Bitcoin Forum

Many of the community have invested in these chips at a time when AVALON had elevated themselves into arguably the top slot for BTC mining equipment. So far they have delivered 1 batch of chips to their "western" customer base and they were some 4 weeks overdue.

Their "No Bullshit" terms of sale have not been followed; sample/developer chips provided 4 weeks after payment of order didnt happen. Shipping of chips 9-10 weeks after payment didnt happen. They are clearly in violation of their own terms of sale and therefore must offer a full refund to those purchasers requesting such.

Whatever you have been told, their statement "No refunds" does not effect our statutory rights as consumers (under UK law and probably most other countries). I am a large shareholder in a group buy who have already requested a refund and have not received any reply. This is simply not acceptable from a company who has taken $millions of our money. Our group has realised that this 6+ week in delay and counting has effectively made the chips worthless to us.

If the majority of shareholders in group buys decide that they will be wasting more money for fabrication costs and having no chance of seeing a ROI, then perhaps, its time to demand a full REFUND from BitSyncom,  after all there are other companies which can likely deliver sooner and represent a more favourable investment.

I would urge all batch leaders to poll your group buy members and find out what THEY want, if a large number of group buy leaders request a refund, there will have to start addressing the issue. BitSyncom need to understand that they need to open up channels of communication and address this serious issue which affects hundreds if not thousands of consumers.

If this situation continues for much longer, the chips will not be worth their initial cost + development cost.
If you have any information about BitSyncom, full personal details,addresses (for legal communication), telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, Links to their personal media pages, personal future appointments at events (dates and locations), any info which will help to make contact, please post it on this thread.

Please refrain from posting 1 line, throw away comments, they probably wont help our collective cause.
Thanks for reading,

kev

A refund on it's own, wont fix the problem.  Some of us have paid for fabrication, and others have given up their jobs to build these devices.

I'm all for compromises too.  Yifu could just walk away from it all, and let the company fold.  That's no good for the community either.

Chips now + partial refund + 2nd gen chips at cost.

They won't fold they don't need your money anymore.

i feel your pain but...... right.. like they would actually do that

Yifu Guo failed to honour his own terms of sale.
A refund must be granted to those who request one.

cheers,
kev

I'm not expecting anything, other than some very late chips.

Just saying a refund on it's own does not let Yifu off the hook. How will he be able to show his face in public again, without making amends?

One acronym for you

BFL

It's not even sure that people who bought chips get anywhere near to zero loss.
That all is a big bang of shit comming torwards us and any announcement of new gen chips makes it even more worse.
The Hashrate will gain so significantly that we wouldnt be able to get our money back in 2 Years without paying any elcetricity bills.
There is a little timewindow between right now and beginning of October. Right in that time are the chips able to produce enough coins so you could be able to gain even your invest. But you will not be able because the chips wont even arriv ein 3 fucking weeks. Will then first assembled and you will just die in a fucking fire then because when you get it its 15 days left till your machine becomes totally useless.

This question in our groupbuy was answered differently. Some would like a refund, more seem to go through, but of course this might change with every day going by.

Best outcome for everyone!

Assemblers dont lose money on parts/equipment
Everyone gets a good deal
People's faith in Avalon is restored!

 The thing that's stopping me from asking for a refund is the collateral damage it might cause to Steamboat. I've already paid for chips and assembly and know that Steamboat has already spent money to acquire components in good faith.

 How can I ask for a refund under those circumstances, knowing that Steamboat is completely blameless for Avalon not following through ?

 It's not an easily rectifiable situation.

I think we might sue Yifu in U.S.A.
Yifu the Ass is an America, right?


The loss of chip buyers can be calculated by the PPS model. Someone please start a group lawsuit, and we can argue that Yifu should pay the loss based on PPS.

Thats true, but at the same time you risk a default if steamboat actually does offer anyone a refund.

In all deference to the builders out there the idea here is pretty simple. We need to hold these companies accountable for late delivery or in this case NON-DELIVERY. It makes the most sense at this point to get full refunds for those who ask for it as there is little or no direct communication and or tracking information available to the people who have purchased the chips.

