Bitcoin Forum

I'm very much looking forward to being able to trade FX, equities and commodities with Bitcoin and especially to having brokerage accounts that allow me to deposit and cash out in BTC. There isn't much out there yet, although I have high hopes for TorBroker and others.

So I wanted to start this thread to discuss some of the already existing services and share my experiences as I try out some of the ones already out there, as well as any new ones that might launch soon.

The objective is to find a professional brokerage that will allow aspiring and experienced traders to make a living trading, while remaining in control of their funds and bypassing the traditional banking system. The absolute ideal would be the combination of

1. A pro-level brokerage like https://www.interactivebrokers.com or http://www.saxobank.com/ that allow you to trade a full range of financial products, use leverage and provide real time market data and order placement, charts, etc

...with...

2. The ability to instantly deposit and withdraw in BTC, giving you the control over your own money that bitcoiners are used to.

...and for bonus points...

3. The ability to trade bitcoins for other currencies as easily as with https://www.mtgox.com/ or https://www.bitstamp.net/


So I'll attempt to rate all services that I try out on a 1-10 scale for the above 3 characteristics.

===================
So far I can see here (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Financial), the following:

*FNIB, professional level forex trading in USD, EUR and other currencies. Account opening and settlement in BTC.
*LiteForex, deposit and withdraw bitcoins to your LiteForex account.
*1Broker Advanced forex and CFD trading. Bitcoin denominated account only.
*Bit4X Trade Forex market (including Gold and Silver) with Bitcoin denominated MetaTrader account (no fiat conversion)
*ICBIT (info), Use bitcoins to buy and sell futures contracts for Gold, Crude (WTI), and the BTC/USD
*TorBroker, a gateway for Bitcoin users to the stock markets of the mainstream world.DOWN

º	Web	Broker Score	BTC deposit/withdraw score	BTC trading score
1	https://1broker.com/	6	10	1
2	https://icbit.se/	4	9	7
3	http://www.firstnationalib.com/	-	-	-
4	https://www.bitfinex.com/	-	-	-
5	http://www.bit4x.com/	-	-	-
6	https://www.kraken.com/	2	9	8
7	https://forex-metal.com/	-	-	-
8	http://www.plus500.com/	-	-	-
9	https://xcfd.com/	-	0	-
10	http://torbrokerge7zxgq.onion/	3	6	1

Update: TorBroker IS OFFLINE
-----
I'm going to start off reviewing TorBroker, just because I like the whole "Silk Road of brokers" vibe. I'll be testing it over the next few days, will try to do a few trades and report back to you here.

You can check out some articles on TorBroker here:
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/torbroker-anonymous-finance-and-trust/
http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2013/04/torbroker-silk-road-of-stock-brokers.html

..and you can see the endless discussion over whether they are going to run away with your funds here at their official thread, here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159237.0

So far not too impressed with TorBroker, although the site owners claim to be working on substantial improvements and if and when they are implemented, I will update my review and their score.

Broker Score: 2
Only US equities available, no real time prices or orders, no leverage, no charts.

BTC deposit/withdraw score: 6
Depositing funds was fast, they appeared as "incoming" within seconds of being sent and were in my balance from 1 confirmation. Withdrawal made, funds arrived within hours. Not instant, but pretty fast. Small withdrawal fee.

BTC trading score: 1
No BTC trading available yet.


...I will redo this review in a month or two to take into account any improvements/new features.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tCGBz4Uh8cs/Ugj4hY9iuEI/AAAAAAAAAhs/bSs8IUTlZfM/s320/TorBroker+2.JPG

Simple interface. Real time and charts via Google Finance. Order input clunky. No real time orders.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8en5nlXDKiU/Ugj4hJPIprI/AAAAAAAAAhk/73fgQCXV4FI/s1600/TorBroker+1.JPG

Next up: https://1broker.com/     

https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=886 (https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=886)  (click on the referral link if you are feeling generous...)

I intend to test it all intensively over the next week.
Here's the official thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123492.0


Broker Score: 6
Decent, but limited selection of FX/commodities/Equities. Good spreads. Good leverage (x20 commodities, x200 FX, x5 BTC). Prices with 1 min delay. Transparent and low commissions.

BTC deposit/withdraw score: 10
Both deposit and withdrawal are extremely fast. Bitcoins go in, bitcoins come out on demand. Small withdrawal fee (BTC0.005).

BTC trading score: 6
Offers x5 leverage for Bitcoin trading. Bid-Ask approx 0.7 $ ...but you can only withdraw in BTC, so it is good for trading but not for simple exchange.


