Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Pools => Topic started by: DrHaribo on July 08, 2011, 01:50:21 PM



Title: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]
Post by: DrHaribo on July 08, 2011, 01:50:21 PM
https://bitminter.com/banner/pool (https://bitminter.com)

Make bitcoins at the BitMinter mining pool!

Why you want to join us:
  • ASICs supported with variable difficulty and your choice of 1: Stratum, 2: GBT, or 3: getwork with rollntime
  • Merged mining - get namecoins for free while you make bitcoins
  • Fast custom miner, easy to use, requires no installation
  • Only 1% mining fee! Additional optional donation can be adjusted after signup.
  • We pay income from transaction fees in addition to the freshly minted coins
  • Hopper-safe: income is split fairly between users (weighted and shift-based PPLNS)
  • Immediate payout upon block confirmation, in addition to hourly payment runs
  • Very few stales (meaning more bitcoins)

Joining us takes seconds:
  • 1. Fill in the little sign-up form at https://bitminter.com/signup
  • 2. Start the miner with "engine start" here or on our website (Java (http://java.com) required)
  • 3. Experience mining the way it should be

https://bitminter.com/images/start.png (https://bitminter.com/client/bitminter.jnlp)

Connect with any miner:
You can click the "engine start" button to launch BitMinter client, our user-friendly alternative, or in case you already have a mining client installed, here's how to connect to BitMinter.

We support all three communication protocols for mining. The old "getwork" protocol is the most primitive. Of the two new mining protocols, GBT (getblocktemplate) is focused on letting miners see (or even modify) the contents of the blocks they are mining, while Stratum is focused on using very little bandwidth.

Connect to stratum+tcp://mint.bitminter.com:3333 (Stratum) or http://mint.bitminter.com:8332 (GBT or getwork). As user name put your BitMinter user name, an underscore, then a worker name, e.g. DrHaribo_FastWorker. In case you have firewall issues, port 5050 (Stratum) and 80 (GBT/getwork) are also available.

https://bitminter.com/images/carousel-client.jpg


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Daveid on July 08, 2011, 04:06:07 PM
Great concept in theory, but I cannot for the life of me get it to come even close the my Phoenix 1.50 + modified Phatk kernel results.

5850 @ 980/370 Mhz worksize 256
Pheonix: 403~
Bitminter: 360~

Quite a bit of difference! I'll try to fiddle around with it later, might possibly be Java slowing it.

Edit: Ok, so I changed the break interval to 1000ms and using the latest Java 7 JRE, and I saw results up to 440~, Incredible!
However, the miner fluctuates very badly. Since it's updating every second because of the break interval, you see it hit that really high number, then go to 360~, then even down to 320~ after that, then right back to 440~

If somehow that could be fixed, the fluctuations, this would definitely be my miner of choice


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 09, 2011, 12:24:44 PM
I'm not getting the same "better" results from my 4850 on a 6870. Getting about 255-257 (occasionally peaks at 271) when I can easily get 277-280 using poclbm using latest phatk kernel and 264 on Phoenix with phatk (same kernel).

But a few suggestions for the website:
1. Really needs to show total hash rate otherwise can't tell what's going on.
2. Better stats for solved blocks such as how much I got for each block, and possibly even how many shares.
3. Better real time stats such as how long the block has been running for, how many shares total for this block so far, how many each worker has submitted, etc.


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 09, 2011, 11:48:48 PM
Sorry you are not seeing satisfactory speed on your GPUs, guys. I am ordering a Radeon 5870 so I can make sure it runs well on your cards (VLIW5 architecture). I probably begin tweaking for that in a day or two.

Daveid: Glad to hear you like the miner. Today it only shows a 2-second average. I'll be implementing a longer-running average soon - it seems to be a common thing people want.

OCedHrt: I'll have total hash rate displayed very soon. Also better/more statistics are coming soon. But I'm not sure about real time stats, as it would aid pool hoppers. Of course I could switch to score-based payouts instead of proportional, but I'm not sure I like that system. I prefer everything to be as transparent and easy to understand as possible.

Right now you can see how many shares a worker ever produced in total, under "my account". I'm thinking of adding a reset-button and "shares since last reset" as well. That might be a good substitute for "shares submitted for current block" ?



Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: SteveFL on July 10, 2011, 12:52:14 AM
Tried this on a 5850 930/310 worksize 256 .  Was seeing about ~339MH/s

Using: phoenix.exe DEVICE=0 -u http://xxxxx_5850:xxxxx@mint.bitminter.com:8332 -k phatk VECTORS BFI_INT WORKSIZE=256 FASTLOOP=false AGGRESSION=13  gives me ~379 when it was running:

Code:
[09/07/2011 20:45:11] Phoenix 1.50 starting...
[09/07/2011 20:45:11] Connected to server
[09/07/2011 20:45:57] Result: 739060d3 accepted
[09/07/2011 20:46:26] Result: a2b15060 accepted
[09/07/2011 20:46:28] Result: dde3f5ff accepted
[09/07/2011 20:46:34] Result: e70c04af accepted
[09/07/2011 20:46:34] Result: 7641f7d6 accepted
[09/07/2011 20:46:39] Result: 2f70848d accepted
[09/07/2011 20:46:56] Disconnected from server
[09/07/2011 20:47:03] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[09/07/2011 20:47:03] Connected to server
[09/07/2011 20:47:22] Disconnected from server
[09/07/2011 20:47:25] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[09/07/2011 20:47:25] Connected to server
[09/07/2011 20:47:41] Disconnected from server
[09/07/2011 20:47:47] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[09/07/2011 20:47:47] Connected to server
[09/07/2011 20:48:01] Disconnected from server
[09/07/2011 20:48:01] Result: 0adeb3ab rejected
[09/07/2011 20:48:07] Result: 1dd61cda accepted
[09/07/2011 20:48:07] Result: 499e0205 accepted
[09/07/2011 20:48:10] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[09/07/2011 20:48:10] Result: 76c9182d accepted
[09/07/2011 20:48:10] Connected to server
[09/07/2011 20:48:25] Disconnected from server
[09/07/2011 20:48:31] Result: c8e0a09b rejected
[09/07/2011 20:48:33] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[09/07/2011 20:48:33] Result: 10dfd9f6 accepted
[09/07/2011 20:48:34] Connected to server
[09/07/2011 20:49:12] Disconnected from server
[09/07/2011 20:49:17] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[09/07/2011 20:49:18] Connected to server

I don't know if it doesn't like phoenix but I'm usually pretty stable with the other pools.  Hope this helps.



Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 10, 2011, 03:34:49 PM
Thanks for the testrun, SteveFL.

I will have performance improved on radeon 4xxx and 5xxx in a few days.

The pool works well with Phoenix. I was just upgrading to the latest bitcoind at the moment you got disconnected. For some reason the old bitcoind took a while to shut down, which caused timeouts in the pool.


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Soak on July 11, 2011, 07:27:48 AM
I notice a big difference with hashrates between original bitcoin client and BitMinter miner (in the best case), look at this:

Original bitcoin client

http://i.min.us/jedbRO.jpg (http://min.us/ledbRO)

BitMinter miner

http://i.min.us/jecZJG.jpg (http://min.us/lecZJG)

CPU-Z

http://i.min.us/jecZF0.jpg (http://min.us/lecZF0)

I hope you will find how to do more than original bitcoin client :D


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: NetTecture on July 11, 2011, 07:32:57 AM
I notice a big difference with hashrates between original bitcoin client and Bitminter miner (in the best case), look at this:

Gratulations. You just dfound out the difference between CPU and GPU mining. The rest of us did that months ago ;)

The "orignial bitcoin client" is worthless for mining these days, the option will be removed (or has been removed in the most recent build).


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: iopq on July 11, 2011, 07:38:29 AM
I'm still getting only 114Mhash/s with bitminter (manual vectors off, work size 128) vs. 140Mhash/s with poclbm
if you remember what my setup was, it's a 5750 that's not overclocked (Juniper GPU)

Gratulations. You just dfound out the difference between CPU and GPU mining. The rest of us did that months ago ;)

The "orignial bitcoin client" is worthless for mining these days, the option will be removed (or has been removed in the most recent build).
notice he's mining 52khash/s with bitminter


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Soak on July 11, 2011, 07:42:07 AM
Gratulations. You just dfound out the difference between CPU and GPU mining. The rest of us did that months ago ;)

Do you think the original bitcoin client can mine with a GPU without OpenCL?

Model: SiS 661FX_760_741_M661FX_M760_M741 (visibly old integrated GPU in old mother card at my work).

The "orignial bitcoin client" is worthless for mining these days, the option will be removed (or has been removed in the most recent build).

You can mine with the original bitcoin client by enabling the "gen" parameter with "1" in the bitcoin.conf file.

Else, I mine in peak at 905 Mhashes/GPU with my two 6970 (900 Mhashes max with poclbm). Unfortunately, that's not constant. :(


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 11, 2011, 02:31:45 PM
Yeah, the CPU-mining code is really bad still. It hasn't been a priority, but I will implement OpenCL mining on CPU (with Intel or AMD drivers) soon.

If that's not fast enough, I'll do by-hand optimized assembly language with SSE instructions. An assembly language solution will probably be far down on the priority list though, as it will be a lot of work for probably little gain. I would need to make shared libraries for Windows, Linux and Mac, and invoke those from the Java Virtual Machine.

The miner seems to do better than the other miners on Radeon 69xx (VLIW-4 architecture), and GeForces.

I still need to optimize for VLIW-5 (Radeon 4000 and 5000 series and part of 6000-series).

Today I was able to find a refurbished Radeon 5970 at a decent price. I'll have it tomorrow and start working on speedups for the VLIW-5 cards. By the way, I thought 5970s were supposed to be impossible to get? ;) Lucky find, I guess...


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 11, 2011, 07:15:43 PM
Sorry you are not seeing satisfactory speed on your GPUs, guys. I am ordering a Radeon 5870 so I can make sure it runs well on your cards (VLIW5 architecture). I probably begin tweaking for that in a day or two.

Daveid: Glad to hear you like the miner. Today it only shows a 2-second average. I'll be implementing a longer-running average soon - it seems to be a common thing people want.

OCedHrt: I'll have total hash rate displayed very soon. Also better/more statistics are coming soon. But I'm not sure about real time stats, as it would aid pool hoppers. Of course I could switch to score-based payouts instead of proportional, but I'm not sure I like that system. I prefer everything to be as transparent and easy to understand as possible.

Right now you can see how many shares a worker ever produced in total, under "my account". I'm thinking of adding a reset-button and "shares since last reset" as well. That might be a good substitute for "shares submitted for current block" ?



That's a good point about pool hopping. Honestly I do some of my own hopping but have no qualms against operators who discourage it ;)

However, because it's proportional, there really needs to be stats on a per block basis - manually reset is a step closer but still annoying. The idea is to be able to see your actual shares / block to verify the reward.


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: teukon on July 11, 2011, 07:38:47 PM
I currently solo mine but would be interested in joining this.  Unfortunately I see that the payout method is proportional which is a deal breaker for me.  Any plans to implement something fairer (like score based shares or shares from last 5 minutes only)?


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 11, 2011, 09:58:03 PM
However, because it's proportional, there really needs to be stats on a per block basis - manually reset is a step closer but still annoying. The idea is to be able to see your actual shares / block to verify the reward.

I think I misunderstood what you meant. What you are talking about will of course be implemented. What I have in mind is that you would click on a block from the block list and come to another page showing how the earnings were split between users. It could show username, number of shares, and BTC paid. Once I get voluntary donations implemented it could show that as well. And also transaction fees and rounding errors. In short, a page to show where every little amount of the bitcoins we earned went.

This may seem like a breach of privacy to some users. But I think it is important for users to be able to see everything that is happening - how else can they trust the pool? What do you think?


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 11, 2011, 11:39:53 PM
I currently solo mine but would be interested in joining this.  Unfortunately I see that the payout method is proportional which is a deal breaker for me.  Any plans to implement something fairer (like score based shares or shares from last 5 minutes only)?

I assume it's a deal breaker because of pool hopping?

I don't have any specific plans, but I have been thinking about the different payout methods. I realize it will be tough to prevent pool hopping with proportional payouts. Delaying stats may work for DeepBit, but it would not work as well for a smaller pool (or stats would have to be delayed much longer).

I think paying for last N minutes is vulnerable to pool hopping too. The more shares were submitted the last N minutes, the less they are worth. And the higher the pool hash rate the better the chance of creating a block. If many shares were submitted and hash rate then dropped: time to pool hop. You don't want to work alone and then give all the money away. If few shares were submitted compared to the current hash rate: time to come back again. Someone else is likely to find a block and you want to get paid.

Maybe "pay per last N shares" is the most fair. If pool hash rate drops there is less chance someone else finds a block that you get paid for. But also you will take over more and more of the N shares at an increased rate, "pushing out" the shares of other users.

Interesting charts on different payout methods: http://eligius.st/~luke-jr/samples/800MH/

I'm open to suggestions.


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: OCedHrt on July 12, 2011, 05:07:31 AM
However, because it's proportional, there really needs to be stats on a per block basis - manually reset is a step closer but still annoying. The idea is to be able to see your actual shares / block to verify the reward.

I think I misunderstood what you meant. What you are talking about will of course be implemented. What I have in mind is that you would click on a block from the block list and come to another page showing how the earnings were split between users. It could show username, number of shares, and BTC paid. Once I get voluntary donations implemented it could show that as well. And also transaction fees and rounding errors. In short, a page to show where every little amount of the bitcoins we earned went.

This may seem like a breach of privacy to some users. But I think it is important for users to be able to see everything that is happening - how else can they trust the pool? What do you think?


Would be better if it's not like bitcoins.lc. I haven't found out how to see my earning history except search for my username on page 50 of the stats list. Having only 0.1% of the hashing power means the data is hard to find >:(


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: teukon on July 12, 2011, 07:50:29 AM
I currently solo mine but would be interested in joining this.  Unfortunately I see that the payout method is proportional which is a deal breaker for me.  Any plans to implement something fairer (like score based shares or shares from last 5 minutes only)?

I assume it's a deal breaker because of pool hopping?

I don't have any specific plans, but I have been thinking about the different payout methods. I realize it will be tough to prevent pool hopping with proportional payouts. Delaying stats may work for DeepBit, but it would not work as well for a smaller pool (or stats would have to be delayed much longer).

I think paying for last N minutes is vulnerable to pool hopping too. The more shares were submitted the last N minutes, the less they are worth. And the higher the pool hash rate the better the chance of creating a block. If many shares were submitted and hash rate then dropped: time to pool hop. You don't want to work alone and then give all the money away. If few shares were submitted compared to the current hash rate: time to come back again. Someone else is likely to find a block and you want to get paid.

Maybe "pay per last N shares" is the most fair. If pool hash rate drops there is less chance someone else finds a block that you get paid for. But also you will take over more and more of the N shares at an increased rate, "pushing out" the shares of other users.

Interesting charts on different payout methods: http://eligius.st/~luke-jr/samples/800MH/

I'm open to suggestions.


You're right, there does seem to be a different kind of hopping problem with PPLNminutes but at least it is very much to the pool's benefit (I guess pool hoppers would try to keep the mining volume constant).  I'm new to pool mining theory and PPLNS is a new discovery for me; it looks better than PPLNM but would be interested to know more about the weaknesses of these payout methods and why the more obviously faulty proportional is preferred.

Also, it strikes me that without any information about the pool at all it is still quite possible to pool hop using the block chain.  Simply mine with the pool for 5 minutes after each block discovery and mine solo the rest of the time.  You are only making money on the blocks which the pool itself finds but you're doing better than 100% nonetheless.  This would be particularly effective against a large pool and the only way I could see them blocking it is penalising you in some way for disconnecting from the pool, or detecting your behaviour and banning you.  Both methods defeat the only advantage to proportional that I see: it's simplicity.

Are there other advantages to proportional aside from simplicity (versus PPLNS)?  I feel there is something very wrong if this is the only advantage to proportional payouts.  Another payout method could be to pay an equal chunk to each user reguardless of their hash rate and this would have the advantage of being even more simple than proportional but very little else going for it.  Just as with proportional, people would take advantage, others would complain, and pool operators would be trying to block/ban people who took advantage and/or hide information to make their pool more attractive to 'honest' miners, all for some algorithmic simplicity.

Sorry, I went a bit far there.  Which pools do you know which do PPLNS?  To me this is more attractive than +5% to be honest.


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Soak on July 12, 2011, 08:38:31 AM
This may seem like a breach of privacy to some users. But I think it is important for users to be able to see everything that is happening - how else can they trust the pool? What do you think?

You want to make a transparency pool. This is not a breach of privacy because people want the transparency when they sign up to your pool. It's a sign of quality and a particularity of you pool like other have other things like no fee, a kind of paying, an API feature, etc. :D

I think all your ideas are good, the more the pool is transparency, the better is for all users and for promote your pool. I have essentially signed up for the very good GUI, dedicated miner and the performance (more than phatk tweaks and poclbm, need more stability on the other side..). But if you make full transparency for your pool, that will be awesome! ;D

(And please, I know there isn't a priority, but do anything for the poor CPU like at my work, and like a few people working with poor PC) :p


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 13, 2011, 10:19:43 PM
Another 50 bitcoins minted - good work, guys! :)

You want to make a transparency pool. This is not a breach of privacy because people want the transparency when they sign up to your pool. It's a sign of quality and a particularity of you pool like other have other things like no fee, a kind of paying, an API feature, etc. :D

I think all your ideas are good, the more the pool is transparency, the better is for all users and for promote your pool. I have essentially signed up for the very good GUI, dedicated miner and the performance (more than phatk tweaks and poclbm, need more stability on the other side..). But if you make full transparency for your pool, that will be awesome! ;D

Cool that you like it :) I agree with what you're saying, and I do think most people will want transparency.

(And please, I know there isn't a priority, but do anything for the poor CPU like at my work, and like a few people working with poor PC) :p

I will add OpenCL mining on CPU soon. :) Hopefully that will be quite fast. It will require installing AMD or Intel OpenCL drivers to run though.

Also, it strikes me that without any information about the pool at all it is still quite possible to pool hop using the block chain.  Simply mine with the pool for 5 minutes after each block discovery and mine solo the rest of the time.  You are only making money on the blocks which the pool itself finds but you're doing better than 100% nonetheless.  This would be particularly effective against a large pool and the only way I could see them blocking it is penalising you in some way for disconnecting from the pool, or detecting your behaviour and banning you.  Both methods defeat the only advantage to proportional that I see: it's simplicity.

Yes, very good explanation - shows why pool hopping will always be a problem with the proportional payout method.

Are there other advantages to proportional aside from simplicity (versus PPLNS)?

Yes, PPLNS doesn't necessarily pay for all shares submitted while working on a block. To some it would probably seem unfair not to get paid for all their work. If you think about it, it doesn't really matter as long as you mine 24/7. But if you mine a little now and then, PPLNS can become very random for you.

Also, proportional is easy for people to understand, and they can even keep score on their end and verify that the pool server isn't cheating them of shares. This isn't easy if the pool server calculates your payout with some complex formula based off of a large amount of numbers. I liked proportional because it is so transparent. But the problem with pool hoppers seems to be growing in the pools, and I see many pools run other payout methods now. I don't want users who come and go to "cheat" money away from the 24/7 miners in my pool.

Which pools do you know which do PPLNS?  To me this is more attractive than +5% to be honest.

It's a pretty new method still, but you can find at least one here in the forum, among the big stickied pools.

There is also a very interesting payout method called shared-maximum-pay-per-share. It seems more fair than PPLNS. But it sounds a little unconfortable to delay payments. And what will potential new users think about a pool that is behind on payments? There is some info on it here: http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Shared_Maximum_PPS

I think PPLNS and SMPPS look like the best two. Not sure which one I like better.

Would be better if it's not like bitcoins.lc. I haven't found out how to see my earning history except search for my username on page 50 of the stats list. Having only 0.1% of the hashing power means the data is hard to find >:(

There will also be a place to see complete earning history with transactions like in internet banking. The 5% bonus will show up as a separate transaction in your account. That and more is coming soon. :)


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: iopq on July 14, 2011, 12:41:30 AM
PPLNS is much better, it doesn't delay payouts when the pool has bad luck


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Sukrim on July 14, 2011, 01:05:36 AM
PPLNS will pay out miners sooner than SMPPS (which in the worst case might never pay some miners) but has a bit higher variance... I'd still go for it.

Do you have so few stats out of fear of hoppers or just because you didn't have time to code them? There is VERY little transparency right now, I don't even see how many shares have been currently submitted already, which difficulty they are (2 rounds below 250 000 shares are VERY lucky!) and other stuff...


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: grue on July 14, 2011, 01:44:30 AM
Quote
Fixed pay per Share: A fixed price paid for every share (proof of work) received. Will be made available if there is demand for it.
/me DEMANDS


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Sukrim on July 14, 2011, 02:01:03 AM
Quote
Fixed pay per Share: A fixed price paid for every share (proof of work) received. Will be made available if there is demand for it.
/me DEMANDS

Though fixed PPS is amongst the fairest options I know of, there is a risk of miners doing a undetectable "withholding winning shares" attack against the pool, potentially driving it bankrupt. There is a lot of risk involved and 0% (or near 0%) fees would be very difficult to do for the pool owner.


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 14, 2011, 05:45:59 AM
Quote
Fixed pay per Share: A fixed price paid for every share (proof of work) received. Will be made available if there is demand for it.
/me DEMANDS

Though fixed PPS is amongst the fairest options I know of, there is a risk of miners doing a undetectable "withholding winning shares" attack against the pool, potentially driving it bankrupt. There is a lot of risk involved and 0% (or near 0%) fees would be very difficult to do for the pool owner.

Yeah, it would probably have to be with high fees. And to reduce the risk of going bankrupt I'd better wait until the pool is bigger. From what I heard Swepool had to switch from PPS because they were losing too much money. Maybe I should take that off the webpage - but it is something I'll consider a little later.

Do you have so few stats out of fear of hoppers or just because you didn't have time to code them? There is VERY little transparency right now, I don't even see how many shares have been currently submitted already, which difficulty they are (2 rounds below 250 000 shares are VERY lucky!) and other stuff...

It's both. I will add more stats as soon as I can implement them. But I think it's best to switch to another payment method before showing how many proofs-of-work have been submitted in the current round. Showing that number would make pool hopping extremely efficient.


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: onis_uk on July 14, 2011, 03:49:20 PM
hi i cant log in ?! what am i doing wrong ?!

when the java pop window comes up and asks me to log in
i put in my details and nothing...wrong password or user name error

i'd love to use this pool but i cant even get started lol  :-[


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 14, 2011, 04:09:50 PM
hi i cant log in ?! what am i doing wrong ?!

when the java pop window comes up and asks me to log in
i put in my details and nothing...wrong password or user name error

i'd love to use this pool but i cant even get started lol  :-[

D'oh! Accepting underscores in the username was a bad idea when underscore is used as a separator between username and computername. Your workers can't log in now.

PM me what you'd like your username to be and I'll change it.


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: ssateneth on July 15, 2011, 07:57:54 PM
Phoenix with phatk mod on 5870 985/350: ~450mhash
bitminter, peak 405mhash.

I think I'll stay with phoenix phatk mod. Sorry.


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 15, 2011, 09:05:28 PM
I will work on improving performance on 4000 and 5000 series Radeons this weekend. Hopefully that will turn this around. ;)


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 16, 2011, 01:32:30 AM
Website update:
  • Pool speed/workers shown, top of page
  • My Account->Transaction history - shows all bitcoins in and out of your account
  • Block info: for more info on a block, click a block in the statistics/block list, or in your transaction history


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Soak on July 16, 2011, 01:31:16 PM
If people are interrested, auto-refreshed signatures for members with +50 posts.

http://goo.gl/wA2Wd (http://bitminter.com/)

Code:
[url=http://bitminter.com/][img]http://goo.gl/wA2Wd[/img][/url]

http://goo.gl/fR7c4 (http://bitminter.com/)

Code:
[url=http://bitminter.com/][img]http://goo.gl/fR7c4[/img][/url]


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 16, 2011, 03:40:32 PM
Nice work, Soak - a bitcoin on the way to you :)


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Moussekateer on July 17, 2011, 01:43:19 PM
How do we view the number of stales without using your mining client?


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 17, 2011, 02:11:57 PM
Doesn't your miner show the number of stales? I used DiabloMiner and Phoenix before, and they display the stales.

Edit: I think they call those shares "rejected" though. And the protocol doesn't really have a way to distinguish between shares that are completely invalid and those that are just stale. With my pool server you will only get rejected shares when they are stale. If there is something else wrong with them an error is returned, which should be displayed by the miner. So you can consider the rejected shares shown in your miner to be stales.


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 17, 2011, 11:58:06 PM
The bitminter miner was updated. Restart it to get the latest version.

6970/6990: Tiny bit faster
Other AMD: much faster, but probably not the fastest yet. I will keep working on it. It should be more comparable to other miners now. Feedback welcome.
It should also be less sluggish (bugfix in work timing)
Longer long-poll timeout - no more timeout messages


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: iopq on July 18, 2011, 06:36:45 PM
yeah, it's a little faster on my 5750 GPU, definitely not the fastest, though, between 130 and 135
poclbm gives 150 since I'm overclocking

manual vectors still don't work


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 18, 2011, 08:09:40 PM
yeah, it's a little faster on my 5750 GPU, definitely not the fastest, though, between 130 and 135
poclbm gives 150 since I'm overclocking

manual vectors still don't work

Hmm, it works fine on my 5970, and it now runs faster than Phoenix with phatk - almost as fast as DiabloMiner.

I guess the problem with manual vectors must have to do with the catalyst/sdk version. Which one are you using? I was using catalyst 11.6 with the included opencl, but recently switched to 11.7 preview. Maybe I'm doing something that doesn't work on older versions.


Title: Re: BitMinter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: DrHaribo on July 19, 2011, 11:46:01 PM
yeah, it's a little faster on my 5750 GPU, definitely not the fastest, though, between 130 and 135
poclbm gives 150 since I'm overclocking

manual vectors still don't work

It was incompatible with SDK 2.1. New fixed version is live now. Would love to hear how it compares to poclbm with vectors working.

By the way, it's true what they say about 2.1 and speed. I get 2 mhps more with 2.1 than with the 11.7 preview drivers.


Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 21, 2011, 03:25:08 PM
Had a pool backend instability for a while today. But the bug is fixed now. Stales were slightly higher for a while - should be back to normal again.


Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 21, 2011, 03:39:06 PM
Are the patches for 5xxx cards in?


Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 21, 2011, 05:01:34 PM
Yes, there are new patches for 4xxx and 5xxx series Radeon in.

On my 5970, with Catalyst 11.7 preview drivers, the BitMinter miner still runs a little slower than DiabloMiner, so I need to work on it some more.

But it would be helpful to hear how the new version compares to people's favorite miners.


Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 21, 2011, 05:58:33 PM
Yes, there are new patches for 4xxx and 5xxx series Radeon in.

On my 5970, with Catalyst 11.7 preview drivers, the BitMinter miner still runs a little slower than DiabloMiner, so I need to work on it some more.

But it would be helpful to hear how the new version compares to people's favorite miners.


Hats off to you DrHaribo. on mine, it's on par with guiminer/poclbm on equivalent settings 100ms/f10 w256 at 422~424MH/s
And importantly you fixed the issue with the lagging responsiveness :)

Two minor issues though
1. Performance mode doesn't display submitted shares. Is there a reason why you felt it was more important to show work units than the current progress like most other GUI miners?

2. Text log doesn't scroll with more entries, at least not on my Win 7 64bit, the just gets longer and longer until I can't access the perf mode button :D
Edit: Now it does, maybe I was just seeing things :o

One slightly more major issue, I get this error on the first restart attempt each time I stopped my GPU.
Device [Cypress (#1)] unable to start: Failed to map output buffer(code -12 = CL_SUCCESS) on Cypress (#1)

i.e. stop the GPU, do something like tweak settings OR do nothing, click start = error. Then do something OR do nothing, click start = OK


Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 21, 2011, 06:36:08 PM
1. Performance mode doesn't display submitted shares. Is there a reason why you felt it was more important to show work units than the current progress like most other GUI miners?

ToriAmos1963 already requested submitted shares in performance mode. I will have it in there soon!

The reason it is this way is because the miner started out without performance mode. I put info specific to a device in that device's own area. And data not specific to a device I put down there. Then I noticed that the speed gauges, at least if you have multiple GPUs, actually slow things down a bit. Also the window got quite big. So I put in performance mode, but didn't think to change the way info is displayed.

2. Text log doesn't scroll with more entries, at least not on my Win 7 64bit, the just gets longer and longer until I can't access the perf mode button :D
Edit: Now it does, maybe I was just seeing things :o

Hehe. Let me know if it happens again. :) Only problem I am aware of with the log is on Linux if you go to perf mode and back to detailed mode the log gets really big. Will fix when I have time.

One slightly more major issue, I get this error on the first restart attempt each time I stopped my GPU.
Device [Cypress (#1)] unable to start: Failed to map output buffer(code -12 = CL_SUCCESS) on Cypress (#1)

Are you running Catalyst 11.7 preview? I noticed this happening after I installed 11.7, but haven't found the cause yet. Working on it.

If a device fails to start, just hit the start button again. Usually starts on second or third try. Sorry, I don't mean to make your GPU look like an old tired car  ;D Will fix!

Glad to hear you get good performance :)


Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 21, 2011, 06:44:06 PM
ToriAmos1963 already requested submitted shares in performance mode. I will have it in there soon!

Nice :)

Another small thing, the miner doesn't remember the child window sizes after returning from perf mode. E.g. I have 2 GPU and only use one for Bitminter, so I closed the other GPU display, shorten the upper window so I get more log display area. Go perf mode, return and it's back to the auto-calc sizes.

Quote
Are you running Catalyst 11.7 preview? I noticed this happening after I installed 11.7, but haven't found the cause yet. Working on it.

If a device fails to start, just hit the start button again. Usually starts on second or third try. Sorry, I don't mean to make your GPU look like an old tired car  ;D Will fix!

LOL :D

This is on 11.6B though, might be the same thing in 11.7 as well. Certainly both of them have the full load CPU bug in the other miner.



Title: Re: [~5 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 21, 2011, 07:13:09 PM
Another small thing, the miner doesn't remember the child window sizes after returning from perf mode. E.g. I have 2 GPU and only use one for Bitminter, so I closed the other GPU display, shorten the upper window so I get more log display area. Go perf mode, return and it's back to the auto-calc sizes.

Yes, that's annoying. I put it on my list - thanks :)

Quote
This is on 11.6B though, might be the same thing in 11.7 as well. Certainly both of them have the full load CPU bug in the other miner.

Didn't know it could happen with 11.6. I'll see what I can do about it.


Title: Re: bitminter.com relaunch *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS *** (details inside)
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on July 21, 2011, 07:36:33 PM
Great concept in theory, but I cannot for the life of me get it to come even close the my Phoenix 1.50 + modified Phatk kernel results.


I got way past 450mhash/s per 6990 core on 3% mod POCLBM with arguments -v -w128 (for a total of 900+mhash/s) by setting a clock frequency of 950-960mhz and upping the voltage.

Temperatures go through the roof though & so does power usage, so it's not worth it by a long shot.
6990 is already the hottest card out there, I don't want to risk failure by running at constant 95c-100c+.


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 22, 2011, 11:15:15 AM
Yesterday we grew about 40% in computing power compared to the day before.
Today it looks like we grow more than 100% compared to yesterday.

What's going on? Are you guys overclocking? :P


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: iopq on July 25, 2011, 03:42:04 AM
Yesterday we grew about 40% in computing power compared to the day before.
Today it looks like we grow more than 100% compared to yesterday.

What's going on? Are you guys overclocking? :P
we got a third block, people switching and hoping for a short fourth


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Moussekateer on July 25, 2011, 04:51:51 AM
Yesterday we grew about 40% in computing power compared to the day before.
Today it looks like we grow more than 100% compared to yesterday.

What's going on? Are you guys overclocking? :P
we got a third block, people switching and hoping for a short fourth

This was a few days before we got the third block. It went up to ~40GH/s at one point. It was quite late in the round so it probably isn't pool hoppers, so not sure what happened there.


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: iopq on July 25, 2011, 09:39:51 AM
Yesterday we grew about 40% in computing power compared to the day before.
Today it looks like we grow more than 100% compared to yesterday.

What's going on? Are you guys overclocking? :P
we got a third block, people switching and hoping for a short fourth

This was a few days before we got the third block. It went up to ~40GH/s at one point. It was quite late in the round so it probably isn't pool hoppers, so not sure what happened there.
then it's the people who just finished mining namecoins and looking for a good pool?


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 25, 2011, 03:58:43 PM
Congratulations on the third block, everyone.

After the block was confirmed this morning, 79 members were credited for their work and also 5% bonuses added to their accounts. Shortly after that payments went out to 14 members whose accounts were now over their chosen minimum payout threshold.

Quick bugfix update on the BitMinter mining application today:
- Fixes errors that occurred when stopping and restarting a device
- Fixes "compilation error" on Mac OS X

Edit: To get the new version, just restart the miner.


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtSpike on July 25, 2011, 04:23:02 PM
Question:  What can I adjust to make mouse movement less jerky on a machine that I regularly use?  I tried setting the break interval to 1000 ms, but it didn't help.  Anything else I can try?


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 25, 2011, 04:27:54 PM
Question:  What can I adjust to make mouse movement less jerky on a machine that I regularly use?  I tried setting the break interval to 1000 ms, but it didn't help.  Anything else I can try?

You need to lower the break interval, not increase it :D


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 25, 2011, 04:29:21 PM
Yes, try 10 ms intervals - should be smooth.


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtSpike on July 25, 2011, 04:46:16 PM
Yes, try 10 ms intervals - should be smooth.

Smooth enough - thanks for helping the noob.  :P

Speeds are impressive!  Just trying this out on my 5770, and I'm getting around 185MH/s instead of 168MH/s with guiminer.


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 25, 2011, 05:26:23 PM
Speeds are impressive!  Just trying this out on my 5770, and I'm getting around 185MH/s instead of 168MH/s with guiminer.

Always glad to hear reports of good performance. :)

To be honest, on a 5770 you can maybe get 1 MH/s higher with DiabloMiner or modified-Phoenix with modified-phatk kernel. I will be closing that gap later, to make this the fastest miner on any GPU. But for now, it's close enough to the best, while I work on some other things. ;)


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtSpike on July 25, 2011, 05:50:17 PM
Speeds are impressive!  Just trying this out on my 5770, and I'm getting around 185MH/s instead of 168MH/s with guiminer.

Always glad to hear reports of good performance. :)

To be honest, on a 5770 you can maybe get 1 MH/s higher with DiabloMiner or modified-Phoenix with modified-phatk kernel. I will be closing that gap later, to make this the fastest miner on any GPU. But for now, it's close enough to the best, while I work on some other things. ;)

I never could get phoenix working real well.  There were always weird quirks about it that I didn't like.  I'm just happy to have a miner that is much faster than guiminer without any weird quirks.

Will probably move my 2 GH/s over to this miner/your pool and see how things go.


Title: Re: [~10 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 26, 2011, 11:23:34 AM
Update to website:
Member area "account details" now shows number of proofs of work for each worker for the current round, in addition to the total. Also, everything is summed up in the bottom row.

I also added a tooltip explanation for Mhps - just put the mouse pointer over the "Mhps" text in the column header to see it. Fluctuations in your hash rate should be less confusing when you know it's just an estimate. ;)

Will probably move my 2 GH/s over to this miner/your pool and see how things go.

That's great! We need to increase the hashrate to make payouts more frequent. :)


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 26, 2011, 06:27:18 PM
bah one cant even register to this pool  :o ;D ;D

What are you having issues with? The OpenID login, or the sign-up form?


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 26, 2011, 06:43:53 PM
bah one cant even register to this pool  :o ;D ;D

What are you having issues with? The OpenID login, or the sign-up form?


OpenID can be pain. Is there a reason why you don't want a site specific login? After all, one of the reasons bitcoin is attractive to us is anonymity but then you want us to use a service that basically is a tracer.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 26, 2011, 07:07:05 PM
OpenID can be pain. Is there a reason why you don't want a site specific login? After all, one of the reasons bitcoin is attractive to us is anonymity but then you want us to use a service that basically is a tracer.

The reason I chose OpenID was for the convenience it gives users. A lot of people already have a Google or Yahoo account, and they don't want even more passwords to remember.

If you want anonymity you could create a new account anywhere that offers OpenID accounts, instead of using the same Google account you use everywhere else. But if enough users want it, maybe I'll add regular username+password login too. My TODO list is getting rather long, though. ;)

What I already have planned for logins is:
1. Being able to associate multiple OpenID identities with your BitMinter account. So if you lose one OpenID you can still log in with another one, provided you registered it with BitMinter first.
2. Logging in with a Facebook account


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 26, 2011, 07:19:36 PM
The reason I chose OpenID was for the convenience it gives users. A lot of people already have a Google or Yahoo account, and they don't want even more passwords to remember.

I agree that OpenId is good for that, which is why it came about anyway. Just that keeping in mind one of the key attributes of bitcoin, makes that sort of a irrelevant consideration if you know what I mean. It's a little like providing condoms dispensers in the toilet for convenience... except the toilet's in a monastery. :D

Quote
If you want anonymity you could create a new account anywhere that offers OpenID accounts, instead of using the same Google account you use everywhere else.

Of course that's what I do... this nick and associated email is basically only used for my non-serious for fun geeky activities, and shared with a few friends just to obfuscate the trail further.


Quote
But if enough users want it, maybe I'll add regular username+password login too. My TODO list is getting rather long, though. ;)

What I already have planned for logins is:
1. Being able to associate multiple OpenID identities with your BitMinter account. So if you lose one OpenID you can still log in with another one, provided you registered it with BitMinter first.
2. Logging in with a Facebook account

I like what you've done with the miner Doc, but a (Disregard-My-Privacy)-Facebook-Connect button is one of those things that make me want to click close on a site :D

Why not do it the way eligius does it? No login, just use the receiving address. Nothing for anybody to steal unless they want to send BTC to some stranger :D

And you don't even need to worry about user logins, password security and whatever not.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 26, 2011, 10:01:01 PM
Yeah, I hear what you are saying, guys, and I see how the way Eligius does things makes it very anonymous.

I could perhaps make a separate type of "anonymous account". I think I'll have to take a look at how this works on Eligius. I mean, you can't log in and change the payout threshold if there is no login. ;) I guess it would have to be a special type of account with a different feature-set.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 27, 2011, 12:59:56 PM
Yeah, I hear what you are saying, guys, and I see how the way Eligius does things makes it very anonymous.

I could perhaps make a separate type of "anonymous account". I think I'll have to take a look at how this works on Eligius. I mean, you can't log in and change the payout threshold if there is no login. ;) I guess it would have to be a special type of account with a different feature-set.


That's pretty much an expected and acceptable give and take. If I don't use a login, I don't get access to more fancy features and live with defaults like eligius' threshold of about 1/3 BTC. No problems unless your defaults are so unreasonable that it's obvious you're just trying to force us to give up our privacy ;)



Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on July 27, 2011, 09:04:38 PM
I added some new stats to make mining less boring.  :D Click "live stats" at the top of a BitMinter webpage. You can choose between pool speed, your own speed or speed of the top 10 fastest miners. Updates every 5 minutes.

I know the Mhps measurements fluctuate a lot. I'll have a look at making it measure for longer periods than 5 minutes later.

Maybe I'll make it update more frequently than every 5 minutes in the future. Will see how things go with server load.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: farfiman on July 28, 2011, 06:15:55 PM
Am I missing something or do i see that there is know way to see what the pool is working on.. how many shares etc...?



Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: iopq on July 29, 2011, 03:25:22 PM
Yeah, I hear what you are saying, guys, and I see how the way Eligius does things makes it very anonymous.

I could perhaps make a separate type of "anonymous account". I think I'll have to take a look at how this works on Eligius. I mean, you can't log in and change the payout threshold if there is no login. ;) I guess it would have to be a special type of account with a different feature-set.

doesn't matter, eligius just does generated transactions to pay members of the pool, so the payouts can be small and no fees are paid on them
so when you stop mining for a certain time (say a week) you can pay out in full, even if there's like 0.01 in that person's account


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Soak on July 30, 2011, 07:13:31 PM
Why not do it the way eligius does it? No login, just use the receiving address.

I think it's not good because DrHaribo wants to create a dedicated forum for the pool. So, the idea is to link account of the website with forums (and the usernames). What will happen if a member use your username on the forums, especially with the future donation system (whick give you a special rank on the forum for example)?

In this case, we need to destroy the actually system accounts, and how members can have special benefits for donators? It's not possible, except if DrHaribo implement double account system (regular and anonymous). I think that will make confusions and it's a lot of work, for almost nothing. And that means for example in the top 10 miners: 1- Username 2- Bitcoin Address 3- Username 4- Username 5- Bitcoin Address etc. You find that good? :(

In other words, the goal of BitMinter is to make a community around the pool, with the future forums, and the current IRC channel. I think anonymous isn't a good idea.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on July 31, 2011, 03:43:12 AM
Why not do it the way eligius does it? No login, just use the receiving address.

I think it's not good because DrHaribo wants to create a dedicated forum for the pool. So, the idea is to link account of the website with forums (and the usernames). What will happen if a member use your username on the forums, especially with the future donation system (whick give you a special rank on the forum for example)?

In this case, we need to destroy the actually system accounts, and how members can have special benefits for donators? It's not possible, except if DrHaribo implement double account system (regular and anonymous). I think that will make confusions and it's a lot of work, for almost nothing. And that means for example in the top 10 miners: 1- Username 2- Bitcoin Address 3- Username 4- Username 5- Bitcoin Address etc. You find that good? :(

In other words, the goal of BitMinter is to make a community around the pool, with the future forums, and the current IRC channel. I think anonymous isn't a good idea.

Doesn't need a second system.

You could just link the forum account to wallet addresses for those who opt to be named. Those of us who value our anonymity and privacy are used to having lesser privileges and I doubt those of us who value anonymity cares if somebody else use our username on a forum. I personally make one up for each subgroup of activities.

For ranking, a good example would be Slush, there's an option to display or not display username in stats. So in our case, the ranking can simply be "Top Miner: <wallet address blah blah blah> / Soak".

If really desired, each address can also have a corresponding receiving address so DrHaribo knows which address's owner is the donor. Then for certain benefits, like being able to get paid out before threshold/confirmation could still be implemented.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 01, 2011, 07:11:48 AM
Am I missing something or do i see that there is know way to see what the pool is working on.. how many shares etc...?

True, this is not shown at the moment. I intend to add statistics with such information when a new reward system is in place, one that is unaffected by pool hopping. Most likely PPLNS or a variation of that system. This will open up the possibility of many cool new statistics.

Can you add emails for miners that go down?

Yes, that's on the TODO list. :)

Adopted your sig DrH.  Let me know if you want me to take it down.

Soak made it for anyone to use. I'm quite happy to see more people use it. :) He also made a different one that some may like better, but I think this one is cool. ;)

I understand you're trying to promote your own pool with the application, but I think you should add the ability to use different pools on your Bitminter application to gain even more of an audience (in turn getting you more miners on your pool).

I already prefer this beta app over GUIminer, the interface and ease-of-use are awesome.

Thanks :)

Yes, the miner might get more users if it worked with any pool. But I don't think it would work as well for supporting the BitMinter pool as it does today. I will consider adding support for other pools, though. At least as backup pools.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on August 01, 2011, 12:04:59 PM
Yes, the miner might get more users if it worked with any pool. But I don't think it would work as well for supporting the BitMinter pool as it does today. I will consider adding support for other pools, though. At least as backup pools.

Since you put in the work to tweak the client, I think it's fair if you wish to keep it exclusive to BitMinter in order to promote the pool. In which case, I don't think you should support backup pools... simply because offhand, I think I probably can use that function to use your client to mine at any other pool, not as a backup ;)


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 03, 2011, 03:15:31 PM
Since you put in the work to tweak the client, I think it's fair if you wish to keep it exclusive to BitMinter in order to promote the pool. In which case, I don't think you should support backup pools... simply because offhand, I think I probably can use that function to use your client to mine at any other pool, not as a backup ;)

Hehe, yes, it could be used that way. But at the same time, backup pools is a nice feature to have. So far the server has been stable, but you never know.. Well, I have some other things to implement first anyway, so there is time to think about how this could be done.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: marks1976 on August 04, 2011, 04:45:33 AM
I love the software.  Really nice look to it.  Simple to use.  It makes showing my computer challenged friends easy to show how to mine.  I just set my friend up remotely from my house it was so simple.  If he can do it I think there is hope for bitcoin to make it mainstream. I will be jumping in soon I have to stay in mineco so I don't lose my shares until the block finishes.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 04, 2011, 10:16:51 AM
Issues with server. Working on it.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 04, 2011, 11:12:24 AM
Server is back up and everything seems to be running smoothly again.

Looks like it went down at 08:15 UTC and I got things running properly again at 10:15 UTC.

I'm very sorry it was down as long as 2 hours. I'm still in Las Vegas. I took a taxi to my hotel and tried to get things running again as fast as possible. Of course hotel wi-fi started to fail in the middle of things and I had to switch to internet over a cellphone.

Thanks to Soak for sending me a message that the pool was down. :)

The pool went down because the load had suddenly increased something awful. Not sure what did that. But after starting things back up, there was no problem. Will look into this later. It's 4 in the night here, so I must get some sleep.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 04, 2011, 11:14:49 AM
I love the software.  Really nice look to it.  Simple to use.  It makes showing my computer challenged friends easy to show how to mine.  I just set my friend up remotely from my house it was so simple.  If he can do it I think there is hope for bitcoin to make it mainstream. I will be jumping in soon I have to stay in mineco so I don't lose my shares until the block finishes.

Cool - this is exactly what I wanted to achieve with BitMinter. :)


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: catfish on August 04, 2011, 11:54:27 AM
I'm in the process of chucking my custom rigs as I build them (one by one!) onto BitMinter - just because it's got a cool name, and I like to collect physical coins so 'minting' is more associated with my hobby than 'mining' (though one must mine the silver and gold to mint a coin... ahem).

Already in the top ten! Should have a couple of GH/s for you all when I've finished - got three custom frame rigs to build :)

...catfish

ETA - sorry, just liked the name, I'm not even using the software because I've already built a Linux install based on phoenix - it installs on all my machines, regardless of number of GPUs, and builds a central webpage table that shows salient details of each machine, GPU miner instance, temp, speed, etc. for monitoring. My Apple Macs serve the webpage. It was just an excuse to mess about with Ruby again :)


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 04, 2011, 04:49:00 PM
Already in the top ten! Should have a couple of GH/s for you all when I've finished - got three custom frame rigs to build :)

Nice! :) Feel free to post pics of the rigs if you want. My machines run pretty hot - I guess custom frames is what is needed.

ETA - sorry, just liked the name, I'm not even using the software because I've already built a Linux install based on phoenix - it installs on all my machines, regardless of number of GPUs, and builds a central webpage table that shows salient details of each machine, GPU miner instance, temp, speed, etc. for monitoring. My Apple Macs serve the webpage. It was just an excuse to mess about with Ruby again :)

Nice setup! Don't worry about not using the BitMinter client - it is of course purely optional.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 06, 2011, 04:17:40 AM
Yes, it's our first unlucky block. I hope we finish it soon.

Many pools struggling with long blocks lately, and some pools seem to get abandoned. I appreciate you guys sticking it out.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: joulesbeef on August 06, 2011, 04:56:20 AM
couldnt sign up with chrome.. none of the open ids would work for me but aol and when it switched me to aol it put my username as joulesbeefhttp://aol ....w/e

ok so switched to IE.. got signed up.. when it asked for a wallet.. i copied and pasted one of my wallet addies that I have used many times before. it said all wallet addies must be 34 numbers, mine was 33.. and I have more than one that is 33.. so i picked one that had 34.

it was quite an adventure just to sign up.

and do you have json? or block stats :)


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 07, 2011, 08:13:19 PM
And here I was thinking I can soon take off the "beta" stamp. :P

couldnt sign up with chrome.. none of the open ids would work for me but aol and when it switched me to aol it put my username as joulesbeefhttp://aol ....w/e

The website appears to work fine with chrome. I'll do some testing with chrome and the sign up though.

The AOL thing is a problem with logging in?

Could you tell me (PM if you want) which OpenID providers that wouldn't work? That way I can track down bugs.

ok so switched to IE.. got signed up.. when it asked for a wallet.. i copied and pasted one of my wallet addies that I have used many times before. it said all wallet addies must be 34 numbers, mine was 33.. and I have more than one that is 33.. so i picked one that had 34.

Oops! Thanks for catching this one. I have changed the validity check for bitcoin addresses. Just a (now correct) length check. Next I should let bitcoind validate addresses instead. Anyway, you should be able to set any valid bitcoin address now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

and do you have json? or block stats :)

There is some JSON data available:
http://bitminter.com/api/pool/stats
http://bitminter.com/api/pool/topten

Unfortunately no stats on current round yet. I would like to implement a new reward system before making those data available.


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: ManOfKnight on August 08, 2011, 09:27:05 PM
Man, hopefully we finish a block soon...the waiting is killing me.

Love the miner...actually have three people from work FINALLY getting into mining, as even at $7-8 it is still profitable for the casual miner.

The two I know of that are going to sign up have a 5870 and the other has a 4870.  That should add roughly another 540Mh/s to the pool.  If I can get the other two 5870's at work to join that would add another 900 Mh/s to the pool.


Title: Re: [~15 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: notme on August 09, 2011, 08:51:48 PM
Yes, it's our first unlucky block. I hope we finish it soon.

Many pools struggling with long blocks lately, and some pools seem to get abandoned. I appreciate you guys sticking it out.


Hit it with a stick :-p.


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 10, 2011, 02:01:48 PM
Finally! Our first unlucky block is behind us. The solution to finally mint these coins came from Colby, who is now the pool's new hero. ;)

Love the miner...actually have three people from work FINALLY getting into mining, as even at $7-8 it is still profitable for the casual miner.

The two I know of that are going to sign up have a 5870 and the other has a 4870.  That should add roughly another 540Mh/s to the pool.  If I can get the other two 5870's at work to join that would add another 900 Mh/s to the pool.

Great! Sounds like my efforts to make the miner user-friendly are paying off. :)


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: ManOfKnight on August 10, 2011, 08:05:26 PM
Hopefully we continue to solve blocks.  One of my buddies was upset with the payout due to the unlucky block, I tried to explain how it works on smaller pools.  He is still thinking about going back to BTCGuild...I am hoping he stays.


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 11, 2011, 07:29:16 AM
Problems at the data center where the server is hosted makes the server unreachable from the internet. Sorry for this. I hope they get things straightened out quickly.


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 11, 2011, 11:05:03 AM
Engineers at the datacenter finally fixed their networking after approx. 5 hours downtime. I will think about different hosting options. Sorry for the downtime!


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 12, 2011, 11:17:26 PM
Getting back online now.  Should have all workers back by tonight (most are remote and I need to do a hard reset).

Good stuff :)

Pool hashrate looking very nice now.

Glad we solved that evil block!  :)

Yes, me too. Such unlucky blocks are hard for a small pool.

Might want to reverse the sort order of the transaction history page (https://bitminter.com/members/transactions), or it will become rather tedious to check fresh transactions after you have solved many blocks.

I wanted to make it look a bit like internet banks. Don't they usually show the newest transaction at the bottom? Maybe I should make it possible to switch sorting order.

Anyway, I plan to add pagination before we solve too many blocks, so you can jump from page to page like with a google search. Need to do the same thing with the block list.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Xephan on August 13, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
Newbie might need some attention here :D
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36604.0


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 14, 2011, 02:29:53 PM
Thanks, Xephan, I replied in that other thread.

Just updated the website with a few changes:
  • Fixed a bug where some workers would not show in the worker list if they had no shares in the current round. Thanks to Soak for reporting the bug.
  • Block list now shows the average hashing speed for each block found.
  • New LCD-display of the pool speed on top of each page (shows as normal text in old browsers)
  • A "contact" page to send me an email, to make it easier to get help in case of problems


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Juggernaut118 on August 15, 2011, 03:11:56 AM
I just started using this miner. I like the miner. It's easier to use and It's giving me an extra 6 Mhps. Is there a way to save my setup so my settings are saved?


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 15, 2011, 01:53:31 PM
I just started using this miner. I like the miner. It's easier to use and It's giving me an extra 6 Mhps. Is there a way to save my setup so my settings are saved?

Cool that you like it, and welcome on the team.

The only thing saved right now is name+password (if you check the little box in the login window). But it is certainly on my TODO list to save the settings! I hope to get that done soon, there's just a lot of things to do.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Juggernaut118 on August 15, 2011, 03:27:23 PM
What does proofs of work accepted and proofs of work rejected mean? I just had 512 accepted and 248 rejected. Is that normal? Also I mined over night and my unconfirmed balance is still 0. Does it not change until a block is solved? I'm still pretty new to this stuff.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 15, 2011, 03:39:32 PM
What does proofs of work accepted and proofs of work rejected mean? I just had 512 accepted and 248 rejected. Is that normal? Also I mined over night and my unconfirmed balance is still 0. Does it not change until a block is solved? I'm still pretty new to this stuff.

The unconfirmed balance will be 0 until we solve a block, that's right. Because the pool is small that can take a few days, but I hope we get one soon now. I will soon add something to show how much you are likely to get when the block is solved.

Every proof of work that is accepted gives you 1 share out of the money that is split when a block is solved. Often the word "share" is used to mean basically the same thing when it comes to pool mining.

You should not have so many rejected. That is very strange. At the moment I have 90571 accepted and 138 rejected. The numbers should be more like that - rejected should be very few.

I wonder what could be causing so many rejected proofs of work. Anyone else seeing something similar? I've never seen high rejected numbers ("stales") when using the BitMinter miner.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 15, 2011, 06:35:48 PM
As you may have noticed there are more pool hoppers these days, and tools for pool hopping. Therefore moving away from proportional payouts seems prudent. Of course we won't switch in the middle of a block, and the new system will take a bit of time to implement, but it's probably a good idea to switch soon.

Of all the payout systems people have thought of so far I believe PPLNS is the best. It's a good combination of fair payouts and not letting the pool become bankrupt or end up in some other situation where miners leave.

Basically PPLNS (pay-per-last-N-shares) works like this:

  payout = blockvalue * your shares among the last N shares / N

The people over at Eligius have a write-up on PPLNS with more details here: http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Pay_Per_Last_N_Shares (http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Pay_Per_Last_N_Shares)

As for the question of how to determine N, I think N = 2 * difficulty might make most sense. In that case many shares will get paid twice. If choosing N = difficulty / 2 then many shares aren't paid at all. I think people will be more comfortable with most shares being paid 2 times, instead of 0-1 times.

One issue I have with PPLNS is the idea of storing million after million of individual shares in the database. This could become a bottleneck as the pool grows larger. It could also limit running statistics, and I would like to have a lot of statistics.

An idea I have to limit the load on the server is to group shares into "shifts" and pay per shifts. Just like some people work night and day shifts. Every time we have, say, a number of shares equal to 20% of the difficulty, that is stored away as a shift, and we begin on a new one. Whenever a block is found, the last 10 shifts are paid. This way the server only handles a handful of numbers instead of millions to display statistics.

It would be possible to pay the last 10 complete shifts, or the last 10 shifts + the current (incomplete) shift. Paying the current shift would make share payments vary in value with how complete the current shift is. This might make the system slightly hoppable. Not paying the current shift might feel unfair to some, though, especially as you might solve a block and not even get paid 1 share, if you don't have any shares in existing shifts.

Any thoughts?

It would also be possible to pay for last N hours, for instance last 12 hours. But I think this is a bad idea at least while the pool is small. If it takes a week to find a block, paying only the last 12 hours means a lot of shares aren't paid. And if we pay all shares from the last 7 days, then it gets out of hand when the pool gets larger.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: ManOfKnight on August 16, 2011, 12:01:05 PM
You could eliminate the pool hoppers by requiring miners to use your front end.  (That's why I joined in the first place...)

I don't think you should try do things the way other pools do.  Clearly it's not working for them.

Why overcomplicate things?

 8)

The only problem with requiring the current front end is that the 5800 series is still not 100% optimized.  While I use the front end for my 6970 series card, as it is the fastest available...one of my buddies uses it for his 5870 and is almost 90mh/s slower than me.  The 5870 should be as fast or faster than my card using any miner.  I know this is being worked on, but until it is resolved, it would be cruel to force individuals to use the front end if using a 5000 series card.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 16, 2011, 10:17:49 PM
I think not allowing other mining software would mean losing members.

Also, I think it's best not to let people know in advance whether a proof of work they submit will get a high or low payment, unless using PPS (Pay Per Share). From what I understand, what happened to Swepool was that they got a very very unlucky block, and almost everyone left the pool.

I think it works well if this is the situation at all times: If you do some work and submit a proof of work, you are very likely to get paid an average value for it, and there's some chance to get paid a lot or nothing at all. You can't know in advance how much value the proof of work will bring.

This way it always makes sense to keep mining, and things are perfectly fair for 24/7 miners. I think things are fair for casual miners too, although they may be unlucky and mine for 30 minutes without getting any pay (very unlucky).


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on August 17, 2011, 01:16:49 AM
one of my buddies uses it for his 5870 and is almost 90mh/s slower than me. 

Seconding the post above, I have 5870's and 5830's and there was a very slight decrease from phoenix and tweaked phatk vs the java front end.. less than 5mh/sec difference on any given card. Something's wrong with your friends gear.
Plus, at the same oc the java miner is much more stable in my experience, so I'm a fan of it even though it's not optimized for 5800 series cards.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 19, 2011, 12:43:32 AM
Some updates to the miner today. Details are in the separate miner thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.0)

DrH please optimize for the 5800 when you can!

I have some good ideas for this. Hopefully if things work out this will be in the next update.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 19, 2011, 04:37:32 PM
Pool backend was just restarted with a small bug fix. It would sometimes send out work that the new miner version did not like, which would result in miscalculations ("bombs" in the GUI). This is now fixed. Sorry if this caused you to think you had a hardware problem.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: iopq on August 20, 2011, 01:40:42 PM
note that it might take 10 days to get paid at 2x difficulty PPLNS because you can still get a payment for a block that is 3.6M shares later which in this pool is a while
mineco.in uses 1/2 difficulty for this reason
eligius can use 8*difficulty because they can blow through 10M shares fairly quickly


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 21, 2011, 10:26:38 AM
note that it might take 10 days to get paid at 2x difficulty PPLNS because you can still get a payment for a block that is 3.6M shares later which in this pool is a while
mineco.in uses 1/2 difficulty for this reason
eligius can use 8*difficulty because they can blow through 10M shares fairly quickly

That is a good point.

So either it takes a long time to get paid, or you have many shares you don't get paid for. Neither sounds perfect. But it seems miners at mineco.in don't care too much about unpaid shares.

If anyone has a preference on this, let's hear it.

High N (2*difficulty): small chance shares don't get paid, but payments still coming for old shares after 12 days
Small N (difficulty/2): high chance shares don't get paid, but payments for a share finish within 3 days or so

If anyone has any questions about PPLNS or another reward system, feel free to ask.


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 26, 2011, 07:39:03 PM
DrH please optimize for the 5800 when you can!

I'm working on this right now. You can try the beta version (see the miner thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.0)) - I believe it is about 1% faster on Radeon 5xxx. I'm still working on improving this further, though.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbo4000 on August 26, 2011, 08:31:52 PM
According to the logfile, I'm using the 'beta' 1.0 version (Even though it's the one from the non-beta link on the page). I can't make this thing work for the life of me. One of two things happens.

1. I log in successfully, see briefly 'GPU Device 0 has no space left, wating for confirmation' or something like that (it's not there long enough to read), then the screen goes black, and the computer restarts as if it had a BSOD (And windows considers it one, it makes a minidump).
2. The 'Proceed' button on the log in doesn't work. I can click it forever to no avail.

I'm using an AMD Phenom II X4 965 for my CPU and an NVidia GTX 460 as my GPU. The prospect of 100+ MH/s was enticing (I can overclock even higher than the value listed above and still see stability)... but it doesn't look like the client will work.


EDIT: Just noticed this is now popping up whenever I click 'start'
Code:
2011.08.26 [15:55]  Unable to load settings: java.io.IOException: For input string: "

EDIT2: It now is claiming my card doesn't support OpenCL... but it certainly does. Both the official page and GPU-Z say it does, at least.
Code:
2011.08.26 [15:59] Device drivers for GeForce GTX 460 (#1) does not support OpenCL 1.1. Unable to detect whether the
work group size is optimal.

What on earth is going on here...?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 26, 2011, 09:30:54 PM
According to the logfile, I'm using the 'beta' 1.0 version (Even though it's the one from the non-beta link on the page). I can't make this thing work for the life of me. One of two things happens.

Yeah, they are both "1.0 beta". I will change this soon.

1. I log in successfully, see briefly 'GPU Device 0 has no space left, wating for confirmation' or something like that (it's not there long enough to read), then the screen goes black, and the computer restarts as if it had a BSOD (And windows considers it one, it makes a minidump).

Hmm, I've never heard of this before. Since it crashes the whole system, I guess there's no crash dump left by Java on your desktop. Can you run other miners ok? Are you using the latest nvidia drivers? I would guess this is a crash in the drivers.

2. The 'Proceed' button on the log in doesn't work. I can click it forever to no avail.

I'm using an AMD Phenom II X4 965 for my CPU and an NVidia GTX 460 as my GPU. The prospect of 100+ MH/s was enticing (I can overclock even higher than the value listed above and still see stability)... but it doesn't look like the client will work.

EDIT: Just noticed this is now popping up whenever I click 'start'
Code:
2011.08.26 [15:55]  Unable to load settings: java.io.IOException: For input string: "

Sorry, there's a bug in there somewhere that I haven't been able to find yet. On rare occassions some users would get a completely blank login window. I put in additional error checking, which is causing the message you see about being unable to load settings. I guess this could be related to the "proceed" button not reacting. I will look into that. Hopefully I can finally squash this bug.

You could try deleting the BitMinter muffins, then restarting the client and trying again. Java WebStart muffins, on Windows, are located somewhere like:

C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\LocalLow\Sun\Java\Deployment\cache\6.0\muffin

Muffins are kind of like browser cookies. It's where the BitMinter client stores its settings, like username and password.

As a general note about nvidia and 100+ Mhps: you have to turn off vectors, otherwise there will be a performance hit. And vectors are on by default (I'm going to change that for nvidia GPUs).

EDIT2: It now is claiming my card doesn't support OpenCL... but it certainly does. Both the official page and GPU-Z say it does, at least.
Code:
2011.08.26 [15:59] Device drivers for GeForce GTX 460 (#1) does not support OpenCL 1.1. Unable to detect whether the
work group size is optimal.

Perhaps the wording of this message should be changed. What it means is that your nvidia drivers only support OpenCL 1.0, not the OpenCL 1.1 interface. This means BitMinter is unable to detect optimal work group sizes for your GPU and warn you if you use a sub-optimal one. Not really a big deal, so it can just be ignored.

Nvidia had an OpenCL 1.1 driver in beta for over a year, without 1.1 support making it into the regular drivers. But I believe I read somewhere that the latest nvidia drivers have OpenCL 1.1 support, or that the next release will. Can't find where I read that now, though.


Title: Re: [~40 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbo4000 on August 26, 2011, 10:19:31 PM
Amazing, it actually worked. I'm assuming it was the 'BSOD' that caused the Muffins to mess up, but... I dunno. ???

Unfortunately, it's slower than a CUDA miner for me. :[ The Gfx card goes at about 57-60 MH/s at 851 Mhz Core clock with 64 WGS, 50 ms interval, no vectors, BFI-INT enabled. Perhaps I should try increasing the WGS? (Work group size)

On GUIminer's CUDA miner, I use -gpugrid=512 -gputhreads=700 -aggression=8 and get 80-90 MH/s.