If things are not delivered then they should be refunded full stop at this point there is nothing in what Avalon is posting that indicates where our orders are and when they even expect to be delivered. Sorry but at this juncture it is time to demand refunds. Failing a refund the community needs to hold Avalon accountable and I would suggest that we enforce a boycott on Avalon products and band together to spread that message across the whole community. There are certainly companies that deliver their products on time and as promised all we are asking is that Avalon lives up to the NO BULLSHIT policy. They didn't deliver on time, they didn't deliver the development chips on time and they have not provided any useful information to those operating the group buys, the ultimate customers, so we need to push back this is the right time. Their future sales hang in the balance here and if we have to shut them down by refusing to buy anything they produce then so be it.

Legal options are available but Avalon need to rectify the failure to deliver with a refund. They gave refunds to Batch 3 buyers the chips are no different. They are late they need to be refunded if we ask and I dare say many are asking. This is not the time to simply wait and give Avalon the benefit of the doubt. Lack of delivery means that they have a legal obligation to refund their customers. There is no escaping that given the promises they made regardless of them taking down the terms and conditions they posted. Refunds or Boycotts coupled with Lawsuits that is the pattern we need to pursue.

In the first place you were being deceived by the sweat talk of the Avalon chips by these promoters, they talk you into this group buy.

Demand Refunds and Boycott Avalon:

https://sites.google.com/site/boycotavalon/

I bought hundreds of gigahash worth of avalon chips.  If they conform to approximately to the most recent time-frame statements, I would not be too dissatisfied TBH.

We don't need to stir the pot.  Boycotts are one thing and perfectly okay, but if we sue Bitsyn our BTC will pay for his lawyers for a long drawn out trial. I'll bet all my bitcoins that lawsuit = terribly delayed chips

KEEP CALM
AND
CARRY ON

People will buy your preorder slots at more than what you paid at the moment. If you are dissatisfied, sell your chip orders.

Only buy from manufacturers that sell stock on hand. Like ASICMINER.

Sorry.

We need to stir the pot VIGOROUSLY.

He has failed to deliver as promised. He has failed to notify us properly as to the state of the chips and where there are and when EXACTLY they will ship.

Refund and Boycott. Best option right now.

The time in Bitcoin to sit passively back and wait for 2 more weeks and alike is gone.

BOLDING things in red and making large print doesn't mean you are right. In fact it really goes to the weakness of that position. Unfortunately most of us do not have the luxury of waiting any longer without properly being consulted on our orders.

No, let us be clear it is time for REFUNDS and BOYCOTTS of Avalon and their products. Here is calling on the community to stop these sorts of business before they can grow and get establish on our dime. We need to set the tone, we will not be sitting back and taking this sort of treatment and we call on Avalon to fix it now not make promises. There is a lot of power in our hands to ruin their business just as the have ruined a lot of our communities businesses with Non-Delivery. Let us use that power and put companies like this on our collective SHIT LIST and make sure they compensate everyone.

If we are not sufficiently compensated then we can discuss legal actions. In fact it would be good if the group buy leaders polled their groups about this and then we all work together to get representation and move a collective legal proceeding forward as soon as they FAIL to compensate anyone who asks for a refund. They are in breach of the agreement and they need to be held accountable do not let them placate you with after the fact promises. It is far too late for that they need to resolve the issue today not next Friday or 2 weeks later. It is time to get a refund and to boycott them until we do.

While I'm not defending Avalon's business system or customer support tactics at all.  I'm saying all the "OMG AVALON IS A SCAM" threads are mostly just pissed off users venting and/or fear mongering.

Clearly if people will pay a 10-15 percent mark up on avalon chips from some of the later orders there is still faith behind BitSyn.

Yifu gave us a time frame hopefully after scrambling to keep up with preorders and maybe giving chips to CN buyers.  But give it some time.  I hope to God they're not lying about having multiple ways/places to produce chips.