Very nice BTC/USD trading platform.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-N0O1gj16yRU/Ugi_EDE8oZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/BxMeTN8LCj0/s1600/1Broker+BTC.JPG

Decent selection of FX currency pairs. Decent spreads.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HulXqg-UGTM/Ugi_FZ1YneI/AAAAAAAAAg8/ujutN8otVM4/s1600/1Broker+FX.JPG

A small selection of tradeable equities
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uqZQ5pZ2jdw/Ugi_GIZ9qlI/AAAAAAAAAhI/k1SbYIr8nJ0/s1600/1Broker+stocks.JPG

Now trying out https://icbit.se

Main thread here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0



Broker Score: 4
Very few instruments so far. Mostly Bitcoins, LTC and S&P500.

BTC deposit/withdraw score: 9
BTC in (wait for a few confirmations), BTC out instantly.

BTC trading score: 7
A lot of options, a complete order book, several bitcoin futures.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Tq4DJVQwfY8/Ugor8kh_NFI/AAAAAAAAAiA/Tw1xI7XjPEM/s1600/ICBIT+1.JPG


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eZoJxxfFx9w/Ugor9GFaPuI/AAAAAAAAAh8/TXEniN3vjfw/s1600/ICBIT+2.JPG

It would sure be nice to have oil (WTI/Brent) as a tradeable product on one of these brokers... I've been doing some gold trading these days, mostly on 1Broker... but more FX and commodity products would be very welcome.

ICBit had it at one time.
 - https://icbit.se/CLG3

There were few contracts traded so after expiration no new contract issue was offered.   The spread was regularly pretty wide but due to volatility there were times when using that contract as a hedge against crude was affordable.

Tor Broker doesn't look very safe. They can run away with your BTC any time and they will probably never get caught.

Hi flix

We've recently added more than 350 ADRs representing international stocks. We expect to add hundreds more this or next week. Leverage is also in the pipes.

Great. Will check today and revise score accordingly.

I appreciate all the homework! There are so many new options popping up now that it is hard to keep track. 

Here are some things that we have been doing last month in equities... and that when they start offering real-time orders and leverage, we will probably do through TorBroker. Unfortunately, it's not there yet.

http://rockflowertrading.blogspot.com.es/2013/09/equity-swing-trading-strategy.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ARr44aqsmJQ/UkbKATJLsOI/AAAAAAAAAk4/1fORWGYqUPQ/s400/JCP+RGR.jpg
+-
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m8c_Efe0E7w/UkbKCANrpdI/AAAAAAAAAlA/U1qvE4YRZCs/s400/SKH.jpg
+
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wLy8DqJSb3g/UkbKDVK5SjI/AAAAAAAAAlI/aijRHbFjt7M/s400/TESO.jpg
-
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MgvgehRZM-s/UkbKEDsr3cI/AAAAAAAAAlQ/vBimEIAqV_o/s400/YHOO.jpg
+

I haven't forgotten about the broker reviews, although I've been pretty busy, I'll try to do http://www.liteforex.com/ next week.

good work you done very informative and hard work keep this up for all and yourself

Forex-Metal accepts Bitcoin for trading.

https://forex-metal.com/

I'll take a look.

This is a nice representation of the major bitcoin businesses to date.

Whovever created this. Nice job!

that first picture is really helpful thanks for posting that

MCXnow.com is a major player that is missing in this roundup.

Thanks for the post, I'll be coming back on updates.

If someone wants to learn to trade Bitcoins, (and with exchange is better)
what is your first choice as a suggestion?

Do you want to learn manual trading or bot trading?

Those and similar broker just use BTC to transfer the money and the balance you get is USD/EUR/whatever fiat, ...

Only Bit4X has balance denominated in Bitcoins.

Actually any, or both
The issue is obtaining info for any of this.

Should I use Bitstamp or Mtgox or other?

I use mainly btc-e at the moment. I work on trading software and I am looking for a collaboration.

What type of collaboration are you looking for?

I could use lots of skills. Trading skills would be cool. But also various coding skills. I mentioned a few coding tasks here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79088.msg3268989#msg3268989

I have been trading BTC these past few days.. using several platforms, but mainly https://1broker.com/ due to simplicity and leverage available. I have to say.. it's great fun to deposit-trade-withdraw as you like.

Obviously the spread for BTC is nowhere near as tight as it is for EURUSD or other markets...

An interesting technical analysis tool for Bitcoin trading:
http://satoshibox.com/528142b54c347b624e0041a7

Im interested in information about http://www.bit4x.com/-

https://1broker.com/   will not be available in future times.

Dead link.



Dead link.

Any reason why? I quite liked it...

I see...

