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Title: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: ProofOfLambo on January 18, 2018, 09:39:34 AM Among the variety of coins, I would make at least these groups:
- One is sh*tcoins (no innovation, should not even be there) - Privacy aimed coins - Monero, ZCash, Electroneum, Onion, Verge,... - Non really anonymous - Bitcoin,... - Non-anonymous token and code coins - Ethereum, Neo, Xem, ... - Not really cryptos - Ripple What do you think will do the governments as far as regulations or even bans with each of the groups? How may the value be affected? Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: CBESH on February 03, 2018, 06:40:17 PM I am also interested in this topic. Does anyone want to weight in? What happens when they start regulating?
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: avikz on February 03, 2018, 08:02:03 PM I am sure governments are not making such groups of anonymous and non-anonymous cryptos. As long the cryptos are decentralized, all are same to any government. So if a government wants to ban crypto currency, they will ban it all and not as per the group made by you. Governments will usually want to control their own economy and since cryptos are decentralized, they can't control them. So they will ban all crypto if they want to regardless of anonymity.
Also the price will have a hit if a big country like India, US, China, South Korea bans cryptos completely. The majority of the crypto users are from these countries and if these governments ban it, we will see a drastic drop in the market cap as well as in the price. So it is going to affect big time. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: CBESH on February 03, 2018, 08:07:19 PM I am sure governments are not making such groups of anonymous and non-anonymous cryptos. As long the cryptos are decentralized, all are same to any government. So if a government wants to ban crypto currency, they will ban it all and not as per the group made by you. Governments will usually want to control their own economy and since cryptos are decentralized, they can't control them. So they will ban all crypto if they want to regardless of anonymity. Also the price will have a hit if a big country like India, US, China, South Korea bans cryptos completely. The majority of the crypto users are from these countries and if these governments ban it, we will see a drastic drop in the market cap as well as in the price. So it is going to affect big time. I agree, the thing that makes crypto valuable is its ease of use... sort of and the fact that it can be converted for "real fiat money" (oxymoron). But isnt what makes USD valuable is the military force that backs it up? If the Governments penalize people for using crypto the price could get real ugly.. JMO Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Murloc on February 03, 2018, 10:21:30 PM The realy cares that much about tracking the privacy transactions. Usualy it is used by governmental lobbyists to get more money for different useless activities aiming to track the money. No one will need it untill the amount of the illegal transactions will be over 20% of all crypto volume. Every country in the world have its own private money and it is called cash.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Tankdestroyer on February 03, 2018, 11:01:09 PM Among the variety of coins, I would make at least these groups: I am not sure to what the government would do for each and every one of them but what I am sure of is that they will try to regulate them all, not just ripple. For shitcoins though, I think they will decide sooner or later to ban it's usage since it has no real world use after all. If government started regulating most of the cryptoworld, I am sure that the volatility will be affected.- One is sh*tcoins (no innovation, should not even be there) - Privacy aimed coins - Monero, ZCash, Electroneum, Onion, Verge,... - Non really anonymous - Bitcoin,... - Non-anonymous token and code coins - Ethereum, Neo, Xem, ... - Not really cryptos - Ripple What do you think will do the governments as far as regulations or even bans with each of the groups? How may the value be affected? Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Hydrogen on February 03, 2018, 11:33:12 PM - Privacy aimed coins - Monero, ZCash, Electroneum, Onion, Verge,... What do you think will do the governments as far as regulations or even bans with each of the groups? How may the value be affected? I'm not certain its possible for large scale privacy to exist in an era where surveillance networks like echelon and carnivore are hardwired into ISP's and virtually every data transmission is logged or recorded. Even if deep packet inspection may not yet be implemented perfectly, I seem to remember reading about TOR not being the most secure protocol, years ago. Quote INTERCEPTING TOR TRAFFIC TO SNIFF PASSWORDS OR OTHER DATA Onion routing works by relaying communications through a network of systems in various places. These systems are generally volunteers. Your connection travels through various nodes(it's encrypted), until it reaches the exit node, and