It doesn't matter what he has posted and promised. He is in breach of contract. Simple. Refund and Boycotts until he rectifies this situation. Anything less is a sign of weakness and allows him and Avalon to delay further. Sorry Avalon. Times up and we as a community need to grow some teeth and bite back. The time for sitting back and waiting for broken promises to be added to with more promises for delivery are over. The time was up 5 weeks ago when he failed to deliver on chips and development chips. Avalon needs to fix this with refunds now or suffer boycotts. We need to stand together. Backing down and giving him even one more day means we all run the risk of weeks and weeks and eventually months of delays in refunds and chip delivery. You missed the date your time is up it is now time to get REFUNDS and if compensation is not given BOYCOTTS should go into effect immediately. If you fuck with the community the community can fuck with your business. Simple as that.

It is a simple offering and warning to BFL, ASICMINER, KnC, etc you want to do pre-sales you will have to deliver on time or offer immediate compensation. At this point neither Avalon or BFL should be given any benefit of the doubt. They have breached contracts and must REFUND or suffer being Boycotted. It is as easy as that. I suspect that we all stand shoulder to shoulder on this no one is going to run roughshod over us anytime soon. Make Avalon an example is my thought and  it should be everyone here doing the same. That way the message is sent loud and clear.

Dear dddbtc,

I have Avalon chips on order.  I will sell them to you at cost.  Do you accept?

I don't disagree, but whose going to do anything, if the community wants to send him a message then perhaps someone should post a poll with a set of options for action. He would no doubt see the results and may react before any action is necessary.

If you don't disagree. https://sites.google.com/site/boycotavalon/ <--- put that in your signature or whatever. Start the debate and get Avalon to make right this situation. Simple steps.

Demand refunds.
Warn new bitcointalk community members off buying Avalon.
Send email and messages to Avalon until we get a resolution.
Start a refund ticket http://support.avalon-asic.com/ (http://support.avalon-asic.com/)

We are also doing this to get information. We want to know as group buy leaders where the fuck our chips are right now. Not some vague oh some are coming this way some are in customs and they are being released by the end of next week. Sorry that is BULLSHIT. The terms of the arrangement are notify us right now where the hell our chips are exactly. When will they be delivered? Also we reserve the right for full refunds and that is non-negotiable as they failed to provide delivery as promised. It is over. They need to resolve this to our specifications not theirs. We will be boycotting Avalon until everyone is adequately compensated and group buy leaders should be working with their members to determine what legal action we should pursue given that Avalon is in breach of contract.

If we put up a united front it will make a difference if we continue backing down and accepting the 2 more weeks ploy we are going to get even further screwed over. Stand up. Make noise and focus on disrupting any further product sales of Avalon until we get refunds or compensation. BFL customers should be doing the same and it is time the community stood against these people and held them accountable for their FAILURES.

Stand up demand a refund.
Rattle the cage make noise.

Affect their bottom line report your losses and let everyone know the RISK that is attached to Avalon. That way we put the right pressure on this company. Giving up is your right and rolling over and accepting the loss is as well but remember they clearly stated they still want to do business with the community and as such we can make enough of a stink that those sales will be affected until they agree to refund every customer that has asked for a refund. It is our legal right considering they broke the contract by failing to deliver on time. Pledge to simply BOYCOTT all future Avalon offerings and that is all we have to do get some action. Tell ten people NOT TO BUY AVALON and the message will get out.

Remember they are not the only chip in town. They are not the only avenue for our BTC. There is competition now. So a simple pledge to AVOID AVALON and I think we will see that we do have recourse and we will get a resolution. That is all the protection we need HARM their bottom line.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.msg2897706#msg2897706

And;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.msg2897295#msg2897295

Seem to motivate the remainng members of Bitsyncom if the last two days have proven anything.

+1 thanks Bitcoinorama. That is good info right there. Keep the pressure on guys and gals. We can beat this company into submission. Do not let them get away with this.

ive made such a poll, so far 50% wants a refund.. see my footer.

The choices of the poll are way too easy on Avalon it should reflect the fact they are in BREACH of CONTRACT. They have no legal foundation right now to keep any money for undelivered chips. Posting a poll like that needs to reflect the reality not concessions for Avalon. They have had their time to rectify this situation and deliver in a timely fashion. At this point they need to refund or face a full scale boycott coupled with lawsuits.

