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This truth really struck home as I read this piece by Dr. Steven Englander (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-17/cryptocurrencies-questioning-value-proposition), a big thinker and expert in currencies and macro-investing who has worked in the Fed, Citi, Lehman Bros., the OECD, etc.

At the center of his conclusion that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have no real value proposition is that the top Western currencies have no store-of-value problem.  True, the US is not Zimbabwe, or Venezuela, but is a bright person like himself not aware that a dollar or pound is worth a small fraction of itself decades to a century ago?  Somone else could be forgiven for the oversight, but surely someone of the stature of Dr. Englander should know better.  At least when he writes a long and thoughtful piece like this.

Which brings me to, really, my pet peeve.  We all talk about the technical features of this money or that.  Electronic vs. physical.  Inflationary or deflationary.  Even transactional speed and cost.  But truly, the only things that really matter are political.  (That is, after a money satisfies the basic requirements, which is not a problem here.)

And I'm not even talking about how money affects the distribution of benefits to different political constituents, whether it benefits debtors vs. creditors, etc., etc.  That is a good topic for another time.  I'm talking about something deeper.  Money is political in the truest, most precise, and widest sense of the word.  And the political dividing line is not between left and right, but between the top politicians and bankers, and everyone else.

Money determines how much goes to the elites and their allies, and how much goes to everyone else.  In the service of the political goal of maximizing benefits for the former, all things tend to get distorted.  Not only is the economy twisted into producing too many luxuries for the beneficiaries by providing unstable employment to the rest (because, after all, luxuries are bought, or not, at the whims of the lucky.)  All the mainstream commentary we hear, somehow, only reflects what the elites want us to think.

According to what we now have to call mouth-pieces of the elites, somehow, people always chase bubbles, and always get hurt, because they're irrational, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  Central-bank money creation is *never* a driving factor.  No, never.

We're living in a lie, and the earlier we wake up to it, the better.  What officials and mainstream media and academics tell us must sometimes be dismissed with: it's just politics.

Good post but I think you are concentrating too much in the way things work now, if you look at the past you will see that the asset which was selected as a form of money was the one that had the best characteristics, this is why in ancient times gold and silver were chosen by many independent cultures as their form of money, but this has been distorted in recent times, bitcoin is just a way to try to go back to those times in which the superior asset became dominant.

Yes I agree,,
politics now is money, there is no real politics of conscience.
want to be a president, also need money very much.
in many worlds like that. there will be no prosperity for the people.

But somehow it can be both but most of the time it is due to political reasons and that's why a lot of people are suffering because of their selfishness that leads them to become a greedy person. How on earth did they manage to eat or sleep like that when everyone is suffering?

Well said! Striking words. I'd seriously suggest you to firstly move this to serious discussion board before people spam the shit out of it.

Moving back on the topic. Money is political, very much agreed. Politics is all that matters now, not only for money but for the survival of the entirety, like say the possibility of the third World War. People want money, leading them to get pride alongside glory and honor to themself. Money makes a person wild.
Technical attributes of money is just for debating and arguing with one another. At the end of the day, if one has huge share or has tie up with higher authorities or if he himself in such a state that he can influence decisions as per his will, then no one actually cares about the technical aspect.
I'd like to contradict this very point for one sole reason, this is totally influential. The purchasing power of people comes to play here. If you're in favor of the political party, then you don't have a problem. You're rich, given other factors obviously. We live in such circumstances where people are producing luxurious goods and inferior goods are becoming costly because of such. Eventually a day shall come where essential and giffen will price the same.

People thought bitcoin would make a difference but think twice its not doing any help. The same is happening over and over. People say gold is not owned by any country specifically, yeah sure why not. Keep telling that to yourself. A day shall come where we will come into a situation where even we would say yeah sure bitcoin is decentralized.

I believe in what you say, for those who are able to do that I call it the 'Global Elite' and they are people 1% of the total population of people living in the world, they are rich richer than the richest people in the world. Since childhood 'we all' have been poisoned with various 'lies', propagare, and false assumptions, until we believe it more than religion.

I do agree that money is pretty political. In a way, there are whales for bitcoin and they act as the "government." They hold the price and they have the power to change it whenever they want; it just comes from their holding of bitcoin. People do need to wake up from dreams. Cryptocurrency is not a get rich quick idea. It still requires smart investing, and in the worst case, it requires you to stay steady and not give into others; it makes you act on your own beliefs.

Fiat has policies which promote store of value which, I believe, crypto currencies could learn from. There are safeguards in place to automatically shut down stock market trading if markets fall too much(something bitcoin might benefit from). Capital gains taxes promote HODL and long term holding strategies in equities markets by rewarding HODL trading over short term daytrading.

Fiat may have a bad reputation in crypto circles but there may be things which could be learned there.


I was thinking about this the other day. How the media is prone towards turning every issue into a popularity contest or some type of juvenile drama.

Fiat is very misunderstood. The best way to explain it is to look at the alternative, the gold standard. Given that gold is in limited supply (2% growth per year, much lower than economic growth) any gold standard will mean deflation when you have economic growth, so the value of gold reflects the new value being created. And deflation is very bad long term. It stifles trade because why buy something today when your money will be worth more tomorrow? Deflation creates a game in which the person who can afford to move last wins, as in very in favor of the ultra wealthy. Which means that with deflation they cannot go bust anymore, all they have to do is keep their money safe and deflation will do the rest, but with inflation they have to move their money otherwise inflation will erode their wealth in time. If you look at US history you'd see deflation causing depression in times where capital was flowing into the economy. Inflation stimulates the economy, the person who moves first has the most to gain because money is losing its value constantly.

Fiat is a very elegant solution to the problem of deflation. When you had a gold standard money was synonymous with value. But Fiat is not just value, fiat also stores debt because a debt is being made every time money is being created and our financial systems are set up in such a way that value rises to the top and debt sinks to the bottom. Bank bail outs meant the people at the top kept the value while the people at the bottom were stuck with all the debt. That is the problem, not fiat per se. But as long as fiat will be controlled by bankers and governments you'll get crap like this.

I think for the money per se is not political but the distribution and allocation of resources (including money) is the one that is political. Who gets and by much money he/she will get is the political aspect of distribution. The way in which money is acquired also plays an political role in distribution.

Distribution of wealth is completely political only in a communist regime, where the politicians of the higher positions get the most wealth while everyone else gets nothing, in a true capitalist economy wealth is distributed according to merit, the problem is that we do not have a capitalist economy either, it is a mix between the two systems, you can get more wealth according to your skills but those that are at the top have a huge advantage over everyone else.

Money is politics, but what isn't? We face the same sorts of things here when it comes to politics, as more people that control the miners, exchanges, and so on and so forth are able to control MANY things when it comes to the community itself. Politics is everywhere, and even though there are some problems that follow that it's not like there's anything we can do about it. That's how the world works.

People still support the traditional system of money because it works, and they don't see any issues with it. Politics isn't an issue to people. Or at least a prevalent one in their entire life is plagued with it.  Different reasoning must be attempted.

Uhm… I think you are right; money is not just political, it can be anything, as long as it can be used as a means of transactions. But when we talk about currency, as in real currencies, Bitcoin is not part of them, and it can never be, cause it doesn’t have what it takes for a money to become.currency.

A lot of existence is the struggle for survival and pushing your own agenda to further your own genetic lineage. At least, that's how it has worked for the entirety of history and likely won't be changing for the rest of it. There are some significant advantages to building an excess of food, money, etc. on the backs of others, and those should be pretty obvious if you think of the implications the surplus would have. There's not a lot to care about when it comes to other people when your own goal is the continuation of your own bloodline.

Most politician now they are using money for the fame and power.

Yeah you're definitely right! Politics now are based on money that you has. If you are too rich, you can handle everything and just pay whatever you wanted to. People's life now are just based on cash. If they want to kill somebody, they just assign someone to do that in exchange of good money.

Analyzing politics and technicalities, called, That is the danger of self-awareness. so that not much in politics,.,. The money he calls is politics, that is not true. Because if money is political, there will be a lot of negative impact.
Then technical, money can also be called technical ... chronologically technical, people are all-apparently in the search for money or spend money in order not to be futile and profitable for him ..
Therefore it is difficult to predict about money. Because every human being has a different analysis.

Of course money is just political!
Money is just a tool to measure the reciprocal relationship of power: actually money is a kind of potential that I have: more money, more potential.
And of course, if I had enormous quantity of money, I had a correspondent level of power.
And politics it's nothing more that power management.

Thank you for your response.  This will become an interesting discussion since, when I first started studying these things, my thoughts were mostly the same as yours.  Only when I started to reflect on the standard economic curriculum and narratives that I realized that economics, finance and money are very political in nature.

It's even fairer to say that the gold standard is very misunderstood!

The idea that the gold standard is harmfully deflationary is based on the history of central banks trying to hang on to the gold standard *after* a financial bust -- that is, too much paper wealth had been issued and confidence in the paper was lost.  At the right ratio of gold vs. paper assets, say in the 1860s and 70s, the gold standard was a factor favoring prosperity and stability across the world.

And why was too much paper issued?  It goes back to to the incentives for the financial and political elites to benefit from issuing assets and propping them up with public power.  In this regard, the gold standard is not fundamentally different from fiat money, though its speed of blowing bubbles may be slower.

The humane response, after a financial bust, would be to devalue paper money against gold.  But the top global elites have been very reluctant to do this over the centuries, for the purpose of protecting their long-term prestige and power.  (Thus, the Federal Reserve did nothing in the early 1930s as the Great Depression turned truly ugly -- only in 1934 was the dollar devalued, by only about 50%.)


This is certainly one of the standard modern economic arguments.  But it's incorrect.  Everyone is eventually incentivized to spend, as their savings get bigger and their days on this earth get fewer.  Money does no good to oneself unless it's spent.

Inflation can be good or bad, and deflation can be good or bad (good as in encouraging future planning, ie thrift and investment as opposed to consumption.)  Inflation and deflation will always be with us.  The key issue is not inflation vs. deflation, but what forces drive each one.  Is it driven by market forces, or by elite central planning which history has shown is always in favor of the elites and at the expense of everyone else?  And fiat money is a major pillar of power for the elites.


Since fiat money is controlled by elite members of governments and central banks (which is the definiation of fiat money,) it will only ever push value up and push debt down, as it has done historically.  (In fact the gold standard is basically the same way, though in a less extreme and slower fashion -- after all, it was central banks who designed gold and silver standards.  This is why the gold standard is very misunderstood by everyone!)

A truly just and enlightened system is one where public power has no role to play in the value of money or any other asset.  As soon as government issues money, the prestige and economy of the country is being used to support its value.  Distortion, and every other bad thing, happens from that point on.

Really, you don't talk about politics without talking of money. Sadly so, you debate how much  needed to be able to reach out in different levels of the electionary process as a candidate including organizing delegates to campaigns .

This money politics cuts across all countries from Europe to Asia, from Africa to America to all continent. This is why the masses are suffering because the elected candidate can't be sincere , they would also want to recoup their 'investment '.

The solution is to demonitize elective positions.

the money is only an intermediary in the sale and purchase, if I think it is yes.
the problem is here we are in search of bitcoin and exchanged into real money that is directly used as a tool to purchase goods. we just hold the money. so the money is useless as a medium of exchange and we can not keep as long as possible and as we please

I think you may be confusing 2 kinds of money.  The money I have in my pocket and bank account, vs. money as a system.  I've been talking about the 2nd.  The money I have is directly correspondent with my power, yes.  But the money system *should* be neutral -- ie it shouldn't inherently favor one group vs. another.  It should be just a tracking system for property -- with the understanding, of course, that the  more property you have, the better off you are.  Tracking systems shouldn't be partial or corrupted, but as we have seen, it is profoundly so.

When you wrote 'of course money is political,' it immediately brought up another interesting angle to my mind (even if it may not be what you intended...)

For many, if not most, human beings, it may be obvious that the money system is designed by the elites to benefit the elites.  What these people don't understand is that this is not (or not quite yet) the mainstream notion in the West.  To Western mainstream opinion, money is both the unobstrusive plumbing that makes the economy work, and a tool for benevolent central bank policy making.  It's for this group that I try to bring out the truth.

And there's good reason why so many intelligent and educated people can be seemingly so naive.  The global financial and political elites have been cultivating the idea that Western institutions are superior, that they are rules-based and transparent, that they are not inherently political.  Why?  Because the  world will then trust, or be forced to trust, the money and debt issued by Western elites, so they can continue to receive 'free' power and wealth.  A quick look at human nature will show that government issued money can't possibly be non-political.  This cultural brainwashing is especially severe in the US, the center of what is really an imperial system, and in India, the future such center.

