Bitcoin Forum

Greetings,
I've been on this section for a while, most of the time are trying to offer loans.
But this time, I think it's my turn to ask for a favor

I was recently scammed $550 by this user:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2615342.0

I'm running a small studio, handling art design, translation, programming, etc., and I have just given out the year end bonus to my workers.
The money I lost should be my living cost this week, until the payment from my client comes in Friday.

I have to admit that I don't really have valuable stuff to offer at this time because of the situation that I mentioned, and I'm fully aware that I should have collateral to ask for a loan.
I doubt there's someone willing to offer me a loan only with my account, however, I do know there's a method which I have seen on another forum - PayPal loan. The method is quite simple - You send the loan via Good&Service. When I repay, I just use the refund feature to repay the capital, and make another payment for interests. If I don't repay, you can still file a dispute on the transaction to get your fund back.
Basically, the "Buyer Protection" is my collateral, you should be able to get your fund back with this feature, if I don't repay in the end. We all know PayPal tend to protect buyers, so you shouldn't worry about the outcome of the dispute, if I have nothing to offer.
I'm looking for $100 loan on either BTC or PayPal, the repayment date is next Saturday. The interests should be 20%, we can discuss further if you have a different proposal.
Please let me know if this still against the forum rule, I'll lock the thread soon.

Thanks for all of your helps in advance, and I prewish you have a wonderful new year.

and if the loaner loses the dispute? there is always this risk. Why don't you ask to your friends?

Hello,
Basically, there's 90% of chance that the buyer won't lose the dispute, as PayPal tends to protect buyers. And as long as I can't provide concrete evidence that I have delivered something to you, you should win the dispute. I know this because I do worldwide business, and I dealt with this kinds of situation a lots.
I'm running a small studio here, I don't want there to be any rumor that I got scammed or I'm short of cash, it'd damage my business, especially when I can get back to normal in a few days.

Also, what most scammers don't know is, they don't even need to win the dispute to get their money. They just need to run away with your money before you filed a dispute. If you win the dispute in the end, PayPal will cover the refund, they just get negative balance in their fake account, which they don't give a sh*t.
I'm not telling you I'm going to do this or saying it's right to do this, I'm just saying there won't be any good for me to fight for the dispute.
Also, my business depends on this account, so I'll ofc take great care.

so there is a risk of 10%. can you prove that your business depends on this paypal account? why don't you provide a physical collateral? in alternative you can directly sell your stuff, are you writing from a computer, right?

I'm not sure how do I prove this, it'd be much appreciated if you can give me some advice. However, I can prove that my Upwork account is linked with this PayPal.
I don't think there would be enough time for me to ship the physical collateral, though I only have a jade bracelet from my family.
We're offering digital stuffs, like digital painting or translation, etc. Though I can sell our artbooks in the local exhibition, but there's no exhibition now, and I doubt that I can get enough money from online selling in short time. I tried to offer my service on this forum, even if it's holiday here, as you can see in my previous post. Unfortunately, I didn't get any luck from that.
In short, I have tried my best not to open a loan here, but I can't really find a way out.
Or if you're willing to offer me a loan with my service as repayment, I could do that too, but I guess that would be "order for service"?
Also, I'm posting with my phone, but I don't think it has anything to do with this thread?

I don't think it would be safe to assume that PayPal tends to protect the buyer. They will be partial when dealing with dispute cases, especially if the "seller" (which would be you in this case) aggressively defends the transaction against a charge back or dispute by making creative excuses about the nature of the transaction. Or worse, you might withdraw the funds from a throwaway PayPal account and never be heard of again. A dispute in this case would be moot since PayPal will have nothing to draw or recover funds from, leaving the "seller" (lender) with no recourse.

PayPal will not simply reverse the funds if there are no funds to recover in the first place. If the goods and services terms are not met (if there is no proof of anything shipped or not shipped) then protection terms might not apply.

This is too risky. You can't really use PayPal as a form of collateral. Anything related to PayPal guarantees nothing. They are unpredictable.