The have yet to answer the group buy leaders and inform anyone on where our chips are currently and have not told us when the shipping will arrive. That is unacceptable at this point. So now there needs to be aggressive action taken. REFUNDS, BOYCOTTS and LEGAL. That is the right stance and that is how we need to move forward. Anything less is giving them license to delay further. Don't give them any room to do this. Gut them till their bottom line bleeds RED

Our own group buy submitted a ticket 6 days ago. No response yet given that they stated they would respond to the ticket in 24 hours it is clear they are not fulfilling any of the contract obligations including their own promises to respond to support tickets.

The thing to remember with all these chips is that after they are delivered they also have to be built into mining devices so you are going to lose at least another couple of weeks before debugged/tested/reliable DIY builds roll out to the customers.

I would guess that many of the pop up DIY builders will also produce a lot of garbage when trying to refine their production processes.

These are so late and so under powered now compared to what is coming out while the chips are delayed....I just doubt they will all be worth building into mining devices by the time it is all sorted out.

waiting

Did you open a sales thread? I do escrow a change a lot owners over the last weeks.

Steamboat, Marto74, Burnin, BKKCoins et al. all have "plug and play" boards just waiting for the chips. Moreover, I believe Steamboat will have the chips on the complete, tested miners within 3 days of their arrival.

But yes, the longer they take to arrive, the lesser the chance to get any positive ROI.

I have not opened a sales thread yet.  I have 64 chips in your first group buy, by the way.  I would like to sell them, but I would also like to see the community who is completely screwed by this quit carrying BitSymcon's water.  Apparently, dddbtc thinks we should just shut up and not demand action.  I would love to convert him/her away from the dark side.  If not, I'd gladly accept payment as you cannot change everybody's mind.

dddbtc, agree to send me funds for 64 chips at cost to back up your claim or JOIN US.

feel free to pm me a change if you want.. there is one more free poll selection also..
shall we put: "i'm done take them to court"?

We already supported Avalon 5+ weeks too long. 5 chips, 50, 500, 5000, 50000 etc you get the picture. Really there is no excuse for not giving exact information on the chips location, correct shipping delivery times and when refunds will be available. Avalon has lost the support and the BIG PICTURE is they have broken their contract with anyone who purchased chips in the group buys minus a few of the initial shipments which were also LATE in breach of contract.

No need to lower yourself to talks of racism and violence, Avalon will get what they deserve based on the lack of trust..

... IF steamboat can show that they did EVERYTHING but failed due to avalon... yes

if they cant show that... steamboat scammed ya

thanks for those pearls,
maybe you would feel different if you had pissed away 20K on this cunt.
there are many people who are lined up behind me,
he needs to know that he cannot hide behind that smile.

Nothing about that comment is racist.


Steamboat is really working on miners for someone because I did CFD analysis on his heatsink. He wouldn't have had that done if it was all just a scam to take money and not deliver something to someone, at least. That someone may not have been the group purchasers or it may be the purchasers just not in the time-frame they were expecting.

That's what scammers do... come up with excuses... one after the next... then poof dissappear...

But this was done between me and Steamboat. I don't think anyone else even knew about it and I am not in his group buy. So, he had no need to make me believe he was producing something that he actually was not. He was/is producing something.

The phrase "chinky" is not racist !!?

It is, and it's not appropriate. I understand you may be pissed off with Bitsyncom's lies and fraudulent behaviour, but overt racism as well as violence is not on, and is a criminal offence in itself.

No. Using a word to describe someone, no matter how offensive is not equivalent to racism. Racism involves the belief that certain people are inferior on the level of rights, abilities, etc. simply because they are of a particular race and without any other justification. Calling a Chinese person a chink may be offensive to some people but it is not racism. I suppose your school teacher told you otherwise. I have noticed this a lot with the generations who were born in the mid-late 80s and beyond. You all have been told this is racism, it is not. Lift yourself up out of the brainwashing. Name-calling D.N.E. Racism.

Apparently it's open to interpretation, as in Scotland it's considered a racist term, and certainly the Chinese consider it so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinky

In either case it's offensive, as is being lied to and scammed.

