Bitcoin Forum

I have heard arguments that bitcoin can function as a store of value only (eg, if it does not work out as a currency), but I am not seeing it. I am going to present a few arguments for both sides below. Please give your arguments and rationale, but also just for bitcoin vs. gold in general.

This is a self-moderated topic to prevent low quality posts.

Bitcoin
- limited supply (capped at 21,000,000). While gold also has a limited supply, the amount of extant gold is not known and the amount that will be mined per year is not known, so bitcoin has more transparency
- minimal storage cost compared to gold

Gold
- has been coveted for thousands of years.
- limited supply
- has some use (fashion, industrial)

Some people say that bitcoin is more divisible and transferrable than gold and hence advantageous, but this will easily be solved with blockchain technology - tokens can represent ownership of gold in a vault, and thus becomes secure, divisible, transferrable.

Price appreciation is not a reason for bitcoin to be a store of value, because as a store of value people are looking to preserve what they have, not make profits. And it is a backwards argument anyway, because if people are buying it because it is a store of value, then that is going to drive up the price and cannot be a reason to buy it in advance.

Given all the above, right now I do not see why anyone would want bitcoin as a store of value when gold is available and has a longer history. The only advantage bitcoin has is storage cost, which I imagine does not add significantly to the cost of gold, especially when one considers some of the other utility of gold.

Store of value:

If BTC is accepted by the world as store of value then price will settle into a much tighter non-volatile range. This would be around $200K or so USD.

That has to happen 1st.

By that time who knows if they figured out how to use BTC core for transactions. Let's hypothetically say they don't but with lightning, 1,000 alt coins, etc, the block time for transactions are 10 minutes to the T.

I think BTC core would work better than gold as a store of value on the simple principle its divisible and can travel over the internet in 10 minutes vs. gold.

I think BTC can replaced your savings account. You withdraw from savings account 0-6 times a month.

Think of BTC as a bank/ATM in modern day. Your at lunch with friends. You go to pay "short, I don't have any cash (BTC in the future) it takes 10-30 minutes to go find an ATM. This will be the same time to transfer BTC to your friend or whoever lent you the cash for lunch.

Also, when you withdraw $20 from your ATM, your account doesn't actually have paper $20 bill in it. It has 1's and 0's. And the ATM spits out fiat and reduces your balance.


So going back to BTC as savings account to store value, when you withdraw your $20 in BTC, maybe it spits out ether, xyz coin as that xyz coin will be the cash part. (and all done via phone but just painting picture)

I can see BTC as store of value/savings account, and you convert it a few times a month to xyz coin.

BTC can be savings account, xyz coin can be checking.

But this can be easily done with gold, and people are working on it now:
https://digix.global/dgd/

So in the near future there will be the ability to send gold over the internet in 10 minutes and it is divisible.

yes, I agree with you that bitcoin is just a store of value, I think gold is the same. the difference is that gold is real and become a valuable item in the eyes of society.
the value of gold with bitcoin certainly larger bitcoin, but from the side of luxury may be more dominating gold. I can buy hundreds of grams of gold with just 1 bitcoin, but gold can buy 1 bitcoin with hundreds of grams.
both have a period where it will be exhausted. and nothing else, so the day I prefer bitcoin to invest

I could see that as small niche.

The problem with that is you don't have control of the gold, it has to be insured, it has to have storage cost. So theoretically, say gold stayed $1,000 and never moved, eventually that contract aka your gold would be worth $0 due to years of fees. Costs lots of money to store physical gold and insure it.  

But that could be a great stable payment system/coin. Low volatility and not meant for store of value but 1 year or less type thing. aka checking account.

Yes, THIS, is the real truth. They all have the same function, only that if you are investing in bitcoin you have a little risk, you can just lose all your funds in a night (no one wants to see it happening of course)


No one is talking about luxury in here, the OP is just comparing the good sides of bitcoin and gold, in fact, they have the same function.


anyway, i have always dreamed about having dozens of gold bars on my room.. i hope that it can be done in a few years, but i am just joking.

As I have written many times, both bitcoin and gold are a store of value and scarce. Gold has the advantage of having a much longer history and lately has been less volatile. While revolutionary, bitcoin has plenty of maturing to do as an investment.

