assuming you are contracting out the initial job but it will be most beneficial to have the OG dev on-board to continue development. Are they on-board as well and are committed to long-term development?

Your attitude makes me especially not want anything to do with this.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 12:08:23 AM
You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Begging?

When you pay someone to do something it's not begging.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak and then pay for it would you like it if some guy outside told people you were in there begging for food?  Hardly!

These are not junk developers.  They have experience launching other coins and they're actually the most expensive here.  I could have gone with the cheaper guys but I thought I'd get more from going with someone with integrity and experience.

The longevity depends on the adoption rate and if people like what the coin offers.  I'm looking at it long term, for years to come of the govt allows it that long.

When you say hey I sent you pm's answer me, hey who else can do it, hey help me build this. I don't have a job, you charge too much. I consider that begging. Your example is completely irrelevant and baseless.

My rationale is that if you yourself are unable to do anything, and require third party resources to develop, how do you get from alpha to beta to release etc. I am assuming you are contracting out the initial job but it will be most beneficial to have the OG dev on-board to continue development. Are they on-board as well and are committed to long-term development?

Your attitude makes me especially not want anything to do with this.

Who's developing Bitcoin, Satoshi?

The community.  Or do you expect a dev to get 1% and then spend 16 hours per day here, pay a programmer and work for free or on 1% of nothing.

You guys are joking. 

And trying to find the best deal is not begging when you're on a limited budget.  And not getting responses from 2 guys doing this for a living for 3 days is not normal so asking why, respond to my emails is not exactly strange.

If this isn't the coin for you then choose another, there's plenty more where the devs are making tons of money yet nobody seems to complain over there.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: jubalix on July 13, 2013, 12:15:26 AM
Cryptocurrencies aren't supposed to be a get-rich-quick scheme for miners. Miners exist to secure the blockchain for the currency. Getting that backwards does not sound like a good idea.

Yes Yes CC are get rich quick scheme thats there main attraction to many.....


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 12:20:07 AM
I'm interested in more information about your VBG or whatever, but a few things first

1) Having a premine without set bounties accouting for 100% of the premine is going to garner negative attention, which is going to make you seem greedy and your coin look like a pump and dump, which you obviously want to avoid
2) Having a % go to a communal wallet, or to anywhere else for that matter causes the entire idea of a decentralized currency to become centralized, ruining the whole point of cryptocurrency
3) Having 1% go directly to you will also be seen as greedy. People want to mine for themselves, not for you. If you want 1% of what is mined, then run your own pool and charge 1%


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: zackclark70 on July 13, 2013, 12:22:27 AM
when its up I will run a giveaway for you if you provide the coins  :)

I would also suggest posting the ann on www.altcointalk.co.uk

I won't have any coins since there's no premine.  It seems like people are agent even the 10% premine which would then go right back to the miners.  Sad, many miners could benefit.

giveaways are always good for a coins image  :) never mind I will have to buy some of the first miners


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 12:29:27 AM
And why is 1% funny?  You think devs work for free?  Most take much more than 1% via many clever schemes.

At least I'm being forward.

Here's the problem thought regarding the 10% set aside for the miners.

I talked to the programmer and he's saying it can't be set aside in a special wallet, at least not in an easy affordable way.
That last part is easy, just make every new block generated generate new coins to some fixed address. Not that I think that's a good idea at all.

A decentralized cryptocurrency is a protocol, not so much a product. Can you imagine if the inventor of the file transfer protocol specified in the standards that when he connects to a server, it should allocate more bandwidth to him? I could see someone doing that with a specific ftp server they release, but shoehorning centralization into a protocol means you've lost the most revolutionary thing about bitcoin there.

How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.
I can't imagine any way to do that which wouldn't be trivial to subvert.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 01:01:14 AM
I'm interested in more information about your VBG or whatever, but a few things first

1) Having a premine without set bounties accouting for 100% of the premine is going to garner negative attention, which is going to make you seem greedy and your coin look like a pump and dump, which you obviously want to avoid
2) Having a % go to a communal wallet, or to anywhere else for that matter causes the entire idea of a decentralized currency to become centralized, ruining the whole point of cryptocurrency
3) Having 1% go directly to you will also be seen as greedy. People want to mine for themselves, not for you. If you want 1% of what is mined, then run your own pool and charge 1%

Excuse me but how in the world do devs get paid?  I don't want some sneaky scheme to get paid.  I can't believe 1% is actually even a discussion.  It's crap.  Only it the coin takes off will it be worth anything and if that happens it means I ran a successful coin and then I would deserve it much like a CEO who runs a successful company so I really don't get the issue with 1%, it's chicken feed compared to most coins out there who pay out way more to their devs and founders.