And it's important that people are continually reminded about this. Bitcoin was extremely ideological and governments and the traditional financial system at least can be credited for recognising it as a political threat.

Yes, the underlying blockchain infrastructure is a brilliant piece of technology - but it was simply the means to deploying the idea.

The latter may be gaining more recognition than the former, though arguably, the majority of Bitcoin users can't see past the market to appreciate either.

There are many economists that consider FIAT as a illusion created by govt. They consider GOLD or SILVER as the standard financial instrument.

Money is a way that the government wants to use to regulate people's property in a country, money that is closely linked to politics is very accurate. Cryptocurrency has prevented state management of the assets of an individual or organization from using and investing in crypto. This has led to governments being very upset and forbidding cryptocurrency development. This is the main reason why Cryptocurrency is still being banned in the world.

Maybe bitcoin is the first technical based money still it can be serving the purpose of what other political money can do. I mean to say unlike how traditional money is being printed, bitcoin is here with some reason and it is being mined and reward to who deserves it. The idea and technology behind bitcoin will be ensuring it can be a replacement for any traditional momentary system.

They are all must be right. Because, for the easiness of transacting governments discovered fiats which is actually do not have any value before governments printing them. Bitcoin could be a replacement for gold and silver because we need a monetary system which also supports electronic money movements.

I'm not sure if you live in the US, where the tax rules are pretty much what you describe above.  The federal tax authority (IRS) treats cryptos as 'property' for tax purposes, so you pay normal capital gains taxes, which are lower for coins held for one year or longer.

In the West, I think circuit breakers still carry the stigma of elite control and dysfunctional markets.  Even though everybody eventually uses them, the Western authorities still try to appear they have a lighter touch than others.  (The Western media were laughing at the Shanghai stock market recently for its way of using circuit breakers.)

The same applies to cryptos -- although I tend to think, since we're stepping into a new monetary era of adjustable de facto gold-silver-crypto standards, all markets for non-state monetary assets are heavily manipulated by the elites anyway.  So circuit breakers would just mean a slightly different approach to price control.

Money in politics is symptom of the real problem.  In the West, voters are just too busy/obsessed/unaware/short-sighted to keep politicians honest.  Having money to run ads is thus important to a politician.  This is basically due to the voters' status as 'beneficiaries' of the world money system, where money is created out of thin air and a good part of it goes to them to keep them 'happy.'  They don't really have to grow much personally to enjoy a good life.  Outside the rich world, we don't even have democracy, so naturally money rules all policies.

The solution is to remove the power of governments to manipulate money.

Excellent article, I do not usually talk about these things regularly but this time I will give my opinion ... Corruption in politics and representational crises are global and do not occur only in the great countries power of the world. This is because in societies and at a time without great values ​​and ideological anchors it has been easy for money to become the great fetish and it is he, and not politics, that appears as a symbol of identity and prestige. This generates a true commodification of life and certainly of politics itself.

Money is a mean of exchange. Hence, the national currency rate are the issue of politics and manipulation of peoples mind, plus it is a tool to control one's government citizens.

But that kind of solution would really be somehow an impossible thing to be removed unless if a certain country do have federalism type of government then pure manipulation would really be lessen or isnt likely to happen. Money in politics is already a normal thing nowadays it do really have always the involvement and as being part of this sad reality those people who are on position would really take advantage for those people below.

There is nothing more correct than this, nowadays money has become part of a solution to solve and maintain the commercial, financial, governmental policy and even of daily life. It stopped being part of a world where it was only a material used for survival, to become a product that can give peace or war.

Thank you.  Totally agreed.

Let us think how this tragedy happened.  (First let's take religion out of the discussion, since people have different ones, and substitute with a 'common value system'.)  What really undermines core values (say, the values of the Enlightenment, or 'don't steal,' or 'don't lie'?)  Not that people don't intellectually believe them, but the erosion comes when they see others profit by breaking them.  Because they naturally think the only way within their power to balance out the unfairness is to loosen their own standards.

One major way moral breakdown happens is how, as a society, economic growth is pursued ahead of all else.  Growth is close to gospel in the rhetoric of all major political parties.  For centuries, it has been pursued in the West by institutions and individuals, at the expense of all kinds of other priorities, like the environment, or personal happiness.  Why?  Really?

Because this money system we have demands that growth happen constantly, or the system will implode and the elites in charge are in trouble.  If we view money as the tickets to seats in a concert, the political and financial elites first issue more tickets than there are seats in the room (because they benefit immediately from the sale.)  Now, later on, they 'find' that they must build more seats before everyone realizes the problem and a riot happens.

So, led by the top elites, the entire society engages in a no-holds-barred chase for economic growth.  The result is that, even when this is successful, we are richer but less happy, and our values have been set aside.

Every country has got its own currency which the people living in that country use that money in order to buy different sort of things as well as to meet all their daily needs and wants. You can term this money as both technical thing as well as political thing as the ruling government has a key role in making the currency more worthy or less worthy. However, the government always tries its best to increase the market value of their currency.

That's the main problem that governments see in cryptocurrences: they still don't know how to make it political. Crypto is technology made by common people for common people to make their lives easier and more comfortable but it doesn't work as the instrument of power competition or political control.

Money is political and that supposes why fiat of every nation has the backing of their respective governments. Anything that has a store of value could be money once it has the government policies around it for that. Since Bitcoin hasn't got that policy backing of the government to become money, it can't despite how a means of exchange the crypto community sees it to be with all its technicalities.

I would withhold judgment on that.  For example, I would not be surprised if the Fed (maybe in partnership with the Bank of Japan) created Bitcoin in secret and released it to the world as a non-state-sponsored project.

Bitcoin is a perfect way for the US-led Western alliance to regain their power by reflating their debt-ridden economies after they've possibly run out of gold.  You could easily argue the reflation is now under way.  Almost too perfect.

The advantage of fiat currencies is 'being backed by the government.'

The disadvantage of fiat currencies is also 'being backed by the government.'  Since the top politicians and bankers have the incentives to issue more and more currency to give power and wealth to themselves, the system is inherently unstable.

So there will always be a role for non-state money, such as Bitcoin and gold.

In the end, all currency holds its value because both parties in opposite sides of the transaction believes it has value. Nothing holds it together but the community. As long as the community needs bitcoin it will have value. Power is political and money is fuel to power. I guess that's how things would work until the end of time.

Crypto currency does not exist in the physical sense. The author is absolutely right. I think that this is more of a psychological component. People believe in what is not. They work with what they have never seen. Many scammers who sell bitkoin coins in the real world. But do you understand how cool is the image of crypto currency if so many people work with it?

While both sides believe that the crypto currency has value - it will exist. Everything depends only on people. Their perception of this money.

Totally agreed, but there is an extra dimension that most people don't think of.

In the modern world, the elites issue their own money and use their power to give value to this money.  This is very powerful, at the beginning.  People will trust a money that the government supports.

But over time, the power to issue and support their own money also tempts the elites to abuse that power, and cause their own money to lose value.

This is, ultimately, the reason for holding non-state money like gold and Bitcoin.

agree, money is a concept to "tie" people and push them to "commit" into something such as job or state, so money is equivalent with power, the source of power is manipulating people through political system, and that is when money come forward as a win win solution of "slavery system"

People will dictate on every value of any coin or commodities, the demand for it will tell how much it should be. Money will stay for good because this is what we believe that most needed instruments to have power, therefore bitcoin will stay as long as there's a demand though its only a digital currency, those who support this will not let this things to die.

Many liberals believe that bitcoin carries the vision of a libertarian.
Decentralized technology, BTC is central bank and currency!
This has led to a hatred of BTC by central Banks.

Maybe it's true. Or maybe not. In any case, we can verify this if we visit in the future. A limited number of people will benefit from these operations. But from a psychological point of view, bitcoin exists, but not physical.

Right, the most famous two narratives (which together account for how the vast majority of people think) about state-free money are: (1) it's a limit on the power of central banks and other elites, and therefore it will be suppressed, rightly or wrongly, depending on your political view about state power; and (2) it will eventually win since the elites will always abuse and destabilize their own issued money.

But how about a third narrative?  It acknowledges some truths of both conventional narratives but lives somewhere in between: the top elites really understand (2), but of course they also want their own money to be the standard means of exchange and unit of account.  So they make use of non-state money by pegging their own money against it, either explicitly (as under the gold and silver standards) or implicitly as they have done with gold after 1971, with the flexibility of devaluation against gold from time to time (but most of the time, suppressing it so not too many people think it's a real store of value.)

I think the third one is the closest to the truth, if you really pay attention.

Yes i agree,Money is the centralized for being a politics without money they cant move and do anything in politics.Almost politician are using money so that they will win to their position,but some politician will not win even they are using Money,even not technical but some people or voters also are sage,they just want the money but not the person who was running a politician.

The solution to this problem is to give the state as little power as possible.  The state should only take care of the protection of life and property, and the enforcement of contracts.

Any 'extra services' offered by the elites are for their own benefit, and set up situations where even more 'extra services' will be needed.

All the OP is good, but the last sentence beats all the rest. Because the problem is nore really the money, which is just an instrument. The problem is the control of the narrative. Once you have the control of the (mainstream) narrative, you have the control over reality. And of course it's all a lie, but the lie goes much deeper than the argument of money alone. And as for people awakening from this mega-lie, have no illusions. Only a catastrophe of enough magnitude will be able to act as a wake-up call.

Thank you!

So, to take in the big picture, what happened to the idea of an independent press to hold the government accountable?  What happened to academic freedom?  Why does it require people like you and me to point out what should be obvious to the experts, economists, and financial journalists?

You would think, any individual of these groups would want to make themselves famous by saying something novel and shock the public ('the system is really rigged -- there is no free market.')

Yet when Peter Schiff went as far as saying the housing bubble was unsustainable, back in 2007/8, he was almost laughed off the stage by his fellow commentators.

So is there a sinister conspiracy that is much better coordinated than we know, or incentives just work a certain way to shape the mainstream narrative into a grotesque version of the truth, when the public is incapable of really understanding money?  That would be a good question to think about.

One practical pathway I envision is to have like-minded people form a separate country, small at first.  This country would need all of the following (in addition to the obvious -- a prohibition against the government getting involved with money and finance in any way):

- Ability to defend itself militarily (because, trust me, the empire will attack)

- Ability to grow and make everything it needs (because of the following)

- Trade only with countries that are free like itself (ie no trading partners, initially)

The last one is the most controversial.  But if the country doesn't shut off trade with the mainstream world system, it's doomed, objectively.  Trade is often the route by which the imperial power, which controls what is deemed 'money' by most of the world, to distort the economies of smaller countries, addict them to demand by the imperial system, and gradually force them to abandon any monetary freedom.  Switzerland is a prime example.

Money buys attention.  Attention sometimes exposes the candidate as the second best choice.  As mentioned elsewhere, the voters now have many ways to get unfiltered news and evidence of a candidates actual behavior and views.  I don't think voters will believe everything a campaign ad says any more than they'll believe everything a skin lotion ad says.  We're just too sophisticated to make that kind of mistake at this point.  Finally, I can assure you that a million paid telephone calls and two million pieces of direct mail will be extremely ineffective in countering a half million conversations among voters.  If you have your supporters talking you up in any setting, whether meet and greet house parties, door to door, or just at work around the water cooler, you can beat anyone with unlimited money.

Saya tidak berpikir seperti itu. Saya pikir uang itu tidak politis. karena bukan untuk tujuan itu uang dibuat. hanya saja dengan uang banyak orang bisa membayar apa saja sehingga politik dapat dikendalikan oleh orang yang punya banyak uang atau politik untuk mendapatkan sejumlah uang.

Totally agreed.  I've written many times about natural vs. chemical drugs.  The US government (FDA) has known that cannibis (marijuana) is a harmless pain killer, but is only now slowly rolling back the bans against it, after popular demand has become irresistible.  The drug lobby and politicians prefer us to use chemicals with side effects and addiction issues, because those give them wealth and power.  (Politicians and regulators need to step in and 'protect' the public, and that effectively gives them a share of the profits.)

It's the same with money.

Well, what conclusions can we draw from this article that we need to continue to buy bitcoin or it's time to sell?

That is what the market system says.  But the reality is that the elites hold enormous power here.  If they buy Bitcoin, it will go up (and they can claim it's because people want it.)