Hi,
About your question, first of all, as I mentioned, I don't really need to fight for the dispute, as I can just run with your money before you file a dispute. So basically the result has nothing to do with me, as long as the account, is as you said, a throwaway account. But the buyer can still get the fund back, because PayPal will cover it.
According to my experience, if the seller can't provide a concrete proof like tracking number, no matter how hard he explain, buyer could win the dispute in the end.
This is what I have seen in another forum, but I'm not quite sure which is it. So I believe this way could work, cause though it still risky, but it's still a guarantee that you can get your fund back, if this is really a scam. And I think 90% of chance is enough to compete with other collaterals.

i can provide you some loan for collateral get to me on skype

Be careful of Skype conversations. Be even much more careful if you are asked to send the collateral upfront to none other than the “lender”.

There is something called a collateral scam. It’s when a scammer pretends to be a lender and demands collateral be sent to him first. The typical identifiers and red flags are

- fairly young account
- orders desperate borrowers to “get to me on Skype”
- asks for collateral upfront
- refuses escrow to hold the collateral

Solution:

- refuse to talk on Skype. It’s where scammers prefer to congregate so they can financially rape their victims undisturbed.
- insist on letting a trusted escrow hold the collateral
- discuss the loan’s terms publicly here.

Hi, thanks for your kindly offer, however, I agree with warningsings - we should discuss publicly here.
As I mentioned, I don't really have a collateral, but I'm open to any deal.

So you are a Jr. Memeber here and you don't have read the stickies as you should.
You say that you have Collateral but in fact, you don't.
You say that you give Loans most of your time here (as a Jr. Alt account?!) but you don't follow the simple "rules" around.

Of course you are open to any deal, who doesn't want a donation without any strings (and Collateral) attached?
This is a Non-Collateral Loan from the start and you should have known better that it's not going to work. At all.
Better to lock this Thread and try elsewhere, before it get's worse than it is. Good luck.

First of all, I should be a full member now, if my account was not blocked for no reason (please see my thread), but it doesn't matter I think.
And in my opinion, the meaning of collateral is giving lender an opportunity to redeem something for cash when the borrower is not paying back, which, in this scenario, I think the Buyer Protection has the similar function.
And as I said, this is a method I saw elsewhere, but I'm not a member of that forum, I just think this could work.
As to "I'm open to any deal", I was simply referring to collateral. As I was actually selling some BTC before, and this guy was going to trade with me, before I successfully traded with another guy. So I was thinking if he has any offer, like take both of my little BTC and buyer protection as collateral.

I know there are scammers lurking in this forum, which I'm also the victim of this situation, and I'm trying to propose a different way of terms, which you have a great chance to get your fund back if I really not paying back.

If I get red tagged simply because I'm proposing different kinds of proposal, then I can do nothing but only feel very disappointed, like my main account got blocked for no reason at all.

I'm willing to "lose" 100USD in BTC, IF you can send me valid proof of address of your business. This is not a threat, but I work with EALG so I would easily file a complaint and prosecute your as** . And believe me, in what I do for a living I already snatched people 10000 KM from where I am for a lot less.

No, but seriously, I'm willing to lend - honest business. I do not want no collateral and I don't want to use Paypal, just simple lending to a simple user. But you would have to send me proof of address (via PM) and any sort of document that states your business (website, domain registry, anything that supports your claims).

I would charge you 25% interest.

There are my terms, if interested, we can go public with the deal (thought the documentation would be sent on a private stance).

Hit me up if you're interested. :)

Hey, thanks for your generous offer, much appreciated.
I'm willing to provide any documents that support my claim.
I was mostly doing business on Upwork, and here's my profiles:
https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~018247f557a4694480
https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~016b396faa7c7ef406
I have 2 accounts, because the old one was blocked, as they said I was asking for payment outside their website, which I was not aware this is against their policy.

I'm expanding my business, also trying to jump off Upwork's limit recently, as their policy has changed, which doesn't really apply to us anymore.
Unfortunately, my cashflow is tight, and expanding business cost a lots, so many things are still under construction - including my official website: http://cliffstudio.weebly.com
It's 70% done, but I still need people and fund to finish some works like IT and graphic design. And that cost a lots too, so it's still under construction.