Why do I have to run a scheme, why can't I say 1%, and be it 1% with no strings attached?  All founders, all devs get premined coins or some special payouts and I purposely chose 1% because it's lower than anything I've ever seen or heard of any dev get, yet I'm dumbfounded to see so many haters hate on a paltry 1% when many devs get so much more and nobody complains and here I am trying to build a coin which benefits the miners more than anyone else and I see nothing but hate.

No wonder nobody has ever bothered to do something for the community, for the miners, most of you want a better coin but you want to see the guy who thought of it and made it a reality to be living under a bridge.  How tragic!

Next:  the premine of 10% would be to give back to miners so why would I lie and say it's for bounties, etc.?  I don't want to BS about anything, I want to totally honest about everything and bounties will have to come from the community and in part from myself as well, just like they do with all other successful all coin.

But there has to be a viable way to do this right besides making me do all this for free, that's absurd.  And since I'm doing this coin for miners I want them to get that 10% to help them get to the next level, by buying better rigs - something that might otherwise take them years to do.  But if you miners want me to designate 5% or 10% for development and bounties and account for every coin so there's no funny business then that's fine but I think miners should get this 10% as a payout but I'll do it any way you guys want as long as it's what most of you want. 

Just like I badly anted SHA256 but switched to Scrypt cause that's what you guys wanted.

I'm willing to do it anyway possible - I have no ulterior motives so anything you guys can think of I will implement but don't expect me to do all this for less than 1% cause that's the lowest any dev had ever been paid.  I'll take it even one step further if needed, I would even put that 10% in an escrow account.  I would even put it in a wallet belonging to someone chosen by miners from this board.  I can't believe there is no way such a seemingly simple issue when there is so much benefit for the miners - that's just not possible.

And if necessary I'll even abandon the 10% idea (like I gave up on SHA256, CatholicCoin, OrphanCoin, etc.,) but I would really like to keep it (the 10%), if there's any possible and fair way, as it would really help a lot of the smaller miners get ahead while also including the large miners as well.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 01:07:57 AM
And why is 1% funny?  You think devs work for free?  Most take much more than 1% via many clever schemes.

At least I'm being forward.

Here's the problem thought regarding the 10% set aside for the miners.

I talked to the programmer and he's saying it can't be set aside in a special wallet, at least not in an easy affordable way.
That last part is easy, just make every new block generated generate new coins to some fixed address. Not that I think that's a good idea at all.

A decentralized cryptocurrency is a protocol, not so much a product. Can you imagine if the inventor of the file transfer protocol specified in the standards that when he connects to a server, it should allocate more bandwidth to him? I could see someone doing that with a specific ftp server they release, but shoehorning centralization into a protocol means you've lost the most revolutionary thing about bitcoin there.

How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.
I can't imagine any way to do that which wouldn't be trivial to subvert.

There is no way around, over, under, to subvert or to abuse the VGB Protocol and it benefits everyone but especially the smaller miners which is the majority.

That's why I want to launch this coin.  I can't believe I'm having such a hard time doing something good for this alt community. 

So many people get hung up on such small things which can be worked out like 1% layout for me which is less than any dev I've ever seen or the 10% which can be worked out something or even banned if that's what people want.

This coin could be such a nice coin for all miners but especially the small miners and yet I see nothing but combative individuals splitting hairs.  So odd.  So sad.  Such a loss to themselves. 

But thanks for your input - you sound like a programmer or at least self educated. If I knew how to program I'd launch this thing myself and I have no doubt people would love the idea once they saw the benefits themselves. 

No more dead flatlined coins, no more boring mining, no more hopeless mining just cause you have a smaller rig. 