Don't forget CoinMKT:

https://coinmkt.com

Trade 7 different crypto with USD

It's going down should I sell and buy lower? Please help does anyone anticipate it will go down lower?

Update... TorBroker has been offline for a while. I haven't seen any announcements.. but the old address definitely doesn't work anymore.

Update... https://1broker.com/ no longer allows Bitcoin trading, reduced trading score accordingly.

Over the past few months several major banks have published reports on Bitcoin... I thought it might be useful to share them here.

*Bitcoins and Banks (UBS) [FULL REPORT] -March 2014  http://satoshibox.com/533ac0c34c347b79fa008355 (http://satoshibox.com/533ac0c34c347b79fa008355)

*The audacity of bitcoin: Risks and opportunities for corporates and investors (JP Morgan) http://satoshibox.com/533acc834c347b64ed008354 (http://satoshibox.com/533acc834c347b64ed008354)

*Bitcoin: a first assessment (BoA-Merrill Lynch) Dec 2013  http://satoshibox.com/533ad0e54c347b64ed008355 (http://satoshibox.com/533ad0e54c347b64ed008355)

*All About Bitcoin (Goldman Sachs) March 2014 http://satoshibox.com/533ad1e14c347b79fa00835c (http://satoshibox.com/533ad1e14c347b79fa00835c)

I wonder if people still trade the highly volatile BTC/USD pair?

More volatility => more (potential) profit.

http://venetfx.com/  seems to be quite Bitcoin friendly as well.


http://venetfx.com/wp-content/themes/minibuzz3/images/logo.png
http://venetfx.com/static/bitcoin-support.png



http://venetfx.com/bitcoin/

I've been testing Kraken.. quite a bit of fun. Will update with review.. funding/withdrawal speed, etc.

https://www.kraken.com/img/logo.png


BTC withdrawal/funding was very fast (10 mins approx). Trading is focused on cryptocurrencies, so I would consider this an exchange rather than a proper brokerage platform for mainstream financial assets... Nevertheless I was very impressed by the platform. Hopefully in the future they can add more instruments, currencies, etc.. to really fullfil their "Forex meets Bitcoin exchange" tagline.

I also liked their user verification process.. more streamlined than the old Mt.Gox system, and allows some functionalities without having to upload a lot of documents (although it is required to be allowed to fund/withdraw via wire).

Bitcoin trading was very efficient, low spreads, nice liquidity.

Broker Score: 2

BTC deposit/withdraw score: 9

BTC trading score: 8

It looks like ICBIT had a major website overhaul... nice to see that they are growing... as mature derivatives markets will be a major requisite in making Bitcoin stable.

https://icbit.se/

when interactivebroker add bitcoin, maybe as a passthru of bitstamp or so, I will declare we have finally landed on wallstreet. How difficult would that be / what are they waiting for ?

Well.. BBG did add a news and price feed, that's pretty impressive:


BITCOIN NOW ON BLOOMBERG
http://www.bloomberg.com/now/2014-04-30/bitcoin-now-bloomberg/

Is there like a forex version except you deposit in bitcoin

yes.. that is what this whole thread is about.

I'm starting to hit the limits of what you can do with 1broker.com, as evidenced by 2 messages I got today:


The first when I tried to short EURUSD with BTC3 and 200x leverage.


The second when I tried to withdraw BTC3 and the profit from the trade that I was actually able to carry out.


These limitations are obviously a big problem to any pro daytrader... as it means that you can only use this broker for small trades.

I will be trying out http://bit4x.com/ to see if they can take more volume... although from their website I'm guessing that withdrawals/funding will not be as automatic and user-driven as with 1broker... we'll see... As usual, I'll share my experience with the community here and score the site for the 3 usual categories.

http://bit4x.com/css/images/logo.png

It seems like a shady company, they dont list any contact information as to where their company is registered, and their domain is registered with a proxy. Also that their ToS basically lets them steal all your money at any time if your trading "reduces our other clients legitimate trading experience". And really, how hard is it for a exchange to be able to cover a 3 btc withdrawl?

They seem pretty responsive to e-mail, etc.

Regarding this:

I messaged support.. they replied telling me that new funds would be moved to the hot wallet within 1 hour... and I have already withdrawn my BTC.. so pretty good service.