Title: Re: [~40 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 26, 2011, 10:43:04 PM
Wow, is CUDA that much faster on nvidia hardware than OpenCL? I will have to look into adding CUDA-support. I have to finish Radeon 5xxx optimizations first, though. Thanks for the info. :)


Title: Re: [~40 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbo4000 on August 26, 2011, 10:51:32 PM
Keep in mind that this is WITHOUT my OC, just a quick picture I took and cropped for uploading.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4382/mhsh.png

Although, what I'm more interested in is how you pulled off this when my clock was faster than this. Using the exact same settings I got half the speed.
Quote
NVIDIA GTX 580, overclocked to 812 MHz, GeForce 275.33 drivers
- 134 mhps BitMinter (vectors off, worksize 64, 50 ms intervals)
- 132.3 mhps Phoenix (-k poclbm WORKSIZE=64 VECTORS FASTLOOP AGGRESSION=7)
- 33 mhps with DiabloMiner and Phoenix+phatk (with vectors on: only 13 mhps)

Finally, your CPU mining could use a biiiiiiit of optimization. I get .46 Mh/s and on rpcminer-4way (Quad-core CPU) I pull 12.46 Mh/s.
This does however show promise, given how quick you were to respond. :o


Title: Re: [~40 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 26, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
Maybe the GTX 580 is that much faster than the 460? I dunno. I run it now at stock speed with 127 Mhps.

Yeah, the CPU mining isn't really intended for use the way it is now. Next step for that is to implement OpenCL CPU-mining. This should be a significant boost, but I don't expect it to beat the fast CPU miners. After that it may useful to implement CPU-mining based on assembly language. The question is whether it will really be worth the effort. But I do want to have decent speed CPU mining.


Title: Re: [~40 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbo4000 on August 26, 2011, 11:08:17 PM
On the topic of the 580, how many 'CU' does it have? The 460 has 7.


EDIT: In fact, it's now even LOWER! I barely pull 20 MH/s now on your client. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?
Further: I do notice there are new drivers out... I'll try them.


Title: Re: [~40 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on August 27, 2011, 08:09:53 AM
The GTX 580 has 16 CUs (compute units). Apparently there is a big difference between 460 and 580 according to the mining hardware comparison (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison) charts.

The reason you suddenly got a lower hashrate is probably because you forgot to turn off vectors this time. I forget that myself too. I'll have to make vectors off the default for nvidia soon - the way it is gives people a really bad impression of the miner on nvidia hardware.


Title: Re: [~80 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 01, 2011, 12:12:15 PM
Finally! Good job, people. Always good when those slow blocks are finally solved.  ;D


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 01, 2011, 07:07:01 PM
There's a problem with the pool backend... I'm working on it.


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 01, 2011, 07:26:23 PM
Everything back up. Sorry for the downtime!


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bayer on September 02, 2011, 10:37:50 AM
and 2 short blocks very nice


Title: Re: [~80 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 02, 2011, 11:32:29 AM
Yeah, we're on a lucky streak now  8)


Title: Re: [~80 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Clipse on September 02, 2011, 04:50:27 PM
wow amazing luck for such a small pool. another block haha


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 04, 2011, 02:30:13 AM
BitMinterD 1.0 (the mining pool software) up and running.

Changes:
  • Reduced use of server resources considerably - for future scalability
  • Notify long pollers faster at block changes

So, only internal changes that you should not notice beyond slightly lower stales. It's been tested on the bitcoin test network and seems stable enough, but let me know if you experience any problems.


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 04, 2011, 03:54:09 AM
Figures. It produced less stales on the test network, but does the opposite on the regular bitcoin network.

I have reverted back to the old version until I can debug this. Sorry for the inconvenience.


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 04, 2011, 05:20:29 PM
Now running latest version with bug fixed. It was a race condition that would happen rarely, but when it did it would cause a whole group of rejected proofs of work.

Parallel programming is fun once you find and remove the race conditions. :P

The pool server is now lean and mean. A good foundation to build on. For the future I'll add a new reward system, and probably support for roll-ntime.


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 05, 2011, 01:43:16 PM
Just had a little downtime on the pool. I apologize for this. I was actually watching the top10 list now and then, but stupidly it keeps displaying the last data it has if the pool stops working properly. I'm going to change that and look at better ways to supervise the pool so I can react fast if something happens.

Anyway, everything back to normal again.


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Jepito on September 05, 2011, 06:58:42 PM
trying this new pool with 6 machines ...  gigabyte 6959 cards and  6870 cards lol ....


i wish the server would update FASTER  than the 5 min crap on the live update  >:( ??? ...  MAKE IT EVERY 10 SECONDS  :D


slushes pool is where i came from ...   ::)  the updated page is great



ill stick around till the payout to see what i get :o

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/Jepito/cards.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/Jepito/IMG_0575.jpg


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 05, 2011, 07:50:47 PM
trying this new pool with 6 machines ...  gigabyte 6959 cards and  6870 cards lol ....

Welcome to the crew!

Cool pictures. When I look at that I understand why I am getting further down on the top10 list lately.  :D

I may change the stats to update more frequently. I'm just a bit unsure how much it will add to the server load once we have a lot of users, so I don't want to make it too frequent.

Anyone else with pictures of their rigs?


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on September 07, 2011, 07:01:30 AM
For some reason, after seeing that picture above, I feel very, very... very... very very very insignificant.  :o

http://hostfile.org/thumbs/L_P9060003.jpg.png (http://hostfile.org/P9060003.jpg)

My 212MH/s one-and-only rig, cleverly disguised as an old piece-of-junker. Then again, I dunno if it's really a disguise anymore.  :P

edit: Oh, and it runs outside on the porch, since I live on the 2nd floor (so that's only accessible from the inside, unless someone throws a rope up - dedication!!), and we're in middle of dry weather... it completely negates the need for running air-conditioning to remove the generated heat. Sad thing is, I'm already running a tight consumption-to-return rate on the electricity, and having burned $2.50 on electricity to generate less than ~0.4 Bitcoin, I'm really quite frustrated with mining at the moment... :?


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 07, 2011, 08:50:44 PM
My 212MH/s one-and-only rig, cleverly disguised as an old piece-of-junker. Then again, I dunno if it's really a disguise anymore.  :P

Hehe :)

What's the thing on top of the case? For measuring electricity consumption? I need to get me one of those.

I bet you're not the only one frustrated with mining. Bitcoin at $7 now! I remember when it was $30. I guess that's why the hashrate/difficulty is dropping - I bet a lot of people are unhappy with profitability now.


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on September 08, 2011, 05:49:38 AM
Hehe :)

What's the thing on top of the case? For measuring electricity consumption? I need to get me one of those.

I bet you're not the only one frustrated with mining. Bitcoin at $7 now! I remember when it was $30. I guess that's why the hashrate/difficulty is dropping - I bet a lot of people are unhappy with profitability now.
Yeah, it's a Kill-A-Watt EZ, programmed with an average electricity cost of $0.15/kWh. It shows the current total cost (displayed in full pic), cost/week, cost/month, cost/year, etc., as well as power factor (1.0 is "perfect" and this system is at 0.99), and any other metric you could imagine to measure/monitor power. Right now it's looking right on the edge of profit - if I sell my "almost-1-bitcoin" I've made over the past couple weeks, I might pay the power bill... :/ Nowheres near paying off the $100 GPU, though :(

Just curious, what happened to the pool's block-finding? We seem to be stuck on the same block since the 2nd, that's running almost 5 days on the same block... just a streak of really bad luck?

edit: Oh, and the other thing attached to it is my powerline Ethernet adapter, enabling me to keep the thing completely outside without hanging any wires out the door, or installing a wireless adapter ;)


Title: Re: [~50 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 09, 2011, 07:55:51 AM
Just curious, what happened to the pool's block-finding? We seem to be stuck on the same block since the 2nd, that's running almost 5 days on the same block... just a streak of really bad luck?

Yes, bad luck. This is the problem with the proportional payment method. A lot of people leave when the pool has bad luck.

I've been looking at some of the new payment methods, like double geometric. But now I am again leaning towards a shift-based PPLNS. I will try to get a new system in soon, to get things stabilized.


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on September 09, 2011, 03:36:57 PM
Aye, it's definitely a problem when your pool bases itself around a proprietary client as well... personally, I got to thinking there was a bug in the client or something. Admittedly, going 2...3 days and still seeing 0 balance, I wasn't much encouraged ;) I think I need to stick to a share-based system just to maintain my sanity - with only one truly-functioning GPU, I need to make sure it keeps paying for itself ;)


Title: Re: [~25 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 12, 2011, 05:36:56 AM
There's never been that kind of bug in the client nor server. But yeah, I can understand that it feels like "nothing is happening".

It just takes a while when we are unlucky and get 4-5 million share blocks.

New payment system (shift-based PPLNS) coming soon. Hopefully that will help get the hashrate higher and keep it there.


Title: Re: [~20 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 13, 2011, 05:41:02 PM
Admittedly, going 2...3 days and still seeing 0 balance, I wasn't much encouraged ;) I think I need to stick to a share-based system just to maintain my sanity - with only one truly-functioning GPU, I need to make sure it keeps paying for itself ;)

I dont think you get an electricity invoice every 2-3 days (and I hope you dont actually need the BCs to pay for them), so with the 150 free BTCs being handed out, you will almost certainly make more BCs per month on this pool. Dont get me wrong, Im also mining with just one rig, still waiting for the first "paycheck" so I know how it feels, but I bet it will feel better once that check comes in :). Getting dozens of 0.01 BCs  from slush also gets boring you know, and still doesnt add up to a whole lot ;).


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 15, 2011, 06:35:59 PM
Ive talked in my game community about mining BTCs using BitMinter (through syndication) but as expected there is quite some resistance against it. There is the usual arguments that I can handle ("its a scam" and blah blah), but the biggest complaint surprised me somewhat, its that bitminter is closed source and they worry if it wont steal bitcoins or do other more nefarious things.

 I know this is a very deliberate choice for you, but I wonder if you shouldnt consider an opensource license thats more restrictive than GPL. The idea would be that people can verify what the app does, not allowing them to copy your code. Im no expert on open software licenses, but Im sure there are plenty of those. Is that something you'd consider doing?



Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 16, 2011, 11:44:23 AM
Regarding some people not trusting a closed-source client, I'll have to think about how best to solve this.

The problem with opening the source is that this alone does not solve the trust problem. When you start the client, Java WebStart checks the server to see if there is a newer version. If there is, it replaces the binary code you have with new code from the server. So I could show you some clean source code, and then serve you bad binary code the next time you start up the program. Kind of like a bait and switch.

The same thing goes for open-source miners. If you just download a binary compiled by someone else, how do you know which source code they compiled it from? They could have put anything into the binary. You have to download the source code and compile it yourself. Preferably you should also do a security review on it yourself, but you can of course hope that someone else did, if it is a popular program and the source has been available for a while.

I see Java WebStart as one of the big benefits of this miner. You don't have to download, compile or even install anything. Just click and off it goes.

Maybe it helps to just open source it even if that by itself gives no real security. Security theatre often works to calm people.  :D Just kidding.

Anyway, I'm still thinking about all this ...


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 16, 2011, 08:07:41 PM

Maybe it helps to just open source it even if that by itself gives no real security. Security theatre often works to calm people.  :D Just kidding.

Kidding or not, its actually true. But if you want to infect 30 ? or so users with malware (users that actually generate profits for you), thereby also guaranteeing the end of your pool the moment its discovered,  there are probably easier ways to do it.

Agreed with your points btw and I had thought of them, its just that "hiding" your source makes people suspicious. Having the source in public and people being able to compile it from source if they wish, simply inspires more trust even if it doesnt prove the binary (or whatever you call that with java, bytecode?) is actually the same.

Anyway, I do think its good people are getting suspicious and demanding OSS, even windows gamers. While I wish they were more consistent in that demand, like for their OS heh,  I definitely see that as progress. Just 2 weeks ago I witnessed the same on a forum for a flight sim I play (Rise Of Flight). A long time member posted some "optimization" app. When I read it, I was almost certain lots of people would have fallen for it, given the average PC incompetence on that forum (typically old farts with no clue about computers) Surprisingly  everyone was immediately highly suspicious, afaik no one even installed it even though it came clean on virus scans; I scanned it myself, and uploaded to some multi av scanner online, came back clean. Decompiling showed it was malware, but people are learning not to just trust any app. For anyone interested, here is the thread (first post obviously edited by a moderator since):
http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=23491

Ok, sorry for off topic. HURRAY we got another block :D


Title: New hop-proof payment system
Post by: DrHaribo on September 18, 2011, 08:58:19 PM
We are switching payment system!

The switch will happen after the next block is created. So block #17 will be proportional. Block #18 and up will be the new system.

I have implemented a shift-based variation of PPLNS like mentioned before. Here is how it works:

Each proof of work is given a score equal to one divided by the difficulty at the time it was submitted. Proofs of work are grouped in shifts. A shift is completed when its total score passes 0.1. Whenever new coins are minted, they are divided between contributing members proportionally to the total score each member has within the last 10 completed shifts. You can see the completed shifts at https://bitminter.com/shifts (https://bitminter.com/shifts).

The purpose of this switch is to make pool hopping pointless, thereby stabilizing payouts for 24/7 miners.

More statistics coming soon. Let me know what you would like to see.

The following changes were put into production today:
  • Shift-based variation of PPLNS implemented.
  • Fixed bug that could make a miner disappear from the top 10 live stats, making it show only 9 miners.
  • Changed pool speed, worker speed and top 10 speeds to be exponential moving averages. This should stabilize the numbers somewhat.


Title: Re: New hop-proof payment system
Post by: P4man on September 18, 2011, 09:23:55 PM
We are switching payment system!ing payouts for 24/7 miners.

Sounds good!

Quote
More statistics coming soon. Let me know what you would like to see.

Id like see my share of the current block, and how many shares have been completed in the current block. Also please expand the top 10. Im never going to make top 10, but Id like to see my stats in the ahm.. top 100 (once I fix my rig)  :)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 19, 2011, 08:45:17 AM
my bitminter app(miners, 2 different machines) went haywire on me today, my guiminer was fine(3x480). my 6990 was jumping from 70-90% usage and my 5870 just plain froze. i restarted, all seems fine now????  any ideas?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 19, 2011, 08:52:50 AM
though, i should mention my guiminer had 6800/58 stale per card today


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 19, 2011, 09:17:22 AM
my bitminter app(miners, 2 different machines) went haywire on me today, my guiminer was fine(3x480). my 6990 was jumping from 70-90% usage and my 5870 just plain froze. i restarted, all seems fine now????  any ideas?

Are you monitoring volts and temps? Might be a very long shot, but for a short while I thought it was bitminter, as it had frozen up,  and needed restarting, but the problem as it  turned out, was overheating due to voltage spikes (1.65v!); voltage spikes caused by, you wouldnt believe it... monitoring voltages and temps.

If you run one or two monitoring apps simultaneously, like GPU-Z and everest or afterburner, this can happen.  Restarting bitminter "cured" the problem, because of the GPU load drop, the GPU clocked down and the voltages corrected themselves. But the problem had nothing to do with bitminter, everything with the hardware monitoring apps.

Read more here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44495.msg532849#msg532849

Dont know it this problem exists with radeon 6xxx cards, but its very real with 5xx0 cards.




Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 19, 2011, 11:09:52 AM
my bitminter app(miners, 2 different machines) went haywire on me today, my guiminer was fine(3x480). my 6990 was jumping from 70-90% usage and my 5870 just plain froze. i restarted, all seems fine now????  any ideas?

I just noticed the BitMinter client has a much higher memory usage after it has been running for a long time. It wasn't like this before. A memory leak must have sneaked its way into the latest version. I will get right on that. Maybe it is related to the problem you had - not sure.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 19, 2011, 04:05:44 PM
the one that froze was a clean install of windows 7, no monitoring at all.  the other machine with the usuage jumping, (lol, youll love this) is a sli board with a 5870 in slot one and the 6990 in slot 2,(cooler on the bottom)this was the first time it screwed up.  usually i get barely any stales(3-4/day/per card) on guiminer.  i find my 480's run better with guiminer.  on a side note, i couldnt get the 6990 to work on this other board, too old i think, otherwise i would have the 5870's together.  the only monitoring i have is afterburner, and its only on the 6990/5870 system, im pretty sure the voltage isnt shown because of the 6990.  the cards are alittle dirty so my highest temp ive seen is 80(current temp 79.77,and 69) and not overclocked(7647/3/0 for 8 hrs,ave 1100/mhps, running better).  gotta go to work now, pay for powerbill......


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 19, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Found a nasty bug causing memory to leak. This and two other fixes in the new beta version:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg534764#msg534764 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg534764#msg534764)

Please try the beta and see if it works better.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: worldinacoin on September 23, 2011, 02:23:51 PM
I just tried bitminter, that is really cool!  Such a pity that I did not discover it earlier on.  Using my oldest machine on nvidia to mine is still quite fast!  The best thing is it is so simple!  Do not have to go through all the configurations as in others.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 23, 2011, 03:34:44 PM
Good to hear :) Just remember to turn off "manual vectors" when mining on nvidia as this seems to slow things down.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2011, 04:49:34 PM
The problem with opening the source is that this alone does not solve the trust problem. When you start the client, Java WebStart checks the server to see if there is a newer version. If there is, it replaces the binary code you have with new code from the server. So I could show you some clean source code, and then serve you bad binary code the next time you start up the program. Kind of like a bait and switch.

True but one could hash both a "known good" version and the version downloaded from server.  If the hashes don't match then the code has been changed/tampered.

Quote
The same thing goes for open-source miners. If you just download a binary compiled by someone else, how do you know which source code they compiled it from? They could have put anything into the binary. You have to download the source code and compile it yourself. Preferably you should also do a security review on it yourself, but you can of course hope that someone else did, if it is a popular program and the source has been available for a while.

The community is safer even those who download precompiled versions because if ANYONE who does compile notices something unusual they can notify others, start and investigation, create a thread, etc.  With source completely closed you choices are limited to a) run it b) don't run it.  Period.

Quote
I see Java WebStart as one of the big benefits of this miner. You don't have to download, compile or even install anything. Just click and off it goes. Maybe it helps to just open source it even if that by itself gives no real security. Security theatre often works to calm people.  :D Just kidding.

W/ java webstart 99.9% of users likely will still just run it but it is more difficult to get away with malfeasance if source code is available for the other 0.1%. 

How many people compile chrome (technically chromium)?  Those that don't still benefit from those that do.  While open-source isn't a magic bullet to call it security theater is silly.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2011, 04:52:34 PM
One thing I have noticed and I am not sure if it is a true slowdown or just a bug is that when minimized the program runs faster (or at least reports it does).

Simple experiment.

I have a 5970.  I get ~720MH/s.  If I minimize bitminter, wait a few minutes and then open it the "speedometer" is at 750MH/s.  It then predictably falls off slowly back to 720MH/s.

750 vs 720 ~ 5% so not insignificant.    I just noticed this today over a RDP session so maybe it only happens when viewing remote?

I just don't have detailed enough stats to see if it really is a speed change or if it some graphical/reporting bug.

On edit:  I guess I could use the reset counter.  Run it for a couple hours "visible" record time & shares.  Reset.  Run it for a couple hours "hidden".  Compare shares to expected hashrate.  I will try that tonight.

Anyone else notice this.  Pretty easily to replicate.

1) start bitminter.
2) run w/ bitminter app visible until hashrate stabilizes.  record hashrate
3) minimize bitminter
4) restore bitminter and confirm changed hashrate.
5) watch hashrate decay back to number recorded in step 2.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 23, 2011, 05:38:44 PM
How many people compile chrome (technically chromium)?  Those that don't still benefit from those that do.  While open-source isn't a magic bullet to call it security theater is silly.

My point is that if you download and run a binary it really doesn't matter if it came from an open or closed source. In both cases you have to trust the person who made that binary. The binary isn't necessarily built from the source they are showing you. If you download a binary from a mirror and there is no crypto signature or hash to verify the file came from the people you think it came from, then you have to trust the people running the mirror as well.

If you look at source A and then run binary B, then saying it being open source improves your security is security theatre.

If you download the source and build it yourself, then that has real security value. As long as you or others go through the source.

One thing I have noticed and I am not sure if it is a true slowdown or just a bug is that when minimized the program runs faster (or at least reports it does).

If you are running it in full detailed mode then all the speedometers will slow down one of the GPUs. That's why I put in "performance mode" with the button in the lower right corner which can be used to hide the speedometers. Also minimizing the program should prevent the slow down, as you observed.

One GPU has to do the screen updates, and the more screen updates there are the less it can work on bitcoins. Therefore the slowdown is more noticable the more GPUs you have, because then you have more speedometers. You'll also see a slowdown from using youtube, etc. (old AMD drivers would crash if running video and mining at the same time, but that seems to be fixed now)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 23, 2011, 06:10:57 PM
One GPU has to do the screen updates, and the more screen updates there are the less it can work on bitcoins.

You cant be serious? Drawing a 2D tacho needle would require basically zero GPU resources and perhaps a tiny % of CPU resources unless you update it 10.000x per second (and even then). You sure you are not doing something wrong here, or is that a side effect of the toolkit you are using?

Quote
Therefore the slowdown is more noticable the more GPUs you have, because then you have more speedometers. You'll also see a slowdown from using youtube, etc. (old AMD drivers would crash if running video and mining at the same time, but that seems to be fixed now)

If you run youtube, on windows at least, UVD is used, or whatever the hardware video decoder is called. That results the GPU clock being slowed to 400 MHz (on my machine). That is causing the slowdown. I can watch youtube on linux and it has no real impact on hashrate.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 23, 2011, 08:11:21 PM
You cant be serious? Drawing a 2D tacho needle would require basically zero GPU resources and perhaps a tiny % of CPU resources unless you update it 10.000x per second (and even then). You sure you are not doing something wrong here, or is that a side effect of the toolkit you are using?

On one of my machines with 4 GPUs the hash rate drops from 1435 to 1415 (roughly), when I go from performance to detailed mode, which is a 1.4% drop. On a couple machines with single GPUs I can't really see a drop.

While I was developing the miner the drop was much higher until I put in code to update the meters less frequently.

But yeah, a drop from 750 to 720 does seem excessive. That's 4%. I don't think I've seen the meters cause that high a drop.

If you run youtube, on windows at least, UVD is used, or whatever the hardware video decoder is called. That results the GPU clock being slowed to 400 MHz (on my machine). That is causing the slowdown. I can watch youtube on linux and it has no real impact on hashrate.

Yeah, on the machine mentioned above the hash rate drops from 1435 to 1360 with a youtube video running. But if I right click the video, go in the flash settings and turn off hardware acceleration, I get hash rate up to 1415 with a video running (have to reload the web page after changing settings though, to see an effect).


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 24, 2011, 11:11:34 AM
Block 17 was found this morning, but there was a problem with splitting the income. I am working to fix correct shares to everyone based on audit logs. More info will follow. Everyone will get correct payment, and next block will be split according to the new PPLNS shifts.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! *** 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 24, 2011, 02:32:22 PM
Everything in order again. You can see your pay as unconfirmed in your account, or click the block in the block list and have a look.

By the way, if anyone would like the audit log for this or another block, let me know and I will get you a copy where IP addresses are censored out. You can use it to verify that the number of proofs of work for each user for a block is correct, and even check that every proof of work is valid (requires a little programming - but the complete block header is available in the audit log).

That was the last proportional block. We are now on PPLNS with shifts, and hopper-proof.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 24, 2011, 03:54:12 PM
Clicking the block shows my share, but I see nothing as unconfirmed payment, nor did I receive anything yet.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 24, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
Try it again. I had forgotten to update the unconfirmed balance after the PPLNS changes. Sorry about that!


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 24, 2011, 06:40:59 PM
Yep, now it shows as unconfirmed.
Is it possible the % have changed though? Maybe I clicked the wrong block earlier, but I thought I saw I had under 1%. Now Im at 0.76%.
I probably just clicked the previous block tho.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 24, 2011, 07:20:55 PM
At first the block income was split using PPLNS rules instead of proportional rules. It may be that you looked at the future payouts before I fixed it. These numbers were up on the webpage for some minutes before I noticed it was wrong. At that point I removed this data from the database and the block disappeared from the block list. After that it took me a while to write a program to parse the audit logs and create the payout data anew, this time with the proportional system. Then the block reappeared, now with correct numbers.

I feel it would be bad form to switch reward system in the middle of a block, so we had to get that last proportional block out of the way.

It could be that you saw these PPLNS-based numbers sometime between the time I posted the first message saying there was a problem, and the time I posted the message saying everything was fixed.

I'm very sorry for the bumpy ride switching to the new reward system. Everything worked properly when I tested it on my test server last sunday.

At least now we are hopper proof and the next time we are on a lucky roll the bitcoins will be distributed more fairly instead of being affected by pool hopping.


Title: New statistics available
Post by: DrHaribo on September 25, 2011, 02:01:44 AM
Some new stats available.

In the block list (https://bitminter.com/blocks (https://bitminter.com/blocks)) the CDF is now shown, which indicates the luck we had with each block. For block 17 it is 92.6%, meaning that when we started there was a 92.6% chance to finish with this many proofs of work or less. Or put another way, 92.6% of blocks are found faster than this one. That's pretty bad. let's hope our luck turns back to the way it was with blocks 11 through 14. The difficulty at the time the block was created is also shown.

The live stats (click live stats button at the top of any bitminter page) now has round statistics. This gives a pretty good idea of what is going on at any moment. The numbers are updated from the server every 5 minutes. In between that, local updates are extrapolated based on the pool hash rate.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 25, 2011, 07:37:43 PM
Still adding more stats...

Ever wonder which miners people are using? https://bitminter.com/miners


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 25, 2011, 08:27:21 PM
w00t! I found my first block :p

Feature request: play some appropriate jingle when youve minted a block :D


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on September 25, 2011, 09:15:48 PM
I was just idly checking statistics and I was like, WHOA HOLY SHIT... that's like, the most I'd ever made in any pool at once! Sweeeeet! OK, my patience has officially paid off. :D


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on September 25, 2011, 09:23:39 PM
Still adding more stats...

Ever wonder which miners people are using? https://bitminter.com/miners

Haha, that's awesome. Also brings up a question I'd had... is there a way to get BitMinter to start/stop via command line? My roommate leaves his PC on 24/7 and I just convinced him to buy an AMD A6 APU that nets a good 40Mhash/sec during idle time while barely using any power... but I want to set up an automatic profile that starts mining when WoW is closed and stops when he opens WoW... it plays smooth even with mining going, but it runs smoother with it stopped. If there's just a simple command line option I could feed it (like "-stop"), I could probably set up a utility to do it automatically...


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on September 25, 2011, 09:52:25 PM
Still adding more stats...

Ever wonder which miners people are using? https://bitminter.com/miners


Interesting.  Not sure if you have access to it but would be interesting to see which GPU are used (at least for those running Bitminter miner).
Also a top 10/20/50 list for highest hashrates in the pool would be nice.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 26, 2011, 04:39:19 PM
edit seems to be okay now  ???

/edit

Is there a problem with multiple workers and/or phoenix?

Ive just brought an old rig online as test, and created a new worker for it, and I would get between 1 - 3 accepted shares fairly quickly, and then nothing for hours, while the machine was still claiming a whopping 30MH.

Ive deleted and recreated another worker and reconfigured the miner, and had the same thing. First share was accepted, then nothing.

Now Ive tried it on a different pool, and I have no problems there, currently looking at 10 accepted shared in about as many minutes?

Im using phoenix btw, as its a really old machine (pentium 4 with a geforce 8800) and I got way "better" performance with phoenix than bitminter



Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 26, 2011, 06:14:32 PM
Feature request: play some appropriate jingle when youve minted a block :D

That's actually on my list already. I just have to find the time to work through that TODO list!

Haha, that's awesome. Also brings up a question I'd had... is there a way to get BitMinter to start/stop via command line? My roommate leaves his PC on 24/7 and I just convinced him to buy an AMD A6 APU that nets a good 40Mhash/sec during idle time while barely using any power... but I want to set up an automatic profile that starts mining when WoW is closed and stops when he opens WoW... it plays smooth even with mining going, but it runs smoother with it stopped. If there's just a simple command line option I could feed it (like "-stop"), I could probably set up a utility to do it automatically...

Hmm, yeah, that would be useful. Added to the list.

Interesting.  Not sure if you have access to it but would be interesting to see which GPU are used (at least for those running Bitminter miner).

Hmm, yeah, I suppose I could make the miner report in the devices used and make some statistics on the server. It would be cool stats for sure. Just too bad it wouldn't work with other miners. Anyway - I put it on the list. :)

Also a top 10/20/50 list for highest hashrates in the pool would be nice.

Yeah, everyone seems to want a bigger top hashrates list. ;D The way you put it sounds like a good solution. Maybe a button to switch between 10/20/50. Added to list.

Is there a problem with multiple workers and/or phoenix?

I don't think so. I run multiple workers all the time, and I see in miner stats that we have a few Phoenix users. I just tried Phoenix now and it worked fine.

Ive just brought an old rig online as test, and created a new worker for it, and I would get between 1 - 3 accepted shares fairly quickly, and then nothing for hours, while the machine was still claiming a whopping 30MH.

Ive deleted and recreated another worker and reconfigured the miner, and had the same thing. First share was accepted, then nothing.

Now Ive tried it on a different pool, and I have no problems there, currently looking at 10 accepted shared in about as many minutes?

Well, that does sound bad. Anyone else have similar problems?

Im using phoenix btw, as its a really old machine (pentium 4 with a geforce 8800) and I got way "better" performance with phoenix than bitminter

You probably have "manual vectors" on with the bitminter miner. On nvidia things go much better with them off.

That said, I think there's a CUDA miner that might be fastest on nvidia. Can't remember what it's called though.. cudaminer?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 26, 2011, 07:13:54 PM
Well, as I mentioned in the edit, for whatever reason it does seem to work now, only,  Im getting suspiciously high rejection rates on the slow nvidia/phoenix machine. On my main rig I have 2 rejects out of 6000+ (which is awesome). On the slow nv machine Im now looking at  4 rejected out of 27. Is that just terrible luck or because its so slow?

as for the fastest cuda miner; no matter, I was simply testing the 'case' and internet connection, running it headless etc, as the machine is tucked in a kewlox cupboard in a side building of my house:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3314/img031pw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/img031pw.jpg/)
[/URL]

Since it seems to work and no fire has broken out yet, so I have just ordered a 5850 to replace the nvidia card.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 26, 2011, 07:20:37 PM
Well, as I mentioned in the edit, for whatever reason it does seem to work now, only,  Im getting suspiciously high rejection rates on the slow nvidia/phoenix machine. On my main rig I have 2 rejects out of 6000+ (which is awesome). On the slow nv machine Im now looking at  4 rejected out of 27. Is that just terrible luck or because its so slow?

Over 10% rejected is ridiculous. It could be a problem with long polling. Long polling should normally keep the rejected numbers way lower than that.

I hope this wasn't with the bitminter miner. In the last version I thought I made long polling pretty safe even with the routers that are most aggressive with killing idle connections.

Since it seems to work and no fire has broken out yet, so I have just ordered a 5850 to replace the nvidia card.

Cool :) Just keep it open like on the picture or I think a fire will break out. ;)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 26, 2011, 07:47:05 PM
Over 10% rejected is ridiculous. It could be a problem with long polling. Long polling should normally keep the rejected numbers way lower than that.

I hope this wasn't with the bitminter miner. In the last version I thought I made long polling pretty safe even with the routers that are most aggressive with killing idle connections.

No, it was with phoenix. But when I ran the same miner on the same machine on slush pool for a while, I didnt have any rejects. If it helps, here is a screenshot:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9647/screenshotbobbitcoin.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/screenshotbobbitcoin.png/)

Quote
Cool :) Just keep it open like on the picture or I think a fire will break out. ;)

I actually did put a fire detector/alarm in there :) And Im still gonna turn it off for the night. There is a supply of firewood in there, and its right below my bedroom.  Illl probably also add a deskfan of sorts,  as despite being so open, heat does get trapped in it. Couldnt have used a worse CPU, 3.4 GHz prescott and a motherboard that doesnt let me underclock it. And with nvidia openCL its constantly running at 100%. Thats what you get when you use scrap lol. Think I have something lower power somewhere or at least a motherboard that will let me underclock it.




Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on September 26, 2011, 08:07:49 PM
I have found bitminter to be one of the best pools when it comes to stales.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/893/lowstale.png

Ignore the 0MHz I am accessing the desktop remotely through RDP and that seems to confuse cgminer.

~15 hours,  19,462 shares and 5 rejected = 0.03% stale rate.

Is bitminter doing something special?  I am guessing if it is ultra fast at reporting new block via longpoll that would be the only thing that would bring down stale rate right?  Weirdly I have noticed my rejected shares are lower since I started watercooling but that can't be right because rejected shares should only depend on network latency right?

The fact that bitminter is closed source is still a concern of mine but bitminter the pool seems to be doing very well using 3rd party minter (cgminer).


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 26, 2011, 08:50:02 PM
No, it was with phoenix. But when I ran the same miner on the same machine on slush pool for a while, I didnt have any rejects. If it helps, here is a screenshot:

I thought slush's pool didn't even have long polling? Or maybe it does now?

I see in the screenshot that you had some longpoll (LP) messages, the latest at 19:54, then nothing all the way down to 21:39. This tells me long poll has failed. You do have some rejected shares over that timerange, and that's probably the places where longpoll should have been giving you new (non-stale) work.

Maybe you have a router that kills idle connections? You could look in its configuration if there is a setting for how long TCP connections are allowed to be idle before they get killed off. This is the reason I made the bitminter miner restart the longpoll connection every 5 minutes.

Perhaps I should kill long poll connections also from the server-side after 5 minutes? I am working on getting TCP keep-alive in there though, much better solution than restarting connections all the time.

Is bitminter doing something special?  I am guessing if it is ultra fast at reporting new block via longpoll that would be the only thing that would bring down stale rate right?

The server is just fast with long polling, that is correct. I don't really see another way the server can reduce stales.

The fact that bitminter is closed source is still a concern of mine but bitminter the pool seems to be doing very well using 3rd party minter (cgminer).

Sure, I want all client software to work, and cgminer seems like a popular one nowadays.

Part of the reason you get such ultra-low stales is also cgminer I think. I heard somewhere that if it is about to submit a share and sees it is stale, it won't submit it. Something like that. And it makes sense, why submit shares you know are stale. I'll probably put something like this in the BitMinter program soon.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 26, 2011, 09:20:39 PM

I thought slush's pool didn't even have long polling? Or maybe it does now?

oops,  I used bitcoin.cz
Quote
I see in the screenshot that you had some longpoll (LP) messages, the latest at 19:54, then nothing all the way down to 21:39. This tells me long poll has failed. You do have some rejected shares over that timerange, and that's probably the places where longpoll should have been giving you new (non-stale) work.

Maybe you have a router that kills idle connections? You could look in its configuration if there is a setting for how long TCP connections are allowed to be idle before they get killed off. This is the reason I made the bitminter miner restart the longpoll connection every 5 minutes.

Cant find any such setting in my router. But Im using the same router with my main mining rig which has extremely few stales. Then again, maybe it is related to the speed.. if it takes the nvidia card so long to finish one share, maybe the connection times out where with my main rig it does not, as it never takes 5 minutes to complete a share with my 5850.
Quote
Perhaps I should kill long poll connections also from the server-side after 5 minutes? I am working on getting TCP keep-alive in there though, much better solution than restarting connections all the time.

For me its not worth bothering. But in the stats I see some with pretty slow machines (unless they turn them off frequently), perhaps you could check the stats and see if anyone is really suffering from many stales. As for how to solve it.. dont ask me :)



Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 27, 2011, 08:10:09 AM
Restarted the rat rig this morning, and again after a (short) while, its  not getting any shares confirmed:

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9841/screenshotbobbitcoin1.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/screenshotbobbitcoin1.png/)

Note this screenshot was taken after 10:00 am, so an hour and a half after the last confirmed share. It hasnt crashed or anything, MH rate is fluctuating, gpu load 100%, just not getting any accepted (or rejected) shares. Im confused.
Ill try another pool and see what happens. Maybe the nv card is buggered?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 27, 2011, 09:13:25 AM
my two bitminter rigs have 36000 works/89 rejects in 1 day and 3:49hrs/3 cards, this morning around 9 am i had 600(wasnt paying attention, just woke up) rejects on my guiminer, reset it and its been good all day


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 27, 2011, 09:20:36 AM
I pointed my rat rig to bitcoin.cz pool, and got some results that may shed more light on it, as for some reason its more verbose.:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5348/selection003l.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/selection003l.png/)

It does get disconnected, but reconnects with the next block? Since that pool is much larger than bitminter,  that happens every x minutes as compared to every x days on bitminter, so it keeps working. Not sure. The last disconnection seems have been fixed without a change in block.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 27, 2011, 11:47:46 AM
Note this screenshot was taken after 10:00 am, so an hour and a half after the last confirmed share. It hasnt crashed or anything, MH rate is fluctuating, gpu load 100%, just not getting any accepted (or rejected) shares. Im confused.
Ill try another pool and see what happens. Maybe the nv card is buggered?

Yes, something is seriously wrong there. What amazes me is that it keeps working doing hashes all this time, but no accepted or rejected shares. And also no news from long polling.

On one machine I am running a GeForce 9400 GT at 3 MH/s with the bitminter miner and everything works fine. So it's not because your card is slow - this one is only 10% of your speed and still works. ;)

I am confused with this too. I guess bitcoin.cz must be doing something different, that keeps Phoenix happy. I just wish I could reproduce the problem, then I could find a way to fix it. Phoenix runs just fine on my main mining machine. Well, maybe I should try it with the old GeForce.



Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 27, 2011, 03:26:21 PM
Dont break your head over it. It seems to be some problem on my side. Hours later, Bitcoin.cz also stopped accepting or rejecting shares. Last share accepted was 3 or 4 hours ago, ever since I do get messages about new blocks, I get the MH rate, but its stuck on 6 accepted shares. No idea whats causing it is, but I suspect it will be solved by switching to an AMD card and diablo.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 28, 2011, 06:41:52 AM
wtf is going on with the price?  i might have to shut down......


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 28, 2011, 07:02:13 AM
wtf is going on with the price?  i might have to shut down......

As a result, difficulty is going down too. I just keep mining, no matter the price. The way I see it, either bitcoin takes off in the next years, and Id bang my head against the wall for not mining now, or they dont, and Id have lost, frankly, not much. That the price is low, and the difficulty dropping accordingly makes it a great time to mine. Yes, its speculative, not that different from buying coins, but where is the fun in that ;). Besides, for me prices would have to drop quite a bit still to make it not operationally profitable even at the current difficulty. Its still cheaper than buying coins.


Title: Re: New hop-proof payment system
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on September 28, 2011, 04:31:09 PM
But you made equally pointless to mine with your pool for part-time miners like me :-(
Good bye

... Whenever new coins are minted, they are divided between contributing members proportionally to the total score each member has within the last 10 completed shifts. You can see the completed shifts at https://bitminter.com/shifts (https://bitminter.com/shifts).

The purpose of this switch is to make pool hopping pointless, thereby stabilizing payouts for 24/7 miners.


Title: Re: New hop-proof payment system
Post by: P4man on September 28, 2011, 04:34:35 PM
But you made equally pointless to mine with your pool for part-time miners like me :-(

I kinda doubt it would make a difference. The average of the last 10 shifts.. a shift is taking over 8 hours. So its your average contribution over the last 80 hours. Unless by part time you mean you turn the rig on once every two weeks, I dont see the problem.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on September 28, 2011, 05:06:52 PM
My puters are up about 12-16 hours per day. So maybe 53 hours every 80. In any case I would be underpaid in comparison to any other pool with regular proportional payment.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 28, 2011, 05:20:27 PM
My puters are up about 12-16 hours per day. So maybe 53 hours every 80. In any case I would be underpaid in comparison to any other pool with regular proportional payment.

I dont see why.  It shouldnt make any difference.  The average of the last 80 hours wont be different from the past 24h. So your payment wouldnt change either.
In fact, you will likely get underpaid in any  pool that does not use PPLNS, because those few pools that still havent adopted it, attract all the pool hoppers, and pool hoppers gain a disproportionate amount of the payouts (which means, you lose).


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on September 28, 2011, 06:01:04 PM
OK, you convinced me. I'll keep testing Bitminter a few days more, even if I suspect that with a so low Hashrate it tends to be very unlucky most of the time (BTW: how about a measure of the pool's luck in the statistics?). On the other hand, I love the app and the interface.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 28, 2011, 06:17:02 PM
even if I suspect that with a so low Hashrate it tends to be very unlucky most of the time

That doesnt make sense :). A low combined hashrate does lead to larger variability, but statistically that has equal chances of working out in your favor or against it. In the long run, the average will not be different from anyone else.

 (BTW: how about a measure of the pool's luck in the statistics?).

Look here:
https://bitminter.com/blocks

Its the CDF that is what you are looking for.  Under 50% is more than average lucky, more than 50% is unlucky.



Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 28, 2011, 06:40:00 PM
Look here:
https://bitminter.com/blocks

Its the CDF that is what you are looking for.  Under 50% is more than average lucky, more than 50% is unlucky.

Yeah, and as we can see there we aren't always unlucky. :) The problem was that during the nice lucky period when bitcoins were rolling in quickly, pool hoppers came and took a big share of them. You can see how the hashrate increased. When the lucky streak ended and we got some bad luck, they all left, and hashrate went back down.

This is what happens with a proportional pool. Pool hoppers take the big money from lucky rounds, and consistent miners that push the pool forward and help finish the unlucky rounds are left with the scraps.

I had to change the reward system to one that is more fair to the people who really support this pool. The average payout will now be higher than before for everyone except pool hoppers.

PPLNS does have some variance though. Sometimes a proof of work is paid 2 or even 3 times when lucky, and when unlucky it may not get paid at all. Still, if you mine some hours every day I think this will even itself out.

wtf is going on with the price?  i might have to shut down......

Yes, or maybe buy some bitcoins. The question is... will it go back up, or continue down?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on September 28, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
You know what happens to us in the long run, don't you?  :)

In the long run, the average will not be different from anyone else.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 28, 2011, 07:19:55 PM
i did leave, when the pool hoppers were here. and without the dollar swings on the exchange, its getting harder to make coins that way too.  i dont have the time to sit and watch prices.  its also frustrating watching people sell 1 coin or .50 coin and take the sell price thats offered(should not suggest a price). should be  a min of at least 5 coins to sell, nothing less(im in canada, i use virtex) 

p4man is there a FAQ on using the markets?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on September 28, 2011, 09:39:45 PM
for people with nvidia cards, i downloaded the new driver 285.38, i was using 270 because i was crashing lots with the other drivers, im getting +9 mhash more with this driver and havent crashed.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 29, 2011, 07:21:30 AM
for people with nvidia cards, i downloaded the new driver 285.38, i was using 270 because i was crashing lots with the other drivers, im getting +9 mhash more with this driver and havent crashed.

Not even sure what version of the drivers Im using, whatever is nvidia-current on ubuntu. But my 8800 has been working stably for a day now, using phoenix and connected to bitminter's pool. 

I think my problem was related to a little utility I downloaded to manage nvidia fan speeds when running headless on ubuntu; nvidia-settings requires a running x-server, and X wont start without a monitor. (Much as I appreciate's nvidia's usual level of support for linux, its pretty lame their smi command line utilities only work with quadro's and tesla's).

Regardless, another 5850 just arrived 5 minutes ago and the 8800 will soon be relegated to its previous role of being spare part.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Knighty on September 30, 2011, 07:39:03 AM
Been running on the pool about two weeks now, have a constant 750 Mhash going towards it and another 400 at night.

Using CGMiner and I have about a 0.02% rejected rate, fantastic pool!

Now if only we could get some big operators to get us our blocks faster :D


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 30, 2011, 11:07:43 AM
Yep; its a great pool, great tools and stats, and bonus coins on top of that. Now if only we'd have some more luck :)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on September 30, 2011, 03:14:56 PM
We have 800 members, but only 50 mining at a time. Start mining, you lazy bums! :D


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on September 30, 2011, 07:43:04 PM
Yes, we are almost in the 5th day without finding a tiny block. Please come and help us to end this round of doom (before we die of hunger).


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on September 30, 2011, 08:53:49 PM
Does anyone know how to overclock a non reference 5850 beyond 775 Mhz on linux? Its an MSI twin frozr II. I flashed the bios of my 5850 reference card which unlocked all speeds, but I havent found a bios for this one...


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 01, 2011, 10:02:50 AM
I believe there is a bug in the stats.
When you click statistics -> shift, the number of proofs appears to based on just one worker.
Yesterday I brought a second machine online, and the stats there have not really budged:


http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8036/selection007r.png



Note that for at least for the duration of the last shift, those 2 machines where running, both equal machines.

I created two new workers at that time, to compare bitminter to diablo, and in the my account page, I do see all shares, and it corresponds to what my miner apps report:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2643/selection008g.png


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 01, 2011, 03:00:49 PM
Nothing wrong there, the work is just spread out over more than one shift.

Here's the work from those 2 workers by shift:
 shift     | worker       | proofs
--------+------------+------
current  |  bitminterp4|  191
       65 |  diablocore2|  431
       65 |  bitminterp4| 1525
       64 |  diablocore2| 1455
       64 |  bitminterp4| 1518
       63 |  bitminterp4| 1196
       63 |  diablocore2| 1191

And here is the work by block:
 block  | worker        | proofs
-------+------------+------
current | diablocore2| 3077
current | bitminterp4| 4430


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 01, 2011, 03:03:49 PM
@DrHaribo: Can i use two computers on the same miner (worker) or do i have to create a new one for every machine ?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 01, 2011, 03:24:19 PM
It's OK to run multiple computers using the same worker account.

Maybe in the future I will put in some limitation to discourage botnet miners. But I'll let you know in advance if that happens.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 01, 2011, 03:46:42 PM
Ok, thanks for the information !


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 01, 2011, 04:06:26 PM
Nothing wrong there, the work is just spread out over more than one shift.

Here's the work from those 2 workers by shift:
 shift     | worker       | proofs
--------+------------+------
current  |  bitminterp4|  191
       65 |  diablocore2|  431
       65 |  bitminterp4| 1525
       64 |  diablocore2| 1455
       64 |  bitminterp4| 1518
       63 |  bitminterp4| 1196
       63 |  diablocore2| 1191

And here is the work by block:
 block  | worker        | proofs
-------+------------+------
current | diablocore2| 3077
current | bitminterp4| 4430


If I got the UTC conversion right, shift 64 is the first full shift where i had both machines mining nonstop. Seems kinda surprising Im barely getting more proofs than I got previously with just one machine. But I have been creating and deleting workers a fair bit, you sure that doesnt delete my "proofs"?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 01, 2011, 08:04:15 PM
If I got the UTC conversion right, shift 64 is the first full shift where i had both machines mining nonstop. Seems kinda surprising Im barely getting more proofs than I got previously with just one machine. But I have been creating and deleting workers a fair bit, you sure that doesnt delete my "proofs"?

You can see they produced more proofs of work in shift 64 than in shift 63. Nothing is ever deleted from the database. Workers are just marked as deleted if you "delete" them on the website.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 01, 2011, 08:22:21 PM
You can see they produced more proofs of work in shift 64 than in shift 63.

In  shift 63 (and the ones before) both machines were offline for some time, so thats not surprising. If I look further back, to 56, 51 etc, I got ~2200-2400 proofs, with just one machine (technically 1.1 machines if you count the nvidia rig). With 2 now Im getting no more than ~2700-2900. Perhaps more telling,  "my score", so compared to the rest of the pool, has not really changed, despite having twice the hashrate and the pools hashrate not having changed all that much.

Anyway, you're probably right, but just to be sure, Ive put both machines on the same worker now :)

Quote
Nothing is ever deleted from the database. Workers are just marked as deleted if you "delete" them on the website.

good :)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 02, 2011, 09:12:37 AM
Are you taking into account the changes in the total pool hash rate?

I've had a steady hashrate over the last 10 shifts, but since the total hashrate has gone up, the shifts go by faster and I have fewer shares per shift as a result..


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 02, 2011, 09:31:43 AM
Are you taking into account the changes in the total pool hash rate?

I've had a steady hashrate over the last 10 shifts, but since the total hashrate has gone up, the shifts go by faster and I have fewer shares per shift as a result..
Good point. Seems like the single card results I was looking at, indeed the pools  hash rate was substantially lower. I was looking mostly at the "your score" column, but clearly my score goes down as hashrate goes up, hence no doubling :). I guess Ill have to add a third card :D

Cant wait for our luck to turn though. Seems like we are headed to another 90+% CDF


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 02, 2011, 11:21:20 AM
Isn't there some possibility that there's a bug in the miner server code that could be causing it to "miss" solutions to the block? It's just VERY unlikely that we could be consistently hitting either 90+% or 20-% CDF, which I'd imagine should settle somewhere around 50%. Quite frankly, my mining is turning into a complete waste of time sitting in this pool that's solving no blocks (and when it does, I get a paltry little table-scrap share for how long I've sat mining it)...

Bluntly, it's getting just really fucking frustrating seeing that nobody's acknowledged the possibility, investigated, nor explained the absurdly low block-finds in this pool...


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 02, 2011, 11:57:39 AM
Unless the pool's hashrate goes up substantially, I fear that mining here is going to be a losing proposition like buying lotto tickets.
 "Long term" is late, when you mine for a week for nuthin.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 02, 2011, 12:14:35 PM
Isn't there some possibility that there's a bug in the miner server code that could be causing it to "miss" solutions to the block? It's just VERY unlikely that we could be consistently hitting either 90+% or 20-% CDF, which I'd imagine should settle somewhere around 50%. Quite frankly, my mining is turning into a complete waste of time sitting in this pool that's solving no blocks (and when it does, I get a paltry little table-scrap share for how long I've sat mining it)...

Bluntly, it's getting just really fucking frustrating seeing that nobody's acknowledged the possibility, investigated, nor explained the absurdly low block-finds in this pool...

I feel you pain, and shared your concern. But then I did the math. If I average all the CDFs so far, I get 49.15%. If anything, so far this pool has on average been "lucky". Just not lately :).

I admit having been tempted to move at least one machine to a larger pool to get some consistency, but then I know for sure, after I did that, the next blocks on bitminter will have like 15 CDF and Ill bang my head against the wall. Also, joining a larger pool does give you consistency, but lets not kid ourselves, the daily or even weekly payout from one or two machines is still ridiculously low. Its only somewhat tangible if you look at it over many months, and in that sense, the current dry spell is insignificant. So Im keeping the faith, the next 5 blocks will be found within a week, I can feel it :D.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 02, 2011, 12:18:39 PM
Also, in 4 or 5 days ( I think) difficulty is most likely going to drop again significantly:
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png

so seeing miners leave in droves makes me happy :)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 02, 2011, 12:58:16 PM
As P4man said, with blocks 1 through 18 we have on average been slightly lucky. After the current block the average will be slightly unlucky. We are staying pretty close to 50% CDF on average.

The unlucky blocks are very frustrating in a pool with low hashrate. That's why many left this pool and the hashrate stayed relatively low. We now have 807 members, and obviously they are not all mining here now. I think the hashrate is the biggest reason for that.

I strongly doubt there are any bugs with building blocks. When the pool server gets its hands on a proof of work that can create a block, it logs that fact immediately. The last such message in the logs was when block #18 was created. Also, an average CDF around 50% indicates everything is fine.

It helps a bit that our pool hashrate is going up while the difficulty (and hashrate of other pools) goes down.

There are several plans lined up to improve the pool and increase the hashrate. But they all require some work (programming), so it will take time. But trust me, I'm doing my best. I hope people won't leave because others left. Once that ball starts rolling we all know where it ends. I very much appreciate everyone who are mining here today. Better times are ahead.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 02, 2011, 02:30:42 PM
DrHaribo,

You may want to reconsider your promotion. I obviously cant speak for anyone but myself, but if Im mining here, its not because of the 6-11% more bitcoins. Its because I like the software, because I like diversity in pools (2 or 3 mega pools is a bad thing for bitcoin IMO), and frankly because you seem like a nice guy.

If others are like me, they would rather see the bitcoins you are spending to attract some bigger miners and increase our hashrate, thereby reduce the volatility. The ~8% seems insiginificant compared to the volatility (even though in the long run it obviously should pay off).

Just thinking, maybe you should offer some fixed bitcoins to any new miner joining the pool for say a month. Like 1BTC per GH mining a month.  If that gets you 50GH extra even if just for a month (and yes, cost you 50BTC), it might be enough to lure in others too that are now scared away by the volatility.

As far as Im concerned, use my BTC promotion for such a goal. Ill even toss in a few bitcoins of my own.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 02, 2011, 06:29:18 PM
Another thought.. we need a banner/signature. Seems like most posters in this thread dont have on, we might as well advertise our pool.
Do we have any graphic talent reading this?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 02, 2011, 06:41:37 PM
I think a dynamic signature graphic would be more effective.

i.e. "I am earning a 5% bonus on Bitminer @ 2186 MH/s and you can too!"  ;D


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 03, 2011, 06:40:35 AM
Good idea.

[sarcasm]
How about" I havent earned anything for the the last  7d 10H 42 minutes on bitminter. And so can you"[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, nice to see Fefox in that top 10. 9HG/s, wow. Welcome aboard!.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 03, 2011, 08:59:37 AM
First attempt:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5079/bitminterbanner.png


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 03, 2011, 01:05:44 PM
Good idea.

[sarcasm]
How about" I havent earned anything for the the last  7d 10H 42 minutes on bitminter. And so can you"[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, nice to see Fefox in that top 10. 9HG/s, wow. Welcome aboard!.

Where do you see a top 10.

Also glad to get some more "big guns".  Pushing 47GH/s this morning.  That should mean on average a block every 2 days.  If we can get up to 100GH it would really take the sting out of this long blocks.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 03, 2011, 02:22:29 PM
Where do you see a top 10.

homepage, then click live stats at the top.


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 03, 2011, 03:05:40 PM
homepage, then click live stats at the top.

Woot.  #5.  Kinda cool.  In most pools 2GH doesn't get you in the top 50. 
Might make that 6GH soon, but not ready to move all my other rigs over just yet.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 03, 2011, 05:38:35 PM
Chance that we find one or more blocks within a 24-hour period:

With 40 Ghps: 38%
With 50 Ghps: 45%
With 60 Ghps: 51%
With 80 Ghps: 61%
With 100 Ghps: 70%
With 150 Ghps: 83%
With 200 Ghps: 91%

Chance to find nothing for 7 days:
With 30 Ghps: 8.2%
With 40 Ghps: 3.6%
With 50 Ghps: 1.5%
With 60 Ghps: 0.7%

(At the current difficulty)

P4man, nice looking banner :) Guess you won't mind if I use it in my signature here?

I will make dynamic sigs later showing GH/s and such... it's on my list ;)


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 03, 2011, 06:02:43 PM
I think a dynamic signature graphic would be more effective.

i.e. "I am earning a 5% bonus on Bitminer @ 2186 MH/s and you can too!"  ;D

Maybe you could mix the signature and the promotion in an affiliation system, where for example if the apportion from new subscribers under an affiliate is, let's say >10 GHs per week, your affiliate gains 1 BTC. (So your pool would be spammed to the frontiers of the Internets).

BTW: could the CDF in the statistics be >100%??? Or, what are the chances that we could mine forever for nothing at this rate?


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 03, 2011, 06:13:18 PM
Maybe you could mix the signature and the promotion in an affiliation system, where for example if the apportion from new subscribers under an affiliate is, let's say >10 GHs per week, your affiliate gains 1 BTC. (So your pool would be spammed to the frontiers of the Internets).

Yes, it's something to think about. But I don't want to force users to donate a percentage of their income to the person who recruited them. And I couldn't afford to pay this out of my own money for long. I'll give it some thought, though.

BTW: could the CDF in the statistics be >100%??? Or, what are the chances that we could mine forever for nothing at this rate?

No, it will never be 100% certain that you create a block. It could even happen that DeepBit from now and 200 years into the future doesn't create a single block, even with 40% of the hashing power the whole way. It's just very very unlikely. CDF never gets to 100, it just goes to 99.99999999.. with more and more 9s ;)

The chance that we go 30 days without getting a block, at 47 Ghps is 0.000005% - I hope that won't happen ;)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 03, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
My previous pool has a monthly giveaway contest, where miners can win (ATI cards) even according to the new subscribers under their link:
http://www.bitcoinpool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272 (http://www.bitcoinpool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272)

I dunno how they finance this, maybe adsense on your site could help (like btcguild has).
Just trying to help with my 2 btcents...


Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 03, 2011, 06:53:49 PM
Or, what are the chances that we could mine forever for nothing at this rate?

Forever is an infinite amount of time.  Given our chance on each hash is not 0% then we can never mine forever without finding a block at this rate or any rate (infinity * anything other than 0 > 0)

Thus forever is a somewhat useless timeframe.  

With 40GH/s & current difficulty the odds of not finding a block in given amount of time:
1 week - 1 in 28
1 month - 1,606,584
1 year - 1 in 3,200,056,361,226,270,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (rounded)
etc

Simplified as time-frame increases the probability of remaining unlucky enough to avoid a block rapidly approaches 0.  Still there is always a non-zero chance of never finding another block (for this pool or any pool) it just quickly becomes a very small chance.



Title: Re: [~30 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 03, 2011, 07:03:50 PM
Or, what are the chances that we could mine forever for nothing at this rate?

Thus forever is a somewhat useless timeframe.  

With 40GH/s & current difficulty the odds of not finding a block in given amount of time:
1 week - 1 in 28
1 month - 1,606,584
1 year - 1 in 3,200,056,361,226,270,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (rounded)
etc

Thanks, I was sort of joking. But since we are already beyond the 1in28 ballpark one should not discard worse scenarios out of hand.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 03, 2011, 07:17:48 PM
 :o What kind of equipment are this (you) guys running at 8 GH/s ?. Looks like i have to rob an electronics store to keep up  ;)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 03, 2011, 07:54:34 PM

P4man, nice looking banner :) Guess you won't mind if I use it in my signature here?


Of course not, thats the whole idea, but its just a first draft, I was waiting for comments and suggestions. If you want anything changed let me know.
BTW, what font are using on the website for the Bitminter logo?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 03, 2011, 08:29:07 PM
My previous pool has a monthly giveaway contest, where miners can win (ATI cards) even according to the new subscribers under their link:
http://www.bitcoinpool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272 (http://www.bitcoinpool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272)

I dunno how they finance this, maybe adsense on your site could help (like btcguild has).
Just trying to help with my 2 btcents...

Very nice. I am thinking about some similar ideas, but with BTC prizes.

Of course not, thats the whole idea, but its just a first draft, I was waiting for comments and suggestions. If you want anything changed let me know.
BTW, what font are using on the website for the Bitminter logo?

The button could blend in better, otherwise I think it's great. I like the background. Maybe you could make one that is not quite as tall and without text/button on, for dynamic text showing a user's speed? Or even the same background, just less tall. Then I can code a personal banner for each user.

The logo font is Century Schoolbook L Bold Italic, size 45, for "BitMinter", and FreeSerif Bold size 20 for "Bitcoin minting made easy". Thrown together with Gimp. Not a program I am skilled with using. :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 04, 2011, 07:57:03 AM
Here is a slightly revised generic banner (correct fonts, more readable, smoothed the start button border):

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2064/bitmintergeneric.png

(edit: there is a little artifact near the S of webstart, not sure where that comes from but ill fix that).



here is a sample for a normal sized personalised banner with MH/s (you want anything else on there?):

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1929/bitminterspeedo.png




Here is slimmed down version. I also removed shadows as I think that may be difficult for you to generate:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1480/bitminternarrow.png

Ill wait for feedback, make any requested changes and then Ill mail you the templates.
edit: Ill be on IRC most of the day.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 04, 2011, 01:17:40 PM
Nice designs P4Man.  I like em.  While you guys get a finalized version done I will start advertising with these prototypes.

.... and for the love of God prime numbers can this block of doom ever end?  ???

For anyone who needs help w/ forum codes.  This will display image plus promo line and make everything a link.  Just add it to your signature.
Code:
[url=http://bitminter.com/][img]http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2064/bitmintergeneric.png[/img][/url]
150 BTC promotion: +5% pay on all work up to our 60th block * [url=http://bitminter.com/]bitminter.com[/url]




Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 04, 2011, 04:13:35 PM
I know pool owner is likely busy with other things but adding even a simple API (with public & private stats) would be useful.

http://www.btc-poolwatch.com/poolstats

@ ~47GH BitMinter would be the 14th largest pool.  Some nice free advertising.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 04, 2011, 04:49:36 PM
Nice looking banners! :)

I think "One-click miner" might be better than "Java WebStart" since a lot of users won't know what that is.

Also, the slim version would probably look better with shadows on "BitMinter". Although there may not be room? It should be easy to get shadows on the numbers as well by printing the text twice, first in black, then in white. Won't be as nice as the shadows you put on there, but hopefully it should look ok. If it doesn't, maybe I can try some sort of smoothing on the black (shadow) text.

Personalized banner with a meter with actual number on it is a great idea! :)

I know pool owner is likely busy with other things but adding even a simple API (with public & private stats) would be useful.

http://www.btc-poolwatch.com/poolstats

@ ~47GH BitMinter would be the 14th largest pool.  Some nice free advertising.

Pool stats are available at http://bitminter.com/api/pool/stats - it's just not documented anywhere. ;) Adding individual miner stats is on my TODO list.

BTW, a couple users are sometimes submitting proofs of work based on work data the pool has never seen before. Those proofs will be rejected and you'll be wasting your hashing power. If you are using software that connects to multiple pools it may have bugs causing it to grab work from pool A and send the resulting proofs of work to pool B. I asked ckolivas and this should not be a problem with cgminer. Any other multi-pool software worth checking?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 04, 2011, 04:56:02 PM
Pool stats are available at http://bitminter.com/api/pool/stats - it's just not documented anywhere. ;) Adding individual miner stats is on my TODO list.

Nice.  Whenever you do get them setup drop a line to BTCWatch.  My understanding is the only requirement to be included in the list is a public & private (key based) API for the pool.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 04, 2011, 05:34:04 PM
Nice looking banners! :)

I think "One-click miner" might be better than "Java WebStart" since a lot of users won't know what that is.

Think you're right. Will do first thing tomorrow

Quote
Also, the slim version would probably look better with shadows on "BitMinter". Although there may not be room? It should be easy to get shadows on the numbers as well by printing the text twice, first in black, then in white. Won't be as nice as the shadows you put on there, but hopefully it should look ok. If it doesn't, maybe I can try some sort of smoothing on the black (shadow) text.

Its not pretty to have shadow on one side an no shadow on the other. I dont know what you will use to generate the text, but does it support blur? Even if it does, test it because it might cause huge cpu load to constantly generate dynamic images with blur filter. Perhaps its best we use hard shadows. two pixel offset to the right, two pixels to below, pure black If you can do transparency, set it to 80. If you cant do transparancy, let me know. As above, Ill make the template probably tomorrow. Its made in GIMP, so Ill send you the source file if you need any minor editing. Ill send you the full size background as well if I can still find it, should you want to use it on the site. I grabbed it off the web, but it was free to use, no license.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 05, 2011, 08:32:24 AM
Updated generic banner PNG:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8317/bitmintergeneric2.png

Generic banner and speedo banner GIMP template:
http://ubuntuone.com/4mRHDJ8slKpNl4sZaQ46D3

(note: just hide the appropriate layer to get a generic banner or with speedo).

Slim banner GIMP template:
http://ubuntuone.com/5Ar7MbcegY1mkafS2Bf5Nj

(note: shadows are 2 pixel offset right + bottom, 80% transparency). Used the same Century Schoolbook font as you did on the website, 30 size


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 05, 2011, 03:51:14 PM
"Myvolition", I love you :D


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 05, 2011, 04:24:02 PM
"Myvolition", I love you :D

+1 on that.  Thanks for ending that block-o-doom!


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 05, 2011, 04:40:09 PM
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3678/tooslow.png

Started noticing "too slow" errors periodically (16 in last 12 hours).  I rarely see them on Bitminter (one reason I am trying it out w/ 2GH/s).  Any one else notice some "too slow" messages?