This is so unreal and so frustrating I'm ready to just quit this idea which is tragic cause I truly wanted to do it for small miners such as myself and big miners would also benefit as well.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 01:10:54 AM
I'm interested in more information about your VBG or whatever, but a few things first

1) Having a premine without set bounties accouting for 100% of the premine is going to garner negative attention, which is going to make you seem greedy and your coin look like a pump and dump, which you obviously want to avoid
2) Having a % go to a communal wallet, or to anywhere else for that matter causes the entire idea of a decentralized currency to become centralized, ruining the whole point of cryptocurrency
3) Having 1% go directly to you will also be seen as greedy. People want to mine for themselves, not for you. If you want 1% of what is mined, then run your own pool and charge 1%

Excuse me but how in the world do devs get paid?  I don't want some sneaky scheme to get paid.  I can't believe 1% is actually even a discussion.  It's crap.  Only it the coin takes off will it be worth anything and if that happens it means I ran a successful coin and then I would deserve it much like a CEO who runs a successful company so I really don't get the issue with 1%, it's chicken feed compared to most coins out there who pay out way more to their devs and founders.

Why do I have to run a scheme, why can't I say 1%, and be it 1% with no strings attached?  All founders, all devs get premined coins or some special payouts and I purposely chose 1% because it's lower than anything I've ever seen or heard of any dev get, yet I'm dumbfounded to see so many haters hate on a paltry 1% when many devs get so much more and nobody complains and here I am trying to build a coin which benefits the miners more than anyone else and I see nothing but hate.
...
You're on a forum for a cryptocurrency which was revolutionary in that it was decentralized. If you don't understand the value of decentralization that's placed here, I think you fundamentally misunderstand why bitcoin is significant. It's not just the online part. Also, if it's a centralized currency that requires trust in you, why even do mining at all? You could just operate nodes which sign all transactions. Mining is only required for decentralized trust-free timestamping. Mining is only a worthless system of charity in a centralized system.

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad
There is no way around, over, under, to subvert or to abuse the VGB Protocol and it benefits everyone but especially the smaller miners which is the majority.
You'll need to explain that protocol then. Bitcoin didn't get where it is from being closed.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vlad2Vlad on July 13, 2013, 01:27:33 AM
The VGB protocol isn't closed and it can be copied by anyone once it gets out.

It's simply something that cannot be abused or subverted or overcome while rewarding everyone who mines while rewarding the smaller miners more.  

So many miners here and nobody is even interested in this at least for themselves.  I hardly mine Desiree the difficulty is too high for my crappy rig yet I still care enough to have come up with a protocol that I think will work and improve the mining enjoyment and reward for everyone.  

What does a guy have to do to get a programmer on board.  For crying out-loud, I'm paying for it and most programmers can do this in an hour or two.  This is really quite shocking.

Well, no point nesting a dead horse.  

If there's a programmer who wants something better for yourself and your fellow man then let me know.  

Take care, everyone.   God bless!


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 01:41:09 AM
The VGB protocol isn't closed and it can be copied by anyone once it gets out.

It's simply something that cannot be abused or subverted or overcome while rewarding everyone who mines while rewarding the smaller miners more.
What possibly stops a single powerful miner from pretending to be many small miners? Short of requiring all miners to submit proof of identification (such as a government-issued ID) that's an impossibility. And frankly, if you're not a programmer, I have much less trust in your judgment of the security of the protocol, but I welcome you to surprise me.

So many miners here and nobody is even interested in this at least for themselves.  I hardly mine Desiree the difficulty is too high for my crappy rig yet I still care enough to have come up with a protocol that I think will work and improve the mining enjoyment and reward for everyone.
Bitcoin doesn't exist to benefit miners. It exists to provide a decentralized value transfer system, and the miners are a requirement for the system to function at all because it's decentralized. To try to create a cryptocurrency that exists purposefully to profit miners and isn't fully decentralized misses the point on multiple levels.

What does a guy have to do to get a programmer on board.  For crying out-loud, I'm paying for it and most programmers can do this in an hour or two.  This is really quite shocking.
This system does not seem feasible in several ways, and it doesn't appear likely to be successful. There are already many successful centralized payment systems which are less plagued by issues.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 01:56:53 AM
You can't ask people for their opinions and then completely ignore or argue the points that you personally don't like. If you don't want to know what we think, then just launch your coin with you getting a cut of what everyone mines and watch it die. If your idea is so amazing that it makes us all feel the need to give you 1% of our mining, then it will succeed. Simple as that


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 01:58:09 AM
The VGB protocol isn't closed and it can be copied by anyone once it gets out.