then the location(ie the website you're connecting to via port 80). This unencrypted connection on the exit node is what we will be exploiting. http://www.ubertechblog.com/2011/03/intercepting-tor-traffic-to-sniff.html Quote A Researcher Used a Honeypot to Identify Malicious Tor Exit Nodes The Tor network, used everyday by thousands of people around the world to surf the web anonymously and to circumvent internet censorship, depends on its volunteer "operators," the people who run and maintain the network's final set of servers, also called "exit nodes." Whoever controls these exit nodes can potentially see the traffic coming out of the Tor network, and, if they want, spy on it. In an experiment dubbed BADONION, an independent security researcher that only goes by the pseudonym "Chloe" devised a clever way to find out who, among these operators, is maliciously sniffing and intercepting traffic. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mgbdwv/badonion-honeypot-malicious-tor-exit-nodes I've been out of the loop for years now. Maybe these exploits have been patched by TOR devs. Or maybe not. I would be interested to know the answer to this. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: CBESH on February 04, 2018, 01:10:11 AM - Privacy aimed coins - Monero, ZCash, Electroneum, Onion, Verge,... What do you think will do the governments as far as regulations or even bans with each of the groups? How may the value be affected? I'm not certain its possible for large scale privacy to exist in an era where surveillance networks like echelon and carnivore are hardwired into ISP's and virtually every data transmission is logged or recorded. Even if deep packet inspection may not yet be implemented perfectly, I seem to remember reading about TOR not being the most secure protocol, years ago. Quote INTERCEPTING TOR TRAFFIC TO SNIFF PASSWORDS OR OTHER DATA Onion routing works by relaying communications through a network of systems in various places. These systems are generally volunteers. Your connection travels through various nodes(it's encrypted), until it reaches the exit node, and then the location(ie the website you're connecting to via port 80). This unencrypted connection on the exit node is what we will be exploiting. http://www.ubertechblog.com/2011/03/intercepting-tor-traffic-to-sniff.html Quote A Researcher Used a Honeypot to Identify Malicious Tor Exit Nodes The Tor network, used everyday by thousands of people around the world to surf the web anonymously and to circumvent internet censorship, depends on its volunteer "operators," the people who run and maintain the network's final set of servers, also called "exit nodes." Whoever controls these exit nodes can potentially see the traffic coming out of the Tor network, and, if they want, spy on it. In an experiment dubbed BADONION, an independent security researcher that only goes by the pseudonym "Chloe" devised a clever way to find out who, among these operators, is maliciously sniffing and intercepting traffic. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mgbdwv/badonion-honeypot-malicious-tor-exit-nodes I've been out of the loop for years now. Maybe these exploits have been patched by TOR devs. Or maybe not. I would be interested to know the answer to this. Wow this is good. Is chip mixer better than the other anonymous coins? The study you quoted was an unencrypted Tor network. How about Monero.. Verge or DeepOnion? I would like to get your opinion on these coins efficacy. Are they really anonymous or are they likely to be exploited? Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: tweetbit on February 04, 2018, 01:35:44 AM In regulation there can only two basis and not in groupings like this. First are the scam/shit coins that it’s either be banned and the developers be jailed or punished/pay for damages. Second are the cryptocurrency coin, those that is legitimate and has value that is supported by the community. This can be monitored on personal approach or a better company/exchanges policy. Whatever type it is, what’s important is the security of each investors financially.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: CBESH on February 04, 2018, 02:05:27 AM In regulation there can only two basis and not in groupings like this. First are the scam/shit coins that it’s either be banned and the developers be jailed or punished/pay for damages. Second are the cryptocurrency coin, those that is legitimate and has value that is supported by the community. This can be monitored on personal approach or a better company/exchanges policy. Whatever type it is, what’s important is the security of each investors financially. If the source code is posted on github how can that be verified with the actual code that is running on the servers? Can we truly know if they are identical matches? Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Wallflower28 on February 04, 2018, 04:35:52 AM If the government has the time to invest their money into cryptos then I think aside from regulating or banning it, they will make their own crypto that might have connection with the fiat currency and the majority of the function of the coins these days. If the government will really support these coins, then I think they will plan on doing something new about it in fact that it will not just be at the regulated price and economy, not just in the security of each transaction but they might even make new technologies that could provide widespread function. New functions like a technology or a gadget where you can buy services inside. These situations depends because cryptos either end up dead or dominant in a country depending on how the government perceive its usefulness in the economy. Government might think that it functions the same as credit cards and debit cards because they're both an instrument for online transaction. As of now, it is impossible to happen. Government really hates decentralization and they don't want cryptocurrency to exist because they may lose the control to the people. That's why there are lots of countries that banned bitcoin. In my country, government did not ban bitcoin but they just gave reminders on how cryptocurrency is risky to the people. Yes they have point but at the same time crypto brings hope and opportunity for the people to become successful. I hope someday, government will realize how good that the cryptocurrency brings to their citizen. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: FrueGreads on February 04, 2018, 05:05:08 AM Although regulation seem to be generating a lot of FUD lately, I do think it's a good thing. I don't really want to lose my privacy and anonymity but I understand that there needs to be a middle term. I do know that illegal transactions using bitcoin, only represent a small percentage of it's volume, but criminal activities must still be fought, and regulation will help in this. It's also fine to pay taxes, since we all live in society, so as long as everything is done in a reasonable form, I think regulation will help crypto.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Ranly123 on February 04, 2018, 05:11:25 AM I am sure governments are not making such groups of anonymous and non-anonymous cryptos. As long the cryptos are decentralized, all are same to any government. So if a government wants to ban crypto currency, they will ban it all and not as per the group made by you. Governments will usually want to control their own economy and since cryptos are decentralized, they can't control them. So they will ban all crypto if they want to regardless of anonymity. Also the price will have a hit if a big country like India, US, China, South Korea bans cryptos completely. The majority of the crypto users are from these countries and if these governments ban it, we will see a drastic drop in the market cap as well as in the price. So it is going to affect big time. I totally agree with your thoughts since all crytocurrency are decentralized and blockchain prevent the government from taking control over these currencies. They tend to regulate cryptocurrency and other nations tries to ban these totally. But as what i see these days many digital currency are affected by the news of nations banning cryptocurrency, they drop and this is the effect of the actions taken by our government. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: buwaytress on February 04, 2018, 09:36:57 AM I totally agree with your thoughts since all crytocurrency are decentralized and blockchain prevent the government from taking control over these currencies. They tend to regulate cryptocurrency and other nations tries to ban these totally. But as what i see these days many digital currency are affected by the news of nations banning cryptocurrency, they drop and this is the effect of the actions taken by our government. Actually, my feeling is that we can see a trend of fewer new "cryptocurrency" projects coming up that are actually decentralized. In fact, there are already some projects in the works that will be completely centralized, as they'll come fully under the purvey of the governments and banks that have decided to build them. So, rather than preventing governments from controlling, these actually are directly under control by them. And anyway, even with those that claim decentralization, what's the difference between having your coin controlled by the state, or one that's controlled by your developers? Don't need to look far for a crypto where users have no say in how the project develops or in which direction it does. These projects regulate circulation, creating or burning new tokens as they deem fit, give them away or lock them up. What's the difference? How can they still be called "decentralized"? Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: CryptoBry on February 04, 2018, 10:39:38 AM We could not expect the government to be making a good analysis and distinction among the sea of coins and tokens we already have in the cryptocurrency market. Bitcoin or not Bitcoin, the government is seeing all of this in just one roof and what can happen to Bitcoin can also happen to the others. Many governments right now are contemplating to put up the regulatory framework which the whole cryptocurrency is expected to fully follow and abide. Not following regulations can have many repercussions. Though we always prefer a deregulated environment, what can't be denied is that scam artists are already here masquerading as real cryptocurrency proponents when actually they are not. Regulations aimed to stop these scammers can be good for the whole industry and can save many people's money and pain.