That is not what racism is, dude. Sorry. It doesn't matter that a few people think it is racist ("indirectly racist", Wiki claims), there are definitions of words and logic. Just because you find a million people who think the sky is yellow doesn't all of a sudden make the color of the sky open to interpretation. Racism has always been about superiority or inferiority due to "race". Unless someone believes that no amount of using a word can make them racist. a word is just a word.

You're an idiot. It doesn't matter what some people think. Just because someone is offended by a word doesn't qualify it as racism. I mean, WTF don't you understand? What is and isn't racism isn't open to a god damned poll. You people on these forums are fucking dense, no wonder no one knows where the Avalon chips are.

Lets see if we can get this to sink in...



Webster

Amazingly, when I'm called a lugan, I'm not offended. Yet, if I were black and somebody called me a nigger, I would be, but it'll be okay for me to call one of "brothers" a nigger. Go figure!

This thread will be about cats in 5...4...3...

Finally, a thinker. I don't know what you think about me but I'm glad there are a few people on these forums that think. I get into these rants to separate the wheat from the chaff. You don't really know who anyone is until you push them up against the wall.

We have to do something about this... we can't be like the simpletons who sit around waiting on BFL for months. We need to "hold Yifu's feet to the fire" or he is just going to pull the same shady crap again.

I'm an idiot?? You naive fool.

I tell you what goto Scotland and call a Chinese national a 'Chink' in front of a policeman. Do keep us posted as to what happens when you break the law with a legally recognised racist slur.

http://www.bewallpaper.com/full/243495-animals-cute-kitten-photography-inspiring-picture-on-favim.jpg

Oh, and whilst you're at it, if you're going to quote Marrian F**king Webbster at me, do include the rest of the definition;

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

rac·ism noun \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
 
Definition of RACISM

1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination
— rac·ist  noun or adjective


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice%5B1%5D?show=0&t=1376241985

Definition of PREJUDICE

c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinky

In the United Kingdom, chinky (or chinky chonky,[1] in parts of northern England known as a chinkies, always in the plural) is a slang name for a Chinese takeaway restaurant or the meal that one buys from such a restaurant. Chinky is the adjectival form of chink and, like chink, is a highly offensive ethnic slur for Chinese and other Asian people.[2]

No one cares about backwards Europe who still believes in the divine right of kings. Europe is a sludge hole of collectivist and politically-correct filth. Come over here and get Piers Morgan while your at it and Obama - take him back to his mother country.

In any case, it's best not to get caught up with semantics at this point.

Stay focussed.  Maintaining a professional, business-oriented atmosphere is in all our best interest.

The last part I will agree with you on, keep him, we don't f**king what that slimeball back. He is possibly the most hated individual in the UK, god know who, or why,or how much has been spent to convince the US he should be given airtime, of for that matter, air.

No integrity whatsoever. Kind of like an ex-Lehman's bond seller.

Let the discussion of the Avalon Refund commence!

Someone is discussing the possibility of having Avalon ship us the Gen 2 chips instead but that would require extra work from guys like BKK, although the chips are supposedly very similar in design.

Have you got a source from where this is being discussed? I'd happily take gen 2 chips!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg2911421#msg2911421

Is "refund" really what you mean? IME, that implies that the chips will never be delivered, and you accept the same amount that you paid for them being returned to you.

The chips are not standalone devices. What about the hardware (boards) needed to run them? What about the time and funds that went into developing and purchasing and building that hardware?

A refund for the chips alone hardly seems satisfactory to me.

Immediate delivery + compensation seems better, but I'd be surprised to see that.

I think most buyers wouldn't be made whole without at least a ~2x refund--and that doesn't even account for missed opportunity, just cost of equipment. So...I'm not sure that even qualifies as being "made whole", after all.

I have asked for a refund 7 days ago via Support Ticket as Avalon is in breach of contract. http://support.avalon-asic.com/support <--- feel free Group Buy Leaders to join in the calls for a refund.