The main point of the OP is that there is no free market in money.

It is true indeed. Maybe durimg the ancient times its purpose was purely for exchange or payment for services. But now, how the people view money changes, its both technical and political.

If we take a look back, money wasn't political since almost all had mutual respect, whenever someone paid in gold or silver coins, but it only becamse political when the powers had understood what power money can do for them as well as those who not in power but posses a lot of money, thus the reason why we have corrupt offices today there are those want to be in power so they can have more money to give them more power, this is true if you check out the bankers, since they have money, they can support the candidates and political parties that they want to win, and in turn the favor will be more on their side and the cycle just goes on and on.

I absolutely agree with your statement that money is a political and economic instrument  but mostly it is political one and as you correctly have noticed that cryptocurrencies will not change typical money because government lose the control of emission in this case and it is a collapse for them because it the most powerful and strong instrument of govern.

I agree that money is political. But can we abandon money? I think we can’t.

I also agreed with him the the flactuation in all crypto currencies including bitcoin is more likely to be political rather than to be technical. We can also see that the recent flactuation in the valuation of bitcoin is very much influential and it goes ups and downs, in recent months mostly down because many countries has denied to legalise it and even media is spreading negative rumours about bitcoin but still the valuation little depends technically also.

Money has always been a reflection of politics. At all times, new states began with the fact that they were releasing their money. Their forgery was considered one of the most serious crimes and was regarded as an undermining of the state's economy. Therefore, with the legalization of the crypto currency, we are still in big trouble. The state does not want to let in its economy as money virtual money of a very large value, which can not be controlled.

I really like the opinion in your writing, and I agree with your opinion that all is still refracted with things politics, less rational explanation, to influence freedom of thought, I personally still optimistic with crypto and future will prove himself , good writing friends, success for all of us

Forgery was considered a big problem in ancient times. Forgers were given horrific punishments, including chopping off of limbs, to ensure that people don't try to attempt it. Bitcoin has solved this problem, but now the state realizes that their monopoly is under threat. Forgers seem to represent a smaller threat than Bitcoin.

In our occidental countries, we are totally independent from the banking systems that force us to pay fees to dispose of our money. 
Do you realize that your bank requires you to pay "account maintenance" fees, by imposing limits, when it is your money? 
Today, more than 50% of the world's population does not have access to a bank account  yet we see their proliferation on every street corner in our developed countries.
It's normal, banks create money.
Nobody really has euros, they are simply "units of account".
French commercial banks actually have a maximum of 7% of their real liquidity. (Against 19% in Switzerland, highest in Europe)
In this sense, if everyone wants to empty their account, it becomes impossible. (See Greece in 2008)

If you pay a merchant who uses the same bank as yours, no euro has actually spent.
If this merchant uses another bank, the clearing house will convert your account units into euros, and vice versa.
The European Central Bank obliges commercial banks to create liquidity in the form of bank loans and it is the banks that get rich at the expense of the population. 
This banking system is, in my opinion, the scam of the century and is dangerous for the survival of the economy;
Debt is increasing day by day, the next crisis will be monstrous.

Thank you for the good insight.

The banking system is a classic piece of my definition of the core of the world system as a scheme by the alliance of political and financial elites to artificially prop up financial assets with state power.  When the asset values hold, the elites benefit by issuing the assets without doing real work.  When the bubble finally collapses, the average people pay the highest price.

The asset here is bank 'deposits.'  'Deposits' are just claims on a bank that are impossible to honor except in a bubble of confidence, that is protected by schemes like government deposit insurance, implicit promises by the government to bail out the bank, etc.  In the US, the total premium paid for federal deposit insurance can't begin to pay for bank failures if everyone wants their money out.

What the banking system does is to increase the total supply of 'money' in the economy, which will then feed into other financial assets that primarily benefit the elites, for example, federal debt.

But the average person is stuck.  If they don't put money in the banking system, it earns no interest, and the person still has to live under the general inflation created by the increase of money supply from banking.

Most conspiracies are secret.  But the world system is an open conspiracy.  Open conspiracies are possible to carry out only when you have enough power, combined with enough public ignorance, combined with enough public addiction to their pieces of the 'benefits.'

That is, of course, because the state is guaranteed by their government. When there is government involvement, they have more peace of mind and that can be called economic politics. But they will pay a higher price than the prize, because they pay taxes to their government. And that is economic politics, not discipline that people think.

In the modern world, politics is the driving force of life in society, while money as fuel can accelerate the desired goal. So from that politics and money become a mutually supportive entity, that is to be balanced. As we see everywhere politicians waste money to pursue positions, with the aim of gaining profit that the end result is money. So money is used as a tool to achieve goals.

Great post yet I think you are packing excessively in the manner in which things work now, in the event that you take a gander at the past you will see that the advantage which was chosen as a type of cash was the one that had the best attributes, this is the reason in antiquated circumstances gold and silver were picked by numerous autonomous societies as their type of cash, yet this has been mutilated as of late, bitcoin is only an approach to attempt to return to those circumstances in which the prevalent resource ended up prevailing.

this is a good post to be discussed. Yes the money is now the one who make the political become greedy, that is why a lot of people are suffering because of there greediness, corruption, etc..

That is the reason in a way, the application of blockchain technology will become rampant as days go by, with so many governments already trying to see how it can be applied and integrated into the system for a better approach to things, and how it can help and assist each sector. Yes, we know this is going to be more decentralized anyway, but also it would skyrocket the usage of the blockchain technology and will also give chance to the decentralized world to get exposure as well.

Bitcoin was introduced to reconstruct the entire industry in a way it must work. Yes, democracy and republic were not working so fat and the momentary systems were controlled by central banks without considering the welfare of common people but only industrialist. A true democracy must work in decentralized way even in daily momentary system too.

Money will probably be spent to purchase votes. If it comes to money in politics there are a couple of things we must clarify off the bat. Since it's about the money. Money is slimy, folks say, and those who handle it are sleazy, folks say. Suppose the excess demand made by the newly created money is readily met with huge supply. Thats when dirty political games starts.

That is why we need understand on how things work.  The elites will never what us to progress and become one of them and that is why they politicize our monetary system. We may not be able to enjoy our society except we do away with our current Education and financial system and that is why blockchain technology seeing to be the reality we have been waiting for.

Politics are just a cancer to society that probably run by money itself. Politics are dirty because it can manipulate people and even economics as well. Since this is the era of crypto currency, it might a hard time for crypto currency to make its way to mainstream because of the hindrance that politics could bring.

that makes sense, the only way to avoid it is to understand how it works, in fact the decline in bitcoin at this time is due to dirty politics done by certain people to buy bitcoin at a low price and hold it in order to get big profits

Politics dictates on how citizen should live in a place. This make sense why there are different way of living in different countries. The same is true for monetary system because its part of how people lives everyday of their lives.


If there is no politics, then it would be chaos. I believe you have a misconception in the term. Without politics, no people will talk for a better future for everybody, they will just think of themselves and we all know that this is the way of life before civilization.

Regardless of which areas or issues, money is very important. Particularly politically the ultimate purpose is still money, material wealth. Most countries have profitable and material goods. The desire to achieve that requires certain solutions to achieve the goal. The future of electronic money will be a new step for people to use them, the most flexible way.

Based on my opinion, in any case, we can verify this if we visit in the future. A limited number of people will benefit from these operations. But from a psychological point of view, bitcoin exists, but not physical.

I would agree that politics is unavoidable -- we all need a basic framework within which to live with other people in society.

The trouble is that we have very little understanding and agreement on what this framework should be, beyond the basic protection of life and property rights.  The 'extra services,' such as money, provided by the political class (and their banker allies) have become a means to enrich the elites and impoverish the rest of society, because we don't understand enough to hold the elites accountable.

In every side of human life always be filled with politics. In my opinion this has become commonplace. For me personally during bitcoin and crypto currency is not harmful, this is not a problem. let people be busy with their politics. We just observe and be careful not to fall into the political error they make.

What i think is that money isn't political at all. It is simply an effect or a result of power. In your argument, i understood that money is just a measure of political power, but in fact it is the opposite. Money is only thr result of power a country could amass over other countries. The more power you have, the stronger your currency is.

Yes, right what your money says, money is a political tool for gaining power. Whatever can be bought with money including self-esteem. pity :'(

One thing with money is that it is regulated and that is one way it is protected as a store of value based on some of the economic policies, even though we may be seeing some bad economic policies affecting a lot in most places now. However, looking at the fact that money is always just printed every single time and there is actually no limited supply, which even makes it a whole lot more political.

Nonetheless, we still have to understand the fact that money itself is not political in most sense, as politics is something that could be applicable to almost everything, but the thing is that money is just distributed among just very few people and this is where the whole monopoly thing comes in. However, even in the crypto space at the moment, are we not seeing politics everywhere?

Upper decision decided by the economic background!
Politics is a game for rich people! Politics is a process in which various groups make collective decisions, such as ruling a country, and also refers to the supervision and control of a domestic and foreign affairs!
This requires a lot of money to maintain the rule!

The day trading part is the "technical" part people are talking about, otherwise the long term it is of course political.
It is year 2018 already, there is literally very little wars going on like the old days, even wars like 2003 Iraq war which is probably closest real war the world had is no more because people could literally control another country with just money.

You can basically keep putting pressure economically with banning companies sending stuff there and stop accepting stuff from a certain country which would really cripple their economy and that would cause that country to do whatever you want in order to get back on economic track. Look at turkey, they were holding a priest as a prisoner, USA said "no" and ruined Turkeys economy for a while and the priest was of course released right away, right afterwards the economy got back on track. Countries has that power now.

And that political moves is something that has been used several times to blind a lot of people into believing what the government and all these so called experts want us to believe.

However, we cannot discard the fact that politics actually matter in a way, but one thing for sure is when we are talking about political environments, they are formed everywhere and they are even formed sometimes in the crypto space, as technical as it is. The problem with a lot of people is they always have this mindset of a get rich quick scheme thing and that is what puts them most times in problem.

Indeed, it cannot be denied that politics plays a role in currencies, as in my country, politics is very dominant, it can clearly be felt, the current investment can be connected because before the political year is heating up, political opponents concentrate attacking the economy, especially the exchange rate , because even the slightest increase in the exchange rate of the currency against the dollar, the impact will be felt because it directly touches all sectors of life, so it's true that politics can be a currency controller, do you feel that politics also affects crypto currencies? talking about politics not just focusing on power but rather a process of mastering something that begins with controlling it, now the price of btc is like a pope as a controller, which means the pope has done his politics against cryptocurrency, this is a complicated fact of course

It is through cryptocurrency and blockchain that I have being enlighten about the concept of money but as an individual there is nothing I can do about it but as members of the cryptocommunity we can effect change and liberate the masses from the financial darkness orchestrated by our politicians and the elite.

i think a country will determine policy, so that it can affect the strength of their currency. and it comes from political agreement. so i think political world greatly influences direction of their currency movements

Yeah, it seems so. But for some people they don't know such stuff like this and they ought to believe that the Government is fair with them.

Of course, any money of the states is at the same time an instrument of policy. That is why for a fake state money has always been a very harsh punishment, including the death penalty. Any national money, with the exception of maybe a dollar, is directly dependent on the state of the state's economy and who is able to influence the cash flow, he has real power.
Cryptocurrency has a slightly different nature. It has nothing to do with the economy of any state. However, it cannot be said that one who has a significant amount of a cryptocurrency in demand does not have the potential to acquire power.

This makes sense, but not absolute. When technical companies grow into century-old companies, they will be very close to politics. To know that the biggest user of politics is the enterprise, there is no absolute. In essence, technology is the primary productivity.

Yes, money now absolutely political and non ethical also politics is now absolutely marketing and marketing is absolutely trending  ;)  Politics=brands and money is their product

The subject you give is very good. I think money is both. Nowadays, many people want to do politics, they have to have strong financial resources, and they have to make a commitment to the national economy, which is what most people care about. It means that when you are rich, the higher the ratio of your candidates.

I think money has always been one of the tools of political influence. And in our time, their value and scope has not changed. The "form" of money has changed they have become electronic, invisible, intangible.

In my view, no political politician knows that He can not afford a lot of money from the country's treasury where He serves.
So there are crazy politicians because they are greedy for money in politics due to of the people's treasury. Which is I agreed that it is not
technical in my opinion.

Normally, money holders are also political holders, who have the power to decide in most important things. In bitcoins, too, large dolphins hold more bitcoins and seem to have the power to decide on the market.