Doesn't seem to be affecting my stales (yet).  Solid 0.05% stale rate.  I need a more powerful radiator.  GPU temps are up to 61C (35 over ambient).  I think if I had a larger radiator I could get another 200MH (maybe 300MH) out of this rig.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 05, 2011, 05:26:55 PM
Thanks for ending that block-o-doom!

Was a tough one  ;)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 05, 2011, 05:40:10 PM
And another one! Let the good times roll :)

@deathandtaxes
I have noticed with phoenix and diablo I regularly get time out messages and my stales are much higher than bitminter. On the order of 1% or more sometimes (compared to basically nothing for bitminter). No idea if that is the same problem or not.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 05, 2011, 06:53:26 PM
Impressive numbers you got there.  Guessing you're running 5870s?  Or maybe 5970s (judging by the voltage)?

They're stable at 200mhz memory?

Yeah it doesn't seem to mind 200MHz mem freq.  They are 3x watercooled 5970s (6 total GPU).  GPU #4 is hooked up to monitors (dual 24) so I have it set to dynamic the others are intensity 8. cgminer seems to do a good job of keeping the whole thing solid.  One bad thing is I can't overvolt through cgminer so I have to use shitty afterburner (wish I can get down to single app).

Here is my execution string:
Code:
c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe /C start /affinity 8 /d c:\bitcoin\cgminer\ c:\bitcoin\cgminer\cgminer.exe -o mint.bitminter.com:8332 -u DeathAndTaxes_TiredMiner -p NotMyPassword -I 8,8,8,8,d,8 --gpu-engine 925 --gpu-memclock 200

I think I can get it to 1000MHz or close to it as I have full coverage waterblocks (cools VRMs also).  That should be close to 2.7GH/s.  The only thing is my water temp is up to 61C (~30C over ambient) and traditionally with watercooling we shoot for <15C temp rise.  Then again mining may be different.   The workload on the system is different than extreme overclocking for gaming.   Just 61C water temp is outside my comfort zone.  I am contemplating buying a larger (or second) radiator. 


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 05, 2011, 06:57:38 PM
Phew, I could breathe a sigh of relief when that block ended. Nice work, Myvolition !

And nice work on the banners, P4man. I will get personalized banners working soon :)

They are 3x watercooled 5970s (6 total GPU).

Sweet! :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 05, 2011, 07:02:49 PM
Irony of irony, the blocks finally finish up, just as we get the first rain of the ending summer...

...

... And as many of you know, I run my mining rig outside.

This morning, I realize that rain is wet and computers don't like being wet.

Time to test the limits of Sapphire's warranty service... :(

edit: heh heh, watercooling. heh. heh.  ::)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 05, 2011, 07:21:41 PM
Irony of irony, the blocks finally finish up, just as we get the first rain of the ending summer...

...

... And as many of you know, I run my mining rig outside.

This morning, I realize that rain is wet and computers don't like being wet.

Time to test the limits of Sapphire's warranty service... :(

edit: heh heh, watercooling. heh. heh.  ::)

 ???
Oh man. Sorry to hear.. but really, outside?
Anyway, you sure its not the powersupply that shorted? Over the years Ive done some stupid things with PCs, like dropping screwdrivers into a running rig or putting naked motherboards on metal boxes and powering them on and that sort of stuff, but somehow I never permanently damaged anything that way.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 05, 2011, 07:51:11 PM
Can you tell me what waterblock you use?

925mhz at stock voltage, stable, is awesome.  If btc value goes back up I'm going to have to invest in watercooling my 'lazy' 5970s

It isn't stock voltage.  I am running 1.1625V right now.  Likely I can bring that down but I am moving up in 20MHz steps until I hit max freq and then I will drop voltage until I find min voltage.  The 5970s are "hardy" they can handle 1.625V.

The waterblock is the cheapest full block I could find for 5970.  If I wanted to drop some money I would get an EK block but I was looking to build the cheapest possible system.  I plan to write up a little guide/post about my adventures in watercooled mining using cheapest components I could find.   ;D
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10069/ex-blc-705/Danger_Den_DD-5970_ATI_5970_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_GPU-6899.html?tl=g30c309s1072

There is really no reason to watercool without a full coverage block because the VRM becomes the bottleneck.
There is really no reason to watercool any card except the 5970, 6990, and someday 7990 because their high price and the fact that you can cool 2 GPU is required to bring the cost per MH down to a reasonable level.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 05, 2011, 07:51:28 PM

They are 3x watercooled 5970s (6 total GPU).

Sweet! :)

It would not be way more cheaper, easy and effective a "full immersion" oil cooling system? I am tempted to try a ghetto one if I find an almost free aquarium and car radiator.

Re: "925mhz at stock voltage, stable, is awesome."
Awesomely low? My 5870 mines at 970/330 at stock voltage on air cooling.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 05, 2011, 07:56:07 PM

They are 3x watercooled 5970s (6 total GPU).

Sweet! :)

It would not be way more cheaper, easy and effective a "full immersion" oil cooling system? I am tempted to try a ghetto one if I find an almost free aquarium and car radiator.

Ive looked in to that, for fun more than anything. Its not a good idea. Oil has poor themal conductivity, mineral oil isnt all that cheap,  and you still need to circulate and cool the oil; plus you have to replace the oil (or filter it or both) as particles dissolve in them. It looks cool, but its not very cost efficient and even less efficient to achieve low temperatures. And its a nightmare for maintenance.

Im still tempted to build an "aquarium" file server just for the looks, complete with air bubbler and plastic plants or even fish :D, but for mining or main PCs, nope.

edit: for falconfour it might be a good idea though. No drama when it starts raining :D


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 05, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
It would not (sic) be way more cheaper, easy and effective a "full immersion" oil cooling system? I am tempted to try a ghetto one if I find an almost free aquarium and car radiator.

That is a solution but it isn't as cheap or easy as you think.
1) You need to use mineral oil unless you want a maintenance nightmare and gallons of mineral oil isn't cheap (high grade stuff is $15/gallon and the cheap stuff has enough impurities to conduct electricity).
2) Mineral oil has lower thermal conductivity than water so you will need a lot of it and will need to circulate it faster than water.
3) Mineral oil has higher viscoscity so that combined with #2 mean you will need a powerful pump and that isn't cheap.
4) You will need to ensure you design proper baffles so you get even circulation otherwise hotspots will develop.
5) You will need to filter the oil.  Contaminants will increase electrical conductivity and without maintenance will eventually cause a short.

If you have a free aquarium and car radiator you can reduce the cost but getting car radiator clean enough to avoid contaminating your oil isn't that easy.  It doesn't take much contamination to get to a point where you get a short.  Remember when the immersion fluid becomes conductive you likely are looking at a total loss.  MB + powersupply + RAM + multiple GPU = $$$$.  It is something I would like to try someday but it isn't that cheap or easy.

Quote
Awesomely low? My 5870 mines at 970/330 at stock voltage on air cooling.

The advantage of water cooling is reduced noise, more control over the heat, and higher density.  8 of my rigs are open air in the garage where they create a nice bit of noise.

Getting a single card to high clock is much easier than then getting 6 GPU inside a closed case to a high clock.  The 3x5970 is my workstation in my office inside a closed case with less noise than a single small sized oscillating room fan.  The radiator is mounted in the window to dump heat outside and when it gets colder I will dump heat inside instead.  Water cooling does all that with 60C core temps (hopefully closer to 40C if I get a larger radiator).

Nothing beats the cost of air cooling.  Period.  If you simply want max power at lowest possible price regardless of temps, noise, or space then you should air cool. Some of us for reasons due to wives, kids, pets, limited space, interest in water cooling look for a more elegant solution to the extreme thermal loads caused by 24/7 mining.

Still I don't want to derail this thead so I will leave it at that.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 05, 2011, 08:44:08 PM
1) Yes. I wonder if some kind of motor oil would work too. It should be way cheaper than vaseline oil.
2) ?
3) Maybe not. There are tolerances. I use to run my diesel car on a mix of diesel and vegoil. I shouldn't and could't, according the instruction manual, but I already made 50,000 Km on it. Moreover, oil viscosity is a function of its temperature (the higher the temp, the less its viscosity).
4) I would leave the fans in. I've seen that they work in the oil, even if at much slower speed. Then there is the pump.
5) I think that you refer to distilled water (where microscopic amounts of contaminants make it counductive). I never heard of this problem about oil cooling.




That is a solution but it isn't as cheap or easy as you think.
1) You need to use mineral oil unless you want a maintenance nightmare and gallons of mineral oil isn't cheap.
2) Mineral oil has lower thermal conductivity than water so you will need a lot of it.
3) Mineral oil has higher viscoscity so you will need a powerful pump and that isn't cheap
4) You will need to ensure you design proper baffles so you get even circulation otherwise hotspots will develop
5) You will need to filter the oil.  Contaminants will increase electrical conductivity and without maintenance will eventually cause a short.

If you have a free aquarium and car radiator you can reduce the cost but getting car radiator clean enough to avoid contaminating your oil isn't that easy.  High grade mineral oil runs ~$15 a gallon and you are going to need at least 10 gallons more likely 20 gallons (remember not just the aquarium but the radiator and cooling lines also).


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 05, 2011, 08:57:40 PM
Arrg I can't help myself.

Come on even the lowest viscosity oil has much higher viscosity than water.   Simple test.  Pour some 0W-20 oil into a bowl.  Now pour some water.  The difference in viscosity is immediately obvious even to the eye.    While oil thins at high temps we are looking for high temps.  Oil @ 50C is pretty much the same as oil at room temp.  

Thermal conductivity is how efficiently the substance transfers heat.  Water has very high thermal conductivity (there are very few low cost substances w/ higher thermal conductivity).  There is a reason why your car doesn't use motor oil in the radiator.  Does mean it won't work it simply means you need more fluid to remove the same amount of thermal energy.  More fluid means not only more fluid to purchase but higher flow rate which means a more powerful pump.  To get the kind of flow you need with a fluid as thick as even low viscosity oil is a serious pump.

Contaminants are contaminants.  It is what makes a material w/ low conductivity have higher conductivity.  It isn't something special about distilled water.  Contaminants can raise conductivity of the fluid (they can also lower it but we don't care about that). If the conductivity gets high enough you will have current flow between wires & circuits through the fluid = game over.  That can happen in any fluid.  The only way to protect against it is to use a) sealed clean system, b) replace fluid periodically, c) filter the fluid or more likely some combination. The nice thing about sealed liquid cooling is the conductivity of the coolant is the "last line of defense".  If there is no leak then no circuit is exposed so the level of conductivity is immaterial.  In immersion cooling there the circuits start out exposed by design.  

Look I am not saying it is impossible just that once you start getting down to details it isn't as easy or cheap as if first seems.  Ok I promise now I am done.  


To everyone else I return you to your interrupted thread already in progress.  :D Was nice to see that 3 hour block after that 9 day monster.

 


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 05, 2011, 09:20:33 PM
Its a good topic,  no need to change it :)

I read that motor oil would work, but Ive never seen anyone try it. To save money, the trick apparently is buy mineral oil thats used as a horse laxative (no joke) You can buy that in quantities of 5 liter and is not too expensive apparently.

All the other problems remain though, just like d&t explained. If you look at experiments with this, you will see temperatures really are not good, even for desktop usage. If you want to do any non trivial overclocking, the only way to make that remotely possible would be chilling the oil. But obviously that costs a pretty penny, in hardware and electricity again.

As for keeping the fans turning; how long do you think they will last if they encounter so much resistance, they barely spin at 10 rpm?

anyway, dont let us stop you from trying. By all means, make pictures. Its not because its a bad or unpractical idea that its no fun, and Id love to see it :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 06, 2011, 12:50:00 AM
Gahaha... OK, wow, what'd I start? :D

Nah, the card's fried. I only found out about the PC on my way out the door to work today, I quickly hauled the parts of the system inside (PC, cables, monitor) and set them on the living room floor, then yanked out the card and it was drenched... I waved the card around to dry it off, and could hear water hitting everything in its path. For that much water (rainwater, no less, filled with whoknowswhat crap) to be in/on something electronic, AND for the computer to have turned itself off, something seriously bad had to have happened.

Took the card to work, made sure it was completely dry, and tried it in another PC. The computer acted like there was no card in there at all... it just booted from the integrated graphics. Windows started, and it saw nothing either. Tried several things, cleaning the board of any residue or corrosion, looking over the whole board, and there were a few chips that looked like their leads had corroded somehow, they look like they were just eaten away. Very strange. No chips looked "popped" or anything, just eaten away a bit, somehow.

When I got home, I took a second look at the PC itself. I don't dare plug it in yet - it was still totally soaking wet. Earlier, when I brought it inside, I held it with the open side downward to "drain" it... water just poured out. Probably not good for the carpet, but fuck it. But, yeah, it was soaked. And it still is kinda wet...

For a computer to actually shut off... think about it. If it BSODs, it either reboots or hangs at the BSOD. If it hangs, it just hangs. If it overheats, that's about the only time I've known a computer to shut down. This thing was *off*, and with that kind of rain, I couldn't imagine it actually running.

Yeah, it's pretty safe to say the card's toast. Probably even the computer, too. :/

edit: Can't keep a good falcon down.  8)
http://hostfile.org/thumbs/L_P1020562.jpg.png (http://hostfile.org/P1020562.jpg) http://hostfile.org/thumbs/L_P1020563.jpg.png (http://hostfile.org/P1020563.jpg) http://hostfile.org/thumbs/L_P1020564.jpg.png (http://hostfile.org/P1020564.jpg)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 06, 2011, 07:51:44 AM
Seems noone could reach the server between 07:01 and 07:19 UTC. Sorry about that. Looks like a network outage at the datacenter. Everything running smoothly again since 07:19.

I have to move to a different datacenter anyway, so I'll do that soon. Will let you guys know ahead of time, as that will mean a little down time.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: rTech on October 06, 2011, 09:39:23 AM
With latest beta:
Factory OC, XFX nvidia geforce 260 gtx (216 model) : Worksize 256 / Break interval 75 = 46/47mhash without any own overclocks.

Previously i had Guiminer/OpenCL with 43/44 mhash. So this 2-3mhash is quite positive for me :)

I know this nvidia card uses more electricity than it produces bitcents, but every hobby cost some money..

DrHaribo, thanks for making great tool, latest beta is rockin'


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 06, 2011, 06:46:30 PM

I know this nvidia card uses more electricity than it produces bitcents, but every hobby cost some money

Here in Switzerland it's almost impossible to mine with profit. But money and profit is not everything. I mine because i like the idea of bitcoin  8).


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on October 06, 2011, 09:48:46 PM
With latest beta:


I know this nvidia card uses more electricity than it produces bitcents, but every hobby cost some money


try telling my wife that!  I keep telling her, "well, I could go sit in the bar and drink all day!"


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 06, 2011, 10:31:25 PM
With your nVidia and the CPU-usage bug of OpenCL-over-CUDA, you should create a power profile and limit your CPU to 50%, which actually cuts the power consumption anywhere from 50% to 10% (50-90% savings). Really should try it.

Meanwhile, I love Amazon.
 
Quote
I'm so sorry about the problem you had with your item. I've placed a new order for you at no charge. Here are the details:
Shipping Speed: One-Day Shipping
Estimated Delivery Date: October 7
To return the defective item, first click the following link to print your return mailing label:
...
When you return the item, follow the instructions listed on the mailing label page.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 07, 2011, 01:26:58 AM
Oops sorry.  No that would cook the card, any card.  A typo, it should have been 1.1625V although I have it down to 1.148V now.  


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 07, 2011, 04:53:23 PM
ONe of my 5850s just died :/.  I guess my trouble keeping its temperature under control was related to it. Shame I just bought VRM cooler and what not for it. Anyone got a reference 5850 or 5870 for sale?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 07, 2011, 06:06:50 PM
DrHaribo, thanks for making great tool, latest beta is rockin'

Thank you, that's very kind of you, sir :)

Sorry to hear of your misfortunes, FalconFour and P4man. Looks like your box did contain awesome, though, Falcon :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 08, 2011, 03:28:17 AM
Well, the Amazonian gods did smile down upon my desk this morning, and upon it landed a subtle gift from the gods,
http://hostfile.org/thumbs/322430_2377250584625_1051431182_.jpg.png (http://hostfile.org/322430_2377250584625_1051431182_.jpg)
... a replacement. Free! Including return postage label, too. Sheesh. I almost feel bad.
...
* looks at water-filled PC *
...
Nap, don't feel bad anymore.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on October 08, 2011, 08:00:30 PM
is there anyway we can transfer our balance out faster, seems like it takes 10mins before it goes.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 09, 2011, 09:25:39 AM
is there anyway we can transfer our balance out faster, seems like it takes 10mins before it goes.

Payment (from BitMinter to your own bitcoin wallet) is once per hour, currently 10 minutes past the hour. Perhaps it would be less confusing if it was exactly on the hour? ;)

I am planning to add an "instant payout" button as well. But that will probably have to cost something to use. Alternatively, when I get a donation system implemented, if you donate over a certain percentage it could be free. I don't want to pay more of those 0.0005 BTC transaction fees than I have to. I'll need some income to balance out those expenses.

One thing I could do, probably without incurring more transaction fees than today, is to run payments also immediately when a block we made is confirmed.

So you get your bitcoins immediately when they are added to your account, if the payout threshold is low enough. And if you, at any time, change the threshold from above to below the current balance, you have to wait 60 minutes in the worst case.

I think I will also lower the default payout threshold set for new users from 1 BTC to 0.1 BTC or maybe even 0.01 BTC. I don't really like handling other people's money longer than I have to.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 09, 2011, 11:35:36 AM
Maybe you should look into figuring out how sites like dailybitcoins.org "collect a bunch of transactions together to minimize cost" (iirc) so they can send a lot of people bits and pieces of 0.005 BTC by the hundreds... I think it's possible to chunk things down in increments, and have, say, a group of 1 BTC payouts that each go to address ......, address ...., address ....., etc, then a 0.75 BTC chunk to address...., ....., ....., ....., and a 0.5 BTC chunk to ....., ...., ..., and a 0.25 BTC chunk to ....., ....., ...., which would be "payments in 0.25 BTC increments" and you would only (theoretically) have to pay 3 or 4 transaction fees for your custom transactions to multiple recipients. Then we could also lower the automatic payment threshold* since it would really nearly eliminate the transaction fees.
* rather, eliminate it, since it would be "in 0.25 BTC increments when each block is minted". Since people accumulate balances only when blocks are minted anyway :)

That's just based on the assumption that what sites like dailybitcoins.org do is possibly applicable to our scenario :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 09, 2011, 11:59:42 AM
I put these changes in right now, for higher and faster payments:

  • Pay out income from transaction fees - the pool now only keeps rounding errors. This goes for block #24 (next block we create) and up.
  • Use "half down" rounding. The last "bit dust" of income cannot always be split fairly among users. I think this is the most fair way without the pool losing money. 0.000000006 is rounded up, but 0.000000005 is rounded down, just like ...4. This leaves a tiny amount of income which is kept by the pool.
  • Make an extra payment run immediately after a block generated by the pool is confirmed
  • Run the scheduled hourly payments exactly on the hour


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 09, 2011, 12:25:12 PM
"collect a bunch of transactions together to minimize cost"

Yep, we already do that. That's why it is better to run payments every hour (and now on every confirmed block). If you run payments when a user clicks a button, then you can't batch transactions together and you run the risk of paying lots and lots of transaction fees. This is why a pool needs to be a little smart about an "instant payout" button.

An option would be to completely remove the minimum payout threshold and just pay out every user's complete balance every time a block is confirmed and money comes in.

Upside:
  • You get your money in your wallet sooner
  • The servers become a less profitable target for hackers. I can sleep well at night and not be responsible for (as much of) your money.

Downside:
  • The transaction history in your wallet (the bitcoin program or other wallet) becomes full of tiny transactions
  • Negative for the bitcoin system in general: when you next send money from your wallet, the transaction will consist of many sources, each of a tiny amount of bitcoins. This means bitcoin has to handle more large (in number of bytes) transactions. We will contribute to that 600+ megabyte blk0001.dat file growing on everyone's harddisk. :P

Any thoughts?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 09, 2011, 03:47:00 PM
DrHaribo,

"An option would be to completely remove the minimum payout threshold and just pay out every user's complete balance every time a block is confirmed and money comes in."

I like this option.  Makes it simple.  If the pool gets very large you may need to change it but currently I would assume (you can check records) most miners get > 0.1 per block reducing the number of tiny transactions.


A hybrid could work.  All miners are paid INSTANTLY (once block is confirmed) as long as the balance is >= 0.1 BTC.  Miners that earned less than 0.1 on the block will have reward rolled over till next block.


BTW.  Keep up the good work.  As a show of confidence I moved another rig (+ 2GH/s) to bitminter.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 09, 2011, 11:11:36 PM
A hybrid could work.  All miners are paid INSTANTLY (once block is confirmed) as long as the balance is >= 0.1 BTC.  Miners that earned less than 0.1 on the block will have reward rolled over till next block.

I guess this is a good middle-ground solution. And it's what you get currently if you set payout threshold to 0.1 BTC. I have now set that as default for new users.

BTW.  Keep up the good work.  As a show of confidence I moved another rig (+ 2GH/s) to bitminter.

Thanks, I appreciate it :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 10, 2011, 02:30:47 AM
BTW.  Keep up the good work.  As a show of confidence I moved another rig (+ 2GH/s) to bitminter.
http://smile.it.cx/sign538xt.gif (http://smile.it.cx)
Just wow... the fact that you can change the flow of the ocean just by having a power outage... gahaha. Wow.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on October 10, 2011, 08:52:54 AM
ya, no? I was just wondering because i just send them to the exchange and i think the deposit address is temp( i dont know how long its valid) just didnt want to send my coins nowhere, if that is even possible.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 10, 2011, 03:34:47 PM
Any plans to add merged mining?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 10, 2011, 04:26:00 PM
Any plans to add merged mining?

You guys want it?

I'm looking up info about it now.. what little is available.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 10, 2011, 07:11:52 PM
It would probably help draw more miners in, but please make it user selectable. I'd prefer to mine only BTC.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 10, 2011, 07:15:24 PM
It would probably help draw more miners in, but please make it user selectable. I'd prefer to mine only BTC.

Why would you want to do that?  I would say if you don't want the NMC simply donate them to the pool.

You understand that w/ merged mining the blockheader will already contains namecoin information.  If you find a nonce which meets namecoin's difficulty you would want the server to throw it away rather than publishing it.

Turning off merged mining won't make bitcoin mining faster it would simply mean throwing away rewards you have already earned (by not reporting namecoin hash to namecoin network).  If you don't want them why not give them to the pool operator to help improve the pool?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 10, 2011, 07:26:24 PM
Merged mining ftw ! Why not send results when the work is already done ?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 10, 2011, 07:27:35 PM
Perhaps I misunderstand the merged mining concept..

If we begin participating in a merged system, does it take away from the bitcoin mining efficiency? Or is it the same hashing function, results which could be applied to either network?

IE - if we find a result which meets the bitcoin network difficulty, would that result also apply to the namecoin network? block created on both networks from the same hash?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Iyeman on October 10, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
Perhaps I misunderstand the merged mining concept..

If we begin participating in a merged system, does it take away from the bitcoin mining efficiency? Or is it the same hashing function, results which could be applied to either network?

IE - if we find a result which meets the bitcoin network difficulty, would that result also apply to the namecoin network? block created on both networks from the same hash?

It doesnt take anything away from the bitcoin efficiency.  the answer your miner submits to the BTC network is also submitted to the NMC network to see if it works there. a 2 for 1 deal.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 10, 2011, 07:38:17 PM
Perhaps I misunderstand the merged mining concept..

If we begin participating in a merged system, does it take away from the bitcoin mining efficiency? Or is it the same hashing function, results which could be applied to either network?
NO.  Yes.  Technically it is only one block.

Quote
IE - if we find a result which meets the bitcoin network difficulty, would that result also apply to the namecoin network? block created on both networks from the same hash?
Yes however namecoin difficulty is independent current it is lower than bitcoin thus any valid bitcoin block is also a valid namecoin block but that could change in the future.

A particular hash could be:
a) valid for neither,
a) valid for only bitcoin,
b) valid for both bitcoin and namecoin.

A and b remain exactly the same.  We keep mining and through all those invalid hashes (a) and when we find one that meets target difficulty (b) we sign the block and get 50 BTC reward.  Merged mining adds the possibility of (c) where a hash meets the target difficulty for both bitcoin and namecoin.

If that is the case we collect both 50BTC reward from bitcoin network and 50 NMC reward from namecoin network.


Currently any valid bitcoin hash would also meet target difficulty for namecoin however if namecoin difficulty rises faster it is possible at some point in the future some of the blocks end up in category b and only some in category c.  

Don't feel bad about misunderstanding it.  For such an important breakthrough it has been horribly documented and communicated.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 10, 2011, 07:49:10 PM
Thank you, and the others for the explanations. It certainly makes more sense now..

In theory we should be knocking down a few namecoin blocks for every bitcoin block, with current difficulty of course..

Sounds like a good plan to me in that case :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 10, 2011, 08:55:54 PM
Sounds like merged mining is a popular choice. :)

I'll have a look at merged mining now and wait with signature banners and finishing the next miner version for later.

I'm releasing a beta version with how far I got with new miner features for the next version. Details are in the miner thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg566729#msg566729). It has some nice improvements to cut down on rejected work, and some weird stuff like sound effects. The sounds become quite annoying after a while so they are off by default.  ;D Sound will be more useful when I finish the config stuff so you can turn on only the sounds you want, like the sound when creating a block.

P4man, not sure if you were kidding about wanting sound when you create a block, but here it is! :D

By the way, nice with two new blocks today. Thanks to indolering and Fefox. :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 10, 2011, 09:33:45 PM
 ;D thanks for the new version !  :D


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 10, 2011, 10:35:46 PM

P4man, not sure if you were kidding about wanting sound when you create a block, but here it is! :D

I wasnt (joking) actually. Though I was thinking of a popup and some "jingle" when finally a block was found, like once a week (that was before fefox starting finding blocks per hour lol), so Ill try the beta later and find out what sort of sounds you implemented, Im curious :)

BTW, minor bug report: if you enable the minimize to tray, using ubuntu (vanilla gnome, not unity), it does minimize to the try, but I cant restore it. It keeps running fine, i just cant get it to the foreground anymore.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 11, 2011, 03:01:07 AM
Whoa, reading the last few replies, I already get the general concept of what merged mining is... and I'd never heard of it before reply # 285 where it all made sense:
hashing -> found result goes to (user-run) bitcoin pool server -> credit in your bitcoin mining account
Merged...
hashing -> found result -> bitcoin pool -> credit in your bitcoin account
                  ^---> other secondary network pool -> credit in your other pool account
Since the two networks don't communicate or have any relation to one other (aside from protocol), the hashes from one network can be used in the other as well!

... And the results could be economically disasterous. O_O

If hash rate of the Other network (namecoin, in this case, which I don't care much for) increases as more people do this "merged mining" thing with hardware used for the high difficulty of Bitcoin, the difficulty of Other Coin's network will increase to adapt to the rate as well.

The other side of the matter is that people are essentially "double spending" their production - spending the same amount of resources hashing for one network, then "double spending" that redemption into other currencies, devaluing both of them in the process (if they spend it).

Will it work? Yes. Will it work really well? Yes. Easy to implement. Yes. Will people get more "money" out of it? Yes yes yes yes yes... is it something I'd do? Sure. Is it a "pure idea" with no "oh god, how long can we keep dumping nuclear waste into this small pond" behind it? Eh... nah. In other words, on the scale of "white and pure" to "dark and evil", it's somewhere light-grey. :)


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2011, 03:18:00 AM
One correction Falcon.

The two blocks chains are completely independent.  Remember a hash satisfies a specific target but to avoid someone saying "hey I found a hash 00000000000000000000000000001" it has to be a hash of the bitcoin header.  Well what we are mining (I hate that word) hashing is bitcoin block headers then how does that create a solution for namecoin.

The answer is inside the bitcoin header in the coinbase field (normally just contains random data for the "extra-nonce") is recorded the merkle-tree of namecoin transactions, last block hash, and size of last namecoin block are put into bitcoin coinbase.  All together 33 bytes of data.

This is essence links that header to a snapshot of the namecoin network.  With merged mining namecoin requires the bitcoin blockchain but bitcoin doesn't require namecoin.   That "extra namecoin data" is seen just as random bits by bitcoin protocol.

Not sure why you think this is/could be a disaster.  My prediction is that the value of namecoin will drop 99.9% of current value.  Simply supply and demand.   You can't get something from nothing.  Alternatively the combined price of bitcoin + namecoin will drop relative to price of bitcoin prior to merged mining thus miners will still get the same amount total reward.  So those thinking it is this massive gold rush are right but it will be short lived.  The good news is the namecoin network gains all the strength of bitcoin hashing network and becomes stronger/safer.  Sometimes miner profits aren't everything.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 11, 2011, 05:30:50 PM
Is it possible to calculate future earnings from the shifts completed ?

I fail to see any info on this.. ?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 11, 2011, 09:09:10 PM
Is it possible to calculate future earnings from the shifts completed ?

I fail to see any info on this.. ?

I still don't have all the numbers up yet. I am planning to add something like "Your score in the 10 latest shifts is 2% of the total score. That will be your share of the income from any blocks built during the current shift." and maybe "A block with a total income of 50 BTC would give you 1 BTC."

Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 11, 2011, 09:40:29 PM
Alternatively you could calculate expected earnings as "if we found a block right now you would gain..."

Is it possible to calculate future earnings from the shifts completed ?

I fail to see any info on this.. ?

I still don't have all the numbers up yet. I am planning to add something like "Your score in the 10 latest shifts is 2% of the total score. That will be your share of the income from any blocks built during the current shift." and maybe "A block with a total income of 50 BTC would give you 1 BTC."

Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?



Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 11, 2011, 09:47:20 PM
Alternatively you could calculate expected earnings as "if we found a block right now you would gain..."

Is it possible to calculate future earnings from the shifts completed ?

I fail to see any info on this.. ?

I still don't have all the numbers up yet. I am planning to add something like "Your score in the 10 latest shifts is 2% of the total score. That will be your share of the income from any blocks built during the current shift." and maybe "A block with a total income of 50 BTC would give you 1 BTC."

Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?


Yes I like that idea..

I just started on bitminter, long time miner..

Your Java miner is a tad slower on all my miners compared to pheonix..

But im using it anyways.. what the heck..its not a huge diff.

I have 4 5830s, 2 5850's and a 5750.

283 hashs on the 5830s on bitminter, where pheonix they run around 303 mhashs

5850s are about 20 hashs slower, at 355 hashs, as opposed to 375 on pheonix..


Now Im also seeing that its using my 4 cpu cores up (not cpu mining) I would love to put them all on one CPU to keep electricity down, like the Guiminer has options for.




Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 11, 2011, 10:45:56 PM
While the Java miner is a tad slower, if you OC your cards you will find that it is more stable then other mining software, allowing you to run your cards at a higher speed without issues, I found I was able to OC enough to make up for the performance difference..

You should be able to use an affinity program, or use something like this: http://www.prnwatch.com/prio.html which gives you the ability to permanently set affinity for programs in windows task manager to lock it down to a single core.

HTH


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 11, 2011, 10:57:46 PM

283 hashs on the 5830s on bitminter, where pheonix they run around 303 mhashs

5850s are about 20 hashs slower, at 355 hashs, as opposed to 375 on pheonix..



Im curious what OS, drivers and SDK version and settings you are using as I see something different; for me on a single 5850,  bitminter is slightly faster  than phoenix (and mostly tied with diablo). Thats for hashrates, if you factor in the  extreme low amount of stales with bitminter, it becomes a no brainer.

For the record, I use ubuntu, catalyst 11.3 and SDK 2.5. My settings are 256 and 10 break interval.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 12, 2011, 12:59:01 AM

283 hashs on the 5830s on bitminter, where pheonix they run around 303 mhashs

5850s are about 20 hashs slower, at 355 hashs, as opposed to 375 on pheonix..



Im curious what OS, drivers and SDK version and settings you are using as I see something different; for me on a single 5850,  bitminter is slightly faster  than phoenix (and mostly tied with diablo). Thats for hashrates, if you factor in the  extreme low amount of stales with bitminter, it becomes a no brainer.

For the record, I use ubuntu, catalyst 11.3 and SDK 2.5. My settings are 256 and 10 break interval.


I have Win7 64

Most recent sdk, wether its 2.4 or not.. I forget which is most recent

I have 11.8 catalyst drivers.


As the previous poster said, its more stable.
I will try over clocking a smidge more to make up for diff.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 12, 2011, 01:36:42 AM
Ok, I did some minor tweaking.. Now its looking good. 

Only had it running for a while, so stability I cant say yet.

373 hash on 5850

294 hash on the 5830

142 hash on the 5750.

All in all a bit better.. now to apply this to all my miners..


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 12, 2011, 10:58:58 AM
As for performance, several reported in the miner thread that the new beta version is slower than the regular version. It has better stales/block change handling though, so I'm not sure which is best to use. I'll look into the performance issue with the beta when I have some time.

I'm currently working on merged mining, so miner issues have to wait for a bit.

BTW, minor bug report: if you enable the minimize to tray, using ubuntu (vanilla gnome, not unity), it does minimize to the try, but I cant restore it. It keeps running fine, i just cant get it to the foreground anymore.

That's annoying. Bug noted, thanks!

Alternatively you could calculate expected earnings as "if we found a block right now you would gain..."

Yes, I like that, short and sweet. But it's impossible to know the exact amount you earn with a block, because of transaction fees. But maybe it can be something like "if we create a block worth 50 BTC right now, you would get 0.12277621 BTC (xx.xx%)"


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 12, 2011, 12:56:20 PM
Quote
Yes, I like that, short and sweet. But it's impossible to know the exact amount you earn with a block, because of transaction fees. But maybe it can be something like "if we create a block worth 50 BTC right now, you would get 0.12277621 BTC (xx.xx%)"

Remember it is merely an estimate.  Transaction fees are relatively small adjustment <0.5%.  Most pools simply say something like "estimated current block reward: xx.

Actual reward often varies a couple % up or down. 

The number would simply be: 50 * (current shares in past 10 shifts) / (total shares in past 10 shifts).

It (and it also is in every other pool I have seen) would be somewhat inaccurate when a new miner starts out but quickly their shares submitted reaches an "equilibrium" as a % of pools hashing power which is another way of looking at rewards.  From that point forward the number remains rather consistant.  Large deviations really only occur with major changes in pool or user hashing power and even then the effects are temporary. 

Don't kill yourself striving for high accuracy.  Something that estimates reward with 10% would probably be "good enough".


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 12, 2011, 04:41:02 PM
I dont see BTC earned for each round, though I have only been here for two rounds, and the confirms havent finished.

Im curious to what each round avgs.

I have a few friends that are curious if its worth switching, and they keep asking me how much a round, I cant really tell them much..


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 12, 2011, 05:46:57 PM
I dont see BTC earned for each round, though I have only been here for two rounds, and the confirms havent finished.

Im curious to what each round avgs.

I have a few friends that are curious if its worth switching, and they keep asking me how much a round, I cant really tell them much..

You only earn coins when a block is found.  When block is found you earn your share of 10 prior shifts.  It is no different than a proportional pool.  Your cut is the % of shares you mined / total shares of pool.

The only reason for "shifts" is it makes pool hopping impossible (unlike straight proportional pool).


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 12, 2011, 05:59:13 PM
I dont see BTC earned for each round, though I have only been here for two rounds, and the confirms havent finished.

If you go to "statistics->blocks" you can click the height number on the blocks for more data on each block. On that page is a button marked "show payouts". When you click it you will see the reward to each individual member for that block. This way you can see the amount of BTC you are about to get for each of the two unconfirmed blocks. After they are confirmed the quickest way is to look in your transaction history ("my account->transaction history").

Also note that the promotional bonus (+5%) is not shown in the block reward info. It only appears when the block is confirmed and will show up as a separate entry in your transaction history.

I have a few friends that are curious if its worth switching

With +5% pay, and probably fewer stales, they will make more bitcoins on average over time. But since it's a small pool you notice it more when we have good or bad luck. That's not necessarily bad, though. This has been a very profitable (lucky) pool to mine in during the last 7 days.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 12, 2011, 07:23:49 PM
Excellent, thats what I was looking for..

3.1 percent..   I feel much more useful here :D lol


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 12, 2011, 07:48:10 PM
And another 2 blocks, insane, just how long is this luck going to keep up?
https://bitminter.com/blocks

Just admit it DrHaribo, you tinkered with the code so we find more blocks :D.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 12, 2011, 07:56:54 PM
Just admit it DrHaribo, you tinkered with the code so we find more blocks :D.

What do you think, turn off cheat-mode before we get in trouble?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 12, 2011, 08:11:40 PM
Just admit it DrHaribo, you tinkered with the code so we find more blocks :D.

What do you think, turn off cheat-mode before we get in trouble?


Im officially very in love of this pool.. lmao..


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 12, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
And another 2 blocks, insane, just how long is this luck going to keep up?
https://bitminter.com/blocks

Just admit it DrHaribo, you tinkered with the code so we find more blocks :D.

Holy Crap I actually mined a block! 

It makes up for that 9 day "Block which shall not be named" (aka as Block #148169).


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 12, 2011, 11:19:46 PM
Hey this may be the time to promote BitMinter.  I don't mean spamming but if someone is complaining they can't find a pool because of DDOS attacks mention they should join the smaller pools and then maybe say BitMinter.Com is up. If nothing else we get a temporary boost in hashing power but maybe some of them realize they don't like the high fees and high stales of the big pools and stay with BitMinter.

Alternatively if you don't have a signature logo might be worthwhile to use one for next couple days.

Just be smart about it.


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 13, 2011, 03:36:55 AM
Although I'm not a very active poster around here, I'll throw it up. I was waiting for the dynamic ones, but this is cool too

mind if I swipe your hosted copy there DeathAndTaxes?


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 13, 2011, 03:42:40 AM
Sure.  I swiped it from P4Man I think.   ::)

I figure with all the excitement some miners might be looking for a quiet pool to lock in some hashes.


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 13, 2011, 04:15:21 PM
I got pushed off the top10 :(

Guess I have to make top20 and top50 soon then  :D


Title: Re: [~45 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 13, 2011, 04:33:57 PM
Although I'm not a very active poster around here, I'll throw it up. I was waiting for the dynamic ones, but this is cool too

If you want, I can make you fake dynamic ones. Just let me know which design (slim one or "big" one like mine below) and what numbers you want on them :)


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 13, 2011, 07:35:30 PM
I'm in love with this pool as well. I've switched over 100% of my resources (and even trying to find new ones!) to this pool - previously was putting the smaller miners on BTC Guild PPS, but BTC Guild really makes me a little queasy with the total lack of community or explanation as to how their main pool maintains ~1.3 THASH/SEC (yeah, 1,300 Ghash/sec) and has NO COMMUNITY WHATSOEVER... no news page, no "FAQ", no information whatsoever, just a well-designed Account info page (which is what got me there), and a very stable rate of pay. Seeing as though I'm making unheard-of amounts of BTC off BitMinter - almost making mining *profitable* - I'm all in! My small handful of decent-powered CPUs almost makes up 2/3 the power of my single 6770 at home ;)

I just have to put in a HUGE request for some features. BitMinter is just... ech. I dunno, unstable? Unusable? I really can't use it at home or anywhere I can think of... it doesn't save ANY information (a huge, huge, HUGE issue I have - my #1 request!), like the number of completed proofs, BTC/day calculation, or even "hiding" undesired devices! If I click "X" on a device, it re-appears the next time the client is opened. I can't just tell my roommate to "hit the big Start button" when the CPU miner is shown on the screen as well. He'd have to pick through and start the two GPUs manually. He rarely does. As a result, his computer still runs 24/7 and doesn't get any mining done. I KNEW he'd forget to start them. I can run Phoenix in a background Remote Desktop session, but that conflicts with his gaming when he does want to use it. I also can't edit clock speed from RDP, thanks to Catalyst (which brands itself Vision Engine due to a conflict of the APU/chipset and the Radeon GPU installed). Can't even get the goddamn PC to run CrossFireX like it was advertised to. What a headache on his PC... even on my server, it's easier to just double-click Phoenix.

So, feature requests, in order of priority...
- Save settings and information between sessions. Completed blocks and hidden devices among the top priority.
- Automatically run when idle. There's a little tool out there on the boards, WhileIdle, that has full source code provided, which does a decent job of detecting idle periods and starting/stopping a program during idle. Downside is, it has absolutely no interface and needs to be killed via Task Manager. Maybe use the source code as a basis for implementing it into BitMinter in Java? That would provide me with an excellent incentive to actually *use* the BitMinter client.
- Pie in the sky, but it'd be nice if BitMinter could set the GPU clock speed automatically as well. When the PC is in use for gaming, the default clock speeds (850MHz core/1200MHz memory) are most efficient. When it's mining, 950MHz core/300MHz memory clock dramatically reduces its power consumption and increases hash speed. I'd be giddy to see just a "set this clock speed" option, not even the auto-management that CGMiner provides (which usually just runs full blast anyway).
- Detect if OpenCL runtime is installed. When I first installed BitMinter on the server, it didn't produce an error, but didn't even detect the 6770 that its GUI was being displayed on - it only showed the CPU! I did some digging and found that the Catalyst installer didn't install OpenCL due to the Server 2008 R2 OS not matching its specification. I manually installed OpenCL via the MSI installer, and it worked fine. That could affect people using older drivers or incomplete installations that simply think their card isn't capable of running BitMinter.

And that would make it Awesome.


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 13, 2011, 09:39:37 PM
I agree with the above as well..

And, another block.. 15 hrs aint bad... :)


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 14, 2011, 04:52:06 AM
 ;D ha ha we're taking up speed. Faster and faster...


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2011, 05:12:18 AM
Go Bitminter Go.  Competition for top 10 is getting tougher, lots of impressive setups.


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: jago25_98 on October 14, 2011, 11:48:00 AM
Thought I'd test it. But now I'm running it and the client says ~50kps, shouldn't that be reflected on the webpage, especially if there's no complaints on getting the user, pass and machine name right?

Unless it's possible that I've named the machine the same as someone elses and that could mess it up


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 14, 2011, 01:23:27 PM
Thought I'd test it. But now I'm running it and the client says ~50kps, shouldn't that be reflected on the webpage, especially if there's no complaints on getting the user, pass and machine name right?

It's trying to guess your speed based on how many accepted proofs of work you have in the last minutes. With low speed this doesn't really work well. The rate you see on your computer is the correct one. When you see on your computer that you get an accepted proof of work, you should be able to see it in your account on the website as well.

If you are running the BitMinter client on a CPU, that's currently not a good idea, since the CPU-implementation in the client today is very bad. Until this is rectified it's probably better to use a miner with good CPU-capabilities like cgminer, ufasoft, cpu-miner, etc.

I should put in a warning about this to make it more visible.

If you have a graphics card that should be capable of doing this work, but it's not showing up, it's possible you don't have proper drivers, including OpenCL, installed. If so, let us know the brand and model, and we'll help you out.

And that would make it Awesome.

And awesome is what we want. Many good suggestions there. Thank you! Everything noted. Remembering settings and automation is already high up on the priority list.


Title: Re: [~55 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 15, 2011, 08:26:51 AM
With a nice increase in hash rate and a lowering of difficulty, it stands to reason we'd find more blocks, but this is an incredible lucky streak nonetheless! 12 blocks and only one (barely) above 60% CDF


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 15, 2011, 02:42:45 PM
Wait ...  I solved a second block (#29).  2 in 3 blocks.  WOOT.  I never have luck like that.


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 15, 2011, 04:51:54 PM
Join the dark side; where everything is possible  :D 8)


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 15, 2011, 06:44:46 PM
Clearly bitminter is producing fake blocks. 14 lucky blocks in a row now. DrHaribo, will you marry me ?


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: teflone on October 16, 2011, 06:14:32 PM
Boo yaaa... finally found a block


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 17, 2011, 06:05:47 AM
Haha  :D

Who says you can't win the lottery every day?  ;D


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on October 17, 2011, 08:58:06 AM
too bad its not worth anything


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: jasond1979 on October 18, 2011, 03:24:11 AM
Help me add another 200MHash to your system  heck I'll even do 5% donation

My system:

Windows XP 32 bit
Asus Motherboard 4GB memort  Board M4A88T-V Evo Series,  Amd Phenom 3.4 GHz processor
Two slot PCI-Express one 16x the other 4x

I have two graphic boards in the system:

PCI Express slot one Gigabyte 5850  capable of doing about 300Mhs

in slot two I have a Gigabyte 5770 capable of doing about 200 Mhs

Drivers that I'm running 6.14.10.7218  Catalyst 11.9

The problem is that when I start your program it comes up with two boards but it shows it as Cypress which is the 5850 board,  so I have to delete one board to run.   The 5770 board isn't even showing up.  For some reason Catalyst isnt seeing the Pci express slot two card.   Whats weird is that afterburner sees both boards.

If I swap locations and put the 5770 board in slot one and the 5850 in slot two.  The 5770 board comes up as two GPU miners.   This phenomena also happens in bitminer software so I know its not just your software.

I'm open to all suggestions I've gone back several versions of catalyst to see if that makes a difference.   I've also put a dummy plug on the slot two card to see if that makes a difference it doesn't.

I'm doing Bitmining for fun, not so much profit, I would like to get the other 200Mh/s on your pool if I could.   I"m doing the mining at my wifes studio where the electricity is included with the rent so its not costing extra.  ;D  Right now with the 5850 running its about 300 watts want to get it up to 400 with the 5770 running.

Thanks in advance for any help and hopefully I'll be able to throw another 500 Mh/s on the pool as soon as I get this problem fixed.   Right now the miner is at home and I'm under orders no mining.  :(   

Jason


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 18, 2011, 03:45:26 AM
If nothing else works reinstall windows.

I had a hell of a time getting 3rd 5970 to work (it was Win7 though).  Tried resintalling drivers, uninstalling drivers, using driver cleaners, changing video card slots, etc.  Nothing.  1 video card or 2 video cards fine.  3 videocards shows up in device manager but Catalyst wouldn't see all the GPU.

Finally gave up after day of messing with it.  Did a clean install, installed catalyst drivers (which have OpenCL), downloaded cgminer and it worked instantly.

I think AMD drivers get confused if you change or add a lot of video cards.


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 18, 2011, 05:55:28 AM
I dont think it will ever work in XP. I could be wrong, but I think in XP you can only use 2 videocards if they are identical. In Windows 7 (and linux) you can use several entirely different cards, you can even mix nvidia and ati cards, something I know doesnt work in XP.

If this is a dedicated mining rig, Id suggest installing ubuntu (and specifically, ubuntu 11.04 and not the latest  11.10, as 11.10 installs newer ATI drivers that suffer from the 100% cpu usage bug). If you need any help setting it up  with ubuntu, just ask, its not as difficult as one thinks but if you are new to linux you will likely need some guidance setting up the amd app sdk if nothing else.


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: jasond1979 on October 18, 2011, 06:06:37 AM
Well,  I"m not willing to buy windows seven to mine right now.  So I guess its Ubuntu it is.   Do I have to wipe my hard disk clean?  What about my wallet.dat file do I lose that or do I store it on my zip drive?

I don't want to lose my 200Mhash and since I'm not doing anything else with the computer here I go.  Is there a step by step process i follow and where is it?   

Again thanks in advance for your help hopefully within the week I'll be running a new O/S   :)


Jason


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 18, 2011, 06:16:34 AM
You dont have to wipe the hdd, you can install ubuntu alongside windows. Not sure if there is a step by step how to, but start by download it here:

http://releases.ubuntu.com/natty/

(get the AMD64 desktop ISO, direct link: http://releases.ubuntu.com/natty/ubuntu-11.04-desktop-amd64.iso)

Then burn it to a CD, or make a USB stick bootable. Easiest is unetbootin:
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/

Point it to the ISO, select the USB stick and let it make the stick bootable.

Then boot the PC from the stick (may need to go in to the bios to change boot order). Select "try ubuntu" and see if it works. No reason it shouldnt (though mining wont work, you need drivers for that). Then install it by clicking the install icon. It should propose a side by side install, giving you a dual boot between XP and ubuntu.

Once thats done, install the restricted drivers (start button, hardware drivers).

After that, you will need to install OpenCL as it doesnt come with the AMD drivers 11.04 uses by default. Ill dig up the link and explain once you get this far.

oh, do make a backup of the wallet.dat file before you start, but you should make one anyway.


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: FalconFour on October 18, 2011, 08:36:58 AM
XP can't do GPU computations by its very nature, it's a 10-year-old platform designed to work on old Pentium IIIs with 3D "accelerator" cards. It's utter shit for anything high performance these days. It wasn't even designed for multiple CPUs (that was patched together with later service packs, really). Windows 7 comes with nearly everything these days... shouldn't be too hard to find?

Anyway, I was just stopping by to whinebitchcomplain and smoke a bowl about the current nearly-2-day-long block we're dealing with right now, blugh. With how low Bitcoin's value dropped over the weekend... just... WOW! Nobody to blame kinda makes for moot conversation though :P


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on October 18, 2011, 09:42:46 AM
Shut up and mine. :-D
At this price I am already mining at a loss, but I am doing it anyway to keep the house warm (and fuzzy), and because I am a believer, due to the potential (still largely unrecognized) of keeping and moving a convenient asset under the evil gov't radar screen, and because I expect an euro and dollar crash in the medium term that will make the bitcoin price crash seem like an hiccup.


I was just stopping by to whinebitchcomplain and smoke a bowl about the current nearly-2-day-long block we're dealing with right now, blugh. With how low Bitcoin's value dropped over the weekend... just... WOW! Nobody to blame kinda makes for moot conversation though :P


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 18, 2011, 09:44:57 AM
Shut up and mine. :-D
At this price I am already mining at a loss, but I am doing it anyway to keep the house warm (and fuzzy), and because I am a believer, due to the potential (still largely unrecognized) of keeping and moving a convenient asset under the evil gov't radar screen, and because I expect an euro and dollar crash in the medium term that will make the bitcoin price crash seem like an hiccup.

Mostly agreed, although it would make more sense to just convert some euro's or dollars in to BTCs and use natural gas to heat your house. But where is the fun in that :)


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: jasond1979 on October 19, 2011, 01:26:50 AM
Ok I've installed ubuntu. I'm at the main screen and I can choose software center and the get software ect.  Just need to know where to go from here.  Thanks for all the help.  In no time I will have 500 mash on line.

Jason


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 19, 2011, 06:09:53 AM
Install AMD videodrivers (called "restricted" drivers in the linux world, as they are not opensource). Just click on the ubuntu logo top left and start typing "drivers". Click on "additional drivers" and activate the recommended driver. You will have to reboot after that.

Download OpenCL from AMD site:
http://developer.amd.com/sdks/AMDAPPSDK/downloads/Pages/default.aspx

Select the appropriate package (probably 64 bit if you installed 64 bit ubuntu). Save, open the tarball (its like a zip file) and extract them somewhere, like on your desktop. IN the extracted folder there should be an installation script install-APP.sh, double click it and run it in a terminal. If it complains about permissions, you may have to make the script executable first by right clicking the file and in the properties mark it as executable, not sure if AMD set it as such. Be aware, last time I installed OpenCL the installer would reboot my PC after it installed no questions asked.

After that, you should be able to start mining with bitminter.

You may want to install this little tool too:
http://www.ubunturoot.com/2011/02/amdoverdrivectrl-tweak-tool-for-ati.html

to overclock your card and set fan speeds, monitor temps etc. You probably dont want to compile it from source, so just grab the .deb package here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/amdovdrvctrl/files/deb%20binaries/

again, pick the right one for your CPU/OS. I assume amdoverdrivectrl_1.1.4_amd64.deb. Then its just double clicking the .deb and it will launch software center where you can install the app.




Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 19, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
What about my wallet.dat file do I lose that or do I store it on my zip drive?

There's no need to have the wallet or even the bitcoin program (from bitcoin.org) on the mining computer, especially one you keep at a remote location. Keep the wallet on the computer where you want to use it, and on backup.

If you have lots of coins, keep those in a wallet only on backups (several encrypted copies at different locations), and keep only spending money in the wallet on the computer. You can even send coins to your offline wallet. It doesn't need to be online to "receive" coins.

Nice Linux-instructions, P4man. Hope that works out for you, Jason. :)


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: jasond1979 on October 19, 2011, 03:49:34 PM
Thanks for the great instructions guys, will get back to you with the results.   I'm finding that its kind of fun working with Ubuntu, very powerful interface.

Can't say I'm making any money with this Bitcoining thing but I am learning a ton and maybe thats what its about.

Jason


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 19, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
Ubuntu is a fabulous OS. The only reason I have to revert to windows now and then is gaming. On my laptop(s) I have not installed windows in like 5 years. Well, except for inside a virtual machine hosted by ubuntu to test windows stuff.


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 19, 2011, 11:10:28 PM

There's no need to have the wallet or even the bitcoin program (from bitcoin.org) on the mining computer, especially one you keep at a remote location. Keep the wallet on the computer where you want to use it, and on backup.

Strong recommend this.  If you mining rig has nothing but mining software running on a stripped down linux distro it isn't much interest to a hacker.  Since you likely won't be monitoring your rig 24/7 don't keep a wallet on there.  The more you make your mining rig a dedicated and simplified mining appliance the more stable it will be and the less attractive it is to an attacker.


Title: Re: [~60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bronan on October 21, 2011, 10:18:18 AM
Ubuntu is a fabulous OS. The only reason I have to revert to windows now and then is gaming. On my laptop(s) I have not installed windows in like 5 years. Well, except for inside a virtual machine hosted by ubuntu to test windows stuff.
I wish i could convince the ladies that
As soon as they can not find their precious word, excel and last but not least internet explorer they go into a nervous breakdown.
On the other hand linux still suxx it will allways stay a nerd operating system, for people like me its easy when something fails but for the others.. Pfff they really have no clue what todo if something crashes or goes into errors.
You can say whatever you want over windhoos for n00bs it is the best.
They can simply restart and it works again, try that on linux when it crashed .... i assure you it will not start without you having to fix the filesystem and thats when your lucky. ( by this i mean turn of the power like they do when it crashes)
Yes i hate windhoos too but its the one who made computers easy for the masses which i think linux never will be.
Ofcourse linux has been improved a little bit and yes even some n00bs now can install linux but if something fails its still a text base os where you endless need to edit and type commands to get things installed or fixed.
Even the so rumoured rpm packages manage to constant fail a install for whatever reason, so before linux becomes a serious competition for windhoos it still has a enormous long way to go.
As soon as i can say to my wife start up the pc and push go and start install and at the moment it goes wrong she can click fix this, i think it will succeed else it allways will be the nerd os what it is.
And ofcourse linux has totally no games like the windhoos platform all major games only get released on the consoles or windhoos, hardly any game is linux friendly besides doom



Title: Re: [56 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 21, 2011, 11:18:01 AM
Bronan, how long has it been since you tried a user friendly distro like ubuntu?
 Its perfect for noobs. Its so much easier and safer to do basic stuff, office, internet, email, facebook/twitter.. its all integrated, maintenance is a breeze with centralized updating, no need for AV, etc. Finding and adding software is a breeze with software center. Crashing? It doesnt crash. And if I do brick it because Im poking a little too hard under the hood,  at worst I can reinstall the OS in 10 minutes without losing any user settings or documents and even have all all the same apps and packages reinstalled.

My mother has been using ubuntu for the past 5 years. She is 75, and its perfect for her, she never really got the hang of windows, but ubuntu she gets. I recently installed ubuntu on an old PC of my neighbours, it was intended to allow the kids to surf more securely and play some games; the parents are mostly PC illiterate, the kids all under 7 years old. I expected many phonecalls initially, but Ive had ZERO. Seriously not one. I thought they wouldnt use it, but they use the thing every day, educatinal apps like gcompris for the kids,  and the parents now use it instead of their own PC for internet, email, skype homebanking.

The only real pitfall with linux is hardware (in)compatibility. If you have a machine with a buggy ACPI bios or some obscure wifi or network card that is not supported out of the box, a printer thats not well supported, then it can be a difficult and frustrating process. But its the exception, my guess is on 90-95% of PCs, you will have no problems at all.

edit: ok, and another issue is software compatibility; if you are a hardcore gamer, obviously ubuntu is no go. If you need a specific app that doesnt have a linux equivalent, it might be a no go. Video editing comes to mind. Though if its just one or two apps, you can usually run them under wine or in a VM.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 21, 2011, 08:16:50 PM
Allright, Im again mining with 2x 5850s.
Took a bit longer than anticipated but had some cooling issues and then I had to borrow one of my decent PSUs to my neighbor. I didnt want to wait too long, so now I have a rat rig thats powered by 2 old flaky ~300W PSU's, one powering the GPU the other the rest. Hey, it works :).

More good news, I ordered another XFX 5870 for cheap (120 euro woohoo) and my neighbor is buying me a flashy zalman PSU, so i may actually power the beast.

1 GH/s, here I come :)


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 22, 2011, 01:04:40 PM
Ordered the first parts for my new rig (2x6970) today. Hope being online at the end of the year. That sh!t is expensive  :'( ::)


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 22, 2011, 02:42:50 PM
If you ever look to expand try to find an "ancient" 5970.  At $500 it is the best value for mining.  At $400 (sometimes you can find it on "sale") it blows away any other card.    There are a lot of used ones on ebay but some go for >$400+.   If you are patient and low bid you can eventually snag on for $300 to $330.   I know some people are afraid of ebay but ebay w/ paypal has 30 day buyer protection.  If the card has been damaged or is defective mining is going to expose it and a lot faster than 30 days.

My rigs are now nothing but 3x5970s ea (moving from a hodgepodge or 5870s, 6950s, 6970s, 6990s).  Hopefully when the 7xxx cards come out those gamers who hung on to the 5970s through the 6xxx series will dump them on ebay.  Maybe we can even see <$300 5970s prices.   ;D  Well a miner can dream right?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 02:49:57 PM
If you ever look to expand try to find an "ancient" 5970.  At $500 it is the best value for mining.

It could be if you have to pay for electricity, which I dont (up to a limit). My only concern is MH/Euro, and 5850s and 5870s are tough to beat. Even if you include electricity cost, the difference with a 5970 would be minor if you dont max out your rigs (ie, 3 or 4 cards per system). 5970s I imagine would shine with energy efficiency if you can plug 3 or possibly 4 of them in a single rig, but they are also easily 50-100% more expensive per MH in purchase. That takes a while to earn back.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 22, 2011, 03:23:09 PM
If you ever look to expand try to find an "ancient" 5970.  At $500 it is the best value for mining.  At $400 (sometimes you can find it on "sale") it blows away any other card.    There are a lot of used ones on ebay but some go for >$400+.   If you are patient and low bid you can eventually snag on for $300 to $330.   I know some people are afraid of ebay but ebay w/ paypal has 30 day buyer protection.  If the card has been damaged or is defective mining is going to expose it and a lot faster than 30 days.

My rigs are now nothing but 3x5970s ea (moving from a hodgepodge or 5870s, 6950s, 6970s, 6990s).  Hopefully when the 7xxx cards come out those gamers who hung on to the 5970s through the 6xxx series will dump them on ebay.  Maybe we can even see <$300 5970s prices.   ;D  Well a miner can dream right?

Thanks for the advice ! No doubt that the 5970 is the superior BTC mining card at the moment. Sadly they want about 750$+ !!! new here in Switzerland. They are really hard to find. 5xxx series is dead here. Only second hand cards are available. I'll keep my eyes open  ;)

Sam 


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 03:44:37 PM
Quote
Only second hand cards are available

Second hand cards FTW!  Seriously, with some luck you can find astonishing good deals. 120 euro for a 5870 which is the hashing equivalent of a 6970 costing almost 3x as much here. OKay, so I wont have much, if any warranty, but I dont except them all to die 3x in 2 years on average. /me knocks on wood :)

edit: cool. this forum knows IRC codes :)


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 22, 2011, 04:01:01 PM

Thanks for the advice ! No doubt that the 5970 is the superior BTC mining card at the moment. Sadly they want about 750$+ !!! new here in Switzerland. They are really hard to find. 5xxx series is dead here. Only second hand cards are available. I'll keep my eyes open  ;)

Wow $750 I can see why you passed on a 5970.

I didn't realize supply and prices varied that much overseas.  Wonder if I should buy like 10 used 5970 from ebay?  Test/burn em, and then sell them in bitcoins to international users.  The US postal service has pretty cheap international rates.  If you don't mind me asking what do new 6970s go for in Switzerland?

Depending on how cheap I can get 5xxx series gear it might be a win-win for me & international miners.  I am willing to drop $3K to $4K into video cards if there is enough interest.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 04:04:54 PM

Thanks for the advice ! No doubt that the 5970 is the superior BTC mining card at the moment. Sadly they want about 750$+ !!! new here in Switzerland. They are really hard to find. 5xxx series is dead here. Only second hand cards are available. I'll keep my eyes open  ;)

Wow $750 I can see why you passed on a 5970.

I didn't realize supply and prices varied that much overseas.  Wonder if I should buy like 10 used 5970 from ebay?  Test/burn em, and then sell them in bitcoins to international users.  The US postal service has pretty cheap international rates.  If you don't mind me asking what do new 6970s go for in Switzerland?

Depending on how cheap I can get 5xxx series gear it might be a win-win for me & international miners.  I am willing to drop $3K to $4K into video cards if there is enough interest.

I dont think second hand cards cost anything like that in Switzerland. I think he meant be the odd shop still selling them new as rarity for those that really need them or online shops that havent updated their site in a few years :). For roughly half that price you can buy used 6990s in Belgium, I kinda doubt Switzerland would be very different.  If anything, prices here seem lower than in the US, judging by going rates on this forum. I buy my stuff substantially cheaper. Interested in importing ? :)


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
Just for reference, this is from our local variant of Craig's list:
http://www.2dehands.be/computer-game-consoles/computer-onderdelen/3d-kaarten/ati-5970-msi-104674757.html?qq=5970

295 euro asking price and he allows bidding from 220 euro. Still has 18 months warranty too.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 22, 2011, 04:39:22 PM

Wow $750 I can see why you passed on a 5970.

I didn't realize supply and prices varied that much overseas.  Wonder if I should buy like 10 used 5970 from ebay?  Test/burn em, and then sell them in bitcoins to international users.  The US postal service has pretty cheap international rates.  If you don't mind me asking what do new 6970s go for in Switzerland?

750+ is for new cards. 6970 is around 410 to 430$ here.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 22, 2011, 04:49:43 PM

Wow $750 I can see why you passed on a 5970.

I didn't realize supply and prices varied that much overseas.  Wonder if I should buy like 10 used 5970 from ebay?  Test/burn em, and then sell them in bitcoins to international users.  The US postal service has pretty cheap international rates.  If you don't mind me asking what do new 6970s go for in Switzerland?

750+ is for new cards. 6970 is around 410 to 430$ here.

Yeah I figured but is high when most places in US have it for $500 and sometimes $400.  $400+ for 6970 is equally brutal.  I guess I have just been spoiled by amazon & newegg & ebay (for used).  Then again not everyone is as comfortable buying/using $350+ used GPUs. 


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 05:59:02 PM
Are we now not officially the most lucky pool like, ever ?
Since the new difficulty, so for over 14 blocks. we have an average of 653K shares per block rather than the 1.468M you'd expect.
My statistics is very rusty, someone else feel free to calculate the odds, but that seems VERY lucky! If you look at the last 25 blocks, its even more insane.

edit: lol, and another one. 4th block this day ! So make that 621,251 over 15 blocks :p


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 22, 2011, 06:44:58 PM
 :D a very lucky weekend, thanks to our big guns !


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 06:52:29 PM
Okay I did the math. The last 15 blocks with less than 10M shares, thats a chance of 0.25% !
If anyone wants to check, I used this in excel:
=BINOMDIST(15,9940017,1/1468195, FALSE)

where the green number is the sum of all shares for the last 15 blocks, and the red number is the difficulty.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 22, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
So, judging by earlier discussions on bitcointalk about BTCguild cheating and withholding blocks and the logic in those discussions...