It's simply something that cannot be abused or subverted or overcome while rewarding everyone who mines while rewarding the smaller miners more.
What possibly stops a single powerful miner from pretending to be many small miners? Short of requiring all miners to submit proof of identification (such as a government-issued ID) that's an impossibility. And frankly, if you're not a programmer, I have much less trust in your judgment of the security of the protocol, but I welcome you to surprise me.

So many miners here and nobody is even interested in this at least for themselves.  I hardly mine Desiree the difficulty is too high for my crappy rig yet I still care enough to have come up with a protocol that I think will work and improve the mining enjoyment and reward for everyone.
Bitcoin doesn't exist to benefit miners. It exists to provide a decentralized value transfer system, and the miners are a requirement for the system to function at all because it's decentralized. To try to create a cryptocurrency that exists purposefully to profit miners and isn't fully decentralized misses the point on multiple levels.

What does a guy have to do to get a programmer on board.  For crying out-loud, I'm paying for it and most programmers can do this in an hour or two.  This is really quite shocking.
This system does not seem feasible in several ways, and it doesn't appear likely to be successful. There are already many successful centralized payment systems which are less plagued by issues.

Hello nail head...meet hammer. Can't really be much clearer than is explained right there


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: achillez on July 13, 2013, 03:44:56 AM
may be interesting - I say try it and let's see


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: hl5460 on July 13, 2013, 03:51:38 AM
"I get 1% of mined coins", Every miner is contributing 1% to you.
That's what you want. Try to learn something from Sunny or Satoshi, give before you take.
Thanks for the offer, But I will pass.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: markm on July 13, 2013, 04:26:24 AM
How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.  The distribution of the 10% if I have to premine it is the hard part, cause I don't want to premine but the programmer said that's the only feasible affordable way and that my plans are too ambitions.

Come on MarkM, help me not launch another crapCoin.  Help me with just the idea of how to distribute this 10% to the miners in a fair way without premining cause right now it will have to be premined and that's gonna look like a pump and dump and I hate the very idea.  Thanks for your help.

How are you going to afford to check people's passports or social insurance numbers or whatever so as to be sure they are actually distinct different people?

It is very expensive to be reasonably sure no two purported "miners" are actually the same "scammer" in disguise.

I do have a way to reward small players, but it depends on them actually being players, because the way it makes a botnet controlling person's millions of "non player characters" less effective per fake person aka "non player character" than characters played by "real players" is by having the "game" (the actual process of standing up, drinking when thirsty, bathing when dirty, eating when hungry, getting to a mine that has valuable resources available to be mined without being robbed or killed, etc etc etc) be difficult for scripts to fully handle.

A botnet owner could deploy a million characters (at the same cost per player-account or per character as anyone else pays to cover the costs of the game servers) but one superhero of higher level with better armour and magic sword, or one high level thief,who observes the botnet characters' actions carefully with insightful thinking about exactly what the scripts running them are really triggering on, can screw up thousands of them at a time. Or one artisan demolishing a fountain the botnet characters all fill their waterskins at could make them all die of thirst until the botnet owner improves their scripts to make botnet characters who find a fountain gone or gone-dry call in an artisan to construct a new one, maybe meanwhile also having a whole list of fallback fountains and pools and rivers and so on to fall back to.

Basically until scripters have developed amazingly fully-adaptive character-running scripts a player who can put a few minutes now and then into putting each character back into a situation its scripts expect should be able to do much better per character deployed than the botnet player who will tend to regularly need to manually get thousands of characters back on script...

And of course once amazingly adaptive scripts have been developed wow, what amazing populations of non player characters games will be populated by!

See http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cpu_mining

-MarkM-


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vivisector999 on July 13, 2013, 04:42:38 AM
I hope you realize, I am being critical on you because since I named the coin, I feel like I have a tie or lifeblood with it.  Not like it's mine or anything, but kind of like when you go on a summer vacation and meet your cousins that live 1000 miles away, that you knew existed, but you actually never met before.

Thus no matter how silly it is, I will more then likely mine it.  How much I will mine it is questionable, but I will def be mining it, so I am hoping to steer it away from having really wonky ideas.