Money has always been directly related to state policy. Therefore, always the issue of issuing money was in the exclusive competence of the state power. Forgery of state money has always been very harshly punished, even to the death penalty, because it undermined the foundations of state power.

Fiat money is also not backed up by anything. The only really valuable means of payment has always been, is and will be precious metals. I absolutely agree with you that politics is a business that is conducted in many directions. Ordinary people see a different picture of what is happening in politics through the media. But it's not really like that.

In my opinion money is political because they are keep canvassing you to get what is wants rather than needs. It will be take as technical in terms of decision making what to do and how to use kinda formulating and analyzing what is good and better one. Miney can lead to evil side if you don't know how to think of it how gonna use.

politics plays its role, where ultimate goal is money, and politics can direct currency to go where. and i think precious metals are a little affected by politics, they are running because they already have trust from all over the world

Money is powerful whenever on how do we use it. Specially when we see money as a politics. When money turns into as a politicians we never know what value it is turns into a gold.

The "political" aspect of money is a long term idea, if you are going to day trade the political stance of money is not really that important except few days when there are crisis between countries.

If you are a day trader you use the technical indicators to learn when to get in and when to get out, that is your job to know those technical stuff and read them well understand them well enough to move accordingly. Political part of money only comes in when the long term affects of political movements affect the money, there are days when a president of one country has a feud with another country's president however those are very few and rare in between so you can't bet your money on figuring out who will have a fight with who.

I would say do your daily trades according to technical aspect and do your investments on political aspect of money.

as long as people still think money is something that must be owned and even assume that their ultimate goal is money, then here is the opportunity of the global elite in monopolizing all public characters through the media of money
for small people, bitcoin is a decentralized asset, but for large people they can make bitcoin centralized according to their own version, and also included in politics

politics and different levels of interest in each country to make the value of their own money by giving a lot of certain factors that make the value of the money different from one country to another. but money will indeed relate to politicians as well as central banks, so they doubt and fear when a decentralized blockchain appears that values something globally or is formed from market value by users

This is true. This is a fact that cannot be changed in the short term. But this does not mean the future. Every age has great people to change humanity. The formation of future blockchains will make them disappear. Money is definitely technical, not politician. It is because of the rights of politicians that cryptocurrencies are growing rapidly. People need real freedom instead of being deceived.

At the opposite end, every age has great people to do crap things. This will always be true regardless of the technology, and look I'm a big fan of blockchain tech, I love it so much I think about it every day and talk with people who want to so much about it. But we shouldn't be blinded and think this is the amazing saviour of everything. In the end this is just money, that is all. This isn't education. This isn't literacy. Not a cure to cancer.

But it is power. And politics is all about power. No power? Buy it.

   Money it considered as political carrier due to the political mandate the voted through the council and hat propose by the president. although political is concerned money is a big duty for the society and country to balance the economy.

That's right, changes in policies concerning currencies are more influenced by political factors than technical factors, because the impact is more valued on political policies that can bring about public change. For example, a president takes policy, political factors must be the biggest consideration.

Do you really think this isn’t the game about power and money? What else is politics then? Definitely people are greed of money and power and it always attract everybody, at any scale.

I still do not understand why the sudden moves in countries happen while it is obvious it has been cooking for a long time. I mean we can see many countries going very low and very badly for a long time before they fall of a cliff. Politics have a big part in this, if you are run by a president that declines to get off and runs the country for decades until he dies or something than there is a big chance people are not investing in your country with the fear that you may actually do something crazy that a dictator would do and get their money or something.

The economy goes bad for days, weeks, months and years and everyone clear as a day see that it is going horrible and one day BAM! the market collapses and noone is shocked about it neither. Why does that happen if we have known it for years?

I firmly believe that money really is political and not technical. Cne to rhink of it, the technical aspects of money such as its value is not limited only to the number printed on that, it is more of a political in a sense that it involves government, science, and arts (style). Money on its technical aspect can only be seen on its simplest and most plane use. But because money is political, its function deepens and its scope widens. Money due to its political nature, it is then regularized by the government. Money also needs a style in management. And money is not only used in daily living but as a political carrier of power, change, and control.
                                          

Yes and no.  Many policies have the effect of strengthening the state-issued money, yes.  For example, the gold standard, where paper pounds could always be redeemed for gold from the Bank of England at a fixed rate, helped maintain confidence in the paper money issued by the British Empire during its best days.  Britain even had a law in mid-19th century that banned the printing of too much paper money relative to its gold reserves.

But on the eve of World War I, Britain had printed so much paper money, officially backed by gold, over the previous 100 years, that it only had enough gold to redeem 3% of the paper money.  By whatever means, all the safeguards had been defeated.  It must have been clear, by that point, that the real purpose of the safeguards was to provide artificial confidence, so the elites could keep printing money to benefit themselves.

Under the American empire since the 20th century, this trend has only become worse.

I agree with you this time that money is politics. How come? that is because the world bank is lending money to countries for political activities which sometimes can cause extreme conflict, and after that the state must pay the debt or hyperinflation will occur if it cannot pay.

Of course, money is not only the economy, but also politics to a large extent. Who owns cash flows, and in fact the real power in the state. It has always been this way, it continues like this now. After all, people are not only striving for power in order to get only power. Power in the state is the distribution of taxes collected, the distribution of money. Therefore, politics, power and money are inseparable.

this is said because the political controlled the countries governments and when a country government allow crypto then it is a good and for every one money is the need, Many bitcoin friendly countries are favor bitcoin because it is useful to every one not for specific people but advantage for every one.

technical only makes it easier for us to analyze it, but actors in market movements are influenced by politics, as you explain. of course government policy determines market movements

Spot on.  The technical aspect of money goes as far as its value in terms of its buying power or worth but of course there is so much more to it than that.  In simplistic view, yes each piece of paper money is worth what is written on it however I fully accept and believe the concept also that money is so much more about politics because of the influence that comes with it.   Money requires manipulation, regulation, control and government, all controlled by politics.

Money is political because it is based on a nation's economy it is relates to governance. It is different from country to country and therefore needs to be balanced. Ones economy is quite different from the other which would mean so much adjustments. While there are corrupt individuals who manages things for their comfort yet I do not believe they are trying to make unemployment unstable for their own good, but I do believe that everything is on their favor like giving low salaries. They can have more profit or gain with people serving them which I believe is opposite of what you are saying. In my locality too many of this rich individual lay down in bed waiting for money to come while the rest are really digging up for their golds doing the hard work and earning less in return. Most of the poor dig deep as if digging graves because they have to work very hard to earn money not even considering how stressful their life is and how health damaging are the long hours of overtime they will do always. While they of course, enjoy the golds that the poor gathered for them. Money do not actually decides on everything it is just a tool, it is how people decides on it and how each would want to live their lives.

True in this era lthe one who stands atop gets to decide what we use as currency but in the past the popular trend was barter payment means paying with food or other resources then later gold and silver where introduce as new method for payment as its way easy to pay with money. My point is, the people gets to decide what to use not the individual a consensus of a group.

I agree. I mean, especially these days, wealth and money is controlled by a select few who holds power either from a societal or political point of view. That power can really affect how money flows either in one area or even in one country itself. The opportunities available to those in power in terms of business are far more open and easier to achieve as compared to those people who don't have much, or even those rich people but don't have the connections that could help them achieve their objectives. The sad reality of that is also the very reason why the rich people keep on getting rich and the poor either are nailed to where they are or even go in more worse situations.

Well said, I completely agree with the last sentence you wrote, be it fiat or cryptocurrency, politics will have an impact over it. Cryptocurrencies also can be technical, but Fiat is more technical than cryptos along with the political thing taken into consideration for both of them.
Crypto market is still new and not adopted worldwide, so, for now, Political is more than Technical in case of cryptocurrencies.

For me this Politics and its people are just a disaster to a society or community that probably run by money itself and basically politicians are that bad because they manipulate people around them and even economics as well that results for any kinds of dirty movements. Since this is the time of cryptocurrency it might be a hard time for our currency to make its way to mainstream because of the hindrance that politics could bring such as different kinds of corruptions in a government.

I'd have to agree, money in itself is a benefit or a reward that could be used to leverage people into doing something. But i still believe that true unadulterated power is way better and money will just be a consequence of that power. And when i say power, I don't mean strength, but how much you can sway other people to do what you want.

Printing money has always been a priority of the state, that is, people in power. Therefore, money. power and politics are inseparable. He who has money has power, and vice versa. Therefore, money is not only a reflection of the state of the state’s economy, it is a powerful political tool.

You could say that, when you want to lobby politics with someone, of course you have to bring the financial benefit clause to them.
money has become a tool to facilitate the interests of some people you know

from the beginning it was like this, and corruption was always unavoidable because of the existence of money and the status of the ruler. I think crypto is time to be legalized.

Remember, political power is a big part of financial asset values.  Why is the US stock market still so high when everyone knows it's only propped up by companies buying back their stocks and central bank signalling, rather than real profit growth?  Elite power is being used to control 'markets,' and ordinary investors either go with the flow (and thus further adding to the power of the elites,) or  'fight city hall' (good luck with that strategy!)

This is just an example.  Monetary and financial 'markets' are like this everywhere.  The nature of propping up 'markets' successfully is that the elites have the incentives to undermine the stability of their own system, by further abusing their power when they can.  When that has gone beyond their power to save their system, and when a critical mass of investors become aware of that, things collapse quickly and catastrophically.

It is a no-win situation for ordinary people, even if they understand what is going on.  The only hope for real progress, over the long term, lies in being aware and demanding fundamental change to the ability to use public power to manipulate asset values.

Definitely, politics is now money. In particular, the US, Turkey, Russia and the political events of the currencies of countries such as China can easily specify that very seriously affected. In the case of a new political crisis in the coming years, I think this political crisis will be reflected on us as an economic crisis. If the politicians do not make common treaties with each other and continue to make decisions against each other's wishes, there will be very serious changes in the currencies of the countries I mentioned in the second sentence. Unfortunately, the world economy and the economies of the country are changing according to politics.

yes I agree that the money is always build it up for the good reasons to make the life of people more easier but nowadays it will be going to like the government control and especially the political things will come pain together with money and make the changes useful for them so I think it will not good at any type of situation.

Until now, I have never seen the presence of sensitivity as said by Dr. Steven Englander, especially in financial matters. I think it's common knowledge that most of the world's political elites have a lot of control over the world economy with their money, for example by cooperating with banks which of course they can control according to what they want. This thing certainly makes it easier for them to launch their actions, such as disrupting global market prices, making the exchange rate of a country's currencies weaker with the various bank interest rates they have set, etc. But we are disappointed, the government, which also serves as the state organizer, seems to have no sense of concern for the crisis that they often create, even each government elite seems indifferent to this problem. Meanwhile, bitcoin whose positive benefits can be felt by the wider community, they reject it outright without being studied first.

Cryptocurrency will not lessen the corrupt people, they will find a way to get money as easy as possible. We are greed to money, let’s admit this one but its too sad that other people can’t control their emotion and do bad things to other people. We can always earn clean money if you want to, emotion is not a great excuse.

every technological development certainly can be used positively or negatively, it depends on the user. therefore it is necessary to have a regulating policy, so that negative actions can be reduced

I kind of agree with you. The guy who said Bitcoin has no value probably doesn't understand what value is. I remember the news of some home and car owners selling their homes and cars for Bitcoin. If Bitcoin has little or no value, people wouldn't be selling their cherished belongings for Bitcoin,  Solid developers wouldn't be   developing Bitcoin nor building applications on it,  Miners wouldn't be mining and holding Bitcoin.
The society never really improved with the invention of paper money despite what the elites and their researchers would want us to believe.  People had decentralized money system back then, ate well, were never greedy, never stole, had lots of lands/domestic animals, lived longer life, were happier ..
They only difference between the old days and now is the improvement in technologies People erroneously believe that access to better technologies is equals wealth.

It can make the corruption more easy so it is not the best option to avoid corruption on any country and also the people are involving in corruption has the power to change the system so don't expect them to make changes.

The the money is always based on the system that we are going to live in a good life so if it was normally in our society there is no problem with that but the political situation also made up the difficult is for the people to get involved in it that's why the value of money is going under the control of Political situation also.

I agree you are all the statement the money is in this situation are difficult to young by everyone but some are the people who are in this situation to be had some hours they can easily access everything but the people who are instantly will not do everything like they want to do in their basic life let's wait in to be political in this time.