Interview with FXOpen: One of the First Foreign Exchange Trading Platforms to Embrace Bitcoin
https://blog.blockchain.com/2014/06/19/our-interview-with-fxopen-one-of-the-first-foreign-exchange-trading-platforms-to-embrace-bitcoin/


http://www.fxopen.com/


FXOpen now accepts payments in Bitcoin
http://www.fxopen.com/News.aspx?id=3db3223b-f1a9-4a39-8031-1d8aa40f0220


Trading Accounts in Bitcoin, Litecoin and Gold.
http://www.fxopen.com/News.aspx?Id=b949212c-6b14-435b-baa6-529d8e09a122

I realy hope you can trade forex pairs on crypto based acounts on Fxopen soon.

btw, you can have e bonus, too: http://www.fxopen.com/News.aspx?Id=8d12a6d7-c216-431c-8a06-93aa689a1bc8&agent=836159


there are scam acusations for xCFD and Bit4x; and Bit4X represant on this forum doesn't seam to be a nice guy.

I'll try out xCFD for forex trading in Bitcoin; only secure option for this until now seams to be 1broker

Btc.sx is an FX style trading platform that we run. It runs from a broker model and executes orders out to market via BitStamp for settlement. It allows leveraged trading without the complexity of margin trading and the management of margin.

this thread seams abandoned. have a look at mine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=716530.0

Thanks to capoeira for pointing out:




I'll open accounts on these 3 and test them for deposit/withdrawal speed over the next week.

sabrokers and traders-trust didn't even respond my email

there is also https://novafxtrading.com/

I completely agree with you,bitcoin is getting more and more popular and trading platforms must now allow to deposit/withdraw with BTC

thanks for ur information. I like it, very nice trading platform.

It sounds a lot like you are just using the bitstamp API to send orders to bitstamp. Why couldn't your customers work directly with bitstamp?

The only problem i see with using these Fx brokers for bitcoin, is the spread is outrageous! I find you are better off using BTC-e with the MT4 client for serious trading.

Now if you know of another exchange that allows trading using the MT4 client and allows shorts, please let me know.

FxOpen....it's actualy the provider for BTC-E's MT4 and liquidity: https://www.fxopen.com/News.aspx?Id=8d12a6d7-c216-431c-8a06-93aa689a1bc8&agent=836159

you can get profit for that?

Thats pretty much what we do. The main offering over sending customers directly to bitstamp is leverage. Second of all we allow people to go Long with bitcoin instead of requiring USD (and the associated delay and hassle of getting it onto the exchange)

I don't understand, both the questions

what are the spreads like at FXOpen? for bitcoin

it is 100% the same as MT4 from BTC-E...it's even the same server...It is not a CFD. You trade on BTC-E

https://www.darwinex.com/

..they don't take Bitcoin (yet) but they have a very interesting feature:
https://www.darwinex.com/en/leaderboard

They rank traders according to performance and give a public record of their profitability. Also allowing investors to replicate the strategy of successful and consistent traders and paying these traders a % of the profits of those copycat investors...

that's not actualy ontopic isn't it? or did they make any declaration regarding Bitcoin deposits?

Now they have!
https://twitter.com/Darwinexchange

The point is that we still don't have what this thread started looking for:

1. A pro-level brokerage   2. The ability to instantly deposit and withdraw in BTC  3. The ability to trade bitcoins.

...and it seems like the way to get it is to nudge those platforms which offer at least 1 of those features towards accepting the rest.

That means either asking the Bitcoin exchanges to add other trading options (unlikely- I don't see Kraken or Bitstamp offering leveraged EURUSD trading anytime in the future) OR asking the existing brokerage platforms to accept Bitcoin deposits/withdrawals... but Saxo or IB are too large to listen... however a start-up might be more reactive... somebody like Darwinex might be very open to accepting Bitcoin.

A corporate agreement between Darwinex <-> BTCJam would be amazing for traders. One rates trading strategies, the other rates creditworthiness... the combination would be a perfect springboard for newbie traders to demonstrate a track record and at the same time obtain financing.

Another option would be for 1broker.com to add more options as they have been promising to do for so long... They recently increased limits:  https://1broker.com/?c=blog&id=16 (https://1broker.com/?c=blog&id=16)

But they are still a long way from offering a wide range of options for stocks, currencies or commodities.

actualy Fxopen atends all 3, the problem is the big spread on BTC deposits/withdraws. but they have crypto dominated account, which eliminates this problem. but you can't thrade forex on them



couldn't find nothing beside your post

https://www.fxopen.com/ looks promising, but last back in July when I registered and tried them out a bit they seemed extremely clunky and made me jump through a lot of hoops. I guess I'll have to take a closer look.

Especially at this:
https://support.fxopen.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/694/714/deposits-via-bitcoin
https://support.fxopen.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/696/718/withdrawals-via-bitcoin



https://1broker.com/ in contrast lets you register in under a minute, so for small amounts it's great... but obviously very limited.

It seems that FXOpen waits 7 confirmations for BTC deposits (ok, I can live with that) but takes up to 24hrs for withdrawals... which seems to indicate that there is manual approval.