The name came from brainstorming and a number of people had a hand in it.  Nuggets stuck and yes, if this coin takes off you get the honor for naming it.  I could have named it myself but I felt like a miner's coin should be named by miners - since the beginning I've been trying to do what's right and it seems like some people just hash away on me regardless of how hard I try to do what's fair and right by everyone.


Lol, I don't want any credit for it.  I just think it's cool I had some small tiny factor in it, and that alone makes me want to mine it.  And also to hope it doesn't die a fiery death.  But you really seem intent on watching it burn.  LOL.  Please name all these coins that developers are getting a cut on, and I wil show you a handful of coins that failed because they were created not by people who understand cryptocurrency, or how it can exist.  Instead you will see developers that came here because they heard cryptocurrency is the next bubble, and they want a get rich quick scheme. If you look at the cryptocurrencies that have actually made something of themselves, you will see a pile of coins where the developer is not taking any cut in "owning" the coin.  If you want to make money off people there are 2 ways that are totally acceptable by the community.  Set up a Coin Developer Donation Fund, and create a pool.  Pools charging 2% are accepted even though a lot of the pools run only under donations as well.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 04:51:33 AM
I hope you realize, I am being critical on you because since I named the coin, I feel like I have a tie or lifeblood with it.  Not like it's mine or anything, but kind of like when you go on a summer vacation and meet your cousins that live 1000 miles away, that you knew existed, but you actually never met before.

Thus no matter how silly it is, I will more then likely mine it.  How much I will mine it is questionable, but I will def be mining it, so I am hoping to steer it away from having really wonky ideas.

The name came from brainstorming and a number of people had a hand in it.  Nuggets stuck and yes, if this coin takes off you get the honor for naming it.  I could have named it myself but I felt like a miner's coin should be named by miners - since the beginning I've been trying to do what's right and it seems like some people just hash away on me regardless of how hard I try to do what's fair and right by everyone.


Lol, I don't want any credit for it.  I just think it's cool I had some small tiny factor in it, and that alone makes me want to mine it.  And also to hope it doesn't die a fiery death.

Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: markm on July 13, 2013, 04:58:09 AM
Well Allahcoin takes 10% for "the muslim brotherhood", so maybe they will show us how well catholicoin would have gone over...

-MarkM-


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 05:02:04 AM
Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 05:12:21 AM
Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.

Exactly. I'm on your side here.

To be fair though, he does say he works in economics and I would rather an economist come up with a new idea than a programmer when it comes to distribution, but I agree with you, so far everything is looking not so great


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 05:25:54 AM
Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.

Exactly. I'm on your side here.

To be fair though, he does say he works in economics and I would rather an economist come up with a new idea than a programmer when it comes to distribution, but I agree with you, so far everything is looking not so great
I do think Bitcoin/derivatives could use a bit more economic attention toward figuring out what the optimal block reward values and progression are, whether a maximum cap is a good idea, etc. But the idea of being able to securely identify small miners (as opposed to powerful miners trying to look like many) is much further on the programming / network security side. (And I don't think his few stated ideas on the economic side are that great. Making a currency that's focused all on benefiting the money printers is a huge mis-step! Holy shit, how does this not ring more alarm bells to people?)

*edited to bold for emphasis


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: m3kt3k on July 13, 2013, 05:29:01 AM
OK Im interested in this coin. Lets see how it does and Ill throw some hash at your Nug.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 05:31:25 AM
OK Im interested in this coin. Lets see how it does and Ill throw some hash at your Nug.
Honest question, assuming you aren't a sockpuppet of OP or something: What sounds interesting about this at all? Half of what he described is magic and the other half of what he described is "I get 11% of all coins".


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 05:33:32 AM
Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.

Exactly. I'm on your side here.

To be fair though, he does say he works in economics and I would rather an economist come up with a new idea than a programmer when it comes to distribution, but I agree with you, so far everything is looking not so great
I do think Bitcoin/derivatives could use a bit more economic attention toward figuring out what the optimal block reward values and progression are, whether a maximum cap is a good idea, etc. But the idea of being able to securely identify small miners (as opposed to powerful miners trying to look like many) is much further on the programming / network security side. (And I don't think his few stated ideas on the economic side are that great. Making a currency that's focused all on benefiting the money printers is a huge mis-step! Holy shit, how does this not ring more alarm bells to people?)

