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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: billyjoeallen on July 06, 2011, 07:57:10 PM



Title: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: billyjoeallen on July 06, 2011, 07:57:10 PM
After getting my Nth Nigerian scam email, it occurred to me that nobody sane would be willing to do business with anyone in Nigeria using PayPal, eChecks or even Mastercard. Nigerians may be forced to use Bitcoin because it's the only form of payment anyone can trust!

I certainly know it's the only way I would sell anything to a Nigerian.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: 1.21gigawatts on July 06, 2011, 08:02:28 PM
title of thread is misleading


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: ampkZjWDQcqT on July 06, 2011, 08:04:39 PM
Please note not all nigerians are criminals. Some people from Nigeria are, that's true for any country or social group.

There is a related essay in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html).


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: PCRon on July 06, 2011, 08:06:39 PM
After getting my Nth Nigerian scam email, it occurred to me that nobody sane would be willing to do business with anyone in Nigeria using PayPal, eChecks or even Mastercard. Nigerians may be forced to use Bitcoin because it's the only form of payment anyone can trust!

I certainly know it's the only way I would sell anything to a Nigerian.

Wait, are you saying the Nigerian Prince has Bitcoin he wants me to redeem for him?


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: airdata on July 06, 2011, 08:16:21 PM
i've requested payment via paypal to the last few scam emails I've gotten.

Still waiting for a serious response.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: static on July 06, 2011, 08:37:48 PM


dumb thread


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: billyjoeallen on July 06, 2011, 08:40:13 PM
i've requested payment via paypal to the last few scam emails I've gotten.

Still waiting for a serious response.

I've gotten fake emails from someone claiming to be Paypal that stated the payment was received! I logged into my real Paypal account and the balance was zero. Of course I never shipped the product, but it was an impressive 2 part scam.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: billyjoeallen on July 06, 2011, 08:45:23 PM
title of thread is misleading

Should I have written "forced by economic necessity"? That would have been too verbose.

I'm not saying there are no honest people in Nigeria. I am saying there is no easy way to distinguish them from the crooks. Bitcoin allows us to do business with any Nigerian without the risk of a fraudulent chargeback, reversed payment from a stolen credit card, forged check, counterfeit bills, etc.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Steve on July 06, 2011, 08:54:10 PM
This is a very good point...it is hard to sell using traditional payment methods to people in some countries due to the level of fraud.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: foggyb on July 06, 2011, 09:11:16 PM
Please note not all nigerians are criminals. Some people from Nigeria are, that's true for any country or social group.

There is a related essay in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html).


I have 2nd hand knowledge about life in Nigeria. Its full of scammers, thieves, and corruption. You can't drive 30 miles without running into a roadblock manned by thugs, government or otherwise, who will let you live if you pay the toll. Heaven help you if you actually need something from the government. They will delay delay delay until you flash some American dollar.

That said, bitcoin in Africa? Not bloody likely. They are lucky when the power stays on long enough to cook supper.





Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on July 06, 2011, 09:41:38 PM
After getting my Nth Nigerian scam email, it occurred to me that nobody sane would be willing to do business with anyone in Nigeria using PayPal, eChecks or even Mastercard. Nigerians may be forced to use Bitcoin because it's the only form of payment anyone can trust!

I certainly know it's the only way I would sell anything to a Nigerian.

Wait, are you saying the Nigerian Prince has Bitcoin he wants me to redeem for him?


...I am a civil adviser currently working with the monitoring committee overseeing the winding up of the petroleum trust fund (PTF). Myself and my close and trusted colleagues need your assistance in the transfer of 25,000,000 BTC into any reliable Account you may nominate overseas. This fund was generated from...


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: ampkZjWDQcqT on July 06, 2011, 09:50:21 PM
Please note not all nigerians are criminals. Some people from Nigeria are, that's true for any country or social group.

There is a related essay in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html).


I have 2nd hand knowledge about life in Nigeria. Its full of scammers, thieves, and corruption. You can't drive 30 miles without running into a roadblock manned by thugs, government or otherwise, who will let you live if you pay the toll. Heaven help you if you actually need something from the government. They will delay delay delay until you flash some American dollar.

That said, bitcoin in Africa? Not bloody likely. They are lucky when the power stays on long enough to cook supper.

I don't know how Nigeria is. The point isn't whether Nigeria is peaceful or hostile, rather than we shouldn't assume everybody will share the same features (Being a criminal in this case) even when most people do.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on July 06, 2011, 09:55:17 PM
Please note not all nigerians are criminals. Some people from Nigeria are, that's true for any country or social group.

There is a related essay in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html).