Its always been part of human nature to be greedy when it comes to money but some people already comes to a point where they do already praise money too much.
Making things just to earn even on illegal ways wouldn't really matter as long they took advantage compare or among other people. Money is indeed political ever since.

For leaders of a country the policy regarding the financial sector will be calculated in terms of politics, because it does not want to create an unstable society because of an incorrect analysis of existing purchasing power.
Therefore financial policy is very sensitive and needs to be careful in its implementation so that political stability is maintained, because the wheels of development can be maintained if security is stable.

After the recent economic crisis that started in 2008 with the fall of Lehman Brothers I understood that money is a tool for politicians.
They use it in order to cover their own bad political decisions and manipulate the crowd's opinion. They don't care about the cases that they create with regulations and other decisions that affect the society.

This is the reason why fiat is a scam and why this bubble is going to blow in the next years with a more disastrous crisis than the latest one.

Most of the crypto currencies were not completely traceable,so if someone can find the address then we can traceout the money he is holding in illegal way but it will be harder to prove it.But when we have decentralization on payments everywhere then there is no need to bribe anyone because we can find transperency which has no way for people to cheat the system.

Ever since money is a political because many people are greedy it comes to money that's true right? Even you don't want but it comes to money people change. Like in cryptocurrency many are greedy even they don't want to happen but it happen because of money they will get.

Money has always been and always will be connected with politics. As well as banks are always connected with governments. But maybe the worst thing is that everyone seams to get used to that. Crisis appear in regular cycles, obviously they can't be avoided anymore and the only question is how heavy they will strike. That is why cryptocurrencies need to offer some kind of alternative and solution.

You are right, because people will always find ways to do things that can keep them profitable even though it is illegal, in my opinion the repair is not the financial system itself, but the mental revolution of humans, we are greedy thats the fact..

There is famous quote from Red Revolution 1917 time
I think Trocki told that or maybe Dzierzynski
Money in hands of our enemy can be powerful weapon
Money in hands of our own people is powerful enemy
I think see that is kind of true in our modern world
Money distribution and  creating of money in form of new money what is debt
Big financial institution controlling the world creating new debt money.Money and politic
All that benefit big corporation companies
Now we kind of people money what is bitcoin and his incredible story
And we all see what regulatory  problems bitcoin is experiencing

greedy makes people impose their wishes. so that those who can take advantage of the greediness of others will benefit. I think technical is an approach from the psychology of the average person, so that such indicators and references to open transactions. and politics that affect market mobility because they can control psychology

Is it possible to stop people from telling half truths all the time?

Everyone is quick to say that the dollar depreciated like 99% during the last 100 years but why are they so forgetful to add that it is not just the dollar that lost value but also salaries and wages that rose proportionately, while the real purchasing power of people today is incomparable to what it had been 100 years ago?

The nominal value of the dollar (and how much it can buy) is irrelevant since it doesn't mean anything on its own without considering how much people can buy with their income. You can add a couple of zeros or subtract as many but as long as incomes change proportionately, it is completely inconsequential

With blockchain technology into implementation on the governance of a country each and every activity happening will be transparent. This will make the system more effective and let the politicians away from corruption which is the major reason for the lacking of development happening in a country.

It really is this simple: put a $100 bill on the table, and leave it for 100 years.  How much purchasing power is left?  And compare that to gold or Bitcoin.  This is the store of value of a money, period.

Now if you want to argue the average person doesn't get hurt by this inflation, that's a completely different issue.  First of all, you shouldn't store your savings in dollar cash.  (Sure, your current income will keep going up, but what about the income of the past that you sweated equally for and saved away?)

If you want to argue that you can get better returns by investing in stocks, bonds and bank deposits...  Fine, but, again, we're talking about the store of value of money, not stock in a company, and I don't think you want to get into how savers are forced by this money system to take risks and help prop up the system (which is where this discussion would lead to.)

You want to argue this entire system of money is beneficial?  What you can point to is that material wealth has increased greatly overall.  What I can point to is that this turbo-charging of growth is artificial, ie not driven by market forces but by central planning at the core monetary and financial levels of the system, by pumping money and debt into the system during the boom phase of the cycle.

The fruits of this unnatural growth is time poverty leading to all kinds of unhappiness, addiction and mental illness.  And this is among the lucky.  The unluckiest of the world get their family members and homes blown up by bombs because the system incentivizes the elites of the dominant imperial countries to use wars and 'regime change' to force other countries to support the system, directly or indirectly.

The state-bank alliance is the disease of this world.

You won't live for 100 years, end of story. Well, in fact you may, but then in the end of this timeframe, the purchasing power of the 100 dollar bill will be your least concern as I come to think. And technically, you would be proved wrong if you were to actually put that bill on the table 100 years ago as it would acquire quite a lot of numismatic value by now, so in the end, your purchasing power would have actually increased multifold (provided you would still care, of course)

And it is not given that Bitcoin will still be around in just 10 years from now on


Fiat money is not a long-term store of value. If it were, it would not be good as a currency. In this manner, your whole point becomes kinda truism (read, you should spend it, not save)


Technically, you are talking about the store of value of fiat money. This is a subtle distinction (as not all monies are born equal), but once made, there is not much left for debate (see above)


Money, and fiat money in particular, is a tool and how it is used and to what end depends on who is using it and what their goals are. In other words, don't shoot the messenger


Well, you can't actually expect people to be any different. As they say, charity begins at home (just in case, Bitcoin is no exception to this rule of thumb)

Here is the actual function of bitcoin, which is to fight the politicians' elite against the currency or the transaction system. The freedom to trade bitcoin is able to fight what they want. politics cannot be separated from money because political activities require money that is not small with that they twist money to be used as their political tools. Of course, we don't want to be colonized by these elite people. Therefore, as a person who wants economic freedom, bitcoin is one way to fight it and restore the glory of an asset of all money that is now even let down by everyone.

There were very few number of politicians that do service to the citizens while majority of the politicians are corrupt and used to dump cash. This cash never gets useful for any of the mankind, and to overcome these corrupt hands the transparency is a must. This is possible through bitcoin as well other cryptocurrencies. Truly money is politics, but due to the exception that is found in every government the people live.

I agree with you, indeed everything is connected to each other. for example, the rise and fall of money prices is also certain because politics and banks have a definite problem directly with the government. I really expect cryptocurrency to make it not impact each other and those who have virtual money make it easier to use it.

The bottom line is, fiat money is a terrible store of value over the long term.  End of story (as you say.)

When you have to claim store-of-value by using numismatics, it's time to say the system is broke.


This entire argument assumes that the powers who run the system have our best interest at heart and have been correct to force people to spend or take risks with their savings.  This is the true face of central planning.  The final results of central planning are theft, deception, and murder.


'Fiat' money, by definition, is controlled by the political and financial elites (issued 'by fiat.')  As soon as that power is concentrated, the incentives for the elites make sure that theft, deception and murder will happen.


True, the only way for real change to happen is that we realize 'you can't expect people to be any different,' and take the power of money away from the elites.  (What role Bitcoin plays in this is actually not very important.)

The point of Bitcoin is that is taken away from the hands of politicians and financial institutions so they can't destroy it anymore when they see fit, as it has always been done to the fiat.

Separating money from state, would be an apt description. Precisely because its political, we came with this technical solution, already knowing that it would be under attack by politicians who get in panic of a money they can no longer be "controlled". That is until the newer generations more open to crypto end replacing the old.

That's likely the only point that I agree with

However, that is not my point at all. If we take the power of (creating) money away from the elites, we should offer something else instead, right? And that's the crux of the matter (and point of discord). While credit money (I'm specifically using this term to avoid using fiat as in your eyes it is synonymous with centralization) is made bad by the powers that be ("the elites") by debasing it via excessive money printing (like QE's), Bitcoin is simply not suitable for the purpose credit money plays in the economy. I mean money as a currency, not as a store of value

From the very beginning and until today, money has been and will be a political tool. The release of money has always been the privileges of the state, the ruling elite. Therefore, fake money has always been considered one of the most serious crimes and often punished with the death penalty. The release of other, private money in the state was prohibited. That is why states are set to the emergence of cryptocurrency, if not with hostility, then with suspicion. Therefore, the cryptocurrency is very slowly legalized by the states.

would be interesting to see data-correlations with politics/bitcoin price

What would you even be able to give bankers back in exchange for "reclaiming" the monetary supply? Controlling the money of a nation is one of the primary means of controlling the entirety of the nation, and it might as well be the biggest and most-entrenched out of the other methods. There's nothing that can be offered in exchange aside from what would amount to literally giving them the country and then some.

Bitcoin is a great store of wealth and an excellent means of taking your money out of the economy as a whole, which in and of itself can be very important, but you're right when you say that Bitcoin can't fulfill the same purposes fiat does. You just have to find a way to play the game without relying on fiat and "beat the system", I guess.

Well, the world had been running on the gold standard for many millenia (this is not to say that we should get back to it), so we can't in fact promise the bankers too much (let alone give them back the whole world). Especially when we are going to strip them off of their money printing monopoly (or rather arbitrariness of it)


Actually I don't disagree with this view

But when when you start (or stop) to think of it, you inevitably catch yourself thinking about some form of centralization. For example, we want a cryptocurrency that would change the supply of coins which would make the economy function without a lot of friction under the current conditions, and then you somehow come to think about a sort of Gosplan (the agency responsible for central economic planning under the Soviets)

I would agree this maybe the crux of the matter.

The trouble with your argument is, who are WE?  As in 'WE should offer something else.'  Of course, in the eyes of the elites, 'WE' means them -- ie what is in their best interest, in reality.

Precisely what form money/currency will take, and whether any scheme will be sufficiently useful for the economy, is not for you or me or anyone to decide.  The free market should.  History has shown that state-free money works very well, thank you very much, as under the Italian Renaissance and the Scottish Enlightenment (and indeed today in a simulated sense in small but advanced economies,) without the elites looking over our shoulders, nervously worrying about doing the very best for the public good.

If there's an economic need for it, the market will come up with credit money.  The state-managed credit money has been a disaster of theft, deception, and murder, over the centuries.

Ultimately, money is religion.  It is an objective social good (because it avoids bartering,) but its value is also faith based, no matter how you do it.  What we need is a separation of church and state.  Let people congregate around whatever they believe in, and leave them alone.

There's no trouble

If we are going to take the power of printing money from the elites, we simply cannot be them, right? To get a perspective, think of "us" as a god of economics whose purpose is to facilitate the economic growth and development by means available to humans (i.e. without godly intervention). Simply put, it is not "us" what matters here but rather a purpose or goal to be achieved which is of primary importance in this concern


There is no agreement on this, either

The examples you brought forth (like the Italian Renaissance) are too far away (in terms of both time and economic development) to make any definitive conclusion regarding this matter. In fact, it is not even decided yet whether the state-free money in particular and laissez-faire economy in general are actually sustainable in the long run. In other words, some government intervention in the monetary matters may be required after all (see below)


It had been tested and it didn't work out. I refer to the so-called free banking era in the US (somewhere between 1830 and 1860) when banks were free to create as much credit money as they wanted. It didn't end well, mildly speaking

Money has always been a tool of politics first, and then the economy. So the invited elite of society always went into politics primarily in order to strengthen their economic, that is, financial position. On the whole, the issue of issuing money has always been under the exclusive jurisdiction of the state. Who controlled the issue of issuing money, he had real political power. Therefore, one should not be surprised if states continue to tighten the rules for cryptocurrency circulation and try to control it.

Most of the political motives involves money and that is what most politicians want. Some might be on the side of making their constitutes comfortable but mostly on politics is corrupt so I don't mind generalizing those officials.

I agree, starting from our entry into politics, we need a lot of money, and when we become politicians, all the policy actions that we make, will affect the nation's economic fundamentals, and technical tools are just a tool to facilitate us in reading the market

Well written post this article change the perception of money in terms of news events happening in day to day social-political events

I think that you are a bit out of topic in regards of your tiittle. The elite is in control of the money, this is nothing new. This is just plain trivial, elite is elite because they have money, they also have power. US is one of the countries where this is very clear because of the clear loby.

Can you explain more, what do you mean by

?

How this is connected to power of money and politics in your opinion ?

Money in every state is an integral part of this state. Given the fact that the state is the political attitude of society, its money is always part of the policy of this state. Counterfeiting state money has always been considered a serious political crime and only the state always determines the rules for the circulation of any money on its territory. Therefore, although money works in the economy, it is always part of the politics of any state.

What about Euro 💶? EUR cannot be regulated by single states. It's used by 19 EU countries plus some others like Monaco, Andorra. And they can't determine the rules for their own currency. However politics still plays vital role regarding supply, monetary policy and so on.