I'm not sure why people aren't concerned. At the same time, I'm not quite convinced that Vlad is going in the right direction at all. We will see what his big hyped idea is, but it seems as if he is completely missing the point of what a cryptocurrency does and why things are set up the way they are. It just sounds like a money grab at this point which is unfortunate because I believe he is sincere in wanting to help the smaller miners but this is just so far off that its basically pointless


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 06:22:16 AM
OK Im interested in this coin. Lets see how it does and Ill throw some hash at your Nug.
Honest question, assuming you aren't a sockpuppet of OP or something: What sounds interesting about this at all? Half of what he described is magic and the other half of what he described is "I get 11% of all coins".

I think OP is sincere, here. I also think that he just doesn't understand how things work he in crypto-coin land, where every dev is expected to be amazingly selfless and code just for the reward of releasing something useful to the community. I mean, Satoshi didn't have to pre-mine, there wasn't a mob of extremely efficient hash power all ready to rape any new coins and force the little guy out. That's how Satoshi got a lot of Bitcoins, and that's how he made money. A developer today can't expect to get very much of his own currency anymore, so even if it goes to the moon, the dev makes almost nothing.

I think he means well, in the same sense the kid I knew in gradeschool meant well who had this big idea for an MMORPG that totally wasn't just a World of Warcraft clone and was better in every possible way but needed help programming it and was adamant he got a cut and that I didn't steal his idea so he couldn't explain it to me. That's the idea here too. It's a mixture of secrecy and looking for a cut on an idea that is so less than feasible.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Vivisector999 on July 13, 2013, 06:22:49 AM
Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out. 

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 06:54:25 AM
Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: GSnak on July 13, 2013, 07:07:59 AM
Help me with just the idea of how to distribute this 10% to the miners in a fair way

Redistributive coins have never worked in RL or in crypto. I'd like to say "nice idea, thanks for trying", but it's not.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 07:21:28 AM
Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

Not to be rude, but that's not my problem. I shouldn't have to pay 11% to them regardless of their reasons. My point is that people like me who DO have tens of thousands in equipment are going to avoid this like the plague. May as well make it CPU mining only because anyone with any real hashpower isn't going to give 11% away for free


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 07:22:21 AM
Might as well just call it CommunismCoin at that point


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: markm on July 13, 2013, 07:27:08 AM
Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

The big GPU farms all fight each other for less coins per person than the few people CPU mining a coin politely together, none of them trying to rape the thing with a GPU, each get of some coin (like Tenebrix, or Fairbrix, or...) they hope the people with the big GPU farms won't remember or care about for a year or so like happened with BBQcoin...

The people who let one CPU core quietly mine BBQcoin for a year after some big GPU farm bully claimed to have killed it probably made more money that year per CPU core than they would have per GPU, if they had any GPUs, on some coin like Litecoin that all the big GPU people fight for crumbs of.

-MarkM-


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 07:28:03 AM
Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

They aren't owed more. I just hate the way the rich always get richer, and the poor get poorer.

I don't think the currency is a feasible place to address that.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 07:42:41 AM
Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Now that I think about it, I have an answer. The compensation shouldn't be directly proportional to the work contributed because the work isn't the only thing that matters. Would you feel safe using Bitcoin if there was only one miner? No? Even if he had a gazillion TH/s?

Then it would be centralized with one person controlling all new coins. Your point was a bad one just let it go. Seriously how hard is this to understand...?


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 07:43:14 AM
Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Now that I think about it, I have an answer. The compensation shouldn't be directly proportional to the work contributed because the work isn't the only thing that matters. Would you feel safe using Bitcoin if there was only one miner? No? Even if he had a gazillion TH/s?

Spreading the block rewards wouldn't address the issue that a single miner is in control of the network and can more than easily do a 51%-style attack.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 07:47:17 AM
Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Now that I think about it, I have an answer. The compensation shouldn't be directly proportional to the work contributed because the work isn't the only thing that matters. Would you feel safe using Bitcoin if there was only one miner? No? Even if he had a gazillion TH/s?

Spreading the block rewards wouldn't address the issue that a single miner is in control of the network and can more than easily do a 51%-style attack.
I think our words are falling on deaf ears my friend. Either that or there is a SEVERE lack of understanding the point of these coins or how they work...