No, they aren't. You're right.
But certain countries have an unacceptable history of internet fraud (statistically).  So most online retailers block them from purchasing anything

(Romania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Ukraine, Bangladesh)

If any of these countries started using bitcoins for their online purchases, everyone would ship there. Since bitcoins can't be reversed in any possible way, the seller is 100% protected against fraud,
and scammers are unlikely to purchase anything because they realize they can't cheat the seller.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: blogospheroid on July 07, 2011, 05:25:16 AM
After getting my Nth Nigerian scam email, it occurred to me that nobody sane would be willing to do business with anyone in Nigeria using PayPal, eChecks or even Mastercard. Nigerians may be forced to use Bitcoin because it's the only form of payment anyone can trust!

I certainly know it's the only way I would sell anything to a Nigerian.


No, they aren't. You're right.
But certain countries have an unacceptable history of internet fraud (statistically).  So most online retailers block them from purchasing anything
(Romania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Ukraine, Bangladesh)
If any of these countries started using bitcoins for their online purchases, everyone would ship there. Since bitcoins can't be reversed in any possible way, the seller is 100% protected against fraud,
and scammers are unlikely to purchase anything because they realize they can't cheat the seller.


Amazing food for thought, Billyjoeallen and Jack. This was a truly new idea/thought for the day relating to bitcoin. This coin HAS LEGS. It will last, in niches unimagined by us now. As hardy as the bloody cockroach! As long as power supply and network protocols exist, this coin will last.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Sandoz on July 07, 2011, 06:49:47 PM
Please note not all nigerians are criminals. Some people from Nigeria are, that's true for any country or social group.

There is a related essay in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html).


No, they aren't. You're right.
But certain countries have an unacceptable history of internet fraud (statistically).  So most online retailers block them from purchasing anything

(Romania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Ukraine, Bangladesh)

If any of these countries started using bitcoins for their online purchases, everyone would ship there. Since bitcoins can't be reversed in any possible way, the seller is 100% protected against fraud,
and scammers are unlikely to purchase anything because they realize they can't cheat the seller.


The sad thing is that everyone would scam them.. They pay, you don't send them anything..


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on July 07, 2011, 06:55:36 PM
The sad thing is that everyone would scam them.. They pay, you don't send them anything..

Reputation systems eliminate this risk even on anonymous sites like Silkroad, let alone 'legit' sites on the real internet.

Only buy from people who are proven to send merchandise. Always make a small first purchase then gradually move upwards.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: ampkZjWDQcqT on July 07, 2011, 08:26:38 PM
Hmm, real internet? I wasn't aware of the existence of a fake one.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: NO_SLAVE on July 07, 2011, 08:28:46 PM


dumb thread

yep^^^


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Tasty Champa on July 07, 2011, 08:39:55 PM
http://www.jack-frost.co.uk/fonejacker/fonejacker_george_agdgdgwngo_4.jpg
http://matookenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/george-fonejacker.jpg


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Eri on July 08, 2011, 01:01:21 AM
cool topic. haters will hate.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: EconomicOracle on July 08, 2011, 05:25:21 AM
I agree. The problem with USD is that it can be easily used to scam. If you get a scam email, I'd recommend you inform them about bitcoin and refuse to accept any other form of payment.

I'd also recommend you check out bitcoin if you haven't heard of it. It's the future of currency and it can't be used to scam, the government can't control it (so it's invincible), you can use it anywhere, and many more.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: payb.tc on November 25, 2011, 10:16:12 AM
very old thread, sorry...

can anyone recommend the best way for a Nigerian to convert his Naira to bitcoin? do any exchanges accept naira locally or they have to do an international wire?


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Mike Hearn on November 25, 2011, 10:30:21 AM
The best way would probably be for somebody there to become a local exchanger. It only really takes one guy in Lagos or Abuja to buy some Bitcoins and then resell them for cash to set up a kind of local exchange network.

Rather than use a western exchange like MtGox, something that integrates with M-PESA is probably the way to go (maybe not in Nigeria but in Kenya and other places where M-PESA is common). Agent networks are apparently really important there.

On the wider issue, which I hadn't seen before, Bitcoin in developing countries is a topic I find really interesting. Whilst Nigeria is a bit of a stretch due to the flaky power and internet access there, the same problems can be seen all over sub-Saharan Africa to a lesser degree and Bitcoin could potentially find a niche there. Lack of robust trusted institutions, issues with international payments due to fraud, importance of mobile payments, etc.