Bitcoin is NOT gold. You can all talk about how both have a limited supplz but here's news. Gold is actually limited phisically, bitcoin on the other hand is a bunch of code that could potentially be simply started again with the same code from scratch. Bitcoin is trully limited just because of faith people put in it and is not actually limited in my view, whereas gold is.

from Roger Ver:
https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/939916815563739137

Saying that bitcoin will not be useful as a store of value since will be supplanted by other crypto that has more use.

This is a fallacious argument. All the computers running the same code IS the bitcoin network. If someone else started from scratch with that code, they would be joining the bitcoin network. If a change is made to the code, then it is no longer the same as bitcoin. You cannot say that ether or litecoin or bitcoin cash are bitcoin, it would be like saying that Apple and Microsoft and Google are the same.

Similarly, persons say that when new cryptocurrencies are invented, it dilutes the market and the value should go down. But do new IPOs dilute the stock market and cause the overall value to go down?

This is the same as bitcoin. If the value stayed the same and never moved, the value gets reduced by transaction fees, and so eventually it would be worth $0 (using the same logic).

I would always prefer gold over bitcoin for a very simple reason. The question asked here is which is better for investing? Gold is an asset which can never go to zero. Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency which is not backed by any asset. The value of bitcoin can easily fluctuate south. Gold is a safe haven when it comes to uncertainties. It is still at the lows and has the potential to move up. Silver for that matter is an excellent investment.

Bitcoin is a hype. I understand the importance of Blockchain technology and I would invest in the technology, not in the products. Bitcoin is a gamble and no doubt it is surging its way up and may go higher but at the end of the day, there is no logic behind this rally.

USA has not regulated bitcoin as a mode of payment. Until Uncle Sam waves “Yes” to the cryptos, it is just like peeing in the wind.

I previously did not believe that there was a reason for anyone to choose bitcoin over gold as a store of value, because after all, gold has been coveted for thousands of years and has industrial and cosmetic uses, whereas bitcoin does not have any of these. How can something that does not have intrinsic use have more value than gold, with its intrinsic use? But I now believe that bitcoin is superior to gold for the following reasons:

• there is a fixed upper limit of bitcoin (unlike gold). As more gold is mined, the value of everyone's current holdings decline, because it is not as scarce
• bitcoin is more divisible (each bitcoin can be divided 100,000,000 times), which is good to distribute for ownership
• bitcoin cannot be confiscated. In 1933 in the United States private gold possession was outlawed, and people were ordered to turn it into the government for exchange. This policy existed for more than 40 years! In addition, gold was stolen from defeated people during World War II, and probably in many wars
• bitcoin is much easier to transfer (can be sent to anyone around the world)

I love this topic.

I often make comparisons of Bitcoin to Gold whenever I'm introducing someone new to Bitcoin. Usually, the first question that I receive is that gold is a physical asset while Bitcoin is not. I usually answer that by using an analogy (vs. trying to explain to them the reality and tangibility of the blockchain) by asking if they use cloud storage, such as iCloud or DropBox. If they answer yes, I then ask them if they use the service to host pictures that they take from their devices. If they answer yes, I tell them that the photos aren't physical. They're also digitally produced, but feel real because you can see them and store them on their devices and cloud storage.

When these people ask me how Bitcoin is like money, I kind of shape the conversation into saying that Bitcoin is like gold; that it's more like a store of value and investment versus a currency.

Personally, I prefer to store Bitcoin as a personal asset over gold. Why? Here's the reality of a hypothetical situation that could possibly happen within our lifetime:

If the economy crashes, and the currency of your country becomes worthless overnight, what will save you? Gold bars? Imagine trying to buy a loaf of bread with gold. How do you do it? If your economy is worthless, how do you convert your gold? Into what form of currency? Do you use the gold AS currency itself? How do you weigh it? How do you measure it? Do you carry the gold bar with you, along with a chisel and a scale? The risk of the physical bar being taken from you is high.

Now, with Bitcoin, you can send an allotted pre-designated amount from wallet to wallet. Risk of theft is low. Yes, someone can put a gun to your head, but if they murder you, they will never be able to access your bitcoin. You can make an instant (dependent upon transaction times lol) transaction for any goods or services.

