Bitcoin Forum

Why the Only Real Way to Buy Bitcoins Is on the Streets
by Robert McMillan


 - http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/buttonwood

There is the weekly (Monday) Satoshi Square meetup in NYC (yesterday's was hosted at EVR).
 - https://twitter.com/joshrossi  <-- For info on location
 - https://twitter.com/search?q=%23satoshisquare&src=hash

Here's the Project Buttonwood trading site for NYC:
 - http://buttonwood.btcshares.com/

The next L.A. Satoshi Square meetup is this Thursday (July 25th, 2013) downtown (Grand Park):
 - http://spelunk.in/2013/06/29/satoshi-square-la-july-edition/

The Buttonwood San Francisco occurs weekly.  The next event is Thursday, July 25th, 2013:
 - http://www.meetup.com/Buttonwood-SF-P2P-Cryptocurrency-Trading

The first Buttonwood-style event in Berlin will be July 29th:
 - https://www.facebook.com/events/495971010475226/

The first Miami Satoshi Square will be today (July 23rd, 2013):
 - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1iu8l7/tomorrow_miamis_first_satoshi_square_at_bayside/

The first Toronto Satoshi Square will be next Monday, July 29th, 2013:
 - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1iudha/reminder_toronto_satoshi_square_next_monday

There is a weekly trading event, "Talk 'N Trade" in San Diego (Tuesdays):
 - http://www.meetup.com/Bitcoin-Traders-of-San-Diego

[Update: And now also Singapore:

Singapore's 1st Buttonwood - meetup event Aug 1
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264180

 - http://www.meetup.com/BitcoinSingapore ]

[Update 2: And Panama:

https://twitter.com/satoshi_square/status/384811183657582592 ]

[Update 3: Reportedly these have occurred in Helsinki, Finland and Winnipeg, ON, Canada also.   Please share the link if anyone knows of these or any others I've missed.]

I remember when I posted the first event here, and couldn't get it off the noob boards, lol.

Unfortunately, this kind of press is actually not good for bitcoin. It gives it a bad reputation.

I don't think so, the author actually understands that bitcoin is unstoppable because of this

Actually, it is good for bitcoin - because it shows how a decentralized trading pit can overcome most restrictions placed on the legacy banking system links.

Sure, banks make things convenient if you're forced to use their system, but it isn't the only way.

The author might understand that, but it makes it so that anyone that's actually heard of bitcoin thinks it's something shady. I was telling a coworker about it a couple weeks ago, and he said he had heard the government had shut it down.  ::)

hmmmm....you have more than $15,000 in monthly expenses? That is what we did 2 weeks ago. $10,000? That is what we did yesterday...we move volume, and more importantly, you are getting linked in with people, forming trading relationships. If I need cash, I can call Owen, or Dustin, or Kirill and they will buy my coins, and vice versa if I need coins quick, I can always tap into this network. Also, as this paradigm spreads, and more people start doing this, the network will evolve. I have friends in LA, and across the world, I can sell their coins for them here, and vice versa. If the two parties are willing, they can work out terms of settlement on their own.

Satoshi Square in New York is getting very close (we may have passed it already...) to $100,000 in volume. Now this is not anything compared to Mt. Gox, but do you know how many times we have halted trading? 0. How many times have we frozen accounts? 0

The response has been overwhelmingly positive. Even Jeremias Kangas from Localbitcoins.com has said that it makes sense.

That being said, it is not an all or nothing proposition. If you have a business level of commerce, perhaps you need a professional, enterprise solution. But does one guy who wants to buy one coin, who just heard of bitcoin for the first time, really need to wait 2 weeks for approval on mt. gox? I say no. That is a huge and very inconvenient barrier to entry. Many people aren't willing to give up credentials or even link their bank account in any way. Point is that this is necessary, and that is being shown.

Also, who cares what whales think? Buttonwood exchanges ARE a great place to buy bitcoins. We don't need to bring cops with us there, there are already cops in the park! Young couples bring their infants with them, and buy a couple coins because they heard about it. I understand the reticence to meet up with a stranger for a financial transaction. This avoids that, you are meeting a group of 30-40 people. There is, as the casascius coins say, Strength in Numbers. You get better prices, because there is competition.