Bitcoin wouldn't really help address the issue of people in the west being scammed. Most 419 scams rely on the fact that Western Union allows you to send money to one place (ie, London) whilst believing you sent it somewhere else (Nigeria), this is obviously a property of Bitcoin addresses too. Except it'd be even worse because Western Union agents do sometimes notify you of potential fraud when you go to send the money, whereas obviously Bitcoin never will. But it would help people there make purchases from outside the country more easily.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: ovidiusoft on November 25, 2011, 12:13:17 PM
But certain countries have an unacceptable history of internet fraud (statistically).  So most online retailers block them from purchasing anything
(Romania

Please check your facts. *Most* online retailers *don't* block romanian cards or shipping addresses. I never had any problem with them since I began buying stuff online (+8 years). I used debit or credit cards, probably all possible variations from Visa and Mastercard. Except some delay with the shipments, I always got what I ordered.

So if you could just stick to writing about what you can check yourself, that would be great. Thanks.

PS: I think I should clarify. By "online retailers" I mean Amazon and the likes, not "smallbusinesswhosells3itemsadayandissofraidofhackurs.com". I wouldn't trust to buy from those either, so I guess it's ok if they don't want my business :).


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: DeepBit on November 25, 2011, 01:07:31 PM
That said, bitcoin in Africa? Not bloody likely. They are lucky when the power stays on long enough to cook supper.
You won't believe me, but Africa is leading by mobile payments usage.

May be they just need a client for J2ME platform :)


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: julz on November 25, 2011, 01:25:10 PM
That said, bitcoin in Africa? Not bloody likely. They are lucky when the power stays on long enough to cook supper.

You won't believe me, but Africa is leading by mobile payments usage.

May be they just need a client for J2ME platform :)

Sounds believable to me..  With things like M-Pesa being such a big success in Kenya, I suspect the average person would look at Bitcoin and say 'why bother' - we already have an electronic payment system that works on even very modest phones, and there are exchangers and merchants for it all over the place.





Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: fornit on November 25, 2011, 04:54:42 PM
for comparison, i just checked how expensive m-pesa payments are.

in kenya you pay roughly 0.27$ (30 ksh) for a standard size atm withdrawal or mobile payment. nominal per capita gdp is 875$, in western countries its around 40.000$, 45 times higher. so this 0.3$ feels like 12$ to the average kenyan. i dont know how many m-pesa payments a kenyan usually does per year, but 12$ sounds high enough to be an incentive to use an alternative where its possible.

also interesting: http://technology.cgap.org/2009/09/08/understanding-what-drives-profits-for-agents-m-pesa/
Quote
The number one cost for most agents was liquidity management moving cash. Agents report a host of expenses, including bank charges, transport costs, and fees to aggregators who advance commissions and provide easy float/cash swaps for agents. On average, liquidity management consumed 30% of total expenses. Extending the network of aggregators would help alleviate some of the costs, and Safaricom has taken steps to calibrate the fees aggregators charge.

thats something that can completly vanish if you use bitcoin exclusively. of course that would require pretty much everyone accepting bitcoin. its still interesting to see how expensive it is to have digital money on top of a physical fiat currency.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Mike Hearn on November 25, 2011, 06:04:05 PM
Thanks fornit, that's really interesting.

For Bitcoin to flourish, you'd need either to repeat the process of building a large agent network (tough: Safaricom did it by bootstrapping from airtime resellers), or find some way to make it self building, like through a peer-to-peer exchange. Think Ripple combined with Bitcoin.

There are now $80 Android smartphones that have access to all the modern facilities, and I guess costs will only drop in future. You could potentially do something really game-changing with smartphone facilities. That said, an obscure currency and high-end phones are probably not going to be a winning combination anytime soon ... it may be that Bitcoin+Africa is something that'd have to wait.

Bitcoin+FSU seems much more interesting as a geographical focus point for now.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: payb.tc on November 25, 2011, 09:25:25 PM
Bitcoin+FSU seems much more interesting as a geographical focus point for now.

Florida State University?
Finance Sector Union?
Feminist Students United?

please tell me what it is as i can't find a matching acronym, thanks.


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: cablepair on November 25, 2011, 09:36:35 PM
Duh...

you are way behind on the news, Nigeria already has their own cryptocurrency

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51737.0



Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: Mike Hearn on November 26, 2011, 01:28:10 PM
FSU = former soviet union


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: BootstrapCoinDev on November 30, 2014, 09:45:05 PM
Please note not all nigerians are criminals. Some people from Nigeria are, that's true for any country or social group.

There is a related essay in http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/my_doom.html).

I dated a girl from Nigeria for a few years and her and her sister talked about One timers. Supposedly people being kidnapped and sold to Voodoo practitioners. Is this real? If so what do you know about it?


Title: Re: Nigeria may be forced to adopt bitcoin
Post by: xkrishna on December 01, 2014, 09:36:53 AM
title of thread is misleading

its news not title ......