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 07:48:43 AM
are you guys just messing with us or do you seriously not understand these issues...? we would be happy to explain the problems but it seems like you guys just don't care to hear the truth


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: HuuHachu on July 13, 2013, 07:50:53 AM

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Well, a coin *could* be designed were the contribution of each individual could be equal to the blockchain (or whatever other mechanism) security.
In that case, having tons of hardware would not be helpful and thus you would not have "big" and "small" miners. Of course it could not be a hashcash derivative ...
How to design such a coin is hard, it could even be impossible (bizantine generals problem was bypassed by bitcoin in an elegant yet power hungry way using hashcash).

On the other hand, the OP speaks of mining, previously tried to make some money by buying / selling back some crappy domain names, ran some polls with equally crappy ideas ... so he probably is in no way bringing real new and innovative ideas to the cause.
Also putting a 1% tax for himself on the money supply ... lol, much worst than a premine ! (but at least not hard for some motivated group to hard-fork and get rid of it)


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: iGotSpots on July 13, 2013, 07:57:00 AM

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Well, a coin *could* be designed were the contribution of each individual could be equal to the blockchain (or whatever other mechanism) security.
In that case, having tons of hardware would not be helpful and thus you would not have "big" and "small" miners. Of course it could not be a hashcash derivative ...
How to design such a coin is hard, it could even be impossible (bizantine generals problem was bypassed by bitcoin in an elegant yet power hungry way using hashcash).

On the other hand, the OP speaks of mining, previously tried to make some money by buying / selling back some crappy domain names, ran some polls with equally crappy ideas ... so he probably is in no way bringing real new and innovative ideas to the cause.
Also putting a 1% tax for himself on the money supply ... lol, much worst than a premine ! (but at least not hard for some motivated group to hard-fork and get rid of it)

Finally someone who gets it. The hard fork idea is a good one. I like this guy but I think a few of us should get together and eliminate his tax should this go live. Not to screw the guy but to prove a point not to fuck with the people who are trying to support you. I would be willing to throw all my hashes at it just to get the point across


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: NWO on July 13, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Begging?

When you pay someone to do something it's not begging.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak and then pay for it would you like it if some guy outside told people you were in there begging for food?  Hardly!

These are not junk developers.  They have experience launching other coins and they're actually the most expensive here.  I could have gone with the cheaper guys but I thought I'd get more from going with someone with integrity and experience.

The longevity depends on the adoption rate and if people like what the coin offers.  I'm looking at it long term, for years to come of the govt allows it that long.

Please don't tell me it was Hazard... As I'm sure it was you who messaged him a few days back.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: NickCoin on July 13, 2013, 09:28:43 AM
lol, calling yourself an Economist just puts shame to the name, please don't use it and ruin the word until you have proven your predictions.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Luckybit on July 13, 2013, 10:23:32 AM
I promised you guys at least a 3 day heads up warning for any coin I launch and here it is.

The coin will be Nuggets (The first true Miners' Coin) and I am designing it from the ground up, with lots of feedback from many miners and before all else, with the average, struggling miner in mind.

Every coin out there focuses on everything and everyone else but none out the miner first - the lifeblood of any successful coin - yet the masses - the large majority of miners get no real specific edge or benefit for their efforts and contributions.

I wanna change all that!

Nuggets will have no premine, no instamine (the first true fair launch per the people's specs and demands, and not my own desires and so fair that Miners even chose the name no sneak launch, as promised a minimum 3 days heads up for hackers to kill the coin if this is another CrapCoin) and I will add a new feature [I learned in Economics and Finance back in College years ago) never before seen or heard of, called the VGB protocol, which I will detail right before launch so prevent theft before my own launch.

On a % basis the VGB Protocol will favor and more generously reward the smaller miner - the smaller the miner the nicer and more rewarding the benefit.  It will also help the solo miner but also the pool miner.

The higher the difficulty goes - this new, never thought of feature (the VGB protocol) will ensure and guarantee that mining a high difficulty coin will not result in a boring flatline effect, which many coins are now plagued by and as the masses come in, mining will become more boring and less and less rewarding - so this VGB protocol will greatly help with this fundamental flaw in all coins out there right now. 

I guess it took an Economist to see what very smart computer guys, programmers and hackers missed all this time.  lol.