If you want to learn more about it, meet established people in the bitcoin space, or just want to grab a coin or two, there is no easier way. As the first post showed, this is spreading. It makes sense to people in a way that the pseudo-trader, wall street wannabe methods don't. I am not saying that there isn't room for regulated, professional exchanges, but I don't think we should put ALL our eggs in that basket. It is much easier to set up these networks now, while we don't have a problem, than to find out you need them one day, and have nowhere to turn.

If I seem passionate about this, it is because I am. I believe in the distributed, decentralized model. That is why we are in bitcoin in the first place, no? The ability to transact individual to individual, with no middle man, is that not touted as one of the biggest benefits of bitcoin? We have new people showing up every week. Building community, building the bitcoin identity is at least as important as providing access to the currency. Bitcoin is an emerging market, and when you get this many talented, bright people together, ideas start flying.

If anyone wants to discuss further, I'm available.

Most people wonder who those group of young professionals are...not shady at all, and most of the people who show up feel very comfortable and safe.

I thought it was a great article. It gives bitcoin trading a sense of adventure. The "off-the-books" references may turn off some people, but overall I don't think the article makes face-to-face trading look shady as much as it makes it seem up-and-coming.

I trade a lot bitcoins through LocalBitcoins, and I think it is easily the fastest and most convenient way for a person new to Bitcoin to obtain bitcoins. I spend a lot of time explaining things and I do it mostly as a way to promote and support Bitcoin. I certainly don't make much money -- most of my fee goes to Starbucks, actually.

Yeah, you are totally right...Charlie Shrem, Fred Wilson (invested in CoinBase), guys from Coinapult, lots of knowledgeable people. Lawyers like Marco Santori, Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation's Regulatory Affairs Committee, guys from Hedge Funds, many members of the press, many representatives of the bitangel investment fund. It is very easy to be dismissive, and I don't mind if you don't like it, or are not interested. Just saying, some people DO find value there, and for them, it continues to be a welcome meetup.

I agree, I know quite a few localbitcoiners, and they travel all across brooklyn, providing access. One of them comes to buttonwood to "re-up" after selling to all these people. It is useful to have pools of liquidity.

WTF is your problem?!  If you don't want to exchange BTC IRL then don't go.  Nobody needs EV to show flush with 100k BTC from the SD sale -- there's not that kind of volume.  "Established" in this context simply means consistently willing and able to trade coin.

Don't sh*t on other people's fun just b/c it doesn't fit your personal needs.

Luckily, we do... :)

One guy recently came and bought $10,000. By himself. I cannot tell you how many people have had more than $1,000. That is not a lot to carry...

We are in the middle of a public space, surrounded by police in broad daylight. I never said (in fact, I explicitly said the opposite) that EVERYONE should use this for EVERYTHING. I said that for RETAIL CONSUMERS, who aren't interested in brokerage accounts, it is the easiest and fastest way to buy or sell. For institutional investors, obviously they may benefit from institutional exchanges, and those exist to service them. Again, to each their own, the fact that there are now 5 others, says that many people are seeing the value. In the same way that OTC can facilitate large trades based on a WoT, that is already forming, and hopefully will be formalized soon. I'm sorry that we don't merit your attention, I think that we will survive. I for one, am not anonymous, you know exactly who I am. I can't say the same for you however...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the same time you are being very discouraging simply because Buttonwood does not fit your needs. We Get It. Your debate is not constructive, it is belittling.

Guess what?  It doesn't fit my needs either... but unlike you, I can imagine people who would find it very convenient.  Cash is a simple solution to the BTC fiat impedance mismatch.

And chew on this; I'll bet that this service is distributing coins to more newbies then average, and that a much greater % of the sales in this market move the coins off the market (to small hoarders) as compared to an exchange like Gox.

wow, you really have done not even a google search huh? http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2013/06/bitcoin-bits.html

and that was the day we did $15,000. I already mentioned that we had two other $10,000 days. And you seem to think that I am starting the latest mt. gox competitor, I am not. This is not an "exchange" in the sense you mean. This is a place to build community, and provide liquidity, instantly. Without all the bullshit you get when you deal with exchanges. In that respect, it does what it is meant to beautifully. There is more to a market than volume and transactions. There are people and relationships, and while Mt. Gox and other exchanges have neglected that, this model embraces that.  