The only downside with Bitcoin is the volatility of it, unlike with gold. How will it fare? No one can say, for certain, but I feel that Bitcoin is the "gold" standard of cryptocurrency. Yes, it sucks as a currency exchange, but I truly believe that BTC will become the store of value leader for crypto.

There has been a lot of speculation about the amount of gold . A lot of information out there states that there is much more gold bought and sold ( in market) that there have been ever mined. This is not entirely speculation in my mind because actually a lot of banks havent shown any proof of their allegedly gold reserves for decades. If this is true no token nor no financial instrument can actually represent the actual gold amount.

That being said if there was an exact number ,weight of gold that is represented by some token or other finacial instrument who would we trust to scale it? I think noone could be trusted in such situation but on other hand we all know the BTC amount and it can be changed.  Thus the advantage over gold and your proposed solution.

I wouldn't compare Bitcoin with Gold, but people insist on doing that (even calling Bitcoin the "Digital Gold" which in my personal opinion is not. However Bitcoin still has a lot of inherent value for diversification purposes.

Bitcoin and Gold have been compared but they are entirely different things, the only thing they have in common is that they are not the bankers FIAT money. My view is that the safest non-mainstream portfolio is 50% in gold and 50% in Bitcoin/cryptos.

This is a really good point. One cannot easily verify the gold holdings of banks. But the bitcoin ledger is perfect and knowable by all at any time.

Well if you hide GOLD really well, then it can NEVER be stolen, hide it where gov never think to look with their TECH

But BTC, if you use an exchange or wallet, I can steal your btc,

If I know your address, or public, I can steal your bTc

GOLD is big and heavy, so you can't move it around, that is the negative, GOLD has a 100K year old human love affair, BTC is code that his a 10 year hack, that could collapse tomorrow

Short term BTC ok, long term GOLD good, problem is you need to MOVE during civil war, how to bring your gold? Can't hide it anymore modern tech can find your gold,

...

Biggest problem with BITCOIN I can see in this forum is that 99% of the people are idiots, and have no idea how weak BITCOIN is, as a software system, and as a collection of old/weak crypto algos.

GOLD is well established you don't HOLD it you don't own it, ... BTC is same, you don't hold the private-key, you don't own it,

Problem with BTC is also that if somebody else can 'guess' your private key, then now it has a new owner, and there is not SHIT U can do about it, ...

With GOLD, U can hide it on MTN ( or out in desert with GPS), where no authority could/would ever guess you could/would hide it, with BTC, all it takes a serious party to target your account and its GONE

Bitcoin is more accessible to the people and it's price has increased significantly last year, surpassing gold. Even tho gold has much more uses, when it comes to payment, bitcoin will still win over gold since it's just the internet, which in this day and age, is widely available.

I don’t think like it as the price of gold is somewhat permanent in nature but in case of bitcoin there is a huge fluctuations and pumps and dumps in prices of bitcoin as well as the profitability of bitcoin is so much higher than gold although gold has its own value people are engaged in it as it is plus point of gold that it has a solid shape as well as they are getting profit but bitcoin is very much profitable.

I think,Bitcoin compared with gold, not long enough, not after the baptism of time, so not enough gold stability.

GOLD has been traded by mankind, +100K years,

BITCOIN has been scammed and front ran by scammers for about six years,

Gold is forever, BITCOIN maybe 12 years tops, unless there is a total re-write and upgrade of all crypto-algos used, and not using NSA ever again,

If U want to get rich in CRYPTO, then clone your own BTC, and pump&dump it, just like all the other parasites do in the BTC-ALT community.

Nobody get's rich in GOLD, its like buying insurance, only get a payout if the shit hits the fan, and most of the time the shit don't hit the fan, and if it does, you really don't want to be there,

These look like arguments in favor of bitcoin. How practical is it for people for hide gold where is cannot be found? If you hide it out west with GPS, then someone else might find it and take it. As far as I know, no one has guessed a bitcoin private key from scratch.

As you say, during a civil war how do you transport your gold?

What do you mean if you know one's address? Their physical address? That will not help because maybe they did not write down their bitcoin private key anywhere in their house.

So how long is necessary to compare bitcoin to gold?

This is a short-term issue. Eventually the volatility of bitcoin will decrease so that it is similar to other assets, like gold.