Others should do the same and until we are compensated properly our group buy members will not buy or support Avalon products. DIY effforts like BKKCoins etc we do support but once they are complete we intend to maintain our boycott and be very vocal about their lack of communication and failures to deliver both relevant information and the product to the customers on time. We are also working on legal actions with other group buys at this time.

That's nice, but you seem to have ignored my point.

What were you planning on doing with your chips? Did you spend some other money preparing to use them some way? Was that money also refundable to you?

What I intended to do with the chips is not the point.

The point is Avalon is breach of contract.

If others have invested more in production they have to do what is right for them. I suggest that asking for a Refund even if you have chips on order is a prudent ploy should you need to use legal means to get compensation later especially given there is no evidence the chips exist or are being shipped currently. Asking for a refund 4 weeks from now is not going to help anyone especially those who have already put money into production of units because they are going to be left holding that bag if they continue to wait.

I suggest group buys that have no such ties use all available pressure to force Avalon into the following situation:

1. THEY IMMEDIATELY COMMUNICATE THE LOCATION OF THE CHIPS AND SET A HARD DATE FOR DELIVERY.
2. THEY IMMEDIATELY RESPOND TO REFUND REQUESTS.
3. THEY IMMEDIATELY OFFER COMPENSATION.

There is no benefits to wait for Avalon to deliver chips that are already 5+ weeks late. I suspect they want people to adopt the posture of hope and pray so that further delays and lack of communication can be milked out for weeks and possibly months. Sorry but the risk here is not that they won't deliver. The risk is they will fail to refund everyone or COMPENSATE them properly. Simply sitting back and waiting is the wrong response. Look at BFL customers for what happens to those who wait quietly and patiently for delivery? No we need to set a clear tone and that is we want refunds / compensation, we will boycott your company until we are all satisfied you have made good on a resolution and given everyone responsible for group buys a full briefing on where the chips are now and when they will ship.

So who wants to begin telling role to role based story telling.  I think we need to not play total victum here.  We don't want any gov to use this as another tool to ban the Bitcoin. With all due respe to the Pirate40 investors.  Shit could have been handled different.

For one don't make shit worse and sell chips.  The least amoun of paper trail the easier it is to drop a hammer if needed.
Use your voice. Social Media, Personal websites etc. Don't allow the media to smear crypto of this go's epic. Talk about the Open Source  beauty that has been lost.  If you are like me at this point wr would rather have the chips.  This is a mile stone project.  DYI Miners = Pure Open Source.  What other online community could have done this shit!

NO yiFU Avalon
---------------------
One Week GPU Miner Standoff

Lawyers and the lot are going to cost money if this go's to legal action.  I say we group fund some guns. For one week w e pool our "Extra" Rigs.  Rebuild and recall the fleet of torn down GPU miners.  Take photos of our rigs with some FU Avalon scribble.  Then after that week pool the mined btc for fighting back.

Lots can be done but I do not believe idle hands will win

Who is to say that the refunds will be timely.

B3 refunds option newsletter when out with a deadline to commit to a refund a month ago. 
To date the best of our knowledge indicates that only 1(!) :o i.e. only a singular refund has been processed.

If it is this slow for a refund process that they have acknowledge and are prepared for, how long do you think it will take to issue refunds that they weren't preparing to offer?

Whatever floats your boat.

When social media and other things fail we are left with the legal action as a last resort. I am pretty sure if we stir up enough of shit storm Avalon will cave well before the lawyers get sunk in but we need to make sure that hammer is hanging there right over his head just in case he tries to move sideways away from basic obligations like INFORMATION needs to be given now, REFUNDS/COMPENSATION need to be addressed now and that means we have to be proactive as you say but you have to use every tool in the arsenal not just keep to the shadows.

I'm saying that what everyone planned to do with the chips is very relevant, because it means 100% refund for the chips is insufficient compensation.

Indeed.

What do you mean by "no such ties"?

Good points here.

No one said they would or would not be timely, the situation has to be we FORCE Avalon to be timely. If they want 1000s of people clamouring for refunds and screaming boycott then drag this out. Do not give us information today on the chips and when they will ship. Wait for the momentum to build to a point where your company becomes so toxic no one will buy anything from you. That is what we can offer them if we stick together. If we push they will cave.