Seriously, I'm glad you are so cool. Mircea says:

(5:17:42 PM) mircea_popescu: mjr_ nice answer.
(5:18:04 PM) mircea_popescu: gweedo is a sort of tradefortress. young guy, joined < 1 year ago, managed to mauintain interest
(5:18:30 PM) mircea_popescu: which'd put him a step above the average six week old noob,
(5:18:35 PM) mircea_popescu: and two steps above the random nut.

So the fact that he has heard of you is actually impressive. You didn't come up much when we were in Romania though at the conference...so I would pipe down just a little. I've tried to stay civil, but you seem to be trolling. This is a means to provide access, it is a place to get instant liquidity. A place to build community. It is not meant for institutions. It is meant for individuals. That has been clearly and expressly stated from the beginning.

I mean of course you are entitled to your opinions, but why do you care so much? As someone else beautifully put it:

And I do welcome the opportunity to discuss it, but there is little point in discussing why fish aren't dogs...

You do seem quite antagonistic, and I don't mind that, but I think you could pick actually valid points to argue. Like, what about security? It only meets once a week? etc.

Those are issues that have been looked into. Things are growing, and in the same way that bitcoin is not now what it will one day be, neither is satoshi square. I think the other people understand the purpose behind it. Let's say hypothetically that a large exchange stops you from being able to wire dollars to yourself. This is an alternative.

If you have anything constructive or interesting to say, I am here and willing to discuss other than that, I have a lot of work to get to.

This kid is going places, I say.

Looking forward to seeing this P2P orderbook  ;D

If you would like to see my first attempts (very beta) at doing just that, please check out:

buttonwood.btcshares.com (order functionality, buggy)
buttonwood_advanced.meteor.com (the framework in which i will plug that order book in)
https://github.com/joshuarossi

it will have the following features, the way I have envisioned it:
1. User ratings
2. Geolocation (implemented but buggy)
3. Notification system
4. Profile system which links in with online identity (twitter, irc, bitcointalk, facebook, twitter, google, etc)
5. Market Data feeds and API access

And a lot more...

I am a huge fan of zeroblock and would welcome working with you, if you would rather partner with what I am trying to do.

TBH, Satoshi Square is more of a meetup (granted, with a primary purpose of facilitating trade) than an "exchange" at this point. And that's fine. It suits my purposes perfectly.

Has there been any talk of starting a buttonwood in San Jose / Silicon Valley? 

two things...

all exchanges are essentially "meetup" groups, that is how the first exchanges/bourses/markets started. Whether people "meetup" online, or in person, you are joining a group for the purpose of transacting. Also, I think that you are mistaking differences in scale to differences in kind. A market is a market, whether it is a large market, or a small one. The goals and methods are the same. That is also why Satoshi Square is not the same as other meetup groups, people are coming prepared to trade (cash and bitcoins), because they know the goals of the meetup group they are attending. If I show up at a meetup group that is based on providing information, and ask to buy (or sell) $10,000 worth of bitcoin, I most likely won't be able to do that, the people who can facilitate transactions of that size may not be present, or may not be prepared. Like all meetup groups, clarity of focus and stated goals is what is important. There is no reason that you can't have multi-dimensional meetup groups, and that is actually how I see this idea spreading to multiple days of the week.

Second, the guy who bought $10,000 in one shot was not providing liquidity, he was taking liquidity. If you understand markets, you will know that this is the case. We typically have many people willing to sell, if the price is right, but they are basically leaving orders on the book, he came in and did a "market buy", and swept through the book. We were able to provide liquidity for someone who wanted to execute a large trade, he had not arranged this trade in advance, or planned it out with others, he just showed up, and expected that people would be there to fill his order, and they were. You can also tell who is the maker and who is the taker by who set the price... Providing liquidity is the service of satoshi square.

I think there was some talk of starting one in San Jose/San Fran/Bay Area, but I am not 100% sure how that is coming along.

I am simply saying that it hasn't progressed to the point where we have many rules. That's the distinction I'm making, not scale. We meet, talk about things, trade, but the trading process is not very formalized.

I agree, its kind of a free for all, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing...berlin was using a chalkboard, and they meet in a bar. We met in a park, and have tried various methods. Things will evolve, and better to let the market determine what direction.

That being said, I think that formalization is a function of time and popularity, we are the people (i include you in this) who will eventually set and "enforce" the rules of our exchange. Like any social gathering, the etiquette is usually set by the earliest adopters...they provide the "culture".