There's a 99.75% chance that we are cheating and producing too many blocks?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 22, 2011, 07:44:32 PM
ah, but its still entirely possible you are withholding blocks, and our real luck is 99.9925% :)
Then again, with this kind of luck one wouldnt even care :D


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 23, 2011, 12:36:14 PM
Allright, Im again mining with 2x 5850s.
Took a bit longer than anticipated but had some cooling issues and then I had to borrow one of my decent PSUs to my neighbor. I didnt want to wait too long, so now I have a rat rig thats powered by 2 old flaky ~300W PSU's, one powering the GPU the other the rest. Hey, it works :).

Pulled the trigger on two new 5850 for my rig. Can you give me the estimated power usage for 2 cards ? Around 300W or less ?

Thanks Sam


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 23, 2011, 12:52:19 PM
Sorry, no idea. Dont have a watt meter.
150W per card is probably around right, a tad more perhaps if you are measuring at the wall and particularly if you overclock.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bronan on October 23, 2011, 02:17:34 PM
prices in the netherlands in ofcourse euro

6990:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/49/videokaarten.html#filter:NYuxCoQwEET_ZWoLL0c4yQcIV1hZikXYbJEjXGQTDkHy77ciNgPz3syBLIFljJwCHDaJn4LugnOWqsw XUqKGeIpfuL5DoSw8-R3O3uU2nJgqh3ljeocCt8AMvf6fWNUqHWOqLGoOGHPmz6dzZh8vi7W19gc

6970
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/49/videokaarten.html#filter:NYuxCoQwEET_ZWoLL0c4yQcIV1hZikXYbJEjXGQTDkHy77ciNgPz3syBLIFljJwCHDaJn4LugnOWqsw XUqKGeIpfuL5DoSw8-R3O3uU2nJgqh3ljeocCt8AMvf6fWNUqHWOqLGoOGHPmz6dzZh8vi7W19gc



some 5970 are special editions which are kinda collectors items like the xfx black edition ones who have special boxes and such costs much more, and i consider them very rare which ofcourse make them costly even second hand
I saw one trying to sell his xfx 5970 BE for almost 650 euro so with current dollar value is a lot :D

@P4man i just installed the latest ubuntu 11.10 but it would not work well in vm somehow it got screwed up big time :D, and yes linux has a problem with the latest hardware as allways it tags along when new things come out windows is the first to have working drivers :D

But my actual problem is the usage of programs the ladies use endless keystroke commands for their word and such which ofcourse not work in linux counterparts also the company whiteoffice would take me months of fiddling. So its easy linux will never be an option for me, i simply can not make the time to change everything so that the ladies can work like they are used to at their jobs.
I am not saying linux is bad i am just saying it takes too much time to change it all, now i just import the settings from the office when its changed again and they get the same keystrokes, logos, letters, whatever is needed and that all with minimum time from me.
Do not get wrong i myself use for example hyper-v server and server 2008r2 since i hardly spend much time in normal windows itself, i use like at the job basically cmd prompts. Yes i started to be lazy myself, when i have to work in true-unix 64 or the other unix system V i sometimes type the win cmds which obvious do not work  xD
I am sure that if the unix machines could be replaced and ms/intel could offer a similar performing system and the software running on it would do well on these, i would instant replace them to get a just one os in the whole company.
Sadly till today that is still not possible to replace just one of the 64 cpu alpha machines would cost estimated 5 time as much especially cause the software is all custom made. And intel solutions to not scale anything near these monsters.
Now back to linux as long as people just do certain tasks and they are openminded they can quickly learn to use linux, but when they do more things then just click the icons preinstalled by people like you or me it ends.
I have tried to let a friend install a program on his linux box which went wrong the installer failed and destroyed the previous installed program, it took me hours to get it back working again without loosing his precious work. Now yes i consider myself not a wizard on linux but i am still one who can get most things working... the guy would never got it in working order without me plain and simple
So linux still never beats ms his crap in that respect, yes some things got better but again only if all goes well. When something fails i rather have a windows client then a linux client in every way possible.
I hate microsoft and its arrogant way of thinking alot but its the most user friendly ever and will be for a very long time, till linux finds the same solutions when problems occurs without having to reinstall the os and all needed programs.
I do use linux myself sometimes for some tasks but to be honest in most cases i use the win solutions often, i hope some day it will change because i would love to see an open os as easy as ms windows on all pc's, but till linux has got to this level its just dream not come true yet.

 


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 23, 2011, 02:36:46 PM
Could whoever stole bronan's enter key, please return it?

http://www.featurepics.com/FI/Thumb/20070524/Missing-Enter-Key-327539.jpg


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 23, 2011, 03:02:11 PM
 :D ;D... at least i can see that the prices suck too in the netherlands.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 23, 2011, 07:19:54 PM
Lol...but I'm sure his english is better than your dutch ;)

Taking bets?

[spoiler]
Being Belgian, and more precisely, Flemisch, Dutch happens to my native tongue as well :p
[/spoiler]


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 23, 2011, 09:44:55 PM
Sorry there were a few minutes of downtime. I was making updates to the database to support merged mining (coming soon).

I had some unexpected errors when doing the upgrade, which is why it was down long enough to notice. Sorry about that.

Please let me know if you notice anything out of the ordinary. The changes right now are just to make room for merged mining and other upcoming features. There's no significant change that you should be able to notice.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 23, 2011, 10:09:40 PM
Excellent timing to confuse the hell out of me lol. I was just configuring cgminer for failover to slush and it seemed as if it kept defaulting to the wrong pool ROFL.

Everything seems to run smooth now.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bronan on October 23, 2011, 10:36:18 PM
So again p4man did it ;)

Give me back my enter key darn it ! xD


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 24, 2011, 06:23:10 PM
Yay! We now have 1000 members!

No.1000, benderfry, gets 5 BTC to start with.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 25, 2011, 01:18:26 PM
Just a small headsup for fellow headless linux miners. Ive only just come to appreciate the power of "screen".

What I already knew, and I think most know, if you log in to your machine via SSH, you can attach and detach sessions with screen; so for instance, from your windows machine you open ssh session, you launch your miner in a "screen", detach it, and you can shut down the ssh session and windows machine, the miner keeps running. From any other session or machine you can simply reattach the screen to monitor it, or change settings or whatever. Just like you would with VNC.

But now that Ive started to read the man page, it doesnt exactly stop there. You can do amazing things. You can have "screen" monitor the screen (*) for inactivty, you can do split screens and a host of other useful things. If you want to know it all, "man screen" or go here:
http://www.softpanorama.org/Utilities/screen.shtml

Here is screenshot of a putty session where Im running cgminer, top and a litecoin cpu miner in one window:
http://i.imgur.com/LlRU3.png

(*) okay, you may have to read that twice lol.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: SgtMoth on October 25, 2011, 04:20:46 PM
looks like its time to rename this to FoxMinter!!!


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 25, 2011, 10:14:42 PM
Some new friends for the pool...  http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318320_2342053962849_1594960449_2258454_879957501_n.jpg :D as you can see all still very experimental. Sadly i'm unable to use both cards with the bitminter client at the same time. The cpu rate (Athlon 2 x2) will jump to 100% (50 per card)...

With my IC2 Q6600 and the hd6670 i see 2%  :'(

Guiminer works at 50% with both cards but about 40 to 50 mh/s slower than the bitminter client. I need a cpu affinity button for bitminter !  :P


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on October 25, 2011, 10:25:07 PM
IIRC you can restrict Bitminter to single CPU by restricting the java process to a single CPU in task manager.

Sadly until AMD fixes their 100% CPU bug  (w/ 2+ GPU) there is nothing else you can do.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 25, 2011, 10:40:36 PM
IIRC you can restrict Bitminter to single CPU by restricting the java process to a single CPU in task manager.

Sadly until AMD fixes their 100% CPU bug  (w/ 2+ GPU) there is nothing else you can do.

 :o since i'm new to windows 7 i wasn't aware of that function. I'll try it out. Thanks for the tip !

Edit: Works very well. Thanks a lot !


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on October 25, 2011, 11:18:21 PM
The problem with doing it through task manager, is that it won't save the setting.

Next time you shut down the miner and restart you will have to remember to do it again, or add the ability to save settings in task manager with this Prio Priority Saver (http://www.prnwatch.com/prio.html)


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 26, 2011, 10:51:34 PM
I was playing around with the overclocking settings of my ASRock 970 Extreme 3, changed CPU frequency (FSB?) and CPU ratio to decrease power consumption from the CPU. Out of nowhere my hashrate goes up from 675 MH/s to 760 MH/s  :o ;D wtf ? Nothing changed on GPU side. Same temps, 840 MHz gpu, 560 ram. Has someone an explanation for that ?

While i wrote the above, the computer crashed without warning. Strange  ::)


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 27, 2011, 11:01:27 PM
Perhaps HE was the saboteur...  :D

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311410_2349194861367_1594960449_2264028_633067684_n.jpg

Happy minting !


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bronan on October 28, 2011, 12:44:38 AM
OH noes a gremlin
me runs being scared as a chicken :D


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 28, 2011, 06:07:27 AM
LOL, is that a wooden case? I hope it has more ventilation than those tiny holes you drilled on top.

As for CPU clocks or FSB influencing hashrate, that seems unlikely. I suspect it was something else, like your gpu overclock not been set.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 28, 2011, 07:17:16 AM
Yes, it's a wooden case. One 140mm fan. GPU temp 72 degree @ 675 MH/s. Only 1 to 2 degree difference to an open setup. It's well designed by myself with lots of openings ;)


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Tartarus on October 30, 2011, 02:38:21 AM
Hey all, two quick (I hope questions):

First, what's the equivalent of intensity=9 in cgminer, etc?  Setting breaktime to 90ms?

Second, I see merged mining is coming soon.  Just how soon?  I'm hoping before the current bonus runs out :)

And as an observation, at least in my rig (Ubuntu, I'm currently only as fast as cgminer was, but in cgminer I saw a LOT of pool not responding, caching results, pool back, submitting msgs).


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 30, 2011, 09:00:40 AM
I use 275ms break interval on my 24h rig. Just play around with the settings to see what works best for you. The higher the number, the less responsive is your desktop.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 30, 2011, 09:15:15 AM
And as an observation, at least in my rig (Ubuntu, I'm currently only as fast as cgminer was, but in cgminer I saw a LOT of pool not responding, caching results, pool back, submitting msgs).

Im seeing something similar, I think. Ive gone back to using cgminer because its easier to manage remotely without gui (set speeds, fans etc over ssh); I have slush configured as failback pool and I keep getting tiny amounts of BTC from slush. Im not logging, so Im not entirely sure whats happening, can someone make sense of this:

http://i.imgur.com/zPvvn.png



Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 31, 2011, 11:37:50 AM
Second 80+ block in a row... :'( At least we have a good hash rate.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 31, 2011, 01:10:54 PM
I like the new difficulty though. Just a shame I lost 2 motherboards in 2 days (!). Will take a bit before I can finally get to fire up all my GPU's.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 31, 2011, 05:07:37 PM
What happened to the boards ?


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 31, 2011, 05:52:41 PM
one a corrupt bios. it asked for usb or floppy with the bios, I tried feeding it that with the correct bios, and now I only get a black screen; cmos resetting etc does nothing, seems dead.

The other one, I dont know. It still works, but I noticed a resistor burnt out and there is black stuff like it exploded all the way to a nearby chip (I think raid controller, but not sure). Funny thing, havent noticed anything not working yet (didnt test raid), but Im reluctant to put expensive cards in it.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on October 31, 2011, 05:58:29 PM
First, what's the equivalent of intensity=9 in cgminer, etc?  Setting breaktime to 90ms?

I don't think there's a direct equivalent. If I'm not mistaken, the miner programs that use "insensity" put a certain amount of load on the GPU and how laggy things get depend on how fast the GPU is. Intensity 9 could be very choppy on one computer, and smooth on another. I wanted something that works independent of how fast the GPU is. So 90ms work intervals just say "try to create work loads that take 90ms on my hardware."

Second, I see merged mining is coming soon.  Just how soon?  I'm hoping before the current bonus runs out :)

I think it will be done before block 60 is completed. But I don't want to give any specific dates, as I just don't know. But here's a quick update on the progress.

This is done:
  • Modify database to support merged mining and other cool features that will be revealed at a later date
  • Rewrite existing code to work with the new database schema (running on server now)
  • Support for pool backend to watch multiple block chains for new blocks, maturity of our created blocks, etc.
  • Pay in correct currency when blocks mature
  • Create block headers ("work units") for miners built on the necessary merged mining data

This is what remains:
  • Create blocks when miners find a good enough proof of work
  • Auto cash out for non-BTC currency
  • Testing, so I don't deploy something completely broken

Maybe I should get merged mining running before cash out of NMC is working. Better to get some NMC today and get cash out feature tomorrow, than to get nothing today and cash out feature tomorrow. ;) But after I get block creation working I will need to do at least a little testing. The server is running nicely now creating BTC - I don't want it to stop working because of bugs.

can someone make sense of this:

Not sure what the problem is there? But I have never used cgminer.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 31, 2011, 06:41:57 PM
Not sure what the problem is there? But I have never used cgminer.

Looked it up:
GF is Getwork Fail Occasions (server slow to provide work)
RF is Remote Fail occasions (server slow to accept work)

I have 5 GFs in that screenshot, apparently slow enough to make cgminer revert to my alternate pool for a short while. Probably network glitch or something? In the last 24 hr I had 8 more of those. Doesnt seem very serious tho.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 31, 2011, 06:57:15 PM
update, if it helps, here are two timestamps of when the server was slow to respond:

http://i.imgur.com/Hwrsi.png

Times are brussels time (UTC +1), I think the same as yours.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on October 31, 2011, 07:34:34 PM
one a corrupt bios. it asked for usb or floppy with the bios, I tried feeding it that with the correct bios, and now I only get a black screen; cmos resetting etc does nothing, seems dead.

The other one, I dont know. It still works, but I noticed a resistor burnt out and there is black stuff like it exploded all the way to a nearby chip (I think raid controller, but not sure). Funny thing, havent noticed anything not working yet (didnt test raid), but Im reluctant to put expensive cards in it.

Sucks to hear. Still working on my rig. I'm finally down to 300 MHz memory. At 400 MHz i had some bad artifacts which made me belive that a lower setting may not be possible with my cards. Tomorrow i'm going to add some more fans to the housing. Did some tests with my old amateur radio equipment and some fans ;D was fun to overdrive them at 15V up  :D


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bronan on October 31, 2011, 09:21:52 PM
P4man does your provider gives on certain time periods sync on the network
I had that when i used tele2 network back in the belgium days, so daily 4 times had some short disconnects which made my software report it was not connected.
They did that to prevent users running real servers on that network.
 
The only solution for replacing the bios is probably let someone with a external bios flasher thingy do it or another option is to find a similar broken down one and use its bios to replace yours


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on October 31, 2011, 09:41:40 PM
P4man does your provider gives on certain time periods sync on the network
I had that when i used tele2 network back in the belgium days, so daily 4 times had some short disconnects which made my software report it was not connected.

Not that I know. Im on cable, the DHCP lease is for 24h and seems to get renewed instantly and seamlessly at midnight. (and servers are "blocked" by blocking all incoming ports below 1024). Anyway, Im not sure how short or long cgminers timeout is, it might just be a little too tight, like I said, not a big thing. I just get 0.001BTC from slush once in a while :).

Quote
The only solution for replacing the bios is probably let someone with a external bios flasher thingy do it or another option is to find a similar broken down one and use its bios to replace yours

Yeah.. Apparently if you can find an identical board, you can even boot the board and hotswap bios chip while its powered on, booted from the good bios chip, then reflash the corrupt one. But hey, I can buy S775 boards for 30 euro, no need to bother. It is food for thought though; while the problems are not directly related to bitcoin mining, fact is Ive lost a 5850 and 2 motherboards now, while Ive mined like 15 BTC so far. Thats rather funny because yesterday I turned 1 BTC in to almost 14 BTC playing poker in 3 hours. Makes me wonder if Im concentrating on the right approach LOL.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on November 01, 2011, 10:07:05 PM
DAT is back !  :D


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 01, 2011, 10:16:11 PM
DAT is back !  :D

Yeah.  Someone rented out my rigs for 15 days.  Not sure why they wanted to but they were paying more than market rate.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bitlane on November 01, 2011, 10:21:54 PM
I have slush configured as failback pool and I keep getting tiny amounts of BTC from slush.

Not to crap on your post....or configuration for that matter...but, WHY IN HELL would you set a score-based (or any NON-PPS/Time Based/Share Expiring) Pool as your Backup/Failover Pool ?

Wouldn't it make far more sense to use a pure PPS Pool as your Failover/Backup Pool ? .....a pool that doesn't care when you connect, or for how long, or for how little.....still giving you FULL value for every share submitted ?

You might be pleasantly surprised when those tiny bits begin to grow in size if your need for a backup/failover continue.

Again, sorry to point that out, but someone would have....or perhaps already did and I missed reading it.

Happy Mining ;)


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 01, 2011, 10:29:09 PM

Not to crap on your post....or configuration for that matter...but, WHY IN HELL would you set a score-based (or any NON-PPS/Time Based/Share Expiring) Pool as your Backup/Failover Pool ?

Because I havent given it any thought, and I already had an account at slush before I discovered bitminer :). Since we are talking about like 5  proofs of work per day, I cant be bothered to find and register and configure a better suited failover pool :) That said, maybe I should, not because of 0.0001 BTC difference, but because slush appears to be down again. Guess I should go and try p2pool.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 01, 2011, 10:29:56 PM
I have slush configured as failback pool and I keep getting tiny amounts of BTC from slush.

Not to crap on your post....or configuration for that matter...but, WHY IN HELL would you set a score-based (or any NON-PPS/Time Based/Share Expiring) Pool as your Backup/Failover Pool ?

Wouldn't it make far more sense to use a pure PPS Pool as your Failover/Backup Pool ? .....a pool that doesn't care when you connect, or for how long, or for how little.....still giving you FULL value for every share submitted ?

I got to agree.  Although SMPPS if fine for backup too.  I use Arsbitcoin for all my rigs as backup.  Worst case scenario the buffer goes negative and you need to wait a little longer.   IMHO that is better than the high fees of PPS.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Eveofwar on November 01, 2011, 10:33:31 PM

Not to crap on your post....or configuration for that matter...but, WHY IN HELL would you set a score-based (or any NON-PPS/Time Based/Share Expiring) Pool as your Backup/Failover Pool ?

Because I havent given it any thought, and I already had an account at slush before I discovered bitminer :). Since we are talking about like 5  proofs of work per day, I cant be bothered to find and register and configure a better suited failover pool :) That said, maybe I should, not because of 0.0001 BTC difference, but because slush appears to be down again. Guess I should go and try p2pool.

I guess you don't understand the concept behind payout methods.  I think you need to familiarize yourself with what each type offers, before you find yourself sending shares to pools that will do nothing but cause a detriment to your income.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 01, 2011, 10:41:52 PM
Im familiar enough with them, Im just not bothered. Partially because I dont earn my living from mining, partially because since I joined bitminter, its been offline for all of 15 minutes. Ive only recently configured a failover at all, just in case bitminter would could under attack from DDoS, which likely would last longer than 15 minutes; P2Pool seems like an excellent alternative in case of massive DDoS attacks on pools, so Im not sure what your point is.


Title: Re: [58 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: bitlane on November 01, 2011, 10:42:16 PM

Not to crap on your post....or configuration for that matter...but, WHY IN HELL would you set a score-based (or any NON-PPS/Time Based/Share Expiring) Pool as your Backup/Failover Pool ?

Because I havent given it any thought, and I already had an account at slush before I discovered bitminer :). Since we are talking about like 5  proofs of work per day, I cant be bothered to find and register and configure a better suited failover pool :) That said, maybe I should, not because of 0.0001 BTC difference, but because slush appears to be down again. Guess I should go and try p2pool.

Nice and simple backup pool......

0% Fee, Immediate Credit/Payout, Pure PPS, Good Reviews.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.0  ...or...  http://www.abcpool.co/

ENJOY !


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 01, 2011, 10:43:59 PM
Yeah. P2ppol is PPLNS which would brutally punish you for leaving during a block (much like Bitminter).


Backup pool is likely to be rarely uses so it should be a PPS or SMPPS or ESMPPS.  You could also use Prop pool but given the income you lose to intentional hoppers and the fact there are lots of good PPS based pools I wouldn't.  Score based and PPLNS would be the worst if you will be using them for variable amounts of time.

On edit:  I have since learned this is incorrect.  Using PPLNS intermittently will not reduce your expected reward it does however have variability so it you use it infrequently and for short periods of time the payout can vary significantly (form significantly greater than expected value to significantly less or nothing).


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Eveofwar on November 01, 2011, 10:48:07 PM
Im familiar enough with them, Im just not bothered. Partially because I dont earn my living from mining, partially because since I joined bitminter, its been offline for all of 15 minutes. Ive only recently configured a failover at all, just in case bitminter would could under attack from DDoS, which likely would last longer than 15 minutes; P2Pool seems like an excellent alternative in case of massive DDoS attacks on pools, so Im not sure what your point is.

They use PPLNS, which is going to rape your earnings when you leave early.

Why don't you just solo mine then, if you aren't worried about your return and concerned so much with downtime ?

That 15 minutes spent on Ars or ABCPool is much more beneficial to you, but do as you please.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Aexoden on November 01, 2011, 10:48:27 PM
Yeah. P2ppol is PPLNS which would brutally punish you for leaving during a block (much like Bitminter).


Backup pool is likely to be rarely uses so it should be a PPS or SMPPS or ESMPPS.  You could also use Prop pool but given the income you lose to intentional hoppers and the fact there are lots of good PPS based pools I wouldn't.  Score based and PPLNS would be the worst if you will be using them for variable amounts of time.
The expected value of a share under PPLNS is exactly the same as the expected value of a share under *PPS (ignoring the possibility of the collapsing SMPPS pool for the moment). With PPLNS there will be more variance in what each share actually gets paid (sometimes nothing, sometimes once, sometimes several times), but on average, the payout will be the same. There's no good reason to avoid using a PPLNS pool as a failover unless you really don't like any sort of variance.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 01, 2011, 11:11:00 PM
They use PPLNS, which is going to rape your earnings when you leave early.

Why don't you just solo mine then, if you aren't worried about your return and concerned so much with downtime ?

That 15 minutes spent on Ars or ABCPool is much more beneficial to you, but do as you please.

Like I said, I didnt configure the failover to protect me from 15 minutes every 2 months, its there if bitminter comes under a DDoS attack; I dont expect it to recover until the attack stops. By that time a pool like slush will have solved many dozens of blocks and whatever I would lose compared to another pool seems statistically irrelevant. p2pool is a good alternative for the simple reason it can not be ddos'd. If even a small pool like bitminter comes under attack, there is fair chance all of the other pools will already be down.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Eveofwar on November 01, 2011, 11:15:43 PM
They use PPLNS, which is going to rape your earnings when you leave early.

Why don't you just solo mine then, if you aren't worried about your return and concerned so much with downtime ?

That 15 minutes spent on Ars or ABCPool is much more beneficial to you, but do as you please.

Like I said, I didnt configure the failover to protect me from 15 minutes every 2 months, its there if bitminter comes under a DDoS attack; I dont expect it to recover until the attack stops. By that time a pool like slush will have solved many dozens of blocks and whatever I would lose compared to another pool seems statistically irrelevant. p2pool is a good alternative for the simple reason it can not be ddos'd. If even a small pool like bitminter comes under attack, there is fair chance all of the other pools will already be down.

Your method of thinking if fatally flawed.  Best of luck to you.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Aexoden on November 01, 2011, 11:49:11 PM
That isn't true. PPLNS is punitive unless you stay for the full N (number of shares defined by the pool).  With PPLNS you acheive full value by staying longer than the N value.  Short random periods of activity will net you a tiny fraction of your equitable share.

Trust me I poolhopped for 3+ months.  PPLNS is punitive to pool hoppers.  If you are using it as a backup pool you are essentially a dumb/blind poolhopper (you have no control over when you hop in or out).

It isn't punitive to anyone. Over time, everyone will receive an equal payout corresponding to the number of submitted shares. The only effect of being an intermittent miner (such as a pool hopper) is that your payouts will vary more (sometimes less, sometimes more). For instance, if N is equal to the difficulty, a given share will be paid a number of times with the following probabilities:
  • No payouts: 36.79%
  • 1 payout: 36.79%
  • 2 payouts: 18.39%
  • 3 payouts: 6.13%
  • 4 payouts: 1.53%
  • 5 payouts: 0.31%
The probability of six or more payouts is there, but shrinking very quickly. The weighted average of the samples I gave is 0.9963 payouts per share. If I included 6 payouts and more, the average would be 1 payout per share. No matter what, on average, you will receive the same payout for your work on a PPLNS pool as you will at a PPS pool (assuming equal fees).

Yes, your shares may suddenly become worthless if more than N shares pass by without a block being found, but there is no way to predict when this will happen, and 63% of the time a share will be paid at least once.

In the case of the short bursts of activity, you will still receive your equitable share for the comparatively few shares you submitted, but because of the risk of not being paid at all, again, the variance will be higher. In those 31 out of 10000 instances when your short burst of work is paid out five times, you'll be making back what you "lost". Of course, this is all on average, and if you're looking at periods as short as a week or three, you may not feel you're getting your fair share. If variance bothers you, use a PPS pool. However, there remains no long-term mathematical reason to avoid PPLNS as a backup.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 02, 2011, 06:44:07 AM
Perfect explanation, Aexoden. :)

Averaged out over time zero-fee PPLNS pays the same as zero-fee PPS.

Yes, PPLNS has higher variance than some other payment methods. I still chose it as I believe it strikes a good balance. It gives miners fair payments without risking the pool going bankrupt.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 03, 2011, 04:11:07 AM
A suggestion for the Live stats: how about showing my % of work done in the current block/shift, and the number of proofs of work accepted by the server in the current block?


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 03, 2011, 08:57:35 AM
A suggestion for the Live stats: how about showing my % of work done in the current block/shift, and the number of proofs of work accepted by the server in the current block?

Thank you, that's a great idea!  Added to my list. :)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: btc_artist on November 03, 2011, 02:58:40 PM
The only thing keeping me from signing up and trying BitMinter is having OpenID shoved down my throat.  Have the option for OpenID, but have a local signup option as well.  (You still have to track the accounts internally anyway, so adding a non-OpenID signup shouldn't be that bad).


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 03, 2011, 03:17:41 PM
The only thing keeping me from signing up and trying BitMinter is having OpenID shoved down my throat.  Have the option for OpenID, but have a local signup option as well.  (You still have to track the accounts internally anyway, so adding a non-OpenID signup shouldn't be that bad).

What is wrong with OpenID?  The purpose is to remove the responsibility of safeguarding passwords properly from the website and to reduce the number of passwords users need to remember (and prevent password duplication).  Adding internal passwords kinda defeats the entire purpose of OpenID.



Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: allten on November 03, 2011, 03:19:20 PM
Maybe it has already been covered in this thread, but has bitminter considered doing merged mining?
I wouldn't mind having some NMC to dump on the market. It's use is over hyped in my opinion.
With the ability to store anything in the block chain, Bitcoin could easily evolve to cover an entire host
of solutions such as this.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Turbor on November 03, 2011, 08:07:25 PM
Maybe it has already been covered in this thread, but has bitminter considered doing merged mining?
I wouldn't mind having some NMC to dump on the market. It's use is over hyped in my opinion.
With the ability to store anything in the block chain, Bitcoin could easily evolve to cover an entire host
of solutions such as this.


DrHaribo is working on it  ;)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 03, 2011, 08:12:13 PM
Maybe it has already been covered in this thread, but has bitminter considered doing merged mining?
I wouldn't mind having some NMC to dump on the market. It's use is over hyped in my opinion.
With the ability to store anything in the block chain, Bitcoin could easily evolve to cover an entire host
of solutions such as this.


Which would be a horrible idea.  It would link domain costs to price of Bitcoins despite the fact that demand for Bitcoins likely will never match demand for domain names.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: allten on November 03, 2011, 08:36:22 PM
Maybe it has already been covered in this thread, but has bitminter considered doing merged mining?
I wouldn't mind having some NMC to dump on the market. It's use is over hyped in my opinion.
With the ability to store anything in the block chain, Bitcoin could easily evolve to cover an entire host
of solutions such as this.


Which would be a horrible idea.  It would link domain costs to price of Bitcoins despite the fact that demand for Bitcoins likely will never match demand for domain names.

Who said anything about linking prices? They would just be paying for space in the block chain to the miners.
What we need is for someone to come up with a pricing shceme for space in the block for non bitcoin transactions.
One idea of mine is to have two fee: one that goes to the miners and one that goes into a savings that will
compliment miner rewards after mining all 21 million coins. Need to get my but in gear and write a paper for presentation.



Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 03, 2011, 08:42:38 PM
There is finite space in each block. There is no reason to have a seperate fee for non-transactions.  You take up space you pay the fee. 

If transaction volume is high and thus space is at a premium it will raise the cost of domain names (even if domain names are low).  "Wait almost nobody uses .bit and it cost $87 a year to register a domain?". 

On the other hand if transaction volume is low but somehow .bit takes off it would drive up transaction fees.  Kinda hard to convince someone to use Bitcoin when nobody is using it and yet fees are still higher than credit cards.

There is absolutely no good reason to put domain data in the blockchain.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 03, 2011, 09:02:07 PM
And now for something else.
I got my 5870 last week, but boy; was it hot: 85+C with stock cooler and at stock speed; 90-100C on the VRMs, that is just too hot for me.  I hate hot; so I took care of it, big time:

http://s8.postimage.org/heziy94sh/SDC10724.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/heziy94sh/)

http://s8.postimage.org/h4s0ewq69/SDC10725.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/h4s0ewq69/)

Isnt that just cool?
You bet it is;

The 5870 at 900 MHz with Sptifire runs now at a stunning 45C tops! with an old crap fan at 7v. The VRMs are around 60C
The 5850 at 775 MHz with the battlexe cooler tops at 54C; no VRM sensor, so I dont know

BTW, nothing beats the spitfire, but that battle-axe cooler is amazing value. You can find them online for like 20 dollar and I bought them for 6 euro each, expecting them to be pretty crapy and thinking I could at least use the fans; but they are not crap, they are superb. Significantly better than the Accelero twin turbo or the Twin Frozr II coolers. They do take 3 slots, but they are cheap as chips and give incredible performance for the money.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 04, 2011, 08:19:06 AM
An issue on the server causing some lag. Working on it.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 04, 2011, 08:42:02 AM
Back to normal. Sorry for the instability.

It stopped after a few minutes by itself, before I could really figure out what it was. If it was a botnet visiting, sorry, we can't handle that kind of load yet. ;)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 04, 2011, 08:54:42 AM
The only thing keeping me from signing up and trying BitMinter is having OpenID shoved down my throat.  Have the option for OpenID, but have a local signup option as well.  (You still have to track the accounts internally anyway, so adding a non-OpenID signup shouldn't be that bad).

I think OpenID is convenient for most users. But yes, I could add password login as an option. My TODO-list is very long though, so I have to prioritize. Anyone else who would like login by password please let me know. Higher demand means higher priority.

Maybe it has already been covered in this thread, but has bitminter considered doing merged mining?

Merged mining needs a little more testing before it is ready. But I am almost certain that we start merged mining sometime today.

The 5870 at 900 MHz with Sptifire runs now at a stunning 45C tops! with an old crap fan at 7v. The VRMs are around 60C
The 5850 at 775 MHz with the battlexe cooler tops at 54C; no VRM sensor, so I dont know

Sweet!  8)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 04, 2011, 09:26:19 AM
Back to normal. Sorry for the instability.

It stopped after a few minutes by itself, before I could really figure out what it was. If it was a botnet visiting, sorry, we can't handle that kind of load yet. ;)

Its not over.. still hickups


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 04, 2011, 09:49:41 AM
Its not over.. still hickups

Looks like it came back for a minute or two, then went away again.

It appears for a while we've been getting many times the normal amount of getwork requests on the pool server. Could be that someone connected a botnet and left when they saw the server couldn't handle the load.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: btc_artist on November 04, 2011, 11:27:14 AM
What is wrong with OpenID?  The purpose is to remove the responsibility of safeguarding passwords properly from the website and to reduce the number of passwords users need to remember (and prevent password duplication).  Adding internal passwords kinda defeats the entire purpose of OpenID.
I prefer a separation of concerns.  I use a different passphrase (and often a different username) for every site I sign up for.  If I were to use OpenID to sign into all sites, and someone were to get my OpenID passphrase, they would have access to *all* sites I'm registered with.  If I want to use OpenID *and* have separate passphrases for each site, then I would need a new OpenID identity for each site, which is much more complex than simply registering for each site.  $0.02.

I think OpenID is convenient for most users. But yes, I could add password login as an option. My TODO-list is very long though, so I have to prioritize. Anyone else who would like login by password please let me know. Higher demand means higher priority.
Thanks for considering it, kind sir!


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 04, 2011, 11:34:33 AM
If someone hacks my openid, their access to my bitminter account is among the least of my concerns. The worst they could do is pay themselves out my share until I find out, assuming there are even pending payments, thats not gonna change my life. Why dont you create an openid that you use for similar "doesnt really matter" sites?


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: btc_artist on November 04, 2011, 11:37:52 AM
Why dont you create an openid that you use for similar "doesnt really matter" sites?
I already have numerous OpenID identities.  I'm just saying it's easier and less complex to manage X user/password combinations than the same number of OpenID identities.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 04, 2011, 02:08:56 PM
I prefer a separation of concerns.  I use a different passphrase (and often a different username) for every site I sign up for.  If I were to use OpenID to sign into all sites, and someone were to get my OpenID passphrase, they would have access to *all* sites I'm registered with.  If I want to use OpenID *and* have separate passphrases for each site, then I would need a new OpenID identity for each site, which is much more complex than simply registering for each site.  $0.02.

I likely won't convince you but there are some OpenID providers which support 2 factor authentication which provides more security than seperate passwords.  If an attacker gains your passphrase it is likely because he has a trojan on your system.  Which means he gains every username/password for every site you login.

With 2 factor authentication I could tell you my passphrase right now and you couldn't gain access to any of my OpenID sites.  Verisign is one.  Google is another.  Google system is nice because as a backup they will call a pre-registered phone (my home phone) and give you the current 2nd factor code in case you don't have access to your token.

As great as Bitminer is I doubt DrHaribo has the resources to implement 2 factor authenticate anytime soon.  Using OpenID makes my login to BitMinter more secure than any other pool currently operating (and sadly more secure than TradeHill).  If TradeHill supported OpenID I would instantly gain 2 factor authentication there too for free.

I got no problem w/ DrHaribo adding low security paswords if people want that I just hope any implementation doesn't compromise the security of OpenID.  Also he has a lot of other things to work on.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: btc_artist on November 04, 2011, 03:43:47 PM
I likely won't convince you but there are some OpenID providers which support 2 factor authentication which provides more security than seperate passwords.  If an attacker gains your passphrase it is likely because he has a trojan on your system.  Which means he gains every username/password for every site you login.

With 2 factor authentication I could tell you my passphrase right now and you couldn't gain access to any of my OpenID sites.  Verisign is one.  Google is another.  Google system is nice because as a backup they will call a pre-registered phone (my home phone) and give you the current 2nd factor code in case you don't have access to your token.

As great as Bitminer is I doubt DrHaribo has the resources to implement 2 factor authenticate anytime soon.  Using OpenID makes my login to BitMinter more secure than any other pool currently operating (and sadly more secure than TradeHill).  If TradeHill supported OpenID I would instantly gain 2 factor authentication there too for free.

I got no problem w/ DrHaribo adding low security paswords if people want that I just hope any implementation doesn't compromise the security of OpenID.  Also he has a lot of other things to work on.

Fair enough. You do have some good points.  Personally, I hope DrHaribo implements local accounts, but I do realize it's not at the top of the priority list.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 04, 2011, 09:47:06 PM
I just put in merged mining and restarted the pool backend.

jay9228 made a namecoin block after 1 minute. Nice work, Jay - we are off to a good start!

Still TODO:
  • Make it possible to enter an auto cash out NMC address on the website. Hopefully this will be working before the first NMC block is confirmed.
  • Make the BitMinter client react to long poll notifications even when the bitcoin parent block hasn't changed. The server is currently registering a lot of NMC stales because of this.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 04, 2011, 10:00:40 PM
li]Make the BitMinter client react to long poll notifications even when the bitcoin parent block hasn't changed. The server is currently registering a lot of NMC stales because of this.[/li][/list]

Don't feel bad a lot of other miners including cgminer do the same thing.  To anyone concerned at most it would reduce the NMC blocks found which is essentially a bonus to the BTC being earned.  Still getting >100% compared to BTC only mining.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Digigami on November 04, 2011, 10:02:14 PM
wohoo! me = jay9228

guess its time to get a namecoin client installed then eh?


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: Tartarus on November 04, 2011, 10:05:59 PM
wohoo! me = jay9228

guess its time to get a namecoin client installed then eh?

Not necessarily, if you're just going to go off and trade them, just set it to where you're trading :)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: P4man on November 04, 2011, 10:16:39 PM
Not necessarily, if you're just going to go off and trade them, just set it to where you're trading :)

Wouldnt hurry though. NMCs are trading for .. not very much. Barely covers the transaction fees to send them anywhere :)

Suggestion for DrHaribo; provide an option to donate the NMCs. Or just post your NMC address.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** 150 BTC promotion! * 6-11% MORE BITCOINS ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 04, 2011, 10:23:10 PM
wohoo! me = jay9228

guess its time to get a namecoin client installed then eh?

Well the pool has nowhere to setup withdraw of NMC so you got a little time.  Still under optimal conditions NMC may be worth up to 8% of your BTC earnings.  8% NMC "bonus" plus 5% "pool bonus.  Pretty sweet to get up to 13% extra (plus fees) compared to other pools.


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 04, 2011, 10:43:05 PM
60th block is almost upon us though. Not that I have intentions of switching after the promotion runs out, the pool works great, fees are low and I like mining for a smaller pool; its good for bitcoin and it makes things just a tad more exciting :)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 04, 2011, 11:09:22 PM
True words. DrHaribo does a good job. Hope to add my FPGA to the pool soon *dream*


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: bronan on November 05, 2011, 08:38:28 AM
60th block is almost upon us though. Not that I have intentions of switching after the promotion runs out, the pool works great, fees are low and I like mining for a smaller pool; its good for bitcoin and it makes things just a tad more exciting :)
I could not have said it better :D
I like the pool and the admin does whatever he can to make it good and smooth for all to use.
[ greedy mode on ]
So this far its the one i like the most and the bonus well, more more more xD
[ greedy mode off ]


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 05, 2011, 03:49:04 PM
One block to go.  Does anyone have updated banners which don't mention 150 free BTC (possibly adding "merged mining").

I would offer to make one but my art skills are so bad it likely would drive traffic away.   ::)


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 05, 2011, 03:55:04 PM
One block to go.  Does anyone have updated banners which don't mention 150 free BTC (possibly adding "merged mining").

Ah good point. I wasnt sure when Haribo would be done with the dynamic banners, but let me post an interim static one without the promotion and Ill add merged mining. Must also update my own hash rate :p. Consider it done when I get home in a few hours.

Edit: forgot I had uploaded the templates to ubuntu one cloud, so here you are:
edit: hang on, typo in there


Title: Re: [65 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 05, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
One block to go.

I'm going to pay 5% extra per BTC block until we have 60 BTC blocks. So 3 blocks to go as I write this.

I think it would be sneaky for me to switch the promotion from BTC to NMC. NMC is very low value compared to BTC. I just need to update the website to say 60 BTC blocks instead of simply "60 blocks".

I wasnt sure when Haribo would be done with the dynamic banners, but let me post an interim static one without the promotion and Ill add merged mining. Must also update my own hash rate :p. Consider it done when I get home in a few hours.

Sounds great! I just need to update some things on the website to reflect the changes from merged mining. After that it is banners, and then some updates for the client (miner).


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 05, 2011, 04:23:35 PM
Okay here is one without promotion and mentioning merge mining; just quick and dirty:

http://s4.postimage.org/cg1cvksu5/bitminter_generic_speedo.png


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 05, 2011, 06:55:31 PM
Question about efficiency/stales.

Have a look at this screenshot:

http://s9.postimage.org/8lnn9wer3/Untitled.png

The top window is my dedicated mining rig, its using linux and with a 5870+5850. It achieves 94% efficiency, where efficiency is calculated by cgminer apparently by dividing queued shares (Q) by accepted shares (A).

Then check the bottom window, its my everyday PC, running windows atm, with a 5850. Its only getting 79% efficiency. Since the number of rejected shares (R) is low on both, there are no hardware errors (HW), Im confused. Whats happening with the other shares? Why is this machine so much less "efficient"?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 05, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Question about efficiency/stales.

Have a look at this screenshot:

http://s9.postimage.org/8lnn9wer3/Untitled.png

The top window is my dedicated mining rig, its using linux and with a 5870+5850. It achieves 94% efficiency, where efficiency is calculated by cgminer apparently by dividing queued shares (Q) by accepted shares (A).

Then check the bottom window, its my everyday PC, running windows atm, with a 5850. Its only getting 79% efficiency. Since the number of rejected shares (R) is low on both, there are no hardware errors (HW), Im confused. Whats happening with the other shares? Why is this machine so much less "efficient"?

Efficiency doesn't mean you are losing anything it simply means the bottom miner is requesting more work than it can accomplish.  Smaller rigs tend to be less efficient (especially w/ cgminer which pre-requests work to keep the queue full).  79% is pretty low but I haven't ever run a single card rig so it might not be that abnormal.

As a miner you lose nothing by having low efficiency.  A pool operator would be more concerned with efficiency because it determines how many getworks are required to generate a give number of shares.  Not sure if BitMinter implement s NTimeRolling.  If it doesn't and that is added it would improve the efficiency.

TL/DR version:  efficiency is only a measure of server-miner communication efficiency.  100% = 1 getwork = 1 share.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 05, 2011, 07:21:57 PM
Allright, thanks for clearing that up!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 05, 2011, 07:47:15 PM
Looking back in my long rambling answer I noticed I never answered the direct question "where did the other shares go". 

They were discarded BEFORE working.  cgminer records that as DW

cgminer is a little more advanced that other miners once you request a getwork() it can end one of four places:

A is Accepted Share (what we want.  Work submitted and credit given by pool)
R is Rejected Share (Work submitted but rejected by pool)
SS is Stale Shares discarded (work completed but not submitted because already stale - just as bad as rejected)
DW is Discarded Work items (discard work because it went stale before work began - puts more loan on server but no GPU time is wasted)

Often people look only at R but cgminer doesn't submit work it knows is stale so really you should look at R + SS both are work you did and won't get credit for.

I find the most useful metric is U (Utility.  How many ACCEPTED shares per minute do I generate).  A high U(tility) means high revenue.  U is subject to variance so I really only look at it after cgminer has been running for 4 hours+.

With my 3x5970 rigs I try to maintain ~30 shares/min.  Man I thought this one was going to be short ... failed again.  ;D



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 05, 2011, 08:10:45 PM
Looking back in my long rambling answer I noticed I never answered the direct question "where did the other shares go".  

They were discarded BEFORE working.  cgminer records that as DW

I figured that much, but thanks for the long answer :)

Quote
I find the most useful metric is U (Utility.  How many ACCEPTED shares per minute do I generate).  A high U(tility) means high revenue.  U is subject to variance so I really only look at it after cgminer has been running for 4 hours+.

With my 3x5970 rigs I try to maintain ~30 shares/min.  Man I thought this one was going to be short ... failed again.  ;D

You're such a fountain of wisdom! That was the one question lingering in my mind, what that "u" meant exactly. Intuition told me it was a good proxy for performance.

BTW, 30 shares per minute, so 5 per gpu ?  Seems lowish to me. Have you underclocked and undervolted those 5970s? Thing is, Im getting exactly 5 share per minute per core on average with my considerably cheaper (*) GPU cores (and not even seriously overclocked due to linux limitations).

(*) okay, they would have been cheaper if I wasnt so anal about keeping temps low. If I factor in the cost of that spitfire and the other coolers, its not that cheap anymore, but the ease of mind that 46C peak temperature on the 5870 @ 900 MHz  gives me is priceless :D.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 05, 2011, 08:18:45 PM
30 shares per minute is 2.14GH/s effective.  Actually I double checked and for last 48 hour it was closer to 32 shares per minute. Remember no card is 100% efficiency (stales, delayed work, downtime, card throttling, etc).  U is your actual useful work so that is pretty decent.

I have found that the speed that produce ~2.3GH/s tend to work the best for me.  Clocking higher nets me more shares but then when a rig locks up (even if only once a week) the downtime erases any gains.  Likely if I wanted to keep a closer eye on the rigs I could another 10% more out of them.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 05, 2011, 11:12:01 PM
SS is Stale Shares discarded (work completed but not submitted because already stale - just as bad as rejected)

When merged mining this is a bad idea. The proof of work may not be valid on the bitcoin chain, but it could still be valid on the namecoin chain. One might potentially throw away a proof of work that would have been able to create a namecoin block.

By the way, it is now possible to enter an NMC cash out address on the website and collect your namecoins. More website updates coming soon.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 05, 2011, 11:25:48 PM
SS is Stale Shares discarded (work completed but not submitted because already stale - just as bad as rejected)

When merged mining this is a bad idea. The proof of work may not be valid on the bitcoin chain, but it could still be valid on the namecoin chain. One might potentially throw away a proof of work that would have been able to create a namecoin block.

By the way, it is now possible to enter an NMC cash out address on the website and collect your namecoins. More website updates coming soon.


Some of us have pointed this out and the author is working on an updated version of cgminer which doesn't assume blocks are stale unless it receives an LP.

Right now there is a command line option which will force cgminer to submit all completed shares regardless of it if thinks they are stale.  Of course that puts more work load on the server.  Hopefully the next version of cgminer will strike a better balance.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 05, 2011, 11:52:54 PM
Right now there is a command line option which will force cgminer to submit all completed shares regardless of it if thinks they are stale.  Of course that puts more work load on the server.  Hopefully the next version of cgminer will strike a better balance.

Yes, it puts a little more load on the server. But for creating the most blocks this is the best option.

The miner has no idea how many chains you are merged mining on the server. It doesn't know whether its proof of work is stale or valid for those chains. And it doesn't know if it passes the difficulty of those chains either. Best it can do is just send in every proof of work.

This will make the number of rejected proofs of work go up on both client and server. So it won't look so pretty. But it's the best option for creating the most blocks.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 05, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
Right now there is a command line option which will force cgminer to submit all completed shares regardless of it if thinks they are stale.  Of course that puts more work load on the server.  Hopefully the next version of cgminer will strike a better balance.

Yes, it puts a little more load on the server. But for creating the most blocks this is the best option.

The miner has no idea how many chains you are merged mining on the server. It doesn't know whether its proof of work is stale or valid for those chains. And it doesn't know if it passes the difficulty of those chains either. Best it can do is just send in every proof of work.

This will make the number of rejected proofs of work go up on both client and server. So it won't look so pretty. But it's the best option for creating the most blocks.


If anyone is interested the option in cgminer is "--submit-stale".

Some/most of the SS actually are stale so they will become R.  Hopefully some of the SS are usable by the pool and thus become A.  So one would expect to see both R & A numbers rise and DW numbers to go to zero.  Personally I haven't used it because the number of SS tend to be very low anyways (really would only occur on a NMC block change that isn't a BTC block change and before the next getwork() which is a really small window).


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 12:11:45 AM
I think something might be wrong with the merged mining.

Our "luck" has been incredibly bad soo bad I think there may be some sort of a bug.  I don't blame Dr.Haribo as merged mining is fraked.  The protocol is poorly documented and it is very easy to create subtle bugs.

Still the difficulty for NMC is only 200,000 (roughly 8x easier) than BTC.  By my math (which may be wrong) we are at the 99.995% pertcentile (CDF) in the current block for NMC.

More simplistically since starting merged mining we have completed roughly 1.8M shares and found 2 NMC blocks.  The average/expected gain would be 9 blocks.  Now there is always variance but either we are incredibly unlucky not just in this block but since starting merged mining or there is some sort of bug.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 12:44:48 AM
Yes, I just saw in the logs something is going wrong with NMC block creation. Sorry guys. :(

Difficulty is so high on NMC testnet it's not easy to test merged mining well. After a full day of no errors and 7 created NMC blocks, it looked pretty stable.

Sorry for short downtime just now, I was restarting the pool backend.

Working on fixing this now..


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 06, 2011, 12:47:38 AM
Your bitminter just asked for a password, and quite effectively killed all the pools hashs..

Im loging back in on all my machines...  :(


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 12:56:11 AM
Yes, I just saw in the logs something is going wrong with NMC block creation. Sorry guys. :(

Difficulty is so high on NMC testnet it's not easy to test merged mining well. After a full day of no errors and 7 created NMC blocks, it looked pretty stable.

Sorry for short downtime just now, I was restarting the pool backend.

Working on fixing this now..


I figured.  Don't feel too bad every pool that implemented merged mining had more than one "glitch".  Slush founds some issues with the back end resulting in less than expected block generation.  Not sure what he found but that was like a week into merged mining.

As great of an idea as merged mining is they certainly took an asstastic route to implementation.  Buggy code, difficulty testing, incomplete docs.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 01:09:12 AM
Your bitminter just asked for a password, and quite effectively killed all the pools hashs..

Im loging back in on all my machines...  :(

Damnit. Very sorry for this. A bug decided to return 401 Unauthorized instead of 500 Internal error. Looks like that was enough to knock half the miners off the pool. :(

Working on that one too.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on November 06, 2011, 01:29:55 AM
I was wondering why it was getting so cold in here.. I have the miners setup to heat the house!


Well I guess I know what im doing tonight! damn headless miners!  :P


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 01:38:06 AM
I was wondering why it was getting so cold in here.. I have the miners setup to heat the house!


Well I guess I know what im doing tonight! damn headless miners!  :P

I use linuxcoin w/ usb drive and a script to launch cgminer on boot (everything is set from config file).  If miners stop mining I just powercycle them and 99% of the time that solves everything.  I can tell if the rig launches cgminer just by sounds.  Power on .... wait 45 seconds or so for linuxcoin to launch ... wait for it.  VRRRROOOOOOMMM gpu fans kick up to 70% and I know it is back hashing.  ;D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on November 06, 2011, 02:02:07 AM

I use linuxcoin w/ usb drive and a script to launch cgminer on boot.  If miners stop mining I just powercycle them and 99% of the time that solves everything.  I can tell if the rig launches cgminer just by sounds.  Power on .... wait 45 seconds or so for linuxcoin to launch ... wait for it.  VRRRROOOOOOMMM gpu fans kick up to 70% and I know it is back hashing.  ;D

Pretty much how I HAD mine setup, but I redid everything when I  started using the bitminter client.. I got lazy and didn't setup anything to start up on reboot :(

I also lost the tip of a finger tonight when I stuck it into the fan of a 6970 while trying to power cycle a machine  :'(

I would so much like to start bitminter from the command line :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on November 06, 2011, 02:27:01 AM
 ;D All fixed! now to play some BF3... I noticed that bitminter and BF3 seem to work ok together... left it running by mistake and was kinda surprised the system didn't hang or something.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 02:34:45 AM
I also lost the tip of a finger tonight when I stuck it into the fan of a 6970 while trying to power cycle a machine  :'(

Ouch. :(

I would so much like to start bitminter from the command line :)

Automation options (like auto start mining when the program starts) will be coming soon. I'll work on the miner after a few more NMC-related updates on the website + doing the dynamic banners.

I just restarted the pool server process again. I fixed a bug that would tell you your password was wrong if the credential checking code was unable to get your hashed worker password from the database. I also fixed a bug in creating the so-called auxiliary proof of work that allows you to create an NMC block even though you were mining BTC.

This was a bug that caused NMC block creation to fail when the BTC block it was mined with contained many transactions. Of course that rarely happens on the testnet - you don't see a lot of transactions there.

Perhaps I should take the time to create my own testnet with transaction activity to mimic the real net. But I really have enough to do just implementing what's necessary. Merged mining was a lot of work.

I so hate to see something fail in a production system. Thank you very much for your patience, I really appreciate it.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 03:39:39 AM
There we go, finally an NMC block created again. Thanks for finishing that, teflone. :)

Obviously the number of proofs for block #60 looks ridiculous because of the bug. Hopefully no more problems with merged mining going forward. *knock on wood*


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 06, 2011, 03:53:11 AM
There we go, finally an NMC block created again. Thanks for finishing that, teflone. :)

Obviously the number of proofs for block #60 looks ridiculous because of the bug. Hopefully no more problems with merged mining going forward. *knock on wood*


Ill take that bit cent thank you! ;)


Just saw the extra options on the site for name coin addy..

Good job, keep it up..




Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Tartarus on November 06, 2011, 04:36:03 AM
SS is Stale Shares discarded (work completed but not submitted because already stale - just as bad as rejected)

When merged mining this is a bad idea. The proof of work may not be valid on the bitcoin chain, but it could still be valid on the namecoin chain. One might potentially throw away a proof of work that would have been able to create a namecoin block.

By the way, it is now possible to enter an NMC cash out address on the website and collect your namecoins. More website updates coming soon.


Some of us have pointed this out and the author is working on an updated version of cgminer which doesn't assume blocks are stale unless it receives an LP.

I believe this change has been pushed to the git tree at least, so anyone that builds from source can pull, rebuild and relaunch.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 06, 2011, 08:30:52 AM

Pretty much how I HAD mine setup, but I redid everything when I  started using the bitminter client.. I got lazy and didn't setup anything to start up on reboot :(

I would so much like to start bitminter from the command line :)

Just curious, why did you switch to bitminter? As much as I like the app for tech unsavvy users who want to run a miner on their everyday desktops without having to struggle to get anything running, I dont see the point of running it on headless dedicated machines. Particularly when you have a farm as big as yours, I wouldnt dream of not using cgminer with failover pools.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Eveofwar on November 06, 2011, 08:31:43 AM

Pretty much how I HAD mine setup, but I redid everything when I  started using the bitminter client.. I got lazy and didn't setup anything to start up on reboot :(

I would so much like to start bitminter from the command line :)

Just curious, why did you switch to bitminter? As much as I like the app for tech unsavvy users who want to run a miner on their everyday desktops without having to struggle to get anything running, I dont see the point of running it on headless dedicated machines. Particularly when you have a farm as big as yours, I wouldnt dream of not using cgminer with failover pools.

You can create custom miners and still connect to BitMinter with CGMiner...which is what should be done.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 06, 2011, 08:37:21 AM
You can create custom miners and still connect to BitMinter with CGMiner...which is what should be done.

Thats what I meant, why he switched to bitminter client  (not the pool). With a farm like that, cgminer seems like an obvious choice.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 06, 2011, 11:59:58 AM
It was a cold night over here but i'm glad, that all is back to normal  :P


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 03:10:15 PM
Anyone else showing "?" for all shares in shift history?  ???


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 06, 2011, 03:15:39 PM
Anyone else showing "?" for all shares in shift history?  ???

Looks like you are logged out  ;D ?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 03:16:21 PM
DOH.  ::)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 06, 2011, 03:23:09 PM
 :D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 07:10:48 PM
I have the suspicion that something is still not right w/ merged mining.

Since MM began we have mined 4.4 million shares and found 0 BTC and 3 NMC blocks.  That is significantly below the avg and likely far below what can be explained by variance.

On NMC side w/ 200K difficulty we would expect to find on average 22 blocks and we have found 3.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 06, 2011, 07:15:17 PM
 :( our luck has gone. I hope it changes soon  :'(


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 07:31:31 PM
I have the suspicion that something is still not right w/ merged mining.

Since MM began we have mined 4.4 million shares and found 0 BTC and 3 NMC blocks.  That is significantly below the avg and likely far below what can be explained by variance.

Since MM began we have 2245207 accepted proofs of work on NMC side and 116414 rejected. A little over 5% stale, because of the way some miners work, as mentioned earlier.

On NMC side w/ 200K difficulty we would expect to find on average 22 blocks and we have found 3.

We found 4, but without the bug it would have been more. :(

I'm currently babysitting the server, constantly watching for any problems in case there is another bug left in the merged mining code. Nothing wrong so far since the bugfix, only bad luck.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 07:34:43 PM
How the current NMC and BTC rounds look at the moment I am posting this:

Code:
coin | accepted | rejected
------+----------+----------
 NMC  |   255153 |    14332
 BTC  |  2413059 |     4714

Future updates for the website will show these numbers there.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 06, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
I have the suspicion that something is still not right w/ merged mining.

Since MM began we have mined 4.4 million shares and found 0 BTC and 3 NMC blocks.  That is significantly below the avg and likely far below what can be explained by variance.

Since MM began we have 2245207 accepted proofs of work on NMC side and 116414 rejected. A little over 5% stale, because of the way some miners work, as mentioned earlier.

On NMC side w/ 200K difficulty we would expect to find on average 22 blocks and we have found 3.

We found 4, but without the bug it would have been more. :(

I'm currently babysitting the server, constantly watching for any problems in case there is another bug left in the merged mining code. Nothing wrong so far since the bugfix, only bad luck.

My bad then I guess I was confused by looking at found blocks + current round stats in live stat view = 4.4 million shares but maybe there is some overlap.  Likely stats need to be separated to show current BTC block, current NMC block as well as a list of BTC blocks and a list of NMC blocks.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 07:50:19 PM
My bad then I guess I was confused by looking at found blocks + current round stats in live stat view = 4.4 million shares but maybe there is some overlap.  Likely stats need to be separated to show current BTC block, current NMC block as well as a list of BTC blocks and a list of NMC blocks.

Yep, if a proof of work is accepted for both chains, then it is counted for both. I intend to change the live stats so you can see how both BTC and NMC rounds are going.

I could also change the block list so you can filter to show only BTC or only NMC, if that is useful?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Digigami on November 06, 2011, 08:46:24 PM
Guys, we all might be stuck with our current sig images, attempting to change will mean you have no image

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51077.msg240368;topicseen#new


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 06, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
I could also change the block list so you can filter to show only BTC or only NMC, if that is useful?

I think it would be. Or make two colums, one for BTC one for NMC so its easy to see. While Im at it, perhaps email notification for new found (BTC) block would be nice. Or automated twitter feed or something.  I keep clicking that page to see if we finally found one :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 06, 2011, 10:06:19 PM
Name-minter....

That is all..

 ;D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 06, 2011, 10:31:00 PM
Mint or die ! :P

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/298145_266655596710732_100146036695023_761651_1360760655_n.jpg


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 06, 2011, 10:47:02 PM
Guys, we all might be stuck with our current sig images, attempting to change will mean you have no image

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51077.msg240368;topicseen#new

Bah... I was just about ready to start work on the dynamic signature banners. Wonder if there's any point now. And I love the way these banners look. :( Well, maybe they will allow banners with size restrictions, like suggested in that thread.

While Im at it, perhaps email notification for new found (BTC) block would be nice. Or automated twitter feed or something.  I keep clicking that page to see if we finally found one :)

Hmm. Or an IRC bot announcing such things. Or maybe a webpage with dynamic news updates. Need to think about this.

Quote
Mint or die ! :P

Yes, ma'm  ;D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 07, 2011, 02:10:38 PM
We just ended another loooooong round.
Cheers, and many thanks to Steamy.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 07, 2011, 02:26:00 PM
We just ended another loooooong round.
Cheers, and many thanks to Steamy.

What about Ronaghan...  and.. was that like the same hash given to namecoin a winner ?  weird..



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 07, 2011, 02:50:02 PM
We just ended another loooooong round.
Cheers, and many thanks to Steamy.

What about Ronaghan...  and.. was that like the same hash given to namecoin a winner ?  weird..

Each hash is checked against both Bitcoin and NameCoin target.
As bitcoin target is higher than namecoin all bitcoin solutions should also be namecoin solutions.

On edit:  Steamy also produced a NMC block & BTC block from same POW.



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 07, 2011, 03:24:57 PM
Steamy and Ronaghan discovered a new cheat: double blocks!  :D

Or it could be the more correct explanation given by DeathAndTaxes. By the way Steamy's proof of work also produced 2 blocks, 64 and 65.

By my count we now have 59 bitcoin blocks. So 1 more with +5% promotion pay. Get some proofs of work in before it is built!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 07, 2011, 03:33:08 PM
Steamy and Ronaghan discovered a new cheat: double blocks!  :D

Or it could be the more correct explanation given by DeathAndTaxes. By the way Steamy's proof of work also produced 2 blocks, 64 and 65.

By my count we now have 59 bitcoin blocks. So 1 more with +5% promotion pay. Get some proofs of work in before it is built!

Ah I see.  I was confused by the different block times but makes sense now.  I'll edit my post to not confuse other people.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 07, 2011, 05:45:46 PM
Nice, back in business. I was frustrated and tried out an other pool. What a joke... 5% stales... here i have 15577 shares and 8 stales at the moment. Never again.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 07, 2011, 10:13:06 PM
Nice, back in business. I was frustrated and tried out an other pool. What a joke... 5% stales... here i have 15577 shares and 8 stales at the moment. Never again.

:D Welcome back ;D

We do have some serious bad luck lately, though. To make sure we break the hex, we need all miners to follow these instructions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol2DedEhOGI


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 08, 2011, 07:24:06 PM
Maybe our luck is turning. 2 bitcoin and 8 namecoin blocks being confirmed right now. :D


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 08, 2011, 07:57:32 PM
What i don't understand is why sometimes a member finds a namecoin and a bitcoin block at the same time. If i count right we had 4 such doubles. Is that just coincidence ?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 08, 2011, 08:16:57 PM
What i don't understand is why sometimes a member finds a namecoin and a bitcoin block at the same time. If i count right we had 4 such doubles. Is that just coincidence ?

We should find a NMC block EVERYTIME we find a BTC block.

Remember there is only one block header.  The prior NMC block hash is put into coinbase transaction of the BTC block.


So
1) You get a block header to hash from the server.
2) You hash it and check if it matches difficulty for a share.
3) If it does you submit it to the server.
4a) Server checks if it matches difficulty target for BTC
4b) Server checks if it matches difficulty target for NMC

So each share can be:
a) worthless (just used to track work by miners to ensure fair payout)
b) solution for BTC block
c) solution for NMC block
d) solution for both BTC & NMC blocks.

Now right now (and likely in the future) BTC difficulty is HIGHER than NMC.  Thus any share which meets BTC difficulty target meets NMC target.  Using smaller numbers may make it easier to understand.

Say to solve a block you pick a random number between 1 & 100 for each share.
The current target for a valid BTC share is < 10.
The current target for a valid NMC share is < 40.

So:
a share w/ value of 41 is worthless. (type a above)
a share w/ value of 14 is valid for NMC but invalid for BTC (type c above)
a share w/ value of 9 is valid for both NMC & BTC (type d above)

Now you may be wondering how you get a type B.  It would only occur as a timing issue.    While any BTC hash meets the target for a NMC hash if the NMC block has changed the miner is working on a block that can never be a valid NMC hash (no matter how low of  hash is found).  A "perfect pool" (which isn't possible with current miners) would have a way to tell miner the to update the block but still submit work because it might be good for BTC.   Luckily this should be relatively rare.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 08, 2011, 08:29:23 PM
 ;) ahh thanks for that explanation !


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 08, 2011, 09:18:21 PM
wOOt. Found my second ever BTC block :)


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 08, 2011, 10:01:02 PM
What i don't understand is why sometimes a member finds a namecoin and a bitcoin block at the same time. If i count right we had 4 such doubles. Is that just coincidence ?

We should find a NMC block EVERYTIME we find a BTC block.

Remember there is only one block header.  The prior NMC block hash is put into coinbase transaction of the BTC block.