The price hasn't surpassed gold by a long shot, I think you mean that its performance has been better recently.

Your argument is invalid if you don't think gold was ever used in scamming people. I hate when people say that Bitcoin is a scam coin. No one is forcing people to buy it. Gold and fiat currency is used just as much, if not more than Bitcoin, to scam people... Ever hear of Bre-X? The $6 BILLION scandal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bre-X

I don't know where you're getting your "12 years tops" information from, but you're saying that we only have 5 years remaining of the Bitcoin "trend"?

I love the conversation around BTC vs gold because it's forcing a lot of folks to grapple with the age old question, "What is real?".   ;D

Nothing in this universe has any value at all (intrinsic or otherwise) unless we as a group of people give it value and agree to the price. This is the basis for markets.  Sure, gold is aphysical metal that has valuable properties (it doesn't rust, it's the best electrical conductor, it can be made into jewelry/coins, etc, it's attractive).  I think the folks that say crypto currencies have no intrinsic value are wrong; they just can't see it because it is a mental concept that you can't hold in your hands like gold.  I just went through this with my 6 year old daughter this weekend. She saw I have a couple BTC "coins" on my desk and said "Dad, I thought you said Bitcoin was invisible?" "It is." "But you have it RIGHT there." "These? No. They are just symbols referring to the idea of Bitcoin. They aren't worth anything."  She finally got it, but it highlighted to me how ingrained it is within us to conflate physical & abstract concepts because we crave a physical token of our property.

I do see intrinsic value in what crypto currencies offer and once you cut through the technology of crypto currency, what that intrinsic value is built on is a story as old as humanity: hope. CC offers hope of a world with less centralized governmental control (usually with their hands in our pockets along the way).  Hope is fundamentally what motivates us in this life. Without hope, why do we all get out of bed in the morning? Why do we do anything? Thousands of epic books & movies are built on the premise of hope.   Most of us feel overburdened by bureaucracy and governments to varying extents.  CC provides hope of a world where exchange of value doesn't need a centralized market maker that can be corrupted, bought, or act as a gatekeeper.  Finding ways to cryptographically certify transactions between fundamentally untrusted strangers is a serious game-changer for the coming decades.

Current CC is pretty rudimentary. There are lots of technical issues to work out in the coming years and additional layers to build on top which will add different types of value we can't even conceive right now. Lightning Network sounds like a good option, although I think more options will need to be developed to match current Visa/MC/Amex/ECB daily transaction rates.  Cross-chain atomic swaps are going to be a HUGE game changer for universal liquidity as essentially it will allow anyone to trade any CC with anyone.  Want to keep all your coins in XRP or BCH? Fine.  Want to buy something from someone who only deals with LTC or Monero? No problem.   I can see this over time leading to a general CC equilibrium since any CC can be exchanged for any other at a fair spot rate.

Hands down, I see CC as a much larger catalyst for future change than even the Internet was back in 1993 when it was opened up to the public.

How can you even steal if there is 2fa?
I am sure there is pretty good protection to have 2fa on every account that related to your bitcoin thing. And it much more safer if you have your own private key to hold your bitcoin

I think there is easy way to safe gold or even to have interest on gold so there is no way that it can't be retrieved. But if you compare to bitcoin of course it is much more easy to have bitcoin. But high risk, high gain so if you want to have stable investment you should take gold instead of bitcoin. Many people take this risk to get some profit so please do not judge them

Yeah gold has a stable investment scenario, but if you really have to compare it totally to bitcoin nowadays gold has been surpassed of its popularity. Holders of gold now shifted to bitcoin, and you know why? Its because of the remarkable price that bitcoin has in the last months of year 2017. Some analysts find it a bubble, but smart people who took risks really seen it profitable compared to investing gold which a physical asset that needs physical security.

Why does it have to be one or the other?

In my mind they compliment each other perfectly, Bitcoin is giving us unprecedented growth and potential income that is well suited for the long term future, but is high risk.

Gold, doesn't seem to do much for most of the time, but thats good, it brings safety and security to balance out the high risk of Bitcoin. But heres the thing... as Bitcoin rises is popularity, peoples trust in banks will fall, this will drive up the price of gold massively over the next few years.