The people who need money, I know they’re being manipulated, I wonder why modernize human being need money so badly when their ancestors could just survive without a single USD, and for so many thousands years, and I’m seeing millions blaming can’t survive without money in the public, they’re so foolish.

What are you talking about? People could survive without USD but they had some other forms of money like gold, silver and copper coins. Probably the most well known were Talents, like the Homeric Talent known in ancient Greece. Sure, human beings could live without money... in the stone age. Do you want to go back to that?

I hate to say this, but try make an argument with any women, they’ll always prioritise money to anything else, money is everything they could think of, and they can tell you how hard they would be without money, they can’t buy all the necessities for their everyday needs, of course I bet to differ, but I can’t seem to win them in these debate, they’re basically willing to do everything just to make money, bend the rules or betraying anyone. Going back to Stone Age? I think it isn’t too bad, people has much lower lifespan and they will surely spend their time more wisely, and wouldn’t have aging population and debt and medical care for the aging retiree, btw I think many people decide to migrate to other less developed countries, they might know it much earlier, that’s also why they move to new countries and revoke their nationalites.

I could try but it’s kinda difficult, not impossible through, time didn’t really change the people, it change the technology, and the technology create a new type of wants and needs, a phone was created, we used to want it, I think it slowly become a mixture of want and need, and some technology get obsoleted too, fax machine, cassette vhd tape, but hey, they all used to be a needs too in the past, but it all changed, is it the money too will experience the same cycle of behavioural change from want to need to want to finally obsolete? Idk, but I always try to live without money, especially after going through all the chaos, the inflation, the rising cost of living, moving money from cash to new form of store of value seem to be the trend, and yes, keep moving the money, that’s sound stupid but if we don’t keep up with the trend, it would be the same as holding a bag full of garbage, loss aversion could be the most scary nightmare to most people, they quickly become over panic overnight, but it didn’t work the same for winning, people will just chill.

Yes, that is an ancient era that is far from the modern era like today, now money is everything even though many people say money is not everything, but in reality in this era we cannot do anything without money, but if we have excellent skills so money is easy to get. But when viewed from a political standpoint, money is indeed included and I don't worry much about it because it's just a government game that not many people are interested in politics.

Money is political we can say that it is true,  if we talk about in the other sense it is also called dark money; refers to fund is donating to non profit organization. .
According to me,  political money is not a technical money.

This is the reason why they want money to be part of their decisions.
Politicians would always try to protect money - fiat currencies - and every other decision that is related to it. This is what makes them to have a job, otherwise their decisions would be senseless.

Money is a tool for managing the life of an individual and society as a whole. Money is a document that gives the right to receive any life goods and property. It is always near the person. We all depend on it, and first of all, now, money (especially huge sums) is a political tool. Unfortunately, today the winners are known beforehand -- win those, who initially have much.

Not only this but the things that get into the way of government they generally kill it , government is corrupted to the core and once they saw bitcoins taking over , people having some freedom , people moving from the traditional investments to the bitcoins , they started shutting it down and what's more , they are now thinking of getting out their own digital currency and trust me this is whole so sick when you think about it , they are literally forcing people in their own make digital currency .

 Politics and the big bankers are what controls the decisions , long gone are the days when we used to study in civics that the government is to the people , for the people and by the people

Tell me one governmental body that we can be proud of and take as an example in the present time.

They got rewards for their brave decision but be glad that you are here now still we are in early days,make your count increases now surely you can be one of the rich person if everyone have bitcoin in this world because 7billion people : 21 million bitcoin will speaks a lot even if you are holding in digits.

Money is always where politics is and vice versa. Money is very strong and persuasive tool opening all door, it can buy you power and influence and there is no use in denying it. Also, many people enter politics just because of money, only having in mind material aspect and not greater good.
Since cryptocurrencies are money too in very wide sense or at least have certain value that could be turn into real money no wonder they become bigger and bigger issues for global society

I tend to disagree with this view

If anything, it is politicians who determine the economic policy of a country and ultimately its fate, not economists. Politics has the upper hand in the economic matters, and to prove that is in fact pretty easy. Most wars turn out an economic disaster for the belligerent countries (it has been so for millenia), while the questions of peace and war are in the hands of a few people who may not have a damn clue about economics and how the economy works. In other words, it remains to be seen whether political decisions are actually aimed at strengthening the economic conditions of a country as it may well be to the contrary

That money is a political and not a technical problem is a truism.
It would be rather worth trying to understand how these political decisions can be foreseen and directed to our advantage, otherwise the discussion is the usual complaint about the corruption and incompetence of the rulers.

because of money, people can do anything regardless of the fate of others. especially in politics, politicians seem to be inhumane on behalf of the people. government policies can be changed with money, let alone cryptocurrency, they oppose it because they are afraid of losing control with a decentralized system

Who controls the money,  controls the world too. Politicians are the ones who control the laws, with laws they control supply, demand and distribution of money. When politicians don't serve the people, when they just want to get rich with the help of their  job, we get unhealthy society, where criminal and corruption are behind every corner. It's hard to bget out from that situation, transition can last for years. In world there are more bad governments then good ones, and that's the problem, huge problem, I don't know when we going to solve that problem, but I hope it will be soon and that blockchain can help us in that.

Money has always been a significant part of the politics of every state. The one who controlled the printing and circulation of money within the state always had actual power. Therefore, counterfeiting money in any state was considered one of the most serious crimes. It is due to the fact that it is very difficult for governments to control cryptocurrency, it will always be not friendly and wary of it.

I totally agree with your comments. Money is an asset that can be exchanged with any service or commodity, but fiat money also has a historical and political implications. Money values in some countries are different because they have different economies and politics. If bitcoin is a common currency, this is like causing great damage to the economies of major countries.
So I always support fiat money that exists in parallel with cryptocurrency.

This is where the problem arises for bitcoin, as money is completely political they are not able to keep the technical money under their control. With bitcoin too there is political play, but these were very low compared to what the political play takes place with the fiat currencies.

Different countries have different economic policies, different practices in printing of money. We cannot say the same takes place perfectly. When it comes to bitcoin government can't make any modification, which makes it tough and this is the prime reason for few countries to oppose bitcoin usage.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Care to explain in greater detail?


Bitcoin is indeed no less political

Just recall all the bickering, scheming and infighting around activating SegWit in 2017 which ultimately led to a Bitcoin fork into, well, just Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. Wasn't that political or was it less political than with "regular" money? To me, things followed the regular pattern revealed in such matters

Moreover, if Bitcoin expands, it will be even more politically colored as is the case with anything having some value and concerning interests of different groups of people. Conceptually, it is not about the thing itself (Bitcoin or otherwise) but rather about the people and their interests involved


Rest assured they will find a way to overcome this obstacle (if it becomes worth it)

I always doubt that politics will affect prices ,  For example, when we hear statements by presidents of countries ; then change direct in prices  
so ,there is relation between money and politic

The direction of these statements is more important, perhaps not important enough to affect the economy. But considered that the economy is in every sphere, most important decisions do not pass without affecting it.
Also I found an article on this topic. If you are interested, I suggest you check : https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/11298/concepts/the-relationship-between-economics-and-politics/

a statement from an important person will affect the economy indirectly. thank you for providing references that discuss the economy because it is very important in adding insight.

Political for me is a money making machine for those politician who are corrupt. They are abusing their position to take advantage of anything
for their own benefits only. Because if you have a lot of money for them you are powerful and you have the power of influence to distort a thing you want it to do. But you must read this link which I agreed the most  https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/11298/concepts/the-relationship-between-economics-and-politics/

Fiat money is centralized, so I think every important statement from influential people will influence price movements. for example in forex, there is a news site namely forexfactory.com, where there is a news schedule that will occur, usually news in red will have a strong influence on price movements

I have always believed the current monetary policy in our society is not a reflection of how nature ought to work, but man-made manipulation to keep many always chasing money and make them to be slave for life, while just about 10-20% in every society just control the nation's economy. The banks just print money and loan it ought causing inflation, making the poor poorer.

Very much agree.There is famous quote from time of October revolution in Russia 1917
Money in hands of our enemy is dangerous weapon .Money in hands of our own people is dangerous enemy
Dollar dominance begin after WW2 .Now that dollar dominance is in danger.USA will do everything possible to keep dollar dominance.Personally i think that all that tariffs war is currency war .USA officials are even saying that dollar is his main weapon .Not US Navy not Air Force but dollar

The goods price is getting higher but the salary will still the same, that is really happening in many countries, I don't know if it is natural or just the government are just printing money for their own good. And I think because of that sooner or later will fully adopt the cryptocurrency. Because cryptocurrency is the escape for government's manipulation.

Money is just a tool of economical politics. It is referred to both as politics and economics are interdependent systems in domestic and international relations. Both areas are so important for the normal functioning and development of countries that the crisis in one leads to negative consequences in the second. And vice versa, progress, and growth have a beneficial effect on the processes taking place in another system.

Money is such a complex domain that not only cannot be explained technically, but even political vision alone is not enough: in large part we go into philosophy, and sometimes speaking of money we end up in metaphysics.

I don't think money is entirely political. It started off as a technical solution - an abstraction of value from things themselves to things (coins) that represent value, all based on an understanding that everyone would agree that the coins represented a certain amount of value. Of course this is simplifying it, because coins were made of silver etc that already had an agreed value, but I think the basic point holds.

I would say that it became political because control and manipulation of value is a way to control and manipulate power. The people in charge always try to control society and organise it in their own favour, it's just easier to do this with money than it is without that abstraction of value.



This sort of conclusion by "experts" drives me crazy! Crypto offers far more than being a store-of-value, it's not merely a further abstraction of metal coins into an intangible equivalent - that's already there with bank accounts, bank cards etc. To say crypto is simply a store of value without physical form is nonsense. Crypto offers far far more, not just the immutable record, not just speed, not just security... it goes on and on, what about smart contracts for example?

Why not, money is political and not technical there, if you have much money you can make some altcoin price pump suddendly without have to learn about technical or chart, you can make much profit without have to understand about chart at support to buy or to sell because happen with some altcoin in exchange.

Money is considered as medium in anything. It might be acquired by technical analysis. Some from the political views. As a medium of doing transaction it's not necessarily by political only. Some people use money and don't give a damn in political issues. It's too wide to be just in political area.

Money is political and not have technical, if you have big power you can make much money because you have everything what do you want to do, you can manage cryptocurrency if you have control with political when you have banned or legal bitcoin and altcoin to make price higher, maybe you can remember with John McAffe could make some coin price pump.

Could those people actually end up having economic benefits from wars? Direct of indirect benefits?
Centralization of power and situation where economic operators are dependent on government to operate creates situations of monopolies, corruption, etc... 

This is certainly possible

Ultimately, it all depends on how successful these people are at warfare and ensuing dominion (remember, the winner takes it all, the loser's standing small). The most conspicuous example of this kind is the Roman Empire (first Republic, or how it was called before it became an empire). It led quite a number of successful wars through which it expanded its territory manifold and promoted economic wellbeing of its citizens

And when it finally collapsed, it was mostly due to internal corruption and discord, not wars of conquest as such. As a matter of fact, the Roman Empire even began to shrink near the end of its rule as it was no longer able to protect its lengthy borders due to continual economic and political failure of the state (e.g. Romans withdrew from Britain in the late 4th century about a hundred years prior to the fall of Rome herself)


Well, technically, centralization of power doesn't necessarily mean centralization of economy through monopolies, etc. Although such centralization definitely creates certain incentives, you may still have a kind of monarchy with a properly decentralized economy

Banks are under the Government, the government is the one who make the call on what to do about the fiat that is being printed when it is needed. For me money is entirely political because they are the ones who is controlling it, they are using the banks to make it compact and well organized while citizens are using it on their everyday lives that keeps the economy moving, just my opinion, you don't have to believe it.

Its more then your opinion, banks need to follow the rules, rules set by government. Every country is different, in some countries banks have more power, in others less, point is that they have a deal with government. For example interest rates are different everywhere, in some countries citizens are protected until some level, in others banks can have power to do what they like, of course with the deal with government.
Money is political, and banks are politicized. In my country the Governor of the National Bank is a politician. That speaks for itself.

that's a reality that recently a few people realize, maybe there will be bad thoughts about it
for example they actually don't make decisions according to conscience and the impact caused but money is a priority

What are your thoughts on Financial Capitalism vs Industrial Capitalism?
In in those different approach the use of money and the impact of Crypto.