So
1) You get a block header to hash from the server.
2) You hash it and check if it matches difficulty for a share.
3) If it does you submit it to the server.
4a) Server checks if it matches difficulty target for BTC
4b) Server checks if it matches difficulty target for NMC

So each share can be:
a) worthless (just used to track work by miners to ensure fair payout)
b) solution for BTC block
c) solution for NMC block
d) solution for both BTC & NMC blocks.

Now right now (and likely in the future) BTC difficulty is HIGHER than NMC.  Thus any share which meets BTC difficulty target meets NMC target.  Using smaller numbers may make it easier to understand.

Say to solve a block you pick a random number between 1 & 100 for each share.
The current target for a valid BTC share is < 10.
The current target for a valid NMC share is < 40.

So:
a share w/ value of 41 is worthless. (type a above)
a share w/ value of 14 is valid for NMC but invalid for BTC (type c above)
a share w/ value of 9 is valid for both NMC & BTC (type d above)

Now you may be wondering how you get a type B.  It would only occur as a timing issue.    While any BTC hash meets the target for a NMC hash if the NMC block has changed the miner is working on a block that can never be a valid NMC hash (no matter how low of  hash is found).  A "perfect pool" (which isn't possible with current miners) would have a way to tell miner the to update the block but still submit work because it might be good for BTC.   Luckily this should be relatively rare.


I also dont understand why people are finding both, I read this a few times.. and it makes little sense to me..

Its very odd to me..

in a short concise sentence, why should who ever finds a Bitcoin block also find a namecoin.. ?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 08, 2011, 10:03:48 PM
in a short concise sentence, why should who ever finds a Bitcoin block also find a namecoin.. ?

Hmm not sure how to make it simpler.  There is no such thing as "finding a block".  Block are already known.  What we are looking for is a hash which is SMALLER than the TARGET required by the current DIFFICULTY.

Thus if a hash (any hash) is smaller than both Bitcoin and Namecoin targets it "solves" both blocks.  Since Bitcoin target is higher than namecoin target any hash which is small enough for Bitcoin will be by default also small enough for Namecoin.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Digigami on November 09, 2011, 12:11:26 AM
for curiosities sake, and since I didn't know the 'shares' we do submit qualify for a difficulty, what is that difficulty for an acceptable share?

Is that something that is set by the network, or by you DrHaribo?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 09, 2011, 12:15:47 AM
in a short concise sentence, why should who ever finds a Bitcoin block also find a namecoin.. ?

Hmm not sure how to make it simpler.  There is no such thing as "finding a block".  Block are already known.  What we are looking for is a hash which is SMALLER than the TARGET required by the current DIFFICULTY.

Thus if a hash (any hash) is smaller than both Bitcoin and Namecoin targets it "solves" both blocks.  Since Bitcoin target is higher than namecoin target any hash which is small enough for Bitcoin will be by default also small enough for Namecoin.

Whoa.. I realize I know nothing of the mechanics now..

I just thought they were separate networks of sorts.. Im surprised to find it works like this..


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 09, 2011, 12:24:24 AM
for curiosities sake, and since I didn't know the 'shares' we do submit qualify for a difficulty, what is that difficulty for an acceptable share?

Is that something that is set by the network, or by you DrHaribo?

Almost all pools use difficulty 1, which means on average 1 valid hash in 2^32 nonces.  This is a somewhat arbitrary decision.  There is no reason a pool couldn't use x difficulty (as long as x is less than actual difficulty).  The higher the difficulty the more variance in share generation.  The lower the difficulty the more shares the pool needs to verify.

One example of higher difficulty is p2pool.  Since shares have to be distributed p2p and verified by every peer obviously one wants a much higher difficulty.  I believe p2pool uses a difficulty of 1024.  Thus 1 p2pool share = 1024 Bitminter/slush/ars/etc shares.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Digigami on November 09, 2011, 01:00:08 AM
Ah, very good. Thanks


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 09, 2011, 12:43:50 PM
wOOt. Found my second ever BTC block :)

Congrats! :)

I just thought they were separate networks of sorts.. Im surprised to find it works like this..

They were completely separate networks until merged mining was invented. Merged mining is what makes it possible to create a namecoin block with a proof of work for a bitcoin block. So ever since merged mining, if a pool implements it, things work like DeathAndTaxes just explained. Very good explanations, by the way, DAT. :)

Before anyone asks, no, we can't add other coins. The auxiliary chain that you "merge" into your bitcoin mining has to support merged mining, and at the moment this is only supported by namecoins.

By the way, this morning we had a proof of work that could have created a namecoin block, but it was stale on the namecoin side. It's not good having 5% of proofs be stale on the NMC side. I'll get out an update for the BitMinter beta client soon (regular non-beta should be fine already). Does anyone know if a new cgminer has been released that works better with merged mining?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Tartarus on November 09, 2011, 02:28:19 PM
By the way, this morning we had a proof of work that could have created a namecoin block, but it was stale on the namecoin side. It's not good having 5% of proofs be stale on the NMC side. I'll get out an update for the BitMinter beta client soon (regular non-beta should be fine already). Does anyone know if a new cgminer has been released that works better with merged mining?

Still only fixed in git, afaics.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 09, 2011, 05:47:19 PM
By the way, this morning we had a proof of work that could have created a namecoin block, but it was stale on the namecoin side. It's not good having 5% of proofs be stale on the NMC side. I'll get out an update for the BitMinter beta client soon (regular non-beta should be fine already). Does anyone know if a new cgminer has been released that works better with merged mining?

So it's better to mine with the non-beta client for now ?


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 09, 2011, 08:38:07 PM
So it's better to mine with the non-beta client for now ?

Yes, the beta client is trying to be smart about stales, but instead creating extra stales on the namecoin side. I had not yet thought about merged mining when I made those changes.


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 09, 2011, 08:52:41 PM
I just realized there's an inconsistency in how stales are being registered now.

  • You only get your proof of work counted in the shifts if it is valid (non-stale) on the bitcoin side. Otherwise it is counted as rejected in the shift (not shown on website yet).
  • Your miner is told that the proof is accepted if it is valid on bitcoin OR namecoin.
  • Work done on blocks register accepted/rejected individually - no problem here. Not shown on website yet though.

I think it makes sense to change it so the miner is told the proof was accepted if it was included in the shift as accepted, otherwise the miner is told it is rejected?

Question is, should it be accepted if it is valid on either bitcoin or namecoin, or only when valid on the bitcoin side? I'm leaning towards shift+miner acceptance only when proofs are valid for bitcoin. The reason for this is 1. I think bitcoin is more important and 2. I don't want the pool to "pretend" everything is fine while you are actually producing massive stales (most proofs would still be valid for bitcoin OR namecoin).


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 09, 2011, 09:14:30 PM
I just realized there's an inconsistency in how stales are being registered now.

  • You only get your proof of work counted in the shifts if it is valid (non-stale) on the bitcoin side. Otherwise it is counted as rejected in the shift (not shown on website yet).
  • Your miner is told that the proof is accepted if it is valid on bitcoin OR namecoin.
  • Work done on blocks register accepted/rejected individually - no problem here. Not shown on website yet though.

I think it makes sense to change it so the miner is told the proof was accepted if it was included in the shift as accepted, otherwise the miner is told it is rejected?

Question is, should it be accepted if it is valid on either bitcoin or namecoin, or only when valid on the bitcoin side? I'm leaning towards shift+miner acceptance only when proofs are valid for bitcoin. The reason for this is 1. I think bitcoin is more important and 2. I don't want the pool to "pretend" everything is fine while you are actually producing massive stales (most proofs would still be valid for bitcoin OR namecoin).


Most merged mining pools go with
good bitcoin = valid
bad bitcoin = stale

Technically the "perfect" way to do it would be to keep seperate stats for both NMC block and BTC block and record stales individually but AFAIC nobody does that yet. 

Example: each share could be
valid BTC & valid NMC
stale BTC & valid NMC
valid BTC & stale NMC
stale BTC & stale NMC

records blocks, shifts, and valid shares seperately for each coin type and issue rewards separately.  Granted it is a huge amount of work but that would be the most accurate and fair method of handling rewards.

Given NMC is at best a 7% bonus (and going to 5% after next difficulty) I think counting stales vs good based on BTC is "good enough".


Title: Re: [60 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 10, 2011, 06:29:19 AM
Given NMC is at best a 7% bonus (and going to 5% after next difficulty) I think counting stales vs good based on BTC is "good enough".

Yes, I think so too. I could add separate shifts for NMC, but it might add more hassle and confusion than it is worth.

Really bad luck on block #81, but I'm glad we finally finished it. Even with the block creation that failed due to a stale, it would have been one block at 350k and one at 900k proofs. I looked around at other pools to see if they had any namecoin blocks that big. But, strangely, several pools don't seem to show any info on the namecoin blocks.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 11, 2011, 11:09:45 AM
Is there a donation option somewhere now that Ive missed? Since it seems you are not charging any fees, Im beginning to feel guilty.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 11, 2011, 12:24:03 PM
Is there a donation option somewhere now that Ive missed? Since it seems you are not charging any fees, Im beginning to feel guilty.

Hold on to that feeling.  :D

But seriously, no, there's no donation possible yet.

What I'm planning right now:
  • More numbers on website - especially regarding namecoins
  • Updates for the client/miner: fix performance degradation in the beta, fix stale handling in the beta to better work with merged mining, add some automation options
  • After that: donations and some other stuff. Not 100% sure what I will do first yet.

I should have new web updates done this weekend and hopefully get some work done on the miner.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 11, 2011, 12:44:23 PM
cgminer 2.0.8 is out.  It handles merged mining LP better.  It *should* improve stale rate on NMC blocks.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 11, 2011, 01:08:40 PM
cgminer 2.0.8 is out.  It handles merged mining LP better.  It *should* improve stale rate on NMC blocks.

Yes, please all cgminer users grab the new version. And BitMinter users use the regular and not the beta version until the next beta is out. Then we can get NMC stales well under 1% I think. It's currently just over 5%.

Last night we had another NMC stale that would have created namecoins had it not been stale. I hate seeing that - maybe I should stop logging those. :D

I know NMC isn't worth much, but we should always strive for max performance.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 11, 2011, 10:07:52 PM
Seeing D&Ts avatar just gave me an idea.. if we cant use (dynamic) banners, then why not dynamic avatars? Granted, they are small, cant link but it would be neat anyway to have a speed dial avatar showing your hashrate while promoting bitminter?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 11, 2011, 10:16:09 PM
Seeing D&Ts avatar just gave me an idea.. if we cant use (dynamic) banners, then why not dynamic avatars? Granted, they are small, cant link but it would be neat anyway to have a speed dial avatar showing your hashrate while promoting bitminter?

I saw someone from another pool had a "I am hashing xx GH/s at xyz" in the Avatar.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 11, 2011, 11:44:28 PM
http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/gg62291,1272778581,pinky_brain.jpg


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 13, 2011, 12:57:19 AM
Seeing D&Ts avatar just gave me an idea.. if we cant use (dynamic) banners, then why not dynamic avatars? Granted, they are small, cant link but it would be neat anyway to have a speed dial avatar showing your hashrate while promoting bitminter?

Sounds cool! You wanna give it a try? ;)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 13, 2011, 01:14:37 AM
Updates to the website:
  • Livestats fastest miners is now a top 50 list
  • Live round stats has lots of new data. As requested it now shows your own numbers too (requires being logged in)
  • Account details shows expected pay per BTC/NMC block based on your current scores in the 10 latest complete shifts
  • Transaction history links for NMC now go to the NMC block explorer
  • Transaction history now listed with newest entries first. You were right, it makes more sense.
  • Block info page links go to correct block explorer. Added link to block page in addition to coin generation page.
  • Removed cash out address from signup form. Some users found it a hassle. I may in the future also remove the optional worker from the signup form and instead create a default worker for new users. Just choose a username and go.
  • Updated some text here and there (e.g. short info about merged mining on front page)

Let me know if anything isn't working. If livestats look strange, first try clearing the cache in your browser and reloading the page.

The new round stats is a bit of a tight fit. I like the idea of a small popup with stats. Unfortunately the round stats have too many numbers to fit in a small window. The solution, at least for now, is scrollbars. Same for the top 50 list.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 13, 2011, 01:52:41 AM
Nice additional stats.  I wish instead of a popup (or maybe in addition to the popup under stats menu as a full page) there was a full page with all state, hashing power, top 50, etc.

I think one stat might be wrong...
Code:
Shift You Mint
Accepted 8,037 62,050
Rejected 142 (0.03%) 143 (0.23%)
Score 12.95% 51.56%

142 isn't 0.03% of 8,037 shares...


Code:
NMC block You Mint
Difficulty 199,569
Accepted 50,608 441,171
Rejected 2,987 (5.90%) 19,963 (4.53%)


I am not sure if you can see rejects by worker.  DeathAndTaxes_tiredminer is my workstation.  It is running cgminer 2.0.8 w/ "submit stale" option.  Can you see if it has a lower reject rate on NMC side?  cgminer 2.0.8 doesn't work w/ linuxcoin some incompatibility so my other 3 workers are running 2.0.7.  Just wondering if there was any improvement in stale rates.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 13, 2011, 09:31:59 AM
Looks great ! Thanks for the changes. Like DeathAndTaxes wrote, a popup sucks a bit because i disabled them on my working computer.

@DAT how do i submit stales with 2.0.8 ? Where is the option to be found ? Thanks


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 13, 2011, 03:06:24 PM
Looks great ! Thanks for the changes. Like DeathAndTaxes wrote, a popup sucks a bit because i disabled them on my working computer.

@DAT how do i submit stales with 2.0.8 ? Where is the option to be found ? Thanks

either use command line option of

Code:
--submit-stale

or add it to your config file

Code:
"submit-stale" : true


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 13, 2011, 03:18:46 PM
Much to learn for me ;) Thank you


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 13, 2011, 03:38:44 PM
 cgminer 2.0.8 doesn't work w/ linuxcoin some incompatibility

It does work just fine, you just have to create a symbolic link because some libraries were renamed in recent ubuntu releases:

Code:
cd /lib64/
sudo ln -s libncurses.so.5 libtinfo.so.5

after that cgminer 2.0.8 will work fine on linuxcoin (at least it does here).


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 13, 2011, 04:20:36 PM
  cgminer 2.0.8 doesn't work w/ linuxcoin some incompatibility

It does work just fine, you just have to create a symbolic link because some libraries were renamed in recent ubuntu releases:

Code:
cd /lib64/
sudo ln -s libncurses.so.5 libtinfo.so.5

after that cgminer 2.0.8 will work fine on linuxcoin (at least it does here).

Well that solved one problem but no whenever it starts up I immediately get segmentation fault.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 13, 2011, 04:26:14 PM
really?  Did you get any errors or warning compiling?
Can you post the full output? Also, if you are using "-c configfile" perhaps try without, no idea if the syntax of that file changed.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 13, 2011, 05:13:30 PM
@p4man: Looks like your experienced with cgminer. May sound silly but somehow cgminer does not recognize my configuration file. Is there some special trick or am i just dumb ? I created a configuration file via setings, w, with all information in it but i have to type in all information manually if i restart or close the program.  ???


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 13, 2011, 05:14:39 PM
Post a copy of your config file (change password & username to password & username)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 13, 2011, 05:18:05 PM
Code:
{
"pools" : [
        {
                "url" : "http://mint.bitminter.com:8332",
                "user" : "P4man_linuxcoin",
                "pass" : "***"
        },
        {
                "url" : "http://api.bitcoin.cz:8332",
                "user" : "P4man.boven",
                "pass" : "***"
        }
],

"intensity" : "9,9",
"gpu-engine" : "725-1000,725-900",
"gpu-fan" : "40-85,40-85",
"gpu-memclock" : "300,300",
"gpu-powertune" : "0,0",
"temp-cutoff" : "80,80",
"temp-overheat" : "70,70",
"temp-target" : "55,55",

"algo" : "sse2_64",
"expiry" : "120",
"gpu-threads" : "2",
"log" : "5",
"queue" : "1",
"retry-pause" : "5",
"scan-time" : "60",
"temp-hysteresis" : "3",
"worksize" : "0",

"donation" : "0.50",
"shares" : "0",
"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin"
}

Havent figured out how to get auto-fan and auto-gpu in there, so I add those switches to the commandline.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 13, 2011, 05:20:25 PM
@p4man: Looks like your experienced with cgminer. May sound silly but somehow cgminer does not recognize my configuration file. Is there some special trick or am i just dumb ? I created a configuration file via setings, w, with all information in it but i have to type in all information manually if i restart or close the program.  ???

Oh oops, I thought DT asked me for my config file. Anyway, I noticed if you let cgminer write a config file, it will add zero values for things you didnt configure, notably Vcore. then it will refuse to launch with that config file unless you fill out those number correctly, or remove the lines.

but the command to use is

./cgminer -c yourconfigfile


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 13, 2011, 05:25:57 PM
 :) ok this is very possible. I have lots of zero values. Try to remove them


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 13, 2011, 05:29:09 PM
I think vcore is the only one to remove (or fill out). For the rest it seems it will take defaults. Like worksize is also 0 in my config, but it uses the automatic setting of 256 for my cards.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 13, 2011, 05:30:17 PM
 :D ;D perfect everything is ok now thanks a lot !


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 13, 2011, 10:56:26 PM
Quick website update:
  • Full page live stats
  • Worker list showing stales, now on its own page (look under the "my account" menu)
  • Get fresh round stats data from server every 2 minutes instead of every 5 minutes
  • Extrapolate round stats every 1/4 second instead of every second

Nice additional stats.  I wish instead of a popup (or maybe in addition to the popup under stats menu as a full page) there was a full page with all state, hashing power, top 50, etc.
Looks great ! Thanks for the changes. Like DeathAndTaxes wrote, a popup sucks a bit because i disabled them on my working computer.

Good idea. Now you can choose between pop-up or full page.

142 isn't 0.03% of 8,037 shares...

Oops. Fixed. Thanks for catching it! Never could learn this complex percentage stuff. :D

I am not sure if you can see rejects by worker.  DeathAndTaxes_tiredminer is my workstation.  It is running cgminer 2.0.8 w/ "submit stale" option.  Can you see if it has a lower reject rate on NMC side?  cgminer 2.0.8 doesn't work w/ linuxcoin some incompatibility so my other 3 workers are running 2.0.7.  Just wondering if there was any improvement in stale rates.

Added to worker list so everyone can check theirs.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 14, 2011, 06:01:03 AM
Good idea. Now you can choose between pop-up or full page.
I like it.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 14, 2011, 12:30:13 PM
We just surpassed 100GHps thanks to 3 new big bad ass miners.  :)
[edit] they just went away and we are back to 70.

BTW: about the statistics I would suggest a new one about our actual luck compared to what theoretically should be according the pool speed.
Some time ago this kind of stats were published as graphics about the major pools at l0ss.net


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 14, 2011, 12:57:25 PM
Bad ass pool hoppers that have since hopped away again. Still, was nice to break 100 :).

As for stats, Im quite happy with what we have now (particularly the none popup stats page), and DrHaribo has plenty on his plate, but if he is still taking requests, it would be nice to see a guestimate of pool blocks / day at the current hashrate (or 24h average) and likewise, an estimate for btc/day (or month) for the miners. I know there are a million calculators where I can get that info too, but would be nice to see it based on actual hashrate and without effort :). The bitminter client already has that IIRC.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 14, 2011, 01:25:13 PM
We just surpassed 100GHps thanks to 3 new big bad ass miners.  :)
[edit] they just went away and we are back to 70.

BTW: about the statistics I would suggest a new one about our actual luck compared to what theoretically should be according the pool speed.
Some time ago this kind of stats were published as graphics about the major pools at l0ss.net

I would vote a +1 on "luck" stats.  I know PPLNS is "solid", other here known "PPLNS" is solid but I think have luck stats showing expected revenue vs actual revenue for the pool over the course of months by convince some of the undecided.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 14, 2011, 05:19:00 PM
I am not sure if you can see rejects by worker.  DeathAndTaxes_tiredminer is my workstation.  It is running cgminer 2.0.8 w/ "submit stale" option.  Can you see if it has a lower reject rate on NMC side?  cgminer 2.0.8 doesn't work w/ linuxcoin some incompatibility so my other 3 workers are running 2.0.7.  Just wondering if there was any improvement in stale rates.

Added to worker list so everyone can check theirs.

[/quote]

First thanks for all the increases stats/details.  

Second it looks like cgminer-2.0.8 is the solution to high NMC stales.

The pool on average has about 5% NMC stale rate.  I haven't got cgminer-2.0.7 working on linuxcoin yet but do have it working on Windows7 so this provides a nice comparison.

Code:
cgminer 2.07
BTC 1 stale of 2,031 shares     - 0.05%
NMC 118 stale of 1,914 shares  - 6.17%

cgminer 2.08
BTC 4 stale of 2,197 shares - 0.18%
NMC 2 stale of 2,199 shares - 0.09%

Massive improvement on NMC stales.  BTC stales are the same I just happen to use "submit-stale" option which reports more of them to the server.




More info on "submit-stale" (only necessary if you care about local vs server stales).
The BTC stales did increase but this is only because I am using "submit-stale" option.  cgminer by default will not submit shares it detects as stale (thus bitminter never sees them).  This improves server performance but slightly reduces  the number of good shares (more so with high intensity).  By turning on "submit-stale" it will increase server count as all "detect stale" share will still be submitted but if any of them are still valid you gain accepted shares.  Worse case scenario all of them are invalid in which case you lose nothing.






Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 14, 2011, 05:53:42 PM
 :o good lord + 30 gh/s with 3 new miner. Nice


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 14, 2011, 10:20:45 PM
Great ideas about showing our luck and expected income versus actual income. I'll see what I can do.

New today: port 80 mining. I tested it for all of 30 seconds and it seems to work. :P If you are only able to connect to port 80, then try mint.bitminter.com:80 instead of the usual mint.bitminter.com:8332. Port 8332 is still preferred though, so keep using it if you can. This is not supported in the BitMinter client yet, I'll need to add an option for it. It should work with other miners, though.

:o good lord + 30 gh/s with 3 new miner. Nice

Yeah. They come and leave a bit, but as we're hopper-proof it's not something to worry about. They get fair pay and give the pool a nice boost. :)

Massive improvement on NMC stales. BTC stales are the same I just happen to use "submit-stale" option which reports more of them to the server.

Nice :) Looks like the pool on average has gone from just over 5% NMC stales to just under 3%. Some of it probably from people upgrading miners, and some from the recent NMC difficulty increase causing blocks to be created slower. If everyone switches to merged mining friendly miners we should get it down to the same level as BTC stales.



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 14, 2011, 10:29:07 PM
Great ideas about showing our luck and expected income versus actual income. I'll see what I can do.

New today: port 80 mining. I tested it for all of 30 seconds and it seems to work. :P If you are only able to connect to port 80, then try mint.bitminter.com:80 instead of the usual mint.bitminter.com:8332. Port 8332 is still preferred though, so keep using it if you can. This is not supported in the BitMinter client yet, I'll need to add an option for it. It should work with other miners, though.

:o good lord + 30 gh/s with 3 new miner. Nice

Yeah. They come and leave a bit, but as we're hopper-proof it's not something to worry about. They get fair pay and give the pool a nice boost. :)

All hopers have a fallback where they are looking to just get "full PPS value" for their shares.  When I hopped Arsbitcoin was the common fallback but it seems like that pool is having problems (and uncertainty).  We may start to see more hoppers as word gets out this is a viable fallback pool.  There hops were too short and intrablock to even indicate they "think" they could hop us.  More likely they were hopping out to toher pools and only falling back to us.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 15, 2011, 08:30:54 AM
Great ideas about showing our luck and expected income versus actual income. I'll see what I can do.

Maybe you could just make 2 small charts (1 for BTC and 1 for NMC) representing CDF for the blocks that we found, with 0 at 50% CDF, so that blocks found below 0 or 50% CDF are "lucky" and vice versa. So anyone could see at a glance the past luck of the pool.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 15, 2011, 12:57:20 PM
LOL: I am hashing at satanic speed  8)

  http://img106.imagevenue.com/loc361/th_136168191_666_122_361lo.jpg (http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=136168191_666_122_361lo.jpg)
     


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: SgtMoth on November 16, 2011, 09:47:15 AM
Awesome work Dr!!....and to ALL the miners!  everyone keeps this place going 8)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on November 16, 2011, 11:04:31 AM

Pretty much how I HAD mine setup, but I redid everything when I  started using the bitminter client.. I got lazy and didn't setup anything to start up on reboot :(

I would so much like to start bitminter from the command line :)

Just curious, why did you switch to bitminter? As much as I like the app for tech unsavvy users who want to run a miner on their everyday desktops without having to struggle to get anything running, I dont see the point of running it on headless dedicated machines. Particularly when you have a farm as big as yours, I wouldnt dream of not using cgminer with failover pools.

I switched just to fool around mostly, wanted to test the bitminter beta etc. then I ended up redoing everything from scratch and just got lazy and never put anything back....

Never did try cgminer until a few days ago.. I have been screwing around with it on a test machine today and its great (not sure how I missed this) :) tomorrow ill start to convert the farm over... bitminter / Linux / 6970 was getting me 428 Mh/s , cgminer / Linux ive got up to 426 so close enough!

any tweaking tips for cgminer on the bitminter pool? 


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 16, 2011, 12:44:38 PM
426 already seems like a respectable number for a 6970, depending on clock. Ive experimented only a bit, but I found the default settings with intensity=9 to be perfect for my cards (455 for a 5870 @1Ghz, 369 for a 5850 @900) and a hair faster than bitminter, but I believe bitminter is particularly optimized for 6xx0 cards. Only tweaking Ive done is clock, fan and temperature settings.

@DrHaribo
Tiny feature request. The "my account" page is a bit confusing ATM. showing BTC/NMC in constant changing order. Would be easier if you made a 3x2 table and put NMC /BTC in columns and estimated, confirmed and unconfirmed in rows (or vice versa). Probably also a good idea if you ever plan to support any of the alt chains, like litecoin. And I think you should do that eventually,  particularly litecoin (cpu only for now) integrated in your miner would make a lot of sense.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 16, 2011, 04:03:20 PM
Just got to say congrats to DrHaribo.

The new site and stats look great.  Our hashing power is now more consistently over 70GH and I think we will be solidly over 100GH/s before long.

I moved the last of my rigs exclusively to BitMinter.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 16, 2011, 09:35:43 PM
 :D i finally started my first ZTEX FPGA board. Nice piece of hardware. ZTEX is the real deal. I had some troubles setting it up and he was very responsive and helpful all the time. Great customer service !


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 16, 2011, 09:42:06 PM
We want pictures!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 16, 2011, 09:50:28 PM
I'm uploading them...  ;D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 16, 2011, 10:15:30 PM
Here we go:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/320581_2432863393028_1594960449_2314405_1838646641_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/316240_2432864593058_1594960449_2314406_1759917387_n.jpg

Well above 190 MH/s with the newest software, goes up and down.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/375339_2432871553232_1594960449_2314407_990782499_n.jpg

Old version, first test

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/393204_2432862152997_1594960449_2314403_1711711068_n.jpg



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 16, 2011, 10:28:10 PM
Maybe you could just make 2 small charts (1 for BTC and 1 for NMC) representing CDF for the blocks that we found, with 0 at 50% CDF, so that blocks found below 0 or 50% CDF are "lucky" and vice versa. So anyone could see at a glance the past luck of the pool.

Yeah, I will put in something like that. Plus probably something to indicate how actual pay compares to expected average pay.

Tiny feature request. The "my account" page is a bit confusing ATM. showing BTC/NMC in constant changing order. Would be easier if you made a 3x2 table and put NMC /BTC in columns and estimated, confirmed and unconfirmed in rows (or vice versa). Probably also a good idea if you ever plan to support any of the alt chains, like litecoin. And I think you should do that eventually,  particularly litecoin (cpu only for now) integrated in your miner would make a lot of sense.

Have to say, I wasn't happy with the way it looked myself. I'll have what you describe in the next update. Thanks for the suggestion!

About litecoin, I'm not sure yet. It could take away focus from bitcoin and "water down" the whole deal. Some already think namecoins are just confusing and an annoyance. I did however, while working on merged mining, make it fairly easy to add more merged chains. Litecoin isn't merged, but it should still be easier because of the recent changes. Well, while I am busy working on other things I guess we will soon see whether litecoin is just another failcoin copy of bitcoin, or if it actually has something to offer that bitcoin doesn't.

Just got to say congrats to DrHaribo.

The new site and stats look great.  Our hashing power is now more consistently over 70GH and I think we will be solidly over 100GH/s before long.

I moved the last of my rigs exclusively to BitMinter.
Awesome work Dr!!....and to ALL the miners!  everyone keeps this place going 8)

Thanks for the kind words, guys. And like you say SgtMoth, thank you to all the miners. You keep BitMinter alive, and seeing everyone mining here and supporting the pool is a big motivation to keep working on this. Thanks for taking a chance on a small pool while most just pick the biggest one. We have gone from tiny to small, and if you're right, DAT, we could soon be on our way to medium size. :)

I'm uploading them...  ;D

Damn! :o Where do I get one of those, and what's the price?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 16, 2011, 10:28:36 PM
Me likes :)
Now, how about benchmarking some battle-fields 3 :D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 16, 2011, 10:39:02 PM
Damn! :o Where do I get one of those, and what's the price?

Made in Germany by ZTEX. http://www.ztex.de/ (http://www.ztex.de/) Paid 327 Euros.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 16, 2011, 10:51:51 PM
I guess we will soon see whether litecoin is just another failcoin copy of bitcoin, or if it actually has something to offer that bitcoin doesn't.

Although litecoin has a few actual advantages over BTC, the reason Im suggesting it is not that Im convinced it will take over the world. Its because bitminter's cpu mining speed is (no offense) useless, replacing it with litecoin mining would make it useful.

Litecoin price/difficulty doesnt make it hugely profitable but at least for now, certainly more interesting than namecoins. The fact it can be done with cpus and doesnt need drivers or highend amd cards, would also be a strong asset for any syndication deal that would target your miner to regular folks, rather than us nerds.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 17, 2011, 05:09:33 AM
Damn! :o Where do I get one of those, and what's the price?

Made in Germany by ZTEX. http://www.ztex.de/ (http://www.ztex.de/) Paid 327 Euros.

Ummmm wow..


How many watts do you pull from it ? roughly if you dont know for sure..

But man that looks attractive..



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 17, 2011, 05:17:59 AM
How many watts do you pull from it ? roughly if you dont know for sure..
But man that looks attractive..

From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 17, 2011, 05:49:21 AM
How many watts do you pull from it ? roughly if you dont know for sure..
But man that looks attractive..

From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.

Wow... thats like a small solar panel  car battery tender..

I've always loved the free power hashing idea..  hence me speaking of solar panels..

One Philips commerical 100 watt panel is about 500 bucks these days.. could power ten of these fpga's with a very small battery bank..

Free money!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 17, 2011, 07:26:34 AM
From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.
Free money!

After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ (http://bitcoinx.com/charts/) means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 17, 2011, 04:43:26 PM
From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.
Free money!

After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ (http://bitcoinx.com/charts/) means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.


Yes ridiculous ROI time frame for solar...   But thats solar for ya!   expensive panels.

But yes, at least the equipment has some value other than hashin.. :P

Im only hashing for the extra heat at the price it is now, I figure its the only heater I know that returns some of the money it costs to run.. :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 17, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ (http://bitcoinx.com/charts/) means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.

Its worse than that. Keep in mind bitcoin generation will have halved twice in that time span.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 17, 2011, 06:24:29 PM
After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ (http://bitcoinx.com/charts/) means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.

Its worse than that. Keep in mind bitcoin generation will have halved twice in that time span.

Well unless a significant fraction of the current 8TH operates at a loss one would expect to see either prices rise or difficulty fall (likely both) when generation rate gets cut.

For example lets pretend generation rate had been 100 coins since the beginning.  Does anyone doubt that either prices would be half current price or difficulty would be doubled?

Still the one-time drop is troublesome.  I wish Satoshi had thought to use a decaying function for block rewards (i.e. first block subsidy was 50 BTC and the last block is 1 satoshi) and every block in-between formed a smooth curve between those two data points.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 17, 2011, 06:37:35 PM
Well unless a significant fraction of the current 8TH operates at a loss

I think thats a given; mining at a loss or "free" electricity. BTC has lost over 90% of its value since the peak, hash rate and difficulty havent even halved.
It be surprised if more than 10% of that hash power was profitable at actual electricity rates.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 17, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
Well unless a significant fraction of the current 8TH operates at a loss

I think thats a given; mining at a loss or "free" electricity. BTC has lost over 90% of its value since the peak, hash rate and difficulty havent even halved.
It be surprised if more than 10% of that hash power was profitable at actual electricity rates.

Well that isn't exactly a useful metric.  At peak prices (and peak difficulty) my ROI% was >600% annually.  Coins were trading at 17x their electrical cost.  Obviously totally unsustainable.  So the decline from an utterly unsustainable speculative bubble doesn't really indicate profitability.  At $30 BTC I had a >600% ROI.   At $10 BTC I "only" had 183%. 

I mean honestly who is going to shut off a rig at "only" triple your money every year. :)

The peak profitability was so out of line w/ cost, risk, and effort that the drop from $30 to $6 was essentially meaningless.

While I have no doubt many have free power and some mine at a loss you honestly think that 90% of miners are either unprofitable or using free power?  Really?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 17, 2011, 07:20:51 PM
While I have no doubt many have free power and some mine at a loss you honestly think that 90% of miners are either unprofitable or using free power?  Really?


Much depends on how many "big" miners there are vs small ones. I suspect most of the big ones will either be profitable or shut down, since any losses would also be far bigger for them; but Im even more certain there are many more miners  who mine with one or two cards, but operate at a loss, stealing electricity, have their parents/employer/landlord pay for it, speculate on future gains, or are just being plain irrational (or terrible at math, like that other dude who could double bitcoins).

The question is, how is hashrate divided between those groups? That I do not know. I would have guesssed something like half the hashrate is provided by casual miners with 2 or less GPUs, but looking at bitminters statistics for the last block (yeah, finally!), that might be mistaken, as the majority of hashrate seems to be provided by at least 3 GPUs.
Not sure if deepbit would give a similar picture though.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 18, 2011, 06:47:51 AM
Me, I am mining at a loss with 2 cards. Because:
- My rig now substitute air conditioning (less efficient, but a/c does not produce BTCs). Of course I would not mine in the summer at this price and difficulty.  
- I expect a growth of its price (ideally slow and sustainable) after a bottom any time from now
- I expect a spectacular FAIL of euro and USD in the next few months, which would probably boost BTC popularity and value.

From the network speed chart it seems that most of miners are on this line of reasoning, since the network speed in november was not affected by the further 30% price drop since November 1:
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin.png




Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 18, 2011, 01:54:19 PM
From the network speed chart it seems that most of miners are on this line of reasoning, since the network speed in november was not affected by the further 30% price drop since November 1:

Network hashing power tends to lag price action.   Miners tend to convince themselves that prices (and thus profits) will rebound.  The cost of power is also delayed since power bills tend to come once a month.

Also saying "the 30% price drop since Nov 1" isn't a good measure.  The price drop as on 4 days ago was only about 5% and it is hard to call that a "drop" and not just part of the day to day price fluctation.  The significant drop (most of that 30%) happened less than a week ago.  If the price is still <$3.00 lets look at hashing power on Dec 14th (30 days since "the drop").

You are right about the weather though.  Most of hashing power (taking a guess based on node density) is in the Northern Hemisphere and thus the colder temps mean higher profitability.  Miners who would be unprofitable in summer (at current price/difficulty) can still be marginally profitable in the winter.

My expectation is hashing power is roughly 2TH to 3TH lower by next August.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 18, 2011, 06:58:16 PM
Short report from the FPGA section. The hashrates i posted were a bit too optimistic. After 24h you get steady 190 MH/s @ 184 MHz. The software works well but it produces more rejects than cgminer or the Bitminter client.

Newest software seems to slow down to about 165 MH/s after a while. I'm using 111020 instead of 111114. Would be interesting to see how fast it works at max clock frequency. 184 MHz seems to be min. I have a 92mm fan pointed at the board (cooler) so heat should not be the problem.

Hope ZTEX keeps working on the software.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 18, 2011, 08:35:54 PM
The software works well but it produces more rejects than cgminer or the Bitminter client.

I assume that could also be because its slower?
165 MH is a bit of a bummer though. That will take forever to pay itself back, I hope you bought it more for fun than for financial gain.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 18, 2011, 08:42:04 PM
Short report from the FPGA section. The hashrates i posted were a bit too optimistic. After 24h you get steady 190 MH/s @ 184 MHz. The software works well but it produces more rejects than cgminer or the Bitminter client.

How many more rejects?  If you can provide cgminer is a comparison as everyone reject rate varies by latency and other factors.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 18, 2011, 09:06:29 PM
That will take forever to pay itself back, I hope you bought it more for fun than for financial gain.

All the hardware money spent is gone for me. I look at it as a hobby. I mine because i like the idea of bitcoin. At the moment i burn money but with only 3 GPUs and the board i can stop whenever i want without hard feelings.

@DAT FPGA Board: Accepted 7098, Rejected 60
         5850s: Accepted 309674, Rejected 393




Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 19, 2011, 04:25:26 AM
I would just like to say "Boo yaa! "

getting lucky again.. 


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 21, 2011, 11:17:19 PM
Website updated. Here's what's new:

  • My account -> account details: Account info rearranged. Looks better now, I think.
  • My account -> banners & avatars: Finally got dynamic banners/avatars!
  • Statistics -> luck: See our luck (CDF) from block to block.
  • Statistics -> rewards: See how our PPLNS payout compares to the expected average reward.
  • Statistics -> API: Started on a simple web service API. But I think some changes are necessary to make it more generic and "future-proof". Consider it a beta that will probably change.
  • Statistics -> Live stats, full size: Now shows the 10 latest blocks and shifts. They update whenever an update of round data indicates a change. There is a checkbox to turn on audio notifications of new blocks (off by default whenever you open that page).

If something looks funny, try clearing your browser cache and reloading the page. Some files changed that are typically cached.

Now I can have a look at the client (miner) again. Sorry for the delay, but I had to finish this web update first. Even though I'll be working on the miner next, feel free to make new suggestions for the website as well. They will go on my neverending TODO list. ;D

Update: If you already had live stats open, please reload the page. I made some changes to the data format and the old page can no longer read its data feed correctly.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 21, 2011, 11:21:59 PM
Awesome work. I particularly love the "luck" and 'reward' pages. But atm, the stats page doesnt seem to work. Dont think its caching issue as its not working on a fresh browser either.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 21, 2011, 11:31:52 PM
But atm, the stats page doesnt seem to work.

The live stats full size? What is not working with it?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: notme on November 22, 2011, 02:21:44 AM
Heads up: your pool was giving me connection problems, so I'm off it for now :(.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 22, 2011, 05:59:27 AM
Really very nice. I would ask for a last addiction: a measure of our average actual CDF.
Awesome pool.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 22, 2011, 07:10:17 AM
Heads up: your pool was giving me connection problems, so I'm off it for now :(.

I'm sorry to hear that. If you let me know the time (and timezone) this happened, I can have a look in the logs if there is anything to indicate this was a server-side problem.

Really very nice. I would ask for a last addiction: a measure of our average actual CDF.
Awesome pool.

Thank you. :) I will add some averages. Also, it seems the timestamps on the blocks and shifts in the live stats are not UTC like they should be. The audio alarm seems a little trigger happy too, going off when there are no new blocks. Will fix these things very soon.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 22, 2011, 07:17:33 AM
Quote
The live stats full size? What is not working with it?


Nevermind, it was a caching issue after all, all looks great now. Fantastic work!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 22, 2011, 11:45:37 AM
 :) the homepage is great. Now, all we need is some more luck.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 22, 2011, 10:46:23 PM
Glad you like the changes. :)

I added today an extra chart on the rewards statistics showing the earnings accumulating over time.

Also forgot to mention in the big update earlier that I added a QR button in the cash out addresses. Click it and a QR code representing the address is shown. You can scan it from the screen if you use the bitcoin wallet program for Android. :) Will be more useful later perhaps, with more bitcoin addresses on the website.

Now, all we need is some more luck.

You said it. This block has the highest CDF the pool has seen on a BTC block so far. :( I really hope this ends soon.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on November 25, 2011, 10:21:19 AM
I guess we will soon see whether litecoin is just another failcoin copy of bitcoin, or if it actually has something to offer that bitcoin doesn't.

Although litecoin has a few actual advantages over BTC, the reason Im suggesting it is not that Im convinced it will take over the world. Its because bitminter's cpu mining speed is (no offense) useless, replacing it with litecoin mining would make it useful.

Litecoin price/difficulty doesnt make it hugely profitable but at least for now, certainly more interesting than namecoins. The fact it can be done with cpus and doesnt need drivers or highend amd cards, would also be a strong asset for any syndication deal that would target your miner to regular folks, rather than us nerds.

+1. I second the idea to dedicate the cpu section of the miner to some cpu-friendly coin.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 27, 2011, 09:47:09 PM
Another beta of the miner released today. Automation coming in the next one.

I hear you guys about CPU-mining. What I will probably do first is implement bitcoin mining with CPU using OpenCL. That should hopefully be just slow and not dead slow. :D Next step for CPU mining then is to make libraries with native code for the miner to use. Then it could be as fast as any CPU miner. I'll need a way to turn some assembly code into a .dll for Windows, .so for Linux and whatever Mac uses for Mac. If anyone knows a way to build all that on a Linux machine then please let me know.

CPU mining isn't near the top of my list, but it is on it. :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 27, 2011, 10:36:18 PM
Honestly I wouldnt bother with bitcoin cpu mining. No one does that anymore. If its on you todo list, move it to the bottom :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 12:02:30 AM
Honestly I wouldnt bother with bitcoin cpu mining. No one does that anymore. If its on you todo list, move it to the bottom :)

Agreed.  Unless you have free power the electricity is worth more than the hashes.  If it were me I would remove it from the miner completely.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: eleuthria on November 28, 2011, 04:07:57 AM
Honestly I wouldnt bother with bitcoin cpu mining. No one does that anymore. If its on you todo list, move it to the bottom :)

Agreed.  Unless you have free power the electricity is worth more than the hashes.  If it were me I would remove it from the miner completely.

Even if your electricity is free, you'll be spending more to replace the processor or motherboard after it dies on you than it earned during its use.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 28, 2011, 11:19:32 PM
Agreed on CPU-mining. I have a lot of plans and CPU-mining is quite far down on the list. Way down with support for Radeon HD 2000- and 3000-series. They are probably not very profitable for mining either.

And yes, as long as someone is paying enough for litecoins to make them more valuable to CPU-mine than bitcoins, it makes more sense to implement that.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 03:06:28 PM
A quick heads up to my fellow miners in the greatest pool on earth! :)

I am going on a cruise this friday for a week and in the sake of promoting marital bliss I have decided to shutoff all my rigs while I am gone.  My wife would worry otherwise (although IMHO over nothing).  I have learned to pick my battles and this isn't one of them. :)

Grr I am going to hate passing up that ~90 BTC.  Since I push up to 10 GH/s the pool hashing power will take a little hit didn't want anyone to worry.  I am still sticking w/ BitMinter and will be firing up the rigs as soon as I get back.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 29, 2011, 05:52:10 PM
Have a nice time  ;)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: btc_artist on November 29, 2011, 06:06:35 PM
A quick heads up to my fellow miners in the greatest pool on earth! :)

I am going on a cruise this friday for a week and in the sake of promoting marital bliss I have decided to shutoff all my rigs while I am gone.  My wife would worry otherwise (although IMHO over nothing).  I have learned to pick my battles and this isn't one of them. :)

Grr I am going to hate passing up that ~90 BTC.  Since I push up to 10 GH/s the pool hashing power will take a little hit didn't want anyone to worry.  I am still sticking w/ BitMinter and will be firing up the rigs as soon as I get back.
Answer 1: If she is worried about a fire starting, I don't see how the odds are all that different if you are away for a week or away for an evening.

Answer 2: Marital bliss is more important than some BTC. :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 06:14:56 PM
Answer 1: If she is worried about a fire starting, I don't see how the odds are all that different if you are away for a week or away for an evening.

Preaching to the choir man. :) 

Quote
Answer 2: Marital bliss is more important than some BTC. :)
Indeed. 


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 29, 2011, 06:36:49 PM
Thanks for your continued support, DAT. Have fun on your cruise! Sounds like a nice relaxing time. :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: btc_artist on November 30, 2011, 05:28:11 AM
Answer 1: If she is worried about a fire starting, I don't see how the odds are all that different if you are away for a week or away for an evening.

Preaching to the choir man. :) 

Quote
Answer 2: Marital bliss is more important than some BTC. :)
Indeed. 

*insert thumbs up smilie here*


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on November 30, 2011, 08:22:31 AM
DrHaribo can you please turn on the block finding cheat again? Thank you :).


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on November 30, 2011, 04:14:10 PM
DrHaribo can you please turn on the block finding cheat again? Thank you :).

+1


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 30, 2011, 05:41:28 PM
Engaging fast block cheat now.

(Noone tell Gavin Andresen, he got really mad last time)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 30, 2011, 06:52:17 PM
 ;D let the turbo kick in...


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Eveofwar on November 30, 2011, 06:54:21 PM
Engaging fast block cheat now.

(Noone tell Gavin Andresen, he got really mad last time)
/me waits for incoming block chain fork...


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 30, 2011, 07:19:57 PM
First block is in...


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on November 30, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
About time  ;)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 30, 2011, 07:36:58 PM
First block is in...

Too easy. Why didn't you engage cheat mode a day ago? 

It looks like my miner was running the following code:
Code:
If (cheatmode == true) Then
    AutoFindBlock()
Else
    DoNothing()


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on November 30, 2011, 09:32:13 PM
Too easy. Why didn't you engage cheat mode a day ago? 

It looks like my miner was running the following code:
Code:
If (cheatmode == true) Then
    AutoFindBlock()
Else
    DoNothing()

That's exactly what it was doing. And the reason not to always run with cheatmode, well... Can you imagine the complaints from other pools if they knew we are hacking instead of hashing? :P


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 01, 2011, 11:19:46 AM
Does someone know who (what) Geronimo, youpie and JohnyKnoxville are. Why do they hop all together ? Is this one guy with more than one nick ? They have more than 70 gh/s...


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 01, 2011, 12:13:45 PM
They are pool hoppers. If they have no "hoppable" pool to hop to, they have been sending their hashes to us lately.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 01, 2011, 01:04:19 PM
Engaging fast block cheat now.

Not that one, the other one please. You know the one that produces blocks with less than 50% CDF pretty please :)

BTW, if you ever feel like working on the site again, a suggestion for making the luck page more readable; this is how it should be done IMO:
http://pool-x.eu/blocksAuth



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 01, 2011, 07:31:59 PM
They are pool hoppers. If they have no "hoppable" pool to hop to, they have been sending their hashes to us lately.

I know but somehow it seems like they are connected. Just wondering why they come to us almost at the same time.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: eleuthria on December 01, 2011, 07:38:43 PM
They are pool hoppers. If they have no "hoppable" pool to hop to, they have been sending their hashes to us lately.

I know but somehow it seems like they are connected. Just wondering why they come to us almost at the same time.

Hopping is pretty much just plugging pool stats into a formula, with maybe a little personal bias thrown in based on either past experiences or reliability between the pool and a particular user.  So you would expect hoppers to travel in groups, even if they're not related.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on December 01, 2011, 07:57:05 PM
They are pool hoppers. If they have no "hoppable" pool to hop to, they have been sending their hashes to us lately.

I know but somehow it seems like they are connected. Just wondering why they come to us almost at the same time.

Most hoppers are using the same database of pools, same algorithms, and same software.

When the code tells one hopper there is no pool which can be exploited and to fall back to the "fair value pool" the same situation is occurring for all hoppers at the same time.

There is some variation because hoppers might be using slightly different algorithms or have slightly different sets of pools but generally speaking when hoppers are falling back to us all the hoppers are falling back to all of their backups pools all across the network.  It means for that period of time that they are here, no victim pool presents >1.0 share value (efficiency).  As soon as the code identifies a pool to exploit they go there and keep jumping to the most exploitable pool until no pool is exploitable and then they come back here.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 01, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
 :) Makes sense, something new learnt.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 03, 2011, 11:38:40 AM
Not that one, the other one please. You know the one that produces blocks with less than 50% CDF pretty please :)

Oh you wanted the lucky blocks? Let's try that again..  ;D

BTW, if you ever feel like working on the site again, a suggestion for making the luck page more readable; this is how it should be done IMO:
http://pool-x.eu/blocksAuth

This looks nice. I will think about some changes for the future.

I've added a bot to the chat (IRC) that announces new blocks as they are generated:
Code:
12:31 -MintBot:#bitminter- Ding! Ding! BTC block no.155846 generated by Zalfrin
12:31 -MintBot:#bitminter- Ding! Ding! NMC block no.31569 generated by Zalfrin


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 03, 2011, 11:43:40 AM
Our bad luck forced me to change the pool  :-[. Since the electric costs are very high over here and my gains around (below) zero i had no other choice. It sucks because BitMinter has the best homepage and excellent stale rates compared to other pools.

I wish you the best luck for the next blocks.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRx2cICjWkidoszn6xY8iRP7eI1juYW2VwsxP98ZK47nhMHyj004g



Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 03, 2011, 12:39:31 PM
Our bad luck forced me to change the pool  :-[. Since the electric costs are very high over here and my gains around (below) zero i had no other choice. It sucks because BitMinter has the best homepage and excellent stale rates compared to other pools.

I know exactly how you feel, and I even pointed one of my machines to another pool for a while. But then I thought it through.. the bad luck already happened. Switching to a bigger pool now just solidifies that bad luck with no chance of reversing it,  as you'll miss out when the luck changes.  It would be smarter to switch to a larger pool after we had a lucky streak.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on December 03, 2011, 12:42:40 PM
me too. I will be back when the pool speed will be >600 GHs


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 04, 2011, 01:05:48 PM
If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

I can understand some users switching to pools with higher hashrate (and therefore lower variance), or PPS pools. Variance is a pain in a small pool when it's having bad luck. It is also very difficult to grow a pool up to a decent size. People leave because there aren't enough people. It's a catch-22.

Copying Wikipedia :D A personal appeal from the operator of the BitMinter pool: If you like this pool then please keep mining here so it can grow.

In other news, a new beta release over in the miner thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg640162#msg640162 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg640162#msg640162)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 04, 2011, 01:28:25 PM
If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

A (theoretical) infinitely large pool has no variance and is almost completely predictable. If you switch to such a pool after a stroke of bad luck at a small pool like ours, you will never make up for the bad luck youve already had. If you stick with the unlucky smaller pool with higher variance, its only a matter of time before the bad luck averages out.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on December 04, 2011, 02:13:37 PM
If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

Look, I'm sorry, since I use to stand with the underdogs and I like the pool, BUT I made about 9 BTC in november mining on Bitminter, while I am making 0.5 BTC/day on BTCGuild. I have an analogy about chances which may explain why smaller pools seem to underperform more often than not: If you bet on black or red playing roulette, you have a 50%/50% chance to win, but if you bet on a number, you have 1/72 chances, if I remember well, so you might gain more if you are lucky, but rarely *if ever*. Most likely, betting on numbers at roulette or mining in smaller pools you would end losing most of the times at any given time.

Of course, in the loooooooooong term, smaller pools should perform like the biggest.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 04, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

Look, I'm sorry, since I use to stand with the underdogs and I like the pool, BUT I made about 9 BTC in november mining on Bitminter, while I am making 0.5 BTC/day on BTCGuild. I have an analogy about chances which may explain why smaller pools seem to underperform more often than not: If you bet on black or red playing roulette, you have a 50%/50% chance to win, but if you bet on a number, you have 1/72 chances, if I remember well, so you might gain more if you are lucky (only at roulette, since poolmining you get the same fraction of winning in bigger and smaller pools), but rarely *if ever*. Most likely, you would end losing most of the time at any given time.

Of course, in the loooooooooong term, smaller pools should perform like the biggest.

And in the short term chances of a small pool doing far better than the big pools are the same as doing worse. How much did you make in september and october? Past month was terrible, but youve already had the bad luck, switching to another pool now cant undo that, it can only consolidate your loss with almost no chance of making up for it.

Anyway, its your call of course.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 04, 2011, 05:58:25 PM
At the moment we have good luck at eclipse. Pay out is fair over there. But no other pool i tried out so far comes close to BitMinters stale rates and homepage  :'(.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: conspirosphere.tk on December 05, 2011, 08:59:37 PM
Maybe there is a way for smaller pools: just contribute the whole pool's hashrate to a bigger pool, or -even better- find a way to cooperate among small pools in a bigger pool of pools. A dozen of pools with the speed of Bitminter would make a top-tier pool. Opinions?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 07, 2011, 07:56:54 AM
 ??? What's going on ? Sad to see so many leave. F...ing shame  :'(


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 07, 2011, 09:25:03 AM
Its rather clear whats going on. We are averaging over 3 million shares per block for quite some time now. Not sure what the statistical chances are over the last 11 blocks, but its definitely extremely unlucky. I suspect many worry there is something wrong with the pool or miner, or at least do like I started doing and spread their luck a bit by mining part time for bitminter and part time in a bigger pool.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 07, 2011, 10:05:10 AM
A couple weeks back we had 70+ Ghps with 90 users. Right now we have 44 Ghps with 101 users. It's not so much people leaving, but rather old miners spreading our their hashrate among multiple pools to reduce variance.

I'm pretty certain it's not a bug causing this. When the server sees a proof of work that beats the current difficulty it logs that fact before doing anything else. I'm not seeing any such messages without the next message stating that a block was created.

Variance is really annoying in small pools. What you are talking about, conspirosphere, is definitely the way to go. I've already been making some plans along those lines. Let's see what I can come up with..


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 09, 2011, 09:34:48 AM
There's an interview with me today (friday 2011.12.09) in the Norwegian business paper Dagens Næringsliv ("Business Today"), on page 24, about BitMinter.com and bitcoins in general. There's also a side article about Meze Grill. If you understand Norwegian you can buy a copy of today's paper at http://www.dn.no/avis/bestilling/dagens/eavis?execution=e1s1 (http://www.dn.no/avis/bestilling/dagens/eavis?execution=e1s1)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 09, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
Congrats ;) Now turn off this million share block limit  :P


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 09, 2011, 12:16:35 PM
I'm pretty certain it's not a bug causing this. When the server sees a proof of work that beats the current difficulty it logs that fact before doing anything else. I'm not seeing any such messages without the next message stating that a block was created.

And what about the client? It could be coincidence of course, but it seems our luck turned sour around the time of the last update. Might be worth double checking what client the miners are using that have been finding blocks lately.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 09, 2011, 05:13:04 PM
And what about the client? It could be coincidence of course, but it seems our luck turned sour around the time of the last update. Might be worth double checking what client the miners are using that have been finding blocks lately.

The regular (non-beta) version hasn't changed in a long time. And I haven't changed anything in the beta that should affect this. 4 days ago I made an NMC block and I'm always running the beta.

We're just having a long streak of bad luck, just like we had a long streak of good luck earlier. It would be preferable with more stable payouts of course, and I'm looking into what I can do to reduce the variance.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 09, 2011, 08:06:29 PM
Just noticed block 213 got confirmed and paid out instantly?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 09, 2011, 08:17:44 PM
Just noticed block 213 got confirmed and paid out instantly?

Looking into it..


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 09, 2011, 10:24:50 PM
Block 213 is orphaned (aka "invalid"). Another pool created the block a few seconds before us, and our block was orphaned upon creation. As if the bad luck lately wasn't enough.

When I was reading bitcoind and namecoind source code to decipher how to implement merged mining it seems I made a mistake which lead to a bug with detection of invalid blocks. These things can happen when you hurry to implement merged mining based on undocumented features. Still, doing so was my own decision, so I can't complain.

Please note that the server always tells bitcoind to create a block when it gets a proof of work that is good enough. The long blocks lately are just plain bad luck. This bug only affects the detection of invalid blocks. It cannot lead to loss of money for miners, only for the pool op.

There never was any 50 BTC from block 213, and I didn't actually intend to pay for invalid blocks. But the 50 BTC is already paid out, and it's my fault for not properly detecting failed blocks. I'll pay it out of my own pocket.

The bad luck has to end some time, right?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 10, 2011, 09:56:13 AM
Already feared it was something like that. Nice of you to pay it anyway. This mine pooling business is becoming a real money printing machine for you, isnt it  :-\?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 10, 2011, 10:40:01 AM
This mine pooling business is becoming a real money printing machine for you, isnt it  :-\?

 ??? what do you mean ?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 10, 2011, 10:48:47 AM
Already feared it was something like that. Nice of you to pay it anyway. This mine pooling business is becoming a real money printing machine for you, isnt it  :-\?

Haha, yes. Bottom line so far is a loss of just over 200 bitcoins. Maybe it's time to implement that donation feature soon. :P


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: freakfantom on December 10, 2011, 02:12:27 PM
Is it possible to convert Bitcoins into Namecoins?


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: bronan on December 10, 2011, 02:31:48 PM
You can send any coin to an exchange and there buy the coins you want
The one i use the most is BTC-E where i do change litecoin and namecoin into bitcoin


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 13, 2011, 06:49:47 PM
The datacenter hosting the BitMinter server is having an outage right now. Let's hope it will be short.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 13, 2011, 06:57:16 PM
We are back up again :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 16, 2011, 06:53:21 PM
And you also finally re-enabled the block finding cheat :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 16, 2011, 08:17:49 PM
And you also finally re-enabled the block finding cheat :)

Yeah, the cheat is a bit flaky. Kinda like this car (il tempo gigante) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ShwTIhGyw


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 24, 2011, 03:37:48 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vCA04XHkL1c/TaU3IMG_QtI/AAAAAAAAAhU/E2nI4AXi6G4/s1600/terminator-im-back.jpg


Title: Re: [56 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 26, 2011, 12:18:15 AM
Welcome back, Turbor and the others who returned :)

Quick update on the website:
  • You can now add multiple OpenID identities to your bitminter account, go to My Account->Logins in the menus
  • Account balances again shown at the top of the transactions list. This had accidentally disappeared after the changes to how balances are shown on the "account details" page
  • Fixed block and shift timestamps on the full-page livestats page to be UTC timezone like all other timestamps on the website
  • Fixed full-page livestats sometimes playing the "new block" sound when there was no new block

In other news, v1.1.0 of the BitMinter miner is out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg662061#msg662061
And also, today we have 1500 members :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Proofer on December 29, 2011, 03:52:16 PM
During my first BitMinter session, about 12 hours in:

https://bitminter.com/members/workers:
21,021 accepted, 56 rejected

cgminer status line:
21,218 accepted, 18 rejected

Any thoughts on the big difference in rejected count?

Also... what does "CDF" stand for on the BitMinter live stats page?

Thanks...


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: btc_artist on December 29, 2011, 04:56:26 PM
Also... what does "CDF" stand for on the BitMinter live stats page?
If you mouse over "CDF" it gives an explanation. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulative_distribution_function


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Proofer on December 29, 2011, 05:45:51 PM
Also... what does "CDF" stand for on the BitMinter live stats page?
If you mouse over "CDF" it gives an explanation. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulative_distribution_function

Thanks.  I noticed the dotted underlines and tried to get the hover tips before posting my previous but I guess I didn't  hover long enough.

Now I notice that the hover-tip definition of Difficulty must be incorrect:

Difficulty: "The chance that a proof of work will create a block is 1 divided by the difficulty. ..."

Accepted: "Proofs of work that would create a block at difficulty 1. Most will not actually create a block but serve as a measure of the amount of work done by each user."

Going by that, 100% of proofs of work would create a block at difficulty 1.

Alas, en.bitcoin.it is currently down and I don't know where else to look for a definition of difficulty.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on December 30, 2011, 09:33:39 AM
https://bitminter.com/members/workers:
21,021 accepted, 56 rejected

cgminer status line:
21,218 accepted, 18 rejected

The server is telling the miner that the share is rejected only if it is rejected on both chains (bitcoin and namecoin). I agree this is confusing. Better to report accept/reject to miner based on the bitcoin chain only, perhaps?

Difficulty: "The chance that a proof of work will create a block is 1 divided by the difficulty. ..."

Accepted: "Proofs of work that would create a block at difficulty 1. Most will not actually create a block but serve as a measure of the amount of work done by each user."

Going by that, 100% of proofs of work would create a block at difficulty 1.

Yes, if the bitcoin difficulty was 1 then every proof of work you send to the pool (that is not stale/rejected) would create a new block. The bitcoin difficulty is much higher than 1, though.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: mackminer on December 30, 2011, 06:16:08 PM
Hi,
Can anyone tell me why my expected payout per block is really low on my account at about 5?

A block hasn't been found in 2 days now and I'm consistently contributing about 10% of the hashing power of the pool.

Thanks.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on December 30, 2011, 06:23:46 PM
Hi,
Can anyone tell me why my expected payout per block is really low on my account at about 5?

A block hasn't been found in 2 days now and I'm consistently contributing about 10% of the hashing power of the pool.

Thanks.

10% of the hashing power would result in 10% of the block reward, being around 5?
edit: and yes, we are having an unlucky block again. On a good day we should find 2 or 3.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on December 30, 2011, 06:31:22 PM
Hey mackminer, nice to see some bigger miners at bitminter. DrHaribo should know best about payout. When i was mining at EMC we often had 4000000+ share blocks. Since we are that small, it takes a while to mine down such a block.

Edit: here is the payout for the last block https://bitminter.com/block/btc/159569 (https://bitminter.com/block/btc/159569) looks ok to me ?!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on December 30, 2011, 09:58:58 PM
Hey mackminer, nice to see some bigger miners at bitminter. DrHaribo should know best about payout. When i was mining at EMC we often had 4000000+ share blocks. Since we are that small, it takes a while to mine down such a block.

Edit: here is the payout for the last block https://bitminter.com/block/btc/159569 (https://bitminter.com/block/btc/159569) looks ok to me ?!

"Successful minting by: DeathAndTaxes"  BOOYAH

As far as the payout.  Remember PPLNS is subject to "luck variance".  If you contribute 10% of hashing power then you get 10% of the rewards.  If that ends up being 3 blocks in one day that is 50*3*10% = 15 BTC per day.  If that ends up being one block in 3 days 50/3*10% = 1.67 BTC

Those are pretty much the two extremes I have seen.  In the long run you will earn 10% of what the pool earns and that works out to ~1 BTC per GH per day (at current difficulty).


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: mackminer on December 30, 2011, 10:36:03 PM
Thanks for clarifying this.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 01, 2012, 01:46:33 PM
Happy new year everyone. Looks like we had a good start. Found my first block... finally  :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 01, 2012, 03:16:57 PM
Yes, very lucky start on the new year. Let's hope it continues this way.

Happy new year! And congrats on your first bitcoin block, Turbor! :)


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 01, 2012, 03:22:48 PM
3 blocks in little over a day.  I am liking that.   However I no longer makeup 20% of the pool.  Good the pool is growing but I liked pulling down a solid 10 BTC per block.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 01, 2012, 04:35:06 PM
3 blocks in little over a day. 

Look again. ITs 4 blocks in 24 hours now. Actually in less than 12 hours. Gotta be a record.