So whenever I take any profits from my crypto, I take it in gold rather than FIAT.

Obviously bitcoin...because Gold is far away from bitcoin...The price of bitcoin is much high...so investing in bitcoin will be more profitable than gold.

That's a wise choice. Gold and bitcoin exist in different worlds. Bitcoin can indeed bring quick profits because the price can change quickly too. Gold prices tend to be stable, but have a constant real value. So the risk factor can be smaller. I also chose gold to invest from profit cryptocurrency.

I also thought about whether Bitcoin will replace gold in the future. Gold is now a jewel that it is considered to be a difficult item to remove from the river, but if Bitcoin develops, there will be a lot of people not using gold anymore that use Bitcoin.

Gold move economics now [powerful countries have gold] and bitcoin will move economics in future.
bitcoin start replace gold now and will complete replace it in future
Gold is the wealth of countries and bitcoin is the wealth of the people and the poor.
Countries that print more money will face many difficulties in the future because they will find that citizens need more and more.

Bitcoin is much more better then gold I try gold so many time but I lose in gold all the time gold is just a valuable piece of Mattel nothing more so I personally like bitcoin because whenever I invest in bitcoin it give me a profit on time and it never give me lose so I think everyone will agree with me when I join bitcoin so it return me all my lose which I lose in gold so bitcoin is now a part of my life and I will never leave bitcoin.

Gold is very good well as investment but for this time the digital currency is coming and the old was still there but this the next generation.. so we need to follow and get it first get the BTC first before we are so late we are young in age but old in mind is very bad,.

Gold is better in term of security and it's price is stable whereas BTC is much better for earning quicker profits when traded with or kept as an idle investment. Gold is accepted by many vendors compared to btc as well.

Why compare bitcoin and gold? Let's leave it as it is. Let there be also bitcoin and it will be valuable in the new world, so also let gold remain that is valuable in the new and old world)

As we know,the price for 1 bitcoin is 15020.51 dolars.Eventhought the price of bitcoin is worthy,the gold is still valueable untill now.We didn't sure about the prices of bitcoin because it still increase and decrease every second of days.So,better we kept the gold then bitcoin.Because gold is still gain the main value or increasing.

Why wouldn't you compare bitcoin with gold? People use bitcoin as a store of value and people use gold as a store of value. So someone in that situation needs to make a decision. If you don't feel they are appropriate uses, then what should someone use as their store of value?

It will drive up the price of gold, or drive up the price of bitcoin still further?

Because people have to make decisions what % to invest in gold and what % to invest in bitcoin.

False. Actually, I guess this could be true... I used to trade gold and forex, but I do not any longer. So my decision between gold and bitcoin percentage? 0% investments in gold and 100% into Bitcoin.

But seriously, it doesn't state anywhere that you have to only use gold or bitcoin as a store of value. I think you're putting too much unnecessary focus on only choosing between bitcoin or gold. Why so serious?  :o

Ha, so you agree with me. A decision for 0% gold means that you favor bitcoin. It is still a decision you had to make.

I only mention store of value because that is why most people compare bitcoin and gold. I think real estate is a candidate as well for store of value. And bitcoin (and other crypto) for appreciation.

Basically bitcoin and gold have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Rather than debating which one is better, I prefer to combine those two things, gold and bitcoin. Bitcoin or altcoin as a means to get profit, then the result to buy gold as a long-term investment, and more stable (safe) because it has real value.

I would very much choose the bitcoin to invest from gold, because gold would only look luxurious to be worn by women, gold investment for women and bitcoin investments for men and women. ;D :D :D

I will prefer bitcoin on gold because in gold I always lose it never give me profit because I try gold so many time but it don’t work from me then I decide to join bitcoin and since I join bitcoin so it return my money which I lose in gold because when you will buy gold and then keep it in hold so even when its price go high and you want to sell so there will be a deduction from your gold and in bitcoin will take a profit when its price go high.

Not for a moment you were wrong in your words. Gold and digital gold both have their own importance and definitely everything has its own pros and cons. Bitcoin is the best investment tool that I have known so far.

Nothing is better than bitcoin when it comes down to earning profits. The holder can make huge profits in a short span of time. However, we cannot use bitcoin in jewelry and also, where is all the gold?