This new VGB feature will make mining more interesting, unpredictable (in a good way) and more fun and exciting for everyone - but especially for the average and smaller miners.

It will be fully inclusive - meaning big miners will be happy to mine it while small miners will be even happier to mine it.   It's a win-win coin for everyone involved.

The distribution of the coin which not all may love this particular idea will be like this, and this is where you have to give me a bit of trust, because this is also meant and designed with the smaller miner in mind although once again, this is a democratic coin and i promise nobody will be excluded. 

In discussing ways to level the playing field, "Zas" suggested rewarding all miners with 10% of the mined coins straight across but that would be impossible to code and it's ripe for abuse but I love the idea so much that I can't let it go.

So here's my plan:  I get 1% of mined coins (no premine and no instamine), miners get 89% of all mined coins and then 10% of all mined coins will be put in either an escrow account or a specific wallet which can be verified by everyone and anyone to show I'm not spending it.  I promise full disclosures and full oversight in any way you guys choose to implant such a watchdog.

Once we can all come to some fair understanding I will then distribute ALL of those coins, every penny back to the miners.  So then the miners get 99% of these coins but the idea is that this 10% distribution will be a flat reward which means that even the big miners get a reward but the same exact (flat) reward will be given to the small and smallest miners so on a % basis, relatively speaking, the small miners will feel a much greater benefit.

The idea is to help newbies and small guys who can't afford to keep buying hardware - this 10% reward, combined with my VGB Protocol, should really help the fast majority of miners, especially the smaller struggling miners, before the masses of people come online probably next year and you all lose the control you none possess to make a coin especially for yourselves. 

This is a win-win for everyone and I will do anything it takes to show people this is not a pump and dump.  I will do all I can to put the power and the reward system in the hands of the miners. 

This is the first coin which gives a damn about this alt community and so this coin is made specifically with the miners in mind, before all else and if it succeeds many small miners should see immediate and wonderfully uplifting benefits which will help many of you reach the next level of income and revenues. 

Good luck guys!

Let me guess. VGB is some sort of variability to the payout?


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: Luckybit on July 13, 2013, 10:25:16 AM
Cryptocurrencies aren't supposed to be a get-rich-quick scheme for miners. Miners exist to secure the blockchain for the currency. Getting that backwards does not sound like a good idea.

Quote
So here's my plan:  I get 1% of mined coins (no premine and no instamine),
lol
Quote
miners get 89% of all mined coins
That's even less than currencies that don't revolve around miners btw.
Quote
and then 10% of all mined coins will be put in either an escrow account or a specific wallet which can be verified by everyone and anyone to show I'm not spending it.  I promise full disclosures and full oversight in any way you guys choose to implant such a watchdog.
I do not follow. This also doesn't sound like much of a decentralized trust-not-required currency (as in, a big reason many of us like bitcoin).

Actually it's both. Miners don't exist if they can't pay their bills so it is about making money WHILE securing the blockchain. It has to be both. The more money miners make the more secure the blockchain can become.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: AgentME on July 13, 2013, 10:33:04 AM
Cryptocurrencies aren't supposed to be a get-rich-quick scheme for miners. Miners exist to secure the blockchain for the currency. Getting that backwards does not sound like a good idea.

Quote
So here's my plan:  I get 1% of mined coins (no premine and no instamine),
lol
Quote
miners get 89% of all mined coins
That's even less than currencies that don't revolve around miners btw.
Quote
and then 10% of all mined coins will be put in either an escrow account or a specific wallet which can be verified by everyone and anyone to show I'm not spending it.  I promise full disclosures and full oversight in any way you guys choose to implant such a watchdog.
I do not follow. This also doesn't sound like much of a decentralized trust-not-required currency (as in, a big reason many of us like bitcoin).

Actually it's both. Miners don't exist if they can't pay their bills so it is about making money WHILE securing the blockchain. It has to be both. The more money miners make the more secure the blockchain can become.
Bitcoin's adjusting difficulty rate minimizes their profits. If bitcoin was about maximizing miner profitability, then the block rate and difficulty rate wouldn't be constantly making it harder.


Title: Re: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!
Post by: hotcoldcoin on July 13, 2013, 10:47:29 AM
11% of every block goes to Vlad2Vlad.... sure!!!  what could possibly go wrong!!!

http://www.rovingjay.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/crash-and-burn-money.jpg