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 01, 2012, 05:58:27 PM
5  ;D


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 01, 2012, 07:44:38 PM
Indeed lol. Just a day after I rented half my hashing power to some  startup pool. Still nice :)

edit: and there is number 6

306    35955    2012-01-01 20:43    0h 04m    4,110    409,454    1.0%    71.757    NMC    DeathAndTaxes    119 left
305    160164    2012-01-01 20:39    2h 58m    184,723    1,159,929    14.7%    74.189    BTC    Kraken    118 left
304    35953    2012-01-01 20:39    2h 58m    183,009    409,454    36.0%    73.515    NMC    Kraken    117 left
303    160146    2012-01-01 17:40    2h 02m    128,879    1,159,929    10.5%    75.259    BTC    bitcoinpappi    100 left
302    35933    2012-01-01 17:40    2h 02m    127,437    409,454    26.7%    74.437    NMC    bitcoinpappi    97 left
301    160138    2012-01-01 15:38    6h 41m    426,239    1,159,929    30.8%    76.012    BTC    bitcoinpappi    92 left
300    35920    2012-01-01 15:38    0h 58m    62,494    409,454    14.2%    75.843    NMC    bitcoinpappi    84 left
299    35912    2012-01-01 14:39    5h 42m    359,039    409,454    58.4%    75.072    NMC    ibehnk    76 left
298    160090    2012-01-01 08:56    3h 26m    221,858    1,159,929    17.4%    76.938    BTC    Turbor    44 left
297    35873    2012-01-01 08:56    3h 26m    219,601    409,454    41.5%    76.173    NMC    Turbor    37 left
296    160065    2012-01-01 05:30    0h 46m    51,034    1,159,929    4.3%    78.817    BTC    mmariotti    19 left
295    35846    2012-01-01 05:30    0h 46m    50,487    409,454    11.6%    78.056    NMC    mmariotti    10 left
294    160060    2012-01-01 04:43    23h 41m    1,550,221    1,159,929    73.7%    78.039    BTC    pageus    14 left
293    35841    2012-01-01 04:43    1h 44m    113,787    409,454    24.3%    77.758    NMC    pageus    5 left
292    35829    2012-01-01 02:59    21h 57m    1,420,942    409,454    96.9%    77.226    NMC    ibehnk    confirmed

I could get used to this!


Title: Re: [70 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 02, 2012, 03:39:54 AM
Words cannot adequately describe how much I love this pool :D And sometime next week, I can finally pull out of my number 50 spot on the top 50, and into maybe the top 30 with the addition of my 2 5870s! 


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: SgtMoth on January 05, 2012, 09:40:21 PM
2012.01.04 [10:49]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 22 sec.
2012.01.04 [21:32]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 25 sec.
2012.01.04 [21:39]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 21 sec.
2012.01.04 [22:00]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 28 sec.
2012.01.04 [22:05]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 23 sec.
2012.01.04 [22:18]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 20 sec.
2012.01.04 [22:23]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:44]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 33 sec.
2012.01.05 [00:45]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 21 sec.
2012.01.05 [00:45]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:46]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:46]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:46]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 27 sec.
2012.01.05 [00:46]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:47]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:47]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [00:48]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [01:02]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:19]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 23 sec.
2012.01.05 [04:19]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:19]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:20]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:21]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:22]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:22]  Cypress (#3) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:22]  Cayman (#2) ran out of work. Idling...
2012.01.05 [04:22]  Cayman (#1) ran out of work. Idling..



Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 05, 2012, 09:47:22 PM
2012.01.04 [10:49]  Warning - slow network or server. Request took 22 sec.


Are you sure it isn't your local network...  I am not seeing any issue.  No idled cards, not even any slow pool notifications.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 05, 2012, 09:50:07 PM
No probs here either.. check our avatars. The website has been slow today tho


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: SgtMoth on January 06, 2012, 01:07:21 AM
must have been


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 06, 2012, 11:59:53 AM
I saw unstable network 05:17-05:34 and 07:30-07:33 (CET timezone). Sometimes GPUs idling and sometimes working but with slow network warnings. Maybe this coincides with your log but different timezone.

Sorry for this.

I have noticed sometimes that the server loses network connectivity for 2-3 seconds at a time. And now it seems the network was very unstable for several minutes at a time. Also there was the time a couple months back when the data center's routers were hacked and they were off the internet for several hours. I was planning to move to a new server and data center in a few weeks. But I may have to move sooner if things get worse.

Also, can someone please finish this block?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 06, 2012, 12:14:21 PM
Also, can someone please finish this block?

http://farmnsanity.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Make-it-stop.jpg


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 06, 2012, 07:24:15 PM
Man this block never ends.

DrHaribo why does the block page only show blocks from 280 onward?  For historical reasons (like have we ever had a worse block? which I don't think so BTW) it would be nice to be able to look back to block 1.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 06, 2012, 08:10:39 PM
I know. I will make it possible to see older blocks. That's been on my list a long time. ;)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 06, 2012, 09:41:56 PM
By the way, you can see the luck of all the blocks at https://bitminter.com/stats/luck
 (https://bitminter.com/stats/luck)

Looks like 98.0% CDF is the worst we've had. At the time I write this the current block is 97.93% CDF. Could become a new record for bad luck. :(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Geir on January 06, 2012, 10:51:51 PM
And we have a new record :(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: rjk on January 06, 2012, 10:53:54 PM
BLOCK! ;D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 06, 2012, 10:56:22 PM
 :'(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 06, 2012, 11:04:37 PM
The litecoin pool-x have a system that I dont quite know the details about, but they give a bonus/bounty to anyone solving a long block. That may not be a bad idea.

To give a good example, I hereby pledge 0.25 BTC to the person finding the next block on bitminter (if he claims it here, Im not gonna chase him).


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 06, 2012, 11:25:13 PM
Damn, that's not the record I wanted us to break.

P4man, interesting idea. I'll think about implementing something like that.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on January 07, 2012, 04:51:50 AM
I've been away..

Just came back, using the bitminter client on a winxp machine...

its a 5850 ati, and never had this problem..

its over clocked to around the 350 mhash level, and it seems to climb to around that number and the fan slows, and seems to throttle down just for a second, once it passes roughly around 348-350 mhash..

it clearly slows and drops to around 300 -320 mhash, then climbs, and repeats...   the heat is fine, and I can lower the overclock to less and dosent seem to change things..

Anyone else seen this before ? any suggestions..

All I know is that it never did this before..  I was using a client from a month ago and it was nice,, was clocking up around 360 steady mhash...

 ???


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 07, 2012, 06:32:21 AM
2012-01-07 00:09   80.88%   NMC   SirJMD
2012-01-06 12:49   71.21%   NMC   paymium
2012-01-06 04:29   96.67%   NMC   mqpickens
2012-01-05 08:10   64.95%   NMC   btc196
2012-01-05 01:50   17.93%   NMC   mmariotti
2012-01-05 00:41   79.78%   NMC   kennelguy
2012-01-04 15:13   54.31%   NMC   mackminer
2012-01-04 10:42   67.21%    BTC   mqpickens
2012-01-04 10:42   29.09%   NMC   mqpickens
2012-01-04 08:40   44.29%   NMC   DeathAndTaxes


Mqpickens...what is your secret? lmao. We'll get out of this block before you know it guys. then maybe we can get another 5 in one day?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 07, 2012, 09:41:12 AM
Welcome back, teflone :)

it clearly slows and drops to around 300 -320 mhash, then climbs, and repeats...

Hmm, did you update Catalyst since last you were mining? The miner runs slower on the latest Catalyst. I've never seen it going up and down that much though.

If you have another miner installed you could see if it has the same problem.

We'll get out of this block before you know it guys. then maybe we can get another 5 in one day?

Let's hope for that! The annoying thing with bitcoin mining is that you spend most of your time on the unlucky blocks. The lucky ones finish so quickly. ;)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 07, 2012, 10:01:41 AM
Just hang on... the end is near  ;)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 07, 2012, 10:04:33 AM
The end is near? That sounds... not very reassuring!

btw, about a bounty system, perhaps you could make proportional to the CDF, once above a certain treshold (say 90% or something). Its something pool hoppers could exploit, but I wouldnt mind some poolhoppers joining at this point.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 07, 2012, 10:29:32 AM
Hehe that's true, the bounty can be pool hopped. Kind of works the opposite of normal pool hopping - you have to join the server when it's having an unlucky block. ;)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 07, 2012, 11:23:16 AM
Wow! 5,348,402 proofs of work and 99.0% CDF.

Finally the block was built by our hero DeathAndTaxes!


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 07, 2012, 11:25:46 AM
Pfew. About time that :). DnT, gimme an address, I owe you .25 :)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 07, 2012, 11:41:20 AM
Lol, and that is probably the fastest block ever? DnT, will you marry me :D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 07, 2012, 11:56:48 AM
DNT all the way ! ;D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 07, 2012, 12:43:33 PM
Way to go DAT, bravo!
Code:
334 161059 2012-01-07 11:28 0h 09m 9,781 1,159,929 0.8% 74.352 BTC DeathAndTaxes 109 left
333 36874 2012-01-07 11:28 0h 09m 9,661 463,897 2.1% 73.964 NMC DeathAndTaxes 110 left
332 161058 2012-01-07 11:19 3d 0h 36m 5,348,402 1,159,929 99.0% 87.875 BTC DeathAndTaxes 108 left
331 36872 2012-01-07 11:18 11h 09m 691,533 463,897 77.5% 73.911 NMC DeathAndTaxes 108 left


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 07, 2012, 04:10:09 PM
Way to go DAT, bravo!
Code:
334 161059 2012-01-07 11:28 0h 09m 9,781 1,159,929 0.8% 74.352 BTC DeathAndTaxes 109 left
333 36874 2012-01-07 11:28 0h 09m 9,661 463,897 2.1% 73.964 NMC DeathAndTaxes 110 left
332 161058 2012-01-07 11:19 3d 0h 36m 5,348,402 1,159,929 99.0% 87.875 BTC DeathAndTaxes 108 left
331 36872 2012-01-07 11:18 11h 09m 691,533 463,897 77.5% 73.911 NMC DeathAndTaxes 108 left

Nice.  Glad I could help.  Also glad we got a quick one to make up for that 5.3 million monster.

Also I think that means I hold the "record" for both longest block and shortest block (based on CDF).


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 07, 2012, 04:43:57 PM
DnT with his Mega hash monster rigs FTW


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 07, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
Anyone else notice the webserver (not mining server) is veeeeerrrryyy slow.  Not down but page loads are taking multiple seconds and sometimes timing out?  Just me?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 07, 2012, 05:21:09 PM
DnT with his Mega hash monster rigs FTW

Grr. I think that monster block killed one of my USB drives.*

* Well probably not but it makes a good story.  One of my USB drives got corrupted this morning and won't respond to a format. :(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on January 07, 2012, 06:35:52 PM
Anyone else notice the webserver (not mining server) is veeeeerrrryyy slow.  Not down but page loads are taking multiple seconds and sometimes timing out?  Just me?

Yes, I've also noticed it..  very slow response..

On other notes, I just used pheonix to mine on bitminter, the java isnt working good for me..

And my ramp up and ramp down in hashing dosent happen with the guiminer.. 

Thanks!


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 07, 2012, 09:11:59 PM
DnT with his Mega hash monster rigs FTW

Grr. I think that monster block killed one of my USB drives.*

* Well probably not but it makes a good story.  One of my USB drives got corrupted this morning and won't respond to a format. :(

I presume you are using linux?
If you're on Windows, Try running chkdsk on the dead drive.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 07, 2012, 09:22:35 PM
Maybe we (can) make 4 or 5 Blocks yet today? (Fingers Crossed)

2012-01-07 15:12   18.63%   BTC   arvee
2012-01-07 11:28   0.84%   BTC   DeathAndTaxes
2012-01-07 11:19   99.01%   BTC   DeathAndTaxes

also, just noticed, 98.17% difficulty between DnTs 1st block and 2nd block today...lol I'm sending a bitquarter for that boss...


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 07, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
...I think that monster block killed one of my USB drives...

DAT, please be sure to hose the drive completely with zeroes using dd. If there's some damage to the flash chip itself, dd might fail at the faulty address. Then, partition the drive so that the failed sector is unused. I'm assuming that's a cheap cost-effective drive without wear leveling. If there is wear leveling, you'll never know what's really going on below the write remapper.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 08, 2012, 04:46:12 PM
Website is down.. or so slow it times out.
It has been becoming slower and slower these past days.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 08, 2012, 04:49:25 PM
Sabotage ? :D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 08, 2012, 05:13:09 PM
I don't know but maybe DrHaribo can give us some insight on what is going on with the server.  
If you need funds for a better server I would gladly chip in.  This pool has been good for me.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 08, 2012, 05:28:59 PM
Looking into it. Only the webserver running slowly. Luckily, mining is going fine. Normal load on the server, so not sure yet what's wrong.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 08, 2012, 06:01:16 PM
I don't know but maybe DrHaribo can give us some insight on what is going on with the server.  

The web server process was overloaded with more requests than it was configured for. The rest of the server was ok, but the web part was slowing down badly. With port 80 mining going through the web server, a lot of bitcointalk users loading the avatar images, plus more people using and visiting BitMinter than before, the pressure on the web server has gone up lately.

I modified the configuration and restarted the web server. It seems to be running fine again now. I just have to be careful I don't let it use too many resources and affect the mining.

The Apache web server software scales really badly (it needs insane amounts of memory when you have many users). I always intended to switch to the more modern Nginx, but I've been putting it off to instead implement new BitMinter features. I may have to switch soon, though.

If you need funds for a better server I would gladly chip in.  This pool has been good for me.

Thanks a lot for the offer. After a couple little fixes I am working on now I will implement donations. If miners donate a little I'll look at some bigger servers. :)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: simon66 on January 09, 2012, 04:29:06 AM
Some how it kinda lags for me. I still get my 200 mh/s but it looks like the program is lagging.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 09, 2012, 06:46:17 AM
Some how it kinda lags for me. I still get my 200 mh/s but it looks like the program is lagging.

Try clicking the "tune & tweak" button for the GPU and selecting a lower work interval. Try 5 ms, that should be smooth, or even 1 ms.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: 99Percent on January 13, 2012, 03:38:01 PM
My first try at pool mining with DiabloMiner

I get: ERROR: cannot connect to mint.bitminter.com Bitcoin disconnected during response: 500 Internal Server Error

What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bitcoin client running on my miner?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 13, 2012, 03:40:06 PM
My first try at pool mining with DiabloMiner

I get: ERROR: cannot connect to mint.bitminter.com Bitcoin disconnected during response: 500 Internal Server Error

What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bitcoin client running on my miner?

No.  The error message is misleading.   Make sure you have your workers, username, password, url correct.

BitMinter uses _ naming convention.  ACCOUNT_WORKER

if you still get errors provide the full connection string (just replace password w/ pass)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 13, 2012, 04:29:08 PM
The error message is misleading.

Sorry about that. It's fixed in a new version of the mining back end that I hope soon to put into production.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 14, 2012, 09:57:10 AM
New mining back end is up and running. Sorry if you got a couple rejected proofs of work during the switch.

This fixes the error mentioned in the previous posts. Long polling has also been improved, but we'll have to wait and see whether it will have a visible effect on the number of rejected proofs of work. Also, connections from miners are kept alive longer. There's at least one buggy miner that attempts to reuse connections that have been closed. This should result in fewer error messages in such miners because the server won't close the connection on you as long as you are actively mining.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 16, 2012, 04:08:50 PM
This fixes the error mentioned in the previous posts. Long polling has also been improved, but we'll have to wait and see whether it will have a visible effect on the number of rejected proofs of work.

Id say, mission accomplished:

http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/1/1502034470.jpg (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/692270/930009)

0.08% is something I can live with :)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 16, 2012, 07:18:01 PM
Today is one of the better days !


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 16, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
Updated website front page with 2 new carousel images by ElideN - thanks!

Also nice: 4 BTC blocks today :)

Id say, mission accomplished

Yeah, those tweaks had more effect than I thought - nice :)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: btc_artist on January 17, 2012, 09:08:06 AM
DrHaribo, have you considered adding Devcoin merged mining support?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 17, 2012, 06:06:04 PM
Devcoin - I don't know if I believe in that one. A coin where some central dude gets 10% of the minted coins, and he decides how to distribute 80% of the coins to "developers" by some criteria I don't know about. The last 10% goes to miners.

And also, why would anyone pay for those devcoins? Because they want to donate to open source? Just send bitcoins instead. If you send bitcoins, 100% of your donation goes to the developer.

If miners here want it I could implement it even if I don't understand the purpose of devcoin. But I'm also worried about a 51% attack being very easy against such a tiny coin. Wasn't there recently some sort of attack against a new coin?

If you go to devcoin.org you see devcoin has its own pool at pool.devcoin.org. Strangely it says "You are here: BitMinersUnion.org - Pool Statistics". BitMinersUnion? And also "Pool Hash Rate: 0 Ghash/s", "Active Workers: 1". There seems to be only one dude mining?

I think it could be cool to have some more coins or other bitcoin-like commodities in the pool. But I just wish the bitcoin clones would have some real purpose and novel features. Well, maybe I'm mixing up purpose and profitability?

Any thoughts, everyone? Devcoin? Litecoin? Others?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: btc_artist on January 17, 2012, 06:41:41 PM
I think it could be cool to have some more coins or other bitcoin-like commodities in the pool. But I just wish the bitcoin clones would have some real purpose and novel features. Well, maybe I'm mixing up purpose and profitability?

Any thoughts, everyone? Devcoin? Litecoin? Others?
I wasn't making any comment on the usefulness of devcoin, I just don't see a reason not to merge mine and sell the devcoins for a tiny bit of extra profit.

In terms of purpose, Litecoin looks to be the best of the alt chains, but it can't be merge-mined with Bitcoin.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 17, 2012, 07:35:52 PM
Any thoughts, everyone? Devcoin? Litecoin? Others?

None of the above.  There is always a cost.  Merged mining isn't free for the pool operator.  It takes time, introduces bugs, requires testing, likely new pages/reports, etc.

Time & resources better spent making Bitminter the best Bitcoin pool. 


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 17, 2012, 08:37:58 PM
Please don't make me heartbroken Haribo as I know I will be if I lose this pool.
Stales are pretty much extinct here and I'd prefer for it to stay this way.
How about staying true to the old *nix paradigm "Do One Thing and Do It Well"?

Alternative *coins are basically worthless and I don't think anyone actually gives a rat's ass about them.
Litecoin is laughable trying to coexist with Bitcoin. Current btc-e price is 1200 LTC for one BTC.
This CPU-based coin is apparently mined by kids trying to make use of their mining rigs' CPUs forgetting that CPUs use power as well.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 17, 2012, 10:52:11 PM
litecoin mining at least makes more sense than mining bitcoins with the cpu, as currently implemented in bitminter miner app. I think its an okay way to introduce people to the concept, and its nice to be able to mine several coins per hour rather than per year, even though they are close to worthless. Think of if as a testnet.

As for merged mining other coins; meh. From a miner's profit motive, its really not worth it. And to support those chains, I havent seen any one I feel like worth supporting, with the possible exception of namecoin, but thats already implemented (and not worth it anymore either from a profit POV).


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Digigami on January 18, 2012, 12:22:57 AM
My opinion is we stay with BTC/NMC, I have no interest in any other coins


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 18, 2012, 06:48:05 PM
We may wish to petition the mods for getting stickied as a top 10 pool.

It looks like ozcoin is ~20GH/s and is still stickied.

On edit: looks like their 24 hour avg is 85GH/s and their 7 day avg is 200 GH/s.  Maybe we shouldn't contact admin yet but we should keep an eye on it.



Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Kain on January 18, 2012, 07:09:57 PM
They appear to be running at half that.
Time for a BitMinter rise to power?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 18, 2012, 07:15:33 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKb-DDVSbnBFsg5Lf-BOxRBVnoSH0DjQyfySuoIa-fJS3D5VW3


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 18, 2012, 09:35:49 PM
Time & resources better spent making Bitminter the best Bitcoin pool. 

True, adding new coins takes some effort. It's all about making the right priorities.

Alternative *coins are basically worthless and I don't think anyone actually gives a rat's ass about them.

Well, yeah, after all that hard work to implement merged mining, it turns out most miners don't care at all about namecoins. And some miners are just confused by them. They wonder what they should do with them, or how to put them in their bitcoin wallet.

So I think I'll put this off for now. After putting in a lot of work changing the system so it can handle more than just bitcoins, it would be cool to make more use of those possibilities. But at the moment I'm not sure it makes sense.

Time for a BitMinter rise to power?

Yeah, let's do this!


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 18, 2012, 09:42:57 PM
So I think I'll put this off for now. After putting in a lot of work changing the system so it can handle more than just bitcoins, it would be cool to make more use of those possibilities. But at the moment I'm not sure it makes sense.

I am sure eventually someone will make a an alt-coin with a purpose.  Blockchains can be used for some many normally centralized functions.  Coins which exist to be an alternative to Bitcoin serve no larger purpose.   Eventually someone will make a useful alt-coin and then Bitminter will be ready.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 19, 2012, 04:51:24 AM
With all this SOPA crap going on in the US, and Censorship abroad, I believe Namecoin will come into its own. If I read everything properly anyway.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Kain on January 19, 2012, 10:44:56 AM
Looks like another stubborn block.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 19, 2012, 10:47:02 AM
Yeah, but whos complaining. We are still way ahead of our expected revenue. You cant be lucky every single day. Well, at least its statistically very unlikely :).


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 19, 2012, 11:32:28 AM
Yeah, but whos complaining. We are still way ahead of our expected revenue. You cant be lucky every single day. Well, at least its statistically very unlikely :).

Compared to other pools we have been very lucky so far. We had like two or three big blocks other pools have every week.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 19, 2012, 01:40:42 PM
Nothing a doubling of hashpower can't "solve".  At current difficulty it takes ~62GH/s to acheive an average of one block per day.  With variance that ranges from maybe 3x to 1/3.

What seems psychological painful isn't long rounds (deep bit has plenty of long rounds) it is going a "whole day" with no payout.

At ~186GH/s we will average 3 blocks per day.  97% of the time our daily "take" will be 1 to 9 blocks.  So on average we should only have 1 no-payout day per month. 

Granted in the "long run" none of this matters because average reward is average reward but psychologically it will help gain and retain miners especially the kind who are influenced by luck and "not getting paid".

I believe we can get BitMinter to 200GH/s this year. 


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 19, 2012, 07:21:59 PM
I intend to add 1600 Mhash/s with 2 of the BFL fpga miners as soon as my tax return comes back. (We shall see if they can run like they say they do)
http://www.butterflylabs.com/product-details/


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 19, 2012, 09:31:22 PM
I intend to add 1600 Mhash/s with 2 of the BFL fpga miners as soon as my tax return comes back. (We shall see if they can run like they say they do)
http://www.butterflylabs.com/product-details/

Spoke with Sonny not to long ago. I really hope they can deliver soon.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Kain on January 20, 2012, 04:19:59 AM
While nowhere near as large-scale as most of you guys, I'm planning on supplementing my 6770 with an FPGA sometime in the next 3 months.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 20, 2012, 04:57:59 AM
every little "bit" helps...lol


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Kain on January 20, 2012, 05:02:37 AM
every little "bit" helps...lol
Very punny. lol


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 20, 2012, 05:03:55 AM
this is a "pun" pool to hang with ;D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 20, 2012, 11:35:06 AM
Cool to get some more FPGAs connected! :)

By the way, I noticed every once in a while there is a HEAD request to the pool back end. Is there miner software using HEAD requests?

Currently the server responds with "500 Internal Server Error" which is clearly wrong. I'll change this to either "405 Method Not Allowed" or "501 Not Implemented".

If someone has a need and purpose for using HEAD requests, I can implement it. It just seems odd as JSON-RPC is based on using only POST requests.

-end of today's technical nonsense- ;)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 20, 2012, 11:49:37 AM
Cool to get some more FPGAs connected! :)

By the way, I noticed every once in a while there is a HEAD request to the pool back end. Is there miner software using HEAD requests?

Currently the server responds with "500 Internal Server Error" which is clearly wrong. I'll change this to either "405 Method Not Allowed" or "501 Not Implemented".

If someone has a need and purpose for using HEAD requests, I can implement it. It just seems odd as JSON-RPC is based on using only POST requests.

-end of today's technical nonsense- ;)


Don't know who else is using fpgas. Maybe it's ztexs mining software ? I have 800 MH/s fpga power at your pool, soon upgrading to 1.2k MH.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 20, 2012, 11:59:00 AM
Cool to get some more FPGAs connected! :)

By the way, I noticed every once in a while there is a HEAD request to the pool back end. Is there miner software using HEAD requests?

Probably some search indexing bot, no?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 21, 2012, 04:03:48 AM
pool speed at 99.15 Ghash/s gents. Good times.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 21, 2012, 09:53:14 PM
who all is FPGA mining on Bitminter? ???


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 21, 2012, 11:17:11 PM
who all is FPGA mining on Bitminter? ???

I am 8)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 22, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
on all 1.4 ghash?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: marks1976 on January 22, 2012, 07:44:19 AM
I have just started looking at the FPGA mining and wonder the best way to get started with it and does it work with bitminter.  Right now I have two radeons putting out 700/Mhash in the pool now.  Less energy is a good way to go here.  Old house not a lot of juice coming in to start.  Right now I run 2 seperate computers to mine due to power supply and hardware issues.  Any thoughts?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 22, 2012, 07:47:45 AM
I have 3 comps running , 2 5870's and a 4890. Using just bitminter software, I am pulling about an average of 800 Mhash/s (all windows comps) I am hoping to add to BFL fpga's to my inventory shortly, after I do a little more research on them.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: marks1976 on January 22, 2012, 07:56:50 AM
I am running a 5830 and 6950 in windows machines and hits 700M/h steady on bitminter and a bit lower on other miners.  I want to add more hash and power is a concern for cost and supply to my house.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 22, 2012, 08:14:47 AM
I'm considering a small solar array to power a remote fpga cluster in the future months. You have your host computer, connected to an inverter you can easily pull from a used gas generator. have a relay that kicks to grid power when inverter cant keep up. The inverter is hooked to a small bank of batteries (marine 12 v. deep cycle) The batteries are hooked to a cheap charge controller found on ebay, which is in turn hooked to solar cells. Host computer already performs well on the network wireless with a virgin mobile cell usb stick, so one would not even need to technically have a grid connect if you had enough sun and a big enough bank of batteries. (my host is my 4890, and my ghetto solar rig was cobbled together from ebay deals.)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: marks1976 on January 22, 2012, 08:47:28 AM
You are running FPGA's on here with no problem?  Are you using the Bitminter software?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 22, 2012, 09:03:03 AM
Bitminter (app) doesnt support FPGAs. Yet, and I dont even know if its planned. Its still a relatively niche market, and bitminter (the app) aims to make mining easy for the less technical, so Im not sure it makes a lot of sense for DrHaribo to invest time in supporting them at this point. Wouldnt be easy either without access to the hardware.

Of course you can use the pool with whatever miner app you want, or whats supplied with the FPGA.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 22, 2012, 10:47:03 AM
on all 1.4 ghash?


No, only 800 MH/s.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 22, 2012, 10:56:14 AM
I'm considering a small solar array

Wow, this is interesting stuff. People are always saying solar is too expensive and can't be done profitably. How much for this equipment on ebay? And how many watts do you get out of it?

Bitminter (app) doesnt support FPGAs. Yet, and I dont even know if its planned.

Supporting FPGAs is on my list. But I have to prioritize first what matters for large groups of users. In the beginning I made the miner the fastest on 6970/6990, but it was slow on older cards. That wasn't a good idea. I think the big masses of miners were on 58xx and probably still are. So, in short: first things first. Hmm, and "BitMinter client" is a stupid and confusing name. Maybe I should find a new one to better tell the miner apart from the rest of BitMinter.

By the way, block 401 (namecoin at height 39183, built by Fefox) could have produced a bitcoin block as well. But the proof of work was stale, probably just seconds too late. I also noticed we were up to 0.5% rejected on bitcoin proofs of work.

I am working on some things to improve this. I have prioritized long polling running on my test server. Fast miners get long poll messages first. This may seem unfair to the slowest miners, but it's for the good of the pool and all of us. When fast miners produce stale work they produce more of it than slow miners, so it makes sense to give them fresh work first. When donations are implemented I'm thinking of making that part of the prioritization as well.

I'm also making some other changes to improve long polling and speed up the server in general. Hopefully there will be a new version of the pool back end sometime in the next few days.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 22, 2012, 11:13:18 AM

I am working on some things to improve this. I have prioritized long polling running on my test server. Fast miners get long poll messages first.

Good idea.

Quote
When donations are implemented I'm thinking of making that part of the prioritization as well.

Bad idea. Think about it, having high priority LP is no benefit to any individual miner, whether he donates or not; particularly if he has a low hashrate. Its a benefit to everyone in the pool if he has a high hashrate.

Im sure you're thinking hard of ways to give people an incentive to donate, but this isnt the one. If you would implement a bounty system for finding long blocks, perhaps you could match that with donations. For instance only donators are eligible for the bonus. Other things to consider, would be extra services, if you can implement it, like email or sms notifications for solving blocks, hashrate alerts and the like.  Or at least a JSON interface that would allow others to implement it, currently you can only get general pool stats over JSON, not individual stats.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 22, 2012, 11:42:46 AM
Biggest-miners-first is a tried and true algorithm beneficial for the pool and its operator.
P4Man already made his point about donations and I believe he's right.

If you choose to proceed with incorporating donations into the LP system, Doc, make sure there's a hard limit as to where donations can move any miner on the priority list.
Don't do something bone-headed that might negatively impact the whole pool (*cough*Triplemining jackpot farming*cough*).

You wouldn't like to have 150 CPU miners appear out of the blue and ruin your LP system by setting their donation to 50%, right?
They aren't gonna get any work done anyhow and your LP system is hosed.


... I also noticed we were up to 0.5% rejected on bitcoin proofs of work. I am working on some things to improve this.
... I'm also making some other changes to improve long polling and speed up the server in general.
Thanks for taking a good care of us, Doc.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 22, 2012, 01:49:24 PM
Think about it, having high priority LP is no benefit to any individual miner, whether he donates or not; particularly if he has a low hashrate. Its a benefit to everyone in the pool if he has a high hashrate.

It is a benefit to the individual miner since you don't get paid for rejected work. 0.1% more rejects means 0.1% less income. Some miners might be happy to get 10% of their 1% donation back through 0.1% less rejected work.

But yes, fast miners having reduced rejected work is of benefit to all miners in the pool in the way that we make use of a higher percentage of their hash rate, which means lower variance for everyone. I am aware that variance is still the number one challenge for this pool.

Im sure you're thinking hard of ways to give people an incentive to donate

Yep, I have a list of ideas, this is just one of them. Nothing set in stone.

You wouldn't like to have 150 CPU miners appear out of the blue and ruin your LP system by setting their donation to 50%, right?
They aren't gonna get any work done anyhow and your LP system is hosed.

Yes, I have thought of this too. I have two options in mind.

First solution: Put miners in groups determined by their donations, arrange miners within each group by hashrate. Example: First long poll messages go to those who donate 1% or more, fastest miners first. Then long poll goes to those who donate below 1%, fastest miners first.

Second solution: Donation gives a boost to your hashrate as seen by the long poll system. It would have to be multiplied up a bit to be noticable. Example: If you don't donate, your hashrate is unmodified. If you donate 1% you get a 5% boost. If you donate 2% you get a 10% boost. So a 5 MH/s CPU miner donating 100% would still only count as 25 MH/s in the long poll priority queue.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. The goal is for the pool to be better than other pools even if you don't donate, but for the donation perks to be good enough to make it worth donating. This is a difficult balance to make and you can see many internet-based companies struggle with this sort of thing. Well, who knows, some may even donate just because they like the pool. ;)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 22, 2012, 02:22:20 PM
First solution: Put miners in groups determined by their donations, arrange miners within each group by hashrate. Example: First long poll messages go to those who donate 1% or more, fastest miners first. Then long poll goes to those who donate below 1%, fastest miners first.
Translates to:

Code:
First LP goes to the CPU drones with 99% donations.
Second LP - to the drones with 98% donations.
...
The 180-th and following LPs go to the legitimate miners with medium speeds and >1% donations.
...
The 1534-th LP goes - already late - to DeathAndTaxes who's got a crapload of horsepower at 1% donations.
...
Not what you want to see, I reckon.
That's the worst-case scenario, to be sure, but that's how algorithms should be always analyzed.
If you evaluate the best-case performance or even the expected performance, you might miss a situation where the algorithm falls flat on its face when slightly abused.


The second approach seems safer. Even though it doesn't give the big miners a huge incentive to set up donations, prioritizing them regardless is the way for the whole pool to be more efficient.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 22, 2012, 02:54:23 PM
Not what you want to see, I reckon.

No, and that's why there wouldn't be a whole bunch of groups, maybe just 2 like in the example. Just a slightly faster long poll if you donate above some small limit. The difference may not be very noticeable. But I think the trick is to make people feel that life is good even if they don't donate, but if they do donate a tiny bit then they get a little bit of VIP treatment. The disadvantage with the first approach is that a donating CPU miner gets ahead of a non-donating GPU miner.

The second approach seems safer. Even though it doesn't give the big miners a huge incentive to set up donations, prioritizing them regardless is the way for the whole pool to be more efficient.

The second approach I think is nice because by adjusting the multiplier (5 in the example) it's easy to adjust how much donations will let you move up the priority ladder. So it should be possible to find a place in between "no measurable effect" and "CPU miners slow down GPU miners".

Anyway, no worries, I have no intention of turning this into anything similar to internet games the makers call "free to play" and the players call "pay to win". I'm just trying to think of some ways to make a little money in the long run, or at least stop losing money. But first, of course, I need to make an actual donation system. :P


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Kain on January 22, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
Even without any incentive, this pool is profitable to the point where I'd willingly donate 20%, maybe more.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Proofer on January 22, 2012, 06:31:44 PM
I'm also making some other changes to improve long polling and speed up the server in general. Hopefully there will be a new version of the pool back end sometime in the next few days.

Possibly old news, but I'm seeing quite a few "not providing work fast enough" messages from cgminer.  In this instance "quite a few" means an average of one per eleven minutes over a 14-hour period, but they're bunched such that most of them were in the last couple of hours during that period.  I had a similar problem in a session early yesterday.

Code:
[2012-01-21 22:09:47] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-21 22:13:07] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-21 23:45:17] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 00:48:35] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 01:08:24] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 01:20:07] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 01:32:20] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 02:14:14] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 03:03:38] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 03:21:46] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 04:25:48] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 05:30:33] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 07:15:21] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 07:37:20] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 08:45:17] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:09:15] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:28:18] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:28:46] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:37:39] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:39:33] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:39:47] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:40:02] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:40:17] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:40:25] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:40:30] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:53:28] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:53:33] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:54:24] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:54:43] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:55:21] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:55:26] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:56:36] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:57:07] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:57:11] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:57:21] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:57:43] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:58:07] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:58:11] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:58:28] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:58:50] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:59:14] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:59:21] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 09:59:38] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:00:00] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:00:20] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:00:28] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:00:43] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:01:19] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:01:31] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:01:53] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:02:08] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:02:13] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:02:21] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:02:36] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:03:12] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:03:23] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:03:46] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:04:02] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:04:06] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:04:14] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:04:29] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:05:05] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:05:16] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:05:39] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:05:55] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:05:59] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:06:07] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:06:22] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:06:58] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:07:09] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:07:32] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:07:52] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:08:00] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:08:15] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:08:51] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:09:02] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough
[2012-01-22 10:09:53] Pool 1 not providing work fast enough


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 22, 2012, 06:38:09 PM
Update your cgminer Proofer.
There was some minor glitch in the code resulting in the "Pool not providing work fast enough" condition being falsely triggered right after having received an LP message.
I believe Conman mentioned this specific glitch lately in cgminer thread.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 22, 2012, 10:48:18 PM
no fpgas on my end yet, was making a theoretical post there. solar is pulling about 1 kW Dr. Haribo, for the inverter from an old generator, enough batteries (refurbished forklift batteries) to run a day and a half no grid, and a home built 1kW solar grid made with cells sold on ebay and bussed together myself, cost me about 2k. This setup runs my 4890 for a day and a half when sun not shining. I plan on using the 4890 rig as my fpga host, and I think the company has  their own software to connect to pools of choice.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: rjk on January 22, 2012, 11:17:41 PM
no fpgas on my end yet, was making a theoretical post there. solar is pulling about 1 kW Dr. Haribo, for the inverter from an old generator, enough batteries (refurbished forklift batteries) to run a day and a half no grid, and a home built 1kW solar grid made with cells sold on ebay and bussed together myself, cost me about 2k. This setup runs my 4890 for a day and a half when sun not shining. I plan on using the 4890 rig as my fpga host, and I think the company has  their own software to connect to pools of choice.
I might note that the 4890 is horribly inefficent, so you might be better off just removing it to save a few watts.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 22, 2012, 11:35:05 PM
true, but off of solar power, It makes no real difference, and every little hash helps! (I occasionally have the card do other parallel compute tasks when needed)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 24, 2012, 02:01:26 AM
Another loooong block. Sad face :(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 24, 2012, 08:24:12 AM
Argh! Did someone hook up 1000 computers this morning? The server can't keep up with all the getwork requests and we are getting very high reject ratio now. :(

In a meeting at work, difficult to do much right now.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 24, 2012, 08:49:06 AM
And after I wrote that the load kept increasing. At this point the server is almost completely unresponsive. Not sure if it is a DoS-attack or if a botnet is trying to mine here. But the current server can't handle either.

Sorry guys, not much I can do at this moment.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 24, 2012, 08:51:01 AM
While the website is down, the backend still seems to work. Im not seeing any real problems?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on January 24, 2012, 10:01:44 AM
While the website is down, the backend still seems to work. Im not seeing any real problems?

Looks like it just packed it in a couple mins ago for me. can't make contact.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on January 24, 2012, 10:08:13 AM
and its back...  :D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 24, 2012, 10:14:09 AM
Hmm I don't get how you can mine at all? I can't even type a command in the shell at this point.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on January 24, 2012, 10:26:48 AM
Hmm I don't get how you can mine at all? I can't even type a command in the shell at this point.


it died again shortly after.  :'(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 24, 2012, 10:41:24 AM
ozcoin is down too. Could it be a DDoS attack? most other big pools appear to be working though.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on January 24, 2012, 12:23:13 PM
just noticed the pool and the website are back now.  :D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Defkin on January 24, 2012, 12:26:54 PM
it's the coin, it just does not want to be mined :P


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 24, 2012, 12:51:42 PM
it's the coin, it just does not want to be mined :P
Imma clobber it with me pick-axe until it surrenders and excavates like any well-behaved coin.
93,53% is just terrible... guess we're paying for that incredible New Year's mining spree.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 24, 2012, 01:24:18 PM
it's the coin, it just does not want to be mined :P
Imma clobber it with me pick-axe until it surrenders and excavates like any well-behaved coin.
93,53% is just terrible... guess we're paying for that incredible New Year's mining spree.

Yeah, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Now the terrible long block, and server getting overloaded. :(

At least it's running well again now.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 24, 2012, 02:39:44 PM
Just curious, what was the problem?


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 24, 2012, 04:42:32 PM
Man, that sh!t had to happen when i had no backup pools configured :-X ::)
Now p2pool will run all the time as backup pool.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 24, 2012, 05:25:01 PM
Just curious, what was the problem?

The pool back end was taking a lot more requests than usual. For a while it was eating 10 times as much CPU as it normally does. Memory usage was on the rise. Miners couldn't get work fast enough, and we could see much more rejected proofs of work than normal. But it was still sluggishly moving along. After a while of this the load suddenly shot through the roof and the server was almost completely dead.

I guess it's time to invest in a bigger server.

Good to see we got 2 BTC blocks. Well deserved with that long block and all the trouble today.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 24, 2012, 05:41:03 PM
Good to see we got 2 BTC blocks. Well deserved with that long block and all the trouble today.
*playing a hillbilly*
Yeah, I told yous I'd be pounding that block with my pickaxe. I scared it away from its hiding place allowing mqpickens to score a kill.
 ;D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 24, 2012, 07:34:19 PM
*playing a hillbilly*
Yeah, I told yous I'd be pounding that block with my pickaxe. I scared it away from its hiding place allowing mqpickens to score a kill.
 ;D

Hehe :) Reminds me of the time I said I was going to enable the fast block cheat, and just a moment later we built a block. :P


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 24, 2012, 08:35:11 PM
theres a fast block cheat? :o


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 24, 2012, 08:44:45 PM
Don't talk, Dragon, lest you scare them away. Be ready to grab them blocks while I scare them out of their lairs and drive them your way!
Come on, at least one block more today... ;D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 24, 2012, 09:09:42 PM
Aye aye capitan Jake!  ;D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Kain on January 24, 2012, 09:29:12 PM
Any way I can donate my NMC to the pool?
I have no use for them :P


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 25, 2012, 02:09:01 AM
I want to donate to the pool for better server. Who is with me? Who will pledge coin to this great pool so we can make 200 Ghash/s before the end of next year? I have 5 pledged now.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Defkin on January 25, 2012, 03:14:15 AM
not me I haven't made my first coin here yet.....:D

I started on this pool by mining that very long coin the other day and accidentally broke the server....shhh don't tell anyone.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 25, 2012, 03:39:06 AM
I pledge a coin or two if we area able to get to 200GHash/s with the same insanely low stale rate.
All in all, I'd rather mine on a small-to-medium sized pool than a 500GHash/s behemoth, though. For network decentralization's sake.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 25, 2012, 03:39:31 AM
lulz


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 25, 2012, 05:36:32 AM
*continuing the hillbilly act*
Damn, them blocks have gone into hiding or just vacated our hunting spot.
:spits, scratches balls:
I'm winded. Could grab a cold beer too. Tiring this block hunting, that's what it is.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 25, 2012, 06:12:18 AM
still better mining here than at some of dem der stuffier high class type class type pools i rekon jake. we just gunn has to tighten our belts and clamp down on dem pickaxes so D&T can kechem!

(Most hillbilly I could muster in one night)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 25, 2012, 06:22:14 AM
Wow, you're doing a much better job at it than I have been :D


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 25, 2012, 06:24:32 AM
Hey doc. Do we support P2SH?

http://blockchain.info/P2SH

And @ Jake, I'm a garbage man in Nebraska, you have no idea the people I meet buddy.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 25, 2012, 12:41:53 PM
I will get a better server and set up a donation system. I think we are large enough now that donations can at least pay part of the server costs.

Hey doc. Do we support P2SH?

http://blockchain.info/P2SH

To be honest I haven't had time to read up on P2SH yet. But I will do so ASAP.

Also, I don't like using other people's hash power to do something they don't like. So if you have an opinion on P2SH please let's hear it. :)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: sturle on January 25, 2012, 08:18:35 PM
Hey doc. Do we support P2SH?

http://blockchain.info/P2SH
To be honest I haven't had time to read up on P2SH yet. But I will do so ASAP.
I'll move my 2 Ghash/s from solo mining to BitMinter if you start supporting BIP 16!


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 25, 2012, 08:34:30 PM
After somber study, I believe I would go with  BIP 16 (for P2SH) If I was mining solo. As I have no plans of leaving this pool, It would rest on the pools shoulders, and ultimately what Doc would decide. Jr seems to gung-ho to get his BIP 17 out there, and Gavin just wants to make it work with BIP 16. They both believe their way is best. I would suggest maybe archiving a backup copy of the current bitcoin software and running that, as securely as possible to maintain wallet and chain integrity until more research and testing can be done on testnet with both implementations


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 25, 2012, 09:05:15 PM
Lotsa Namecoin blocks today...wierd


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 26, 2012, 12:01:52 AM
Also, I don't like using other people's hash power to do something they don't like. So if you have an opinion on P2SH please let's hear it. :)

Good to hear the pool operator wants to know what the miners think. I suspect thats more than what Luke did before casting his (miners') vote(s).

That said, I have no real opinion on the subject. I got no clue what its about. Maybe if someone could give me an executive summary I might form an opinion, but absent that, my second instinct is to trust Gavin above Luke.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 26, 2012, 12:39:02 AM
I've been reading up on this now. Here are some threads I looked through:

BIP 16: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016
BIP 17: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0017

Gavin Andresen (Lead Core Bitcoin Developer) trying to explain the matter in layman's terms: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61125.0

Luke Jr (Eligius Pool Operator) explaining his side: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58579.0

Discussion about BIP 17, Luke Jr's suggestion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60433.0

I think they were right to drop OP_EVAL (BIP 12) for being too risky (potential security problems). I also think bitcoin needs the increased security, escrow and other fancy stuff that comes with multisig transactions.

So, BIP 16, BIP 17, or postpone? Not sure yet.

It's very difficult to understand the different results we get from choosing BIP 16 or BIP 17. It's very technical. My pool software creates its own generate transaction, so I have at least looked at bitcoin transactions a little bit before. It seems totally confusing to me. I can only imagine how it looks to the average miner. I think only people who have been working on core bitcoin code can actually understand the issues well.

About voting with hash power, I think that can be the right way to do such changes, but pools complicate that a bit. It's a bit late now, but if there will be more such voting in the future, then perhaps it would be an idea to implement some sort of voting inside BitMinter. Say you vote on the website and the pool creates votes in the blocks we make to match how much hash power in our pool voted for the one or other option. The choices in this case would be "BIP16", "BIP17" or "blank". This would allow each miner to use their hash power the way they want.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 26, 2012, 12:43:49 AM
The choices in this case would be "BIP16", "BIP17" or "blank".

Actually there should also be "no vote". "Blank" meaning "I want the pool to create blank votes", and "no vote" meaning "I don't care, let the other miners decide".


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 26, 2012, 12:51:00 AM
There ye go P4:
BIP12 (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0012) (op_eval), BIP16 (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0016) (op_p2sh) and  BIP17 (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0017) (op_chv) are different implementations serving the same purpose of introducing multi-signature transactions at protocol level. To the end-user there's no real difference between them. BIP12 is now dead due to a fatal flaw having been discovered so the choice is between BIP16 and BIP17.
According to Maged (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60950.msg711681#msg711681), even most of the devs don't care which one eventually gets implemented.

With BIP16, transactions initiated by you look like normal transactions to the network while transactions sent to you require additional work, thus will be a tad slower until everyone upgrades their bitcoind to support them and more expensive (slightly higher fees). BIP17 does things the other way around.

Old clients won't confirm BIP16 transactions but will confirm BIP17 transactions and treat them as valid even though they don't actually parse them correctly.

BIP12 was being worked on since October. In December, a flaw was found making the transaction language (Script) turing-complete thus making it impossible to be statically analyzed. Some of the BIP12 code was recycled into BIP16. Lately, Luke fervently advocated his implementaion, now specified as BIP17 as being more elegant. Not "far superior", mind you, just "more elegant".

Whichever option eventually wins, I have full confidence in the devs having done the due diligence and scrutinized the code for flaws as best they can.

I suggest you don't believe the recently popular n00btalk deprecating the BIPs as rushed, unverified code being shoved down the miners' throats.

DISCLAIMER: This post has been written according to my best knowledge. I can't guarantee, however, that it is absolutely correct.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Defkin on January 26, 2012, 02:00:11 AM
One other item was that the trojan makers have started to make some effort towards BTC. While no one is suggesting that the BTC code itself is under threat everyone who has a wallet on an unsecured system is and it is only going to get worse. I know I cannot secure a windows PC, worse those with less computer skills are going to think they are secure because norton told them so. I wouldn't even know where to start with a mobile OS.

So 3 options really. Go with one of the two upgrade options that of us voting 99% of us can not technically evaluate anyhow. And correct me if I am wrong the Devs already voted on the BIP16 although it was not unanimous so it spilled over to us?

Or delay implementation and run the risk of the public losing confidence in BTC if the hackers manage to steal enough coin and this is going to become more likely as the more of less computer savvy join BTC.

This is my vote and reasoning behind it.

1. I am not qualified to make an informed vote but the mechanics mean I must cast a vote anyhow.
2. Having the public lose confidence in a currency is far from good no mater how it happens - delay is out.
3. It appears the jack jr lost the dev team vote so sent it to the miners turning the decision into a raffle rather than and informed choice.

I guess that means I vote for BIP 16........

 
 


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Turbor on January 26, 2012, 05:41:47 AM
I support Gavin. He's the leader we should follow !


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: teflone on January 26, 2012, 06:46:03 AM
I support Gavin. He's the leader we should follow !

This...


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 26, 2012, 09:26:52 AM
So 3 options really. Go with one of the two upgrade options that of us voting 99% of us can not technically evaluate anyhow. And correct me if I am wrong the Devs already voted on the BIP16 although it was not unanimous so it spilled over to us?
I guess that means I vote for BIP 16........

Let straight this misconception out:
There is no "vote" in the sense of a democratic vote with the miners telling the devs which way to go. It's the same definition of vote as anything being done by the block chain: any change with >50% support gets accepted and merged into the main block chain.
Everyone is expected to go with BIP16 since that code has been compiled into the most recent bitcoind.
The "vote" means just that the devs are waiting to check whether or not over 50% of the total hash power has been upgraded with BIP16 support and therefore BIP16 is alive or do they need to wait longer.

Tycho (http://deepbit.net/) will decide what happens anyway, thanks to the brain-dead sheep crowding at his pool. That's the price ultimately paid for the centralization that pools bring.
If anyone wants to sanitize the situation and they happen to have a friend mining for a giant pool, please whack them across the head until they change to a small pool, perhaps even this one.
P2pool would be even better as it allows (and requires) each miner to run his own bitcoind.

Luke raised one hell of a row and seriously undermined the trust in the dev team with his irresponsible actions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58579.0):
2 questions about this P2SH thing (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60950.0)
How to vote for/against p2sh? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60937.0)
Miners don't even know they can vote on P2SH (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60829.0)


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: sturle on January 26, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
About voting with hash power, I think that can be the right way to do such changes, but pools complicate that a bit. It's a bit late now, but if there will be more such voting in the future, then perhaps it would be an idea to implement some sort of voting inside BitMinter. Say you vote on the website and the pool creates votes in the blocks we make to match how much hash power in our pool voted for the one or other option. The choices in this case would be "BIP16", "BIP17" or "blank". This would allow each miner to use their hash power the way they want.
I think calling this a "vote" is misleading.  To cite BIP 16:
Quote
To gracefully upgrade and ensure no long-lasting block-chain split occurs, more than 50% of miners must support full validation of the new transaction type and must switch from the old validation rules to the new rules at the same time.

To judge whether or not more than 50% of hashing power supports this BIP, miners are asked to upgrade their software and put the string "/P2SH/" in the input of the coinbase transaction for blocks that they create.
Never ever put "/P2SH/" in the coinbase to state an opinion unless you actually have upgraded bitcoind to validate P2SH transactions as specified in the BIP, or there will be a miscount with consequences as described.  For BIP 17 this is even more important, because BIP 17 type transactions can be stolen by anyone until more than 50% of the hashing power correctly validates the transactions.  If e.g. Deepbit choose to "vote" for BIP 17 without actually validating the transactions, any BIP 17 type transactions can be stolen before they reach the block chain.  (This has been demonstrated on the testnet, where people have fun stealing luke-jr's test transactions.)

IMHO BIP 16 is the way to go.  BIP 17 has support from one developer while the rest support BIP 16.  BIP 17 will probably never gain the support it needs, and only delay the process of getting multisignature transactions into Bitcoin.  Multisignature transactions are important for security reasons.  Especially for larger companies where large transactions needs to be signed by at least two persons.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 26, 2012, 01:15:00 PM
About voting with hash power, I think that can be the right way to do such changes, but pools complicate that a bit. It's a bit late now, but if there will be more such voting in the future, then perhaps it would be an idea to implement some sort of voting inside BitMinter. Say you vote on the website and the pool creates votes in the blocks we make to match how much hash power in our pool voted for the one or other option. The choices in this case would be "BIP16", "BIP17" or "blank". This would allow each miner to use their hash power the way they want.
I think calling this a "vote" is misleading.  To cite BIP 16:
Quote
To gracefully upgrade and ensure no long-lasting block-chain split occurs, more than 50% of miners must support full validation of the new transaction type and must switch from the old validation rules to the new rules at the same time.

To judge whether or not more than 50% of hashing power supports this BIP, miners are asked to upgrade their software and put the string "/P2SH/" in the input of the coinbase transaction for blocks that they create.

Never ever put "/P2SH/" in the coinbase to state an opinion unless you actually have upgraded bitcoind to validate P2SH transactions as specified in the BIP, or there will be a miscount with consequences as described.  For BIP 17 this is even more important, because BIP 17 type transactions can be stolen by anyone until more than 50% of the hashing power correctly validates the transactions.  If e.g. Deepbit choose to "vote" for BIP 17 without actually validating the transactions, any BIP 17 type transactions can be stolen before they reach the block chain.  (This has been demonstrated on the testnet, where people have fun stealing luke-jr's test transactions.)

That is a good point.  Miners (and more directly pool operators) VOTE by their ACTIONS.  Upgrading to p2sh capable bitoind is the actual "vote".  Now that vote is silent/hidden from the rest of the network so putting text code into the coinbase is merelying indicating how the pool has ALREADY voted.

If enough people changed coinbase text without updating their bitcoind the results would be disastrous.

And yes this means miner's don't get a direct vote (excpet solo & p2pool miners) ALTHOUGH if pools made their position clear miners do have the choice to CHANGE pools (indirect voting).


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 26, 2012, 04:06:01 PM
For BIP 17 this is even more important, because BIP 17 type transactions can be stolen by anyone until more than 50% of the hashing power correctly validates the transactions.  If e.g. Deepbit choose to "vote" for BIP 17 without actually validating the transactions, any BIP 17 type transactions can be stolen before they reach the block chain.  (This has been demonstrated on the testnet, where people have fun stealing luke-jr's test transactions.)

This is a pretty scary thing with BIP 17.

Miners (and more directly pool operators) VOTE by their ACTIONS.  Upgrading to p2sh capable bitoind is the actual "vote".

For pools using "getwork" to create blocks this is true. Since BitMinter uses "getmemorypool" (which means it creates the generation transaction itself) to create blocks, the upgrade to a bitcoind version supporting certain features and putting /P2SH/ or similar in the generation transactions are two separate things. I just have to remember to do both. ;)

Looks like pretty strong support for BIP 16 in this pool so far.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 26, 2012, 07:03:15 PM
I was cleaning up the Bitcoin wiki pool comparison page and I discovered something about Bitminter.

Bitminter is the largest merged mining pool which has no fee and shares transaction fees.

Basically Bitminter is the largest "true 0% cost" pool. :)

Pools which don't pay transaction fees cost miners ~0.2%.
Pools which don't merge mine costs miners ~1.5%.
Pools which charge a high fee costs miners 3% to 10%.
Pools which don't protect miners from hoppers costs miner ~10% to ~20% or more.

Bitminter - the "true zero cost solution".  That being said I hope Bitminter does support donations in the future.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: jake262144 on January 26, 2012, 08:22:51 PM
Precisely why I hooked a rig with this pool.
I'm doing an extended revenue comparison of BitMinter and p2pool, I'll share my findings in a month or two.
My days of mining at Eligius are officially over. A bloody shame for it's an awesome SMPPS poisoned apple pool and I'm still in love with the pure-address TNO approach.

EDIT:: there also appears to have been some morally dubious activity (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.msg714774#msg714774) going on at ABCPool concerning Goat's project (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60413.0). Ceased due to technical issues more than anything else.
I call that highly disconcerting.
Don't let greed cloud your judgment, pool ops  >:(


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: P4man on January 26, 2012, 08:27:54 PM
Id gladly sacrifice transaction fees or even merged mining fees in return for one feature I think is missing still. Eclipse has SMS notification for hash rate (and even found blocks), which is really cool. Im not sure how he does it and pays for it, it cant be free to send a dozen SMS messages across the globe for any miner, but its neat. Paypal payout is also something that could appeal particularly to newbies, even if a fat fee is taken. That fee could also form a small source of revenue.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 26, 2012, 08:59:13 PM
Id gladly sacrifice transaction fees or even merged mining fees in return for one feature I think is missing still. Eclipse has SMS notification for hash rate (and even found blocks), which is really cool. Im not sure how he does it and pays for it, it cant be free to send a dozen SMS messages across the globe for any miner, but its neat. Paypal payout is also something that could appeal particularly to newbies, even if a fat fee is taken. That fee could also form a small source of revenue.

I assume he is just paying it out of fees collected.  SMS API are pretty cheap. 

Here is just one example (couple dozen companies offer same stuff)
http://www.cdyne.com/products/sms-notify.aspx

1 cent per message.  (USD cents not Bitcents. :) )


Title: Re: [90 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Kain on January 27, 2012, 06:08:39 PM
Oh god I solved two blocks :'D
I feel useful.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: DrHaribo on January 27, 2012, 07:04:34 PM
Good news. New server is ready. Moving will cause a little downtime though. It's probably best to schedule this ahead of time, so people can set a backup pool or manually move to another pool during the downtime. Saturday in a week might be good?

Also, there seems to be strong support for BIP 16, so I will put those votes in. Just going to test new bitcoind + the vote change + other changes in new mining pool software. But coming soon...

Bitminter is the largest merged mining pool which has no fee and shares transaction fees.

Yay! Good points, I updated the subject and contents of the original post a bit, maybe it helps attract more miners.

Oh god I solved two blocks :'D

Nicely done, sir. :)

Id gladly sacrifice transaction fees or even merged mining fees in return for one feature I think is missing still. Eclipse has SMS notification for hash rate (and even found blocks), which is really cool. Im not sure how he does it and pays for it, it cant be free to send a dozen SMS messages across the globe for any miner, but its neat. Paypal payout is also something that could appeal particularly to newbies, even if a fat fee is taken. That fee could also form a small source of revenue.

Hmm. SMS notifications. Paypal payout. Added to my list. ;)

I'm doing an extended revenue comparison of BitMinter and p2pool, I'll share my findings in a month or two.

It's a race! Will their 0.5% fee or their bonuses decide? Or maybe that old hairy monster called Variance? :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on January 27, 2012, 07:47:47 PM
I regret to say I have lost all confidence in ABCPool. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.msg716496#msg716496)
If ABCPool had been pool hopping all the time, it's safe to presume that the ops made a shitload of bitcoins behind the scenes. Damned greed.
Of course, if there were no proportional idiots pools in the first place, none of that shit would be possible.


Title: Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! ***
Post by: Fefox on January 27, 2012, 09:27:42 PM
Great to hear about the new server, Im ready anytime for the cut-over!  ;D


I like the idea of the SMS notifications, even tho I don't have a phone...
I could see a Paypal payout option attracting a few more miners as well..


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 27, 2012, 11:19:27 PM
Great to hear about the new server, Im ready anytime for the cut-over!  ;D


I like the idea of the SMS notifications, even tho I don't have a phone...
I could see a Paypal payout option attracting a few more miners as well..


I think Paypal might be a very good fit for this pool.  The java app makes trying mining very easy and if the user can right away cash it might draw more causal users.

casual miner 1: "Look man you can get paid to use your .... "
casual miner 2: "Save it.  I don't believe in that Bitcoin scam"
casual miner 1: "Well I just got paid in dollars"
casual miner 2: "Wait where?  I want moneyz too".

:)

I really think BitMinter could generate revenue from "value added" services:
  • Paypal cost 2.9% but to causal miner they might be willing to pay a 1% markup for "instant cash".
  • SMS messages only cost a penny but miners might be willing to pay 500% of that.
  • "Instant payments (no 120 block delay) and invalid block "insurance" doesn't cost much (invalid blocks make up about 0.2% of pools generation) but it has high perceived value by some.  No doubt some miner would check yes for a 1% fee.
  • Maybe someday add a PPS option.  Hell it could be the first "member contributed" PPS funds (another BitMinter first).  You optionally deposit BTC to a fund to payout negative PPS swings.  Essentially you are taking the "other side" of the PPS bet (you gain on short blocks and lose on long blocks).  In the end it evens out except you collect the fee. Say Bitminter collects a 4% fee for PPS (60% less than Deepbit).  They pool keeps 1% and pays out the other 3% to the PPS funds members.
  • Maybe a "VIP" plan.  8% fee.  Gets you PPS, FREE paypal cashouts, instant payments (no 120 block delay), invalid block insurance, unlimited SMS notifications, and a "VIP" member forum badge.

I don't want to speak for the pool operator but I could see a high speed zero fee pool which also has paid value added services being attractive.  People feel better about "spending money" than they do about getting hit w/ some mandatory fees.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 27, 2012, 11:34:01 PM
I concur D&T


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 28, 2012, 12:37:07 AM
casual miner 1: "Look man you can get paid to use your .... "
casual miner 2: "Save it.  I don't believe in that Bitcoin scam"
casual miner 1: "Well I just got paid in dollars"
casual miner 2: "Wait where?  I want moneyz too".

Hehe, funny but very true. It's a good point. I should add features like that to better leverage the existing newbie-friendly features of the pool.

I really think BitMinter could generate revenue from "value added" services:

If you are not deepbit it may be the only way to make a profit.

I was planning to add donation perks that activate depending on how high you set your donation percentage.

Paypal cost 2.9% but to causal miner they might be willing to pay a 1% markup for "instant cash".

1% isn't much when you see how the bitcoin markets constantly fluctuate. The price for a bitcoin is very unstable, and if I pay out in dollars then I'm taking a considerable risk. Best bet is probably to look at how volatile the markets have been and try to find some semi-safe markup. Two possible places to collect: require donation to activate paypal payout + use the latest market exchange rate minus a percentage.

SMS messages only cost a penny but miners might be willing to pay 500% of that.

I don't think miners would want to pay $5 per SMS. But probably much more than the price I'd have to pay to send one.

This is probably best done not by donation but a feature you activate and it works as long as it can subtract the necessary sum from your balance each time a message is triggered. With a selectable limit for max messages per day.

"Instant payments (no 120 block delay) and payment even in invalid blocks really doesn't cost much (invalid blocks make up about 0.2% of pools generation) but some would be willing to pay 1% for that.

Instant payment and paying invalid blocks is really the same feature. I was planning to activate that at perhaps 3% donation. Donate enough BTC and you get it on BTC blocks. Donate enough NMC and it works on NMC blocks.

Maybe someday add a PPS option.  Hell it could be the first "member contributed" PPS funds.  You optionally deposit BTC to a fund to payout negative PPS swings.  Essentially you are taking the "other side" of the PPS bet.  The good news is you have the house advantage (PPS fee).  Say Bitminter collects a 4% fee for PPS (60% less than Deepbit).  They pool keeps 1% and pays out the other 3% to the PPS funds members.

I sometimes consider adding PPS at some high donation percentage. Maybe 7%. But PPS is very risky. Variance can cause big losses. And block withholding attacks are entirely free for the attacker if he gets paid through PPS.

Pooling PPS funds sounds a bit like SMPPS? Something like that might be doable. Block withholding could empty the pooled funds though.

Maybe a "VIP" plan.  8% fee.  Gets you PPS, paypal cashouts, instant payments (no 120 block delay), and SMS notification.

Interesting. Maybe instead of different perks activating at different donation levels, you would "buy" perks with your donations. Each perk would require X percent donation, and you can freely pick the ones you prefer. And then there is the VIP package that gives you all features and costs less in donation than all the individual features added together.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 28, 2012, 01:06:27 AM
What if advertising space was offered the homepage? Where the start your engine banner is, add a pip or two so that it scrolls over legit adverts. It would be a little extra in the wallet at the end of the month.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 28, 2012, 03:12:11 AM
What if advertising space was offered the homepage? Where the start your engine banner is, add a pip or two so that it scrolls over legit adverts. It would be a little extra in the wallet at the end of the month.

If it was limited to bitcoin only services that wouldn't be such a bad idea.  Likely could do the same thing in the Bitminter miner too.  Hell I would advertise my "coming soon" product if I could ever get this graphical design work wrapped up.  Targeted ads are more valuable which means less are needed for the same amount of revenue.  A bitcoin merchant knows a miner has Bitcoin, bitcoins that could potentially be spent.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 28, 2012, 03:14:12 AM
What if advertising space was offered the homepage? Where the start your engine banner is, add a pip or two so that it scrolls over legit adverts. It would be a little extra in the wallet at the end of the month.

If it was limited to bitcoin only services that wouldn't be such a bad idea.  Likely could do the same thing in the Bitminter miner too.  Hell I would advertise my "coming soon" product if I could ever get this graphical design work wrapped up.  Targeted ads are more valuable which means less are needed for the same amount of revenue.  A bitcoin merchant knows a miner has Bitcoin, bitcoins that could potentially be spent.

My thinking precisely


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 28, 2012, 04:47:38 AM
Updating server? No Hashes boss!


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 28, 2012, 08:19:49 AM
Hmm, server went down, not sure why yet. On its way back up now but something is slooooow. I will be happy after getting over to the new server.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 28, 2012, 08:32:01 AM
Mining is up. Was giving out work very slowly for a bit, but seems to be stable now.