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: fanbeila on February 04, 2018, 11:45:15 AM Among the variety of coins, I would make at least these groups: Well as far as shitcoins are considered,no government would care about it to be a threat.Ripple being adopted by almost all banks,governments would not consider it also as a potential threat.- One is sh*tcoins (no innovation, should not even be there) - Privacy aimed coins - Monero, ZCash, Electroneum, Onion, Verge,... - Non really anonymous - Bitcoin,... - Non-anonymous token and code coins - Ethereum, Neo, Xem, ... - Not really cryptos - Ripple What do you think will do the governments as far as regulations or even bans with each of the groups? How may the value be affected? Being fully anonymous,government should worry most about coins like monero,zcash,onion but since they have not being adopted more,they are still free from government's radar. Bitcoin even though it is pseudo anonymous and all the transactions being registered in the public ledger,still it is mostly targeted by governments as it is the highly adopted coin today. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Shrinath on February 07, 2018, 11:46:49 AM Three justices of The Indian Supreme Court issued a notice to the central bank, the market regulator, the tax department, and several other agencies, asking them to answer a petition on the matter, the Hindu, an Indian newspaper. The original petition to the court expressed concern that bitcoin can be used to conduct transactions across borders without a trace, making it an attractive tool for ransomware attackers and tax cheats. According to the petition: "The lack of any concrete [control] mechanism pending the regulatory framework in said regard has left a lot of vacuum and which has resulted in total unaccountability and unregulated Bitcoin (crypto money) trading and transactions." As a result of its adoption, bitcoin usage may affect "the market value of other commodities," according to the petition, which pleaded with the court for an "urgent direction" for the government to intervene. The petition noted that some countries are beginning to either regulate or ban bitcoin, citing China's crackdown on exchanges and Russia's attempts to block bitcoin web sites.
India has typically adopted a "wait-and-see" stance on crypto currencies, discussing their role in the world's largest democracy but not taking concrete steps to regulate or prohibit them. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: ProofOfLambo on February 07, 2018, 12:20:41 PM I am sure governments are not making such groups of anonymous and non-anonymous cryptos. As long the cryptos are decentralized, all are same to any government. So if a government wants to ban crypto currency, they will ban it all and not as per the group made by you. Governments will usually want to control their own economy and since cryptos are decentralized, they can't control them. So they will ban all crypto if they want to regardless of anonymity. Also the price will have a hit if a big country like India, US, China, South Korea bans cryptos completely. The majority of the crypto users are from these countries and if these governments ban it, we will see a drastic drop in the market cap as well as in the price. So it is going to affect big time. Let´s say that a regulation requires communication of large capital movements in crypto. How would you be able to enforce that on privacy oriented coins? I think that would need to be addressed. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Bryan_12 on February 07, 2018, 03:23:56 PM One of the problems that probably worries most of us who work under this medium is that of privacy, being exposed to others is not a viable option, for security, because it is one of the qualities that was most valued in the catalog of the market. Although at the same time it could bring some benefits at the level of speculation, I still do not agree with this factor being broken. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Gregoryxl on February 07, 2018, 03:38:06 PM It is not good that they try to take control, for that they have the fiat money, they can continue to control their real money and free the work with virtual money. They do not need to have control over it if they manage to maintain a plan for both types of currency to maintain their course within society.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: HeroicZ1 on February 07, 2018, 03:42:17 PM I guess I would prefer to have cryptos regulated to a certain extent. Sounds funny or weird, but I wouldn't want to live in a country under chaos just because people didn't pay their taxes making govts fundless and powerless.