As to business address, though cheating you or giving you a fake document would be much easier, however, I have to admit that though I'm running a studio now, but like many new generation business, we normally done our work online or remotely, which usually has no connection to local business. And I'm was transformed from individual freelancer to a studio, and registering a company also requires lots of fund, so unfortunately, I haven't registered my business yet, though it should be done early this year, after Chinese New Year.
However, I can provide you a proof of address of my household address that issued by our gov., it was used as proof of address when I was opening an offshore account.
Please know if you need anything else, I'll do my best to provide them.
Thanks.

To go public, I'm lending this user the 100USD he asked, since he was able to instate minimum docummented guarantees that he's going to pay.

This post is to make that public and I will update it in conformity so that others can follow up. I will either burn him or vouch him :)

If 100USD can do a difference in someone's life and if the risk assessment has a minimum support, I think we should help people. Not everyone has collateral to give away.

Will keep this thread updated

@kii552007_alt - please reply to this topic and refer your acceptance / commitment in repaying until this Saturday.

I confirm @biulas is lending me $100 worth of BTC (0.006674), and the scheduled repayment date is this Saturday (1/6). The interests is 25%, and the total repayment is $125 worth of BTC, rate is determined by the preeve rate at the time of repaying.
The receiving address is:
1Dz6Ae4z4RdpSL86m7o3upwu7f9jchQUBd
The repayment address will be provided by the lender (biulas).

@biulas thanks a million for helping me out on this, I'll send you the repayment as soon as I received the fund from my client :)

No worries, I hope you are good for your word. As we've spoken, we can both benefit for this business :)

TRX ID - https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/a8c4acfb9b7a0068c7af42c6ea756cc95e2813864ebaf31cbc9dbcd47b0a20fc/

I confirm safe receipt, thanks a lots for your help!
Wish you have a wonderful new year :)

UPDATE ON THIS SUBJECT - VERY IMPORTANT!

First of all, let me just say - it is always refreshing to meet and make business with someone like kii552007_alt.

Despite what general thumb rules are, I like to think that there are people on this world that deserve a chance, even when at first glance, there are no conditions to support otherwise.

I'm hopping that this post, proves something to the community as it proved to myself, in believing that not always people are here to scam people. Some would say I was lucky. And I would say - I make my own fucking luck. That's why I'm writing this post on a beautiful island in the Land of Smiles (Thailand for the now knowing)

In resume:

- Sent to this user 0.00663200 with low fee. TRX got stuck in Blockchain due to known current delays
- User contacted me asking for help, since he needed the funds badly. This was Thursday.
- I replied him, and sent another transfer same value, with higher fees, agreeing that he would pay me back those fees Saturday
- Today user contacted me, showing proof that his costumer had already paid him, but since there is a BC congestion, there could be some delays
- Its now still Saturday here in Thailand (same timezone as the user, give or take 1 hour or two) and user contacted me pronto in order to proceed payment
- After some fun talk, we agreed on final amount - 0.00663200 BTC + 0.0006 fees from second transaction + 125USD at current rate on preev.com
- User has paid me in full - Total 0,014663 BTC TRX ID 1e661c2c4906da626266c4759b8d0347389d5d1e65d06c4a1a0395ed6781be26

What can I say?! Thank you ****** (name omited for security reasons) for the wonderful trade and as spoken, do no hesitate to reach me. If I can help I WILL.

Serves has a VOUCH,VOUCH, VOUCH for this user.

My 2 cents - topic closed!  :P

Glad to hear it went well, however please do take some precautions next time, it's all very good handling business based on trust and honor, but that often goes out the window when somebody is in a desperate situation and needs a quick buck.

It's my great hounour to have the chance getting help from biulas!
I have been on this lending section for a while, and to be honest, I was not expected to have a chance.
I found that this section has became more like "currency exchange", instead of "lending".
It's understandable that lending someone on the another part of the world is risky, that's why collateral matters.
However, like any other investments, there's always risk involved. And with deep research and communication, you could get more info to evaluate the investment.
I personally have been scammed on this forum for 4 times now, and I still believe that there's not just evil exist in this forum.