Group Buys like ours who have luckily avoided buying all our components and have asked for an immediate refund because of Avalon's breach of contract and not delivering the 20 developer chips and not delivering on the main order. If you have no such ties to production then maybe you need to join with us in Refund actions and Boycott calls. We still hold out hope for SebJu, Terrahash, Burnin, Alten, BKKCoins and others who are already vested in production get their chips in a "timely" (yet in breach of contract) fashion but the remaining people need to stir up a huge shit storm and hold their feet to the fire on this. We will not let them wiggle out of their legal obligation. When they breached the contract Avalon became responsible to refund anyone who has asked.

As for compensation BEYOND the chip price I am not sure that is something you can accurately calculate but sure ok let us go after them for that as well.

I can't vouch for your group buy leaders I can only communicate that our group buy is of one mind on this. We all agree and we all want our refunds now and we will boycott Avalon.

I suspect that MOST of the group buy leaders are like us concerned with the community and want to make Avalon pay for their lack of communication and breach of contract but the anon buyers in those group buys need to step up and help the leaders out and let them know what they want. I suggest the refund, boycott and legal action pathway is something we can all push and force on Avalon. Waiting passively will not get you any closer to a resolution.

Puulllease, you don't think law enforcement browse this forum, or know this is going on?! They must be pissing themselves at the amount of idiots that do no research into supposed 'investments' and risk unsecured funds on unknowns. Of course Law Enforcement is here, we damn well know media is!

On the note of refunds not being enough because of manufacture costs or roi... with all due respect, as much as it pisses us off, that isn't actually anything to do with bitsyncom and is a secondary objective.

Right now It's about cutting your losses...
would you rather lose 100% of your investment?
or only 50% of it? easy choice.

If you buy stock and it goes very wrong, you can sell it for a loss, and make a better decision next time to make up for it.. if you hang in there and it hits 0 points.. game over.

Additionally, I think it's been mentioned, but I'll reiterate, demanding a refund is the first step
You cannot possibly take the additional step of suing for manufacturing costs or other damages until you've demanded a refund.
And no judge is going to sympathise with you if you show that you hung in there silently because you just so badly wanted to make a heap of money

Also... again a re-iteration... you can always pull-out if by some miracle the company does turn around and satisfy us by shipping the chips and/or making some sort of offer. You don't have to just choose 1 road to walk down, you can walk many all at once.

In fact it is connected. I mean you can get 50% refund for the chips but what to do with the chips then? You would have to buy assembly for 100%. So in fact you only got a refund of 25%.

Its not the same like avalon giving refund for a complete miner.

We don't need to lose 100% or 50%. They failed to deliver on time as promised. They need to refund everyone at this point to be brutally honest I highly doubt anyone is going to see chips on Friday this week. I doubt highly they will get them next week either. At this point they have failed to deliver. They need to simply refund anyone that wants a refund at this point and they should be boycotted till they do.

Boycotting will do nothing, they will still sell to the next fool as greed blinds, they need to be investigated for why they have been caught out being dishonest on several occasions.

Pre-mining, splitting up, receipt of goods end of June, purposeful delays, selling of stock to other parties, and other shady dealings.

There has been no reason at any point to deceive anyone on this forum. Real delays are understandable, but when you lie and then people connected to you post photographic proof confirming deceit, and when they are too stupid to clean their pre-mined machines of dust and of the preconfigured pool info, then something has to be done as this is not what you agreed to in any no bullshit terms and it's theft, be it of currency or of value of the return of your items promised by a specific date and sold to you as an investment. The law is very clear to you about this.

Pursuing this won't harm Bitcoin, it will clean it up. Turning a blind eye is what allowed Lehman's to abscond as long as it did and cause the largest financial crash in history!

+1000

Doing nothing is no solution and accepting that nothing can be changed is really not how I see it going down this time. BFL and Avalon have lost a lot of future business already and with enough of a push we could help them go out of business. Don't kid yourself there is leverage here we just need to use the right fulcrum. The times are changed there are more than two players in the marketplace one can easily avoid BFL and Avalon this coming generation of chips. You would be surprised what can be accomplished given the right organization.