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: ProofOfLambo on February 08, 2018, 10:19:07 PM Among the variety of coins, I would make at least these groups: I am not sure to what the government would do for each and every one of them but what I am sure of is that they will try to regulate them all, not just ripple. For shitcoins though, I think they will decide sooner or later to ban it's usage since it has no real world use after all. If government started regulating most of the cryptoworld, I am sure that the volatility will be affected.- One is sh*tcoins (no innovation, should not even be there) - Privacy aimed coins - Monero, ZCash, Electroneum, Onion, Verge,... - Non really anonymous - Bitcoin,... - Non-anonymous token and code coins - Ethereum, Neo, Xem, ... - Not really cryptos - Ripple What do you think will do the governments as far as regulations or even bans with each of the groups? How may the value be affected? But who would decide what is a shitcoin? that is, it is something very subjective and even some very powerful coins are not much at the beginning. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Digital_Lord on February 13, 2018, 09:13:45 AM I guess I would prefer to have cryptos regulated to a certain extent. Sounds funny or weird, but I wouldn't want to live in a country under chaos just because people didn't pay their taxes making govts fundless and powerless. The ultimate solution of bitcoin issue is just that some rules and regulation or some kind of policies must be introduced in order to get full benefit from the bitcoin. And I have a belief that soon we will be seeing some policies regarding it coming forward from some renowned companies and powerful governments. We cannot just continue using it this way when we are not sure ourselves that it is legal or not. Some kind of policy must be implemented and I can see it happening very soon as some companies have accepted it already. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: shahani on February 13, 2018, 09:35:19 AM These are the most common problem today, about bitcoin and government, there are also negative news about banned of bitcoin because of the government actions, many people wants decentralization system of bitcoin, but many people also do not want to legalize bitcoin, the reason is, when bitcoin legally operated, the government can control the price movenment and it affects the price going down because of the big taxes being collected.
Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: Victorycoin on February 13, 2018, 11:14:45 AM I am sure governments are not making such groups of anonymous and non-anonymous cryptos. As long the cryptos are decentralized, all are same to any government. So if a government wants to ban crypto currency, they will ban it all and not as per the group made by you. Governments will usually want to control their own economy and since cryptos are decentralized, they can't control them. So they will ban all crypto if they want to regardless of anonymity. Also the price will have a hit if a big country like India, US, China, South Korea bans cryptos completely. The majority of the crypto users are from these countries and if these governments ban it, we will see a drastic drop in the market cap as well as in the price. So it is going to affect big time. Let´s say that a regulation requires communication of large capital movements in crypto. How would you be able to enforce that on privacy oriented coins? I think that would need to be addressed. Apparently, the countries, so far attempting to ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are obviously not among the power blocks - they'll however sooner than later retrace their steps back to the doors of regulation. The advanced countries would rather not encourage the massive switch over and adoption of those coins aimed at enhancing privacy, so they're just okay with regulation, knowing that the move is inevitable in the case of a ban on cryptocurrencies. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: mOgliE on February 13, 2018, 11:22:17 AM Hi,
I think that governments are willing to ban all cryptos. First, because they may not be aware of the differences and second but most importantly because all cryptos represent a new system, allowing people to get rid of control authority. They don't want to see this happen, they want to remain powerful and able to manipulate currency as they wish. This would no longer be possible if we were all using bitcoin (or other crytpo) for daily matters. EVerything must be approved and existing transactions can be tracked. So of course, governments are going to implement regulation against cryptos. All of them, without any distinction. Title: Re: Privacy vs Regulation and goverment actions Post by: ProofOfLambo on March 02, 2018, 01:21:19 PM The realy cares that much about tracking the privacy transactions. Usualy it is used by governmental lobbyists to get more money for different useless activities aiming to track the money. No one will need it untill the amount of the illegal transactions will be over 20% of all crypto volume. Every country in the world have its own private money and it is called cash. Yes and no. Cash leaves normally some trace. At least some intermediaries of trusted thrid parties have knowledge of what is going on. This may not be so on cryptos. |