How smart you are without money you can manage anything and you are not have power in political, by money you can doing what do you want and you have power full and do not need technical if you have money, like in cryptocurrency you can make price higher if you have much money without have skill for technical.

Can't argue with that, but for example the U.S. dollar has been off the gold standard for decades.  And I would point out that wages have been increasing for at least as long as we've been off the gold standard.  The inflation therefore hasn't been nearly as bad as some would suggest.

On the other hand I fear for future generations if the money printing continues unabated.  This kind of thing cannot go on indefinitely, and the U.S. cannot maintain its dominancy if the federal reserve keeps churning out the money.  They're extremely short sighted and I have a feeling they just don't care about future generations having to clean up their economic mess.

Christ this country is fucked.  (United States, that is).

That has been the case because the dollar is the world reserve currency. It gave the Fed a free ticket to print as much as it wants. Can this be sustained with China and Russia moving away from the existing status quo? If this is not sustained inflation will go up the roof in most developed countries and gold and bitcoin will become the safe heaven to store your money. One can be confiscated the other not. 

We need a proper perspective on the situation

For example, the US may be fucked but it doesn't matter if the rest of the world is even more fucked up. So if the elites (world government, aliens, etc) keep things this way, the US is essentially okay. Regarding excessive money printing, it doesn't in the least affect the future generations, and for two good reasons

First, whatever insane amount of money gets printed, it is almost instantly balanced out by prices. Rising prices are a sort of knee-jerk reaction which resets the balance at a new level. And second, a new generation can just reset the currency itself (and start printing new money like never before)

This really boils down to the imperial system.  The system makes sure that all countries are financially more unstable than the current imperial seat (which is the US today.)  Any government that doesn't implement policies that support this financial hierarchy (or the imperial command structure required to maintain it) is subject to negative propaganda, economic or financial destabilization, or regime change by coup, assassination, up to invasion.  (This hierarchy ensures that capital will flow up, and pain will flow down, thus stabilizing the system from the bad effects of money printing by the imperial elites.)

Perhaps the 'mildest' case of this imperialism in action was forcing Western Europe to inflate under the Plaza-Louvre accords of the 1980s in order to support an orderly deflation of the dollar bubble of the US's own making.  If the Europeans hadn't complied, proposed US protectionist policies would have devastated their exports, their economies, and the political futures of their leaders.

Among the bloodier cases of imperialist action must be sending money and arms to 'rebels' in Syria in 2011 to overthrow 'dictator' Assad (who had dared defy the empire,) ending up with hundreds of thousands of deaths in the civil war that followed.  We also have to mention the 1953 CIA-operated coup that overthrew the democratically elected prime minister of Iran and restored the Shah to power who became legendary for using torture and killing to protect his regime before he was popularly booted from power in 1979.  Granted, the Shah was OUR dictator.  See the expose by a US deep-state insider, 'Confessions of An Economic Hit Man,' for more of the same, over the mid-to-late 20th century.


This view is problematic if you look at the last 30 years in the West.  The printed money only went to the lucky and the rich, so the general average inflation has been mild.  Crazy money printing and generalized reset by inflation are not at all what the Western elites want as a first choice, since it gives a bad rep to the money their print.  But it might be a last resort, right before the angry mobs are about to physically take the power from them.

Because of the imperial structure mentioned above, this last scenario has seldom, if ever, occurred in countries at the top of the system.

I don't think you can complete divorce money as political vs the techincal in that the change in how democracy and incumbents get $$$ now below.

That is the issue. As an aside to the above, problem-solving at the congressional level is now dead. Say both sides agree to fix a problem. In the past, the problem is

agreed upon (hard to do now) but say you get past that point. Say you want to improve the social safety net in these hard times. The right wants private the left wants

public. Both don't trust others only one or the other positions. In the past, you would work around this by checks and balances on both a public/private solution that both

parties could agree with. Now with unlimited money in politics and this allows both sides to break on whatever policy of their party with impunity. Why should I as a

Does the legislator do the above? No votes on 600-800 bills in the Senate that I have to show a position on that might put me at odds with my outside donors and my


constituants..no vote no responsibility as a representative..ie easy election. Indeed the harder I push and stick to my position, however extreme it may be in either a right

or left viewpoint..the more $$$ I will get from out-of-state donors for such and have even MORE autonomy from my own party, whichever it may be. So no incentive to

have a position say in the Senate as a moderate of either party (no vote allowed) and it is all stacked to gridlock. So from an exchange of ideas point of view above..this is

not a good trend to get anything done, if your party, whoever it is, can't herd their own cats and now has no incentive to be bi-partisan if it will get you kicked out of your

party at the primary.

So from a technical view of how consensus and such is supposed to work in the USA and the legislatures...etc. This can become an issue for BTC/Crypto in that

powers that be of banking/govt/large corporations/etc will try to bend blockchain and political regulations and laws to a more 'centralized' view than 'decentralized' IMHO.

So the technical aspects of decentralized Bitcoin may be a thread in the idea that 'money is political' not for the money reason, like in most politics and above, but

also in the actual decentralized use of money (BTC) that is beyond the reach of such corruption and manipulation ..this is aside and above the above usual

political $$$ in money and how consensus does not rule anymore. So can you convince both sides of the political realm that Bitcoin is a store of value and not as

a threat to one camp or the other? Time will tell I guess. :( But not cut and dried. Also, the more BTC in its decentralized nature can just take off and do its own

thing and not linked to bonds/stocks/currencies or gov't policies like traditional money and along with the rest of the above...there will be more FUD on the horizon the

The faster we get ATH's the more FOMO and of course the knee-jerk reaction by traditional centers of money and power above to FUD and slow down adoption. So longer

Bitcoin/Crypto exists and the more decentralized it is the more technical governments will try to regulate and nit-pick IMHO. So it goes. :(

Brad

money is both a political and a technical issue. the two are related together. I think one cannot be without the other.

is it true that money is a political tool and the goal of political victory? whereas the purpose of creating money is to make transactions easier for humans.
but I agree on that. from ancient times money was used to finance war, the conversion of European money into dollars, and now there is the slogan "time is money". money has changed its function and purpose

I think Dr. Steven Englander's point is correct, money is political and it should not be replaced by Bitcoin or any other asset class.

Not only does fiat money represent the value of each nation, but it also represents political power in countries. If fiat money were meaningless, then there would be no differentiation between currencies across countries. All have its reasons.

Although Bitcoin has the ability to reduce inflation, it is very volatile, which is also one of the factors that makes it impossible to be a universal currency. We are talking about the macro and don't bring the microscopic factors for comparison. ;)

Well, there is 'always' going to be some kinda push back from 'centralized' entiities with something as decentralized as Bitcoin. Indeed, I 'foresee' more than a 'bit' of

backlash against Litecoin (LTC) if and when they ever get Mimblewimble

https://www.coindesk.com/litecoin-gets-bullish-speculation-at-last-as-upgrade-approaches (https://www.coindesk.com/litecoin-gets-bullish-speculation-at-last-as-upgrade-approaches)

which says, I quote:

"The upgrade will put in effect a “privacy protocol” known as Mimblewimble, which is supposed to help shield the identities of holders of senders and recipients of litecoin tokens while also improving the network’s ability to scale to handle more transactions."

Because the Founder Charlie Lee, is 'known' and the simple act of 'breaking' with Bitcoin Core Developers that decided in the past to NOT add Mimblewimble protocol, well,

that seems ripe for regulation by a centralized govt to ban the protocol. Not saying it will happen, but with Litecoin (LTC) past historical path of following Bitcoin Core and

suddenly doing this, it 'might' be enough for regulators to 'single this out' and slap it down. Indeed the USA government is currently this little bit below includes Bitcoin

Lightning Network.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/the-irs-offers-a-625-000-bounty-to-anyone-who-can-break-monero-and-lightning (https://cointelegraph.com/news/the-irs-offers-a-625-000-bounty-to-anyone-who-can-break-monero-and-lightning)

So there ya have it, govt and centralized wealth and power HATE decentralized crypto and/or power...it seems they are drawing the line or trying to inch by inch

stopping what they see as decentralized anonymity with decentralized crypto in these cases.

Which I find hilarious, because a person can take any crypto and convert to cash first and then use such anonymously instead.

So it goes, first comes ATH then comes FOMO then come panic by centralized power/wealth and influence or FUD

rinse/wash/repeat

Brad

I agree with you because is obvious that politics is money because no activity concerning politics that does not required money that is while politician's spend what ever they have in order to occupy a political position with any dimension or strategies to assume office and when them do no one can control them because them use money to buy political position, I know that pattern of politician across the countries is one and it can't change.

No! Money is really use as a means of exchange, this is the main purpose of ot. However, some people misuse it. Oh well, that's a no brainer tho. Of course if you have a lot of money, are considered wealthy, wealthy are more prioritized than everyone. You can buy anything, be popular and be influential — you can get and manipulate everything. So I think much better to say "Money is Power". It's sad to say folks but that's how our world run.

I'm just so disappointed for some rich people (I'm not talking in general because I still do believe that good hearted ones are still there) have the guts to carry a heavy conscience after degrading others as long as their interest is meet. Tsk, they can actually help in building a better world but they didn't.

Exactly! It already came from your own words, money represents political power of countries and for me it is not good. Do you really like the concept of superior countries over the inferior countries? Because for me I hate it that much. In nature, people wants to dominate. Thus, people on top tend to discriminate or take advantage of the people below them. This will result to unfairness and injustice. Maybe you are saying this because you are living in a rich country but try to out your feet on the less fortunate shoes. What if you belong on the other side? I'm pretty sure you will demand as well.

Everyone deserves a good quality of life. So even imposible, I wish that our world will have a universal currency because it might be the way for all of us, humans, to unite together and live in harmony :). (Who knows?)

Money is a political issue. There are so many politician that are hungry for money. They run for government post just to earn more money for themselves and not for the betterment of their people.

You have a good point though OP but money function will depend on the user. If it is politically motivated then it will be but the main purpose of money is for technicality where it function as a medium for exchange. Without money or fiat currency, the exchange could not determine the efficient value of exchange. Like the old system which has been revive lately here in our place due to pandemic the barter system. Barter system is not an effective form of exchange because some things might be undervalued during the exchange.

Politicians cannot use digital currency. It is not possible to be governed by the government and politics of the country. Politics is now a tool for profit. For this, businessmen are leaning towards business as well as politics real politicians are not getting a chance. Although the largest institution of democracy is a political party, it lacks the most democracy. The world is advancing in terms of technology due to which the demand for crypto is increasing and traders are taking advantage of the use of digital currency. Politicians manage everything through money.

False, they cannot use financial instruments that they cannot fully manage. The fiat market is completely controlled (taking into account the "cashless" financial market), which means that this process can be controlled, which means it can be CONTROLLED. Management is power. Unmanaged financial technology = loss of power, it's simple

To your point above, you don't take it far enough. Like your title: Re: Money Is Political, Not Technical. The real catch is not how you frame the question, to me,

it is more, money the 'mechanism' is not politics, it is power!

In other words, money is a means to an end to gain power. By power I mean, having food, not hungry, cold, and you can expand by that point into

money for houses/cars/girls or whatever...it is not politics as an endpoint it is, however, you can get power as an endpoint that gives you more and more

of control of the pesky environment and universe that keeps trying to kill your ass. You don't eat you die, you have bad health and now medical you die, etc.

So, this is where 'politics' does come in...the tool to 'help' decentralize power and improve the status quo or to 'squash' centralize and keep the status quo.

You have a vested interest in the 'status quo' of wealth..you have wealth, maybe inherited wealth, you protect that wealth with connections to politics as a

means to protect the status quo....and keep your wealth, with cap gains taxes (lower for rich) tax rebates (like the 1.2 Trillion tax holiday under Trump Administration)

Then 'decentralized' BTC/Crypto comes around and messes up your centralized setup above...all nice and cozy..so you then use politics as a 'lever' or blunt

baseball bat to make regulations and try to control it. Does not really work very well, being decentralized, worldwide and BTC/Crypto has real uses overseas with

dubious governments/backs/fraud/etc.

So again, the politics is to 'stifle' anything decentralized in the world vs centralized and controlled in the game of power. Labor Unions for example in the USA

are decentralized...so politics and laws used to 'stifle'. This last presidential election attempts to stymie that pesky decentralized election, etc.