Lolololol and WHAT are the chances?!;

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323585604579006880143449754.html

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272061.msg2914728#msg2914728



Looks like Robin Sidel of the Wall Street Journal is hungry for blood since being made a fool of!!!

He will campaign to get your money back after being taken for a chump!!!

Contact him NOW!!!

The Wall Street Journal
TECHNOLOGY
Updated August 11, 2013, 10:11 p.m. ET

Regulator Examines Bitcoin Practices
New York Issues Subpoenas to Firms Tied to Bitcoin.
By ROBIN SIDEL

New York's top banking regulator has issued subpoenas to roughly two dozen companies associated with bitcoin as part of a wide-ranging inquiry into the business practices of the fledgling virtual-currency industry, according to people familiar with the matter.

The subpoenas, from the New York Department of Financial Services, seek information on a range of topics, including antimoney-laundering programs, consumer-protection measures and investment strategies, according to the people..

Subpoenas were sent to firms backed by high-profile Bitcoin investors such as Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss.

The department, led by Benjamin Lawsky, also plans on Monday to issue a memo expressing concern that virtual-currency companies aren't complying with the state's money-transmission laws. As a result, the state is considering setting new guidelines that are specifically aimed at virtual currencies.

"We believe that—for a number of reasons—putting in place appropriate regulatory safeguards for virtual currencies will be beneficial to the long-term strength of the virtual-currency industry," wrote Mr. Lawsky in a draft of the memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Companies that received subpoenas include some of the best-known names in the nascent industry, including Coinbase Inc., BitInstant and Coinsetter.

Executives from Coinbase and BitInstant couldn't be reached for comment on Sunday. Jaron Lukasiewicz, chief executive of Coinsetter, said in an email that the information request is "an opportunity for companies in our space to open up a much needed dialogue with regulators."

He added, "They'll quickly find that most companies are working to legitimize Bitcoin and want to build bridges that help regulators understand and support these financial innovations."

The state agency also sent subpoenas to companies backed by high-profile Bitcoin investors, including venture capitalist Marc Andreessen, and twins Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, who are best known for battling Mark Zuckerberg over ownership of Facebook Inc. FB -0.10% Mr. Andreessen and the Winklevoss brothers couldn't be reached for comment on Sunday.

Bitcoin, the best-known of a crop of virtual currencies, are created in a computer process called "mining." They also can be traded on a number of exchanges or swapped privately among users. Most bitcoin are traded on a Tokyo-based exchange called Mt. Gox, where one bitcoin was valued Friday at roughly $102.

A subpoena is a legal demand for information and doesn't signal wrongdoing by the recipient. The New York banking department sent the subpoenas late last week, according to the people familiar with the matter.

The subpoenas come amid heightened scrutiny from state and federal regulators into the world of virtual currencies. Because virtual currencies aren't backed by a central government like traditional ones are, regulators are worried they can be used for illegal activity or can violate laws involving money transmission.

Federal regulators earlier this year issued guidelines placing virtual-currency exchanges under the same comprehensive antimoney-laundering requirements as traditional money-transmission businesses such as Western Union Co.

Although a growing number of bitcoin exchanges have registered their businesses with the U.S. Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, they have moved more slowly at the state level. In part, that is because the process of getting a license in each of the 48 states that require them is complicated and lengthy. In addition, states also typically require companies to put up a bond that could run as much as several million dollars.

New York has been one of a handful of states aggressively examining the industry. Mr. Lawsky has assembled a team to assess the issue and already sent a warning letter to BitInstant, a New York company that allows customers to buy and sell bitcoins.

"If virtual currencies remain a virtual Wild West for narcotraffickers and other criminals, that would not only threaten our country's national security, but also the very existence of the virtual currency industry as a legitimate business enterprise," according to the memo.

The round of subpoenas also are aimed at gleaning information about how the companies are dealing with individual investors who may be attracted to the novelty of virtual currencies, but may not be sophisticated enough to understand the risk associated with them.

Write to  Robin Sidel at robin.sidel@wsj.com