Update: It was a dead disk on the server causing the problems. Then after things were back up the load was rather high, and still is. Still, the server seems to be coping with higher than normal load and work looks to be coming out to miners fast. Very sorry about this. Not the best of mornings.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 28, 2012, 09:45:21 AM
1% isn't much when you see how the bitcoin markets constantly fluctuate. The price for a bitcoin is very unstable, and if I pay out in dollars then I'm taking a considerable risk. Best bet is probably to look at how volatile the markets have been and try to find some semi-safe markup. Two possible places to collect: require donation to activate paypal payout + use the latest market exchange rate minus a percentage.

FYI, eclipse pool charges 7.5% for paypal payouts.

As for volatility; you could protect yourself by selling the coins before handing out the paypal dollars. Youd give a guestimate how much the miner would get in dollar, but you only know for sure after you sold the bitcoins on mtgox. Since we are talking very small amounts here in all likelihood (no newbie is going to accumulate 100BTC from mining and have them paid with god knows what fee), the estimate shouldnt be far from the actual value.

I wouldnt pair this to donations though. This ought to be a revenue stream for you by itself, it doesnt make sense to limit your potential profit that way. Moreover, someone could just turn on donations when he wants to be paid out (and yeah, you could avoid that by only allowing blocks to be paid out when donations where set, but it would seem a lot of pointless work).

BTW, once you have this working, consider expanding the service to payout any bitcoins. So allow people to send BTCs to their bitminter account and sell them through paypal. Though you will want to look in to potential legal ramifications, Im not sure of those. If its doable, it would be a good way to make money and get traffic to your site.

Quote
I don't think miners would want to pay $5 per SMS. But probably much more than the price I'd have to pay to send one.

This is probably best done not by donation but a feature you activate and it works as long as it can subtract the necessary sum from your balance each time a message is triggered. With a selectable limit for max messages per day.

Id do it slightly differently. I wouldnt make it appear as if the miner is paying for his sms messages himself from a savings account, even though to some extend, he obviously will. Enable it for anyone who donates x%, and do keep track of how many SMS he gets and how much the donation brings in, but give everyone some credit, so that even a smallish miner who activates the option gets a message 20 minutes later if a block is solved; even if he hasnt accumulated enough donations yet to "pay for it". Otherwise it may seem as if he enabled an option that costs him money and he is not getting anything for it.

Set an absolute limit for everyone (no point in sending out dozens of sms to anyone) and after 24 or 48 hours start comparing donations with costs and calculate a max number of daily SMS messages the miner is entitled to depending on his hash rate.
Quote
Instant payment and paying invalid blocks is really the same feature. I was planning to activate that at perhaps 3% donation. Donate enough BTC and you get it on BTC blocks. Donate enough NMC and it works on NMC blocks.

Again, I would do this differently. Many newbies and non newbies havent got a clue what to do with their namecoins. Use that to your advantage. One option could be donating NMCs to the pool. Im pretty sure that would be popular. I got about 100NMC in my bitminter account now, their yours once I have the option to donate them.I dont think Im alone here.

Quote
Interesting. Maybe instead of different perks activating at different donation levels, you would "buy" perks with your donations. Each perk would require X percent donation, and you can freely pick the ones you prefer. And then there is the VIP package that gives you all features and costs less in donation than all the individual features added together.

K.I.S.S. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50azfP_GayI)

Id offer no more than 2 or 3 donation levels max. One of them being "donate namecoins".




Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 29, 2012, 02:18:04 AM
Anyone else have "weird" stats since the reboot when it comes to namecoin?

My namecoin shares are a tiny fraction of my bitcoin shares.  They aren't being rejected there just aren't any ???


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 29, 2012, 05:16:36 AM
Anyone else have "weird" stats since the reboot when it comes to namecoin?

My namecoin shares are a tiny fraction of my bitcoin shares.  They aren't being rejected there just aren't any ???

everything looks a-ok on my miners namecoin wise


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 29, 2012, 05:23:48 AM
Yeah the "issue" went away.  Not sure what that was.  For the last round BTC & NMC were the same.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 29, 2012, 09:31:30 AM
Whatever it was, it hasnt gone away. Reject rates are still through the roof. I guess that new server cant come soon enough.
https://bitminter.com/livestats/big


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 29, 2012, 09:38:45 AM
Strange ???


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 29, 2012, 10:12:42 AM
High load causing high stales this morning. Please be careful with connecting too many CPU workers. It will be smoother after switching to the new server.

ZodiacDragon84 and DeathAndTaxes, I think those are some very good ideas about advertisements. I don't like ads much, but as long as bitcoin is small I think this could be very interesting for both audience and advertisers. I may not have time to create an automated system for some time, but if someone wants to advertise just contact me and it can be done manually.

P4man, lots of good ideas there. All noted.

Yeah the "issue" went away.  Not sure what that was.  For the last round BTC & NMC were the same.

BTC and NMC rounds are not always the same, starting at the same point in time. Sometimes a lone NMC block is created and the current BTC round is longer than the NMC round. It can be confusing when looking at the worker stats.

Id offer no more than 2 or 3 donation levels max. One of them being "donate namecoins".

Yeah, that song is right. ;) There's a balance to strike though between so complex it's confusing and so simple it loses its flexibility. I think just 2-3 levels is too simple. On the other hand, multiple coin types add to complexity, maybe the perks can require minimum donations of both BTC and NMC to activate.

I think http://www.humblebundle.com/ (http://www.humblebundle.com/) does it well. Unfortunately there's no bundle on sale as I write this so you can't play with the payment options right now.

What I'm thinking so far: A new page under "my account" -> "donations and perks" working as follows.

Perks are listed saying what they do and what they cost. There's a button to toggle them on/off. The "VIP" perk turns everything else on in addition to itself.

Donations are listed by cause. There's a + button to add more causes to donate to ("block bonuses", "bitcoin core developers", "bitcoin miners union", and so on). One cause is always listed, the bitminter main donations that give you perks, cover the expenses of running the service, and can maybe one day help me break even. ;)

For each cause there are separate settings for each coin type (BTC, NMC). You have a box where you can type the percentage to donate and a slider you can drag if you prefer that instead. - and + buttons could go down and up 0.5%. Perhaps also a "max" button to automatically set the value+slider to the rest of your income of that coin type (that you haven't already set to donate to a different cause). Also a button to remove the cause from your list.

Turning on perks will make the BitMinter cause adjust up its value and sliders to cover the price of that perk if the setting isn't already high enough. Not sure if turning perks off should auto-adjust down. Maybe adjust down if the donation was set to exactly cover the perks. Also need to auto-disable perks if the donation is manually adjusted too low.

Perks could require X percent donation on one coin type or all. To keep it simple maybe a "pay unconfirmed blocks immediately" perk should require donations on all types and work on all types. Having one for each coin type may be more screen clutter and complexity than it is worth? At least if there are many perks and all are duplicated for each coin type. May have to think of something smart to make everyone happy there.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on January 29, 2012, 11:17:32 AM
Doc, I'm loving that perk purchase page idea.
Are you going to change the layout a bit to resemble Fallout's interface? ;D

Those good-old days of 2D games are never coming back :tries to hold back tears, to no great success:


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 29, 2012, 12:19:04 PM
Doc, you rock.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 29, 2012, 02:32:02 PM
Slow miners totally crashed the server. Getting things up again now. Please don't run more than a handful of CPU miners until we get moved over on the new server.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 29, 2012, 02:44:47 PM
Pool is down...

Edit: And up  :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 29, 2012, 03:30:08 PM
And we have a new king of the kill
1   Bossland   18,077 (MH)

Nice!


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 29, 2012, 04:01:46 PM
Just restarted the back end with a new version, with better long polling (priority for faster miners, and some tweaks), plus X-Roll-NTime support to reduce load from fast miners. Load is still high on the server, but hopefully the other changes can help hold the stales down.

Edit: Forgot to mention another important change: We are now running with BIP-16 voting. The discussion here seemed pretty unanimous in supporting Gavin and his BIP-16, so that is now in effect. We already had BIP-16 support in the server's bitcoind for a couple days, but we weren't voting until now because I had to update the block generation code.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 29, 2012, 04:23:51 PM
Pushing 110GH/s (and that is w/ 3GH/s of mine down).  Good work minters.

[/semi off topic]
After spending all day getting BAMT+cgminer working (which BTW it rocks), doing my monthly inspection, and cleaning of miners, and making some changes to cooling setup I was tired.

However I decided to upgrade my AMD drivers on my watercooled workstation to finally get rid of CPU bug.

BSOD.  Reboot.  BSOD.  Somehow last good config = BSOD.  I had no flash drives to reinstall windows so I said frak it.  Thanks AMD+windows.  Great ending.
[/semi]


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on January 29, 2012, 04:30:22 PM
... Somehow last good config = BSOD.  I had no flash drives to reinstall windows so I said frak it.  Thanks AMD+windows.  Great ending.
I reckon you did manage to log into windows prior to the BSOD?
The "Last good config" registry value gets overwritten on each successfully finished boot, hence is of limited use.
Then again, Windows itself is of limited use ;)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Fefox on January 29, 2012, 05:09:47 PM
And we have a new king of the kill
1   Bossland   18,077 (MH)

Nice!

Welcome Bossland!  ;D


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 29, 2012, 05:27:36 PM
Strange the server is struggling (its actually down atm). When we had those poolhoppers, it seemed to cope just fine when he had 120+GH.
Is it possible you are logging something and that log file is becoming massive?


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 29, 2012, 05:30:59 PM
P4man it isn't raw hashpower that hurts servers it is those pathetic CPU miners with 100+ workers to generate a couple GH.

Sorry guys I had to switch to backup pool.  I can't handle 3%+ stales.  I doubt Dr H will do this but if it were my pool I would ban CPU miners.   The cheapest GPU gets what 80MH/s?.  Anyone with a worker running less than that is likely a botnet CPU mining scumbag.



Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 29, 2012, 05:32:07 PM
P4man it isn't raw hashpower that hurts servers it is those pathetic CPU miners with 100+ workers to generate a couple GH.

There are no more workers than otherwise. 280 or so.





Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 29, 2012, 05:33:50 PM
Doc is working on it !


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 29, 2012, 05:51:01 PM
P4man it isn't raw hashpower that hurts servers it is those pathetic CPU miners with 100+ workers to generate a couple GH.

There are no more workers than otherwise. 280 or so.


I guess I should have said getworks.  A single worker requesting 100x the normal amount of getwork is equally "hard" on the server as 100 workers.

With ntime rolling, and long polling high end GPU are very efficient they get 1 (sometimes >1) share per getwork on average.

So 1 billion shares ~= 1 billion getworks.

However CPU are horribly inefficient.  They rarely finish a getwork before it becomes stale thus they end up requesting multiple getworks per share.  For example a CPU getting 2 MH/s per core will take on average 35 minutes to find a share.  However on average every ~4 minutes their is an LP.  so it will take up to 8x as many getworks to provide work for an equivelent amount of hash power.

So 200 GH/s made up of nothing but 5870s vs 200 GH/s made up of nothing but Pentium 4.    A small pool can handle the former and even something like Deepbit feels the load of the latter.  Even Tycho has to routinely ban/block botnets not because of DDOS but because their large but inefficient presence is brutal on the server.

The sad thing is there is a "solution" but it must be made by the CPU miner.  Use a custom built proxy server.  It requests 1 getwork (4 billion hashes).   The proxy server then chops that up into 100 "baby sized" getworks to fuel 100 CPU cores.  Each "baby getwork" is now 40 million hashes.  At 2MH/s a CPU core will finish its work in 20 seconds.  From the pool server's perspective there is just a single 200 MH/s high efficiency worker.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Fefox on January 29, 2012, 06:00:52 PM
P4man it isn't raw hashpower that hurts servers it is those pathetic CPU miners with 100+ workers to generate a couple GH.

Sorry guys I had to switch to backup pool.  I can't handle 3%+ stales.  I doubt Dr H will do this but if it were my pool I would ban CPU miners.   The cheapest GPU gets what 80MH/s?.  Anyone with a worker running less than that is likely a botnet CPU mining scumbag.



I agree, (CPU miner ban)

btw everything is now smooth as silk again..

come back to the pool, maybe its something you are doing? ;) hehehe


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on January 29, 2012, 06:15:48 PM
I find the idea of banning CPU miners from pools appealing.
CPU mining is not even supported by default in the newest versions of cgminer... no good reason why pools shouldn't drop CPU-mining support in their own best interest.
The fact that such an approach would hit botnet overlords with a ricochet just adds more value to the idea.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Kain on January 29, 2012, 06:29:30 PM
At this point, CPU miners would be working at a loss anyway.

I see no reason that dropping support for them would upset anyone.


(Also, I leave for one morning to play WoW, and you guys push 120 and solve a bunch of blocks. I should play more WoW.)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 30, 2012, 12:07:05 AM
 :-\ no idea what the problem is but the stale rate is still not there where i want to see it.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 30, 2012, 06:56:47 AM
:-\ no idea what the problem is but the stale rate is still not there where i want to see it.

It's because the old server is still struggling to keep up.

I spent yesterday preparing the new server while at the same time trying to keep the old one afloat.

Unfortunately the new code had a rare deadlock in it, so I had to restart the back end 2-3 extra times yesterday because it would seize up. I did not want to go back to the old code because it gave higher stales. Luckily I quickly located the problem and the new version seems to have helped a lot with stales. At one point we were over 3% BTC stales. Now with the new version it seems to manage to keep it around 1%. It should be lower stales than ever on the new server.

In the middle of all that I got the new server almost ready. Now the question is, when it is ready, is there any point waiting until saturday? The old server is barely limping along, giving high stales and making miners unhappy. Not sure how long it will take to make the switch. But I don't think it should take long. Stop everything on the old server, dump the database, copy over database and wallets to new server, import database on new server, then start everything up.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 30, 2012, 07:52:03 AM
Now the question is, when it is ready, is there any point waiting until saturday?

I guess not.  Probably better to do it sooner than later now, before people run away because of the stales or slow response.
But here is something you may want to write down on your ever growing todo list: notifications, so you can let people know the server is going down (not everyone reads this thread). You could this in the miner app, email or once you have implemented it, perhaps SMS. I know you already have twitter and IRC, but thats not going to reach the majority either.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on January 30, 2012, 10:18:51 AM
You're the pool op, Doc; ultimately it's up to you. If your opinion is that the old machine is too crippled, by all means switch earlier.
I believe most sensible miners do have a multi-pool contingency plan set up?
The newbs... will be the newbs. They'll get hit whatever you do.

Personally, I switched pools for 12 hours when stales had spiked and all my rigs dropped temps by 1°C. I'm back now - provisionally.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: sturle on January 30, 2012, 12:02:41 PM
Forgot to mention another important change: We are now running with BIP-16 voting.
Great!  My 2 Ghash/s which used to be lonesome cowboys looking for entire blocks, are now mining at BitMinter.  :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 30, 2012, 12:03:24 PM
Dr. H it is your call but I wouldn't wait.  I moved my rigs to backup server so personally a move to new server would be optimal for me.  Waiting seems counterproductive.  Hashing power is on an upswing and given how tough it has been to grow the pool you probably don't want to lose the momentum.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 30, 2012, 02:23:31 PM
But here is something you may want to write down on your ever growing todo list: notifications

Thanks, added your thoughts to my existing plans for messages.

Forgot to mention another important change: We are now running with BIP-16 voting.
Great!  My 2 Ghash/s which used to be lonesome cowboys looking for entire blocks, are now mining at BitMinter.  :)

Welcome! :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 30, 2012, 05:50:23 PM
The faster you can make the switch the better.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on January 30, 2012, 05:58:47 PM
Another reason to switch earlier is our 2 day avg is ~110GH/s.  So updating the thread title to reflect that might draw in more hashing power. Of course you probably don't want that till we are on the new server.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 30, 2012, 06:05:11 PM
Well look at the live stats... i like the shift stales  ;D


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on January 30, 2012, 06:21:26 PM
Switching servers sooner than later sounds good to me.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 30, 2012, 06:23:06 PM
We have had downtime and a high number of rejected proofs of work (stales) in the last days. The old server is on its last legs now. It can no longer keep up with the load produced by so many miners. There's a new server standing by to take over.

I wanted to implement support for backup pools in the BitMinter client, and I wanted to announce the move ahead of time. Sadly the situation is now that we are running out of time. The old server is almost constantly slightly overloaded. This is producing high stales and a little more load could cause more downtime again. Therefore it appears the best move is to get over to the new server as quickly as possible. I will make the switch after I have prepared everything the best I can so that the switch can be done quickly.

You may want to set up a backup pool so you don't lose any mining time during the server switch or if the old server has any more problems before the switch. I understand not everyone will be able to set up a backup and I will try to make the switch as quick as possible to minimize downtime for miners.

Sorry for the inconvenience. Things should be much smoother on the new server.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 30, 2012, 06:48:48 PM
Donation sent. Thanks for your work Doc !  ;)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 30, 2012, 07:22:49 PM
I FINALLY MINTED A BLOCK!!!! (sure, it was only namecoin, but I love it! Need more hashes...)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 30, 2012, 07:24:48 PM
Donation sent. Thanks for your work Doc !  ;)

How did you donate? I have yet to see an address?


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 30, 2012, 07:25:43 PM
Donation sent. Thanks for your work Doc !  ;)

How did you donate? I have yet to see an address?

I too, am curious


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 30, 2012, 07:53:22 PM
Members only  ;) 15SSRJdHfhjcRU7woXR9sYKPUXNS4ScaaB or ask DrHaribo for another


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 30, 2012, 08:00:47 PM
Donation sent. Thanks for your work Doc !  ;)

Thank you, sir :)

I FINALLY MINTED A BLOCK!!!! (sure, it was only namecoin, but I love it! Need more hashes...)

That's the spirit ;D

How did you donate? I have yet to see an address?

Donation address for BitMinter: 15SSRJdHfhjcRU7woXR9sYKPUXNS4ScaaB

(Damnit, Turbo, that was secret... j/k)

It has just been well hidden :D I always wanted to create the automatic donation system instead. And I still do. That said, of course donations are a nice motivation to work more on the pool. Also a nice motivation is seeing the pool growing, even now that the server is lagging and producing high stales. It's becoming a nice community of miners here. :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on January 30, 2012, 08:05:21 PM
With the address, I bequeath unto you some spare .80 BTC...more to follow each week.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Kain on January 30, 2012, 08:07:48 PM
I have no backup pools, but I feel safe knowing the swap will be quick as possible.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 30, 2012, 09:11:49 PM
Chipped in. And Ill regularly abuse the secret address until you have a more permanent donation method.

BTW, when do you plan to switch? Might be good to give an estimated time if you can.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 30, 2012, 09:51:39 PM
With the address, I bequeath unto you some spare .80 BTC...more to follow each week.
Chipped in. And Ill regularly abuse the secret address until you have a more permanent donation method.

Thank you kindly, sirs. :)

BTW, when do you plan to switch? Might be good to give an estimated time if you can.

I wasn't sure if I might make it tonight. But it's getting rather late now. I want to test things out a bit before making the actual switch. I also don't want to switch just before going to bed in case something goes wrong.

So most likely tomorrow evening, european time.

I have no backup pools, but I feel safe knowing the swap will be quick as possible.

Doing kind of a "practice move" right now. If it works ok then the actual move should be as fast as possible. :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: SgtMoth on January 31, 2012, 07:55:41 AM
donation sent


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 02:54:13 PM
donation sent

Much appreciated, sir.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Finally the end of that long block.

You can see the BIP-16 vote here: http://blockchain.info/tx-index/14971049/d32f30a02a465570db1a4a99743045f8bdad119e417963dbc72a28732d473481 (http://blockchain.info/tx-index/14971049/d32f30a02a465570db1a4a99743045f8bdad119e417963dbc72a28732d473481)

The "/P2SH/" is the vote. Also, our blocks' coinbases start with "BitMinter" to show where they were made. The unreadable garbage is the extranonce and data for merged mining.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 06:32:47 PM
Site going down for server switch. Will be back ASAP.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 06:43:39 PM
Site going down for server switch. Will be back ASAP.

Up again. Let me know if you have any problems.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 31, 2012, 07:18:34 PM
Wow. That was fast lol.
Very smooth so far!


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 31, 2012, 07:25:52 PM
Let the good times rock...


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 07:37:41 PM
Server move took 11 minutes. I was hoping just 5-10 min, but not too bad. ;)

Unfortunately there was one problem. During the switch an NMC payment was executed an extra time. A few users now have a negative balance of NMC. You can look up every payment on blockexplorer from your transaction history on BitMinter. If you have a negative balance you will find two payments with the same amount but in different blocks on blockexplorer. Normally the pool should not pay out money you don't have, but you can consider this an advance. :D It will correct itself after a couple more NMC blocks are confirmed and your balance will be positive again. Let me know if this situation makes you unhappy.

When I switched over I set up a tunnel from the old server to the new, so you can mine even if you use the wrong IP address. I'll take this down later. Currently almost 500 connections going through it. Weird how long new DNS data takes to spread even with 5 minutes TTL. My ISP at home was even serving out the old one after TTL went to zero. TTL went back up to 5 minutes, and still the old IP. DNS is not supposed to work like that! Oh well..

A relief to see everything running smoothly. :)


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on January 31, 2012, 07:39:59 PM
Dont we have to flush our dns caches? Whats the new IP address, just to be sure


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 07:48:49 PM
Dont we have to flush our dns caches? Whats the new IP address, just to be sure

This is the new server:

Code:
> host bitminter.com
bitminter.com has address 176.9.104.178

You shouldn't have to flush anything. The TTL (time-to-live) value of 5 minutes should make the cache flush this IP address after it has been stored a maximum of 5 minutes. I was a bit surprised to see this not work properly at home though, took probably 15-20 minutes before I could see the new IP. At the office it worked fine, though.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on January 31, 2012, 07:57:35 PM
Code:
Ping wird ausgeführt für 176.9.104.178 mit 32 Bytes Daten:
Antwort von 176.9.104.178: Bytes=32 Zeit=42ms TTL=49
Antwort von 176.9.104.178: Bytes=32 Zeit=39ms TTL=49
Antwort von 176.9.104.178: Bytes=32 Zeit=42ms TTL=49
Antwort von 176.9.104.178: Bytes=32 Zeit=45ms TTL=49

Ping-Statistik für 176.9.104.178:
    Pakete: Gesendet = 4, Empfangen = 4, Verloren = 0
    (0% Verlust),
Ca. Zeitangaben in Millisek.:
    Minimum = 39ms, Maximum = 45ms, Mittelwert = 42ms

C:\Program Files\NetBalancer>

Was 150ms before and my internet is not that fast.


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 08:08:18 PM
Was 150ms before and my internet is not that fast.

We have moved from American to German server. In the long run I would like to have multiple servers and probably spread out across the world. But I don't think this should have a big impact. If your round-trip-time went up by 100 ms, that would be 50 ms longer delay one way. I guess that means if you are American you may now get long poll messages 0.05 seconds later. Except the server is much faster, so it's probably faster than before, also for Americans.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on January 31, 2012, 08:27:11 PM
Almost 2000 shares this shift.
Rejected    0 (0.00%)    
;D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on January 31, 2012, 09:00:05 PM
So we're at Hetzner now, Doc? Nice, just 8 hops away.
Round trip time of 62 ms is nothing to be scoffed at.
Stales are looking quite promising as well.

Congrats on the expedient and painless migration.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on January 31, 2012, 09:10:25 PM

Round trip time of 62 ms is nothing to be scoffed at.


Im not even sure what scoffing means, but I scoff at it:


Code:
PING bitminter.com (176.9.104.178) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=1 ttl=51 time=31.5 ms
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=2 ttl=51 time=27.5 ms
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=3 ttl=51 time=27.0 ms
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=4 ttl=51 time=25.8 ms
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=5 ttl=51 time=27.3 ms
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=6 ttl=51 time=27.4 ms
64 bytes from static.178.104.9.176.clients.your-server.de (176.9.104.178): icmp_req=7 ttl=51 time=26.5 ms
^C
--- bitminter.com ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 7 received, 0% packet loss, time 6008ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 25.879/27.613/31.500/1.679 ms


As for stales, this makes me happy:
http://img1.UploadScreenshot.com/images/main/1/3007084469.jpg (http://www.UploadScreenshot.com/image/724787/714825)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on January 31, 2012, 10:22:56 PM
P4man, nice numbers! :)

I'm still hoping pool-wide rejects will go down. It might help when miners connect directly to the new server instead of going through the old one. Since the switch, we've gone from 493 connections down to 433 through the tunnel from old to new server. Going down slowly. It may be that some miners need to be restarted to force them the resolve the hostname again and get the correct server.

So we're at Hetzner now, Doc? Nice, just 8 hops away.
Round trip time of 62 ms is nothing to be scoffed at.
Stales are looking quite promising as well.

Yep, at Hetzner. They have some very nice prices. Now we just have to get the hash rate up. The new server is idling too much. ;D

Congrats on the expedient and painless migration.

Thanks, it was a big relief! :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 01, 2012, 12:26:39 AM
Gheeeeee.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/ZodiacDragon84/Screenie.png


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 01, 2012, 01:23:35 AM

I guess that means if you are American you may now get long poll messages 0.05 seconds later. Except the server is much faster, so it's probably faster than before, also for Americans.

My pings from the southwest USA are now about 125ms.  Not sure what they were before, but that's still not bad at all.  Also, the website is blazing fast compared to what it used to be.  Thanks for all the hard work Doc!

P.S. I've never mined anywhere else...I love BitMinter!  Donated 1 BTC to 15SSRJdHfhjcRU7woXR9sYKPUXNS4ScaaB

WP


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 01, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
Awesome server migration and I am back.  BTW we are north of 130 now.  WOOT!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: btc_artist on February 01, 2012, 02:53:41 PM
Im not even sure what scoffing means, but I scoff at it:
to scoff == to ridicule, to make fun of, to mock

"nothing to be scoffed at" == it's pretty good


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 01, 2012, 05:01:12 PM
Don't look now but we just hit 150! 
I guess "bronan" was just waiting for the new server.

Stupid hot febuary is killing my hashing rate.  Yeah I didn't think to turn the AC on before I left for work because it is FEBUARY!

cgminer's auto-gpu keeping the cards "cool" but hashing power going down, down, down.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 01, 2012, 05:51:17 PM
where are you at that its hot in Feb DT?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 01, 2012, 05:58:53 PM
Hmmm the stale rate for the pools last shift was more than 2%  :-\ ?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 01, 2012, 06:06:02 PM
where are you at that its hot in Feb DT?

Virginia.  Usaully it is not hot but this winter has been really mild for the most part.  Today it is a high of 71.

4 rigs @ 870W = 3.5KW.  I am not sure what the air temp in my garage is but it must be high because every couple minutes cgminer drops the clocks on a GPU trying to keep them under thermal limit.  Man I wish I had IP access to my garage door opener.  Could open it wait 30 seconds, and close it. Should drop temps 5-10.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 01, 2012, 06:07:53 PM
Could just install a remote opener. We have been having crazy weather in Nebraska too. Record Highs all week


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: btc_artist on February 01, 2012, 06:13:47 PM
Man I wish I had IP access to my garage door opener.  Could open it wait 30 seconds, and close it. Should drop temps 5-10.
The hardware exists for it.... http://www.komar.org/cgi-bin/christmas_webcam


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: rjk on February 01, 2012, 06:40:27 PM
Man I wish I had IP access to my garage door opener.  Could open it wait 30 seconds, and close it. Should drop temps 5-10.
The hardware exists for it.... http://www.komar.org/cgi-bin/christmas_webcam
Holy jesus that site is ugly. Looks like its been run through the Geo-cities-izer machine a few times too many.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: btc_artist on February 01, 2012, 06:52:57 PM
Man I wish I had IP access to my garage door opener.  Could open it wait 30 seconds, and close it. Should drop temps 5-10.
The hardware exists for it.... http://www.komar.org/cgi-bin/christmas_webcam
Holy jesus that site is ugly. Looks like its been run through the Geo-cities-izer machine a few times too many.
The dude does that on purpose. ;)  :p

The point was D&T could use the X10 protocol to control the garage door. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_%28industry_standard%29


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 01, 2012, 07:11:51 PM
The point was D&T could use the X10 protocol to control the garage door. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_%28industry_standard%29

I think thats far more useful and practical than a thermostat on his AC :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 01, 2012, 07:26:46 PM
Uhhh... why are we at >1% stales?
Who invited that CPU-mining botnet in? ;)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 01, 2012, 07:29:57 PM
Uhhh... why are we at >1% stales?
Who invited that CPU-mining botnet in? ;)

Got I hate them.  My hypothesis is that the efficiency (and thus # of getworks per share) for some accounts is very low, significantly lower than entire rest of pool.  Which means GH per GH they put a larger load on the server.  20 GH @ 10% efficiency is like another 200GH load on the server (in terms of getwork generation).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 01, 2012, 07:40:15 PM
 :o Doc should get rid of them !


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 01, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
It's obvious that CPU miners require a whole damned lot of getworks to mercifully complete one before it's gone stale.
I just wish to see them shot. Either you are able to achieve reasonable efficiency or the pools aren't interested in talking to you.
My guess is "reasonable" could be as low as 10% to allow for really slow GPUs.

OTOH, it's not that easy for one pool to fight against botnets - the owners retaliated to previous attempts with DDoS attacks which they can freely perform at will.
We'd need a coalition of major pools setting a deadline and removing CPU-mining support "for the sake of server loads", without even explicitly mentioning botnets.
Remember that cyber-thugs are still nothing more than thugs when push comes to shove.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 01, 2012, 09:53:49 PM
We'd need a coalition of major pools setting a deadline and removing CPU-mining support "for the sake of server loads"

That sounds like a great idea to me.  Does anybody here have authoritative contacts at other pools that we could ask to hop on board with phasing out CPU mining?

WP


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 01, 2012, 09:56:01 PM
It's obvious that CPU miners require a whole damned lot of getworks to mercifully complete one before it's gone stale.
I just wish to see them shot. Either you are able to achieve reasonable efficiency or the pools aren't interested in talking to you.
My guess is "reasonable" could be as low as 10% to allow for really slow GPUs.

OTOH, it's not that easy for one pool to fight against botnets - the owners retaliated to previous attempts with DDoS attacks which they can freely perform at will.
We'd need a coalition of major pools setting a deadline and removing CPU-mining support "for the sake of server loads", without even explicitly mentioning botnets.
Remember that cyber-thugs are still nothing more than thugs when push comes to shove.

Even the slowest GPU should be much faster.

Average time between LP is ~300 seconds.  Lets me conservative and say 200 seconds.  If you can complete 4 billion hashes in 200 seconds you will on average have 1 share per LP.  Now some LP may be shorter but an equal number will be longer.  You are look at lower bound of 50% efficiency (2 getworks per share) in the long run..  4 billion  / 200 = 20 MH/s.  A 6750 is what 130 MH/s.  

Are there any GPU which are economical that get less than say 100 MH/s?  40 MH/s?

On edit: looks like there are some options between 40 MH/s & 100 MH/s.  However even 40 MH/s should be able to stay above 50 efficiency.  If some worker account is <50% efficiency over a large period of time it likely a botnet.  The less efficiency an account is the more load it puts (in terms of getworks) compared to a "normal" account with similar hashrate.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: rjk on February 01, 2012, 09:56:20 PM
We'd need a coalition of major pools setting a deadline and removing CPU-mining support "for the sake of server loads"

That sounds like a great idea to me.  Does anybody here have authoritative contacts at other pools that we could ask to hop on board with phasing out CPU mining?

WP
You can't just remove the capability, although you could ban users. The CPU miners do the same work that the GPU miners do, just slower.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 01, 2012, 09:59:27 PM
We'd need a coalition of major pools setting a deadline and removing CPU-mining support "for the sake of server loads"

That sounds like a great idea to me.  Does anybody here have authoritative contacts at other pools that we could ask to hop on board with phasing out CPU mining?

WP
You can't just remove the capability, although you could ban users. The CPU miners do the same work that the GPU miners do, just slower.

Without a proxy it isn't possible for CPU miners to avoid a low efficiency.  You can simply ban (with full payment) users who fail to meet a minimum efficiency (shares / getworks). 

Now botnets CAN use a proxy to combine multiple CPU to have higher or even perfect efficiency.  From the pool's point of view this "virtual" miner is a single very fast miner with high efficiency.  Of course if they did that they wouldn't be slamming the servers so it is win-win.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 01, 2012, 10:38:52 PM
Are there any GPU which are economical that get less than say 100 MH/s?

6670... not really economical but they need no extra power.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 01, 2012, 11:37:52 PM
What about AMD's APU processors? Cant one of those puppies pull about 30 Mhash/s due to their Radeon core?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion
The Reference is near the bottom of the CPU section


Title: Re: [95 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining, Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 02, 2012, 12:07:42 AM
Rejected work went up for a while today. Not sure why. It looked like for a while miners were not re-connecting to long polling. Anyway, I made a few tweaks to improve performance today, hope it helps a bit.

I will put some more stats in the pool back end so I can better see what's going on.

My pings from the southwest USA are now about 125ms.  Not sure what they were before, but that's still not bad at all.  Also, the website is blazing fast compared to what it used to be.  Thanks for all the hard work Doc!

Wow, that's almost the opposite side of the planet. Didn't think that would be as fast as 125 ms. Very good.

P.S. I've never mined anywhere else...I love BitMinter!  Donated 1 BTC to 15SSRJdHfhjcRU7woXR9sYKPUXNS4ScaaB

Thank you kindly, sir. :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 02, 2012, 12:15:34 AM
What about AMD's APU processors?
Your point being?
Those APUs do support OpenCL but there are no good boards for them - being targeted at the econo crowd, the mobos are low-cost microATX devices.
It makes no sense whatsoever to use one in a mining rig, especially since the integrated GPU is pathetically weak.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 02, 2012, 12:18:01 AM
I recall seeing a board that supported the processor, that also had 3 well spaced PCIe 2.1 X16 slots, and 6 RAM slots DDR3. I think is was made by MSI?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 02, 2012, 12:27:09 AM
ASUS F1A75-V EVO (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_Socket_FM1/F1A75V_EVO/) has three PCIE slots.
Still, the board and APU are more expensive and far less flexible than the epic MSI 890fxa-gd70 and a Sempron 145.
The strongest Llano is still weaker than a hd 6570 which itself is by no means a card suitable for mining.
Why bother?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 02, 2012, 12:32:23 AM
why bother? academics lad, academics!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 02, 2012, 12:34:28 AM
Ahhh... I stand corrected ;D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 02, 2012, 01:11:20 AM
I would point out the 3850 APU get 60 MH/s.  Any GPU (or CPU for that matter) with speed fast enough to complete 2x nonce range between average LP is unlikely to have a very low efficiency. Even w/ 3 LP per block that is only 40 MH/s.  For those with speeds > 1x nonce range per LP and 2x nonce range per LP efficiency is kinda hard to guestimate because a lot might depend on variance. 

Still we are more concerned with botnets consist of everything from Pentium III to modern CPU and some of those CPU get <1MH/s.  Thus their efficiency is something like 2%-5% range.  No modern rig should have a 5% efficiency, or even 10% or even 50%.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 02, 2012, 04:37:07 AM
I would point out the 3850 APU get 60 MH/s.  Any GPU (or CPU for that matter) with speed fast enough to complete 2x nonce range between average LP is unlikely to have a very low efficiency. Even w/ 3 LP per block that is only 40 MH/s.  For those with speeds > 1x nonce range per LP and 2x nonce range per LP efficiency is kinda hard to guestimate because a lot might depend on variance. 

Still we are more concerned with botnets consist of everything from Pentium III to modern CPU and some of those CPU get <1MH/s.  Thus their efficiency is something like 2%-5% range.  No modern rig should have a 5% efficiency, or even 10% or even 50%.

Understood. However, it is also my understanding from an underground site I occasionally peruse, that some botmasters have figured out remote GPU mining. They set up the drivers and APP SDK to auto download on update, get the python or other dependencies, and run a dumbed down daemon to hash away after system has been idle for x-time. They troll sites where gamers hang out bragging about their hardware, and if they have an ATI card, they just ping the ip from the forums, and go to town. That is another reason I like Doc Haribos Java. It dont hide from you.  :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Geir on February 02, 2012, 08:48:38 AM
I’ve actually gotten security warnings twice from Symantec on cgMiner.exe now. So apparently cgminer is being used form something malicious out there.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 02, 2012, 09:12:54 AM
I’ve actually gotten security warnings twice from Symantec on cgMiner.exe now. So apparently cgminer is being used form something malicious out there.

its used to run on botnets. Its old news, most AVs have been warning about most miner apps for some time now, for this reason. The better AVs give a correct warning, stating the app is potentially unwanted (which would be the case if your machine was infected by a trojan and running a miner without your knowledge). Unfortunately most just call it malware or a trojan, even though cgminer by itself demonstrably is not.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 02, 2012, 02:15:58 PM
I’ve actually gotten security warnings twice from Symantec on cgMiner.exe now. So apparently cgminer is being used form something malicious out there.

its used to run on botnets. Its old news, most AVs have been warning about most miner apps for some time now, for this reason. The better AVs give a correct warning, stating the app is potentially unwanted (which would be the case if your machine was infected by a trojan and running a miner without your knowledge). Unfortunately most just call it malware or a trojan, even though cgminer by itself demonstrably is not.

Hopefully with cgminer dropping CPU support this will go away. 


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 02, 2012, 03:44:13 PM
Welcome to our new king of the hill

1   michaelmclees   33,117

33GH, thats some serious hashing power!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 02, 2012, 06:34:05 PM
Welcome to our new king of the hill

1   michaelmclees   33,117

33GH, thats some serious hashing power!

looks like he left early :D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: sturle on February 02, 2012, 06:59:51 PM
Are there any GPU which are economical that get less than say 100 MH/s?
My fanless HD 5450 does 15 Mhash/s..  Don't make fun of it -- when it found a block in May, it paid for itself many times!  Perhaps I should go back to mining solo on that one.  Luck may strike again!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 02, 2012, 07:10:46 PM
IN may difficulty was roughly 1/10th what it is now. You were extremely lucky then, youd have to be extraordinary lucky now.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 02, 2012, 08:19:43 PM
We need luck.This block is starting to p**s me off! :'(


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 02, 2012, 08:27:11 PM
Meh. You get pissed off too easily. While bitminter server was having trouble, I temporarily moved to eclipse. My first full block there was 8M shares and in the next few blocks, there were 3 more 5-6+M share blocks without a single truly lucky one.
https://eclipsemc.com/block_stats.php (Ii started at their block 446).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 02, 2012, 08:34:17 PM
patience is a virtue


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 02, 2012, 09:13:10 PM
Welcome to our new king of the hill

1   michaelmclees   33,117

33GH, thats some serious hashing power!

looks like he left early :D

He pushed up to almost 40 GH/s, then stales started rising.

What I found strange is that the new server isn't breaking a sweat, and still things slow down badly when the number of requests per second goes over a certain point. After watching the logs and numbers for a while I've located several bottlenecks in my programming. I hope to have a new version of the pool back end up sometime tomorrow. It should be able to make full use of the more powerful server.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 02, 2012, 09:18:14 PM
Well it's not too bad on my side. I'm down to 0.53% for this block. It looks like the FPGA have now a lower stale rate than the GPUs. Can you add the stale rate for each worker to the worker stats ? Would be interesting for tuning.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: michaelmclees on February 02, 2012, 09:25:17 PM
Welcome to our new king of the hill

1   michaelmclees   33,117

33GH, thats some serious hashing power!

I threw some GPUMAX at you attempting to figure out what the use of leasing hashing power was.  I'm still clueless.   ???


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 02, 2012, 09:34:02 PM
Well it's not too bad on my side. I'm down to 0.53% for this block. It looks like the FPGA have now a lower stale rate than the GPUs. Can you add the stale rate for each worker to the worker stats ? Would be interesting for tuning.

0.53% isn't very good. And somewhere around 160-170 GH/s stales suddenly rise a lot. Next update the back end should run much better.

Add percentages beside the rejected numbers? Good idea. I put that on my list.

I threw some GPUMAX at you attempting to figure out what the use of leasing hashing power was.  I'm still clueless.   ???

Well, it's very useful for me. I can see how much my server can handle, and find bottlenecks in my software. :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 02, 2012, 09:59:27 PM
Add percentages beside the rejected numbers? Good idea. I put that on my list.

Yes, would be cool.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: michaelmclees on February 02, 2012, 10:07:09 PM


Well, it's very useful for me. I can see how much my server can handle, and find bottlenecks in my software. :)


Wonderful.  Now just so I understand how your payout system works, for shift #1398, my score is .01260124, meaning my reward will be around 50*.01260124, which is where my expected reward comes in.  But this will only occur if the next block is found before shift #1408 ends, which will happen in about 6 hours or so.  If no block is found by then, I'll get nothing.

Question, suppose 2 blocks are found rapidly by your pool.  A block is found in shift 1500 and shift 1501.  The block in shift 1500 will be composed of the work done in shift 1490-1500.  And then for the block in shift 1501 will be paid out to the workers in shifts 1491-1501, no?  Is this how it works?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 02, 2012, 10:11:36 PM
Dr. H not a high priority but could you consider seperating rejects into invalids & stales.  I always assumed my cards were perfect but my backup pool is ABC Pool and I they break them out.  I was surprised to see some invalid shares not just stale ones.

It would be useful for you too.  Stales the pool is partially responsible for (prompt LP, fast getwork responses) but invalids are completely on the miner.  There is nothing a "properly functioning" pool can do that would cause a miner to get invalids.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 02, 2012, 10:25:03 PM
Yeah, I'd love to see that option as well.
ABCPool's suspiciously high invalid rates always bothered me...


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 02, 2012, 10:42:40 PM
Now just so I understand how your payout system works, for shift #1398, my score is .01260124, meaning my reward will be around 50*.01260124, which is where my expected reward comes in.  But this will only occur if the next block is found before shift #1408 ends, which will happen in about 6 hours or so.  If no block is found by then, I'll get nothing.

Correct.

Quote
Question, suppose 2 blocks are found rapidly by your pool.  A block is found in shift 1500 and shift 1501.  The block in shift 1500 will be composed of the work done in shift 1490-1500.  And then for the block in shift 1501 will be paid out to the workers in shifts 1491-1501, no?

Correct.

Just a heads up it is not possible to "game" PPLNS.  If you do get paid for 2 blocks it would simply be luck not any mathematical advantage.  If you get paid for none it once again is just bad luck.  In the long run PPLNS ensures everyone is paid "fairly" because there is no method you can use to consistently gain a greater than average share (relative to hashing power provided).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 03, 2012, 07:29:45 AM
I threw some GPUMAX at you attempting to figure out what the use of leasing hashing power was.  I'm still clueless.   ???

Well, it's very useful for me. I can see how much my server can handle, and find bottlenecks in my software. :)


I can see a few uses for it, but frankly none that would be enduring or explain all the >100% pps payout schemes propping up.

1) testing or kickstarting a pool. Has to be a small market, but completely legit and not that new (ie, no different than offering bonusses as many pools do in the early days).
2) poolhopping proportional pools, but apparently gpumax disallows that (no idea how they check that though)
3) malicious intent like a double spend attack. Although that would only be useful if you can attract a majority of the hashrate (possibly in combination with a DDoS attack to reduce overall hashrate) and even then you would only want to rent it for as long as needed to pull off the attack. Still this one scares me.
4) ponzi scheme, particularly those ones only paying out like once or twice a week.

Maybe I missed some, but whatever the use, most of these schemes do not tell you how your hashpower is used, some even clearly lie about it; I would refuse to rent my hashpower if I dont know how its used. 


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 03, 2012, 03:04:30 PM
Someone shoot this damned block, please! ...or shoot me instead for I've had enough >:(


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 03, 2012, 03:32:13 PM
Just use some twisted logic to make yourself believe its a good thing :).
Here is how I do it: in the long run, we will not significantly deviate from the average. So all the bad luck we have now, will be compensated by yet to come luck.  Some of the impatient will have left the pool by then, and therefore the patient one's will reap even more reward :D. (please, dont bore me with statistics to prove me wrong!).

Seriously, a 5+M share block is gonna happen now and then. If its followed by a second  "instant" block as we have seen a few times, suddenly it doesnt look so dramatic anymore.

Also, if it helps, A1bitcoinpool is still working on its first block, ~4.5M shares now. And its a proportional pool lol, so who in their right minds is going to mine there now? Have to feel sorry for the guys mining there.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 03, 2012, 03:54:03 PM
Whenever I try, I seem to get the glas-half-empty attitude. A voice keeps telling me "You've had your luck, partner. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better"
uhmmm... wait, that's just my pet Raven... kindly disregard my bitching :)

What blows my mind it that it's A1's first block... what's the pool op doing? Sleeping? Should have killed it off like 2M shares ago.
Everyone should know when to fold and run to the hills, cut the losses.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 03, 2012, 04:02:10 PM
The worst thing about a new pool (or a pool after making any change) is that nagging voice saying "what is there is a bug, what if it is impossible to solve a block."


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 03, 2012, 04:10:06 PM
I would hope they have the sense to test their pool on the testnet first.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 03, 2012, 04:13:49 PM
Mind you, P4, the migration was a bit hasty...  ;D
What if Doc opted to take the combat reconnaisance approach to pool server bugs?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 03, 2012, 04:17:50 PM
I was referring to A1. I have full confidence in Dr H :).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 03, 2012, 04:51:57 PM
I can't help but loathe the indaquate webforum threading...


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 03, 2012, 05:04:26 PM
Mind you, P4, the migration was a bit hasty...  ;D
What if Doc opted to take the combat reconnaisance approach to pool server bugs?

I trust Doc.  Plus we have solved some blocks.  I was talking more A1.  They have solved no blocks.  Say it goes on ANOTHER 3 million shares just by luck of the draw..  When they hit 7.5 million shares and the pool has NEVER solved any block true or not people are going to say the pool is broken.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 03, 2012, 05:26:07 PM

I trust Doc.  Plus we have solved some blocks.  I was talking more A1.  They have solved no blocks.  Say it goes on ANOTHER 3 million shares just by luck of the draw..  When they hit 7.5 million shares and the pool has NEVER solved any block true or not people are going to say the pool is broken.

Its a proportional pool. By the time it hits 7.5M shares , the payout of each share is 1/5th what you get elsewhere. Youd have to be nuts to mine there even if you trust the software.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 03, 2012, 05:55:09 PM
Sticking with Doc...lol. DT will probably just solve another record block after this long one (what was it, like 4 mins or something?)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 03, 2012, 06:56:25 PM
Doc, is that you? Random packet storm? Did that uncooperative block panic and go into self-defense mode?
Two different ISPs here:
Code:
grep Rej /var/log/bcm/cgminer.log
[2012-02-03 11:52:19] Rejected 00000000.fa5f6276.ffec0594 GPU 1 thread 3 pool 0
[2012-02-03 14:48:47] Rejected 00000000.3dfbc4e8.9d947728 GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0
[2012-02-03 18:53:01] Rejected 00000000.6697714e.24413b63 GPU 1 thread 3 pool 0
[2012-02-03 18:53:02] Rejected 00000000.eb786dc1.391eaf89 GPU 1 thread 3 pool 0
[2012-02-03 18:53:04] Rejected 00000000.a0e01036.951f5476 GPU 1 thread 3 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:26:04] Rejected 00000000.33c800a9.78d87c84 GPU 0 thread 1 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:26:09] Rejected 00000000.f65108c1.bcce7087 GPU 1 thread 3 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:26:16] Rejected 00000000.12435199.de7a9686 GPU 1 thread 2 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:26:23] Rejected 00000000.3afa04dd.9c2370ec GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:26:28] Rejected 00000000.b407c65c.f9b19e41 GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:26:29] Rejected 00000000.bdb442de.3dff4679 GPU 0 thread 1 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:27:11] Rejected 00000000.e4b23f2c.b84fb8b9 GPU 1 thread 2 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:27:24] Rejected 00000000.cb522e85.fc5588a1 GPU 1 thread 2 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:27:46] Rejected 00000000.e6228bf4.fe79408f GPU 1 thread 3 pool 0

Code:
grep Rej /var/log/bcm/cgminer.log
[2012-02-03 09:15:11] Rejected 00000000.42d68edf.159cd9dd GPU 0 thread 1 pool 0
[2012-02-03 11:51:44] Rejected 00000000.888e345d.fa7c6a12 GPU 0 thread 1 pool 0
[2012-02-03 15:53:19] Rejected 00000000.48ba0fff.4496ff33 GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0
[2012-02-03 15:53:20] Rejected 00000000.57a74bc7.739e9338 GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0
[2012-02-03 16:17:36] Rejected 00000000.fac56b12.87264678 GPU 0 thread 1 pool 0
[2012-02-03 18:53:02] Rejected 00000000.8758f606.c395150e GPU 0 thread 1 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:27:40] Rejected 00000000.178a0ae4.262de7cd GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0
[2012-02-03 19:27:47] Rejected 00000000.48ecabb3.f02dba81 GPU 0 thread 0 pool 0


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 04, 2012, 01:27:58 AM
we are killing namecoin blocks, now we just gotta break this bitcoin block! REVEAL YOUR SECRETS BLOCK!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: marks1976 on February 04, 2012, 01:55:56 AM
we are killing namecoin blocks, now we just gotta break this bitcoin block! REVEAL YOUR SECRETS BLOCK!

Ask and you shall receive.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 04, 2012, 01:57:24 AM
AND! Dutchman for the win!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 04, 2012, 02:06:41 AM
AND! Dutchman for the win!

Yay! All hail Dutchman, the slayer of the beast!

Doc, is that you? Random packet storm? Did that uncooperative block panic and go into self-defense mode?

Most likely it was the rate of requests going high enough to hit that bottleneck, causing everything to slow down and stales to occur.

I'm testing the new pool backend version now. I wanted to get it running tonight. But I'm going to let it run overnight to get some more testing on it.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 04, 2012, 08:40:21 AM
The tunnel from old server to new went down this morning, causing quite a few workers to lose their connection to the pool. It's back up again now and workers seem to be reconnecting. Still through the old server. It's surprising that the old address is still being used so long after the switch in DNS. It appears BitMinter client is among them. I'll have to look into this problem and see if there is a way to force Java to look up hostnames anew.

What happened was that my overvoltage protection kicked in and cut the power to one of my computers. The shell with the tunnel was running on that computer, so the tunnel went too.

I think the tunnel was down 30-40 minutes? My apologies for the lost mining time for those affected.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 04, 2012, 08:48:19 AM
What happened was that my overvoltage protection kicked in and cut the power to one of my computers. The shell with the tunnel was running on that computer, so the tunnel went too.

Not a biggie I think, but use screen. Then whatever session you are running over ssh wont close down if you close the shell.
simply run
Code:
screen ./yourscript
To detach the screen press control+a and then d
although just closing the shell will do the same, and not stop the script.
to reattach a screen
screen -r



Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 04, 2012, 08:56:28 AM
Not a biggie I think, but use screen.

Yeah, I use screen all the time. For some reason I didn't with this thing and I thought it was only going to be needed a few minutes/hours. I put it inside a screen session now when I restarted it.

Found the problem too. When running with a security manager, the Java virtual machine caches DNS lookups forever. I didn't know that. Java WebStart applications always run with a security manager.

I will see about fixing this problem + fixing GCN support so AMD HD7970 runs properly fast (right now you must disable BFI_INT on those), then release an update for the BitMinter client.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 04, 2012, 09:00:55 AM
Is the new backend up ?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 04, 2012, 11:13:32 AM
Is the new backend up ?

It wasn't when you asked, but it's running now.

First block change 3 stales. Second block change 0 stales. Looking good so far. Block rounds are of course affected by stales from the earlier backend still. But you can see the results of the new backend in the current shift, and faster response to your workers.

Ok, stales went up a bit more now, but still looking ok I guess.

Working on some more improvements.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 04, 2012, 11:19:44 AM
Good. Now that you have solved the stale problem, perhaps you can tackle the block finding algorithm? :D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 04, 2012, 11:48:13 AM
Time for the gpumax stress test :D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 04, 2012, 11:59:41 AM
 :-\ :'(

Edit: So far the changes had a negative effect on my side  ???


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 04, 2012, 04:43:31 PM
Who the hell let me solve that block?  ;) ;D

EDIT: My 4890 solved that one. wierd.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 04, 2012, 05:56:29 PM
Woot! 7950s and 7970s are hitting the market, and as I had hoped, causing 58x0 cards to come on the market and prices to plummet. I just got a deal on a 5850 for 70 euro and Im negotiating a 5870 for ~90.

Now if only powersupplies would drop in price too. I am still using piles of older 500-700W PSUs, leftovers or psus that somehow found their way to my house, but despite generally being A-brands like antec, most of them cant even power 2 overclocked cards;  this is getting tedious and the cable salad is not good for my zen/karma/whatever. Since I have several unused PCIe slots its all too tempting to spend my money on more cards, but meh.. a new PSU most come next now.

Im eyeing a Tagan 1000W for a good price, I know its not Antec, but does anyone have experience with that brand?  I can buy it for like 1/3 the price of an equivalent Antec, and reviews dont seem bad at all.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 04, 2012, 05:59:57 PM
Edit: So far the changes had a negative effect on my side  ???

Hmm yes, the results are a bit unexpected.

Currently I have 2 (0.08%) rejected and 2,431 accepted in the block rounds. And I have 0 rejected and 545 accepted in the current shift.

I'm not sure what's causing some workers to get high stales still. I'm working on some ideas to lower stales further though.

Anyone who is running BitMinter client and haven't restarted it since we switched server, please try shutting it down and starting it back up. Then it will connect directly to the server in Germany, instead of going to the US and then through a tunnel to Germany. This could improve stales somewhat.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 04, 2012, 09:37:08 PM
Doc, I have a noob question about the BitMinter client.

Would you say that minimizing the client accomplishes the same thing speed-wise as switching it to Performance Mode?  The reason I ask is because I'm wondering whether adding a check box under Options for "Start in Performance Mode" would essentially be a duplicate of "Start Minimized".

If there is a difference, would the option to start in performance mode be a good addition to the client?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 04, 2012, 09:58:08 PM
Would you say that minimizing the client accomplishes the same thing speed-wise as switching it to Performance Mode?  The reason I ask is because I'm wondering whether adding a check box under Options for "Start in Performance Mode" would essentially be a duplicate of "Start Minimized".

If there is a difference, would the option to start in performance mode be a good addition to the client?

It's basically the same performance-wise, because both reduce the amount of screen updates so your GPU can mine instead. If you have 4-5 gauges being updated on the screen you can see some slowdown.

I think starting in performance mode can still be useful though. I'll add it to my list. :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 04, 2012, 10:49:10 PM
Hmm yes, the results are a bit unexpected.

Currently I have 2 (0.08%) rejected and 2,431 accepted in the block rounds. And I have 0 rejected and 545 accepted in the current shift.

I'm not sure what's causing some workers to get high stales still. I'm working on some ideas to lower stales further though.

Anyone who is running BitMinter client and haven't restarted it since we switched server, please try shutting it down and starting it back up. Then it will connect directly to the server in Germany, instead of going to the US and then through a tunnel to Germany. This could improve stales somewhat.

Looks like some local network issues were part of the high stales. Now i'm at 0.35%. I hope it will continue to fall.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Defkin on February 05, 2012, 02:25:40 AM

I'm not sure what's causing some workers to get high stales still. I'm working on some ideas to lower stales further though.


Could it be due to FPGA workers?

I am running 1.1gh at about 1-2% stales on fpga. This stale rate is mainly due to no miner software support yet for LP.
On the up side I am doing it for 47w power usage :)



Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 05, 2012, 02:37:07 AM
Ztex software has long polling. I have now 0.14% stale rate with 1k2 GH FPGA power. Looks like Doc killed the bugs  8)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 05, 2012, 02:54:13 AM
Doctor Haribo, Curing the bugs that ail you, one line at a time ;)


Title: Re: [127 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 06, 2012, 01:02:03 AM
Thanks for all those votes of confidence earlier. :)

New version of pool backend up today. Big performance improvements. GPUmax took the server to 220 GH/s total and I could barely see any load.

Last problem to fix for the pool to work better with GPUmax is to get better in sync with the big pools. GPUmax uses their long polling regardless of which pool they are mining at (it doesn't watch our long poll at all). This has to do with how work from different pools gets sent through GPUmax to the same miner, and a long poll signal from them to that miner would cause it to throw away all the work, regardless of which pool it is from.

Anyway, that's a GPUmax specific problem. For normal miners we can now take a very high hash rate. So fire up every machine you've got!

As always with big changes on the system, please let me know if you notice anything wrong.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 06, 2012, 11:28:41 PM
where did bossland go? ???


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: marks1976 on February 07, 2012, 05:04:13 AM
I want to have my avatar on the forums display my speed I am pushing through bitminter but when I copy and paste the code I get a blank box.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: marks1976 on February 07, 2012, 05:28:34 AM
I want to have my avatar on the forums display my speed I am pushing through bitminter but when I copy and paste the code I get a blank box.
Never mind I figured it out just a dumb moment.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 07, 2012, 05:29:01 AM
where did bossland go? ???

115% ?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 07, 2012, 05:31:57 AM
bah. we'll git'r done without him then.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 07, 2012, 09:03:19 AM
Wow, 0.08% stales... I think I'm in love.
Thanks for the hard work, Doc.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 08, 2012, 03:40:42 AM
bossland has returned :o


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 09, 2012, 01:29:51 AM
Personal best record I think. 1 4970, 2 5870's
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/ZodiacDragon84/Record.jpg


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 09, 2012, 05:33:29 AM
Personal best record I think. 1 4970, 2 5870's

Very nice :-)

You're hanging with my 5970 and XFire Mobility Radeon 5870s, which are presently doing a total of 1007 MH/s.  Sadly, two Mobility 5870s go about as fast as a single desktop version 5870.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: boozer on February 09, 2012, 09:17:37 PM
For my bitcoin username, my BTC reject rate is about 0.4% but it's 5.5% for NMC.  I have 2 x 5830's a 5850 and a 6950, all running about the max overclock i could get.  You know of any reason my NMC reject rate is so much higher than my BTC reject rate and the pool reject rate?  Are my overclocks not as stable as I think they are, lol?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 09, 2012, 09:36:21 PM
looks like fox has unleashed something f*****G awesome!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 09, 2012, 09:45:50 PM
holy s***


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 09, 2012, 09:54:41 PM
Thanks for the hard work, Doc.

Glad you like it :)

For my bitcoin username, my BTC reject rate is about 0.4% but it's 5.5% for NMC.  I have 2 x 5830's a 5850 and a 6950, all running about the max overclock i could get.  You know of any reason my NMC reject rate is so much higher than my BTC reject rate and the pool reject rate?  Are my overclocks not as stable as I think they are, lol?

Reject rates now seem very different from user to user. Currently I have 12 (0.02%) rejects from 36 hours of mining. That's on BTC. On NMC I have 1 reject (0.01%).

High rejects could be not only stales but also invalid shares due to overclocking too high. The BitMinter client will show a count of miscalculated proofs of work (next to the bomb icon), and not send them to the server. I believe DiabloMiner also detects miscalculations. What happens is the CPU double-checking the proofs of work generated by the GPU. Not sure about other miners. Some miners might send them to the server which would result in rejects.

The NMC rejects always or often being higher than BTC rejects might be the miner ignoring long poll notifications because it sees the bitcoin block isn't changing to using a new parent block hash. BitMinter client won't do this, and I believe new versions of cgminer won't do it either. Or do you need to use an option for it to work well with merged mining?

Hmm, can't think of any other reasons for high stales at the moment.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 09, 2012, 10:04:29 PM
my stales for btc have been running .07% and honestly ive only seen one or two on nmc


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: marks1976 on February 09, 2012, 10:06:31 PM
I run .02% stales between 2 cards in 2 different machines.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: LightningFury on February 09, 2012, 10:08:15 PM
39,901 Mhps :o

wow nice


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 09, 2012, 10:18:24 PM
For my bitcoin username, my BTC reject rate is about 0.4% but it's 5.5% for NMC.  I have 2 x 5830's a 5850 and a 6950, all running about the max overclock i could get.  You know of any reason my NMC reject rate is so much higher than my BTC reject rate and the pool reject rate?  Are my overclocks not as stable as I think they are, lol?

Possibly.

Rejects are either:
- stales (hash is valid but the underlying data is no longer current)
- invalids (card generated incorrect hashes that were never valid)

Hopefully someday Dr. H can split out rejects into stales & invalids.  In the meantime you could drop clock rate on one card to stock and see if rejects are lower for that card.  If so the difference is a good indication on the % that is from invalids.  The rest is from stales.

Newer version of cgminer does better w/ stales on merged mining pools (due to improved handling of LP).
Your internet connection, and latency to the pool will affect stales (but not invalids).
Aggressive overclock increases the rate of invalids (but not stales).
Having intensity set too high increases stales (but not invalids) if used w/ "submit stale" option (in cgminer) due to increases batch time.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Finny on February 09, 2012, 10:24:36 PM
There has been a bit of an influx huh? Looks like our payout per share is going down. :p


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 09, 2012, 10:26:46 PM
There has been a bit of an influx huh? Looks like our payout per share is going down. :p

You mean per block.  Payout per share only changes due to difficulty.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Finny on February 09, 2012, 10:43:22 PM
Yeah thats what I meant...


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 09, 2012, 11:01:52 PM
Looks like someone visited us or rented some hashing power:

Latest Shifts
2012-02-09 22:59
Completed    Ghps    Your Ghps    Your score
2012-02-09 22:26   181.778   1.695   0.93%
2012-02-09 21:32   162.272   1.695   1.04%
2012-02-09 20:30   133.778   1.666   1.25%
2012-02-09 19:16   135.422   1.665   1.23%
2012-02-09 18:03   136.809   1.692   1.24%
2012-02-09 16:51   139.309   1.661   1.19%
2012-02-09 15:40   139.454   1.757   1.26%
2012-02-09 14:29   136.595   1.707   1.25%
2012-02-09 13:16   135.904   1.651   1.21%
2012-02-09 12:03   134.322   1.745   1.30%

Block was found (YAY, well done Turbor), and now its back to 120GH. Its like reverse hopping :).


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 10, 2012, 02:13:28 AM
Looks like I ordered my 6950's just in time! Should put me back up in the 1% region of hashing power in the pool...lol and facepalm. And I should be able to pull an extra 60 Mhash/s out of the A8-3850 APU I am putting in the rig, so ideally, I should be able to add 860 Mhash/s to my current ~800 Mhash/s


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Defkin on February 11, 2012, 01:51:33 AM


I think the pool needs a G.Luk upgrade.

may i suggest a rabbit foot usb? :)

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/476/rabbitfootimgassistcust.jpg


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 11, 2012, 02:13:52 AM
he he. we have plenty of namecoins though!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Finny on February 11, 2012, 02:26:00 AM
Thats no consolation...


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 11, 2012, 02:34:52 AM
https://exchange.bitparking.com

It's better than nothing Finny \(0_0)/¯


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 11, 2012, 07:33:07 PM
Streaks of bad luck are often followed by streaks of good luck.  Everything tends to average out.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 12, 2012, 12:13:43 AM
EDIT: Not sure what was wrong, but I got it working with DiabloMiner.

I'm a total noob miner, as I've never used anything but the BitMinter client.  Hence, I'm way more familiar with everybody in the BitMinter thread, but let me know if it's inappropriate for me to post this here vs the mining support thread.

I found a computer at work with a GeForce 8800GT.  The computer is logged off about 90% of the time, so I want to setup some startup/logon/logoff scripts to mine with it when it's not in use.

Before starting all this, I tested with the BitMinter client and it gave me about 19.5 MH/s.

One poster claims that the 8800GT does about 20 MH/s using Phoenix and 24 MH/s using puddinpop's RPC CUDA miner.  Not real impressive, but I'll take free hashes. :-)  I spent about an hour and a half trying to make the RPC miner work, but here's what I'm getting on ports 8332 and 80.