Since becoming used to automatic, user-controlled BTC withdrawals (eg: Kraken, localbitcoins, Bitstamp, 1broker...) it becomes a lot harder to accept that you have to ask permission to get your money....

I guess it's still a lot better than making SWIFT or SEPA wires as in the old days...


Oh, yes forgot to mention this:

That's pretty ridiculous... 10%+ spread. I suppose that is what you meant..

yes, withdawls can take some time, since they have a reputation to lose. once they even called me to confirm withdrawl.

registration process is standard for Forex brokers.

yea, the spread for the conversion is inaceptable. but as I said, you don't have to convert. they have crypto-accounts

Well you're in luck because there is an event that I'm going to at the NYC Bitcoin Center that will be helping us learn how to trade and swap exposures using bitcoin.

I believe they will be holding this event on October 30th at 5:30 pm. BTC

Contact me and I can share the page that I found this information on

First Global Credit recognizes the value of Bitcoins so they can be used as margin to finance trading in other markets. The customer’s Bitcoins are not sold to go long or short a market, they maintain their position in Bitcoins and take a position in another market as well.
Trade

• stocks
• stock market indices
• Electronically Traded Funds
• Precious metals

Sign up for a free paper trading account to test your strategies, then when you are ready start a trading account.
January 2015 is commission free on the Active Trader Platform.
www.firstglobalcredit.com

Now that Neteller takes Bitcoin... there-s a bunch of forex platforms that take neteller as a funding option which are now just one step away from Bitcoin funding...
http://www.coindesk.com/neteller-bitcoin-deposit-policy-reversal/


http://media.coindesk.com/2015/03/e1N2WJz.png

wow nice. but no option to sell Neteller for BTC?

Thanks for your good shares ! I will have a look into it

There's also a growing number of Bitcoin binary option brokers:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Binary_options

These can be an interesting alternative for short-term trades, especially if they are #NoAccountNeeded.

However I am still waiting for smart contract Bitcoin binary options. These could be extremely useful for long term trades as they have the potential to eliminate counterparty risk.


This is how I imagine it would work:

Thank you for this thread. From my read, the only place to buy stocks online reliably seems to be 1broker.  This is a bit frustrating because of the limited number of stocks they offer.  Does anybody know of a service like TorBroker or what happened to TorBroker?

This all sounds like trying to buy legitimate securities from someone on the street corner.  Im skeptical as to whether you'd actually own anything or if these exchanges are bucket shops where you're just betting on the price of stocks.  Why would you need to buy stocks anonymously?

I think that question could be posed for almost anything sold in the BTC and fiat currency world. There are many reasons to buy stocks anonymously; everything from th e libertarian argument to the desire to do illicit activities. As this thread demonstrates, there is a market for this, so you can't fault people for trying to supply the market.

isn't the libertarian argument an illicit activitie? lol

hahaha.... one could definitely make that argument. I guess I meant some people may lean toward BTC based activities to create less reliance on "institutionalized" and heavily regulated entities.  Essentially an argument for greater autonomy with less government interference. That alone isn't necessarily an argument in favor of illicit activity, but rather of self governance.

Here's a nice list of brokers that take Bitcoin:
http://allfxbrokers.com/brokers/deposit-options/bitcoin

The number keeps growing!

There's also a very large number that are just one jump away, since they accept Neteller and Neteller takes Bitcoin as a funding option: http://allfxbrokers.com/brokers/deposit-options/neteller

this is a list who shows broker where you can trade Bitcoin (CFDs) though. but I'll check them out since some of them could also be accepting

I don't like this broker. They are low trustable.... 

No, it's a list of brokers that take Bitcoin as a deposit option. Check the link, there's a lot of useful info there. (I suppose that means they also allow you to withdraw with Bitcoin, but I have not checked).

Here are another two, which reportedly use BitPay to process Bitcoin deposits:

http://www.fxprimus.com
https://drivewealth.com

It is now nice to trade with some Bitcoin and that is because the value is not even rising and that is the solve that you can now make some profit with it and that would be nice for Bitcoin.
But you have to do it nice otherwise it wont be possible to make any profit.

You cant now sell it with Bitcoin and that is because the value is not even that high and that have to change because the value have to rise soon so we can earn profit.
But now you see also that there are more people that is now trading to earn a little bit profit and that is nice.

yes just sell it and buy for cheaper one's every time there is a difference in the value that is enough to have gains on it trade it and keep your investment rolling to grow.

so I contacted Avatrade, a known broker which is on the list. they only offer a CFD, no BTC deposits/withdraws