Thanks to biulas, when I was disappointed and about to give up, he handed a stick to the drowning me.
He explained all his rules, and I gave him the info he need and explained my situation.
The process was all nice and smooth, and biulas is really thoughtful:

1.Though I couldn't provided some documents he need at first place, but we found some alts in the end.
The original loan was stuck due to the low fees, however, after I let biulas know the situation, he sent out another tx immediately, without any further questions.

2. Our client paid us by Coinbase at their Friday night, which is early morning in our time. Unfortunately, the transaction was hold by Coinbase, and there's nothing I, or my client can do.
The original delay Coinbase stated was 12+ hours, then they change it to 72+ hours later on, and there's no tx id, since they have not even send you the tx yet, and you know how it looks like when you tell someone you have a tx but no tx id.
I was actually more nervous than biulas, as I know how is it feel like to be scammed, it sucks., and I don't want a generous person like biulas feels like I'm scamming him.
So I did my best to give him all the info I have, including the screenshot of my client saying the tx has been process on his side, and the address I was using for receiving the payment, so we could on the same page.
Luckily, biulas is thoughtful, he not only not blamed me on this delay, but also comfort me that he understand the situation, and everything is fine, as long as I keep updated him on the situation.

3.The tx finally came through at the late night of here, and it should be Sunday already in Thailand.
I contacted biulas, and discuss the repayment amount, we did the math together, and the agreed amount was 0.014663.
I sent out the repayment (with a crazy fees by accident!) and give biulas the tx id, he confirmed safe receipt immediately.

I don't know what to say, it was all nice and smooth like dream, I'm really glad that someone handed me a hand when I'm in need, and I believe I will do the same in the future.
Thank you ****** (name omited for security reasons) for the wonderful trade!

I VOUCH, VOUCH, VOUCH heavily for this user!

Thanks a millions!

But i did. User sent me his docs, pretty much all I requested and few more 😉

How do we know you two aren't the same person?   :P   :o

 :-\

Ahaha ok, Im only replying since your member status. Or else i would say f*** o**.

What do you suggest I can do to prove that? Honestly Im interested. 😁 We chatted on line, PM here in the fórum... 😁😂

I will also reply to you because of your status and you can say to me to f*** *f... :D
Are you pretending to be a fool or you really are one? You don't know any way to prove your words, because you talked online and via Forum PM?! :D
You are the smart one here so figure it out. It's not so hard. ;)

I don't know what to say here, I was going to lock this thread because this has done.
And I saw this tragedy here, that really sucks.
I mean, you just want to be haters and assume all the people on this world are scammer, don't you?
And when when things come opposite to what you think, you just say "oh, that's fake, prove it".
Yeah, we can provide all the chat log, but then? You can say that's fake too.

I don't think a scammer will be stupid enough to send his tx with that crazy fee (1555 sat/byte) back to himself.
And I don't think a scammer can speak fluent English and Ching English as same time - as you can see my English is much worse then biulas.

I don't know what to say, you want proof? We can send you all the things we have, and then?
What's the point? You would say "Oh, I'm sorry, I was wrong, I shouldn't doubt you."
Or you will say "Fake, scammer, GTxO"?

If it's the first one, sure, we will be more than happy to provide you all the info we have here.

I was acctually being honest, not sarcastic. I'm no smart guy, just one guy trying to help another.

And if the general community feels that this subject should be more proofed, I'm HONESTLY opened for suggestions. I mean, the conversations can't be faked I guess.

So again, it is on my best interest to make proof of this deal. Other user has already manifested himself, and on his interest, I think he would be keaned to post any sort of proof requested.

Oh I'm a fool alright. But my foolish life is giving me strawberries by the pool in Thailand. And I'm not local :)

For me this subject is closed... regarding us being the same user, well, maybe the mods can shed some light on that matter. For me, issue is closed.

User is prompt, good for his word, already vouched and left him trust note. He's good for his word. He sent me official paper from his governement stating his address. I work on an area that has access to forensics software that can analise if a JPEG was tampered in any way with fair amount of certainty. I didn't even used it. User was so quick to send me pictures that the possibility of being forged was extremly low.

Possible, but improbable. Trusted him, and it was deserved!!

My 2 cents.

Following by this personal loan, biulas filled my another business loan request.
Details:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2732715.0

Locking this thread now.