Command:
Code:
rpcminer-cuda.exe -url=http://mint.bitminter.com:8332/ -user=Username.Worker -password=Password

Result:
Code:
Could not retrieve work from RPC server.
CURL return value = 22
No blocks are being hashed right now.  This can happen if the application is still starting up, you supplied incorrect parameters, or there is a communications error connecting to the RPC server.

I'd be happy to just use Phoenix, but I also spent about an hour trying to make that work, without success.  Here's what I get when I try to use ports 8332 or 80.

Command:
Code:
phoenix -u http://Username.Worker:Password@mint.bitminter.com:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 AGGRESSION=4

Result:
Code:
[11/02/2012 17:03:42] Phoenix v1.7.5 starting...
[11/02/2012 17:03:43] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:03:58] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:04:13] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:04:28] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:04:43] Failed to connect, retrying...
[0 Khash/sec] [0 Accepted] [0 Rejected] [RPC]

I also tried Phatk and Phatk2, but I couldn't find a way to disable BFI_INT.  Here's what I get with those kernels:
Code:
FATAL kernel error: Failed to apply BFI_INT patch to kernel! Is BFI_INT supported on this hardware?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
WP


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 12, 2012, 12:34:12 AM
Quote

I'd be happy to just use Phoenix, but I also spent about an hour trying to make that work, without success.  Here's what I get when I try to use ports 8332 or 80.

Command:
Code:
phoenix -u http://Username.Worker:Password@mint.bitminter.com:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 AGGRESSION=4

Result:
Code:
[11/02/2012 17:03:42] Phoenix v1.7.5 starting...
[11/02/2012 17:03:43] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:03:58] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:04:13] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:04:28] Failed to connect, retrying...
[11/02/2012 17:04:43] Failed to connect, retrying...
[0 Khash/sec] [0 Accepted] [0 Rejected] [RPC]

I also tried Phatk and Phatk2, but I couldn't find a way to disable BFI_INT.  Here's what I get with those kernels:
Code:
FATAL kernel error: Failed to apply BFI_INT patch to kernel! Is BFI_INT supported on this hardware?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
WP


You may want to try:

Code:
phoenix -u http://Username_Worker:Password@mint.bitminter.com:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 AGGRESSION=4



Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 12, 2012, 12:42:09 AM
You may want to try:

Code:
phoenix -u http://Username_Worker:Password@mint.bitminter.com:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 AGGRESSION=4

Thanks malavita.  I thought I was about to have a facepalm moment, but I'm afraid I get the same result with an underscore as I do with a period.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 12, 2012, 01:06:43 AM
You said this was a work computer? Is traffic being filtered maybe?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 12, 2012, 01:20:11 AM
You may want to try:

Code:
phoenix -u http://Username_Worker:Password@mint.bitminter.com:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 AGGRESSION=4

Thanks malavita.  I thought I was about to have a facepalm moment, but I'm afraid I get the same result with an underscore as I do with a period.

Have you tried port 80 instead of 8332?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 12, 2012, 01:29:16 AM
I have a feeling we are almost there on this block everyone! bring out the pick axes!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 12, 2012, 01:33:23 AM
You said this was a work computer? Is traffic being filtered maybe?

Good thought, but I'm the IT Manager and configured everything.  Still, I double-checked and nothing's being blocked.

Have you tried port 80 instead of 8332?

Yup, same results either way.

Thanks,
WP


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 12, 2012, 03:54:06 AM
Victory is had! block solved by Miner9er. Lets keep em coming guys!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 12, 2012, 08:37:21 AM
Back on track ;)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 12, 2012, 01:04:17 PM
I switched to v1.2.2 of the back end a moment ago.

What's new:
  • Faster reaction to block changes (detect blocks from other pools faster + initiate long poll response faster)
  • Use X-Reject-Reason to tell the miner why its proof of work was rejected. Support for this coming in the next release of the BitMinter client which will log the messages. Support by other miners is listed here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork_support (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork_support)
  • Improved logging. There is a bug causing the back end to freeze up for 2-3 seconds. Seems to happen about once per day. Hopefully this will help track it down.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 12, 2012, 02:53:03 PM
our 18 Ghash hopper has returned...


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: boozer on February 13, 2012, 05:05:44 AM
Man... tough week for the BTC for our pool, if only we could switch the NMC and BTC found blocks around   :o


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 13, 2012, 08:31:07 AM
Man... tough week for the BTC for our pool, if only we could switch the NMC and BTC found blocks around   :o

This.
Oh well, look at the bright side, chances are we wont have a week this bad again for a long time :p.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: boozer on February 13, 2012, 10:43:26 AM

This.
Oh well, look at the bright side, chances are we wont have a week this bad again for a long time :p.

Lol, I like your optimism!  Thats a good way to look at it... just getting our bad weeks over with early so its nothing but good ones from here on out   ;)

All we need is for Bitcoin to start taking luck into account to help those that are short on it   ;D


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 13, 2012, 03:14:31 PM
What did you break Doc? You were supposed to run the pool server with --blocks=fast and --double-blocks, not with --blocks=ultra-slow  :D


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 13, 2012, 07:55:18 PM
Docs got fast and super fast going, but going to Namecoin instead...lol. Just port it over to the bitcoin block now!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: sturle on February 13, 2012, 08:23:35 PM
What's the chance of three > 95% CDF blocks in a row? :-(

I don't believe there is a bug.  I've mined solo for long enough to be calm in cases like this.  Between Christmas and New year 2010 my 5970 found 0 blocks at 700 Mhash/s, while a friend mining 1.8 Mhash/s on the CPU of a laptop found 2 blocks in 2 days.  A short time after I found four blocks in less than 24 hours.  Sometime around then I found two blocks with only one block between.  Randomness is terribly unpredictable.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 13, 2012, 08:29:04 PM
What's the chance of three > 95% CDF blocks in a row? :-(
  Randomness is terribly unpredictable.

That's part of the fun!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 13, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
Sometime around then I found two blocks with only one block between. 

I find that hard to believe.
:)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 13, 2012, 09:08:42 PM
What's the chance of three > 95% CDF blocks in a row? :-(

I don't believe there is a bug.  I've mined solo for long enough to be calm in cases like this.  Between Christmas and New year 2010 my 5970 found 0 blocks at 700 Mhash/s, while a friend mining 1.8 Mhash/s on the CPU of a laptop found 2 blocks in 2 days.  A short time after I found four blocks in less than 24 hours.  Sometime around then I found two blocks with only one block between.  Randomness is terribly unpredictable.

Now I don't feel so bad, I have been on this pool only for the last two :)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 13, 2012, 09:17:11 PM
What's the chance of three > 95% CDF blocks in a row? :-(

I don't believe there is a bug.  I've mined solo for long enough to be calm in cases like this.  Between Christmas and New year 2010 my 5970 found 0 blocks at 700 Mhash/s, while a friend mining 1.8 Mhash/s on the CPU of a laptop found 2 blocks in 2 days.  A short time after I found four blocks in less than 24 hours.  Sometime around then I found two blocks with only one block between.  Randomness is terribly unpredictable.

Now I don't feel so bad, I have been on this pool only for the last two :)

Stick around, we usually do way better than this. Usually 1 or more blocks a day.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 13, 2012, 11:09:10 PM
Now I don't feel so bad, I have been on this pool only for the last two :)

You couldnt have started at a worse time:
https://bitminter.com/stats/rewards

At least we are piling up namecoins lol.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 13, 2012, 11:14:13 PM
True, but this pool seems very nice and at least I won't lose out to hoppers since I mine 24/7 :)  BTW, what do you do with NMCs? Don't see much demand for them.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 13, 2012, 11:16:26 PM
I used to trade my NMCs on BTC-E, but they no longer seem to accept NMC deposits, so Im just piling them up and will donate them to the pool once we have feature that allows that. Then its Docs problem :).


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: marks1976 on February 13, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
If you use cryptoxchange they have NMC features to buy sell and trade nmc for usd or BTC.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 13, 2012, 11:49:25 PM
True, but this pool seems very nice and at least I won't lose out to hoppers since I mine 24/7 :)  BTW, what do you do with NMCs? Don't see much demand for them.

I sell them weekly over here. It only gets me about .10 BTC a week  :)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 14, 2012, 12:33:12 AM
Cool - thx!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Finny on February 14, 2012, 01:13:02 AM
Or you can hoard them in hopes they end up being worth more...

PS. WTF BLOCK??!?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: matthewh3 on February 14, 2012, 02:29:22 AM
Where do you find the instructions for joining using hashkill?  Also do you still have 0% fees and share the transaction fees?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 14, 2012, 03:17:06 AM
Has anyone else been noticing rejects due to duplicate work?  Never seen them before and now I get a whole bunch ???

Code:
[2012-02-13 19:11:24] Accepted 00000000.2619a155.ed384bea GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:11:38] Accepted 00000000.8838a80d.96c958d4 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:11:47] Accepted 00000000.214556b0.ba092fd5 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:12:00] Accepted 00000000.9975d582.daf96e80 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:00] Accepted 00000000.d297def1.91edf24f GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:02] Accepted 00000000.573f7c77.06d0fc66 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:06] Accepted 00000000.f2ee24c9.e04e32cb GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:12:17] Rejected 00000000.f2ee24c9.e04e32cb GPU 0 thread 0 (Duplicate proof of work)
[2012-02-13 19:12:30] Accepted 00000000.1bf59c07.3c7f586f GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:32] Accepted 00000000.e532e770.a05bf028 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:38] Accepted 00000000.08a9e3d4.924dda98 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:38] Accepted 00000000.394f1fd3.69766f8b GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:40] Accepted 00000000.37baeeb8.9ff952b9 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:12:44] Accepted 00000000.4bd24021.be829d7f GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:45] Accepted 00000000.3d2a6b7b.1c084ace GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:12:51] Accepted 00000000.ae0ffa31.6be7d934 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:12:58] Accepted 00000000.3a0ae6e9.a45bf70b GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:13:06] Accepted 00000000.7cec99e2.261908de GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:13:06] Accepted 00000000.f1876059.5632d07f GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:13:09] Accepted 00000000.e99d4580.8e65208a GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:13:11] Accepted 00000000.11d37c47.d18b4acc GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:13:19] Accepted 00000000.1a280744.98022220 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:13:22] Accepted 00000000.873664ef.0111697a GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:13:31] Rejected 00000000.1a280744.98022220 GPU 0 thread 0 (Duplicate proof of work)
[2012-02-13 19:13:50] Accepted 00000000.79fb7bad.6b775f75 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:13:54] Accepted 00000000.21e40877.39880863 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:13:57] Accepted 00000000.3f627669.a5e15dde GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:02] Accepted 00000000.da047662.f1b31d69 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:08] Accepted 00000000.becd9e94.675d42ec GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:13] Accepted 00000000.6030ccf8.7c393ded GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:15] Accepted 00000000.20edc5a5.2cec4640 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:16] Accepted 00000000.bbc6d677.ae2bd3b0 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:21] Accepted 00000000.c7e82506.3858ace8 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:24] Accepted 00000000.eafb918c.1429db5d GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:14:26] Accepted 00000000.7b59f5c8.9a141209 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:14:29] Accepted 00000000.0f9659d9.dcee6c6b GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:14:38] Accepted 00000000.48ac059c.177c87e6 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:39] Accepted 00000000.773bef37.282f8829 GPU 1 thread 2
[2012-02-13 19:14:39] Accepted 00000000.f7ef4cdb.7e200dc7 GPU 0 thread 0
[2012-02-13 19:14:40] Rejected 00000000.0f9659d9.dcee6c6b GPU 0 thread 0 (Duplicate proof of work)
[2012-02-13 19:14:51] Rejected 00000000.f7ef4cdb.7e200dc7 GPU 0 thread 0 (Duplicate proof of work)
[2012-02-13 19:14:56] Accepted 00000000.1d239039.73151bc4 GPU 1 thread 2

Just recently upgraded to cgminer 2.2.5 so maybe that has something to do with it ???


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 14, 2012, 05:20:35 AM
never seen that one D&T.  I'm trying to get 2 5870's to cooperate in windows vista...Bitminter is only recognizing one card, and I tried GUI miner, and it also only recognized 1. they both show up in hardware manager though.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 14, 2012, 05:22:28 AM
never seen that one D&T.  I'm trying to get 2 5870's to cooperate in windows vista...Bitminter is only recognizing one card, and I tried GUI miner, and it also only recognized 1. they both show up in hardware manager though.

Looks like it is a bug on cgminer 2.2.5 something to do w/ dynamic intensity (which I had on by accident).  Setting static intensity of 9 made the bug go away.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 14, 2012, 05:32:11 AM
Awesome work sir! Doing a fresh install of Vista and new drivers on my end, see if I cant pull 850 Mhash out of my pair of 5870's


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 14, 2012, 05:32:44 AM
BTW, what do you do with NMCs? Don't see much demand for them.

I sometimes trade NMC for BTC at Vircurex (https://vircurex.com/register?referral_id=329-482).

I slipped a referral link in there. :-)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 14, 2012, 08:27:42 AM
Id really like to see a block finding bonus for long blocks,  to lure some big miners and help us out when our luck is turning sour.
Now we are seeing the opposite, we are have having 2 or 3 (really) long blocks, and as a result hash rate goes down, making a bad situation worse.

If we could offer a bounty, we might see the opposite. And since anyone of us could win the bounty, it would hardly cost us anything.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Kain on February 14, 2012, 09:58:53 AM
Maybe once the block goes over 90%, the fees go to the solver?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 14, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
Finally!!!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Finny on February 14, 2012, 04:00:43 PM
FINALLY! Come on short ones!!!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 14, 2012, 05:28:02 PM
kjakman, our hero!

I just hope we never see a block like one I recall from sometime around October.  I think it was BitMinter's 18th block or somewhere in that range.  It took over 9 days and the CDF was 99.7% or 99.8%, if I recall correctly.  We only had ~30 GH/s at the time, though.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 14, 2012, 07:05:17 PM
Maybe if Dr. H gets some time he could implement a block hall of fame with the 10 shortest and 10 longest blocks on a CDF basis either just for BTC or BTC and NMC.

Alternatively could show it is shortest/longest block (nominal shares), shortest/longest block (time), shortest/longest block (CDF).

At same time how about "best lucky/unlucky streak" = max # of sequential blocks either all over or all under 50% CDF. :)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 14, 2012, 07:07:19 PM
kjakman, our hero!

I just hope we never see a block like one I recall from sometime around October.  I think it was BitMinter's 18th block or somewhere in that range.  It took over 9 days and the CDF was 99.7% or 99.8%, if I recall correctly.  We only had ~30 GH/s at the time, though.

Question: how come the last 5% of a block takes significantly longer to mine?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 14, 2012, 07:09:21 PM
kjakman, our hero!

I just hope we never see a block like one I recall from sometime around October.  I think it was BitMinter's 18th block or somewhere in that range.  It took over 9 days and the CDF was 99.7% or 99.8%, if I recall correctly.  We only had ~30 GH/s at the time, though.

Question: how come the last 5% of a block takes significantly longer to mine?

Because there is no max.  CDF isn't saying we "mined 95% or x%" of a block it is saying 95% of the time we should have solved the block by here.  Another way to look at it is at 95% CDF only 5% of blocks are longer/worse.  In the long run we expect the average block time to be 50% CDF and roughly half the blocks are shorter and roughly half the blocks are longer.  There is no set min or max though.

You could solve a block in 1 share or you could have a 11 million, or 100 million, or even theoretically quadrillion share block.  The odds start getting very unlikely (like 99.9999% CDF meaning only a 1 in 1 million chance of having worse luck).  Then again people win the lottery.  Lets hope we never run into a 99.99%+ monster.



Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: malavita on February 14, 2012, 07:29:58 PM
kjakman, our hero!

I just hope we never see a block like one I recall from sometime around October.  I think it was BitMinter's 18th block or somewhere in that range.  It took over 9 days and the CDF was 99.7% or 99.8%, if I recall correctly.  We only had ~30 GH/s at the time, though.

Question: how come the last 5% of a block takes significantly longer to mine?

Because there is no max.  CDF isn't saying we "mined 95% or x%" of a block it is saying 95% of the time we should have solved the block by here.  Another way to look at it is at 95% CDF only 5% of blocks are longer/worse.  In the long run we expect the average block time to be 50% CDF and roughly half the blocks are shorter and roughly half the blocks are longer.  There is no set min or max though.

You could solve a block in 1 share or you could have a 11 million, or 100 million, or even theoretically quadrillion share block.  The odds start getting very unlikely (like 99.9999% CDF meaning only a 1 in 1 million chance of having worse luck).  Then again people win the lottery.  Lets hope we never run into a 99.99%+ monster.




Wow! Thanks for the explanation, now I'm really scared :)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 14, 2012, 07:48:04 PM
For a more graphical representation of what DnT just said, have a look at this graph at Slush:
http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/graphs/
(scroll down to the bottom one)

Its a good illustration, but not to nitpick, but he shouldnt round to 100% as he does when you hover the mouse over the chart, because it never becomes 100%. Just really really close to it :)

Theoretically, the entire bitcoin network might not find a block for over 2 weeks; if difficulty wouldnt be adjusted to 1 in such unbelievably unlikely scenario, it might even continue for decades. Actually it might anyway, I dont know what happens to difficulty if no blocks were to be found for 2 weeks.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 14, 2012, 08:05:08 PM
Theoretically, the entire bitcoin network might not find a block for over 2 weeks; if difficulty wouldnt be adjusted to 1 in such unbelievably unlikely scenario, it might even continue for decades. Actually it might anyway, I dont know what happens to difficulty if no blocks were to be found for 2 weeks.

Hmm would suck if it created some race condition which caused the network to halt. :)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 14, 2012, 08:08:22 PM
Hmm would suck if it created some race condition which caused the network to halt. :)

#DIV/0!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 14, 2012, 11:51:32 PM
finally got my dual 5870 rig back up. now it's pushing 880 Mhash/s. Yays. Lets have a few more fast blocks!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: btc_artist on February 14, 2012, 11:57:00 PM
Theoretically, the entire bitcoin network might not find a block for over 2 weeks; if difficulty wouldnt be adjusted to 1 in such unbelievably unlikely scenario, it might even continue for decades. Actually it might anyway, I dont know what happens to difficulty if no blocks were to be found for 2 weeks.

Hmm would suck if it created some race condition which caused the network to halt. :)
Let's all stop mining for 2 weeks and test it. :p


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 15, 2012, 12:06:37 AM
Theoretically, the entire bitcoin network might not find a block for over 2 weeks; if difficulty wouldnt be adjusted to 1 in such unbelievably unlikely scenario, it might even continue for decades. Actually it might anyway, I dont know what happens to difficulty if no blocks were to be found for 2 weeks.

Hmm would suck if it created some race condition which caused the network to halt. :)
Let's all stop mining for 2 weeks and test it. :p

I like my coins, lets not!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 15, 2012, 12:07:43 AM
I like my coins, lets not!

But just think how many you could mine in the 2 weeks after that!


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 15, 2012, 12:31:38 AM
think of the naysayers that hate bitcoin already! they would be all over that saying its broken and evil! (more than they do now)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 15, 2012, 06:27:55 AM
Yeah, let's keep those BTC blocks coming!  3 in the last 15 hours = good! :D


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 15, 2012, 06:33:57 AM
Yeah, let's keep those BTC blocks coming!  3 in the last 15 hours = good! :D

+1


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: jake262144 on February 16, 2012, 11:18:43 AM
You just made me a BitMinter disciple, Doc:
http://i.imgur.com/L9IwU.png

That's with submit-stales enabled in cgminer.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: P4man on February 16, 2012, 08:26:03 PM
1   Fefox    216,087

WTF lol?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 16, 2012, 10:56:43 PM
DeathAndTaxes - very nice ideas on block stats. Added to my list. :)

The duplicate proof of work message is new. Only recently did I add support for reject-reason to the server. And also, only recent versions of cgminer supports reject-reason. Probably same with other miners. BitMinter client will support it very soon.

About block solving rewards, it is on my list, so it's coming sometime. :) Kain, I think the transaction fees going to the solver is today not enough, and in the future too much. But triggering block rewards at a certain CDF level is probably a good idea. Once donations are working I think a solution could be a "block rewards" cause you could donate to. The collected coins would be paid out to the user creating the next high CDF block. Either pay out the whole block rewards pot at X CDF. Or pay out a share of the pot, proportional to how high the CDF is.

Another thought is that it may be good to always have a block reward even for fast blocks. A block reward makes a block withholding attack more expensive.

never seen that one D&T.  I'm trying to get 2 5870's to cooperate in windows vista...Bitminter is only recognizing one card, and I tried GUI miner, and it also only recognized 1. they both show up in hardware manager though.

You may have to reinstall AMD drivers after installing the second card, and you may have to reboot after that. If that still doesn't fix it, maybe you need to use driver sweeper and then reinstall AMD drivers. When I added a 5970 to my system that already had a 6990 it got pretty messed up at first.

Where do you find the instructions for joining using hashkill?  Also do you still have 0% fees and share the transaction fees?

Yes, still zero fees and paying out the transaction fees.

I haven't tried hashkill, but you should be able to get any miner to work by connecting to mint.bitminter.com port 8332 (use port 80 if a firewall prevents you from using 8332). As username put USERNAME_WORKERNAME where those are your username and one of your worker names on BitMinter. As password you use that worker's password.

You just made me a BitMinter disciple, Doc:

Yay!  ;D Nice low stale stats you got there! :)

1   Fefox    216,087

WTF lol?

He's got the powaaaaah! :P

In other, totally unrelated, news: buying GPUmax shares for BitMinter seems to work fine now. Just be careful when you enter pool information that you use http://mint.bitminter.com:8332. If you don't include the 8332 port number it will attempt to run through port 80. Port 80 mining is slower and more prone to timeouts and other issues. Only use it when you have firewall problems, not to channel massive hash rates from GPUmax. :P


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: boozer on February 16, 2012, 11:10:48 PM
Hey!  Bitcoin found his first block... figured he would have done that sooner being the creator and all  :P


2012-02-16 11:50   79.88%   BTC   bitcoin


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DrHaribo on February 16, 2012, 11:20:08 PM
Lately we had a lot of bad luck, and I estimate we lost about 10% of users and workers, and about 8% of hash power. This always happens when we hit a streak of bad luck, and the variance has always been a constant impediment to the growth of the pool.

I'm thinking about two ideas to solve this, and I'd like to discuss them here.

The first idea is to join p2pool. I don't really know much about it, but I see what I thought was a 0.5% fee is (at least these days) an optional 0.5% donation. Turning the donation off I could hook bitminter up to p2pool and still keep this pool zero fee.

Thoughts? Possible issues?

Can we still build our own blocks as we see fit and put things like BIP16 votes in it? Will we get orphaned shares in the share chain, the same way bitcoin blocks are orphaned (invalid)? I guess it doesn't matter as this should happen equally for all p2pool users.

I have many ideas for building my own stuff for cooperation between pools. But if p2pool can do the job, it saves time I can spend on other features instead.

The other idea I'm considering is a "share market" where you can sell and buy shares (proofs of work). Yes, it would be possible to make it similar to GPUmax so you can sell hash power to other pools. But I'm thinking firstly about shares within BitMinter. If you are worried about variance you can sell your shares at a price below their expected value and get a steady income. Like mining PPS with a couple percent fee. Other users who don't worry as much about variance can buy those shares. The buyer is the one that gets a score in the shifts and gets paid when a block is generated. As long as the share price is below the expected value of a share, the buyer is likely to make a profit over time. In the middle of that I can take a fee on share sales to get some income for the pool.

Seems a nice idea in theory. However, variance could make it too risky to buy shares. This is basically what operators of PPS pools do, and sometimes their results leave a lot to be desired.

Any thoughts?

Hey!  Bitcoin found his first block... figured he would have done that sooner being the creator and all  :P

Way to go, bitcoin :D


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 16, 2012, 11:45:00 PM
The first idea is to join p2pool. I don't really know much about it, but I see what I thought was a 0.5% fee is (at least these days) an optional 0.5% donation. Turning the donation off I could hook bitminter up to p2pool and still keep this pool zero fee.

I would be interesting in this. 

One "issue" is p2pool has a short LP time.  It is about 10 seconds between LP vs 300 or so between LP for Bitcoin (w/ merged mining).  It isn't a problem but the differences likely mean we will lose some % of our native hashing power as people flee to more conventional pools.  The good news is even if we fell back to say 80GH/s native we would have the variance of a 350GH/s pool (p2pool aggregate hashing power w/ +80GH/s from Bitminter).

The next issue is p2pool uses dynamic share difficulty and currently there are ~560 difficulty (I have one rig testing out p2pool).  Now you can obfuscate that from users by having them submit only difficulty 1 shares and then hand p2pool difficulty shares on to the p2pool network.

The last issue is "accounting".  When we solve a block we get 50 BTC it is very easy, very simple for users to understand and track.  If we are part of p2pool when p2pool solves a block we will get a "cut" of each block split by PPLNS.  You then can split that revenue like you do now.  Hypothetically if BM had 80GH/s and p2pool had 350GH/s we would get ~11.5 BTC per block solved.

At 350GH/s we would solve a block on average in 4.4 hours (or roughly 5 blocks per day).

Quote
Can we still build our own blocks as we see fit and put things like BIP16 votes in it?

p2pool works on consensus just like Bitcoin.  In any breaking split (like BIP16) 51% of the network will determine the course of actions.  If 51% don't support BIP16 then if you attempt to process BIP16 transactions it will be seen as invalid by rest of network.  Essentially it works like a "mini" Bitcoin in that respect.

Quote
Will we get orphaned shares in the share chain, the same way bitcoin blocks are orphaned (invalid)? I guess it doesn't matter as this should happen equally for all p2pool users.

Yes you will get orphaned shares in p2p share chain.  I get about 7% orphaned.  However they don't cost you anything.  p2pool provides a stat called efficiency.  If you have a 7% orphan rate and p2pool has a 7% orphan rate then your shares as a % of p2pool is equal to your hashing power.

orphans only matter if you orphan rate is higher than p2pool.  Currently I run at about 102% efficiency so I actually am picking up a ~2% bonus by being more efficient with my shares.  As a dedicated pool you likely could ensure you have hundreds of peers and fast connection which reduces orphan rate.

Quote
I have many ideas for building my own stuff for cooperation between pools. But if p2pool can do the job, it saves time I can spend on other features instead.

I really think p2pool could evolve to be p2backbone being a high difficulty network which connects conventional pools, major hashing farms and sub p2pools (made up of independent small miners).  I feel any work towards improving p2pool is better spent than reinventing the wheel.


Quote
Seems a nice idea in theory. However, variance could make it too risky to buy shares. This is basically what operators of PPS pools do, and sometimes their results leave a lot to be desired.

I had considered running a pps pool which connects to p2pool.  I have been thinking of algorithms where the pps reserve would be "open market".  Essentially the pps fee would be based on buyers and sellers.

Still fleshing it out.  Now obviously this could work with a conventional pool also but honestly I feel p2pool is the future of mining.  It decentralizes control and only centralizes rewards.

Bitminter @ 150 GH/s has ~1.7% of the network hashing power.  IF the entire network ran on p2pool we would simply be paid 1.7% * 50 BTC = 0.85 BTC per block ... EVERY BLOCK.  :)  144 times per day, 52,560 times per year.

Now I doubt the whole network will move to p2pool but maybe someday 20%, 30%, 51% of the network is.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 17, 2012, 02:39:01 AM
Quote from: ZodiacDragon84 on February 13, 2012, 11:20:35 PM
never seen that one D&T.  I'm trying to get 2 5870's to cooperate in windows vista...Bitminter is only recognizing one card, and I tried GUI miner, and it also only recognized 1. they both show up in hardware manager though.

You may have to reinstall AMD drivers after installing the second card, and you may have to reboot after that. If that still doesn't fix it, maybe you need to use driver sweeper and then reinstall AMD drivers. When I added a 5970 to my system that already had a 6990 it got pretty messed up at first.

I did a clean install of vista and reinstalled the drivers. Not a big loss, as its only a mining rig ;)


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Finny on February 17, 2012, 03:23:42 AM
What is Fefox doing over there?  ???


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 17, 2012, 03:55:08 AM
What is Fefox doing over there?  ???
Did Fefox just 51% THE POOL?! lol.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 17, 2012, 02:58:10 PM
you gotta watch that fox, hes a sneaky one...


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 17, 2012, 03:07:33 PM
hey ZodiacDragon84, i have a 6990 and a 5870 on one mobo, the 5870 isnt recognized and im only getting bout 330 with it. i only installed the 6990 driver, if i install the 5870 driver, will it mess with the 6990 driver.(i know, why am i not running the two 5870 together, the 6990 wont work with this other board of mine) i wouldnt mind getting this other 5870 over 400 like my other one


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 17, 2012, 03:11:00 PM
hey ZodiacDragon84, i have a 6990 and a 5870 on one mobo, the 5870 isnt recognized and im only getting bout 330 with it. i only installed the 6990 driver, if i install the 5870 driver, will it mess with the 6990 driver.(i know, why am i not running the two 5870 together, the 6990 wont work with this other board of mine) i wouldnt mind getting this other 5870 over 400 like my other one

There is no such thing as a 6990 driver.  AMD has been using unified drivers for years now.  What exactly did you install?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 17, 2012, 03:13:22 PM
What is Fefox doing over there?  ???

He gpu maxed us ! ;D


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 17, 2012, 03:23:41 PM
What is Fefox doing over there?  ???

He gpu maxed us ! ;D

I would like to know why?  Has Fefox said anything to anyone?


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: Turbor on February 17, 2012, 05:00:30 PM
Yeah i know from IRC that he uses GPUMAX from time to time. I have no problem with that :P


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: nathanghart on February 17, 2012, 05:50:16 PM

I would like to know why?  Has Fefox said anything to anyone?

He was on IRC last night and still on now. I asked him if it was gpuMax and he said yes. Just trying to roll the dice and hit on some blocks is the impression I got. I don't want to speak for him though. He seems like a good guy and I'm guessing he will answer your question if you ask him.


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 17, 2012, 05:56:42 PM
im using 12.1


Title: Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) |
Post by: SgtMoth on February 17, 2012, 06:00:00 PM
what i mean is that i cant adjust any settings for my 5870 in the control center


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Isokivi on February 18, 2012, 09:28:35 PM
Omfg cdf's @ 94,62% and 99,69% anyone care to calculate the 1:X odds on this happening ?

..I sure hope Fefox rented the muscle to break em.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: teflone on February 18, 2012, 10:18:28 PM
I rented some GPUmax for bitminter last night..  what a gamble..

What a loss..  :(


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: P4man on February 18, 2012, 10:23:02 PM
I rented some GPUmax for bitminter last night..  what a gamble..

What a loss..  :(

PPLNS, so not all is lost yet. Maybe we find 4 blocks in 4 hours now :)

BTW, out of curiosity, how much did you pay per share?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: teflone on February 19, 2012, 04:04:28 AM
I rented some GPUmax for bitminter last night..  what a gamble..

What a loss..  :(

PPLNS, so not all is lost yet. Maybe we find 4 blocks in 4 hours now :)

BTW, out of curiosity, how much did you pay per share?

Its lost because the shares where submitted more than 10 shifts ago..

Is that not correct to assume they are lost? so to speak ?

I purchased them at 55

I also switched my PPS workers on gpumax to 55, and people are paying.. ? so wt hell..


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 19, 2012, 09:51:29 AM
Live stats for current NMC round is not displaying correctly. Working on that now.

Its lost because the shares where submitted more than 10 shifts ago..

Is that not correct to assume they are lost? so to speak ?

Yes, once the shares are out of the last 10 shifts, they won't get paid more. So if we didn't create any blocks while they were in the last 10 shifts, they were a loss.

GPUmax is fun to play with, but the shares are priced very very high, and you'll most likely lose money buying them.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 19, 2012, 10:50:35 AM
Live stats for current NMC round is not displaying correctly. Working on that now.

Now working again. Found a race condition in the resetting of round stats. Low chance of being triggered, but it was now. Working on fixing the code. Shifts and payments are unaffected, but block rounds not resetting properly can cause wrong statistics.

I had to parallelize the backend more when the first test runs with GPUmax uncovered some bottlenecks. The code is now extremely fast and efficient. The downside is that parallel code is very hard to test and debug. The codebase should stabilize now, though, as I believe it can take us well over 1000 GH/s without changes.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 19, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
Thanks doc. Keep up the good work!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 19, 2012, 08:10:05 PM
Version 1.1.1 beta of the BitMinter client is ready for testing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg758061#msg758061 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg758061#msg758061)

Could someone with a 7970 see if it runs ok?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: teflone on February 19, 2012, 11:26:49 PM
Are you sure the internet cable is plugged into the pool ?

Happens all the time.. ..    ;D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 20, 2012, 02:44:22 AM
Doc, please turn the block finder cheat back on.  Ethics be damned!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: waterboyserver on February 20, 2012, 03:11:54 AM
Has anyone been having issues with the rewards? I have mined for the past 5 days and have not received any btc or nmc in my account.

I just joined the forums, and I must say the new beta works far better than the previous version on my 7970; I reached only 680 MH/s before, now I can reach 833 MH/s on 1310 MHz core.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: teflone on February 20, 2012, 03:29:59 AM
This will be the worst luck this pool has ever been, correct ?  over 99.4 percent, and surpassed the original 99.4 with a lower diff  6.6 million, we're going on 7 mill..  :D

It has to be any second.. :P


Thinking of buying some more gpumax and throwin it on the fire for shits and giggles..   


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: malavita on February 20, 2012, 03:34:24 AM
@Teflone - how do you get on GPUMax?  I've sent my email in a while back and I have never heard back.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: teflone on February 20, 2012, 03:44:08 AM
@Teflone - how do you get on GPUMax?  I've sent my email in a while back and I have never heard back.

I sent my email in, and roughly 2 weeks later I got invited, make sure it didnt get into the spam folder of course :)

Its a neat concept, but in extreme beta, the purchases are all done manually by pirate, so it takes a while, but all this will be sorted out eventually

Im still not sure exactly why people purchase the power.. I can see at a point like this on bitminter.. its an interesting gamble on throwing some at it..  but its expensive 1.1 btc for 20,000 shares.

but its fun to try it..

So far I've lost far more than I gained fooling with it


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: malavita on February 20, 2012, 04:00:51 AM
Agreed, that's expensive - probably prices will drop as more ppl get on the service.  I'll send another email and see what happens - thx for the info!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 20, 2012, 06:50:43 AM
Has anyone been having issues with the rewards? I have mined for the past 5 days and have not received any btc or nmc in my account.

You should have both NMC and BTC in your account if you mined the last 5 days. Could you look in "my account" -> "transaction history" and see if it was paid out?

I just joined the forums, and I must say the new beta works far better than the previous version on my 7970; I reached only 680 MH/s before, now I can reach 833 MH/s on 1310 MHz core.

That sounds like things are working - thanks! :)

This will be the worst luck this pool has ever been, correct ?  over 99.4 percent, and surpassed the original 99.4 with a lower diff  6.6 million, we're going on 7 mill..  :D

It has to be any second.. :P

Yeah, as you can see at http://bitminter.com/stats/luck the worst so far was indeed, as you say, the 6.6 million block.

We need a much bigger pool to comfortably take this kind of block. I sure hope it ends soon.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on February 20, 2012, 11:15:45 AM
Atta way Doc: 4.63% and 2.52% BTC blocks found! The fast-block cheat has been activated! :D
Just keep'em coming...


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on February 22, 2012, 05:04:51 AM
Wow, it works!  I have a Dell Optiplex 755 in my office that doesn't get used much.  It has an x16 PCI-E slot, but no room to fit a 2-slot video card there.  However, there is also an x1 slot.  I used a soldering iron to melt away the end of the x1 slot to allow a Radeon 5850 to be inserted.  It's now mining away at ~315 MH/s!  :D

Here's a stock photo with an arrow pointing at the spot I melted away on the x1 slot to allow a Radeon 5850 to fit.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2cendck.jpg

To keep the pins inside the slot pushed out of the way so no plastic melted onto them, I broke and cut an old stick of RAM down to size and stuck it in the slot for the duration of using the soldering iron.  As a side note, I was surprised that an average pair of paper cutting scissors could cut the PCB of a RAM stick with decent precision.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 22, 2012, 09:51:25 PM
Nice hacking, Phantom :)

A couple quick updates today:

Miner 1.1.1 beta was released today as version 1.1.1 final. Most important update is supporting 7970 and other GCN cards. More details in the miner thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=31163.msg758061#msg758061).

Small website update. Removed all references to TradeHill (which is shutting down) and added a miner test page at http://bitminter.com/test (http://bitminter.com/test). Use it to test the miner on a computer without having to register or enter any name or password. Of course without this you don't get paid, so this is meant only for doing quick tests. I got the idea for this from a question on the bitcoin stackexchange (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2877/how-to-quickly-check-your-mining-speed).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on February 26, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
What's up, Doc? We're getting hit with some un-BitMinter-esque stale rates.
While 0.8% stales might blend into the crowd anywhere else, here it stands out like a nude in a convent.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: Turbor on February 26, 2012, 09:53:48 PM
 :D veni vidi vici


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: malavita on February 26, 2012, 09:58:14 PM
:D veni vidi vici

+1


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84 on February 27, 2012, 03:55:03 AM
What's up, Doc? We're getting hit with some un-BitMinter-esque stale rates.
While 0.8% stales might blend into the crowd anywhere else, here it stands out like a nude in a convent.

Could it maybe be my use of GPUmax occasionally?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 27, 2012, 06:50:17 AM
Not sure what caused those stales. But yes, GPUmax can give high stales, both from buying shares and sometimes also from sending your own shares through GPUmax.

That said, I have higher stales than normal right now too (0.2%). But it's only 15 stales, so it may not be significant.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on February 28, 2012, 01:14:32 AM
Any progress pinpointing the source of those stales?
Mint is hitting 1% stale rate at 103 GHash/s - it doesn't look like GPUMAX is to blame...

EDIT:: I've been getting slow LPs lately - maybe that's some sort of a clue.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 28, 2012, 08:04:39 PM
Server lagging a bit. I think that's the reason for the stales - sometimes getting slow response. Looking into it.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: malavita on February 29, 2012, 04:16:07 AM
Server lagging a bit. I think that's the reason for the stales - sometimes getting slow response. Looking into it.



Very low stales - great fix?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 29, 2012, 07:00:13 AM
Very low stales - great fix?

Not 100% sure what the problem was. I restarted the pool backend with different settings for the java virtual machine. May have to tweak that a bit further. Before restarting I saved a heap dump of the running backend - will analyze that today.

Anyway, it's running now with settings I have used before and it seems to be working very smoothly.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on February 29, 2012, 01:25:28 PM
Ummm... the pool has been down since 12:02 UTC.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 29, 2012, 01:54:08 PM
Sorry for the downtime. Looks like there is a problem with the pool backend. I'll start working on that in about 2 hours. Looks like it's the same issue that was causing slow reaction and high stales. I hope things will run ok with low stales until I get it fixed. At least the pool should not go down again.

Again, very sorry for these issues.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 29, 2012, 02:35:14 PM
Long post Warning:
(hit the scroll wheel down if not interesting in my ramblings on Bitminter, p2pool and a stronger/decentralized network)

BitMinter has been a great place to mine. Dr. Haribo is an awesome pool op and one I have no problems trusting with large sums of coins.  I have however finished migrating my farm to p2pool.  I joined BitMinter (way back when we had 30GH/s and I was 10 of them :) ) because I was concerned about the risk large pools represented.  I decided to put my hashing power where my mouth was and it has been an interesting experience.

It wasn't an easy decision as I have grown attached to BitMinter but I have moved to p2pool because I feel it is the best "weapon" against an increasingly centralized Bitcoin.   Small pools find it difficult to grow due to variance which keeps them small and thus they have higher variance (and the cycle repeats).  Even if a pool does grow there is always the risk it displaces a fallen giant, becomes a giant itself and the risk remains.  Thus I now believe that "medium sized pools" are unstable.  They either decline or grow and while the top few pools may change mining will be dominated by a dynamic of a few super pools and lots of tiny ones.

That being said there are issues which make p2pool non optimal for small miners so pools (hopefully smaller pools) have a role to play.  We talked about it briefly weeks ago but i believe a hybrid pool which uses p2pool as a back end is the missing link.  It is a symbiotic relationship.  The hybrid pool and p2pool gains significantly reduced variance from increased hashing power.  Both are now more competitive at attracting their respective "core audience".  If BitMinter sent hashing power to p2pool then p2pool (and BitMinter) would have an average block generation time of <4 hours.

It is the integration of small & medium sized pools which will move p2pool to the next level.   I believe large farms, hybrid pools and "subp2pools" can form a decentralized backbone.   This is necessary for p2pool to grow beyond that TH/s level and maybe someday provide 51% of the hashing power.

It looks like this guy has taken that idea and run with it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66202.0

Granted he only has 5GH/s (native) and a crude interface but I admire his spirit.  One thing i would point out is he enjoys about 70% less variance than BitMinter despite his tiny size.  Minters don't jump ship that wasn't the point. :)  I believe BitMinter could do it better using existing codebase and Dr. H experience as a solid pool ope.  I think BitMinter could grow to be one of the largest pools by offering a decentralized alternative for those who don't want to either use large centralized pools, get slammed by the variance of small pools or run their own p2pool instance.

A hybrid pool involves a few components
a) Running p2pool daemon (pool can provide it a static "vanity" address for payment)*
b) Issue getworks generated by p2pool to users
c) When miners returns shares:
   1) record diff 1 hashes (shares) for reward splits (same as now)
   2) forward share-chain diff hashes (currently ~600) to p2pool network
   3) broadcast full diff hashes (solved blocks) to Bitcoin network (same as now)

* p2pool may need to be either re-coded or integrated into existing pool backend to handle higher getwork volume.

When p2pool finds a block all miners payment addresses are already in the coinbase to payment is secure.  Bitminter would then take the sum it receives and split it among miners based on shares recorded in step b above.  This is very similar to how BitMinter pays out now.   Each day instead of having 1 or 2 blocks where it is the only payee in the coinbase it would have 6 to 12 blocks where it is one of many payees in the coinbase.

An example of the coinbase split can be seen here (this is the reward split in every hash worked by every miner):
http://p2pool.info/  (1p2pool is my vanity address, bitminter could advertise as say 1Minter :) )

I leave an open offer to assist with building/testing/experimenting with a BitMinterHybrid.  I also understand that it isn't something to be done lightly so a copy of the BitMinter code & database could be moved to a seperate "test instance" to test p2pool integration without interrupting the mainline pool.

I am willing to provide whatever is needed:
a) hashing power pointed at a server including remote access to the rig if needed.  No need for payment, no worries if it has 99% stales, instances crashes, etc.  All my rigs are 2GH/s (no you don't get the rack-mounted water cooled one :) ).  If we getting it working with one I am willing to donate all of them to provide further testing.
b) funding for servers, equipment, or anything else that is needed
c) coding work (while I can't take the lead I can provide assistance, bug checking, etc)
d) technical details on p2pool and optimizations (I have spent a large amount of time looking over the p2pool codebase)

If Dr. H doesn't want to be involved but would consider selling BitMinter code & database structure (not data) I would be willing to purchase it.  This would be an independent project, fully de-branded, not having any affiliation to BitMinter.  It would just provide a rapid template for building a 200GH/s capable hybrid pool.  I know he has worked extensively on the pool backend with little compensation this would be an opportunity to monetize it.   I will donate an extra 10% for Dr.H to offers as a block bonus to miners of BitMinter.

If Dr. H never wants to take me up on either offer no hard feeling.  If he gets the urge in a week, month, year the offer remains open.  I have enjoyed my time mining here.  I am sincere when I say BitMinter has the best pool op, a great layout, and an awesome community of miners.

Last Edit: 2/29/2012 09:54 - improved clarity of some parts, cut ramblings by 1.8%.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: malavita on February 29, 2012, 02:40:26 PM
You will be missed, D&T - lot to learn from you :)

Best!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 29, 2012, 03:20:42 PM
D&T, I agree with what you are saying about variance. I have long been thinking about how this could best be done, pools cooperating in a "pool of pools". I believe that can even things out so that people join pools for their features, not for their size (which is a self-reinforcing thing, causing the biggest pool so stay biggest no matter what).

About 51% attacks on bitcoin and securing against this, I believe what Luke-jr. is doing with expanding on the "getmemorypool" json-rpc interface can be a solution. Also for making pooled mining totally transparent. We've been discussing that in another thread. It would make it impossible for the pool op to hide blocks from miners (stealing the 50 BTC), and could also prevent a pool op from using your hash power in a 51% attack, or using your hash power to pool hop other pools without your knowledge. I intend to implement getmemorypool as an alternative to getwork on BitMinter and build some features around that to make mining more transparent and give miners more control.

I think "getmemorypool" with the expanded functionality will fix a lot of problems with pools. So what remains is the backbone or "pool of pools" which could enable a small pool with better features to beat a bigger pool. It could make variance a non-issue and finally let miners and pool ops focus on everything else.

So what about p2pool? I think p2pool has a couple of problems due to its reward system being based on a chain of proofs of work. I see two problems which is a reason I don't think p2pool is good for end users: A small p2pool, if I understand it correctly, is vulnerable to 51% attack on the reward chain. Someone with 300 GH/s today (a hopper proxy or pool?) could hook up to p2pool and cash out every bitcoin that is created. Everyone else would be mining for free, giving away all their income to the attacker. And a big p2pool, well, the difficulty on the reward chain would approach the difficulty of bitcoin, and make p2pool useless.

What about p2pool as a "pool of pools" backend? The 51% attack could be scary. The difficulty issue makes it useless for the smallest pools. And 10 second long poll means the server is doing long polls all the time. Things like x-roll-ntime become useless. There's no way around it, the server spends all its time pumping out new work to every single miner. You need much faster servers and use a lot of resources simply because of the way p2pool is designed. If you can't do it quickly enough, your stale rate on the reward chain will sky rocket, payouts will drop and the pool dies.

I have some ideas how stales on the reward chain could be reduced. But I see no way to prevent 51% attacks or p2pool creating very high server loads when used by a pool. Otherwise I would have switched already. I would love a tool to make variance less significant.

The only way I see how to fix this is by making a pool backbone that doesn't use a reward chain, but works a little differently. I have a lot of ideas for this. But I'm not sure how much point there is to working on that. I'm not sure if any pools would join a backbone. There isn't much interest for "getmemorypool" either.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 29, 2012, 04:12:03 PM
 I understand p2pool is different and has unique issues.  It will require more getworks per effective GH/s.  Also the hardest load on a server is at the LP (where every client needs to be updated) and it with short LP interval the server will be pretty continually loaded.  So if it is something you feel is uneconomical I understand.  You know better than me the load requirement a large pool can produce.   If you wish to sell the code I am still interested.  I believe it can be overcome (maybe naively) and if more powerful servers are necessary it may just require higher fees.  If not then either someone else will do it or I will need to start from scratch.

So what about p2pool? I think p2pool has a couple of problems due to its reward system being based on a chain of proofs of work. I see two problems which is a reason I don't think p2pool is good for end users: A small p2pool, if I understand it correctly, is vulnerable to 51% attack on the reward chain. Someone with 300 GH/s today (a hopper proxy or pool?) could hook up to p2pool and cash out every bitcoin that is created. Everyone else would be mining for free, giving away all their income to the attacker. And a big p2pool, well, the difficulty on the reward chain would approach the difficulty of bitcoin, and make p2pool useless.

I don't believe this is true.   The reward split is based on the share chain.   The coinbase of every hash contains the split of the share-chain.  This is why an LP occurs ~ every 10 seconds.   When a block is found by any miner it has the reward "hardcoded". 

Simplified (assume node has prior x shares)
a) node detects new share, LP issued.
b) node drops oldest share, adds newest share and tallies by address.
c) coinbase is constructed so that % of 50BTC = % of shares in tally
d) work (which has hash of merkle tree and coinbase locking in reward split) sent to miner
e1) when miner finds a hash < target for share chain it is submitted to network (goto a) updating reward split.
e2) when miner finds a hash < target for bitcoin the blocks reward split is already hardcoded into coinbase.

For example (current reward tab) shows what is put into the coinbase of every hash (until the next share is found and it is updated):
http://p2pool.info/  (current reward).

It is possible to fork p2pool (and sometimes that happens accidentally) but if you do so then any blocks found by the rest of p2pool network won't have any shares you find in their chain and thus any work you complete won't be accounted in the coinbase split.  An attacker which "51%" (which I believe is incorrect term) the share-chain can't alter the record of the prior shares.  They can cause a fork but the rest of the network will function as is.  Essentially they are solo mining.

Quote
And 10 second long poll means the server is doing long polls all the time.

There are potential solutions to increase the LP window and other issues (how to handle 1TH/s+, how balance share variance vs block variance, etc).  To avoid derailing the thread further I will save them for another discussion.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 29, 2012, 05:44:18 PM
I don't want to sell the BitMinter source code. It should be possible to hook up pushpool or poolserverj or something else to p2pool though. And there is already a pool running on top of p2pool.

When there is a split in the share chain, I would assume p2pool nodes will see multiple chains and go with the longest one, just like bitcoin does?

Imagine if I am an evil pool with 310 GH/s and you are the honest p2pool miners with 280 GH/s. I hop over to p2pool with my pool and start mining on top of your shares, entering the share chain. You then try to build shares on top of mine, but every time you do I create a fork. I only build shares on top of my own shares. My forks are always longer than yours, so you never get paid. I am now using 310 GH/s and getting paid for 590 GH/s. You get nothing.

How does p2pool prevent this? If it doesn't go with the fastest-growing fork or something similar, but just stays on the local fork whenever a fork occurs, then it would have forked into a whole bunch of solo miners a long time ago.

Also, I don't see a way to control the difficulty - it's based on the share chain.

Bitcoin block chain technology gives you a single advantage: decentralization (hard for bad guys to shut down). You have to pay for it with 51% attacks, high difficulty locking out small players, and in general very inefficient processing, especially with 10 second block intervals. In this instance I'm not sure if this is a good way forward.

If I'm wrong about 51% attacks, and the 10 second block intervals could be turned into 10 minutes, I'd jump on the bandwagon right now. ;) (The remaining problem, difficulty/variance, is what pools are there to fix)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: rjk on February 29, 2012, 05:46:02 PM
When there is a split in the share chain, I would assume p2pool nodes will see multiple chains and go with the longest one, just like bitcoin does?
My understanding is that miners can continue to mine on a split chain, and still be able to get valid blocks and payouts. They just have greater variance due to lower hash rate because of the split.

EDIT: I am however, not sure of the actual mechanics of a split - what causes them, and how they can be rectified if it were unwanted behavior. The splits I have heard of in the past I assumed were due to incompatible client versions and things like that.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on February 29, 2012, 09:39:07 PM
Quick backend restart. Fixed a memory leak and a couple other issues. The memory leak is what was causing the downtime today and the slow response which gave high stales earlier. Should be back to low stales, quick response and stable server. (knock on wood)

My understanding is that miners can continue to mine on a split chain, and still be able to get valid blocks and payouts. They just have greater variance due to lower hash rate because of the split.

Sure, it becomes like 2 separate p2pools. But I imagine all nodes end on the same fork after a while, to prevent degenerating into everyone solo mining by themselves.

Btw, awesome miner project you have. :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 29, 2012, 11:09:49 PM
Imagine if I am an evil pool with 310 GH/s and you are the honest p2pool miners with 280 GH/s. I hop over to p2pool with my pool and start mining on top of your shares, entering the share chain. You then try to build shares on top of mine, but every time you do I create a fork. I only build shares on top of my own shares. My forks are always longer than yours, so you never get paid. I am now using 310 GH/s and getting paid for 590 GH/s. You get nothing.

How would the good miners get nothing?

It does look like an exploit is possible but the exploit is non-economic or minimally economic.  51% attacks in Bitcoin are powerful because you can reverse prior transactions.  That isn't possible in p2pool.  Attacker could reject all other shares and only build on his chain but that only affects future shares.

There are a couple things that make that of limited value:
a) It will take 24 hours (at 51%) to get full value.  Attacker can't build the chain any faster and it will take 8640 shares to remove all prior "good" shares from the chain by attrition.  If attacker had been mining "good" (to avoid a noticeable instant doubling of hash power) then the effective hashpower of the attack chain would be half and it would take 48 hours to achieve full effect.  p2pool could keep a longer history to extend the full value time.

b) It is immediately obvious. all good nodes would see 100% reject rate.  The node currently doesn't have a "failsafe" but imlementing a max global orphaned in last x minutes check could make automated detection.  If global orphan rate spikes node stops issuing work and miners drop back to backup pools.  In the case of a hybrid pool it would drop to "conventional mode" (albeit with increased variance).

c) Attack has limited economic value as to achieve full value (200% pps) attacker would need to sustain the attack for 24/48 hours without any good miners dropping out.

d) Attacker can't work in secret.  In Bitcoin 51% attack since the goal is reversing a prior transaction an attacker can work days or even weeks in secret building an attack chain.  That doesn't work here because the value of any shares is "cashed out" when a block is found.  Every second attacker doesn't publish the attack chain is a second p2pool could find a block and make all the attack work worthless.

Still I am glad you brought it up.  A failsafe based on global orphan rate is a good feature to add to the node. 


Quote
Also, I don't see a way to control the difficulty - it's based on the share chain.
...
the 10 second block intervals could be turned into 10 minutes,

Difficulty can be controlled but it is linked to the LP interval.

Difficulty = (LP interval) * (p2pool network hashing power) / (2^32)

Right now p2pool uses a target LP interval of 10 seconds and has ~300 GH/s that gives it a share difficulty of ~690.

As a side note this is no different than Bitcoin.  Bitcoin targets a 10 minute block interval and has roughly 9.5 TH of hashing power (at the last adjustment) so it has a difficulty of ~1.3 million.

So (by consensus of hashing power) one could choose another interval and to support sub pools someday p2pool will likely need to have a longer interval.  10 minutes is far too long though as difficulty for a share would be a fraction of Bitcoin = p2pool hashing power.   Reverse way to look at it is p2pool lowers share difficulty by a) having less hashing power than bitcoind network and b) having a shorter interval.

A LP interval of 60 sec would require 6x the difficulty relative today for the same hashing power.   At say 1.5 TH/s that would mean a difficulty of ~21,000.  Very high but a tiny fraction of the block difficulty that pools currently shoot for (and the variance that comes with it).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on March 01, 2012, 07:16:33 AM
Yes, switching to solo mining if p2pool is 51% attacked is a good solution. You can detect it before losing much income, so it should be adequate.

Also, I'm starting to think maybe p2pool's problems with frequent block changes and high difficulty stem from copying bitcoin's block chain technique directly. P2pool has different needs. Maybe this can be fixed by doing things a little differently. Have to think about that.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: boozer on March 01, 2012, 11:21:59 AM
Long post Warning:
(hit the scroll wheel down if not interesting in my ramblings on Bitminter, p2pool and a stronger/decentralized network)

BitMinter has been a great place to mine. Dr. Haribo is an awesome pool op and one I have no problems trusting with large sums of coins.  I have however finished migrating my farm to p2pool.  I joined BitMinter (way back when we had 30GH/s and I was 10 of them :) ) because I was concerned about the risk large pools represented.  I decided to put my hashing power where my mouth was and it has been an interesting experience.

It wasn't an easy decision as I have grown attached to BitMinter but I have moved to p2pool because I feel it is the best "weapon" against an increasingly centralized Bitcoin.   Small pools find it difficult to grow due to variance which keeps them small and thus they have higher variance (and the cycle repeats).  Even if a pool does grow there is always the risk it displaces a fallen giant, becomes a giant itself and the risk remains.  Thus I now believe that "medium sized pools" are unstable.  They either decline or grow and while the top few pools may change mining will be dominated by a dynamic of a few super pools and lots of tiny ones.

<snip>

Although I have only been mining for a few months, I have tried many different pools and definitely agree with D&T, BitMinter is a great place to mine and Dr. H is an awesome pool op.  I got my first 5790 this week, and have 5 more on their way, along with 6 7970's, so my hash rate should improve significantly soon :)

After doing some short reading on p2pool, I really find myself drawn to it simply because of its decentralized nature.  It seems large pools with low variance are preferred by the common miner, but large pools seem to go against bitcoin's original design.  I still have a lot of reading/learning to do, but the decentralized aspect alone really draws me to p2pool.  However, until I get my rigs up and running and read up further on p2pool, I'll definitely stay at Bitminter as it is the best of the many other sites I tested (IMHO). 

I'ld also like to thank D&T for all the assistance provided to me (and countless others on this forum).  He really helped me get off the ground.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on March 02, 2012, 04:36:45 AM
Today a Radeon 5850 I ordered arrived, and I installed it in a workstation at the office that is only used 3-5 hours per week.  The rest of the time it is logged off.

I setup the BitMinter client as a service using instsrv.exe and srvany.exe.  The service is set to start automatically, so when the workstation boots up to the login screen, the service starts and it mines at about 315 MH/s.

When a user logs in, a login scripts stops the service and taskkill.exe shuts down javaw.exe (it doesn't shut down when the service stops, for some reason).

When the user logs off, a logoff scripts starts up the service again.

I was so excited to see that BitMinter worked as a service because Diablo was only giving me ~250 MH/s.  +65MH/s with BitMinter = Woot!


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: boozer on March 02, 2012, 03:52:41 PM
Damn these long blocks!  Think its time for things to swing the other way now  :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 02, 2012, 03:54:58 PM
Today a Radeon 5850 I ordered arrived, and I installed it in a workstation at the office that is only used 3-5 hours per week.  The rest of the time it is logged off.

I setup the BitMinter client as a service using instsrv.exe and srvany.exe.  The service is set to start automatically, so when the workstation boots up to the login screen, the service starts and it mines at about 315 MH/s.

When a user logs in, a login scripts stops the service and taskkill.exe shuts down javaw.exe (it doesn't shut down when the service stops, for some reason).

When the user logs off, a logoff scripts starts up the service again.

I was so excited to see that BitMinter worked as a service because Diablo was only giving me ~250 MH/s.  +65MH/s with BitMinter = Woot!

Is this in Windows XP by any chance?  I didn't think mining as a service is possible in Windows 7 as GPU are user level drivers.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on March 02, 2012, 06:08:41 PM
Is this in Windows XP by any chance?  I didn't think mining as a service is possible in Windows 7 as GPU are user level drivers.

Yeah, it's WinXP.  I'll try it on a Win7 sometime today and let you know whether it works.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: rjk on March 02, 2012, 06:09:34 PM
Is this in Windows XP by any chance?  I didn't think mining as a service is possible in Windows 7 as GPU are user level drivers.

Yeah, it's WinXP.  I'll try it on a Win7 sometime today and let you know whether it works.
Don't bother; it won't. Different driver architecture.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on March 02, 2012, 08:09:21 PM
Hmm, I always assumed it couldn't run as a service because it uses a window and/or systray.

Now I was hoping I could build "run as service" into the miner. But I guess it would only work on XP? Is it impossible for a service to use the GPU on later Windows OSes?


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 02, 2012, 08:33:00 PM
Now I was hoping I could build "run as service" into the miner. But I guess it would only work on XP? Is it impossible for a service to use the GPU on later Windows OSes?

That is my understanding.  Windows Vista and later GPU run as user mode drivers.  The switch from handling them as kernel mode (XP and prior) was done to improve stability of the OS.  Generally speaking it is a good idea.  A user mode driver crash can be managed by the OS "the ATI driver has stopped respond and was restarted" vs hard lockup.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: boozer on March 02, 2012, 10:00:58 PM
A driver level crash can be managed by the OS "the ATI driver has stopped respond and was restarted" vs hard lockup.

Boy I have I seen that enough when overclocking my personal PC for hashing... Very glad it didnt lock and force me to restart every time.  Saved me a lot of time, lol.  :D


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: jake262144 on March 02, 2012, 11:33:19 PM
Windows is a very interesting OS.
On one hand GPU drivers have been moved to the userland while on the other, menial tasks like font parsing are still being done at kernel level (consequence (http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/316553)).


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on March 03, 2012, 08:33:46 PM
Is this in Windows XP by any chance?  I didn't think mining as a service is possible in Windows 7 as GPU are user level drivers.
Yeah, it's WinXP.  I'll try it on a Win7 sometime today and let you know whether it works.
Don't bother; it won't. Different driver architecture.
I'm stubborn and gave it a try since it only took a few minutes.  As expected, you're correct; running BitMinter as a service on Windows 7 does not work.  It only works on Win XP.


Title: Random suggestion
Post by: boozer on March 04, 2012, 05:39:41 AM
I know you have the box to check to get notified about the latest blocks with a sound effect, but I would find it handy to be notified in other ways.....

Like being able to get an email or txt msg when BTC/NMC (able to choose as I dont care as much about NMC notifications) block is found, giving a summary of my stats, for that block or the last N shifts or something like (maybe being able to choose how much information one wants).   

Anyways, definitely nothing major, not sure how much it would be used, but I would find it handy.... probably email notification would be my preference. 

Again, not sure how many would want to use it, but I would, so I figured I'ld throw it out here  ;D


Title: Re: Random suggestion
Post by: WhitePhantom on March 04, 2012, 07:01:14 AM
I know you have the box to check to get notified about the latest blocks with a sound effect, but I would find it handy to be notified in other ways.....

Like being able to get an email or txt msg when BTC/NMC (able to choose as I dont care as much about NMC notifications) block is found, giving a summary of my stats, for that block or the last N shifts or something like (maybe being able to choose how much information one wants).   

Anyways, definitely nothing major, not sure how much it would be used, but I would find it handy.... probably email notification would be my preference. 

Again, not sure how many would want to use it, but I would, so I figured I'ld throw it out here  ;D
I think a similar idea regarding SMS notifications was brought up a couple weeks ago, but I don't recall whether it made it onto Doc's incredibly long list.  If an option for E-Mail notification ever becomes available, I will also use it.  Either way, I love BitMinter.

As a side note, nice jump in hashing power from your recent video card purchases, boozer.


Title: Re: Random suggestion
Post by: boozer on March 04, 2012, 04:36:32 PM

As a side note, nice jump in hashing power from your recent video card purchases, boozer.

Thanks!  I had a hell of time getting video cards, but they finally started coming in.  I spent a month on two 10+ 5970 deals which both fell through, one ended up being a scammer (found out before i lost any money), and the second was a guy on ebay that said he would sell me quite a few, he kept stringing me along and after about two weeks, he said "sorry" and that he was "all sold out".  Then, a guy on this board said he would sell me 3.... I paid him and a few days later, he said he actually only had two.  Then I got the two he had, and one of them had a bad core (although I have no complaints about this person, he handled everything very well.... just part of my card acquiring saga).  So finally I decided to give up on the 5970 and go half and half with 5970/7970 on my farm since I could by and receive 7970's outright....   So I ordered the 7970's, and with the six I ordered, the company offerred free next day air....  just over a week later, I still hadn't received anything.  I finally got a note from them that the cards were backordered and my order had been refunded.... sigh.   So, I finally bought the remainder off NewEgg and they should be here this week!  But man, I had hoped to have everything up and running at full capacity a couple weeks ago, lol.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: WhitePhantom on March 04, 2012, 05:01:23 PM
Wow, what an ordeal!  Glad to hear things are starting to work out for you.


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: DrHaribo on March 04, 2012, 06:10:28 PM
Thanks for ideas for messages, boozer. Added to earlier ideas on a general message system. It will be super cool, only problem is to find the time to make it. ;)

That's one hell of a hunt for GPUs too - good that it's finally coming together. :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: boozer on March 04, 2012, 10:12:49 PM
Thanks for ideas for messages, boozer. Added to earlier ideas on a general message system. It will be super cool, only problem is to find the time to make it. ;)

That's one hell of a hunt for GPUs too - good that it's finally coming together. :)


Yea, I was pretty upset at times looking for GPU's lol. 

I understand on the time to make that change... no biggy, just something that i would find useful if you ever do have the time  :)


Title: Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com [Zero Fee, Hopper Safe, Merged Mining,Tx Fees Paid Out]
Post by: ZodiacDragon84