This it will always be so...so IMHO your title did not go all the way to the end of the tree root of control. Re: Money Is Political, Not Technical

It should be maybe, again I know zip, IMHO Re: Money is Power, Politics is Technical, Decentralized BTC/Crypto is a status quo nightmare!

but again, perhaps all this is 'implied' ..just saying

Brad

Still, money in every state is more a political instrument than a financial one. Yes, it is up to the holder to decide what to do with a specific amount of cash or non-cash money. However, the state can establish other rules for their circulation and use, and the holder of the money will be forced to obey them. The state can decide to issue new money and replace old money at a rate that is disadvantageous for users. Therefore, it has always been assumed that the issue of money is a manifestation of state power.

I guess the political aspect is part of the reasons fiat is what it is today. If competent people are allowed to run/manage national currencies the way money should be managed, money will likely be fair for everyone. If money is allocated to the wrong areas, or used wrongly, there will always be consequences which affect everyone or most people depending on the money system.
This is why I think the right money system should be transparent, open, decentralized, immutable, rule-based, Merit-based, etc to prevent/discourage misuse.

No one doubts the fact that money is a means of exchange and a reliable or most suitable one at that. Its a known fact but then, not having it or a good means to secure it means trouble. That's where the political aspect of it comes in as, one who pulls the strings or controls the money in circulation controls the masses and that is, the government. its very simple. Just as some insects are attracted to the light, one who controls the lights position invariably controls the direction of movement for those insects. Same scenario applies to man as we often tend to follow money in all that we do, it becomes a major driving force. inflation or deflation of it (money) can mean a lot in the life's of the citizens and based on which constraint the governments wants to play out to suit their purpose, they just pull the strings and watch it play out. Puppet sh*t! We just have to grow more in wisdom to minimize damage.

It is true. I agree that money is politics. A rich elite who wants to be the ruler of the government will find it very easy with money. even with money, a person can bribe officials to preserve his business. money is a political game

An absolutely fair distribution of resources and benefits is a utopia. Unfortunately, but this is a fact! There will always be some bias in favor of "their groups". There will always be higher priority areas of support that may seem "illogical" or "unfair". For example, it makes no special sense for the state to create a financial paradise for the population, but it makes sense to support large companies that provide jobs, pay taxes, and develop the economy. This is pragmatism that underlies the development of the state. And the game of "philanthropy and equality" is populism and attempts at manipulation under the guise of supposedly good deeds

In 2020, no one does politics for service. Politics for money. Politicians get involved in money games with the people. They give birth to terrorists. Embezzles black money. Have you ever seen a politician spend his money for the development of technology? In fact, all the work such as aid, services, development, technology, politics is involved in the game of money.

everything is about money. why a kid named greta thunder get so much attention when she doesnt look like she has confidence in what shes saying. well its still because of money. one could tell conspiracy theory but the evidences are more than just coincidence.

money is everything. more money more power.

The funny thing is that the person who allocates resources probably thinks that the distribution is quite fair ;) It is impossible to please absolutely the entire population and any government helping one segment of the population you will have to face the discontent of other segments. And decentralization is not the most optimal assistant in optimal management in the economy, no matter how sympathetic we are to the ideas of decentralization and justice.

Absolutely agree ! There will always be subjectivity, intentional or not, as well as an absolutely reasoned bias towards a more useful subject, from the point of view of the state or large groups making strategic decisions. Well, you need to understand that there are not so many benefits, but there are a lot of people who want to get them, so there will not be enough of all the benefits, which are not very many, for all people of which there are many :)

 Honestly, since then until now there is a big controversy when money is really discussed, as well as in history, many people are victims and missing to get their goal to become one such like gold, despite, it is proven that you can create more things actually whatever you need, and hide anytime, and actually, it looks like power, in terms of politics you can use also fiat money for victory in short terms but above all the difference of technical work is for a long term period so it supposed to be good also.

What makes you think it can't? What prevents a politician as a separate unit/person or a politician as a set of governing bodies from using digital currencies for any kind of spendings  "dark" ones or legal ones? Nothing prevents you from participating in the creation of a digital version of the dollar and using it to drive away the laundering of budget money or to finance educational programs and the development of critical regions in a completely clean way.
Just the same, digital currencies in general and cryptocurrencies in particular give even more scope for corruption - due to the so-loved anonymity, crypto-mixers and other benefits of digitalization of money for which everyone is so fiercely advocating.

A ton of presence is the battle for endurance and pushing your own plan to additional your own hereditary genealogy. At any rate, that is the way it has worked for the whole of history and likely won't be changing for the remainder of it. There are some huge favorable circumstances to building an overabundance of food, cash, and so forth on the backs of others, and those should be really clear on the off chance that you think about the suggestions the excess would have.Its not a great deal to think about with regards to others when your own objective is the continuation of your own struggle and experience.

Thats actually true.
You can earn far better using your mind Politically instead of technically. Because this whole world is a kind of political dog fight. Everyone is trying to overcome another one. So some times technical mind can't works out properly in many situations.
So It's better to use your mind politically instead of technically when main motive is to earn a bag of cash.

I similarly agree with you. The emperor who has money instantly. He who has no money has nothing. Most of the people I glimpse who perform politics have more money and they have a bunch of money and they also pertain to politics in one way or another.

Great post, I concur with your point. Money, as well as each and everything, is presently running by the government and politicians. Whatever we're viewing in the media are pre-arranged by governmental and politicians. They have control and everything even gold, yet not with cryptographic forms of money. I believe that is the motivation behind why all the politicians are against digital currency since it's the main thing that government officials can not deal with.

What do you think politics and politicians are for? For the possession of power in the state. This is not surprising, because any state wants to have as much control over monetary policy as possible, and money is only a special case of this. And the battle will always be a serious one, because control of money is power, and no politician in his right mind will give up another lever of control.

Why do currencies in different countries have different values, and why the Bolivar as the Venezuelan currency is increasingly useless.
This is not all due to technical matters, but because of political issues. So depending on how the government takes political policies will
affect the value of the country's currency. That is why a country with a high rate of corruption must have a low currency value.
Because after all, money is controlled by the leading government.

Yes that's right. 

The economy is always secondary.  Efficiency is always secondary.  The primary is politics, that is, the struggle for power. 

If I am a manager, then my main task is to retain power.  Because if I lose my strength, I will lose everything.  One of the manager's tasks is to ensure the efficient functioning of the managed system. 

However, this task is secondary.  The main task is to maintain power and control. 

Politics is always primary. 

It is always necessary to start the study of economics with an answer to the question - who are the actors of economic processes?

The money of any state has to a large extent always been a political instrument. Therefore, governments tried not to let other people's money into their territory. In the USSR, for example, there was even criminal liability for the use of the dollar and another currency on the territory of the country as a means of payment. The issue of money and its use have always been in the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and its government. After all, this is actually the key to the economy of the state, and hence its security.

The article is very short and insightful. We are seeing the world with too much physical money printed by governments. The US already has currency-related agreements that benefit their nation, typically Petro Dollar.
Money no longer represents labor, goods, but becomes a tool for politicians to display their political power around the world.
We need a preeminent currency that blurs national boundaries so that its value can be affected fairly around the world. I found Bitcoin met the standard when it was decentralized.

     We really are trapoed in this type of society where societal standards matter and because of this, greed is never ending. Even when money hasn't been around yet, people have been already greedy and want much more for themselves. Too much I's instead of we's. There is no solution for something like this and this is something that one just has to live with and be smart about riding its waves. Because if you go against it, you will be the loser in the end. The only way this can change is for people to change in unison and not one by one. Only then can there be changes. But that is something that's very unlikely to happen. So a better realistic approach in my opinion is again, learn to live with what is already there and ride the tides intelligently. Not a very good approach for people who are strong willed or wants freedom from this system but it is the only way to survive along with the people you care about or rely on you. Morals and freedom nowadays don't amount to much. So be smart and choose wisely what your next moves will be.

Indeed, the world is trapped in a number of governments that rake advantage of positions or have politicians that are kapdogs by the elite along with the banks. But this is something that isn't new anymore. People have been abke to adjust with this fact already and have given lots of efforts just to stay afloat. The sad thing though is that there are people who cannot adjust because of various reasons that are and nit limited to; lack of knowledge, degree, capital or natural resources. The fact of the matter is that we can't do anything about thus unless everyone opens their eyes and actually try at least to break free from these chains that bind us to this unfair system made by the people on top or the elites. That's just that. There really is no other way.

I don’t think this has to be explained, but money was meant and created to civilize people and centralize the power/rights to someone that has to be in charge. This was to benefit the people who pursued becoming a leader in the past. Money doesn’t have any value before as it wasn’t back by anything with value. But with a proper way of extortion being backed-up by guns, people has to accept the so called^ fortune in exchange with their assets such as gold, oil and so on besides from it, other countries were persuaded to create theirs as well and the money war starts with that. This was the same set-up Janet Yellen was trying to point with Bitcoin. But if when you read history, this was well declared. It was the money who were created to be used for illicit transactions but still looks legal in the eyes of the public.

Same with alt coins, there were a lot of currencies offered to the public before, but only 15-20% of them made it and survived. Dollar is one of it and also the pounds as these are from powerful people with a lot of ammunitions on their base camps.

Money was created for a group fo people to show dominance to others, so politics is quite related to it, and in that I agree with your point.

It’s just a good thing because we at least are able to experience the freedom having decentralized currencies we enjoyed during the past years. But I hope that this time, people will win against the greedy leaders wanna be(s).

I trust the intelligence of the people today, boosted by the internet access which helped us to access almost all of the resources and information we need to know to win. Good luck to the new generation of people!

Politics is the art of the manipulation and why is money political in the currently circumstances? Because it's a great tool to manipulate the society. In essence money should be only a accessory to help us trading daily, without the need of exchanging goods for goods. But then it became a tool to trade not only goods, but to pay for others' opinions, support, *friendship* and endorsements.
Money became political because there are too many people selling themselves for money, so the most unscrupulous ones took advantage and started using money for this purpose, hiring mercenaries, forging alliances, everything based on money, because honor and truth are just subjective matters and have no value in this world.

This has already been happening for centuries, just changing only the scenery and forms. It is foolish to expect that governments and local elites will not use money through banks to fulfill their political goals and manage the economy, because the efficiency of the state mechanism is based on these principles. I fear that the absence of these" chains " will lead to chaos, anarchy and lawlessness. Of course, we must fight against lawlessness and arbitrariness in the state system, as well as improve the system of social elevators, but we must be realistic and understand that a capable state is necessary in the interests of all citizens.

Not just a good tool for manipulation, money in politics is also your bullets against other politician so you can keep up. Money is also a protection, if you have the money you can hire people that will protect you, not just physically protecting you but also your image. Another reason why I think money becomes political besides the people selling themselves for money is that we were thrown in this world that always ask for reciprocity in services.

There is no denying that money plays an important role in the political process. How could it not be, someone who was previously unpopular and did not have the capacity and credibility could easily get the power that was fought over by many people with just an object called money.
have a lot of money, any problem can be solved in terms of protection, attacks and so on. money can win in political matters, protection and attacks of any force.

Exactly, this has been the tale of adventures for a long time, that we will find treasures and we have it in our greedy DNA that we have to have more money than the other people and that we have to be influential because if not, we are just nothing. Money kind of makes some meaning in our life in this small blue dust in a vast universe, it makes us think that we are god.

Indeed, money ain't the only that is politics. Almost everthing we see within a certain country is full of politics, from the aid they give when there are natural disasters, the infrastractures they build and the media where we gather the news of the events happening each day. Fiat is clearly under the government's control and roughly everything that happens and changes they make on it is always for their benefit. I disagree that politics isn't an issue to the people most specially if you are living in a third world country.

"MONEY EQUALS POWER; POWER MAKES THE LAW; AND LAW MAKES GOVERNMENT"

It is all directly proportional, in regards to the main post, no matter how hard you try after you "WAKE UP" you can't change the fact and how things work.

Money Buys Hapiness (Whoever rejects this might want to give me those and it will make me happy  ;) ) And happiness is what we thrive, we can be content but we need money to survive, no matter where we go, money will still be there, so better to ride with the flow, or "Wake Up" and try to do something that others might perceive as nothing

It is through cryptocurrency and blockchain that I have being enlighten about the concept of money but as an individual there is nothing I can do about it but as members of the cryptocommunity we can effect change and liberate the masses from the financial darkness orchestrated by our politicians and the elite.

If anybody wants to do politics needs money without money how can do politics. man to man very political system if anyone wants to succeed on political sector need money at fast then need other anything so I agree this point there is a saying goes money is the second god of the world.